PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - As Philadelphia Eagles prep for Bengals showdown, A.J. Brown & DeVonta Smith loom large

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

Joe Burrow? More like Blow Burrow, am I right? Nick Sirianni’s 4-2 Eagles have put the final touches on their preparation for a trip to Cincinnati against Burrow (Burr-blow?), Ja’Marr Chase, Tee Higgins, Trey Hendrickson, Andrei Iosivas and crew. Are we due for another Jalen Carter dominant game? How will Darius Slay, Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean hold up? Is Tyler Steen set to start at right guard?The professor Deniz Selman joins Bo Wulf for his thoughts on the matchup before Zach Berman joins live from NovaCare as we the PHLY crew put the finishing touches on our own week of preparation. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast, a little remote one for you on a Friday afternoon, Bo Wolf and the Professor. Dane is Selman here, ready to go. As Zach will join us in a little bit from the Novacare Complex. We are 48 hours away. Well, I guess 47 hours away. From a big game for the Eagles against the Cincinnati Bengals, we are mere hours away from Zach's big speech tonight at Nick Berman's rehearsal dinner. But until then, we welcome on the professor. How you doing, Danis? I'm doing well. I had to give a wedding speech in the spring in L.A. And it is a terrifying thing, even though I'm used to speaking.

Whose wedding was that? I was very nervous. It was my buddy Dave from high school and his now wife, Shannon, who we've also been friends with for many years. Are you still hearing the music? It was a beautiful wedding. In your ears? I am, yeah.

I was, yeah, I wasn't sure if it was just like mood music. Yeah, okay. Thank you. I wasn't sure if the audience was getting it, so I wasn't going to get. I was frantically checking other tabs to see if I had the show up in one of those tabs, but I did not, and now it's gone. So bang up job. Here we go. Your speech was good or not? Did you get into the weeds and the analytics of how they met and, like, the series conversion rate of their dinners?

A little bit, little bit. No, no numbers, but I definitely talked about some early failures in the recording process and things like that. But yeah, no, it was, it was, it had, you know, it was received very well. I don't know how much of that was people being nice to me. But, but I, but I, I had a lot of fun at that wedding after the speech was over. You know what I mean? Like, it was just, it's just like a kind of. Oh, yeah, really? Yeah, for sure. To have to do. Yeah. No doubt about it. All right. Let's get to, let's get to the matter at hand. And Eagles Bengals, we heard from Nick Siriani today. We'll hear from Zach in a little bit to tell us about the practice and the locker room.

But for now, let's start with the Eagles offense. And you are, you know, we're always looking for things that. It seemed like Nick Siriani, seemed like, seemed like Nick Siriani was going the way of the Washington Post with not wanting to address. I'm going to ask Zach that when he comes on in a little bit. It seems to me that Jeff Bezos has taken some advice from his old friend, Zach Berman. We'll ask him about that in a bit. I'm sure we're always looking for things that are in depth.

Yes, exactly. We're always looking for things that are annoying you. You know, that makes for good content. We get Dana is ramped up. The concept of, is this a running team, something that is a little bit on your mind? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I thought it was interesting after the Cleveland game to talk about how the Eagles

were so run heavy early in the game, even though, you know, Jim Schwartz, like, famously tries to take away the run. And also it was the first game with, like, AJ and Duante back. Like, it seems kind of strange that they had gone that way. And now it's been two games in a row of a similar pattern. And it's, I totally understand why people are asking the question, like, is this a running team? Like, is this, you know, some sort of reversion to 2021 when, you know,

after the first four or five games, you know, like, you know, Nick stopped calling plays and they tore up the passing game playbook and they you know Jonathan Gannon Oh yeah again and Gannon was behind the whole thing I think Gannon was actually calling all the plays you know yeah but uh yeah no look I mean I understand why that's being asked and nothing is more exciting to like the WIP audience than like a you know run the ball conversation obviously right so so I get it but I think the way the discussion evolves typically annoys me Like, like, you know, because it doesn't seem to get off of treating the run game and the past game as being substitutes that you have to pit against each other. And, you know, I think Nick probably regrets saying damn right when John Ritchie asked him if this was a running football team.

I think Nick, like, Nick does those WIP hits with, with Ritchie in the mornings every week. And he seems to like, he, like, he knows who John Ritchie is. And you like your audience. He's like, we're doing fullback football now with Mansumer and everything, right? Like, so I think he was kind of in that mode when Richie asked him, are we running football team? And he said, damn, right? You know, like any, and he seemed to, you know, go back on that in his Wednesday presser.

Look, right now the run game is good. And it's very versatile and there's really interesting runs. And one run is setting up another. And they're doing different runs out of the same formation, which you'd be shocked at how few teams do that, by the way. like how many teams, like when I'm watching the film of an Eagles game or of like the opponent's film like the week before they play the Eagles, how many times you can predict what the run is going to be from the formation? And the Eagles have done a great job this year of having

different runs out of the same formation, setting up one run with another, you know, having a different element where, you know, a different person pulls or goes in the other direction or Ben Van Bensumer and blocks somebody else or whatever, Fran had some good breakdowns of those. The run game has been versatile, interesting. and successful, right? So, and the Eagles are four, four,

an EPA per rush, and, you know, et cetera. But yeah, no, go ahead. To your eye, has it been different

in terms of its varied nature than in years past? Interesting question. I feel like in years past there have been games here and there where they clearly saw something against the specific defense

and decided to just go with that a lot. And, you know, for, example with the Giants a few years ago, there was a game where they ran like counter reed like seven times. You know what I mean? Like they would, they don't usually run gap scheme runs like that many times in the game. They were going with like the bash counter read with the quarterback. You know, the pullers blocking for the quarterback and the running back going in the other direction and everything. There have been games where they took things that they don't

normally do, sprinkled them in and had them be interesting. There were also a lot of games where they did like wham trap and things like that, which they haven't done this year. So it's not like they've even gone into the whole, you know, toolbox from before. But there are new things this year, which I would assume has something to do with the new OC. I mean, obviously, I would love to hear somebody ask Ellen Moore about this. I know there were a lot of questions asking this week. But, you know, I was talking to Zach before that presser, and I was like, I would love to

know if the way the run game is being designed right now, like what the process is. Not that I think Ellen Moore would tell you, but, you know, how much of it is coming from Stoutland, how much of it is coming from, you know, like, like, Kellan Moore and, like, the way they're talking to each other and how those plays are called during the game as well, you know what I mean? Like, is it, like, how much of it say does Stoutland have, like, during the game and, like, which run is called and things like that? Because I think the way they've sequenced the run calls has been really cool. You know, like, they had Ben Van Suman running that zone Bob run where he's blocking the off ball linebacker. And then, like,

on the very nice play, they run something out of a similar formation where he's instead, blocking the defensive end and it's it's just like a split zone run you know like stuff like that is really cool to see and I think that some of the sequencing has been more clever than in past years by the way De Nis great breakdown and all of it the whole kitten caboodle brought to you by the good folks at bet 365 where it's never ordinary download the bet 365 app and use code p hl y 365 when you sign up whatever the moment it's never ordinary at bet three six We also have a super chat from Rob Milner, who says, is the skeleton key to this offense unlocking Devante Smith slot freak?

He is the solution for the layup throws ZB is asking for. And of course, this is a pet topic of mine, the idea of using Devante Smith in the slot to a larger extent. I will tell you, I have it pulled up here. The percentage of times that Devante Smith, is lining up in the slot when they are in 11 personnel. And this is one where we saw it decreased from the beginning of the season. Week one, he was at 71%, 50% week two, down to 31% in week three when they were without

AJ Brown. But the last two weeks, it has been very high. In week six, 96% of the time they were in 11 personnel. Devante was in the slot. And then last week, 71%. So it's not just as easy as putting him there. They got to actually utilize him there. Yeah, and I mean, it makes sense that it's high with AJ Brown back because, I mean,

Jahan Dotson seems to have been brought in here to do nothing. I mean, like, like, he's running like absolute nothing routes in this offense. I mean, like, when you watch the film, he's like, he's always running the clear route. He's always running the route that, you know, like the nothing route on the backside of the play where you know it's not going. I mean, like, I have no idea what he's doing as part of this offense. And I keep going back to that moment when Siriani said, Jehan, we're glad you're here. We're going to figure out your role as we go.

Everybody's role. John, we're glad you're here. You've forgotten to figure it out. I mean, like, they just never figure out. And they're just having him just run out there to run off one of the corners. And then, you know, all the action is happening in the rest of the field. So it makes sense that DeMonte is in the slot. But I would love to see some more inspired plays called for him, for sure.

And we'll get to that when we talked about third and long a little bit later. Another super chat from Chase Daniel Plainview, who says Malcolm Gladwell, Well, Zach's boy posits that spending 10,000 hours that something can lead to improvement. Can Jalen Hertz spend 10,000 hours throwing the ball over the middle of the field? Did you see the game last night? Rams Vikings?

