PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles-Cowboys Offensive BLUEPRINT for Thanksgiving Matchup | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

The Eagles are headed to Dallas on Thanksgiving for an NFC East clash against the Cowboys, but how will their offense operate in what could easily turn into a holiday shootout? EJ Smith and special guest Shawn Syed discuss the latest NFL schedule release news, the biggest questions facing the Eagles going into training camp, and much more! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome in everybody to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. We are live from the Infinity Mobile Studio, and we are presented by the good people at Ashley. I am your host today. E.J. Smith, Bo Wolf is out today. And I am joined by quite possibly my favorite, maybe let's say top three tacticos online. One, Sean Syed of Sumer Sports. I like to think of us as like podcast cousins. You know, we both. have a shield uncle as like a part of our podcast development school here so yeah i'm very excited to be joined by you sean i'm excited to get into some deep dives on the eagles but first and foremost how you doing and have you seen any good movies recently look i'm doing great uh as you mentioned yeah both uh off branches off the kapadia coaching tree i think this is the first part we've ever done just us together and of course i've seen a very good movie recently called actually called blue heron it should still be

out uh it was phenomenal it was really really special If you watch it, please someone send me a DM so I can talk to you about it. Love that. Okay. I'm sure there will be more movie talk throughout the show. I sure hope so. But, you know, Sean and I, just to pull the listeners behind the curtain here, we've been texting back and forth about this show. You know, we've been very excited about trying to dive into some Eagles topics. Sean and I, it felt like Sheel always kind of kept us away from each other on the podcasting front, probably because he knows that we have a tendency to go long. We have the gift of gab, as she'll would say.

So we have I've drilled this down into very specific questions that we are going to try to answer. And I'm going to really lean on you, Sean, and the film study that you've done and the expertise that you've really developed on both sides of the Eagles, mostly through a love of Vic Fangio, I would say. And by a love-hate relationship of watching the Eagles offense in 2025. So obviously, a lot of our listeners will know the Eagles, their schedule release week. But we found out last night through an announcement from the NFL and the Eagles. Eagles will be in Dallas on Thanksgiving. They'll be playing the Cowboys Thanksgiving at 430. It's a big game.

And the first question that I really had as I was driving home thinking about that game is, can the Eagles offense, you know, win a shootout against the Cowboys? And that's not to say it's going to be a shootout, but can the Eagles offense win that type of game in 26? Can Sean Mannion get them into a position where they can, you know, keep pace with an offense as good as the Cowboys offense was last year. So, you know, I kind of sent Sean on a little, little quest here to answer some questions. I kind of answer, you know, whether or not the Eagles offense has a trajectory with that with

Sean Mannion as the offensive coordinator. So I guess first and foremost, Sean, like what do you think it looks like, you know, an ideal version of the Eagles offense? What are the personnel groupings that you're envisioning? What do you think the broad strokes are there? Yeah, I mean, there is a lot here. And I like that you kind of couch it in that Thanksgiving. game. We look back to last year, that Black Friday game against the Bears. I think that's like

week 13 where that was like a real rough outcome, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. Of course, we all remember defensive line getting pushed around a bunch there. But I think if you look at the Eagles and if we're saying, hey, this is a team that is going to be in high scoring games. One, as you mentioned, Vic Uncle will be quite upset because of the points allowed on that side of the ball. But I think you can see the structures in place to make this team a well-rounded offense that can attack at all three levels of the field vertically, not just really prioritizing those iso deep balls. I think they should be able to selectively stress the middle of the field. We'll talk about middle of the field throwing, I think, a bunch today. But really, to me, it is about getting

your biggest offensive threats into positive matchups, using things like formation, diversity, and motion to really take advantage of what a defensive or what a defense presents. Because I think over the last two years, and I think it's not controversial to say this, a lot of times they leaned on, what is our individual matchup just on the outside that okay a j is going to beat you devonte is going to beat you we're going to do that over and over again i don't think now where we are just in the long arc of football history you're going to lean on that so much just over and over i think you have to have to have to find different ways to kind of scheme your guys open we can talk about the different ways to get there but i'm kind of bullish like i i feel kind

of good you know i i'm trying not to buy too much into the hey you see this this all season quote and it gets you hyped, but I mean, sue me for getting excited about things during the season. So what are the quotes that have gotten you hype? You know, what is the origin of you feeling this good? Most of our viewers will know you are a, you are kind of always optimistic. I think you choose positivity most of the time.

But what specifically is it that's got you feeling bullish about the Eagles offense? I mean, look, this is, it's unfair to be bullish about the quote. I think it was just something small about like, oh, like, Jaylon is more open to things going on like around the office. I forgot exactly what. So I do apologize about that. But even if you don't just read into and say, okay, well, Jalen is going to be this like transformed player this year, I think, and I mean, I think you know Jalen Hurts probably better than really most people on this entire earth just based on how much time you spend around him.

And I assume that he's a kind of person and player that wants to know about, well, why are we doing this? Like, why is absolutely done? And so if we take that, I think that Sean Manny is probably pretty good at that. I think based on what you hear about how we perform to interviews, how he transitioned from being a quarterback into a coach. I assume that he has that, like a really strong foundation in that. So I have to assume that communication is probably good going back and forth. And then that leads to Jalen Hertz buying into things where we see things in spurts during the season.

I think going back to looking at things last year, if you're just kind of transforming and saying like, hey, we saw this good thing on film, let's include in our offense. You're not always going to be able to explain every single, like, deep level of it. But if manually gets kind of his say and gets to put things, in as he would want to, I think you get to start from the foundation. You say, hey, this is why we're doing this. This is how it fits into a larger picture.

You get the buy-in from the quarterback, and now you're stepping forward in the right direction. Yeah, that's a really good point that I hadn't. I mean, I've said on the show a few times, like Jalen is big on. I've heard this from people who have worked really closely with Jalen throughout the years about how he's big on the why. He's big on understanding what the origin of the concept is and, you know, really needs sometimes to be convinced of concepts. And yeah, I think it was a Jeremy Fowler report from ESPN earlier this week that Jalen has been receptive to these changes and open to these things.

And that probably is reflective of how Sean Mannion has been able to install things now that they are going through the offseason program. So, okay, all right. You made me like maybe three and a half percent more optimistic about the Eagles offense. I mean, generally speaking, I still have questions about like in comparison to this Dallas offense, what the Eagles will look like offensive. They have the talent to stack up, but it's funny, I went through the numbers of the Cowboys' Offense

and the Eagles offense last year. So the Cowboys ranked second and total yards, seventh in points, fifth in success rate, and fifth in EPA per drive. The Eagles, by comparison, 24th in total yards, 19th in total points, 25th in success rate.

That was the big one that really jumped out to us. And then 19th in EPA per drive. So, you know, I understand that a lot of that did kind of snowball toward the end of the season, but it really does show you the gulf that there, that there really was between those two groups. Now, I know that you might point to the, you know, the Eagles defense is better than the Cowboys defense was last year. I know that you might argue that it might not be a shootout because of the way that the Eagles defense can play. But I just, it's one of the big questions I have about this upcoming season. You know, there are some really good offenses in the conference, you know,

whether or not the Eagles will be able to keep up in those types of games. You know, and this was a comment we had last week. And I said, I'm going to save this for when Sean's on. You know, we talk a lot about Mackay Lemon and how they'll use him. We talk a lot about Eli Stowers, how they'll use him, how Devante Smith is going to be, you know, a really important player to watch in a post-J. Brown world. What are the, what are the combinations that you're looking forward to seeing? What are some of the, you know, the formations that you see in the McVeigh-Shanan tree that you just say, if you could put Devante Smith, Mackay Lemon and, you know, insert whoever, whichever player you want there, what are some of the ones that jump out to you as ones that you feel like

the Eagles will really lean into next year. And when I think of those formations and how I think they'll be different than what we're used to for the Eagles over the last few years, it's just more condensed sets where it's like both edges of your offensive formation can be condensed. So if you look at, all right, well, how many snaps do you see of Mackay Lemon getting off of like press coverage on the outside? He didn't have to do that. That's not the way he was used a ton at USC.

