PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Ask Fran Duffy: From Tyler Warren’s draft range to Day 3 sleepers, the NFL Draft mailbag is open

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

It’s the final PHLY Draft Show before the Tennessee Titans are on the clock Thursday night. ALLCITY NFL Draft expert Fran Duffy will answer all of your questions, whether it’s about the Eagles’ pick at No. 32 or Fran’s scouting process leading up to draft night. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It is finally NFL draft week and you are watching the P HLI draft show with Fran Duffy. I'm Zach Berman, but you don't care about me. You care about this man, the All-City NFL draft expert, Fran Duffy. Fran, this is your week. This is your show. We're here. I'm excited. 48 hours away, just over 48 hours away.

You know how this goes. It's like late night phone calls, late night texts. It's a lot of information gathering right now. for everybody around the NFL. I should say everybody because some people with teams don't like getting into this, but there are a lot that are.

And so there's a lot of stuff going around right now. So we have solicited your questions. Yep. Fran has put out calls in the mailbag. We have everything here in the chat as well. So we're being dynamic here. Put it live in the chat, super chats. You know the drill by now.

But I'll turn it over to you. Where do you want to start as far as the questions that came to you. Yeah, I think, obviously, look, we will prioritize super chats, right? So if you do a super chat, we'll definitely get to it. We'll make sure we get to the Discord questions, but we want this to be interactive. So jump into the chat.

And if we didn't answer right away in the basic chat here live on YouTube, then keep asking it and we'll get to it at some point. But I want to try and do it rapid fire-ish, and we'll get through as many of these questions as we can. There you go. All right. So I'll start with one that we got from the Discord. This is from James Rohan.

over on our, if you're a diehard with PHOI, you get access to the Discord here. So with the draft class being very flat after the first 10 to 15 picks, if a player like Walter Nolan or Malachi Stark does not drop to the Eagles, how do you think that they will balance their priorities in the first round? The idea being if they have a first round grade on a Bucca or burden and everybody else is available or everyone else available was second or lower, would they select them based on best player available or does positional value of O-line D-line trade down to maximize round two, round three outweigh it?

I actually think I would like to get your take on this. Knowing Howie Rose been the way that you do? How do you think that he would approach that? I think howie will, I think all things being equal, it's line of scrimmage. That's the way it is with, with Howie. If you're looking at Malachi Stark and you're great on him as the top 10 player. Yep.

I'm not privy to the Eagles draft board, but my sense is this is the player the Eagles like. The fact that the Eagles brought in a first round safety for a visit shows you that they're interested in him. He just, he, he, he fits. I don't think that they, I don't want to say they would do it through gritted teeth. Yep.

But I think they would go with Malachi Starx if that lineman's not there. And if the trade back opportunity is not too enticing. Correct. You know, you're the one who's on the phone with people around the league. You're scouting everything. I think similar to 2017, the Eagles are in an intriguing position.

for a tradeback because the Cleveland Browns potentially want a quarterback at 34. After you get past Cam Ward, it seems like there's this range of quarterbacks, whether it's Jackson Dart, whether it's Jalen Milro, potentially even Shador Sanders, who could be following late first round similar to what Lamar Jackson did. So if a team wants to get in front of the Browns or if they want to get that fifth year option, that 32 pick would be appealing. but if there's no tradeback and there's no line of scrimmage player,

I think Malachi Stark is someone the Eagles would gladly take and Howie Roseman will get up there and say, best player on the board. Yep, I agree. I think that when you look at, if you go back and you look at my big board that was released late last month in March, and I'll have a new one, the final one here in the next 24, 36 hours or so, I will release the horizontal board as well as the vertical board.

And that's how teams are going to operate. That's how Harry Rosen, the way that Zach just explained it, You go right across that top line, that horizontal line, and that's how you determine, you know, positional value, and maybe Malachi Stark has a higher grade than Walter Nolan. But as you said, the tie will go to the line of scrimmage player, right? And if they're on the same tier, that's where positional value, I think, comes into play.

So, yeah, I think that sums that up. Is Stark's the only non-line-in-scrimage player that you can see the Eagles going 32? Or, I mean, is Mason-Taylor someone who could be in conversation there? Yep, I think Mason Taylor falls into that bucket. I think that if you're talking, you know, potentially, I mean, because it's not even necessarily just like, you know, non-quality positions. It could be even like corner where that is a priority position. But if you just spend, you spend your first two picks on corner last year, do you want to add a third one into the mix? It's probably not ideal. You would certainly throw a receiver into that

where it's like maybe not the ideal source of resources. But, you know, I could see them going that way, like you said, through gritty teeth. Yeah. All right, let's go. We've got one from Idiot Sandwiches in the chat. Fran, what's your take on Kyle Kinnard? ZB watched a ton of my Gamecocks this year, so I'd like his take as well. I like Kyle Kinnard, started his career, Georgia Tech. This is a pass rusher for South Carolina, fifth year senior, moved to the SEC and saw a spike in production was that I believe it was the SEC defensive player

of the year, certainly won some awards down there in that conference. I do think that he's a pure high side type of rusher. You know, you're talking about the pure like speed rusher win on the outside. I wish you had a little bit more to be able to win inside of the point of attack. But this is a guy who's gotten better each and every year. You like the production at South Carolina. I just wish there was a little bit more of a varied rush plan there. Yeah, I see what you're saying there.

I actually did like Kinnard more than I thought going into the draft process. I did watch South Carolina. I'm T.J. Sanders was someone who I was paying close attention to. Kinnard is someone who the production was there. This is a deep edge rusher class. There are edge rushers who I would prefer over him. Even in the SEC, you know, I've been on the James Pierce. train.

Yep. But Kinar, you're probably talking about what? Late day two. Is that, I would say that's probably the ceiling. Yeah, probably late day two. In this class,

with the depth that pass rusher, he probably falls in the day three would be my guess. But I could see him going like late third round. Let's go to another one here. We got from the Discord. Jammie asked with all the research, the interviews,

the film, et cetera, that you've put in over the course of the lead up to the draft. When it finally gets to draft weekend, what is the one thing you're most excited for as the weekend unfolds? And so for me, honestly, especially this year, it's the unpredictability. You know, I love the team building process.

You know, and to me, this is one instance during the calendar year where you really force teams to kind of take truth serum. They can't lie to you with their draft picks. Obviously, you know, we don't know what the entire board looks like. But 99.9% of the time, teams don't take players unless they really like them, unless they love them, right? And so I think that at the end of the day, I love being able to just get a peek inside the mind of decision makers, general managers, head coaches, especially when they come to the podium, everybody's happy and jovial. And that's where I think you get a little bit more honesty. There are some kernels of truth and more of those press conferences than, in my opinion,

any other point in the calendar year. Yeah. You know, it's an interesting question here because you view it from the perspective of a draft analyst draft insider. I view it from the perspective of a beat reporter. And you hit it on the head that A, the team tells you the truth, right? And I've always said, like leading up to the draft, the best type of the best type of misleading statement that a team can do is just get up there and tell you exactly what they're going to do. Because if Howie Roseman was like, yeah, we're going to, we love this player, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. Everyone's going to be like, yeah, he's trying to mislead you. The reality is in the week leading up to it, and even the months leading up to it,

I try to kind of take a grain of, I take it with a grain of salt, what I hear. Draft weekend, that's not the case. They're showing you their work. The other part, too, is I love team building. And I always love seeing like the different pieces come together. How are you navigating the draft? And, you know, last year, for instance, I thought Howie did a superb job on day three when he was able to get three picks in this year's draft. Yep. He was still able to kind of land the guys that they targeted.

