Perfect Day with Jessica Knappett - EP24: India Rakusen

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Jessica Knappett is joined this week by the brilliant journalist, documentary producer and presenter, India Rakusen to discuss her perfect day. The pair delve into India’s impressive back catalogue, and discuss hormones, seasons, witches, eggs, terry’s chocolate oranges, surfing, life drawing and going clubbing. Like and subscribe for brand-new episodes every Thursday. Follow us on Instagram @perfectdaycast. And, why not get in touch? Email us at [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The all-new FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino is bringing you more action than ever. Want more ways to follow your faves? Check out our new player prop tracking with real-time notifications. Or have out more ways to customize your casino page with our new favorite and recently played games tabs. And to top it all off, quick and secure withdrawals. Get more everything with FanDuel Sportsbook and Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600. Visit connectsontario.ca All right then. I've had some periods. Hello Perfect Dayers, welcome to Perfect Day. I'm Jessica Knappett and you are an absolute

piece of work. Happy New Year. Boy have we got a cracker of an episode to kick off 2025. Our guest today is the brilliant journalist, documentary producer and presenter, India Rackerson. She joined us to tell us all about her gorgeous perfect day and she really approached it with the same sort of forensic detail that she approached with her documentaries and I loved it. She's thought about everything,ones, seasons, just everything you'd expect from a brilliant storyteller such as herself. So we discuss witches, because that is closely connected with India's brilliant work. We talk about eggs, Terry's chocolate oranges, surfing, life drawing and clubbing. And I

try really hard to make her my new best friend. And I'll report back on whether or not I've been successful in towards the middle to the end of 2025. Settle in guys. This is India Rackerson's perfect day. Do you know what would be my perfect day actually? You can make this happen right now if Martin Lewis comes in here and gives us 10 minutes on pensions. All right then. Are you talking about the fact that you... yeah of course you are. Yeah, what my baby? Yeah, it was a big part of child. I love him a lot as well.

So we've just met India's amazing baby and so we've just immediately started talking about you know motherhood obviously. And if you don't know India's work this is how I came to her through her amazing podcast series. She's a presenter and a producer and she tells gorgeous stories and explores interesting, feminine territory like motherhood and periods and witchcraft. The big three. The big three as we call them. The femtriptic.

And they are, I implore you, if you haven't been on The Journeys to check out her documentary series on BBC Sounds. And also, not only if you're a woman, if you know any women or if you're vaguely interested in the feminine experience, get yourselves over to those podcasts because they are so fascinating. And I love, they're so tender and they're so interesting. And the music, they're beautiful and you have such a lovely voice. Oh, thanks.

And they're also cut like funny. I wrote down this, I wrote down my favourite line from this episode that I was listening to of Witch. It starts with India saying the line, I'm walking along a riverbank holding a potato and talking to a witch called Gary. Do you know what, when I wrote that I was like, that's it. That is the peak of my career. That's the best writing I have ever done. I was very pleased with that. Did she? Very pleased with Gary. Oh my god, I'm not surprised. I was pleased with Gary.

I love, also I loved Gary because Gary was like, I operate in a matriarchy and I'm happy. Yeah, I know. That made me cry. He was like, how can I make that work for me? Gary! Gary, tell the rest. Tell the rest of them. He's an absolutely cracking elder.

Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, he's lovely. So talk to me about Witch a bit because I loved it. That's how I found you because I was fascinated by that series and then I stalked you on social media. That's how friendships go. That's how I found you, because I was fascinated by that series and then I stalked you on social media. That's how friendships are made.

And also I was hoping that you'd still lived in Yorkshire because you're a Yorkshire lass. I am a Yorkshire lass, yes I am and I don't. Maybe we could be best friends and I can delve into my witchcraft journey with India Ruckerson in Yorkshire, but you don't, you live in London. Yeah. But that's okay because we're here now. It does annoy me that I live in London, but what can you do? Move back to Yorkshire is what you can do. Yeah, it's true.

Move back to Yorkshire. Where I live. But yeah, tell me about, like, how do you begin with these journeys? So let's take the witch, the witch documentary series for instance. Like, how did you have you, is it something you've always been interested in? How did it begin? I, I think, is it weird to say they just sort of plop into your head? Is that unhelpful? No, it's not. I don't know if that's really unhelpful for people like, yeah, how do you come up with these ideas? These ideas. Definitely 28-ish days later, and with witch, I was just, I've always been kind of interested in witchcraft. And then I think in lockdown, I was, there

