PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Camp Countdown: Will Tyler Steen win the RG job to start on league-best offensive line?

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

The training camp countdown continues with the offensive line. The big story will be at right guard, where Tyler Steen will try to win the competition at right guard. The other four starters are entrenched: Jordan Mailata, Landon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, and Lane Johnson. Who will be the backups be behind the starters? Fran Duffy and Zach Berman discuss. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good afternoon and welcome to a Tuesday edition of the PHLY Eagle Show brought to you by TrueMark Financial Credit Union. I'm Zach Berman. That's Fran Duffy. And we are two weeks out from training camp. So I can't use the trash line anymore. I'll just ask you, Fran. This is Offensive Line Day. How excited are you to hear the cracks of the pads when you get out there? Very excited. You know, obviously look. you know, we won't get a great sense of it until we get into, you know, day five, day six. Once we see the pads officially get on

and then we get the real crack of the pads, even if it's not live action, you still get to see those guys start the one-on-one drills and things like that. Obviously, there'll be plenty of depth-chart minutia for us to comb through as camp gets underway, which we'll talk about here in this episode. But definitely a lot to chew on, certainly,

as we talk about this group going into 2025. Five. Minutia or minuté, depending upon who you ask. So, yeah, I can give you the whole preamble. But today is the football guys episode, right? Today is, look, we talked quarterbacks yesterday. That's the first take day, right? This is, this is you, you know, this is your NFL matchup day here because we are talking offensive line.

We are talking when, when I'm over there watching seven on sevens. and keeping the passing stats and seeing the skill players. Fran Duffy and Bowulf are on the other side watching one-on-ones. They're seeing Jeff Stoutland get on these offensive linemen. They're seeing snap by snap how that right guard competition is going, which is the perfect way to start this, right? You have to get to the big story at the top. And really, even with an offensive line that has,

has pro bowlers at left tackle and right tackle, left guard and center, or at pro bowl caliber players, I should say. All eyes this summer will be on right guard. That's the question. Last year, there was obviously Mackay Beckton. He wins that competition. He leaves. The year before that was Cam Juergens. The year before that was Isaac Samaloo. So the Eagles could be on to their fourth starting offensive line in four years, fourth starting right guard in four years. And it would seem going in the camp that the frontrunner for that job is Tyler Steen. From your perspective, is this Tyler Steen's job to lose? I think as we sit here based off what we saw in the spring or what you saw in the spring,

I was not there, but what you saw in the spring, I think we have to say that he is probably in the pole position, right? But I think when we're looking at Tyler Steen, what's fascinating to me, you know, the parallels, the dynamic that I have drawn, And, you know, the comparison I've made over the last couple of years is people have started to kind of give up on Tyler Steen and say, like, oh, he's maybe, you know, the staff doesn't like him. And so, look, this is very similar to the arc that we saw from Isaac Siamalo, a player that you just mentioned that held down that job for a couple of years. That, you know, he was a rookie in 2016. It was a rookie backup. And then we saw in 2017, he started the year, it began the year as the starter. And then had that rough outing on the road against Kansas City in week two, week three, got benched.

And that's when we saw, you know, was Nuski come in. And we saw, you know, that he became more of the starter by that point. Certainly was the starter by the time we got to the Super Bowl. Sam Malu wasn't really the full-time starter until you got to year three. So now we're here at this point for Tyler Steen. And it's the now at that time, is he going to take the full, you know, fully take the reins of that job? Or, and look, this would be a fine outcome as well. Is he more just like you're a really good six man, you know,

and where he can be that swing back up at left tackle, right tackle, left guard. right guard, that is a fine outcome for Tyler Steen as a draft pick as well, you know, where he got taken. But ideally, you'd like him to be an every down player. Yeah, well said. So the, the background for Tyler Steen for the, look, if you're watching the show on July 8th, we know you're a diehard. Literally a diehard probably on all p.g.com or hopefully I should say, but also a diehard Eagles fan. But just to kind of set the scene here, Tyler Steen was the 65th overall pick in the 2023, draft. So high third round. And that was a year when there were some picks docked. So very close to a second round pick, right? You would imagine the Eagles had a second round grade on him or thereabouts

if they're taking him 65 overall. He was a left tackle at Alabama. So he was not considered a guard in college. Moves over. You were down there in Mobile at the Senior Bowl when he kind of gets that first look at guard. The Eagles bring him in and try him out at guard as a rookie. Like you said, doesn't really take. He started three games here over the past two seasons. He's somebody who, certainly from a size perspective, has what, you know, the Eagle, what Jeff Stoutland likes in a guard. You know, he's 6'6, 321, has those arm,

the arm length nearly 33 inches. So not like a really long arms for a tackle, but acceptable inside, certainly. And he's someone that has worked on his butt. since he's been here. He's learned the position. You mentioned Isaac Sama, that's such a good example

because he struggled finding a spot earlier on before he kind of settled in into it in his career. Now, the big difference between this year and last year is that Mackay Beckton's presence loomed

going into camp last year. For the audience, if you recall, Mackay Beckton signed after the draft as a swing tackle and the Eagles tried him out at guard. And when he played guard in camp, kind of I guess that I, in minicamp, I should say,

that idea went into the head of the coaching staff, of the front office. Tyler Steen gets banged up early in camp. Mackay Beckton goes in and never cedes that job. This year, I don't know if there's that Mackay Bechton waiting to take the job unless you think it's Kenyon Green. So from your perspective, If Tyler Steen doesn't win the job, is it Kenyon Green?

