PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles 26: No. 22 Jon Runyan & No. 21 Terrell Owens, Stars With Rough Edges | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Our series on the best Eagles players this century continues with a focus on Jon Runyan, the tough-as-nails right tackle who was the model of consistency and tenacity for the early 2000s Eagles, and Terrell Owens, the No. 1 wide receiver who was promised in every way. Eagles legend Mike Quick joins the show with insight on both players, as does one of the honorees himself. Join Fran Duffy and Bo Wulf for the reflection.    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the PHAWI Eagle Show on a Thursday afternoon. Bo Wolf, Fran Duffy here as we roll on live from the Xfinity Lounge and presented by Ashley the Eagles 26. Boy, what a great episode on Tuesday, Fran. Hugh Douglas, Asante Samuel, nailed it. Just unbelievable stuff from you guys. The insight, the comedy. I mean, as good as it gets. But I'm excited for this one because, uh,

getting a little bit further back. Yes, and we can get into that. Let's just get right into it, because we actually got a lot to get to. Yeah. On the show, we've got some guests joining us, so stay tuned for that as we open up number 22 on the list. Over the course of nine seasons

from the start of 2000 through the end of 2008, 18 different linebackers started for the Eagles. There were eight different starting tight ends. 13 different running backs, 15 wide receivers, five quarterbacks, and believe it or not, six different fullbacks, eight safeties, 11 cornerbacks, nine defensive ends, eight defensive tackles,

four left tackles, and 15 different interior offensive linemen all started games. At right tackle, for 144 straight games, there was just one. Fittingly, on the day that John Runyon broke Herm Edwards' franchise record for consecutive games started, a different offensive lineman, Todd Harriman's, was the one in the spotlight for catching a touchdown pass and a win over the Seattle Seahawks. Never won to crowd the spotlight, dependable, tenetable, tenetious. Runyon was exactly who Andy Reid hoped he would be when the team signed him as the first

major free agent edition of Reed's tenure just a few weeks after Runyon's appearance in the Super Bowl with the Tennessee Titans coming off a second team all pro season. Runyon's pairing with left tackle, Trey Thomas gave the Eagles pillars on either side of Donovan McNabb. Pass protection. Runyon was ahead of his time as a right tackle, holding off the likes of Michael Strayhan. And yeah, as the name suggests, he would run you into the ground. A throwback player, who also became a throwback congressman, opting not to seek re-election in part because of frustration with his own party for their role in a government shutdown

who added, politics shouldn't be a career, and I never intended to make it one. Runyon gave the ascending Eagle's dynasty of competence. the edge it needed. His accolades won't overwhelm you, just one Pro Bowl in 2002, and the team's Offensive MVP Award in 2005, which he explained was because he was the last guy left standing. But one could argue the honors would be greater

had he not made a living, making enemies with every defensive player in the league. The ultimate guy who you love as a teammate and hate as an opposing player, Runyon was Philadelphia's for nine hard scrabble gritted teeth seasons. He cements himself

as number 22 on our list of the Eagles 26 greatest players of this century. And here he is. John Runyon, John, thank you so much for taking the time. Good to be here. All right. So let's get into it.

And one thing that we have sort of talked about is you were so known for Eagles fans for your toughness, your durability. And I think there's a way in which that maybe undersells how good of a football player you were. And so I guess what do you hope your legacy is to Eagles fans? I mean, it's really, it's really that, that, just dedicating yourself to someone and someone or something

and showing up every day and putting your best foot forward. You know, I go through this, you know, you can even tell in my own son or guys that I'm coaching. And it goes, you know, your best ability is your availability, number one. And, you know, I kind of took that. And throughout my whole career, you know,

I had this conversation last week with some old friends. I guess they tried to replace me twice with Sean Andrews and Winston Justice. So it was just that thing. If you never give, you know, the younger guy who's cheaper than you are. and has less experience than you do, the opportunity to prove he can actually do it,

he's probably not going to have enough experience to overtake you. And that is the best thing. It's like, are you injured or are you hurt? You know, you just have to show up and play. And yet, I'm sure that there were a lot of times where, you know, what you were playing through was a lot. Everybody wants to be on the field for you to be able to do it for 144 consecutive games.

Like, you know, what was that mentality that allowed you to play? play through some of the really difficult times. I think it was just a mind over matter, if you will, kind of deal. It's like, yeah, if you really think about it. So if your medical team tells you, you're not going to injure yourself further, it's just not going to be comfortable.

And then you have to flash back to, yeah, you know, it gets a little tough, like kind of waddling up to the line of scrimmage, putting your hand in the dirt and getting in that stance, like all that stuff hurts. But you know what? you're not thinking about the second that that snap happens, that pain, you're thinking about, you're thinking about getting off on the snap count, you know, anticipating where this guy's going,

getting your technique down, getting your, you know, two or three steps into the point of contact. So you're not focused on the fact that you're in pain. You're focused on executing your job. And so when you can actually go out and do that and have that disconnect and have a belief that you can play through that kind of stuff and not further injure yourself, that's really all it is, is about flipping that switch on and off. And, you know, it's the same thing.

You can't, you can't go out and, you know, play how I played on the NFL football field and actually behave that way in society or you'll end up in jail. So it's the builder to turn that switch on and off too. Were you always wired that way as a kid growing up or was there a time when you sort of like talked yourself into switching that flip?

