PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles at the Owners Meetings: Mike Vrabel on A.J. Brown REUNION? | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

PHOENIX — Jeffrey Lurie, Nick Sirianni and Howie Roseman were hobnobbing through the night at the NFL’s League Meetings in Phoenix and we were on the scene for the AFC Coaches Breakfast, with insight on the Eagles from Andy Reid, Mike Vrabel, DeMeco Ryans and more. Is there news on the A.J. Brown front? Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

live from the Xfinity Mobile Studio at the Owners Meetings in Phoenix. This is the PHLY Eagles podcast presented by Bet365 and Ashley, Bo Wolfe, and E.J. Smith. We are here on the scene at the owners meetings at the fancy posh, Biltmore Hotel. We've got a lot to talk about. We'll talk to the AFC coaches today. Insight from Mike Brable on the A.J. Brown situation. Talk to Andy Reed. Talk to Domeco Ryan.

a couple other people. You are going to hear from Chad Graff, who covers the Patriots for the Athletic. His thoughts, the New England perspective on the A.J. Brown of it all. We're going to be joined by Jordan Roderig of the Athletic to talk about just the general vibe here, you know, what the co-mingling of the

foy-poiloi with the Billion has been like. And then Kailen Kaler of ESPN is going to join us to talk about this situation that is brewing with heading into the season. So the NFL potentially with replacement reps again, which I think is a bit of a disaster for Eagles fans or NFL fans in general, but we'll play that down the line. We'll talk about some other Eagles things.

And then later today, E.J., we are going to hear from Jeffrey Lurie. So we'll preview that a little bit. Good to see you. How you doing? Do I'm going to join you in Shades? Yeah, I was hoping for a bigger reaction, so I'm going to do it again. That feels better, actually, yeah. Oh, you're going to do it for the whole show?

I'm not going to commit to the shades of the whole show. I'm not a big, like, I don't are a farm with the sunglasses necessarily. But, yeah, no, I am excited for the show. It's been a good, efficient 24 hours since the last time we spoke. Got a lot of news and nuggets. You've been killing it with the interview game. I just saw Shane Steichen walk by. He gave me a head nod.

So, you know, everything is good. Everything is good. We have a lot to discuss. Stiker. I don't think I've ever called him that. Let's get into what Mike Vrable had to say. Let's get to the big deal presented by our friends at Wawa and EJ. Let's sort of set the scene here yesterday.

We got the FC coaches breakfast. We spent most of our time with Nick, obviously. At the end of that, I went around to try to get a few things, talk to Matt LaFleurr about Sean Manion. Today you just posted up with Mike Brable for the entirety of the session. I was going around. How many other Eagles reporters were joining you in the Mike Brable's drug? There were probably a half dozen at Mike Brable's screen.

from the entire time. And yeah, I wanna give a testament to you. I think we made a good team there. You know, one of us was posted up making sure to cover the news and the other one. You got to go to Rome. I appreciated that. So yeah, we've got some fresh comments

from Mike Vrable on AJ Brown and the AJ Brown situation, the saga, whatever you wanna call it. I think the quote that you're gonna see most of the time with this is anything that we can continue to do to strengthen the roster, we're going to try to do. That was, you know, in response to a direct question about if,

if the door was still open for an AJ Brown trade for the Patriots. And, you know, Mike Rable mentioned the draft and free agency as ways for them to address that position and, you know, address the roster. But, you know, left the door open, I would say, for a potential AJ Brown trade. So the sense that you got, you know, you think this is likely to happen? I mean, I know the Eagles fans are tired of hearing about it. We're going to talk about it a little bit more. Chad Graff will talk about it a little bit. And I think you might be surprised by the turkeys that Chad Graf is going to put on AJ Brown being an eagle, I mean being a Patriot rather.

Yeah, I mean, it's going to be high, right? I think the sentiment from Patriots reporters that I've gotten so far is mostly that they think it's a foregone conclusion. So, I mean, who's to say that they're wrong? I mean, I think it's, I'm very interested to hear what Chad says just because I think the sentiment from Eagles fans is so, you know, just there's so much, I guess, like, they're almost weary from this conversation. They're so tired of. And I think from the Patriots side, there's an excitement level to it. So I think that they have much more of an appetite for it.

Okay. Well, that's all you got from Brable? No, no, I got plenty. I got plenty more about Brable here. Sorry, that was the newsy one. He was also asked about, you know, AJ Brown's passion for wanting to be great, right? You know, the intensity that comes from that. And I think he was probably a little bit more specific at the combine when discussing A.J. Brown's personality and their connection.

He's more, he kind of took more of a broad approach with the answer today, but I still think it's worth noting. So he said, I love the relationship I have with my players on our team and the ones on other teams that I've either coached or come in contact with. That's the beauty of this league. That's something that's special. That I have communications with a lot of those players. We all understand a professional sports players that are talented and get to this level, have some sort of ego to them. and there's a balance, they have to have that edge. So I think a coaching staff, whatever that is,

you have to balance the edge and make sure that it's helping them. So generally, again, speaking about AJ Brown, but not specifically about AJ there. And if you're AJ Brown, I think that that answer is probably a window into what AJ Brown appreciates about Mike Rable. And I would honestly probably say that he appreciates

the same things about Nick Siriani. I feel like I've been around him long enough to say that he also appreciates that Nick has that similar sentiment. I mean, Nick said something similar about Rieke Willen yesterday. Well, that's right. Yeah, I think that's a fair point. And so how, what was the dynamic like with the New England

Pete reporters? Were you guys trying to out muscle them? Was this revenge for the interloper and Howie Roseman's press conference the other day? No, by the way, I just saw Mike Grable walk by. So maybe he wants to join the show and tell us what he really thinks about the A.J. Brown trade compensation. saga here. No, I think we actually were pretty respectful, especially as Philly reporters go.

I thought we were, we were pretty deferential. There's an etiquette there. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, we definitely let them kind of get into it. I was, I was, I started with Andy. And there were, there was like, there were like two chiefs reporters there. And I could have just, you know, I was said, I sat down. I could have gone right in, but I was trying to let these guys get their questions in. You got, you got to let them do their job. Yeah, you got to let them do their job. One local reporter there, like, didn't get into like 10 minutes later. It's very bizarre. Oh, didn't get into like asking a question or showing up in general. Yeah.

Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, you know, different markets are just different. That's fine. Yeah, I would say that we were deferential. They asked a lot of the questions about AJ Brown. You know, they had interest in it and really the receiver position as a whole. Mike Brable did say it feels good about the receiver position, you know,

talking about the players they have already in the building for the record. But yeah, in terms of etiquette, I thought we were good. We all were like around the fringes. We kind of kept the one spot of the table. And I got to say, Mike Trable, he definitely like, he seems to give us a good relationship with his beat reporter, the beat reporters on that team there, you know? Well, when you go to the Super Bowl in your first year,

how could you have that relationship? Yeah, but even he said, like, he was made, sure to, like, get the local reporters questions before he took questions from other people and had, like, you know, prepared. I mean, I don't know if it was prepared, but had a, he made a point of expressing his appreciation for the local beat reporters. And he sat in there like we've had our spats, you know, we sometimes have our arguments.

So I appreciated that. You know, I think it's always good for our coach to recognize the people that travel. All right, let's close the book on the big deal presented by our friends at Wawa and put Mike Vrabel to bed. Although we will talk to Chad Graf in just a minute, EJ. Elsewhere on the AFC coaches front,

asked Andy Reid about the possibility of a new stadium in Philadelphia, because I imagine that's gonna be a topic Jeffrey Lurie later today. And he said, you know, he opened the link. He was there for, you know, he was going on from veteran stadium. So he thinks the link is pretty good. But he says if it's a dome, it'll be a loud dome.

Yeah, that is the potential for the volume added for a dome in Philadelphia would be pretty significant. I'm with Andy, though. I've said this on the show before. Our listeners won't be surprised. But I just hate this, like, you know, callous, you know, sort of detached approach with stadiums. Like, I love a stadium that's got a history and some circumstance, some, you know, some, some magic, you know?

Like, when we were at Highmark Stadium last season, like, I was like, I can't believe they're just going to get rid of this place, you know? It's like, it's okay to let something. I just, it's like, it's a beautiful old stadium. Yeah, yeah, in Buffalo, Orchard Park, whatever you want to call it. It's a, it's, there's something special. Yeah, and like, I remember I said this to Zach when we were there. I was like, you know, like, why don't they just renovate this place? Why don't they just, you know, add seats, make it more modern.

And he goes, well, it's cheaper to just build a new one than to renovate the old one. And it's like that should never be your rationale. I feel like, you know, fans have memories at these places. I just, I don't know. I think that this like, you know, turn over your stadium, tear a stadium down and just rebuild another one next to it every 20 to 30 years. I feel like it lacks a little bit of like the romanticized element of the game that I appreciate. Talk to Jeff Hathley, the Dolphins coach, about. Sean Mannyd and echoed the same thing that you hear.

Everybody talks about how hard of a worker he is. Like he couldn't believe how hard this guy works and said they got, they became very close. And he downplayed the lack of time on task as a coach because of all the time he was in the NFL as a quarterback. My Jeff Halfley take, I would say looks the most like a state trooper of any NFL current NFL. Yeah. And you know, that's topical because there's been some, some talking to chat about my sunglasses making me look like a cop. That's not what I'm going for.

It's needless to say. It's Jeff Hathley's haircut, I think, that makes him look like a cop. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you know. Did you see the jigglers? He looks a little bit like Jim Carrey and me, myself, and I read. Um, hold on. Let's see.

His hair, Jim Carrey's hairline in that movie was better, if I'm being honest. As a man who has a hairline that isn't perfect, I feel like I can say that. Speaking of strong hairline, though, have you seen Jalen Rose around, around the movie? the uh the the billmore hotel here yeah he's been around you haven't seen him at all no i've seen him a couple times i got to say handsome guy like everybody knows he's handsome but like seeing him in in the in the flesh well speaking of handsome guys i did also get to spend some time this morning with the the most handsome that's right demico ryan's talked to him about uh gerard johnson and also brandon graham uh the geron johnson thing you know demico is going out of his way to talk about

how good of a guy Gerard Johnson is, a great family man, you know, better than anything. He's a great person. But then he was asked like, why did you move on? And he's like, you know, sometimes we just felt like a change of scenery was appropriate for CETA Stratt. So, you know, there's a reason that Gerard Johnson's available. Yeah. It didn't always work out in Houston, but I think it's still, you know, it's not like he's

coming here to be the offensive coordinator. He's a good person to add to the staff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also probably important to note that, like, I can actually take D'Amico at his word there that you might have needed to turn over the staff in Houston because of the way that last season went for C.J. Stroud, but it doesn't make Gerard Johnson a bad football coach. And that was what Nick Siriani really harped on yesterday, was that Gerard Johnson is just a good football coach. All right. Let's move on.

Here's what we're going to do. I got one for you. I saw this. And I apologize because I would like to credit the reporter. while I do it. So I'm going to vamp here. Liam Cohen. Did you see this that Liam Cohen said that he wanted to hire?

So this is according to Ryan O'Halloran from the Florida Times Union. He said that he reported that Liam Cohen said he tried to hire Josh Gassard to the Jacksonville Jaguar staff, but that Josh Gizard chose the Eagle staff instead. So another interesting note from the, from the AFC coaches availability this morning. That's a good nugget. All right. Here's what we're going to do. In just a minute, we are going to bring you Chad Graff from the Athletic, giving us the Patriots perspective on the AJ Brown situation.

It will go to break. After that, Jordan Rodriguez is going to join the show to talk about just the general vibe here. And then we're going to hear from Kalin Kaler, who's going to tell us about this ref situation. And I should tell you before you listen to that, that the news has just come down, that the NFL owners have approved the use of extra oversight from New York in officiates. if in fact they do go to replacement officials this season. So keep that in mind when we have that conversation. And then stay tuned after that. EJ and I will be back with you for the later part of the show.

So for now, let's hear from Chad Graff. Stay with us on the PHAY Eagles podcast. All right, we are here with the great Chad Graff, who covers the Patriots for the athletic chat. First of all, thank you for joining me on this little makeshift standup. Of course, I like this. What a day.

Thank you for having me. All right, Eagles Patriots linked all off season long. And everybody's talking about the joint practice. That's what we saw about. Yes, yes. What did Brable say about AJ Browns today? He said a lot of nothing. He was asked a lot of times.

