Perfect Day with Jessica Knappett - EP 49: Richard Bacon

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

TV bad boy Richard Bacon joins Jess on the podcast this week to tell us almost nothing about his perfect day. But boy, do we learn a lot about him - from being watched by the CIA, to being Woody Harrelson’s landlord. The pair get into all aspects of his life, including addiction, near death experiences, ADHD, parenthood and dodgy doctors. Like and subscribe for brand-new episodes every Thursday. Follow us on Instagram @perfectdaycast. A Keep It Light Media ProductionSales and general enquiries: [e-mail]  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Jessica Knappett and welcome to Perfect Day. This week I'm talking to broadcaster, format maker, TV bad boy, Richard Bacon. His words. Almost. You'll see. Look, the sound's a little bit erratic in parts. Much like the interviewee. By his own admission, Richard has ADHD and he moves around a lot. Sometimes he's off mic, sometimes he's on mic. We did what we could. Bear with us. But it's a great chat. We had a brilliantly candid convo. We talked about alcohol, drugs, his parents, near-death experiences, ADHD and I think something we can all relate to being Woody Harrelson's landlord. Plus we learn that when leaving for a holiday Richard books his Uber to the

airport before he packs his suitcase. Horrifying! So grab a cup of tea or a vodka martini and enjoy hearing very little about Richard Bacon's perfect day. Are you still based in LA? No, I was there for nine years. Are we on now? Yeah, we're on. Is that alright? Is this the podcast? Well, we could... That's hilarious. Why is that hilarious?

This is not like radio, is it? No, because I'm so used to... I'm welcome to... Yeah, we can do that if you want, but why? You don't need to, but it is so... It's slightly boring doing introductions, isn't it? And I guess you can do it when the guest is gone. Well, that's what we do. We do it afterwards.

I actually find it uncomfortable when people do an intro in front of you. I do. Because they have to, like, compress your career into a few sentences and I don't know, sometimes they'll pick some bits you like and some bits you don't. It's either too much or too little. And then your ego wants to rewrite it and say can I just write my career from my perspective and make it sound better than it is. Do you want to do your own intro, Richard?

Well, I don't know how I would. How would you do it? Where would you start? I interviewed a couple of people on stage at South by Southwest in Shoreditch two days ago, and they said, can you supply for the brochure or whatever some sentences about you? I didn't quite know how to describe myself. I'm a former broadcaster, and now I invent game shows shows and I've been in trouble quite a lot. That's it. That'll do.

Yes. It doesn't sound that exciting when you say it out loud but at least it doesn't sound normal. It's hope, isn't it? Because you were probably an early, not an early adopter, but you were one of the earliest people to be canceled I suppose, and then you got uncancelled.

Yeah, yeah, it was a long time ago. I'm 49 now and I got my first job in radio at 17. So, and I've been in broadcasting the whole time. So what is that? 32 years, is that 32? It is, isn't it? I mean I ought to know my way around it a little bit by now. But I got a blue Peter job at 21 and then I lost it at 22 and it was a big scandal at the time. Suppose there's something about getting caught

for taking drugs where you can just come back. It's not one of the worst ones. It's not one of the worst ones. I think if you've... There are far worse ones that make you look like a malicious person. If you beat someone up, if you do something aggressively sexual, if you say something racist, if you... Those sort of reveal something about you that people don't like. I think the desire to get drunk and get high is something people generally can get over.

Yeah, we can get over that. I mean, it's a difficult one in combination with children's TV, isn't it? Yeah, it is. That was the problem at the time. But now everyone, I mean, it's so much, it's not like you said something horrendously racist on Twitter. No. And then you bounce back. Do you mind me asking are you sober now then?

No. Not at all. I've gone through loads of periods of stopping and I've done periods of AA and I admire AA. One of those things that I find is a strange combination of people telling the most dramatic stories You've ever heard that I find really boring I'm not even joking that I remember I was sitting in one In Chelsea and it was sat down the person who's telling the story Naming anyone there were three or four famous people in there and it's quite

You some of them. I was like, all right. And I was sitting in one and it was this guy was telling this story about he'd come out of prison and he'd gone to prison because he'd got high and he'd stolen a car and he was chased by a police helicopter. Then he drove through a police barricade and I remember just sitting there checking my watch going, when's this going to be? Boring.

Imagine someone you know telling you that story, but somehow it's just one dramatic story after another and it became a bit numb to it. Wow, that is fascinating. Is it because it's boring? The most dramatic, most boring stories. Is it because it is just, yeah, you're desensitized because everyone's just recounting their rock bottom.

Now having said that, I do admire it. It's more or less free. You go and you can chuck in a tenner if you want to, but it's an amazing service where people want to help you and then people will offer to sponsor you. It is people trying to help each other. And what is amazing about AA is those people who will say, you know, you have to say your name, you know, I'm Richard and I'm an alcoholic. And they'll often talk about how long they've been sober.

And there are people in almost any meeting who've been sober for 22 years or more, or even 15 or 30, but a lot. And that is, I guess, an act of generosity. If I'd been sober for 15 years, I wouldn't still be going to AA and listening to more stories. It's not generosity though, is it? Isn't it necessity? I think for some of them, they are fairly certain they won't drink again, but they do want to help. I think there are quite a lot of people who just want to help. So it's

a very positive place. It just didn't work for me. And then I guess I do like drinking. I'm going to Ibiza tomorrow so there's not much point being sober. I mean you can't go to Ibiza sober, you just have to not go. You just have to not go. I tried to do what I have done successfully a hundred days sober. A friend of mine runs this thing called 100 Days and her whole thing is that AA is difficult for people who haven't hit a rock bottom, but people who want to drink less. Yeah. She says it's good for that. Yeah. So she's launched this thing in America called 100 Days where you can just try and

do 100 days sober. That's quite good. And it's much better than just doing dry Jan because then you get past a certain point and you're like, okay, I'm really, really learning to live without it now. Because I think if you do dry Jan you're going to get to the end. You sober now? So I've done, I did the 100 days and then I went a bit beyond and then, and now at the moment I basically will only have one drink when I drink.