was so much madness going on in the world. And I was just desperate to make some sort of sense of it. And nothing around me gave the opportunity for that. There was like, yeah, we had like Zoom quizzes every Thursday or whatever. But that was kind of awful, as close as we kind of got to any sense of a ritual or any sense of kind of being able to make sense of this absolute chaotic nonsense going on around. And I genuinely felt like I wanted to sort of dig around in the dirt or like pick berries off trees and I didn't know why. I was like becoming a squirrel. I think a lot of people felt like that, didn't they? They wanted to garden and make bread and we all did go back to some kind of primal ritual thing. Yeah. And I just started reading

some books on witchcraft and I realised there were loads of witches out there which I hadn't really thought about and considered. And then I started chatting to some, just like messaging them going, oh hey, so I'm just really curious and just chatting to them. What do you mean you're a witch? Yeah, what does that actually mean? But what does that actually mean to you? And they just all made loads of sense. It was all about them kind of, mostly, they were all talking about looking after their own mental health,

being back in touch with nature and the planet that is collapsing. Heather Hyslop Community. Heather Vickery Community, exactly. Connection to people, having strength in your own conviction and your own sort of, like, just being confidence, I think. A lot of them found their witchcraft was really crucial to their own sort of like just being confidence, I think a lot of them found their witchcraft was really crucial to their own sort of inner sense of self and confidence. And I was like, that's cool. Yeah. And it was really interesting as well. The I like the ritualistic aspect of it because it kind of connects with this show. Because what I'm interested in is the little things

that we do daily or not, but the things that matter to us. And they often are communal things or semi-ritualistic things. And yeah, it feels to me like there's something, I don't know why I've responded so much to your work, but it feels to me like you're just so in tune with something that is so sort of innately human, but also feminine, but not to exclude men. I think- But it just feels very feminine. Do you know what I mean by that? I think what it is, is it's just accepting there are different ways of thinking. And I think we do live in a very

male thinking world. You know, our rhythms work on a circadian rhythm, which is much more male body driven, testosterone works on a 24 hour cycle, whereas the female cycle is months, you know, a month, not months, well, can be months, can be months long. But like, you know, we work in a really different way. And also with witchcraft, it's just thinking, it's just the ability to think in a different way and to accept that that could be a really good idea, you know, rather than sort of traditional ways of thinking. So if you think about cooking or these little daily things that you do that could be counted as a ritual. But we maybe like dismiss them because they're things that women traditionally have done, you know, like the cooking, the mending of something, the planting of a seed, the growing of a, you know, the nurturing of a child, all of that is kind of like the realm of women and therefore kind of has been a bit

meaningless. I think that's why I was like, yeah, magic is worth exploring because magic essentially is just a really different way of looking at the world and believing in how the world works. And what's wrong with that? We don't know everything about the world. You know, there are scientists and philosophers who explore the concept of magic because it does tie in with these unknown... Yes, and mystery is a good thing. Mystery is a great thing. It's a great place to be in. Yeah. I really feel like we're all grasping for answers all the time but if we made peace with living in the mystery we'd be happier. Agreed. Let's crack on. I'm desperate to hear you perfect day and we'll talk about all sorts of other things along the way as we always do. Indira Akkisson, please tell me what is your perfect morning? So I'm going to have to set the scene first. There are some things I require as the sort

of chemistry for this perfect day. Yes. The first is that I have slept because at the moment I do not sleep. I've got a four month old baby and he's great. He's really cute. He's very cute. Thank God. Thank God because he wakes up all the time and I don't get much sleep. Are you, so you're up all night like every two hours? Yeah, maybe every hour, every two hours. How are you doing this? I don't know, you just kind of keep going. I don't look fresh though, do I? You do look great. I just like it.

But like you look happy. I feel rich. Do you know what? I feel really happy. I feel so, so happy, but I'm utterly exhausted and that's fine. So I've slept and I've had like one of those sleeps that's like dribbled, like you know when you're like dribbled and you're stuck to your pillow and I haven't had, it's so deep, I haven't had any dreams.

Okay. Yeah. The other thing that's really important is that I'm like day 10 of my cycle. Okay. So I've got a lot of estrogen going. Spring. But not too, exactly, not too much. So I've bit too much estrogen, I'm quite mad. I'm quite sensitive to all stimuli.

So like booze, etc. You're quite sensitive on the whole or just like things affect me, estrogen, booze, biscuits, sugar. You must have become aware of this by focusing and tuning in. Yes. To your cycle. Yeah. And if you listen to India's podcast, you'll know why. But did you, were you always like that? That's not why I didn't put this in as a plug, but I genuinely like- Were you always like that? Were you always that in tune with it? No, the difference in my mood between like that part of my cycle and then when I'm on my period is quite stark. Is it? Yeah. And I think that's

probably the case. That's what I loved about listening to that. I know we keep talking about it, but it is so interesting. The bit that I loved to hear about was that you basically sort of biologically get lower self-esteem. Yeah. And it makes so much sense. That's when you start doubting yourself and in that sort of PMT in the week leading up, so when you start thinking that all your ideas are a bit rubbish and why did you ever think you could do that anyway and all of that. Which is dreadful when you work in ideas. Isn't it? Imagine how many ideas get binned on day 27 of your cycle. Oh no, actually, what was I thinking? How dare I think these thoughts? Put them in the bin.