Is it Matt Pryor? Is there door number three that I'm not thinking about? What's your view on this competition? Yeah, my gut would tell me, and this is just me, my gut would tell me that it would be Kenyon Green would be the person that would start if Tyler Steen does not win that job. I think that Pryor, he is a known quantity in the building. The coaching staff, scouting staff, obviously very well aware of what he can be,

former Eagles draft pick was here for a handful of years. What I described with Steen, where you're a backup tackle, backup guard on both sides. He has proven that throughout his career. That was a great draft pick, a sixth round pick, a fifth or fifth or sixth round pick coming out of TCU a handful of years ago. He has had a really good career for that draft slot. And I think when you're looking at prior, to me, he makes the team if Steen is the starter, right? To me, like, because now he fills in, he's able to fill in that role.

you lose Fred Johnson, Jack Driscoll, some of these other names there that were those flex backups. That's something that will roll that Pryor can come in and play right now. I think when you're looking at Kenyon Green, he also is a player. I mean, he started, I believe, four of those five spots along the offensive line during his career at Texas A&M. Now, he's only been a left guard over the course of his NFL career, but this is a guy that can come in, and he's got that proven versatility going back to his days in college. Now, as we mentioned, you know, you pointed out that he's, He was working mostly. I mean, he was with the third team for the spring.

Right. I mean, he was working with the second and third team throughout the majority of OTAs in minicamp. And so I think when you're looking at Kenyon Green, really when you get into the summer, because there are there are reasons why I think that was probably the case. You know, this is a guy that's working with the group for the first time on the field. You want your timing and your rhythm to be good. You don't want guys to be off kilter there. So as he was getting adjusted, it makes sense that he was back there.

Now I'm interested. Once we get into the summer, once we get into like day two, day three of camp, Is he going to be with that second team? Or is he going to, if he's still relegated to the third team by the time we get into, you know, three weeks from now, I think it's pretty telling. And it's probably more than likely that he wouldn't be on the roster by the time we got to opening day. Wouldn't be on the roster. Okay. So that, yeah.

So that's, that's certainly something we need to watch here. I mean, the Eagles did backfill that, like you said, you know, having prior gives you someone with starting experience. But when they acquired Kenyon Green, my thinking was he's going to be. the starting guard, right? Because my logic was, as you outlined it at the top, Steen had a chance two years ago. They gave the job to Cam Jerkins. He had the chance last year. They gave the job to Mackay Beckton. I understand, as we discussed, that sometimes guys are slow developing and that it takes time. But I also think, too, that there's another, you know it or you don't component to it, right? Like, you're going to propose or you're not. And there's, as I look at this, as I look at this,

situation here. I thought Kenyon Green coming back in that CJ Garna-Johnson trade made sense. But your point about the left guard of it all is applicable. The fact that we didn't see him on the right side this year.

By the way, Bo, you're listening, you're watching right now. You were right. I was wrong. I own up to that. You know, the fact that we didn't see him on the right side speaks volumes. Now there's a difference between mini-camp and training camp. I get that. But how deep, you know, it's like, you know, when you get to that second week of training camp,

then you're starting to get into preseason mode. Then you're starting to get into open, you know, joint practice mode. If Kenyon Green is not getting work with the first team in those first eight, 10 practices, then he's not going to be a starting guard for this team, at least going into the year. So that's, that's really the reason that I started with right guard here is I think that's the most fascinating. thing to watch on the offensive line. Yeah, and I also want to just kind of follow up, too. I think when you're looking at, you know, Kenyon Green and my thoughts on Green at this stage

of the calendar compared to where I was on Beckton at this stage of the calendar a year ago, I'm actually a little bit more excited about what we've seen, the flashes we've seen from Kenyon Green here in the NFL versus what we saw from Beckton. I mean, obviously, look, we know Beckton turned into a Pro Bowl quality player here in Philadelphia last year on their Super Bowl run. But I think that what, you know, some of the things we saw from him of the Jets, the lows were lower, in my opinion, than some of the lows we saw from Kenyon Green last year in Houston. So I would say after going back and watching some of the film of Kenyon Green, like, I'm excited about what he could be here in this offense. I think it could be a really fun competition with he and Tyler Steen this summer.

But I also just let it play out. And like I mentioned, if he's, you meant if he's not working, you know, working with the ones by the time we get into week two, he's not in the start. If he's not working with the twos by the time we get to that point, that's why I think his roster. would probably be in jeopardy. So Kenyon Green, 6'4, 323 pounds, but 34-inch arms, 34-2-inch arms. So longer arms, then Steen. Different body type, of course, than Beckton last year. Right.

Then even, you know, even Tyler Steen this year, certainly different body type than Cam Juergens. You know, I always like to point out the contract situations. it's probably advantageous for the Eagles for Steen to win the job because Steen's under contract this year and next year Kenyon Green's entering the last year of his deal. You saw this with Mackay Beckton. If Kenyon Green starts and he plays well, he's getting paid somewhere else. The Eagles are not going to pay five offensive linemen, $10 plus million.

But also, if Kenyon Green is a $10 plus million player, it means this worked out really well for the Eagles. So I suppose you can see it from both sides, but only. 24 years old, right? So there's a lot of upside here. If there's anyone who you think can extract that value, it's Jeff Stoutland. The pre-draft interest was was clear with the Eagles. You know, it's not something that they've hid from. It's why they targeted him in the deal. So I'm fascinated to see you. You mentioned Matt Pryor. Is there anyone else here, like, you know, Trevor Kegan, is he someone who could get into the mix? I don't think Drew Kendall, you know, when we talk about centers later on.

Yeah. We'll talk about Drew Kendall. But really is, so is this, is this either green or prior, or is Keegan even someone worth talking about this high in the show? Yeah. My instinct tells me that Keegan would not be a factor here for the starting job. I would say he would be like the very, very dark horse candidate. Yeah.

So I would definitely put him forth in the pecking order there. And then the other thing that is important to point out is, And this is why these first two weeks are fascinating. Because if you don't go with Steen as your starting guard, what you need to do is you need to start preparing Steen to be your sixth offensive linemen, to be your swing tackle. Right. And that's an important job, especially when you have Lane Johnson, especially when you have Jordan Maillade. So, you know, both these guys have missed time in the past few years. I would imagine if Steen's not starting, he's the top backup at tackle.

