PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - As Kellen Moore departs Philadelphia Eagles, who will be Jalen Hurts’ next offensive coordinator?

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

For the fifth time in seasons in the NFL and the ninth time in 10 seasons dating back to college, Jalen Hurts will have a new offensive coordinator. Kellen Moore is off to become the New Orleans Saints head coach, leaving Nick Sirianni to make another critical hire. Who are the candidates and what should the Eagles be looking for?Zach Berman and Bo Wulf are back together in studio with thoughts on how the Eagles move forward and, most importantly, leftover thoughts about the Super Bowl LIX victory and everything that happened the rest of the evening. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

the PHLY Eagles podcast presented by Bet365, download the Bet365 app and use code PHLY365 when you sign up, whatever the moment. It's never ordinary at Bet365 Bull Wolf, Zach Berman, Zach, how the hell are you? Nice to see you.

I've missed you. I haven't seen you in so long. We went about 16 hours apart. That's the longest we've been. Too long as far as I'm concerned. 16 hours also your combined sleep for the past week. It doesn't matter. No one wants hear about the sleep, they only want to hear about the work. So what matters here is that

the last time we were in the studio, the Eagles were preparing for the Super Bowl, and now they are Super Bowl champions. And on Friday, I'm doing my, getting my directions, correct? That way, there is going to be a parade. It's actually

that way and that way, because it's on South Korea. It's there and then it sort of wraps around all the way that. That's what I'm saying, yeah. So I was just getting my orientation correct, but there will be a parade on Broad Street on Friday. And the listeners are happy to know that you will be there. It sounds that way, not official, but yeah, it sounds that way.

Okay. Yes. Marred. Married? No, Mared. Marred. What does that mean? That's French.

I don't know French. Maybe you're never going to learn. I know Jardot-L-Eagles. Paris Campbell. I did take French in 6th and 7th grade and 8th grade. Wasn't particularly good at it, but I remember some of it, not all of it.

My favorite part of French class from 7th and 8th grade was, you know how you got like a big whiteboard and there's the little ledge where the markers go? We used to play a game called Jeuse Olympique before the teacher arrived where we would try to go as back as far as possible and throw the markers to land in the ledge.

And I think I was the greatest player at this game was ever. It doesn't surprise me that you think so. Yeah, I mean, one of my greatest skills of all time. I was fantastic, and hopefully that becomes an Olympic sport at some point. So how's your French? Very mediocre. Okay.

But the Eagles are not mediocre. Eagles are Super Bowl champs. And that'll do it for this episode of the Super Bowl champion, P.H.L.E.L.E.E. No, if you want to celebrate the Eagles championship, go to the PHLY store. Get your hands on some of this merch, the gold standard. What are we? The Dream Team? I mean, what's going on here with these phrasing?

What are we going to do? Is T.O. Second year? What's going on here? Gold standard. World champions, world FN champs. It's a Philly thing. All of that stuff available at the P.HL.Y store. These things are flying off the shelves.

You want to get a part of it. And also, great chance to become a diehard because we got a little bit of a sale there as well as we celebrate the Eagles championship. Zach, how... Well, my guess is when Jeffrey Lurie said that back 20, years ago now. He was actually probably just thinking ahead to when we were having... He knew what was coming? Yeah. He knew one day there'd be P-H-O-I and we would be selling these, this great merch. And so when he said the Eagles are the gold standard, he was actually

comparing it to the great merch that was coming out. He knew. He knew. Man knows. How you doing? I'm well. What was the arrival home like? How excited, how fired up was Reed about the Eagles? Oh, the kids were so excited. The kids came running out when I got out. the Uber. Felt awesome getting greeted by them. Yeah. It was really cool. Dissecting the game.

Actually, I didn't say this because we actually didn't do a, you know, we were, we did spots on the show, but we didn't do a show. Reed, I asked Reed for a prediction in the game. And he said, Cooper the Gene is going to have his first interception on his birthday. Oh, nice. He did not say pick six, but he said first interception on his birthday. And so he nailed that. Very extremely Zach Berman of you from what you've told us about how you feel about his little league exploits to make sure that you get in there that he did not correctly predict that it was going to be a pick six.

He basically hit a dribbler to the shortstop saying that Cooper to Gene was going to get a pick. And not really worth celebrating as far as they're concerned. No, I'm literally giving him credit on the show. But yeah, it nailed it. So proud of my son for that one. That's a great job by him. Yeah. But no, he's ecstatic about.

the Eagles he really he's pumped for this parade he wants to know what a Super Bowl parade is like he's also uh he was born in 2017 which you remember because the Eagles won the Super Bowl there yeah uh so so he he's like you know they never won a Super Bowl before I was born and now they want two of them I I'm trying to explain like cause and correlation, but I'm not going to rain on his parade. I hope there's no rain on his parade this weekend either. There you go. How about that turn of phrase?

We have some news, though, Zach. Yes. We have some new. Now, listen, we got lots of talk about. You and I have not really unpacked the game itself. We have some leftover thoughts, you know, what the night was like, the locker room and the post game party, all that stuff. But there is Eagles news to get to that we need to address at the top.

What is that, my friend, the Stone Cold Newsman? Kevin Moore has officially been named the head coach of the New Orleans Saints. This was expected. The Eagles have been expecting this. I should make that clear. This is something that behind the scenes, Eagles have talked about.

Jeffrey Lurie spoke about it on the record the other night. But the Saints in the last 10 minutes, I believe, made their official announcement. They have the Photoshop with him in Saints gear. I believe, according to our friend Nick Underhill, the Saints were up in Philly

today, finalizing this with more. So the Eagles now are going for a new offensive coordinator and um johan hurts will killymour get to go to the parade you think my guess is no my guess is no john d flippo did not go to the parade uh back in 2017 because he was working out the deal with the viking's then so no uh my guess is he'll be down there and probably have his press conference once you know what i'm thinking back i don't i don't think i saw kellen more after the game i don't think i saw him in the locker room did you i did not see him parting in the locker i did see him walking off the

field, yes. Off the field. Yes, yes, yes. But like when we were there in the locker room and then the little sequester afterwards, I don't think I ever saw Kelmore. I did not see that. Interesting. But he did come back with the team from my understanding.

