PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Draft: Could Caleb Downs Drop, Dillon Thieneman Tempt Howie Roseman? | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Will Caleb Downs fall into the Eagles range? Or could Dillon Thieneman, Emmanuel McNeil-Warren or another safety prospect force Howie Roseman’s hand early in the draft? Bo Wulf, EJ Smith and special guest Devin Jackson from the Philadelphia Inquirer break down the safety and linebacker class to identify the prospects who can help fortify spots on the depth chart that lost key contributors in free agency. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the PHAY Eagles podcast. I'm a Toasty Thursday. O'Wolf, E.J. Smith, we are live from the Xfinity Studio, and we are presented by Ashley and Bet365. Two positions today. DJ Safety and Linebacker, and we're going to have a little help. Yeah. The great Devin Jackson of the Inquirer is going to join us.

We'll get to him in just a couple minutes. How you doing? I'm doing well. Yeah, it's warm out. I think yesterday was warmer. It was muggy yesterday. But enjoying the weather, went for a nice walk with my dogs and my wife. The dags.

This is probably the wrong word to do that. Yeah, I had a nice walk. Wait, what did you say? The dags. The dags? I don't like that one. I'm not a fan. But yeah, I'm excited for the show.

I'm going to get this. I was walking my wife on a leash like you did. I didn't imply that at all. I said I was walking with my wife and my dogs. Yeah. She was definitely not on a leash. Yeah, I will get this out of the way now. Safeties and linebackers are tougher eval for me.

You know, it's funny. I talked to my dad on the way in today, like about how I struggle to watch tape on safeties because it's not a position that you can like speed run like some of these other positions that you can see movement skills. It is really about understanding their use case, understanding. I mean, how they move is part of it, but are they productive? How much do they know ball? Yeah, are their instincts good?

Like, you have to watch a lot to really get a complete picture of a player at both of these spots. So I'll be more deferential to Fran's rankings and the consensus big board on this show than usual. But I think it'll be a fun conversation. And I want to warn you about one other thing here. I think I'm going to be, you're going to have to talk me out of some irrational things today, I think. Okay. So just a preamble for that. I think these are the two positions where I care about the bio more than any other position.

Like I will spend more time reading France breakdown of the person and the background and how much ball they've actually played more than other spots. Yeah. Because I am favoring here guys who have played a lot of ball. And it is why it is the one position where these two positions, but linebacker more than safety, I care a little bit less about age because I want them to have seen a lot. Yeah, sure.

And safety is like that as well. And so, yeah, we're going to get to what Devin, about it all, but it's interesting because there are three safeties who are going to go in the first round and who are all possibilities of some degree for the Eagles, and yet I really can't get there on Thena McKinnell-Warran. Really? Yeah, as possibilities for the Eagles. Yeah, oh, for the Eagles. This is the first like a rational thing that you're going to have to talk me off of here. I understand where you're coming from and I think it's probably the logical argument

is that there's no really good argument to use your first round pick on a safety especially with the contracts that they have coming on defense and just from you know as Texan fray about it earlier like from a resource allocation standpoint I can understand why you won't do that I could get there with these guys they're all awesome I mean I'm excited to hear

what Devin has to say about them because he's watched more of them than me but I'm not as clear closed off on the idea that the board falls in a way, that they are the best player on the board by a wide margin. I'm pretty, I'm pretty closed off on that idea. I think that's fair. I think you are probably right.

I just, I like, I like, I think I'm getting caught up, especially in this class, there's not as many guys that I can see pathways toward being true impact players, true different difference makers. And I do think that all three of those guys have a real strong fan. Here's one way to think about it. Yeah. What is the likelihood that Emmanuel McNair Warren or Dylan Thinemann is going to be an upgrade over Reed Blankenship? I think especially with McNeil Warren, I think it's pretty likely.

I think it's, it is a, it is a guess. It is, you might put 60 turkeys on it. I don't think he would be year one. And I think it would take a little time. And they wouldn't even pay $8 million. Yeah. For that level of, that is the strong argument at that position. So I don't see the Eagles doing it, but we need to be prepared for the possibility.

And with that in mind, let's bring in Devin Jackson from the Inquirer, their NFL draft expert. Devin, how you doing, my friend? What's up, Devin? Hey, how you guys going? Doing very well. Now, before we get into the safety, give us a little bit of background on your opinion of E.J. Having worked with him, what was he like as a colleague? How do you have to view E.J? AJ is a great colleague, great friend. You know, I mean, I remember, you know, this time of year we were talking a ton

because we were, you know, kind of breaking out the positional rankings at the Inquirer. And, you know, he had a big tension for offensive line. So I watched the pie yesterday and kind of laughed about it because that that was kind of the one thing that, you know, wherever he did, positional breakdowns, you always want to do off the tackle. So, yeah, that's funny. I was always selfish. Devin's being nice. I was always selfish about a couple of positions that's like, listen, I really want to watch these guys.

Offensive line. Really edge rusher too. I always want to watch the big guys. Okay. That's funny. You know, it was great. It was great. I mean, I had no complaints about EJ. You know, give me a lot of great advice. You know, it was always there for me and, you know, a big advocate for me. So I definitely have, you know, a lot of respect for you with the way that he approaches the job and how he does the job. He's an easy guy to advocate for us. Our viewers will find out in the next hour. This guy, he's an elite ball and over.

He is a tactical. Just like Fran is like ahead of the tacticoes, I'd put Devin in that same camp. All right. Well, Devin, don't be afraid to be loose with the insults on E. Okay, while you're here. And you do have a piece that's already up, breaking down the safeties.

Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, it came out this morning. I did a joint byline with Olivia. She broke down. What time? Where the Eagles, safety, where it stands, and kind of where it is ahead of the draft. And then I brought down six guys that I'm sure we'll talk through all of them today.

But more of the traditional safeties and then kind of those nickel safety hybrids. Okay, let's get into it. And let's start with the right people presented by True Mark as we talk about the guy at the very top of the draft. And without question, that is Caleb Downs from Ohio State. Six foot, 206. But measurements are fine. This is a three-year starter. started as a freshman at Alabama,

the first freshman to ever lead Alabama in tackles and then transfers to Ohio State two years of just looking awesome. What is it about Caleb Downs, Devin, that sort of jumps out to you as this guy, this guy is going to be a difference maker? Yeah, he's always near the football. He's always anticipating what's coming at him.