And I do think we have to remove this thought a little bit. Like not all prospects have to, one, look like, or do the same things as like Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson did, you know, years ago. So, like, you can kind of turn everyone into a slot receiver. And that sort of, in a way, is kind of the makeup when you look at Devante Lemon and Wix together. And, you know, I do think that Wix is quite a good blocker. That's something I'm interested in because, like, your best blocking receiver is going

to be very important for this kind of offense where a lot of times on outside zone, they're kind of attached to the offensive line and kind of working together in a certain specific way. So Wix is that the guy that's going to be motioned around a lot? And then I look at it and say, well, I'd like to have lemon in motion. I'd like to have Smith in motion. And that you could say that, see that and say, well, that's a problem. Right.

But you can also then look at that and say, well, I have three guys that you're really going to have to be able to find different ways to cover. Like, look at all the, the Cowboys defensive backs. You know, if you're a Cowboys, Ben, do you feel comfortable about having to defend those guys 20, 30 snaps a game? You're hoping that you can now use that kind of like different motion, different kind of stacks where if I don't want my guy to always be pressed, I can just use a formation to get him off of that. Like I can put these guys in good situations. But maybe on the more radical side of

formations, like I'm trying to think of the empty situations because I do think empty was something that it felt like the Eagles could go to and lean on a little bit at different times last season. And you look at the roster, it's like, okay, Smith, Lemon, Wicks. To me, if you're in your best 11, like those, not 11 personnel, your best 11 players on the field, I think that those three have to be on the field. So then you're adding into others. Is it like, like, like Hollywood Brown on Eli Stowers and we're just like, we're going Madden from like Madden to 25 and we're just like sort by speed on the Madden depth chart and just add each player. Yeah. I do think like again, to me the offense, it's not like, oh, it has to be under center play action, middle of the field

throwing. Now do I personally want to see a lot more of that? Absolutely. But I think when you have different levers to pull and say, hey, like you are not going to have defensive backs to be able to cover us. We are a little bit deep at the wider in the wide receiver room. Maybe not, you know, having the same high end level or it's like, hey, you know, you feel a little bit worse about your two than you did in years past. But I'm interested in some of these kind of more spread out looks because EJ, it feels like the tight end position has not been fully, uh, fixed, I would say. But I do think you still have past catchers in that spot. So if you are now looking at an offense that is saying, we're going to rely on this tight end room. We constantly make hard

blocks over and over. I think that to me, that strikes me as like, uh, illogical. I think, unless we see something really different on the field. So I'm kind of intrigued by some of the more like past catcher heavy kind of personnel groupings. Yeah, yeah, kind of to force you on the other side of the spectrum, though. I know you have some thoughts about the 12 personnel usage in this offense. Obviously, something that I think a lot of people expect Sean Mania to bring is multiple tight end sets. There have been some heated debates on this show about who that second tight end will be more often than not in a certain rookie's potential playtime.

but I guess what is, when you think about the multiple tight end sets that Sean Mannion may bring, what are some of the questions you have and some of the things that maybe get you excited? Yeah. So the biggest question to me is actually less about what the Eagles do and more about how does the defense respond to it? Because I think when we look at all, all these offenses are using tight ends more. I think the smart ones are not saying like, oh, I need to have, this guy's just going to block all the time or this guy is just going to be the past catcher.

It's more like, hey, can I get you into the look that? really I want to attack. So we look at teams like the ramps, right? If you get that kind of now they're doing a third tight end, right? There are, I think they'll move away from it in different ways. But like you get that third tight end and now say, okay, well, the defense is definitely going to get a little bit heavier. Now we're going to be able to run play action off that to attack you.

And when you look at actually how the Eagles did in 12 personnel last year, they did have a bunch of success in the red zone, but they actually ended up, I think it was like top five or top eight in terms of just like EPA and production on 12 personnel looks last year. So I, I mean, I have no idea. Who's going to line up as second tight end? If you say it's just Goddard and Calcutterra, and you think about last year and say,

okay, well, now we're going to take an offense that I think does a bit of a better job of relieving stress off of your tight ends and blocking in certain situations, whether it's, I'm just going to block down on that defense event. Now, if you're running outside zone to your tight end, that guy's going to have to make a big block. Or, you know, sometimes you're like, if you're trying to hook that defensive end and really get the edge there, that is going to be a tough block.

I think the Eagles maybe would say, hey, Stowers is going to be a big pass-catching body. and I mean, he, I'm sure he said it, right? Like, he needed to work on his run block. And like that is not a secret in any sort of way. So if I'm a defense, I am looking at Eli Stowers and he's on the field and it's like, oh, that's a receiver. Like I can't change the shape of my defense because the player that you lined up at that

spot has been designated tight end on the roster sheet. It's like when Mike Kisicki lines up at tight end, he is like always detached from the line and he's always going to be running a route. So I'm very curious just to see, well, what do defenses respond with? I think when you look at a team, like, the commanders, they historically have like a lot of times they'll put out base personnel. I think that ends up being an advantageous situation for the offense. So I'm really curious about that. I guess right, the David and Joku discussion, that's kind of fully out the window now.

Yeah. It's over now. Yeah. Yeah. Can't speculate on that at all. But if we look at this at the end of the season and say, well, the Eagles were just totally hamstrung by their tight end group, I think by first I would be at, well, what was Sean Manion doing to make their life easier in different ways, maximize their strengths, whether it's, hey, Sauer's always, always, going to be attacking vertically. Like last year, Packers, obviously, Mania wasn't the offensive coordinator for the Packers, but situation, I think it was against the commanders. Like, we're going to get to 12 first. We're going to get a third tight end there. We're going to run play action that way. Our tight end's just going to be running down the field. And I hope to see those kinds of

situations for the Eagles this season. Man, that is this. See, this is why we bring you on, Sean. Like you're sitting here like recalling plays from last season from the Packers offense. And I do think that that's going to be a lot of how the Eagles tight ends are used. I wanted to say one thing. you mentioned Calcutera as a second tight end. I feel like he's the least likely. You know, I think it's either Johnny Mutt, huh? I mean, I think it's either Johnny Munt or Eli Stowers. To me, if Grant Calcutera starts the season ahead of Eli Stowers as a second tight end,

like, I don't know, that would raise really major question. It would just validate a lot of the concerns that you have about Eli Stowers as a blocker. I understand that, you know, if he doesn't play much as a rookie, it doesn't necessarily, you know, mean that he can't develop into a, you know, number one tight end over time. But yeah, I think that I'll be honest, I'm not,

I don't think Calcutera's a lot to make the 53 right now. You know, I think that there's a real chance that Stowers kind of takes that role of from him and Johnny Munt is the player that you lean on as a block first guy. Well, Goddard and Munt as your 12 personnel. I mean,

now I feel like I'm doing radical optimism, EJ. I feel like I'm getting maybe too optimist to you. Do it. I mean, I'm seeing, look, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not going with you. I saw one clip.

I'm not sure it was from you, but on my feet, it's like, like Cole Payton is taking like an under center snap and working outside zone play action. I'm just getting excited just thinking about it. But I think if we say, hey, day one,

it ends up being Goddard and Munt. It's like, all right, well, I feel really positive about Munt as a blocker. I think he is like adequate as a pass catcher. Hopefully, you know,

you feel decent enough about Goddard as a past catcher and that he's like, he's not going to foil the entire offense as a blocker. And so we can say, all right, well, I feel decent about that. You think, all,

creativity there. You hope he's able to continue some of just the like tight end red zone usage from last year. And then now I mean, now, now I'm getting dangerously optimistic, DJ. Okay. All right. I got you there. You got me more positive. I got you more positive. This has been a good opening segment. But we're going to take our first break on the other side of it. We're going to talk about the next big question we have, which is how much of the Hertz Siriani offense can remain with the Sean Mannion scheme. How much of the offense that we've seen over the last few years. It's going to look the way that Jalen Hertz wants it to look. How much of that can coexist with what Sean Mannion is going to implement? So we'll talk about that on the other side

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social media last week of my, I mean, we've been call them WP Tacos trying to be respectful of all cultures, but you know, I like, I like a basic taco every once in a while. So I'll be heading to La La LaL later on. But yeah, Sean, a big question I had for you. And something that I've been saving for this discussion is the idea or maybe the fear that some Eagles fans have about the Eagles offense reverting back to what it's looked like, honestly, through several, you know, iterations of different offensive systems and offensive coordinators bringing ideas and trying to mesh them with Jalen Hertz's preferences and Nick Siriani's preferences. And, you know, I think that that dives into the middle of the field target rate and, you know, a lot of the under center stuff that we talk

about. How much do you think the concepts that we've seen that Jalen Hertz, you know, prefers and excels in? Do you think can coexist with what Sean Mannion's going to bring? I definitely think there's going to be some things that are kind of carrying over in different ways. one of the things I actually think of is, like something I like from the Packers is their shotgun run game. I think back to the game of few years back in Brazil, where in the middle of the game, it felt like the Packers were really able to have success.