Watch most of it. Most of it. Yeah, okay. I watched it on, I just watched it on condensed this morning, especially when you watch on condensed to get a better sense of like the kind of pattern the game is taking. The amount of under center play action passes to the middle of the field, like both teams.

really just makes it look like a different sport sometimes. You know, like, like how many balls are being caught, like literally between the hashes, by wide receivers, running, you know, digs, you know, ball routes, like overs, whatever it is when the zone defense is being manipulated by the play action. Like it just happens over and over and over again. And you're just thinking like, man, like, that would be such a cool thing to have as be part of the offense. You pause the film on so many Eagles dropback plays.

and it's not that Jalen isn't throwing the ball there. There's often nobody there. I mean, there's, there's, you know, half-field concepts to both sides that are trying to work outside the hatches, and there's nothing even happening in the middle of the field. It's just completely empty. And it just seems like you're making it so much harder for yourself. And for a team that has been so good at running it, it's just crazy. And I never quite got finished my thought about why I'm annoyed by the narrative thing.

it's not like the run game is good and the past game is uninspired by itself that's annoying me because that's true right i think the reason we're having this is this a running team question in the first place again pitting them against each other like their substitutes you know this is like the classic econ 101 example where it's like hamburgers or hot dogs right like they you know they're considered substitutes and that's almost been like what the question has been right this week it's like, which one are we? Like, which one are we going to do? Like, which one's better to do?

But the reason we're asking that is because the offense has been so bad at having one help the other that we're not even thinking of them as compliments, right? We're not even thinking of them as like, like, you wouldn't ask, like, do you want the hamburger or do you want the hamburger bun, right? Like, you know they go together. And there are so many of these, like, successful offenses in the league that complement the run with the pass through play action and through RPO's and other things like that. and we've talked all year about the different chapters of the playbook.

You've mentioned the Frankenstein of the coaching staff. And I think this is the biggest picture way that it's manifested in that you have this very interesting run game that somebody designed and it looks very good. But the past game has looked stale. And the way to fix the past game, the number one way to fix it, I think, the two important ways to fix it are to use more play action, use RPO. They've used RPO's a lot less,

the last couple of weeks as well. Use RPO's in a way that lets it benefit from the, let's like the past game benefit from the run game and vice versa. The pure draft back concepts need to be better as well. I mean, there's too much talent on this team to have nobody open against man coverage on third and long, which happened multiple times. I mean, the first three giant sacks were all man coverage,

we're all cover one, and nobody was open. And it's because they're all running isolated routes. and they didn't have that much time. I mean, the protection wasn't great, but they're all running isolated routes, which aren't getting open against breast man. It's like, do something. You can't just have that mesh play and nothing else as a man beater.

Otherwise, things are going to continue to do that against you, especially when the quarterback can't read mesh very well. So, yeah. Shots fired. Do you think that is this one where, again, you have seen it change since the beginning of the season? Because it certainly seemed like the routes were a little bit more varied, early on. Or maybe the Brazil game was a fever dream.

I went back and I looked at my charting of the Brazil game and I watched a couple of the plays and there were more interesting plays for sure. I mean, there were more concepts where there was an overcoming from one side, two posts and a wheel, you know, things like that. That's Sequin touchdown in Brazil. They haven't run that play since then. Isn't that wild? They ran that play like 10 times in training camp. It's on that side, a wheel and then like the tight end coming from the other side. It's like a very, it should be like a staple play in any offense, really. But it's a play that uses the whole field, gives the quarterback multiple options in the same line of sight. And we haven't seen it since then, even though that one was a

touchdown. They seem to have very specific situations in which they call things. Jalyn stomps off the field after throwing that touchdown pass. Like, I hate this play. Never, never call this again. I don't know what it is. I mean, I thought it was interesting that DeVante Smith, I think it might have been the last week in the locker room talking about how you can't call certain plays against certain coverages, which I understand that. But he was saying it in this way where he was almost like, you'd almost been like indoctrinated into this thinking like, if you know what's cover four, you can't run this play against it or whatever. It almost feels like, I'm curious how prevalent that philosophy is around the league. You know, it would be a good question for Fran as well,

just watching more teams, like whether teams try to exert their identity more on offense than the Eagles do. You know what I mean? Like the Eagles are thinking about what the defense is doing, like giving them what the defense does. And if the defense is running certain coverages to take away certain kinds of plays, they just kind of throw away those plays. And it makes you sort of like, yeah, it sounds like like behavioral psychology of like you watch too much news and there's like, oh, well, if I get in the car, I might get an accident. If I go to the store, you know, this might happen. And all of a sudden, you just stay home all day long because you're terrified of everything.

No, that's right. And also, like, it's not like there are defenses that you shouldn't run, like, misdirection against. You know what I mean? Or, like, play action against. Like, the whole point is you're trying to confuse them with something you're doing. And five isolated routes on third and 10, where AJ Brown is, like, getting jammed at the line and the play is immediately over is not, it doesn't seem like a call against, that you should be running against any, against any defense, right? And so that's the thing that I'm not exactly sure why there isn't, there aren't more stacks, there aren't more bunches, you know, like there aren't more kind of subtle pick plays other than

just that mesh play, right? And when it comes to that mesh play, by the way, like, that's going to become predictable at some point, right? Like you talk about these situations where you're watching the game and you're looking for what's next. And I noticed like those first three sacks were all man coverage. And then on the next one, I was like, just watching the game live on TV. Like, this is just me at home,

watching the game. And I was thinking, man, they're definitely going to run the mesh play here. Right? Like, because, like, they've been getting man coverage

in these situations. They're going to run the mesh play here. Sure enough, they run the mesh play. Not just on that play, but they're in a two times in a row, right? And on the first one, Jalen hit Calcutera for five yards,

but he didn't even get the first down because he hit him so late. Like, he hit him, he was outside the numbers by the time he caught it. And he was just like staring it down, it down, staring it down. Like, he had beaten the safety.

And AJ Brown picked the safety on top of that. He was clearly open. And Jalen just waited, waited, waited, and he hit him outside the numbers. And I was like, that was weird. Like, you almost never see the guy catch the ball outside the numbers when he's running one of those mesh crossers. And it was technically a completion. What was it?

It was second and eight and it got five yards. Okay, fine. Very next play, they run it again. And that's the one that, you know, everyone's talking about where he reads Kenny Gingwell's wheel first. He doesn't hit Devante. even though DeMonte is in the same exact line of sight. And then the next play is the fourth and three bomb to bomb DeJ.

And then, of course, there's the one later where he doesn't hit Sequin because he's reading the other. I mean, just like that play, we've seen, you know, Nick Foles have success with that play, Sam Bradford, like Mark Sanchez. Like, like, I just don't remember a game where the quarterback had trouble reading that play three times in one half in three different ways. And it's a little disturbing that that happened. And it's also, because it's not like they covered it well either. But I also think the teams are going to start covering it better because if it's your only man beater, teams are going to work on it.

And you're going to have to come up with something else. I mean, it's just a little bit weird that that's the only man beating play that seems interesting in this offense other than A.J. Go get it, you know. Right. Let's dial up a one-on-one. Why not? I don't know. I mean, it seems like it seems like it seems.

seems like an offense that is stripping things down to like the barest necessities. And I don't know why that is the case. It worked in this last game. That's fine. Maybe it was just a like a shot across the bow of the Giants. Like they can't stop us. And we can save some stuff for later. But it doesn't it didn't feel like that.

No, because it wasn't just that game. Right. It's a pattern now. And you say bearish necessities. you say like let's be old school or whatever like no one's more old school than Seth Joyner right and Seth Joyner was talking on WIP the other day and he was like this has to be a run first team he's always going to say that but he was like this has to be a run first team and then run play action off of it because the drop back passing game isn't

working for whatever reason and like I don't normally agree with like things South Joiner says about you know tactics and things like that because he's very like anti anti-analytics and anti-whatever. But my first thought was like, it is a run-first team, right? Like, this team runs the ball on first down at the second highest rate of any team in the league right now. The fourth highest rate when you do the like

controlling for neutral game situations on early downs. So by any measure, this team like runs the ball a lot, right? But they simply haven't run play action off of it. I mean, they're 24th overall at running play action total. And when you look at the sequencing, a lot of those play action calls aren't really coming off of runs that they actually do. A lot of the play action runs are runs that they've never done. They'll run like a tight end insert action and throw off of that and stuff like that.