But that is hard, isn't it? I'd say that is the hardest. I couldn't go to AA and say, I'm only having one drink. Like it wouldn't be tolerated. That's not the idea. The idea is how many days have you gone and you talk about how many days. But what about the rest of us, I suppose, is what I'm asking. I think the desire to drink less is really good. I went to see an

alcohol doctor not long ago because I'm often I want to drink less and I'm not like out of control or anything but I do think I should drink less and it also affects your sleep drinking and get bored of being tired and that was interesting and I said to him why am I an addict and he said And that was interesting. And I said to him, why am I an addict? And he said, he said, well, tell me about your family. So my mom's basically an addict, alcoholic, and my granddad, he died of alcoholism. And he went, well, that's why, it's just genetics.

And I said, so it's not, some people think it's a result of like childhood trauma or something you're running away from or not dealt with. And he was like, nah, it's just, it's just genetic. It's just a disease. So now I think I can just say to my wife, it's not dealt with. And he was like, nah, it's just genetic. It's just a disease. So now I think I can just say to my wife, it's not my fault. It's granddad's fault.

Granddad. It's granddad's fault. It's mum's fault. Yeah. Of course I'll have more trouble. But at the moment I'm not, I drink and I enjoy it and I don't seem to get in trouble at all.

So it's fine. It's not so much that I'm worried at the moment. I'm not in a I drink and I enjoy it and I don't seem to get in trouble at all So it's fine. It's it's not so much that I'm worried about being dangerous. So I just think like the calories and the sleep bit Yeah, that bit is also annoying but it's the hangovers for me. I'm a wonderful drunk. Yeah, I love to drink and I'm great I'm so great. I imagine I imagine you are I can imagine that easily. I mean, I have, don't get me wrong. There have been moments, sure. I was remembering the other day that I got security. I was at like a really fancy comedy awards type thing. And I pretended as a joke because we hadn't been nominated or we hadn't won or something.

I pretended to one of the other writers that I was going to smash them overhead with a chair and I went to pick up the chair and get like and a security guard took me like escorted me away and I was like no I was doing like it was a joke it was a joke but of course there's nothing you can say when you're pissed and you've sort of tried to like violently throw it like throw a chair like there's no explaining it and actually you should say we're at a comedy event it's a joke we Like there's no explaining it. And actually- You should say we're at a comedy event. It's a joke. We're at a comedy event.

It's a joke. But once you're drunk, you know, and also once you get the reputation for being drunk as I have, obviously, and also working in comedy, people don't take you seriously. Surprise, surprise. People don't take you seriously.

So is quite, I've quite enjoyed like having this period of sobriety just to be like, who am I when I'm not just being an absolute drunk twat? What I find annoying about myself is if I have an eye of not drinking, I'll go into the office, right? I work on ideas mainly for a living and I'll just have so much energy and I'll be better at it. Most of the comics I know don't drink much. It seems to be, maybe, I don't think the old days comics drank a lot and they were drinking on stage. I feel most of those that I know that are successful and gigging all the time aren't because I don't know that you can.

It's a comedy so much about memory, it's so much about performance. A lot of it's memory, isn't it? And I think... Yeah, sharpness. I think being quick is like the sort of the panel show thing. I think you've got to be so quick and so focused and you've got to be concentrating. I think to be, to sort of, to succeed from what I've seen on those sorts of shows,

you've got to be funny really quickly. You've got a very short window of time to me, you know, seconds to prove yourself. So I don't know how you do that if you're hungover. And I think the other thing, I've not done many panache shows, I've done a few. If you don't get in there quick confidently, then your own confidence or lack of it gets on top of you. Do you know what I mean by that? If you go on there, you're hungover, which I've done, then I become self-conscious I'm hungover, then I say something that doesn't quite land, and then I'm aware, I'm really

aware that I've said something that hasn't really landed, and then that gets in the way of saying something else that might land, and then it just becomes self-perpetuating. Having said that, having said that, I've done one or two where I've had a beer or two and gone on, and it's been all right, just before going on. Having said that, I've done one or two where I've had a beer or two and gone, oh no, it's been all right, just before going on. You know when a beer's peak relaxes you? Sometimes you can just hit the sweet spot. That's the thing. That's what got me back into it again, as I'm sure it did with you.

I went on Question Time not long ago. Absolutely hammered. I actually wish I'd had a beer afterwards. I wish I'd had a beer because there was a waiting room and there were loads of beers and wines and as you can imagine, none of it was like the environment secretary and Fiona Bruce and the editor of The Spectator. It was that kind of crowd. You need a couple of this to live and things like that. But I didn't have one because no one else

did and it went absolutely fine, but I wanted to be more angry about some of the subjects that came up and looser and I remember thinking after that one, I reckon that was an example where if it had to be it would have been better and there is when you go on Question Time, it's a really nice show to go on and you feel slightly intimidated when you go there because you're right we're going to talk about Ukraine and we slightly intimidated when you go there because you're right we're gonna talk about Ukraine and we're gonna talk about Gaza and we're gonna talk about some tax policy and and I make game shows for a living and And that is an unusual combination of you your slight anxiousness gets in the way

But then five minutes in as with anything, you know, we do when you're on stage five minutes in you sort of alright Aren't you do not I mean it's the driving on minutes in, you sort of all right, aren't you? Do you know what I mean? It's the driving on. I think it's like driving on the motorway. Yeah. You see the most when you think fucking hell. And then you get on and everything slows down. Yeah. And then you don't realize you. You don't really think about the fact that you're driving so fast. That's true. Yeah. It's a I do know what you mean. You can sort of settle into it.

It's funny how sometimes the things that scare you the most can actually also become quite boring. You know, this has come up twice already. This might be to do with my age. I have a particularly strong strain of ADHD. So it's probably part of that. Yeah, I can tell. And can you really? Yeah, I could have diagnosed you. Honestly, what from just from talking to me or from? Yeah, I think there's a sense of yeah. Wow, because I've only just been diagnosed. Have you? Yeah. How old are you? 41. It's great getting, I got diagnosed at 42. Right. I really enjoyed getting diagnosed. It was really interesting. So which type? That's related to addiction. I've got, Apparently there's seven types of ADD and ADHD.