Motion a guy oftentimes did it from right to left. We're in gun. We're going to get into kind of a gap scheme attacking downhill run. So I actually think some of that can carry over in different ways. And now the middle of the field throwing thing, I was looking at it earlier. Of course, you know, no surprise. The Eagles were last, oh, for both of the last two years.

The Packers are 24th and 26th. over the last few years. I think the Eagles were like 23% and then the Packers were like 27%. So like, it's not like we have to see an offense throwing over the middle of the field at a 50% clip. Even like looking at like the top five offenses across the league last season,

I think they're in middle of field throw ranked. They're like 9th, 15th, 22nd, 26th, and 18. So you can find different ways to be positive and not just do that. To me, it's like the nuts and bolts of it really matter. I think like how concepts are read is a really important thing. Whether it's, okay, a lot of times last year, you know, they're functioning on these kind of pick-aside type reads

where really feels like too often only half of the play is really in play. Obviously everything is live, but like it just feels like, oh, well, we know it's going to be kind of concentrated on just one side or the other. So seeing some of those more like, hey, offense are they're going to have receivers running into Jalen Hertz's vision. Like he's going to, his like feet and his eyes really have to be tied together. I think we're going to be able to tell that really.

early on. Like I think from preseason game one, I'm going to be able to look at those concepts and say these are really exactly the same as last year. And you can run some of those same things, but they're just read a little bit of a different way. And I think you can tell Justin how Dale Hurts kind of his forward work from gun or from under center is dealing with that. So trying to think of other things that may carry over.

Something I think was reasonably complained about last year was just how late in the playcock some of those plays would go. And for some of these offenses that kind of. of major in multiple motions, multiple shifts. They are going to find themselves on, I'm sure Danes, we'll put out some chart again next year for like, hey, we're comparing that. Like, where, when you snap in the ball, it shouldn't be at like one second every single time, but we're going to see the play clock go down.

Whether it's these play calls are going to be a little bit longer, whether it's, hey, it's like one play plus a can, which is like, we're now, we're changing the play to a second thing. Like, that's just going to be the kind of function of the huddle. And I think early on, I might take a little bit to kind of get used to it. But I guess to more directly answer your question, I hope, like, relatively little. I would like to see kind of like a ground, really rebuilding of a lot of things. And it's frustrating to say when you have so many talented players where a lot of the top offenses they see, okay, we're going to be able to repeat things over and over with our play caller.

We're going to be able to build on things. I would love to kind of start at that step one and really change a lot of things, specifically like, hey, now you're a day one outside zone team. Not that every single run play has to be outside zone, but that's able to now tie to our play action. And defenses across the league, I think have done a much better job. Like you can't just run outside zone and boot

and expect to be a successful offense. But when that is the starting point for you, I think the different things that you get to down the road, I just think they're a little bit better to deal with defenses now than in the past where even during the Super Bowl run, it was like, Sequin Barclay, awesome run, a ton of yards before contact. Like, we're running these beautiful plays

and it's blocked up super well, but how often you can roll. lie on that. When now we have an offensive lie injury, I think sometimes that's like just a little bit less stable. Yeah, that that leads me into like one of the concerns I had and I wanted you to do like an explain it to me like I'm five whether I should be

concerned about this or not. So to me, what I think of like the best version of this 2026 equals offense, I think it starts with Sequin and it starts probably with, you know, some of that shotgun run game that you mentioned with more under center run for sure. But still some of that shotgun run game implemented in.

And then it becomes a, the run game is, you know, the number one thing that teams have to figure out. They have to combat. And we've seen what J. Heurts is capable of doing against single high coverages. And I think a lot of that has come down to A.J. Brown and Devante Smith being able to win on the outside. And obviously, you're losing a big part of that in A.J. Brown. So how worried are we about, you know, if the Eagles do want to start to go back to some of their tendencies? Some of the, if it's single high, we're lining up our best players on the outside. And we're going to ask them to win those outside matchups. Are you worried about that if it's Devante Smith and Mackay Lemon in those situations? I guess Don Tavia and Wix might be the guy outside there. You know, should I be worried about that? Is that overstated?

Do you feel okay about that? You know, maybe this is me pushing you back toward the pessimistic side. How do you feel about it? Yeah, we'll see if you can push me back there. But I think one, I just think really highly of Devante Smith. So I'm really interested to see just him continue to grow where it's not, hey, you're the best WR2 in the league. It's like, no, you are a solid, bona fide, WR one to have. So I'm interested to see, because I was thinking about this,

when it's third and eight, and the league is, it's 11 personnel versus nickel defense. Like, that is what decides so many key, key situations in games. It's like, well,

who do you go to? And I'm comfortable if it's Devande Smith. I feel quite good about that. But I'm hoping that even if it's, well, I need to be able to win this one-on-one, you're still getting just more overall assistance from your offense. Whether it's, like,

yes, you're in the 11 personnel versus nickel-de-fense, defense. Like this is kind of basic. But now we're motioning that outside wide receiver to the inside. He gets a running start. Maybe it's Mikele Lemon like, hey, even if he's not wide open, he is taking that safety down. So I have a post going over the top. So I think like, in theory, I have a lot more trust in the ways that this type of offense should be able to just open guys up. I think back to it was a Packers game against the Cowboys where they're just like, they're using like two posts kind of over and over. There's actually a jailing through a touchdown to AJ Brown

on a similar kind of thing against the Vikings. I think it was last year where. you just need to be able to find different ways where it's my guy is awesome that can also give him some help like it doesn't just have to be okay we usually run a hitch to you now we're going to run a double move to you and like if the db's in your face like maybe you end up slowing down and it becomes a problem so i do think like you lose a jr brown your wide receiver room is taking a step back like i'm not going to like just remove everything that azure brown is done yeah so i think his play last year was maybe not as good as it was a few years back yeah i think that he would probably say that as well but you you're now hoping hey we're going to make our quarterback's life easier. We're going to be able to make these wide receivers life easier because I think they have enough skill sets, even if you look at some parts and say, all of these guys function in similar ways. I don't think that's fully true. Like I think Devante is a very actually good vertical threat, like the touchdown against the bangles, just like absurd catches that this guy's able to make down the field. So I think you're taking the like roots of what you have and saying we can actually scheme these guys up open in a few different ways. And now

we're really rolling forward. You know, I think that's going to be like music for a lot of Eagles fans' ears. Like the, hey, my guy is awesome. But like we could still give him some help. You know, I feel like that is very antithetical to what we've seen from the Hertz, like from Siriani mostly from the Siriani offense where it's like, you know, simplify it, let these players just go win their matchups. I do think, you know, that's not necessarily in line with what we've seen from a modern offense. I think it's fair to say.

Yeah. It's going to be interesting because look, they've won a lot of games the last four years, right? Like they've made this Super Bowl twice. They've won one and like we're really good on offense for one. it's really going to be interesting because like if it's hey we have to take a step back early to kind of now hopefully take two steps forward and you ideally like the offensive coordinator it's not just a one year project in that like you can build on what you're going to do whatever

you can have the conversation about oh you have this OC he has a high year he goes somewhere else like look all we're worried about his next season but you're hoping that now you can have this kind of this type of offense stretch forward where jalen is fully able to buy in the wide receivers are put in positive situations, the offensive line. You know, it's something I'm really interested in is like just against the blitz overall. Last year, I think they didn't do as good of a job as against the year before. And if like when you look at some of like Kyle Shannon's past protections, there are some just like overall advanced things, certainly.