Well, I think I'd probably, took it in, you know, basketball in early on, you know, it was like, especially, you know, you're, you're sitting in a, you know, a two-one-two zone or a two-three zone. It was like, you know, this lane area is mine. If you're going to come in here, you're going to earn this. So kind of really started from my basketball because I didn't play, you know, I didn't play organized football until I was a junior in high school. So a lot of that stuff that I had learned there, you know, on the basketball court kind of carried over. And then really my first experience with actually going to a football camp was at the University of Michigan.

And you still had, you know, all the, you know, Bo Schembeckler kind of era coaches around that were, you know, was all, it was all harassment on the offensive side of the ball, getting people's faces, you know, push them around, try to get them to, you know, antagonize them, try to get them to retaliate. Because that, that really is one thing I kind of looked at is like, I'm always, you know, poking you and pushing you. and you're trying to fight me, I just took your athletic advantage away from you just because of what I'm doing to you. Yeah, I'm curious from your perspective as such an agitator on the field in your post-career life,

when you come across guys who, you know, you guys hated each other on the field, is there, like, do you come together and sort of laugh about that, or does that tension still exist? No, I mean, they get what it was. And, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to really get someone there.

Like it's got to be constant, constant, constant. It's harassment. Like, you're just running up and bumping into them. And I think the psychology of it is like, I don't say a lot. So I run into you. I'm not saying anything. So you kind of get in people's head and they get to thinking about what your intent is. And, you know, let them figure that out.

And while, again, they're thinking, what happens on the football field when you're thinking? you slow down. And then I just took his advantage away from him again. That's well said. Now, one thing that we're obviously going to talk about is the partnership between you and Trey Thomas. And so I'm curious what that was like for you, the two of you guys holding down those ten poles together for so long and truly building a foundation for the entire Eagles

franchise of how they've approached the offensive line position ever since. Well, I think we both pretty much had the same. same frame, if you will. I like Trays a, trade's drastically more athletic than I am. So it's just that. And what it really comes down to is what we've been talking about. Really, it's, it's consistency.

You know, he had the ability to do it. He went out and did it day in and day out. And I think, you know, especially for an organization, when you can have two tackles like that, you can try to, and, you know, over, over our tenure, you know, there were many pieces in the middle that changed around. in there that allowed that to happen. So, you know, yeah, you don't want to go into every season

and change all five guys, but I want to say there was probably a two-year run there when we played with four or five of the same starting linemen up there. So that continuity of it, you know, it becomes like your siblings and all that kind of stuff or your significant others where you complete their sentences for them because you've been in the, you've been in the line of fire so many times. That's what it really builds. And, you know, even the coaching staff, so they can game plan around, you know, different defenders, different defensive fronts. I know I had this conversation when actually before I came here with Mike Munchak, who was my own line coach in Tennessee, you know, Hall of Famer himself, like, because I'm not going to ask you to do it against, you know,

Reggie White. I'm going to have someone else, you know, go the other direction and do that play against someone that's a little less talented than Reggie White is. So the coaching staffs kind of get into that kind of thing too and game playing around to take advantage of what your skill set matchups are against, you know, from the defenders across from you. If I can circle you back to that time, leaving Tennessee and joining the Eagles, you're coming off of the Super Bowl that season.

It was, you know, Andy's first real big signing. Obviously, they made you a priority. What led to you wanting to be part of this, this sort of foundation rebuild? Well, I think that. It's a rebuild. I had this conversation with somebody last week

just talking about when you look at the roster that was in Tennessee, you know, you can start with Bruce Matthews. You can go to Brad Hopkins. You can go to Steve McNair. You can go to Eddie George.

You can go to Javon Curse. You know, Blame Bishop was there. Marcus Robinson was still there. Henry Ford was still there. like, you know, you had all these stars and you go into a rebuild and you can see, you know, all the roster cuts and the moves that Andy was making even the year before I came here. It was like he's trying to do something different and it's an opportunity to be part of that instead of just being one of the guys that's like 7, 8, 9, 10 down the list,

you're actually going to be able to put your mark on that rebuild. And, you know, thank God it worked out and it was a chance I took, but it was a great opportunity. And the thing that I mentioned before, do you sort of take pride in the fact that what you built, that foundation, has really laid the path for what has been like 25 years of pretty impressive offensive line play that really did start with you and Trey? Yeah, I mean, and it's really not anything I did besides taking the leap of faith and actually coming here. Yeah. It was just being myself. Okay. And, you know, that kind of, that kind of, you know, style to grow, you know,

and that's something that obviously I learned through Michigan football and all that kind of stuff. That became inherently who I was. And to be able to go display that and have guys kind of latch on to it and kind of make that what playing O-line in Philadelphia was all about, that that's something to take a little bit of pride in, but it's not anything I pushed. It was like, you know, go back to the old phrase leading by example. It's like, this is how I know how to play the game and I know it works.

So let's try to go out and do it. And then you got to have the back. You got to, you know, your teammates have to jump on board. And your coaches have to say, yeah, let's keep doing that. But let's use common sense and not doing critical situations and all that kind of stuff. So you have to understand your situational awareness and all that. But, you know, it was just, it was a part of the game. And it's really how I believe.

and I think a lot of people believe O-line play should happen. When you are with your old teammates, we saw you at the Brian Dawkins event last month. What are the, like, is there a recurring theme? What are the moments that you guys always sort of harp on as you reminisce? I think one of the biggest one,

and we kind of touched on it earlier, talking about playing injured. Yeah. I remember, I forget what year it was, probably like 0-6, 07, breaking my tailbone in the middle of the season. Yes. So it was, that was one of the ones, you know, the unfortunate part is the other big injuries

I had were actually in playoff run. So there wasn't even a chance to sit out. It's like you had to play. But, you know, playing with a broken tailbone, which actually still affects me to this day, like sitting on an airplane for more than like two and a half hours, like it just, it's not a comfortable, it's not a comfortable thing to be doing. but, you know, that was one of the roughest ones I ever had. And frankly, I don't think I, for probably a month, I couldn't even sleep because you couldn't roll over in bed.

