PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Opinion Movers: How Jalyx Hunt, Moro Ojomo & more changed how we feel in 2026

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

As the Eagles’ search for an offensive coordinator continues, we reflect on the players who changed our opinion of them the most in 2026, from standouts like Jalyx Hunt and Moro Ojomo to players like Cam Jurgens who had a disappointing season given the expectations. EJ Smith, Bo Wulf and Deniz Selman bat that topic around while prepping for the fun snowy weekend ahead. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast on a Friday afternoon, we are live from the X-Fenity Studio. And we're presented by Bet365 and Ashley. We are Bo Wolf, E.J. Smith and the professor, Dana is Selman. Guys, how are you doing? I'm doing well. We are Bo Wolf, E.J. Smith, and Danae. Selman. Okay. Maybe I should have set up between you guys. We tried to, we talked about where everyone's sitting. We are here. We are live from this place. We are presented by these people. And who are we? We are me, you, and you. I am Bo Wolf joined by Dana's.

No. That's usually what you say. I'm here every day. Well, I understand, but the sentence also works this way. It's the beginning of a series. Who are we? It just threw me for the loop. I apologize.

How are you doing, Danes? I'm doing well. We just learned already that there's no school. So Penn has not announced anything, so I don't know if I have class yet, but everyone doesn't. So yeah, the TAs will be to work anyway. Yeah, I mean, of course. Yeah. My fear right now, my number one fear is that like the power is going to go out Sunday and we can't watch the games.

I mean, I know that's like a privilege of life. If that's your number one fear, but like that's, I am concerned. I mean, how often does like that that could actually happen? Famous last words here. Maybe I'm not, you know, but how often does the power in Philadelphia go out? That's a good question. It's an insane amount of snow all at once.

It could also be like the cable wires It messed up. It doesn't have to be the As long as the power doesn't go out, I can stream it too. Right. Yeah, we do still have cable. Yeah, I don't know why. inertia.

How are you feeling you know, you've already had this bachelor's dem week. Smaller. Will Julia be back before the snow? No, she's supposed to get back Sunday night, which means she probably won't get back till Monday. So what are you going to do with, you know, have you,

done grocery shopping for yourself. Yeah, I went grocery shopping last night. Yeah, on my way home. Was there anything left on the store? Yeah, it was cleaned out a little bit more. Yesterday morning. It was totally fun. Totally normal, right? I'm going after the show, so I don't know if I'm too late.

I got to make sure I got enough food for the dogs. That's the only thing. I don't really understand the food. Like, you don't, I understand worrying about the power. Yeah. You don't have enough food to make it through. I mean, what's the, it depends on what? What's the realistic worst case scenario?

48 hours you can't go anywhere? It depends on what food you're willing to settle for. You know what I mean? If it's like Siriani's coach's meeting and you're eating the leftover cheese, it's like, yeah, you can survive. But yeah. You'd like, you'd like to be able to make some nice food. I got a couple of, it's funny. Like I cook all the time.

There's just something about like the Bachelor weekend where I don't want to cook. Totally agree. So I got some like good like stick it in the oven for 20 minutes and it's ready meals. You feel like McCullochin and Home Alone here. I haven't seen that movie until two years ago. Really? Yeah. I mean,

yeah, it's never made it in the rotation. Yeah. Okay. This is another one where when you tell us, like you weren't born when it came out or something, I'm going to be surprised, right? Is that right for that?

That is right. I mean, I wasn't born when I came out. That's probably not why I didn't see it. Okay, okay. Yeah. It took me a little while. We have,

with our, I don't know, a good friend, a good friend of Evans and his parents, they invite us over on Friday night for movie night, and we need. like an eight-year-old appropriate movie once a week that the parents will also enjoy.

And so this has been, this has been like a dilemma. Like, like, you know, is this too scary? Is this a little bit too whatever? So any suggestions of the time? You do it once a week? We'd be welcome. We pretty much go every week. Yeah.

And so it's like, what have been the big hits so far? Well, like, I mean, we've done, like, tonight we're going to do back to the future. Like, that's one where it's like fun enough for the adults without being. We've done some like Japanese anime stuff, which has been good. What's like, um, but then sometimes it's like Muppets Halloween special or whatever.

And it's like, yeah, I don't, I'm not a big fan of like the new world of rock. Yeah. School of rock. Oh, we have not. That's a good. Okay. Jackpot. Okay.

That's good. I like that one. Yeah. That's good. Uh, we haven't done Princess Bride with them, but that's one that we've done. So, yeah. Yeah. Just, uh, I always try to push for like a little bit more, a little bit less, you know, animated, a little bit more like

back to the future style. but we'll see. You like the sort of Oedipus undertone there to Back to the Future. You like, that's, those are the, that's not the, that's, that's actually the main concern about Back to the Future is the Oedipus thing. There are other movies that have, it's just like, it's like anything from the 80s just has this like problematic, casual, you know, casual racism, sexual, whatever that like, we kind of have to explain like, okay, I never say that, you know, whatever.

What about the sand lot? That's 11 Wallace in the chats. I haven't seen the samlo. Oh, really? Oh, San lot's a good one. Danes like the same lot? I feel like, yeah, I think you would.

Yeah, okay. Samlott. That was a movie I watched a lot as a kid. We've done that constantly. All right. All right. Let's get to it. We've got a lot to talk about on the show today,

despite six minutes of nonsense there to start the show. It's a Friday. It's a Friday. We've got updates on the Eagles offensive coordinator of search. We're going to talk a little bit more about Declan Doyle. Doyle, Double D. We're going to talk to Fran Duffy, who's live in Dallas, where he's at the Shrine game, watched the first day of practices today.