They've never actually run that run play. Like I feel like the marriage, I know you're like talking about marriage, like the marriage of the runs to the play action haven't even been that interesting. And then the play action we have seen are typically isolating somebody on the outside. Like the very first play of the game was under center play action. It's almost like they were like, let's make sure we run under center play. play action in this game. They isolate AJ Brown. It was a it was a seven man protection with two stop routes on the outside. They were both open. DeWante and AJ were both open. But like that

play also, which also for the record put to rest the the idea that all they need is one first down and then they can just get going. Oh, and then it gets going. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, that was that did double the number of first downs they have the season on opening drives. So, so there is that. So if they can double it every week from now on. Now we're talking. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they're going to get, you know, like like a hundred and twenty eight first downs on the first drive in a few weeks, which will be interesting. A lot of that would require a lot of pass interference in the end zone. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

When you look at the teams that have run a lot and also run a lot of play action, it's some of the best offenses in the league. It's like Detroit, you got Washington, you have Baltimore. Like they're all in. I tweeted a graph this week of. you know, like how much teams run it on early downs versus how much play action they use when they ultimately pass it. And the Eagles are in the like bottom left of that graph, which means that they, or whatever, like, I don't remember exactly which way it was ordered. But like the Eagles are like one of the only teams that like runs it a lot but doesn't run play action off of it. The teams that run it a lot and run play action off of it are having a lot of success that way.

And it's just kind of frustrating to see that that just hasn't happened. All right. AJ did say after the game, and this is my one hope. He said right after the game that they were trying to set up play action off of the run, but Sequin was running it so well that they never got to it. So that's my one hope that that actually happens. We have more to talk about here in just a minute after a word from our sponsors. What time is it?

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Again, create an account and redeem with code P-H-L-Y. for $20 off. Download game time today. What time is it? It's game time. And it's also that time a year to get your flu shot. And you should do it at Rite Aid. Don't miss the big game or Halloween or Thanksgiving because you got the flu. Get a flu shot at Rite Aid. And while you're there, get the latest COVID-19 vaccine as well. And stay up to date on your shots. Shots, explosives. Jonathan Gannon might say. You can even ask your pharmacist for a vaccine review or recommendations. According to the CDC, flu vaccination may reduce a child's risk of severe life-threatening influenza by 75%. Help protect your family by getting flu shots at Rite Aid today and the families of everybody around you.

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Who says details. I feel like that's the thing that some people do. Details. How about divisive or divisive? I say divisive. Yeah, I think in my mind, I would say divisive. But when I mentioned, I said that word out loud to Nick Siriani today during the press conference. And I said divisive.

And I don't know, I don't know why I did that. Oh, interesting, divisive, yeah. Yeah. And you also, what did you say the other day? You said, do you enjoy playing? What did you? What did the transcript say you said? I didn't say that.

How did Jalen enjoy calling protections? Enjoy calling protections. Yeah. Emily and I were in an airport once and we had two hours or three hours or something until our flight. And the airport food options were just garbage. Like I don't even remember where this was. I got the worst sandwiches I've ever had yesterday. Go ahead.

That's the worst. Wasted meals are the worst. Life is too short. You know, like, like I take a lot of pride in caring a lot about what I eat and like whether, you know, like not. I'm not talking about it being healthy or anything, as you can probably tell, but just to being good. I mean, like, I want my meals to be good. And it's crazy to me when people are just like, oh, I'll just grab whatever, you know,

garbage they have right here is like, I mean, you got to try a little harder than that. And anyway, this guy, I think we were in Miami or something. We were flying back from Cuba. I don't even remember what it was. But the guy was like, so we asked, like, is there anything close, close enough to the airport that we can, like, walk there and eat and then come back in time? and the guy goes, there's a Chili's. And then he like paused.

And then he goes, do you enjoy chilies? So when you're talking about like when, so when you said like this deal and enjoy, I know you didn't say it. But when you're talking about this deal and enjoy coverage is like, all I can think of was like, like, do you enjoy? That's why. That's why I can only think of the newscast. There's a, there's a, there's a coffee shop on my way to, uh, to the office that it's

Fine coffee, you know, solid latte. And they've got like okay pastries. And I've, I pop in there every now and then. It's in a bit of a rush yesterday. They've got pre-made sandwiches. And I know that I'm not going to like a pre-made sandwich. But they've got, you know, it's the sticker that it was made today. It's made Thursday.

It's like a chicken, mozzarella pesto thing. Like, okay, like, this should be safe at least. And it was, and they put it on the panini press thing. And it was so bad. The chicken was like, like, I had to spit some of it out. It was grisly. It was like, what? What a, what a waste.

And it was like $16. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a thing. Everything's $16 now. That's another reason that you should look for something that's good, right? It's not like there are cheap options anymore. Yeah. Yeah. That's bad.

Awful. All right. You have another pet peeve. And that is the, and I'm on the fence about whether I should save this for Zach, but I feel like he's going to get flagellated enough on this show. So let's let's let's let's let. Let's save that one for Zach, actually. You're going to save this one for Zach?

Zach and I have this is like long running debate about how much third down matters. Okay. I think that I think an argument could be made. So this will be a tease for when he's on the show that third down might be the least important down in football. And people talk about it like it's the most important. And it really annoys me. Well, it's the results. I don't.

Yeah. I'm not sure I believe it's the least important either. But like I think a better argument could be made that it's the most important. the least important than the most important. So, yeah, let's save that money down. All right. Let's talk about the Bengals defense. Well, yeah, so the Bengals defense, like one thing that we've seen, like, in terms of, like, you know, do you want to run it, do you want to pass it?

Remember that 2021 playoff game in Tampa Bay when they did everything they could to take away the Eagles run game and the past game just wasn't enough to make up for it. At some point, Sequin's going to stop having like 55-yard runs every day. game, right? Like, you can't bank on your explosive to all come from A.J. Go Balls and Sequan, you know, pulling off a long run. Teams will take away the run if you become a true run team, right? Like Cleveland showed us that, you know, they'll take away the run even when you haven't really shown that. That was two weeks ago. I'm very curious in this particular game if Luan Arumo will match the Eagles 12 personnel with his 5-2 base defense on early downs in this game against Cleveland last week they did on some series and not on others. Cleveland was

running a lot of like 12, 13. They'll bring on an extra D tackle and run like a 5-2-4 sometimes and sometimes they won't. And I think one of the things that will possibly dictate if this is going to be like a run first game for the Eagles or not is how Cleveland matches that. So we'll see what that is. And we know this staff is obsessed with seeing how the defense matches things and calling the rest of the game accordingly. So I'm sure that's going to be one of the first things. I wouldn't be surprised if the very first play of the game is 12 personnel to see how they're going to match the 12 to 12 personnel.

And just got a text from Fran reminding us that when Siriani got hired, he says a big part of what he said was how multiple he wanted to be on offense and how he wanted to adapt the game plan each week and that that was the identity of the offense. So it's very interesting, right? Like that that's like something the head coach thinks is a philosophy that you should adapt to the defenses you're playing. in theory, yes. Well, it's just interesting.

I mean, we've seen Bill Belichick be, like, very successful with his defenses that way, right? Like adapting based on the offense. But that makes a little more sense because the offense is the one that dictates the way the play at least starts, right? So it's interesting to think about that on offense to be like a reactor as opposed to the one who, you know, determines the way the thing goes. Okay. Anything else on that side of the ball? You want to talk Eagles defense? We can talk Eagles defense.

I mean, like, we've talked enough now about the starts of games that it's just gotten ridiculous, but the Eagles continue to be the absolute worst offense in like the history of football on the first two drives. And really good else, you know, other than said we're searching for answers and all that. But that was the only thing I had left on that side. And, you know, one thing about Cincinnati, their heavy zone on early downs, but they actually are pretty heavy man on late downs. So they're 18th in the league in man coverage overall, but they're ninth on late downs.

And so those man beaters, if we're going to see them, this week will probably be more on late downs than early downs against Cincinnati. And they drop eight a lot is the other thing that I want to mention. That's why it was one of my swoopers yesterday. Remember, Brian Flores dropped eight a lot against the Eagles last year. Eagles had a lot of trouble with it in that game. And then other teams tried it a few times. and, you know, Jalen beat it with his legs a couple of times.

He was able to find guys a couple of times. It'll be interesting to see how much they drop eight against the Eagles. One of the main reasons they drop eight is to take away those throws in the middle of the field, which the Eagles don't make anyway. So interesting to see if they even do it. Yeah, that's it. Well, good news is we don't have to move just yet because we have the man himself live from the Novacare Complex, be vested, as always.

off. Zachary, Bacary. Wow. Okay. Hold on. Let's see how far this goes. Keep going. Take some other stuff off.

No, no, no. No, no. That's it, Bill. Professor Shalman, great to see you. What's the word, Zach? What's the scoop? What's the vibe? Had a good locker room period.

