PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Draft: Kenyon Sadiq, Justin Joly & TE options to JOIN Dallas Goedert | PHLY Eagles

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

It’s draft preview season, with the likes of Kenyon Sadiq, Justin Joly, Oscar Delp & more on the board to join the Eagles’ group of Dallas Goedert, Grant Calcaterra, Johnny Mundt & E.J. Jenkins as Howie Roseman looks to prove he’s a new man when it comes to drafting tight ends. EJ Smith and Bo Wulf run through Fran Duffy’s Top 10 tight ends, plus a handful more they like later in the draft. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the PHY Eagles podcast on a beautiful Monday. We're here in the Xfinity studio presented by Bet365 and Ashley. We are Bowulf and E.J. Smith. Brian Duffy, the great all-study NFL draft analyst is going to join us later in the show because we are settling in two and a half weeks away, E.J. Man. Creeping up. Sure is.

We got a lot of work to do. We begin today talking about like 20, tight ends. We are focused on the tight ends today. A position we know the Eagles would like to address at some point. Yeah. And there's some other, a lot of interesting guys here. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm, but to say, I'll be honest with you. I haven't been nervous for a show in a while, but the draft preview shows, I think, are a staple of this, this podcast. I'm fired up.

This is one of the best parts of the year. Yeah, but I feel like I got to bring it. I was up early. Doing some guys. Oh, I'm doing guys so quickly. I don't do them as quickly as you do a guy. Yeah, I'm not doing guys as very quickly. but you know I'm trying to get the necessary context do a lot of work out beforehand and then when you do a little do it yeah yeah do a little doing but yeah it was fun watching these guys are a couple of guys right up my alley so we'll talk about them

well yeah we got to narrow in a little bit on what your alley is here because we'll do that today because this is an interesting position on that front whether it's are is your guy the the traitzy guy or is your guy the dirty work you know linebacker turned tight end like jaren kaneck who's just knocking people around but can catch the ball the answer is yes you have to to be extraordinary at one of the two things. I either want you to look like a superhero or I want you to not look like a superhero,

but damn it, you are working hard out there. It has to be one of the two. Okay. Yeah. I have some big picture thoughts on just like going through these guys. Yeah. It was interesting because like a little thought that's percolating is I feel like tight end, especially in college,

and maybe a little bit in the NFL too, is like, the most situation dependent position where like most of the plays these guys are making they're schemed open sure right there's there's not a lot of go win on one go win on one go win one

I mean there is there you know they're win jump balls and stuff like that but it really made me feel like as the Eagles try to fill out this position it's like any of 10 guys could be fine as long as they're schemed the right way yeah yeah I see where you're coming from

But it's another position. It's funny reading through Fran Scouting reports. Shout out to the diehard draft guide, which is integral in our research here. When I say I'm doing them, I'm basically, I'm sitting in the proverbial cook chair watching Fran do them. And then I'm just doing some stuff on my own. Oh, my God. It's like the fourth minute of the show. Yes, Fran's work on these guys has been very important.

You came back from vacationing. You're just right at it. We missed you. We missed you. Yeah, the diehard draft guide is an incredible resource where you can watch film on these guys. You can learn everything about their backgrounds. Yes, very important.

I also found it very difficult. We will get to this as we talk about these players. I feel like I feel like Howie Roseman on this front because he can say I need to get back to, like I need to change the way I think about this. There's some guys in this group. And yet, back to my old ways. I cannot abide using like a mid-round pick on a guy

who just doesn't even come close to making an impact as a pass catcher. I see where you're coming from. It was just a blocker. I see what you come up. I know that those guys get paid, you know, eight and a half Charlie Kohler dollars in for agency. And Fran can pound his chest for Jackson Hawes as much as it can

because that's a great value. But Jackson Hawes went undrafted for a reason. Like I cannot use like a fifth round pick. Maybe. Maybe fifth round. I certainly can't use a third or fourth round pick. I think the guy who, you know, a guy like we'll get to Nate Borkature or something like that. Oh, you know, I just can't do it.

The thing with tight ends, going back to your point earlier, you have to make sure that they can reach the floor of being able to like be a functional part of an offense. It's similar to safety. You know, we talked about it with Sidney Brown where he has, you know, plus traits. He's got things that he can do. But if he can't be like on the field most of the time, then you can't use him. And I know that sounds basic, but with a lot of these guys, especially in the middle rounds,

you are trying to figure out, is this a player that can actually fit into an offense without having the entire thing built around him? Because it's not going to, that's not realistic with these mid-round picks. They need to be able to block. They need to be able to catch. They need to be at least,

they need a path to becoming a combo guy. Yeah, but I feel like you said it well because it's that bar that you need to clear. Yeah. But I feel like the bar is pretty low to just be restorable. And if you can just be, do enough of both things, the team can use you. You know, like, as long as you can play

special teams, like, you know, you can feed the third car bar, right? Right. Yeah. Whereas, like, a grand calcutera level running back, or a linebacker might just might be unrostable. Well, yeah, but the thing is, like,

the juice matters more at those positions. Like, what you can do, you know, I've like, to a nod to my predecessor here, it's like a lot of, it's like a scouting trope. Like, tell me what they can do. tell me what they can't do. At tight end, you actually do need to know what they can't do. Like, you need to know when you can put them on the field, which is going to be an interesting and an important part of this conversation that we had.

Early Moa Culpo for me, I apologize. Jackson-Hawes was drafted. He was drafted. He was drafted the fifth round. Okay. Fran's going to be really upset with you about that. He's coming up. He's going to eviscerate us about something. It's fine. Fifth round, if we're like, I mean, I can't believe you just threw a shot at Nate Borkature. Just right out the gate. I mean, I'm happy to get it. You want to start with Nate Borkutcher. No, no, he should start with Kenyan Sadiq. All right, let's get to the top tight end in this draft because I think this is an interesting discussion.

Kenyan Sadiq, let's make this our Wawa, What's Brewing on a Monday? I got my brew right here. Feeling good. Kenyan Sadiq. Now, in general, I just tell you right now, the Eagles are sticking at 23 and drafting Kenyan Sadiq. How do you feel about that?

I feel great about that for the Eagles. I do. It's something that Fran and I talked about on the Friday show, there is some varying evaluations of the tackle class and especially the offensive linemen especially the tackles that will potentially be available for the Eagles at 23 and I have we've talked a lot about this like what would the Eagles do if they had Caden Proctor and Kenyon Sadieke on the board for them at 23 and something that I've that friend I talked about that I think I've come around on is that there's a chance that you view Caden Proctor or another one of these tackle prospects that'll be

there in the latter half of the first round as guard only prospects. They might be listed as tackles as prospects, but Eagles may view them as guards only. I think that's a little bit less likely with Jeff Stoughtlin out of the building, but still there's a real potential that they would say, like, Kaden Proctor's not somebody that we'd want to stick a tackle early in his career and worry about him failing at that position, right? So if you view a tackle prospect as not a sure thing, and you can then look at somebody like Kenyon Sadie can say, like, he is like a, you know, one of the top two or three receiving targets that we'd expect to have in our offense, he's a potential difference-making player. It might not be a premium position, but you're not always going to get a

premium position that late in the draft. I have come around on that. If it's Proctor and Sadiq at 23, I think, you know, I had Proctor going in my mock draft last week with Fram. And the more I thought about it after that conversation, I think they go Sadiq in that scenario. Now, do you early still to know, but do you think he makes it to 23? Do you think? I don't. Okay. It's one of those things where, you will see him make it past the Eagles in mock drafts right now. But I feel like it's the Michael Williams scenario from last year where the consensus isn't necessarily caught up to the way the league views him.

I mean, you hear Kenyon-Sadik is like a fringe top-10 prospects from some people, you know, like going in the early teens. I would be surprised if he made it all the way to 23. He is friends. Yeah, I think he's friends. 13th overall. Yeah, number 13 on his big board is tight end one. I don't think he's going to make it that far.

I think if he does make it that far, I think the Eagles, I think the Eagles make that pick, they run it in, and they feel great about it. And I think it comes with repercussions. We've talked a lot about the importance of trying to find Elaine Johnson successor. But to me, it's like you just found your Dallas Goddard successor. You just added one of the potential difference makers in the draft at a position that you need long-term planning at. If you are unfamiliar with Kenyon Sadiq, out of Oregon, young, left early, will be 21 years old as a rookie. 6-3-241.

Blew it up at the combine. Ran a tight-end record 439-40-yard dash, 43-5-inch vertical jump, which was like above and beyond everybody except for Eli Stowers who we will get to. Great bra jump as well. This is a dynamic athlete. No doubt about it.