He's got some thoughts on Declan Doyle and some of the other Eagles tiebucks we're going to discuss. But let's do that first in the big takeaway presented by Xfinity. And E.J., you and I started this exercise at the end of yesterday's show, talking about the players we think who changed our opinion of them the most from the beginning of the 2025 season to the end of it. And as you would expect from a team that had a relatively disappointing season, I mean, they made the playoffs.

That's, that's, they won the division. But I went to this exercise. There were 14 guys I have here on my list. Okay. Including the two we did yesterday. Yeah.

Four of them were changed our opinion for the good. Ten of them were changed our opinion for the bad, which is probably about what you would expect. Yeah. We talked yesterday about Jalick's Hunt for the good, Cam Juergens for the bad. why don't we let you go first with the next person that you'd like to discuss? I want you to go first again because,

okay, yeah, maybe I want to see how you play it. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what, then I'm going to give you another one of the goods just to get them off the board.

Okay. And this is a player who I think we have discussed quite a bit as having been the most pleasant surprise of the season to some degree. And that is Jordan Davis. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about it. When the Eagles picked up his fifth year option,

we weren't sure if that was the right decision. he had not really earned that level of pay given his level of play over the first three years of his career. But this year he was, I mean, he was just awesome. He was the like one man wrecking crew as a run defender that they expected him to be when he was drafted. He added just enough as a pass rusher. And he was stayed on the field. So yeah. Not on, not in third and past situation.

No, but he played more. Yeah. And I think that that was like, I think maybe two. years ago, the question was, right, is Jordan Davis going to become a guy who plays maybe three years ago, right? Is he going to be a guy who's on the field on third and long? And he's a first round pick. They expected him to be on the field on third and long when they drafted him. And that was the bar. Yeah. And I think it's good that we've been able to adjust our expectations and say that he had a good year, even though he wasn't that, right? We were talking about how he was getting tired

and getting up, like, leaving the field on early downs as well last year. And that didn't happen this last year. So, yeah, I will go Jordan Davis. I'll take the low hanging fruit there. So pretty tall hanging fruit, actually. Yeah, absolutely. I am torn now between going chalk or kind of like honoring the spirit of the A block, like the most interesting discussion.

Go ahead. Okay. So I want to, I will, I'm not going to qualify it. We'll just unpack it. Everyone just stick with us. Nobody can be normal about this. It's like, well, I'm the king of qualifying things on this show. Is it more Ojima or is a Kamlatu?

That's not again. No, those would have been chalk for me. I think that Jalen Hertz is a part of this discussion. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, I wouldn't say that my perception of Jalen Hertz has swung significantly in the last 12 months. I think it's changed a good amount in the last 12 months. I think that the new information over the last year, I mean, it's funny.

Well, more specifically, like the last 11 months. Well, sure, exactly. Yeah, because I was going to say every single day, I usually I'll do, you know, something in my office in the morning. And I walk past an article that I wrote 11 months ago about how the Eagles have the quarterback. Jalen Hertz is silence the doubters once and for all. Yeah. He has proven that he is a quarterback you can win a Super Bowl with and that he is the franchise quarterback the Eagles have been looking for. Like he's solidified that.

Is your house fully decorated with your articles? No, of course not. Of course not. That's the wallpaper. It's just my article. No, it is funny, though, now that you ask me about this, it's a good time to bring this up. My dad, like, in the basement, he's got, like, all of, like, their uniforms and, like, I've got a poster when I played high school football. And then there's just one of my articles up on the wall.

It's like this guy, like, I didn't play sports in college, but I wrote some pretty good stories. Like, you know, which one is it? Which article? It is an article about how Temple Sports Department shifted with the athletic cuts and how they entered the arms race of college sports. which has not aged particularly well. Well, they entered the arms race. It just hasn't gone great for them. So he doesn't,

he's not as much of a fan of your recent work. No, if I gave him one article. But yeah, it is staggering to think about how much things have changed in the last 11 months. And again, I want to say that like my opinion on Jalen Hertz, I wouldn't say that I've, my confidence in him being a franchise quarterback has wavered all that much. I think at the bottom line with anything we discussed about Jalen Hertz,

I usually try to end it with, you can win a Super Bowl with him. And that is a tough question to answer with quarterbacks, especially highly paid quarterbacks. I would say the conversation around Jalen in the building and really even in the public eye, but especially like the scrutiny internally that Jalen Hertz has received in the last 11 months, I think it has been a humongous perception change. I agree with that.

Yeah. I think the two most tangible things that have changed about our collective opinion about Jalen Hertz. One is what is going on with him not wanting to run? Is that an offense thing or is that a Jalen thing? And it's a question we don't know the answer to right now. And so that's a mystery. And obviously if he's not going to do that,

that changes your opinion of him as a player. And then the other one is just, I think this was probably overstated to begin with. But the idea that, oh, well, if it's the big game, you know that Jalen's going to have his best. And like, you know, that kind of a dud in the playoffs.

Like I think that's that's okay to say you know what it wasn't the Super Bowl maybe maybe if they got all the way to the big game Then he would have had his best but and he wasn't good in the early rounds of the playoffs last year exactly Yeah, so I think that narrative was was probably a little bit over suited to begin with but we can lay it to rest a little bit I totally agree I think the Eagles should still feel good that they have a Super Bowl caliber quarterback Yeah, they should but there's no doubt there's no doubt that their internal opinion and ours has changed a little bit yeah what do you think professor about Jalen Yes. Has your opinion of him changed? I don't think it's changed enough to put high on this list. Like if I, like, you know, looking through, you know, if you're, if you're multiplying by how important the player is.