And I went to a place called the Amon Clinic in Orange County, because I lived in Los Angeles for a long time. And I had a brain scan. Did you have to do that massive questionnaire? Yeah. Which is so catch 22 to ask someone with ADHD to do a huge questionnaire. It's like, that's the thing we can't, they all say,

we can't do it. You can't do it. That should be the test. You go I couldn't do it and they go we got ADHD. All right thanks. Case closed. Yeah that's just reminded me that I haven't there's another thing that I haven't done to do with it. Yeah I'm really pleased I got mine. It's definitely correlated with addiction anyway for a lot, not everyone, but for a lot of people. It's often about having, ADHD is often about having slow blood flow to the prefrontal cortex and they did a brain scan on me and my wife was with me in the room when I was getting the results and Daniel Amon is this leading spokesperson.

You can see him on Instagram, Daniel Amon. Oh I know exactly who you mean. He's fantastic. He's fantastic. So I'm into the Amon Clinic. His I know exactly who you mean. He's really good. He's fantastic. He's fantastic. So I'm into the Eamon clinic. His clinic's in. Oh wow I know who you mean.

Yeah he's an amazing. Yeah. Mind. He's very clear. If you're interested in ADHD and you look up Daniel Eamon, he does give very clear advice. He says there's seven types and the one thing that's good for all types of ADD and ADHD is exercise. That's one of his. He says it just is. Exercise is the thing.

Do you think alcohol is good for it? I've not checked. One's fine. I think he says one margarita is alright. But I was- every two to three weeks. Yeah, not every half an hour. Yeah, right. Not every off and hour. He brought up my brain scan and my blood flow is so slow at the front of my brain that you could see it as a, you could see a physical manifestation of my ADHD. The front of my brain was black because the blood was moving so slowly.

It made, it came out as black on the brain scan. He said, look, there's a normal brain and it's not as black as mine So it's a bit like there's a hole there, which it isn't it's the blood flowing really slowly and the reason that You know, it's a spectrum and there's different types but with for people like me one of the reasons that you drink a lot of coffee Drink a lot of alcohol reach for stimulants is because you're trying to make up for that, even subconsciously in, you don't know this when you're a teenager in your twenties, but you are, unless you've had it diagnosed, but what you're doing is you're trying to make

up for the fact you've got this weirdly slow blood flow to the front of your brain. That's partly what it is. And it's to do with sort of like dopamine hunting. Yeah, definitely. So you don't feel like you've got your dopamine hunting. Yeah, definitely. So you don't feel like you've got your dopamine hit. Yeah, exactly. So you see we're sort of dopamine hunters apparently. Yeah, go finding things. Whether it's a family member, friend or furry companion joining your summer road trip, enjoy the peace of mind that comes with Volvo's legendary safety. During Volvo Discover Days, enjoy

limited time savings as you make plans to cruise through Muscogee or down Toronto's bustling streets. From now until June 30th, lease a 2025 Volvo XC60 from 1.74% and save up to $4,000. Conditions apply. Visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. visit your GTA Volvo retailer or go to volvocars.ca for full details. And what type do you have? I can't remember, just a strong one. He said he looked at you, put the brain scan on the wall and my wife Rebecca was there and he said, he looked at it and he went I'm surprised you're alive. That's what he said and then he put his hand on my wife's shoulder and he said, she is keeping you alive. Oh my God. She must have felt so validated by that. Yeah. She knows obviously a nightmare. But so was this, is this before or after the near death experience? Just before that actually. He said, yeah, he said, I'm surprised you're not dead.

And then three months later, I was nearly dead. Yeah, it's kind of dead. Oh my God. I went to blood. This is what went into a coma with, it was a double lung infection. It's a crazy story. I heard you talking about it.

And I think people get, people that know me, like you're not talking about that again, are you? And I, cause we've had COVID since then, and it just seems like really common to go into a coma. We've all done that. Oh, yeah. But it's, I tell you what's exciting was I went to, okay, they put me in a coma with a four minute warning because both of my lungs were filling

up with this infection. It was a mystery. And then I went to blood oxygen, 58. And if you go below, I mean, if you go below 90, you need to go to hospital. But what they say is if you go below blood oxygen, 60, you either die or get brain damage. I went to 58 and I'm not dead. So. So special guy? Is that what we're saying?

That is what we're saying. Technically I have to have got brain damage. So medically special guy? Can't you diagnose that? So that's why it's surprising to me that you went to see a brain... An A.E. Well, who's your neurologist before this happened to you? Have you been to see a brain, what was he, a neurologist before this happened to you?

Have you been to see Dr. Armin since? No, I haven't. And I could maybe get another brain scan because my whole body went blue. It was one of those situations. How long were you in a coma for? Nine days, I did seven days and they brought me out and I was really violent.

And I was trying to kill a nurse and I was really violent and I tried to kill a nurse and I pulled all the pipes out my throat. I had a tracheotomy and all the alarms went off and so they put me in another coma. Put him back in. Put me back in. They struggled to get me to sleep and I think that might be because I've taken a lot of things in my time. And then I came out on day nine and I had a few more days in intensive care in ICU.

When you're in your coma, do you have any memory of any of the dreams or anything? No, no, I recognise voices. When I came out of the coma, I'd meet a doctor and I would, I'd be like, oh yeah, I recognise your voice. So the voice penetrated somehow. So when people say that they can't hear you, yeah, it's there.

