Perfect Day with Jessica Knappett - EP21: Joe Thomas

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Inbetweeners’ star Joe Thomas joins Jess Knappett on the podcast this week, for what may be the most achievable and depressing perfect day yet. The pair discuss absolutely loads of things that Joe hates, including - the afternoon, eating lunch, mornings, the time 2.30, Edinburgh, stand-up, and his phone. They also talk about foyers, raw dogging, the rain, being a father, and death! Yes, it sounds depressing, but it is very very funny. Like and subscribe for brand-new episodes every Thursday. Follow us on Instagram @perfectdaycast. And, why not get in touch? Email us at [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Side effects and allergic reactions can occur. If you're aged 18 to 45, talk to your healthcare professional or visit getg9.ca today. ["Get G9"] P-O-F-U-C-T P-O-F-U-C-T Alright then. We were talking about mindfulness. Forget it mate. Fucking forget it.

Hello Perfect Dayers, I'm Jessica Knappett and you are beginning to look a lot like Christmas. Welcome to an absolutely wild ride of an episode with my friend in between a star and fellow waffle king, Joe Thomas. Now, this episode is perhaps the most pessimistic and I'm gonna say it now, the most depressing perfect day anyone has ever had. And it really does go from bad to worse. So as a disclaimer, by the way, Joe wants us all to know he really loves his daughter. And I know he does, but he does talk a lot

about stuff he doesn't like. Like all mornings, all afternoons, going out, eating lunch, his phone, his age, Edinburgh, the passage of time and, just to reiterate, he doesn't like lunch. But I'll tell you one thing he does like, talking on podcasts. And this is such a funny one. I actually almost cried in the recording. Look, Joe Thomas can talk! And I'm really sorry, but it's happened again. The Brett Goldstein, as we're referring to it, is now... not just the Brett Goldstein, it's the Joe Thomas.

We waffled so much that we didn't make it to the evening part of Joe's depressing perfect day. Probably for the best, but he's gonna come back for part two, he has promised. So strap in, turn on your side lamp, this is Joe Thomas's Perfect Day, Part One. I hate those cunts. Alright then. That's it, yeah, I love podcasts, I love podcasts and I can't wait for them. You haven't got one though, have you? I consider you love them so much. I'm thinking of starting one.

They're like the, I basically hate the internet, but the only thing that wouldn't exist without the internet that's definitely good is podcasts. Like I literally can't think of anything else. And like- What about porn? Oh, porn, porn, so of course, yeah. Hardcore pornography.

What about shopping? And also like weird pornography. I can think of a few things. Stuff that you can can get in Germany. Like I won't be able to get that at all. I have to go to Hamburg. Like physically bring it back. We're not going back to that.

No, and the ferries were just getting so, I was running so much money on ferries. And I just can't do that. No suppose I and I wanted to kind of make sure that it was I want to make sure that it was you know right and so on but yeah what you think what you thinking in terms of like a format or is it just like a general just I've had a few. I've had probably just the chat. I think literally just kind of I just talk to people. That is a good idea.

I think probably a different guest every week. Are you getting your notebook out? No, no. Oh, I should get one. I think I remember it actually. Hold on. You're allowed notes. Oh, fine, no it's good.

It's not like an audition. No, I'm sorry. You're allowed to look at it. It's not like an audition Maybe even like put it up on a like a sort of an auto-cube. Yeah. Yeah. No, no So I think I know that I'm I'm mainly worried that it's just a bit all a bit boring I started doing this and I was like most most of the stuff I want is so dull. Like, if for like, is that? There's no such thing as a dull perfect day. I know I should be coming up with wild stuff, but like I don't, I think I am quite a dull,

I'm quite dull need. But before we get onto that, what's been happening with you, JT? What's been happening? Obviously you've announced the return of the Inbetween. I've announced that, all the full cast are on board and physically in Las Vegas, ready for the third edition.

All parties are on board. Ready to go. The script and it's coming out in I think 20 days. Yeah, you announced that on a different podcast today. Somebody said, this is the terrible thing, I literally cannot even remember which interview that was. I think it was in the middle of my Edinburgh show when I was just incredibly stressed all the time.

When you're doing an Edinburgh show, doing podcasts is like, just like, to me the Edinburgh show was like doing like my A-levels basically. Like I, thanks for coming everyone. I hated it and I just wanted it to be over. So every day it was like thanks for coming And it was like, you know when you've got like a run of a levels you like I've got an a level every day for ten days and Let's just fucking get to the end of the day and then the day ends And you're like, oh thank fucking god and then you wake up the next day and you're like, oh here it comes here

It comes here. It comes here. It comes So the podcast was in that bit before where I was like... I should be revising. I should be revising. And basically what it was is something against somebody, another human, they said, so would you like to do another Inbetweeners film if the opportunity arose? It always happens in this way. They say, would you like to work with them again? And because I don't say, I hate those cunts. And if you think... You are saying that now. What I mean is, I really like them. I'd love to do another film.

I can't make it happen. I don't write it. But I was like, yeah, I'd love to. And they're like, well, that's happening then. I'm like, no, it's not. And then they said, whoever it was, and what about doing it in Vegas? I was like, well, that's happening then. I'm like, no, it's not. And then they said, whoever it was, and what about doing it in Vegas? I was like, yeah, that'd work. Fine, I'll go to Vegas. So, I mean, it was basically like I was saying,

I'm not, I wouldn't stop this happening if it was offered to me. I actually genuinely don't understand what other respondents I'm supposed to give. I don't wanna go to you. No, I just had the same thing. And an article was written saying that I'd broken my silence. It's so ridiculous.

