PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Brian Dawkins Talks A.J. Brown’s Imminent Departure, Jalen Hurts’ Leadership | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

With the window for the Eagles to trade A.J. Brown to the New England Patriots opening this afternoon and Jalen Hurts and Co. ready to take the field once again for OTAs, Bo Wulf and EJ Smith are joined by a handful of special guests including Brian Dawkins live from Penn Oaks Golf Club for the Eagles great’s charity golf outing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast on a beautiful Monday afternoon. Live from the Xfinity Mobile studio here at beautiful Penn Oaks Golf Club for the Brian Dawkins charity golf event for the Brian Dawkins Impact Foundation presented by our friends at Ashley, Bo Wolf and E.J. Smith. And E.J., we got a big newsday happening. Samori Tori. I don't think Samori Tori is definitely necessarily going to make the first block of the show. Would you like seconds? Would you like Samori Tori? You've been holding on to that for hours. No, I haven't. It just occurred to me. Let's get into the big takeaway presented by our friends at Exfinity because it is a big one here.

We all expected. Maybe today is the A.J. Brown Trade Day. That is not the bit of NFL fireworks that have come out yet. Instead, Miles Garrett has been. traded, according to reports, to the Los Angeles Rams in exchange for Jared Verst, a first round pick in 2027, and more compensation that has not yet been reported. So what do you make of it, E.J., from an Eagles perspective? I mean, the Rams got significantly better. Jared Verst is a really good player, but Miles Garrett might be the best or one of the best

players in the NFL. Honestly, my initial reaction was wondering what the Eagles offer was to the Cleveland Browns because Miles Garrett is exactly the type of player that Howie Roseman likes to acquire in these types of trades. We always talk about, you know, the Eagles, howie Rosen wants to add premium talent, not subtract premium talent. Miles Garrett is as premium as it comes. So it's a daunting day, honestly, you know, we are expecting the Eagles to get worse in the next 48 hours with an AJ Brown trade and the Rams just got better. I mean, I would be shocked if Howie was not involved in these conversations. Yes, I agree. I think we both agree that that was the case. What is your guess?

What do you think the proxy would be? I think it would have been Jalen Carter. Yeah. A first round pick, probably a future first round pick. Although the Eagles don't necessarily place as much of a premium on it, but maybe you feel like the 2028 first round pick you're expecting in the AJ Brown trade. Maybe you offset that by trading your own first round pick that season. From there.

So would you just think about it. Would you trade A.J. Brown and J.L. Carter for Miles Garrett. I would. I would do that. I would not. Well, sorry. I mean, assuming that you, knowing that you're losing. losing AJ. So with Jonathan Gernard already here, I think that's probably the hang-up. That's probably why the Eagles weren't the highest bidder in the sweepstakes. If Jonathan Grodd weren't here,

I would do that in a heartbeat. Miles Garrett's really good. You know, I saw, like, I put this out on social media. Like, I think the Eagles offer would have been Jalen Carter at a first, maybe more, depending on what comes out, maybe a mid-round pick. To me, like, people were like, oh, I wouldn't trade Jalen Carter for Miles Garrett. Miles Garrett is awesome. And I know, like, people will point to the age, but like it's not like I want to be delicate here he's been on one winning team in his career I think that is a reflection of the teams he's been on more than anything else saying like you know I I don't want to I want to trade carefully because Jalen Carter's an awesome player as well but like I don't think that there's any guarantee that Jalen Carter is going to have more sacks on the next three years

in Miles Garrett I think Miles Garrett is an insanely there's no way that he will yeah but that's what I'm saying you know I'm not trying to like you know like downplay Jalen Carter's impact but I think if the Jonathan Gernard trade hadn't happened, the Eagles would have been the highest bidder in this. Well, I don't know if that's true. I also think you have to imagine that the Eagles checked in on this availability and made the Jonathan Garnard trade knowing that they probably weren't going to get Miles Garrett. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, and it's how he's job to know what Miles Garrett goes for. I'll be honest. I would be surprised, though. It was a little lower than I thought it was going to be for Miles Garrett. Really? Yeah, what do you think Jared Vers is worth? Two ones? Something like that?

Three ones? One and a two? I guess it speaks more to the Browns, like, you know, misplaying this situation. I don't know. I think you're underselling Jared VERS is a very good player. Oh, Jared Verst is a very good player, but Miles Garrett is in a tier of his own. I don't know, man. I think that's a lot that they're getting.

It's a good amount. Now, you could argue you're a little bit surprised. that you would make the trade for a 2027 pick from a team that now becomes a Super Bowl favorite? Yeah, I think I'm mostly, I think I'm comparing it to what I would have expected Miles Garrett to go for six months ago. I think that's fair to say. Like, it's, the market has changed for him because of the fact that the Browns were, they probably waited too long to say like we're going to cut bait here. Like, why, why, why, why, why have Miles Garrett for the second half of last season? Yeah, but wouldn't you rather have, wouldn't you rather have Jared verse and a one than two,

ones? Sure. Yeah, that's fair. Right? I'm probably undervaluing what Jared Verst would go for, because if you're talking about Jalen Carter, it probably is two ones. Do you think that you can breed this as the Browns choosing Jaredverse over Jalen Carter? I'm not sure, because again, I don't know if the Eagles were going that far into this trade after the Jonathan Gerdardt deal. Now, if we were talking about it in March, then yeah, I would think that that was the reading. I know, like, you know, the Browns have Mason Graham, so maybe that's a reason, but to me, it's like you can have multiple. You can have multiple. You can have multiple. pre-Mason Graham.

The Eagles have some more Tori. Like, give me a break. Well, listen, I didn't say I was making that argument. I was just saying that is an argument that you could make. Mason Graham. Stinko de Mayo. All right.

It's a huge deal. Yeah, absolutely. It's also, you know, as you say, if we're expecting this AJ trade to happen, whether it's today or later this week, the Eagles are going to get worse on paper as the Rams now look like, would you call them their favorites in the

MC? You have to. Over their Seahawks. Yeah, I know that they had like the unease of drafting Ty Simpson in the first round of the draft and they didn't necessarily push all their chips into the middle of the table because of that although you've seen like I've also seen the argument since they drafted Ty Simpson they're more comfortable using future first round picks to push their chips in this year because they have a quarterback that they view as the quarterback of the future. To me, the Rams are the favorite in the NFC. I know Eagles fans might not want to hear that but I do.

