PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Are the Eagles really going to cut bait with Dallas Goedert?

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

We’re back from the league meetings and ready to get to ball, with the big question dangling from the owners meetings being the apparent looming departure of Dallas Goedert. Are Howie Roseman, Jeffrey Lurie and Nick Sirianni really willing to cast aside their No. 3 option in the passing game without an obvious replacement? And who are the Tush Push enemies?It’s a full cast, with Jamie Lynch and Devon Given in studio with Bo Wulf before Zach Berman joins the fray. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

the PHA White Eagles show on a beautiful Wednesday, Jamie Lynch, Devon Givens, joining me in studio. I am Bo Wolf. We will be joined by Zach Berman in just a little bit. But before we do that, Devon, how you doing? Let's talk some birds. Yes, I'm doing good, man. You've been, you've been itching to get some birds take.

I have been. I was so excited to join you guys that night. I knew you would be. Yeah, man. Yeah, this is good. In a past life, Beau, you know, we got to talk about all four all the time. All four, some pregame shows I had to do for me. Yeah.

This is fun. And actually the two of you will be live on scene on draft night. Yeah. PJ McGillacutties. Yes. In Mania. Yeah. Old J.D.'s, an old frequent stomping ground of mine have been there many, many times.

So if you're in the Maniunk, Roxborough, East Falls area, plan on joining us Thursday night of the draft. It should be a fun time. And if you're really wanting to get into the draft conversation, good place to do it. It's all p.gloy.com. We've got the Eagles 100 where we have paired down France. Fans extensive scattered reports on so many draft prospects into the guys who you need to know ahead of the Eagles draft. We're also going to be at JD McGillacutty's the Thursday prior to the draft with a nice big conversation because Fran, you, Jamie, should be fun. Yeah, I think, you know, the whole staff is invited to come out.

Giant whole staff. Yeah, and just have a big old draft summit. It's draft month, you know. April Fool's is over now in the clear. Did you do any April Fool's in the house? No, we talked about pranking the kids, and we totally forgot. Did you pull off any? Well, I didn't get home until midnight, but Casey had wanted to prank me,

and so they did, they hung a cup of like, you know, a bunch of mishmash stuff so that when I would open the door, it would fall down on me. But Rachel didn't want it to actually make a noise at night, so she set it up as if it had been done, showed me what it was, and then, you know, do a little white line there. right there yeah pretty quiet in mine yeah it did nothing and it's always tough too because my grandmother's birthday is April first okay so it's always one of those don't do much you know just let grandma you know she's still young one of my uh go-toes as a you was uh to either get packing tape or scotch tape poke a couple holes in it and then put it over the faucet so that way when you turn it on it would like

spray out all sorts of directions that's fun's a good one a little little bit of a richer move by me but that was one of my go-toos. That's fun. It's not bad. I'm going to teach that one to do it for a couple years from now. All right, let's talk, let's talk, Bert. The thing I want to ask you guys about is how you feel about the Dallas Goddard situation. So just to recap, all three of the Eagles power players who spoke down in Palm Beach,

Harry Roseman, Nick Siriani, Jeffrey Lurie, all sort of spoke about Dallas Goddard as if he was already gone. And for instance, Jeffrey Lurie says, you know, he was asked about it, and he says, so whether it's C.J. Gardner Johnson or Dallas or Milton Williams, whoever it is, we've got to do what we think is best for the franchise in terms of winning big, but it's for all of us. These are not names. These are human beings. What we've really been through with them, all that stuff. But he's lumping them in with guys who are actually already gone.

And on the one hand, that makes sense to me, everything that they have talked about this offseason about, you don't, don't want to pay the middle of the market. You want to pay your superstars and not your other guys. And the amount of money that Dallas got it is making or set to make next season is probably more than they think he deserves, given as injured as he has been. And yet, I'm a little bit, my spidey sense on, they're doing so much of it. They're going so aggressively like, well, yeah, like we love Dallas, but he's basically gone

that I am now starting to wonder if this is like their way of negotiating and just, trying to get him to come back on a cheaper number. So from A, how much will you miss Dallas Goddard if he does leave? Where do you stand, Devon? I would miss him a lot. Number one, because, look, when the Zachertz part started, when Zachertz looked like he was tailing off a bit, they made the decision to draft Dallas Goddard,

to have the replacement in-house in the event that it was time to move on, which they eventually did with Dallas Goddard. Where's his replacement? They haven't done it. Jalen Hurts doesn't throw the ball to Grant Calcutera all that much. and he doesn't throw it to your third wide receiver or even your fourth wide receiver, all that much either. And watching you guys all season

and especially paying as close attention as we all did during the run down the stretch and in the postseason when Dallas got to miss that time, you guys weren't just talking about the past catching. It was the blocking that they missed a bunch. As great as the offensive line is. As great as the offensive line is.

Exactly. As great as the offensive line is and was, and we'll see what they look like with some of, you know, some replacements there going into next season. But that was got as a big part of their blocking as well. So when Grant Calcutara was out there being a blocker or having another tight in there when they go 12 personnel

because they need to try to make sure that they do everything they need to create those spaces for, Sequin Barkley or whoever was running in football, you missed that part. So for me personally, yes, I would miss them because he has made a huge impact on this offense for many years now. He's made big plays, the Saints game we talked about earlier in the season. The fact that he'll have a 10-year-old.

catch game out of nowhere because of whatever the focus is. You try to take out the other two wide receivers and he's the focal point and he's a big part of what they do. And again, just to go back to not having the replacement in-house, is this a June 1st thing? Is this drafting someone now that you're just going to put right on the field immediately as his replacement? I don't know. So that's why I look at it right now. It's a little puzzling because of that. Jeffrey Lurie, did you mean to say that in and lumping him in with those guys? I mean, Howie and Nick did a very similar thing. They talked about him in that vein and like he's with the guys who are already gone.