But a lot of times it's, hey, like it is tied to our play call. Like it is set it and forget it type protection where it is called at the line. Like we are, we don't have to go through 17 different things. Yes, like if they bring an extra blitz, we have it built in that we're going to throw to this certain wide receiver defense is now, I think, do a really good job of manipulating that and taking advantage of that. So, Seahawks specifically do an awesome job of that. But, you know, that takes a little bit of, you know, stress off the center, takes stress off the quarterback, lets the quarterback play faster. And I think if you have Jalen Hertz, playing fast,

playing on time, eyes in the right spot, things to be really, really good. Yeah, I mean, that in rhythm stuff was really lacking last year. All right, so that's going to do it for Taco Tuesday, presented by Wawa, get over to Wawa, get yourself some tacos. They got a lot of options over there. Like I said, I'm going to be heading over there later today. We have to address something before we go to break. We have to address something that's going on in the chat, which is just a very warranted appreciation for Sean's hair. Now, I realize people don't necessarily always get to see Sean. You know, if you're a listener of the Ringers Philly, especially, you hear Sean a lot, but you might not see, you know, that he's a handsome guy

with great hair. I mean, the people want to know, Sean. Like, what are we doing to get our hair camera ready in these types of situations? Look, I mean, you have to be on camera all the time. So it's stuff. I will say, I mean, I am a, I'm a man with brown roots. So I have, I'm fighting generations of hair loss. We're doing our best. You know, will it last forever? It certainly won't.

Looking at the elder males in my family. So, you know, while it's here and the camera only has to see this front part of my face, you know, we got to do what we can. Actually, the problem is, you know, I've moved to Virginia for my wife's work. Yeah. And I don't have a barber here. So should anyone have some wrecks in the old D.C. Virginia area, you know, not again. it. Let's get working on this community, P-H-O-I community, whether you comment it, reach out to one of us on social media. We need to get Shauna Barber because that is a scary. That's when you're out in the

wilderness without a barbers, that's like going out in the wilderness without a franchise quarterback. You know, that's like, oh, straight jail and her. You don't be out in those streets. You don't know what's out there, man. You can be out there for a while. So I need to make sure we take care of you there. But yeah, I wanted to give you your flowers. You look at whatever we have a remote show, I like, I look at the hat that I have, it's this hat here. I usually have it sitting right in this corner because it's like, I don't feel like doing all that. So, you know, you at least came correct for the show and I appreciate that.

Yeah, but you have a background. So I, my old space had like a nice kind of decoration. You just moved. So I'm like, nobody's giving you any, anything. It's understandable. I mean, moving, moving is, it's tough. You know, you did. Let me tell you how many L-wrenches I have.

For our video listeners, I just have, I just have all of these L-wrenches. There's just so, there's so many L-wrenches. I have. You call those L-wrenches. I call those Allen keys. That's interesting. Well, E.J., you're probably proper. I'm just following the instructions and kind of doing this thing, that thing.

But I mean, it look like an L-wrench to me. Whatever. These Allen wrenches, I have like a generational amount of these. I don't know. I've got to find an L-wrench donation system now. Yeah, it's a work in progress. It's all good. So, all right, we're going to take our next break.

On the other side, we're going to talk about how much patience does this Eagle's offense have, you know, how much goodwill in the building and also from the fans will they be afforded because, you know, we're waiting for the schedule. I think, you know, it's important that they get off to a good start. So let us know what you think about that in the chat, and we will be right back after this break. Introducing your new craving, Wawa now has tacos. That's right. Wawa is expanding its freshly prepared food lineup with new seasoned beef tacos, available

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Oh yeah, sorry, you are a part of the Yeah, the fandom I mean like when they win I'm happy So you're you're And I'm running for their success, certainly I feel like I'm not part of the family anymore You know, well yeah I mean you're a report like that like you're a journal

Like that is that is tough I don't have to pretend to be unbiased You know yeah that is fair Yeah, I need to not like you're I know you actually are unbiased like I mean yeah I need a I need a mailback on the episode With Sheel and Cliff I miss those guys

I texted you before the show I was like, I miss the, I won't say what program they use, but I miss the program that they use. I never use that on anymore when we, when we tape the show. So if you're listening to this shield or cliff, you know, you got my number. You could text me whenever. You know, you're allowed to text them to, EJ. I'm not hard to find, you know, I'm not hard to find. So when you're looking at the schedule release in a couple of days' time, you're seeing,

you know, who the Eagles are playing week one. You're seeing that early slate. How worried are you about that early slate? Are you feeling like that's going to be in? instructive for how the season goes based off of how this, this offense can kind of, you know, hit the ground with Sean Mannion.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot here. One, I don't know why I get so excited about the schedule release because I know the opponents, like, yeah, we know all the teams that they're going to play.

We know who's going to be home and who's away. But like, when you get that first hit of like, oh, on Thanksgiving, like they're going to be going to Dallas. I get so excited about it. It makes no logical sense.

Like, I think myself as a logical person, but, uh, yeah, you know, I am hoping, like, I just think you have to be patient. I think that the thing with me is going to be early on,

like, are you seeing like operational aspects kind of moving the right direction? But I need to see, like, is the offensive line healthy? EJ, this is something that stresses me out so much. Like, I think one of the biggest things that happened last year was the offensive line was really, really not healthy. And them taking a step back made things so much harder overall. I think Jalen was the leading rusher in both of the Cowboys games last year. and you just can't have that.

Like, you can't have situations where, hey, we're only able to get rush yards when we're kind of scrambling in different ways. So I'm personally going to be patient. I hope, you know, I don't know. Like, is anyone allowed to be patient? It's hard to be patient, especially now you're looking at, okay, everyone's going to talk about the Cowboys. Everyone's going to be hyped about the Cowboys this year.

The offense is awesome last year. You look at things building kind of in the right direction on defense. So you obviously don't want to be able to or don't want to fall behind in any sort of way. I think the, you know, a realistic. outcome could be that the defense is able to carry things early on and the offense is, you know, you're, you're fighting your explosives. Maybe it's not as consistent like the Packers offense was generally a high EPA, low success rate type team. That just generally means, oh, you're getting a lot of explosive plays, but you're down to success may not be the same kind of as some

of the top or end units. So I could definitely see the defense carrying things a little bit earlier on in the season. I think you look at the overall schedules and are just the opponents. You can say, well, the strength of schedule is a little bit lower. I try not to buy too much into that just because it seems like you're you always find a way to like the cowboys last year were a team that i don't think a lot of people were particularly high on you end up splitting games with them so i just think we have to be patient like we have to be but i think that you'll be able to start early on like if you're not seeing signs in the right direction like if you're seeing uh like double teams for the offensive line on outside zone or just like not working like you can

start to be like yeah it's like you know you certainly can fix those things as a season goes along, but it's like, man, you, like, you need to hit the ground running on a lot of those things. Yeah, that actually, it makes me wonder, like, the, the, the Eagles playing the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. Does that mean that they have like an early Cowboys matchup that they, that, you know, and is that a good thing or doesn't mean that they'll play the Cowboys twice in like a three or four weeks span like they did with the Giants last year? Because, you know, I wanted to make sure for balances sake, you know, I flashed up the Cowboys and Eagles offensive rankings earlier. I also put the, you know, I wanted to the Eagles and Cowboys defensive rankings and I think it's important for context sake.

Like the Eagles defense last year, even in these numbers, I don't think it necessarily captures just how dominant the group was in the latter half of the season once Jalen Phillips was added. But you can see 13th and total yards, fifth and points allowed, 12th and success rate, eighth in EPA per drive. And by comparison, Cowboys defense was clearly like in almost any category, one of the worst defenses in the NFL 30th and total yards, 30 seconds and 30 second in point scored, 31st success rate, 30 second in EPA per drive. So obviously the Cowboys have done a lot of work to rebuild that defense and they added

