Perfect Day with Jessica Knappett - EP25: Jessie Cave

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

The sensational author, comedian, actress and artist Jessie Cave joins Jessica Knappett on the podcast this week to bare all. In a particularly tange-filled episode the pair (who do eventually get on to Jessie’s perfect day) delve into their psychies. The pair discuss bad men, sex, relationships, the perils of soy, children, sticky tape, Harry Potter and self-diagnosis. TW: Discussion of mental health, trauma and adult themes. Like and subscribe for brand-new episodes every Thursday. Follow us on Instagram @perfectdaycast And, why not get in touch? Email us at [e-mail] A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales and general enquiries: [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Alright then. I get so turned on in being cute, it's kind of obscene. Hello Perfect Dayers, I'm Jessica Knappett and you are not immune to propaganda. Welcome to Perfect Day. Today we have the most brilliant lovely guest. She's an author, she's an artist, a comedian, an all-round overachiever. It's Jessie Cave and oh my god what an episode. Jessie admittedly entered in what she called quite a mad mood and we have such an amazingly honest and quite long chat before we get into her perfect day because this bloody format's always getting in the way of my chat isn't it? So look it's just one of those episodes we we're just all going to have to go with it

because I just don't think we mind anymore, do we? We understand we are dwellers in the city of Tanj, Tanj city, and that's okay. We talk about so much stuff, including horrible men. My favourite topic. Mothering mistakes, another one of my favourite topics, no wonder we never got onto the format, body image, looking like a cult leader. And then we move onto our most sexy perfect day yet and talk about B&Q and sticky tape and medical issues and Harry Potter and Nicole Kidman and the dangers of soy yoghurt.

And of course relationships and being in a crisis. We cover a lot of ground and I respect Jessie Cave for that. So thanks to Jessie for being so open and honest about pretty much everything in the way that I do when I go on other people's podcasts. And it's fun, isn't it, to just say what you feel. And eventually we do get to her perfect day. We talk about that. I promise. So go on, grab a cuppa. No soy milk. That's a reference to the interview which you haven't heard yet. So can't really call it a callback. A call forward. It's a call forward. It's a Foreshadowing that makes it sound ominous. There will be a word for it Enjoy Jesse caves perfect day

The only emails I get from Pinterest All right then There's something slightly between two Fernsie about it all today. Where's the camera for me? Is that it? Yeah. That's my bad side so I'm gonna just... same. do you know what? do it like this. and I was thinking I mean you don't have a bad side Jessi, that's what I should have said. that's very flattering but I do. that's why I'm covering my ear. got a massive ear. have you got one massive ear? You don't. No I do. That's my big ear and that's my normal ear. They don't look any different to me. Are you mad? Look.

No. It's got a little healthy bit. No you look great. You both look great. That's sweet. Thank you. It's the profile for me. That's much better for me.

There you go. And we're just going to start filming. No, I'm trying, I was trying not to think about it. I'm so sorry. No, that's what I do, is that I try not to think about the fact that it's being filmed but then, and same for photographs. That's how you should be, but you probably, I've seen enough horrific shots of me to know that you just have to be a little bit vain.

I think you just always look great. That's so sweet. And also so, you look exactly the But I think you just always look great. That's so sweet. And also so... You look exactly the same age as you did in Harry Potter. How old were you in Harry Potter? Well it's... I think this is why... Can you swear on this podcast?

Oh yeah. This is why I'm so fucked up. Oh my god! Yeah because I... Going straight in. Going straight in. As I mentioned just out there in the little room, I am going through a little bit of a crisis, like a fun kind of breakdown.

Okay, great. And the only income this year for me is, I'm very lucky, but I do get invited to Harry Potter conventions. ComCom. Which means Comic-Con. Comic-Con. J.K. BOOTH Comic-Con, sorry.

C.P. They change the name. Like the big Comic-Cons are, yeah, that's what you want. I don't get invited to them. I get invited to weird little castles in Germany. And you're invited, there's usually lots of chickens and animals running around and maybe 10 people want your autograph. Anyway, that's my day job right now.

Weekends, I go to little castles and I sign things, but it's a lot of pressure, these things because I started doing the conventions just after Harry Potter when I did look the same, albeit a bit heavier. That's another story. So I very early on had this conflict because I was like, okay, I don't think I'm ever going to act again. So I need to, if I'm going to be able to do the Harry Potter conventions, I need to kind of look like my character so that I keep getting arse back. In reality, I could have got arse back and just looked different to my character because you're an

actress and you're portraying a character. But the industry, I think, has changed my entire mind so much. And I think I have some kind of facial body dysmorphia because of my early experiences in the industry. And so now when you say, oh, you look like you did in Harry Potter, part of me is like, success! Wow, I just should not have said that at all, should I? I just, I really thought, and this is why we shouldn't comment on each other's appearance. What a can of worms. And also, I've just genuinely meant it as such a great compliment and absolutely, sorry, to finish what you were saying, on the plus side you think yes, victory, and on the other side you think?

Poor me. Like how sad that I'm so vain and I've tried to look similar to how I looked when I was 20. Like it's just so pathetic. Vanity is so embarrassing, isn't it? Oh my gosh, you're quite hard on yourself, aren't you? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very hard on myself. But that's, I think because I, yeah, there's a lot going, there's a lot that's gone, yeah, there's a lot going, there's a lot that's gone wrong. And then there's a lot of mistakes I've made. And so I'm at this age, I've hit 35. And I was just suddenly like, let's examine everything that you did wrong in your life. And I'm just in this kind of little bit of a strange mood right now,

which as you can tell, we're two minutes in. Do you know what though? And I've gone for it. I'm just so up for getting into it if you want to. Okay, good. Let's go for it. We sort of, whatever you want it to be, and we will talk about your perfect day, but upfront we usually just have a chat and that's what we're doing.

And I think we should just go straight in and then we can talk about your perfect day later. And just, we could just quickly do it for five minutes at the end. That's what keeps happening. Also, I think my perfect day is also extremely depressing. So that's fine. That's fine. Right.

So let's talk about it. Do you mind talking about your kids? Because something obviously notable about you, you've experienced your life, I would say quite prematurely compared to a lot of people like you obviously had early success in Harry Potter, very young, and then you had children quite young, I think, I don't know, maybe I'm just being horrible judgmental. I had two and two, so I had two in my 20s and then I had two in my 30s. I had two pandemic babies. Oh my god. Almost as a genuine attempt to not make the same mistakes.

So what do you mean by same mistakes? What were the initial mistakes? My initial mistakes were, with your first child, of course you make mistakes. You don't know what you're doing. You're learning a new language. Everything about you is, you know, you can't do anything the same. I don't like that when people say, oh, your identity changes when you become a mother. I don't believe that. I do believe that your lots of things get, there's more obstacles to the previous self. But because I had a baby accidentally, we were meant to be having a one night stand, but I got pregnant. So my life was very much changed from that moment onwards. Also at a real crucial crossroads in my career because I'd finally started getting acting work.