Right. Yes. Didn't see him at the postgame party either. Did not. No. By the way, let me pump you up here. I said this on Anthony's show. Here we go.

No, on all p.gly.com right now. There's a piece by bow that is awesome. We were there at the Eagles after party, at the team hotel, and Bo used, you know, we always talk about using your senses. Bo had not just really good observations, but like very poignant storytelling. When we were walking back from that and you were explaining what you saw, I couldn't wait to read it. And it's beyond what I expected. Or I expected to be great, but it surpassed what I even expected. So make sure you check that out on all-Phly.com.

and we have a promo now. If you're not a subscriber, you can subscribe now $4 a month for 12 months to $48 a year. Look, it's worth it just to get Fran Duffey's draft guide. But in it, but all our other stories, including this one, make sure you check that out. Very kind of you to say. And also on there fresh this morning is Fran Duffy's breakdown of the Super Bowl and the six huge plays or storylines that jumped out to him for why the Eagles are Super Bowl champions and just dominated that game.

So, Kellemore. So this is what I can tell you. Going back to when the Eagles hired him, the Eagles knew there was a chance this could be a one-year arrangement. And they were still interested in hiring him then because of his ideas. I think the way I framed it on the show is that if the Eagles are really good, he's going to get a job somewhere else. If the Eagles are really bad, there's going to be a new staff.

Or if the Eagles underachieve, there's going to be a new staff. The Eagles were really good. The offense wasn't electric, but they, you know, the they were certainly the way they finished the season was outstanding and Kellan Moore gets that Saints job so now the Eagles have this search the top internal candidate is Kevin Petuo as as we discussed it might not be a lock certainly the way the Super Bowl went helps the case I think if if there was resistance to it it was the idea that maybe you need this this play calling experience or you need this outside voice

one thing that Nick Siriani has said is that different times call for different hires, right? And I think given the way this season's gone, I think the Eagles are going to value continuity. I think one thing they'll sell. And I spoke to Kevin Beto O'LW last week and I'll have a piece on all phti.com in the next few days about this is Patuo really insists that he's not just an extension of Siriani, that there are differences, that they can disagree, that they have different thoughts. the other thing, Kellyn Moore was instrumental in the, or he was really the point man, working with Kellan Moore. Petulah was.

I'm sorry, Kevin Petulah, yeah, Kevin Petul. And putting together the serious offense, which include like the Jeff Staling run concepts and Kellan Moore's ideas. So Petulow obviously knows the system that probably better than anyone in the staff that they've been doing this past year. He's been in a number of different places, but he has not been. an offensive coordinator before. So if that's your concern, there's nothing I can tell you

to push back on that. What the Eagles could do... Also meaning he hasn't called the place. Yes, yes. What the Eagles could do is they could have a senior offensive assistant because you have to remember, Patuo is the passing game coordinator at this moment.

So if Ptuo slides over, there is that void in terms of passing game coordinator. So maybe that's someone like a Frank Reich. I don't know. But maybe you bring in someone who has experience, as kind of that senior offensive assistant. I want to spend some real time on Petulow here. But quickly before that,

do you expect that quarterback's coach Doug Nussmeyer is going to leave to go with Killenmore to become his OC? Yeah, so you asked Nick Siriani a week and a half ago, Nick's policy on this. And should I explain it or do you this? Go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, so Nick said that he tells coaches, this is my staff.

You don't take from my staff. Now he says, sometimes you can't help it. He used the example of Nick Rallis. By the way, this is applicable for Nick Siriani when he brought Jonathan Gannon with him. That league rules prevent him. It's funny from Nick because he brought Gannon. He brought Michael.

He brought Jason Michael. So in the case of Patoa, no, Stuyo. No, no, Stuyahin was coming in fine. So this actually has an Eagles, Eagles tie. And my understanding in the situation with the Colts is that they wanted to move Mike Rowe over to wide receivers coach. Right.

Or had that already had. There was something like that. There was something with Mike Rue. They wanted Mike Rowe at a wide receivers coach. And so they were, there were a few different things there or maybe Patul had had moved over from receivers coach something of that

of that nature he was also he was Nick's right-hand man he was literally on the plane with with Nick I don't know the Jay's the Jason Michael situation Gannon in Gannon's situation they couldn't block him and Gannon was going to be a defense coordinator anywhere so Nick Rallis a few years

ago the Eagles really liked Nick Rallis I think Nick Rallis would have been a possibility to be the defense coordinator here if the Eagles had an internal promotion but he followed again into Arizona. And I don't know how thrilled Eagles were by that. I don't know how thrilled Siriani was by that. But by league rules, you can't block a position coach

from becoming a coordinator somewhere else. This is something that in the past, the Packers always blocked Andy Reed from getting a promotion to coordinator. You can't do that based on league rules. So if, and I'll say this about Doug Nussmeyer, he was Kellan Moore's guy. Kellyn Moore brought him to the staff.

He's worked with Kellyn Moore in Dallas. He's worked with Kellynmore with the Chargers. He's worked with Kellanmore here, obviously. So three different places. They come from the same. But, you know, they both have Scott Linnehan ties. Also, Doug Nussmeyer would presumably be getting that promotion to O.C. So the Eagles couldn't block it.

And the other part is his son is the quarterback at LSU. So when you look at the fact that he's Kellynne Moore's guy, that he would get a promotion, that it makes sense for, you know, he has a lot of family in Louisiana. I believe his wife is from Louisiana, Nussmeyer. he played for the Saints, right? So I can't imagine that there will be resistance there

in terms of Nussmeyer going to the Saints. I think if you are worried about what happened to the staff in 2022 to 2023, that's reasonable because you are also, once again, late in the cycle. But I think there are reasons to, and we will get to Petulo,

I think there are reasons to feel better about it, several reasons. First of all, you're only replacing one. Second of all, I think part of the reason that the Eagles think last year went so wrong on the coaching staff

is that it wasn't just the coordinators it was a bunch of other position coach things that they had to change. Whereas this year even if you lose more and Nussmeyer it seems like the defensive staff is going to be intact. Yes. They should like, it's not ideal but it's not the entire staff

that you have to replace. I think the offensive side of the ball was a different conversation from last year. There was a lot behind the scenes, whether it was Nick, whether it was Jalen. I think on defense the one thing they'll say is that they were not adequately prepared for Gannon leaving. They thought Gannon was coming back.