Christian Parker and that will be a very interesting, you know, subplot of their early matchup. But I sort of do feel like if you can get the Cowboys early, it probably would be a favorable thing for the Eagles offense, especially because again, what we talked about at the top of the show, I think it might be instructive early for the Eagles offense on where things stand. I guess what is the thing, aside from like offensive line injuries, you know, just like a lack of, you know, them, them playing the same, similar to the way that they played last year. What do you think like the, the negative outcome is for if it starts slow? What do you

think if, you know, if I told you, oh, man, they're going to, they're going to really stumble out of the gates for the first four or five weeks. What is the thing that you are, you would be worried about seeing in the latter half of that year? I mean, like, Sean, man hasn't called place before, right? So as much as I am like believing him, not just because we share a first name, though spelled slightly differently. Like, you know, it is a little bit of like you have that skill or you don't, like two live call plays. Like, yes, there are all of the things on a whiteboard, the infrastructure, the building it, the getting, getting buy in, like, hey, we're going to make sure we have

this kind of layer of plays. Like, you still have to do it live when the lights are on, when there is a ton of stress. And like people are, are really, really like in just like immense pressure situation. So I would expect him to grow into. it like again i just i believe in it like i i'm buying what they're selling and so i think i guess i wouldn't be surprised if you see some of those struggles uh early on just in terms of like hey the play sequencing or like you know like do you find at the end of the game it's like devonty smith hasn't had enough targets like i could see a world where that happens just because mannion hasn't had to call plays live before so that's going to be something i'm really really

monitoring that is something i do think can improve like uh i would i would hope that if he finds those struggles early on it's not like oh they need to take play calling away from like they need to go in a different direction because I would be quite frustrated if it's like well he got to build the entire system like it's all of his Legals but now someone else is getting to play with it like someone else is calling the plays and maybe it is someone has a better play

ability but I would assume that he's probably the best guy to be able to kind of call those things live so that's going to be something I'm really monitoring what the like what your kind of winter matchups are going to be or something I'm intrigued by just by like we have this kind of just like the overall wide receiver room like are you able to

say, okay, the defense has a weak nickel, we can attack that person. They only have one week cornerback. We can attack that person, like the ways that the Cowboys in week one last year, we're going to do everything we can to just like frustrate Adori Jackson and then Georgian Bennett, I think played in that game as well. So like, are you able to now take these guys who maybe not all of them are wide receiver ones, but in the right situation against a team where, you know, you're lacking in one spot, are we able to kind of hone it on that matchup, use our scheme to be able to take advantage

of it. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. I've got one final offensive question for you. This is kind of funny because this is one of the questions you sent me, but I'm just going to turn it back on you here because you did the work on this one. And I'm excited.

People also know my answer for this one. Who is the biggest beneficiary of the scheme that you're expecting Sean Mani to implement here? You know, I have been pounding the table for this is going to be the year of Devante Smith. Last summer, I said it was going to be the year of A.J. Brown. And I was correct for the record. You know, maybe not for the reasons I thought it was going to be the year of A.J. Brown. But it did turn into the year of A.J. Brown ongoing to do the same. to this point. Who do you think on the field is going to be the biggest beneficiary from the

system? When you watch the film, who do you just envision like, okay, this guy is going to be an ideal fit for what Sean Manning is going to bring? Oh, you know, this is tough. A little bit different than the question I posed. I will say it feels like Devante is the right answer. Like, it really does feel like that because not only situationally, hey, you're the wide receiver one. Like, you're our guy. It is third and six. We need to get a bucket. It is you. Like, it really should be relying on you. I do think that we're going to get situations. where we're going to see him and appreciate him more as a like a deep vertical threat because I don't think they necessarily have a guy that I'll like just go running down the field and like

just take out all these snaps. Maybe you can look at the roster and say your WR4 is able to do that. But like you want him attacking DBs over and over. I think we're going to be able to see just a more diverse route tree. Overall, I think the Packers offense does a good job of having like outbreaking routes from outside receivers while they're condensed. So that's just a timing thing with a quarterback. I think that should be fun. I think from about like a story perspective though, this could be just like a massive Jalen Hertz win. Like it could be. Obviously it's a huge question mark.

It's probably like the biggest question of the off season. But you get to now answer like every single question that people are looking at. And again, I'm not of the belief that he has to be top five in middle of the field throwing to have a successful offense. So a lot of things I'm intrigued about like I mentioned, the ways that the Packers would get to outbreaking routes. I think that hurts like has shown the ability to do that. I think Mikey Lemon, you look at his film against like Illinois, he's shown the ability. he's shown the ability to do that and should be fun ways. But it would be pretty fun.

I think from a story perspective, obviously from an on-field perspective, if you're looking at this and saying, well, Jaylon Hertz is now playing super on time. His feet are tied to his eyes. He's getting one to two, two, to three exactly as he needs to. He doesn't have to be used in the quarterback run game. Obviously, that's lowered, I think, over the last few years anyway. But I think he has a high ceiling here, just because it's, you've shown the ability to succeed in parts of this offense at different times over the last handful.

full of seasons, but now we're going to super charge that. So that's the one that I think I'm rooting for the most. Obviously, you know, if your quarterback's playing at a high level, your, your whole operation is likely going to be functioning in a positive direction. So I hope at the end of the season, we look at it and say, well, actually, of all people, Jaylen Hertz was the biggest winner here. Especially because like what it would mean long term for this franchise and for Jalen Hertz, he's talked a lot about wanting to find a home, you know, in a system, wanting to find his version of Jeff Stoutland, you know, which has an age perfectly, you know, the last, you know, last little bit here, last few months. But for me, like, the, what listening to

you talk about Jalen, you know, the potential for Jalen to thrive in the system, I think about all of the succession planning that they've had, they've added to this coaching staff, you know, guys like Josh Grisard, you know, Gerard, sorry, why is his name escaping me? The, the guy who's in charge of special projects from the Texans. Oh man, this is So Gerard Johnson That's who I was Excuse me for that

So yeah There is a They have a lot of people in place Where if it is going to be You know a really great year for Jalen Hertz They've got people in the building That can that can maintain that scheme So obviously you don't know

If those guys will be great play callers But yeah Just what jumps out to me is like There wouldn't be We wouldn't be having this discussion again Next year if the Jalen Hertz really thrives in this system. There's enough

there's enough people across the NFL who run it where you do feel like, okay, this is Jalen's home base, which is something that he's talked a lot about wanting. I had one other offensive question for you to sneak in here. I'm not familiar. I'm not sure if you've been familiar with our debates about Eli Stowers's usage in his rookie season. But it's really.

Well, we all know how Fran Duffy feels about. So I'm going to present it to you. I'm not going to try and sway you or I'm not going to, you know, I want your honest answer here. Eli Stowers over under 38.5% of the snaps in his first season with the Eagles. That's a good question. It's a good question. Okay.

So I think last year, I think the Eagles were around like 30% and 12 personnel. I wouldn't expect Stowers to be every single 12 personnel snap. Yeah. I guess I lean under. I think this is partially my belief in our good buddy, Johnny Munt. But I think he could have an outsized impact as compared to the percentage of snaps. he has. Like if he has three 30-yard catches on like vertical routes where he's the second tight end, it's like, oh man, like, all right, well, we have an actual weapon that like people

kind of have to worry about. So I do take a longer-term view on Star Wars. I'll take the under on that specific question. Like, you don't have to be a mawling, mawling blocker as a tight end. You also don't have to be like a wide receiver level pass catch at the tight end. I think if you have enough to make the defense respect to you in both directions such that your offense can now take take advantage of the defense. Like that is the most important thing to me. I think that they realize that, yes, like picking Stowers in that way is a projection, unless you're saying, all right, well, he's just going to move to wide receiver.

I think it's been pretty clear. They're not going to do that. They're going to start working on his blocking. He just has to get to like a, like a level of competency at the NFL level to be able to do that. Now, that takes a lot of work. He's obviously a position convert like at Vanderbilt eventually. Yeah, just go line up as a wide receiver. Like, why are we wasting our time here?

You're really good at that. You can keep on doing that. So I'm interested, though, if we have this conversation again next year, whether it's like, I just need like five snaps with him doing it well. And then I'm like, okay, like we're working on it. We're moving the right direction. Defense has to respect it just enough. No, you're not going to win your one-on-one with the defensive end.

We're not going to make you block one-on-one with the defense event. But your past catching upside is enough that that's just like a totally other weapon with the offense. Now thinking like Tucker Kraft with the Packers, yeah, craft can certainly do both. I don't think Stowers can obviously like run block, for example, at that high of a level. But like I do point to at a certain level, it's the coaches, right? Like you're going to not that you have to turn Stowers into a plus plus blocker, but if after a while you realize that, you know,

you're not going to be dominating this block one on one, like you're going to pull into space and we're just not to feel great about it, then don't run it. Right. Like you're, you have to find, you can't just say we're going to absolutely go to this concept over and over, no matter who is playing like, you know, certain players are going to be able to do certain things at a higher level. So I'm taking that long term view on Starrows, taking the under on the most direct question for this season. Oh, man. If Bo Wolf is listening, he is smiling.

I won't argue about it because we got to get to our final break. And then we are finally going to talk about defense, Sean. I know you've been waiting. You've been eagerly anticipating some questions about the defense and Vic Fangio. You know, there just aren't that many questions about the defense. They're very talented and they're much less of a projection. So we'll get into that on the other side of this break. If you've made it to this point in the show, I just want to say thank you.