And then this is more of a recent phenomenon. But I absolutely adore the behind-the-scenes footage that the teams put out. You've seen this more and more every year. or so. The Eagles, for instance, they showed their Red Star meeting. They showed their passion meeting, which is what Howie calls that Sunday morning meeting when the scouts kind of have to stand on the table for the players they care about. And when you kind of see the behind the scenes, it really crystallizes. All right, they did think this about Jeremiah Trotter Jr. You know, in the front office, you saw the scouts, you know, you saw Alan Walking saying Johnny Wilson's unique. And when you

you hear that dynamic in the draft room, it teaches you so much more. For all of our viewers, that might say that. There might be a whiskey joke there with Johnny Walker. Johnny Walker is a pass rusher in Missouri this year in the draft. So we'll let that slide, ZB. Let's go to another one here from the Discord. This is from Philly Dan and media. How far does Tyler Warren need to fall for the Eagles to trade up?

Tight ends do fall in drafts. Philly Dan, I apologize for this. I would say it's extremely unlikely that he's going to be in, striking distance for the Eagles because you've got to keep in mind you're a 32 to get to where Tyler Warren is going to go. I mean, you're giving up a future one. I can't imagine they're giving up two first round picks to get Tyler Warren. I would say that the highest he goes is number seven to the New York Jets. That's the highest that I've heard. I guess if you want to get really crazy, the number five is still kind of shrouded in mystery. I do think it's going to be an offensive player to the Jacksonville

Jaguars. In theory, that could be Tyler Warren. But the highest I've heard concretely is the, I don't even think that's a word, but Tyler Warren to the Jets. At seven, the lowest would be 14 to the Indianapolis goals. I find it hard to believe that he would get past Indianapolis. I think Chris Ballard would be doing somersaults if they were able to get Warren at 14. I think even in a hypothetical scenario where he falls beyond 14, let's say that Indianapolis his board favors Colton Loveland Moore or I'm sorry, Colton Loveland Moore, and that Warren slips, I don't think the Eagles trade up for a tight end because when you're

talking about attaching picks, I think they attach picks for their priority positions. That's O-line, D-Line. I don't think they would attach picks to get a tight end, to get a safety. Yep. Let's go another one here from the Discord. This is from Chonk with Dotson, most likely gone after the season. Who in this draft outside of Travis Hunter, Tetero, McMillan, and Matthew Golden would be the best fit for the wide receiver three position for the birds? And when would you pick them? So look, this goes back to that first question in terms of the allocation of resources. Do we envision that they would select a wide receiver in the first round? We talked about receivers yesterday with Coach Flynn. I would be surprised

if the first pick in this draft was spent on the wide receiver position, I think it would have to be certainly like best player available and they couldn't trade out and then they stayed through the board that way. To me, like realistically that that final pick, the third round, right? Is that the earliest you could see it? Yeah, that's the earliest I would see it. And I even think that could be a bit early too. Yeah, right. I think this is probably more of a day three position.

And to the point, let's say that there's not a run on wide receivers early and you're sitting at the board and there are some appealing receivers there, I got to think a team like maybe Vegas in the top of round two would want to trade up to get a wide receiver. And so, you know, I always think that if there's a player who's of enormous value who falls to your spot, he's going to be intriguing to a team that probably needs that player more than you do. Let's go to Blue Sky here.

What is the over under on night one trades? Who are the two of their most likelyest teams to move their pick? This is from A. Christie on Blue Sky. Here in all kinds of stuff when it comes to movement in this draft. And depending on who you talk to, depending on what day you talk to them, there's the thought that there's going to be a lot of movement or that there's not going to be really any movement at all, especially in the top 15 of this draft.

I've kind of laid it out here on the show over the last few weeks with Bo. But really, it comes down to how teams are going to view each tier of prospects in this draft. If you view Tyler Warren as one of the elite blue chip players and he starts to fall, then he's worth moving up if you are the Colts at 14. Then you could see the Colts move up from 14 to say eight or something along those lines or 10 to the Chicago Bears. I think if you are of the opinion that, hey, you know what? Like it cuts off before then, you're less likely to be able to move up.

So it's going to come down to how each of these teams is going to be able to view it. The only team that we're getting consistent media buzz about potentially moving up is the Denver Broncos. That's one that's consistently come up with all of the media reports, the insider reports. I would say that I've heard some things about San Francisco, potentially wanted to get aggressive slightly to move up a little bit, depending on who would or fall. Say a Mason Graham falls out of the top six, top seven. I would be remiss, Zach, if I didn't mention it at 2 o'clock here on the Eagles show, we are going to do a dueling mock draft and we're going to go back and forth.

I'll take the odds. You'll take the evens. we'll go back and forth. So a lot of the stuff that I've had in my head is going to come pouring out in that exercise as well. But San Francisco, I've heard about moving up. You hear a lot more about teams moving down. And so Carolina would love to move down. I've heard about New England at four potentially moving down. There was a report today about the New York Giants and Cleveland Browns, both having conversations about the, we know this is the time of year when the conversations are having, and you've hit the nail in the head with that with Eagles and Howie Roseman.

but all teams right now are having those conversations. I would say there are more teams that are open to moving down than up. Just to add to that because I think you did a great job identifying the teams. I think Minnesota is the team that I would pinpoint as a trade down candidate at 24. They only have what, four picks. I believe three or four picks. Quessie is someone who's known to be someone who likes to move around in the draft. It would surprise me if the Vikings pick at 24.

We got a super chat from Polar Jam. Who is the most set it and forget it pick? Is it Tyler Booker? He's up there. I would say that then this is the guard from Alabama. I think that, and honestly, I would be okay if the Eagles selected Tyler Booker at at 32. I think that this would be a player that, you know, he's a guard only.

And so, you know, that might be a little bit of a turnoff. But I think when you look at his dominance at the point of attack, what he does in the run game, he's a step in for Mackay Beckton and just keep the ball rolling right. you know, right off the bat. I would be fine with Tyler Booker at 32. And I think across the board, he is viewed as a player. Yeah, like step in, plug him in. He can start right now, A plus character, A plus power and physicality in the run game.

He can hold up well in past protection. Can you do all the same things athletically with him that you can do with other guards in the class? No, but I think you just know how to use a player like that. And for the Eagles, I think that would work really well. Yeah, my answer to that question is Malachi Stark. I think he's a said and forget it. I think he's a better player than Sidney Brown is. I think he's someone who comes in, starts day one, and it's a starter through his rookie contract.

But to the Tyler Booker point, one thing you and I discussed yesterday on the Yates on the Yet emergency show for Cam Jergens was that they're going to need a cost-controlled right guard when you have four players making top of the position money on the offensive line. So instead of having this revolving door, if you were to take someone like Tyler Booker, even if he's a guard only, not a tackle, you say, all right, for four years, fifth year with that fifth year option. But let's just look four years. Four years you have this cost controlled starting right guard. And that kind of fits the timeline of when you have these other guys under contract. It at least makes sense. And if Booker is the player you think he is, you don't have

to worry about that, about that offensive line for the next two or three seasons. Yeah. And also that would overlap with our late, well, Lane Johnson. But that's about the end of that contract. He's off the books. And you know, you have your potential future right tackle by that point in the fold. So I think all of that certainly comes into play. Julia, I think you, I think you You said you've got a few questions here. Oh, this is perfect. But, Zach, I think I might need your eyes to read some of these. My eyes aren't the ones to turn to here.

All right. So then here, I've got, here you go. Julie made it bigger. Okay, here. I can jump in here. Fran, do you think that Florida defensive tackle, Desmond Watson, is an actual draftable player. He is the biggest player in NFL draft history, I believe, in terms of sheer size.

Yeah, I'm pulling up the exact weight here. He came in 464. I would say in this defense. of tackle draft, I find that unlikely. I don't think he gets drafted at the end of the day. Fun story, I don't think he gets drafted. Number 21 on Florida, correct? So, yeah, when you watch him, you can't miss them.