He said a lot of nothing. He said the Patriots will look to strengthen their roster. He said, we'll do that through a trade, through the draft or free agency, whatever means necessary. So he danced around it, I think probably similar to Nick yesterday. But I think we all kind of know at least where this is headed or at least where it seems to be headed, even if he didn't say a whole lot. So you think you think this is leading to a trade? I do. I would be surprised at this point if it doesn't happen.

The Patriots did go out. and sign Romeo Dobbs to somewhat replace Stefan Diggs, but he's not quite that level of player. He's never had the production that Stefan Diggs did at 32 years old coming off of a torn ACL. So unless the Patriots draft a wide receiver in the first round, I think A.J. Brown's definitely still on the table. So we use percentages instead.

We say turkeys. How many turkeys would you put on A.J. Brown being a Patriot. What's the max turkeys? 100. Okay. Zero to 100. I would say probably 80 turkeys. Really?

Yeah. I mean, the Patriots were just in the Super Bowl. Everything is going great for them. They have a great young quarterback that they want to build around. If you're going to go all in and make that kind of move, this is the time that you do it. Otherwise, they're going into year three with Drake May, who was an MVP candidate last year. And his number one wide receiver is Romeo Dobbs. I think he's fine.

But, man, that seems like a little bit of a disservice to a quarterback who has done this much already. And so what do you think the price would likely be? I think it's probably got to include the first round pick of next year. And then the question is, would the Eagles prefer a wide receiver? Like they have DeMario Douglas on the roster. He's kind of a swat guy, Kisham Booty. He's more of the deep threat guy. Or do they just say, like, screw it, we don't need your players back.

Give us the first round pick and a third or fourth, whatever. That feels a little bit more to me. Now, I do wonder if the Patriots might be like, look around. What's your other option? We're the one that, you know. I guess. Yeah, that would be the other option. But we're the team interested.

We're like at this point it does kind of seem like feel like they're the last team left standing at this dance and we're just kind of waiting for June 1st. And so knowing Vrabel, as you do over the past year plus, like his relationship with AJ, how much of a factor do you do think that is? I think it's a huge factor. He talked about it at the Combine. He talked about it again today. And it's not just that he has a relationship with him.

Mike Vrabble has brought him back a lot of players that he has a relationship with. He went to the Super Bowl this year. year by bringing back a lot of players that he has a relationship with. In free agency, he went out and signed Kevin Byrd, who he has a really good relationship with. He has leaned throughout this whole process on players that he has a relationship with. So again, all signs continue to point to A.J. Brown. And the, like, the Patriots fans, knowing that AJ was a Patriots fan, how much is that, like, exciting them? Every little thing that they can find that might excite you a little bit more, might, you know, make you overcome. Yeah, is he going to be in his

30s, yeah, is that a great time for wide receivers? No, but, like, hey, he did love the Patriots when he was a kid. That's pretty cool. Anything else on the, just the joint practice front or anything else, the Eagles related, do you think? The joint practices are going to be awesome. It's going to be fat. If AJ Brown is still, true.

If AJ Brown is still with the Eagles, that's going to be incredible. If he's, like, scoring touchdowns over the Patriots, like, hey, you guys didn't want to come get me, watch this. Or if he's with the Patriots and his very first, like, joint practices, preseason games is against his old team. God, that's compelling theater, too. Do you have a Jonathan Jones take for us? Awesome guy.

Okay. Super, super fast. His game's been built on speed, straight line speed. Great guy in the locker room. Kind of an interesting backstory. I saw that he mentioned in the press cards with you guys that it likes to be a pilot and fly. So a really cool guy, awesome backstory. I'll be interested to see how his game translates now that he's in his 30s

because he's always been kind of that straight line speed guy. but a really good guy that I think the Eagles got. How about Mike Pellegrino? What do we need to know about him? I don't know what done about him. So we'll see. You tell me in a couple of months when we're at joint practices, how that's going. And then last one, how happy our Patriots fans with Milton Williams?

Incredibly. And this goes back to last year, everything worked to a T for the Patriots. That's how you get to the Super Bowl after winning four games the year before that, because there was a lot of risk when you bring Milton Williams at the contract that they did, far out spending everybody else for him. That was a move for a guy who had never played 50% of defensive snaps that could have blown up in their face and instead worked out really well.

He's become a team leader and he played way better than I think people expected for a guy who was really just a rotational guy with the Eagles. All right, Chad Graff, there you have it. 80 turkeys on AJ Brown going to the Patriots. Stay with us on the PHLA Eagles podcast. If you love the NFL draft, then this is your edge. The diehard NFL draft guide is built and based off of

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Roderick of the athletic. I don't know what we're going to talk about, but let's fill some content, I guess. Yeah. What can you tell me about the Rams' interest in A.J. Brown? Oh, you know what's interesting about the Rams is that they are known internally for going through like a lot of circular dialogue constantly inside their building. So they'll game theory out scenarios and they will talk through the ifs and wins and hows and all of these things and then they'll sort of back off, right? And then they'll be back in and then they'll be out and then they'll be in and then they'll be out. And it's really interesting because it's almost like depending on what day you talk to them,

they're either stronger in or stronger out. Interests absolutely there. Depending on what Puka has done off the field recently. Sure, depending on how can we send him a message somehow without actually talking to him. No, I mean, I think it's really interesting with them because I think a lot of teams are like this, but they are so interesting with how they do go. I like how you put it, go all the way to the ledge, and then immediately pull back because they're gaming out. Here over and see what it would look like.

Yeah, they try to game out their scenarios as closely to what would actually happen as possible. So fascinating. I know they like him. I know that A.J. and Matthew Stafford get along great. Okay. That's interesting. I don't think that any of this would come at the price that it sounds like Howie Roseman is asking people to pay. And I think he would probably make them pay a premium because it's...

Yeah, and it's an NFC team. and they've been each other's thorn in the side for a couple of seasons now. And I just think, you know, we've seen it happen before, but I would say pretty unlikely at this point. Now, with the Rams, I'm saying that today, we're not on the edge of the cliff right now, maybe, you know. So it just kind of depends.

All right, let's get. The light is really good for us right now. Have you noticed that? I feel like, I mean, what a shot. Have you noticed that? Yeah, I'm created here. This is fantastic. Let's talk about just the general scene here.

And how would you describe the, For people who, you know, football fans, the intersection here of the billionaires, the coaches, and then us lowly journalists sort of intermingling together. Yeah. I'm not in this tax bracket, as you know. Yeah. I mean. And I'm feeling like very aware when my face gets sweaty around people who don't seem to sweat.

