PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Around The League: What NFL Trends Are KING To Eagles Season | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: July 24, 2026

Fran Duffy is joined by Greg Cosell from NFL Films to look at some of the hottest topics surrounding NFL discourse this summer and how much they actually apply to the Eagles as they prepare to kick off the 2026 season. Insight on what he saw at Lane Johnson’s OL Masterminds event, how change in tight end sets affects offenses around the league, and what defenses are doing with ‘big nickel’ defensive backs.    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Xfinity Mobile studio. Welcome to the P. H.L.Y. Eagle Show presented by our good friends at Ashley. I am your host today, Fran Duffy. Bow's out. E.J's out. So we brought in the living legend himself. My good friend, LeBron James is here. Everybody, welcome.

I know. Well, you know, I'm not quite as big as LeBron, but I guess we'll suffer through that. I mean, you're close, right? You're close. No, I thought, you know what, when I knew that it was going to be me hosting today, and I was like, oh, who could I bring in? I thought, you know what? Greg and I have not talked for an hour with Mike's rolling about the Eagles since what.

I guess it would have been the fall of 2023, maybe the spring of 2024. So I thought it's nostalgia here for something you and I did for, you know, a decade plus on a weekly basis. No, yeah, and we did it every week. I know, we did it every week. It was great. it's obviously look it's been it's been a crazy news day here in philadelphia there's a lot to cover from the philly sports angle of it but uh i've got a lot of things i want to pick your brain about and the way that i kind of thought about this was you know there's obviously there's a lot going on around the NFL

big topics as the season's about to get underway a lot of teams already in training camps so i thought all right kind of the topics d'jeure around the league how could they apply to the eagles and who better to pick their brain than you know so i thought uh we'll got to go topic by topic here. And the area that I wanted to start with is the offensive line because you just got back from an event that you've been to a couple times. I've been to a couple times. We've never been there at the same time, I don't think. I don't think you were there. Yeah, you were there, I think the year before I started going. Right. Yeah. It's rough because they always, so we're talking about offensive O-line masterminds, which is an event put on by Duke Vanityweather. Lane Johnson.

It was one of the originators of it. He actually kind of like, you know, sent like a, like a of lightning into Duke's head to kind of start this event a long time ago, several years now that they've been putting this event on. So this was year nine, I think, of the event. And also Brandon Thorne should be mentioned. He's a major part of it. And he's phenomenal. Of course.

Yeah, it's an outstanding event. I went to two of the first couple and just to see where it was in the beginning to what it's become now, where, you know, hundreds of people that are down there every single year from all walks of the league and in college football as well, obviously. So it's a great event. And I thought, you know what, let's, I want to get some of your takeaways because you and I haven't talked about it since you guys, since you've been back. So what were some of your big takeaways from going down to Masterminds and seeing, you know,

Lane Johnson? I don't know if there were any other Eagles there. What were your big takeaways from the event? Actually, Markell Bell was there as well. And he's a very tall young man. Yeah. But I did say hello to him. You know, I think my biggest takeaways and each year, I'm, I don't want to say I'm blown away by it,

But each year, it just fascinates me by just how nuanced and detailed and subtle the position is. You know, we think of these big guys and they've got to block guys who are more often than not better athletes than they are. We think about the trenches as it's just, you know, this physical battle of big on big. And I tell you, when you sit and you listen and not only to the presentations made not only by Duke, but offensive linemen who are there, including Lane Jones. Johnson and others. You know, this year, by the way, Zach Martin was there this year. I got a chance to talk to him for a half hour, and it was phenomenal.

And I'll tell a great story about that, you know, really in a moment. But I think what really stands out to me is just, you know, the subtleties of the position and all the nuances as opposed to, oh, just big guys. And, you know, Duke did a whole presentation on run blocking, and I took a lot of notes on it. And it's just, I mean, everything is so detailed. I mean, and, you know, you know this. Obviously, you worked for the Eagles for years and years, and you've had these conversations.

And I know this to a large extent as well. But, you know, we're not offensive linemen. So when you hear an offensive lineman talk about it, it's really fascinating, you know, just the detail, the hand placement, the foot placement, and how it's really much, much more of a mental game in the minds of, oh, alignment than it is a physical game, which might sound very strange to fans because of the size of the

guys. But that's the way they see the game much more so than just going out and, you know, knocking you know what in the dirt. They don't see it that way. You know, it's what I know that Duke and Lane, you know, the guys that put the event together. You know, they've kind of, they've tried to change the format and evolve over the course of time, right? So it's not the same thing every year and, you know, that way you get, you get people coming back. And one of the things that I loved from one of my first trips there. And I know they did a little bit of that this year, from what I understand as well, is that,

hey, you know what, we're going to watch Micah Parsons today. We're going to watch Danelle Hunter. We're going to watch I remember when they did like Chandler Jones is, you know, the, you find like these unique skill sets. And maybe it's guys that are really good at this move. I remember them talking through

like Jonathan Allen and some of the rushes that he would do. It's like, hey, when you face this rush, your game, well, let's watch through them. What are some of the things that we see? What are some of the things that we need to prepare for? If I'm a light-footed pass protector that has a questionable anchor, how am I going to attack this guy versus if I'm 350 pounds and I'm going up against this guy? Because that's going to differ what your plan's going to be and what your approach will be going into that week.

And so just hearing guys kind of go through that whole process was another peak inside, like what goes into the weekly prep. Well, it's funny because he wasn't there this year, but last year Joe Thomas was there. And obviously one of the questions that someone asked him, because for years and years and years, who did Joe Thomas have to block in practice? Miles Garrett. So he went through, you know, the whole process. I'm trying to find my notes on that because obviously, you know, I took it. Oh, yeah, I have them in front of me now. He went through the whole process of how you have to block, you know, a Miles Garrett.

Now, there's only one Miles Garrett. But, and Joe Thomas was obviously as good as there was. I mean, you know, if you reduce past setting to its simplest terms, there'd be three kinds of past sets. There'd be short sets, quick sets. There'd be what they call 45 degree angle sets, and there'd be what they call vertical sets. And obviously, there's variations on those themes, but those would be the sort of foundations of past setting. And Joe Thomas is viewed by pretty much everybody as maybe the best pure vertical setter that's ever done it, because he was so long. and I'm sure you remember watching tape of Joe Thomas.

He looked like he was just out there having a good time. It looked so easy. He never looked like he was exerting himself to pass protect. But it's all based on the technique of how you do these specific things. I mean, they had arguably the two best right guards in the league at the O-Line masterminds this year and Trey Smith and Quinn Miners. And they're totally different kinds of players. So they have to go about doing this.

their job differently. Like I met Trace Smith a couple of years ago and we talked and he remembered me. So I talked to him this year and he, he was only there the first day because he had to leave. But man, I said to him, God, you look like, you know, I said, how much do you weigh? He said, 315. I said, man, you look like you weigh 250. I mean, he just looks so streamlined and he's 6-6-315. You know, it just blew me away. Whereas Quinn Miners is built totally differently and therefore that demands that he play the position differently. And the best part for the players that are there, because what they do is they get a lot of college O lines there.