The production leaves a little bit to be desired for a guy who's going to be a top 20-25 pick. this year with Oregon after being a backup last year and a productive backup with 300 yards receiving. This year, 51 catches for 560 yards. Not bad.

11.2 yards per carry. Now, there yards per catch. I've got the sample of all the elite tight ends for the past 10 plus years. That yards per carry is lower than the lowest. Yards per catch. I keep saying that.

Sam Laporta has the lowest, which is 11.7. There are actually a lot of guys in this draft class who are below that mark. I'm a little bit worried a little bit worried about the lack of production for a guy who is this much

more explosive than everybody else on the field and I was looking at all of the 12 tight downs who have been drafted in the first round over the past 10 years Yeah it's interesting

Evan Engram T.J Hawkinson, David M. Jokku Kyle Pitts, Tyler Eifert Brock Bowers those are the guys of the 12 who have been to the Pro Bowl add Tyler Warren on that list I think he'll go there eventually Yeah all of those guys

The basically never had a Their best season as a pro Was 700 yards receiving at least The guys who didn't do that Noah Fant Aiden Hearst OJ Howard Colson Loven to I think is good

Those guys are all are all 600 or below Now Dalton Kincaid is the one outlier He had a 900 yard season Has been just okay I like Kenyan I'm a little bit like the OJ Howard. Yeah, that's fair. It kind of worries me a little bit.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, he had a very good quarterback. It's an explosive offense. Yeah. Why wasn't he a little bit more productive? I don't know. I think it's a fair, like, because, you know, usually what I've heard friends say about the tight ends is that you don't have to be productive in college to be productive in the league. I think tight end is a position that you can be like, you can oversimplify it.

Actually, you are, it's, you can oversimplify it. Like, it's safe to. which is like get a great athlete and see if they hit their upside. That list would make you a little bit worried. But in this year's draft, and especially with, you know, the landscape of the first round when you probably don't have 32 guys with first round grades,

I still think he's worth taking the bet because he is just like a freakish athlete at the position. I think like if you want to figure out a way to get one of the top 10 and tight ends in the NFL, you have to be drafting an athlete like that, even if they weren't as productive. Now, we should also say, Fran will tell us that

Kenyan Sadiq probably undervalued as a blocker. Yeah, he's got some good clips blocking. Yeah. And he's got like the, like the thing, one of my weaknesses when I watch these guys is like, do you like finish blocks with like an edge? Like are you nasty?

Okay. Like through the whistle. I love seeing that and he's got some of that too. Like where he wants to bury somebody. Okay. Yeah. I do think from a theoretical perspective, this is something that Howie Roseman would be interested in.

You're just talking like, you know, he loves the idea of a freak athlete. And from a, how do we take this offense forward, whether A.J. Brown is going to be here or not to add a player like this in the passing game without having to pay for a wide receiver or something like that, it does make sense. Oh, absolutely. So I solved a question. I think it is unlikely that he makes it.

But I saw the question on the graphic that we did shout out to Lindsay. Would you trade up for Ken Yant City? I would be wary of doing that, I think. I mean, more than like a two or three pick move up. It depends on, I mean, obviously it depends on who else is there. If the board falls in a way where like the tackles you feel great about are off the board and like, you know, Keldrick Falk has been really volatile in the draft process. Like if he's not around, I might consider trading up for Kenyanesey on.

A small trade up. It depends on the board. I think my general operating philosophy in the first round would be that if I'm trading up, it better be for a premium position. Yeah, that's fair. And I'm okay with sitting and taking a premium player at a non-premium position if that's clearly the best player on the board, but I don't want to spend extra resources on it. I think that's fair.

I'm just sorry, I was, I'm looking at the draft order here. Yeah. Like would you trade up to 18 with Minnesota? Probably not. Yeah. probably cost you at least a three, right? Yes, at least. I might do that for Kenan-Sadik.

All right, let's close the book on What's a Brewing, presented by Wawa, Kenyan-Sadik, off the board. That's a name you can have fun with. Oh, he's a fun player. You know, whenever there are players like him who are in that like 6-4, 240 range, and just crazy athlete, I always think, like, what position would you actually be best playing?

You know, like, let's for a second, assume that he could, like, maybe Titan's not his best position. Yeah. Could he be like, like, a Von Miller edge rusher? Or, like, could he play, like, running back and be like Derek Henry? You know? That doesn't, you don't get, that doesn't get you excited? No, I think it's probably the best position for him.

I don't know. I always think that Derek Henry should be an edge rusher. Like, why? I don't know. It's like 6-4 or 240 pounds, and he's crazy athletic. He's not like, he's not bendy, though, I guess. No. So maybe he wouldn't be a good edge.

I don't know. I think Sadiq would be better. Rush or then Derek Henry? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's fair. Okay. Would he be a running back? It's too big to be a running back.

Well, like 30 years ago, would he have been a running back? 30 years ago, he would be murdering people. Maybe 50. Like on the field, like running for people and they die. I thought you meant literally murdering people. Like, what? Did I miss something about the character? Check there.

All right. Let's take a break. We got a lot to get to. And this is where consensus diverges. We're going to go through Fran's top 10, which is a little bit different. than the consensus top 10, starting with Justin Joe Lee coming up next. Oscar Delp and the aforementioned Nate Borkature. If you love the NFL draft, then this is your edge.

The diehard NFL draft guide is built and based off of thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, shrine bowl, senior bowl, combine, talking to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best going to fit and project in the NFL. We're talking hundreds of players in this class. There is no comparison. This is the best draft guide for Eagles fans. You get player comps. You get all the data.

And you get Fran's insight. And here's the bottom line. There is nobody in the entire world who is better suited to be an NFL draft expert and an Eagles expert and my good friend, Fran Duff. All right. So what are you going to find in the guide? Well, you're going to find player comps. You're going to find strengths, weaknesses, physical tools, analytics, highlights, analysis from all across the space, everything you need to try and determine.

Who are the best players for your team? You get access to the guide if you're a diehard. And you'll also get access to a couple of individual breakdowns I'm doing specifically for your team. All right, look, if you want surface level breakdowns, you can get them anywhere. But if you want independent thought, if you want thorough breakdowns on all of these prospects, become a diehard, get the guide. Or you can get access to the 2026 guide for just $26. Let's win draft season. I was watching a Lamar Jackson documentary the other day.

and they had this really interesting scene from the Ravens draft room that year. And Ozzy Newsom's addressing the group and he says, all right, guys, we're going to take Lamar unless anybody else has anything to say. And this guy in the corner raises his hand and he goes, Hey, I think we should draft the old tight end

from South Carolina instead. Let's get Hayden Hurst. For some reason, Ozzie Newsom said, you know what, Ray? I think you're right. And they did it. We ended up working out all right, but that's not the shady Ray we're talking about.

No, no, no, no. We're talking about Shady Ray is the best polarized sunglasses in the game and the best customer service. Because if you lose or break your sunglasses, even on day one, Shady Ways, Shady Rays, will send you a brand new pair, no guilt trip, just replacements. So now you can actually wear your sunglasses without fear on hikes or in the draft room when you're trying to look cool. Go to ShadyRase.com and use code P. H.L.Y.S.R for 40% off two plus pairs of sunglasses. All right. We're back on the P.HL.Y. Eagles podcast talking tight ends. EJ, we go to France number two tight end.

Now we look at the consensus, Big Borence, he's six or seven. Yeah. We're going to be doing that a lot today. Are we? There's a couple guys who are six, seven. A couple guys are six seven. Justin Jolie, two years at Yukon, then transfers to NC State.

He goes six four, 241. Pretty productive. Like a steady level of productivity across those schools last year, 661 yards, receiving about 11.9, 12 yards per catch. You watch a little Justin Jolie. What do you think about it, Justin Jolie?

I like him a lot. I see why Fran is higher on him than consensus. I agree. Yeah, I was going to say he's got good hands in traffic. He's a good route runner. Just like a good athlete. And I think as we talk through some of these guys, he is probably at least the one that you feel the best about,

even though he's not currently like a good combo tight end, he's not a two-way tight end who is going to make a difference in the run game, you at least like could see the path toward him being that. You could at least see him developing into that because he's got the bigger frame and he's a good athlete. He is not my favorite tight end in this class because of two reasons. He doesn't have a ton of yards after catch, and he doesn't look like a superhero.