I mean, Jeffrey Lurie literally said this in the locker room after the game. When asked about Vic Fangio, he said, well, we wanted him a year ago if we knew Jonathan was leaving. Right. Right. The whole sour grapes, the whole sour grapes over Gannon was that they didn't get the higher Fangio. Because had they known Gannon was going, Fangio would not have accepted that Dolphins job and would

state like that i mean we we've we've heard fanjio say it we've heard the eagles say it so the eagles basically did this search and then had to replace the staff too once uh yeah so that won't because they lost ralus and remember they also lost denard wilson because denard wilson was not hired exactly so yeah so both levels there yep um so that's that's the fundamental difference is they've known this from before the super bowl i think they're adequately i think they have their idea in mind even if they hire externally. I think they know the guys they would talk to, but I think they're much better prepared for this than they were again in leaving.

So I think that's the big difference here. So the Petulow dynamics are interesting. And for the reasons that you've talked about, like they are as close as it gets on the staff. You know, there's a scene in the story about like, that I have on the H.O.I about the moment that Nick and Petulow have. And you do wonder about like the juice in the building. I think it would be perceived.

fairly or not that if they hire Petulow, then like Nick got his guy. And I don't know that's necessarily fair. It's possible that internally you know, Howie and Jeffrey think that this is the guy who deserves the job. They have been able to watch it up close more than we have.

I think there are a couple ways to think about it. If you're worried about like, well, you know, wasn't the lesson from this year that Nick needs to be divorced from the offense more and focus on everything else? If this is his guy, does that mean it's going to be his offense? I think it could mean you know, maybe he's more likely to meddle.

It could also mean this is the guy he trusts more than anybody, more than anyone he's willing to leave him alone and run the way things go on offense. And so for the reasons you talked about, Petulow being, viewing himself as viewing offense a little bit differently than Nick does, I don't think that it, I mean, it's always impossible to know ahead of time, but I'm curious to see how this all works just from, you know, mechanics of who's got stuff in the building. And then you would also have to think if it's not Petulow, like Petulah's got to feel some kind of way about that, right? Yeah, I think you outlined it well. So if Nick's watching

this show right now, he might push back on my description of this, but Brian Johnson, even at the beginning, was not a Nick hire. Brian Johnson, Nick had no previous relationship of Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson was brought to him by Howie Roseman. Brian Johnson was very well, I'm not saying Nick and Brian Johnson didn't get along, but I would imagine that, well, and I should also add, Kevin Patuo was not a Howie hire, right? Kevin Patoa was the guy Nick brought with him. Right. So there are different dynamics there.

I think after the 2022 season, I'm not saying Nick would have preferred Patoa over Johnson, but I think it was understood that if Shane were to leave, that would be Brian Johnson's job. That was kind of the natural progression. If you recall, Patoa interviewed for OC jobs elsewhere, right? And he interviewed for the OC job here too, but they went with Brian Johnson.

And I think that because the thought, similar to how I described with Gannon, there was a thought, Brian Johnson's going to be an OC here or somewhere else. The Eagles did not want to lose Brian Johnson. Last year, they could not promote Patoa. It was very clear they had to go outside for a fresh voice. So I think your description of like the trust that Siriani would have in Patoa would be such that I don't think that he would put Patoa in that spot

and then usurp Patoa's control. Right. Personally, I think it would be such that I don't think. it would be like, I trust this guy to call plays. I trust this guy to run the offense. He's been here. He's worked in different systems. As I said last week on our show, he has pre-existing relationships.

Even before he got here with Jason Michael from Tennessee, with Aaron Moorhead from both Texas A&M and the Colts. So there's, Ann Patuo's done a lot behind the scenes too, that there's a lot of relationships he has on that staff. So my guess is they would sell it. I'm not saying, look behind the scenes everything's different but sell it as patua being empowered you know my frank rike um guess is what's that completely uninformed i feel like if frank

rick were to join the staff it's more likely to be as quarterbacks coach than anything else really because i feel like the the selling point for him is you know what i miss i miss just coaching i miss just like coaching like i'm tired of dealing with scheme stuff and calling plays i just want to get back to basics with the guys and if they need a quarterbacks coach how about just working with Jalen Hertz. Yeah, I actually think it would be, I see your point, and you hear that like Chip Kelly, the reason Chip Kelly said he left the UCLA job is he's like, I want to work with players. I don't want to do all the other stuff.

So I see your point there. You get to be a little bit more siloed. I actually think if, and I haven't heard anything about Frank Wright getting back. Like Frank Wright, Mike. Yeah, this is a completely expected. Frank Wright very well enjoy being, you know, just a retired coach or doing whatever he's doing. But I think that one thing that Nick might want is, or is someone who's like pushing back on you, someone who's like holding you accountable.

And I think one thing with Doug, the Eagles saw is that when there were defections in the staff, there wasn't anyone who was like pushing back on Doug, right? You know, when everyone who's on your staff is basically like beholden to you, now, as we've discussed, Kevin Patool is the guy pushing back right now. But Patool, if he's the O.C, he's not the assistant head coach anymore. Right. Now, I know Stalin's not. I mean, Stalin's his own, you know, his own island, if you will.

But no man is an island. No man is an island. You draw the strength from others. There you go. But I could see that senior offensive assistant as someone who's like here to push back on Nick. Whether that is someone else, whether that is. Frank Reich, that wouldn't surprise me in a staff refuffling. I would be curious about the quarterback's coach role

and who they would go with there. Because if you remember, too, real quick, Alex Tanney, Alex Tanee was someone who Nick coached in Kansas City, who Nick brought in here, like, that was the natural progression. And they don't really have anyone on staff right now who would be, like, that would be the natural progression for unless they were to like move Jason Michael over from tight ends coach to quarterback's coach.