It is a fun story. I thought Jordan Davis was probably the biggest human being I've ever seen. Jordan, myelada, the biggest human being I've ever seen. Desmond Watson would take the cake, no pun intended. I agree. Nice. That's pretty good. That's a fan of comedy.

I appreciate it. I like that. Go ahead. Jump for the next one here. Fran, when evaluating draft. F-picks, how much do you weigh the consensus versus your own rating? So when I'm doing my own personal evaluation, I absolutely only care about what my eyes see in terms of projecting them forward to the NFL. Now, I will then take information in

terms of the character and the medical and stuff like that. I will take that in account. Some people in the media won't take that in no account. They say, because I'm not going to get the full picture. And I get that. But to me, if I trust the people I'm talking to, then I trust the information and so that I will typically apply that into what I'm seeing but I will never say you know I watch a player and then you know five other people in the media that I'm friendly with are much higher on him oh I got I got to bump him up I got to try and match the consensus I will not do that but I certainly will take some of these the things I hear off the field and from the medical side and I will incorporate that into the final report at least

speaking of character Fran and ZB who has the best character you've done who is the best character guy you've done, who has the worst character? I won't do the worst character. But best character, hmm, also here's what I'll say. My favorite player I've talked to during the pre-draft process would actually be Notre Dame slot corner Jordan Clark, Ryan Clark's son. He was awesome.

I spent probably 20 minutes, 25 minutes with him down at the Shrine Bowl and just picked his brain about his background, but more so honestly like his teammates, guys they went up against, they had a long season. He was down there like days after they lost the national title game. And so credit to him for that. But a great, great kid. I really enjoyed my conversation with him. But honestly, there are a number of players that come to mind here.

J.J. Piggis, the defensive tackle from Ole Miss would certainly get in there. But I've heard also just, I mean, we hit on it. Tyler Booker's character, outstanding, Malachi Stark, J.T. Tuimolo, the Pass Rush from Ohio State. I've heard nothing but great character reviews there. There are a lot of guys where the reviews from people that have either visited with them or just, you know, being in the building, just rave character reviews across the board. Yeah, I care quite a bit about character,

and I'm honest to say that I don't think I can ascertain it in a draft press conference. You know, it's something I, it's someone I have to get to know. But of the people that I've spoken to, like in the league, or when I've asked who stood out, two names to add to what you said, is Egbuka, the wide receiver from Ohio State, and staying with Ohio State,

I've heard good things about Donovan Jackson as well, someone the Eagles brought in. That's a good one. Yeah, there's honestly, a lot of the guys the Eagles bring in, typically, they typically don't wade into the other side of it, for the most part. Let's go,

I've got one from Twitter here from Ben McArdle. Considering the defensive tackles on the roster now, is there a certain flavor or type of defensive tackle that makes sense for the Eagles? If so, what players in this draft match up well with what they would be looking for and which ones would not. Thank you.

So, Ben, I would say with the nature of the Vic Fangio scheme, that you can use guys with multiple skill sets. You know, Jordan Davis is very different from Milton Williams. It's very different from, you know, more Ojima, right? All these guys have, you know, some slightly different things with what allows them to win. And I think when you play multiple fronts, it allows to be versatile with the guys that you bring in. So I would, it would be low-hanging fruit for me to just start, like, honestly, like all these guys I think can find a role. It's a matter of trying to, what do you need most? I think they do need another upfield disruptor type

just to kind of replace the value loss with Milton Williams. Yeah, I can say if you're talking about a premium pick, so first round pick or second round pick, the players I'm drawn to are the athletic penetrating defensive tackles. So that would be the Walter Nolan type in this draft, maybe more so than the nose tackles, which I think you can find, or the space eating guys,

maybe who have less of the past rushing ability. I think you can find those guys more middle rounds and still be sufficient. if I'm taking a the defensive tackles who always jump out to me whether you know I've covered Fletcher Cox

I've covered Jalen Carter and Domok and Sue has kind of always been the standard bearer for me at that position those are guys who are those athletic penetrators and you find them

in the first round nice one I'll read this I think it's from Bo Wolf it says Brett C. Banffey this is a super chat thoughts on Joshua Simon he seems like great value

yeah I hope it's not both. I hope it's not both. Yeah, I mean, look, Joshua Simon, really athletic past catcher, had injury issues a little bit older. So, you know, I think that's that, that's kind of the knock there. But he certainly has some juice as one of those athletic move tight, tight ends. I think because of the age, the injury history, the depth that tight end in this class, I think he's most likely, you know, the highest round five, probably round six, round seven at the end of the day, which is when you look at his overall profile and projecting him forward to the NFL? Is this the PHLY drive show with Friend, Duff, or the South Carolina?

line at draft show, a friend Duffy, because we've gone Kyle Kinnard and Joshua Simon. So Shane Beamer, if you're watching, there's your analysis. There we go. And we've got, there's a few other Gamecocks. We haven't talked about Torricelli Simpkins yet. Maybe we can get into some of his tape as well. Let's get into a few more here. There's Christopher W.

What are your thoughts on Xavier Gilroy out of Arizona State? Not great production, but he plays much better than his stats and love getting him in the blocking game. And I think when you're looking at Gilroy, I haven't done a full report on him. I do agree that he certainly has some traits that you could project forward to the NFL. I just feel like, again, with the depth in this class, it's going to be tough for him to crack. I think he's more likely an undrafted free agent than as opposed to even a late round pick. Yeah, I think our PHNX crew would be higher on Gilroy than you might be.

I agree with that. Let's see, Fran, this is another one, Ben McArdell from the chat. You're on the clock at 64, Fran. Can you give us your speech for selecting Anthony Belton? Sell us on what he could be. Anthony Belton is the tackle from NC State. Big, strong, powerful mauler in the run game. To me, one of the most powerful offensive linemen in this class

in terms of his ability to move people off the ball. I love the value in the run game there. He can afford to play a little bit lower at times. He can get stuck playing a little bit high. But I think overall, I mean, this guy has been a rock solid pass protector. He's not as athletic as some of these other guys in the class. I think that goes without saying. But to me, it looks like a Mackay-Bectin type.

where I think he'd be fine kicking inside to guard in the Eagle scheme. And so if you're talking about a player that, hey, you know, you draft him on day two, he can compete right now at starting guard. And then, you know, maybe down the line in year three, year four of his contract, that's when you're talking about him potentially taking over for Lane Johnson.

I think that's a suitable path for Belton. And I think that would be a good enough reason to select him when you get to 64. Fair enough. Let's go to another one here. Let's see. You want to take one from the... Yeah, let's go with Renen Alvara,

which is pecking order for, What's more likely, trade down, trade up, trade for a veteran. I was just talking about this with Vince, you know, in our workspace here. So I would say, all right, so it was trade down, trade up, trade for a vet? Yes. In the first round, you think? Yes. I perceive this to be the first round.

All right. I would say trade for a vet. I would say that's like one turkey. Yeah. But we'll get to that. You answer the question. Okay. So for me, if we're doing turkeys, or if we're doing Peckness migrate, I would migrate that.

If we're doing turkeys, I would say that's one. I said 50 turkeys for trading down. I said 30 for staying put, 20 for trading up. That's how I put it to Vince out in the workspace. So, yeah, if we're doing that, that's how I would view it in likelihood. Yeah, I think they're more likely to trade down than trade up, but I think they're more likely to trade up that maybe some fans might think.

Right. Because I think that if there's a player they deem a top 20 player who falls into the mid-20s, it would behoove them to try to trade up and they have some sweeteners that they can attach to it. I don't think they trade a first round pick for a veteran. And we can get to this on the PHAY Eagle Show, not the draft show. But there was a name that ESPN's Adam Schefter brought up that I think would appeal to the Eagles. And that's Adafiowa from the Baltimore Ravens, Addafe Owe, rather, from the Baltimore Ravens.