Yeah, good locker room period. This was, I was glad I stayed the whole time because there was one guy who I hadn't spoken to this week, who I really wanted to speak with. well, I want to be all those guys. No, I chat with DeVante Smith. I spoke to DeVante earlier in this locker room period, but no, somebody else.

Seyuan Parkley. Seekwon Parkley. Yeah. So I had a chance to catch up with Sequon. And there was a specific question that I, you know, I was curious. I wanted to know if the success that him and Derek Henry are having makes him feel like,

you know, is going to change the perception of, or not even change the perception, change the actions of free agent running backs and the way teams view veteran running backs. And fortunately, this is a topic that Saquan was happy to discuss. Got a lot of good insight. I think he was on the Pivot podcast this week. I don't know if it's come out yet or not, but he talked about this on that show. And so he said a point that has kind of been made by others.

He says he doesn't like to pocket watch. But there are a lot of play. players and other positions making a lot more money than our running backs. And he's like, Derek Henry is a lot more valuable to his team than those guys are to theirs, right? And he didn't want to make it about him. He wanted to make it more about Derek Henry. But, you know, and he came armed with like rebuttals.

You know, I said there's a perception that at that position, you can draft a guy in, you know, on day two, day three, have him on a rookie deal and, you know, get good value at that position. and he said, why don't people make that point about Brock Purdy? Now, I mean, I think the data shows that first round, you know, top quarterbacks are probably more successful than, or there's more middle round draft pick running backs who are going to have success. But his point was that you can kind of pick and choose at all these positions.

Running back kind of gets targeted. And he said that there's kind of, there's the stat that's always used about, like the leading rushers on Super Bowl teams. He's in the last 20 years. He's like, look how many teams have won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years. Like Patrick Mahomes is a great play. You know, it's a special play, right? But, you know, there haven't been that many teams during this period that have won Super Bowl.

So that kind of colors that stack. But, yeah, he didn't make it about him. He made it more about the way Derek Henry is playing. But he says he does hope that this, that the way GMs and, you know, numbers, guys and owners view this. changes over the years. I'm based on the success this year. For the audio listeners, it was, it was an, that would have been an interesting experience to watch because as Zach was talking, like, sort of staccato, Danes and I were just

both going side to side with our heads like, yeah. Okay. Okay. Exactly. I guess. Exactly the same. So caught up with Sequin. Sequin should know better than anybody else, how you sayquon, how you the good running back is when he's not surrounded with the right guys, right? Like, I mean, like, Sequin was good before he got here, and his team sucked, right? And I think, like, the idea is that, like, the delta between the, like, I don't know, 80th percentile running back and the 40th percentile running back isn't big enough to justify paying a lot for the 80th percentile one.

There might be two or three that are worth paying for. But even those guys, like Saguang, you have to other guys around them first. and that's why there aren't that many teams that should pay a lot for a running back. And the Eagles are a team that should because the offensive line is good enough and everything else around it is good enough. But even the Eagles, like at this point, like, you know, they didn't pay that much for Seguan, right? So I don't know. I just don't, I don't see this, like, big change.

If there is a big change in the market, if there's a big change in the market because Derek Henry and Sequin Barclay are good this year, it's going to be a mistake. you know what I mean? Like there might be a big change, but it'll be a mistake. Yeah. So I was trying to have a debate with him. Yeah. I was trying to be fair. I'm very quickly. Just like Sequin should be as aware of that as anybody. He should also, he is also as privy to this side of that argument as anybody because he's been going through contract negotiations for why he should get paid like three years in a row. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I wasn't trying to get in the end of the debate. I wanted his perspective.

and I appreciate the fact that it was a question. He was happy to entertain as well as the follow-ups. Spoke to Devante Smith, spoke to Fred Johnson, spoke to Tyler Steen. So it was a productive Friday. And now I'm happy to speak to you guys, or with you guys, rather. And do you have any news on the injury front, Zach? Are we fully expecting Tyler Steen to get the start at Red Guard?

Yeah, so Mike Beckham was not at practice today. And so if you just look at it from the concussion protocol, and again, I understand it's, I suppose, possible to get cleared. But we saw in the Lane Johnson case, if you don't have that contact practice, it does affect you. I mean, Mackay has not even been at practice. So, yeah, I'm expecting Tyler Steen to be the starting right guard. And, you know, Tyler Steen said he's in a much better, you know, he's much more prepared for this than he was a year ago. when, which was the last time he started. I asked comparisons to the last year in the comparisons to the past two times when he's went in midstream.

And, you know, he talked about getting the volume of reps during the week that he's been able to get this week as, as beneficial. All right. And then. And then, and then Dallas Goddard did not react to either. Yeah. Our timing's a little bit out of sync today. Go ahead, Dana. Gotcha.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to add something about Tyler Steen real quick. I thought he played really well when he had to come in the game in New Orleans. And I thought he played maybe even better in this game when he had to come in. And one of the things that really highlighted it for me when I was going through and charting the film was the Eagles ran a tackle power play before Bechton got hurt where Fred Johnson is pulling. And Bechton and Cam Juergens are blocking the one, or double teaming the one technique.

and then Bechton is supposed to get up to the offball linebacker, and he just wasn't able to do it. He was too slow. Like, it was clear that he was just, like, the timing was off. Like, he just wasn't able to get to him, and the offball linebacker made the stop. And it was like the very next drive. Bechton got hurt. Steen came in.

They were in the exact same play, tackle power again. The defense was the same. Like, everything was exactly the same. Except it was like in the low red zone. So the spacing was a little different. But like, everything was the same play, tackle power, Fred Johnson Poles. and Steen did it perfectly. Like he got off the double team and got to the backer.

And I thought that was like, I like noted that. I was like, Steen did the swell better than Beckton, et cetera. And then Siriani mentioned it on his Monday Zoom call. He like mentioned that specific play. Like he said Steen like got off that double team and he got to the thing. It was like such a good play. And he doesn't normally get that detailed.

I thought that was cool. And I think Steen seems to have like a lot of upside and should be able to, you know, be just fun. fine. Like he's going to be up against B.J. Hill Sunday. The Bengals almost never move, like which side their defensive tackles are on. So it'll be BJ Hill most of the time on that side. And they'll run stunts with Sam Hubbard. It's going to be a challenge for him. But I think, but I think he's looked good. So I just wanted to mention that. All right. We will get to the rest of the conversation in just a minute. Zach, how are your nuggets doing? How are my nuggets doing?

well if I went to golden nugget jewels I imagine it would be very good right yes not talking about your little canards talking about the golden and nugget jewelers on 8th and chestnut and listen if if you are Zach's brother Nick and for some reason you have not secured your rings just yet

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podcast. You deserve an expert and the best price, Golden Nugget Jewelers, where Philly gets engaged. Head over to golden nuggetjulers.com to learn a little bit more. I'm so excited for this package that's arriving at my house soon. It's from HelloFresh, because with Hello Fresh, you get Farm Fresh, pre-Portioned ingredients, and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Give trips to the grocery store and count on Hello Fresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. Make this fall the tastiest season yet with farm fresh produce and easy autumn inspired recipes delivered right to your door with Hello Fresh. Hello Fresh delivers

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And so get 10 free meals at hellofresh.com slash free eagles. That's F-R-E-E-A-G-L-E-X. Applied across seven boxes, new subscribers only varies by plan. That's 10 free hello-fresh meals just by going to hellofresh.com slash free eagles. And I want to tell you, HelloFresh is America's number one meal kit. There you go. Now, Zach, before you joined us, we speculated and I would like you to confirm or deny true or false that Jeff Bezos sought your counsel and you advised him to not endorse a political candidate as publisher of the Washington. Well, Jeff Bezos did not seek my counsel, although I was in the, you know, I saw that news when I came across.

And I got to say, like, I think presidential endorsements are from newspapers or somewhat antiquated concept. I don't think readers are deciding who they're going to vote for based on the presidential endorsement from a newspaper. And a matter of fact, I think that, like, it can actually create a perception one way or the other of the newspaper. Like, I understand it's the editorial page, but I don't know how many consumers differentiate between like an editorial page and a and like the front page.

And so it can create, you know, a false impression of like the independence of the paper. Now that said, I do want to be clear when I vote for some of the like down the ballot candidates, I often seek the endorsement of my local newspaper because they're covering like on the ground issues that I'm, I might not be privy to. So I'm always reading the endorsements there. But I think for the presidential election, I can't imagine people are going to get their opinions swayed based on the editorial boards endorsement.

I see by your face you disagree with me there? Yeah, I do. Okay, that's fine. It's not about swaying voters. It's about having prison. I mean, if the, if the, if the motto of your, of your newspaper is democracy dies in darkness, what are we doing? Well, yeah, no, so you're supposed to be. Well, yeah, they're staying, they're staying true to that.