They probably had eight or nine college O lines there. I know Wisconsin was there, NC State was there. I'm sure I'm missing some teams. You know, I can't remember every team that was there. But they go to these breakout sessions where, you know, these young college kids ask a ton of questions. And I'm sure for these young men, it's the best part of it. Because then, you know, they get really specific study of how you deal with

specific situations, but it's such a detailed position. It is not just, you know, physical. I mean, obviously, look, I don't want to compare it to boxing, but obviously in boxing, you don't just go out there and swing wildly and hope you hit the guy in the jaw. There's a science to it. You know, that's what a line play is. Well, look, I want to bring all these things that we're talking about. I want to bring it back to the Eagles a little bit. And obviously, one of the big discussion points for this team is we get ready for training camp in less than a week is the state of the offensive line and I want to structure this conversation under the, under the construct of the big takeaway

presented by our friends at Xfinity because, again, training camp five days away. You got Lane Johnson, who didn't finish the season last year due to injury. Cam Juergens was extremely banged up, had procedure done this off season. Landon Dickerson, obviously, extremely banged up. Jordan Milata got banged up. New offensive line coach, you know, from Jeff Stoutland to Chris Cooper. What are your thoughts on this offensive? offensive line as we get this close to the season.

Well, I think the whole coaching approach with this particular offense, because I think you have to bring, you know, Sean Manion and the new offense into the conversation is that it's going to be a totally different offensive approach, which requires, you know, different techniques for your O line. My guess is the O line will really like this style of offense because of the emphasis on play action, the emphasis on under center play action, the fact that the, you know, the outside zone run. game becomes more of a factor in just the foundation of an offense. And as you well know, when you do that, what happens very often when there's play action is the D-line's initial reaction is horizontal as opposed to vertical. And that gives the O line that extra second. I mean, it's a game of milliseconds, really, at all positions. And it gives the O line that, you know, a couple of extra milliseconds to really, you know, be in position to pass protect. There's not as much because of that element of the offense. there won't be as much pure one-on-one pass protection.

In fact, Lane Johnson even said that because I got a chance to talk to Elaine, and he was saying, you know, hey, I won't be past protecting 101 as much this year, and I love that. He and Jordan Milata, and this is for years, those guys got so little help, you know, I know. It's one-on-one protection, and that's a testament to their ability, obviously, but also just like within the concert with that scheme, like they,

you didn't get Brandon Brooks, you know, going to double team with Lane Johnson. You didn't get a lot of chance and things like that. It was a lot of those guys on an island one-on-one. No, and obviously, Lane Johnson is arguably as good a right tackle that's ever played the game. And he has that double under move that probably three human beings on the planet can do. You know, it's just remarkable.

But, you know, he's so excited about the fact that not everything's going to be one-on-one pass protection just because of the entire nature of the offense. So the question becomes, just to get to your point is, you know, you think of someone like Landon Dickerson, because this is an offensive. that requires a lot more movement in the run game than the previous one. You know, and the O-Lyman normally in this style of offense tend to have to be what we would consider more athletic as opposed to more maulers and powerful. And, you know, you wonder with Lane Johnson, excuse me, with Landon Dickerson,

who unfortunately has been injured so much that you just wonder, you know, if this offense really fits the way he plays left guard. And, you know, obviously he's the starting left guard as we speak today, Fran. but you don't know how everything's going to play out. But, you know, this offense definitely requires a lot more movement, lateral movement, even vertical movement by offensive linemen, than the previous, you know, under Jeff Stalyn, and the previous offense they ran.

Yeah, you know, and I think of Cam Juergens in 2024, and you were able to weaponize his athleticism. And you get him last year, I mean, we didn't see that at all. I think just because of what he was dealing with, they didn't even try and put him in those kinds of positions, you know, where he was asked to, to be that kind of. Remember when Brent Toth had to play a couple of games and how much they pulled him where they couldn't really do that with Cam Juergens because of his injuries? You know, not that he's in. Obviously, Cam Juergens is capable of doing that when he's healthy. But once they put Toth in, they actually went back and they started pulling him, which they couldn't really do with Juergens because of the injuries.

So let me ask you this as we'll get ready for our first break, but I want to ask just to kind of, you know, put the ribbon here on this offensive line discussion. buy or sell is the way I've got in the thumbnail, but it's not going to be by or sell. If I got you on, it's going to be buyer co-sell, the offensive line going into this season. Do you feel that this group will see a better play from this group? This is obviously, look, health is a big part of this, and we can't predict that. But you got a positive outlook or a not-so-positive outlook, I guess, on this unit going into the fall? I would say generally positive, because I think the other factor, too, is, you know, as much as everybody, you know, the players, you know, what we think is irrelevant, but the players love

Stalin. I think when there's a new coach and a new system, you know, I think players just mentally and you've been around players, I've been around players, you know, they'll probably have a little bit of a chip on their shoulder too because they don't want to, they don't want people to think that we're only good because Jeff Stalind was a great coach. You know, I think it's a new system. I think mentally they'll be recharged. I would say overall, and again, it'll be a work in progress. We know that. But, you know, just for the sake of this discussion, I would say it'll be more positive than negative.

All right. Well, it's, you know, I'm in the same boat. I think we mentioned, too, like, you have not only the more help for Lane Johnson and for the tackles, like from a physical standpoint, but even just like when you incorporate the play action, like not being as predictable as an offense, like, you know, getting under center and, you know, keeping defense is honest. That also, like, inherently gives those guys more help, too. So the scheme can typically take care of.

That's why when you see a lot of, you know, the Shanahan-McVeigh-style offenses, it's not heavily invested in the offensive line. It's not whereas the Eagles have invested so heavily there. Yes. It usually raises the floor. That's a good thing for a group that obviously has a lot of talent when they're all in the field.

Well, one final. Do I have time for one final point? Yeah, sure. Well, okay. The one thing that's going to be fascinating to me, and I'm not sure how it is in the McVeigh system, although now that he has Matthew Stafford. I know Matthew Stafford is given a ton of freedom at the line of scrimmage

because he's Matthew Stafford. But in the Shanahan system, the quarterback does not deal with protections. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago. And I asked E.J. Smith and Bo Wolf, I said, do we have an idea yet? Where this is going? And that was like, you know, that hasn't been talked about this spring. So I would imagine that'll be a question that gets asked of Jalen Hertz. Yeah, so I don't know.

Again, I don't have the answer to that. I don't know whether Cam Juergens is the one who's going to handle all that or whether, you know, they'll feel that Jalen as a veteran, you know, will be the one to handle that, you know. I mean, Jalen Hertz is a veteran quarterback in the league, you know. So, but in the Shannahan system, the quarterback does not deal with protection. The center does. Well, look, we're going to keep it here on the offensive side of the football.

After this break, we're going to be talking about the impact of the tight end revolution, the renaissance of the tight end position in multi-tight end sets and everything that is now in vogue here in the NFL right after this quick break. and a word from our friends. LeBron James is here in Philadelphia. Everyone's excited. Everyone's going to be bringing in a lot of our PHLY content, Sixers, Eagles, Flyers, Phillies, everything we've got, because every morning. Well, if you want the best content, we want to help you get the best content. And so help us help you.

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real brothers, real deals, and a whole lot of hunk and good service, Route 73 South in Marlton. Back here on the P.H.O.Y. Eagle Show, Fran Duffy, Greg, Greg, let's talk through the tight end position because it's been the, I would say, I don't know, like a top three topic in the NFL since I would say the middle of last season is, you know, Sean McVeigh and all the 13 personnel after he had some injuries in wide receiver and they had all the success and they kept it going. And then you see, you see. obviously the numbers all across the league have spiked. We don't need to get into the specifics because I think everyone kind of knows that this was a big topic through the fall. Continued into the offseason. You saw some free agent contracts handed out at the position that were maybe a little bit bigger than people imagined for some of those guys. And then you get into the draft and it was tight end after tight end after tight end after tight end, especially day two of the draft. Now, it's obviously a really strong class.