This is a clear. But like almost too purposeful. Exactly. Yeah. So that is funny because as you say, I mean, how many times do they also negotiate and renegotiate contracts in season early to make sure Lane Johnson is the king of it, of course, but they renegotiate things to keep guys here. Has he done that? I just, it is not really in the Eagles M.O. to cast aside an important offensive player when they don't need to,

and they're not getting great compensation back. Because if you're trading Dallas Goddard, you're probably getting a fifth. I was going to say a fifth, yeah. Right, at this point. Because there's going to be money owed to them. Listen, I know that they need to, I need to earmark money in the future,

but I don't know if that's really the business that they would do. How would you feel if they move on from Goddard, Jamie? I see both sides of it. I see why the Eagles want to get him at a more affordable. team number but like devon just brought up when dallas goddard was the replacement plan he was here you felt good about him there's nobody here that i feel good about do i feel good about starting anyone outside of like tyler war any rookie outside of tyler warren and feeling great about it not really no maybe lovelin i could be talked into but are they really going to spend their first round pick on a tight end right

probably not so there's no replacement plan here like i was okay when urts left a legend leaves and you're like, all right, well, I've got this kid Goddard, who I've seen a decent amount of, I feel fine about this, the Eagles are undeniably a better team when he's here. So like, they are going to get worse if they move on from them. Whether it's a rookie, whether it's

a scrap heap veteran that they sign. Tyler and Granson. Yeah, like, they're just going to be a worst team. So that's not cool. You know, like to keep it simple. Sure. So I hope you're right. I hope this is a negotiating tactic

by the team maybe. And I hope they can bring them back. Here's the one thing that I would say if you want to think about how they might be thinking about it internally in terms of replacement. Now, it's possible that they are just banking on this is a good class of tight ends.

We'll take whatever we can get in between whoever that is in the middle rounds and Grand Calcutterre and these two free agents we signed, we should be able to get by. I think the bigger thing could be, what if they view the replacement, not as one of the tight ends,

but just the number three option in the passing game, they feel better about Jahan Dotson than maybe we are led to believe based on how little he got the ball while he was here last year. That's the problem. As little as he got the ball,

where's the where's the tape? Right. It's like in the Super Bowl, Jill was willing to throw him the ball and now all of a sudden we can rely on him as a number three. It took you the Super Bowl to figure that part out. I mean, AJ Brown was down for a couple of weeks

and they were trying to follow up, obviously to slow down Devonte Smith and AJ Brown and Dowell. Scottard and you would think that he was open and you guys would be in the stadium you would be getting texts and saying yeah jehan dotson looked like he was open a few times and jalen hurts didn't throw him the football but to your point that part does make sense because you do have talented other talented receivers and jehan dotson being one of them that you could probably rely on and grant calcutara when he did throw the football his way he caught it he made a big play in one of the bigger games

that he that he had a big play down the field and and maybe jillan hertz will in fact trust them a little bit more. But going into the second round, third round, maybe drafting someone and bringing in a replacement potentially for that's got of course we can see it. Trust Howie Roseman to figure things out financially to get those things done. There's got to be a, there's got to be a room here. They have a plan. Yeah, there's got to be room here to squeeze them in. But is the plan the right one? That's the question. And we don't know that because now you're slipping in these words and with his name with these other players. You don't have other

guys in place. And the ones that you did sign in free agency, it's not knocking anybody by soccer. off of he's going to be the one to take over. And again, Grant Calcutera, they just simply doesn't seem like they trust him enough. We haven't heard enough about John. Grand Calcutera has made my meter move none. None. Oh, he's made some nice plays. Yeah, I'm saying, he's made some nice plays, but he doesn't get the targets. He doesn't get the targets to show that's true. Yeah, that's all. And look, I don't think he's not the block. And he's not through the ball. I don't think Seekwon Barclay is going to like get worse necessarily. So I'm not trying to frame it under that pretense. Well, it can't get better. But true. But true.

he's better when Dallas Goddard's there. Like the running game is optically just better when Dallas Goddard is out there. Yeah, all right. Gran Calcutera does nothing for me. Like he's fine, I guess. And I'm not trying to make Dalai, Grant Alcatara to be Brock Bowers.

I'm not excited, but I'm just saying that the replacement, we've seen in the past at least where the replacement is there. Yeah, for sure. The replacement is not there. And if they're going into this draft class thinking that the titans are good enough, as you said, the middle rounds, they go in and select the tight end and he's going to be good. Okay, great.

We'll pat him on the back and say he did a great job once again. I'm drafting someone that is coming in, made a difference immediately with that player. But right now, it's just, like, why? Why? Yeah. It seems avoidable. It does.

It does. All right, Devon, you've got to get going in a minute before you get going. How do you feel about the tush push? You know, everybody's talking about the tush push. Yeah. Do you feel like you need to be inserted into this conversation? I do. Oh, inserted into the tush push.

All right. Interesting. Yes, I don't think that was a mistake. I do need to be young wolf. I do need to share my thoughts on this conversation because it is very, very weak with the other NFL teams. This is really, really weak. The fact that you can't figure out,

because you can't figure out how to execute the play as well as or execute it well enough defensively to stop it and slow it down, now it's a play that you're worried about, which there's no information on that. If you're worried about safety and saying, I saw one of the coaches talking about how the safety, while it's not there now, I'm worried about later. Based on what?

Because you guys can't do it the right way. It's not the Eagles problem. But because Louvo has to leap over the line four times. That's what did this. I mean, come on. I mean, really, this is really bad as for the toughest guys in sports. There's some like real beta energy to me. Yeah. I mean, they have to go

get Roger Goodell involved. The toughest guys in sports and you I got I gotta take a step back and say you know what? This is not bad. We can get hurt. You guys are going out there laying dudes out every week. Every week with way

worse spearing things and now wearing the crown and all that stuff. The MetLife field is more problematic to NFL players than the tush pushes. Think about that. And then going, oh, it's a rugby play that... No, it's not. No, it's not. It's a quarterback sneak that they have found a loophole in it in a way that you can't stop it in a way that they acted it and you can't stop it. And

everybody's got their backup because we're all smart. We're all the best football people. And damn it, we can't figure this one thing out. So it has to go. Don't you think, though, that there is a case that from an Eagle standpoint, and listen, I think it is going to get banned. Oh, absolutely. Especially since they pushed it to do what? In two months. Absolutely.