Okay. Now that's the billionaire bracket. The coach is very sweaty, right? All the coaches. Yes. And there's a lot of extracurricular leisure. activities happening. Sure, yeah.

There's a great circular bar outside. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the coaches are going to probably sweat a little bit more. But no, I always like when it's in Arizona at the Biltmore because it's a home game for you. It's a home game for me. And then it also is very, everything is one level. There's basically three places to lurk for the lowly peasants such as us in the media. Right.

There are only a couple of places for us to lurk. And you know people are going to be there. Yeah. And one of them is outside the coffee shop. That's the one I like because I also run on caffeine outside the coffee shop. Now, what's your go-to order just to cut you off? Just ice coffee. Because E.J. will say that he's a coffee snob. Ice coffee. And I'm actually kind of judging people

who are walking around 97-degree weather with hot coffee. Okay. I'm like, guys, they make it with ice now. Did you know? I'm with you. So, but I, yeah, and then so that's one of them, circle bars, another one. I don't go by the pool because I'm intimidated by that environment. But there are, there's a lot of stuff happening usually over by the pool. and then also just all of these big lobbies and courtyards.

Is there, like, are reporters like mingling at the pool? I don't know many. I think if you're like a really high level. It's like a high level. It's a status. I'm not, I would never. Well, if you are, I mean, this is also the stack rank of the reporters where there are reporters who are really just part of the league infrastructure

as opposed to on the outside reporter in the league, if that's fair. You know what I mean? You said it, you know, I mean. So I'll just let you dangle in the wind. I think you know. I think you know that that's right. Who, Bo? What do you?

I do think, though, that this is one of those where it's cool because everybody's more laid back than you ever get them. This is always the, I have not yet started to worry too much about the draft unless you're the front office or the draft board is already pretty much set if you're the front office. Everybody's seeing each other. Everybody, you know, a lot of the wives come. So everybody sees each other's wives and, like, all they all get to. together and it's just like a very before everybody starts wanting to rip each other's throats out kind of vibe you know what's interesting is i've always heard for years and years and then as different jams come into the league new gms come into the league um and different coaches and

come into the league and new coaches i always hear everybody's impression of howie because he's kind of one of the most tenured guys now it's like him lesneem jason light chris ballard like they're kind of the lifers here, you know. Howie, it's fun because everybody kind of knows him through these trade dealings and everybody always talks about him and John Schneider, obviously. I was going to say. John Schneider, can I just say? This guy likes the party.

He's a vibe. Yeah. But he's like that consistently. I agree. It's not just winning the Super Bowl that's done this. He's consistently a vibe. I feel like he probably, like other GMs and coaches probably feel like he's maybe the greatest hang in the league.

Okay. I think that's fair. It's a hot take. Howie would say that Schneider is like his favorite other GM in terms of like who he gives credit to. But you know what? That's really cool because I think that him palling around with Schneider, people see that and they're like, man, that Howie's pretty chill too.

And everybody gets. I would, one thing. But everybody, what I heard. And I think Howie would agree with that. The one word I would never use to describe Howie is chill. But he's getting, he's getting like the side benefit. He's getting like the cloud from the chill cloud. Okay.

You know, but no, the thing that I think is really funny is hearing, we always hear about how, like, he can be so aggressive in the trade dealings, and he's always looking for, like, the extra edge and all of these things, he's super aggressive about it. And then when we come here, everybody's like, man, he's so nice. Oh, he's so, and I'm like, this is how he gets you. Yeah. He reels you in. Well, he's been doing it for long enough, and he knows how to play the game. Yes. It's also, that's an interesting part of the AJ thing.

Like, if you believe that something's going to get done with the Patriots, and it's just going to end up being. their future third, the future first and something else. Everybody knows how he's been asking for the moon. Can he afford to send the message to the rest of the league that he's actually willing to take less when he is known as this dogged negotiator? I know it's kind of a double-edged sword for him at this point. And the other part of it, too,

is he can't not ask for the moon because then it's an insult to the player. Yeah. So he's put in a spot here. I don't pity him. He's making millions of dollars in one of the most successful GMs in NFL history. But I do feel for the situation.

I understand it's a tough spot to be in because yes, you do feel like you need to move the player. The player seems like he wants to be moved. You don't want to necessarily competitively move the player. But then you also have to say, okay, well, I can't ask for less than absolute top value because then it's telling the player it's not, you know, it's sort of lowering his status a little bit.

And also, among all of these other guys, if you suddenly start asking for lower value than you're reputationally known for, what's wrong with them? Right? What's the problem? Well, exactly right. Yeah. The other thing that I enjoy about the, like the mingling is seeing a first time head coach

or first time you're in here. It's the best. Like getting, you know, they're like a puppy dog and they're, oh, they're like, they're happy to talk to anybody. And then, you know, you see them two years later and they're just so, you know, it's like the presidential aging. They're just like so over this whole thing to some degree. That's a fun.

It's a fun. I know. And then you see a guy like Sala, who's now bad. back? Yeah. What's it like for him? He's back at, I think, double his previous salary. Oh, okay. So it's like, it's awesome for him. And I think there, he seems very like, um, he's always been really confident. I agree. I like that he misplaced perhaps. He's a good coach. Like I do we know that as a head coach? He runs a hell of a defense. Okay. I agree with that. So we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. We'll just have to see. Okay. So, but I,

I think that it's funny because you get from all these guys have known each other for so, most of them, I've known each other for so long. And then you get some of these guys who come in, who basically have either worked under some of these other coaches or who grew up watching some of them. Yeah. We're at that stage right now where like the Clint Kubiaks, who yes, worked for Kyle Shanahan for years and all of that and also for Gary Kubiak for years. But he's like sitting down the row from Mike Brable, who he watched play in the Super Bowl.

Yeah. who and Andy Reid, who he's watched on TV and like all of these things and I and Joe Brady who literally is I think two years older than me. And so is like, of that I know I'm very young. How are you feeling by the way about? Oh, terrible. Are you about to turn 40? I feel awful. Oh, my God.