On the in-betweeners movie reunion. Finally. The language. The language that is used is sad. Not even in it. I was only in the first one for five seconds. But that's what is sad. I was in the first one for five seconds. But that's what you get. So you hated Edinburgh, but was it successful?

Yeah, it sold well and I think it went quite well. I find it unbelievably stressful. Doing stand-up generally or just Edinburgh? Doing stand-up, both. I'd walk up to my venue and there was just all these posters and it was like five stars, five stars. This is the thing now. This is it. This is now. This is stand up fucking hell. This is the thing. And then my poster, there's one poster that somebody written bus wankers on and that was and there was nothing on my I was like, I

was am I not get I was my assumption was if I am getting reviews I'm not being told what they are because they're keeping them from me or just no one's... and I didn't really want reviews. Well that's probably why you didn't get them. Did you maybe say don't... that you didn't want reviewers in? I think I said don't go out and court people to come. Right well that's probably why... that's probably why the reviews just scored Berswanka on your poster and then left. Yeah, they might have done. But as I found that stressful and I am, I do find Edinburgh just, I stayed in Glasgow, you see, so I stayed with my brother and he lives in Glasgow, so I used to get the train back. It was like treated like an office job. I'd go in,

do the show. Did you have your family with you as well? No, no, I never, I never have anyone. I'm just still like a schoolboy. I'm still treated like going to school. Like I get my bag, I go in. Like when I went to school, I didn't like, Oh, I need someone to like go in with me. Like I wasn't like, and and I do treat it as a sort of like I'll go in I'll be alone I'll do the terrible thing then I'll leave. So you've been doing stand-up yes and you're a dad? My dad yeah I have a two-year-old daughter and yeah And yeah, basically I just, it's like, it's really challenging, isn't it? It's just like, you don't, you're always shattered.

My attention span is dog shit. Just like, it's so, like you're meant to give your child an attention span. I don't have a fucking attention span. I do not have an attention span. Hers is miles better than mine. Miles better. Like we're supposed to be playing and I'm like going for my phone. What the fuck are you doing? Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. There are times I go to my brain, count to 10. Can you do 10 seconds? Can you do 10 seconds? You can't do 10? It's astonishing. It's astonishing. Like it's just, it's warned, there's nothing, there's nothing there.

There's bits of the day where I'm like, I genuinely haven't got an attention span. I think the other thing that's funny is that, is like the reading mindfulness advice off Instagram. And you're like, this is, well, this is the thing, isn't it? This is the problem. Like I go onto my phone to do stuff and- Do an, send an email. Yeah and send an email or something and then I look at Instagram for five minutes and then don't do the thing. I missed my bus stop yesterday because I was

looking at Instagram. That is pathetic. It is almost like that thing about is it worth being virtuous if no one knows about it because I think it was funny it is almost like that thing about is it worth being virtuous if no one knows about it? Because like, I think it was funny that you know that thing called raw docking that people were doing on planes? That's mad. I think it's fucking stupid. It was as soon as they've done it, they post about it on Instagram. They're not raw docking are they? Because they're filming it while they're doing it. I know, I know it's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. Well they're not raw docking. Don't tell anyone, then you've done it. If you've told

someone you haven't done it, You've just filmed the content. I actually sat next to a raw doggie on the way back from America. It was years ago, but now I look back and I think, oh, that's what he was doing. He was raw dogging. Yeah. Because he just sat next to me and didn't do anything from the moment the seatbelt sign went off. He just sat there and it was really, really disturbing.

I used to do something that I would call raw dogging, which was when I used to... I lived in Cambridge for a bit and I used to work, I say work, I used to work in London with Johnny and Simon. But we wouldn't, we went and sat in the Royal Festival Hall all day and we were writing and then I had to get the train back and I used to wait for the off pick. Quite a grand office space, isn't it? Yes, the Perth walls. We will meet in Trafalgar Square, we will write for eight hours.

Meet you next to the organ. It's quite weird, isn't it? Like, yeah, no, I don't know. I think, to be honest, it was actually just because you were allowed to be there for free. Like in the theatre space? No, kind of in the foyer. There's lots of... Yeah, I mean, you can be in the foyer of any building. No, but of in the foyer. There's lots of... Yeah, I mean you could be in the foyer of any building.

No, no, but we would, yeah. The thing is that we actually had access to the foyer. No, that's what I mean. It wasn't impressive at all. So you met up and you wrote in the foyer? We used to go there and then, I know it was, yeah. I think it was quite, in a way I think those spaces are, you know, quite valuable because you just, you could just be there all day free.

Yeah. And then I'd go and get the train home and. Back to Cambridge. Back to Cambridge. But I used to wait until the first off-peak train, which was like seven or something, but I'd often be there by like 6.15. And I used to just look at the clock and it would go like 16, 17, 18. And I wouldn't do anything else.

But that was because I would say I was mentally ill at that point. So I would say, so I would say raw dogging. Why are you doing that? Like that was raw dogging. Why are you doing that? Like that was raw dogging in a way, but I look back at that as like the lowest point of my life. So I don't know why you would want to, like don't get like food envy of mental illness. Like what are you talking about?

It is so extreme, isn't it? My thing is that I try and if I'm bored like stay bored like that's my I'm like I think boredom is what it really that if that's the thing you have to learn to live with I think if you want to do what people call mindfulness It is so hard like the discomf... I surrender, I find it quite hard to just go to the toilet without my phone like I genuinely find it quite hard to just go to the toilet without my phone. Like, I genuinely find it hard. Like, it's, the decision to not take the phone in

is like going in without armbands or something. It's ridiculous. I remember like, do you remember when we filmed the Inbetweeners movie, the first one? Yeah. We didn't have internet, we didn't have the wifi. There was no wifi. Oh yeah, I do remember that.