You know, the way he flies to the football, the way that he makes things right on the back end. I think it's just so excited. to see a player that is always there in the right spot, you know, has ball skills that you're looking for. You look back into his profile. He did pump returns for Alabama, so the athleticism is there, even though he didn't test, you know, at the combine or his pro day.

And then you hear from NFL teams and from teammates. He's one of the smartest football players that they talk to and been around. So he's a guy that play multiple spots, you know, both Alabama, Ohio State, if you need to play deeper coverage. You can do it. You know, near the line of scrimmage. You can do it. The ability to run the alley as a run defender. All those things that you're looking forward in modern safety, he's able to do. And he's such a great player.

You know, you know about his football character and instincts. And he was one of the highest rated ones that I at least I heard from the NFL combine that the teams love talk to town and picking his friend. So to me, he stands out as a Jahad Campbell type. scenario, a possibility maybe for the Eagles here. I don't think we'll be there, but we didn't think John Campbell. He's going to make it to 23. Yeah, but we didn't think John Campbell was going to slide in the draft last year.

Yeah. There's no injury reason for him to fall. It would be positional. It would be a positional value thing, and that is why you have to squint to see this scenario, and I'm not saying that I'm advocating this is going to happen. But it does make me think about the quote that Hallie Rosenen had about expecting the worst when it comes to playing out how the draft will, you know, how the picks in front of you will play out,

figuring out the different scenarios that could happen. And we've talked a lot about like an early run-on offensive line and where that would leave the Eagles. Now, I think Caleb Downs is going to be long gone even in that. Yeah. But he's just a player that could be a Jihad Campbell type. If we talked about Jihad Campbell a week before the NFL draft this time last year, all of us would have said I have a really hard time seeing the Eagles

use a first round pick on a linebacker, especially trade up one spot or try to trade up several spots to get a linebacker in the first round. I think Caleb Downs, again, in a draft where you're not, you don't have a lot of difference-making talents. I could at least squint and see it. Eight turkeys, maybe. Here is my take. Caleb Downs is a more likely eagle than the other two guys combined. Okay.

I like that take. I think that makes sense. And again, yeah, like I'm putting four turkeys on it. Yeah. I think if he gets to like 16, then maybe how he moves up to get him, something like that. But I don't think, we'll get to the other guys. But I do think, you know, a guy who will be very high on the Eagles board, there are no red flags with this profile at all.

This is like the best of the best from the best. Yeah. It solves a short-term and long-term need. This is like you're getting your Kyle Hamilton and he's, you know, he's arguably a better athlete than Kyle Hamilton, maybe not quite as versatile. They've got the cohab with him. That's true. Yeah.

I don't think it is impossible. Yeah, I agree. I think that this is like, you know, we will have talked about all of the scenarios by the time the draft gets here. And this is one of the ones that I just wouldn't rule it out. I'm less closed off on the other guys that we'll talk about. But I do think that there is a world where we are talking about like the Caleb down, The Eagles trading up to draft Caleb Downs and saying, just like it was with Todd Campbell last year.

Would you use, if you're going up that far, would you spend a one in two, three is on Caleb Downs? It depends on who you're bypassing, like who you're not drafting in that scenario. Like I would not draft Caleb Downs over Kenyon-Sadik. I would not do that. I would draft Caleb Downs over Kenyon-Zadik. I wouldn't.

For a better player. What do you think, Devin? Sadie downs over Downs over Shadegh, no question. No question. No, I'm still going, Sadiek. I am too myopic on this one guy. I am far more bullish on like the Sadiq fit with the Eagles.

And yes, I think, on BP. That's where, what's that? BPA, he's a better player. I wouldn't, if Sadiq were there, I would, I think he makes more sense for the Eagles. Okay. But would you spend, would you spend a one, a three and a future two on Caleb Down.

Future two? Oh, you made it, you made it richer. One and two threes. Let's stick with that. I probably, I probably would. I think I would. Yeah, I probably would. I'm like 53 turkeys would. And I feel like part of the larger conversation here, Devin, is that this position is the most difficult for not just the Eagles, but the league to evaluate in the draft.

Like, if you were to look at the order that guys come off the board, at safety, it is a much worse hit rate than most, if not all, other positions. And yet the top guy is usually, usually good at the very least. And then it's like after that where it's all jumbled. I think the certainty of this guy, Caleb Downs, is going to be awesome versus, I don't know if those other guys are going to be great. Maybe the sixth consensus safety is actually going to be the second best guy in the class. And the Eagles have sort of seen that in their history. I feel like getting the top guy, a premium player is enough for Howie to be interested. Yeah, the premium player, especially at a position that is non-premium, I think that's who you want.

You know, obviously, Downs is on the board in the 15, 16, 17 range. The Eagles won't be the only one calling to trade up and get them. So I think with he's going to be a very highly competitive, like if he starts to slip in the draft, like teams are going to get aggressive about getting him because maybe they're not expecting him to be there, you know, in the latter half of the first round. But yeah, I agree with the way that you're talking about safety because, you know, when I first started watching the draft, it was hard to figure out where these guys' range was. I remember a couple of years ago I came on here and talked about Jada Hicks and really liked him and then he went fourth round to the cheat, you know, so you don't really know where exactly these guys are going to end up, you know, after the first couple of guys. And honestly, sometimes it's better for players to flip a little bit in a draft and find a better scheme to play in versus, you know, forcing kind of a need.

I really like a premium player at a non-premium position. I'm going to borrow that, Devin, because that's, I talk about those guys all the time. I mean, like, Vanga Yawaneh, Kenyon-Sadik, Caleb Downs, and Manuel McNeill Warren. We'll spoil it there for you. Let's close the book on the right people presented by TrueMark Credit Union. We'll take a quick break. On the other side, we're going to get into the next two guys. Emmanuel McNair Warren from Toledo, Dylan Thineman from Oregon.

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house if you've got Ace on the other line. Ace Harder Home Services, tell him PHLY sent you. Back on PHLY Eagles podcast, Bo and EJ, joined by the great Devin Jackson of the Inquirer and Devin. Let's talk about the next two safeties. And if you were Howie Roseman and you were picking a safety, and both of these guys were on the board, who would you take?