Of course. Of course. Yeah. No, it obviously is very important. I think one of the issues, in fact, going from last year to this year, it wasn't that Jalen's play necessarily got worse. It's that it became more important, how good it was. True. Like the fact that the run game.

wasn't just humming and the offensive line wasn't, you know, as good in particular in the run game. And to some degree, like the play calling and play sequencing wasn't as good either, right? You needed the quarterback to elevate like all of those things. Like the, you know, the horrendous play sequencing and calling, the bad situations that the team was being put in more third and longs, like all those things, made it such that you needed more of those moments of Josh Allen asked Kiro Ball from the quarterback and he maybe like isn't that guy, right? Like, and we never really thought he was. But like, which is why my perception hasn't changed that. Yeah, I think I understand that.

Yeah, I think it showed. I think the season kind of like shined a light on his weaknesses more so than those weaknesses like grew or anything like that. You know, like so, so that's kind of and which is why like when we talk about OC candidates later in the show like that's one of the things that I think is going to be very important is that I don't think, and I know you guys were saying this a little bit earlier this week, and others have said it as well, the reason that I want to aim for upside with the OC search is that competence is just going to continue to make it so that like the quarterback has to

elevate and like the roster has to elevate and I'm not sure that those are there anymore. The last thing I want to say about it is, you know, acknowledging some of the internal scrutiny that Jalen Hertz has faced in the last, really the last few months in particular. like I also want to make it clear. Like I wrote a story about how Jalen has been perceived as more open, more accessible to his teammates. And like I've, because I get this question sometimes from people like,

how can both things be true? How can both things be true? Exactly. And what I would say to that is you can go in my story about Jalen being more open and more available and read exactly who I talk to. Okay. So like it is clear that there are people in that,

in the locker room and in that building that think that Jalen has taken strides in specific. areas that I wrote about. I think it's also fair and, you know, I think like when you read about the internal frustration that exists in the building, it's obviously apparent. It's there. It's not the people I talk to is what I would say. Well, and also, I mean, listen, it is your job. It is our job as reporters or people trying to figure out things in the building to reach out to people. Yeah. But the selection bias of that professor is that.

that the people you are going to hear from are going to be likely people who have something to complain about or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's not going to be worth reporting if you say, I talked to 10 people and they said, yeah, Jalen's fine. Right. Right. Right.

So. But it just, to me, like, bringing both of these things up paints the picture that is, I think, the most accurate, which is that there are people in that building that think that Jalen has done a great job in the last 11 months. And again, has been more open, more accessible, better, you know, more trusting with his teammates. And then there are people who are frustrated with the way that the offense looks, and they will point the finger at him for that. To the degree that there are people in the building who are curious about what it would look like with somebody else.

Absolutely. Yeah. As we're going through this kind of as a fan base, somewhat like unpleasant process of getting rejected by O.C. candidates. And like, you know, looking at the mirror and being like, what don't they like about me, right? Like your body flaws. Yeah. One of the things that people bring up is that the quarterback is not appealing to coach, right? And that Mike McDaniel chose Justin Herbert over Jalen Hart's, that kind of thing.

The one thing I'll say about that as a Jalen Hertz defender. First of all, it's not clear that Mike McDaniel has chosen Justin Herbert, apparently. Chosen over Hertz. Over Hertz, yes. Is As Shane Steichen and Kellyn Moore about Justin Herbert and Jalen Hurts. They both coached Justin Herbert and literally got fired after coaching him. And then they both coached Jalen Hertz to the Super Bowl and their very next thing, very next year they were head coaches. So this idea that like, of course anyone would, like we literally have two examples of current NFL head coaches who got there after being fired coaching Herbert and then promoted after coaching Jalen Hertz.

So let's not be like quick to jump to that conclusion that that's where you want to be. So that's all. That's the one thing I'll say about that. All right. Let's close the book on the big takeaway presented by Xfinity and send you to our. our first break here. On the other side, we're going to bring our friend, Fran Duffy, to the show.

Find out if there's anybody on his list here of players who have changed his opinion the most. Find out what he thinks of young Declan Doyle and also what we need to know about the happenings at the Shrine game. Well, it used to never be ordinary at Bet365 until I messed up this ad rate for the very first time ever. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do it again.

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Live from the Xfinity Studio. We are Bo, E.J. and the professor. And now we become. The three of us. And Fran Duffy. Frank, we miss you, man.

It's good to see Frank. Doesn't it make your heart feel good to see that man? He's so happy too. And he's got the high quality whelmed with guys right now. The high quality camera work travels look. It's not so much the camera as the lighting. Well,

look, this is one of the weirdest hotel rooms I've ever stated. Oh, the lighting. Whatever we're going to talk about. Let's do 10 minutes on this. Yeah. Well, no, I was actually, I have this, I have like a running note on my laptop that I was like, I'm just going to save all of this for when I get back.

And I'll just go through the entire. So I don't know if we want to go through that, the first day and a half already. But I actually, so I did, because if I turn my cell phone off, the lighting is terrible. But then I just take my flashlight, turn the flashlight on. Oh, okay. This is a cell phone lighting over here. Wait, so why is it what, tell us about the hotel room. Why is the hotel room so weird?

There's no drawers? like there's not one drawer in the entire room. Yeah, like insane. And then the closet space, like where you would hang clothes, like there's all the cleaning stuff and like the ironing boards in there. Like there's no, there's no space to like keep clothes. I've closed just like everywhere.

It's unnerving. Oh. Yeah, four pillows, but they're all their square throw pillows. They're not like. No. Oh, wow. What are you doing?