When they rewrite the rules and they can just get the owners together without the coaches there, I think they are probably going to push through some kind of ban. It almost a gift to Eagles fans because if you didn't have enough like FU Energy, real Philly insulation after the Super Bowl when everybody was rooting for the Eagles, now this gives it back to you. This gives it back to you like us again. the league. We've got this again. Yeah, spin zone. It's like when Will Chamberlain scored 100 points, you know, they had to change the rules, you know, defensive and offensive three seconds,

you know, the rim went up a little bit. It's like you were so great and so dominant. Spin zone, the Eagles were that dominant that the league had to change the rules to counter them. And then all you're going to start to hear, though, again, is what is Jalen Hurts going to do now? If they've taken his... He's still going to pick it up, you dumb asses. Exactly. The quarterback sneak was fine. Like, Josh Allen doesn't do the touch push. I mean, they do it, But quarterback sneak. Josh Allen, he's a big guy. He can move the sticks.

You have a great offensive line. It gets done. They'll do that too. And you know why this is happening is because poor Mark Murphy and the Green Bay Packers were last in the league at fourth and one percentage. Very weak. They only picked up 55%. So maybe don't get a little chicken leg quarterback, get a guy that can squat some pounds. That one play that's always shown of Jordan Love.

It's really funny. Yeah, it is really funny. But it is weak. I think it's weak, both to your question. It's really weak. This is bad, but the Eagles will figure out a way to still make sure that they pick up the necessary yardage on those short yards. Please. Those quarterback sneaks, and they'll be just fine.

Use it as the little bit of momentum that they may need and go out there and destroy teams again. All right. Well, someone who is not weak, Devon Givens. I try not to be so much. We'll check it out on the PHY Sixers. Thank you, Devon. You've gone up at three, right? Yes, got to have you on and talk a little hoops at some point.

Listen, we're going to have a lot of free. time. You know, a lot of free time. All right, sounds good. Thank you so much, Devon.

Thank you. We are going to hear from our sponsors and then on the other side. We'll hear from our man, Zach Berman, who's going to join us. Do you hear about this,

Jamie? No, I did not. I hear about this guy was going around trying to convince the owners and the people to vote against the Tush-Bush vote for the band. Yeah, he's like,

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Zach Berman. Zach Hey. Hey, good seeing you guys. It's great to be back in Philly. few on the show. I enjoyed the first segment. I was, I was, I was envious. I wanted to be involved in the conversation. I, I actually think of the three, I agree, or I think Bo has what the Eagles are thinking nailed down the best in that I think they're looking at like the third receiver spot can kind of provide what that Goddard spot provided, that they can get by

with what they had, and then they can go with the third receiver spot otherwise. They can go with the third receiver spot otherwise. Julie's derailing the show, Zach. Pay her no mind. No, no, no, no. Julie's doing great. So I, yeah, but I hear what both Jamie and Devon were saying regarding like the lack of options at Tideen that it's not appealing.

I just think they look at this offense and they see AJ and they see Devante and they see Sequan Barkley and they say the offensive line and they're like, we'll be fine because I think they thought they were fine in the games Dallas Goddard was absent last year, despite what Professor Selman said. How are your travel, Zach? You know, I had a great time. Well, it's always good being home. It's always good coming home.

You know, it's, I talk about efficiency a lot. I get that. I probably overstayed it. See, the, the, the old, there's an old school part of me that, I don't know if, if you guys feel this way, after you're away for a long time, I love opening up the mail, right? What? Interesting. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Because what do you get interesting in the mail ever? I hate the mail. Oh, I got, well, I was, it was my birthday. So I got like birthday cards. Oh, we missed your members.

That's nice. And then. So you, so when you got back from your actual. trip and then went down to Florida, you didn't have, you didn't make it home in that interim. Oh, no, I've, I've been away for 12 days. Got it. Okay. I haven't been home in 12 days.

Okay. Yeah. So, actually, I, I turned on my computer and it was all my, like, stuff I was working on back on March 21st, right? So, and then, you know, I get, just looking through. All right. Outside the birthday exception here, what else is exciting? I got a derby bargaining invitation the other day, but outside of that, the male

sucks. Thank you notes. I got a nice a nice thank you note here from Claire and Sean Grieve. Yeah. Former MLB player Sean Green? These these tax documents I don't enjoy seeing but

yeah. But no, I opening up the mail I enjoy. Really? Okay. Yeah. The actual travels were good. Now, did we're the actual travels? Yeah, the travels were fine. I passed out last night writing and like I was just exhausted.

And so I. Do you write in bed? With a computer on the couch with my computer on my, on my lap or chest, whatever. Have you ever found yourself of sleepwriting? Yes, I woke up at 515. I finished a story on Jeffrey Lorry that everyone can see on all pHly.com. Please be a diehard. Subscribe now.

You can get post. You can get Bo's top 100. You get Franz draft guide. And we're going to have so much good draft coverage coming up during the next month. So make sure you check that out. Including on tomorrow's PHOY draft show with Fran Duffy. That will be at noon. And then starting tomorrow at 2 o'clock, we get into our position previews.

Zach, myself of the P.HL. Y'I Eagles show at 2 o'clock. And guess what? Very topical. We're starting with tight end. There you go. Well done. Good job there.

And then. And so, finish. finished writing, packed up, got in the car, returned the rental car, easy flight, easy security situation. Didn't have wife, at the, the airline I flew did not have Wi-Fi. Whoa. But lucky me, the Google Docs were all, you know, you can work on them off-line. Yeah, yeah, you can work on them offline.

I used to do that in my daughter's piano lesson because the Wi-Fi there didn't work, so I would just pre-load everything. It's a good little hack. Yeah, so it was much more. efficient on the flight than I had anticipated, which was good. There you go. Good to hear it. All right. I want to talk about something that you reached out about, Zach. It's a very good framing advice and something that you were doing some work on. And I think it's really good to see this laid out because it does recontextualize part of the

conversation we were having yesterday about, you know, the difference in the roster after they won the Super Bowl in 2017 versus after they won the Super Bowl this year. And I think the messaging from the Eagles is, well, you know, we're in a much different situation now than we were then because we have a much deeper coffer of young starters and we have many more draft picks at our disposal than we did then in part because of the Carson Wens trade and in part because of some of the things that Chip Kelly had done with the roster. And that second part is true. They definitely do have more draft inventory. But in terms of the young talent on the roster, we think back to that 2017 team and think, okay, it was all the veterans.