So we talked about those first two weeks based on your experience of deserving practice, based on you knowing the way football training camp works, Jeff Stoutland. What's kind of the timeline here for when they're going to want to have that five established and when you need to know who that swing tackle is going to be going into week one against Dallas? Yeah, I think the other part of that equation that we know is going to be the case is we know how secretive Nick Siriani is, right? Yes. We know that as much as he will be pressed on that decision, he will not, hey, I've got no

reason to tell you guys that. We don't play a game until X, you know, X number of weeks from now. So we, I don't think we're going to get a real feel of it. But, I mean, it was, what, two and a half weeks in the camp last year, maybe like post-preseason game one before preseason game two, when we all kind of had the feeling, okay, Mackay Beckton is the starting right guard here, you know, in terms of just the, what we saw the snapshot being so my guess is they'd like to have that kind of carved out now we also have seen instances here with this organization where that that kind of that kind of training camp battle

at that position bleeds into the regular season we all remember the the guard rotation you know with a that we've seen in the past so I think that ideally you'd like to have that ironed out by the time you get into the the dog days of summer and the dog days of camp but I think at the end of the day if Kenyon Green and Todd are really really battling out and it's really looks like it's going to be like that two-man race there, they're going to let that play out and they're going to give both those guys enough rope to go and win the job. And then my last question here before we transition to the high-profile tackles is

what's going to decide who wins this job? Because look, the simple answer is the best man wins. But there's so many ways to determine who the best player is. Is it how they look in camp? Is it what the upside is? Is it the connection, you know, is it the comfort level that Lane Johnson and Cam Juergens has with that right guard? Like, you know, when Jeff Stoutland's looking at this, is it the high watermark that he's paying attention to? As I, as Bo jokes that I'd like to talk about, is it the typical performance or is it like, you know, the special performance?

Like, you know, what's going to be the determining factor for who wins right guard? you know, the way that I view the offensive line, and honestly, especially with this scenario, when you have Jordan Milata, Lane Johnson, Lannon Dickerson, Cam Jurgens, for Pro Bowl and all pro quality players, you don't want a guy that's high variance, right? Like, you don't want to the, you don't want the guy that, yeah, like the highs are high, but the lows are low and this guy is, you know, he's the guy that everyone is trying to attack on a weekly basis. You'd rather have a steady eddy as that fifth wheel there, you know, for that spot. So that's how that's my personal opinion. I do think that overall, when you're looking at offensive line and the way they look at it,

it's like, yeah, you want a guy that can be reliable. When you've got, you know, that person's responsible for protecting Jalen Hertz. That person's responsible for blocking for Sequin Barclay. I think that at the end of the day, they want someone that they can rely on in that spot and someone that they can count on to be that type of presence on a week-to-week basis. Make sure you stay tuned after this break to find out what we're looking. looking for from perhaps the best tackle combination in the NFL, Jordan Ayelata and Lane Johnson. It's time to talk about Bet365. And I've talked about Bet365 for months here. And it's because it's the place to go when you're watching a game and want to place a bet. Whatever the moment,

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No, I am not. I always like, I'm like right on the cusp of like, oh, you know what, I might take it enough flights this year. Obviously, I'm not flying as often as you are. So I have not felt the need to take the plunge there. I probably should have by this point, though. Well, good news for those who are not TSA pre-people because I literally just saw this headline pop up in my screen.

I got a news alert. Travelers no longer have to remove their shoes to get through the regular line at TSA security checkpoints at airports. So look, I am a devotee of or devotee. Is it devotee or devotee? I think it's devotee. Is it? I think it's Tay.

It's Tay. Okay. I'm devoted. I'm devoted to TSA Pre. I was an early adopter. Surprise, surprise. And I enjoy it. I was about to say I love it.

I'm not going to throw the L word that strongly. But I use it frequently, like you say. You know, I travel about 15 trips a year. And then, but really the advantages are the you don't have to take off your shoes you don't have to take your laptop out if you don't have to take off you if if you don't have to take off your shoes in the regular line i imagine that accelerates even more and you know people will will wonder is there as pronounced the difference between tsa pre and the tsa regular so curious to see this is this is something that we need

to check back to see if it's worth it what would what would the precheck need to do to level the playing fair to uh further enhance than to keep you on board what what could they do to seduce you into making sure to making sure that you get a loyal customer uh honestly to me it's the efficiency of it right is is that so you you keep that line moving um you can get through in under five minutes i'm good you know and you know you don't have to take out the laptop so that's that's a big benefit i'm trying to think what would be i i guess the next advantage would be like uh you know the facial recognition to the point that you don't even have to stop to show you, you know, because have you ever gone to one of these Amazon grocery stores?

Have you seen these? No, I have not. They put one in in our neighborhood and I have not been yet. I've heard. I mean, it is amazing. You walk in, okay? You take your thing off the shelf and you leave. And then it just charges your, it just charges your card.

It is, it is fascinating to me. The technology involved. But the reality, is this, the weight at the security line, like for them to actually see your ID, that really doesn't take that much time. So if it's not cutting the time, I certainly don't want anyone to lose their job. So I'm good with the TSA official being there. So we don't need to, but you're asking what would like enhance the TSA pre-experience?

Honestly, it's good as it is. It's not something that needs to be messed with. Let's just keep it moving, keep it fast. And I'm good with that. So I would be remiss if I did not say that the picture taking is optional for people. You can say no. You can opt out of doing the picture take because I can see how that would be alarming to a lot of people. I would say that gives me the heibi jibis a little bit as well.