Oh, wow. Come on. That's two things. We got, we got more to talk. about but yeah wow that's tough all right okay let's start with uh well yeah i mean the sacrifices you make well i mean come on the man is doing it all uh let's talk uh let's let's stick with this this first topic here and we will talk about more players who have who have changed our opinions of them for the good or bad as the show goes on but if if you think about this season who's the first

person who comes to mind for you that way yeah i mean certainly jordan davis was the first guy that came to mind you guys talked about him at the top of the show um I would say that that that would be the first person that where it's like, okay, you know, this is when I go in, what my preconceived notions were coming into the fall, there's what we saw, you know, from, from week one on. To me, like I thought it was just a different level of player. So that he would be the first one that comes to mind. After that, I mean, you talked about it the other day, but I think that,

and it's worth bringing up again is Jalick's hunt. I think that Jalick's did a really good job in terms of, you know, he still has room to grow as a rusher. But I think that just what he was able to do in terms of just checking the box, rush plan, run defense, obviously what he did, dropping back in coverage as well. He competed at a really high level. The athletic traits are all there. So, yeah, I thought that what we saw from J-Lix, I thought was really impressive as well.

All right, good stuff there. We'll keep that conversation going in a minute. But let's talk OC search because I know Danais has some questions here, but you were kind enough to reach around and pat yourself on the back once the Declan Doyle interview request came through to say, hey, I called this after the Bears game. So why are you interested in Deppin Doyle? He coined it. Yeah, well, look, I didn't say it on the show. It was I was trying to, I was talking yesterday. I was like, I forget if I said it when I was like, when we were walking down to the car or if we talked about it before or after the show.

But it was something I just kind of wanted to earmark for this part of the off season. And shame on me for not bringing it back up. But I think that this is a profile that I think would make a lot of sense. I think obviously he's on the younger side. and that would be the concern is that he is not someone who was established who has done this before and that you know is going to come in and his words might carry a ton of weight. But that said, I'm really intrigued by what he is or who he has been around over the course of his young coaching career. Certainly working with Ben Johnson here this season, but then with Sean Payton before that, you know, came from the college ranks.

He played at Iowa and then coached at Iowa. You talked about like the, you know, the background there yesterday. But, you know, this is a guy that has been around. on creative run games, creative past games, based on physicality. I think that to me, like, this is someone I would definitely want to talk to. I don't know a ton in terms of like, oh, he's ready for an OC job right now. But that would be someone that he has certainly piqued my interest, certainly, in this market right now. How do you feel about this possibility, professor?

About Douglin Doyle? Yes. Well, this brings us back to the thing that E.J. was talking about earlier in the week, which I guess Jeff McLean reported that they were going to, offer full autonomy to a Mike McDaniel or a blind dable, but that they are not going to offer that to every candidate, right? So Ducklin Doyle, who may or may not be 30, Wikipedia doesn't know famously. Which, by the way, I do think from the Eagles perspective, the most intriguing thing about Declan Doyle is that he appears to be unmarried. So the Eagles do not need to worry about

where his wife is from. California. Okay, there you go. That's good. Any geographical considerations for his significant other. Yes. There we go. Uh, I think. think like the number one concern that I would have with the Declan Doyle would be he comes in and he's not really allowed to do his own thing. Yeah. Right. Like it's like, okay, you're going to, you're going to install the offense and you're going to, we're going to let you call the plays. But we're constantly going to be in your ear, you know, hey, it's second and eight. Like, make sure you run it to get the third manageable now. Like, you know, like, because we know Nick is, does say things like that during the game to the O.C. So like we've seen that on mic'd up and things like that. So if that's

how it's going to be, then that's my concern. Like, it's like if you're just going to, if you're just going to let him actually do his thing and you're, and you're going to be, and you're going to live with the volatility of, of having a first time play caller, um, you know, be the OC. I'm okay with that. Like, you know, we can get into it later, but like, like, like, why I'm not, why I don't want a guy like Matt Nagy, you know, like, like, is because like, I'm done with the, like, like, not getting Mike McDaniel, like the next step is like, okay, let's, let's, let's go for upside. because this idea of like, let's just get competence in the building, that might have been the right thing during the Kellynne Moore hire two years ago

because of the state of the roster then. I don't think the state of the roster is the same now. I really loved EJ's framing from yesterday, which was, if you want to repeat it, go ahead. But the comparison to the Siriani search in 2016 where you have your initial wave of preferred candidates, you get rejected by them all, and instead of just fishing at the bottom of the barrel of the obvious candidates,

you go ahead and think, okay, these are the guys who are likely to be top candidates next year, if all goes well, let's get ahead of it with those guys. I think that's a good, I think that's a good way to think about it. Yeah, because we're down to Mike Kafka and Jim Bob Cooter, like when it comes to people who have called plays before. And like, if that's where we are and, you know, Frank can say what he thinks about those guys, but like, I was going to say, Fran, are you going to surprise this with any, any opinion on those guys?

I think my opinion would be shared by most of the guys that are in the studio. right there. I wouldn't be too enthused by either one of those. Did you have a, did you have a grizzard opinion based on the Eagles bucks game? Or a Joe Brady maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would be, I would be more enthused by Joe Brady, number one.

I would put, I would put Joe Brady and like Declan Doyle. And the thing is that Brady has done it. So I think that he would probably carry a little bit more cachet, you know, over the last, what he's done over the last few years. But I would say, you know, Brady, Doyle, then probably Grizzard after that, you know, in terms of how I would kind of stack those guys right now. My big thing, you know, you talk about the Siriani search in the spring of 2021, the offseason of 2021. I'm just hoping that when it comes to this offense coordinator higher, you know, building off of Dana Z's point that

Jeffrey Lurie, Howie Roseman, they learned the lessons that were served to them in the six months prior to the Siriani search, where you bring in Rich Skangarello and you hire some coaches from the lower level assistance from college level. It was like, we're going to take pieces of this. We're going to take pieces of that. We're going to take pieces of this. And it was not one identity. It was this Frankenstein offense where a lot of the thing where you, again, like you didn't know what was what. And some voices were heard sometimes. And then they weren't heard others.