And I think that informed some of those decisions by general managers. But there's no question that people are investing more in this. position right now. So what are the pros? What are teams getting out of playing with heavier sets, more, you know, more tight ends on the field, 12 personnel, 13 personnel. What are some of the big booms that they are getting with that approach? Well, I think that impacts how defenses play. And obviously, you're trying to make the defense as predictable as possible. offensive coordinators always feel that they want to work against a defense where there's less variance in what a defense can do. So now if you line up with, and we're talking 13 personnel, really, one back, three tight ends and only one wide receiver, you know, and just think of the Bears.

Now, I know Cole Komet, I think it's the last year of his contract, but still they have to play this season. But they drafted Sam Roush in the third round. Third round is not a throwaway pick. So, you know, I'm sure Ben Johnson has a lot of thoughts about lining up with three tight ends. So anyway, that's just an aside, but he's obviously one of the best offensive minds in the league. So now you make the defense declare how they want to play from a personnel standpoint. And as you well know, Fran, you know, when it comes to personnel, if you're in your base defense, your pressure packages, your different fronts, your different looks are nowhere near as extensive as they are when you're in your sub-packages.

which I think then also leads to, you know, because so much of this is still all tied together, it leads to whether you're going to see a lot more big nickel, where you're playing nickel but with three safeties and two corners, which, you know, I think will permeate the league more. And we saw Seattle being the prime example, basically playing, you know, big nickel, you know, with Nick Em and Wari. You could almost make the argument that the Eagles were similar because Cooper de Jean, even though he's, quote, unquote, a corner is really kind of a safety corner,

hybrid. So you could almost make the argument that they're somewhat big nickel as well. And those two teams played a very high percentage of sub-defense, you know, nickel packages. Because the Eagles don't really play dime that Seahawks do, but the Eagles don't. But the point is, is you learn so much more about the defense. And if they stay base, then there's very little variance in what they do as far as their tactics, their schematics, their pressures, their fronts, and then as an offense, it's much more predictable, and you can attack that. You know, I don't want to say it's easy because nothing in the NFL is easy, but it's

relatively easier, you know, than if you're facing, you know, true sub-packages. So I've been like, I've been noodleing this for a while. I've been thinking about all the multiple tight endset stuff, and it's obviously, it's, it's evolved to the point. Like, it's obviously, it's a huge talking point. And I think a lot of people, when they talk about 12 personnel, especially like before this started, a lot of people think of the Patriots and Rob Gruncowski, Aaron Hernandez, and the end on the field. You had the big blocker and you had the pass catcher and you were able to use them interchangeable and you could stay in and go hurry up. And, you know, you can take advantage of matchups.

Oh, if they want to play light, we're going to run it. If they want to play big, we're going to throw it. And we're going to take advantage of these matchups in space when you have, you know, these complementary skill sets. and I don't know that that is what necessarily wins in today's NFL, like that thought process. Because I think now what teams, what defenses now, I think tend to see is like,

all right, if you've got a tight end that is, you know, your blocker and another tight end who is your pass catcher and isn't that great of a blocker? Like, you know, maybe you can kind of fit. Right.

We're going to treat that guy as a receiver and we're going to keep playing nickel. And, you know, and so you're not getting the advantage of trying to, force us and dictate to us what personnel grouping we have on the field. I think the idea now that you whether it's playing in 12 personnel or if it's what I think and that's that I think that's what the Rams got out of this is by going to 13 personnel that was like basically like an auto for the three days like all right well we we have to play base to this and then trying to take advantage of those right of that space in there and trying to take advantage of some of those

matchups. But I also think it depends on even in 12 personnel who you're quote unquote receiving tight end is. Because a team like the Bears, Loveland is a big wide receiver. You know, theoretically, and, you know, whether he's ready to play week one or not, Eli Stowers is a big wide receiver. So the difference is not just personnel, Fran. The difference is if you can line up in one by three sets, meaning as opposed to three by one, one by three, meaning the tight end is the single receiver to the short side of the field. Now that forces a defense. How are they going to play it? It gives the quarterback more information at the line of scrimmage. So that's where the 12 personnel can be a factor.

It depends who that receiving tight end is. I mean, for years and years and years, and maybe Travis Kelsey isn't quite that guy anymore at this stage of his career. But for a number of years there, the Chiefs were very big. They would lead the league in one by three sets where Kelsey was the single receiver, the boundary X, as we call it, the single receiver to the short side of the field. and, you know, Mahomes would see, okay, how are they lining up? Does a corner stay over there, which is a pretty good zone indicator?

You know, are they putting a safety on them or a linebacker on them, which could well be a man-to-man indicator? So it would give the quarterback much more research before the snap of the ball. So it's not just, like you said, it can go deeper than that as well. And obviously going with three tight end really makes that even tougher for the defense. But it all depends on who's. your tight ends are. Exactly, right. Because that's the thing is if, let's say if, you know, if you've got two versions of like Johnny Munt, you know, the Eagles, you know, second and third

that's not a problem for the defense. Not from a past game standpoint, right? We are going to be fine matching up to him with a linebacker. And it's, to me, like, it works the other way as well. If you've got guys on opposite ends of the spectrum, which I think that's where kind of Stowers falls right now is that he's essentially the big wide receiver. They are going to treat him as a tight end. They're going to, the defense, like from a personnel like matchup standpoint would be okay, saying like, okay, you want to play 12 personnel with Dallas Goddard and Eli Stowers. We're going to play nickel.

We're not playing base. And so I want it's the, I think it was a lot of. You're going to do that against the Eagles where Goddard can certainly line up as an attached tight end and block. And you've got Barclay in the backfield in the run game. So, you know, that's where I think, you know, a team like the Eagles, it becomes very, very interesting because they can run the ball. very effectively out of that because Goddard can be an attached player.

You know, he's done that his whole career. You know, I don't know if he's quite the blocker he was three or four years ago, but he certainly can still block. You know, you can line him up attached and he's fine. It's not like he can't do that at all, you know. So, you know, that's where the rub comes in, you know, certainly when you have, you know, particularly with this kind of offense with outside zone elements. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see how these guys are deployed.

When you think of the like the Shanahan McVeigh style systems, which it seems like, you know, obviously that's what Sean Mannion is installing here in Philadelphia. How important is the tight end position in the overall structure of that scheme? I think it's really important. Keep in mind, Sean Mannion's a young coach. So he's going to work based on what he's been around. You know, he's not a guy who's a 30-year coach who's been around 10 different systems. You know, he's been with Matla Flora. You know, we know Matt LaFourour, Matt LaFourr, started his NFL coaching career with the Houston Texans under Gary Kubiak.

And Gary Kubiak is sort of a precursor to all this stuff. Then Matt LaFleur was with Kyle Shanahan in Washington. Then he was with Kyle in Atlanta, the year that the Falcons, you know, lost that Super Bowl when they were up 283. But that year, that was one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL. As, you know, people may have forgotten about that because now it seems like it was so long ago. I believe that was the 2016 season. serves me correctly. You know, that that was one of the best offenses in NFL history.