They can hear the voice, but there was no actual memory. I do think it, I mean it was after that that I stopped being a host and then transitioned into what I do now which is basically inventing game shows and reality shows, talent shows. Why did you stop hosting? What was it about that experience? I think it was partly, there was two things. Obviously I've done that for a long time from children's TV to various other shows and lots of radio and I guess I was doing a job at that point in Los Angeles for Fox in daytime and it was just underwhelming. I didn't, it was a really basic news show and it was a co-hosted with someone and I just I found it too easy

and I didn't think it was very good and I was just slightly embarrassed to be doing it not that anyone saw it but it was just you were above it yeah it's a bit basic it was but it was a bit basic it was just read a script about this story and briefly and then she'd read one, then I read one. It was just nothing to it. And so I left that and then I quit that job and I actually went into the coma a day or two after that. And so I suppose when I came out and I just at that point got a company called Studio Lambert that makes shows like The Traitors and Gogglebox interested in a format I'd come up with. And I just what maybe this could be an avenue

and then that got picked up to pilot by ABC in America then it became a series on ABC and then I got others made and moving and so I suppose it was it was I was a bit bored of what I was doing I'd had a dramatic health thing and then I was finding success in inventing ideas and I suppose when you start to have success, it becomes attractive. Yeah. So you started to chase that bit more. Yeah. But was there a feeling of life's too short, I need to be doing what I enjoy doing?

Maybe I do find that if I do the same job for a long time, time moves too quickly. I've done several spans of what I've done a few years on the radio. And if say you do five years on a radio show and you're doing it every day, you're excited. What's that? You can't remember. Was that last year? Was that three years ago when I interviewed that person? Then what all the years start to blend into one another. And the act of, it's probably why I went to Los Angeles in the first place, it's the act of doing something different makes time slow down. And I like that. And I want to do maybe an ADHD thing, but I want to do different things. Yes. Diversify. Did you enjoy Los Angeles then? Because you don't live there anymore. No, I'd really enjoyed it. I mean, a lot of people moan about it. I really liked it.

It was exciting to go and live somewhere new. That was exciting. That wasn't inside this country I've spent so much of my life in. We moved in in January, and the next morning it was clear blue skies and it was warm and we were like, oh, this is interesting.

And then it became, I found it an easy place to live. I think work-wise, of the first half, I did nine years in America with one in New York. But I think the first half, the second half went better than the first. And I think actually annoyingly, I came closely quitting at the end of the first year, because I left my job on Radio 5 Live. And I'd had an idea for a talk show where I would interview celebrity British stars who were doing well in America.

And it got commissioned by, I think it was by BBC America. And I was gonna host it and produce it. And I was gonna interview big names in their favorite city. And they were gonna, it was a multi-location interview. And the first guest was Ricky Gervais and he was in New York. And we were, we'd rigged a car to drive around in it. When we're gonna go to where he did his first gig in New York,

we're gonna go to the zoo, cause it was a York we're gonna get the zoo because it was a zoo and a favorite restaurant and I went to the embassy and there's a problem with my visa and and they kept my fucking passport and I couldn't get on a plane famously without a passport and Ricky was already in New York and all the crew were there and the car was rigged and the locations were rigged and cameras like these ones everywhere and they'd set it up properly. And then I had to call him and say, I can't get there even though you're in New York. And then it costs BBC America said, right, we lost 200 grand that day.

And it's going to cost us too much money to get the show back on its feet. And then really, really really annoying thing it was really stressful at the time was I'd quit my job on radio five because I'd got that commission. No I can't cope with this. And then that happened before it actually moved. I'd rented my house out. I can say this now because Jimmy Carr went on the Joe Rogan podcast and told this story. I rented my house out to Woody Harrelson. Wow. Which was, and the reason I wouldn't normally reveal that, but he did speak about it to

Joe Rogan in front of 25 million people last week. Why? Because I told Jimmy a story, I had breakfast with Jimmy a couple of weeks ago and I told him this story because we both know Woody. I became friends with Woody through being his landlord. And then he liked the story so much and Joe Rogan likes Woody. So Jimmy was like, he told this story where he was saying to Joe Rogan, I'll tell you how laid back Woody Harrelson is. And it was a story I told Jimmy, which is Woody comes to my house and looks around. He's just so, he's every bit as nice as you would imagine. And he looks around my house and he goes,

I want to know, I want to know your friends. It's a funny thing to say, quite flattering. I want to know. Oh, I bet. He looked at my house and whatever he saw in my house, he went, I want to know your friends. So he's in my house for a week. What was in your house?

I don't know, some nice furniture. I don't know, I do. I don't really understand. You'd think I'd have pictures of interesting friends, but I didn't. And then, I mean, it was a fun house, but I don't know. And then, so I then, he wanted it sooner than I wanted to give it up. So I then moved somewhere else, hadn't yet gone to America.

And I thought I'm going to introduce you. I thought, right, I'll introduce you to my friends. And so I went to pick him up and he'd been in my house a week. And I went to pick him up to he'd been in my house a week and I went to pick him up to take him to a party in the countryside and I went in my house and it was getting dusky and it's a bit dark and he's there and he's down in the basement and went and grabbed him and said right let's go and as we're walking up the stairs to the door I said to him is everything alright because I'm

now his landlord I mean is everything alright Woody with the house and he went yeah yeah man it's great it's great I went good and then we stepped outside the door and he grabbed my arm and oh no there is one thing and I said what is it and he said how do you turn the lights on? He'd been there a week that's how laid back he is been there a week. That's how laid back he is. Been there a week. How do you turn the light on? I had got those touch sensitive light pans that were annoying. I had got those. I can see why he hadn't figured it out, but he could have called me at any point. What did he do? Just wait for it to get, just take himself off to bed once it got dark like they did before electricity.

Yeah, he might probably get sleep earlier. Might be quite healthy. So I then moved to America really without a job and so we went there. That's weird. I've always worked. You know, I like work. I really do like, always do, I just do. And so it's very strange for me not to work and we got there. We're in this not that much to do and in the first year, okay, so I've rented a house I've got big income from that. I picked a couple of corporate things the host of the thing on ITV that didn't succeed But still it was a job But it was a lot of like this isn't what I'm used to mostly not doing anything And at the end of the first year I was like, right

I better, let's call it a day, let's go back to Britain and get another job on the radio. And then right at the last minute, CAA, who are my agents over there, and they still are, got me a job in New York with National Geographic. And my first day is a good program. And having been out of work,

the first days filming I did in America was I went for a hike with President Obama in Yosemite. And that was my first day's filming. And he was still in the last days of his presidency. Where can we find this show? I mean, it's Nat Geo. So don't put stuff on YouTube in a normal way. You could probably find it.