Dylan Thineman or Emmanuel McNair Warren? You're muted, lost you. Sorry, I muted myself during the break. Emmanuel McNeil Warren would be my pick between the two, specifically for the Eagles, because I think of the still set already in the room and with Drew McCuba, where he's really good at,

which is the coverage ability, but the other safety spot feels like, feels they need to have a run stop for a guy that can come in the box that can conceal the run that it's a little bit more better toward the line of scrimmed versus in the deeper zone coverages so i like minneau warren obviously the tlato connections there next eriani in his connection with jason candle um but also i like mcdell warren just a little bit better uh than being a man you know freemly physical uh guy that can fly downhill um you know maybe made guys pay, you know, coming over the middle of the field, the ball skills, the range, the ability.

I talked to Jason Campbell during the fall and talked to him and all the defensive coaches, you know, about Big Neil Warren. And he came in as a guy that was, you know, relatively raw, but had the ball skills already. During that freshman fall camp, he had like 12 interceptions in his first full fall camp. him. And it just shows, you know, the most skills he has, you can talk to him and get to know him. I think he'll be fit in the equals locker room. And I just really like the player. And then what do you bring to the table from the skill set perspective? If you were unfamiliar with Neil Warren, 6 foot 201. It's got small hands, 9 inch hands, but ran a blazing 43540, an awesome 41 inch vertical jump. 22 as a rookie was a four-year senior. Now, only a starter for two seasons at Tile.

despite all of that athletic talent. What jumped out to you? You really liked the player. Yeah, I really like the athletic profile that he has. And one thing that I feel like I need to, the box I need to check with these premium players at non-premium positions, especially at safety, is the versatility side of it.

Because I could sit here and make an argument. You look at a guy like Kyle Hamilton, you look at what Cooper de Gene's going to get paid. If you can fill a lot of different roles and wear many hats in a defensive system, I do think that that makes you a more valuable player and kind of pushes you into the range of other premium positions. You know, Kyle Hamilton as the key example there.

So I think Emmanuel McNeil Warren can be that type of player. I think he has the versatility and that rangey, you know, that like those rangey, the physical traits that make him the type of player that you can match up against tight ends. You can trust him to flow down against the run and also make plays in the past. So for me, I really liked him as a player. I like the Toledo connection that Devin pointed out. And yeah, I think

four turkeys that if he's there, the Eagles If he's there, the Eagles would take him because I figure there will probably be somebody at a position that they value higher there. But I just, again, I keep going back to, I think that this is a guy who can be an impact player in the league.

And if you're dealing with a bunch of players you don't think, check that box. I think he does. I didn't quite see him playing to that time speed. Okay. He didn't seem like a four. 435 guy on the field to me. But I am curious, I'm interested,

Devin, in that the thing that you are hanging your hat on is his ability to play in the box and come downhill as a run stopper. I think that's maybe not the book that people would have just looking from the outside because of the athletic profile. Got you muted again. He's the guy that plays bigger than

than a size suggests. You know, you consistently saw him at Toledo, coming down and making plays inside of the box and making plays in the run game. And I felt like there was a little bit missing there for the Eagles in their secondary last year. You know, I thought there was some inconsistency there, especially from Drew McCuba and kind of learning the NFL game and, you know, being able to consistently come down forcefully, you know, re-blanked sure they're a pretty good job of doing so. But I just didn't think they had that enforcer type, you know, that C.J. Gardner Johnson was, you know, and what he brought to the defense for the Eagles, even though, you know, obviously there was some coverage bus and things like. like that from Garner Johnson, you know, he took the ball away and filled in the run game.

And I think that's what the Eagles were missing last year from their safety position. So I think Mill Warren brings that ability. You know, and he takes the football away at a high rate. You know, I think he forced like four or five fumbles this past season with Toledo. And he consistently had that type of ball production where he's punching the ball out, taking away from intersection-wise and being around the football in that aspect. I could just hear a Howie Rosen Press conference. I'm going to keep banging this drum.

I can hear a Howie Rosen Press conference where the argument is you saw what the Eagle secondary looked like in 2024. You saw what the Seahawks secondary looked like in 2025. To win in this in today's league, you need to have an elite secondary with no weak points. I think Emmanuel McNeil Warren, but the versatility you offer just to give you that. What is the value of Quinnianneux and Cooper DeGine having these two awesome guys? if you still have to go out and spend $16 million on Brickville and use a first-round pick on a safety.

It's not like a compensatory thing. It's having more versatility and more levers that you can pull against elite offenses. I don't think it's like, oh, we need to have a high-level safety behind these guys. I think it's like, can we do more creative things with, if you have a versatile safety that you can pair with Cooper to Gene, like, that's one of the things I wanted to touch on today

is like if they had like a really crazy defensive coordinator. like you could really start to get like wild with some of the things you could do here. Instead they just have the best defensive content. I'm not arguing that. I'm not arguing that at all. I've said that on the show before. Like you wouldn't trade Vick Vangio for like Nick Rallis. But like, yes, you can do some idea of Nick Rallis as like the renegade.

Wizard. I don't know what he tries more things than Vic Fangio. That's why I use him as the example. I just think that there is some added versatility and some dynamism you can add to your secondary with a player like him. I also think which we will get to, Devin, I think this class is deep enough, unlike some of the other positions we've talked about where there will be guys on day two and maybe even early day three who I think will be able to come in and compete to start for the Eagles. That's the other reason that I really do feel like the idea of using 23 on either Thineman or McNeil Warren is kind of short-sighted and not what the Eagles would do. But you already know where I stand there. Let's talk quickly about Thineman, who is a different kind of player than McNeil Warren, much.

taller, six three and a half, and that really stands out when he's on the field. 201 played two years as a starter at Purdue before transferring to Oregon this last season, tested well, no flags there. I feel like when he is flying around, you do see it on the field. What impresses you about Thineman tape-wise? Yeah, he's a guy over the last two years. He's played kind of two different roles. You know, he played more of a single high.