I think as good of a player is Jared versus you add Miles Garrett to a defense that already had, already added Trent McDuffie this offseason. I mean, the Rams are like they are, at least on paper. It's a risky, though. Yeah, I mean, part of the reason they can do these things is they are very good at player development and, you know, hitting on their mid-round picks. Who knows how sustainable that is, but it's why they're able to do these things. Yeah, I think, I mean, the Rams look very good on paper, but it is a, it is a,

star-laden roster, star-reliant roster and, you know, one or two injuries is going to, it could crumble them. Yeah, they're built similarly to the Eagles in that they are like the Stars and Scrubs model where it's like you're not going to have any players in the middle class of the salary cap. You got a lot of guys at the top. I think the Eagles roster is much deeper, much in terms of across the starting line. You take the Rams.

Actually, that's probably a fun exercise. Would you rather the Rams best five players now? I think you would take the Rams best five players now? I think you would take the Rams best. Yeah. And then I, but I think you would take the Eagles best 15. Yeah. Yeah, but they have pushed it.

They have pushed the Eagles roster building philosophy to a further degree. You know what I mean? I don't think that they are similar philosophies. Well, I mean, they're both. They don't dwell in the middle class of the NFL. That's what I mean. It's like they have a top range at their roster and then they have to figure out how to compensate for that top range.

I think that's how they're similar. I think the, I think the focus on the Eagles not caring about the, not wanting the middle class of the... I think that's an overstated concept. It's... It is a result of the way that their roster has been built and they have all these young guys on similar timelines. It doesn't mean to me that they are...

You know, they signed Reek Willem. Rick Wollum is the middle class. Yeah, I mean... But they have avoided that more than most teams. I mean, that's like... Yeah, but I think that is just a result of the fact that they have been able to get stars and draft well. Yeah, but those two things like, yeah,

but that's the formula is to get stars and draft well to make sure you can compensate for it. We're sort of saying the same thing. Sure. We do that a lot. I don't think that the Eagles are, it's not a philosophical tenant that we don't want to have middle class players.

There are still, there are still marginal value to be gained there if you sign the right player. Sure. Yeah, but I do think that, again, they're built similarly in that way. They are built as top heavy rosters. Howie Roseman cares so much more

about draft picks than the Rams do. Yeah. I don't disagree. They don't have similar philosophies. they have similar philosophies in that their top heavy roster. They're just star efforts. That's the only thing that's similar.

Yes. Okay. All right, let's close the book on the big takeaway. I don't know why we are disagreeing about this, but I blame E.J. Oh, that's what a surprise. The Rams have established themselves as NFL favorites.

So too has another team in the N.C. today, E.J. And that is, of course, the New York football and Giants who have created one of the most impressive days of transactions in NFL history. Okay. Signing Odell Beckham, Braxton Barrios, and Juju Smith-Schuster. Wow!

I mean, they got Rick Wullen, Cooper DeGine, and Coyneye Mitchell. That's not enough. Yeah. That's not enough to handle that wide receiver crew. What is going on there? Did Malik neighbors die? That's what I was about to ask. Something.

Do you see the clip of Malik neighbors run into first base? No. It was, it didn't look good. It did not look good. so. Braxton, Berrios. It's funny. Like, your team adds, three players, and you're just like, oh, no.

What is this? It's also very funny because the Odell thing is like, okay, you know, give, it's a nice, you know, full circle. This is sort of fan service. It's fine. But he doesn't even get his shine because it's like, oh, he's also, he's part of the group with juju. Yeah, it's an interesting organization, you know.

I'm sure everybody watching right now is grateful that they don't root for that team. Yeah. I mean, God. All right. Let's take a break. We'll come back on the other side. We'll get into A.J. Brown. Is it happening today? What else is going on here at Penn Oaks

for the Brian Dawkins' charity golf event? Stay with us. Here at the Dawkins event. Got some Bob Marley playing. Timeless. You know what else could be timeless? The price of your internet. That's right. I'm talking about our friends at X-Fee.

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That's philly sportstrips.com. Tell them P.H.L.Y. S.O.Y. Eagles podcast. Bowen E.J. I just saw an interesting report about the Giants. They were going to sign Odell and Juju and Jackson Dart burst into the GM's office and said, no way, you better add another white guy if you're going to add those two guys. I've got no comment on that way. He demanded it.

He said, we need some equality in this locker. Braxton Barrio's a DEI higher for the New York Giants. All right, AJ Brown. Let's stick on wide receivers, E.J. What do you think? Happens today. The Patriots, 2028 first, and that's it? What do you think?

I think 28, 28 first, and that's it. That's the thing I feel most strongly about right now. And we can talk about the compensation in a minute. I think, you know, we talked about windows on Friday's show, and the first window is closed. Windows are open right now. Yeah, but some of the windows are open. It's such a nice day.

What a beautiful day. Yeah, it's a good day to be hanging out at the golf course. I'm glad I don't have to play, too. Oh, I'd love to play. No, I don't want to injure anybody today. Or myself. Anyway, so on AJ Brown. Some great legends here today.

Yeah, absolutely. Brandon Graham, Trent Cole, John Runyon, Brian Westbrook. Oh, we might see some golf swings speaking of some of those guys. Some members of the forthcoming top 26 equals. My neighbor Nick is driving by right now. Shout out to Nick. Shout out to Nick. Neighbor Nick.

That's for your help with the dogs, man. Yeah, that's that guy. Salt of the Earth. Great neighbors. Yeah, but he, I mean, really his wife is the one who helped you out. No, he's, you know, he's being deferential to his wife, which is kind, but they both helped. Shout out to Nick and Dakota. I hope they don't mind me putting their business out there, but shout out to them.

All right. about AJ? Yes. All right. So I think the second window is where we're talking about, it's basically literally right now. They can agree to terms. There's nothing stopping them from agreeing to terms at this point and finalizing the trade at 401 and then the Eagles are able to spread that dead cap hit over two seasons. I think like the terrain is pretty clear at this point. It's the Patriots. I don't think that there are any other suitors that are pushing hard. I mean the Rams were won before this. So I think it's becoming clear. Do you think the Rams pulled out because they were trying to get Miles Garrett instead? Do you think that this was part of that?