And there was just a lot of back and forth. My hope is that leadership with the team kind of learned lessons from that. process and say, all right, even if Declan Doyle, yeah, like he's a little bit green, but, you know, to quote Jeffrey from when they hired Nick, we're hiring him for the officer coordinator we think he can be. Yeah, it might be rough patches early on, but let's let him find his voice. If we really have faith that he is going to be one of those guys in this, you know, in this space, you almost kind of let him, let him fail a little bit, you know, and then get back on the, get back on the bike and keep rolling. Let me ask Fran this, because yesterday I was going through

some of the things that I, you know, would be theoretically excited about with the Declan Doyle offense and how he's going to bring a modern offense with all his 13 personnel in Hunter Center. So I don't know why you think 13 personnel was modern. I'm joking. Okay, okay. Well, some people seem to, I mean, because McVeigh has done it a lot this year. Suddenly it's like the new thing.

Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, everything. There's nothing new under the sun, right? That's what a lot of coaches will say. But Fran, I guess since you do such a good job, like synthesizing, like, you know, Sean Payton, Ben Johnson, like, I want to hear like what actually would you envision a Declan Doyle offense looking like? Well, that's tough to say. That's why I would imagine one of the things that they would want to ask him about is that, all right, what would your offense look like if you were to say like, all right, it's going to be a combination of everything that he's been around.

I would say that the creativity with, and that's when you look at Joe Brady, like Joe Brady cut his teeth under Sean Peyton as well. So there is some crossover between those two. But I think that when you look at Brady or when you look at Declan Doyle, yeah, I would hope that, all right, you're going to get into some of the finding mismatches, attacking, you know, understanding how to attack certain route concerts or certain coverage concepts, you know, just being able to creatively game plan in the past game, but then also like the physicality, run game aspect. And honestly, like his upbringing like at Iowa, like I would imagine would feed a lot of that as well.

So I do think that he would bring a little bit more of that Iowa background. And then certainly what he learned with Ben John. with the run game and starting there, and then everything else building off of that, that would be my guess, but that's for that would be hit for him. It's an unknown. This is a,

a bit of a side track here, but along those lines, it does occur to me that a tight ends coach feels like a good breeding ground for an offensive coordinator because you do have to really deal with every part of the offense, right, and teaching the running game

and the passing game. Not that you don't have to do that at the other positions, but I don't know. It feels like an interesting pathway. I feel like I've heard that before. Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, like Dan Campbell coming up that way.

It's popped up here and there. I do think that there's something to do that. Yeah. All right. Let's get to the reason that you are not with us today. And first of all, please everybody subscribe to Fran's draft newsletter. Because not only do you get some previews for what's to come at the Shrine game, the Shrine Game or Shrine Bowl?

Shrine bowl. Shrine bowl and the senior bowl. But an interesting read today, Frank, because you really went into your process about why these weeks are important to you. So tell us, give us a little bit of a tease of that and also tell us like where the Shrine Bowl is in all of this.

What kind of players are you seeing over the next three days? Yeah, I think that for me, I've been asked a lot over the last, over the years. Like, oh, like when you go down there, like what's your approach? Like, how do you handle it? You know, people in the industry will ask, or fans will ask.

And to me, It's definitely involved over the course of my career. I mean, Bo, you and I were together for the first time I went to a Shrine Bowl, the first time I went to a senior ball. I would say that my approach then is much different than what my approach is now. But it is, it's not all that dissimilar from, you know, when we cover like a training camp practice, obviously it's a little bit different because, you know, when I'm there, there's more like schematic and like big picture things

that I'm trying to take away. You know, death chart is a big thing when you're covering those practices. where here it is like hyper-focused and I'm going to come right back and watch the be able to watch the film. So that's why I was like, all right, let me go back and just kind of like say, this is my process, how I approach it? So I covered that in the newsletter today. You know, how do I approach one-on-one drills? How do I approach when I'm watching team drills?

You know, what am I doing during warm-ups and individual periods and special teams? So covered a lot of that in the newsletter today. But there was a little bit longer than I thought, but it looks like some people like the longer read. I've gotten a lot of feedback from that. Absolutely. So yeah. So no, it was a fun one to write. But I also covered like the Brandon Bean, Terry Pagula,

and Keon Coleman's situation in Buffalo. Embarrasses. So embarrassing. It's tough. Yeah, I mean, that's one of those things. Like, I don't,

it's not really Brandon Bean's fault on that one because Paggola obviously kind of went rogue and they like literally like inserted himself into a Brandon B. Like Brandon B was getting her and answer the question. He was like, can I kind of take this for a second? She's like, oh, if you're a band of green there,

I'm sure that he was crazy. It makes him, it makes him look so much worse in every way. one that he can't answer the question for himself. Two, if it is true, then he did a bad job if he didn't think it was a good player worth drafting. And three, he's lying. So I mean, it's just, it's just Mickey Mouse stuff.

It's one of those things like on it. Because honestly, I think it's, it's probably, he's probably telling the truth. Like would be my guess. Like I don't think it's like a bold face lie. But I think that it comes down to these things where, you know, the GM might have the guy ranked as, the 34th player and he said yeah like well my 27th player still there right like so i really like this

guy over that but the coaches feel really strongly all right well hey we're going to find compromise those are the things that those happen that happens every single year um you know around the league and so that that that part of it doesn't surprise me but there's no need to do that especially when the guys on your team still it's yeah that's the part that's crazy like he's watching that being like what the hell i can't imagine he's back next year and even if that was the plan like you might they might have gone into the off season like yeah we're probably going to trade keon all right well you just eliminated all of your leverage to like make that kind of deal all right uh before we let you go the players you're watching this weekend i think we all agree the eagles need you know some some offensive

help some young offensive help so tell us if there are anybody who strikes you as a jeff stoutland type offensive lineman a day three tight end or a wide receiver with a little bit of juice day three tight end is probably the strongest group down here. I think that this tight end class overall this year is pretty strong. It really depends on what you're looking for. There's like the block, you know, blockers first. There's combo guys. There's past catchers first. And this class is full of them. So I do think that they'll have their pick here. I think that they would be, it would be probably pretty crazy if they did not address the tight end position in this draft just because I think that the volume will be there. Okay. That's early, middle or late. So my objection would be to day three.