And it was like, cause it was It was like because it was 2011 yeah it was yeah and we sat in whatever those hotels were that were like really cheap shit hotels it was like yeah didn't have good internet yeah and we only had the phones that were supplied to us by production yeah and we could only call each other. That's right yeah they were like little knocky. That was the last time that I remember being like free of tech. And because I was sitting around doing nothing, just basically waiting for you guys to finish filming. I wrote a sitcom.

Yeah, that's my yeah. Because I was like bored. That's very productive. I mean, I wouldn't, I never do. There was no TV, there was just like Spanish television. Yeah. And no internet. And that was so good for me. I never haven't had I never managed to get Yeah, that is that is amazing. Is that I could have I suppose I could have just come down to set or something and hung out But no no, but I talked to say made no

Sets are so boring. I mean I can they're just, they are the most boring place. Even if you're in it, they're boring. Even if you're like, if you're one of the leads, it's quite boring. Just doing the same thing. And then from that down, it's unbelievable. Over and over again. I remember on the second one, they spent an entire day

trying to get a shot of us driving past the sunset and we just were at it all day. I mean it was just... But the sunset only happens... I know that was what was confusing but honestly I swear... For a 10 minute period. Oh yeah, that's a good point. It's weird that we were doing it all day. But then that was the thing, I genuinely did... maybe it felt like all day. But it was

... Yeah. Yeah. That is weird because it did genuinely seem like it was no but it probably what they probably probably wasn't a real sunset they were just putting some pink light it was a sky it was I think it was a corner it was coming around a corner on quad bikes no in the car in the car with the picture of them the Peter Andre car in the second I wasn't it I yeah I thought you were sorry I thought you were telling a story about when I was actually going to do it. I was trying to remember it. I wasn't there

That's why I can't remember it. Oh God, oh God Right, okay. There's so much to talk about and we will just talk about more but should we should we talk about your perfect day? Let's talk about my perfect day. Okay perfect day? Let's do it. Okay. Joe Thomas, JT, what's your perfect morning? Alright so this is gonna sound basically my perfect morning is just any morning where it's not my turn to get up with my daughter. Yeah.

And I mean, I didn't really realize, but it's so sad, once you have a child, it just becomes, it's a zero sum contest for sleep with your partner. Sleep vanishing from your life, running away through the floorboards is, yeah, it's just unbelievable. How do you guys do it? Do you do a night when you say it's not your turn? How do you manage

it? It's a shambles basically. Recently, we've been trying to both get up in the mornings. We've been trying to do that for about two days. And I don't know why, but for whatever reason that has already just stopped. Are you up through the night? You still at the, you still? No, well, no, our daughter is still in our bed. So like, so, so she's all the, all the way through the night. She's basically just like, yeah, basically if she wasn't a baby, she'd be doing what I would call sexual harassment to Hannah. So, so I mean, she's, we'll let it go for now. So Hannah's basically been up all night being kind of man-handled, baby-handled basically. So then she's shattered in the morning and

that's her chance. It's so dysfunctional. But I mean and but it's so normal I mean it's so normal to my birthday I it makes you feel like I haven't got any imagination but I think people don't having a baby's no real issue just don't have an imagination like no nobody who no nobody who doesn't have a baby has any semblance at all of an idea of what it's like to have a child like I mean I used to like this because I when you see the family with a child you see a family and you see them like walking down the street and the child's there you know oh that's like they're the same but there's a child I think the time is

so different that it's actually just a qualitatively different type of experience I think it's not even the same category of experience so like I think the whole point the family child is not that any single moment of it is difficult no single thing is difficult it It's actually easy. It's really easy. Like their games are well easy. Their puzzles are really easy. It's really, really simple stuff. And when you're doing it, I can do so. I can do that. I'm fucking good. I give it here. I'll read it. Yeah, I'll read upside down if you like No big deal. Yeah, and

but it's just the fact that you that it and you keep thinking it's gonna You keep thinking that at some point you'll get through it and it'll stop and in a way what you're looking at actually I don't mean to be Morbid but is actually death your own death because what you think is when this is finished it'll be ready for me to start thinking about the end of my life, like by the time I don't have a child in my life. And I think there's a really weird thing where you're like, it's like before you have a child it's like a minute, seconds ago you were like at a party and now you're like oh I'm not at that party anymore, now I'm in this room with this child, how

long am I going to be in here for? And then it's like 25 to 30 years? But I was just I was just there I was just I can I can still hear the party can I not go back and I know you can't but when can I go back we told you 25 to 30 years and you're like but I'll be like getting on for 70 but then you're like yeah you will be yeah yeah and then and then what yeah and that i think that's why i do think that's why that's why old people are mental it's why you used to look at you know your parents generation and be like they're weird aren't they and you know like in friday night dinner where like the dad's really weird and like prefers the company of like dead animals and broken fridges and mold to humans you can see why you can see why you go because he's had a bit weird because i think It's been 20 years of that. Yeah. I don't know what it's like for moms, but I feel

like dads are mourning their youth. Like it's actually it's an incredible grief that you're trying to process where you're like that's gone. And by the time you get it back you'll be fucking old. Genuinely just old. Not like 42, fucking old. Yeah. Like pension old. I'm going to say that I think it's going to be like less time than that before you get it back. I, well I mean I, me and my brothers were hanging around at home for ages. I think you're going to be alright. This is so negative as well towards my, I adore my daughter. I'm just, I'm, I, I, she's just that she makes you think about it's the