It's possible. I mean, the Rams pulled out in March and they just very plainly said that, right, that they explored the deal and that they said it wasn't going to happen. So I think the Miles Garrett, like feeling out that market, maybe they realize that, you know, Jared Verson a one could secure Miles Garrett. I guess it would make sense from a Rams perspective. Like, you're waiting to see if you can get, and I don't want to overstate Ty Simpson, but you're waiting to see if you get a quarterback in the first round of the draft. And then once you do that, you feel good about trading future draft capital. I think that's, I think that's the, I think, that makes sense. I think, you know, I can see how that that could play out. But again, I think,

I think right now, I would predict it happens tonight. If it doesn't happen tonight, I think it happens Wednesday morning or Tuesday night. I think that they'll want to wait until after the OTAs tomorrow. We'll hear from somebody, whether it's Nick Siriani, Sean Mannion, or Vic Fangio. We will hear from someone before practice tomorrow, presumably. I think that how we- Not officially, yeah, but I am, you know, kind of taking the liberty of assuming that we will hear from someone. And I think Howie will want to address the trade. I don't think they'd want to send Nick Siriani or Sean Mangy out to explain the trade. So for that reason, I think it's either tonight or tomorrow night. Now watch, it'll be tomorrow morning now because I made that prediction. And you think that that's it?

It can't just be Wednesday. Oh, it could be. I think the argument for it being like Wednesday or Thursday is Howie probably has been making a lot of calls and talking to a lot of teams. And you don't want to have all those conversations and then at 401 maybe just snapped your fingers and say, all right, it was a Patriots all along. You know what I mean? I don't know. I think there's a really good chance that this deal has actually been agreed to for months. Oh, I think that that probably is the case. And everybody in the league knows it. Yeah. But I think a lot of this, to your point, is appearances. It's appearances to not show up the NFL and like, you know, have the trade come out Friday night. Like, I don't, there's not a rule against it. I think it was appearances. I think it's like

We don't want to have the league scrutinizing the fact that we had this deal in place for months. And the same thing could be said for the teams that you talk to. If the Eagles were on the phone with the Browns today, you know, trying to like, you know, get a gauge on what an AJ Brown for Miles Garrett deal would look like. You probably don't want to, like, I mean, again, it's like I might be overstating it. But you don't want to just then turn around and you're like, all right, we had this deal in place back in March. I don't want to disagree just to say, yeah. I'm not saying I just don't think that's how it works. I think

I don't think that if Howie has a deal in place with the Patriots, he's not talking to the Rams about an AJ Brown for Miles Garrett deal. So you don't think that they even called?

You think they did, right? But not with an AJ Brown involved in the deal. Okay. That's, I mean, this is a, it's a repeated game. The reputations matter here.

You can't, you can't agree to a deal and then all of a sudden renege on that because you got a better deal. So you think that Howie hasn't talked anybody about AJ.

I think that if they have a deal agreed to, then not really. Yeah. Okay. But I think if it's more an actual, like, understanding, like, we'll revisit this, which I don't think is the case, but if it was more like, okay, this is what your best offer is, we will try to beat it, and then, like,

how he cares about maintaining the relationships with everybody around the league. He's not going to just go screw. the Giants the Patriots general manager Elliot Wolf I think we said the same thing in just different ways

yeah I'm saying if it happens Wednesday it probably suggests that Howie was having conversations and didn't just want to like finalize the deal at 401 and disrespect those conversations if he was having those conversations

okay yes and now as for if that is the compensation good enough I think the question I had driving over here is what would the Eagles have gotten if they did like as involved as the Rams were if they were more willing to trade AJ in March and I'm sure that there was a willingness if their price was met I think their price was a little too high I think their price scared teams away but what would that offer have looked like would it have looked more like the first and the third in this year that the that the Miami Dolphins got for Jaylon Waddle because to me Like the Jalen Wattle comparison is a hard one to square. AJ Brown is a better player than J. Lin Waddle.

I know Jalen Waddle is younger. He's a little bit healthier and he doesn't have the off-field stuff. I just like, I'm sorry. I don't care. AJ Brown is a better player. So when you look at the compensation, I think the Eagles are getting less than I would have expected. But at the same time, then you flip it and you go,

okay, the Eagles really only have one aggressive suitor in this whole thing. You know, they don't have as much leverage as the dolphins had or that the Bears had when they traded DJ more. I think the timing of this deal informs the compensation that they've gotten. And again, that's why I do go back to if they were willing to take that cap hit in March, what would it look like?

And I would go so far as saying, I think they would have gotten a decent amount more if they had traded him in March. I don't think I agree with that. Okay. I think that Howie is prioritizing getting the best deal. And I think you can sort of trust as an Eagles fan that Howie's,

very good at that. So you think AJ didn't have, you think that the market, the 2028 first, is the best thing they've been offered dating all the way back to March? I think they are making the calculation of that plus the cap spread out. Okay. But no, but I don't really think that the difference is significant enough to make, if it was like a fourth round pick or something extra, then it's not worth it to them. I don't, I don't think that, I think they were willing to do it. Even though it would have meant being extremely tight against the cap and having to move some things around, I think they would have been willing to do it if it was a significantly better package of this.

Yeah, so I'm saying, do you think they got, if they had a waddle trade offer, like the same compensation. I don't think they had that waddle trade offer. Yeah, but, okay. I think I think AJ has a certain amount of places that he's willing to go to. Yes, that limits it for sure. That limits it. I think everybody knows that he wants out, so that limits your negotiating power. and he is a little bit older

and he is potential in the decline. I think they would have gotten closer to Waddle had they traded him in March. And I understand why they didn't because of the salary cap thing. But I mean, we won't know. So that's fine. I think they would have gotten more.

I don't think they would have gotten that. Okay. Why are we arguing over the margins? I don't know. Why are you wrong so often? Yeah. I don't know. I think if you're an English fan,

the one thing I'm disappointed about is that there is not more variability to it. I would have loved a condition or... Well, you can root for the Patriots to be bad, but... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So you think it's also going to be a 20-28 first? Wouldn't have wanted the Rams 28 first instead of their 27 first. Yeah, that would have made sense. Teams are weird about that. I mean, the Eagles... I mean, it's been forever. I feel like it's a Jeffrey Lorry thing at this point. I know people talk about Howie, but I feel like future picks in general

have been, I think, for a really long time for them, that they value them. They're worth what they are when you make the pick, not necessarily if it takes two extra years. But yeah, no, I think you're right there where it's like the Browns probably should be prioritizing. Like, I want like the Ty Simpson first round pick. I don't want the Matthew Stafford one.