I don't think that's really necessarily how we thought about it then. And you've done a good job laying this out. So let's take a look at this graphic, Julia, that's accent along. And this is the players on a roster from, what is it, Zach, the previous three draft classes who were on the team,

and considered young starters or thought of to be potential, you know, starting caliber expectations. Take us through what you think here. Yeah, so obviously the big difference, instance, 17 and 24, is that in 17, they didn't have the quarterback signed. Carson Wentz had a contract upcoming at that point, right? So in theory, you were preparing for that financially.

But when you look at, you know, Howie Roseman and Jeffrey Lurie have both said that the Eagles have these young players who they need to be prepared to sign. And that's part of the offseason approach this year. And it's hard to go back in 2017 and remember what you thought. at the time. But I do wonder how many of these guys in 2017 we really considered to be core players or future core players for the Eagles. You have Nelson Aguilar, Jordan Hicks, obviously Carson Wenz, Isaac St. Malo, Halapulavati, Vaiti, Jalen Mills, Derek Barnett, Sidney Jones, Russell, Douglas. Of that group, only Carson Wenz, Isaac Samalu signed

long-term contract extensions with Eagles. They brought back Mills on a one-year deal. they brought back Barnett on a one-year deal. Ronald Darby, who was technically under a rookie contract so we can consider him in this group. Darby came back on a one-year deal. They exercised the Aguilor's fifth-year option, but like they really didn't give any of these guys long-term extensions. These draft classes didn't materialize in the second contract players for the Eagles. Also, there was another year or two years that played out. so we don't know what's going to happen with this

2024 group. Certainly, Jamal Carter, we know you can probably look at a comparable to Carson Wentz, will be a top of the league player at his position. Cam Juergens, we're expecting that. I would imagine any day now, any day being maybe like in the next few weeks,

but Cam Jurgens is going to get a contract extension this offseason. And then, you know, Quinion, Cooper de Jeter, are on that track. Nolan Smith is on that track. Reed Blankenship, who I put in here because even though he was undrafted, they consider him part of like those draft classes, if you will. I can see him getting a modest extension.

We'll see what happens with Nicobe Dean. But their point about the amount of young players they have coming up is valid. That said, and, you know, when Bo and I were texting off air, Bo put it well, if you think back, you might have thought then that some of those guys would be a bigger part of their core than being like Ronald Darby, for instance, or Derek Barnett. That's the one that jumped out to me. Yeah, Barnett. Yeah, I mean, Barnett, you would have thought.

was taking that Nolan Smith step. Right. You would have probably felt better about him than you'd do about Nolan Smith now because it was one year, right? And frankly, if you were doing a draft based on just how you thought about the player like right after the Super Bowl now, Carson Wentz probably gets picked before Jalen Carter. Yeah. Right? And so it is a good reminder of just as good like stuff might look great on paper of you've got all

these young players. Certainly they're going to ascend. It doesn't always work out that way. you don't need to be negative, but like, you know, Sydney Jones was drafted that year, basically to have a redshirt year and then come in and be a star corner in year two. And obviously that didn't happen. I'm curious your guys' perspective on this.

And this is within the conversation of the post-Supert Bowl lessons. And it's hard to divorce yourself from understanding what happened in those years after. But if you look at the 2018 off-season, do you think Howie would give, Nigel Bradham the contract extension if the Eagles had just wanted if if so if you take the 2017 circumstance if you reverse the two years and you kind of have the lessons from that do you think Nigel Bradham is a profile player the Eagles would have given a contract extension to this offseason this off season yeah because they'd have to think yes right and that's a weird framing that I gave but in 2018 like that was one of their moves is they re-signed Nigel Bradham and I was wondering

is that comparable to them resigning Zach Bond. But to the point that Bowen and I have had during the past few days and weeks, the Eagles had a lot of those middle, like they had a lot of B players. And Nigel Braden was not an A player. I don't think they even viewed Nigel Bratham as an A player.

I'm not sure they would have given Nigel Bradham that contract with kind of the approach they're taking now, frankly speaking, if we even extend this, I'm not sure they would have given Tim Juringen the in-season contract extension because I think they're much more focused now on like,

all right, is this guy a true difference maker? And if he's not a true difference maker, is he replicable to a certain percentage of what, you know, of a guy you can get on a rookie contract? Because frankly, I think that's how they looked at Milton Williams this offseason. They like Milton Williams. He's a guy they really like. But I don't think they viewed Milton Williams as like a true difference-making player.

It's my first thought goes to like the safety net of draft. well because you know sure you still do have a Nacobi dean and other guys to kind of offset you have these guys that you believe in for the future whereas you didn't really have that back then so like maybe i mean Zach Zach Bonn clearly was the priority of the offseason from the jump uh but for a lot of the other positions you feel like you have replacement players already in here i just think it's a wild difference the three previous drafts compared to the you know 2014 through 2017 draft and how much better their process has gotten and how much more talent they're bringing in. I think it, I almost say basically what I'm saying is I don't even know

if you can compare the two. But I think to, to see it laid out there and to think back to the and you might, you might, you would have thought that they were had, they were doing a very good job with the draft, at least, you know, in the one year or the two years since Howie Roseman got back. I thought Sidney Jones was a great thing. You traded up and you got Carson Wentz. you got yourself a franchise quarterback that you nailed that and you got you know holapul of ati vatay in the fifth round that's an overperformance and you know that was not a good year for Isaac Sayamala but you still had hope for him and then the next year you felt like given Derek Barnett's rookie season that you had added a you know starting caliber edge rusher

and a potential star corner in sydney jones like you you probably felt very good about those guys then but i think like resigning jernigan in season like you might not have felt good about the depth behind them like oh i have to get him to to keep them. Yeah, now you have like an Odomo. I think that's true. I just think there's,

it's the trickle down of having good drafts. I think you have replacement level players. I think the questions. So I guess that's more. In your framing of it is, have they changed philosophically

in not wanting to pay that middle class of player? Or is it specific to knowing that they're going to have several very high market extensions coming down the line? It's a great framing and I think it's a combination of both, but I do think their approach has changed. If you look at that at that 2017 team and look, it's a historical team in Philly.