That's right, you for being part of the PHOI community. You know, it's been a really, really exciting time to work at PHOI. We've had playoff runs. We had the NFL draft last month. And it's just really always incredibly special to see the community and how excited and, you know, the energy around these teams. So I want to extend my appreciation for that. And I want to tell you guys that we're always looking to improve our shows and better

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Look, a lot of the more interesting questions are on the offensive side of the ball. I do think there are some interesting thoughts, though, on defense, which will, of course, talk about. But I get it. E.J, I'm not going to come at you. You know, I see, you got to do these daily shows. So you have this whole rundown. You have, you know, the A block, the B block, the C block. I appreciate that you're like, you're going to talk about my run.

being like even close to organize, they are, they are a mess. Usually it's like I start with a rundown. It's like, okay, let me start over and make this more concise. It's like when people like, you know, you know someone where they're like, oh, well, my room's a little messy, but like I know where everything is. As long as you know where everything is. Yes, that is very well put. I know where all this stuff is supposed to be.

But sending it to someone else can be a little chaotic. It's not as bad as my spreadsheets as Fran and Bo can attest. So I actually do have a really big question for you about the Eagles defense. And it's something that I think you and Fran, I would say, are uniquely equipped to answer as the tacticoes who I trust most in my life. So the Eagles secondary is transitioning at this point to me into being like their weak link used to be at outside corner where you think about Adory Jackson last season. I obviously like Darius Slay wasn't necessarily a weak link.

But, you know, they've tried to filter or cycle through veteran corners at that. second outside corner spot for the last few seasons. And now it's really looking like it's going to be at safety. You know, they signed Rick Wollen. I feel like they probably have one of the best cornerback trios in the NFL, if not the best. How do you feel about how a Vic Fangio scheme works with the potential weak link being at safety instead of corner? Yeah. So this is a great one. Because I think two kind of separate things. One, when you look at the safety room overall, you hope Drew Mukuba is able to come back healthy. I do think we think of like the touchdown he let up over the top against the Buccaneers.

And it's like, all right, you have some of those frustrating situations. I still, you know, I think you can hang on to some of that Blastery College tape. I do think you can feel like, all right, he should be able to continue to grow into a competent player at that position. I think when you look at EPS at the safety, like assuming he's your second guy, you can do the job, right? So it's not to me that like you have total incompetence at the position, which that is important, right?

Because then it's like, well, this is absolutely your weak link. Now, you know, you might, you know, you might, you know, you know, if you look at people that've written about it, they could say, oh, well, the safety is the queen on the chessboard and things like that. Are you tired of hearing that? Is that, is that like a phagioism that you're sick of? Well, I think the tough part is, I think that I'm not, not that it's like an original idea by any means, right? Like the queen of chessboard analogy is as old as time. I think when I wrote that, I felt like, like over time, I think it changes in different ways where now, or the first time, right, a safety rotated from like too high to now one high,

I'm sure an offense was like, wait, wait, wait, what are we doing here, guys? Like, we're not allowed to do that. Now it's a little bit different where you have one more players that are able to do that. And I think if, like, I assume that over time that if you ask Vic, Vanjillo, like, well, who's the most important player in your defense? It could be, hey, every single time it's the same position. I think it probably shifts a little bit just based on the error it's in, whether it's like, hey, you know, us having like really strong lineback in San Francisco was huge.

Us having Eddie Jackson in Chicago was massive. But maybe now in Philadelphia, it's like your cornerbacks are really important. And I think back to the Super Bowl year where, like, you're able to change the shape of your defense because you can put more on your cornerbacks plate. So if we say, hey, from the cornerbacks and the safeties, like, we have the whole pie and just everyone's slice is going to be a little bit different. So last year, right, Quignon being that boundary corner, Quinyan, you got a bigger piece of your pie. We got to give Adory a little bit less. You're going to play the wires side of Dory Jackson. Go ahead and make a few plays out there like against the Lions last season.

So you now have the ability this year, I think, again, to say, well, between, you know, Cooper, Woolen, and. Quignon, like those guys can really handle, I think, a lot. So we're now in more of a cover four that kind of like your safeties are playing a little bit less of the field. They're more than inside a kind of quarter of the field. Their job should hopefully be made easier because you can put more on your cornerback's plate. So like, do I feel great about it? No, E.J, I don't.

Like I love the idea of having this safety. Like the easy thing for the Cowboys like, oh, the Cowboys got Caleb Downs. Downs is your rotating safety. I actually hope he plays some in the nickel as well. I'm just thinking about his skill set overall. But to me, like a high-end safety, that bumps that ceiling of your defense up. But so much of it comes down to,

well, where are like the weak points on your unit? And if we're saying, you should feel pretty good about really all three levels of this defense. And then you look at the safety spot and say, look, that is just a spot. I think that's just an objective look at it. Maybe that lowers the ceiling overall. But if you're able to have coin-un locking guys down,

you're able to have a recoil unlocking guys down. And now if an offense wants to move Cid Lam into the slot, have fun with Cooper de Gene. Like that is still a positive matchup overall for the defense. So I think it may, maybe lowers the ceiling overall, but you know, Vick's still the one pulling levers.

Like he's going to find, I think to make everyone's life easier. I think he's shown that at different points. And when you also have, you know, our good friend Jonathan Grinard there that's able to hopefully shut out some or shut down some of these games, that is also able to make everyone's life,

I think, a little bit easier. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it does, it's trying to explain it to everyone like their five. like basically the strength of the secondary, the strength of the cornerbacks,

makes it so you still can be creative with your safeties and not worry so much about the responsibility on their plate. Is that, is that a good, you know, good reductive explanation of what you did. You didn't like my pie analogy. I thought the pie analogy was great.

I enjoyed the pie analogy. I'm not a huge pie guy. If I'm being honest, I'm more of a cake guy as a, okay, a vanilla cake, a yellow cake or a chocolate cake is what it's called. We're not going to get into that today.

But now, I wanted to ask you as you were talking, who do you think that Vic Fangio, if you gave him truth serum, which he doesn't need, he's always honest. I could probably just ask him his question. Who do you think is the most important person on the defense? Like players from the Eagles this year?

Yeah, Eagles 2026 defense. Do you think Vic would say is the most important? I mean, this is probably the hardest question I've ever got in my life. And this is because like there are so many good players. players actually, right? So, because part of me is like, well, like if you lose this player, what do you do? Right? And I think of, okay, like all pro Quinn on Mitchell, you remove him.

Awful situation for the defense, obviously. But, you know, you find different ways, you know, you have a safety over the top. Vic is kind of used to that different stuff and doing it. Right. If you look at the linebacker level, uh, Zach Bonn is awesome. I think he, you know, maybe not playing at the same exact level as he was during the Super Bowl season, but that is a really important player. You take him away.

All right. I mean, it is tough. And Vic, I think it is a linebacker's coach. at heart. Cooper DeGine, I think it's, like, unbelievably important. Like, I think he actually, yeah, I think he unlocked so much for this specific defense, which kind of informs why I hope to see Caleb down sometimes at Nickel for the Cowboys. So I'm sure I think Christian Barkle moving around in different ways.

So I think for this unit, I guess I'd say DeGine, just because, like, he, I think, unlocks a part of this defense that a lot of defenses across the league they wish, they just wish that they could line up in nickel to heavy offenses over and over and over again because they have a nickel that can tackle like a linebacker. But I also think Vic probably thinks, and I guess maybe this is a little bit more towards my feeling. Like your defensive line is just, it's just so important.

It just really, really is. And oh, look at me saying the controversial thing, the defensive line is important to a team. Like that is an obvious thing, but having the pass rush that's able to lock things out, like the Lions Ian last year where you have Phillips making a bunch of those plays, like that is so, so massive. You can get a call wrong here and there.

You can have a guy out of position. You can just get beat in the secondary, but you're able to clean things up with that defensive lines. I think you're hoping that Grinard is able to do that. But I'm going to go ahead and say Cooper for now. And then I could be wrong. Like I think it probably changes based on the day, right? Or just based on the opponent and who you're seeing.