No, but it's, I got this mouth situation is awful. I would imagine it would be crazy to look across and be like, oh, these are, I was talking with an executive just earlier today who was. said something really, I think, smart, that it's important for even the people who don't necessarily have a huge role to play in a front office or on a coaching step. It is important, and certainly for these new head coaches, to come and see how the machine operates and to come and see how much bigger than your team, all of this is. And at this resort, the league hits you over the head with it. I think that's right. It's impossible not to leave here without some perspective. The last thing I want to ask you about, which you can speak to better than anybody, is like,

those dynamics, right, where there's the whole Shanahan McVay tree, and there's so, like, I don't know, half the head coaches in the league are connected in some way, right? And for a long time, Nick, I think, sort of bristled at that. Like, I don't get enough credit for what I have done. Everybody's always talking about how smart these guys are. Well, I usually beat them. Like, where's my credit? And I think he sort of, you know, embrace that chip on his shoulder. But now he hired one.

Now he hired one. Yeah. And so it's not even like if I can't beat him, join him. It's like, I could beat him, but now I kind of need him. And it's, I don't know, it's just a funny thing for Nick to now, you know what, as much as I want to stand on my laurels, and maybe this is not all Nick, maybe it's a little bit of Howie. Maybe it's a lot of bit of Howie. But, okay, now we've got to start a barrow from that. I love how interested, you see it in action here, how interested Howie is in the football operation of everything.

It's a really good eavesdropping place, I'll just say. and I really love how interested he is and interested in learning every detail about the scheme that it is. On-field stuff included, yes. That it is that, you know, the Eagles are about to try to run on offense. There you go. Yeah.

All right, Jordan Rodriguez. Just to, you know. If you want to, like, learn more about the system, what's the name of the podcast? I forgot. No, go, yes, it's been around. Throw me a bone here, people. It's called the Play Collars.

I made it a couple years ago with the great Mike Smelt. And, yeah, you could go learn about the system that Philadelphia Eagles will now be running in the history of it, which is very important because you're going to see, I think, a version of it that's more akin to the older version of it, but with more modern style of player, which I think is going to be really, really fun in Philadelphia. If it works, we'll see.

I like that. And don't forget about the NFL Daily podcast. NFL Daily with the great Greg Rosenthal, who would kill me in my sleep if I did not mention that on this. show. Hi, Greg. Back on the page of the Eagles podcast after this. It's March.

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continuing our series of of interviews with this great lighting that we have so good with the great kailen keeler of ESPN kailen how are you with this is a big like if you want to watch somebody do work this week i feel like you are the one to watch because you are you are so good at just bothering people in a in a in a such an awesome way as a reporter you're the best Thank you. I feel like I haven't done enough of that this week, but I'll be back on it shortly. I heard you did some good reporting about a bottle of champagne last night. Oh my gosh, yeah, that was crazy. Good for you.

They told us that someone had opened a tap. You got to find out who. Well, we did find out. Yeah, I found out. Yeah, because I was like, we can't be accepting gifts from just anyone. There's journals and ethics, you guys. Absolutely. We have to be wary of where.

Now, this is not the place, I would say, in generally, general speaking, to feel good about journalism ethics? No, no, it's not. It's not at all. But I respect yours. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I mean, I'm only saying it because it's true. All right, let's get to the league potentially going down a self-destructive path here, which is potentially going to replacement reps again.

Yeah. Yeah, so on Monday, what day is it? No, sorry. On Sunday. On Sunday, we spoke to several league sources who made it very clear that the league is preparing as if the CBA is going to expire with the officials without a new deal. Like, they are preparing as if they're going to have to, the official's going to be locked out. May 31st. Okay.

So exactly two months from today is when the CBA officially expires. And the negotiations, per the league sources that we spoke to, have gone so poorly that, and they characterize it as that they are not going well. And there's a lot of frustration. You can just tell from, and I've spoken to parties on both sides here. Like I've talked to people with the referees union. I've talked to people with the league office. And the sense is very, there's a lot of animosity. There's a lot of frustration and not a lot of actual negotiating going on.

A lot of just from what both sides have said. is like they don't seem to be listening to each other at all. And so because of that, the league office, the league sources that we spoke to said that the league's mistake, the last time that this happened when the officials were locked out in 2012, they have had a successful CBA since. It was a disaster. So their 2019 CBA was like a smooth negotiation, no big issues. 2012 CBA, the officials were locked out.

They went with replacement referees, replacement officials. but the league did not start planning for that until July before that season. I think probably because they thought things would be resolved. And they weren't, and so they essentially didn't have a good enough or long enough ramp-up period to get these college. And in that case, some high school officials up to NFL speed. And I'm not even sure if it's actually possible to get them up to NFL speed, even with this timeline of starting now, because they are starting now, they have put the feelers out, they are going to start conditionally hiring people in May.

In May they're going to start putting out conditional offers. Scabs? Yes. And they're going to start training these replacement officials, even before this deal expires. They can't actually pay them until this deal expires. But they can put out these conditional offers. They can get them onboarded.

They can start, like, you know, introducing them to concepts and things like that. So the league is really operating under this mindset. that this is not going to be bad. However, I realize that's leverage. Right. And their bet, it seems like, based on some of the rules proposals, is they can mitigate having a lower quality ref by having more league involvement in the games.

Yeah, and the owners are probably, I'm assuming that's going to pass unanimously. Especially with the possibility that they might have to use replacement reps. Yeah, and so they'll be voting on that this afternoon to pass that. And what it would mean essentially is it's a pretty broad rules proposal as it's written. It literally just says to give the officiating department more oversight in clear and obvious mistakes, I think is what it says.

Like the ability to essentially, if a flag is thrown and it's obviously wrong, pick that flag up and move it along. Or just to be able to honestly reverse decisions from New York that are wrong because you are going to have a lot of wrong judgment calls from officials that are not used to. working at NFL speed. Like this is a really hard, like the reason why there's so many complaints and criticism about NFL officiating is because it's extremely hard and there's never going to be perfect officials. But what the NFL wants in this negotiation is more ability to get rid of the poor performing officials or to what they'll say is continue to train and develop them. But what they really mean is they want to be able to put them on a pip. Yeah, they want to be able to put them on a

and they want to also have another year to just fire them without showing cause. So just to be able to get rid of because they rank the officials in three tiers, tier one, tier two, tier three, based off of their evaluation system of how they perform. And the tier three officials from the league sources I spoke to, they genuinely believe if they can either improve the tier three officials by offering them more training and development during the dark period, which we're in right now, where as they're part-time jobs, like the NFL is not, they're not able to, to require the officials to work right now.