So I'd quite like to be in day 10's really nice place. Yeah. Sort of feeling like more energetic, more positive, bit of a spring in the step. But on like, if it's day 40, if it's the day of ovulation, it's a bit, it's a bit, I'm a bit much. Are you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is, I love the spec, we haven't had anyone on who specified the day of their period yet, which is fantastic, the day of their cycle.

So day 10, lots of sleep, draw on the pillow. What's next? It's going to be spring. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a spring morning. I love spring. I don't want it to stay spring all day. Is that okay? That's absolutely fine. Fine good we're going to move some seasons

but that's fine isn't it? That's how a perfect thing works. Okay good. It's a spring morning. What's lovelier than a spring morning? We've got we've got daffs. Yeah. All the spring flowers. That like smell. I like springy smells sort of like the sound of spring, like a bit of bird, quiet, calm, it's spring. And I wake up in bed with my husband, I like him a lot, Mark. He's a nice guy. But briefly, it's going to be brief. The boys are going to come in. I really love my boys. That's really nice. I love it when we're all in bed together and things are nice. Yeah, and everyone's behaving themselves. Yeah. And the eldest likes to make something

called a shut rocket, where we just surround ourselves with pillows and it's got, it's a shut rocket because it's got a door. It's like the specification is that it has a door. So we'll probably all wake up and make a shut rocket. Oh, that's so sweet. Which would be really nice. And then go to like, he likes to go to all all of the planets, pretty much one by one, maybe we'll do three of them in this particular morning. They're all going to leave. And then I'm going to have tea and biscuits in bed. What kind of biscuits? It actually really doesn't matter. I just so often I'm just like, not bring me a biscuit.

Are you a Biccy head? Oh my god, I love biscuits so much. If somebody offers me a tin of biscuits, I will take two instantly because I know I'm coming back for the second so it's like why don't pretend. Let's just have the first and the second now. You must have a favourite. I really like a hobnob. Milk chocolate. No, just the hobnob.

Straight up hobnob. I love milk chocolate. Do you? So donkey. The thing about the thing, they're really donkey. But the thing with milk, you can have a bit too many, whereas you could just go and go and go without the chocolate on a hobnob. So maybe a mixture of milk chocolate, hobnobs and hobnobs.

Not dark chocolate. I actually get quite a crash from a chocolate hobnob. Chocolate bits, yeah. I often need a little nap. Sensitive to biscuits. Oh yeah. Yeah, same. Exactly, yeah.

So two, I'm talking two biscuits. Two biscuits. Cup of tea. Cup of tea in bed. And I'm alone in bed. And out the window, I can see a mountain. That's what I'd like. Maybe in my head I know I'm going up in a couple of days. Really?

But not tomorrow. You know, there's no pressure. But I'm like, I will be up that mountain one day. I can just see this lovely mountain. Maybe a nice Scottish mountain. Sullivan, that's a lovely one in the northeast. Or Ben Nevis, obviously that's up there. Heather Do you like a mountain hike then? Louise I love a mountain hike. Heather Do you? Are you a big hiking family? What do you do with the kids? Louise No, I would love to be a big hiking family. Mark is a little weather adverse. Heather Oh is he? Weather sensitive?

Louise Yeah, very weather sensitive. So you can see a lovely mountain, what's next? A big long hot shower. Oh yeah, in your house? Yeah just in my house. Or is there a special shower that you've attended? No I think, do you know where those really fancy showers freak me out a bit? You know when the rain ones? Yeah they've got too many buttons and you're like. Yeah, and it can go wrong with those. Yeah. Can't it? You can get a shot. Suddenly hot, suddenly cold, suddenly, suddenly the sound of like a cheetah roaring. You know, you go to those like I've been, I went to once to an ice bar and it made a jungle sound. Oh, nice. Sounds great. Well, I don't think in the changing room sounds great. Something a bit like primordial going

on with like, oh yeah. Yeah, that's actually just right. An outdoor shower is nice, but maybe not in South East London. Are you a cold shower person? I will have a cold shower, that's fine, but I want a hot shower. I want a long hot shower this morning. Do you do the cold shower thing? No, I don't do it. I love cold water. I like getting cold water. Maybe I should do the cold. Do you do the cold shower thing? Our shower won't go cold so we can't because actually my husband really wants to do it but we can't. We can't get it cold. It's always like blook warm. So lovely shower. Yeah, lots of scrubbing. I just really like to feel scrubbed.