He's playing on his fifth year option, had double-digit sax last year, has the athletic profile and, like, the ascending player that the Eagles typically like to look for. So when I saw Adam put that out there, I said that's a name I'm storing away. for the Eagles. Yeah, I mean, still young, right? I mean, he was, he was 21 when he was coming into the league. So all the athletic traits. And he hasn't been terrible in Baltimore. I was surprising that he was on that list. I think it's a matter of going into the fifth year. You have to give him a long-term deal and they have to decide if they want to do that. That would be a name, though. It would certainly intrigue me. We have another one from the chat. You want to hit on it? Sure. Let's go with Idiot Sandwich, Fran. I remember you being intrigued

by Omar Norman Lott earlier in the scouting process. How was your evaluation of his game evolved, still think there's juice there as a pass rusher. I do. I think that there are a cluster of high energy, first step explosiveness, just like a rolling ball of razor of razor blade defensive tackles, like three technique tackles in this class. To me, Omar Norman Lott is my favorite from that group. Like if we're discounting Walter Nullin, he's a first round player. But if you get into day two, early part of day three, I think you're saying that it's Omar Norman Lott. Let's see, who else would I put in that group? I would say, uh, Shamar Turner. from Texas A&M, T.J. Sanders from South Carolina.

Those would be the guys that I would probably put in, you'd maybe put like Ania's Peebles in there from Virginia Tech. Those would be the three or four guys that I would say like that, they fit into that mold. For me, Omar Norman Lott is the top of that heap. And I like Sanders. I like Shammar Turner. But Omar Norman Lott started his career at Arizona State,

moved over to Tennessee. Tennessee had one of the best defensive lines in college football this year. And from what I understand, they gave a lot of, a lot of those guys, a lot of NIL money, and part of their agreements with those players was a guaranteed dose of playing time. And so they were, it was a heavy platoon. Same thing with James Pierce Jr., where they did not play a lot of snaps. So he was given the ability to just play balls to the wall on every single play.

And you see that. He's explosive off the ball. A lot of similarities in my mind to what I saw from Milton Williams at Louisiana Tech. You see there with Norman Lott, can he get a little bit more consistent in the run game? Sure. That's one of the things I felt like was always underrated about Milton, is that Milton was really good in the run game. I think the Norman Lott not quite as good,

so that's why the grade is not as high as it was for Milton when he came out a few years ago. But I think he's got disruptive ability. I like the playmaker potential at the defensive tackle position. Yeah, I was watching Tennessee and couldn't take my eyes off the guy getting the sacks, and that was James Pierce, Jr. So I'll defer to you on Norman Lott. There was a question in there, Julia, regarding Gray Zabel,

as Fran's favorite player right there from Taylor Bolton. France saw your favorite player in the draft was Gray's Abel. Who else are your favorite guys in the draft? It's Omar and Norman Lott still up there. So yeah, people love Norman Lott. Yeah, he was a player that was very high for me, you know, on my board, and still is. So I would say, yeah, Norman Lott, he would certainly be in there because he's a guy I'm higher on than most. Honestly, like Chavon Revel, the corner from ECU is a player.

I know I'm a lot higher on than many people in space. I just look at his traits and what I saw from even just a limited sample. simple size, very talented player towards ACL at the end of September, would be a top 20 player, if not for the torn ACL. If I can just interject there, because you look at from a profile perspective, an older player from a smaller school coming off injury, and yet you're still someone you're high on. Yeah, I just think to me, like the film speaks very, very well to Chavon Revel.

And it's hard to find press man corners, like a legit, competitive, tritezy press man corners. There are guys, where you watch and you're like, yeah, they go. got the height weight speed, but I don't love the way they play. They're not super physical. They're not super competitive. And then some guys are really competitive, but I don't know how they run. You know, there are questions there. I don't know about the ball skills. To me, like Revel just checks all of these boxes. But to your point, not a lot of experience as a starter at a lower level of competition coming off an injury. That's worrisome. But everything else I love.

Jonathan Gannon or maybe just J.G. But I'm hoping it's Jonathan Gannon. It has a question for us here. Fran and Zach, if you are the commission and you could change something structural surrounding the draft, what would it be? While you think of it, I will give my answer. I love that. And this is, you know, I know people disagree with this, but I would have the draft before free agency.

And it's difficult with the NFL calendar, with the college calendar or the NFL calendar, but I like the way the NBA does it for a few reasons. I don't like when a veteran signs, then he gets drafted over. You know, you look at like Harrison Bryant, for instance, last year, signs with the Raiders, supposed to pair with Michael Mayer, then they go on and they draft Brock Bowers in the first round.

I think for veterans you make more informed decisions that way, I also think the purpose of free agency is to try to fill these blanks in your roster. So I would like the idea of a team addressing, you know, going into the draft, taking it kind of regardless of what their roster looks like. so it's a blank slate there. And then after the draft, you can go then and attack your different needs. And I think it would just be better sequentially,

but it's hard with the NFL calendar. All right. So I have a few follow-ups to this because I like this. Would you just switch free agency in the draft, like in the calendar? Like literally just take, so start of the league year is when the draft happens and then take free agency and bump it to the end of April? That's what I would do.

But it's just, you know, you wouldn't have the whole combine process. Now, maybe that would help teams. Yeah, right. That's what I mean, yeah. Yeah. So maybe you just have the combo. bind and then draft you don't have all the stuff leading up to it but uh it's harder for players too who you know if you're a free agent you then go three months without knowing your home right um but i i actually

think it would benefit both sides i know there's also like i mean we we know that there are other sports where they draft like during the season yeah you know there's that idea too do you just take the draft and just bump it all the way up but we know the NFL they want to go from labor day the president says i don't know if that's uh if that's necessarily in the cards uh what we got we got another one here from uh from the chat that we want to hit on if not i can dip into Yeah, now, from Smitty, so Devante, I appreciate you watching. What do you think of the UDFA strategy? Last year, they were big on futures.

So we largely sat out at UDFA. Will cash budget change the strategy? That's a good question. Yeah, I mean, we'll see exactly what the overall number is. Obviously, that is determined also by how many draft choices they make. Exactly. Depending on if they move up and down the board, how many picks they end up with, that's going to determine how many players they bring in after the draft.

one thing I think that the Eagles are always good at. Number one, I mean, they've been one of the most successful teams in football when it comes to the UDFAs and targeting guys that they like. T.J. Edwards, or Reed Blankenship, you know, Trey Burton, Corey Clement, you know, go down the list. They've been able to have a lot of success in that area. And I think part of it, honestly, is, you know, when they get to day three, I feel like it's more, hey, we want to take guys with starting upside.

We're going to find guys that have one unique trade or two unique traits. You're not going to get the total package typically when you get to day three, but find something that kind of sets them apart. But then when you get to undrafted free agency, that's where the read blanket ships. Good football player, but, oh, he just, you know, he didn't test well. He's older. T.J. Edwards, same deal. Hey, he's a linebacker around 4-8, but, you know, great instincts.

That's where you start to get more of those, you know, quote-unquote football guy type of players kind of slip through the cracks. And they've been really good at being able to target those type of players. So a few things here. First off, how he said they're going to add between 12 and 20 undrafted free agents. And he put it that way because he did not want. want to kind of give away how many picks they expect to have. Last year, you're right, they went with more futures contracts players.