Right. All right. A quick break on the other side will give you some more names to consider as the potential next Eagles offensive coordinator and find out if Zach's clothes still smell like cigar smoke. Hello Fresh! How we doing? Pretty good because I got all my meals accounted for. If you're tired of figuring out what's for dinner every night, especially on those busy

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or call 6109804,000 to get started. A couple super chats to check out from the good old fashion sickos. We've got stonks, Zach Berman, who says, Sicko's Insider Tip. Before Friday's parade, I'm issuing a strong buy advisory on sucking them back with your friends. Also, I'm taking PTO to be with Emily. Is that supposed to be, that's like a parody of me, right?

Correct. Okay, I was going to say, If the person putting that's doing it was evil, Zach Berman, and then he changed it to stunks, Zach Berman, something stock related stuff. You understand stocks. Okay. Yeah, I'm following you there. Okay.

Yeah, I don't think that's something I would write, but my plans for Friday will probably include taking my son to the parade and then trying to figure out some other things from there. But yeah, taking my son to the parade for sure. Daniel Plainview says the Siriani contract situation is interesting. He's done some good work the past four years, but does he really deserve Liam Cohen money? Yes. I brought this up, if you remember two weeks ago, where I was like, is Nick's going to look at what Liam Johnson,

at what Liam Cohen and Ben Johnson made? And he's like, wait, look at my record here. And then Adam Schaefter had a very conveniently timed report. I think he said the person with the most at stake. in the Super Bowl where he says he's coaching for a lot. He said he's coaching for the contract. Look, that's not put out there unless there's someone who wants that put out there that day.

So my answer to that question would be, as Jaylon Rose always says, you're worth what the market's willing to pay you, right? Like, what's someone worth? It's what the market's willing to pay you. So if this is the going rate for head coaches, then I do. This is a little different. This is not an open market. Yeah, but if Nick were to hit the open market, what do you think he would get?

Well, I don't know. But that's not a realistic threat. Every other team has a head coach. I think this is what the market price is now. And I think that's what. I don't think, I don't think that Jeffrey Lurr is going to, you know, niggle over money now that the guy just. That's that, yeah. So I think that certainly those prices help the market when, when first year coaches are getting that.

Nick has, as Adam said, Nick has been one of the lower paid coaches in the NFL and there's nothing that you can do from a leverage perspective better than winning the Super Bowl. And so the way I framed it to Shield, I do remember asking Shield this, is that if they lose and you're renegotiating the contract with Nick and you're saying, and this is what the price is,

and you're saying, well, is Nick really the secret here or is it, I think that's why I framed it, at the shield. And then I think it's pretty clear, as you just said, that Jeffrey Lurie is going to pay what it takes to keep Nick Seriani. Now, I don't think Nick Seriani has become the highest paid coach in the NFL or anything, but I think that he'll get paid market value for what he's been able to accomplish. Dean says, is it Bow Wolf or Wolf Robert? It is none of your business. Shea, what are y'all's thoughts on getting someone with DC experience and offensive assistant experience as our next OC? Sean DeSci.

perhaps or Maddie P. Is this like the reverse Juan Castile? I guess so. Yeah. And then Juan says not sure if this has been brought up. Speaking of one. But can we make sure the D.L. wears six sacks shirts since the chiefs made zero sacks shirts for their offensive line.

Let me ask you this. That's a good point. C.J. Garner Johnson brought back his, did you see the tweet that he had? Yeah. From two years ago where he said that had that game been played on real grass, the Eagles would have won. Do you, does the way the Eagles play in this make you rethink that game at all?

Yes, but not in the way that you're inferring. It's not me, CJ. No, C.J. is the way C.J. is inferring. I don't know that I think that that was the difference in that game. But, you know, obviously, if they had a more effective pass rush, it would have changed things more. But you could probably say the same thing about the other side of that game. We can get to, I was going to say this for our conversation about the game. But when we, when you and I had the postgame pod,

after that loss, my takeaway was like, defense doesn't matter. I remember that. And I was pushing back. Unless it's, but I believe what I said was, or what I meant was, like, unless you have the best defense in football or like a really difference making defense, that on the biggest stage against the best offenses, a good defense doesn't matter. Like great offense will always beat good defense. And this was an obvious testament to like that was a great defense.

a difference-making defense, and that's why the Eagles are Super Bowl champions. So far be it for me to, because I was the one who was saying defense matters, right? But that's actually not my read on this. My read is this shows the value of offensive line more than anything else. Is that the two years,

when the chiefs have been vulnerable on the offensive line, are the two Super Bowls that they've lost. Right? When they lost to Tampa Bay, Patrick Mahomes was under significant duress. When they lost to the Eagles, Patrick Mahomes was under significant duress. This is not a surprise to me. And I know Andy Reed and Brett Veach philosophically

view the same way to Howie Roseman does here where you build along the trenches. Kansas City replaced their entire offensive line after that Super Bowl that they lost to Tampa Bay. And I think that strikes me here as like the big takeaway. As we said going into the game, the Eagles are better on the line of scrimmage. That Chief's offensive line was overwhelmed.

You were to hell, man. And it was not by design this year, right? The chiefs spent money. They invested draft picks, but they have, they've had moves that just haven't worked on the offensive line. There's a reason why they had to move their left guard to left tackle in this game or like this season. There's a reason why, you know, their second round pick who they tried putting out there, it didn't work. Juan Taylor, who they paid a lot of money to has underachieved. So I, what strikes me, yeah, I do think, like, I don't think defense is insignificant.

I've been on record. I was pushing back with you that Super Bowl night. But my takeaway here is that if you don't have a good offensive line, it's going to so hinder your ability to have a good offense when it matters on a big stage. And like this was the best defensive performance I've seen in a Super Bowl since that Carolina, Denver game a few years ago. And I've heard references to the best defensive line performance since, the Giants back in 07 against the Patriots.

The thing is, I don't think, like, I think this Eagles defensive line is good. I don't think it's like the best defensive line I've ever seen them have, but they were so much better than the Chief's defensive line, and that was a chief's offensive line, and that was a major difference. Yeah, I thought Fran did a really good job

outlining just, like, the violence that they played with. Yeah. And you tell me who, if you remember who it was, I forget which story I saw it, that, like, in the lead up to the game, Clint Hurt with the defensive line was like, we're going to bullrush these guys. Like they are not ready for us.