They average like eight yards per play, some ridiculous number that year. And then obviously he's been the head coach of the Packers since I think 2019, maybe. But the point is, is that's Sean Mannion's background is kind of a Shanahan McVeigh. He was also with the Rams floor. So it's kind of a Shanahan McVeigh derivative. So, you know, that's that it's very, very important in that offense. Now, obviously, Kyle Shanahan's different. They're a heavy 21 personnel offense. They play with a fullback and use check, who's more than just a traditional fullback, but still, he plays at a 21 or 22, probably 50% of the snaps, you know, which obviously the Eagles are not going to do. But, but it's, it's, you know, that's his background. So tight ends

are absolutely critical to, to, I'm sure that we're showing Mannion sees offense. So then we know, looking at this tight end room down in Philadelphia, we talked about God, who, you know, has faced injury issues over the last few years, and they had that drop off last year with his blocking, namely after that injury that he suffered early on in the season. You have Stowers, who we talked about, you have more of a receiver than blocker, a rookie. It could be a little bit of a slow burn,

and maybe, you know, who knows, but it could end up being more of a redshirt year for the rookie, but I don't know that they can necessarily, you know, you probably want him to be involved to an extent. Or he could be ready to play in certain packages. You know, he's a second round pick. Second round picks, you know, I made that point about Rausch with the,

The bear second round picks or not throw away picks. Now, obviously, if they don't think he's ready, he won't play because you got to trust players when you put him out there. But I think the assumption is that he certainly can play in packages. You know, maybe he's not playing 50 snaps a game, which is not likely. But I would think, Fran, that they would expect that they could at least give him something and he could be out there. That would be the hope. And then when you pair those guys with Johnny Munt, who obviously more blocker than receiver, crank out of Tatar, more receiver than blocker.

I ask you now, Greg, by or co-sell, the Eagles tight end room going into 2026 as they go into the first year with Sean Mann, you know, as the offensive coordinator. In terms of who's going to be in it? Yeah, you're just overall, like you're feeling optimistic. The same thing as the offensive line earlier. Yeah, I know. I mean, look, let's assume Stowers can play. I mean, like I said, even if it's 20 snaps a game, let's assume he can play. I mean, they are in a position where they could theoretically, you know, and again,

We don't know, you know, Johnny Munn was brought in because he knows this offense like the back of his hand. I mean, could they line up in 13 personnel with Goddard Stowers and Monk, they sure could. And then if you're a defense, how do you respond to that? You're going to play base? You're going to play nickel? I mean, how do you respond to that? You know, you don't know until you see it, I guess. But sure, I mean, you know, they could even line up with Goddard, Calcutterre and Stowers.

I mean, that's, you know, Calcutter is a good receiver. I mean, he can run the seam too. You know, so it'll be very interesting to see. Look, they drafted Stowers for a reason. You know, you're not drafting Stowers. Oh, just because, you know, I don't buy into the, well, he's the best guy available. You know, now you draft guys, obviously, that are right in your range of where you have them on your board. Obviously, you're not drafting a guy in the second round that you have a fourth round grade on.

But when you get to that pick, there's five guys they could have drafted. Yeah. They chose to draft Eli Stowers. So they have a plan. You know, they're not going to announce it publicly, nor should they, and we don't know what it is. But I doubt they drafted Eli Stowers, you know, who's from everything I understand, a pretty sharp young man to not play this year. Now, obviously, we still have to go through training camp, but, you know, I would expect he's going to be on the field in some packages. Well, we're going to talk about the defensive inverse to this, the answer to this on the other side.

Really quickly, actually, really quick, just in keeping with the theme of the day, LeBron James. Let's say LeBron James shows up to training camp. He shows up the Eagles training camp next week. And he says, hey, you know what? Like you guys are shorter player on the roster. You know, they make a move. They're at 89. So I want to come out and play.

You're putting him on offense or you're putting him on defense. You're playing tight end? You're playing in football? Yeah. You're trying to make him a tight end and join the tight end. Well, they always talked about him. They always talked about it being a tight end, you know, back in the day. 6-9.

Yeah, that's pretty interesting. And by the way, I was a little disappointed, Fran. When you talked about two tight ends, you didn't go back to the late 70s with David Hill and Charlie Sanders with the Lions the first time that a team really used two tight ends as a meaningful part of offense. If this was a 75-minute show instead of a 60-minute show, Greg, I was going there next. You read my mind. All right, well, look, we're going to go. We're going to take a quick break.

On the other side, we're going to talk again about the defensive inverse to this discussion, how defenses are responding to these heavy personnel sets. And so trend we've seen over the last few years. Stay tuned for that on the other side. Now, I've got multiple family members that work in casinos locally here in Philadelphia, and to a man, they both agree that Parks Casino is where it's at. And it's my casino of choice. It's our family's casino of choice.

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Gambling problem call 1,800 gambler. 21 or older. Must be physically located in PA. turns and conditions apply in app only back here on the p hl yagles podcast friend duffy with gregg cocell gregg uh you alluded to it earlier the the the increase in the quote unquote big nickel and yeah honestly it's like i think the even though the lines have blurred between like you know quote unquote regular nickel and big nickel because a lot of teams now use the regular use you know a player like cooper de jean who was uh you know 200 pounds as the regular nickel corner and in in years past

I would be the big nickel. But I was listening to an episode, shout out to Robert Mays and the athletic football show recently. And they were having this conversation and they basically said, look, if you look at the number of nickel corners, guys who led their team in slot snaps,

this past season in 2025, versus five years ago, eight years ago, 10 years ago, the number of guys that are around 200 pounds as opposed to 185 pounds has grown like more than exponentially. Like I say it is increased by a large, large number. As teams have gotten bigger inside with players like Kubrick-Rigine,

or you referenced Nick Ammanwari earlier, what does that do for the defense? What are the pluses that they gain from that kind of deployment? Well, that's because you're going to, that player is going to have to be a run defender. And as much as, you know, someone like a Mike Hilton was a great nickel player, you know, he's 5, 8, 180 pounds, I think those days are essentially over. I don't want to say, not as if no one will ever do that again. But, I mean, I think that that prototype style player is not likely to be what people look for to play in the slot.

And, you know, whether you want to call that guy a safety or in the case of Cooper Degina corner, you call him whatever you want. But the reason that's critical, Fran, is because that particular player, based on what the offense shows you, is going to have to be essentially a Sam linebacker at times. and it's going to have to be responsible for the B gap in the run game. And, you know, 180 pound DBs are not going to be able to play the B gap in the run game. The B gap is a space in between the guard and the tackle. So, like, you're really getting into the thick of things down there. Right, right. I'm glad I should have said that too.

Thank you. You're 100% right. You know, Cooper Jean can do that. Emin Wari can do that. You know, there's other. Even though he's a little bit smaller, more compact. Like, you think of like Jalen Petrie and the. The impact that he has, you know, I think that there are a number of these guys.

But honestly, I think of Derwin James and Kyle Hamilton and like those guys come down. Yeah, he's the guy. Yeah. I mean, all these guys, they can do that. I mean, Derwin James is, you know, and obviously he was doing this before of Inwari, you know. So players like that. And, you know, I mean, look, Jesse Minter, who is the head, the de-coordinator for the Chargers. And now he's with Baltimore.