I think last year because of, you know, the NIL crunch at the time, they thought there were fewer players coming back. I'm curious, or I'm sorry, a fewer players in the draft, and they thought this year there would be more. I'm fascinated to see kind of what their grades are this year. As far as the financial component to it, I don't think that will affect them. The Eagles do give out big bonuses relative to other team. and their calculation there is that if they make the right bets,

then the bonus money is offset by what you're paying for the practice squad. So as long as the guy's not a player who's completely out of the NFL on a practice squad or on your team, then you won't really get hurt by it. Because the bonus money is offset by the salary that they then get. This is a related question from Twitter, actually. Let me pull it up because it had something to do with the trade ammunition. There go. So Ralph Jankowicz asked on Twitter,

how he has eight picks to work with? How many players do you think he winds up drafting this year, given his propensity to trade? It could be more or less than eight. So let's set the over under ZB at eight and a half. Water gun to your pinky toe. What do you think, what do you think you take? Do you take the over or you take the under here?

Slate under. I'm going eight. I'm going seven or eight. What about you? I think I want to take the under as well, but not too far. I don't think it's going to be five players. I think that it will be seven or eight.

at the end of the day. Yeah, and then just to add to that, I know there's a sentiment that they have too many picks next year. It might be 11 or 12 picks depending upon kind of who you ask. And with that, the Eagles will always trade back into the future. So let's say they go into next year with 11 picks or 12 picks or 13 picks. They'll just trade for 2027 picks at that point. So I don't think that they ever go into it thinking that they have too many picks.

Idiot Sandwich just asked a two-part question. It has to do with the top 10 of the draft. So really quickly, I want to make sure I hit on that. So Fran, Jeff Howe at The Athletic just put out a mock draft with Josh Simmons going number 10 to the Chicago Bears. How likely is that kind of a big swing for Simmons given the upside? I know there's a lot of hype for Simmons game, but the injury is scaring off some teams, at least publicly or in rumors.

Could that all be part of smokescreen season hoping that he'll fall? Anytime you have a talented player that has the red flag there, it's a grab bag, man. To me, like, I'm pretty sure I mocked Simmons to Chicago at one point in the process. I think one of my first mock drafts I gave him there. I have not heard him that high. I think that he fits a lot of what Miami has searched for in the past. And Chris Greer, the GM there, he has taken big swings medically. He did so with Tua.

He did so with Jalen Phillips. He has not been afraid of those medical red flags in the past. I think he would make sense. But honestly, a lot of what I've heard with Simmons has been more getting into the 20s, even as far as 31. I had him going to 32 in my mock draft last week. So that's my projection of where I think he's going to end up going. I do think that he could go.

the talent says he could go that high. I don't think he goes 10 overall at the end of the day. If Josh Simmons did not have an injury, where would he go in the strike? I think he would probably go in the top 10, top 12. Well, then I think if your team in the top 10, top 12, you got to think that way. As long as you think he's backed by week one and that the injury is not debilitating, then I saw it with Land of Dickerson with the Eagles.

There's a difference between an injury that occurs in the pre-draft process, like Sidney Jones, where the guy has to sit out the year. And then an injury that occurs during, like Landon Dickerson's injury occurred at the SEC championship game. He was back starting for the Eagles by week, Yeah, I think when you're dealing with that torn Pateller, that's the one thing that's a little bit trickier. But for the most part, everything I've heard is that injury-wise, the teams aren't necessarily worried about the long-term effects there with Simmons. But that is something certainly to watch.

I do think, you know, I was talking with somebody yesterday who said the offensive linemen are going to go. There's talent at the top. And I could say after doing that seven-round mock draft, like I feel pretty good about this as well. There's talent at the top, but it dries up really fast. So I, you know, and that's honestly, it's part of the reason why I feel like I was higher on our, Ariante Ursery going in because I'm watching. I'm like, all right, like, yes, not a finished product. 6-6, 330 pounds, athletic, still raw, but guys like this go in the first round. Guys like this start in the NFL. And that's why I think ursery probably goes a little bit earlier than where

we kind of project, you know, certainly at this point in the process. Yeah, I mean, I think back even to the jail and rigor here, if we want to call it that, but where, you know, I was having discussions with Bo Wolf and Shield Capadia, will Justin Jefferson fall to the Eagles? And I said there, offensive linemen are going to go early in this draft because like you said, that's offensive linemen and quarterbacks don't typically drop. So if the team has conviction on either of those positions,

they tend to take them. Yeah, and the pass rushers, I think, in this class, so they're going to continue to rise as well. Let's take another question from the chat here. If we can take a look at our stash. Any guess as well, someone says who the Red Star players are for the Eagles.

That probably goes to the character things we were discussing. So here you go. Fran, who's your favorite player who you think will go undrafted? Oh, that's a good one. I would say the easy guess is probably, because obviously if I love the player, I can envision him getting drafted.

But I mean, the easy guess would be Willie Lampkin, the center from North Carolina, just because, I mean, at that size, and I'm pulling up the exact measurables again, just so I make sure that I share it. So this is the center from North Carolina. I actually played guard at North Carolina,

5, 10, and 3 quarters. So 510 and 6 eighths, that's shorter than any guard drafted in the last decade. 279 pounds of the combine. He was 270 pounds at the senior ball. That's lighter than any interior lineman drafted in the last decade. 31.5 inch arms. That's shorter arms than any offensive lineman drafted in the last decade. So you have all of those measurables.

But then he goes to the pro day and you think, all right, well, if a guy that's small, he's got to test like an elite athlete, right? Well, he goes 521 in the 40-yard dash. That's a below average number for anybody. That's not good for a guy that side. 176 in the 10, 10-yard split, same kind of deal. 4-7 in the short shuttle, below average number,

104 inches in the broad, below average number, 33 and a half-inch vert. So it didn't clear two feet in the vert. That's a really bad number. So for a guy that's that small, if you're going to make that exception, you want him to be excellent in those other areas. As much as I love the film,

that's something that's going to be, that's going to be really hard for Lampkin to overcome. It's like the Xavier Restrepo conversation we had with Coach Flynn yesterday on the show, where, you know, for a guy, when you're that small, and then you don't run well, that's typically something hard to overcome. So that would be my guest is Willie Lampkin.

There was a question in the chat for me, if I can answer that. Actually, I'm happy to. I know this is the show with Fran Duffy. But ZB from your vantage point as a reporter, how often do you think BS detectors go off for beats around the league when hearing information in the pre-draft crunch? I can tell you I've learned this the hard way. I'm going in the year 14 on the beat,

and the first three, four years on the beat, I fell for every piece of agent spin and team spin that one could imagine. And it was, I don't want to say detrimental, but it was detrimental to my coverage. I felt like I was putting out stuff that was just categorically, like, wrong. And I really learned through experience to, first off, not believe everything you hear,

but also bounce things off other people. Okay, I'm hearing this. Does this have validity? I'll give you one piece of example. I'll give you one example. I heard this was the 2013 or 14 draft. I had someone telling me, the Eagles love Cody Latimer. The Eagles love Cody Latimer.

Yeah. Receiver from Indiana. Yeah, receiver from Indiana. He was coming out there out there. He was coming off injury. Yeah, I was putting that out there. And then as it turned out, I later learned that Chip Kelly could not stand Cody Ladimer. I shouldn't say that. Chip Kelly was not a fan of Cody Latimer.

Maybe there was some differences of opinion in the building on Cody Latimer. but the point is that, you know, there's a lot of really hardworking people, whether it's scouts, whether it's coaches. But oftentimes, yeah, and you, and the person with his finger on the button or the people with their finger on the button, they're collecting information, but they're not necessarily distributing all the information. And I'll defer to you here, but I hear things a lot about, like, scouts who might not see their team's draft board until the day of the draft.

Yeah, I know, like that was the way that the Chargers operated for a long time. under previous regimes. And that is absolutely something of the case. And honestly, this really kind of connects well with something Colby Colby. Colby Colb Coles has just said in the chat. Anything this late is smoke, I would imagine. Actually, there's a little bit of both where some of the late information you get is the best actionable info and then sometimes depending on the team.