And I do think sometimes with tight ends, again, you want to find the tallest, biggest, fastest, strongest guy and take a bet on it. So if you were, if you told me the Eagles drafted him, I would understand why it would be more of a, he's probably more of like a receiving tight end than I would expect them to take on day two or day three of the draft. But I do like him. And again, I can see why Fran is higher on them and can say. And Fran thinks there's some upside with him as a blocker. Sure.

Yeah. As you said, he's a touch undersized, but not enough to matter. On the younger side, you played four years, but it's still going to be 22. Yeah. As a rookie. all of the things that I look at in terms of production and the testing measurements, there are only two guys and friends top 20 who have no red flags at all. Justin Jolie is one of them.

It'll be a little tease for you to wait around for the other one. I like Justin Jolie. And if you're telling me, end of round three, sure, middle of round four, I think that's, I'd be very happy with that pick. I think you, so, and you can correct me, if I'm wrong here, I think you're looking at like the floor of a player like that. Like he's a solid titan. It's hard to imagine him not being like a productive member of a tight end room and maybe even

a one in time. I probably am thinking more about like the ceiling with him compared to some other guy. No, he didn't test athletically. I would love to. I know. It really bothers me. Yeah. I mean, I also,

I totally get it. Yeah. Because if you're going to have anything that's not great, you shouldn't test. I get it. But then it's like such a bummer. But is a bummer. I would love to, I would love to have to have the. information on him. He looks like

smooth athlete. You know, he's comfortable in space. You know, did get a lot of balls thrown his way. It was a major part of that offense. I like Justin Jolie. Yeah, I like him too. So far, maybe we'll narrow this down like your three

favorite values based on because if you check out France draft guide, you have not only his grades and his rankings, but also the projections. And he's got him as like a third roundish projection. I would rather have Justin Jolie in the third round than Kenyan Sadiq in the first round. Yeah, I disagree with you.

I understand where you're coming from from a value standpoint. I mean, he's friends tied into. You get him two rounds later, but I still think if you're setting out, going into this draft, and they might not be going into this draft trying to find an impact player, I would still rather have Keny on Sadeek in the first round.

Okay. I think we're just going at it from different ways, which I, it's good for the exercise. I would rather have Justin Jolie and Lane Johnson's replacement. that guy may not be there. It's all theoretical. I get it.

Kenyon, Sadiq, and an edge rusher in the third round, something like that. All right. Franz Tide End 3, who was the consensus number four tight end, it's a fella named Oscar Delp from Georgia.

Four years of Georgia, was Brock Bowers backup before going there. And it's like a kind of an underwhelming production. Yeah. It was not a major part of that offense.

but it was a narrow band all three years, the last three years, between 20 and 24 catches and between 248 and 284 yards. So three years are very steady production. And for that to stay the same after Brock Bowers leaves is really, to me, disappointing. It's like you would have expected and hoped that he had a leap. Now, for someone who, like, is traveling a lot on Saturdays and doesn't get to watch a lot of college football, I do think sometimes I bring a different perspective,

because I'm looking at these guys as like the finished products in terms of prospect profiles. I think there was a lot of buzz for Oscar Delp, like this time a year ago. You know, there was a lot of like, oh man, this guy's really hit, hit the ground running and become like, you know, the next great tight end prospect. When I watched him, I didn't see it at all. Interesting. I kind of liked him.

I mean, he's like fun as like a, you know, Fran Compton to a souped up Brent Selleck. I think that's perfect. Yeah. Like, I like his play personality. Like, I just. Six five, two 45. He's got good, like, physical traits, like, on paper. When you watch him, he doesn't, like, just.

jump out. He's not like a crazy athlete or anything like that. I mean, he's like quick off the ball. Happy to do that, you know, happy to do the dirty work. Sure, but I don't know. When you're going to draft this guy, there's a lot of dirty work guys that you could get later in the draft. He wasn't my favorite guy. I think he has more real receiving upside than some of those other guys who are like real blocking only guys. Yeah. To me, I mean, this is like a very silly thing to say. G. he just looks like a pro. There's some guys like that in here. I liked Oscar Delp.

Okay. And I even, even three or four, I would be, I would be, I would be happy with that. Now, it isn't interesting how is this going to play out on draft weekend? Because there is a huge gulf in my mind. And I think for most people between Sadiq and everybody else. Yeah. And we'll get to stowers. Stowers.

Stowers? Stowers. I thought you were like giving me like a nasty look because I like. I'm trying to say. It's like stowers like towers. Yes. I was wrong. Oskidel is a good athlete. Sorry, I had in my notes. Pretty average size, but elite speed slash quickness. But he didn't test at the compound either.

What is this pro day that I'm looking at here? He had a good short shuttle. That's the only thing he did. He ran four or five at the pro day. So decent speed. Yeah. But it doesn't like, I don't know when you watched, did it show up? Also, I mean, let's be real here. You want to talk about a guy like doing a dirty work here.

You want to add somebody who's comfortable in the mess as a tight end. What kind of better name for a tight end? An Oscar. The grouch? Yeah. Lips on a trash can. Okay. I see where you're coming from.

But, and honestly, his play personality does fit that. Like, he's got that nasty to him, which I like. I just, I don't know. I didn't see like a, again, if you're telling me like, this is your tight end too. Like, this is a guy who's going to fill out the room. Yeah. Yeah. I like that in like the third of the fourth round.

He's not. There are guys who I think have a higher upside than him. I think that's fair. Yeah. But I think this is a guy who. I think you can sort of guarantee he's going to be your tight end two. And he'll be fine. I agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's why I said like souped up Brent Selik is like a perfect comp. Like a little bit more athletic version of Brent Selick. Okay. So I'm okay with that. If you got him in the fourth round, I would really like that pick. Okay. Would you rather have him in the fourth or Sadiq in the first?

So who you already took over, Jolie? I might rather have Delp in the fourth. Interesting. And then you're basically saying like next year, you're either going to sign somebody or draft somebody. Yeah. Okay. He's a good guy to like, you can put him in your room this year and you hope he turns into a one and if he doesn't, he's not getting in the way of somebody else.

Exactly. You don't have to build around. And he'll be here. Yeah. Still. All right. Franz Tide end four is the consensus 11. And this is Nate Borkature from Texas A&M after four years.

We are going to disagree on that. Yeah. And far be it from me to disagree with Fran about it. anything. But a man has got to have a code. And Nate Borkature is going to be 25 as a rookie. His best season in eight years in college, his best season as a receiver was this last year at Texas A&M when he had 19 catches for 198 yards.

I mean, no thank you. He's off my board. He's off your board. I mean, the idea that he's, he is a. blocking beast. He better be, he's beating up children. Like, what are we doing? I like Nate Borkature.

I like what he shows as a blocker. I like the physicality he plays with in general. I think he is, like he didn't test, disappointingly, but his athleticism really jumped out. Yeah, because he can't read anymore. He can't read anymore. His vision is gone. No, you should say it's like his knee was acting up that day.

Cause the rain was raining or something. Yeah. You know, I got this hip. No, he, I, the age is a legitimate concern. I mean, he played college football for 15 years and finished with 417 yards receiving. Yeah, but like, so it's like, I know it's like, you know, besides that, how is the play, Miss Lincoln? But it's like, if you just ignore the age for a minute here and just look at him as a prospect, he is a good prospect. I see.

Well, I don't agree with that. I see why Fran has him as high as he does. Why is he a good prospect? When you watch him, you see the physicality, you see the athleticism. And yes. Because he's playing against. Yeah, but it's still, again, and also the pre-opting. It's like the Billy Madison scene, you know, playing dodgeball against the second graders.

Oh, Billy Madison's the one I'd want on my team. Well, yeah. I think the appeal with Borkature is that he is probably the truest, like, combo tight end, the truest two-way tight end in this class. What do you mean? There's no other way. He doesn't, he's not a receiving threat at all. I mean, but he has like the traits to be a receiving threat, and he is a very competent to blocker.

I think he has a traits to do it. Absolutely has a traits to do it. To be a receiver? I'm not going to be able to sell you on, like, spying in on a 25-year-old prospect. Like, I know that. I've watched this show long enough to know where I'm going to fall on this. But I think he's got the physical traits to be a plus in the receiving game, and he is a solid blocker.

So, therefore, if you're looking for it. He better be one of the five best blocking tight ends in football on day one, if you're going to draw this guy. Because he's, just because he's 25? Yeah. I mean, still, you can still give him time to develop. He'll be 27 and could be one of the best two-way tight ends in the league. If you're the, it would be one of the best

team and said, no way! I mean, one of the best blocking Titans in the league. If you're Howie Rosewin and Nick Siriani and you're looking for a titan that can do both, Nate Borchard is on your board, even though he's older. Well, we will hear from Fran a little bit. We'll have to talk about this more, but if I was Jeffrey Lurie and... The 25-year-old thing is real.