Oh, wow. Again, after, so there was a break after? Again after nothing, after High Quarter. So you were essentially a child actor, although you were 20. No, I was 20 to 22. Oh right. But what happened was I got this big role in the sixth film, which was like a big break. Very early on I was at art school and I got this role and then I was suddenly like, oh well then I guess I should be an actress, even though that was never really in my cards. And did that role. Those

films take forever. So even if you're not a big part, you're there a lot. I didn't realise this. I thought this was normal. I really, I really feel that. So you could be waiting around for one week. I went mad. I actually went mad. One week I was in my trailer for one whole week. Just didn't do it. Never got out of the trailer. Just on standby. They bought me food. I was a prisoner. It was amazing. I decorated. I bought in fairy lights. That's why I started doing my doodles. I put my doodles all over the thing. It's

where I first, I learned the lesson that if you're going to be an actress, you have to have a hobby. You have to have something else going on. But I think being held in a trailer is because it is a prison. You do go mad. I mean, like if people have seen what I do, the last job I did, I was in Serbia and I went again, I knew, right, you're in four episodes of something, you're going to be in a trader a lot in a different country. What was this? It was called Miss Scarlet and the Duke.

Is it out? Yeah, it's on Prime and things like that, alibi. It's actually the role I'm most happy with. Really? The one that I was like, okay, I'm ready to not get a job now. Because it was just the, I did it, you know, it was period dress and I think I acted my best that I've done. You know, I've never been happy with anything I've ever filmed. So this was the only thing I was like, oh, I actually really

put the work in. Anyway, I was in the trailer on my own and I just became prepared. I bought felt to cut up. I was going to, because I make, I have, you know, my doodle shop and I sell things. I bought loads of felts. I had loads of videos downloaded for arm workouts. I just went, I just, I just knew I was going to be in the trailer all the time and I came prepared and every time they knocked on the door, they would look quite scared of what they were seeing because it was either me like doing the plank. Or just covered in felt. Yeah, or with little scissors. Hello.

Yes. Oh, one second. I'll just put my corset back on. I was also pregnant. Oh my God. So I was going even more mad because I was trying to get through those first 12 weeks without telling anybody, but I was extremely sick and nauseous. You're not really supposed to wear corsets, are you? trying to get through those first 12 weeks without telling anybody, but I was extremely sick and nauseous.

Niamh No, so you're not really supposed to wear corsets are you? Niamh Not supposed to be in a hot country wearing corsets, chopping up felt. So I did go, every time I've done an acting job, very quickly I've gone mad. And that's why I'm in this crossroads right now of very much still being up for jobs and you know, never getting them absolutely at peace with that. Yeah, yeah, me too. The only time that it gets to me is when I almost get it.

Not to be horrible about the industry but I really don't like very much that's going on right now. So it's not like- As in you don't like what you're watching. You don't watch things and think, well I could have been in that and I would have been amazing in succession. Oh, that's the only one I'd say. Did you imagine being in succession? That's actually in my perfect day. That's in my perfect succession. Oh, that's the only one I'd say. Did you imagine being in succession?

That's actually in my perfect day. That's my perfect day. Oh, no way! Spoiler! So I'm not really that bothered. It's when you almost get it and it is actually something that's quite good. Then you're just like, oh, okay. Oh my God.

But I just look at actresses now like another species. I'm just like, I'm not that. I'm not that. And that's okay, I'm not that. I'm not that. And that's okay. But you are that. I'm not. But nobody talks about the periods in between, do they, really? Very soon after Harry Potter, I wasn't working and I went back to art school and I started

comedy and I've been doing Edinburgh shows since 2012. And it's just been very, I never really lived that life of the actress. It was immediately not for me. But as in deliberately so, or do you think if you'd have gone from role to role to role, you would, if I'd gone from role to role and I'd stayed thin, yeah, I would have stayed on because I gained weight between the film. So I was a big part in the sixth film. And then I'm brought back as you know, a tiny tiny extra essentially, not whatever sporting artist's background, I just get killed. But by that point, I gained two stone for a number of

reasons. Mainly because I think I got addicted to soy. They don't tell you. They don't tell you the calorific dangers of soy. Well, they don't tell you that if you have polycystic ovaries, which I do. I do too. You should stay away from soy. What? So I thought soy was good, so low calorie and it's disgusting. Come on, soy yogurt. Are you talking about as in like soya milk?

No, soya yogurt. So what would happen is I was doing this, my only ever West End show, and I thought to be healthy rather than eat a meal, I eat a whole, because you know, just to further just double down on how all actresses are mad, I thought, don't have lunch, have a whole tub of soy yoghurt, mix that with some chia seeds and that's healthy. Because you were trying to be really healthy and look after yourself. Trying to be unnaturally thin. Right. Gaunt was my aim. Because you had a misplaced belief that, or maybe it was true, and in which case horrific

of them, that they downgraded your part because of putting on the weight. No, they didn't downgrade my part. It was unfortunate timing. I was still very much like an actress with everybody else in the background. I had still very much like, you know, an actress with everybody else in the background. I had my death scene. But what was interesting is that weight that I'd put on meant that I wasn't now like a hot young thing who had a big role and it could, you know, she can now go on to big things. I was written off. And it's hard to really see exactly how, it's just how I felt. And that might be all on me. I completely don't blame anyone, but I was largely ignored. No, it's not like there's two people sitting around making a decision and saying, right,

well, no, she's put on too much. But you can still feel that that might be the reason. But it also... It's just how I was treated. I was treated like I was invisible because I wasn't this kind of... I was treated very differently. It's very interesting looking back now because people kind of claim that the industry is a lot, you know, kinder to women and you're allowed to be in normal shape and stuff but I really don't think it's true. After I had my first baby and I'd put on, I just had like baby weight and I was living in LA and I had to go, I was going out for auditions and stuff and I realized after a

while that they were, I was going out, they were putting me up for like the overweight girl in the thing. But I was walking into the audition room and I could tell that they were like, not overweight, no, not overweight. What are you doing here? You're not overweight enough. And then one casting director actually just told me that I wasn't overweight enough. And that's an interesting thing to hear when you're like, oh, I didn't know that I was supposed to be overweight. She was like, oh yeah, yeah, she's real messy. That's so interesting too. Because I've also never been, since Lavender Brown and Harry Potter, I've never been put up for a lead. And I've never been put up for anyone with

any iota of a romantic interest or anyone who's remotely sexy. It's always been extreme geeks, losers, fat girls. I'm just like, it's just amazing. It's so funny. And it's so interesting, because I was talking to this actress the other day and she's amazing. She's been in this relationship for 16 years. And I was talking to her about long-term relationships

and I was asking her, because you don't, there's very few actors who have lasted with their relationships for years and years and years. Can you think of any long term actor, actor, couples who've lasted? And I constantly look for them because I'm like, no, it can happen. You can last in love. Long term love does exist. Monogamy isn't dead. You know, like stuff like this. I actually can't think of one. Thank you. Yeah, it's really hard. That's worrying.