So, yeah, I know that there are a lot of people out there that don't love that. I will say, though, I am a little shock that this was the headline that you chose to go with coming out. As opposed to Waymo. As opposed to Waymo. The fact that you did not lead the show, that this wasn't in the headline, that wasn't in the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I mean, shocked that that that was not the way you went. Well, I, I, I was, I was going to say that for the second break, but okay. Happy to address it now. Amazing move here in Philadelphia. Hope everyone gets a, I, I, I didn't want to lead with it or put, you know, look, Waymo, you're more than welcome to advertise here with PHOI. We have with a devoted, audience, but Waymo is terrific.

I, you know, it's efficient. It was, it was relatively affordable when I used it in Arizona. You know, look, there's a process here where they need to get more comfortable with the roads in Philly. But yeah, but you look, it's, it's, if you look at at these statistics that suggests, you know, their safety numbers, if you look at the efficiency with, which they get from point A to point B. I am quite intrigued. And I think, look, I would tell the people in the chat who are skeptical of this, embrace technology. Don't run from it.

Embrace technology, right? So, you know, find out how technology, you know, look, if we did this show 15 years ago, there wouldn't even have been such a thing. Like there weren't podcasts on YouTube, you know, 20 years ago, number one. So a technological improvement there. Second, the idea that you can just pick up your phone, show where you are, and a car pulls up in front of you, that's incredible technology. So like, let's, I'm not going to back away from this. I acknowledge there are some technological improvements that have, you know, there's residual effects that are negative.

I am happy with what I experienced with Waymo so far. There's for the, for not risk going completely down this path. Did you see the video that was going viral yesterday? The robot that was like just getting like beat to hell by the guy and was like, oh, look how determined this robot is and how all the damage it can take and still go. I just felt for this guy just knowing what's coming down the pipe in three or four years when T2 judgment day happens. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that there's going to be.

some inpatient Philadelphia drivers who stick up the middle finger at the driverless car. We'll see. It'll give us something fun to talk about. But you know what else is fun to talk about? The starting offensive tackles. And it's funny. We've been talking about how things constantly change. This is my 13th consecutive year talking about Lane Johnson as the starting right tackle.

You know Lane Johnson is the right tackle. If I'm fortunate enough to be on this beat for. let's see. So this is Jordan Maillada's seventh year. So am I having that wrong? Yeah. So if I'm fortunate, if I'm fortunate enough to be on this beat

for another six, seven years, I'll be talking about Jordan Milata when he gets to that point. The Eagles are set at offensive tackle. Is there anything, like when you're watching this in one-on-ones, when you're watching this in practice,

is it just admiration for how good this player is? Is there anything you you want to see or is it let's just get to september 4th with both these guys it's definitely is more the latter but you you always want to like kind of like sit back and kind of appreciate that it's fun i was listening to chris long and his podcast i want to say uh it was the fourth of july was one of his episodes last week and he was talking about you know going up in training camp against a player like lane he was like it's useless for me because he just beats me on every rep and i can't work on

anything. And when you, we talked about that, I know like with Hassan Reddick, his first, his first summer here in Philadelphia, where, you know, Reddick didn't look great. And it was like, yeah, but you kind of forget, he's going up against Lane Johnson every day. Right. And so, and then he goes off and has that hugely productive 2020 season. So I think you want to make sure you don't take Lane Johnson for granted. But obviously, look, you want you also make sure you get him to September, get him to week one as best you can as well. Yeah. Now, we should also add this was kind of the, rationalization for Bryce Huff last spring or last summer rather it's like he's going up against lane Johnson right but yeah lane lane jones can make pro bowls look like they're mortals uh in jordan my

lotta's case he's still on that that development curve right he's still like i i don't think we've seen the best of jordan my lotta yet is that is that fair to say i think that's fair you know i think that when you look at him and especially in the past game that there are still areas that he can continue to improve. He's just improved by leaps and bounds over the course of his career. But also, this is another good example. Now, he's a unicorn from a story standpoint, from not just a physical talent standpoint, but just, you know, where he came from, how far he's come along. But in year two, like year two training camp, I remember listening to to you guys. And it was like a conversation, like, yeah, I don't, I think I, I think Jordan Mila probably should make the 53. Really? And again,

like, just kind of going back to the Tyler Steen side of it, like, just because the first two years didn't go well. You know, Hey, no one Smith is playing, you know, late into the preseason and preseason game three.

Like, oh, he's a bus, move on. Like, you got to give these time. Some of these guys need a lot of time to develop. And I think when you're looking at, at Jordan Milata,

he's a great example of that. And as you mentioned, I do think that his best football may still be ahead of him. And so I could fill Buster here and talk about Milata and Lane Johnson. But like, the reality is when we do these training camp observations, Jordan Montalada is really good. Lane Johnson's really good.

It doesn't take an astute observer of practice like you and Bo to tell me that. But where I imagine where you and Bo and me will be watching during these practices is what's going on behind them. Because there's the kind of the steady veteran backup in Kendall Lamb, who we can discuss. But I think where most the intrigue will be will be these day three drafts. will be, you know, how does Miles Hinton look? How does Cameron Williams look? You know, when I was doing that show last week with Rich when I was assessing my 25-step guide to Howie Roseman's off-season, and I said take an offensive tackle on day two. And one of the names I put there was Cameron Williams. So the fact that they were able to get Cameron