So they can't require an official to go work in a spring lake. They want to be able to require an official to go work in a spring lake to improve their performance. This all sounds like great, but it's also just like giving the officials less of an ability to save their jobs or to actually continue in their jobs because they don't have access to the grievance process in the probationary period, which is now three years. The NFL wants to add a fourth year to it. Anyway, so NFL is talking, league sources is talking a lot about how they just want to improve quality of officiating that's all they're trying to do but obviously this comes down to

money it's really about money because the NFL referees association wants a pay increase yeah they want a pay increase that is on level of what officials and other professional sports are making and they that doesn't sound crazy to me it doesn't and um but the question that everybody always asks is why not just make them full-time and I agree I think I think optics-wise the league should just do that yeah because then we would all just stop talking about it And even if it doesn't improve the quality, which it wouldn't, it would improve the equality likely, but it would not create a perfect officiating system

that's never going to exist. There's always going to be errors on the field that are going to be dramatic because it's such a fast-paced game and the stakes are so high. And things are happening in such a tiny minutia. You've got to make decisions in a split second. So it's never going to be perfect.

But I would just do it for the sake of like, okay, you guys wanted this? We did it. Yeah, but it is more complicated. Want to be full-time? It's, that's a complicated question because there are some of them who have like some of them Power lawyers. Yeah, and the league and the league's current proposal, league sources said they have put on the table to make the 17 referees full-time employees. And they would travel to New York on Tuesdays from wherever they live, which is all over the country.

And they would like meet with the officiating department, league office people hash that out and study and whatever. And then they would go back to their crews on Saturday when they get to their game site on Saturdays and they would go over everything. everything and that that to me sounds like a great idea however you run into an issue from a union perspective of if you make the referees full-time employees are the referees on management are the referees out of your bargaining unit so for that reason I think there is probably going to be pushed back on that simply because does that take them out of your bargaining unit does your union then lose power possibly so that's okay that's a layer there but then also most of these referees I think the average compensation for a game official is $350,000. Now obviously this varies based of how many years

you've been doing the job. For the head wrapper for any position. Now referees make, I think it's like this, don't take this as actual fact here, but my brain is telling me $20,000 more than other positions is what the referees get. It's not a huge, it's not a huge increase over the other positions. So a lot of these guys have jobs. that are very lucrative in other fields. Like they are lawyers, their own business. They're like CEOs of businesses. They're doing a bunch of other stuff

that is making them probably more than their NFL officiating careers. So I think you run into that issue of, are these guys going to want to give up their other jobs? Can the NFL afford to pay them at a rate where they will agree to give up their other jobs in order to do this full time? Now, I also think, like, there's this whole thing about, like, oh, they only work two days a week.

Like, someone from the league office literally said that last night. Well, that's my question is. And it's such a myth. Like, that's not true. They are working way more than two days a week during the season, during the season. It's like saying coaches only work. Like, they travel. It's true that they only spend, like, one to two nights a week on the road per week.

That's true. But they are watching film. They are studying the team they have next. Yeah. They're watching the past game to see what mistakes they made, where they could have been better, based off the feedback they get back from the officiating department. So it's not like they just show up and they're like, cool, we got a game today. Let me put my uniform on 30 minutes before the game.

They are doing a lot of work ahead. Is that how the league positions not having them be paid as? I mean, it's the most lucrative sports league in the country. Why shouldn't it be the most lucrative refs? Exactly. And they'll say, well, you don't work that many games. Okay. Well, yeah, you don't work that many games, but they work all the games.

There's just less games because of the nature of NFL players are not making, well, I guess they are kind of making less money than baseball players. Yeah, they are. Yeah. So, yeah, but it's like, yeah, they're working the full inventory of what you're asking them to do. So, and I don't think it would be, personally from what I know about officiating, I don't think it will be hard to fill their time at all. I think it would be very easy, you'd be like, right, here, you're going to do this many hours of film study.

You're going to do this many hours of virtual reality. Are they using virtual reality? Quarterbacks are using virtual reality to not... I was just talking to a college quarterback the other day who... Flex. Flex, big flex. Who literally just does this at home all the time. He puts it on.

He sees their own practice film. It's like so cool. Like you could be doing that with officials, easily doing that with officials. You could be having them, you know, study rules together. Like the rules are the hardest part. And any official, when you talk to them, they'll say you're not a good official to your fifth year. And that's also an interesting point because one of the sticking points in this negotiation, too, to get really in the weeds, is that the league wants the ability to have a first year official be in the Super Bowl if they're good or not. Oh, okay.

Because right now you have to be... And the seniority of the union doesn't like that. Yeah, right now you have to have three years to be eligible for a Super Bowl. Yeah. And it might be two years to be eligible for the postseason. It's either two or three years to be eligible for the postseason. That feels like a fair ask. If the guy's that good or woman.

But how often is that happening? Like, let's be totally honest. Like, you might be, you might be great. You get a phenom though. Why not? I mean, maybe, right? And they'll say, well, why you wouldn't prevent Patrick Mahomes from being in a civil role?

It's like, yeah. But, like, anyways, I don't know. Just from what I know about officiating, I'm like, it's a silly sticking point on both sides, I think. Because, like, who cares? Put the best people in the, put the best people in the playoffs. If they've actually graded out to that degree. And if you're, but that's the other.

issue. The referees that I've ever spoken to and the officials I've spoken to common complaint is they don't like their evaluation system. They don't think it's transparent enough. They don't know exactly what they're being graded on and also the leadership of the officiating department has turned over like three times in the last I think seven years and every time it turns over they change the grading they make changes to the evaluation system where the officials never feel they know exactly what they're supposed to do. Right and then you know the points of them since come out every week during the season

they're like, well, actually, now we don't want you calling this penalty. And then it'll change the next week. Oh, actually, we do want you calling this penalty. So it's always difficult for the game officials to feel like they can keep up with, like, what they're supposed to be doing. And then every crew to get really in the weeds, every referee has a different philosophy. Some of them want to call every foul. Some of them just want to call the big fowls. And sometimes that philosophy comes from the leader of the fishing department, and then that's always changing too.

And that's why you see some years, like there was the year where there was the, I think it was last year, the rise in offensive off sides because of the tush push. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were calling offensive of off sides. It didn't even make sense. Yeah, and then they realized, oh, wow, we just negated a play that it had nothing to do with that one receiver being a toe over the line of scrimmage. Like, now what? Okay, now we're going to get ignore this for the rest of the year because everybody got mad about that.