I know. But I always thought that was because actors are slags. It is. So this is my point. So I met this actress, she said she has been in a long term relationship for 16 years. But crucially, she has lots of on-screen love affairs. Oh yeah. So she gets her kicks. That'll scratch the itch. She gets the kicks.

I can attest to that. We had Brett Goldstein in the other day. Oh my god, have you had a romantic scene with him? Yeah. Brilliant. I fell on his bum. Oh my god, he's so like ripped. I know, it was great.

Wow. You can scratch the itch, although that wasn't when I was married. Right. But you know. You want to try it when you're married then. But you know. Write one for yourself. It's free snogs. This is what we get.

Yeah. And that's why a lot of actors, again. Matthew Lewis, your friend. Oh yeah. Well you had a romantic relationship. I got to have free snogs with him. And he's ripped now. He's ripped.

And this is the other thing that a lot of people don't talk about about actresses is that what's the word for like sex addict? Like is it hyperphiliac or something? What's it called? Oh I don't know. Coppophiliac? What's the word for a sex? Coppophiliac? Someone who's like rampant all the time. Oh. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac.

Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac. Necrophiliac is the one that... She's like shit. The dead people. Oh, right. Necrophiliac. Right, okay.

If you actually look at some of the top actresses out there that are working all the time, I'm not going to name who I know, isn't it? I love that this is just like being presented as absolute pure fact. Go on. Why wouldn't she be? If she's working all the time with hot actors, of course she's going to be an infamaniac. The crushes though are when you're, I think it's genuinely so hard. Have you had it? Because obviously you've done a lot of acting. Are you saying you've never done any romantic scenes apart from with Ron Weasley?

Oh, so the only romantic thing was with Ron Weasley, which was, you know, that's, you're a teenager, you're playing teenagers, so it can't be kind of, you know, hypersexual. And then, so the only job I got directly after Harry Potter was a western play, which was the lowest point in my life and career. And I'm pretty sure I've been blacklisted. What was it? I think you think, by the way, there is no blacklist. Like, I think you think that there are people sitting around being, no, she's, no, what, just cave? No, no, she's brought too much weight. No, no, no, put her on the blacklist again. No, no.

I know I sound like I'm a fantasist here, but I genuinely think I was blacklisted. What happened? Can you tell us everything? I can tell you everything. I've talked about it so much, but I genuinely, I'm still dealing with it, the trauma. Okay, I think you'll appreciate this, actually. So basically, it was, I was playing a 13old, and then my character was in a Tom Stoppard play, Arcadia. It was a comeback for the director, so it was a lot of pressure for him. My person I was playing opposite was Daniel Stevens, Dan Stevens, big time actor now. This is pre-Downton Abbey, pre-Hollywood superstar.

And the first run through in front of all the board, producers, directors, everyone, the director comes up to me and he says, I hadn't done the kissing scene yet. There was one kissing scene, bit fucked up. She's 13, whatever. It's an old fashioned play. And the director... Bring it back. The director comes up to me and is like, darling, I need you to really become Thomasina in this run through. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Inside I was thinking, because that's what acting is. Don't worry. I know. He's like, no, darling, I really need you to become Thomasina. I need you to come to see that. And when you kiss Septimus, I need you to become Thomasina

and really kiss Septimus. I need you to become Thomasina. Kept saying it over and over again in my face. So silly. I was like, this is, come on. This is so pretentious. What I'm going to do is I'm going to do some acting. Yeah. I'm going to act. Yeah. I'm going to kiss him. Your direction that you're giving me there is do some acting. Do acting. So I was like getting a bit, you know, I was finding it hilarious. But it was getting, it was putting you in your head. And it just was, I just found it so ridiculous that he was speaking in my face and kept saying the same thing over and again, showed that he was very nervous. I guess he was proving that the casting was right for me, for his big comeback. I now realize there was a lot going on, but it was really inappropriate. He was in my face, kept saying, become Thomasina, become Thomasina. At this point, I was quite immature. I was 22. And I said back to him in an American accent,

chill out man. Jessi No. Sorry, was the character American or? Jessi No, no, this is me, Jessi's talking to the director, the big time director. I'm like, chill out man. Jessi But what? Okay, fine. Fine. He switches. He goes red. He goes instantly red. He grabs my shoulders, turns me around and starts shouting into my face behind a pillar so no one could see. He starts, grabs my shoulder and starts saying, don't you fuck with me, don't you fuck with me. And I know I shouldn't

have said chill out man in American accent like Bart Simpson, but at the same time, don't shout in a girl's face. But also weird that he got triggered by an absolutely outrageous and inappropriate and so presumably reported him to everybody. No, so what happened is he starts gripping me, shaking me, spitting my face and shouting at me. No one sees apart from the choreographer who's in the corner, she sees the whole thing. He then leaves me. She's like, I'm sure this isn't in the dance. Two minutes later, I have to go and start the rehearsal and then eventually kiss him

for the first time. My life changed in that moment because I was terrified. No one saw, apart from the choreographer came up to me at the end of the run through and was like, are you okay? I saw all of that. I know him. If you need me, I'm here. And I was so relieved. But then what happened is that I was too ashamed of myself. I was like, why did you say chill out man? Why did you say chill out man? This is your first Western job. Like why did you say chill out man? You ruined it.

Like you didn't at all think, hang on a second. This man's behaviour is wildly inappropriate, aggressive, violent, bordering on criminal. I had done something wrong. But you see, if it happened to you now, see I think about this, that's awful by the way, and I can see how it would be traumatizing to the point where you don't ever want to go back as well. But to finish the story quickly, it's a really long, awful story. But I tried to tell the other actors, but they were all, none of them either believed me or they believed what I

had done was really wrong. So they all didn't have my back. What? Saying chill out man in an American accent? Yeah, they thought that was absolutely... Like, well you did... They just thought it was really inappropriate and disrespectful. Yeah, it's amazing what people... It's amazing what people will do to avoid conflict and keep a job, yeah. So three weeks into rehearsal, at the end of it, the director finally comes up to me

and is like, darling, I only did that because I know how talented you are. Oh, yeah. Sure. And basically to cover his back. Classic. I spent the entire four month run terrified, but halfway through and the kiss ends up being this kind of like really big, that was the only romantic thing I've ever done and I had to kiss him every night for four months and he has, he didn't believe me about what this director had done and I became very like no

one really spoke to me after that in rehearsals. I was ostracised. And then what happened is maybe halfway through the run, I get called into a meeting with the director and I get blamed for the production. They say, your performance has altered the play. I was the youngest in the production and I'm told that I am to blame for everything and I then have to have extra lessons. What was the reason? What was the reason?