The second that somebody suggests calling in the car for Nate Porcature, that person is fired. Well, a good thing you're not Jeffrey Lurie. I am not going to sit here and tell you that, like, his age shouldn't be a factor, but if you just watched him, I thought it was like, okay, I watched him. I was very underweld. Yeah, because you hate him because he's an old.

But I don't, I try to trust my eyes too. I didn't see it there. I think you were just really like, you had the old color. No, because I do it separately. I do the watch and then I look at the. You knew he was old. I didn't know that he was old. Yeah.

Well, if you watched him, I thought his tape was very good. Okay. Yeah. All right, let's go one more here before we go to our next break. And that is someone who, if you want to sell me that this is, your blocking stud? I could buy it a little bit more. I like that.

That is Franz Tident 5. Will Casmeric from Ohio State. And this is interesting. We can compare both of them now if you want. We can go to it because there's two tight ends from Ohio State. Will Casmeric played three years at Ohio. He's awesome. Then transferred to Ohio State.

And he was not the main factor in the passing game. Obviously there's going to be no main factor at Tident in that passing game. We've got the receivers that they have. But in two years at Ohio State, combined for 23 catches for 250 yards. Not really doing much out there. He's a lumbering athlete.

Yeah. But he was out there a lot because he was blocking people's faces off. 6-6-261, ran a 474, big old fella. You compare him to Max Claire, who is the consensus tight end four. I love Max Claire.

I do this on the other side of the break. Tighten three consensus-wise in this draft. And he was more of a factor in the passing game. He also transferred. transferred from Purdue, 43 counts for 4 to 448 yards over the past, I guess last season. Now he's France tight end 10.

And this is like a value. Would you rather have the guy who has the receiving upside or take the built-in floor of a guy who's going to be on the field for you in Casmaric? I don't feel strongly about it either way, but you like Casmaric. Yeah, I love Casmeric. He is like as a day three pick,

an early day three pick even, he's perfect. I'd rather have him in the fifth round than Ken Yenade's week in the first round as much as he. as they are very different players. I mean, yeah, that's a little bit hyperbler. They're very different players.

Casmeric, to me, is what you sign Johnny Munt for for this offense. He is like a young, you know, draft, like, rookie deal, adjusted player in that spot. He would be an ideal tight end three, probably, but you could have him as your second tight end and let him do all the dirty work. I wrote split zone equals carnage, got that Cam Latu in him. he is like actually like a high upside like a very good version of what the eagles used camlatu for last year and should have used cam lot too for more last year um i think again he is probably if you drafted like one of these really receiver type tight ends double up and get will casmeric like

he's a perfect compliment to one some of one of these number one guys who you don't think can really do the inline stuff well this is an interesting yeah because i think there's a good case to be made if you've got if you get if you get if you end up with a bit of a surplus of picks on day three yeah I do kind of like the idea of drafting like a combo guy like a even hasmeric and a guy who's a receiver only has merrick might not be a combo guy because that's the no no I don't mean combo guy I mean I mean like two guys combined into one hopefully like you take it we'll talk about michael trig you take a michael trig yeah and a casmeric like I think that could be fun yeah um but I don't think he's going to go before the fifth round,

Casmeric. I don't think there's a lot of receiving upside there. There's not. That's what I'm going to say. You're not looking at him as like, there's not, I mean, you might look at him and be like he's serviceable if he gets the ball. Yeah.

15 times in his season, you feel fine about it. But yeah, you're putting him out there because of what he can do as a blocker. And, you know, he's not, it's kind of me talking out of both sides of my mouth in that this is not a high upside player. But to be like a player that allows you to do what you want to do

schematically. I think he's great. Now, how did you feel about Claire? Um, I really didn't get the hype on Max Claire. Okay. Do you want to do it before or after the break? Let's talk about him now. Let's let's get to him. Now, he, again, he is France tight end 10 consensus sort of four. Six, four, two 46, small hands, but otherwise no red flags. Although his yards per carry, yards per catch, I keep saying yards per carry. It's all good. Uh, we're a little bit low, 11.5. 23 years old, was productive at Purdue before transferring to Ohio State. Franz pretty down on him as a blocker. and especially dislikes the fact that he didn't really play special teams at any point in his career. I think I liked him a little bit more than Fran does, but I wasn't blown away.

This is my favorite draft like opinion that Fran had among the tight end group. I don't really understand the max clear hype. Okay. Because if you're going to be like a six four, 240 something pound tight end, you have to be either like blocking out of your shoes, kind of like Kenyon Sadiq is capable of doing. or you have to be like it's just a really really high level player as a receiving threat.

I didn't really get that when I watched him. I didn't see him as like, oh my God, this guy could be a true number one as a receiving tight end. And then on the flip side, like he was one of the guys I went and watched the All-22. Like I looked at the clips in the In France draft guide

and then I went and found All-22 so I could watch. And it was him against Miami. And like two of the first three plays I watch, he's getting destroyed off the ball as a blocker. Yeah. Like getting absolutely manhandled And it was like, you know, so Franz Com for him is Grant Calcutera.

Yeah, I see that a lot with him as a blocker. So he's the type of player where maybe he does turn into like a true viable number one tight end as a receiving threat primarily in the league. I wouldn't want to make that bet. I'd want him to go figure that out somewhere else. I think he's another one where he was really good at Purdue. I saw like he had some really cool catches when he was at Purdue. but and I think there was like buzz around him really becoming somebody like Sam LaPorteur like the next Sam Laporta I think like his season with Ohio State when you watch it in a vacuum it's like yeah this guy does not move me as a prospect okay I thought he had a little bit of burst in the open field

I thought he was like an awkward athlete like every time he got tackled it seemed like it was almost on accident you know it's like I don't know something about him just really just didn't didn't blow me away okay I like him a little bit more than you do but I'm not gonna I'm not necessarily pounding the table yeah I don't know he was one of the ones I was really like I have a couple guys around like I maybe I'm taking crazy pills here and he's one of them. All right. Are we ready to go to break or not quite yet? All right. Let's keep going. Are you able to do other graphics or no? No. Okay. We can just sort of talk. Yeah. Guys, I'll tell you a well, we'll just keep going down the board. Okay. Tight end six who is the consensus tight end 10. And I like this guy. Yeah, me too. Okay. Will the Eagles go to the Cincinnati well?

Again, Joe Royer. I like a Joe Royer. Now, it's funny because we just talked about the two guys at Ohio State. Joe Royer was originally at Ohio State, didn't see the field and transferred to Cincinnati and had sort of a breakout season a year ago. Another pretty good season this year, though. He missed a little bit of time. I really like to play personality on Joe Royer.

I like seeing maybe it's the Dallas Goddard experience, but I really like seeing guys who are breaking tackles at this level. and fighting for the arms too, doesn't he? He's like something about the way he catches the ball. It's like, oh, yeah, this guy's good, man. Another guy who I wish, man, I wish we had the athletic testing results. Yeah, bummer. He's got short arms, but big hands to kind of up for it.

He's going to be a little bit older. He's going to be 24 as a rookie, which I don't love. But I watched him, and I did like him. So I'm not, I'm not anti-all old guys necessarily. Look at you with how well. No, I probably wouldn't take him until, around four. maybe around five probably.

I didn't get any time and round more I'd feel okay about. But I liked Joe Ryar. Me too. The first thing I wrote about him is he looks like he should be awesome. Like he's one of those guys like he just kind of looks apart as a big physical athletic tight end. He's not like the most, he doesn't have like the most straight line speed. You know, watching him try to run away from guys was tough at times.

Yeah. You know what? It was like when he was running away from guys, he had a good burst. Yeah. Like an initial 10 yard would be good. Like his 10 yard would be good. But then he didn't have the long term wheels. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean. pretty productive. He wasn't as productive in 2025. I said if he were younger, he's somebody who, like, his theoretical upside, I'd be like draft this guy. He looks like one of the elite tight ends

in the league, at least physically. But, you know, a little bit older for that reason. I think, yeah, fourth round, I would feel really good about Joe Royer. I like him. Yeah, I think they're... I don't know what it was about the way he caught the ball,

but you could just tell, like he's got... he's a natural catcher of the football. I like that. Yeah, I think when you're watching a college tight end catch the ball, you kind of want them to look like the best athlete on the field.