And that was the game plan coming in. And that's what they did. And I mean, they were just like, it was like, they were just calling out their manhood because like it was just, we're going to line up and run right through you.

And they were doing it on every snap. I loved the, you know, that we talked about it a little bit, but that drive when they go sack, sack, pick six. What was so impressive about that drive was that was the first time

they rotated in like the backup defensive line. It was, it was Ajima and Jalix Hunt on the field. And Josh, sweating sides and like the Eagles back up defensive line. I thought this was a great example of just the talent disparity on these teams. You've got Joe Tooney who is like getting offensive player of the year votes from his cronies in the media because he was unbelievable enough to go from left guard to left

tackle and he's getting run over by the Eagles third defensive end, a rookie third round pick. Yeah, I mean who by the way, and we can get that because in some of my takeaways from this game the growth of J.OX Hunt yeah outstanding like what a pick that was and how how wrong was I to say like you know I I like the idea of maybe a receiver

there in the third round over a project you know defense alignment but we both did but man he is his growth has been awesome and those tools that the Eagles love have been apparent so great job there by the Eagles and government well mostly great job by Jalox Hunt

but yeah that That's a good point. Like the depth of that group, they're so well coached by Clint Hurd. I'm glad you mentioned Clint Hurd. And you and I were both standing there when Jordan Davis came off the field. And Jordan Davis said it didn't even need to be close or like, why didn't need to be close? And that was, I can say this with a degree of confidence here, that was the message internally to that defense. To that defense is like, why does this game even need to be a close game?

You guys are better than them. and that was never more apparent than the way the Eagles defensive line played against the offensive line. The fact that the Eagles didn't blitz and I heard Zach Bond talk about this after the game and actually there was a really good point made by JJ Watt on Twitter.

I think I saw that you can only not blitz if like your defensive line's that good and their defensive line was that good. All right, let's close the loop on the offensive coordinator conversation for a minute. Who are some other names who you think are worth paying attention to? Well, if you look at play calling experience, I mean, a year ago, Bobby Sloick was like the guy, you know, the hot coordinator. And he even got an interview with the Jets this year and the, and they moved on from him.

If you look at kind of quarterback coach promotion level, Bobby Slovak's quarterback coach last year, Gerard Johnson is someone who interviewed with the Eagles. Now, Houston didn't promote him the VDOC this year. Houston went with Nick Kelly, right, to replace Sloick. So you kind of, you might look at that, but he is someone with the Eagles have had their eyes on. We know from a GM and ownership level, the Eagles have great respect for Josh McCown. I think that's an important one. Yeah. So that's one to watch now.

If you're Kevin Petuo, I mean, Josh McCown doesn't have play calling experience, right? So you're getting usurped or you're getting picked. The whole thing with Kellan Moore last year is the proven OC experience. So those are some names off the top of my head. Well, I think that's an important question because do you think, given the way things went this year, that the Eagles are looking for a turnkey type offensive coordinator, someone who has experience calling players, or do you think they are willing to roll the dice with someone with a little bit more variance?

Good question. I think they're willing to roll the dice with a little more variance here. I think that it's not as much like a back-against-the-wall situation. It's also just the case that there are not as many of those guys available. Like Alex Van Pelt is probably the most turnkey guy who was the offensive coordinator for the Patriots last year and then the Browns before that but was fired by Kevin Stefansky. I think he's the only guy available unemployed who was an offensive coordinator

last year. Yeah, last year, yeah. I mean, Byron Leftwich is someone who has been a no C in the past. Yeah, that's interesting. He's been out of football the past two years. Mike Jones at the athletic had a good story recently about him wanting to get back in.

That's not true. Well, no, actually, go ahead. What? Not you. I was talking, I was correcting myself. I forgot about Ryan Grubb, but he was just announced off the Alabama. I got worried Mike Johnson

write that story. You're like, that's not true. I was like, well, God. Did I credit someone else's story? The Eagles can always, well, Here's so if you want like an under the radar name and this guy's play calling experience is not in the NFL but if they're talking about Nick Siriani's juice Nick Siriani's former college roommate Tom Manning is the tight ends coach with the Colts has been the OC in uh you know at iowa state and so it has play calling experience there if you're looking for like seriani connections had Tommy Reese not been the OC he I think he would have been someone who would have been under consideration um but again like I don't see if that would jump over Patul.

Now, do you think there's anyone internal, like, look, Jason Michael has Play Kong experience, right? He's the tight ends coach. Jeff Stoutland is as revered of a position coach as there is. In the league, Les Bowen spoke to him last week about potentially becoming an OC or having a higher position. It behooves me, by the way, that no team has interviewed Jeff Stoughton to be a head coach.

Yeah. I would at least, like, have that conversation. I don't know why. I mean, I think his leadership is, is clear, is football acumen's clear. I don't know if it's, you're looking for a certain type, but that's, that's besides the point. There are, you know, I do think it would,

yeah, I was about to use Behoove. I didn't want to use Behoove twice in a minute. It would benefit the Eagles to interview multiple people here. I know they're kind of, I know they're against the clock, combines in two weeks, free agencies in four weeks. but I'm always in favor of looking at the college ranks and I think there's I think a lot of creativity kinds of it kind of filters up as opposed to the filters down

and so I would I would interview some college OCs but I think if they're looking for I would think Kevin Petuo or someone who has OC experience would be a place to watch A couple more names for you yep on the college front we talked about them last time and the Eagles didn't interview them old friend G.J. Kinney. Yeah, I mean, he just got a big deal to stay at Texas State, but man, you know, J.J. Kinney's done a great job in the college ranks.

Nate Shieldhouse, who they interviewed a couple years ago, and then was considering the Jaguars O.C. job went back to the Rams as past game coordinator, but I believe he could still be hired away potentially. Yeah, I think the big difference here is that this would come with play calling. Right. Whereas with the Rant, or I'm sorry, with the Jags, Liams, Cohen's calling play. So that is a fundamental difference.