They just say that my vibe has changed or something. I'm just, I don't know what, but I'm just blamed for the how the play is skewing in the kiss, the kiss. What? So it's specifically the kiss? It's like the second half where the kiss happens. I'm basically told that, I don't know, I just suddenly felt like, okay, well, I'm obviously doing something extremely wrong. I'm performing awfully. I'm a terrible actress, all of this stuff. Now I think about it, I'm like, how insane that I was blamed for a show. Anyway, then I have to have private lessons every

day with the assistant director who, it was a nightmare. It was an absolute nightmare. And so, and I've never worked again in theatre. I've never even had an audition in theatre ever again. So I'm sorry. Like that's weird. Yeah, I don't, I have to do this myself. My own paranoia is like remind myself over and over again that there is no blacklist. But that is the sort of situation I take it back. Thank you. I take it back because it does feel deliberate. It feels like you, I mean, you clearly were

deliberately blamed for the bad behavior of a male director, which is sort of standard in the industry. Yeah. I mean, it's just like that kind of thing happens all the time in this industry. And we just have to put up with it and accept it. And that's okay. But it really ruins people. And I've got to this stage, I'm 37 now, I've had so many twisted experiences that are just normal, like in this industry. And it's really ruined me. And it's got to this stage where I are just normal, like in this industry, and it's really ruined me. And it's got to the stage where I'm just like, no, I'm not going to not talk about it now. I'm going to say something about how this man altered my entire confidence in my

early twenties. Like he destroyed my confidence. And that's, and I didn't even realise for years because I thought I had done something wrong. And it's just like, that's, and I didn't even realise for years because I thought I had done something wrong and it's just like that's just happened again and again and again to some people and it's just like how dare these men get away with this? How dare these directors get away with it? They're directors, they didn't write the thing, they didn't produce the thing, they're directors for hire and they had the power to ruin an actress, like that's not okay. Like in it, you know, talking about body dysmorphia and stuff like that, like those crucial years in your early 20s, 20 to 25 as a young woman in this industry, absolutely formative. And they, all of my

experiences, unfortunately, 2025, I'm still recovering from. Yeah, I bet. And so all of the choices I've made since then have either been like running away from or colliding with those things and trying to make something of, no, I'm going to talk about that or I'm going to escape from that. It's either, I choose either way really. So where are you now? I don't know.

I'm in a really interesting spot where I'm trying to be kinder to myself, except that I've made lots of mistakes with choices I've made in my career. Like I'm so cringed out by all of the work I've ever done. I spent 10 years, I spent 10 years in development. I've spent a decade of my life in TV development, writing scripts and getting rejected. And then finally, I was like, no, I can't do that anymore. I can't do development anymore. I'm never going to get anything made. That's okay. But then my brother died. And I wrote about that. Thank you. Yeah, it's I wrote... I'm so sorry about that. That's terrible.

Yeah, it's really terrible. I'm such a drag. Oh my God, I'm such a drag. But you're not though. The thing is, amazingly, somehow, you're not... Like it's still really funny. Okay, good. Like, don't be paranoid about that at all because everything you're saying is just so refreshingly honest and

with so much humour in it despite how difficult it is, must be for you to share it. So please keep going. No, I think I'm at a good point. I think I'm at a good point, like knowing that all of it's been really chaotic and stupid. And I'm not, I don't think I really, my main aim is not to be bitter. I don't want to be bitter with my career or bitter with how I did parenting. I don't want to be bitter about anything. I don't want to have regrets anymore. I do have a lot of regrets, but I don't want to have any, I don't want to make any new regrets by how I handle those regrets. But he died, my brother died, and then I got this opportunity to write a book. And it was a really small book deal, but he basically,

he said I could write whatever I wanted. And I think he felt so sorry for me. It was like three weeks after Ben died. And he was like, here's a little bit of money, write whatever you want. I'm so sorry. And so I did. And I spent nine months in the nine months after he died, writing this book about grief. It's a novel. Heather Miedema Sunset. Heather Miedema Yeah. And then I had such a nice time writing it because it was really dealing with sudden trauma. Because I believe grief is very different in how the death happens. And my brother died in a very extreme random way. Like one second he's here, the one second he's gone. And I believe that that is a

very different trauma and grief to somebody who, you know, you can prepare for their death or be warned about their death. So the book is about a sudden trauma, sudden loss. Anyway, then I got sucked back in in because then obviously you write the book. The TV deals come in. They don't come in, but you do have an agent who says it's actually a bit easier development if you already have a book because I mean, that's why so many adaptations happen because they want you want it. Yeah, they like, okay, it could be a bit easy. So you could cut out

a bit of the development, which is all I wanted to do anyway. So I was like, okay, okay, I won't care as much. I'll go back into the development thing. I've written the book so they can't change it. But sure enough, two things, two years later, the same thing happens. I get sucked back in. And you're still are you still in development? No, no, no, I got rejected after two years. That was my last attempt. And you're now just trying to... Never ever doing that again. So no more writing television, no more even trying to write television.

I need to just know what I want to do now, I think. I don't know what I want. You don't know yet. What I know I want to do is have no regrets about parenting and I do have regrets about how I, like my oldest two, like they went to nursery a lot because I was very much working and desperate and I want, you know, I didn't even think about the nursery thing. I just put them in. Yeah. But when I had these two, I was just like, no, I'm going to do this the way I wanted to do it. I want to be around more. I want to, I don't want, because the truth, I know that's really brutal to hear, but it just goes.

I know. I'm in that spot right now. And it's so, and I keep having these similar things where I'm like, so we have it all, technically I guess, we have it all in that we can work and we can have children. But when you're in those young years, it's so hard, isn't it? Because on the one extreme end, you've got this like trad wife thing, which again, I don't think is like, it's just like another really unhelpful thing, where it's like, it's such a joke, like the idea of staying at home with your kids. But also you have like a financial restraint, which is that we used to be able to exist in a society where you could survive on a single income while you looked after, while one person usually the mother looked after the children. Then also we've gone through feminism and an awakening and, you know, trying to

detach from domestic servitude. So there has also been, like that is probably one of the negative fallouts of feminism, I would say that we've all decided that like, we have to have it all. But it is, but like to come back around to it, because I'm also, it's so interesting because I am also struggling with this at the moment. I'm like, I kind of want to be with my toddler because she's only two. But I also want to work and I don't want to feel like I'm being left behind by an already brutal industry. Yeah. And you do get left behind. You do. And I've realised that very apparently with emails. So I've taken a step back maybe in the last few months and I just, oh my god my emails are hilarious because I just don't

get any. The only emails I get are from Pinterest. But I've always looked at you and thought yeah, you're this amazing example of someone who completely generates their own work, is so their own authentic artistic self. You are literally an artist, an illustrator. You make these fantastic Edinburgh shows and live performance shows. You can do stand up, you can act, you can write, you can paint and draw and make puppets, you're a podcaster. Like from my perspective, I've just always looked at you and been like, this woman is just, her output is astonishing. It did used to be, my output was more.