Yeah. Or like the guy who's gonna beat everybody up. Then I think you get a little bit of that with Joe Royer. Absolutely. Yeah. Still frozen? All right. Let's see if we can go to break and continue on the other side.

Nope. We're still here, baby. All right. Let me, let me. Okay. At some point, it may just go to break. Surprise break. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with Tanner Coziel.

I don't know what's wrong with me. Okay. Did you like Tanner Coziel? Well, Tanner Coziel. is the consensus 16 tight end. He brands, tight end, seven. Three years at Ball State, and then one year at Houston,

but he's only, he's only going to be 22 as a rookie. Six and a half. 247, round of 47, which is below the threshold there, but, you know, he's a bigger player. I didn't love him. I don't know what it is about him that I like. He's like a jump ball specialist,

but like physical traits, like, just the way, like, you know, the... He's a big guy, but he goes down easy. He's like a tall, he's like a big tree, right? He's chopped down. He wasn't running through people. His yards per catch is shockingly low. I think with him.

Given the athletic. Starting something new can be terrifying. Before the show even existed, I remember thinking, what if nobody listens? What if my co-host has this weird vendetta against old draft prospects? But sometimes you've got to just take the leap and definitely help. And it definitely helps when you've got the right people. people behind you like Shopify. Shopify is the e-commerce platform

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small ice plus earn rewards all season long. Bottom line, make this the sweetest season yet with Rita's ice, custard, and happiness. Treat yourself to a scoop of happiness today. Be cool. Go to Rita's. Surprise. We're back on the P. NHL-Y Eagles podcast. We were in mid-tener-cocial discussion. Yeah, that was good. It was a good surprise ad break. Gave me a chance to really organize my thoughts on a player that I don't know why I like him more than everybody else. Oh, you do like. I like him. Oh, I thought you were saying crazy take crazy pulling. No, no, I've got crazy pills because I watched him and I'm like, yeah, I can see it with

this guy. Oh, interesting. He's a, he is a younger prospect that should theoretically have more of a runway to develop into a true, I think you could develop into a true number one tight end on a team. I do. I don't, he's six, seven. That's actually a touchdown celebration. Is it?

Yeah, which I like. He was incredibly productive at Ball State. that gives me a little bit. Sort of. It gives me like, I mean, had 94 catches. Yeah, but that's what I'm like, 9.4 yards per catch. Well, yeah, I'm sure it was a lot of like underneath. But that's, that's, that's a real red flag. It's two yards per catch lower than what should be the low bar. Yeah, I'm not saying I think this guy's going to be, you know, like George Kittle or something. But I do think as a younger prospect who was incredibly productive, lesser competition, sure, but he was 20 years old when he was doing this. Um, I, he's got, he did

His athletic testing was good in the terms of like the explosive stuff, like the burst stuff. I could see him turning into a legitimate player in the NFL. And I think he has the potential to be a combo guy too because of the length. Yeah, I think I was disappointed in the blocking. Yeah, but he's given the size. He's younger. Yeah. Fran thinks there's some, there's some developed, like worthwhile development to come up there.

And he's got the big contested catches already. I think he also goes, you know, Fran's come for him is Colby Parkinson, which I feel like is kind of perfect. Yeah. Yeah. If you drafted him in the fifth round and you said maybe not a year one. Yeah. I'm a fifth ride. I'm fine.

But second or third season, you're kind of expecting him to turn into a real player. I think his upside is there. I saw more upside when I watched him. But again, he was productive in college as well. You're right. He's not running away from people.

Yeah. But like I think his profile as a player is rounded out enough where he doesn't need to be like a yards after catch monster as well. He'd free you up to do anything else you want to do in the tight end room. You could add as many Chigoconkos as you want. I don't know if that's true. The theory of him at least free you up to do anything you want. The theory of him at least frees you up to add as many chigoconkos as you want to do.

You know, I like the upside with a player like this, especially as a younger player. All right, here's what we're going to do. We got Fran waiting. I'm going to read you some ads quickly. And then we will bring in Fran and just keep on going here. So very quickly, I'll tell you about our friends at Xfinity because they've got that five-year price guarantee going on. What if you can have reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi? And what if you could keep it at the same price for five years?

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It's April 6th. We're getting down to it. All right. This is a good time to talk to you because coming up next on your list is the person who you have the biggest disagreement with consensus on. And then after that, I want to talk to you about the guy who is reverse. You are much lower on than consensus. But this is a guy that you have way up higher on your board. This is Cody Hardy from NC State, who is your tight end eight, wasn't invited to the combine.

He's not even in like the top 25 consensus tight ends in this draft class. One year at NC State after playing at Elon, 16 total catches in his college career. Not a factor in that phase at all, but junkyard dog blocks like a team. He's so good. Have you seen it? Have you looked at some of the clips? Yeah, I liked watching it too.

Yeah, I mean, to me, like, you know, when you look at Cody Hardy, there are players like this all the time that just they go undrafted or it's a seventh round pick the co-keft right that you know becomes a viable backup tight end and to me I look at Cody Hardy as a guy that can turn into a dominant blocker and you know then by therefore like a solid number two and I feel good about that transition whereas some of the other guys I'm like oh I've got some questions here I don't know if we'll quite reach this level so yeah Cody Hardy is a fringe draftable player because of the lack of past game production and upside. But in terms of him as a blocker, he's awesome.

And so I really like his ability to translate. Watching Cody Hardy clips over the weekend, I felt like I had to put the Cam Latu photo like away. I couldn't have it just sitting there watching me. I'm just like, I'm sorry, Cam, this guy is awesome. Well, I want to ask you, AJ then, how did you feel about two of the other guys who were just, just blockers? did you watch Max Bredison I didn't watch Max Bredison Okay

He's a pure fullback basically Yeah Yeah he lined up a little bit on the other But I mean Yeah he's fun too He's at Max Bredesen is like Watching that guy is like I'm already worried about him

Trying to find a personality Whenever his football career is over Like this guy who like his whole You can just on the field His whole identity is wrapped up And this guy is like The most football guy of all the football guys.

There was a lot of fun. It was, you know, back in, I don't know what it was, like December or January, and I said on the show, I was like, yeah, there are a bunch of guys that are like better blockers right now than Cam Latu.

Bredesen was actually a guy that was front of mine when I made that statement. Like to me, like he is the archetype. I liked him a lot. Yeah, he's going to play special teams. He's not an inline guy. Like, he's going to, to me,

like, Brettison is easy for that. Yeah, I texted Fran about that exact quote from the show when I was watching Cody Hardy. I'm like, these are the players that Fran was talking about. I mentioned that. And then Jaron Kainak is the other one who is the Oklahoma linebacker turned fullback slash tight end.

He's like 80-bitty teeny tiny guy for the size. But he is, he is fun to watch. Yeah, he is honestly like that, to me like that is a Cam Latu. I actually might have even written him, his name down,

a lot to his name down as a potential comp. Only because like he is not even fully formed as a blocker yet. To me, like there are areas where he's just, he's got to improve there. But it's more like assignment and technique. focus as opposed to like toughness and honestly the strength is going to be an issue regardless um but he's going to play special teams he's going to be like an a special teams player uh so there was a lot

to like from jaron kanick uh you mentioned it was three year at linebacker and asked the coaches to move to offense coming into this year uh i actually saw him live when oklahoma came to the link to play at temple back in september and he was like in a mind meld with uh their quarterback uh at that point so he was productive especially on third down like he's there's some things to like but he's definitely further down the order for a reason. All right. Let's get to a discussion that I would like to have your input on. And that is Eli Stowers,

who is the consensus number two tight end in this class. Sounds like he's going to go on day two, had that amazing performance at the Combine, jumped out of the gym, set records, 45-half inch, vert, 135-inch broad. Was pretty productive last year at Vanderbilt. He is your tight-end. 12. Now you have some, one of my favorite sections that you have in the draft guide, friend,

is those numbers that matter. And for stowers, you know, there are some, there are some eye-popping things. You had the most third-down conversions in the country over the past two years combined. And in terms of the guys, like, yards per route run, he's with a very elite group of guys where it's, it's Harold Finn and Dallas Goddard and Adam Troutman, Brock Bowers, Caleb Wilson's the one miss, Mark Andrews, Isaiah likely, Kyle Pitts, those guys like that. The profile here looks pretty good aside from, you know, he's going to be 23. That's fine. But I was kind of, I was kind of with you.