You literally had to wake up and almost set up, lean forward, and then flip your hips around so you didn't brush your tailbone on the way over. I don't even know what to say. That's brutal. I mean, but that is like that you talk about dedicating yourself to your teammates and to the team and to the city. you like the lasting repercussions of that. You're a testament to it. You try to be. And, you know, it wasn't.

I can tell you, the first couple games I played like that weren't bad. I think we had like two consecutive home games and then we went on the road. And we were flying up to Minneapolis. And I couldn't even sit on the airplane. I was literally kneeling in the seat with my arms over the back of the seat looking the wrong direction because I couldn't sit. And I remember getting up for game day and showing up to the locker room. And, you know, Tom Hecker at the time was the GM.

And he comes up to me, he goes, you're going to play today? And I'm like, where's the anesthesiologist at? Because I'm not playing in this current condition. So they had to come in and, you know, dig out the Novocaine and start injecting the tailbone with Novakane. Jeez. I mean, you're making me feel like a big old wuss. But I think that's, I think that's totally fair. picture as we talk about this list, John, anybody from that time that you played with the

Eagles who you feel like maybe like today's young Eagles fan might not fully appreciate? I mean, besides your, you know, Dawkins and all that kind of stuff, I mean, you know, even, even the young guys, like most people will remember, we'll remember Troy, but Bobby Taylor, I think is one guy's forget about it often. You know, he was a special one. And then even guys like, you know, you know, Carlos Emmons, you know, a good Sam lineback who can do a lot and all that kind of stuff, you know, and then Trotter for the length of time he played with bad knees. Yes. I mean, think about all this stuff he was going through, you know, but, you know, even on the offensive side of the ball, and when you talk about, and I'm sure Brian Westbrook's on your list, you know,

you think about what he brought to the game that, you know, scared the living daylights out of people. You know, the things we could do with him in the backfield and just put him back there and, you know, and empty the backfield out and put him on a strong safety in space, you know, those type of advantages of matchups you make are, are just, you know, amazing. But, I mean, but you had on some heroes, guys like Chad Lewis that just were very, very consistent, you know, know, you know, and made plays all the time because he was where he was supposed to be. Those types of role players, you know, but, you know, every coach I've ever had, it's just like, do your job, be where you're supposed to be on time and do what you're supposed

to do, and you'll be successful. And that consistency, even though you didn't have the the God-given athletic gifts that, you know, some of the greats have, that's really what it's all about. And it really comes down to discipline and wanting to. The last one I will ask you, John, is everybody does love sort of the turn of, you know, you doing what you do now and being in charge of the discipline for the league. I'm curious, what is the time, if you remember one, where you think that John Runyon, the player would have been fined the most by John Runyon, you now? Well, pretty much, I have my litany of them from back when I played.

So the only one that, and I have a list, they're actually in a foul. cabinet in the drawer over here. That's very funny. I bring them out every once in a while. So but when you really, when you look at what the fine totals were back then compared to what our salaries were.

And you look at what they are, we were going to find a lot more back then than we do today. Interesting. That makes sense. But my one, my one biggest one, I think I got fined one time for playing against the Giants. And I attempted to leg whip someone

and did not make contact. And it still got upheld and appealed. So I'm very, very critical when I go in and do my film review on that to make sure the fouls actually happen. That's good. It's good to have you. Yeah, it's good to have you on that wall. We appreciate that.

Well, John Rudion, thank you so much for taking the time. We really appreciate it. Thank you for everything you gave to the Eagles organization. All right. Appreciate it. Good talking to you. All right. We'll be back with more on the other side here on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast.

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and a whole lot of honking good service. Route 73 South and Marlton, Elkins Chevy, telling P.HLY Central. All right, we are back on the P.HLY Eagles podcast, and we are discussing number 22 on the list of the Eagles 26th. John Runyon with, who better than the voice of the Eagles, Eagles Hall of Famer,

the great Mike quick. Mike, thank you for joining us. Hey, man, thanks for having me on, you guys. It's been too long. And I'm not the voice. I'm the guy behind the voice. Well, that's the man next to the voice. Next to the voice, yeah.

You are the conscience of the Eagles. Yeah, I'm the guy next to the voice. So yeah, man, yeah, thanks for having me on, guys. Of course, and you have seen all of this up close, more up close than anybody. And so we're going to start with John Runyon, and we want to ask you about how much he sort of changed that Eagles team when he signs in 2000. And it was sort of, uh, A declaration of intent from Andy in the front office that this was the kind of player they needed on that roster. Well, it's the kind of player that they needed for several reasons.

I think the attitude that Runyon bought to the offensive line, not to mention his skill set. John was a 6-6 guy, you know, 330 or 40 pounds, and he was athletic, could really move, could get out on the perimeter and block. He was strong enough that he could post against any rusher, any past, any past defender, any offensive lineman. I think if there was a slight, it was probably because he's six-six and he can't get down to those low, those guys who are really short and six-feet guys and they could get under him with leverage. But John Runyon was a great addition to this football team and the attitude that he bought, the worth ethic and just how hard he played. sometimes, you know, beyond the whistle, maybe. But that was John, and he was great. And I think more than anything, the attitude that that offensive line needed at that time,

John bought that nastiness, that attitude to the offensive line that helped them in a lot of games. I think that when we talk about Runyon, we are always talking about the nastiness, right? and the tenacity and the consistency, the reliability as well, which we will get to. But quickly, I do think that that sometimes undersells how good he was as a player. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's a really good point because we will many times lead with how tenacious, how nasty, we'll lead with that.