So you're sloughing off all the ha- Piles of dead skin in the bath. It's so satisfying to see. It's a delight. Well, I must have to do that. I'm having thoughts. It's my place to think. Shower thoughts. Yeah, shower thoughts. I think about do there? I'm having thoughts. It's my place to think. Shower thoughts. Yeah, shower thoughts. I think about things in the shower all the time. But I think it's the white noise thing, I think. Shower thoughts are a thing. That's so interesting. I know they are because there's a whole Reddit thread devoted to shower thoughts.

Oh, great. And I have had the same thing, but I think I ruined it because I was like, I have all my best ideas in the shower. Going to get in the shower. Come on then. Just standing there. It's quite a lot of pressure actually. And then the water did go cold. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't stand there for long enough. Yeah. No ideas come. So do you, but you, you, on your perfect morning, do you have a, do you have an excellent idea? Yeah. This is meaningless because I don't have to do anything with it. Do you know why? It's like,

not work, but have a great idea. I'm like, that's it. That's the idea. The idea. And I remember your great ideas. Do you write everything down? I sort of feel like if it's not going to stay with you, it's not a good enough idea. Do you? I do write things down. It depends what you're doing, doesn't it? But like, if you're, I suppose, mainly what I do is make a whole series. And if it's an idea that's not going to cut it for a whole series, it's not worth writing down. So the idea is, oh, witches. Yeah. And then that's fine, that's going to stay with me. Exactly these ideas are not complicated just to be clear. Wait, period. Is there one, is there a new one that you're

playing with? A few. A few. Yeah. But you can't talk about them. Nah. Well the ideas I think are such like delicate things aren't they? Yes. And if you open the box too soon and say them out loud you can crush them You really can. You have to be so careful who you talk to about your new ideas Who do you trust in your life to share your ideas with? Keep them to yourself for as long as possible I keep them to myself for as long as possible? I keep them to myself for as long as possible and sort of think about them. I might run them past, light touch run them past somebody. But it is, I think it's a difficult thing saying your ideas out loud and having the confidence that they are good enough. They're

such delicate little things, aren't they? And also just that, that thing of like, oh, who am I to think I could make a thing about this topic? Who am I? That's outrageous. And then you kind of have to get through that and figure out why you should talk about this topic, why it interests you and that sort of thing. Why me? Why you? Why, yeah, why any of us? Yeah, I know, but that is always things like, I don't know, because I'm interested in it. Yeah, and why not? No one else has done it. Yeah. Yeah, one else has done it or loads of people have done it, but I want to do it anyway. I do remember like early doors and 28 days later, so a couple of you would be like, why are you gonna present it?

Um, well, I mean, I've got a period. I've had some periods. And then just kind of having to really back yourself. Yeah. How did you push past that then? Or did it not take much? It didn't take too much. Yeah, it didn't take too much. But there were just a couple of questions that were like, I think there's that thing of like, what if we put no one said this, but like, what if Gwyneth Paltrow does it instead or what if like a big name does it and say, well, they could but I just quite like to can I have a crack? Give me a go. I'm so glad you did get a go. The next thing after shower is wet eggs, scrambled eggs. But they're like wet. Oh, no. Sorry eggs! Sorry, pregnant lady in the corner going, ooooh!

Do you actually call them that? No, we call them scrambled eggs. They are scrambled eggs. But like really wet. Wet with egg. Not raw. Wet with egg. Not wet with water.

Because that's what I'm picturing. That would be so disgusting. Imagine just chop them up, bit like added water. Because that's what I'm picturing. That would be so disgusting. Imagine, just chop them up, bit of hot water, stir it around. Oh my wet eggs. No, just like, just get the eggs out when they're wet. I don't understand all these people with these bits of foam.

Yeah, I like, I like, I absolutely hate wet eggs. I need them to be properly cooked. Foam. I don't like it to be overcooked. Don't say properly cooked like your way is the proper way. This is where the problem comes is that everyone thinks that they know how to do proper eggs. Normalise wet eggs. At least be fair to them because they're bloody delicious.

So runny. Are we just talking runny? They're not runny. They're just like glistening still. They don't look like bits of... Oh, you've added a word like glistening now and now you're winning. They're just glistening, they're soft. Do you know what I mean? They're not like... you don't have to cut them. No, I mean... You don't have to shuffle... they don't wobble off your fork. But what about butter? I like a lot of butter. Yeah, loads of butter. It's wet with butter. Okay, fine. Yeah, it's loads of butter in the pan. Fine, you can have it on your perfect morning. Thank you so much. On your perfect morning, you're allowed to have your glistening with butter wet eggs.