You know, he's able to show his range and coverage at Purdue. last year. And then at Oregon, he's playing more to kind of that robber role, middle of the field role, coming more downhill, being more of a middle of field enforcer. So you like to see versatility that he brings from that perspective. You know, he has some big nickel snaps as well that makes you decide for, you know, you can move him around the secondary and play multiple roles. I really like that that ability. I thought he was better this year, specifically, coming toward more toward line of screens versus in this back pedal and then making plays on the football in that perspective. I've been a ball skills are obviously what stands out.

You know, he's physical, you know, able to make tackles, you know, running the alley in a run game. And just such a strong player, a guy that to me, you know, is compared to McNeill Warren. I think he has a stronger floor compared to McNeill-Warn because he can play a couple different roles where I think McNeill-Warr is more of a boxing. the role at the NFL level. There's a new great man coverage, worry a little bit about his hoop hip fluid to stick with receivers and tight ends. And so there's that one drawback there. But yeah, he's been a guy that, you know, to me,

has been consistently talked about in his draft class, you know, kind of ran a surprising time at the 40, which I think kind of accelerated where he is on the board. And people were talking about as high as 12 to the Dallas Cowboys. I don't quite see that in him. You know, he's more in the 20s for me that that will value him at. But he's a really strong player that, you know, I think has a really high floor and a very productive and multi-suit guy that they can play multiple teams. And AJ, do you think that he likes wine?

Yeah, when I saw your card there and I, how do you pronounce that wine that you? Shabli. Shabli. Yeah, I was going to say, Chabless. I was like, no, I swear to God, I was. I'm not a wine guy. So I was like, what is that? And I had to Google it.

That aside. Yeah, do you think he would step in? If they draft him in the first round, you'd think he would just hot shot in and take Reed spot on the podcast? I don't think he would do that. That aside, I do think he is a Vic Fangio type player.

Like, I want to make sure play personality-wise, I think Vic would enjoy watching. I mean, I liked watching his tape too. I think that is. Yeah, he's got a real physicality, a real like 110%. You know. Jim rat.

No, no. I'm just saying he definitely has like, He has that edge that the Eagles have looked for while Vic Fanjo's been in the defensive coordinator. But I'm kind of with Devin. I didn't see like a top half of the first round safety. I preferred McNeil Warren ever so slightly. But it's a good athlete.

Again, like physical and has some versatility. But yeah, I'm less. I like the player. But to me, he does. Honestly, both of them to me look like, you know, good second round picks. As opposed to top 25 guys. I'm a little bit higher on McNeil Warren. you. I mean, I just, I think back to, to, and this is an unfair comparison, but even Worry

last year, yeah, who doesn't go until the second round, and he's in hindsight, he probably should have. Well, of course he should have, but he looked much more. I mean, he looked like a superhero on tape to what he was moving. I felt that way about making a war. Okay. I felt that way. And I, yeah, I'm surprised you didn't feel like he looked like a superhero. He looked very good out there to me. So, okay. Yeah. All right. Let's take our, our next break. And then on the other side, Devin, I want to know who your favorite other guy is in the safety class. There's a few to get through and just in terms of like the fit with Macuba. We'll pound through a few.

There's one guy who I really like and then one late round guy who I am disappointed in how much I like. Find out who that is. If you love the NFL draft, then this is your edge. The diehard NFL draft guide is built and based off of thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl, Combine, Talking. to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best going to fit and project in

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Together, let's drive. All right, back in the PHA Y Eagles podcast, sticking with safeties here because we know the Eagles need. And before we get into this, E.J., remind everybody what Howie Roseman said a couple days ago when he was asked about this position. Yeah, they've been pretty consistent talking about the safety position since that first wave of free agency that they are incomplete at that position.

There's a lot of time before they have to play a game and that they will continue to add to it. So to me, that doesn't sense. sound like a day three pick. That sounds like something that they'll prioritize. And maybe that isn't in the draft. Maybe they trade for a veteran. Maybe, you know, maybe they scour the free agency market. But to me, it sounds like they want to add at least another, another player to compete for that starting spot opposite Drew McCuba with Michael Carter and Marketups. All right. Devin, who is your, who is your safety for? After these top three guys, who do you

like the most? Yeah, safety for Trane Stukes from Arizona. He could be the next one on list for me. He played a lot of nickel at Arizona and is a guy to me that I think has a skill set to play safety at the NFL level. But yeah, I really like the player, the route-bearing ability, the ball skills that he has to get four interceptions in 2025. His ability to tackle in space, tackle in the run game, fill in the run game.

a guy that's going to be a bit of a older prospect, as his card says. But, you know, him running at that 4-3 at the 40, I don't know if he always played at that speed, you know, on this tape. But I do think he has the recovery ability to play in man coverage, the ball skills, the ability to play multiple roles in the secondary. The Eagles tend to seem like they have interested in the grounds for a pre-draft visit as well. So he checks a lot of the boxes in terms of, you know, versatility-wise, what he's able to do ball skill-wise, you know, his tackling ability, which is one of the strengths of his game. And just the way that, you know, as E.J. likes to say,

it looks like a superhero out there. Yeah, I like trading Stukes for that reason. I like that he's a trade-se player. The fact that he's going to be 25 as a rookie is a real thing. I don't think you're going to be out on him for that reason. I think that the compounding nature of he's going to be making a position switch as well and you might not get his best football right away. It's funny.

We got you there are three Arizona safeties who are all going to be drafted in the first like five rounds or so. I mean, for me, I still like him as a player, but I do think that those concerns are real. I like the idea of like a guy who he kind of does give you like Cooper to Gene vibes a little bit in that he can play outside, he can play nickel, he can play safety. I think he probably is best utilized as a safety, but yeah, I think that there are reasons why he will be there on day two if you draft him on day two.

Yeah, I... Probably late day two. It is philosophically tough for me to get fully behind a 25-year-old making a position switch, but he certainly has the tools, you know, as you said, he's got that blazing 40 and he has those good mirror skills.

I'm not, I don't dislike the player, but the value prop of it for me is, is a little bit tough. Yeah. Yeah, especially for a team that has struggled to identify safeties and has like started runs on safeties and maybe not gotten that right. It depends on when you're getting them for me.

Do you have a next favorite safety after those top three guys? I want to ask Devin about Jalen Kilgore. Oh, okay. I find him interesting. I need to know more. I need to know more. Now, the people need to know, this is once again, you spitting in France face.

because he doesn't like Jalen Kilgore as his safety 15, despite the fact that he is a consensus top four round prospects. Some people have him quite a bit higher. I believe Dane has him sixth or something like that. Yeah, consensus has him. He has him eighth. This is a six foot and a half, 210 pounds. He's going to be 21 as a rookie.