If you Google me and Barack Obama, there's a very nice picture of us walking through. But that was my first day's filming. Incredible. How was he? Yeah, he's exactly like you think. I mean, he... Because you sort of did that kind of farewell tour, didn't you? Did you have that photo up in your house when Woody Harrelson came around?

No, because that's after that. That's actually after that. But it's keeping it. That's actually after that. But it's keeping it. It's quite good. Right. Well, I'm going to guess that that could possibly be a perfect day. Yeah. Yeah, it could. By the way, they caught me. Can I just say something quickly? Yes. I got I was in New York and I'd had a big night out and I woke up with a massive hangover and I got a call from the head of comms

at Nat Geo and he said he said you're interviewing President Obama a week today and he went the Secret Service are monitoring you and I was like I'd really had a big night and I looked around my room and I went they're not monitoring me like right now? Do you mean now? Or do you mean like starting tomorrow? Oh my god. What a fucking liability. Okay. Should we get going with your perfect set? Yeah, yeah, sure. Are you ready? Have you got a vague idea of what it might be?

You gonna make it up as we go along? Definitely. Okay. So the format of the show. I don't prep any. I'm ADHD. Yeah. I book, if I'm traveling transatlantically,

I book the taxi to take me to the, I book the Uber and then I start packing. No, please no. I do. It's great when it's like seven minutes away. You know it's annoying when it's only three minutes away. Oh for fuck's sake where's my passport? But no no I book when I fly transatlantly I book the Uber then I start packing. This is so stressful to me because I've got it but I don't I'm I don't have that I don't have that like I don't have that like, I don't understand. That's so stressful to me. So are you still packing when the Uber arrives?

Yeah, and they keep it waiting a bit. You need that pressure, don't you, in order to get anything done? Yeah, I think so. I saw a great quote, I'm sorry to talk about ADHD a lot, but there was, I saw a quote from someone who's another doctor who said, it was about when you have it very strong. He said, when you have a really strong ADHD, there's only two types of time. There's now and not now. And that's so like, I get that.

Like I'm going to Ibiza tomorrow at 8.50 in the morning and I booked my flight whilst walking to the studio. And that to me is quite early. That's booking it quite early. But do you not, it must have been so expensive to do. This is an expensive. Yeah, wasted a shit load of money. Yeah, yeah, it's really expensive.

Total waste of money. It's really stupid to book a flight that late. But I don't understand because you're a producer. Yeah. How do you get by two assistants? Round the clock? Well, no, but like Fiona will call me 10 minutes before every... She called me just now 10 minutes before the start.

Are you there? Are you on your way there? How far away are you? It's very much like guiding me in. Carers, essentially. Carers. That is right. Anyway, my perfect day is... Anyway, yeah. Let's start. It's very hard to have a perfect day when you are chaotic.

My actual perfect morning, I can actually have that because it's really boring, but I really, really like exercising in the morning. And it's, for reasons we've already discussed, really, I just like it. And I find that when I go to bed, I look forward to it because I know I'll get up and I know I'll do something. I'll either go to the gym on my own or do a trainer twice a week. And that's really boring. And I really look forward to it. My morning is really, the only routine I've got is the morning. Is it boring to you? No, it's fucking awesome. I mean, it's boring to say it, but do you enjoy it in the moment of the exercise? I enjoy the moment so much because I can either listen to a podcast like this and learn things

or because I have to come up with ideas for a living, I do a lot of it by playing music really loud and visualizing scenes in shows. And that is no, and you know, being on a, I don't use treadmills, I use, you know, those step machines that go out, the escalators that go on forever, the infinity escalators. Absolutely hell. Right, but I do that for half an hour with Music Loud and then I'll often have ideas in that situation.

So it makes me really happy. Then I'll come back and I'll have this really, really boring green juice called AG1. Yeah, I know that one. Do you know that thing? It's not a smoothie, it's just a little powder with a lot of wheatgrass and it tastes horrible and I really look forward to that. And then sometimes I'll go on the school run with Rebecca. Oh wow, so this is pre-school, this is early.

I do this all first thing. What time do you usually get up then? Well I don't sleep well. So I'm normally awake. I'm awake like between six and seven, I suppose. Right. And then I get up around then and then around seven. Normally how many hours sleep do you normally get? Not enough because I drink too much and all that, you know,

but I got sick last night. I worked out, which is okay. You don't seem to mind. No, you sort of, it don't seem to mind. No. It sort of seems to me like you've made your peace with the fact that you're, you're gonna, you've deliberately made a decision to carry on drinking even though you know it affects you in your sleep

because you'd rather have the alcohol in your life. Yep. That's true. Yeah, that is true. Well, the truth is I enjoy your drink. I wouldn't do it otherwise, would I? I enjoy it. Yeah, you know that it's, the truth is I enjoy a drink. I wouldn't do it otherwise, would I? I enjoy it. Yeah.

You know that it's, you know all the stuff. I know. Yeah. I've seen doctors, but AA, done it all. So you were up on a normal day, but this would also be your perfect day. But is this- That is, I love that start to the day.

Yeah. My, actually, my office is only two streets away from my house in Primrose Hill. So I go, yeah, and I go there and, and quite rich, aren't you? Is that what you're trying to tell us? You've got a house big enough to rent out to Woody Harrelson and you live in Primrose Hill. Yeah. Look, I've done okay. And I've been working since I was 17, I'm 49. How were you raised? Dragged up.

Dragged up. I've got, my mum and dad are still around. They are lovely. My dad was a lawyer defending criminals, criminal defense lawyer. We would celebrate when he got a big criminal off. He very much has dedicated his life to keeping criminals on the streets. And he's done it really well. He's done it really well. Then my mum is wonderful, crazy, drinks a lot, narcissist, really fascinating one in a lot of ways. What did she say?

Just a few years ago, but my father-in-law just got married and been on a cruise. Went to stay at his house with my mum. He's got a house in France. This is how her... She's not... It's hard to explain how she meant it in her head, but I'll attempt it. She said to him, what did you do? And he's a little bit, he's quite serious my father-in-law and my mum goes, so he's brilliant and really clever and you can almost be a bit scared of him at times because he's so clever and he's quite a serious businessman but I also really admire him. So I try not to say silly stupid things in front of him because he's really clever. And then my mum said to him, where did you go on your remarry?