I mean, like, that, like, that motto got made fun of when the first came out with it. What do you mean exactly? Here's a pillow put over your head. Like, yeah. Well, look, if, um, it's like the, the DC, uh, the DC license plates used to say taxation without representation. Yes. And then they changed them. Now they say, now they say, now they say, no.

no taxation without representation because people made fun of, like, it looked like they were endorsing that. And that's kind of like what the democracy dies and darkness thing is. It's almost like, that's like, that's actually like what they're promoting, you know, and, uh, and this kind of cowardice from the editorial page is precisely why newspapers are going to become antiquated. Like, I mean, this is like a great way to state, like we don't matter anymore. You know what I mean? Like, so anyway. Oh, no, no, no, now I, I don't like it if it's being imposed by, uh, the, you know, by the president and the CEO of the company because you are supposed, you know, that there should be independence between management and editorial, right? So I certainly don't like

if that's the impetus of it. But principally, I think that the endorsement from the editorial board is like an overstated concept in today's day and age. I, that's, look, look, reasonable minds can disagree. I implore the chat. Don't interpret that anyway as to like who I'm voting for. It's not meant to be that. It's more meant like, logically speaking, what really moves the needle in, you know, presidential voting in particular. It's not a, the purpose of it is not to sway people. The purpose of it is you have, you as the newspaper, have been covering this thing very closely. You are able to call balls and strikes theoretically. Also, the president has always been. No, I'm going to push back.

Calling balls and strikes would be predicting the, the, the umpire does not, the ball is not out of the pitcher's hand and the umpire says ball before it lands. Well, no, you're controlling an outcome. Like a ball and strike is is adjudicating the pitch. It's not like you're not, you know, you're, okay. Basically, so this would be like the umpire saying before the game, this is like, this would be like the umpire saying before the game, I believe that this team should win based on point A, point B, point C, point D. No, they're not, they're not predicting. That's my point.

They're endorsing. They're saying, well, they're saying this is the candidate you should vote for. This is the right choice. They're saying this, yeah, this is the candidate you should vote for. And my answer is, is that I think that the notion that the newspaper editorial board should be making that determination, I think it's an antiquated concept. So I'm not. But anyways, I-

Yeah, but I- It was fine, basically. The precedent, the precedent has been that they always have done it. And so- That's actually not true because they first did it. No, because they first did it for Dwight Eisenhower and, you know, they, they, the first time that was long enough ago that that was, that was. Yeah, but I'm saying, but I'll always, yeah.

Yeah. Well, yes. They've done it. They've done it the whole time. They've done it the whole time that their current leaders can, like, remember that time. And so it speaks louder when you choose not to do something that you've always done. And to do it on this particular election is just like, you know, whatever. Let's talk about something else we agree on, Zach.

Yeah. Third downs. Eagles won for 13 last game I've been hearing everywhere. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I disagree.

Is that one of 13? Yes. Well, no, no. I know they were one for 13. I completely disagree that that that's the right way to describe what happened in this game. And there are multiple reasons for that. And I've always talked about how by the pure numbers, there are way more first downs and second downs in games than there are third downs. And so to be good at third down, first of all, it's kind of noisy.

second, like you can avoid being in third down at all, right? And so if you can do that at a high rate, it doesn't matter that what your third down percentage is, because you didn't have to actually do the third down, right? It's like if you fail the first test and you have to take a makeup test and that like your rate of doing like well on makeup tests is good, that doesn't mean you're a good student, right? Like you shouldn't have had to take a makeup test, like you should have passed the first one. And so first and second down is like the first test, right? And so I think like looking at the percentage of third down conversions is problematic for three reasons in this game.

One, four of them were Kenny Pickett, like, you know, like they were running the ball and stuff. Like, are you really going to count those? You have to take out those four before you do anything else. So it was really one for nine before garbage time. They literally weren't trying to convert the third downs after that. So one for nine. And then when you look at like there were nine third downs on 24 series, that means that 15 times they avoided. third down. That's 63%, which is well above average. It would be best in the league if you

could maintain it for the whole game. So like they did a great job of avoiding third down. And then of those nine, they ended up converting four of them into first downs because they got three fourth downs. And so it's four, it's 44%, which is also above average when you do the percent of times the third down is ultimately converted to first down. So the Eagles didn't have like a, like a volume of failures on third down like one for 13 suggests. There were five failed third downs. And those five were like, you know, speak back to the staleness of the pure dropback game and third and long game that we were talking about before. But I just don't, I think that one for 13 number, I mean, it's fine if the team is talking about it because they need to improve on third down, that's fine. But I think instead of one for 13, like nine times before garbage time, the Eagles were in third down and four of them, they converted.

So it was four for nine. And if that were the actual number in the stat book, I don't think anyone would be talking about it. So it's just, it's like a, it's like a quick lesson. This is the kind of thing I teach in my statistics, like related courses on don't just look at that number and think that like that number tells the story. Like I would like you see one for 13, but when I turn at this game, I see four for nine. So if I can push back, literally every time I, I've discussed this this week, even in the questions to the coaches and to the players, it's, it's been with the context of going forward on fourth down there that you, you. Oh, yeah. They were 0 for three on on third and short, as defined by true media, right?

And then they were three for three on third down. So, yeah, I agree with, I'm sorry, three for three on fourth down. So I agree that that said, I think third downs, like the ones that you miss and drives, kill drives. And part of the reason why they're starting slow is because they're not converting third downs early in games. No, that's right. But the ones that they missed in this game were mostly like third and ten, which like the base rate for that isn't very high. Like third and ten is not something that you're supposed to convert very much. Right.

I mean? So like third down as early is because they're not doing well enough on first and second down either. That's that's the larger point. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to dismiss. And I have and I do appreciate that. No, I appreciate that you've been asking Jalen and asking Nick and asking everybody about like, you know, like are you thinking about going forward on fourth down, on third down and all that.

So I have heard you asking those questions. And you were listed the most bizarre answer of the year so far. Very weird. Do you guys think the quarterback should know whether the team's going for it on fourth down when he's running the third down play? Because Jalen seemed to indicate that they told him not to worry about it. Like, don't you think he should know? Like, don't you think Patrick Mahomes knows on third and fourth?

Like, what the plan is? Like, Patrick Mahomes might be making the decision of whether to go for it, let alone know about it. But I'm just wondering, like, you know, like, shouldn't he, like, absolutely be told to not only know that? The idea, like, based on it? It blows my mind that there's even a possibility that he wouldn't know. And it's also weird because the way that Nick and Jalen a little bit frame it is not like the way that it should be framed, which is, well, if we get a couple yards, then maybe we'll go for it on fourth down.

Like there's either, it seems very binary. like this is a go or this is not a go which is should not be the case it's all contextual if you get sacked you're not going to go for it if you get if it's fourth and if it's third and five and you get four yards yeah you're probably going to go for it yeah but the idea that jalen hurt the quarterback of the team would be running the plays and not knowing what situation they're in and whether they might be going for it it strikes me as like you're coaching like a freshman quarterback and you don't like you're not trying to overload him with information it's very bizarre Yeah, I agree. I mean, like, even if it's something like, you know, if we get it to like three to go, we're going to go forward or something. Even if it's something like that, that would be good to know, right? Like, that would be good for the quarterback to know that like, hey, like maybe I can check it down here. I don't think the running back on the checkdown is going to get the first down. But we'll get into go for it range. And that would be, you know, better than throwing it away. You know what I mean? Like, like it would be great for him to know that that that's the plan. I thought that was weird. The other thing I got out of espresso that I thought was a little weird was he said that not having a starting offensive line is something. sometimes the same to him as not having his receivers. And you can really tell from the way he plays sometimes. Like he doesn't trust the production as much when Fred Johnson's in the game. Like the one where he just sat down last week was a little weird. Like he could have stepped up on that one.

They actually ran a TT stunt in the middle had opened up. And he could have stepped up and he just sat down. I think like he's approaching the plays a little bit differently when he doesn't have the starting tackles out there. And I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. You know what I mean? I don't know. And this week's going to be a, you know, like you guys talked about it,

like Trey Hendrickson against Fred Johnson. I mean, it's hard to help to tackle in this offense. You know what I mean? This offense isn't designed to do that. And so it'll be interesting to see how that goes and how Jalen handles that as well. Fred Johnson actually knows Trey Hendrickson's game pretty well. They practice against each other. Fred Johnson was often the one task with Trey Hendrickson in practice.

He was telling me. So I think he's hopeful that he's improved, that Fred Johnson's improved more since then than Trey Hedrickson's improved since then. We'll see. How many former Bengals we got in this game, Zach? Jake Elliott. Yeah.

Fred Johnson. Fred Johnson. Is that it? I mean, on this coach except Jamal Singleton, but on the roster, yeah, those are the ones that jump to mind. I did speak to Jake Elliott about his triumphant return to Cincinnati as well. And? It's not quite the Seguan-Barkley storyline.