Yeah, I feel like Cooper to Gene, like the schematic versatility that he offered them last year. I always lean toward going with him. But I think Quinnette Mitchell, I think Jalen Carter, I think Zach Bonn. If you said to any of those guys, probably. Yeah, I don't know. I'm high hopes for for car also uh thinking about like did jean i assume it's going to play safety and base too so like yes do we have concerns about the stages overall but what is it like 22 of snaps you're going to play in basic you're always going to take a little than than whatever

the estimation is especially in the out in the public so yeah i think the gene wins that one um all right we have to go to overtime here um but you know for all the for all of our fast friends i I appreciate you watching. Come over to all p.H.O.I.com to see the rest of this conversation about Vic Fangio's defense. So it's time for overtime. All right, Sean, you had another defensive question that I want to get into because I feel like the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast is, I would say, planted our flag on this topic. But I'm curious to hear how you feel about it. Obviously, you sent it to me.

So it's clear that you may be a little conflicted about it. And that is Jalick's Hunt versus Nolan Smith. is maybe the number two edge rusher behind Jonathan Gernard. I guess what are your thoughts there? Yeah, the question to me, it started with, well, look, what is your closeout for? Like, what is your defensive line going to look like when you're just rushing for? Like, yeah, maybe you'll send bond from the second level, Campbell as well. But, like, you're rushing for over and over and over again.

Like, Gernard lock, right? Carter has to be a lock. Like, he absolutely has to be. Like, if he's not on the field or if he's heard, that's going to be a tough situation. I assume, OJamo, you know, is going to be your second defensive tackle. Jordan Davis maybe continues to take that. jump forward. But when you add Granard in there now, you get one more spot

there. So the Hunter Smith thought is interesting. Because if you asked me two years ago, right, it's like, well, obviously it's going to be Nolan Smith. Like there's just no way that this, you know, former safety is going to be able to kind of grow into this role. But like I like what I saw, I really like what I saw from Jaylex Hunt last season.

And I will, to be clear, this does not have to be a, oh, one guy hits the road. Now, when it comes to salary cap time, like that's well that how we deal with that, right? We don't have to deal with that. both these guys are going to be rotating back and forth. And I like, I love the way Nolan Smith is able to take on blocks. I think he's really,

really positive in the run game. Like he quite literally hurts people. Like we think back to the Packers last season. Like if you want to pull into Nolan Smith, you're probably going to come at back feeling a little bit, a little bit injured. And then I think of, he also might come back a little bit injured.

Yeah. Like I think, like you aspire to have Nolan Smith's like attitude. I just think he loves football. Like the way he plays like he loves football. And like, I think you aspire to have that like level of enjoyment and love for like anything in life.

So it is kind of beautiful. I do think though like Gernard is obviously you want him going forward. I do think Gernard's a guy that you can drop back in coverage. Now I guess EGM thinking about it. Why would you want that guy drive back in coverage? But he's able to do it. He's done it.

He can do it at a decent level. And so having him and Hunt means like, all right, you feel quite good about both these guys driving out. I actually think Nolan Smith can do it at a decent level. I think Hunt's pressure rate was a little bit higher than Nolan's last year. It's like not even that all I thought Nolan took like this step back. Right? Because I do think he really impressed me during the whole Super Bowl.

season. It's obviously tough when you have those injuries. Like it is just such a rough thing and we don't, we don't ever have to take away that season. One, Vick's going to tell us, like, he's going to show it to us on the field. Like, I love when coaches, like, you can say and feel and think whatever you want, but like when it comes down to it and it's that drive against the Falcons in week two a few years back, like whoever your four guys are, like, that's who you kind of need. So I like the idea of, hey, you have this kind of rotation between those guys. I guess you kind of have to favor hunt at this point to start, right? Yeah, I was going to say, we, we, we, we, we, have been bullish on Jaylickson on this show.

Um, Bo in particular. I, I remember like watching the Eagles joint practices against the Cleveland Browns last summer, like not to compare anybody to Miles Garrett, but like Jailix Hunt is one of the few players who like, AJ, we got to be careful. Well, no, listen. I want my, my, my other favorite tactical here.

I would have sitting there with Fran Duffy. And it's not like we're saying, oh, yeah, he's going to be Miles Garrett. But like physically, there aren't many edge rushers who can stand next to Miles Garrett and still look like a football player. You know what I mean? Like, there aren't many. Yeah,

that's a good point. It's a very good point. I would actually really like to see those guys, you know, on the field together, just for comparison sake. But to me, like, that is, that informs the ceiling at the very least that J. Lickson has, not Miles Garrett, but just to be built in a way that most Eddressers can't really hope to be built.

And I think you, you saw it last year. He is a freak athlete, though. Like, no one's Smith is like his 40. You look at that stuff. Yeah, he's explained. but he's not he's I'm talking more like less about the physical build yeah it's it's literally like the physical traits like when you when you see him walk on the field I know that's not everything but um I do think that Jalix hunt still has a lot of untapped potential um and when you look at the best

edge rushers in the NFL they are built oftentimes like Jalick's hunt is built now you could probably make an argument some of those a lot of those guys have motors like Nolan Smith's motor um but to me I still think that there's just another level for Jalick's hunt so for me I I lean toward Jaylux Hunt in that exercise. I think you could have like a real breakout season similar to some of the other defensive linemen we've seen from the Eagles in years past. It's a good,

I mean, I know if he's listening to this, he would say, oh, anytime anyone says it's a good problem, it's actually a bad problem. You need depth on the defensive line. Like I do not need to say that to any Eagles fan ever that have in the defensive line.

And like believing in Hunt, I think to me is not saying, oh, like we don't believe in Nolan Smith. Like, I just like, whenever I think of like a person that it's just going to like run through a brick wall. Like it is Nolan Smith.

Like he's shown it to you over and over. So hopefully that he's able to kind of get back healthy. But yeah, the the rotation kind of on the defensive line and thinking like Clint Hurt with JLock's Hunt like them continue to grow together. And then you look forward in time and say, well, Vic Fingio's probably going to retire eventually and say, all right, well, is it Clint Hurt? Is he the next guy? And then you look across the league and say, well, defensive line coaches, those aren't always the guys that are calling the place. But if you're able to really get the most out of those guys and, you know, you have your front forward just dominating like it's a really good i think a resume thing overall for clint hurt

who of course it's called plays before as well yeah yeah i mean personality wise he seems like he'd be able to succeed fig fan gio um but yeah the play calling thing obviously he's done it before but that would be a question just like talking about the eagles defensive line with you here it's like the thing that jumps out to me is like they are just going to be such a pain to play for other teams like you know jonathan granard nolan smith like on the edge those those two guys play with you know 110 percent intensity. They're trying to, they're trying to hurt you. Jalen Carter, obviously, Morrow, Jomo is a pain. If Brandon Graham is back, he is a pain to deal with. It's like, it's, it's like the level of annoyance that the offensive lines will have playing that group, I think is

probably, you know, toward the top of the league there. I, I really like the idea that, like, last year, it really was like, our, well, like our pass rush is funneled, or we're hoping that it's going to be funneled through Jalen Carter overall. But now when you say, one, we have Carter who should be a one. And guard, he's a one. He just is. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, He's, I think, not, is he a tier one? No, because Miles Garrett is in tier one. And no one else is able to get to that level. And that's okay.

But, like, I think he is a shot the game down type pass rusher. So now we're saying that. And we say, hey, like us Ojo Maniacs, we can hopefully continue to believe in a little bit of a push forward there. And Jordan Davis, I mean, EJ. Jordan Davis stops drinking the sugary drinks. This guy is killing it on the field. So you're not looking at it and saying, okay, well, a team is going to slide towards

Jalen Carter and we're just like fried, right? You can now look at it and say, well, we're comfortable in our one-on-on-on situations in all these different spots. Hey, maybe you have to chip with a tight end, like, which is, I mean, obviously not a full disaster, but it's like, well, now that makes all of our like at the defense backs, their lives a little bit easier. And just thinking of like Carter and Granard on the same side, EJ gets me like so excited just because, okay, two guys have to take Carter, but hey, now Gerard, who can absolutely stunt

is going to stunt on the inside and you're just not going to be able to do anything about that. Now Carter is the kind of outside edge piece of that when those guys are kind of flipping over. It's like, that is an exciting group. And that is not to mention, right? whatever happens with Bonn and Campbell, whether they're blitzing from the second level, whether one kind of goes to the defense event. So I think Vic's probably looking at those Phillies games overall and whatever happening for them, maybe not super fun, but thinking about this defense, like, all right, we got a lot

of guys. He's sleeping well at night. Yeah. It's going to be a fun group. It's going to be a really fun group. All right. I got a couple of quick things. Bo wanted me to ask you.