Yeah. I thought at this point I should have should inject some friends because I've been alone for quite a long time at this point. Yeah. And that might be too much of a giveaway. Yeah. So everyone, everyone's coming round to yours for wet eggs. Two people, two people coming for wet eggs. Two of your favourite people. Again, very, I get overwhelmed very easily. Do you? Two of my favourite people come over for wet eggs. Probably my friends Kerry and Kirsty, who I've known since birth.

Oh my god, how lovely. They're like, sort of, since birth. How come you've known them since birth? Our mums all knew each other. It's so unique, isn't it? What an amazing thing. It's sort of like family but chosen but you've chosen to continue the friendship. I've got a couple of those friends. It's not quite the same thing but our mums are friends and we're friends and ugh. We did all sorts of witchy things together as well when we were

little. We used to like paint this statue of a pig. Sorry, Martin Lewis just put his head through the door. Martin Lewis! Martin Lewis! Sorry I was distracted, but Martin- Has he come to give us some advice? Martin Lewis just looked through the window and that was very odd. Did he look right in your eyes? What do you think he saw? I don't know what I was expecting to see through the window when there was a face there but

I wasn't expecting Martin Lewis's. Good to know he's next door though, eh? Got any pressing questions for Martin Lewis today? In case we want to ask him about our pensions. Exactly. Haven't got one. Should I have one? Should we get him in here?

Martin, come on! Do you know what would be my perfect day actually? You can make this happen right now if Martin Lewis comes in here and gives us 10 minutes on pensions. Lucy, go and get Martin Lewis. Come on. No, I think it would be really depressing actually. I don't think that is your perfect day.

I don't think you're going to want that. I don't, I really don't think you are. If he could also sort it out for me and pop a few thousand pounds Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, tens of thousands. Yeah, just anything literally anything. Yeah. Yeah, just just make it exist So you're so Kerry and Kirstie Kerry and Kirsty around for wet eggs. Yeah, are you chatting about? Oh They're a member the time time in the last 30 odd years. Yeah. Yeah, that's really nice. What are you chatting about? Oh, remember the time stuff from the last 30 odd years. Yeah, yeah, we're remembering good times. We're having

a laugh. What an archive you've got. I've scrubbed my skin. Now I'm going to just scrub my soul in the morning. I'm going to give my soul a good scrub with Kirsty and Kerry. Yeah, lovely. I feel like really buoyed up. They're also excellent at G-ing me up. I think hopefully we're all good at G-ing each other up. I don't know. Maybe I'm the neggy one. You know when like you think, oh, these people are great. I must be the dud. No, never. In the room. You never think that. No, I mean, you can't be the dud. No.

Oh no. I think sometimes I absolutely am. We've got to all accept that sometimes we all are sometimes the dud in the room. I was the dud the other night and I felt I just was like I'm the dud tonight. It's on me and I can't believe it because it's hardly, it's arrogant but it's hardly ever me. Oh no. But it was my turn. To be the dud.

I've got a lot of noisy friends, I've got a lot of noisy comedian for everyone's funny all the time and we can go out for dinner and they're not exhausting they're just great but it's rare that I just, I was too tired and I couldn't keep up. Yeah that's fine, you've just got to own being the dud. I just sat back and ate my steak and watched them and thought I'm the dud tonight and that's okay. Maybe we could have like something that you could wear.

Like a dud hat. Like a dud hat. Like a dud's okay. Maybe we could have like something that you could wear. Like a dud hat. Like a dud hat. Yeah. Maybe we should bring you back mood rings. I think everyone knows when you're the dud, don't they? It's okay. She's the dud tonight. She's the dud.

Yeah. But you're not the dud on your perfect morning or are you? You bringing it? Yeah, yeah. It's day 10. It's equal. We're all having a lovely time. It's just a chat. Come on, Roy, I want to hear about them. It's equal. Yeah. We're all having a lovely time. It's

just a chat. Come on Roy, I want to hear about them. I don't want to talk about myself. Really? Do you not like talking about yourself? You're doing a pretty good job of this. I'm joking. No, I'm joking when it's literally an interview format. So it would be really weird if you did. Now I'm talking about you, Jessica. What's your perfect day? Do you genuinely? Start from the beginning. Come on. I actually hate it when people ask me that. Let's talk about your perfect afternoon. When we wake up on this day, we need to have done some time traveling and blown up phones

before they got the chance to exist. I'm not going to be really like, I hate phones, they're the worst. Because that's what I actually think. But Mark says I'm like an annoying auntie with it. What I want on this day though, is I want there to be no phones so that I can leave the door. And a stranger will ask me for directions. Somebody did it the other day and I was just over the bloody moon. Because their phone had died. Yeah, I don't know why. They were like, their phone didn't work in this country or something. They were like, how do I get to here? And I was like, oh, hi. Great. Let's chat. I was