fact that they're so extraordinary they have to be that extraordinary to make up for what they are taking away it's a good job it's lucky they're cute it's lucky they're cute honestly yeah they are so cute yeah well we were talking about we're talking about mindfulness forget it mate fucking forget it are you fucking joking clear a space and clear some time. Are you fucking kidding me? You'll be writing that email in 45 seconds while she hasn't quite reached the top of the thing she's climbing. That's when you'll be writing that email. Are you fucking

joking? What, have a clear desk and sit down and have some time So you fucking kidding me so perfect morning then perfect morning. Yeah, okay Perfect morning is you've had a lion because it's not your turn. Yeah. Yeah I'd like to have my turn And I bet I think basically yeah, what happens next? So what happens next is you've had lots of sleep I've had lots of sleep. I've had lots of sleep. How much sleep have you had, Joe? I love sleep. I knew I was going to struggle having a child because, like, you know when those people

used to go, you know, you can have too much sleep, I'd be like, that is such bollocks. What? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? What? You can't. That's not, what is that even, I genuinely don't know what that means. I think that's, that's honestly, that's like those people say like, you know, you actually don't need food, you just need light. And you're like, no you don't. Like, it's like ludicrous.

So you've had the perfect amount of sleep. No such thing as too much. I suppose before I had a child I would sleep, I don't know, 10 or 11 hours late. It was wonderful. When was the last time you did that? Years ago? years ago. No because the thing is, no when I get to work that's the other thing about is that work becomes the holiday. I mean it really is a holiday. I think I would say that even if I was a prison officer. Yeah yeah I know I see yes no yeah no totally it's I it's. I've watched police dramas and seen the prisoner get jailed in a jail cell and get thrown in a cell with a cold metal bed and felt jealous. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know. I thought that looks great. They're not going to be disturbed all night. They're not going to be disturbed. They're all

by themselves. How lovely. How do I get arrested? What do I need to do? I know, I know. The thing is, again, I do think it is, How do I get arrested? Things again, I do think is it's it's easier for Me obviously because Hannah was breastfeeding for a long time because I was I think I think this is a Drum that quite a few people been bang recently, but like society doesn't really Cater for the fact that people need to have children. It doesn't really like restaurants are pissed off like that. It's treated as though you've you've kind of bought a pet that you didn't really need to get. But you know, by the way, if we don't have any more children we can't have an economy. So this isn't just some

selfish thing that people are doing, some self-indulgent thing. You need to have you need to have new people. I would have thought this is fairly obvious. You know that people die. You know that the old people, they'll all die. We need to replace the people. The ones who are dying. They get older. And so but it's as though it's just not it's like and so as a result of that I think you almost try and you try and imply that you haven't had children really you can still keep up appearances at work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's this thing that you're trying to keep secret. Yes, yeah.

At times it felt like having a really, really expensive and all-consuming heroin habit, where like, so from like 7am in the morning till like 9.30pm at night, you're basically like on the smack. And then you kind of come out of it and you're like, oh, should I try and do some work now? Like when you're fucking frazzled, where like it takes all the bits of the day where you might most productively work are gone. Like the first, the first, anyway this is terrible because I'm just basically saying that it's awful and it's not awful like it's amazing but I do think that it could be, it's treated as though it's getting in the way of... Yeah absolutely is because it does get in the way of capitalism. It gets in the way

of economically productive activity, but the children are the ones who will be doing the economically productive activity when they are older and they'll do it better if they've been well-parented. Looking after children, it costs a lot of money. It doesn't make any money. Looking after children doesn't make any money, which is why it's a thing that doesn't really exist.

Exactly, that's why it's hard to pay for hospitals, because it's hard for hospitals to make money. Looking after children doesn't make any money, which is why it's a thing that doesn't really exist. Exactly. That's why it's hard to pay for hospitals because it's hard for hospitals to make money because ill people don't make a profit. Yeah, but that is the reason. And it's like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, we're going to have to pay for them. Yeah, sorry. Do you like people or do you like money? Which one is it? I mean, anyway, so it's a perfect morning. So I'm a loads of sleep. Basically, mornings are always great because I love coffee. Yeah, so you've got A great coffee on the go then that's all you need

Sleep coffee is that all you need in your perfect morning? Should we should things that probably if it is probably just that probably just is all I need because they because by the way There's my perfect morning only lasts about half an hour because I'm getting up at about 11. OK. The morning. So I mean, I suppose who the morning is, and we'll come on to my thoughts about the afternoon, which I'm not a massive fan of either. But like the morning, I feel like you should really be asleep.

I'm not. I mean, I've tried to be a morning person. I get it to a certain extent. So now I'm up all the time. But the thing is at the moment- And do you work in the mornings? Well, no, because you can't. That's the thing is like, there's this huge irony. Now I do get up early, but I can't do anything

because I'm taking care of- So you're like a proper stay at home dad then? Yeah, well, we're both kind of quite stay at home. I mean, yeah. Stay at home parents. No, like we do have, to be fair, we do have some childcare as well well but it took us quite a long time to get that organised. Honestly if I was going to say the lifestyle you need if you want to have a child I would say it would really suit a retired person. If you

want to give birth to a child it would really suit somebody who is about 69. You've got full day you want something challenging, it's very challenging, it's very rewarding, it takes up all your fucking time and it's expensive, it really suits like a boomer, like a baby boomer. Like that's the age at which you should give birth basically to a child, about 70. Like you want something you've, like that's, they don't, they do not go together. The working age professional and the baby do not go together. They do not go together. They don't. There's not, there's a fucking disaster. It's a fucking disaster. It's a fucking disaster. Honestly, it's a disaster. I'd say you'd be better off. And it's so

funny because I'd say it'd be better off. You'd better have your children really early even when the grandparents are still pretty young. Come on, let's go. Is there anything else or should we move on to the next afternoon? No, the morning's over. It's sleep and coffee. Okay, sleep and coffee. Great. Let's have a perfect afternoon. Okay, no, listen, I don't really like afternoons. I think no way you're kidding. Why? No, okay. I don't know. Children. No. Okay, so my I've never liked afternoons because I think I like when the day is beginning and I like when the day is ending. I don't know. It's got to do with children. No, okay, so I've never liked afternoons because I think I like when the day's beginning and

I like when the day's ending. I don't like it when you're just looking at the fucking state of things. And you know when it's about 3pm and you're just like, this is it, isn't it? That's the work I've done. I know what you mean. That's my work. There's nowhere to hide. That's what you want to show off yourself.