Right, exactly. So, I don't know. 28 Patriots, yeah, they'll probably be being fun. Yeah, again, I think it makes sense in the framework that who were the Patriots bidding against? Yeah. Like, who, there was not another team that was going to be aggressive in this market. I think, like, if you look at the Waddle Trade as a comparison, you're going to be disappointed.

And I understand that. And I think the timing factored into that. You think that it's just AJ's market wasn't as strong. But to me, like, the bigger thing is I don't think that Howie had much leverage here. He didn't really have another option other than trading into the Patriots. I agree with that. Wow. Where to go.

Where to go, buddy. Good looking scene here. everybody waiting for burgers and dogs so we have the full trade terms here oh so this is according to adam schaefter never heard of them the browns are getting Jared verse a 2027 first a 2028 second

and a 2029 third oh interesting that's more than more cascading ladder there yeah that's more than the oh yeah it's a Jared verse in the first yeah second yeah second in 2028 okay that trade is more than Jalen Carter and a 1.

Right, but if it was the same, would you have done? No. Jalen Carter, a first next year, a second, and a third? No, I'm actually, I'm very validated by this because I said I would have expected him to go for more, and this is more. A 2028-2? Yeah, that's what I thought. Oh, I didn't think that. Okay.

I was reading it as a verse and a 1. Okay. And when you say more, I'm thinking like, okay, like a mid-round pick, you know? Okay. Yeah. it's that the 2029 third is very funny well you would and you as the eagles would not have done Jalen Carter and those terms I would not I think at that point

I would have argued that Jalen Carter was worth more than Jared verse in this type of deal even the 2028 second I mean that's a good package that's a that's a good return for the Browns to get from I was Garrett yeah yeah and it's a nice that it's not long one year you get to spread it out yeah yeah I mean for the Rams you like that a little bit but oh you're saying for the browns like to get those future fix yeah yeah no that's a good that i don't think the eagles would have beat that if jonathan grenard weren't on the team maybe

like you know you use those two threes you trade up for jonathan granard maybe okay would you have done nolan smith and two firsts and a second probably okay i mean just because i don't think nolan worth that much draft capital compared to Jalen Carter. Would you have considered... It's a lot of picks, though. Would you have considered that package, but instead of Jalen Carter, it's Cooper DeGine or Quineyenne Mitchell? Asking that again?

Sorry? The same Jaredverse package, but instead of Jalen Carter, it's Cooper to Jean or Quineon Mitchell? No. I don't think I would do that. Okay. Even though Jalen Carter will sign a deal

that's more expensive than either of those guys, probably. Um, yeah, I don't know. Something about the like, I think the, the, the uncertainty around, like, getting Jalen Carter signed to that deal. And also, again, I think Jalen Carter will be great, but there is a world where he stagnates or doesn't turn into what we expect him to turn into. I just feel more like Quentin Mitchell and Cooper de Jeter like safer if you're trying to plan like the next five years of your defense. also from a 2026 standpoint you can get by with

Jordan Davis and Morro OJamo and feel pretty good but replacing either of those guys in secondary at this stage to the off season is pretty difficult Yeah you could even make an argument that if you traded for Garrett could you have tried to find a way to extend OJMO? It's probably hard because of what Garrett's making but

you can at least make the argument Yeah okay we are expecting to be joined momentarily by the great Brian Dawkins Now here's my question for you E.J. Brian Donkins

The top 26 Eagles of the century would you have Doc at number one? I think I had him number two. No, you know what? I had him number three. Number three. Oh, I wonder if he's going to be offended by that.

Of course you're going to tell him the second he gets on the set. So who did you have ahead of him? Jason, Kelsey, and Cam Latu? I had Lane Johnson Okay And Jason Peters Oh interesting

Yeah Okay Both of them ahead of Kelsey Yeah Kelsey the positional value factored in He's in my top five obviously Okay No I had

I had Jason Peters at two I feel like Jason Peters Jason Peters Without getting too much into The whole philosophy of my list I was really going I didn't have as much stock into like you're like having like a 16 year career

it was about like the greatness that you you had during your tenure not to say Brian Dawkins didn't have that too got a great looking shirt on Doc today yeah we can see them right over there island theme going on we've been listening to some great reggae all day long it's great and Doc's got a you will recognize the color pattern the Clemson purple and orange yeah but it's floral fantastic stuff

all right let's take another break We'll come back, hopefully to be joined by Doc soon. And we'll continue talking about A.J. Brown, what is to come on Braxton Barrios Day here at the Brian Dawkins Impact Foundation golf event at Penn Oaks. We've got two championship series getting ready to start. We got the NHL, Stanley Cup Finals, rooting for the Canes. And then we got the NBA championship. and you can get in on the action with our friends at Bet365

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thanks to our friends at Elkins Chevy. Elkins Chevrolet, real brothers, real deals, and a whole lot of honking good service. Route 73 South and Marlton, telling P.HL. I sent you. All right, back on the P.HL.I. Eagles podcast, Bo Wolf, E.J. Smith, Lindsay here, setting it all up. Everybody's raving about the lighting

on the show today. Lindsay, fantastic work. Now, as we're here, you've been did some good groundwork boots on the ground hit the pavement the links more like it and it took some videos of some golf swings for us I did I got I tried to get a hoo-zoo

it's hard to find people on the course so go easy on me but I got some former eagles some media members some notable figures you know got some video of the golf scene I may have had one person asked me to send them the video because they were so happy with how their shot turned out Oh, okay.

Should we take a look? Yeah, let's look at them. Let's look at a couple of them. Now it's going to be a little bit delayed our reactions here. Yeah, but we'll play them a couple times maybe. You can see, you guys can critique with us in the chat. Oh, yeah, maybe give us a double play. All right, we're starting with Brian Westbrook.

Who will be in the top 26? Would you have Westbrook ahead of Shady and Swaykman Barkley? Would he be your number one? He goes running back. Probably would have him number two right now. I think Sequin, I don't know, it's hard. Ask me again in a couple of weeks. Yeah.