No, you know, he appreciates the fact that they drafted him. You know, I spoke about this idea. I don't have the number in front of me, but almost like 70% of the kickers that have been drafted since Jake Elliott haven't stuck around with the team that directed them, right? I mean, it seems to be, you know, poor drafting just from an odds perspective or a probability perspective of success of taking a kicker. And so I guess Jake about this. And he said it's just such a black and white position that teams just like don't have tolerance for, you know, for players who are like learning on the job. And what's interesting actually is it made me think of a conversation I had with Dave Fitt back in 2017 where he spoke specifically. about the importance of having patience with Jake Elliott when the Eagles signed him off

a broad practice spot. If you remember, Jake missed some kicks early on. And Fipps said, like, if you're going to rotate kickers every time someone has a bad miss, you're just going to always be rotating kickers. So, like, yeah, at some point you have that conviction in the player. And fortunately for the Eagles, that was the case. Now, the Bengals, they had a competition. It was Shane Graham, I believe, versus Jake Elliott. They went with Shane Graham. But you just wonder, that's a team that cycle through kickers until they took Evan of Beersen, who was the exception here, was the draft pick who stuff. All right.

There are two players on the Eagles practice squad, Zach, who have played for the Bengals. Two players on the practice squad. Gosh, I do see these guys quite a bit, and I speak to them. But for the sake of the show, I will tell you that both of them were on the team in training camp. These are not newcomers. Yeah. one of them you one of them you will kick yourself

for not going to one of them is a surprise yeah one of them you talk about all the time Zach is like he's like he's about to be activated and stuff and he has not been at any point oh CJ Yuzama yeah good on our

yeah exactly yeah and the other one and who's the other one Will Greer ah okay I was not going to get there I spoke a little bit nice guy nice guy interesting curious myself then. I had a nice conversation with Glover recently.

Lovely. All right. Let's talk a little bit about the Eagles defense in this game and just in general. You have been impressed as Fran has talked about with the exchange pressures that we hear. Yeah, it was awesome. So good. I mean, there were five

particular times. Nikobi Dean blitzed and one of the edge rushers dropped out. And the coverage behind it was beautiful on all of them. You know, a couple of sacks came off of that. And it was three, I think three sacks, right? Three sacks came off of those plays.

And it was just, you know, so nice to see like some of those Fangio stables working with, with this group of, you know, especially young secondary players. Because the whole Fangio principle of starting with a four-man shell and then having one of the safeties rotate, whether they're rotating to the flat, rotating to the middle of the field, or if it's a rotation to a cover six, where they play cover two on one side and cover four on the other. And in this game, we saw all of those. I mean, the variety in the zone coverages was so fun. And it was a stark contrast with the week before when they played so much man coverage against Cleveland.

And I even on the show said, I thought maybe it was because of Cooper to Gene, like, you know, not trusting Cooper to Jean to be able to match routes and know the assignments. and I specifically said, Cooper de Genes have trouble when there's a crossing route, and he doesn't know when to chase it and when to pass it off, and the Giants run a lot of crossers, and so it's going to be interesting what they do in this game. And I was worried about that. And the film, it was almost like the film was made by AI to be like the perfect way it could have gone. Like the Giants ran all those crossers.

They did all the things that they've been doing. And the Eagles played zone, almost exclusively the whole game after the first quarter. They played a little bit of man early, and then they kind of just stopped. And the pass-offs were beautiful. Fran has some really nice breakdowns on, you know, sign up to be a diehard and read his, the full, watches full videos and all of that. But like the way that Cooper DeGine was passing off routes, the way that Nicopi Dean was like just sitting in the middle of the field, like waiting for some of those like

ball routes and girl routes to just come to him. And they did. You know, like you could tell it was very good. scouting of the giants. You could tell the giants were a little bit predictable, like they were running the same combinations that they had been, and they repeated the same plays a few times during the game as well. But it was just so promising to see the way that they were that they were matching those. It was awesome. And some of those sacks were plays where the route concept is designed to get the ball out much earlier than the sack occurred.

So it wasn't necessarily like a great rush by somebody. But the zone coverage is matched and caught those routes just beautifully. I mean, just night and day from the Tampa game, in both the courage and the rush part of it. Like in the Tampa game, guys were wide open and all the fast rushers were on the ground. Like, this was exactly the opposite of that. Zach, do you think that there is something to the notion

that because their last name's rhyme, Cooper DeGine and Nacobie Dean have an interesting connection? No, I don't think there's anything to that. As a matter of fact, no. I think everything has to do with the talent and the coaching and the steam and nothing to do with we'll start with D and end in E in.

And then you just add an EJ. So it's like, you know, Cooper DeGine puts the EJ in the Kobe Dean. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that has a tangible effect on the game? I can't prove that it doesn't. Okay.

All right. Well, if that's the, yeah, go on. I shouldn't be interrupting this, but I'll do Zach a favor and do so. Thank you. Can I geek? out real quick about Fangio's safety usage in this game? Yeah, sure.

Sure. You know how I've been like, you know, talking about how in week one, CJ was the boundary safety and Reed was the field safety, and then he switched since then and Zach asked Angio about it and all that. In this game, the Eagles ran a little bit more what's known as cover three buzz. They usually do cover three sky where the boundary safety rotates to the flat opposite the nickel. this game, in part because of the Giants formation. Man, we're still waiting for that Snap of Cover 2 Buster.

I just can't wait. You know, I watch through, I watch through the defensive film just waiting for it. And, yeah, I'll be, I'll be, I'm not even going to text for it. I'm going to call him in the middle of the night if I, if I see it. But, yeah, no, so they played a lot of cover cover three buzz. And the thing with Cover 3 buzz is it involves typically the first. field safety as the one that ends up rotating down to the middle of the field and the boundary safety ends up going to the post.

And the reason that I found the safety usage interesting in this game is because the several times the Eagles did cover three buzz in this game were the only time since week one that CJ was the boundary safety and Reed was the field safety, which tells me that Fangio wants read to be the one rotating down every time. Like because when they did cover three sky, they lined up the other way and And the rotating safety ended up being read in both situations. So if you line up in a way where you're trying to just disguise it, you wouldn't do it that way. And it might have just been a one-off because if you keep doing this, it'll be a tell, right?

Like you'll be able to tell from the way they're lined up, like, who's going to rotate. But I think the, or like which way they're going to rotate is another way to say that, I guess. But I did think that it was just like a really good example of crossing routes coming from one side being caught by the safety on the other side. And they did it beautifully, almost without exception. There was one time they messed it up. It was on the last sack. But the sack happened so fast, it didn't matter. But neighbors ran a post and he was wide open because Reed was trying to catch the crosser from the other side.

And C.J. chased the same crosser. And so that ended up being a wide open. It would have been like an easy touchdown to neighbors if the sack hadn't happened early enough. But hey, that's a great example of complimentary football. When the coverage messes up, the pass rush can erase the mistake. And that's what happened. There's a somebody named Fran Duffy in the chat who says, really, really sicko stuff from Danes here.

Excellent insight. I got to say, the range of our show going from cover three buzz to the rhyming of the names to presidential endorsements. You know, I don't know how to interpret it, that your question, the Professor Selman was about cover three buzz. And your question to me was whether I think that the rhyming of the names is the reason for the defense's. So, yeah, I'm still trying to figure out that one. What did you? What did you think of Nick's response when I asked him if he talks to his team about the election?

Yeah, it was probably the response I expected from him. He said it was a good question. It was as if he never, like he was unaware, yeah. I don't think he's unaware. I just don't think it's, I don't think it's something that he's allocating much time or attention to with his scene. So, Dana, we have framed it and talked about it as if this is a week in which we will, we will learn something about this team, especially on defense because they have looked really good

the past two weeks, all of those things behind the scenes. Like the tape has matched what it has looked like, but it has been against inferior opponents on offense. That is not exactly the case this week. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, it's easy to say, like, you know, these two teams were not good offenses

and not good quarterbacks. And so, you know, who cares if you stop them? Well, first of all, I mean, like not every team held those two teams without touchdowns, the whole game, right? So, like, it's nice to be able to completely dominate bad teams as well. I mean, this defense with Sean DeSye last year made Sam Howell look like Joe Montana twice last year, right? Like so you have to be good against bad offenses in order to be a good defense. And so it was good to be completely dominant against these two. Having said that, we will remember what happened in 2022 when, you know, Zach's,

thinks that that was a good defense with Jonathan Gannon. Yeah, well, I don't know why you would have that idea because it was the historically worst performance in like the history of the Super Bowl, which we all saw coming from a mile away. But anyway, when you look at that schedule, that year, it was crazy how there were basically no good quarterbacks on the schedule. Like, Doc Prescott was maybe the only one, and he destroyed them late in the season. And this year, fortunately, that's not the case. Like, we're going to learn much earlier what this defense is made of with the upcoming schedule. This Cincinnati game, Cincinnati is sixth in offensive DVOA.