like, go this way, this way. And I loved it. I remember once asking a girl for directions years ago, probably like 12 years ago, and she was standing next to a chest of drawers. And I was like, how do I get to this page? She was like, I go in there, but I'm also trying to take this chest of drawers. And then we carried it with her. And then we exchanged numbers. And then I ended up going to like her house party. We were like friends for a bit. And it was lovely. But it was like, that's the sort of thing that you're kind of missing out on isn't it? By living so much in your own control of your own world. It's like let other people send you the wrong way for a little bit and see what happens and

don't sweat it. So I'm going to walk out the door and someone's going to ask me for directions. Great. Number one, that's the first thing. Yeah. And I also think this afternoon I want to do two activities. Number one, that's the first thing. Yeah. And I also think this afternoon, I want to do two activities. One is surfing, and the other is life touring. And I am rubbish at both of them. But I love them. I'm like terrible. I don't want anyone to come away with an impression that I can draw or surf from this conversation because I can't do either. But I love doing

them. I think both of the activities are really mindful because you get on, you're like just bobbing out there on the sea, holding onto your board, looking for a wave and like the right sort of wave. And that takes a lot of concentration. It's very relaxing. I think they've done some research and the mind, the brain waves of surfers are kind of like akin to Buddhist monks. Heather Hys monks. Really? Yeah. Again, I'm massively misquoted, you should probably dodge your science here. I mean, you can only be in the moment of the surf. You can't be on your phone. You can't really be thinking about it because you have to concentrate because otherwise you

won't catch the wave. I have tried to surf and my husband got me a surf lesson for my birthday a few years ago and we now refer to it as the birthday drowning. I couldn't pop up, but it's just so frightening. And I think that any ocean where there are waves is a scary ocean and you have to figure out how to sort of duck under between waves if you're not going to catch that wave and there's all sorts of and you're like oh really nearly I nearly did that one then it comes and hits you and exactly it's utterly exhausting as well yeah I guess if once you've got the hang of it I can see absolutely how it would be amazing but for the beginner it's tough.

Well you just, I'm really fine with failure. I don't mind being rubbish at stuff. I don't mind losing things. I am a little bit competitive but I don't mind losing. I can like shake it off really easily and I think I actually just love being in the sea. So if I've just got wet, there's a theme here of being wet. Yeah, there is, isn't there? Wet showers, wet eggs, wet sea. I want a nice wet sea with a wet suit. But that is satisfying exhaustion. So, and then life drawing, off to life drawing.

Off to life drawing. Off to life drawing. Wet life drawing off to life drawing. So what's your relationship to life drawing? Just to like it. I just really like it. I'm not good at it. I've done it like three times, but it's maybe the same, isn't it? So if you how so? It just requires a lot of concentration. With your friends. Other people, yeah some pals maybe, but again we're not talking. We're not like, there's no conversing going on, it's very peaceful.

There's a nice light, because it's autumn now. Oh lovely. Yeah, since the wet eggs it's been autumn, of which I failed. That's nice. Yeah, nice long autumn afternoon. Early autumn for the surfing, obviously. Also the warmest time to get in the sea. Great, September.

Yeah, lovely. And then it's a nice, so there's a nice autumn light coming through. Maybe that outside there's like lots of leaves. Does that close out the afternoon? Lunch. And I actually think what I want is after surfing to get out and have fish and chips specifically from the Wetherby Whaler. Oh, really?

I haven't had some Wetherby Whaler fish and chips specifically from the Wetherby Whaler. Oh! I haven't had some Wetherby Whaler fish and chips in a long time and they're not Wetherby Whaler chips now because I don't know what they're like. I'm sure they're fantastic. I haven't been for a while but I'm sure they're great. These are 90s Wetherby Whaler fish and chips. So this autumn afternoon as well we're having fish and chips on the beach and then we're going to go for a nice walk and I'm going to be like some cool hedge witch in this perfect day and I'll know what to forage for. I'll just be like walking along and be like, oh, a bit of- Oh, some nettles. Rose hip and a nettle and a bit of a honeysuckle. I don't know, whatever. And then I'll make

something fantastic with it. Oh yeah. And I did think the kids could be there. I do really like them. So they can be around on two conditions. One, that they eat everything I make. And two, there are no bodily fluids. And then we're going to dip into the evening and it's going to be summer. The sun is setting on a summer's day. There's only a little bit of summer in this day. It's like majority spring, a bit of quite a lot of autumn is my absolute crack. I love autumn. It just gets me going. I'm like on fire in autumn. I love it so much. I think it's the

cooling down. Yeah, like the summer is over. Gathering your nuts. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Nut gathering. There is a little bit of New pencil case vibe and sort of nut gathering going on. Yeah, it is isn't it? Nut gathering. There is a little bit of new pencil case vibe and sort of nut gathering going on. Yeah, I absolutely love it. So, but this is a summer

evening. It's that lovely bit where you're like, finally your body's cooling down at the end of the day and you crack and open a really nice bottle of white and then for dinner you're having British tapas, also known as crisps. Everyone's just got another flavour and they're like, you know with the bit where you open up the bag fully on the pub table. So much possibility. Yeah. I'm going to eat them all. I'm so bad with crisps. I love all the crisps. Don't open crisps near me. We don't have them in the house because we just eat them. So they just span. I love prawn cocktail. And are we? Very nice with a glass of rose. And a glass of rose. Yeah, because it's a summer's evening. A summer's evening.