He also has that safety nickel flex spent a lot of time inside. but I think it's funny that that EJ is you know Fran's not here so he's going to go ahead and gas up I told you I told you I was going to I didn't gas him up I want to hear more and I told you I'm like to rely on the consensus big board and I want to hear what Devin thinks about Jalen Kilgore yeah I think he is my safety tin I believe he's a little bit down the board

I think I'll probably get a little bit closer to view wise of where Fran has him but I think he has exceptional ball production over the last couple years. He's an active run defender. I think his best snaps as a nickel come in underneath coverage. You know, there's a couple of clips going around of him making a pass breakup. I think it's Alabama down the scene, which gets you excited. But I find, you know, when he does, is playing kind of in that trail coverage.

He gets behind receivers quite a bit in man coverage. So I do worry about that a little bit because all of his best plays in 2025. to be came more near the line of scrimmage, more near, you know, the middle of the field and not so much down the field. So I kind of wonder, all right, you know, he's a guy that played mostly nickel West South Carolina. You know, we obviously had that conversation with Nick in Minowry last year. But I think he doesn't quite have the same athleticism that in Minowary had. And I worry a little bit about the recovery speed, but I think if you're looking for him to be more of that, you know, nickel, box safety type of player, I think he'll make a lot of sense.

as like a late round three early round four player, but I would do worry a little bit about the athletic profile and You know how much in that stick in the league If he were to play more of a deeper safety role All right, I'll give you my safety for and let me just say that Jalen Kilgore was a pre-draft visit guy for the Eagles as well That's important a good note My safety four? It's the same as France I really like AJ Halsey from LSU. Okay, who is a four-year senior, a four-year starter across three different programs, played as a true freshman at New

Mexico, then two years at Houston, and then the final year at LSU. He's a little bit light, 5-11 and 5-8s, 2-15, a lot of ball production, 10 career interceptions. He, his instincts to me seem to pop. I love the play personality. It's a little bit like two shoulder heavy in his tackling style sometimes where he's just trying to drop a shoulder and he doesn't fully wrap up. that is something that I feel like he could work on. But in terms of a value prop, I would much rather have him at the back end of round two than either of those other guys at 23.

What do you think, Kevin? Yeah, I like him a lot. I actually profiled him in the article that went out earlier today because he feels like a guy that can make a lot of sense for the Eagles. What he's able to do with Melton Field, get his fans on football. You just consistently break down on the football over in the middle of the field, like those instincts to click and close and the ability to be disruptive, specifically over the middle of the field. What he's able to do, you know, on the boundary and running the alley and tackling running backs in space,

you know, he puts a lot of big hits on tape, you know, and he talked a little bit about the tackling technique. I do think that needs to be cleaned up a little bit. But in terms of his broad recognition skills, his ability to fly downhill, the ball skills, you know, all those things that they make. a lot of sense for the Eagles as a second or third round pick. You know, so I like him, you know, at 68. I think that would be kind of the sweet spot for him. I have more than that third round range. But I like him a lot.

I think he's a guy that can come in and immediately push for star snaps. I didn't dislike him as a player. He's not like the type of guy that I gravitate toward because he's kind of, then this is when you said value prop, I'm like, I mean, like you're hoping that he's like a solid, like competent, cromulent, one of your favorite words, starting safety. I don't see like a ceiling with this guy. I think there's some ceiling. I mean, Kevin Byrd was his comp.

Depends on what version of the diehard dress guy. Yeah, it's, sorry, I should say it's France comp for A.J. Hallsie. I guess it's like, depends on which version of Kevin Byard we're talking about here. Yeah, basically, as a several time all pro. Yeah, to me, I don't, I view him more as like a, he is like, if you're just, trying to replace street blank and chip this is who you're going with it was just the value proposition that threw me a little bit i'm like i don't know if like it's a this isn't like a high ceiling like you know like high variance play you're taking on set on day too it's it's it's more just like

yeah i think i i think you start i disagree i actually think that every safety is very high variance like that's fair yeah i think you could get it but see that's why and you can also get a complete busting around one that's why i struggle with the position is because i look at i'm always like well give me the guy with the crazy physical trait because then maybe at least you're going to get, you know, like an all pro level player, that just doesn't necessarily apply to something. I don't think the history of elite safeties is like physical profile. Yeah.

I think that's fair. That's, that's my opinion. Chimes in to say Kevin Byard three time. Yeah. Like, what are we talking? I said it depends on which version you get in Kevin Byard. Well, yeah. His comp wasn't Eagles Kevin Byard.

All right, Kevin here. I'm going to throw, I'm going to throw like four names at you. And I want you to tell me who you think. would be the best fit for the Eagles, given everything you know about them. So let's go Franz Safety 6. Jackie Wheatley from Penn State, who was much more of sort of a classic strong safety type,

you know, a 4-6-something 40, but has some downhill thump to him. Bud Clark from TCU, who was Franz Safety 8. I'm going to go Genesis Smith from Arizona, who is a very good athlete, but is much lower on Fran's ranking than consensus. Of course,

He seems like an EJ guy. No, no, no, no. I'm wondering who you're fourth. And then my last one's going to be Kamari Ramsey from USC, who is Franz Safety 10. He spent a little time in the nickel this year, but had more time at safety the year before. Which of those four guys stands out to you as a potential eagle? Um, I mean, I think as a potential eagle, I probably like Kamari Ramsey a little better. I have Zach Ewee lately ranked higher.

but I do think Ramsey, the multi-skill set, play nickel this year out of kind of necessity because a lot of injuries in the USC secondary. But his point 24 tape as a true safety makes me believe that he can be a starter level player at the NFL level. So I think Ramsey, to me, I like a little bit better than Wheatley. So I probably rank it specifically for the Eagles. Ramsey, Wheatley, you said Genesis Smith and Buck Clark. I would probably do Ramsey, Wheatley, Buck Clark, and then Smith,

General Smith. I worry about Smith specifically because the big tackling aspect of this game, you know, he misses a lot of tackles, takes a lot of poor angles in a run game. That's not really a position that you can afford to be able to do that at a high rate and stay on the field. You know, we just went through the Sidney Brown experience. A player that had great athletic profile, you know, downhill thumper, but it's way too many tackles, you know, especially in a run game and run fits that made him a guy that couldn't stay on the field. I was going to throw Michael Taff in there for Texas.