Williams when they did, says something. Miles Hinton is, you know, just from asking around as someone that I think they're higher on than consensus, which is typically the case when you take somebody, but that's a player that I think that had, that I think they believe has upside. So what will you be watching from both Williams and Hinton this summer? Yeah, I mean, I think with both players, I'm really not anticipating them to have a huge impact on 2025, honestly. I think that it would be, you know, that's a cherry on top if either of them is able to be counted on to be the third tackle in year one because you are talking about two late round

draft picks right guys with ability guys with tools but refinement needed you know yesterday afternoon i was watching uh clemson defensive lineman peter woods who was a select more last year rising junior uh he's going to be a top 10 pick whenever he comes out there's an outstanding player um he gave it to cameron williams in that playoff game back in january now he's a he's going to be an elite player but uh i think when you're looking at and he was still a sophomore right and so i think when you're looking at Cameron Williams, like he still has a ways to go. And I think when you're looking at, you know, what the anticipation or what the, what the expectations rather should be for him, I think coming in, looking competent,

good flashes, hopefully you have some days where it's like, oh, that was a really good day. He's going to have some bad reps. There are going to be some reps against, you know, Jalick's Hunt. And there are going to be some reps against Josh Uche and Aziz Ojalari and guys that have been around the league for a while, you know, they're going to come in. And they're going to make, you know, Patrick Johnson is going to give. Cameron Williams fits, right? Just because Patrick Johnson's been in the league for four years, five years. So I think when you're looking at those guys hinting in Williams, it's can you show

flashes? Do you look like you belong? How do you rebound when the adversity strikes in practice? You know, can you rebound from a bad day at the office and come back the next day and look good? Those are the things I'll be looking at when it comes to those two young players. And yeah, I agree with you. These aren't players that you're looking at as part of the rotation this year. But look, when Bo is crowning himself King of the Beats, a big part of this is going to be like, how do you figure out those backup offensive line spots? And when you're talking about players in the sixth round, they're not guaranteed spots on the 53. No. Right?

And so it's always exciting to talk about it around draft time and post-draft. And, you know, we get France outstanding scouting reports. But these are players who could well be on practice squad. These are players who well could be on someone else's is a roster. So the Eagles will really try to see what they have in both these guys. And I wouldn't be surprised, too, if Cameron Williams gets some time inside a guard. So that's something that I'm certainly watching. To me, like, I would give Darien Kinnard better odds to be like active slash on the 53 than

Williams and Hinton at this point, right? Like, I don't know, just based, because I haven't seen any of these guys live. You did get a chance to see them in the spring. I'm excited to see what they look like this summer and maybe they're able to swing it the other way. This is why this is a good show. You literally took the words out of my mouth because the next guy I wanted to discuss here was Darien Kinnard.

And the transition was someone who's played guard and tackle in the past, but who the Eagles really identified as the tackle last year, who earned a spot on the 53-man roster based on the way he played in training camp in the preseason. Like, you know, this is not to kind of get on a pedestal here, but you say, what's the value of like the practice reports? What's the value of watching those preseason games? Well, this tackle show last year, we probably weren't talking about Darren Kinnard being on the 53. Darren Kinnard played his way onto the 53 last summer.

I recall Elaine Johnson talking about the way Kinnard really stood out. He was active for only two games. He played three snaps against the Bengals. He started against the Giants Week 18. he's also somebody who has literally won a Super Bowl every year he's been in the NFL. So, you know, he has that winner's trait. But Kinnard's the player who like, all right, last year was the year when he made the team. This is the year when he's trying to be active on game day.

I think that's probably the hope. Obviously, he wants to make the roster. But like what's realistically the next step for Kinnard is. it's being one of those eight offensive linemen active on game day. Yeah, I think that that's certainly a goal that he can achieve here this year. Because I think we're, to me, he is more in competition with Matt Pryor for snaps and role than he is with the two rookies. That's that's kind of how I'm viewing Kinnard coming into this summer.

So to me, I would expect it to play out that way is that if we're looking, talking about pecking order, it's like you have the starters, then you have Lamb and Pryor and Kinnard. And then it's the two rookies. And it's like, all right, who shakes out? maybe two of the vets make it and then one of the rookies make it. And maybe you include Holland Pearson there as well with the rookie draft picks. And you say, all right, how many of these guys are able to make the 53? You know, you'd love the young guys to be able to come in and shine.

But odds are that you're not going to get that from both of those players. They might not get it from either. Yeah. And then you mentioned Kendall Lamb. Kendall Lamb, to me, was one of the more curious signings this offseason. He was an outlier in age. He's an outlier in size on the Eagles offensive line. He's not what you typically think of for the Eagles at offensive tackle, but he's somebody who, like, they clearly identify, they want to bring in.

And there's significant starting experience here, right? So Kendall Lamb, 32 years old, okay. He's played in the league for 10 years. He has 44 starts. he's played I believe 973 snaps at left tackle 1,611

and 11 snaps at right tackle so he is your prototypical swing tackle if it's not steen

or if somebody else kind of doesn't fill that role I imagine that's precisely what they were looking for is that what the expectation is for

Kendall Lamb is that if there's not a young player you're comfortable with as that swing tackle you have someone who you know can do it Yeah, it just goes back to like the optionality.

You know, we talked about that yesterday at quarterback when they make the trade, when they trade Kenny Pickett away to Cleveland. All right, you get DTR back. Well, you do that because you're comfortable with the potential that, hey, he could be our QB3 going into the season. You don't know that you're going to get Kyle McCord in the draft. Well, McCord, he becomes available at your slot in round six. All right, let's take, let's bring him in and we'll let this, let this battle play out. It's the same thing here along the offensive line where they've got a bunch of potential outs for who could be. they're sixth, they're seventh, they're eighth, their ninth guy in the rotation and backing up at several different spots.

You've got a good mix of young, reliable or young rookies with upside and then seasoned reliable vets, like guys, you feel like can come in and you're just kind of taking the best of either mix. And that's how you're going to construct your group here as you come out of August. And then just to remind the audience, because look, if you haven't followed every single transaction for the Eagles this offseason, or if perhaps, you know, you kind of forget what that depth chart looked like last year. Fred Johnson was the swing tackle a year ago. Fred Johnson. And so when I think of like what the Eagles typically have in that spot, I think of someone like Fred Johnson, someone in his mid-20s who's, you know, has the size is a project type player who develops.