Rose and crisps. We're having a fancy dinner. And there's a glass of rose, yeah, because it's a summer's evening. A summer's evening. Rose and Chris. Having a fancy dinner. And there's lots of people around, lots of chat, lots of laughter. That's really nice. Is it like a pub garden? I'm picturing it. Yeah. I think we're in a pub garden or something. It's like a pub garden. Yeah. There's a view. It's either in a pub or I just think it could be in someone's garden because I do like a house party. So if it's bordering on a house

party, that'd be quite fun. It could be ramping up. Could be ramping up, but don't let it. That's not part of the perfect day. Right. Yeah. Because there's more. Because yeah, we're going to go out dancing, but the focus is like specifically on dancing. So it's kind of like a massive Zumba class. Okay. But freestyle. Is it all your friends? Yeah,

friends are there, but there's lots of leotards maybe. Colourful clothing. Like rainbow rhythms. Sweat. Yeah, like rainbow rhythms without any downbeat like inner child stuff. Okay, great. Yeah, none of that. Okay, just really upbeat. So it's like hours of dancing, very high energy, but not drinking. I think I like a drink. I like a good like one or two really nice glasses of like, I'm gonna say a nice wine. I don't know what that means because I don't actually know anything about wines. Just wants to, well, it tastes nice and be really cold. Sort of can be a bit drunk, I think, without the drink. I can kind of get, especially on day 10 of my cycle, day 14, it was just like one big booze up. It's down the side.

Yeah, exactly. It's like giddy all day. But I just want to get home sober. Right. And maybe shower off all the sweat. Have another little sluff off. Exactly. Sluff it all off again. And then I want to eat a whole Terry's chocolate orange on the sofa. Oh. And like watch a documentary off again. And then I want to eat a whole Terry's Chocolate Orange on the sofa. Oh! And like, watch the documentary or something.

And what? I'm just eating a whole Terry's Chocolate Orange. How do you feel about the core? That's the best bit. Do you eat it first or do you save it to last? Yeah, first. No, first. It's so exciting, the core! It just made me feel so excited thinking about the core of a Terry's Chocolate Orange. And do you eat it out of season? Is there a season? Yeah, Christmas isn't it? Oh, I had no idea Terry's Chocolate Orange was tied to a seasonal

event. Maybe that's just me. I see it all year round. Well I see that makes sense doesn't it, but I would have a Terry's Chocolate Orange any day of the week. Any day of the year. And do you? Yeah. You treat yourself to a chocolate, a choc chocolate orange any day of the week. Any day of the year. And do you? Yeah. You treat yourself to a chocolate orange. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially sometimes you can get there's like a co-op offer on them, isn't there?

You can get a few in while the offer's on. So how often... Stuck at the cupboard. How often are you doing any of the things that you've described in your perfect evening these days? Eating a chocolate orange on the sofa. A lot. A lot.

Going out dancing. Never. Never. I crave it so much. It's amazing how much this comes up and nobody does it. What, raving? Just dancing, going out, going out to like an age appropriate for like the age we're at.

Yeah. It's come up quite a bit and we don't, but everyone always says like, I never do that and I miss it and I love it. Why don't we do it? Well, it's just also, I feel like it's become a bit more daunting, the concert going out, the older I've got. And I remember being 30 and going to a club in Peckham and being outside in the smoking bit and some people chatting to some people and it's coming up that I was 30 and one of them being like, oh my God, and calling his friends over. Oh, to look at you. Going, this lady's 30. And they were like, good on you. Good on you being out. I was like, what?

That was like seven, eight years ago now. And so that's quite deeply depressing, isn't it? And Yeah. Do you own a leotard? No, I don't. But I would if I could find this place. I don't actually don't know if I would actually put a leotard on. It feels a bit exposing. Exposing, doesn't it? I've got what I bought one of those outfits. I don't know why, just like on a whim, one of those like full body suits.

Oh, yeah. I was going to wear it to my 40th birthday and then I chickened out. You know, like. Was it colourful? Yeah. Did you like it? Have you still got it? I didn't even try it on. Oh no. I bought it second hand online and then when it arrived I was like I haven't got it in there. Was it like thin material? Yeah like a proper, not like leotard material. Oh wow. But a full bodysuit.