It's as Jeffrey Lurie said yesterday, it's incomparable. But it was a team filled, frankly, with a lot of middle, like a middle of the league. contract players, not top of their position contract players. Going, you know, you go down like Malcolm Jenkins was a player who at the time was not one of the highest pay players

at his position. Brandon Brooks, Rodney McLeod. Like these were players who when the Eagles took a deliberate approach in free agency not to pay top of the market. And that's not what the Eagles are doing here. AJ Brown, Devante Smith, I mean, Lane Johnson, Jordan Milit,

at Landon Dickerson. These guys are like top five paid players at their position. Back then Fletcher Cox really was like the outlier there in terms of guys and Jason Peters too. Fletcher Cox and Jason Peters were guys who were paid top of the league at their position. Otherwise, it was a lot, it was a different roster building approach. The other interesting thing too, and this goes to what Jamie was saying about the benefit of

of drafting well. If you guys had the guess off the top of your head, I'm sorry to put you on the spot. Oh, I love this. How many homegrown players the Eagles had in their starting lineup? And we'll include Vitae, right?

Including Vaitai. Oh. In their starting lineup, not for the Super Bowl, but as like, if you wrote down there, 22 starters from that team, including Vitae over Jason Peters,

how many would you guess they had? Seven. I rounded up one for my rough, quick rack of the brain. eight yeah so uh actually you guys um i thought i thought you were going to go higher they had 10 nine if you if you don't include vitai so nine if you include peters um and that's that's interesting kent kelsey lane agelore wents ertz is who i forgot in my head uh and then cox Kelsey.

I said Kelsey. Yeah. Cox Graham. I mean, Vinnie. Hicks, if you count him, Jalen Mills. Yeah.

Vinnie Curry. Yeah. Yeah. So not that many. And if you look at the team now, they've obviously brought in Sequin.

They brought in A.J. Brown. They brought him McKay Beckton. But four of their five starting offensive linemen, homegrown players. Dallas Goddard, homegrown player.

Jalen Hurts, homegrown player. right on the defensive side Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith you know Jordan Davis Kobe Dean Clinton on Mitchell Cooper to Jean

Yeah it's they that's the benefit of the drafting that they've had during these past few years Yeah there are different You're right there two different roster building philosophies and there are two different cycles Like if you think about you know

if you're doing a a Madden franchise, right? When Reed's doing his Madden franchise, right? If you're starting from the beginning, you can do the collection of, you know, middle tier players and build a roster that is deep and good everywhere and maybe only great in one or two places.

But if you are nailing the draft consistently, and if you are bringing in... Life is so much easier. Eventually, you know, eventually bringing in star caliber players, you can't do both. You can't pay all the good guys and retain the great guys. You do have to borrow them from someone. They're at the pivot point of having to pay for their drafting well.

Right, right. And I think they are getting ahead of it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But only by a year. Right. Basically, it's Jalen Carter. Yeah, one of my laments, frankly, is that, like, I love being part of the Philly media, right? But there's nowhere else I would rather cover sports.

but um it's a big butt because there's yeah yeah well there there's a huge butt here right um but but um but samuel touch push because there's because there are so many of us anytime we talk to howie roseman there's never like that the actual like conversation about roster building philosophy it's it's it's much more like bounces from this you know bounces from this to this to this. I would love if we could sit down for Howie with with Howie for an hour on our show and have these conversations. Like how did this evolve?

Because I do think there was an evolution. I do think if I had to speculate how he studies other sports and he sees the way that is. And I think that there is this, like the term irreplaceable players is something that I think really factors into this, is that they want to. get as many guys who are unique, who are, who are impossible to replace. And though they think they can get by with those B or C players. The chat is already very interested.

They want an entire offseason show on ZB's laments. We can make this a whole Vod, Zach. Yeah, Zeeb's laments are too. Physical mail. I like, I would never want to speak about that already, Zach. My laments about the physical mail. Yeah, they said Zach might be the only person under the age of 80 that likes physical mail. Yeah, no, I don't like physical mail.

I like opening, like when you're gone for a whole. I don't like when, but if you're gone for a while, I mean, it's a nice, pleasant surprise when you get an actual piece of mail. Yes, that's true. But yes, we're talking like 5% once a month. I got my grandmother sent me this nice card here. Does she still do cash? Does she slip a five scan there?

there? No, no, no, it doesn't do cash. Straight Zell and Cash app from Grandma. I got it. And then, yeah, so you get some stuff here that you like going through. Nice thank you note here. So in any event, as the laments would typically be things that I did poorly on the show or writing wise or reporting wise or social interactions that I would. were like a do-over on. Bill walking in with a fresh cut.

Oh, wow. No long air. Yeah. Whoa. How about that? Check out the Flyer show today. Got to see this new cut for Bill. All right, Zach, you're going to stick with us, right? I would love to. All right. Let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. We'll be back with more.

We're going to address a good super check question, Zach. Do you think that you guys are going to pick up Jordan Davis's 50-year option? But we start with a wonderful company based right near where Sean Grieve went to high school. Of course, talking about True Mark Financial. Guess what April is, Zach? It's draft month, but it is also Financial Literacy Month.

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from Conan who says, do you guys think the Eagles will exercise the 50 option on Jordan Davis? I'm leaning yes, he says. It's a good question. I am leaning toward them keeping him. This might be me kind of pandering to my own column, but I still think there's a chance that they try to give the contract extension

as opposed to the 50-year option. Right? They can't do the 50-year option, right? They can't spend this whole time talking about we're not paying B players A money and then give Jordan Davis $14 million when he plays 30% of the snaps. Yeah, so that's why I kind of think a better, strategy would be like the two, like the two year contract extension or three year contract

extension where you're not paying what the fifth year option value is, but you give him. What does he get on the open market this off season? Well, that's because it's hard to separate the upside from the player. Like Javon Kinlaw, who had, he got $40 million. It was not even good last year. Yeah, yeah. And he's still getting paid based on the promise he showed as a draft. even though this is his third team since then.