And then he goes on to find a better deal elsewhere, right? So that's, that's, you know, similar. I don't want to say kind of like what Kinnard is, but that's kind of like the profile that I typically think of for your swing guy or someone who's kind of ascending into that starter role for you, like what Tyler Steen would be. So it's a different type of profile going with Kendall Lamb. And the fact that they signed him, you mentioned optionality. They consider that really important.

And I said it earlier in the show, Lane Johnson's mistime, Jordan Milata's mistime, something I've said repeatedly on this show during the past two years and then on our previous show, the previous four years, is that if you just look at the Howie-Rosman era, the two years that have gone to crap, to use that term, is when the offensive line got decimated with injuries. And I know from conversations with Howie, I know from conversations with people in that building,

that one thing that they are almost maniacal about is making sure they have depth on the, offensive line because what you don't want is like if if you're down to a backup tackle, it can sink your season if you don't feel he's a starting caliber player. So pay close attention to who that swing tackle is going to be. Make sure you listen in, not just to find out what headline we might discuss next, but more because Landon Dickerson, Cam Juergens, two pro bowlers. We'll talk about them and we'll talk about who is.

competing to get time behind them. So here on this July 8th show, let me talk about Monarch Money, because finances, they can be messy and confusing. We all need, well, you know, a good company like All City has a good CFO, but we all need a personal CFO, right? And that's what Monarch Money is. It gives you full visibility and control so you can stop earning and start growing. It's more than your average budgeting at.

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Restrictions apply. Visit Empire Today slash PHLY for full details. Have you thought any more about the clam shatter? I'm going to be honest. Once. I did think about it one extra time last night. Yeah, it's, am I going to say that I'm going to do it?

Probably not. But it's, I don't, I will say that my Google searches yesterday kind of prove that you are not alone in doing this. And obviously you're not alone because you've got it from somebody else, you know, in the restaurant. So no, more power to you.

Good. I always like when the conclusion is, is that I'm not as crazy as it might seem on the show from time to time. You, you've done yourself no favors here multiple times this episode. Yeah. Yeah. But so you know what? Sometimes you, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out a good transition. I don't have a good transition here.

What I can tell you is that at Garden, at Center, the Eagles are in a good spot. Landon Dickerson left guard, Cam Juergens starting center. Is this a similar situation to what we talk about with the tackles where there's nothing you really need to see from either of these guys in camp? Or like, look, year two for Cam Juergens starting at center. Is there more you want to see from him? Is the recovery from the back injury something that you're kind of closely monitoring? What's the training camp gist for both those players? Honestly, with both guys coming off their injuries from the end of 2024, you want to see both guys healthy.

We know that Landon was dealing with stuff. We know the KAM was dealing with the back, like you mentioned. So being able to see both guys healthy will be big, no reason to think. Otherwise, as we sit here on July 8th. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, we know what to expect from both those players. And that's why, you know, going into the, going into camp, all eyes are going to be on right guard for this reason, because you feel so good about the other four spots. And you're almost, you don't even have to think about it.

So I think when you're looking at Landon, you're looking at Cam, it's more about who's backing up at those spots, you know, if worst case scenario happens and you've got to plug one of them in if they're on the sideline. Yeah, I would agree with you there. I think the big story for those players is just the recovery from injury, right? I mean, Cam Juergens, we didn't see him this summer. We saw Land, I'm sorry, we didn't see him this spring. We saw Lyndon Dickerson out there this spring. But you really want to kind of get a sense of where Cam Jurgens is because, look, look, Look, I mean, he was pretty candid about the significance of that injury and like how that affected him.

Of course, as he said, pain is temporary and you're, you know, a champion forever here. But it is, it is something that, you know, he's crouched down the snap every, every play, right? So you want to make sure that the back is in a good spot. And I think that's why the Eagles were careful for it. But these are both players too where, like similar to Milata, they haven't reached, they haven't reached their peak yet. You know, it's fair to say, and the Eagles paid Cam Juergens to be one of the best centers in the NFL. It's fair to say there's another step in Cam Juergens' game. Like last year this time, as Cam will remind you, the big question was, can he take over for Jason Kelsey?

That question doesn't exist anymore, right? I mean, the question now is, can this guy be the best center in the NFL? Because, you know, Creed Humphrey is obviously up there. Tyler Lindembaum's up there. But Cam Jurgens is in that conversation. and that's only going to continue. And then in Lyndon Dickerson's case, you know, you want him to just stay healthy out there. But the consistency with which he plays, like the size, the flexibility, he's a rare left guard for the Eagles.

Yeah, and it's a great place to be. And we've talked about it numerous times throughout the offseason, the state of this Eagles roster and how basically 31 other franchises would love to have what Nick Siriani has his disposal and what this coaching staff has at this disposal. I would say the same thing about this offensive line. You know, basically every team, and you always feel it when you're going into free agency, when you're going into the draft,

and you're looking at team needs, every team would love to be able to add offensive linemen. And the Eagles do such a good job of always kind of filling up that pipeline, you know, and adding young talent. So, you know, because, again, looking at those three rookies that they brought in on day three, all three of them are not going to hit. And I include throwing the fourth there with Holland Pierce as well.

Yes. all going to hit, but one of them hits. And now it's like, okay, now you've got another guy that we're talking about as an established backup and, you know, potential starting quality player a year from now. All right. And so they do such a good job of always adding to the trenches. And it allows them to be in this position year after year. So we'll kind of close it out when we talk about the backup guards for Dickerson. But I think more interesting this summer is who the backup center is going to be. When I was out there in the spring, the player who was filling in for Cam Juergens was Brett Tooth. And Brett Tooth, to put in perspective, came to the Eagles in 2019, right? So there's almost a career

achievement to, you know, him being that next guy up this, this time of year. Brett Tooth has stuck around. He's someone who's really respected in that building. He's like an extra coach for them. but Brett Tooth is not a natural center and I think he would admit as much. Drew Kendall, a player that the Eagles targeted in the draft, player that the Eagles liked. Drew Kendall seems to be in a good position

to be the backup center if he looks good this summer. What do you want to see from Drew Kendall out there? I would say the most important thing for him because we know that they drafted a center late in day three a year ago that some people in the media, Media Corps really, really liked and we're really big fans of.