I like Michael Taff. I think he might be more of a like a career special teamer than a high ceiling like Kevin Byard type. Just under six foot 190 sub-thirty. 30-inch arms. So he's red flagged on a couple of those things, which is probably why you would think more of a late-round guy and a special teamer. But I think there's some stuff to like about Michael Taff. What about you? Yeah, Taff is solid. I think he's a day three solid player, probably a backup level player, in my opinion. I'm not sure if I see starter trades with him, but he's solid. You know, I think he can come in, fill out a room,

I think you're looking more of a special teams player. But yeah, I'm more in that. I think he's like in the 120s, 1 30s on my big board. So I'm not like super eye on him, but I do think he has some redeeming qualities to be, you know, a strong backup, you know, in the NFL. All right. Before we go to break, I got to tell you about my late round guy that I like. Okay. This is not what you would expect from me. Although it is kind of my type.

Cole Wisniewski from. Oh, my God. I know. I know. No, well, I like it too, but I kind of want to hear why you like him as well. I know. So Cole Wisniewski, one year at Texas Tech after playing for a long time at North Dakota State. This is a six-year senior who's going to be 24 as a rookie, missed all of 2024 with a foot injury.

But I watched him. And man, like, that is a guy who is comfortable in the box, has great instincts, like takes on blocks, like, in a way that Block Destruction University would appreciate and wraps up really well. I really liked Cole Wisniewski. Fran likes him quite a bit too. What about you, Demi? Yeah, funny because me and Fran watched him at the frying bowl.

Oh, nice. Yeah, so it was, he's a guy to me. I was like, I couldn't believe a lot of people aren't talking about him because he watched the Texas Tech defense, and he's flying around and he's making plays. You know, we, you know, Enforcer coming downhill, has some nice range. You look into the profile. He's a former quarterback that went to linebacker, then went to safety.

So he's such an interesting player. A big combine snub. Can't believe he didn't go to the combine. But yeah, I like him a lot as the guy that if you're looking for a bigger box safety development type, a guy that can be an intriguing player, I like him a lot in an on-day dream. And I think he's going to go a lot higher than where the consensus has. Do you have any other late, late round crushes? At safety, let me see.

I'm just going through real quick to see if there's one specifically. Well, you look, I will vamp here by just apologizing to the audience because I had the metrics for Emil McNeil Warren and Dylan Thieneman just swapped. Just a data entry error on my part, which I got to apologize for. Thineman is the one who ran the 435. McNeil Warren is the one who ran the 452. Bad job by me. All right, I'm back.

So VJ. Payne, I like him quite a bit. It's kind of similar to Kansas State. Skillset-wise. Kansas State's AP and BJ Payne. You know, he's a bigger player, really has some pop behind his pads. Coming downhill is where his best plays happen. He has a lot of flashed his game. you know I think the tackling needs to be cleaned up a little bit you know there's some some coverage angles that you like to improve as well but in terms of like height with size you're looking for a bigger safety you know Vijay Pay is another guy and kind of that oak that brings some physicality to his game as well I got a soft spot for those jerseys I don't know what it is

the Kansas state jerseys me too I love those jerseys I feel the same way yeah elite jersey I totally agree with that now we have a super chat quickly before we go to break so debbie used to work with EJ and did guys with Fran. His hashtag cohab with the show is elite. I completely agree. I've been very fortunate to work at some great places with some great people, including Devin and Frank. Although Fran's giving me some flack in the chat.

Which you deserve. Which explains the order that I just went in there. Okay. All right, let's take a quick break on the other side. We'll talk about linebackers. Eagles are not going to use a top two or three round pick likely on linebacker, but I think it is a possibility that they will add a guy on day three.

Try to find out who that might be and tell you about a few other things that are exciting going on here at PHLY. It's April. You know what that means? It is draft month. But you know what else it means? It is Financial Literacy Month. Yes, that's right.

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the brand new merch that's going on for this Flyers Playoff Run. I like that. Buy the ticket. Take the ride. You got that perfect orange. I'm about to say, I think you go orange way, right? I mean, go either way you want, but I think I would go orange. Yeah, I would want to go orange as well. I don't have a lot of orange shirts in my bag. I used to. There's a couple, but yeah, that's a good one to have there. I like a burnt orange. I don't have as much Texas gear.

Yeah, you're a big Texas guy. My wife is stolen a lot of that stuff. There's also a great diehard deal going on to celebrate what's going on with the flyers and the Sixers, which is like a better deal than we normally have, and it's cheaper than the cost of an actual shirt. It's a great time to check that out. We've also got the draft show coming up next Thursday. at the Chickies and Peets in Marlton. Man.

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All right, let's talk linebackers. Let's talk linebackers, Devin. Before we get to you, not to make you just sit there and wait as E.J. talks, but E.J. Given Jehad Campbell, Zach Bond, Jeremiah Trado Jr., Smile, Mal Mondin. Who Jimmy Kempski once said was better than Jahat Kamala. How do you think the Eagles feel about that group? Do you think they will be pressed to take a guy on day three? What's your sort of state of the position there?

especially given John Campbell's injury. Yeah, I wouldn't suspect that they need to address it in the draft. It wouldn't shock me if they drafted somebody who had special teams value as all those guys kind of move one step up the rung as Nicoby Dean has, you know, with Nicobi Dean out of the picture at that spot. But for me, I don't think they have to force it. And it wouldn't shock me if they add a couple of undrafted guys and then add a veteran, actually, between now and training camp to kind of fill out that room.

That's sort of how I feel about it too. Yeah. is, you know, if a guy happens to be at the top of the board in round six, great. If not, I think like a couple priority undrafted guys. There will be veterans on the market at the spot. That seems like the way that they would approach it here. But we got to know who's going to be there. So, Devin, let's not even bother with Sunny Stiles and C.J. Allen and Jacob Rodriguez,

although I guess I am a little bit curious, like, Sunny Stiles are Caleb Downs. Who would you rather have on your team? I mean, I have Sunny Stiles as my top rated player in this class. Really? Wow. Yeah. Yeah, Caleb Downs is three. So, I mean, I think going based on my ranking, it's probably Sunny Stiles.