You're right. He is someone that they've had their eye on before. I'll also say Nick in recent weeks has really praised Sean McVeigh. And if you heard Sean McVeigh on the pregame show called Nick Siriani like the most underappreciated coach in the league. I think there's there's really growing mutual respect between those two. And perhaps Siriani has seen the, you know, he knew Shield House when Shield House was at Iowa State. perhaps he views these last two years working with McVeigh

as a benefit to Shieldhouse and it improves his kind of dizzycy. Packers past game coordinator Jason Vrable is a person on my mind. I don't know much about it. I'm trying to take from that tree. And then the last one is this would be the most turnkey take over the offensive side of the ball

and would be a very funny follow-up to Kellyn Moore Mike McCarthy. Yeah. I want to do that. That would be a very funny follow-up. That would be like that. I mean, that would be the most fan Gio higher. Yeah, I think of those names,

I think Shieldhouse is the most likely of those names. I think McCown is interesting because of the way he's held in high regard from Lori and Roseman. But Shieldhouse would be an option that I think would be easy for the Eagles to get behind if they're not interested in the Play-Cong experience. although he has played calling experience in college, right?

I believe so. Yeah. All right. Time for another break to hear from our sponsors and then more super chats and our thoughts on the game on the other side. Let's bet 365, huh? I know you're all raking in the money you made from the Super Bowl of Ben on the Eagles big.

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knowledge, developing treatment, and improving outcomes for the benefit of their patients. Rothman Orthopedics specializing in orthopedics and you visit Rothmanortho. Dot p.hieli to learn more and to make an appointment today. Some more Super Chats. Check them out. Alex says ZB. Is there a book I can read to learn more about the Eagles? Franchise?

Perhaps one written by the best reporter in the city. Well, Bo hasn't written a book yet. Well, importantly, it says reporter. Oh, okay. Not best writer? I'm just kidding. Or best host. Best host. I see what you're saying.

Yeah, I was trying to copy my bow there. Yeah, I'm sure. You can read the franchise, filled off the Eagles, curated history of the birds. I appreciate that. And then, who knows, maybe there'll be another book

written about the season that just happened. Oh, baby. We'll see. Say goodbye to sleep. Rob Miller. I never said hello to it. That was good, Zach. Okay.

It was good. I wonder what Tom Donahoe thought of Milton Williams Super Bowl. performance. Yeah, look. Honest question, do you think Howie

texted him after the game? No. Or, I mean, not about that. Look, I'll say this. I don't know. Ale McNeil is a really good player. I would be,

honestly, would not be surprised at all if Howie? In joking, when I was like, how about that Milton Williams performance? I think that is very much

within his wheelhouse. Yeah. I mean, look, I don't think Milton needed that performance to be validated. Milton's been a really good player. I said this before.

a phrase I'm trying to say less, but I also don't want to keep repeating myself with points. Milton Williams is going to be the player who in free agency fans, football fans in Kalamazoo and in Des Moines. The football fans in Kalamazoo get such a pop from you. They are so overrepresented based on the percentages they are. And Des Moines. Yeah.

Kalamazoo and Des Moines. There are no other like medium-sized cities from California to New York. as far as you're concerned. I just love saying Calamazoo and Des Moines. He's the player who football fans will be stunned. Like that guy made that because I do think Milton Williams is going to make huge money this offseason. The Super Bowl performance helps, but I thought that before the Super Bowl. You and I have talked about it.

He's also 25 years. Yeah. 26 in April. Yeah, you and I have talked about why the Eagles wouldn't extend him. and my answer's been because like it behooves him to hit the open market he's going to make a lot of you're laughing because I said behooves him he's he's going to make a lot of money I thought that going into the year nothing to happen this year disprove that and uh yeah I think Milton Williams is it's it's it's good to be Milton Williams right now buy Milton Williams stock if he can stunk Zach

Berman stunk Zach Berman speaking of stunk Zach Berman has a super chat he says burning super chat budget is Nolan's left arm okay it looked okay when he was uh splashing the champagne all around. We're all out of liquor. Yeah, yeah, I got sprayed by him in, he wasn't spraying me like out of friendliness. Like I don't think no one's like, hey, Zach, come here. But he was spraying it all. I don't know what. Listen, I saw Julia's eyes do the same thing minded when you said he wasn't spraying me out of friendliness. The two of you have the same sense of humor. Okay. He wasn't spraying the champagne like at me. He was just enjoying himself in and uh but he he looked healthy not to do that I'll put it that way let me just

quickly go through it because he did not play quite as many snaps as he had been playing so I want to just look at the first second third quarter snaps for for the defense because it did feel like like for instance sweat was was flipping sides which is usually a Nolan Smith thing when they're trying to you know round out that three-man rotation so the first three quarters of the game snap-wise of the 35 snaps Josh Sweat played 28 of them Nolan Smith played 20 of them Jelix Hunt played 17 and Brandon Graham played five so I think

there was something going on with Nolan Smith because usually he's the one player more snaps than sweat there clearly was but I don't think it's the type of look it's not meant to play next week you might have to worry about it exactly yeah yeah and then L8908 says where does Hertz fit in with the offensive coordinator search he's now a Super Bowl win in franchise quarterback good important question Zach. Yeah, I think Hurts has juice and he's not afraid to use it. I mean, that's the best way I would put it, is that Jowen, I think Jalen will be further emboldened

after this. And Jalen is very clearly, you know, there was a quote from Jeffrey Lurie after the game when I was speaking to him where he said Jalen was the least of his concerns going to the game. He said he went into the game thinking, he said he had no concern about Jalen. and he said he knew we have our quarterback. And to me, that's interesting because, like, if there was ever any suggestion that Jalen's just kind of like a part in this, I've always said his biggest fan is the owner,

and I still feel that way. So you think it would be who the eagles to ask him what he thinks? I don't think about the coordinator. I think that Jalen is going to want his voice heard on a lot this off season. Okay. Yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious. I mean, this is one where I'm sure we will maybe never find out exactly how this whole process works, but I am curious what they decide to do behind the scenes. All right, Zach, we got 10 minutes to talk about the Super Bowl.

We can go beyond. We're going to have, we've got more shows this week. We got the whole rest of the off season. We got a lot of time to talk about the Super Bowl. But give me like the things that are really bubbling to the top for you that you want to get off your chest. Yeah, the first thing, and I've referenced this is that he was wanting this game. believing they were the better team. And that jumped out to me leading up to the game. That jumped out to me in my sentiments at the game that jumped out to me after the game in talking to some players.