And because he did not have that proven versatility to be able to play other spots along the offensive line, they viewed him as someone that they could, you know, exposed to the waiver wire and they ended up losing him. And I think when you're looking at Drew Kendall, that same question is going to present itself. That does not mean that if you only play center, that they're going to waive him for final cuts or, you know, right afterwards and then they're going to lose them. But it does mean that you would love to be able to have a guy that has that proven versatility. does have that ability to, I mean,

this is a guy who was a college tackle and has played some guard over the course of pre-season in years past. So I think when you're looking at Brett Tooth, you know that he's a guy that can come in and fill a couple different spots. I think Kendall would have to be like head and shoulders. Really? To me, he would have to be because,

look, it's the same thing as the McCord thing from yesterday. I don't think, just, I don't think Drew Kendall's like a lock to make it. You know, I think that there was a chance that if Kendall or if Brett Tooth is, you know, on equal playing field by the time we get to the end of August, you know,

and can fill in a number of different spots, they have done that in the past. We'll make that argument that he could be on the 53 over Kendall. Yeah, so look, I never like when there's manufactured debate on shows. Like, I like it to be real and authentic, and this can be real and authentic. I disagree with you. I think Drew Kendall's here to be the backup center. I think it'll be a disappointment if Brett Toak is Eagle's backup center this year. Brett Tooth has had ample time to win that job as backup center.

Hasn't been the case. I think, honestly, if they don't have confidence in Kendall, then you're probably looking at Len Dickerson sliding over. They're not carrying a second center on the roster this year. Yeah, right. Yeah. But I, look, and I don't want to just identify a player by their round. But Drew Kendall is a fifth round pick.

I know the Eagles cut Clayton Thorson. at one point they cut Nate Gary. It's atypical for the Eagles to cut a fifth round pick. I look at that a little different than I look at the tackles. Maybe I'm wrong there. Maybe I'm putting too much stock into where they were drafted. But it would surprise me if Drew Kendall is not on the 53-man roster this year. Am I overstating this?

I don't think that it's necessarily unfair to say, oh, yeah, it would be a shock. Like, I would expect him to be on the 53, but I don't think that. I just don't think it's a lock. You know, I don't think that he's like cemented in. Oh, yeah, center to, you know, signed, seal, delivered. I do think that he's going to have to compete for a spot. Interesting. And so there's one other player that I want to mention here.

And he's someone that we just discussed briefly on the show earlier today and who will talk about in the guard competition. And that's Trevor Kagan. Because as both spotted first, Trevor Kagan was taking snaps this summer and or this spring, rather. And that should not be dismissed. Trevor Keegan was a fifth round pick last year. The Eagles kept him around. They could have kept Dylan McMahon, who had more of a potential role on the team last year.

They clearly thought Trevor Keegan's upside was higher than Dylan McMahon's upside, which was why they kept Trevor Keegan around the entire season, even though there wasn't necessarily a need for him last year. Trevor Keegan, who has experience at guard, and we'll talk about him at guard, but if you think he can play center, it just changes the possibility, changes the game day permutations.

Should we be talking about Trevor Keegan in the center mix, or is this one of these things like we were there on a day in June when he was snapping, this isn't something that really factors into September, October, November. I think that it's something

that bears watching as we get into the summer. And if we start to see that, hey, you know what, in team drills, they're starting to work him in there, uh and certainly obviously preseason if he's starting to work in there then that's important and then i think that he becomes again someone that would compete with kendall like i think that that would be the case is if he if if uh if uh Trevor kegan is going to be proven that he can play

guard center and then you look at kendall and he doesn't have that same flexibility that would be the death now for his roster spot you know and i think that that's what it could those kind of decisions that's what happened uh like you said with McMahon last year yeah so then let's round out the guard spot here because, you know, we kind of went around the line, not in the natural order, but we've really spoken about everybody who is a possibility here because if you're competing for the right guard, you're probably competing for left guard as well. So Kenyon Green factors in there. I mean, Matt Pryor in theory, although he's probably more on the right side.

Trevor Keegan was in the mix there. Brett Tooth, we know can play guard. he can play off all five spots. But the one player that you mentioned and you lumped him in with the other tackles, that's Holland Pierce. So is Holland Pierce someone who's just an interesting project? Are you surprised they're starting him off at guard at 6'88? And do you literally, I shouldn't say literally,

do you view him in that same tier as Cameron Williams and Miles Hinton? I do. Yeah, to me, like when I watched Holland Pierce, this was a guy. And when I saw him up close at the Shrine Bowl in January, like I thought that this was a guy that was draftable. You know, and so for them to get him undrafted, I think that that's fine in terms of like, yeah, this is a guy that can come in and compete for a spot. My guess is it's probably more likely that he's practice squad than on the 53, but I wouldn't rule out his chances. You know, and I think that it does not surprise me either that he has moved inside. We've seen them do it with Matt Pryor.

We've seen them do it with Mackay Beckton. So, you know, that that part does not surprise me. But yeah, I would give Pierce a fair shake here in that competition when you're looking at those tackles, the rookie tackles alongside them. Last thing I want to talk about here is the coaching. If you can give me five seconds, I want to show you and Julia and the audience something, a prop, if you will. Okay. So right here in this box is an award that I need to present to Jeff Stoutland, during training camp.