But he was a great football player. You know, playing to the whistle is not a bad thing. And that's the way he played sometimes just slightly beyond the whistle. But it wasn't a bad thing. But again, the way he played the game and how hard he played. And for me, it was that area when we started to see a lot of athletic linemen, guys who could get out on the edge and run and guys who were really good at passing off the double teams. If a guy's his guy's looping to the inside and there's a guy from the inside looping to the outside,

his ability to square up on that guy, get hands on that guy, and keep him away from his quarterback. John Runyon was a hell of a football player. And also his acquisition, his signing from Tennessee, that was like the first big hallmark free agent for Andy Reid, right? What does that say about kind of like the new era with him as the head coach? So I think with Andy Reed as a head coach, you knew, and we learned to know if you didn't know, he was going to put special attention and special emphasis on the offensive line. And that's what they did when they signed John Runyon.

And I think at the time, Runyon might have been the highest paid player at the position or highest paid offensive lineman. That's how much they wanted John Runyon. But it started to, well, helped to build that offensive line that became a dominant offensive line. And you guys know, if you can't. dominate at the line of scrimmage, you can't win football games. Any team that's successful, that are having a lot of wins, it begins with that. It begins with the ability to win at the line

of scrimmage. And John Runyon was a big part of that and a big part of the success of this team because they were able to do that. Yeah, I think it's, we will get into this a little bit more in the Trey Thomas conversation, perhaps, but it's hard to divorce the two of them together, John and Trey. And you talk about building a foundation. I mean, that was not just the foundation for those teams. It's been the foundation for the Eagles organization since 2000, is you've got these two tackles who you can rely on.

And after John and Trey, it's Jason Peters, and then it's Lane Johnson, and then it's Jordan Milata. Like, this is how Andy Reid built the team. It's how Andy Reid taught Howie Roseman to build the team. It is foundational to what has been such a good stretch for the organization as a whole. Bowen, if you look at successful teams, I really believe that you got to, first,

you have to have a quarterback for sure. But when you have a quarterback, it allows you to go out and spend your resources in other areas. And one of the main areas, the main area after you have a quarterback is that you have to fortify the offensive line and make sure that you can be really,

competitive there. When you can be really competitive there and especially if you can be dominant there. And when you talk about Trey and John working together, they were bookends and you think about when I think about, you know, that era, I think of those two guys at the same time. In fact, they went into the Eagles Hall of Fame together. And it's really because that's the way we see those guys. They were just great together. They were like peanut butter and jelly. I only know, only know of one other combo that went into the Eagles Hall of Fame together and we're talking to one of them. I think the one example, too, that kind of points to the turn of the tides with the Eagles focus on the offensive line was looking at Runyon.

And this is obviously this is pre-social media, pre-football analysis in the media was so different in the early 2000s. But I remember watching those teams, you know, this is like high school years for me and the big focus as the Eagles were trying to overtake the Giants. They hadn't beaten the Giants in years. It was like, you know, they lose nine, ten games in a row. Everybody always would talk about John Runyon versus Michael Strayhan. And, you know, obviously both guys had their share of wins,

and Strayhan was a great player. So he would get the best of Runyon at times. But what do you remember about those matchups and what did it say when things finally did turn and they were finally able to beat that Giants team? And a lot of that was on the back of the offensive line. You know, for me and for most football fans, you want to see who's scoring the points. and where the ball is going, if you're running backs

or getting off and making people miss. But during that time, you had to watch the matchup with John Runyon and Michael Strayhan. It was just must-see TV. So many times I found myself focused on the two of them and trying to figure out how that matchup was gonna even out or who was gonna win that matchup. And they had battles.

They were great. It was great to watch. In fact, when a guy singles you out, Michael Strayan goes into the Hall of Fame, and he singles out John Runyon as one of the guys who's the reason why he was standing there except in his gold jacket is because he knew that he had to work harder. He knew that he had to be ready for that matchup against John Runyon. And, yeah, that was must-see TV. That was just a great era of Eagles football.

And when you look at individual matchups, I don't remember a better one than that one, than that individual matchup, Strahan and Runyon. I want to ask you about Runyon's dependability. You know, the fact that he plays all 144 games over the course of his nine-year career with the Eagles, sets the franchise record for consecutive starts during that time,

having been in a locker room, you know, knowing that you can depend on a teammate, that no matter what he's going to be out there, and we know that he was playing through all kinds of injuries, what is the importance of that for a guy in the locker room? Yeah, that's so important. When you see how much a guy is willing to give of himself. And so, you know, anyone who play when you're fully healthy,

but then when the season progresses and you start to break down physically, but you find a way, if it's duct tape, if it's glue, you find a way to put yourself back together so that when the ball goes up on Sunday, you're there. You're reliable. They can count on you. And Runyon was certainly one of those guys. You know, I like that you make this point, Beau, because I remember a game. I don't remember exactly the team that the Eagles were playing, but we were on the road.