And you've got four kids. Yeah, but it's dwindled and I don't have the drive anymore. But I think the awful thing is that when you do get a bit of encouragement every so often, all you need as an artist is a bit of encouragement by the right person every so often. Just to be like, oh, you're doing okay, you know, you're doing the right thing, keep going, keep making. And if months go by and you don't get that little nod, that little encouragement, you do lose a lot of confidence and it's not anyone's fault apart from mine. So I don't know, and the industry

might now, that might be done for me, but I'm hoping in a couple of years when I've digested this feeling of failure that I have right now, I will be able to make something out of it, but I just don't have anything left right now. Burnt out. Completely burnt out and kind of devastated by certain decisions that have, you know, certain opportunities that didn't work out or certain things that didn't get made or, and it just gets to that level where you just can't keep

going without needing to address why. And I really can, I'm quite objective. I think that as a casting director, I could look at myself, as a producer, I could look at myself, you know, and I'm not, I just don't quite fit into anything. And, and that's okay. That's okay. But it's, it's quite, it's quite sad. But I think that that's, I think it's because you're so unique, but I think that that is your value, like everything that perhaps does make you feel like you're being kept out of something is the precise thing that obviously the people who do love your work respond to. The writing thing is the thing that's really got me lately.

So I got my second book deal when I was pregnant with my fourth child, naively assuming that, well, arrogantly assuming that I could do both, I could have a baby and write my second book. Didn't anticipate a lot of obstacles. really, like, three kids is mad. Four, especially 16 months after your third, is truly mental. And that's what I did. And I didn't think, I just didn't think it through. And I have the best little boy imaginable. Like, he is, he is, like, he was meant to be here on this planet, my fourth baby, but sometimes I'm like, I really bit enough more than I can chew. And I, everyone told me, every single person, my agent, you know, every single person who's got like a brain on them and is in this

industry was like, you know, yeah, are you going to stop now? You got to stop having kids. And I was like, I'm going to be fine. I can do it. I can do it. And I just really haven't. And so I'm just accepting that, okay, I've got this little boy and I've got these two little boys who are under three, and I've got to get them to school. Got to get them to school. They've got to get to school. And then when they're at school, imagine. And we also have to move out of London because, you know, we- So you're moving out of London? Got to move out of London. Just be able to afford to have four children because no one in our area-

It's a big house. No one has more than two kids in our area because- Of course they don't. But everyone up north has more, right? Yeah. They do. They do actually. Yeah, they do. Yeah. They do. That's why there's no school places.

There's someone at my school with five yeah. They do. That's why there's no school places. There's someone at my school with five kids. Yeah. But that's what I want. I'm on a five. I'm not gonna, I'm gonna stop though. There's so much to talk about. But we have to talk about your perfect day because-

I feel like we need to be able to talk about some more positive stuff so you can edit out all my negative stuff. No. This is, it's just a great start. This is going to be one of the episodes- You cried. I love it. I just love you. I just think you're so honest and you're so just you're so being being so truthful and true to yourself and that is just it's just great.

Okay, but I just need to say for the listeners who might not know who the hell I am and be listening to this and be like, why is this woman, why has she been allowed on this talk about all of this awful stuff? She's like, I know I'm in a bit of a weird spot right now and I'm giving off an energy. There's a lot of strange stuff happening. So I don't know what it is. But I think, but also I keep hearing this and I don't know if it's just our age and especially women and women with kids, but not just women with kids. I think it's just a really hard time. Modern life is really tough going. Capitalism is spun out of control to the point where it's like television is now just as we sit in a tech company recording our podcast,

but like TV has been taken over by like massive global tech companies. It's really hard to be an artist right now. Like it's hard to be a writer. It's hard to be an actor. It's hard to be a true artist as you are and survive in this world. So it's just like, I think it's a culmination of all these things like motherhood, womanhood, capitalism, a sinking TV industry where we would normally have got our stable income from. Everything's changing. It's just like, it's just really hard. Even Edinburgh Festival this year was a complete example of that because it felt like it was just dead. And it's because there's such little money now around. Dead.

You did two shows this year. I did two. Yeah. And it was a disaster. My solo show was a disaster. The one I did with Alfie was great. Surprise, surprise. It was a disaster. Surprise, surprise. It was a disaster. It was a disaster. Not because of my show, which I actually was quite proud of in the end. It was the lack of support as a mother there. Like I got someone putting

a complaint about my kids. What do you mean? So I had to set up, you know, with a very short period of time. But my mum is also my stage manager and my set designer. She makes my puppet thing, which I'm not very good at doing. So she had to just literally come in, put my puppet frame up. So I didn't have to worry about that. And I can set up my puppets. I sound mental. Which meant that obviously she's my childcare.

So my four kids every day, I just, the first week I was like, right, come in, sit in the front row, Bobo, they call her Bobo, is going to set up the puppet frame. I'm going to set my puppets, you sit there for 10 minutes, you don't move and then we'll leave. And then my mum takes them. We did that for three days and within three days we got a complaint about the kids just making the next show late. They basically blamed my kids for something completely not their fault. The show before me had run on. It was nothing to do with them. And it was just an example of how there is no help for mums in Edinburgh Festival. But there's no help for mums full stop. There's no help for mums in Edinburgh Festival.

But there's no help for mums full stop. There's no help for mums full stop. And every comedian who I know who has kids either don't bring them to Edinburgh or don't go. Yeah, I mean, I honestly thought about it because I went up last year to go and scout it out. I went with a deliberate aim of trying to get jealous. Right.

Oh, I love that. I was like, I'm going to go, I'm going to watch loads of shows and I'm going to come back and I'm going to be so jealous that I'm going to have to write an Edinburgh show for next year. I was not jealous. I saw some really good stuff. But my husband was like, how are we going to do this though? Like this place is not designed, we're not going to be able to bring two kids. Like this is going to be a nightmare. So I was like, I'll just leave it. I don't like meetings at all, but I did have a meeting to try and talk to somebody about maybe setting up a crush or something for performers. And everyone was like, that sounds

like a great idea. Yeah, we'd love that. But it's quite tricky because of this and because of this and because of this and because of this. And I was like I was like well of course yeah but is it on me now to do? Yeah we're not doing it because it's easy. We don't want to set up a question because we think it's going to be really straightforward. No one wants to do it basically. That's why it hasn't happened. We need to talk to it. Which means that the Edinburgh Festival is only going to get more ageist. It's only going to be for younger performers who don't have kids. Okay.

Hello. Jessie, what's your perfect morning, please? Okay. We'll have to rattle through. Right, we'll rattle through. Don't worry. It was one of the longer intros. One of the longer, more intense intros you've ever done in your life or ever listened to.