So that's why, you know, for me the last few years, you know, even though like this is my first time covering the draft publicly, I've been, you know, going through the paces of this over the last several years. And what I have found is, you know, number one, like, I don't know if you do this. I track, like, what people tell me. And so, like, over the years, I can say, like, okay, like, now people typically, it's not every single thing that everybody gets is not true. We know this, right?

But some teams, there are some people in the media or some, you know, scouts with a team that, you know, maybe, you know, they're a pro scout and they cover the raiders or the chargers. They cover the AFC West, right? So maybe they are more tied in with what those teams are doing, as opposed to, you know, teams in their own division, right? And so you just start to love, all right, you know what, this person that I talk to, they've got a good bead on this coach, this GM, or this franchise. And so you start, but there are absolutely trends where some teams,

some of the late information is good. And there are some teams where it's like, yeah, anything that comes out late, don't believe it. You got to go with the stuff that came out in January, February. Yeah, my rule of thumb in the past decade is I'm a, you know, I like to think that I'm a nice guy and treat people with respect. But I don't think anyone in the NFL is waking up and saying, how can I help Zach Berman's career today?

So typically you try to say, all right, what's the motivation for him or her to tell me this information? Idiot Sandwich said, let's get frown on Survivor. No, let's get frown on Big Brother. We are a big brother household in the Duffy House for that reason. Let's see. I know we've got a few more here on Twitter

and in the chat as well. So we already addressed the corner from ECU. Yeah, John Revell. The post-draffrey agency, or I'm sorry, the post-draft agency plan. We'll discuss that on the PHAY Eagles show. We want to use that on the draft show. Malachi Stark's question here.

Any chance Malachi Stark falls in the mid-20s and how he trades up? I'll defer to you on the draft range. But as I said, I don't think the Eagles are trading up for our safety. Yeah. I do think that there's a chance that Starks is on the board at 32. I do think there's a chance that he's not even the best player on the board for the Eagles at 32. We outlined how, you know, the scenario where that could happen.

I just think when you are, there was the question earlier about Tyler Warren and say like, oh, tight ends typically fall. Safety's typically go a little bit further than we expect. I remember when Derwin James was coming out. He was like, oh, this guy's locked for the top 10. Kyle Hamilton locked for the top 10. Both guys ended up going between 14 and 20, right? And so I think when you're looking at these guys now with Emin Wari, who to me is a top 10, top 15

player in this draft, just based purely off of tape and the grade, same thing with Malachi Starks. Both guys have, you know, some warts in their game alongside the position that they play that could cause them the drop to the back half of round one. Now the question is, is, you know, which teams are okay with swallowing that pill and taking a player at a position that, you know, isn't perceived to be a prime position in the NFL and which teams aren't. And I think when you're looking at both, I could make cases for either. I think that MMO could go as high as 15 to the Atlanta Falcons. I could see him falling out of the round altogether. I do think that Washington would make a lot of sense, you know, picking at 29, but there are a number of teams there in between that could potentially take him and could not. Obviously, everyone is giving Malachi Starks to Baltimore. Baltimore could decide that they're going, especially if they're going to trade O'Dafi O'Way, that they're going to go with a pass rusher like Donovan Azaraku or any of those number of players. So it could be that he's on the board at 32 and the Eagles decide to pass as well. Let's go to the one from Christopher W here because he wants to know how well Fran Duffy or Howley Roseman know the sugar

bears. And what I mean by that is the Eagles have spoken with both David Walker and Shundrick Powell from Central Arkansas. If the Eagles get them both, would Central Arkansas become the new Georgia? And Central Arkansas, of course, is the sugar bears. How do you know that they are the sugar bears? Because I don't know that the sugar bears. Yeah, I have a thing for college nicknames. So, yeah.

Where does that rank on the college nickname scale? That's got to be up there. That's up there. That's up there. Who's the banana slugs? From Santa Cruz, UC Santa Cruz. I can go on. Give me a college.

And I'll give you a nickname. Yeah. You know, the Hamilton Continentals. You like that onward march for the buff and blue. We all know about the main black bears, of course. The main black bears, you can go throughout the state of Maine. You got the Bates Bobcats, I believe they are. You know, you got, yeah.

All right. Well, David Walker, I can't speak to the other player. I had not done him, but I did do David Walker back in the fall. Transferred from Southern Arkansas. You got a Southern Arkansas mascot? I don't have a Southern Arkansas mascot. I don't have a Southern Arkansas. Yeah, that's a tough one.

But he was, so that's a D2 level. Then they transferred up to the FCS level to Central Arkansas. Six one. They are the mule riders. I should have gotten that. The mule riders. Sugar bears are better, though. Sugar bears are better.

David Walker, compact frame, 6-1, under 32-inch arms. But he's, I mean, he's over 260 pounds. So he's a densely built pass rusher. The production is outrageous. 10 and a half sacks last year, 23 TFLs, the year before 18 TFLs and 8.5 sacks. You're talking about a guy that's good, decorate he was a buck buchanan award finalist which is the defensive player of the year at the

d2 level uh in 22 so we're talking like years and years and years of big time production from david walker i would say like the the best team on their schedule this year was arkansas state i watched him against that he was solid usually what you want when you're watching fcs players is all right let me find the the game against the fbs school what did they look like in that game when i watched gray zabel against colorado he stood out he was awesome didn't look like he missed a beat he looked like he belonged. With David Walker, it's not that it was bad, but I thought it was just okay. And then he goes to the Senior Bowl, and I thought he was okay. He didn't really move the needle for me in either one of those two environments. So for me, I do see, you know, certainly a developmental

rusher. I think there's something there to work with. I have a draftable grade on him. I think he could be a backup, but nothing where he necessarily moved the needle for me. He tested okay at the combine. But again, it was just kind of like okay across the board. Production, though, is outstanding. Arkansas State, by the way, that the Red Wolves. I believe that's where Hugh Freeze used to coach. Correct. Let's see what else we got here. Let's keep rolling down. Now, from the main list, Joey, if we can.

We got for Fran and ZB, do you watch other mock analysts on YouTube in your spare time? Who are some of your favorite analysts whose content you consume? First off, I'm going to say that Fran Duffy is the best draft analyst in the business. I think he's showing that this year because I said I haven't been on the select few that have had access to Fran's work in the past. I've only seen what was on felloffeagles.com where he wasn't able to tell kind of the full evaluations. I've been blown away by Fran's work. I'll defer to Fran here, but I don't want to put him in a tough spot.

Dane Bruegler, my former colleague at the Athletic, I think, does a terrific job. You know, I think, you know, there's a handful of analysts. Daniel Jeremiah was in the business. He worked for the Eagles. He does the work. I'm always partial. He's not a draft analyst anymore. I spent a good amount of time with Mike Mayock in the past.

I went to breakfast with him before the 2017 draft, and I was always just blown away by the work that Mike put in. Yeah, and Mike is still watching. He's still grinding through a lot of this film, doing a lot of work behind the scenes. So he's someone I always enjoy, honestly, and someone that I have leaned on in the past. I mean, he used to call the Eagles preseason games,

and so he and I would work together over the summer and just being able to pick his brain over the course of my career about process and even stuff like when it didn't I'm just like scouting players. Mike is a great resource. Greg CoSell, obviously, someone I'm extremely close with. And I've always appreciated the way that he views things. You mentioned Dane.

I think Dane is the best in the business when it comes to like this specific, when it comes to like draft evaluations and projections and write-ups. I mean, the beast is outstanding, a piece of work. So, you know, I would say that those guys are at the top of the list for me. Also, shout out to Ben Fennell. He does a great job too. And back when Paul Domovich, when Paul Domilich was at the Daily News, Ben Fennell used to do the help each year.

And I... Once Mike got hired, once May I got hired by the Raiders. Exactly. And I thought Ben did a terrific job. I agree. Yeah, so I would say those would be the top of the list for me. Let's go from J.G again. Vic mentioned he likes to dress five interior defensive linemen, presumably two nose tackle shades and three, three techs.