I mean, right now, if Dallas gutter, it's gone, there are essentially no tight ends on the team at all. Well, I'm just, I am maybe being presumptuous that there might not be a day one or day two guy at the Shrine Bowl. Oh, okay, okay, got you. Yes, no, yeah, so I don't think so. I mean, there's some love for the Texas tight end, Jack Hendries as a potential day two guy. I don't quite see him that way, but I think that he's in the middle of late rounds. But yeah, and then I think from an offensive line standpoint, there are some intriguing players, probably no one you're talking. about day two. I think you're talking

in that like seeing Cam Williams range from last year where it's the round five, round six, round seven. But a handful of, you know, Jaden Roberts, the guard from Alabama. He was number four, number five on Bruce Feldman's Freaklist a couple of years ago. So he's been, you know,

in the, in the zeitgeist over the last couple of years from a draft standpoint. But really looks, I talked to him last night over at media availability and when you when you walked up to him, I mean, he is really well, put together. It looks the part and he's got traits to develop. We know that that's, you know, that's the archetype typically. I'm talking about that one. All right. Last thing, friend,

how are you getting to Mobile? Is this, is this storm going to affect you? Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is, it's like, honestly, it's the number one topic of conversation. The moment you see somebody, you talk to, you know, whether it's another media member or someone with a team and you said like, oh, like, hey, how's it going? Good to see you. What's your travel plan? Like, oh, what are you going home? Are you going to Mobile? Like, what's the deal? My plan was to go Monday morning. Now, what's happening is it's raining outside right now, and then it's going to be like this deep freeze and no, you know, down here, no one's prepared for any of this. So, uh, everybody's, uh, everybody's panicking. Shelves are empty. You know, what are we going to do? It is supposed to be like a bad ice storm.

So it's nothing to stick your nose up to, but they just don't have the infrastructure down here to like handle it. So they're saying like, you know, there could be power outages. There could be, you know, basically like everybody off the road for two days. Like I might be locked to my home hotel room tomorrow with my four pillows.

So we'll see what it looks like. But I'm hoping by Monday morning that I'll be okay, you know, in terms of like being able to get out. Worst case, senior ball practice. The first practice is not until Tuesday after lunch. So I'm like all right like even if it gets pushed to to late Monday or even the worst thing we're early Tuesday

If it's still bad it's only a seven hour drive you know seven and a half eight hour drive Oh okay I'll make the drive so that sounds like fun. Yeah, that'd be fun I've never done that drive from Dallas to mobile so have you seen any of the the classic draft characters fake Josh Norris or anybody? Of course well though we've had this conversation though That's right. I forgot But yes, I've definitely seen some of the classic characters, yes. All right, we'll tell them who said hi. Thank you so much, friend.

Everybody subscribe to the friend Duffy NFL draft newsletter and check out the draft guide on all p.cholwai.com. We'll talk to you next week, friend. Safe travels, friends, guys. Talk to you soon. Love you. Let's take a break. Come back with more on the P.HLY Eagles podcast.

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The offer is only valid for new Factor customers with the code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchases. But again, make healthier eating easy with Factor. Back on the PHOY Eagles podcast, we are down to three. Bo E.J. and the professor. Professor, I'm going to give it to you. A player or person who has changed your opinion about them the most over the past. Yeah. Well, you guys already mentioned Cam Juergens,

but I think like if I were to step back and say this Eagles team going forward, what's the biggest difference in perception from after winning the Super Bowl to looking forward now would be the offensive line. Yeah. You could call it Jeff Stoutland. you could call it like just the state of the roster there. Yeah, I mean,

I have Lennon Dickerson on my list as right. Landon Dickerson for sure. And I know like I know this this violates the the exercise a little bit because like we're going player by player. But like in part because not that many players move the needle that much for me beyond the ones you guys have already talked about. I think that would be the the one main thing that I think is very different about the team going forward.

Yes. Is that the perceived quality of the offensive line. went from being top five for sure maybe the best to is it going to be average is it going to be average and they get to the back end of the top 10 we don't know if lane johnson is going to be on the team if he is we don't know how good he's going to be he didn't have that great a year this year he i mean he like it wasn't bad but it wasn't lane johnson level jordan myelada had probably his worst season since you know the first couple that he started tyler steen's just a guy right like it's like lannon dickerson had a not very good here like cam jerkins looks like he literally can't move yeah like like why should I think that he's going to be able to move next year I am probably like just I bring it up for the hundredth time and I and I will probably keep doing it all off season but I still point to last year's draft like right the first three rounds it seemed very obvious to me that the howie roseman thing would be to draft lane Johnson successor now right no it's tough you got the 30 second pick right

and probably you wouldn't have gotten Josh Simmons if if you had made that trade up because Kansas City would have taken him anyway. But I'm sorry. I think Jahat Khan was a really exciting young player. He couldn't get on the field in the playoffs. It's fine. Yeah. And the defense was fine.

And so him and then McCuba, and I like Maccuba too, but guess what? Marcus Epps was like better than he was. He was probably better than he was. And by the board, like he was an off consensus pick ahead of the guys at like Jonas Sanker and Xavier Watts,

who by the way was available with the Eagles original third round pick. Yeah. You know, if that pick had been, even if that second round pick had been Harold Fanon or something like that, that doesn't change your opinion of the offensive line, but it changes your opinion of the upside on offense. I really think that they messed up to some degree.