I was underwhelmed. He didn't play to me like the best athlete on the field. Yeah. Honestly, that's the one of the difference in like time speed and play speed is that this is a guy that looks like he's new to the position. He's still figuring out how to run routes. And the blocking is, it's terrible. Like there's really only two guys that I would put.

that tier in this class. I would put him and I would put Baylor's Michael Trigg in that area where it's like, we'll get to him. Playable as a blocker right now. And so to me, I'm like, all right, well, if I, if it, at best, at best, if he hits, he's like Evan Ingram, right. Like that's, that's like, to me like, that's right. That's what we're looking at.

Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, Evan Ingram is like linear route tree, like deep overs and shallow crosses and vertical down the seam and limited as a blocker. like he's fine but not you know not really usable as in every down player that's why they you know other teams have always tried to bring somebody else in to pair with them so if that if that's like what my upside case is I don't know like to me like I don't know I think I'm swinging further in the second round personally despite the testing yeah I think second round is is tough first hours now I I had him in my mock draft on Friday I'm going in the third round okay I I understand where

fran is coming from especially when you're reading the list of like the players that you know he The company he has and he makes per route run, the difference is almost all of those guys, at least are playable as inline blockers, or at least like they have the theory of being able to block. He really does not offer much there. And for that reason, like, if you're unfamiliar as the person,

he is new to the position, is he was, he was entered college as a backup quarterback at Texas A&M, then goes to New Mexico State, where he first starts playing tight end and then goes to Vandy. So I think there's, at least you would like to think

that with more time on task, he could improve as a route runner. The tricky thing with him is that, and Fran, you mentioned this in the draft guide, and I think it's a really good point that he needs to be in the right situation because he kind of is like a positionless player.

There are people who have talked about moving him to slot receiver. I don't think he's a high level mover enough to play the slot. I think you're hoping that he can develop enough as a outrunner and as a tight end that he can be like your move tight end. He needs to develop to get there,

but I think his upside is worth, I think it's worth to squeeze a little bit. A little bit more than you guys, I would say. Yeah. If Tyree Jackson, if Tyree Jackson moved to tight end instead of entering the NFL as a junior, right? Like he moves, so he transfers to,

you know, to Texas Tech instead of entering the NFL as a junior quarterback and moves to tight end early. Like, that's kind of what we're talking about. But it's the fact that he was catching passes from an upstart player team in Vanderbilt and a hyaceman runner up in Diego Pavia. I feel like everyone got excited. I just

don't see it personally. Yeah. I think I think there is more production than I think we're giving him, you and I are giving him credit for given that he seems like such a product a project but i all like if we're just talking about matching the player to the round you have predicted you know what's going to be the best value this it's like the worst value on the board if he goes if he goes second round i agree with you yeah i have one one of my hottest takes from this like film session is if you're if you're telling me like

eli stowers and max clare are like in there in the third round and you're drafting a tight end give me Stowers over Max Claire. Because that's a huge hot take. I think that's the consensus take. I don't think it is the consensus. I think MaxCard's. There's a lot of MaxClair buzz. To me, both of them are probably going to be either zeros or very close to

zeros as blockers. Max Claire has like a little bit of a higher chance to be a plus or at least adequate as a blocker. To me, I'd rather have Eli Stowers and the upside that he has. I think it's much higher than Max Clare's. Okay. I think that's probably fair. I will, I do agree.

I'd rather have clear. You're talking about like the consensus tight end two and tight end three. You know, one way in one, you know, depending on who you ask, like that's going to be the two, tight end three for for everybody. All right. A few more to buzz through here, Fran. Your tight end nine is another one where you are much higher on then consensus. That's Lake McCree from USC five years at USC. You got to sell me on him because I was pretty underwhelmed.

Yeah, I think that with him, it's more the, it's more the floor. like I buy the floor with this player. The injuries have been an issue, you know, a consistent issue up until this past season where he was most productive. But I see him in where it was just like really easy as a backup tight end. He can do a little bit of everything

and he does a little bit of everything like well enough. Like where I tripped up with guys like Claire and like Joe Royer is like, you know, like people are selling them as like, oh, like this guy's got like real starting upside. And like from a movement standpoint, they are better than McCree. But I think the McCree is a better block.

right now. And I think that McCree is just as like reliable as a receiver, just not as dynamic. He's a little bit more awkward as an athlete. But he's he's put together. Like I think he's he's ready made from that standpoint. Yeah. To me like I just buy into the floor with McCree. All right. I'm going to ask you about someone who who I like a little bit more than you do, I think. And this is one where I think the consensus does as well. So maybe I'm just being a normie here. But the consensus five is your tight end 13. That's Sam Roush from Stanford. I like a little bit. I like Roush.

267. No, 4-7, which is slower than the bar, but he's also bigger than the bar. And so that's good. And he had a very good vertical jump. So he's moving well at that size. The yards per catch are a little bit low, 10.1.

But I thought he like, I thought he comes out of a stance. Yeah. Explosively. I think he's got a good feel for the position. I liked, I liked, in terms of like matching your ranking to how much I like them, this was like my favorite one.

I think I'm like, so giving you, I'm like, this is kind of getting into like the nitty gritty of my the difference between the grades. Yeah, okay. Oh, it, I mean, it's,

I actually have a slightly better film grade on him than I do with McCree. Honestly, they're basically like the same grade. And McCree is my tight end nine. You said, Rosh is my Titan 13, right?

Yeah. They, we're talking like razor margins. I think, so I've got Stowers and Claire and Marley. and Marlin Klein in between these guys. Yeah, from Michigan. Yep.

And so all of those guys, it's like, you know, they are in a developmental tier, right? Like they're in like an upside tip. You know, whether it's like medical, you know, some kind of red flag that kind of bumps them into a, that kind of bucket on the horizontal board. That's basically what is separating, like, the rouse from that group. Honestly, as I make my final pass through, that's where guys like can make big jumps up to vertical board. I'm like oh like like you know maybe when I first started going through Rouse I'm like like oh like he's probably I lean more towards tight end three than a tight end two but after seeing him live a couple times I'm like I probably like actually like a more as a tight end too

so that's like a revisit and maybe he ends up being in that group but the projection is basically the same like I see a backup tight end um was he my comp for uh was he my Cellica comp no that was um you have Charlie Warner yeah you know and Charlie Warner he got paid he ended up getting paid as a solid two as a one of the pure blocking tight end he's in that um the the guy that uh from the ravens who coaler yeah yes yes exactly there's a nice there's a nice linear improvement for roush over his three years as a starter which which i liked you know 288 yards a 334 to then uh 545 last year with 49 catches i i can squint and see a starting tight end eventually yeah yeah there are some people that feel that way certainly we

And that's why he's in some people's like top four, top five of the position for that reason. We've got a few more guys to get to, but we will do it, Fran, in overtime. All right, who's someone that you want to talk to Fran about? Do you want to go next to your Wyoming friend? Oh, yeah. So, Fran, I remember I texted you during the combine about John Michael Gillenborg. I did not get to watch much of him as I was going through these guys. But I remember thinking that, like, of the guys doing the workouts, he stood out as one of the better

the better lookers, at least in underwear. Yeah. He looked good in underwear. He, I mean, he's an impressive athlete. You know, he's, he's tall. The, honestly, he's a past catcher first. The blocking kind of left me a little bit underwhelmed.

It is similar to the Tanner Kozhoujel conversation. I think Kozell's a little bit further along from like route running, blocking than what we're talking about here with Gillingborg. But there were some people, I mean, he's a freaksless guy. that does show up on film I think it did show up in the tight end workout as you mentioned

Great short shuttle Yep, yeah he's He's an impressive mover But it's just it's gonna come down to like Can he get better as a route runner? Can he get better as a blocker? If I remember right he had he had a there was like drop stuff with him It was more like the round running that the route running was my big my big concern with him But we're in a four six

He got explosive traits my hope my hold up on Gillingborg I really wanted to like him yeah Yeah But if he's not that good of a blocker and he's this explosive athlete. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to downplay the mountain west, but you're playing at Wyoming.

I'd like to see a little bit more production. I mean, best year was 425 yards on 30 catches. Like, I don't know, go out there and run some people over. Yeah. Yeah, and that's, you know, I was thinking about this and, you know, even like listening to you guys talk about, like, you know, stowers and, you know, Max Clare and some of these other guys,

you know, it comes down to, when I think of like my grade scale and like how I project players and how I stack and it's like I don't do round grade because in my brain like with how I work if I start getting into like round grade

to me that's easier to kind of conform to like group think right it's easier to conform to like oh like he has him as a second or third rounder so I'll put him in like third fourth round and it's easy for me to like you know kind of ride the fence for that exact thinking though Beau

is like I'm looking I'm like all right well if he's got like this flaw and this flaw and this flaw then I don't know if he can make it even like to tighten two. So if he's a tight in three, like, all right, this is the bucket that he's going to be kind of working in. And that's kind of how I viewed Gillenborg at the end of the day. Because even like seeing him up close, I'm like, oh, like, man, this kid that really looks the part. And same thing with Stowers.