You have to figure Kyle Hamilton is going to play that role. I mean, he's 6-4-220, essentially similar in size to every. and Wari. They're very, very much the same size. So, you know, that player has to be able to be, like I said, essentially a Sam linebacker, a strong side linebacker, the linebacker that, you know, lines up to the passing strain if it's the past game, because the slot is to that side, but in the run game, he's got to be a gap defender. You know, he's got to be able to play that B gap, as you said, at times, not every single time, but depending on what defense, you want to line up and with your front and your coverage.

It gets to another point unrelated to this, but I think it's really worth mentioning. We'll get to it in a minute. But I think that that player now is a really critical player in your defense, you know, especially, you know, when you talk about these multiple tight end offenses, because those offenses can run the, they run the ball. You know, I mean, it's not just, it's not just lining up with three wide and you're going to pass the ball. Do you line up with 12 or 13 personnel?

you got a run game. You mentioned earlier, and we talked about this, you know, obviously on the offensive side of the ball with the multiple tight end sets. And you look at San Francisco and you mentioned like the usage of Kyle Hughescheck. And I remember when they had that, that line up a few years ago and it's, you know, Debo and Iyuk and Kittle and Eusecheck. And it's like, all right, like this, this team, they could do anything with Christian McCaffrey that with those five skill guys out in the field, they can line up in any formation. They can attack you in a million different ways, run, pass, however you want. What's fascinating is that when you get a player with this skill set,

when you've got Cooper regime and you've got the Derwin James, and you utilize that player as kind of like the fulcrum piece in the middle of your defense, well, now you can, you know, I've heard like all the different terms, like you can be that kaleidoscope defensively where, yeah, like now you don't have to change personnel and you can do a lot of different things. Now you're keeping, you're less predictable for the offense. And so it can be like a skeleton key to have that guy in that right.

You've heard Mike McDonald talk about that, you know, where we talked about the fact that we don't have to change personnel. But I think the other factor that plays into that, and I think this is really going to be fascinating in the league going forward. And certainly when it comes to the draft, more and more teams now on defense are lining up in, you know, two high shell structures, two split safety, you know, structures. Yeah. They stay with that, but you're seeing more and more of that. So that means there's one less defender who's an immediate gap defender in the run. You know, safeties can add in, but they're not immediate gap defenders. So what position has become increasingly important?

In fact, I had this conversation with a coach, and, you know, we kind of agree because I've kind of come to this conclusion as well. The most important position, let's say a Fangio-style defense, even though Seattle's not truly Fanjo, they played a high percentage to Shell. De-tackle position is becoming an increasingly important position. You know, we've always thought, oh, edge pass, you got to get an edge pass-ratcher, and you have to have a corner.

And we're not saying you don't need those guys. But de-tackle, I mean, look at Seattle, look at the Eagles, look at a lot of these teams that are really good defense, even the Patriots, you know, last year. Really, really strong at the detackle position. And, you know, I've done a lot of work

on tackles, de-tackles that are likely to be in next year's draft, as I'm sure you have. And it's going to be a really strong detackle draft next year. And it's going to be really interesting to see how that plays out in the draft. But that position is becoming increasingly important because more and more teams are playing with that too high safety structure. Yeah. And when you think of certainly Seattle, the last two Super Bowl winners, you think of Seattle

and, you know, what they had for Leonard Williams and Byron Murphy. And then when you look at the Eagles and you have Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis and you have Morrow Ojimo, you have Milton Williams, you have Fletcher Cox. Like, you know, when you look, Kansas City, they're different in terms of their uses, but you have that, that impact player with Chris Jones. And you have, you know, some other really good players along that front on the interior back then, you know, Wharton and, you know, there you go. Yeah.

I think when you're looking at that position and people, you can get into like the tactics of like, you know, gap and a half, two gap and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, like, hey, you're playing with a lighter box. You need your, it can't just be one for one because the offense wins. All right, like you need your defensive tackles. You need your defensive linemen. You need your linebackers to take on one man plus. It can't be one for one or that's a loss.

And you also need them to be able to either stalemate and or defeat double teams. I mean, think of Byron Murphy with that one knee thing that he does, which not every D tackle can do, obviously. The way he gets down on one knee and literally just holds that point. He doesn't get moved at all. I mean, and don't, you mentioned Leonard Williams. also at Jaron Reed, who gave them a ton of really good snaps.

They had a great three-man rotation. So, you know, that position becomes critical because you're 100% right. You know, football in many ways, and I'm reducing it to simplest terms, but coaches think this way. Football is a game of numbers and matchups. Yep. It's a numbers game. It's a numbers game. And, you know, you nailed it when you said what you said. I mean, if you have one less player, that's an immediate gap defender in the run game, the offense has an advantage.

So, you know, you have to be, those D-Tackles have to be really, really good players. Just bring it back to the, you know, the Cooper Degine of it all. And when you're talking about his role in the defense, the one big thing that we've gotten out of the soft season is that Dijin is going to play safety now in base, whereas in years past he has been a corner. Now, the Eagles are still predominantly a nickel defense. They're not playing a ton of base defense. But what does that mean over?

Does that mean anything for you? Or is it just like, yeah, like that's kind of like, It's not really a few triple effects there. Well, at some point, you got to put your best players out there. I mean, you know, and that's the simplistic response, but it's true. You know, he's going to be better at this point than any other safety they're going to put out there. And he can do that because he's, as you and I both know, he's an incredibly intelligent player. But it also gives the Eagles a ton of versatility and options with their defense because Dijin can pretty much do anything.

You know, he can line up on the back end. You can move him around. you can do anything with him and that makes the defense even in normal down and distant situations much much less predictable and gives them far more variance which makes it tougher for the offense so i will ask you then before we go to break buy or co-sell this role for de jean as like the safety who comes down into the nickel is actually a a better role like for him and it could be like a more fun role for us to be able to study here in the coming months yeah no i'm i'm in total agreement with that. I mean, there was a coach, you know, I don't, I don't name all the coaches I talk to.

You don't either. But there was a coach I talked to who said that he thought Cooper Dijin was the most important player on the Eagles defense. So, you know, and I'm sure that he's not the only one who believes that. You know, so, no, I think it's a positive 100%. Yeah, it's going to be fun to be able to study this moving forward. Now, on the other side, we've got our one final break here. we're going to talk through, go back to the offensive side, like new play callers around the NFL, some of the challenges they're going to face, then also just kind of touch based on some of the things that Greg and I have been up to watching some college tape here on the other side of this final break. So earlier today, our Sixers crew had to jump on doing an emergency podcast. And I got