And I remember the night before the game watching Runyon walk around, you know, after their meetings and after their meals. And he couldn't sit down. He had a fractured tailbone or something to that effect. But the guy couldn't even sit in a chair. That's how bad it was. But when the ball, when the ball was tipped off, John Runyon was lining up and fighting and winning. Yeah, it's just kind of a hallmark of who he was as a player, the fact that no matter of what, you could count on John Runyon. And I mean, who knows how much he would be fined if he

himself were in charge of the league, given all of the antics as well. Yeah. Isn't that something? It's just amazing how, like, he began, he's the guy that everyone talked about as a dirty player hidden after the woods, diving over the piles after the whistle, and

yeah, he ends up getting the job. How serendipitous is that? John Rundon. Now is the head of fines and he's policing the league now. It's like, it's like, Abakna. That's exactly what I was thinking of. You know, the guy from catch me if you can, getting,

getting higher to catch the other thieves. It's very funny. All right, some more wide-ranging questions about the Eagles 26 for you, Mike, before we get, we're going to bring it back for number 21 on this list. But I want to, just as you think about this, you've been there watching this team up close for so long. Let's start at the top. Let's say non-quarterback.

Who would be at the top of your list? Would it be Dawkins? Would it be Lane? Would it be Kelsey? Would it be BG? Who would be number one in your book? Oh, he's ducking the question. He scared him off.

How dare you? He knows better. He knows better than to throw somebody off the bus. All right. Let's take a quick break. back with more on the other side of the PHA White Eagles podcast. We get to number 21 on the list. Stay with us. You know, my daughter was asking me the other day, is it officially summer yet? Because school has ended, camp has started, getting hot outside. I said, it's close, but it is not

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Thank you to Mike Quick. Thank you to John Runyon for joining us. Before we move on to number 21 on the list, Fran, any thoughts from you, any final thoughts on Runyon before we move on. Yeah, I just think, you know, for me, he was just a, like, the beacon of consistency and, like, the tone-setting nature of that offense, of that, that, that era, you know, that we talked about it with Mike, but, like, those battles with Michael Strayhan, that's, that's, that's one of the things that I, when I think of John Runyon,

I do think of the physicality. I loved the, the, the, uh, the, uh, catch me if you can. Oh, yeah, yeah, I like we were both thinking that, the Abagnale, yeah, yeah, the Frank guy now, thank you. But to me, like, the thinking of the stray hand battles, I was glad that you guys brought up, that you and Mike brought up the fact that like, he's always known for the physicality, but he was also a very good player.

Yeah, it was just a really good player. So yeah, I mean, the fact that, you know, you had those kind of bookend tackles really kind of set the tone for what the identity of this organization would be for the decades to come. You know, what's funny is my, my, um, time covering the team starts right after Runyon.

Uh, so I started as, an intern with Eagles in 2009. Wow. And he had moved on. Yeah. But there was a one time that summer where they worked him out. Really? He was coming off of micro fracture surgery.

And it was like, there's no way he's going to be able to play. But it was because that right tackle experiment with Sean Andrews was not going to work out. And it just, it just speaks to, you know, Andy knew the guy would bring him back if he could. His body wasn't ready. He eventually retired. But like a servant to the friend. franchise in every way. I would be remiss if I didn't say

during your opening salvo going through the genre of things. My ears perked up when you went through the number of players at each position. It's a little unfair because some positions start multiple. Yeah, but the full backs. The fullbacks, I was like, all right, let's see how many

in my brain I could do. So that was a fun little mini exercise. You want to see how many you can do? Well, this isn't off the, because I've been thinking about it now for some time. Cecil Martin was the very beginning. Then you go into John Ritchie. I remember when they signed Ritchie,

Richie's famous, do you remember with him as a player, he would get the bloody, he would bloody his nose constantly. John Ritchie, they drafted, this was one I was thinking of, because I was thinking of the fullbacks they drafted. They drafted Stanley Havili in the, that was the 2011 draft. Yeah, so he was like the last of it because it was, Havili was like the running back, fullback, high. I liked Havili too.

Yeah, I know. That was a fun, he was a fun player, but then they brought in Owen Schmidt because Havilii didn't work out. So I was thinking, like, who were the guys in between? Obviously, Leonard Weaver. Yep. I was trying to think, like, who the other one was,

and it hit me. Thomas Depey. Thomas to pay. Is that everybody? No, Weaver's not in there. Oh, because it was after. Yeah, because it was just, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Susal Martin, John Ritchie, Thomas to pay.

Josh Perry. Oh, Josh Perry is a great one. That's a great name. Now, you're going to, one, there's one who you've worked with. Who I've worked with. Oh, Dan Clecoe. Dan Cleco. Great one.

And then finally, Stanley Pritchett. Yeah. Yeah. He was in, he was in Chicago before Philly. That's right. After Philly. Okay. Yes.

Yeah. He started one game, I believe. Yeah. There you go. Last thing before we move on. Okay. We talked about this in the roundtable with Tim and Anthony. Yeah.

You and I thought Trey ahead of Runyon. Yes. They both thought Runyon ahead of Trey. We've landed with Trey ahead of Runyon. How do you feel about that? I think that's right. I was looking at my list. And I had Runyon.

I don't love to get into like, we're not bringing anybody down. Yeah. It's just. Right. It's something, you know, these are 20.

And this is one where I do think the importance of the position a little bit matters. Of course. But yeah. I had Runyon at 23. Okay. I have who is number 21 at 22. I have both of them right next to each other on my list. There you go.

Well, let's get to it right now. Number 21 is going to be brought to you by our friends at Shady Ray's. The future is bright. And it's fitting because this is a guy who would wear some sunglasses. When the Eagles lost their third consecutive NFC championship game at home to the Carolina Panthers on January 18th, 2004, they started two receivers. James Thrash finished the game with one catch for nine yards on six targets.