Is Project Hail Mary a kid friendly movie? Like, can you bring a kid to the theater to see Project? Yeah. Yeah, okay. This is like an important kind of thing in my life because I have three young nephews, like seven, five, and three. And so it's like, well, one, I have, you know, older cousins who essentially uncles and they, you know, you show you things that are just like a touch outside your age range.

That's like, I think, an important thing like that developed my taste in certain ways. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But if like, like, like, what would have been inappropriate for like, I think it was like a 10 or 11 year old? It's like, you know, I can't be held responsible for that. So in those situations, I personally lean away from it. So my answer was that was, was no. There wasn't like anything absurd, I think, in it.

And curse words, like, I mean, that's, you know, coin toss. Again, not my not my thing to worry about. But like, I don't know, there were a few things. I don't have to spoil it, but like some, like, not bloody things overall. But I think maybe a touch more mature where I can't be held responsible for poisoning the minds of the youth. That can't be on my ledger. Yeah.

It's very like law school of you to be like, that has to be your decision, Bo. I mean, it quite literally is, right? It's like, like,

so I, my youngest nephew, when he was like quite young, he loves Spider-Man, right? He's a kid, he loves Spider-Man. So we watch into the Spider-Rverse,

like, I love that movie, one of my faves. And then it comes to the scene where something happens. And I was like, oh, man, I absolutely should not have done this. Like, what, like, this is my bad here.

I can't be, I can't be, like, he's like, oh, I'm like, yes, no, that guy is resting. That guy is resting. He's not on a forever rest.

So I can't be held responsible for that. It's too much guilt, E.J., frankly. Okay, that's fair. Second question about Project Hill Mary, do I need to see it in theaters? Can I watch it? I've gotten conflicting reviews on this. Some people have said, you have to go see it in the theater. It's such a great theater experience.

But then some people are like, E.J., listen to the audio book. You got the off-season ahead of you. You can read the book. You can enjoy the story. They said the book was better. And then watch it at home. You know, when you have. a deep understanding of the plotline.

Look, I mean, okay, so I think this is based on, like, what you are after. Like, I am always, like, I am chasing the high of, like, the singular moment in a movie theater. I just think, like, you can't match that from, like, a visual presentation. I'm comfortable with the people that say, well, a movie can never be a book. Yes, they're quite literally two different mediums, but also, yeah, you can't have the same word, well, but like, that is kind of a different thing.

Like because the high that I'm chasing happens in a movie theater, yes, I would say, hey, this kind of has to be seen there. I would go a step further and say, like, I was lucky I got to see an IMAX. Like, EJ, you got to see it. Like, there is, there's one single thing that will mention and be like, well, this, this is exactly why this was said. At the same time, I understand EJ. You know, you got dogs take care of, right?

You got, you have barbecue to be barbecued. I understand. Not everyone's going to spend all that money. You got to spend the whole entire night. Like, I get that. I just, there was a special scene in there that I think we'll, stick with me for a while that it made it worth it to me. And whenever people ask me, oh, like, you ask me, right?

Oh, I got to watch a movie. I'm always trying to push people into the theaters because I think, like, on average, if you took someone and put them in a movie theater, they're going to enjoy it. Like, it's a nice place to be. No, movies are fun. Everyone loves the movies. Not everyone is able to make the time for it. So I lean towards that.

I'm not going to be personally offended. You know, I didn't. Well, I would hope not. Yeah. All right. You've swayed me a little bit more, at least to go to the theater. on a scale of 1 to 10, the scene that you're telling me about. And let's say that 10 is like the scene in Dune 2.

I won't spoil Dune 2, I guess. But you know what scene I'm talking about. I think you're allowed to spoil Dune 2. Okay. Well, how far a separated from the movie? Okay, fine. Spoiler. Spoiler alert.

Spoiler warning. We are going to be talking about Dune 2 if you haven't seen it. Maybe this is a good time to mute the podcast. Don't turn it off. Just mute it for a few minutes. Is this like a, you know, Paul Atreides, riding the worm type of scene like oh is it that's that's the bar for me to go to the movie theater for the i have my actually have my dune three tickets already booked for uh for iMacs and

philly so i'll be able to try about for that i sicko behavior from you i mean it's different i will say it's different uh but it like like i like my body couldn't stop myself from just being like oh when the thing happened so it's like whenever those things happen it's like oh man this this this will be ridiculous. Maybe it doesn't work for you. You know, maybe. No, I'm sure it will. You have, you have yet to give me a movie recommendation that I don't, don't enjoy.

All right. Last one for you, you have no idea. You will have no idea that I had this teed up for you. We're talking about football again. I got to turn around real quick. But always teases me for like, really liking Nick Rallis as a tactical, as somebody who is like interested in the modern, the guys who were innovating on defensive scheme.

Where is Nick Rallis in your tier one? of young defensive coordinators that are fun to watch because they try things. I mean, tier one is high. Like, I'm not going to give up what cheer one. He is,

like, I think you should be intrigued about, uh, what they've been doing just overall, uh, in Arizona. It's funny because you look at it and say, well,

team's not very good. I'm not going to be very good this year. It would be quite a surprise. Uh, the Eagles, I appreciate, yeah, they play the Cardinals again this year.

But I think some of the ways that they were flexible, uh, with their players and some of the ways that they would, get to some just like different presentations on defense and moving guys really like up and two and after and during the snap and everything it is extremely intriguing so like all as it just like a I want to see something different like yeah go ahead and watch that defense now again like you can look at their team success i think it was patrick tony who is uh like a i think he coached florida before that and a few different places i think he bought some different things to Arizona

as well but ralus yeah it's definitely intriguing like i am not upset that the cardinals are on the schedule. It's not going to be like, oh, man, I got to watch the same defense kind of over and over. It's definitely something different. So I'm going to put him in tier one. I think you're going to have to show a few other things in different ways before that. But I think he should stick around as a defensive coordinator for quite some time. I think it makes sense, you know, even if you're sticking over across regimes there just because like you're, you're doing some fun stuff that like, like, you have to because you're in the one of the toughest divisions in football. And like, you just got, you just got to kind of find a way to live over there. So I do think like teams are definitely looking at like,

I'm more thinking back to last year. Like, they definitely look at that and say, well, these guys are doing weird, unique things, but how these safety's match routes. Like, that's something that we got to kind of figure out and kind of move forward. All right. You did a good job sitting on the fence on that one.

You didn't declare for Bell Wormey on that time. I said not to your one. BJ, I got to present something to you here. I don't know if this ends our friendship. So as you know, in this apartment. And so, look, every day, you're trying to get dinner on the table in some way. And I know you'd be a firm user of the barbecue.

I'm old place. You know, we, we had the nice. Like, you can just go out there and spend as much time as you want there. Yeah. I made a stake in the air fry the other day, E.J. I, I, that's fine. Yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah.

I had to, that was like, that was like showing my kid into this, or not my kid, my nephew, into the Spider-Verst a little bit too early. It was, it was just riding on my conscience. I figured you were, you were the one person that I could, could admit it to. No, I think that's fine. I haven't made a snake in the air friar, but I've seen people do it. And it does, it looks fine. It looks good.

to me like listen i i won't name any brands don't want to give any free advertisements and don't want to speak uh negatively about anybody but one of the the grills that i have is basically just a glorified air fryer like one of the grills that you have this is this is a this is a guy with listen i got multiple grills you got to have different tools for different jobs um and one of them is like basically a convection oven that uses wood for fuel it's like between an air fryer and a smoker is what i would say you know i don't think that that that so Therefore, I don't think it's a violation. If you're into like a convection oven, reverse your steak, yeah, that's a different type of steak, but I'm all for it.

But, you know, let me know in the comments if you guys are against air fryer and the steak. Let us know what you think about some of the topics we talked about today. It's going to do it for us. I appreciate your time, Sean. I'm glad that we did not go two hours with the gift of Gab, as she would like to say. But no, I appreciate you joining. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for hopping on with us and filling the space for Beau today.

So like you said, that's going to do it for us. We will be back tomorrow talking about probably Eagle Schedule release, but we'll be back. So until then, appreciate you guys watching, listen and make sure to like the video. And as always, we love you.