I loved it. So we're just going to, this is how we're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it. intro. One of the longer, more intense intros you've ever done in your life or ever listened

to. I loved it. So we're just going to, this is how it's going to be. This podcast is going to have a long intro and then we're just going to rattle through the perfect day and that's fine. Okay. So I have gone for a very simple, so basically in my perfect day, calories don't exist. Yeah. And you don't get sugar crashes You don't feel bad Like you can eat a hundred percent sugar all day and not feel like death Yeah, because there's no guilt and there's no yeah No calories, I think I would eat a hundred percent sugar all day if I didn't feel so like terrible anyway

So you just get the pure off on a tangent So you just get the pure... Again off on a tangent. No! This is not a tangent free zone. My ideal day is waking up in like a glorious house and being able to go out onto my veranda and dive into a clean lake. So we're in Sweden or somewhere like that. Like in that, you know, did you see that show, like something about the lake with Nicole

Kidman before she had all the surgery? I wish she wasn't. She was a police officer or something in Norway. It's great, isn't it? It's so great. I love it. I love the way they come up with this stuff. She's a Norwegian.

Sorry, what are you pitching? So this does get greenlit. Yeah, she's a Norwegian police officer who lives by the lake. Nicole Kidman looks nothing like Nicole Kidman anymore. She's a Norwegian police officer who lives by the lake. Nicole Kidman is nothing like Nicole Kidman anymore. She dives into a lake. Sounds like. Is this like a memory? Have you stayed in a place like this? Oh no, no, no. This is from TV. This is Nicole Kidman.

Yeah. So dive into a beautiful, clean lake, swim out, and then I'm at my local coffee shop, which is my favourite place in the world. But the deal with going for a coffee as a family, Alfie doesn't like being seen in public with us. He's worried he looks like a cult leader, which to be fair, my long hair, I do look quite Amish. And sometimes you wear a headband as well, don't you? Oh, I do. I like the Amish look. Is that a joke? No, he genuinely doesn't like... On the tube, he does feel quite awkward because he looks like he looks like he decided to have all these kids. And also because he's got this long beard.

They are all his aren't they? Oh yeah, they're all his. Oh my god. Yeah, and he loves them. But he also doesn't want to seem like he's a cult leader. Yeah, okay. Have you got a car by the way? No, but we're gonna have to get one, aren't we? Jesus. Poor environment. We're gonna have to get... How can I afford an electric car? Because I don't want to kill the environment. Well, you need an electric van though, don't you? An electric van. Anyway, so we go for a coffee at our local coffee shop, which we love, but Alfie doesn't like going there with all of us because every time we go as a family, he

likes to say we destroy people's weekends because we cause so much noise and invariably the kids do spill their baby chinos. So it would be a very calm coffee with us as a family, which is my dream. They're all just on their best behavior. Also, this is also my day is very much based around sex. Oh yes, we haven't had it. Do you know what? We actually haven't had a lot of sex on the podcast, which is shocking. So, because obviously if it's a dream day, my dream day would involve like sex a lot. Great, finally. So the kids go somewhere safe, they're safe. You can go to like a barn.

Another part of the lake across another barn across the other side of the lake. Go back to the lake. Yeah. Yeah. Have lakeside sex. Yeah, that'd be great. Right. I'll go through. Is it is it Alf? It's all Alfie. It's all Alfie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's are you back together then? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I can't I mean, obviously, we can't keep up. Nobody can. But congratulations. Oh, God. Yeah, we only break up for three months last time. I think this time we're set. I think we're set. We're good to go now. Great. Happy for you.

Thank you. I do love him. What about your perfect afternoon? We go to be in Cure, your perfect afternoon? We go to B&Q on my perfect afternoon. So you've had sex, just like a quickie or a longie? Because I think B&Q is the horniest place in the world. Really? B&Q, I think I get so turned on in B&Q, it's kind of obscene. Do you get turned on by, what's the nature of being turned on?

I think just the idea of builders. Really? It's just so exciting. So we're trying to do up a house at the moment and we have accidentally hired a builder. He's a painter, but he's Aquaman. Oh no. It's actually Jason Momoa who we hired. It's amazing.

But also quite funny. It's so arousing all the time. And so I'm basically... So you're just thinking about, you're thinking about the thought of being with Aquaman as you're walking around being cute or are you seeing different Aquaman? No, it's more the idea that I'm buying supplies for Aquaman. To bring back to it, yeah. Like buying tape, like paint. I think painters tape is one of the sexiest things. I love tape. Love tape. So anyway, me and Alfie walking around B&Q.

What do you love about tape? Just I think I can never have enough tape. Can you have do you like tape? I actually quite like wash. What's it called washy tape? Yeah, love all washy tapes. Right. Okay, so we're back in B&Q. Me and Alfie are having a great time fantasizing in B&Q. Then we go through a drive-through place with a, and get a Frappuccino. Oh yeah. Because up north I didn't, I love how many drive-through Starbucks there are. Yeah, we're not getting out of our car because it's, we're lazy and it might be cold. And you don't really mind that Starbucks might be evil up there. So I love it. Just go past the Frappuccino drive-through. Right, so then this is my good bit. This is like how I prove to the listeners that I'm a good person, okay? So my idea, genuine, I really did have this

idea when I had my fourth baby and I kind of think I had PN, what's it called? Post mental depression? Yeah. Didn't think I had it, but I think I did. Why don't hotels exist? Because my favourite thing in the world is hotels. I love hotels. Love them. Why don't hotels exist for new mothers? Oh my god, like in South Korea? Yeah. Do you know what I'm talking about? No. Right, because you said yeah. But I also could tell that you meant no. Carry on describing what and then I'll tell you.

Imagine if it's exactly the same. Yeah, I think it might be. So it's a hotel, but like a good one, like a posh one, where there's all like there's a nice bath, there's like beautiful beds, there's like endless Netflix, we don't have to log in, it's just there. Because who can remember the login anyway you see you're watching Netflix you're a new mum but you're allowed to have the odd whenever you need to check in to the new mum hotel because you're having a bit of a bad time you can just check in for a day and you don't even worry you know if you're breastfeeding you don't what they

have everything sorted they don't you can just check in have a night on your own in the new mum hotel and then go back to your life. But you bring the baby. You can bring the baby if you want. I would bring the baby so I could because I think that would be great. But if you if you need a break, you actually just need a break. And then imagine the common room. Imagine how much group therapy you do in the common room. Think how fun it would be. So basically this is my version of my social activity. By the way, this is such a good idea. Like women's hospitals used to have a convalescence after you'd had a baby and you'd just lie in bed and the nurses would look after you and your baby for

like a week, maybe two weeks. And obviously we scrapped that. Scrapped everything. But in South Korea, they still have that. Where is it they do that in, is it Germany or Finland? I think it might be Germany, you know. They get, everyone gets a doula for a wit for the first week. In Finland you get a cot, you do get like a, you get a cot, a cardboard cot full of nappies, clothes.

Yeah, I saw that. That's amazing. We are really bad. We're so bad. No wonder we're all depressed, you know? So I feel like I would like to do something to help that, but I won't ever do that in my life. So that's my perfect day. I go and like solve all the childcare, like motherhood issues for the world. And then I go and read because I never have time to read. And then I have loads of sweets while I'm reading. And I don't fall asleep when I'm reading, which is great. So I sleep apnea, I fall asleep when I read.