Like now I understand the person who drafted him gave him that contract, so that factors into it. But Jordan Davis is, what, 25 years old, 26 years old. He's, there's times if you just isolate the film, you can sell yourself to wow this guy's a trip maker. Just turn 25. Easy. He's like, and off the, exactly.

So I think, I think he would really get paid. But Boe's point is, is. accurate that, you know, $14 million for the role he plays is allowed. I think that he's going to play a bigger role next season. I think the compromise would be to give the contract extension that lowers the fifth year option number but keeps him as a part of the team. Do you think there's uncertainty within about his, or is he a fully baked pie? Do you think there's people in that building that still think he can get better and play 45, 50%,

or do they believe this is what he is at this point? No, I think they think there's, I think they think there's still another gear for him to get to do. Then the extensions would make sense, right? If that's the belief inside. Yes, yes. Because Bo, I think it's a lot of money to pay someone based on the role he has now. And a fifth year option puts you in a weird spot there. I think a contract extension is a better play.

Can you explain the mechanics of the option and how if you decline it, like what that then means? Yeah. So if you decline the fifth year option, that he's on the books next year, then he's a free agent next off season. If you accept the fifth year option, which is, you know, what, 12 to 14 million, it would be, so he's guaranteed that money if he gets injured this year, right? So you extend, so you exercise the option. That's a, that's a guarantee.

So if he were to get hurt this year, he's on the books for that number. So that's why teams are kind of weary about doing it if they don't think that, you know, if they're not sold on it. And the other thing, too, is those fifth-year options are pretty expensive. Like the Eagles got ahead of Devante Smith in that they gave him a contract extension baking in the fifth-year option, too, right? And it kind of brought down what that number is because we've talked up in the show a lot about void years and how the Eagles bring down the cap. number of a player with void years. You can't do that on a fifth year option. Jordan Davis would be on his cap hit if they exercised a fifth year option will be the entire fifth year option, which is very unlike the Eagles to have that type of number. So that's why I think a contract extension

makes me if you're determined to keep a franchise tag. Exactly. Exactly. It would just eat up too much their cap space. All right. Good job explaining that. That was helpful. Okay. Any other any other leftover thoughts from the week in Palm Beach. I had some leftover thoughts from the week, but I did have one

question for you that this is topical. Relatively personal, but it's not something you haven't shared on the show, but it's topical the Eagles fans. And I want to get this in

because I might forget it if I started talking about the owner's meetings. I saw congratulations to Jason and Kylie, Kelsey and family. Four girls. That's wild.

Yeah. But as I as I saw it, it came to mind, and I could have my math wrong here. But are you and Jason, like, pretty consistent in terms of, like, when you guys, like, have you some fathers around the same time? It's not quite. It is that, because I had, we had our first before they had their oldest. Okay.

And then they squeezed in four in the span that we're squeezing in two. But didn't you have, but yes, didn't you have Jane around the time, I believe, of their second. Okay. Okay. Right, so that's what I, because I do remember you doing a piece where you guys were commiserating about going through a similar experience at the same time, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. So that's why I was.

I mean, you know, they're juggling four under six maybe, I think that might be what it is. Yeah, they're only six, five, under seven. And there's a little bit more of a space out. What, what, you know, you could, you could go, I don't know which is better because you could say like if you, if you're squeezing them all in in a short of period of time, that period of time is much more different. because you've got more that you're just trying to keep alive. But now you're resetting. But now he's in it. On the other side, yeah.

Yeah, then once you get out of that, then you're in good shape. Now for us, we're in good shape. Yeah, yeah. Once more, I think the Kelsey method is, I don't want to say the better or smarter method, but like if you don't leave the chaos, then you don't forget what it's like. You have to retrain yourselves. The two, you are back in it. Yeah.

Yeah. One thing that I'm feeling very, very much is like just, just, and this is me, which is half a turkey compared to the 99 and a half for Rachel is just my physically my body. Like, you know, getting just a. Oh, dude, my shoulder up and down the stairs or whatever it is or like just my knees. Like, you know, I like to do a lot of parenting just lying on the ground sometimes. I don't know if that's going to be quite as helpful. One of my favorite games these days is Fort where I just lay down in between our couch and the Ottoman. And then they construct blankets and everything on top of me.

On top of you. And I get like a solid 25 minutes on the ground. And then they jump on me. But like it's like a solid. So you know, you're going to be a lot of two on one one where she'll be one on one for a while. So you have a little bit of a well, one on two. Yes, one on two. Yeah.

But that's true. So take fort. Steal that one. It's a good 20 minutes on. Well, yeah. I was just thinking about the congruency between you and Kelsey's timelines because it's... You think there's something in the universe there? No, no, no.

I... No, it was a cool coincidence, like, because I do remember Kelsey and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so thoughts from the week here. as I was listening through to Jeffrey, I thought Jeffrey really crystallized things well as far as like the strategy. I thought he gave, I'm kind of gassing him up here, but I think it's appropriate.

I thought he gave the best explanation for the tush push of anyone that spoke this week. Eagles include, you know, whether it's Eagles people, whether it's, you know, people from outside the league. I got to, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, like I thought it was very like reasoned explanation about why like why they run it, how they view the, the data. I liked his line that you can't put in a rule for like could bes or should bes, right? Like that's that's precisely why you have data. He had anecdotal evidence from the, from what quarterbacks prefer. Now obviously he's not an objective source here. But I thought he stated the case well. I thought his explanation for like if you have a good team, okay, you're going to lose free agents because, and Boe mentioned this on the show yesterday, like the market value.

If you pay every player market value, you're just not going to have cap space left. If you draft, like they couldn't pay Milton Williams, Milton Williams, his market value, which is $26 million, right? Like, that's what the market paid him. They couldn't pay the guys that they lost, they couldn't pay all of them and then have money to pay their guys next time. Now, I think the caveat here is that they have to come through with this cash spending. If this is their approach, right, then they have to come through in a year and in two years and pay these guys because that's kind of, that's what not pay all of them. You can't pay all of them. But if they're saying, no, there's no issue with cash right now.