Todd Pinkston was targeted four times and finished with zero catches for zero yards. In the aftermath, it must have been the case that somewhere an Eagles fan stumbled across a monkey's paw. wish the Eagles had a number one receiver. A little less than two months later, that wish came true. When the Eagles completed a three-team trade to mollify the Ravens and 49ers in the wake of their disputed trade, the kind of headache that might have foretold how the next few years would play out.

Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb had their man. Philadelphia? Meet Terrell Owens. And what an introduction it was. In Tio's first game at the Link, the Eagles' second preseason game, Donovan McNabb lined up under center with an eye formation behind him on the team's first play from scrimmage at the 19-yard line. Terrell Owens, everybody, all eyes, all attention on T.O.

and how this will all work out, Jim Nance said on the CBS broadcast. Well, I wouldn't be surprised at the first play if they don't try to get him the ball, get the football to Terrell Owens, said Phil Sims. Looks his way, fires his way, he's there at the 45 inside the 20, and on the first play at Philadelphia in an eagle uniform, Terrell Owens takes it 81 yards right on the jersey number. That's how Nance called it. As the bomb was complete and off to the races, the Eagles were.

It was time to party. In week one, Owens only had 68 yards receiving, but that came with three touchdown. He topped 100 yards receiving five games in a row from week three on and the Eagles raced out to a 7 and 0 start. It was crystal clear that T.O. was the missing piece for a team ready to finally get over the hump. Act 2 began in week 15 when the first sign of the unintended consequences from this wish come true occurred as Cowboy Safety Roy Williams brought Tio down from behind, fracturing the star's fibula.

The team pressed on without him, defeating the Vikings at home in the divisional round, before finally getting over the NFC championship hump, the old-fashioned way, with Donovan McNabb throwing for just 180 yards in a 2710 victory over Michael Vick and the Atlanta Falcons. Against all odds, Tio's supercharged rehab made it seem like he would be. available for the Super Bowl, confirming to some that he was, in fact, otherworldly. He finished the big game with nine catches for 122 yards. The number one receiver had a number one receiver type game in the Super Bowl, but it wasn't enough to be careful what you wish for.

Then came the real drama, demand for a new contract, driveway push-ups, discontent with the quarterback and public and private and public again, which led to a team-issued suspension or conduct detrimental to the team. On a per-game basis, Owens was actually more productive in 2005 than 2004, totaling 763 receiving yards in just seven games, the only time in franchise history, a receiver averaged over 100 receiving yards per game. of course that obscures the reality.

The discord eventually led to divorce with irreconcilable differences cited implicitly on March 14, 2012, when the team released Owens just two days shy of two years to the day when they first acquired him. How then to remember, let alone rank such a meteoric rise and fall?

Is it better to have loved and lost to Hall of Fame receiver than never to have seen his abs at all. For now, we settle on number 21 in the Eagles 26. Terrell Owens, you were everything

the city wished for. I'll close the book on The Future is Bright, presented by Shady Ray's. Fran, I'm going to lean on you here because you were a fan at the time. A young eaglet. Freshman year of college. Okay.

I remember. remember the day that the trade was executed. Actually, I forget if it was the day. It was Javon Kirst and Terrell owns the same day. And obviously, huge excitement. Sure. I called into radio stations. I was 18 years old.

I was not allowed to do it, but so fake name, fake age. I don't know why I did the fake name. I could have kept the name. You have to be 21? It'd be 21. Oh, interesting. Yes. So I would typically when I did it, I would call,

because they used to be pretty good at being able to read through it. But so I would call it night because it was like, oh, they're just dying for people to call at night. But this one was so special. I was like, I got a call to the afternoon. So, you know, getting on and just the excitement level was palpable. What's that? We got to find that.

I mean, yeah, that'd be a fun one. But that said, I mean, it was huge. Because for years, it wasn't just like, oh, you know, like the Eagles have. had good receivers, but they just didn't have that guy. It was, it was bad. It was a bad receiving core and Donovan had no help. And so to be able to say like now they've got one of the best in the league to do it, it was huge, league shattering news to add that player to that offense. And I think it is, I think we'll get to this in a little bit, but the degree to which it was

such a phenomenon in Philly. Yeah. You know, Cuzz talked about, what it was like at Lehigh, just the degree to which this was exactly what all Eagles fans wanted. All we need is a number one wide receiver. And here he is. And the degree to which he delivered on that, everything about that

over the course of those multiple two seasons. Yeah. Because that's the thing is that like the Eagles tried to get, you know, to, you know, get, Freddie Mitchell was a first round pick. Todd Pinkston was a second round pick.

Torrance Small was a third round. round pick. Like Billy McMullen was a third round pick. Like they tried during that era to be, you know, even right after, right? You know, they move on from Terrell Owens and they, they draft Reggie Brown in the second round. They, the ensuing offseason. Like, they kept trying at that position, but they could never hit.

But you knew, like, there was no guessing with Terrell Owens. You knew you were adding, honestly, a future Hall of Famer. Like, you knew this guy is one of the best to do it in the NFL. So, yeah, the phenomenon was real back then. What is your, what is your, like close your eyes, think of Tio. What is your number one memory? Honestly, it was the, the debut against the Giants, three touchdowns. And coming back and doing that, you know, in that game,

in three different ways, right? Like, you had a deep ball, you had a red zone play, you had a yards after catch play. I mean, he had some other plays where he didn't score. But going, even like going back and watching the film of those, of that offense and of that season, his impact. Like, he was, he was everything he wanted as that,

that playmaker that, like other teams knew you had to, you had to give him extra attention, you had to account for him every play, and he was going to beat you regardless. Do you think in your mind, was that looking at the numbers, that that 2004 T.O.

season is the best of your lifetime for a wide receiver? Yes. Ah, here's the thing. Is that? I think the AJ Brown year, and I agree with what you and BLG

a couple weeks ago saying, that 2020 season, I think the AJ Brown year in 2022 would be the only one of my, like, in my waking lifetime. Yes. You know, of like my Eagles following lifetime. That would make sense. Like you could put like quick in the other guys in that,

but to me, I think looking at from this era on 2000 on, it's that season or the, but to me the novelty of it in 2004. To go from. Yes. league worst to league best from a receiver standpoint. That makes it stand out for me.