And look, the numbers back up why. I was just looking at the split. Since the bi-week, the Eagles are 16 and 1 plus 238 in point margin, plus 28 in turnover margin. Now, this includes the postseason. Those are historic numbers. Those are numbers that put them up against some of the great teams in NFL history. You know, the 2007 Patriots had like a plus 300 something point margin. But man, I mean, that is ridiculously impressive. And it just jumped out to me going into the game that the Eagles were, I said they were nobody's underdogs. Like they expected to do that. And it was very clear.

Obviously, I didn't expect 34 nothing. But I remember asking Jeffrey Lurie about like, could you in your wild of dreams have seen this? And his point was, well, they respect the chiefs quite a bit. But he's like, look what we did in the championship game. And that really stood with me because I think the Eagles viewed themselves as the heavy weights in this game. So if you include the playoffs, week one for the playoffs, since 2000, the Eagles point differential is seventh best. So you've got the 2007 Patriots who were way out in front. Then the 2001 Rams, who did not win.

the 2000 Ravens, the 2013 Seahawks, 2016 Patriots, the 2019 Ravens who did not, did they win? No. And then the 2024 Eagles. And did they have a negative point differential going into the buy, or? I think they did because of the Bucks game, right? Because the Bucks game, yeah. So think about, you know, yeah, so think about that. Yeah, I mean, I think it's hard to make a real case for like best team of all time best team of 2000 when you weren't even the one seat in your conference.

But like it is also true that they didn't lose a game all season long when Jalen Hertz and A.J. Brown finished the game. Right. And the only game they did lose after the by was when Jailen Hertz got hurt. Exactly. So I mean, I think I think they are I think it is a there's a difference between greatest and best best. Right. I think the the arc of their season is not one of the best of all time. But I think this team at this point of the season is as good of a team as I think like if they were to play a game tomorrow at their best or you know the team that that lines up in the game of the Super Bowl I think this team would have a chance against anybody if you did one of those uh you know fictional brackets where you where all the Super Bowl teams

were in there and you pick them like how they played in the Super Bowl the Eagles might win that yeah and they they played their best at the end of the season they're there I had this in the story today they're their point differential for just the last two games of the season the chance championship game in the Super Bowl, the third best of all time in NFL history, behind the 84 bears and the 89-9ers. So, like, you know, that's the conversation that you're talking about. I mean, they were, they were awesome. Yeah.

If you were one of those people complaining about them not practicing during the buy, I mean, enjoy your crow right now, right? Oh, enjoy all crow! Yours. Huh? Your floor now. Yeah, like, I thought we're going back and forth. No, not your crow.

No, no, I'm just, I don't even know what I was going to say. I'm just thinking about. We're coming up with our takeaways. Yeah, no, I know, but I had something else and now I can't remember it. Was it a joke or was it a? No, it was a thing. It was a thing. Little Miss run the ball.

Claire says, ZB, will you buy Sloan an Eagle Super Bowl Barbie? Of course, but it doesn't. I would buy her any Barbie. It doesn't need to be an Eagle Super Bowl one. But if she wants that, then sure. I bought her a pink shirt in New Orleans that said, somebody who loves you, I went to New Orleans and bought you this t-shirt.

What? What's so funny about that? It's funny because we were looking at the Super Bowl merchandise together, and you're like, I got to find a knockoff something because this is too expensive. And so you found the thing that is in every town you go to. But this one had New Orleans stuff on it. Sure.

Yeah. I did find knockoff stuff for read, but they didn't sell the knockoff stuff in youth sizes. Brutal. Yeah. Then I made an airport purchase and stuff the next day. Rookie move. Not a rookie move. I just was willing to pay.

Grace says unrelated Q, but always wondered when you're in the press box and the opposing team is getting blown out in the game. To the Chief's beat writers get to get to jack. or is it more professional? What is it like? Great coverage throughout the season. Thank you. Thank you, Grace, thank you. Yeah, I think everyone in the press box is kind of,

is, well, typically everyone is keyed in on their job. I would say aside from Commander's games, that's pretty much the case. They're keyed in on their job. So at that point, especially, I've been in those situations where, like the newspaper, you're doing, you're running store you have, if they win on the screen, if they lose on the screen. And so you're focused on doing the best story you can. Even at like places that don't have print papers but have something up at the buzzer,

you're focused on the if they win takeaway or if they lose takeaway. So that tends to be what you're focused on. Mikey says is the Super Bowl confetti for sale? Did Jeffrey scoop up some of his on the way off the field after the game? I mean, I'll tell you what. If it's for sale, Zach, you and I might have a little black market to take advantage of. I would never dare. go on chill bill the sickos can can't wait for the well no the sickos can wait for the book

get some sleep see b don't worry i will get sleep this when we had the meeting on saturday in nalins there was a literal sleep doctor there yes he told me to email him yeah so look i get it about the sleep i promise he gets it he's just not going to listen mr v i know mr v's watching right now mr v's very concerned i promise this is something that is something that is important to me and I'm going to focus on it. Yeah, it is important to me. We don't need to keep spending precious airtime on it. I mean, obviously we are going to.

Okay. I have some more Super Bowls to take it. Go ahead. No, no, I. Well, go ahead. Because if you have something, I don't know where I'm going to go next. Go ahead.

Well, I want to kind of get the behind the scenes from the locker room, from the party. Can I prompt you on that? If you want to. That's the prompt? Yeah. What do you remember? about the scene. Like what stood out? I thought, you know, I've seen national reporters put out there that this was a more raucous celebration than what they're used to seeing from a winning

locker room. I've covered two Eagles winning locker rooms. This one was more raucous than the one in 2018 for sure. This one was like a nightclub, right? I mean, this was, you know. It was more than a nightclub. I haven't been to a nightclub like that. I can say like I was trying to capture more scene than talk to people, but I couldn't hear anything in my recording. I don't know how these reporters are quoting verbatim here unless they were like writing it down in shorthand because I couldn't hear anything in my audio in my audio back. Now, shout out to John Clark, NBC Sports Philly.