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Back again here on the P.HO.I. Eagle Show and Greg, you know, we did an exercise here on the show earlier this week. I should send you this because I'd actually like to pick it right. You would enjoy this as much as, you know, to like picking through the minutiae of like the roster. It was a good way to like kind of like recalibrate and look at rosters of around the league. But basically, Bo EJ and I, we went through an exercise like a draft where we had to fill out 32 slot rosters, but you could only pick one person from each team. And once you

could so be, so if you pick, uh, you know, Josh Allen, you can't pick James Cook. If you pick Howie Roseman, you can't pick Jalen Carter. Right. Like, so you have to be kind of, uh, smart about who you pick. Uh, and it's, it's a, it's a fun exercise. Now, one of the things in terms of preparing for that is you got to look around. You can see like, all right, these are the, uh, these are the area, this team, man, there's, it's kind of slim pickings. Like, you know, you look at Miami's roster and like, man, that's, that's, that's rough. But then you look around it also, like, the state of positions and roles around the NFL. And you're like, wow, like, there's, you know, there's a change of the guard at this position,

a lot of young players or just, it's, it's kind of different. Offensive coordinator is fascinating. Yeah. Literally the, the, the, I think it's the lack of patience, both good and bad, the, the, the, the, the turnover in that role is remarkable, uh, where it's basically like, you've got a year, maybe two. And if you don't show like you're going to be like, you can get that team to a top 10 offense, you're out. And if you do get them to that top 10 offense, you're hired away to go run somebody else's offense or be a head coach. And so what that means is now there's a lot of

unproven play callers this, this year, because there's like half the league's changed play caller this, this off season. A lot of new faces. Sean Mannion, obviously being one of them. them, and you mentioned how he's such a young coach, unlikely that you hit the ground running in that role, right? There are going to be bumps along the road. What are the bumps that Sean Mannion and everybody else of his ilk are going to be facing here this fall? I would say the biggest issue, again, you know,

just so people understand, you know, I didn't prepare for this, you know, so when you asked me that, I didn't know you were going to ask me that. So I would say the biggest thing is the game itself. All these guys, Because they're all really smart. I mean, I got a chance to spend some time with Grand Udinsky this summer, who's a young going into a second year as the offensive coordinator for Jacksonville. And obviously, he's thought of extremely highly and just talking to him.

I mean, you can see just how incredibly intelligent he is. And if they have another great year, like you said, I'll probably be a head coach next year, you know, at a young age. But I think it's the games themselves because I think all these guys can, you know, go on an iPad or on a blackboard or, you know, talk about the X's and O's and they can map out schemes and, you know, and pass game concepts and run game concepts and, you know, believe me. As you well know, these guys think about this stuff 24-7, 365 just because they might, you know, be off, you know, for a month or so, you know, they're still thinking about this

stuff. Believe me, you know that. So I think it's the games themselves and how you work through a game because, you're You know, all coaches can look at the first 12 or 15 plays and feel like, okay, I know how you want to attack this defense based on, you know, what they've shown us in the past or based on what we know about the defensive coordinator. But then the game happens. And then you've got to be able, I don't want to say adjust, because I think the better word is react, you know, because the defense is not showing you something you've never seen before in your life, you know. So it's just a matter of how do you react to the situations that present themselves? You know, maybe you've gotten more. more third and eights than you anticipated going into the game. You know, maybe there's more opportunities on second and two than you thought and that in your mind, hey, do we want to just get the first down or do we want to take a shot

for a big, you know, I think I'm simplifying it to the nth degree, as you know, but I think it's the games themselves because Sean Mannion, you know, and again, everything I've heard is incredibly positive, but he's not called a game in the game. You know, and I think that's what the issue. I don't want to say issue. it might turn out wonderfully. But I mean, I think that's the challenge. Yeah.

That's a challenge. Yeah. I think that that's 100% right. And at the end of the day, when you ascend it, it's, you know, it's no different than any other line of work when that is a, you know, mid-level manager or whatever. And they rise up to role of manager. And now all of a sudden, you're not doing, you know, doing as much of the work. And you are managing more people, right? Because now, you know, Sean Manning, not only does he have to do the game day, you know, go through the game day stuff.

But he's also, like, got to manage Jamal Singleton and Chris Cooper and, you know, Aaron Moorhead and answer up to Nick Siriani. And he's in more of like the team-wide stuff than he would have been when he was the quarterback's coach last year in Green Bay. So there's a lot of new responsibility thrown in years. That's a great point.

I mean, it's funny. You know, I created the matchup show in 1984. My guess is if I look back at shows in 1986 or 1987, I either laugh or cry, one or the other or maybe both, you know. But, I mean, you just, yeah, The only way to learn is to do it. Yep. And, you know, are there going to be, you know, bumps in the road?

Sure. And look, any, any market, you know, we know about Philly fans and everybody talks about it. But that's true in any market to a certain extent. You know, obviously, if they lose, you know, week one to Washington, I believe, is the week one opponent, because fans think that Sean Mannion made a bad call. Believe me, they're going to let him know about it. And I'm sure sports truck radio that week would be just lighting up and ripping Sean Mannion. But that's he's going to, you know, and I'm not.

I'm not saying that's going to happen. I'm just saying, you know, theoretically could it happen? Sure. But, you know, that's how you learn. It's not all going to be sunshine and rainbows for the offense. It's very unlikely that it will be all sunshine and rainbows out of the gate. Like, I do expect that there's going to be, you know, there's going to be bumps in the road in the first half of the season as they try and find their way. And we mentioned all the different factors.

And, you know, Jalen is adjusting to a new feel and a new offense and no AJ. And like, what does the run game look like, new offensive line coach? Like, the whole deal. Like, to me, like, there are so many factors at play. I mean, we think, yeah, like the defense is going to be ahead of the offense to start the season. And, you know, we'll see what they look like by the time we get to late October. And now you know what your identity should be. Are they able to kind of reach that ceiling?

So, you know, I think that that will be fascinating to watch. But, again, I don't expect it to be perfect early. And I think the other thing is you don't know how players are going to react in the offense until you're actually playing games. You have a feel for that and a sense of it. But there's no way, I mean, because I've had this conversation, and I'm sure you have to. There's no way that Sean Mannion or, you know, Nick Siriani knows exactly how Jalen Hertz is going to be in this offense until they play games. You just don't know. They'll have a sense, you know, based on everything that's happened to this point and then through training camp.

But they don't know that for sure until they're playing, you know, against a real defensive opponent. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be fun to watch. I said it earlier this summer, but I feel. trying to think of the right way to say this January, February, I was a little worried about what this could look like, right? Like I was like, I was like, oh, like, I don't know. Like, it felt a little bit like how it felt in 2020, where it was, you know, you're bringing a lot of new minds and a lot of cooks in the kitchen kind of deal.

And it just never, they never really found their way offensively. That identity never really congealed together. But then listening to all the players at press conferences, talking with some people behind the seats as well, but really honestly, like, listening. to the guys talk like in front of the microphone and listening to Nick Siriani talk about it, listening to Mannion talk for the first time, listening to Jalen, Sequin, Lane, like the whole deal. It feels like everybody's rowing the same direction. Like saying, I feel like that like, yeah, they're leaning into what this identity is going to be. It's going to be, it's going to be interesting. I'm cautiously optimistic about what it's going to look like. I think they, I think they know,

Fran, that this style of offense has been very successful in the league. Yeah. I mean, you know, these, these players, look, with so much social. media and they talk to one another and all that with different teams. They know that this sort of Shanahan-McVeigh hybrid, whatever, you know, that's what it's essentially going to be. That's been really successful in the league. There probably be people in the league that they tell you that those two guys are the best of what they do. You know, Ben Johnson might, you know, would fit into that conversation, I'm sure. But, you know, we know that the Shanahan-McVey tree, as it were, to use that term, is certainly been very successful in the league. Yeah, well, so I guess

it would be suffice to say that you would be, if we're going buy or co-sell, you are buying. We don't know that it's going to be, that it's going to hit, but you're buying the, you're buying the optimism. I mean, I agree with you. I mean, this one's hard to say yes or no, because it's going to be a work in progress. Yep. But, you know, I would expect it to at some point, you know, and that is not likely to be week one. You know, it could be week four.