So you can't see Stowers and you're like, man, like this kid is really explosive. But if I can't use him as a blocker right now, like I, you know, then what exactly are we talking about? He doesn't play special teams. So like that means that's even like you're even threading a tighter needle on the back end of the depth chart, which, you know, that's a similar conversation you're having here with Killingborg. All right. I'm going to eventually ask you to answer for your sins on the Nate Borkature front. But before we get to that, I do have to ask you about one other guy.

And this to me was like, okay, I'm Howie Roseman. I got to appreciate blocking more. Okay, like I'm watching Eli Raritan from Notre Dame. I can see him doing it. Like, okay, this guy can get in the field. Josh Kovas from Alabama, like he's doing everything that's fine. And it's the meme of me like walking down the street with those guys. And then Michael Trigg walks by, man.

And I know he can't block. But you want to talk about moving the needle. Like, I mean, some of the plays he makes as a receiver. Yeah. I loved watching Michael Trigg. I can't help it. Yeah. I think there are, to me, like the profile is a little worse.

And with Trigg, you know, like the complete picture. He's going to be 24 as a rookie. I love how that's what you start with. But yeah, but it's true though, as I was going to say, the top 20 guys, there are only two, two tight ends who have no red flags. It's Justin Joe Lee and it's Michael Trick. Now, you know, there's no, there's no number for blocking. So, you know, his red flag is his inability or, or negative as a blocker. But I mean, like, there are like actual red flags, though.

What do you mean? Correct. Like he's been suspended a couple times, transferred a bunch. Yeah, friends with Jackson Dart. It might be a red flag for some people, but. Yeah, to me, like, that's where I get home a little bit. Yeah, that's where I'm just kind of going through. I want to make sure I, like, word this correctly,

just because, you know, we start diving into this stuff. It can get a little, you know, a little hairy. But, yeah, he, there was, like, suspensions and things like that. So he was at USC and then transferred to Ole Miss. Ole Miss with Dart, who was his roommate at USC. He moved with Dart from USC to Ole Miss. And then I ran into trouble at Ole Miss, you know, and then ends up transferring again to Baylor

and just kind of even like reading between the lines of like coach quotes. So I put a, there's a number of quotes in there from, uh, from coaches and stuff. And you just kind of see like, all right, you get,

you can you start to get a handle of, uh, when coaches are dancing around things. And I just kind of had that vibe, uh, from Trigg and I throw in the blocking and the lack of special teams. But yeah, like, you know,

there was like, I'm sure the one catch you guys saw. It was like that one like one handed snag along the left sideline like down, you know, 25 yards downfield. He's, he's, and he's got like 11 and a half inch hands.

Like it's something like that where it's, I mean, you can see like how easily he can pluck the ball out of the air, but he's not a good route runner. And I'll tell you. It's just, yeah, it's a tough, it's a tough profile for me to buy into it in this class. I thought he had a good sense of space, even if he's not a polished route runner. Like there were some times, there's one where he like he peels off a little comeback and goes vertical and the quarterback finds him. It reminded me a little bit of what I liked about Brandon Ayyuk as a prospect where like it just felt like he saw the, the space. of the field before everybody else in the field did. I don't know.

The idea of using two fourth or fifth round picks on a tight end, one of them is a Michael Trigg type, and one of them is a blocking kind of guy. I kind of like that. Yeah, I think that is fun, like Cody Hardy and Michael Trigg. Something like that. And Trigg was, like, he was a big time basketball player. When we were talking about like the spatial awareness,

that is typically a marker for the basketball. He was a 2020 guy as a sophomore, you know, in Florida as a basketball player. It was a big time. It was a D1 recruit, yeah. Yeah, so D1 basketball recruit. So, yeah, there's certainly a lot to like, but a lot to be scared of. All right. We got to, we will circle back now.

Nate Borkature. Yeah. It would be 25 as a rookie friend. Like, doesn't catch the ball, even despite being that old. We had 19 catches this year. Didn't catch the ball. Didn't catch the ball. He was probably, he was relatively productive this year.

They had two stud receivers so that he was down the pecking order, but I mean, come on. Titan 4? Yeah, I feel good. Dude, I like his skill set a lot. Yeah. I think that when you're looking at total package of,

if you want to say like, what are the most important characteristics of a, you know, starting or like, you know, like high platoon tight end, it's if you want to say like blocking hands and route running, to me, like he's as well-rounding. in those three areas as basically anybody in this group. One of the better route runners in this class,

I mean, the production profile sucks. It's terrible. He was a non-factor for four years or five years at Nebraska. Four years at Nebraska, yeah. Four years in Nebraska. Now, you may remember last year they had this kid Thomas Fadone, who was a fourth-year junior who declared, and he was the number one tight end prospect in the country coming out of high school.

and didn't really do a ton with that in college, but he was like, oh, he was the number one tight end. From what I gather is like there was some politics at play when it comes to like Fadone was at the top of the depth chart and then Borkature was behind him. Take that for what it's worth. So it's like, you know, I think that I can explain away some of the lack of production there with Borkature.

Even going to the senior bowl. And you know, like I really like Justin Jolie going into the senior bowl. Like I thought Borkature was the best tight end down there. Yeah, to me, I like his skill set moving into the NFL. Same. He's, I mean, two-way tight ends aren't easy to find. Like, and if, if he were younger or more productive,

he would be probably what, a first or second round pick? He had, you didn't even have 200 yards receiving in a single season ever. Despite getting to play in college for 15 years. Frank just gave you the context there. He just gave you the reasons. To me, I am, I am less scared by. Like, I will be the guy. If he's good, that's fine.

I'm not going to draft that guy, but let you know better because you've done that you do a little more from like the production like end of it for yeah to me like the receiver product lack of production is more worrisome for tight end, right? Or is that have you found that it's been pretty similar for both? What do you mean? For tight end than wide receiver. Lack of production, lack of production in college and then transitioning that the NFL in terms

of like how that determines hit rate. It can be, yes. I mean, if you're talking like the season best that a guy has had. Right. George Kittle is the guy who everybody points. George is the guy. His best season was 314 yards. Everybody else, I mean, the next lowest is, I mean,

Jason Whitten was a while ago. So you're going even past that. It's like around 500 yards. And most of the guys are six or seven. It's pretty low. I get it. Yeah. Now on that front friend,

I do want to circle because I know you didn't watch the beginning of the show. Are we a little bit worried, a little bit worried, a little bit worried about Kenyon Sadiq's lack of production, given the fact that he was, you know, played with a good quarterback and an explosive offense. I would have liked, I like Kenyon Sadiq. I'm just like, I'm watching him, and then I look at the numbers,

and I'm like, well, where was the rest of the production? It's a little bit. I know it was like a point of contention mid-season. It kind of came up, like, in the media space, and then that kind of like circled back to the ducks, and then he had a couple big games in a row. Yeah, like, I think to me, like, that's probably one of the holes you could poke in his profile

would be the inconsistent production this year. You can explain it away in previous years, because it was like third or fourth in the depth chart. So, you know, they were circling the other guys in. But, yeah, I think especially considering the fact that they had injuries at running back, they had injuries or wide receivers. So they were cycling in all these other positions.

You would think, then you would say, all right, we got to lean on Sadiq here. And they did not do that consistently, on a weekend, week-in, week-out basis. All right, let me, last question before we let you go. I'm giving you three value props. You tell me what you would feel best about for the Eagles coming out of the draft.

For the Eagles. Sadiq, round one. Okay. Let's say Justin Joe Lee, round three. Okay. Or let's say you get to spend a fifth and sixth round pick on... Casmaric.

Let's go. This is going to be big here. Casmeric and... Josh Quabas, something like that. Like you're doubling down with guys like that. I think I'm going to lean Sadiq, then the day three guys, then Jolie. Oh, interesting.

I thought you might go Jolie one given. Yeah, it's tough. And you could swing me either way. I think that it helps to think of like, who are the names that I'd be replacing with, right? So, all right, if I'm taking Jolie in round three, does that mean? Who does that mean I'm taking in round one?

And so that's why I'm like trying to do that calculus. I know how we can talk you into it. Keldrick Falk in one in round one. Sure. And Joe Lee in round three. Well. Smile on your face right now. Yeah.