Where'd you go on your honeymoon? And he said, Oh, we went on a cruise. And my mum went, Oh, I'd hate to go on a cruise. And I did think that's not, he's just told you that is what she's just done for his honeymoon. And she had a hate to go on a cruise. And then she said, then she went, bought, she's got a Mansfield accent. She goes, but I would love to have been on the Titanic.

That was so good. She wouldn't go on a cruise, but I suddenly knew what was going on in her head. She meant in her head, I know exactly, because I know her. She'd seen like the pictures of first class with the oak panel dining room that's what she meant she'd somehow forgotten the bit about it snapping into and going into the Atlantic where all those bodies were tumbling down and it chimneys on

the way yeah because it's so absurd but it's particularly funny when you know that she's not saying it as a joke. She's saying because her head is going I can see the first classic apartments they look nice. I would love to have been on the Titanic. So yeah not very far through my perfect day. We've gone we've exercised. Yeah well right yeah I I read the thing that does make me happy. So I suppose is working on ideas and so and we've quite a few more coming up as a company and going in and you have some that are Just beginning their life and need refining and often it takes a while to refine them The ideas in the company pretty they all start with me

But have a really good team would bring them to life who are expert people and producers and writers and the idea of just working on a Show and working on the rounds and what happens in it that does that makes me happier than The other bits of having the other bits having a business are you have to have strategy meetings and you have to do you have To reviews of people and you have to you know all that but the bit that makes me happy Hell for you though because you get you find it boring when someone tells a story police helicopter It must be hell for you though, because you find it boring when someone tells a story about you. A police helicopter. Yeah, exactly.

So, that, but the actual bit of working on an idea and thinking, well, what about if in round two it was only 30 seconds and what about that new way to do a talent show and that I really, really enjoy and I'd like to do even more of it. And that's why most of my, I've tried to make it so that my time in the office is mainly that. So your perfect morning would be kind of brainstorming ideas and working up all of your... Yeah in great detail. Refining sentences in decks and that kind of thing. Yeah. So we're at work all day? I do work all day yeah. Yeah we're not good so you so you're not gonna take a I know you do normally but on your perfect day we're not so you're not going to take a I know you do normally, but on your perfect day, we're not going off to do anything else in the afternoon.

We can go to Ibiza. We can go to liberty. I've been to Liberty today and I'm going to Ibiza tomorrow. But neither of my perfect day. I don't I don't I just don't think in those terms. I it's because a lot of my existence is chaos. It's very hard to say this is it. It's lying on a beach here because lying on a beach. That's isn't quite it's fine You don't want to lie on a beach. I like I like I like being friends getting drunk and being silly That's I like that. I do like that

Okay, so works finished and we're going off to the ideal scenario, which is to meet up with some friends. Where are we? What are we doing? I think tomorrow will be a good example of that because we're going to, it's my friend's birthday and 80 of us are going to Ibiza, to a big house. Absolute carnage. Yeah. Absolutely, carniage. Yeah. So I mean that will be, I'm predicting that that will be an ideal afternoon. Tomorrow is going to be a better day.

Tomorrow might be my best day. When I was younger, I mean now life's more, I don't know, so having the responsibility of company changes things. But I used to think twice a week I was having the best day of my life. Really? I used to say that to people. I used to say twice a week, I'd be like, this is the best day. And I think my 30s, my ideal day in my 30s

was more fun than my day. I'd be on the radio talking to people, which is fun. And then I'd go to a Soho house opening or something in the evening. And that was just constantly fun. And that was where you were saying, this is the best day. Yeah, and I was just, I was invited,

in my 30s I was invited to a lot of things and a lot of openings and a lot and it was really fun. It really, it was a more, it was really quite exciting. Right. And now I don't go out as much and I just don't. You've got kids. I've got kids. Is that, did that change anything? I want to get the work right. There's so much to do. It didn't change things as fast as it should. It has now more, but it didn't for the first few years. You would have thought that having a baby would have slowed me down, but it didn't. Right. Were you slightly in denial about being a baby? Yeah, I think so.

I was too. I think so. Yeah. It's quite, it's hard. That transition is really, really hard. The baby bit is hard, isn't it? Yeah. And you can try and carry on. We've got two kids and I'm sort of, for a while I thought, well, Rebecca is such a good parent. Should we be three child parents? But I think, I think I'm a, I just think I'm

a two child parent. I think that's what I am. Some people are suit three, four, five, I just think I am. And then I tried three, four, five, I just think I am. And then I tried to, I was really trying to imagine having another baby around or even a two year old around it. It's so, so pleased I'm out of that phase. Rebecca did the real work here, but it is, it's definitely harder than people say. Isn't it? Isn't it just, it's more, isn't it harder than people?

It all really says how much, they're constantly relying on you to keep them alive. It's like fucking hell, it is. It's so, yeah. And it's so, I mean, the exhaustion is just like nothing else I've ever known. And like what, and also like what's happening to your body. And you're kind of like, your heat,

your body is sort of like in a state of shock and it's healing and you feel physically like probably the worst I've ever felt in my body. Yeah. And like hormones and just crazy and then, and then nobody can really look after you because there's this really vulnerable thing that needs looking after more than you. So I think that was a thing. And then suddenly it's like,

and also by the way, your career is over there and everyone else is carrying on without you. Yeah, that's hard. But that's the burden on the woman, isn't it? That's always structurally unfair. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't, but I, you know, that is the,

that is just sort of the biological thing that will never ever be, well, maybe not never, but. There's also, there are points, when they're young, two, three, four, when they're just flat out, points are just, they're so annoying. I don't know, they're just flat out annoying. Yeah. Do you and your male friends talk about your feelings?