Instead of having Booker and an odd nose tackle backup, is there more of a need than a three tech or is the position too valuable? Yeah, I think that the fact that they felt comfortable with Booker in that role last year, I mean, to me, like Booker, I remember watching him at Stanford. I thought that this guy's got the ability to be kind of a combo three technique or no shade. And I like, he had the explosive traits to be that quality, you know, gap, gap penetrator, upfield kind of defensive linemen. So I think he's got that skill set, but he's been so stout and really good with his hands.

I think he holds up well as a no shade as well. And so that's why he made the team this year. That's why he made the 53. That's why he stuck over the course of the fall. So I don't think that they need to force it, but that's it. I don't think that he's keeping you from drafting somebody either. Who's your favorite nose tackle outside of, you know, like Ty Leake Williams? Beyond Ty Leak Williams, that's a good question.

So I would say we're going purely based off of like the tools and the ability. It would probably be Alfred Collins from Texas. I don't think that he's put it all together yet. I think there's a little bit of boom bust there. But this was a guy that's got athletic traits. You know, I've been hearing about him since the 2021 season when he's, first got there. And back then, he was more of the upfield penetrating type defensive line. And over the course of his career, all he's done has gotten bigger and bigger and

bigger. Some people will say like it's a, it's bad weight. But honestly, like, when I'm watching him, this guy is so stout. He's so violent with his hand. So I think that while he's got some dancing bear qualities, I think that he's just so stout and violent that he holds up well as an interior presence on the defensive line. I, I will put Cameron Jackson as the guy that I think can play the spot. And then, uh, If Dion Walker's watching, you know you have a spot in my heart, Dion. Idiot Sandwich has two good questions here. One here, Fran, who was a player from previous years

that you can still remember how intense the debate would get with other draft analysts? Oof, that's a good one. Hmm. I can say someone Fran was absolutely right on. That was Tredavius White. Goes at, what, 25 overall, I believe. And was he your top corner that year?

He was my, he was up there. Yes, he was the 2017. draft. So whenever you have someone going 25 overall who you're that high on and he turns into you know a pro ball, all pro caliper player before the injury, that's that stands out. When you're thinking of that, I'm just going to address another idiot sandwich question here because this was probably more my territory, which is can you share any insight about how security personnel like Big Dom would be involved in the team's draft process? Dom is instrumental here and, you know, Dom is someone who, first off, he's been in the organization for, you know, 20 plus years.

He's someone that they trust. One thing that's unique about Dom is that, you know, I know he's become a cult figure in Philly, but it's not just kind of like the persona. Like he puts into work. He's earned the trust of the players. He's terrific, Dom at, like, yeah, at cutting to the heart of the manner of really knowing, like, all right, is this guy, has this guy just screwed up or is this guy a bad person? And like what can you tolerate what's real, what's not real.

But what I was saying is the unique thing about Dom is that he's a one-man crew, okay? And there are a handful of teams that kind of do it with, they have a team in place, right? So there's the security chief with the security chief as multiple people working with him. Dom's a one-man crew, and I think he likes it that way. It's a way of kind of managing the information in and out. But he does a superb job. And I can say this, like the Eagles are not taking a player who, Dom does not sign off on.

Yeah, I think that's all of that is spot on. And honestly, like, I think people know this. Like one of the most unique individuals in the end, in all of sports, if we're, we're being up front of out. In all of sports, Big Dom is up there. As far as the original question in terms of the guys that, you know, basically I just pulled up like a couple of, a couple of recent rankings. Patrick Rahms is certainly a big one.

You know, he was a player coming out. And honestly, I was on the wrong side of this where I, I remember watching Mahomes and saying, like, armed talent, absolutely there. He's so accurate, but like, there's no, like the way that he plays just does not translate. And he went to a great situation, obviously, where he was able to kind of sit back and, you know, and learn from Andy Reid, from Alex Smith as a rookie. And then it's just been playing, obviously has been turned into one of the best quarterbacks ever. But he was a guy that I was down on, you know, coming into the draft, but he was a highly

debated player. Dalvin Cook was very highly debated. That same season, you know, coming out. I ended up pulling up 2017 just because that was. a you know those the Trudevius white year. Solomon Thomas was hotly debated. He ended up going number two that season, but he was kind of a combo,

defensive end defensive tackle. What is he? I had faith in his ability to translate, but not everybody did. And obviously he has not worked out. One player that was on the other side of that was Taco Charlton. I was lower on Taco Charlton. I had a backup grade on him.

And he turned into basically a reserve player for over the course of his career. So that would be another one that kind of comes to mind to answer that initial question. I'll say I'll defer the draft debates to Fran, but in my time kind of covering the draft, actually Mahomes was someone I was high on. I went to watch a Texas Tech TCU game before an Eagles Cowboys game one year, and I was blown away by Mahomes in person, right?

Now, he obviously went to, Andy Reid, and that certainly helped, but I saw that. The player I was dead wrong on, and Bow makes fun of me about this, and I'm still kind of holding a hope that this might work out as Isaiah Simmons. I thought you were going to go Kyle Pitts. Okay, yeah, Kyle Pitts, too. What are you holding up? I didn't Isaiah Simmons. I don't even run team right now.

I think he took a visit to the Packers. Okay, good. Isaiah Simmons was, I just thought that, you know, there was too much of obsession about the position. I just thought you're just a really good football player, and I was wrong on that. Kyle Pitts was a thousand-yard receiver in his first year. I think injuries affected him in a year two.

I agree with that. But I still really like that. I don't think. think I was wrong on the prospect. I think that was more injury related. I would imagine Isaiah Simmons, though, I was just dead wrong on. Yeah, I think the big thing is, like, I am more in your camp in terms of not giving up on pits. And I definitely, I was, I was high on him coming out. The idea of taking him ahead of Chase and Sewell, that's the big thing there. Brooke way, I want to do I want to answer this question for a media sandwich as well, Fran, do you

think player comparisons have any value in the pro scouting process, or are they more, more so a tool for mainstream draft fans and readers. This is a hotly debated thing with team. I shouldn't say within teams, but with people that you talk to, some scouts and coaches you talk to are like, don't give me comparisons. Every player is different, yada, yada, yada. And then some, it is a very constructive tool. And it is a way where it's not even just like old school versus new schools.

There are some people that, you know, that are young and coming up are like, yeah, I don't want to hear anything about comps. And then some people that are your old crusty scouts and coaches are like, yeah, tell me what this player is like. that gives me a picture and a starting point of someone that you can compare him to. I will say, like, the longer you do it, the more the, the longer you're evaluating players, the wider catalog of players that you have. And so, and also, like, if I'm watching a player that's a mid-round pick and I'm comparing him to

Ladanian Tomlinson, that's silly, right? But you're comparing him, you know, I know what we were talking, my comparison for, for the running back from Georgia this year. I kind of think of his name. Trevor ETN, Trevor ETN, thank you. My comparison for him is Wendell Smallwood. And it's like, yeah, like I kind of think that he's a day three running back and help you in the past game. Probably never a starter, probably even never like an ideal number two.

But I think that he's got the ability to kind of help you on third down as a kind of a rotational player. That's a Wendell Smallwood's their similar kind of frame. I'm not going to compare him to Alvin Kamara because that's not how I view him, right? So just trying to find as many of those ways, as many of those descriptors, I think that that deep role of that kind of helps there. The reason I wasn't listening to Fran there and I was looking at my. computer screen is because I was pulling up a Nick Siriani quote from last week to help answer this question. And because you said different people do this differently.

This is from Nick Seriani quote. I think of one of great tools that Howie always says is who does this guy remind you of. So one thing that Howie does ask in the draft room is who does this guy remind you of? Yeah, I love that. I think that again, it just gives you like an instant glimpse of, okay, there's something. And because the other big thing too, again, because it goes back to the Eagles. day three strategy, right?