That's so cool. Have you still got it? Who do you think you are? Send me a private message. You'll be embarrassed. That sounds weird. But you know, you started this. I don't have to go to it. Yeah. Okay, so. Also it's winter now. Oh, I what? It's winter in the evening. Sorry. I know, I've got a long list. It's gone from summer to winter. Okay. Yeah, it's gone from summer to winter, but winter evenings, we've got blankets, warm socks, Perry's chocolate orange, because it's winter, maybe for you. Yeah. Yeah. And the lighting's perfect. I'm a big, big one on lighting. I might do a bit of tarot, actually. So you are a witch. I don't believe in it at all as a form of divination, but I do love it for helping me think through a problem, or like just having a laugh. And actually, Mark and I do love it for helping me think through a problem, or like just having a laugh. And actually Mark and I do it every now and then.

So it's just like a really great conversation starter. Not that we need. You know, breaks the ice between us. How was your day? Yeah, fine. Should we just get the tarot cards out? Let's just get the tarot cards out quick. This is awkward.

But we have quite a fun time playing a bit of tarot. I really like that. Yeah, I can see that. And that's like, you know, then snuggle down for the evening. Fire on. Candles lit. Candles lit.

Oh. Bit of tarot. Lovely. Very relaxing. You've still got that like post-dance buzz in your body, but you're like really sober enough to feel the high of it. Is that the end? Of the day?

Yeah. Well, can I add one thing? Yeah. I'm going to go to bed alone, not alone with Mark, we're going to go to bed. But very briefly, in bed with us is our friend Kieran. Special guy. He's a really special guy. Because he's sort of like our mutual best friend.

If we like both had a friend who was a best friend to both of us equally, I'm sure we would argue about this, it would be Kieran. But there was this bit at university where Kieran and I, for some unknown reason, inhabited an attic room in Mark's house for like the final month of university. Even though we both had perfectly lovely homes, we just sort of slept in sleeping bags in this room and had an absolute giggle for a month. And sometimes all three of us would just like get in the same room and like laugh. But what he's really good at is talking you to sleep in a hilarious way. And he'll just talk for England. And there is nothing nicer than going to sleep laughing. And that's such like a kind of rare

thing but to like be actively almost in the middle of a laugh and fall asleep. But he can waffle on for England and it's a joy. I just want Kieran to talk you to sleep. It's that feeling of like, it's really unusual as an adult to have that feeling because it's sort of like when you're at a sleepover or whatever. Yeah, yeah. You just don't really have sleepovers. You don't have sleepovers and they're so fun. So yeah, I'd like Kieran to be there right at the end of the day. Lovely.

I love that. We have one bonus question. What's a piece of perfection you'd recommend this week? Have you seen the James Blunt documentary? No, I have not seen the James Blunt documentary. Don't say it like that. No, I'm just, I just didn't, I didn't know there was a James Blunt documentary. There's a James Blunt documentary and it is absolutely fantastic.

Is he funny? He's really funny and it is really interesting. You forget how much these people get absolutely hated on, like ripped down, publicly hated, but it's, it's sort of, bits of it are like the real life spinal tap as well. Even his band had been on the tour for so long. Together they all just like, the director asks one of them as a question like, oh is it easy to play? Or do you find it difficult playing some of James' music? And the bassist goes, my dog could play it. It's really uplifting and funny.

It sounds like, because this is what you need when you've got young children and you've just not got that much time, just an easy watch. Maybe you don't even need to watch it all the way through. Is it a three pop? Was it? No, it's just straight up one episode. Future. Oh, right. Glorious, I know. More of those please. It's amazing, isn't it? It's like the rise of these 27 part

podcasts. India, thank you so much for coming on Perfect Day. It was a joy to hear you Perfect Day and talk about everything else that you've been doing. And yeah, guys, check out India Rackersons amazing body of work. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks for letting me think about my perfect day. What a joy. It's nice. It's good fun, isn't it? Yeah. One day it will happen.

Bye. What a brilliant and interesting, clever, lovely woman. I just love chatting with India. I think she's great and I also met her 10 out of 10 baby. Incredible. I think about him a lot. I really do. He's an amazing baby. So please do go and listen to her documentaries. They are so, so good good and if you do take up witchcraft as a consequence, please can you do a little spell to make her move to Yorkshire so we can be best friends. Thanks for listening, like and subscribe, leave us a review, it really helps.

Not just ego wise, it actually does something to the algorithm and I do read them, including the bad ones, but I also read the good ones and they make us feel real good inside. So follow us on at Perfect Daycast for all your perfect day news. From Yorkshire with love, I'm Jessica Knappett, wishing you a perfect day.