Okay. Man, number one in the class. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I like him that much. Good for you. Wait, then who's number two?

Number two is... Bud Clark. Germil my love. Jeremiah love. Okay. All right. I respect that. I respect that.

So beyond those top three guys, is there anybody who you think sort of screams eagles to you? Or any just sort of favorite day three type prospects at linebacker? You know, as I was going through the process, I was trying to figure out guys that I think the profile with interest the Eagles, you know, and where they, you know, maybe not a guy that they expect to start, but maybe a guy that can develop and figure out what do they have in him. And I landed on Harold Perkins from LSU.

To me, that is a very eaglesy pick. Yeah, he's six foot to 23, you know, at the Combine. He's down at the Shrine Bowl. He's a guy to me, I just can't figure out where exactly to put him at the NFL level because he's small to really be a linebacker. He's not really big enough to be an edge rusher. You know, is he fast enough to be a nickel? So he's kind of an interesting player.

But the production was there. You know, I think he had like 17 sacks over the course of his college career. I had a breakout freshman season. You know, slowed down and hampered by injury in 2024. It came back in 2025. Played more of kind of like an overhang role. So somewhere in between like a linebacker and nickel. But he's a player that he's productive no matter where he's put.

You know, he played middle linebacker. He played edge rusher. He plays some nickel at LSU. You have ball production even this year. He had three interceptions. Had some sacks. I mean, he's a guy that finds a way to be productive. Has a profile that the Eagles typically go after.

And a guy to me that you put in in your linebacker room and see what you can do with them. And get real interesting. You know, I think he has a blitzing ability. You can be guys one-on-one. You know, we can come off the edge, what's up the middle, has some short area, some coverage ability. So he's an interesting guy to be that, you know,

what do you do with them is a big question. I think you need to define this position early on. But I love whatever he's doing, going toward the line of scrimmage and coming down hill. There are three, don't look, three former Eagles linebackers that, has compared Harold Perkins, Jr. too, in the draft guide. Okay.

Do you want to guess? Yeah. All right, Devin, you can get it on this too. Nate Gary? No, Nate Gary is not one of them. Okay. Is Nicobe on like the huge upside? No, not Nacobie.

Okay. Alex Singleton. No. You're not going to get one of them because you won't think of them as a former eagle. A good hint, though. Okay, okay. So did they start with the Eagles or did they just play it with the Eagles? No, no, I bet now that you said that one of them is,

is, what's his name? The UCLA guy who went to go plumbing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Miles Jack is one of the players compared to Harold Perkins Jr. Okay, I could see that. One of them, neither of them, well, no, one of them started their career with the Eagles and is out of the NFL.

The other one is currently on the Eagles, which is a big hand. Okay. Yeah. Smile Mondin? No. I try a junior? No.

Zach Bonn is one of the players that Fran has compared to Harold Parker Jr. Spicy, Fran. I think, you know, somebody who, who didn't have a home necessarily when they got into the NFL. Okay. And then Kieran Johnson's the other one.

Oh, my guy. Yeah. That's actually the one that Fran Settled on is Kiron Johnson. Okay. It's very funny to be between Kiron Johnson and Zach Bond. I mean, I think you want me to read his context

on the Bonn one. I think I probably owe that to him. Bonn was a day two picked by the Saints out of Wisconsin as a developmental edge rusher who, like Perkins, was undersized, but had traits to develop. Bonn ran a 4-6-5 with a seven-second three comb, So Perkins would likely blow those test scores out of the water.

Can Perkins develop mentally at this position? So I think that's a fair. He explained his work. You know, he showed his work on that one. Yeah. A couple. Fran is in the, the bat signal, the Fran signal has gone out, yelling in all caps.

Upside case. No, this is my payback for the Kevin Byard com. Yeah, you're right. A couple of the names I'll throw out you, who just are a little bit intriguing to me from an Eagle standpoint. One of them is Justin Jefferson. The Eagles can make things right and finally get Justin Jefferson in the building. This is the linebacker from Alabama, who Fran is quite a bit higher on than consensus.

One year as a full-time starter after coming in as a Juko guy, had tested very well, even though he's only 6 foot, 2, 23, had a great three-cone time. Do you have any thoughts on Justin Jefferson as a potential, you know, I think round 5, round 6 kind of guy? I didn't have a ton of thoughts because I hadn't even got a chance to watch him yet. Oh, you're a rigor guy. He made, Deonté Lawson. So I watched Deonté Lawson, actually his teammate, I brought him as one of the options for the Eagles.

I think with Lawson, you know, his ability to the fly downhill, his eyes and coverage ability to, you know, make some plays over the middle of the field, I think, you know, has some backup level traits. and special teams work. So I like Lawson. I heard good things about Jefferson. I haven't got a chance to watch him fully, but I know that he's a player that is starting to get some buzz here.

So you get closer to the draft. Speaking of players on the Eagles roster, we're going to ask you about Josiah Trotter from Missouri. 6-2-237, transferred from West Virginia to a two-year starter. And even more than Jeremiah Jr., I feel like when I was watching Josiah Trotter, I recognized that butt looks familiar. Jeez.

That is, that is bubble. That is daddy's bubble. That's how I felt. I like Josiah Trotter. What do you think about Josiah Trotter? Yeah, he's a really good player. I think he's my linebacker four in this class. Okay.

Really, really kind of that throwback type, you know, where he's coming down. He always a thumper. He's a guy that wants. to hit you and hit you hard. He's a blitzer. He's going to run over running backs and pass pro, you know, all those different things. I think the coverage ability still has quite a bit of work to grow.

He's really only a two-year starter. He's still relatively young in his development phase. So I think he's a guy that shows some skill set in terms of dropping and finding, you know, guys over the middle of the field, but it's not consistent enough. And you can be manipulated a little bit on the field. But if you're looking for a guy that's going to come downhill, screen downhill and, you know, really be a bulls junior run defense. I think Trotter fits a lot of that along with obviously having the ties to Jeremiah,

Troy Jr. and team. That's right. All right. We got a few more guys to get to, and we're going to do it in overtime. Nailed it. Just in time. Yeah. One of my favorite names in this class, guy who sounds like he was either like a World War I war, like hero,

or just like a borderline Hall of Fame pitcher from like the 1910s. Red Murdoch. What a great name. Red Murdoch from Buffalo. Four years, senior 23 as a rookie, two and a half years as a starter.