You can't pick who's on the board, but I think coming out of that draft without a first three rounds offensive player makes us really like look at this offense, like it needs a lot of help. Yeah, just to remind people, young guys waiting in the wings right now who are on the roster are guys who were drafted much later right Cameron Williams true Kendall Miles Sinton uh you got Willie

Lampkin right like he's he's waiting but like uh that's kind of it like you just don't have young people waiting as backups you've got uh you know Brett Tooth Matt prior and Fred Johnson they're all backup level players who are all free agents by the way like you don't even know if they're going to be back so yeah I mean it's not it is not promising at all and like that's why it's very important what happens in the draft and free agency this year. Like you have to address it. Like I actually, I'm very curious about what happens with with Cam Juergens. Like it's like, is he just definitely going to be the center next year?

Like if he plays again like he played this year, it's a problem. Like it's very rare for the center to be so bad that it's a problem. And Cam Juergens was a problem this year. That's how bad he was. And don't tell me about him making the pro bowl. That was just ridiculous. Like so like, you know, like like like, like, It's rare that the center is a problem.

Like on most teams, the center is like, whatever, he's not a, he's not adding value. Not only did Kim Drogens not add value. He was the sole reason that like five to six plays a game didn't work. Like, you can't have your center of play at that level. Like, it's just not acceptable. Yeah, and I've said before, I feel like this is a year where you needed another Landon Dickerson type draft pick where it's like, we drafted this guy. We think he can start.

We don't know where it's going to be, but he could end up starting double digit games. That is a good thing. is they have, they could draft any offensive liban and find a spot for him. It doesn't have to be a specific. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

I'll keep this going. This is not a fun one. It's not a nice thing to say, but I mean, I think heading into the offseason last year, we thought that Keely Ringo was ready to fight for a starting spot and ascend and at least hanging out with E. E.J. too, hold his water. I don't think everybody thought that.

And I think. I don't think everybody here thought that. I mean, I know I didn't think that. Maybe not, but even you weren't expecting it to be quite this bad. And so yeah, I mean, he enters year four and he's a very good special teams player, but that's that's all he is. We don't need to go further into burying the guy. Yeah, I'll do a quick one. Yeah, Nicoby Dean. Yeah. I mean, you know, I remember during training camp, he was voted as one of the shout out to our friend Jimmy Kamski does stock up, stock down. And Nikobi was stocked down for the sheer nature.

everyone thought he was going to get Wally pipped and you just mentioned it. Like Nikobe played over Jahad Campbell deservedly in the playoffs and set himself up to to have a free agency, a good opportunity and free agency here. Yeah, when you, when Bo mentioned Jihad Campbell, I was going to say like if you forced me to say a player, because I didn't say a player,

I would have also said Noghdi, yes. Like, and it's in a, it's in this bittersweet way where it's like, it's not obvious that it's a good thing. Right. Like it's like, are you really keeping Ngoby Dean? Because then what happens to your first round pick? Right. So, you know. I mean, I will tell you the last guy who I have as

positive Moro Jimo it's not it's not a hugely significant but he overperformed I think what reasonable expectations were for him not my not quite to the Milton Williams level but he had he had a very good season and

capitalized on the opportunity production was better than Milton just got to put that out there I don't if you guys saw there was a there was a stat that and I know you don't believe in pressure Beau but like obviously this is like correlated with things you do believe in the four teams that got the most pressure out of their interior defense

of linemen this season are the four teams that are still playing which you know like Milton Williams is one of the keys to that by the way at New England so I did not check that yeah I just saw like the next gen stats tweet or whatever it was yeah I'm not saying about William's a bad player I'm just stating the fact that more Ojimo had more sacks than him this year miss time anybody else on your list professor in terms of players who move I'll give you the run rest of mind if we want to go through it but I think for me more than players who move the needle it's like it's like

what's what's the future and I know I keep on like dodging the exercises so I apologize I guess no one I mean if I had to give you an answer it would be a j. Brown because he went from being like the best player on the team to being like might not even be on the team hates the team like was miserable year of a j brown is gonna be a 1500 yard season yeah i think that's the obvious answer is a j brown and maybe like it it's almost not worth talking about anymore which is why i don't i don't understand why he hasn't been mentioned yet but i guess that would be the next guy anybody else for you or i just give you my last five uh i had brandon graham okay went from you thought he was tired coming back playing at a really high level at a new

position and yeah you know honestly i think he would provide value going into next season as well yeah That's a good one. Jalen Carter, just a minor decrease in how I feel about him. I think we thought like a monster season was coming. Maybe it was injury related, but that didn't quite materialize. Sure. Nolan Smith, I think, had a down year given what our expectations were, the injury. He was just, he was so good at the end of last season.

He didn't quite take the next level. And then three lower level players for you. Just Ty Robinson, the idea being this guy's going to be ready to play. Yeah, really disappointing. Couldn't contribute. And that's not even active for a huge turn third-round pick. Like, that's a bad job. Will Shipley, the idea that he was going to be like the actual backup running back

and maybe a real factor in the passing game didn't materialize. And tank Bigsby overtook him. And then staying in that room, obviously, the final one, A.J. Dylan, I mean, going from this guy is going to fight for a roster spot to all of a sudden he is the emblem for the hubris in the organization and kind of responsible for a bad season. I think that was not what we expected. And I will take another victory lap here and just note that neither of you,

incorrectly so, said Seque Juan Barclay, not because Sequin Barclay didn't have a, like, dramatically worse season statistically than he did last year, but because Seqwan Berkeley wasn't the reason last year either. So I'm glad that you guys recognize that. All right. As you should. With that reach around to pat himself on the back,

we will send you to, Our final ad break. Back with more on the other side talking some thoughts on the offensive coordinator search. Let's talk about Rothman. Whether it's a sore knee, stiff shoulder, or nagging back pain, Rothman Orthopedics is here to help you get your back, you back to the life you love. Their team of specialists treats all kinds of orthopedic issues from everyday strains to long-term joint pain with care that's efficient, effective, and close to home. Rothman proudly serves dozens of communities across Pennsylvania.