So you got the swing here? You see it? He's got a good swing. He's got a really, really good tempo. A little bit robotic on the back swing, a little shoulder heavy, but a nice follow-through. Okay. Yeah. Was it a good shot?

I think it was a pull, but, you know, listen, relatively good shot. Good powerful swing, too. I like that. One of my favorite swings, I'm a big tempo guy with a golf swing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's because it's something I struggle with. So I always like to see someone who's got that nice pause at the top as they rotate through.

Oh, I feel like the pause is not tempo. I feel that the tempo is no stop. It's just a smooth. I know, but you said tempo. I mean, that's a staccato. People literally pause at the top of their swing. I'm not saying that they don't do that, but that's not tempo. That's not tempo.

It is literally tempo. No, it's not. You can, you, you want to use the actual definition of tempo. All right, man. Yeah, who's the best, who's the best golf swing you can think of? Well, Tiger Woods. Like, you're doing like a Hadeki Matsuyama, like at the, like, at the, top of his tempo.

Yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's, for me, the ideal golf swing. The big, easy, the perfect golf swing. Oh, looks like you might have one more. We got Brian Dawkins. the way coming in here. Let's take a quick break on the other side. Doc joins us on set. Very excited about today. Not only are we here at the Brian Dawkins event, but after the show today, Lindsay and I have been invited to go over to EJ's house. And I can't wait to get there and check out the wall where he has framed all the different meat picks from Ed, from Ace, looking forward.

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When treatments lapse, pest activity tends to ramp up a little bit, especially with ants, spiders, rodents, bees, and other common household pests looking for a place to settle in. Use the code, return 5 in booking your own. next general pest treatment and get 5% off as part of this limited time. Welcome back off or learn more at Evanspestmgmgmt.com. Back on the PHSOY Eagles podcast and look who we have the great Brian Dawkins. Doc, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having us here. Let's start right away with the Impact Foundation. Tell us a little bit about what you guys do, what you are raising money here for today and everything that goes into it. Yeah, blessed opportunity for me to come out to do some things for the community. We want the foundation wants, we're going to bless the places that bless me, right?

And this place blessed me tremendously, not just monetarily. He blessed me in so many different ways. So we're giving back in a way that really hits home for me because of some of the things that I saw in my neighborhood and some of the people that I've lost in my life. And so we're blessing single parents and then the children in the household with opportunities to do things that they probably wouldn't be able to do without the givings from the foundation. And we also do things in a couple of high schools here in Philadelphia.

One particular, George Washington High School is one of the premier places that we do our cerebral wellness program. I don't talk about mental health. It's too many negative connotations. So I call it our cerebral wellness programs. And we have a young ambassadors program there as well. And so, again, we're just doing things to enhance the possibility.

the percentage of individuals then seeing life through a different lens because of the opportunities that the foundation and this golf tournament and the funds raised from it goes into that. It's wonderful. We appreciate everything that you're doing. And as we look around and we see all the

ex-teammates here, is there somebody that when you see them in terms of an ex-teammate just like brings a smile to your face and is like I'm just so happy to see you because I think about this a lot. I was thinking, I was talking about this are our little league baseball season ended right and it's and that's like just you know

these eight year olds will never be on this team again yeah when when you are a professional and you do it for a living and you see these guys every day to be able to see somebody from your past who was such an important part of your life it must it must you know make your heart grow yeah it does and that's not a one person thing that's like it really when i see hugh when i see hollis when i see you know just d walk came out when i see these guys and all the battles that we've going through all the things that we've done together. Like it just brings a huge smile to your face. That they're first of all coming back, you know, coming out to the support, you know,

a couple of them, you know, can't play a lick of golf at all. But they come out and have a good time to enjoy the atmosphere. And, you know, they show the individuals who are sponsoring, you know, the holes and all those things are good time. So I'm, again, it's a blessing for me to do this thing. And I just so happens to have some quality individuals that I played with. And so once again, it's not just one person I think of that happens. It's a multitude of individuals when I see them.

A huge smile just comes on my face. Now, you mentioned that some of the guys can't play a lick of golf, but who is a good golfer out there? We just watched Brian Westbrook swing. It seemed like he's got some good move there. Oh, yeah. So Bea has been in it for a couple of years now. Like pretty strong.

Like so his game is pretty good. Irvin Friar has a phenomenal game. Who else from a former player? I think those two would be the first two that, well, I left out Trot, my bad. So Trott has been playing for a while. As a matter of fact, he almost hit us on the green from one of his drives. I'm going to have to talk to him about that. But no, so it's a couple of guys that really have good games because they do it.

I just, I don't get out of that. Trott Jr. will at least appreciate the color combo here that you've got going with the sort of the clemson, purple, and orange, which everybody loves. And so the reason why this shirt exists in this fashion is because I wanted to. have a shirt that represented every place that I played. So if you look at it, you kind of look at this. You have the green. You have the green. Okay.

You have the orange and you have the blue. Obviously, the blue is from Denver. The purple is from Clemson. The orange is from Clemson. Also the orange is from Denver as well. So it's kind of, and I have a green version. You probably have seen the green version of it. That's a heavy influence of Philadelphia.

Okay. This is more of overall. Overall. Okay, overall. I like that. Now let's pivot a little bit to the current Eagle situation. And as we talk about you seeing all these teammates, I'm curious about your perspective on this day when AJ Brown is likely to get traded

or any time this week, the relationship with him and Jalen and the sadness, I guess, of the fact that it is part of what is leading a great player to lead Philadelphia. How I look at it through the lens that I'm blessed and I'll see. it because of some of the things that have happened in my career, with my career, is that things do happen and then you move on and you have success, right? If you draft the right way, if you bring the right people in, you have success. And what I mean by that is, like, my philosophy and my mindset is whoever walks into the door, if I'm a player, that's what I'm going to war with. Whoever does not, I wish that individual will well, you go do your thing somewhere.

But when you walk into this building, this is who I'm going to go to Warwood, and this is who we're going to win games with, right? So that's just my mentality when it comes to that. How about Jalen Hertz as a leader? What's been your vantage point? Is somebody who has walked in those shoes and been in those positions? I guess what stands out about the way that he's led the team over the last few years? Well, he's in a tough place.