It could be week nine. You don't know. But I would expect at some point that it will be. it will be good. It will be more positive than negative. I want to respond to my POV life in the chat. We're saying like, oh, here we go again with the identity talk. Week one, what is the identity of this team? Week two, what is the identity of this team?

Week three, what is the identity of this team? I got news for you. That's what coaches do in the first change of the season. Literally, they are asking. I was listening this morning. I mentioned the second athletic football show drop on this episode. They had an interview with Clayton Adams, the offensive coordinator with the Cowboys.

And he literally had that. He was like, yeah, we go into a season and I've got all these things I want to do and all these different runs, all these different passes, and this is what we want. But you don't know what you're going to be until you get there. There are years where we want to be an outside zone team. And then we get to October and I'm like, we are not a good outside team. We're going to throw that out. That is not our identity. To me, like, that is what teams are trying to do. You're whittling out the things that you're not good out. Just to give you an example of with Sean McVeigh, who's obviously one of the best in the league. I don't think anybody would dispute that. Three years there, when Todd Gurley was Todd Gurley, they were outside zone all the way. Yep. Okay, Todd Gurley, then, you know, due to injury, you know, couldn't play anymore and had to retire. They get Kyron Williams. Okay, Kyron Williams is not an outside zone runner.

So now what do they run? They run inside zone and duo and then gap scheme, because that's what Kyron Williams is a square your shoulder run vertically kind of runner. He's not an outside zone runner. So, you know, you have to sort of work through all that, and then you get to the end of the road. and you know what you have. You don't know until you play these games, and then you're 100% right. That's the way coaches, you know, I can tell you for a fact

because, you know, I speak to people down in Tennessee. Do they know exactly what Cam Ward's going to look like in Brian Dable's offense as we speak today? Of course they don't. They have a sense, but they don't know for sure until they start playing the games. Yep. Look, the idea is you want to be able to define what it is that you're good at.

And then it's up to the coaches. All right, we've got to get to the lab to, basically dress up the things that we're good at and attack teams a different ways. Hey, we're not running outside zone from the same personnel grouping, the same formation all the time, but we're going to get into it from different looks and we're going to be a little bit more unpredictable in terms of, you know, the down and distance situation and things of that, things of that to set yourself up. And it's more like you're marrying up a run and pass and all of those buzzwords that we talk

about. Every team has runs and past plays that they feel like, hey, we can run these against anybody because we're really good at them. Now, they might run them from different personnel and different formations, but the concept I'm talking about. And you have to know, hey, and your quarterback is a part of that.

I mean, your quarterback is critical to that. You know, Jalen will know what he's really comfortable with in this offense. Now, he may not know that today, but he'll know that as we go further down the road. Well, we're going to continue talking about this. We've got a little bit more to hit on here. We're now going to go into overtime.

obviously today with LeBron James. And you should know we've already got LeBron James merch up on all p.hly.com. Check out. We got the shirts already. You got the trust-the-process shirts. LeBron, I want one of these shirts. And I will tell you, I wear the P-H-L-Y merch all the time. Extremely comfortable T-shirts.

I find them to be very, very wearable. So I will be making sure I get one of these. I like this black one front and center. So I will be jumping on one of these processed T-shirts. Check that out over at all P-HL-Y. dot com. Greg, I've got one more thing I want to ask you about in terms of like the college players you've been watching lately. But really quick, we've got to check in with our friend Bo Wolf, who's been, he's been busy. He's not on the show today, but out on the street,

getting the, taking the temperature of Eagles fans on the street here. I know he was down in South Philly. Let's head it over to our friend, Bo Wolfe. We close Philly week with a trip to the Mecca. Lincoln Financial Field. And where do people go when they come to the Eagle Stadium? That's right. They come to pay homage to a man, a coach, a play. What's up, guys?

You know what it is going on YouTube? Yeah. Tell me what you think about the statue. Good statue? Good statue? We like it? Yeah, it's called PHLY. Yeah.

The cool thing they did about it is they made a hollow, so it's lighter if they need to transport it. It's really nice. I like that. Yeah. How do we feel about Foles? Goat. It's probably Go Big Blue on that one.

Yeah, this kid's. Okay. Do you say Go Dolphins? Yeah, that poverty-ass. Dolphins. Get out of it, bro. Leave. Bye YouTube.

Thanks, guys. All right, let's take a look at Fulz's. But? The attention to detail here. Fantastic. Doug. I think they did a very good job with Doug. The nose.

The look of seriousness. All the wires. Doug wore those wires well. There's Nick. You want Philly, Philly? Why not? Get around this bad boy. Looking good, Doug.

Good Nick and the inscription, you want Philly, Philly February 4th, 2018, Bud Light. A moment that will live forever. And if you come to Philly, you've got to see it. Just truly unique work from our friend Boil Wolf. Greg, you've done a lot of great breakdowns in your day. I don't know that anybody, including yourself, could have broken down that statue better than Bo did there. I don't think I've seen that statue recently, but... Look, a good way to wrap up City and State Week.

So thank you to Bo and EJ for outstanding content all week long on that front. Greg, we are at the time of year where you now transition from watching a lot of college tape. You've been doing a lot of summer study on prospects to the NFL tape. So let me ask you this. You're going to your tag. You're like, you know what? I want to watch. I want to get a sense of what this Eagles offense could look like.

Obviously, you know, you've been watching. watching all these offenses for years and years. But if you wanted to get a, try and take a temperature of Sean Mannion, where do you think you'd start? If you were an Eagles fan and you wanted to get a say, where would you start? And you said, like, I want to get a taste of what this offense could look like. Would you go with, would you go with Green Bay last year? Do you think you'd go to McVeigh stuff?

Where do you think you'd start? I mean, I guess my sense is you'd go with Green Bay and then McVeigh. Because obviously the Eagles are not going to be in 21 personnel. And I think the way that UCHECC is used with San Francisco. Cisco and Shanahan is kind of, you know, different. I mean, he's not just a pure fallback. And so I would look at Green Bay and I probably look at McVeigh as well because, you know, McCaffrey is also a different kind of back, you know, than Barclay is. So, you know, he can do the way they use McCaffrey is much in a much more versatile way than Barclay, because I think he's

that kind of player. I'm not sure Barclay can do those kinds of things that McCaffrey can do. So, you know, I think Green Bay and the Rams would be where you'd take a look. Yeah, there was a, the quote that kind of caught my eye, or made my ears perk up, however we want to say that. Sequin's saying they had me watching Todd Gurley. You know, that one, that caught my eye. Oh, there you go. So that'll be interesting to.

I mean, that's outside zone. For those three years, I think it was three years. I mean, Gurley and that outside zone scheme was as good as a run scheme in the league. when they hit. That was when McVeigh first got there. So yeah, that'll be fun to track here. We'll shut the book here on the, just college football. You've been studying some of these prospects.

We all expected the Eagles, a lot of people expected that the Eagles were going to address offensive line early in this draft. You get Mark Hellbell in the third round. But they missed out on a few of the blue chip tackles. They all went early. I think a lot of people anticipated that they probably would have gone that direction if they had their druthers.

Are there any tackles? that kind of caught your eye more than any other, you know, more than others during your summer film study for this year's college football season. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because two of the, quote, quote, tackles are going to be guards as rookies, you know, so you never know how it works out. Yeah, you know that. Now we know is going to play right guard for the Giants and I believe Proctor is going to play guard for the, uh, who, I forget who drafted him. Miami, yep. Miami, right. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you know, you don't know. Um, you know, obviously different guys have different skill sets.