Definitely small, but a guy who sort of embraces the violence, it seems like. And then the other guy I want to ask you about who I really enjoyed watching. And I wrote down like very discount Nicobi Dean because he is small. But boy, is he productive and just,

Just kind of a ball player. Tori and York from Texas A&M, 21 is a rookie, all kinds of accolades. But he's 5-11, 226. Tough to see the upside case of him being a starter. But boy, is he fun to watch. Yeah, York. I'll sorry, York specifically, because he's a guy to me that is your pro typical. He's going to be in the lead for a long time.

You know, a guy that just is always coming downhill, always in a right space, right place at the right time, has excellent instincts, you know, everything but the size profile makes you decide about watching him. He's physical, he's violent, he has coverage ability, he's able to drop in the coverage, and really he made that that Texas A&M defense really go and, you know, take another step to the next level because of what he was able to bring in the middle of that defense. Then Red Murdoch is a guy that plays violently. I was a little disappointed he didn't get a chance to practice down with the shrine bowl because he was nursing an injury. But yeah, I loved his downhill instincts, a guy to me that is going to fight for a back-up spot,

special teams player. I guess he and being that guy that, you know, makes a totally boom, booming hits on special teams because that's the type of violence he plays with. Anybody else that you liked? I liked Anthony Hill Jr. I keep almost calling him Anthony Hamilton, if you're familiar with the musical artist. But yeah, I like Anthony Hill Jr. I don't know if he's really an Eagles fit.

Because I think probably go earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, nobody else late? Not too many guys. I am always scared to wade into the linebacker walk. Because, again, the things I value and the things that actually matter are usually different when I get to the linebackers. You got to move beyond only caring about traits. At every position.

That's like being like you have to care. Well, I guess you are more nuanced about the age. Yeah, different positions require different predilections. It's like waves washing over stone. I spend time around great draft analysts like Devin and Fran. And, you know, I'll evolve over time. All right, Devin, for everybody else, what can they do to keep up with your work? Pay attention.

You know, let's get some Devin plugs on here. Yeah, before I do, I want to get one last shout out to prospect. that's local. Eric Gentry from USC. He went to Newman Goretty. I grew up in the Philly area. Nice. He's one of the most unique profiles in this draft class. He's 6'228 pounds. A guy that is really unique. He started his career as an edge rusher at Arizona State, Finster at USC, played middle linebacker. And a guy that, you know, I've gotten to know over the Just want to give him a shout out. I think he's a guy that probably in that seven-round UDFA range,

but I think it's a NFL team is going to look at him as a potential project and see what he, when you bring an NFL boo and see what you can do because it's going to be hard to throw over him over the field. Yeah, I feel like that is something that the Eagles might be interested in late, like those traits that they like. So yeah, let's get those, let's get those plugs. Yeah, so you can follow me on exit, Real D underscore Jackson, I'm doing a lot of positional breakdowns right now at The Inquirer.com.

Safety went up today, linebackers going up tomorrow to kind of finish it out. And they'll be on site for the draft next week. So I'll be there starting Tuesday and do the prospect of availability on Wednesday. And they're red carpet and that draft on Thursday. So we'll see if the Eagles end up picking yet another guide there that should present the NFL draft. Let me just say, Devin does an excellent job. year round, but when he's there on site for the draft, you just know that there's going to be a couple of money quotes

that come from Devon, so you got to make sure you follow him. And I'll say what he won't say, because I don't work at the Inquirer anymore, so I can speak freely about how to juice the numbers for Devon. So what you're going to do, guys, is you're going to go on Devon stories, and you're going to read them first and foremost. Let's start with the honest part.

You read the story. And then from there, scroll all the way to the bottom and leave it up on your web page as you go do your errands. Maybe you're going out for lunch. Maybe you're watching something on your phone. Just leave it up. Five, ten, 15 minutes.

Boost those engagement numbers for Devin. And then if you're going to subscribe, make sure you click on Devin's story before you subscribe. So we're going to juice Devin's numbers. We're going to give them, you know, I'm going to borrow a phrase from Sheel. We're going to give them the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast bump here.

So if you're going to do it, make sure you click on Devin's story first. I think the real sickos will be, will be familiar with Devin because his videos are all over the diehard draft. Oh, absolutely. Just, you know. Yeah, some of those film cutups are so helpful when you're trying to like get some all 22 insight on these players. So Devin does a great job.

Devin, thank you so much for taking the time. We appreciate it. It's great to talk to you. Thank you, Devin. Yeah, thanks for having me all, guys. All right. Thank you so much. And I guess we don't have any suit.

We have one super chat or we already used the super chat. We did. Yes. Okay. All right. There we go. One more position preview. One more to go.

Oh, it's a good one, too. Wide outs? Get the buckets. Get the buckets, be said. It can be good. It can be very exciting. Way to close things out.

I mean, we are, we are cramming it in. We've got wide receivers tomorrow. On Monday, BLG is going to join us in studio for the famed duck, duck juice draft. It's funny like when we are having serious. One of the oldest long running games going on.

We're having like serious conversations with each other like during the week. And Bo will be like, I mean, we got duck, duck, duck juice on Monday. Yeah. We got duck, duck juice on Monday. Tuesday, I believe Frane will be in studio with us for another of the great games. The Owl You Know draft in which the three of us each draft, the 10 players, we think the Eagles are most likely to select. And then on Wednesday, we're going to have our final seven round mock drafts and the Turkey. To the Draft Kingdom draft.

It'll be a big show. Oh my gosh. And that's all before we get to the actual main event on Thursday night. So we are locked and loaded and buckled up, ready to go. Check out all the other PHLY shows that are going on today because it is a great time to be a Philadelphia sports fan. Absolutely. All kinds of stuff going on.

Make sure you check out that diehard deal. Thank you to Lindsay. Thank you to Devin. Thank you, E.J. Thank you, Fran. In the chat. We will talk to you tomorrow at 2 o'clock. And as always, we love you.

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