Like this is just, this is part of a bigger strategy than the determination will come when they do pay John Carter and they do pay Nolan Smith and they do pay Cam Juergens, right? So we'll see you there. I thought it was into, he slipped in yesterday that Howie Roseman is locked up here for a long time. There hasn't been like a formally announced Howie Roseman contract extension. I know the Eagles have been especially cryptic in the past. with Howie Roseman contract extensions. And this is something that, you know, when it came out a few years ago, like, I don't think that's something that they really wanted out there sometimes.

It's so silly. It's so unfair. Yeah. So it is because player stuff is very much out there. And I think, it's good to be private. So I think if I had to speculate here, And I could be wrong.

Does he negotiate his own deal? I might get a, no, I think he has an agent for that. But I might get, you know, an angry text later for saying this. They're watching 54 minutes into the show. It's good of retention, right. We, yeah, seriously. We choose up those analytics. We talk sometimes, like, take the 2022 season about if you paid your, I'm sorry,

if you pay Kaiser White, what does that say to T.J. Edwards. You pay T.J. Evers was like I say to Kaiser or White. There's often this idea that like the coach and the quarterback are, I'm sorry, the coach and the GM are congruent in terms of timelines. A matter of fact, the last time the Eagles publicly announced a coach contract extension and a GM contract extension, then it was after the last Super Bowl, 2018 offseason, because I was actually looking at that offseason today, prepping for the show. They announced Doug Peterson and Howie Roseman contract extensions on the same day. And a big thing in that press release that day, and Jeffrey Lurie even spoke that night, is that the coach and the GM are tied for the same period of time, right?

And that's one thing that you hear. If this is the case that Hallie Roseman has signed a contract extension already, and Jeffrey Lurie said yesterday, he's locked up for a long time, then that means there's been a period of time, however long that is, when Hallie Roseman has been locked up, and the head coach has not been. So I think that's probably why they're especially cryptic on this. It's a very good point.

And you would also add to that, you know, if this was like players and you knew all the contract details, you know, guess what? In Philadelphia, the GM's making more money than the head coach. And there will be other play. And it would be reflective of how the power dynamics work in most organizations because I'm sure there are a lot of places where the head coach is making more money than the general management. at you. Yeah, that's a valid point. That's a valid point. And GM contracts, like, GM contracts are not as public as head coach contracts are. And, you know, there is a podcast that Bo and I've joked about in the past about Thomas, you know, with Thomas Demetroff, great guest at the Super Bowl. Thank you Thomas for coming on from Super Sports. But in Thomas Demetra's podcast, he would ask all these GMs, like, why don't you think GMs get paid more when they have such an important job? And, and, And you know what the honest answer to Thomas Demetrov, the one that he's been searching for all these years, is because it's not public. That's a good point. That's a good point.

If they wanted to get paid more money, they should make it public. And then you can say, why am I not getting paid one-tenth of Christian Kirk? Yeah. Chris Ballard's the most overhyped GM in the world, and he's getting $5 million. But I've said this for a long time, and I stand by this. The Eagles organization is more closely resembled. a baseball club than the other 31 football teams. And what I mean by that is in baseball,

the GM or the president of baseball operations, he's king, right? He's, I shouldn't say he's kid. He's the big deal in the organization. And the manager tends to be viewed as fungible to a certain extent. Absolutely. Dumbrowski is king of Philly's land. Rob Thompson is simply a passenger. Yeah.

Brian Cashman, with the, Brian Cashman with the Yankees. You go on down the list. The baseball GMs, everyone knows the baseball GM. Or if you're a baseball fan, you know the baseball GMs. You might not know the baseball managers, right? And it's kind of been, even though the baseball manager talks twice a day and is like the public face there, the GM is in charge. And we've said it that most NFL franchises are coach-centric organizations.

the Eagles are very much a GM-centric organization. And it's a model that they've used now going back to 2016. And at one point, it was when there was more skepticism about Howie, it was kind of viewed as like Howley put it this way to protect himself. But I think now they, if you gave Jeffrey Lord Truth serum, I think he would say Hallie Roseman will be harder to replace than Nick Siriani. Absolutely. I say that because they've won a Super Bowl with two different head coaches.

They've, you know, Jeffrey Lurie, every coach he's hired has made the playoffs within this first two years. He's had double the wins within the first two years. And I think that he views Howie's talent as harder to replace than Nick's talent. And you're often, you know, in every line of work, every line of work, you're paid based on how replaceable you are. Like the reason why Christian Kirk gets paid more than GMs is because it's harder to find someone who runs fast and catches the ball that well than it is to find a GM. So if, sorry, he's going to be the highest paid GM in the league if he isn't already. Do we have, I would be blown away if that was not the game. What do we, do we have a ballpark speculation number here?

Are we talking between five and seven a year? What are we guessing? I think this we're probably getting irresponsible here. Well, that's why I'm here. You guys are the journalist. I'm the idiot. Yeah, I don't want to put a number out without knowing. All I will say is I would go up from that.

All right. Maybe. It's a good gig. Maybe. Good gig. I mean, he's won two Super Bowls. Yeah, he deserves every penny. Give him all the money.

If you are the best in the world at running, the most popular sport in the country. Yeah, like that, frankly, probably feels like an underpay. Give them 2% of the franchise for all I care. I don't give it. I don't think that's... Yeah. Yeah, I think I mean, I can tell you 2%.

I can tell you what 2% of the franchises were because we know the franchise is valued at 8.25 billion, right? And we know they sold 8% of that 8.2... Oh, where are we? We're in overtime. So, yeah, any type of equity play would be a good way to go. Now, Zach, what do you make of as one of six children? The revelation in the chat that we have, I believe, Joe says his grandmother had 21 kids.

She started at 15 in Italy, he said. Yeah, that'd be a crowded dinner table. I've said, I mean, I admire Joe's grandma, that's amazing. I'm trying to do the math for when you start that. So it's one more than 20. No, for what age the grandmother might have started? 15, he said. Oh, 15.

Okay, I can't see the chat when I'm on Zoom. 15. Those are big pasta dinners. Yeah. Yeah. I said, I love the way I grew up. with six kids. It was one of six kids, not with six kids.