Where it's where we're going to find guys that have those traits. So if you're talking about a day three player, you know, and Walter Nolan's not a day three player, but when I'm watching Walter Nol, there's like, oh, man, like there's a flash where he looks like Jalen Carter. And it's the same thing where if you're watching a guy that's going to go on day three and say, oh, you know what, there's a flash. Who was I watching? The Auburn Wide Receiver, former Penn State kid, Keandre Lambert Smith, okay?

I'm watching him and there's a quick inbreaker where it's like a slant route, catch, run, makes the first man miss and he slashes through the defense. I'm like, man, there's like a flash of Brandon Ayuk there. He looks like, and he's been built very similarly, and just the way he moves, the way he's able to kind of cut through the middle of the field. Now, I'm not saying that he's Brandon Ayuk, but there are flashes there of what Brandon Ayuk brings to the table. And so if you're the Eagles and someone, if Howie Roseman were to ask me, I'm the southeast scout. And I say, yeah, like he's probably a mid-round pick. He's probably a backup, a guy that can develop into being a starter, but there are flashes of Brandon Ayuk with his ability to cut.

Now that kind of gives everybody a little bit of a picture of the type of player, the archetype of player that we're discussing. If, and thanks to everyone watching on Fast Here. Do we go in overtime on this show? I think so. We are in overtime. The gusto there. It was better. It was proven from yesterday.

If I can ask a question here, if I can submit a mail-back question, this is one I'm fascinated about and I always think about and I ask people in the league and I want to ask you, what's your view of kind of scouts first coaches here and from two perspectives? The first perspective is scouts spend a lot more time doing. doing this. They have a lot more research on this. But do you think there can overbee, there can sometimes be over analysis and that the person who comes in and it's like, yeah, this guy can't play or this guy can play. He has, has validity. And the other part too is, how much do you think it's just like it's the coach's job, just to take the player and

make them work where the scouts have to draft the player who the coach is going to want to coach up? I think that in a perfect world, but first of all, everyone wants to get to consensus, there is very rarely consensus. It is very hard to get aware everybody's on the same page and everybody universally loves a player. That's just very hard. When you have this many voices, it's very hard to get to that point. So that said, I do think it is incumbent on the general manager and the scouting staff to deliver players to the coaches that they're excited about, right, that they have juice for. So I do think that that's the first thing that comes to mind there. I think that it used to be that people would talk about, it kind of became tropey in my mind where

was like, oh, like the coach just wants guys that can play. The scouts only won players with traits and that's that. I think that it can cut both ways. There are times where, you know, I've heard opinions from coaches where they see a guy with traits. I'm like, man, like, yeah, let me get my hands on him and I can coach him up. Whereas scouts are like, yeah, like, I know he's got traits, but, you know, like, I've watched X amount of games of this guy and I just don't, I don't see it.

You know, you talk about like Shamar Stewart. You know, some scouts are lower on Shamar Stewart than you would think because you would think like, oh, like, scouts are excited about the length and the explosiveness. will it cuts the other way where there are a lot of coaches are like, oh man, like let me get with this guy and he's going to be a terror in our scheme. And so I would say that you want healthy debate, you want healthy argument. That's good for everybody. You do want to make sure that there's some kind of agreement there.

The way that I in conversations I've had with most teams, I haven't talked with every team about this, but most conversations I've had on this topic, if you can't come to at least some kind of like agreeable moment, especially for first round picks, he's probably not going to be in consideration. If you get to the point where it's just like, yeah, we are not going to see eye to eye on this player.

You're probably moving on and just we're not even, he's going to be on the board, but he's unlikely to be selected by our team. Yeah, I always admire the Mike Tom in the interview on the pivot when he's like, coaches have to embrace coaching, right? By nature, you're not getting a guy who's a finished product. Like it's not, and Shield Capadia,

my former colleague, our, our, our friend always talks about this. Like it's, it's not the college coach's job to get him ready to play for you. Like, like the college coach is trying to win games has developed the player.

It's your job to coach him up. So I think sometimes coaches kind of take that excuse like, oh, this guy's, you know, this guy's not coached up for our schemes. Like, it's your job to coach him. That's what you're there for.

Don't run away from coaching. But the problem then becomes like, for certain positions, that's like, all right, like, hey, like if we got to teach this guy how to come out of a three-point stance or he's got to put his hand in the ground

for, as an offensive line. in or run routes as a receiver like that's all well and good but if you're a quarterback who's never been taught to like read coverage at all uh and now you have to come into the NFL and you don't know the difference between cover three and cover four and cover six that's that's that's tough for for offensive coaches say okay like we can get this guy ready by year two even uh so that's that's where it can get a little bit dicey i know we've got a a super chat as well um mad deo uh said late to the show uh did you guys do or did you do conyer

the tight end from Texas Tech. We have not done them yet in the show. I finally have gotten through the Jalen Conyer tape. Saw him at the Shrine Bowl, loved him, saw him at the Combine. I thought he was outstanding. This is a big tight end from Texas Tech. He has bounced around. He's been at three different schools, Oklahoma, Arizona State, now finally at Texas Tech.

He was dabbling as a quarterback last year at Arizona State in 2023, moved to Texas Tech this summer or the last summer and into this fall. He's a 260-pound move. tight end, really good hands. The route running can clean up. He's still a little bit of a work in progress there, but good flashes. Honestly, I thought the route running was a lot better in the postseason

at the shrine bowl and at the combine workout than what I saw on film. But he catches everything, really, really smooth at the catch point. He can create with the ball in his hands. I think there's a development of player there. He reminded me of Moe Alley Cox. Moley Cox was a college basketball player. Yeah, out of VCU. Who ended up going on drafted.

I think Conyers goes day three. I'll be fascinated to see how high he goes because I think the receiving upside is high. Meddy, if you're from Lubbock, there was a college coach one time who I was asking about Texas Tech and he said Lubbock is best in your rearview mirror. That's what I always think about with Texas Tech.

That's a good one. I think did I see a couple other super chats in there? I think we hit those chat. Yeah, we hit those super chats. Okay, we hit those already. Beautiful. All right. Any other ones we want to hit here?

Because I know we're going live in an hour. I like the pace of your show, man. This is awesome. We're flying. Yeah. We got through a lot of questions. It's fun. We got, yeah, I can do this every day.

This is the quickest 56 minutes of my month. Yeah, it's, look, we got through a lot. I'm going to be honest, we're going to do the show. We have the Eagles show at 2 o'clock. We talked about it earlier. We're going to do the mock draft back and forth. I've had so many conversations just in the last 36 hours about the top 15, top 20 of this draft. Some people are like, hey, like, I think that, you know,

I have an idea of what the Minnesota Vikings are doing at 24. or this. It's going to be a brain dump. Because honestly, am I on the show? I don't even know if I'm on the show tomorrow. I believe you are, but if you want to take the day, we can get home. We can get a, we can get, yeah.

I got to find a spot to dump all this information. So yeah, we're going to be doing that at 2 o'clock. Make sure you join us for the mock draft episode. So that is Fran Duffy, the All-City NFL draft analyst, the top draft analyst in the business. You make sure you should be a diehard by now. You get Fran's draft guide. Fran will be on our show,

when I say our show, the P HLY Eagle Show, he'll be on the PHNX Cardinal show, the CHGO Bear show, the DLOS Cowboy Show, the DNVR Bronco show. Anywhere you turn on the All-City Network, you will find Fran Duffy,

you will find his work on all-PHLY.com. We will be back to two of us at 2 p.m. for the P.HLY Eagle Show. Until then, you are watching the H-L-Y draft. show with Fran Duffy. I'm Zach Berman. That's Friend Duffy. That's Julia Hoff. Thank you for watching.