He's in a tough town, very demanding place. You know, it's one of those things that in the National Football League, we all know that the quarterback and the head coach gets a whole lot of the praise, but they also get a whole lot of the blame, right? And so whatever his ingredients into the struggling of the offense, I'm hoping that from his past experiences and the things that I've seen him do even in Oklahoma of getting better, right? I believe that he has the mindset to get better,

that he really looks at himself in a way to get better. I'm expecting that to happen. I'm expecting. And I'm not going to make excuses for some of the struggles. Yet there have been some things in place as far as him having a new coordinator every dog on here. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I can't think of another person who's ever had that experience.

Maybe you've had done research and maybe y'all have come up with something. But I can't think of anyone who's had. Nothing quite like that. Yeah. Yeah. So again, that's, that's hard in his way. But you still have to find a way. However you need to find a way to get it done,

you need to find a way and they haven't figured that out yet. And that's one of the frustrating things, obviously, in the building. But it's also from a fan perspective, look, that's another frustrating thing for me to watch. And it does feel like, given all of that, you know, Jalen's excitement, I don't know if you saw this last week, talk about the new offense and Sean Manning's ability to answer all of his questions. It just feels like it's a good match of the way that Jalen is wired, someone who does really want to push himself to get better,

it feels like he is embracing this opportunity. And that's, again, that's what you want, that you want that individual who can be honest what he sees on the film. Like if you can't be brutally honest with what you see on film, you will never get better. You would always remain in a level that's declining because there is no staying the same.

Either you get better or you get worse. There is no in between, right? So you have to be honest, brutally, honest what you're looking at on film. And just for me, as I look at Jaylen, like, when you flashed the great prey that you've shot

flashed in the Super Bowl two times, that's what I'm expected of you. I'm expecting that version, something similar to that, every doggone weekend. When it does not happen, then yes, there needs to be some questions answer. But again, I'm not the one

that should be doing that. That should be a him thing. And again, I'm not getting on him. just saying from a player perspective of how I did things, how I handled my business, listen, I want you, coach, to point out every dumb thing, everything that you see, because I need to get better, because I need to be better for, not for me, but I need to be better for my teammates. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to get that done. How did things work then with Donovan, say, for instance, when he's going through ebbs and flows of his career, are you able to stay siloed into your job on defense, or do you have

conversations with Donovan as things are going on and he's getting criticism. So if a player on my team is struggling, does that change my job? I guess not. Not even one iota.

Even if it's a change my job. I'm talking about on the field. Sure. What is expected of me on the football field and from a leadership perspective. Now, to your point, yes, I will have conversations, but it won't be a getting on

it. It would be a checking on a guy. I like to speak sure everything is all right. And if something that I can do to help, then I want to do that. But as far as my play on the field and my leadership in the locker room and in the building, like that does not change, you know, what I expected myself. Do you see the news in the NFL today, Doc? Which one? Miles Garrett.

The huge. Yeah, the huge word. Miles Garrett traded to the Rams for Jared verse and a boatload of picks. And it sounds like, is this rumor correct? Yeah. Aaron Dowled may be coming back. I haven't seen this, but I just. turn it.

Is it? That's the first thing I thought about. So Aaron Donald was playing at a high level when he retired. If you watch some of his videos, he's still lifting like he's in the league. Yeah, right. So it would not surprise me, seriously, if you would not surprise me if he takes a whole lot less to come back and play. It sounds like that may be the case. Did you ever flirt with a return?

Not even close. I was about to say, was there a player that would have gotten you out of retirement? No, no, so matter of fact, when I came, when I was in Denver, that was the last, when I retired, it's the year that Peyton Manning came there. Oh, that's right. So I waited and prayed like a couple of, like a month to make sure that that piece remained in my heart to retire, and it remained in my heart, so I retire. That's funny. You let me, you look like you can still play. No, looks can be deceived. I think you could go out there. You might give us a half at least, right?

No, no, it'd have to be goal line. It'll have to be me blitzers. Okay. Well, we can make that happen. I mean, yeah, listen, we'll talk to that. Yeah. Yeah, get a call on the big. No side wouldn't move just straight ahead. Okay.

Everything straight ahead. The last thing I want to ask about, Doc, is we are doing a project this summer, sort of ranking the best Eagles since 2000. And I am curious what your reaction is to the idea that there is a very good chance that number one on that list will be Ryan Dawkins. Wow. Wow. That's, oh, that's a tremendous honor. Like, again, for people to think. about me in those terms and for me to do that.

And you probably have never heard, or you may have, that I always view the success in my life through my 16-year-old eyes. And he did not think a whole lot of himself. He was real angry and he, you know, felt disrespect it a whole lot of times. So he didn't expect to have a success that I'm having. So when I look through his eyes that you're telling me that a franchise, the Philadelphia Eagles, you know, a major franchise that, you know, by name, consistently comes up as, you know, the great, one of the greatest, one of the greatest.

And then you're telling me, you know, the greatest, you know, two thousand, that's the two thousand. And that's, that's just, that's mind-knowing for me. At what point from that 16-year-old did you start to get that perspective that, you know, you were able to grow beyond that? I don't. Okay. I don't. I will never let the child of me, like, die.

Like, that child of me will always be alive in me. So, again, when you say that, I literally, I literally think about. him. I think about the mindset that I had and I think about again that here it is my name Brian Dawkins. This kid from Jacksonville that not a lot of respected from him has the respect

of a a tough place like Philadelphia, right? Like it's again, it's just mind-blowing for me to still see people walking around wearing my jersey, right? It's just, it's extremely humbling for me. All right. Well, the great Brian Dawkins. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you for your time.

Appreciate it. Great to see it. for having us. Thank you. Give it up, give it up for Brian Johnkins in the chat. All right. How about that, E.J.? Thank you. Thank you, thank you, John. Beautiful. Yeah, it's pretty cool for me

specifically because like, you know, you should have told him. We should have said something. Oh, no, I don't want to, you know, I didn't want to be, you know, be professional. Be your own 16-year-old self, E.J. You got to be a professional, but the 16-year-old version of me, like, I like, you know, I'm good at separating and the players that I currently cover, you know, being an objective reporter, but like Brian Dawkins, like on set with Brian Dawkins, remember Donovan McNabb called me for a story one time? That's like where like the, to use his term, the 16 year old and me is like, oh my God,

like, you know, what if I could go back and tell a younger version of myself that that was going to happen? So what would have said? Honestly, a 16 year old me would have been like, that's cool and all. Oh, yeah, so of course we've heard about how the 16 year old you was not super interest sports is really more about the talking about the lady. is more like, honestly, it's more like 10-year-old me. Okay.