Washington is third. Play them twice. You've got the Ravens in between the two Washington games. They're the best offensive team in football right now. I think that those four games in particular are going to teach us a lot about how Fangio is going to approach some of these better offenses and also whether the young guys are going to be able to handle it. I really saw a lot of the Ravens not being. You know, I'm still, I still, I still, like my, my, my, I'm still deeply saddened for a few minutes every day by that Super Bowl. So I can't, I can't get off that.

Sorry. Someone who's opinion, I really respect, you know, his, his rationale for, for why Eagles will win this game or, or why he's picking the Eagles is, is that the data set here, is similar. You know, they, they both played the same teams, the last two games. They've both played the Browns, they both played the Giants. And he's like, the Eagles played those teams much better than the Bengals did. Right. So this idea that the Bengals are a superior team, you've seen these past two weeks that, like the way the Eagles played the Browns and the Giants is better than the way the Bengals played the Browns and the Giants. Now, I don't know if that adds up to an Eagles win on Sunday. But when the person brought up to me, I said, you know what? That's a compelling point that I can't dismiss. Yeah, and I'm sick of watching these teams, by the way. Like, I had to watch, I watched every snap of Giants, Mengles, getting ready for the Giants, every snap of Bengals Browns, getting ready for that, every snap of the Browns game before. It's like these are the only three other teams in the league.

Like, it'll be nice to watch film from some other teams starting next week. Then is, we have a super show. Yeah, that's to be fun, the Jacksonville Jaguars. Yeah. From Quinn Davis, who says, What was your favorite song that MJ Lenderman played last night? That's awesome. I'm assuming Quinn is the person who said hi to me at the MJ Lenderman show last night at Unitar

Transfer. And if he's not, shout out to the guy who said hi to me as well. By the way, if you see me in the wild and you're a fan of the show, like, don't think that I'm one of these people that like doesn't want to be bothered or anything. Like, it is my favorite thing in the world when someone recognizes me and says, So please, please do so. And when that happens at a show and I'm with like a friend who doesn't watch the show or whatever, it's even cool because they're like, how does that guy know you?

Like, what's that about? Are you famous? You know, like, so that's, that's always fun. MJ Lunderman is awesome. And the show was amazing. And my favorite song was in the encore when they did the cover of Werewolves of London. It was just such a fun, like, high energy performance. version of that song, but it was just great.

So that's my answer. Check out MJ Letterman's song. Don't know I'm J. Letterman, but I did see Malcolm Gladwell last night. I really enjoyed that. Enlightening and discussion. It was feeling, you know, I, I mean, I don't want to talk a crap. I mean, I thought. The voice raises again.

Yeah, yeah. I wasn't thrilled with the moderator. And yeah, I thought there was, and, and look, maybe some people like that. Everyone has different things. I thought it was too much moderator, not enough from Malcolm. What was the problem with the moderator? It was just too much, like, you know, like, I'm there to see the author.

I'm not there to see the moderator and the author, right? So I understand the conversation. Was this a Penn? No, it was it was not a Penn. Now, if it was at Penn, I imagine it would be hosted by Adam Grant. And in that case, I would have loved to hear the moderator. In this case, this might get back to the moderator. Look, the moderator's very accomplished in her own, right?

There's something wrong with that. I just thought there was, I thought there was too much moderator last night, not enough Malcolm, if that makes sense. Yeah, you're dipping. Yeah, I mean, I'm worried about you here, Zach. Why? Why? Well, you didn't want to hear from the woman. You just wanted to hear from Malcolm.

Oh, you interpret that from what I just said. But that has not like that that is you assigning gender to this whatsoever. I literally, the event was an author event. You're there to see the author, the person who wrote the book. You didn't know. So it has nothing to do. Yeah, I noticed like Ryan. And you went to go see three men speak this week.

Well, I will say the Monday event I went to that I took us to was originally a woman. but she had a medical situation and so she was replaced by a male and yeah no I don't pay any attention to the gender with that whatsoever I mean yeah so it sounds like I saw this is a bit of a surprise Zach because I think before the week you had this you had this yeah a lineup of Neil Katyal Larry David and Malcolm Gladwell if we had been you know asked you ahead of time what was going to be the peck nest migrate probably a different answer than after the fact. What is it now? Well, just based on the performances this week.

You're nesting Neil. Yeah, I'm nesting Neil. I'm nesting Neil. I am, I'm peck and Malcolm and I'm migrating LD. Yeah, migrated. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I love LD. I just said I it might be I'd listen to too much LD over the years that I didn't get I didn't leave LD. LD feeling like, oh, I learned a lot. And I didn't feel like that was like the funniest thing I ever heard.

But you know what? I appreciate it. Honestly, I appreciate hearing from different perspectives, different people. Malcolm Gladwell, I took a ton of notes that I went home last night. And I was like, okay, this is interesting to me. You were clearly should have come to M.J. Lenderman and stuff. I have no idea who M.J. Lenderman is, to be honest with you. Well, yeah, that's the best of musicians.

Yeah, I prefer female musicians. Oh, wow. Well, Zach, if you prefer female, if you prefer female musicians, the very next thing I was going to say is that tonight, Emily and I are going to the first Unitarian Church to see Heinz, which is a Spanish punk-pop band. All four of them are female. So I'll see you there.

I would. I've got my brother's rehearsal dinner tonight, so otherwise I would. Now, Dan is. You have your own official. story. Yes, I loved Zach's fish story. That was awesome. I didn't not know about the bureaucracy of adopting is the right word, I believe, fish these days. When I was seven years old, I was given a fish by a friend of my parents who moved to California, so they just gave me their fish. And I was supposed to feed it or whatever. And I did. And I remember it was gained.

It was the night of game four of the 1986 NBA finals. This was Rocket Celtics. And I hated the Celtic. Not that I cared about the Rockets, but I just hated the Celtics. And the Rockets had a chance to tie the series of two. And I remember we're watching that. And my mom was like, your fish is like looks very sad. And is just kind of like moving along the bottom of the bowl.

And I don't think it's good. And so I walked over and I was like, oh, my God. he has a pebble in his mouth. Like the fish had a pebble in his mouth. Like one of the pebbles was just completely inside his mouth. And you could tell he wasn't like able to function normally. And so we lived at 44th and spruce. We took the bowl and we ran to the pen, you know, like whatever,

like veterinarian, you know, like whatever it is like school or whatever at, I think it's still there actually. it's like 40th and spruce. How big of a thing? Like a little orange goldfish. Okay. With like a small pebble in his mouth. And we ran to the vet late night, like, you know, during the NBA final.

So it's like, you know, 9, 10 p.m., whatever. And they took the fish. They looked at it. We told them like, look, there's a pebble in his mouth. They, and my mom can confirm all this. Like, she's the one who reminds me of the details of the, the story. They hooked up the fish to oxygen, which I don't even know what that means. But like, yeah, I mean, this is like a classic example of like, it's a veterinary school. So it's like,

hey, let's take advantage of this like weird opportunity to like, like, you know, learn some of these techniques that we're teaching or whatever. I don't know. Like clearly the goal should have been to get the rock out of his mouth, right? But they hooked them up to oxygen and they were like, and then they came out of the room and they were like, he's responding well to the oxygen or something like that. like this is not a long-term solution. Like we're going to keep the fish on oxygen. Like, what does that even mean? Like, uh, and so they, so my mom was like, what about the rock like in his mouth, right? Like, like, don't we have to get that out at some point? Like, we can't just keep the fish hooked up the oxygen where the rest of his life. And so, so they bring out the fish. And my mom like holds him,

like, still in the water, but he's able to hold him and be like, you see, like you got to get the rock out. And the vet was like, oh, wow, that's really cool how you can hold him like that. Can you do that again? And he like that out, tweezers. And he took the rock out with the tweezers. And the fish lived for another, I don't know, three or four years after that. So that's my, that's the only, he's like Kim and two other fish I had later, the only pets I've ever had. So those are my, those are my pet stories. We travel too much to have real pets. So my fish, my, my, my fish story from childhood, I think, I think Zach will like this one. This was my mom's favorite story to tell about my brother, is that we had like a couple fish. They were not like the world's biggest deal, but we had some fish.

And my brother just came downstairs one morning. First word, you know, he's all sleepy first words out of his mouth there. Mom, what's the point of the fish? I would never say such a thing. That's what I think. Yeah, exactly. No, I never say such a thing. I actually think I would love to hear Joya's fish stories. I imagine they're P-H-I-S-H as opposed to F-I-S-H.