No, I think. Yeah, Sadiq's a really good player. Yeah, that's why, because I've been having that like internal debate like, all right, like, because it seems like it's definitely possible that he could be there for the Eagles of 23. It's also possibly goes to the Rams at like 13. and I do think that there are a number of like surprise teams in between that could end up taking on me.

I think of Minnesota at 18. I think of Carolina. Like there are a bunch of teams like in the late teens I think could take the swing there on Sadiq. But I do think I think he's going to be hard to pass up at 23 if that's who's if that's who's available on the board. Where do you guys land? Where do you guys land on Sadiq?

Because I missed that part of the conversation. I had Sadiq in round one is my first choice as well. I said if you get Joliet, I mean, you probably will be annoyed at me even saying it, but you get Jolian in round four, now we're talking like extreme value there, but yeah, I think I'd rather have... Well, you like Stowers more than Jolet, so... No, I don't, I don't. Yes, you do. I don't.

You like Stowers more than Max Clare. More than Max Clare. I like Stowers. I still do. What was the, what was the tight end opinion that shocked you the most for him? None? He just, he loves all the... I mean, your love for Stowers is the...

Okay, that's fair. All right. Not, not completely shocking. With Sadiq, I feel like, if you're going to use a premium pick on a non-premium,

premium position, you better be sure. And I'm, yes, I like him a lot. Right. I'm a little bit worried about the O.J. Howard of it all.

It's not, yeah, it's not a slam dunk. Yeah. But I know, but the thing is I don't think there is one. Well, that's right.

Given this draft, I don't know that, I don't know that there's a, someone I would pass on him for. So, well said. It'll be fun. All right.

Thank you, Fran. We will catch up with you down the line, maybe tomorrow as well. You're going to be in studio on Wednesday before the big doing guys event on Wednesday night. So we look forward to that. And everybody, as you are playing along, make sure that you are a diehard and checking out the diehard draft guide. Thank you for me. What are we doing tomorrow? What's the position?

I think corner tomorrow. What's our plan? Let me see. Which, you know, a lot of guys to get through. I will be on tomorrow show that. Yeah. That's friends' best position here. Should we save it for him?

Pretendment. We'll figure that out. We're going to get our list together. Yeah. But thank you, friend. We appreciate it. Appreciate it, guys. Super chat from Rob Milner,

who wants to know our thoughts on Eli Raritan, who we talked about from Notre Dame. Rob says he's a very underrated two-way guy. Eli Raritan, for those of you who don't know, 6-6-245, got big hands. the production left a little bit to be desired, but not terrible at Notre Dame. Now, this is a guy who was one of the guys

I was thinking about when I was talking about how the production is just schemed up. Yeah. And he looks like a pro. He's built like a pro. As an athlete, I was a little bit underwhelmed, but like he gets the ball

because he's schemed wide open. Yeah. And then he runs into a defender and goes down. But I think as if you tell me, he's a day three pick, adding to the room, I think that would be fine. Yeah, I think he's like a perfect day three flyer

with real upside. He was on Bruce Feldman's freaks list. So I agree, like didn't, like that fact that he is like, you know, considered that type of athlete didn't jump out at you when you watched him. But I do like him. I like him as a, you know, fifth or six-round player. Absolutely. And Fran in his draft guide points out that there's an odd lack of special teams play for

Breden, like even early in his career, oftentimes can be like a minor little yellow flag. Yeah. But I would be fine. with him on day three. Yeah. He's not a guy who I fell for. Of the day three guys, he is one of my favorite ones.

Well, sorry, the late day three guys. He's among my favorites. Yeah. Kay's the consensus number eight tight end. So might go a touch earlier than that. Yeah. So your guys from doing this exercise.

You go first. Let me think of it. What are you going to think about? Yeah. Let me. How many way take it? Three. Trigg is on there.

I had the most fun watching him. But in terms of like, who would I actually draft? Rouch is up there for me. Yeah. I heard who I like, man, if he was, if he was 22, then he would like, I would like, I would, like, I would pound the table for him. I think I like, I think, I wouldn't call Jolie my guy because it's France number two. And he's already away from consensus on that.

So I guess if it was going to be between the three of us, who's my guy, it probably would be rash. I would have got grouse from you. I like that. I don't know. There are, there's no one who's like blowing me away, but there are a lot of guys who I'm like, okay. That's a good person to add to the room. Yeah, I agree. Like that's what friend always told us about this class.

Exactly right. There's a lot of guys who you consider tight end two's, tight end threes in your room, like functional rotational pieces, but not necessarily the number ones. For that reason, I'm going to, well, first off, what am I doing? It's my first year here. I'm going to take the easy one. I'm going to take Kenyon Sadeek. You can't do that.

That's not how it works. I'm mostly teasing you. Will Casmeric, Cody Hardy. Absolutely. Those are my types of players right there. Nasty, dirty work guys. And I think the Eagles could use that profile. So I think that it makes a lot of sense to add them.

If you're going to go. Yeah, I like Royer as like a potential actual two-way guy. And then I like Eli Stowers more than you guys. I probably actually around consensus on him. I think for us, your stowers is your guy. Yeah, I think so. And it's the thing that's... You're a big Texas guy.

Do you like Jack Endries? Actually really didn't. Yeah. He seems like a good college player. He's close with Zach Hertz as well. So he's got that Eagles connection. He had the... It was the most intelligent in terms of making sure

he played for a good quarterback, played with Fernando Mendoza and then went to go play for Arch Manning. I thought he looked better at Cal than at Texas. The thing about him is like, I just don't know like what his plus trade is

that makes him like an NFL guy. Respectfully. So, yeah, I like Stowers more than you guys do. The thing that sucks about liking Stowers is if he gets drafted into the wrong system, he's not going to make it at all. It's going to be a disaster.

Yeah, but that's the thing is. That is the thing about evaluating him. But like, But that's the thing about that position, you know, it's, it's not, it's a little bit different than Kyle Pitts, but it's, I mean, it's kind of like the, it's similar. It's like the Isaiah Simmons conversation. Yes, it is. It's exactly like the Isaiah Simmons. Okay, if we, if we spend all week figuring out how to get Eli Stowers.

I don't think it's that complicated with Eli Stowers. Schemed up in the game plan. Yeah, he can be a big player. But we got a lot of other stuff to do. I don't think he needs to be a part of an offense. I don't think he's that, like, difficult to fit in. but if he gets put into the wrong system and they try to turn him into a slot receiver,

then yeah, he's going to be a, it's going to be a disaster. So that's why it's not fun to be like Eli Stowers is my guy because, you know, it could backfire if he goes to the wrong place. But he's a situation-dependent player, but going back to that old adage that scouts will say, like tell me what he can do, he has real upside if he is used correctly. Marlon Klein question in the chat from Michigan,

who we talked about brands tight end 11, a bunch of red flags for me low production, low yards per catch, small hands and I was kind of bored watching him. Yeah, same. He seems like, you know, maybe that's a good thing.

He might turn into like a really, really good number three tight end in the league. Yeah. Yeah. I was, yeah, I was not blown away by him. I should mention Eli Raritan 22, so that's a good little extra. He's your guy?

No, he's not my guy. I think Rosh was the guy who I, who I liked watching. the most of the non top 10 guys. And I liked Royer. Michael Trigg's a lot of fun, man. Yeah, I love how he's got red flag, his yards for catch or low.

He's old. No, he doesn't have. Michael Trigg doesn't have red flags. Oh, okay, yeah. He just has, like, actual things that will scare teams off. But he doesn't have any, like... Yeah, it's nothing serious.

Yeah, no, I'm not trying to, like, you know, character assassinate the guy. It'll be kids. I mean, yeah, it is a thing, like bouncing around from school to school, getting suspended. Yeah, but if you, the more you bounce around,

the more there will be people to talk oh that is totally true I mean absolutely they got to make themselves look good so yeah I don't know fair all right it was fun good discussion this was good excited for tomorrow what position I'm we're gonna talk about we'll figure out we should save corner for Fran yeah maybe back don't you comment let's let's see what the chat has to say about we got to get to work so we can't yeah but much time I mean give them a couple hours so after the show get in the comments and tell us what positions you want us to do. What positions you want to do them all eventually, but.

Let's get out of here. It's either going to be defensive tackle or reverse cowgirl. Stick with us on the P.H.O.I. Eagle Show. We'll talk to tomorrow at 2 o'clock for Lindsay, E.J. and Fran, I'm Bo. We'll talk to tomorrow. And as always, we love you. the mayor