And 10-year-old me would have been pretty excited about that. Okay. At 16-year-old you met Julia yet? Yeah. I met Julian when I was 14 or 15. Probably 15. But not, you were not yet dating. Not yet dating, no.

Friends, working together. Make an ice cream together. Make an ice cream together. Don't even, don't even think about it. Yeah, that just hit my ear wrong. Very exciting, Lindsay. We're hoping to be able to check out the Smith compound The compound.

I don't know if you could call it a compound. What's that? Oh. I'm going to start doing what you do. I don't agree. Compound's not the right word for that. Yeah. No, excited to have you guys over.

You know, Penn Oaks is pretty close to my neck of the woods. It's a nice drive. So, yeah, come on over. I didn't have time to barbecue, though. So you guys are going to have to come back and I'll smoke something for you. I'm very excited to go to the. the Smith compound. Fantastic.

What do you, what do you most look at? Meet the dogs. Oh, yeah. Definitely meet the dogs. Oh, my God. Red flag. Yeah.

Weirdo. Weirdo over here. I might not be able to make it. Unfortunately, I'm going to pick up the kids. It's not going to happen. All right. Should we check out some more golf videos?

No, yeah. We got a couple more swings while we're here. All right. Who's up next? All right. We got John Clark. John Clark has an interesting swing. I'm going to narrate what I remember about it.

Tennis player by trade. While we wait. for the swing. He has a big like over looping back swing but he shallows the club out really nicely and you can tell he gets in the right positions by the time he's got to hit the ball which is impressive. Good athlete you can definitely tell

he's athletic by his swing. Are you here? Here we go right here. So you get athletic position look at that back swing and then bang it's an interesting swing right? Yeah that was not what I was expecting now it's a little bit of Jim

Fureckian. Yeah Somebody in the chats said the same thing Yeah, a little bit of Furik in there, a lot of moving parts But listen, he squared it up This was a good shot A bit of a Sergio False Start waggle to begin with as well

I'm a big waggle guy Like he's got that club Like up and down In the back swing And he just lays it down really nicely And you were right about Really shallow too Yeah

Interesting Now he was the one He said can you send me that Oh he wanted the video Oh yeah Because he has a great drive Because listen I watch this drive.

Listen, I mean, I can attest. My swing aesthetically does not look terrible, but I got no idea where it's going. So you could play golf or you can play golf swing. John Clark, that guy's playing golf, man. Man, that's interesting. Good tennis player, John Clark. Yeah, that's probably why he's good at golf.

I feel like tennis translates well to golf, doesn't it? I guess. Baseball doesn't. No, baseball will ruin your golf swing. Hockey, though. Hockey, very good. Yeah, because you get that like slap shot feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. All right, who we got next, Lindsay? Are you going to thank me for not telling Doc that you didn't have him number one? I mean, that just would have been like really unkind on multiple levels. Not just to me, but to him. Okay. It was one of my favorite players growing up. I had a couple of Brian Dawkins jerseys.

Seth Joyner. Come up. Seth swing is exactly what you'd expect Seth's swing to look like. He eats the ball? No. The thing about Seth, too, you'll catch. When you see the video, you'll notice. don't have his like pre-shot routine he's quick man like he he has like a little routine he goes

through when he gets up to the ball he's hitting that thing he got the little club tour at the end too so yeah i think that's a set joiner swing i do a hit on that thing he hit it hard i think he uh i think that one ended up in a fair way as well somebody pointed out staccato is a tempo okay it's not that's not that's not the point that you're making it's literally the point i'm making it's not You can pause at the top. That's a good looking swing from show. That's the best looking swing of the three. Oh, you think so?

Yeah. I felt like Westbrooks look good. Maybe the angle wasn't good. Who do we have left, Lindsay? Oh, yeah, we got John Runyon. Oh, Johnny Runn. All right, so John Runyon, I'm going to just buries the ball in the dirt. Everybody before him's got these, like, nice new drivers.

They're all swinging so hard. They're trying to crush the ball. Runyon comes up. He teased it down real low. He's got like this old square driver. Okay. And he is just like casual as can be, gets up to the ball. And it's just like a nice, smooth, almost look like a 70% swing.

But look at this. Like this is like just a good swing, you know, a little off balance at the end there. Yeah, it comes open a little bit at the end. You don't want to be seeing that. Everybody else, like these guys were hitting it in the trees. And John Rennie walks up there, center of the fairway, confident, casual. It was cool. Well, he's a, you know, he's a member of Roger Goodell's front office.

He's going to be playing a lot of golf, probably. I didn't think about that. I was actually thinking about, like, you know, how much he's put his body through to play all the years he played and all the games he played. It's probably not. He probably can't anchor that knee. Yeah, I was about to say he probably has some limitations to what he's able to do out there. But no, he's out there getting in the fair way. Good take from Rich Bobby that John Clark doesn't own golf clubs.

He just steals them from the airport. Johnny Airport. That's a good take. Is it that? It must be pretty easy. You can bear belt. Let's say stealing golf club. Oh, you're stealing them off the baggage claim.

Yeah. All right. I don't hate that. Surprise that doesn't happen more often. But like, golf clubs, I'm a lefty. But golf clubs to me are like personal. Well, yeah. Like, because I'm a lefty, I probably feel more strongly about that.

I wouldn't want to play with somebody else's clubs. Well, you would if you didn't have any clubs. He has clubs. It's personal. He's using it if somebody breaks in his house. That's right. Oh, exactly. Yeah.

How else is my wife going to kill the bugs? That's right. It reminds me of my buddy was living in Chicago at one point and somebody broke into his house and stole his laptop and stuff. But they also stole his baseball glove. Oh. I mean. What are we doing? Take the laptop.

Fine. I understand. But you're going to take my glove? The baseball glove? What the hell? You're not going to resell that? And you're not going to use it either. Like, you're not using somebody else's baseball glove.

Come on! Although, Take the TV! I don't care! One of my gloves was a hand-me-down glove. But still, stealing someone's baseball glove is like stealing their underwear. Worse. I think that's one of the worst things you can do.