What are you calling her a stoner? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. She loves music. No, no, Joy, don't take it like that. She's a big music fan. Joey used to go to a lot of concerts when I knew her. So nothing. How did she get that from that?

I think that's how she takes it. Julia is off screen laughing is what's happening. Is that a thing? Like I didn't, I just know they're a band. Is that a thing? Come on. All right, Zach. Give us your prediction.

You, you act as if I've been to a fish concert. I literally couldn't tell you a fish song. Oh my gosh. You cannot, you cannot play ignorant on everything. I'm not playing. Like, I, look, I know they have fun at fish concerts.

I didn't know that was associated. I didn't know, like, it was associated with, with quote-unquote stoners. I didn't know that. No. How would I know that? How wouldn't you know that?

Okay. All right. My hands are clean, Joy. My hands are clean. It's the main reason. It's like a pre-roval. Yeah. They sell out like, you know,

I have friends who, like, swear by fish. I just, the fish I know with Miami dolphins. It's a joke. They're not fish. Okay. All right.

Good for you. Yes. All right, the question for me, my prediction. So look, I think this is an interesting game in that I think how the Eagles play matter more than the result. In other words, I think if they lost this, it's an acceptable loss, if you will. But I want to see if they can play better. I am picking the Bengals to win. I think the Bengals are their offense is playing better right now.

I'm certainly not impressed by their defense, although I do like, their defensive coordinator. I think the Eagles keep it close. If the Eagles win, this would qualify as a good win for the Eagles. But I am... I thought you were the one like a week ago making the whole argument about there's no such thing as a good win or a bad win or a... Like, it's either a win or a loss. Yeah, I did think that.

Yeah, I was saying that, yeah. So I was saying like the point of the game is winning. So feel good about the win. So perhaps I'm being hypocritical here. I do think that how they play in this game matters, because I think this is a good measuring stick game. I think the Bengals are a playoff caliber team. And if the Eagles offense shows more life in this game,

then I will be impressed by that. And so I'm picking Bengals 30, Eagles 27. There you go. and we also have a another super chat from Jill and All Sick O'Dio Medea who says, do you think the opponent's D plays the Eagles differently than other teams or on tape?

So it's another variable they solve on the first couple series. Essentially, is that part of the Eagles strategy on their opening drives because not only are they trying to figure out how other defenses are going to play them, but they expect that other defenses will play them differently than they do other teams?

Do you think so, Dennis? My answer to that is absolutely. Like on the film, like, you know, the amount, like the film that I watch is typically I watch the other team's entire game from the week before. And then I watch, you know, the entire game against the Eagles. And so, yes, like, absolutely. I think there are definitely teams that will always match to certain personnel groupings with one kind of defense. And then they don't do that against the Eagles. So I think so.

And more important than me thinking so, Jason Kelsey talks about this all the time. He said, like, you know, like throughout the time that Jalen's been the quarterback, teams will play the Eagles so differently than they do on film that they're constantly adjusting between series to what they see in the early series. You can still back yourself into a first quarter field goal. You can back yourself into a first quarter field goal. Like, I'm not, I'm not absolving. Yeah.

I don't think it's an explanation for why they're going to school. No, no, no. You can see how they're playing you while you're doing well. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to have bad plays to see how they're doing. But I'm going to push back on one thing, Zach said. He said the offense, Cincinnati offense has been playing well. Definitely true for the season.

But they've been playing terribly the last two games. I mean, the two games that I've seen on film, I was watching them because I was watching the Giants two weeks ago. And then I watched this last game. I mean, they had a kickoff return for a touchdown to take a seven-down and this last game. And then score again in the first half. I mean, like, they had like seven drives in a row getting no points against the Browns. I mean, they seem to be stylistically similar to the Eagles.

I know Fran talked about this a little bit. Like they don't do a whole lot of under center. They don't do a whole lot of play action. They really rely on those, you know, the talent of the receivers. The big difference, of course, is the quarterback is the stud, right? And so, you know, that's the thing that they're leaning on. But it hasn't worked the last couple of games. And they don't really run it either.

They're the second heaviest past team in the league in neutral situations. And so they haven't been good. So, I mean, it'll be interesting to see if that's just, you know, noise from these two games. But that's one thing that's making me feel a little bit better is that they're good for the season and they're talented and all that, but they're hardly humming right now. Any possibility of the Eagles pooch punt on first down on the opening drive? Can't just get it out of the way?

No, no, I don't anticipate that. Well, I didn't say, do you think it's going to happen? Just any possibility. I mean, I suppose, you know, once you eliminate the improbable, all that remains some matter, or I'm sorry, once you eliminate the impossible, all that remains no matter how improbable must be the truth, right? So I believe that's from Sherlock Holmes. So, yeah, so if it's not impossible, then it is possible. By the way, we do have football news that T. Higgins downgraded from just not listed to questionable,

suffered a minor injury in practice today. So certainly that way. Interesting. Yeah. Change things. Questionable usually means you play, but a Friday downgrade the question. Yeah. It might be interesting.

On the topic of T. Higgins, I suggest a lot of our audience go back and check out the 2019 draft receiver rankings between Bocchio and me, just for shits and giggles. You have to curse? You're not allowed to curse him. Okay, yes. Also, isn't the whole thing, haven't we relitigated this already? I like T. Higgins, but I said, but he was same for same with Arthago-White said at the time. I like the player.

He said, I don't need another JJ Rthagga-White-Sang. I said, I like the player more than the fit. Yeah. I don't think you are the one who needs to be touting your, your wide receiver draft grades. As a matter of fact, I think that my grades of age pretty well, if you go back and look Ben. But that's besides the point. Yeah, how's Leviska-Cenault doing your boy? He actually scored a touchdown a week ago.

Oh, that's good. That's helpful. I have to stay on brand and mention the uniforms real quick. Brilliant move by the Bengals. And I've been wondering why more teams don't do this. To have their white out with the white tiger and the all-white uniforms coincide with their game against the Eagles, who we know are just awful in the green. uniforms. And so 14 and 16 under Siriani with the green uniforms, and despite having like an incredible record in all other uniforms. And the Bengals are basically forcing the Eagles to wear those. Unless they go black. A bit of analysis for me.

I'm trying to find this, Zach. I can't find. They're not going to wear black on the road. No, I don't think so. Because they'd be wasting their one chance to wear black on like a 1 p.m. away game, which I don't think they're going to do. Sure, sure. Okay, let's just do this. We all rank Jerry Judy one. It's $3.29.

Well, you brought it up. I had CD, you and I both had CD Lamb 2, Sheel had Cidlylam 3. You and I both had Henry Ruggs 3. She'll had Henry Ruggs 2. Okay. So for you and I are the exact same and sheel's looking bad. I had Justin Jefferson 4. You had Justin Jefferson 5.

and she'll had Justin Jefferson six that's a point for me probably the most important point you had Jalen Rager seven I had him five she'll had him four okay a little bit of a point for you but she'll again covering himself in glory Leviska Schnault you had four

ahead of Justin Jefferson I had nine and she'll had seven so you're the high man on Levisca okay this is this is the thing this is what Zach is pounding his chest about. This is what makes him the soothsayer. He has teeing in six. I have him eight. Wow. That's more than not being higher on dressing. And having him way below Lefisca-Schanalt.

One spot below, Elizabeth's going to be sure. Had I known that was the case, I probably would not have brought this up. Here's the other one. Here's the other one that matters. Brandon Ayyuk. I have him six. You and she'll both have him nine. Okay. Well, Levisich and all, we'll probably have more receiving ours this year that brand I. You're just saying. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true. Anyways, it's 3.30.

Let's wrap this up. That was it. That was what you were puff on your chest about. If you read my write-ups, context matter. Sometimes you don't just look at the endorsement. You read what the word say, yes. Oh, okay. But then maybe you're not supposed to make an endorsement in the first place.

You probably shouldn't, actually. Okay. All right. All right. I appreciate this. Have fun at the weddings at it. Yeah. Thank you very much.

I'm just so happy for Nick and Jesse, and they deserve a wonderful weekend. You got a big speech tonight. Yes. Hopefully, if you are a sicker who's attending the rehearsal dinner tonight, please record the speech and send it along. We're off the record tonight. Well, not in fact.

there are, you know, good citizen journalists out there. I will tell them. We are off the record. This is one of those, we don't need an October surprise here, right? All right. That'll do it for this episode of PHOA Egos podcast. Thank you, Danes. We will be with you all day on Sunday.

Kickoff show 1230, halftime show, and the post game show afterwards with myself, Fran Duffy, Jamie Lynch, and Super Bowl champion Vinnie Curry as well as Zach Berman. If all goes well on the flight, live from Cincinnati. all of us here at P.H.O.I. Thank you to Julia, who's to token it up somewhere, listening to Fish. We appreciate it. And we will talk to you on Sunday. As always,

we love you.