Do me and my male friends talk about feelings? Yeah, do you talk about your feelings with your male friends? No, not, not hugely, no, not really. No. How do you think your female friends talk about your feelings? All the time, that's all we talk about. How do you think Rebecca felt when you had your first baby? She had always wanted to be a mum. So for her, for as long as she could remember she

wanted to have a child. So I think she, it was a really wonderful thing, but I think she looks back with disappointment at me at that time because I was still going out, you know, and not putting my weight and, you know, coming in late and I think those first few years, I didn't snap into what you kind of require to do quickly enough. So there was too much of a burden on her, but for her generally, she just truly, I hadn't wanted to be a parent until I met her

and then we fell in love really intensely and she would talk about kids a lot and that made me think, oh, right, okay. But for her, I suppose there was so much joy associated with achieving the thing that she wanted. That's what she'd always dreamt of. She's really good at it because, you know, you tend to enjoy things you're good at, don't you?

Do you know what I mean by that? And she's very talented at it. So I think she'll have found me a disappointment, but she never really had any help and she's good at it and likes it. So I think for her ultimately it was a wonderful thing whilst finding me annoying. And you were annoying because you just went there. Yeah, I'm sort of mental age of 21 and you know... Still? I mean, maybe 23, maybe you've gone up a little bit, crept up by a couple of years.

Why do you think you found it difficult to be there? I don't know. I mean, I didn't find babies interesting enough. You know, now they're really interesting. They're 11 and 13. I find them, obviously I love them, but I just find them interesting. Well they must have had to work quite hard to gain your interest. That's right, as it should be.

They put in the work and now they've been rewarded because I occasionally pay attention to them. So let's hear about your perfect evening which might involve one or two of these 80 people? I'd really like, I'm interested in people. Like I went away to a country house at the weekend and there were eight or nine of us around a table and everyone was clever and interesting and it was giggly and silly and wonderful. We played this game where it's really worth playing, I think they call it the numbers game, but you sit around a table and then one person closes their eyes and the rest of you pick a number. You know like in Werewolf or Mafia when you make someone the murderer? Yeah. Right, so you go, so you, one of you closes your

eyes and then the rest of you say a number and you signal to each other like, like I'm, you know, Sam and holding up five fingers and two fingers and then, and then the other person opens their eyes and they have to work out what the number is by itself they'll bring up a subject so they'll say things like okay our friends are the halves and then so let's say the numbers two right let's say it's a low number it's always out of ten it's between zero and ten so let's say I've closed my eyes and then I open it and I've got to find out what a number is.

So I come up with a subject say to you. Okay, I'm thinking of the number now. You all know the number. So I go, say we're kind of go our friends are the halves. Then you'll say the husband or wife of a friend that you think is only a two, whatever that means. It's like that. It's such, it's such a funny.

And then of course you can do it through more obvious things like TV shows and music. But it when it gets... What a great pop band, male pop band from the 90s. You could do that. But it's a really funny game because it involves so much prejudice and opinion emerging. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I like talking, I like talking to people and I like people. And so I guess my perfect evening

is just talking to interesting people. That's a lie. And then probably drinking. Yes. What's your poison? Is it all of it? Yeah, I mean, vodka, vodka martini. I'm trying to take lower calorie stuff at the moment. So I drink less red wine than I used to. I try and drink less beer.

Do you have a favourite martini from a favourite place? No, not really. I mean, because if vodka martini, all vodka, when you go to a bar and say, you order vodka and they go, what sort of vodka do you want? It all tastes the same. It's all irrelevant. No, not really. What is it? But how do you have it? I mean you go to Famously like Duke's bar and have a nice... With a twist? Yeah straight up with a twist. Sometimes, I had a dirty martini last night and there's so much brine in it, it was a bit sickly. But straight up with a twist. Vodka martini, I'm moving back on my chair because I'm ADHD. I keep moving for no reason.

Volca Martini straight up with this. Now, obviously there's famous places like Duke's where you can go and do that. But I just, I just whatever. I just like the alcohol. Yeah. Okay. And then I have a lot of Rennie. You know you drink, you know you drink too much when you have a lot of Rennie.

You know you're middle aged and you drink too much and you're popping those things. Or you're on a Maprasny. You know you're middle age and you drink too much and you're popping those things. Or you're on amaprazole. What's that one? That's the one that means you don't have to take renny because you're on constant meditation. Does it block the production of acid or something? Yes. What's it called?

Amaprazole. Amaprazole, okay, that'd be a good one. Get that for a beta. It does work, but what I would say is you can't, health warning, again, not a doctor, I have a tendency to do this, but you can't absorb nutrients as well when you take a Moprazov.

Doesn't sound good for you. Well, you can't take, you need nutrients. You don't take in your vitamins and stuff, because I was on a Moprazov for ages, and I ended up having to get vitamin b12 injections Oh, did you none of this sounds really good you could just I've had those before they make you feel that famous you go for hangovers a vitamin b12 injection You bomb is famously good hangovers. No it is if it brings you back to life

It really does if you have a genuine b12 deficiency and then you get a b12 injection. Oh my it's really good, isn't it? Well, because that's the thing that it oxygenates your red blood cells or something Like you really do need vitamin b12 apparently the end of last year for the first few months of this year I had one a week and a vision b12 in my bum every I've got this got this doctor, right? He's a bit like Michael Jackson stock. She just gives me anything One point I had eight prescriptions, there wasn't really much wrong with me. What does he, I mean...

Well, he's just like, oh, you're a bit deficient in this, bit deficient in that. Bit of this, bit of that. Bit of that, bit of that. A lot of it is sort of vitamin-y based, but weirdly prescription-based, but it did work.

What, and he's over here, is he? I'll have to get his number. Yeah, I'll give you his number. He's terrific. You'll have less money, but you'll have a lot of vitamin B12. Fine. Sounds fantastic. So are we ending your perfect night with some sort of IV drip? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not very good at your perfect night with some sort of IV drip?

Yeah, yeah. I'm not very good at these perfect night things because as I said earlier, in a life of relative chaos it's hard to say, you know, this is oh I curl up with a book or I do this thing. I like people, obviously watching television with the kids is all fun and that's not really worth saying because it's obviously enjoyable. But I like people, I just do. I like listening to people. So I think, and that's why, the one thing I really miss about being a presenter

is interviewing. Because when I was, I used to do quite long form interviews on the radio and I'd read all the notes. And then what I learned after a while, and it was was a live show was I'd ask the first question, I'd only write the first question and then I would listen to that first answer and then I'd base all the other questions on the answer. That's why this is a good podcast, it's got the pretence of a format but really it's a conversation. It's not really a format, it's got the pretence of a format. And also like you can take it or leave it as you have.