The morning is like maybe it'll be better. The evening is like maybe it'll be better tomorrow. 3pm, you're like, look at the fucking state of this. Look at what, look at this, look at what I've managed to do today and like the sun's out, everything's ready for you to work and you're like well I don't want to do it. Like that's, that's the afternoon to me. So I wouldn't really have the afternoon. What I like about the afternoon is when you come in and maybe it's like raining and you're like I'll just stay in and then you realize there's a Six Nations game on and then you can just watch the rugby. I like watching rugby and then when that game's over they're like there's another one on if you fancy it and you're like

I certainly do fancy it yeah I watched that one as well. So you've woken up late, you've had some coffee. I've maybe gone somewhere, I don't know, I've gone out somewhere, it doesn't even matter where. Maybe to the river, gone to the river, Thames and then I come back and it's raining I'll just stay in now and then and then and then it's like oh I forgot it's the Six Nations and it's that night I like I like rugby and this is quite depressing and this is the worst perfect day. I can't think of anything I just I don't I can't

say so maybe so I come here it's raining a bit and I'm like artists leave it now and it's gonna sack the day off and and I'd probably have a funny. I'm gonna have fires anymore, but like I'd probably have a fire in in your house Just not in life. Are you men are like you shouldn't burn stuff anymore. It's bad. Oh right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I know it's bad planet. Yeah yeah. Fact. But I do it do you do it? I've got a log burner I'll be honest. Sometimes I do I don't know what to tell you I do sometimes yeah because I just sometimes just. Well it's you could bend it slightly so that it isn't causing harm to the environment.

You could bend it. You could. Yeah. Or you could. You know, put the radiators on the radio, turn the radio or sign up to a conspiracy theory where it will just go, oh, it's all made up. It's not made up. It'd be nice if it was. Yeah, it'd be nice if it was. It's not. I can see why you understand why this is appealing to you, because it'd be nice if we could. It'd be nice if it was. It's not. I can see why you're, I understand why this is appealing to you.

Because it'd be nice if we could go around doing the same stuff. It'd be nice if it was all made up. It's not. It's not. But it'd be nice if it was, but it's not. But it'd be nice if it was. But it's not.

But it's not. Anyway, and that's that. That's the afternoon. So that's the afternoon. So just me washing rugby. In the rain. And fire on. Fire on. Or not. So that's the afternoon, just me washing rugby. In the rain. And fire on.

Fire on. Or not. Cup of tea. What tea are you drinking? Just a normal cup of tea? I think tea. Have you had anything to eat at all? Do I eat?

I do eat, yeah. I like, what would I eat? I don't okay another thing I don't like lunch I don't like stopping for lunch I to me I think food is... stopping what? stopping what? Well work I suppose I mean I think I'm I don't really like looking at just the face of the day the afternoon where it's that kind of plateau of the day where you're like, it's not beginning, it's not ending. It's just, and to eat then feels mental to me. I just, I, I, I You don't eat lunch because it feels mental.

I don't like eating lunch. Because it feels mental and it makes you think about the day. Yeah, I think so Yeah, I don't I like to get I like for to me food is either a thing food is either like I Just have to get myself going. That's the morning. Yeah, and the end of the day is a reward essentially the end of the day is I might never eat again, so Just eat as much as you can.

What if you're hungry? If I'm hungry I will eat, yeah, I will eat, yeah. It's a good note, yeah. They wouldn't be any more perfect because of the food. Right, so under normal circumstances, how's your afternoon looking? Is that when you work, because you said you don't like the mornings when do you like get your when do you write your standard when do i get stuff done yeah question yeah i'm curious if you have any i write i write i write in fits and starts i think but it's not

do you write do you write and you sit down in a notebook do you go to the foyer of a of a well i think what i did i think essentially this is going gonna sound like I'm just making excuses for myself. I think I'm kind of always thinking about it and then things kind of finally crystallize and then I can write them down, but I think I am always Which is quite comforting really isn't it because even when you think you're not doing anything you are always doing something Yeah, I think my I think my head is basically like you are always doing something. Yeah. I think my head is basically like, it's basically like,

I'd call it like one big reassurance engine, where it's kind of like, you know in cartoons, when, I don't know, like when you see a computer in a cartoon, like in a cartoon from like the 60s, the computer would be a big gigantic box, and they'd put all the data in at one end, and then this thing would come out the other end, like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da,

ticker tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My brain's like that, so I put all the data in at one end and then this thing would come out the other end like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah my brains like that so I put all the data in and then this thing comes out and basically it's either like a tick like a green tick or a red cross that's my brain so it's like everything's connected and all of it is basically just boiling down to one of two outcomes which is basically everything's okay or everything's not okay. Basically I'm very very prone to thinking I'm thinking all these things at the moment and no one else has ever thought them and they're wrong because no because I can't see that anyone else has thought them or no I think more that I think I won't be able to communicate than to anyone else because I don't know, I don't know.