They have some great microphones because they were able to, you know, get some of, of the audio, but I just heard music lyrics. I mean, that's, but the, the cigars, the, the drinks, I mean,

it, it, it was very clear like the, uh, I remember Malcolm Jenkins had a, a, a specific, um,

it was Johnny Walker. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's a good one, right? Yeah. That's joy.

He gives for sale approval. Yeah. He has specific Johnny Walker blue that he, he was saving for that. And he, and he took off the shelf. But it wasn't, there wasn't champagne sprayed.

in that locker room back in 2018, right? I think there was. Oh, there was? Yeah, I remember getting champagne on me in 2017. Well, not to this level. No, it was certainly not to the same level. I think a part of that was logistics. It was a much bigger locker room in Minneapolis.

And so, like, people were a little bit more sequestered with their groups. And then as you noted, like, there was their, Doug gave the post-game speech. This was a little bit, a little bit tighter. Yeah. I mean, there was like a natural dance floor or whatever it was. But yeah, it was more raucous. I wonder if part of that is this, like this was a slightly younger team. Hmm.

It could be that. Sure. I think it's also probably, I think one of the messages, whether it was implicit or explicit, was save the celebrate until the end. Like, we're not happy to be here team. And I've seen, I saw that anecdotally, but I also saw, Howie Roseman quoted. It might have been an Albert Breyer story in Sports Illustrated.

I apologize if I've read so many stories. Thanks for watching on Fast, by the way. Make sure that you check out the rest of the episode on all p.hly.com. But he said like in whichever story this was, I think it was Alberts. I hope I am citing it correctly. That two years ago, he said they were like tourists in Italy. They were all taking pictures everywhere. And he's like this year they were so locked in.

It was a business trip. That was the messaging all along. So I don't know if this was the case, but maybe the message was saved to celebrating for the Super Bowl. And even I thought the locker room after the championship game was a little bit more subdued than it was two years ago. Okay. That's interesting.

Yeah, I wasn't there. So take your word for it. At least, I mean, I recall asking Nick because I asked, so here's two things. I asked Nick two weeks ago when he walked in, what was on your mind. He said the next game. He's like, because we've already been here before, right?

So he kind of set the tone then. I asked him that same question the other day. And he's like on, well, yesterday morning. And he said, well, clearly not the next game. And he said his thought when he walked in there was like, this here is what we'll remember. You know, you have, he said you have footage of the game. You have pictures of the confetti falling.

He's like, but what will last is like embracing your teammates. in the locker room after the game. And it's probably similar to that Patuo hug you referenced in your story. Are you, how worried are you about the Eagles past defense given Xavier Worthy's big performance eight for 157 and two touchdowns? Yeah, not the least thing.

They got to fix this. I've seen, look, I haven't been on social media as much as I've been in the past. Is that, um, there's been some back and forth about like, like praise for Xavier Worthy's game. Like, I mean, come on. Yeah.

He had that... He was over. Yeah, he had that 50-yard touchdown. It was a nice play. It was a nice throw. But, like, yeah, what are we talking about? Yep. Yeah, the game was basically...

Was it 40 to 6? Yeah. Like, calm down. All right. We got a lot more to go. Are you wrapping this up? Yeah, I was going to wrap it up. I just wanted you to give a quick insight on the after party.

Oh. Well, yeah, I mean, it was cool. I don't know. Like, uh, I want people to read the story, but there's people, you know. Oh, I'm not going to talk about that. Read the story if you want to hear about the after party. The Eagles after party.

But you don't want to share? What do you want me to share? Anything you? No, read the story. Become a diehard. Okay. I'm not giving it away for free. I'll say this.

One thing that jumps out to me there is I lose sight of this sometimes. Lookin's free. Readin's going to cost you. Look, I'm in the locker room throughout the week. I'm talking to players, coaches, sometimes executives. I see the training staff, the equipment staff. I see the people who touch the football side of the building, right? I think when I'm at these events,

and in particular, like, that party, what jumps out to me is how meaningful this is to so many people in the organization. And I need to keep that in. perspective. Like I try to give a shout out a lot to people in the equipment staff and the training staff. And when I talk about some of the under the radar people in the organization, but there are two sides of that building. And the other side, the non-football side of the building, those people work their butts off

year round, right? Like everyone's different, but sometimes like not at the same, you know, the, it's not prioritized in some cases the same way as like the football side. but they work they work hard and for a lot of them like the reward is like you're part of this professional sports organization

that you see them get to the Super Bowl and you get to experience these it's like this perk of the job and I think there's a lot of pride in that building for this organization and kind of the role that they have in this market so when there's something like that that's what really resonated

to me there is different people in there who felt the joy of victory even though their fingerprints are not on the ball or on the players they felt the joy of that winning I think that's beautifully said absolutely some of them have some really good dance moves too

I mean I just seeing everybody on the dance door is very impressive yeah yeah everybody everybody there and like also all of their families like this is the whole this is the whole reason you go to every day. Yes, exactly. Was to get that moment, right? And you sacrifice time away and all that stuff. Like, that's what it's all about. And so like, you just, you feel so happy for them. Yeah. And look,

you know, we have to talk about the team every day. Like they're, they're selling the team every day, you know, and it's, it's much, I don't want to say much better to do the job for them. But, you know, I think morale in a workplace, in a football office is often dictated by the wins and losses of a team. too. And I imagine that, you know, this is probably a better place to work this week than it would be this time a year ago. All right. We've got a lot more to come. We'll be with you tomorrow and Thursday. And we're still trying to figure out exactly what we're going to do for the parade on Friday. Because, you know, our show is usually at 2 o'clock, but that's when the ceremony is supposed to be. So how can we work that out? We'll figure all that out as the week goes on. but you can rest assured we'll be back tomorrow at 2 o'clock.

So for Zach Berman and Julia and all of us here at PHOI, we thank you for watching. Make sure that you check out the All-City Store, become a diehard, like the video, subscribe, all that goes up. Subscriber numbers are going through the roof, so make sure you join, you know? And, you know, have a good day.

How could you not have a good day after the Eagles win the Super Bowl? We'll talk to tomorrow, and as always, we love you. All silly like the mayor.