Steal a baseball glove? Steal someone's baseball glove? Yeah, it's twisted. It's weird. It's a weird thing to do. That is awful. Terrible stuff. We should have had like a golf competition.

I mean, it's not too late. I got my clubs in the car. You got your clubs in the car? I didn't bring them for this. They're just always in the car. Okay. Now somebody's going to steal my clubs. I wonder how I would do lefty?

My brother-in-law tried lefty, a lefty golf swing when we were out in Cape Cod and New Year and make it weird. And yeah, he didn't have a good time. It's hard. No, I was laughing because Gene is doing t-ball and she draws lefty, but she throws righty, although the other day she started throwing lefty. So we got her another glove so she could do both. And she calls it, she's a both-ty. She's a both-ty. That's cute.

I like that. I like both-key. Will you push her to be? No, you won't. I know you won't. But I would like it if my prospective children were left-handed. As a left-de-myself, I think that would be nice. It's a real advantage in sports.

Like, you have a real upper hand, especially when you're young, if you're left-handed. Did you see a left-handed catcher in the softball world series? No. That's, like, very rare. To me, that's never made sense, though. Yeah. Like, I caught when I was young, and I've always thought, like, second base, yeah, being left you'd be hard.

You'd always be kind of like turning the wrong way. Shortstop, sure. Third base, maybe. Catcher, yeah, so it's a little bit silly. Catcher, it's like, why does being right-handed matter for that? I guess you'll throw the pitcher off? I mean, it's a marginal effect of the throw is tailing towards the runner, which is a little bit better, but, I mean, that should not be.

Throwing to first base is a little bit awkward if you're lefty, and you've, got a left-handed batter in the box. There should be more left-handed catchers. Yeah. It should have been me. I was too lazy to be a catcher, though. Especially they didn't have those like thigh pads that you can wear now where you are sitting on like the pad.

You know who is a catcher? Eric. Oh, really? Yeah. And he's a lefty. Oh, he was also a lefty catcher? I don't think he called lefty. Really? Wow. So he was a both-ty.

I feel like he doesn't throw. Oh, he like writes left. He golfs left. I think he turns a bat left, but he throws right. Okay. Being a left-hand of golf is so depressing. Why? Because it's like finding used clubs is a lot harder,

and I buy all my clubs used. And I feel like a lot of golf courses are set up for a right-handed slice. So you're disadvantaged unless you hit a big draw. Go play Augusta National. Made for lefties. Yeah, it's so easy. Just go do that. All right.

Good stuff. We're like an hour away from 4 o'clock. You think it's water gun to your head? Does it happen before 5 o'clock? This isn't it. I promise, this isn't it? I'm going to guess it happens at 7 o'clock. I was going to say, why don't you tell them in?

Golf time. Dawkins time. So I think what the most fun thing to happen would be if we're at E.J.'s. Yeah, that's when it happens. Yeah. Kind of hoping that. It would be great.

Yeah. I got, I mean. You both have to like share the one week. I guess we can do this whole setup. I got the set. Oh, man. We can do it from your bed. Never mind.

We are not doing that. We could do, yeah, we could set something up. Yeah, I mean, I can, I can stream yard in. Yeah, we got, we got some stream yard spots from your garage. I mean, you could do it from the kitchen table if you wanted. you guys across the kitchen table from each other. Hopefully like 7 o'clock. Give you guys some time to get home.

I think what we should do is you do your normal setup, and then I just pop in behind you. That's weird. Why wouldn't you just have your own setup? Surprise the people. Could do it with the dogs. The people who are tuning in just for the emergency pod, but not an hour long into this episode.

Well, I mean, everybody should be. I got to apologize to Sixers fans. Yeah. Um, but not really, but they should know how this all came about. Um, you know, I'm one of the few people who's been speaking truth to power about Josh Harris. Okay. Uh, miserable worm that he is. Yeah.

And, uh, as such, he took it upon himself. It has become abundantly clear to try to get back at me by way of reason. traumatizing me as a Wake Forest basketball fan from the mid-2000. Okay. And so he lets everybody know that the only two people we're interviewing for, we've narrowed it down, our general manager, Jemir Nelson and Mike Gansy, the two guys who both eliminated Chris Paul from the NCAA tournament. And he sends me a text of a middle finger, like how you like me now.

Did he do that? And then he's, and then he, Mike Gansy is the guy. He cares more about. making me sad than finding the right general manager for, you know, his third or fourth favorite team that he owns. Yeah, I'm sure it was completely centered around you. So I'm sorry to six of you've been caught up in this,

this battle between the two of us, but rest assured, I will not stop. I see you, Josh. And I will never be as attractive as you. That's true? Nobody will be. but I'm not keeping my mouth shut. We don't have to worry about that.

My favorite thing about that hire is Friday news dump for your president of basketball operations. Like, oh, okay. Usually you'd be excited about that. You wouldn't want to kind of sneak that in just before everybody goes home for the weekend. Well, there you have it. Yeah.

All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.E.O.E.O.E.E.O. Shout out to Penn Oaks. That's a Penn Hoax, by the way. Great place. Great people. We've been here. I've been there.

This is a third year now. Great to see the familiar faces. Fantastic. Penhawks, if you're watching this, I live right down the street. Help me out. Help a brother out. Let's do this. Free advertising for myself.

We'll be live tomorrow at 4 o'clock. We're supposed to get to see practice potentially tomorrow. Maybe hear from some players. But, of course, there's a chance that we'll be joining you for an emergency podcast before then if in fact Samore Toray has a press conference by the way one minor thing to get off my chest okay this idea that Samore Toray is uh an example of Sean Mannion's influence in the offense is insane yeah this is a

no offense this is a camp body a guy whose only overlap with Sean Mannion was when he was rehabbing an injury when Sean Manning was a low-level assistant in his first year in Green Bay take it easy Sean Menon certainly has

his finger on the pulse a little bit and the decision-making but Samoa Tori is not the example of that that was a good note I was worried where you were going with that, but that was very valid, substantive. I agree. Overstated.

Well, we've had a lot of Toray here today. We're going to go get some more and then talk to you either tomorrow at 2 o'clock or an emergency podcast before then. Thank everybody for listening. Thank you for watching. Let us know below. If you think Docs should be number one on the list of the top 26 sequels, we will see you later. And as always, we love you.