But yeah, I think I, yeah, there's always been this sense of like, like an internal, there's an internal story and then there's an external story. And it took me a long time to recognise that my internal story might be the same as other people's internal stories, I think. That's what I mean, I think.

So do you mean that you kept your story to yourself? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. All the stuff that I was like, this is silly, but like, when I was a teenager, I was always thinking about AI just all the time. I was constantly and I was like, I can't say nothing about this.

I think I'm fucking mental. And now it's like fucking everywhere. Everyone's talking about AI all the time. And I was like, yeah, I know, I know, I know, yeah. But like- Catch up, guys. Yeah, in a way, yeah. But like, I think, but it was so odd.

I was like, I was always worried about it at school and people would be like, are you all right? And I'd be like, oh, just, and they'd be like, what are you worried about? I'd be like, I just- Thinking about AI again. I'll be like I just... Thinking about AI again. I can't, I can't I genuinely, I could genuinely, I spoke, it reminds me literally the singularity

but I mean do you know what that is? So I just, I don't know I can't. I think I always had a tendency to be like if I had an idea that I thought was powerful I'd always be like I need to shut this down, I need to not tell people this because it will freak them out. Whereas I think another sort of person would have said I need to share this. I'm brilliant and I must share it. Yeah. I must share this. But it's a sort of self-esteem thing I suppose in a way isn't it? Thinking that your thoughts are worth sharing. I think so yeah. I think it's often quite likely that the things that are most fundamental to you are also going to be the things that are most fundamental to you

are also going to be the things that are most hard to share. I think those things often, I can't really think about why, but other than a kind of a sense of depth, I feel like if something is deep within you, it feels as though to get it out, you're kind of going, oh, there it is. There's the thing that's right at the bottom of everything.

There it is. So it's not even that you can just kind of blurt it out. It takes time to muddle through the thoughts and the feelings about it. Completely. And we don't operate in that kind of a world, do we? It takes a long time to form an opinion. It should take a long time to form an opinion. It does take a long time to form it. It does. But we're surrounded by people who seem to have a lot of conviction very quickly. Yeah, we, yeah, I know.

And it's hard to keep up with them, I find. Yeah, no, it's amazing. I don't, it's staggering how much conviction people have and yet how fucked everything is. Yeah. You're like, why is this stuff not better? Because it's, because people aren't comfortable. Because people aren't comfortable sitting in the feeling

of the difficulty and the boredom and the focus and that feeling of dragging it up from the depths is a really uncomfortable feeling. And we can't even be alone for five minutes without our headphones. We're all fucked, aren't we? Do you have a... I suppose,. I did think of another thing for the afternoon. Yes please. Which I do, which actually is something I'm doing this year. Yeah? Which is, I think quite a good thing to do in the afternoon is just to kind of go outside and run around. So we do a

thing every year with me and my friends called the Christmas Kick Around. This is basically a group of friends from school and we play a game every year, a football match in Chelmsford, which is our hometown. And it's quite good because first of all, it's like watching the sort of, it's a good study in like physical decline so it's so like it's your wide light i really like to see a time lapse of just of just the kind of the guts forming and like the hairlines receding and it's that thing about there's something so joyful about a load of quite lumpy blokes thundering around a pitch, playing just a completely inefficient game of football

in the mud. I just think there's something. Is this just an annual Christmas? It's just an annual thing. I can relate to that, because we have a ladies rounders match and there's a lot of pelvic floor issues when you're doing your rounder. Yeah, yeah, no, it's that basically.

So would you add a kick around? Yeah, I guess I would. It'd be that followed by the rugby, I suppose. But these two afternoons don't go together but like but this is what I also know but this is we play it pretty much on like We play it on like pretty much the shortest day of the year I think it's the 21st of December right the winter solstice of course and of course Of course we all know that's the winter so I don't know why you don't call it solstice soccer Why do we not call it solstice soccer and you know, you know, I love a solstice, always have, always will. And it's, and I tell you, I also have solstices, groups of lads. And

so it's based in there's all the solstice banter and and yeah, so loads of solstice stuff, solstice, solst sausage, and Shortest Day and all that, Tilt of the Earth and all that. And it's nice because we start pretty much as soon as you can get out of the breakfast and then we play more or less until the sun starts going down. Really? It's a long kick about. It's a long time, I tell you it's good, but it's good because it's like, I don't know, it's nice to finish when it

gets dark. This is about a six hour football match. It's massive, yeah. For a little while our mums and dads used to come and bring us the orange segments because they're nice as well because they don't really do anything at all. But it's a nice feeling but it's a nice feeling. It feels quite World War I as well. It feels quite sort of like an orange. Yeah and I bet you feel part of an orange. Just a small amount.

We've got a whole orange. I've got access to many many whole oranges at home. No, no, just a part of it. Just a part. Just about you can do the mouth thing where you go, oh look I've got some orange teeth. You know, that's always good. You've got to do that as well. Do you eat the pith? I always do. You peel it all. Yeah, no, I eat all the pith. I often will go into the pith as well, like even when there's only pith left. And because

you're just really hungry, it's not enough. Well, you're just kind of like mind sweeping everyone else's pith. I wouldn't eat other people's pith. I think that's really, that's the bottom of a barrel I've yet to scrape. Bring other people's pith. You need to be. You need to bring a sandwich. You need to really, yeah. Because, so for a while, but yeah, but that would be the only refreshment. And then it was really good because you get to, by the end of the game, you're getting those goals where by the end of the game you're getting those goals where it's like if if a man can still run he will score a goal because it's people just they're getting

very tired by that point and I think there's also I quite like I like that length famously I think by this point I like the morning and I like that length, famously, I think by this point, I like the morning and I like the evening. And I like that length of day, because you're not bothering too much with that bit in the middle. Like it's basically, the day is over by about four. Right. And you're like, that's about as long as a day.