Quicks best season was before you were born, just 83. Thank you. Which was better. Yeah. The margin. Don't tell. Let's not tell Mike that, though. That was before I was born.

All right, you know what? Let's do it actually. Let's go to break. And then we're going to bring back Mike Quick to talk about T.O. And everything that goes into being a star receiver for the Eagles. Stay with us on the P. H-H-Y Eagles podcast. This summer, declare your independence from hot, miserable sleep with Ashley's

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Freedom from Hot Sleep starts today at Ashley's Stars and Stripes Mattress Sale, shop more deals in store, or at Ashley.com. Welcome back to the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast as we roll on Bo and Fran talking about number 21 on the list. And we welcome back. Mike quick. And truly, who better to talk about this one than Mike. We are talking T.O. Mike. And you laugh. Go, T.O. T.O. T.O. What a phenomenon. What a, what a supernova that season was. And what a whirlwind. the following year was as you think back on T.O. Do you do you first think to the highs or do you first think to sort of the drama? Uh, I think to the highs first. I do. The guy was just so good. He was, you know, when the Eagles acquired T.O. I remember going out the training camp and the lines to just get to Lehigh to the practice facility because of this one

superstar. And, you know, I've been to Lehigh many times, but I'd never had to sit in the lines of traffic the way we did when T.O was acquired and everyone was trying to get out to training camp to CTO. And it was worth seeing. He was worth the price of admission every time. Well, I talked about it a little bit in the intro on Tio, but it really was the way that the team had been built for so long. It was like, man, if only this team could get a real number one receiver. And then to see them get that guy and him deliver in such a way, it was such a, it was such a sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. And it was, it was unbelievable. Yeah, he's, you know, you talk about guys who can dominate their position. And, you know, when I think about Hall of Fame guys, that's what I think.

I think could this guy just go out any day and dominate his position? And he was that guy. But what Many people don't talk about guys is, and one of the things that I really appreciated about T.L. Every day, he went to work. And for young players that would come into the league and they're in that wide receiver's room and they watch the way T.O. worked, you understood what it was to be a pro and how you needed to work every day to become a pro. And I think a part of that he got from being out in San Francisco with Jerry Rice because Jerry was a worker. But, you know, every day, it wasn't just Sundays. Every day, T.O. came to work. And I really appreciated that about him.

I think there is, I think that's a very good point. Because this probably applies to A.J. Brown as well. Yes. If your perception of a wide receiver who has wants off the. the field or their quote unquote drama surrounding them. That does not mean that they are not dedicated to the craft. And you know, you don't get that good without putting in the time. And boy, I mean, you talk about the rehab to get back for the Super Bowl.

I mean, it's sort of a superhuman recovery rate. That came with like unbelievable dedication. Yeah, I don't know how you do that. That's like the supernatural kind of stuff that he bought to the party. You know, you, you break a bone in your leg. I think it broke the fibula. That's right. And in seven or eight weeks, you're playing in the Super Bowl.

That's just, that's crazy to me. But he was that dedicated. It's the first time I'd even heard of a hyperbaric chamber. So this guy was going home and sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber. And almost around the clock, he's got the athletic trainers and people working on him. he's that dedicated to the game. He was that dedicated to just being a great football player. And, you know, I don't, I rarely see him.

But even if you look at him now, the guy looks like he would walk out there and play. He's just, yeah, he's just a freak. Mike, what was the best part of his game? Like, you know, I think we've all seen the highlights and a lot of people that watch the show may not necessarily remember, you know, exactly what? What was the best part that made him special? I thought he had the speed to run away from people, even at that size, as big as he was. But I thought when he caught the ball in short spaces for a guy that big, his ability to turn, push a guy off or just outrun a guy. There were plays when he would catch the ball on a very short route and he would make that first guy missed.

And the pursuit couldn't catch up to him because he had that speed, even his biggest he was. always was, he had that ability to get that speed up so quickly that the pursuit of the safety linebackers couldn't get to him. The route running was there, not a like a Devonte Smith type of route runner, but the route running was there. He caught the ball really well. But the thing that, yeah, friend, when he caught the ball in these shorts areas and able to run away from people.

For a guy that size, that just blew me away many times. Yeah, I always thought too, and it's something we talked about earlier, the thing that stands out to me when I think of T.O. And I think back on that season, every time there was a big moment, whether it was like the debut, the first preseason game, season opener, big opponents, rivalry games, obviously the Super Bowl. He always came to play. Like that was his, that was the best version of T.O.

was when the lights were shining brightest. Yeah, and when you talk about greatness, that's when you have to show up. If you're going to be great, you can't just do it during the week. You got to do it when the big lights are on in the biggest games. And even in the Super Bowl, on one leg,

the guy was phenomenal. But that was CO. He loved the bright lights. And, you know, he took full advantage of those opportunities. when the lights were the brightest. Yeah, the guy was, he was a great player. Now, if we think about how things ultimately led to a divorce there,

at what point along the way did you start to think, all right, this is not going to last? Yeah, good question. It was the game, there was the Pittsburgh game. Yeah. It was the Pittsburgh game when they came off on the sideline and, you know, whatever his issue was, He was following Donovan up and down the sideline.