I would say the guy that struck me when it comes to pass pro and the way he moves was Jordan Seton, who's going from Colorado to LSU. Yeah. I mean, just in terms of the way in which he moves and the way in which he pass sets, you know, he really struck me as a guy that I felt, wow, this is, this is, you know, pretty high level in terms of the movement and the setting, you know, needs a little work in the run game. I don't know if you've got a chance to look at him.

But, you know, I think he's, to me, he looked like he's got all the traits needed to be equality pass protector at the next level. Yeah. And then did you do Trevor Gooseby, the left tackle from? I did. Yeah, would you do him? I haven't done him yet. I like Goosby. I mean, you know, I didn't come away going, oh, my God. But, I mean, clearly, I think he's pretty powerful. I think he's a plus athlete. I don't think, for instance, he's athletic as, let's say, banks from a couple years ago at Texas.

I don't think he's that level of athlete. But I think he might be a stronger player. I did a, you know, just for the sake of it, I did like a two early mock draft back in May. We're just like, all right, these are names. Like, I kind of talk with scouts, like around the league. And it's like, all right, like, who could be on the radar? And this was actually a player that I studied in the fall, thinking that he might enter this class and I ended up going back to school.

Have you done Stanford's tackle Nicky Prongos? No, and he was on my list, but I may not get to him because I got to turn to the NFL. But I have actually, I've seen his name and I've seen that, you know, a lot of people like him. I guess you did him, huh? Yeah, I did him back in the, I want to say, so actually, actually I can tell you, I did it back in November because I, you know, kind of heard that this could be a guy that if he enters, he's going to get a senior ball invite and, you know, Greg, he, he didn't play high school football. He was an international kid. You know, it was from California, but then he, like, he went abroad during COVID, like to be with family and then came to. Right, right.

Yeah, it was a, he's kind of been, you know, very short shelf life of football. He came back just to play his senior year. I think he played like, you know, a handful of snaps and then tore his ACL. So he had like no, basically no film from high school, walked on in Los L.A., played a couple years there as a backup and a reserve when Chip Kelly was there. And then he leaves and he goes to Stanford and he started this past year for the first time. Effortless mover, really smooth off the ball. Wow. Like they, to me, he is, it's different because the total experience level is not quite the same.

But if there was like a maxi honature in this year's class where it's, like, all right, this guy ended up, he was a, you know, didn't play a ton of football. Right, right. And it ends up being a first round pick. I could see Nikki Prongos from Stanford being that player this year. So that's a name to your mark. None of this matters, because from what I'm told, there's going to be, you know, 32 quarterbacks taken in the first round. So I think it doesn't matter on the first round.

Right, right. So it doesn't matter about these other positions because, you know, there's going to be 32 quarterbacks taken in the first round. Yeah, it's, look, it's going to be a fun. It is good, it's a good year. There's a lot of talent. It is. Yeah. I mean, there's some good, I'm sure you've looked at Camp Coleman and Jeremiah Smith.

They're, I mean, they're ridiculous. I mean, the receivers are awesome. I did the Leonard. I'm going to give you two names out of nowhere, okay? Okay. Yes, so that's what I want. Okay, what do you got? All right, I'm going to give you two names out of nowhere.

And again, these guys could either be first round picks or fourth round. I mean, just guys that I really enjoyed watching and I felt like, oh, with another year, I could see these guys, you know, being seriously in the, conversation, whatever that means. Got it. Okay. All right. There's a linebacker from Georgia named Chris Cole.

You know who he is? Yeah. Yep. He's on the list. I haven't done him yet, but he's on my list. 6-3-235, which is the same size as Fred Warner. And I'm not saying he's Fred Warner. And this guy was a rotation, you know, kind of a rotational player because obviously they

had, they had Allen and Raylan Wilson, who's also going to come out this year. But this cold kid, I mean, I knew nothing about him. And I'm watching the tape with George's D because I'm watching Wilson, who has to come out. I'm watching K.J. Bolden, who's likely to come out. I'm watching the corner Ellis Robinson, who doesn't have to come out. But everybody seems to think he's a first-round talent. Did you think he was a first-round talent, Robinson? You know, I'm bad with deciding where a guy should go.

Was he like that kind of guy for you, like, you think? No, but I think he's got a lot of trades, but I didn't see him right now as like an, oh, my God, guy. Same page. Okay. I thought, I thought it's the way. So I'm watching this. I'm seeing all of a sudden this number, nine on defense, like, who is this guy? And I ended up watching him more and more and more. And I'm telling you, I, you know, again, let's assume he's a good kid and all that great. You know, I don't, you know, I don't know any of that stuff. But I did look him up and he was a big time five star,

you know, that every school wanted. And I just came away watching this guy going, wow, you know, this guy could, you know, he's not in the conversation now, but he's going to be. And the other guy that really struck me. And this name, he's not a name totally out of the blue like Chris Cole. But I was really intrigued by Yonse Pierre from Alabama. Yeah. This guy's got traits for Alabama. Yeah. He ended up being one of the leaders in the SEC and pressures this past year. And he also played stackbacker at times. I mean, I'm not sitting here saying he's, he's, I'm drawing a total blank. It's crazy. Rees, you know, from Ohio State, you know, but he kind of was used that way at times. And I just, again, another year continued development. I could easily see that guy

being talked about quite a bit. We talked about like the hybrid, like big nickel players and that that skill set. And we see, we saw, obviously we saw Arvo Reese go top five this year. We saw Jalen Walker go top 15 last year. Do you think that that's just, hey, that it just happened that we had two players with this unique skill set come through and be high picks? Or do you think that that's kind of like a, maybe a sign of things to come that more of these guys are going to have that kind of versatile skill set. Well, I think you have to have the athlete to be able to do that. But these guys are, we're seeing better and better athletes, obviously, overall, you know,

in every position. That's a great question because I think one thing that's showing up in the league, too, is, you know, we always talked about for years and years and years and years, edge pass rushers. And obviously, I'm not saying that's not important. But now a lot of times because teams defensively are, lining up with a lot of five-man fronts or a lot of fronts where the five come and it's not a blitz per se the way we think a blitz because they want their best pass rusher matched against a guard or a center, you know. So, you know, I think, I don't know if it will be true hybrids like

Reese and maybe Pierre, but I think you're going to see a lot of these strong pass rushers working from the inside at time and not in a three-point stance. You know, like they're lining up as a three technique de-tackle. They're almost lining up a little bit like a stand-up joker type, but they're going to attack inside and get the one-on-one against the guard or center. Yeah, it's something that I've been thinking about as well, just going into this college football season

is keeping my eye out for that kind of skill set just because it was so good for the last two cycles. Greg, really appreciate it. Obviously, we're on the precipice of training camp here in Philadelphia. So getting ready to be back in busy season. for taking some time for us and joining us here on the PHLY Eagles podcast. Thanks for you.

That was a lot of fun. It was great. It was great. So thanks to Lindsay behind the scenes. Thanks to Bo. Thanks to E.J. Thanks to LeBron. Thanks to Kyle and Badner and Devon.

Thanks to all of you out there. Thanks to the sickos in the chat. We'll be back here next week here on the Ph.L.Y. Eagle show. We've got enjoy the last weekend, the last full weekend here before training camp kicks off. Happy LeBron Day to all those to celebrate. And as always, we love you. Like the mayor.