Should be, yeah. I don't think you need. So you're saying your perfect day would be a winter's day? I think it is a winter's day. Where it's... We've had a short morning. We're narrowing into it. We're... yeah.

So the perfect... your perfect day is that there isn't much of it. There isn't much of it. No, I'm not... no, I don't think... no, I like being asleep. Not having any lunch. Not having any lunch. I like... yeah. And then the sun goes down. Then the sun goes down. After some football and watching some rugby.

Watching some rugby, yeah. There are two things that I... almost the only thing I can think of that fits on an afternoon is watching Six Nations or that particular football game. I can't really think of anything else. There's no other point where I'm like, I'm glad it's the afternoon. Most of the times when it's like two or three, I'm like, I wish it wasn't this time.

I just want this time to be over. Because it's like, you're just, here you are. There's nothing about, it's just, it's not, there's no, you're not, you're not in like, you're not in the morning of your life. Oh my God, Joe, this is so profound. We're in the afternoon of our life. What time is it do you think? It's about 2.30 p.m.

It's funny, I think it's not even interestingly late. It's just not even, I think there's a thing about youth, I think about youth recently recently and lots of things if you add them to youth they suddenly become quite good like I know like being parallettely drunk plus youth pretty good that's all right so just being a general shit show plus youth oh it's fine. That's good, it's kind of sexy. Like being poor, plus youth, great, that's all right. You're like a revolutionary, it's brilliant. None of that works with 40, nothing works with 40.

40 needs to be helped. 40 is a negative, 40 needs to have something actively positive added to it. So it's like, despite the fact that you're 40, here's this, lack of productivity plus youth, fine. The world doesn't understand you. You haven't got any work done, but you're young, it's fine. It's because it's their fault, it's the world's fault.

You haven't got any work done and you're 40, that's your fault. Would you say that you're having a midlife crisis? I don't think I'm having a midlife crisis because I think I know what's happening. I think I know, I just, I don't know how you're not supposed to have a midlife crisis. I don't, I think, I think if your eyes are open, you should be having a midlife crisis. I think the problem for me is that basically, obviously what I've arrived in middle age with is lots of memories of being young. And I had a kind of extended youth really, because I played all these young characters.

So like, I played a school boy and then a student. I was a school boy, then I was a university student, then I played a school boy, then I played a university student. I played a couple of parts as adults, but like really my thirties, I was still basically, they were more like, they were more like my twenties. And now I'm 40, I feel like I'm doing the stuff I should have done when I was 30. and I'm trying to do all of it.

Like I'm working really hard at the moment, my God. Like when you have to eke out like two hours so you can do some work. Yeah, but that can be quite helpful though as well, don't you find that sometimes- I'm much more efficient, miles more efficient. You can't be not efficient if you, you can't, I mean, in a way it's an amazing-

There's always a deadline. There's always, yeah. Every day. Yeah. And then when they go to school, which is where I am, the working day finishes at 3 p.m., sometimes 2.30. Your favorite time. Oh, God. The working day finishes at 40 years old. Joe, we've run out of time and we haven't got onto your perfect

evening. Would you be willing to come back? Yeah, of course I will. Because this also has happened with... I'm so sorry that I've just... No, no, no. It's happened with people before and... You're really easy to talk to. And I think everyone is probably just a little bit short of therapy. So like you'll... But I think... I know I'm aware you're probably being slightly used as a therapist. But I hope you're not that funny in therapy because she'll...

No, I had to... Okay, we'll tell you what. I have... Yeah, they don't like you being funny in therapy. They don't No, I've had to... Okay, we'll tell you what. I've... Yeah, they don't like you being funny in therapy. They don't like you being funny. They don't like it at all. They don't, do they? Because why don't they like it?

Because you're performing, you're not being real or something. Because it's a defence mechanism. There was one thing I said in therapy that my last therapist said was really funny, and I said, I heard a story about they found a really, really old second world war Japanese soldier on an island on his own in about 1990. And he was still fighting the second world war. He said, I haven't surrendered.

I haven't surrendered to the allies. And I said, my dad's like that with like sort of 1960 socialism essentially. and she absolutely loved that she brought it up every week and I was like it's a bit harsh on my dad, I really like my dad but like she was like oh I'm just thinking about that. She's thinking about your world war 2 joke. She cut into what I was trying to say, sorry wasn't, I was just thinking about that. I was just thinking about your dad bit, the dad on the island bit. She was like, such a good metaphor. I was like, yeah, I get it. I like my answer, regret saying it because you keep bringing it up and...

I'm supposed to be doing my therapy. Joe, last question and then we'll have you back on to talk about your night another time if we may. Maybe live. I'll do it live. We'll do it live from the set of the Inbetweeners movie through. What is... So we're just doing a final question which is getting a recommendation on something that you've enjoyed this week like a book or a film or a food.

Oh right, yeah. Probably not a food in your case but what's a piece of perfection, Joe, that you'd recommend this week? Listen to... it's another podcast. Listen to the history of ideas. It's alright, it's not. Oh, the history of ideas. This is politics. They're just, they're amazing. They're just, they're basically a lecture. And I... when I was at, I had to do a paper called The History of Political Thought, and I was fucking shit at it because I didn't know what I was supposed to do.