Yeah, sleep apnea. Yeah, bad or sleep apnea, which is also I think why I'm so depressed. Because I don't sleep. I just don't sleep. Oh, Jesse, why have you been miserable all your life? Oh, maybe it's because you've never slept. But isn't sleep, I didn't know you could get sleep apnea. I thought it was like a thing that people get like old men in their six. Old fat men. Yeah, no, it's me. Wow. Did you have to, did you have to go to one of those sleep clinics to get diagnosed?

Weirdly today, I had my first zoom about it. I've never been, they give you a test, like a home test kit, but it's absolutely pointless because if you have true sleep apnea like I do, putting something in your nose and on your heart and on your wrist and you're meant to... it's meant to monitor you all night to see if you've got sleep apnea, it's bullshit because if you have true sleep apnea you're moving around the whole night. Really? It's not gonna stay in. So I've tried to do the sleep testing on my own, it's not worked. So I'm actually now going to have to go private and I'm going to have to pay to have a, I'm going to have to stay in a place and they're going to monitor me as I sleep. Because it's so bad. I'm going to have to have one of those really unattractive machines. I was going to say you're going to have to have an oxygen, is it an oxygen mask or something like that? It's called a CPAP machine. But we don't sleep together in the same bed anyway, so it's fine. It's not going to kill, you know, it's not going to be the, it's fine. It's not going to kill the vibe. You're not going to be like, can I put my mask on? Do

I not put my mask on? Are we going to do this? So it's fine. I think he's so desperate for me to sort it out that it's going to be good. Oh my God, such a nightmare. So then, oh, in my perfect day, I don't have sleep apnea. Really? That means I have more sex. So then, oh, in my perfect day, I don't have sleep apnea. Really? That means I have more sex. Wow. And then-

It's a very frisky day. Well, you just got to pack it in. Right. So then we just had end of the afternoon with more sex. More sex. But this time it would be like freaky sex. Okay. Like some kind of sex that like you would never usually have, like some kind of

ridiculous, like medieval sex. I don't know what that means. Yeah. Fit. With like props. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've ridiculous like medieval sex. I don't know what that means. Yeah, what fit. With like props. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've never had prop sex. So it'd just be the day to get that all in. Fantastic. So maybe you're in some sort of medieval chamber. Yeah, or you know those Viking hats? I think that would turn me on.

Oh, your viking hat. Yeah, I'd love a viking actually. Alfie can be a viking and I can be some kind of mermaid. And we can make that work. Yeah. And in this scenario, we both wouldn't laugh. It would be deadly serious. Yeah.

And effective. Yeah. Okay. I think I'm going to say that I think you can make this happen. I think I could. I don't, the problem is I would laugh. I would laugh and then it wouldn't be as sexy. So this is in this, I'm not going to laugh.

I don't know though. Do you not think that it is sometimes it is still sexy when you laugh? Not like I laugh. No, no, I don't think so. I think it's really a turn off actually. Yeah. Anyway, so that's a really fun afternoon that we've had with our like B&Q trip. And that yeah, the medieval sex ends the afternoon. Heather Hyslop Fantastic. What a way to end the day. Emma Cunningham I don't know where the kids are at this point. Heather Hyslop Doesn't matter. Emma Cunningham Yeah, okay.

Heather Hyslop Well, they're in the hotel, in the lovely lake. In the hotel that you've made for new mothers. Emma Cunningham They've learned to swim in the lake and they're reading books to the new mothers. Heather Hyslop Yeah. And there's someone who's just very happy to look at, well, probably your mum really, isn't it? Yeah. Somebody who works at the hotel is really good with kids. Yeah. And I had to pay her. Amazing. Because you invented the hotel. All right. So under normal circumstances, would you just don't eat, you'd rather just not?

Yeah, I don't stop for a meal. I have like a bar or I have a frappuccino or a coffee or like I eat a lot of nuts. So many nuts. So I don't stop for lunch. Are you vegan? I read very vegan. Yeah, you do. Yeah. But I'm a semi vegan. I'm a flexi vegan. So I'm vegan most of the time, but then I do eat yogurt when I want. Not soy yogurt. Not soy'm vegan most of the time, but then I do eat yogurt when

I want. Not soy yogurt. Not soy, staying the hell away from soy yogurt. By the way, did we finish that just to circle back to the soy yogurt? Why is it bad to eat it again? So basically, if you eat a ton of soy yogurt, and I mean like a whole tub three times a day, not just like a little bit on your whatever, you do something to your hormones, which is devastating. Is it estrogen?

It does something to your estrogen. And what happened was I became very cold all the time. Very cold and very fat all the time. So like a thyroid thing? Yes, it affects your thyroid. So I probably will eventually have a thyroid problem. My mom has one, I have one. But you know what cured my polycystic ovaries? Well, not didn't cure it. I definitely have very strange periods, but pregnancy. Yeah, I think I don't have it anymore. I definitely have elongated symptoms. I think I have the worst PMS of any human. So I now

think that my period, weirdly, I only had like five periods ever before I got pregnant. And then I got, then after my four babies, I'm finally at this stage having regular periods for the first time, regular being like six weeks apart. But I believe that my six week cycle is all, I have all the things that you're meant to have in the cycle, but it's all double time. What? Which means my PMS is double time. Oh no. As in like hormones.

Which is contributed to my depression. Good God. But also there's a lot of like self-diagnosis, like you haven't actually got a sleep apnea diagnosis, you also haven't actually got a diagnosis for double PMS. Okay, well, I... Not to undermine you, because I believe women. But it is funny. But my parents are doctors. Oh, my dad's a doctor.

Really? Yeah. They were GP, my dad's a GP, my mom stopped working. But yeah, all my family are doctors. All my brothers are any doctor. They all have proper jobs. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm from a long line of GPs. My dad's an anaesthetist, or was retired, but yeah, my mum's a physio. But I believe when you have doctors in your family, you do get quite good at diagnosing yourself. Yeah, well you just overhear things and then repeat them. Yeah, and then you constantly think you're dying.

My parents were very bad at diagnosing my genuine illnesses, they don't know about you. Well, because they dismiss them. Yeah, and then you can't sleep if you're dying. My parents were very bad at diagnosing my genuine illnesses. They don't know about you. Well, because they dismiss them. Yes. Yeah, they either dismiss or say you're dying. Yeah, so they're very, very serious. Or what my dad does is he says he's also got it. Right. He's absolutely gutted when it comes to gynaecological things because he can't, he's got nothing, he can't, he's like, well, it's probably nothing too parsley to most. They live for the rare cases because most stuff is so boring. So like, oh, but this

could just be a cold or and they love it. So it's quite I whenever I always worry about telling my dad anything. So I'm like, I'm going to be told that I'm dying. Yeah, they get very worried though, don't they parents? I genuinely have sleep apnea and very, very long PMS, slash severe depression. So I do need to go to a doctor about that. But the thing is, I don't want to go to a doctor about the period stuff because they're going to be like, why you complain? Like you've got four kids, like you've got six week cycles, you've got PM, what's the big deal? But what well yeah they do do that a bit although this was great because I have, I'm glad we're talking about this and we are just going to talk about it. I have had very heavy periods guys, there are any men still listening. They've gone, there is not a single male listening.