He was in Donovan's ear, and he was going. And I just, like, at that point, I said, you know, this just may not end well. I understand. That was like that was midseason in that year. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I understand, you know, I'm a receiver. I understand when, and I wanted the ball all the time because I know that I can make a difference. And I know that's the way he thinks.

Like, you get me the ball. and we're going to win. When you're really good, that's the way you think. That's the way you should think. But at the same time, you got to respect the space of that guy because he's got so many things going on, so many things that he has to account for. And there's a way to do that,

but I just didn't think that that was the way to do it at that time. You know, you're a man, you do things the way you choose to do them. But that was kind of the point where I saw this thing going south. Well, I'm curious about this, obviously, in the wake of the AJ trade. Do you think there is something to, like, having a great wide receiver, like a truly game-breaking guy where it's just, it's not meant to last in terms of a pairing with a quarterback because there's just, there are so many dynamics involved and, like, the handling

of making sure that they get the ball all the time? I don't believe that ball. Okay. How about Marvin Harrison? Yeah, that's good. You know, there are, how about Steve Largen? Okay. How about, you know, there are so many, yeah.

How about your rights? There's so many, you know, great receivers that, um, they can live in harmony, but then there are guys who are not, for whatever reason, going to, going to always be in harmony. That's just the nature. You know, we're different when we play wide receiver. That's what I'm asking. You leave us out there all alone by ourselves. And then you expect,

then you expect us to get along with everybody. It doesn't always work that way. I know. I always think about like the Jahan Dotson roll. Like, hey, Jahan, go out there and run as hard as you can, like 45 plays a game. You might get one ball. Like, yeah.

And then you expect us to get, then you expect us to get in the huddle and kumbai y'all get along with everyone. The tough life. Let me ask you this big kind of big picture. When you hear, oh, you're doing the top 26 Eagles of the century and Terrell Owens is outside the top 20. Does that feel right or is that like jarring for you?

Knowing the talent, knowing how bright he burned for that one season. So then I would have to go to the criteria. Yeah. How are we deciding this? And if it's just on talent, he's got to be in it. But then if you're on the full body, then he's probably outside of it. Yeah, I get that. I get that.

Would you rank in terms of like Eagle's impact over the course of the century, would you rank Deshaun or Tio ahead of one another? Probably D-Jack. Yeah. Because of the longevity. I think so too. Yeah, I think that matters. Yeah.

All right. Any other final thoughts on Tio before we gave you some quick hitters on the rest of the list? Tio, Tio, Tio, Tio. The guy had his own song in our stadium. Come on, man. Before we get to the list itself, I feel like it would be an abdication of our duty. If we didn't ask you about just Devante this season

and what he is stepping into and your expectations for him taking over that number one role. You know, it's funny. I had my, I've got a skinny Batman t-shirt that I wear from time to time. I almost wore that today just for you guys. I love that he's stepping into this role. And I think he's ready for the role.

I think he's been ready for the role. But I think the distribution will be a little bit different now. You know, you look back at the distribution of the ball over the past couple of years. And it's really, it's been heavily, Devante A.J. And then you mix in some Dallas Goddard. I think the distribution will be a lot different, which was. will, I think, help him to be a number one. To me, he has the talent of a number one.

He is a number one wide receiver. Because you had AJ, you know, he played the second, like an A, like a 1A or 1B. Right. But without a doubt, he's a number one wide receiver. And in this system, well, the system that I'm expecting to see, I think, think he flourishes even in this system okay there you go I mean I feel like you we tried asking him the one time and speaking number one I feel like you got to ask yeah I got let's see we get an answer this time who would be number one on your list where when who

what are you asking me both who would be number one on your list of a top 26 Eagles since 2000 quarterbacks included where backs included but you can separate the two of them if you want let's say non quarterback you got Contenders, I would say. You got Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Jason Kelsey, Lane Johnson, Brian Dawkins. So I guess Doc would be my number one if you exclude quarterbacks. But if you include quarterbacks, it's going to be Jalen Hertz for me. All right.

It will make the case. It's simply going to be Jalen Hertz. You know, he's taking this team to two Super Bowls. He's won one. And, yeah, you don't do it without. Excellent play at that position. So to me, he's number one. And excluding quarterbacks, I would put Doc up there.

There you go. Yeah. I feel strongly that Dawkins is, for me, he is my number one. So I agree with you wholeheartedly there. Yeah. You want that, you want that ring to knock. I know, but I think it speaks so much that that's, that's the impact he had, even though it didn't have that ring.

And it's not because of him that he didn't have it. Oh, no. Now, would you go wide receivers? Would you go AJ and then Deshawn and then T.O? I'd go quick. Since 2000, you still got it? By the way, I got to tell you, you know, we're talking about Tio's season and how great he was.

Receiving yards per game, Mike Quick still got him. That's it. Come on. Well, and even the record that AJ broke. Right. Extra game. A extra game. I probably did it. Listen, the record held for almost 40 years,

and I probably did it in 14 games. Give me a break. Come on. Give me a break. Absolutely. Knowing how often have you given him crap about that? I did from time. All right.

Mike, quick. Thank you so much for taking the time. We really appreciate it. Nobody better to talk about this stuff than you. Hey, listen, you guys do a, phenomenal job and keep pumping it out because I learn things when I check out your podcast. So keep doing your thing, guys. I enjoy you.

We appreciate that. Thank you so much, Mike. And that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast for Mike and Lindsay and Fran. I'm Bo. As always, we love you.