So it's always changing and so, yeah, that's why the whole thing is so complicated because a lot of officiating is sort of subjective. and the grading is subjective. And then when you're trying to codify the grading because you have a CBA, it gets really difficult. And then, yeah, so I don't know how much the viewers really care about this stuff, but you will care when they're locked out. Well, you'll care when they're locked out

and you'll know, I guess, what got us to this point. But I will say, as I've been trying to talk to, the last thing I'll say before I go back in there and try to talk to people is, as I've been trying to get more info on this. coaches will not talk about it because they issued a gag order. The league issued a gag order and said everyone's prohibited from speaking about this. You know, but as I've just kind of been talking to people like owners,

I've talked a few owners and Jed York was on the record. And he was like, I trust the, he's like, I don't know anything about this. I trust the league. I trust the league. And I've heard that same thing from a few people, which like, sure, it might be the party line. But like also I do think there's like, and the elite source told me this. There isn't like a panic about going to replacement officials because they do feel they have a way better plan this time around

and they have the technology, so many more cameras, and they have this ability to, like, be in their ear from the league office that they didn't have the last time around. Rogers going to be rep in the games themselves. Yeah. So I will say, like, I don't know.

And again, it could be a total leverage play so that the officials don't have the leverage of the 2012 fear. But I don't actually, I'm not getting the sense that there is a fear of 2012 because I do think the league office has sold, sold this to the owners of, like, we got it, we got it covered this time, like, and literally a league source was like, you're not going to notice a difference between, and I was like, okay, like, that to be

was ridiculous. Yeah, that's a little bit ridiculous. I was like, that's actually a ridiculous statement. I have a quick non-ref question. As you follow these league stuff and with all the owners, what's your sense of how involved Jeffrey Lurie is and like what his sort of power role is and all of these things? Among ownership? Yeah. I have no idea, actually. I wish I did. I feel like he's kind of a big deal. I don't know, though. I think there are certain sections in which... I don't even know what committees he's on.

Do you know what committees he's on? No, but he's all about, he's, you know, he's all about 18 games. He's all about international games, growing the game. Those are his big pet projects. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I only know that the titch push is going to be okay. Amen to that.

We're going to let the natural order of football work that one out. There we go. as we should have last year. That's right. Kaelin, thank you so much. Thank. Great insight. Back with more of the PHA Yagles podcast.

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and it applies to standard general pest control treatments designed to help your home and keep it protected from copy. seasonal pets. Just mention or enter the code spring five when booking to receive 5% off your service. Learn more at Evanspestmgmpt.com and tell them your friends at PHLI sent you. All right, we're back on DHSILI in this podcast. Joe and EJ, how you doing? We braved a brief little brainstorm there. Yeah, I mean, it was no big deal. I'm under an umbrella. You know, I'm going to plan ahead.

Doing well. I got to say, you know, I've said it before. I feel like, like every off-season event I'm going to be saying this. You know, Bo Wolf, your favorite reporter's favorite reporter. Great work by you. Great conversations. And again, I mean, what a lineup. So shout out to you. Chad and Jordan and Kailet.

Great trio. Great excitement. So we're going to hear from Jeffrey Lurie in a little bit. It could be three hours from now, it could be six hours from now. What are you expecting to hear? You know, I'm expecting, I'm not expecting to hear like, major news today. You know, I'm not expecting, you know, big stadium announcements or there's not really like a big

player announcement that you would expect from him. You know, there's not like that notable retirement that we've had in years past. I think he's going to talk about an 18 game, well, maybe not talk about an 18 game season. I think your point with Kalin is right, that that is something that's on his mind, but maybe he has to be careful about that. I think that's the nature of this, though. I think there's going to be a lot that he can't say much about. I think he'll probably love talking about the international games.

you know how important it is to grow the game but yeah there's not that like one big newsy thing that we're going to hear from Jeffrey laurel at this time it's too bad maybe he'll surprise us you never know we're still going to be plenty yeah maybe I think there's going to be plenty to still hear from him about I'm very curious to hear what he says about the way that the offense looked last season the new offensive staff that's put in place we all know that he has a vested interest in the way that the offense looks and you know wants it to look a certain way I think so what he says about Jalen Hertz I don't think he's going to say much about AJ Brown, but I think, you know, well, you have to ask the question.

It'll be good to hear what you got to say about that. So it'll still be an important press conference, but yeah, I'm not expecting to, you know, be frantically posting something on the other side of this one. Okay, so we will have you covered with whatever comes from that on our PHLY channels and then you and Les are going to be back tomorrow to unpack some of the bigger picture stuff that comes out of that. Thank you for doing that.

Speaking of press conference, some questions about the Brandon Graham mystery press conference, CJ. You got any insight there? Yeah, I don't think that this has anything to do with the roster move. I don't think that this is going to be about Brandon Graham playing next year. I think it's safe to say that. You know, I think that that's to be determined. I do not think that there's a big announcement that impacts Brandon Graham's status going

in the next season coming today. I think that's probably right. We'll see what happens. All right. What did you think of the party last night? and if we ever put this vlog together, I'm going to repeat a joke, but came pretty close to touching some ass last night, E.J. I really don't like this joke. I came pretty close to touching the donkey that they had in attendance at the party. They usually like to have some kind of like animal attraction at these parties.

I know you're touching ass, man. I love most, I love most animals, you know, unlike you. That's not one of my red flags. So I did not touch the donkey as much as I wanted to. There were like actual kids that wanted to touch and get and feed the donkey. So I mostly just appreciated the donkey's presence. Olivia Reiner, friend of the show, did feed the donkey though. So I got a video of that. What do you think the purpose was the donkey? I guess just to entertain the kids.

I think it's like a billionaire flex. You know, it's like if you're having a party, why not? The petting zoo a couple years ago was absolutely a billion. I feel like it's a lot of this. A horse, I mean, a donkey. Anybody can't get a donkey? I don't know about that. I mean, I certainly can.

It was a fun party, though. Enjoyed, enjoyed seeing everybody. Got some good face time, got some, you know, got some good food. You get these sights or sounds that are worth passing along. I could say, I did notice late in the night, Julian and Jeffrey spending quite a bit of time with for Roger did. I did notice that as well. You know, I'm not, this isn't quite a nugget.