It's a good job, it's at the end of the podcast anyway. But as Brett Goldstein said to me the other day, the good thing about your podcast is that no one, he was like, the problem with mine is that people really like films, so they want to, they really have come for the films. They'll stay for the chat. He was like, at least on yours, like no one actually minds if you don't do the format because no one's a fan of days. But I went to the doctor about it and they were like, okay, don't worry, we'll refer you to a gynaecologist. And on the same day, my husband went to the doctor

about, because he had his toe hurt. So he just went in and said that his toe hurt. And then we both got referrals and mine was to a gynaecologist and the referral was 17 weeks. I had to wait for 17 weeks and he got referred to whatever a bone person is to do with feet. And it was a private, it was like one of those appointments that was like actually the NHS paid for him to go to a private hospital. The next day and he got a steroid injection basically like the following week and I'm still waiting for my appointment. It's like, what you've got to do is you've got to be a man whose toe hurts. Yep. But don't go and tell them that you've got heavy periods and you're bleeding out.

That's amazing. It's tragic, isn't it? It really is. Let's hear your perfect night. I'm happy to just talk about periods. My perfect night is just talking about your periods. Actually just getting a group of women together in a circle. My perfect night is talking about yours.

In a circle, one by one, we talk about our favourite and worst periods. Anyway, let's hear your perfect night please. So it's hearing about your periods in a fancy cinema. Oh, look, cinema. Oh, sofas. With all my kids and we're watching a film that's appropriate for all of us, which is actually any film because I've let them watch 18 already. Have you?

No, not 18, but they are watching. What's the worst film that you've let them watch? Oh my god. Well, series-wise, I'm letting them watch. They've just finished Superstore. Superstore is quite rude. Oh, is that the... Yeah. It's brilliant. They watch a lot of comedy, which is quite rude, but I let them. Like we're watching them. I'm watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Modern Family.

I watch The Simpsons with my kids. Simpsons all the time. Simpsons is the... Because it's perfect because the bad stuff goes over their head. Yeah, they don't get it. Yeah. Yeah. And they laugh.

I mean, she'll laugh along anyway, even though I know she doesn't get it because she wants to join in. Yeah. The Simpsons, I think, is the perfect starter. I think it's fine. Yeah. No, so they haven't... I thought you were going to say like the substance or something. We all went to see the substance.

Anyway, yeah, so go on. So fancy cinema. Fancy cinema with all my kids, we're all having a great time. The dinner is five guys chips, because they're the best chips in the world, I think. Then they go to bed. Oh no, what happens is I have this massive guilt about reading. So I feel like the best thing you can do with your kids is read. I love reading them when they're young. The three bedtime stories before

bed is my favorite part of the day. Absolutely golden. Won't sacrifice that for anything. But as they get older, it becomes more tricky because- They don't want you to read to them anymore. Mine still want me to read to them, but it's just so late by the time that I get them to bed because I put the two younger ones to bed and then when I finally get Donnie and Margo to bed, it's like 9, 15 before I'm out of the bedroom. Then I'm like, okay, now I'm meant to read to you. And it's like performing. Like I, my voice has gone at the end there. I'm knackered. I just want to eat my dinner. I just want to watch something like, so I

really struggle with that. And every couple of, every three or four days I manage and I read them and I manage to get them to bed early enough that I can read them and it's amazing. But on my perfect day, it wouldn't even be an issue. It'd be like something just happened naturally. I don't, And it's early enough. It's early enough and it's not exhausting and I didn't have to do any weird accents. And also it's just, that's the best gift I think you can give your kids is the gift of reading. And I'm just trying to tell them like, just get into reading. Nothing else matters. Like it helps you so much with what I mean, you get to think about 11 plus

and stuff like that. It's just the number one thing all of the teachers say is no matter what if they're reading 20 minutes a day, that's all they need to be doing. So I just, I'm dying for them to get obsessed with a book. Heather Miedema So beautiful. Kate mountain and watch a sunset. I've never watched a sunset. What? Never watched a sunset. Like on a cool place, like in a cool, I've seen a sunset. Oh, right. You've never been like, right, I'm going to go deliberately watch a beautiful sunset. Go to a viewing point. Exactly.

Yeah. Right. Okay. So we're on a romantic mountain, we watch a romantic sunset, and then we fly back environmentally friendly and we watch succession as if we've never seen it. Great. I can't believe succession's in your perfect day. And then we have some kind of weird ascent. And then it's straight down to the medieval torture chamber. I play Shiv in the medieval torture chamber. And he is Logan.

Actually, he's Roman. I love Roman. Oh, wow. That's so great. Was that everything? That's it. Oh my God. So what a wonderful, perfect day and night, Jessie. Thank you. Thank you so much. I've just got one more question for you. We've added a new question. What is a piece of perfection that you'd recommend this week? I wouldn't say it's perfect, but I did really get a lot out of it. I've just finished Yellowstone.

Oh, yeah. out of it. I've just finished Yellowstone. The series Yellowstone. I've just finished that series and I've just finished that. The perfection of it is the landscape is beautiful. It's like you feel like you've gone there to this ranch in the middle of nowhere. It's stunning. It's so stunning that it doesn't need to be, it can have plot holes. You know, it can have a lot of plot holes. Great. Okay. Well, I'm adding it to the list. I haven't seen that. Jesse Cave. It's been a roller coaster. It's been absolutely delightful. I think you're actually going to have to do trigger warnings on this one. Your first trigger warning. Yeah, maybe we might. But that's okay. I think that's great. I'm so I'm just so happy that you opened up to me. I

feel very privileged. Don't feel privileged because I will open up now to literally someone at Charing Cross station in a minute. I will buy one of my bars and I'll open up about my trauma. Right. I take it back. I don't feel special at all. But thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for coming on and telling us your perfect day very quickly at the end of a massive chat. I really appreciate it. And to be continued, please. Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. It's probably going to be so mental. Yep, there she is, wasn't it? Don't you think? Just a bit. To hear more from Jessie, follow her on Instagram for goodness sake, at jessicave. You can follow links to her sensational book,

Sunset, and you can see when she's performing or you can buy one of her doodles. I mean, there's just so much of Jessie Cave you can buy and do and see. And if you also find B&Q sexy, I'd like to know. Is it the tape for you? Is it the outdoor plant section? Perhaps it's the paint samples. I get it. Let me know. And I mean that. I'm here for the interaction. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at Perfect Daycast and like and subscribe for all our upcoming Perfect Day news. From Yorkshire with love, I'm Jessica Knappett, wishing you a perfect day.