And so I'd do like a week on Hume, and I'd be like, well, Hume says this, and then my supervisor would go, why was he saying that, though? And I'd be like, what do you mean why? That's why he said it. Because he wrote it in his little book. That's... What? And they were like, yeah, but what about where? Because he wrote it in his little book. That's what? And they were like, yeah, but what about where?

Because he got a book, do you? But it was like, yeah, but they were like, where about where he was living? Or do you? Context. Or like context, basically. Or like, do you think he was right? And I'd be like, what?

I don't care, yeah, probably. I mean, I'm not going to do better than him, if that's what you mean. Like, yeah, they seem to be saying, do you agree with him? And if you don't agree, do you think, why don't you agree? And I'll be like, I'm not gonna fucking

go up against David Hume. Of course I agree. I agree with all of it. Do you know what I mean? One of the greatest thinkers of our time? Yeah, but it'd be like, just because I... Because I... But that is what you were supposed to be doing.

On this thing, the first one was about Hobbes. And Hobbes has an idea about the Leviathan. And basically it's because... And the Leviathan is basically the idea of the modern state, where it's unbelievably powerful, like it can kill you. But it actually keeps you safe because it can also kill your enemy. So it's like it's not that you have any equality between you and the other people you live with, it's just that you can all mutually be killed by this thing that's all powerful.

Basically that was written during the English Civil War where it seems as though there might never be peace again and it just seemed as though everything might just be torn asunder. So in that context having something that is incredibly powerful is a compromise that's worth doing because you're other than that. And basically that is the history of legal thought is because of the context he was living in that he wrote the idea that he did. So you see what I mean? And when I listened to that, I was like, Oh, that's what I was supposed to be doing. That's what I was supposed to do at university. And I realised that about 15 years after I'd left. And it was because I listened to that podcast and that's why I like podcasts and that's why

I like that particular series. Joe Thomas, thank you so much for having us, it's a perfect day. Oh no, I feel like I've really... We've run out of time. I can't believe it. We've run out of time but I... No you really did, you gave us so much good stuff and we'd love to have you back on and thank you so much and God do you want to see it? Oh my god. Yeah get your notes out Imagine if it's like all these really elaborate But all that. Oh, no, actually I did have a three course lunch.

Right, Joe's gonna read out his list. Any day where I don't have to get up. Zero-sum sleep competition with your partner. Now we're both trying to get up but Hannah doesn't have to quote if she hasn't slept well. I have written a significant caveat. I mean no one one's that well, Hannah. That changes everything. That's what I'm saying, you've got to obey the law, but not if you don't feel like it. A significant caveat. Then the single word coffee. Six Nations. I put about something about watching sport on television.

Running where I don't have to run. Oh yeah, I love watching a marathon and thinking they look fucking shattered and I'm not doing it. Oh yeah, actually I should have told this story, this was a good story. Do you want to hear my Super Saturday story? I just don't think we've got to. Yeah, I'll save that. I should have looked at the list. You should have referred to the notes. I don't know why I didn't.

I'm just going to say the last word on my list of notes about this podcast is the word podcast. Well, we did. We covered that. We covered that. Do the podcast. Bye, Joe. Bye.

Yeah, told you, didn't I? Wake up, coffee, walk in the rain to the Thames, home to contemplate life in the dark, in front of the telly, skip lunch because it's awful, and worsen global warming and… well, who knows, because we didn't get any further, did we? But I suppose we'll find out when Joe comes back, whether his day gets any better. I mean you'd hope so wouldn't you? Thank you so much Joe. What an absolutely relentlessly funny man. I love him so much and I hope he knows how funny he was even though he was also very depressed. Sorry for laughing. I'm not laughing in the face of your depression but I am laughing at his take on life, which is hilarious. And again,

I'm really sorry that we didn't manage to get it all done in time. But you know, he loves a long chat. I didn't interrupt him enough. Thanks so much for listening. We have many episodes coming up, including the Drifter's Christmas Special. They're back. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm quite scared. So like and subscribe, leave us a review and follow us on our Perfect Day cast for all your Perfect Day news. From Yorkshire with love, I'm Jessica Knappett, wishing you a perfect day. Hello, I'm Rachel Fairburn from Old Killern Old Filler. And I'm Paul McCaffrey from What's Upset You Now, and we'd like to tell you all about our brand new podcast, Glad Rags. Every week we have a guest from the world of entertainment and design their perfect

night out. Where are you going? What year is it? What are you wearing? What are you listening to? And most importantly... Can we come? Where are you wearing? What are you listening to? And most importantly... Can we come? Where would you go, Paul?

Do you know what? I'd go anywhere in 1995. I don't care where it is. I think 1995 was the peak of all human existence. The clothes, the music, everything. What would you listen to? Well, I'll be honest, if I'm in a good mood, it's an Oasis playlist. If I'm in a bad mood...

It's an Oasis playlist. Absolutely. Come and join us wherever you get your podcasts for the best night out of your life. I'm Max Rushton. I'm David O'Doherty. And we'd like to invite you to our new podcast, What Did You Do Yesterday? It's a show that asks guests the big question, quite literally, What did you do yesterday? That's it. That is it Max I'm still not sure where do we put the stress? Is it? What did you do yesterday?

What did you do yesterday? You know what I mean? What did you do yesterday? I'm really downplaying it like what did you do yesterday? Like I'm just I'm just a guy just asking a question But do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Like, I'm just, I'm just a guy just asking a question. But do you think I should go bigger? What did you do yesterday? What did you do yesterday? Every single word this time, I'm going to try and make it like it is the killer word. What did you do yesterday? Like, that's too much, isn't it?

That is, that's over the top. What did you do yesterday? Available wherever you get your podcasts every Sunday.