I think it's a good tease for tomorrow's show. A conversation I enjoyed having that you may or may not have been a part of is like who's going to be the next wave of the like the core four? You know, who are those players that are going to become the spokespeople for this next wave of Eagles players? And I'm going to tease it. We'll talk about it tomorrow with less. Maybe if you want to give your opinion on it, I have some names here. But, you know, I thought that was a fun conversation last night that, you know,

kind of those players who are shaping up to be, you know, the players that are kind of like those natural replacements for Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Lane, Johnson, and Jason Kelsey. I think there are, I think there are six candidates in my mind. I've written down, yeah. So Jalen Hertz, Devante Smith, yep, Jordan Milata. Yeah, you know, I had six too. And it's Jordan Malat's birthday today. That was going to be my hook into this is that, you know,

Jordan Marada's birthday. And it's starting to feel like he is turning into that, that core member for sure. And then Jordan Davis. Yep. Perugheyne and Quignon, McIntyre may not be the outspoken person here, but I think you can make a case that he might be the guys who will last long.

So I think you just did seven. You know, math is not my strong suit. That was six. Three on offense, three on defense. Okay. I put Jalen Carter in there over,

Cooper to Jean or Quinion Mitchell, mostly because I really wanted to let all the players in this, I wanted them to be a little bit older, you know, guys who will be retirement age around the same time. So I think Cooper to Gene and Quinnian Mitchell both have very bright futures, but the phases that Maillata, Jordan Davis, Devante Smith, and Jalen Hertz are in, it's all kind of a line. Well, why don't we continue this conversation each day in older time? You did it. I was surprised you were, I didn't know if you were going to do that. Jordan. Happy birthday.

Yeah, 29 today. Hopefully he gets some Macas. Or some HJs. Some Hs. You got any good party stories? Anything from the party? Let's see. Trying to think.

Not really. What about the water lady? Were you there for the water lady? Oh, yeah, that's right. The water, this was very funny. You should tell us. There was a group of reporters. Who took the first water?

I don't think we should say. Oh, okay. Yeah. But it wasn't a league person, was it? There was another one. No. I mean, no, it was a league person. Yeah.

It was later in the night, you know, most people were getting after it to some degree. So waters were, you know, a hot commodity. And a woman carrying a tray of, you know, some water bottles was walking by and one of the people we were talking to grabbed one. And you could tell that the waitress was not happy about that. You could tell. I couldn't tell. It felt like, you know, this is like a pastored durbs at a wedding situation. These seem like they're a fair game.

E.J. grabs another one. Now, I go like, you know what? I'm going to grab one of those two. And she just about bit your face off, gave you the nastiest look that I've ever seen. you get she was furious she's like bringing these to someone else she's very unhappy and you know you guys all know me I'm I'm not the type of person that once upset anybody so I was very surprised I didn't know that she was mad about the first person taking the water I had no idea she she like knives coming out of her eyes just piercing you that was nuts and you know what like I actually understand it from her perspective like she's

probably taken water to some very important person's family, right? They weren't that important. She's got five, she's got, yeah, okay, whatever. She's got five bottles of water. I want you to hear this, CJ. There's nobody here who is more important than you. Do you understand that? But you know, at the very least, like the status of whoever that water was destined for by this past system that they are trying to foist upon you, okay? You are of equal, if not great, greater value than everybody else here, okay? I think that was a nice pep talk, but you understand that like she probably had somebody who was perceived to be important to bring five bottles of water to.

She turns up with three. She's gonna get in trouble. She's gonna get flack. We ask for five bottles of water. I get it. I get it from her perspective. So I put the hand up on that. I don't think she was asked for five. I think she was over delivering. So that's what I messed up. I messed up her over delivery. I get it. I then watch to see where she went. No big deal. Nobody yelled at her. Yeah.

But listen, I get it. I get it. We all have a job to do. That's what I always default to, right? We all got a job to do. All right. Well, good stuff today. Good stuff here.

Good stuff to you. Great stuff. Appreciate all the guests. It was good insight. Can I say one thing about the replacement refs before we get out of here? Yeah, please. It's just like it's crazy. to me. You know, the idea that the NFL is more focused on like saving money in this very like,

I mean, in the grand scheme of the finances, it's a very minuscule thing for them. And in the grand scheme of like the integrity of the game, like the whole thing, the foundation of the sport, it's like, can we save a little bit of money here and risk that? It's insane to me, the level of prioritization. I think it's Seth, Seth Wickersham that refers to NFL teams as billion dollar lemonade stands. And I, like, that's all I could think of that. It's just like these guys, man, like priorities have to be in place. Yeah, I mean, I am, I'm willing to wait a little bit on this one because there is a long lead up here.

Even if the thing expires May 3 1st, this is leverage for them to put these plans into place. If they actually enter the season, then I think they are cutting off their nose despite their face. And it's a little bit better. Yes, I agree. Yes, he won't notice a difference. Good reporting from Kalin. And a great, just like a great. handle on all of the different dynamics.

Yeah. Yeah, awesome. It felt like she was like venting to you about all that she had heard almost, you know? Like it felt like she needed to like talk it through with somebody. Anybody wants to come on the show and vent? I'm happy to have. Absolutely. Oh, one last thing.

Okay. I wore a t-shirt and blazer to the party last night. Yeah. And one Zach Berman was very upset that you had nothing to say about that. Thank you. I thought so too. But then my favorite part about the story. So Zach was definitely a little upset that you didn't have a comment.

You didn't bring it up on the show. I brought it up just now. But Zach Berman turned up today in a T-shirt and Blazer combo, which means I'm a trendsetter, Trailblazer, I forge the path to start wearing it again. And I'm proud of that. Yeah, I don't know that there are a lot of fashion similarities between the two of you, but I'm glad that he was able to.

I think there are similarities in other avenues, but yeah, I don't know if we dress the same. You're certainly not shopping in the same places. That's not nice for either, but yeah. You know what? I really am a trend center because blast is for the show today. That's true. You're just saying.

I think it was a good luck. Yeah, absolutely. Coined it, as the chat has pointed out. All right, good stuff. Thank you to Lindsay for putting it all together on the back end. We will be with you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. Eastern Time, E.J. and L.S. and also we'll have you covered from everything you need to know about Jeffrey on our P.H.O.I. Channel today. Thank you again. To Chad and Kalin and Jordan. Thank you, E.J.

For all of us here at the Biltmore, including Jerry Jones, Josh Harris. Should ask Jeffrey about the Epstein files? You can. Inappropriate, I guess. Anyway, maybe not. That's all we got. We will talk to you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. And as always, good luck.