As one of six kids, it was a prominent part of my life. I can't imagine 21 kids, right? So that's, but that's awesome. I mean, I guess it's never 21 at one period, right? Like they get phased out.

Like once one hits 18, like you're not cranking in 21 in 18 years. So eventually, like, I mean, I would think, yeah, but you know what?

On Joe, I mean, I would imagine all 21 weren't in the house all simultaneously is my point. I would imagine they varied between 13 and like 17 which is still crazy but you're you're probably looking at like a 45 50 year period of active parenting like you have a kid in your house or you're responsible for so absolutely yeah if you get that handshake at 18 like all right now you're responsible for yourself right um if if uh i mean presumably it wasn't like one every year for 21 years i imagine especially

toward the end, there was probably some time in between. So you're probably looking at at 40 to 50 years of active parenting, which is staggering. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if we don't know if there were multiples in there at any point. There's probably, there's got to be some twins in there. I would imagine so. I mean, just based on the odds, 21 times. That's true.

21 times. That's true. People used to say. My old man came home from the war with four more in his house. Oh. Oh. Well, now we're all confused. so not all the same

not all the same mother is that I'm not sure I don't know what's going on there I'm trying to be careful I'm trying to be careful time I mean yeah unless unless she was impregnated with quadruples and then he went the milk

away do they have a milkman in Italy I imagine they have a milk person in it in Italy yeah so cheese guy fresh parada guy coming to the door every day I mean, I guess it makes sense.

How dare you be smarts the Rockhead? What's his name? Joe Rockhead? Joe's great. Joe's wonderful. Oh, that's funny. How dare you? All right, Zach. Anything else you want to get off your chest before we reconvene for tomorrow show? I'm so excited for what's ahead here. As I said in an ad read yesterday, April,

we kind of pivot to draft mode. there aren't that many shows remaining until the draft, right? So think about it. The draft is three weeks from tomorrow. Yeah. Three weeks from tomorrow. Think about that. So the countdown begins.

This is a fun time. And I was speaking in the, as we were waiting for the Jeffrey Lurie Press conference yesterday with the other reporters, I'm always a little melancholy at the end of the owner's meetings because it's like I look forward to the owners meetings. I have a lot of it want to accomplish at the owners meetings. And now it's over and it shifts into a different gear. And the draft is especially the case. And even we're going, I'm going in the year to, or this is year two here at PHLY. The tenor of the shows are a lot different post draft.

So eager for these next three weeks. And it could be a huge draft weekend for the Eagles. Well, Zach, you say three weeks till the draft. and it's a great time to hop in for the Eagles 100. Let me tout all the work, Fran Duffy, Bo Wolf, and Zach Berman have done on this. It's an absolutely incredible draft resource for everybody to have out there. If you're a diehard, you've already dove into it, dissected it. It's awesome.

If you're not a diehard, $39.99 sale going on right now. You get full access to the living document that everybody has put so much work into. as an employee here, I'm so proud of it. It's like a little online baby I have where I want to show the world. So if you're not already a diehard, you should become one. It's a great time to get in

because the Eagles 100 is awesome. Who's the one player you would want at 32? Emmanuel Worry. Okay. I'm just blown away by the athleticism. Starks would be pretty cool too. But if Goddard's gone, I mean, if Loveland was somehow there,

I'd be in. Those are kind of like my three guys right now, Walter Nolan's. Walter Nolan's in my big board. Those are the kind of guys I'm focused on right now. I have one that as I've been doing my draft work, there's this thought that's been going through my head. It's kind of a half-baked thought. I'm curious, Franz's perspective.

I'm curious all your perspectives. We don't have to talk about it today. But do you still hear me? Yeah, we got you. Oh, okay, okay, sorry. that with the way, with NIA on the transfer portal, okay, there once was a time, I sound like an old man, not that long ago, like five six, six, eight years ago, when if a player was at multiple schools, I don't want to say it was

a red flag, but it was something that they had to investigate. And now there's two parts of this. Number one, it's kind of the norm. There's a lot of guys who like just go to a school for a year. But also, I'm curious if the Scouts have a harder time gaining intel on the players because the coaches at these schools don't know these guys as well. So like take someone like Walter Nolan or take something like Nick Scorton. These guys have been on campus for five months, right? So if you're an area at Scowl, these coaches don't have like a lot of good intel on how this guy's wired because the guy's essentially, the higher gun is essentially

like signing a one-year free agent. It's like talking, you know, so you're, you know, it's, so I'm curious how that plays itself out because, you know, I was reading a scouting report recently. I'll give a shout out, Tyler Dunn. And Bob McGinn, Bob McGinn does these drafts things for Tyler Dunn's website. And it was on Walter Nolan's profile. And it's like he's been at like five schools in six years or something like that.

if you go back to high school. And I'm curious how that factors into some of the evaluations. I guess this is why Big Dom gets paid the big bucks, right? Yeah, I mean, I think, I can't remember if we talked about this on our show or the draft show, but I think there is, you know, it cuts both ways. And like anything else, it comes down to how good are your sources. But the one thing that occurs to me is I think it's a good thing because you're sort of test casing how these guys handle changing schemes.

and changing situations, which is exactly what you're trying to project when they come into the NFL. That's an awesome point. You're absolutely right about that. And I do recall that on the draft show. All right. Good stuff. Look forward to getting more to that tomorrow on the PHLY Eagle Show with 2 o'clock. We're going to talk tight ends. I have some exciting news for you. I have a piece of physical mail here in the office for you. I can't wait to open it. Wow. It's waiting for you tomorrow. I'll hand it to you. I actually think I I've had a person

DM me on Instagram a few times saying did you get this mail to get this mail so I'm eager to respond to him to say that I did so hopefully I have that mail I hope you unbox it on the show ooh

it'd be good publicity for the person I think it's a book that he wrote it feels like a book oh yeah very exciting okay well we look forward to that and then of course I've got the PHLY draft show tomorrow live at noon with Rand Duffy

join us for that as well. Zach Berman, thank you so much. Devon Givittons, thank you so much. Jamie Lynch, thank you so much. Julia, thank you so much. We will be back tomorrow. For all of us here, P.H.O.Y, we thank you for watching and listening. And as always, we love you.