And it's an award that Jeff Stoughton, look, I don't need to tell the audience. You saw the episode. You saw the best guest we've had in the history of the Ph.L. Yagle show, Allison Stoutland. You know Jeff Stadling is the winner. Yeah, the winner of the Dr. Z Award

and that Allison warned me about presenting this to him this summer. But the award aside, the reason, or I guess the reason he won this award is he's that good of a coach. you have been at just about every single practice of the Jeff Stoutland era, maybe outside the COVID year, right? Or no, no, the COVID year we were at training. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, anything that media as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what I meant. Tell all the audience what it's like watching a Jeff Stoutland practice. I mean, he's, he's awesome from a, like, from the energy that he brings every single day.

And obviously, like we know, like always teaching, you know, very hands-on with all the guys. And it's the same stuff every day. And I've done a number of pieces with Coach Dalland over the course of his career here in Philadelphia. And there were multiple times we talked about that exact sentiment of why he wants to do the same exact drills every single day. And he wants to hammer home the details and make sure that everything is exactly what the way it should look. because it's the, you know, it's the classic like elephants on parade, like poetry and motion, like everything should look in lockstep. And so that is something that he is always hammering home. And it's really one of the core principles when it comes to his teaching methods is really kind of being a master of the details in that way.

So being there at practice, you definitely get that sense. He gets on guys, but he goes right up after and he's helping them out and showing them. Like, you know, this is the way I wanted to look. So, yeah, if you get the opportunity to do it, you know, you go to the open practice at the link or whatever it is. It's always a lot of fun. Make sure you go down to that North End zone and take in the offensive line, taking the offensive line drills. And then one thing I don't think you and I have to have discussed yet this summer is he's a new assistant. And it's an old assistant.

Greg Austin is, and he's someone who, you've seen him on the practice field before. He'll be, you know, he returned. He's been in college for quite a few years. Any Greg Austin Nuggets, we should know, going in the training camp? Yeah, I mean, he's been bouncing around college, as you mentioned. You know, this is the guy that came in during the Chip Kelly Aris, got here, you know, around the same time, you know, as Jeff Stoughtley had the same year as Jeff Stalton did.

He was with the Eagles from 13 to 2015. And then was at UCF, Nebraska, FIU, jumped on with the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2023 and was there for the last two seasons. and now if I can interrupt real quick you're going to have to hear the rest of the of the Greg Austin and some other stuff we were going to discuss in overtime. Well done. Yeah. Excellent gusto.

Yeah, I think when you're looking at Greg Austin, again, the familiarity is there. This is a guy that's been around the NFL, been around college. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he'll hit the ground running, having, you know, knowing exactly what to expect from Jeff Stalwin. Look at that. You're not getting better offensive line. preview anywhere than you are at P.HL.

Yagle show having Fran Duffy, it's awesome. So look, we're going to round this up in overtime with, I got one other thing I want to discuss here. I'm trying to be transparent with the audience, is that tomorrow my son's going to the Sequin Barclay football camp, right? And so, you know, I'm taking him. And I don't know how to. like not be a reporter, right?

You know, but I'm, I'm not there on a reporting assignment. So it's like, you know, if I'm, you know, you know, typically the media, you go to a certain area to watch it. I mean, I'm just, I'm just there as a father at this camp here. Is this going to be a challenge for me? Is it going to be like, am I going to, you know, like, you know, am I going to just be like, am I going to try to. Is the Pope of Catholic? Yeah, yeah. It's going to be a challenge for you.

And I'm going to try to jump the fence. Is that going to take his work hat off for three hours? Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm there for my son, right? But like I can't, you know, I mean, you know, I'm just going to be there in the parent section here. I'm not there to see Sequin, to talk to Sequan.

But like, you know, I, a few years ago. So we're partners with big brothers, big sisters here at PHI. And I've talked about this in the past. I've been a big. brother and it's something I'm very proud of. And I took my little brother to the LaShawn McCoy football camp one year. And like I was there in the big brother capacity. And like LaShawn just just viewed me as like, you know, he's like the beat reporter. So he's like, he's like, you need me? And I'm like, no, you know, I'm, I appreciate that. But I'm, I'm, I'm here just, you know, just taking

quasi, or just taking, I don't want his name, names. Just taking my little brother. And so, So, yeah, so tomorrow, what's the best way for me to navigate this? Do I just, like, stand in a far corner? Do I mean, do I try to get that FaceTime with Sequin? Because they actually wrote in the email that, like, you know, unless you have the VIP package, which we don't have the VIP package, like parents do not get on the field, which I'm totally cool with. I'm in the stands watching it.

But I also don't want to abdict my professional responsibilities. but I'm there tomorrow taking my son, not necessarily to try to get a few minutes for Sequin. Yeah, my guess is that Sequin Barclay would be more impressed with you being in dad mode than you being in reporter mode tomorrow. That would be my guess. And there would probably be even more respect on his end where he sees you and you're not there for him.

You're there for real. That would be my take. Well said. Yeah. No, I'm excited. I know Reed's excited for it. So, yeah, so tomorrow, I will report back on tomorrow's show how that goes, how the Sequant-Barkley Camp goes and what my son learned from that. And how about this?

In connection to that, let's make tomorrow a running back episode. Oh, let's do that. I love it. Yeah. And, you know, Fran and I will text off off there. Maybe we'll combine running backs and wide receivers if we were or like running backs and tight ends. maybe. Tight ends, right? Yeah. Yeah, running backs in tight end. So tune in two o'clock tomorrow to find out the running back picture and the tight end picture in training camp this year. Find out how the

Seguan Barkley camp went and find out whatever else is on. Friend Duffy's mind, the best draft analyst and Eagles analyst in the business for Fran Duffy, Julia Hoff, who does an outstanding job every single day on this show. I'm Zach Berman. If Bo we're here, he'd say, as always, we love you. I would say we'll do better tomorrow. Thanks for watching.