I've put as much prep into this as I do for packing when I fly transatlantically. It's not that I hadn't thought about it and I listened to a couple this morning and I was looking at the notes about the perfect day and I did thought, I don't know what the answer is, unfortunately. I could say, but that to have a perfect one almost implies having some kind of routine to your existence and there isn't one. No. There isn't one. Well, it sounds like there is a bit in the mornings.

There's a bit in the mornings. I do, I'm lucky in that I have some fancy friends that invite me on some fancy things. But it's really hard to talk about those without sounding like a real... You're best friends with Ricky Gervais, aren't you? No, I know Ricky. I'm not best friends with Ricky Gervais.

But I know Ricky and I like, we like, we are friends, we like each other, but I haven't seen him in a little while. I left him standing in New York. No, but I've got- Just you and Woody and Jimmy Carr and Joe Rogan. I don't know Joe Rogan. Jimmy, I do know well.

Do you? Like a lot of people who, a lot of these people are really successful, have been around a long time. You know, Jimmy Carr, they're all clever at their core. You just sort of spend a bit of time with them, and you're like, okay, there's a reason for all this. And it is often that they're really clever. Ricky Gervais is really clever, you know.

And cleverness expresses itself in different ways, but I spent a bit of time with Jamie Oliver recently and he's just clever. You can see it's the way his mind moves and it's the speed at which it moves. And do you know what I mean by that? That these people become these kind of iconic people who are in our lives forever because at their core they're clever and it might not be the conventional I went to Oxford and got a double first thing doesn't matter. Yeah but Jamie Oliver is an interesting one isn't he because he he's business clever as well isn't he? Yeah and he's he's ambitious and you know he's and also I'm always interested in people who are dyslexic and really clever. Nick Jones, who founded Soar House,

these people are dyslexic, but they're just, they're clever. And I like, I like clever, I like people who are clever in the creative. I'm slightly less interested in the double first of Oxford clever people. Because they're not more clever, they're not more clever than Jamie Oliver, they're just, it's a different type.

Anyone can learn to pass an exam in a way. I know. It's a different type. And I suppose I'm more interested in the slightly non-conventional creative people clever thing. Yeah. Yeah. Than the I went to Harvard and I'm a lawyer. It's not as interesting. We have one final question. Yes. And something else I've not prepared, no doubt. It is.

We always ask everybody if they can just recommend something, a song, a TV show, a film, a book, anything from this week. So we asked the question, Richard Bacon, what is a piece of perfection you'd recommend this week? There's a thing, there's a podcast I listen to, which it's a bit niche, but it's so good. And you won't have heard of it, it's called Founders. Just the word founders, and it's one person talking on their own. And what he does is he reads books by founders of famous big businesses.

So he might be, he'll often read several, they can be autobiographies, they can be biographies, they can be letters they've written, but it might be Walt Disney or Steve Jobs or Henry Ford. Often it's someone you've not heard of, but they are people who founded, Estee Lauder, people who founded brands and did it well and who were interesting. And what he does is, he's on book 400 now, and it's a bit like he reads them so you don't have to.

And what he does is he cross references. So he never has a guest. And he'll talk to you, it'll be about an hour, hour and a half, and he'll tell you about the, I was listening to one last night that was about the young Steve Jobs. He found an interview with Steve Jobs from when Steve Jobs was 29.

And you go inside how he thought at 29. So they're quite obscure. They're, I mean, the night before, I was listening to one about a young Jeff Bezos. And a couple of days before that, I was listening to Jeff Bezos' most recent letters to his shareholders. Now that doesn't sound interesting but it is. These are all clever people but what he does, why it's a clever podcast is he cross references the books and he looks for commonalities between all these people that connects Henry Ford

to Edison to Walt Disney to Steve Jobs and and he'll do it. Oh, do you remember? Do you remember in book 319 when I was doing and do you remember what that's what's hang on. So Walt Disney and Steve Jobs both have the exact same approach to these to invention and creation and etc and it's a really it's it's a cute you in real time you can hear this man accumulating knowledge and then cross referencing to the other books he's read. And I know that sounds dry, but it's the amount of times I write down lines, I write down lines,

and he's very good as well at zeroing in on the best lines in the books, and he'll open the podcast with some of the best lines in the books. Most days I write something down from the podcast and I keep it. And it's really, really, really good. It's really clever and it's really interesting and there's something comforting actually about a podcast with just one voice on it. But that there's something about a podcast with one voice

that can be quite comforting. I couldn't do it. No I couldn't either. No no no I need to talk someone so do you. No I think you could. I can definitely talk a lot. No, I think you could. I can definitely talk a lot. Right. Well, Richard, thank you so much for coming on Perfecto. Such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much, Jessica. Thank you very much. Thank you, guys. Was it good?

Yeah, it was great. Great chat. Thank you. Well, that was wild. Love that guy. Thank you, Richard. What an absolute star. What a conversationalist, an anecdotalist. Did he think about his perfect day before he came on on the podcast perfect day? Not really. But did it matter? No. And just to say, yes, that ending did sound a bit cold. It's because we went massively off topic and started talking about his Ibiza bender and the secret guest list, which did not disappoint, but it did have to be cut out. So thank you, Richard. And thank you to you listeners for listening. If you liked this episode, why not like and subscribe, leave a review, or follow us on Instagram at Perfect Daycast. From Yorkshire with love, I'm Jessica Nappitt, wishing you

a perfect day. How do you know if you're worrying too much? How can you mend a broken heart? Does peaking at school ruin you for life? I'm Susie Ruffall, a stand-up comedian and someone who has always experienced anxiety. And I've written a book, Am I Having Fun Now? Considering some of life's big questions. Featuring bonus insights from the likes of Charlene Douglas, Sarah Pascoe, Elizabeth Day, and Dolly Auderton. Am I Having Fun Now? Is out now in hardback, ebook, and audio.