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It's a nice conversational feel. Yeah, we've been hanging. Sorry, this is, you know, it's not my job. Like, I'm just here. I don't know how the mic works. We're happy to have you. Speaking of happy to have someone, we're happy to have Julia at PHLY.

Happy birthday, Julia! Yeah! Give it up in the chat for the great. I feel bad now. I saw her and I didn't know it was her birthday. Bad job by you. I mean, how am I supposed to know that it's her birthday? I mean, just pick it up, pick up on the vibe. You don't need to feel bad about it. It's fine.

All right. Yeah. Happy birthday to Julia. A lot of appreciation for Julia on this. I mean, I'll speak for myself. I have a lot of appreciation for Julia. Yeah. OJ. Every Julia.

in my life is a very big addition to my life. Who is the third ranked Julia in your life? That's a good question. Let's see. Sometimes if I'm texting Julia our Julia a lot, she will usurp my Julia in my text order here, which can be a problem. Honestly, I really only have the two Julius.

Okay. And they're both great. Have you ever messed that up? Have you ever sent a text to your Julia? Accidentally two hour Julia? Yes. Nice. I mean, it's nothing.

Nothing major. Lindsay's cracking up over there. I'm not getting in anything. I don't want to know. That's an honest question. Get your mind out of the gutter, Lindsay. Have you ever texted the wrong person or like the person you were talking about? Oh, yeah.

I have, that's happened to me before. It's not great. I feel like at some point, yes. But I've been, I'm, I'm. I am terrified of that, yes. We had a job candidate at my university in Turkey, and we emailed all of the people who applied for the job, who didn't make the first cut, who didn't get an interview.

Just to say, you know, thank you for your application, unfortunately, you know. And one of them hit reply. They must have thought they hit forward to a friend. And they said, wow, if I couldn't even get an interview from here, where am I going to get an interview? That's pretty good. And then there was like a discussion of what to do.

And I was like, obviously we're going to ignore it. It must feel terrible. You're going to like. And other people were like, other people, some of my colleagues were like, we should hit reply and be like, nowhere. You're not going to get an interview for anywhere. That means fear. Yeah, no, I know.

I understand. But they like, they had their feelings served by his reaction. So, yeah. That's very funny. There it is. All right. What do you want to get off your chest about the offensive coordinator search? Well, when I saw Matt Nagy, like when I see some of these uninspired,

kind of retread candidates. The first thing I think is like, look, Kevin Petula was obviously not good, right? And he was below competence level. But I think for some fans, like how bad he was is dictating the optimal amount of like risk to be taken with this higher. And you guys have covered this to some degree. I just want to, I just want to like mention that I agree with you that looking forward, like with a declining slash changing offensive roster, there's a very good chance

that the offensive staff will have to actually add value, right? That, like, competence won't just be enough. And people say, well, Shane Steichen and Kellynne Moore weren't inspired, but, like, they were good enough. Like, yeah, like, 2020, remember, the offense was the strength of the team, almost won the Super Bowl. But it really wasn't like, it's not like, Shane Steichen was a very good play caller in terms of sequencing,

game feel, all of those things. But it wasn't the kind of thing where, like, he had to elevate, like, a roster that wasn't good. Like, it's like the offensive line was, awesome. AJ Brown, like, you know, like an excited AJ Brown who was happy to be here, like added this dimension that Shane Stake and knew how to use. That was great. 24, Kellan Moore, we spent the whole season criticizing the, the tendencies of the offense, like in an unsustainably explosive run game that came from the perfect marriage of an awesome offensive line

and a running back that can make the last guy miss at an elite level, which is what Sequin is, right? Like made it so that the play calling didn't have to be incredible. And maybe Kellan more wasn't even allowed to be himself or whatever. So I'm just fearful that the, just get a competent guy in here, like don't take risks with the young guys camp, is overestimating how good the offensive roster is. Like they're still using their 2024 roster perception

to think about the 2026 roster perception. I'm looking at the up chart right now. I agree with you. It's not obvious to me that this offensive roster isn't just going to be average next year. Well, I think when we first started talking about it, there were a lot of ideal candidates on the board. we are right past that point now yeah so I agree oh yeah yeah I agree like like I was in here last

week saying Mike McDaniel yeah I mean for sure now when it comes to Declan Doyle and it's interesting to see Fran positive about him anecdotally for me the two offenses that played the Eagles this year because those are the games that I like chart every play and I like know exactly how they sequenced everything that I was most impressed with in terms of their their approach to playing a very good Eagles defense yeah go ahead it's going to be the Chicago Bears Yes. And it's going to be the Tampa Bay Bucking. No, it's going to be Denver Broncos. Denver Broncos.

I've talked about those Denver Broncos plays like all season, like the way they used, you know, like Engram to like beat the, you know, beat it, you know. Like those two games, I was very impressed and I talked about it after the game on the show, like with their sequencing, their personnel usage, the going back and forth between run and pass out of the same looks. So Sean Payton and Ben Johnson were both masterful at that. And they're kind of known to be. A guy that's worked with them is a positive, right?

There's no guarantee you're really getting that. But if you're, if you're going to play that game, those are the two people do you want to try to borrow from. Absolutely. Now, negatives. Like, obviously, the nepotism thing, who his dad is, his dad is like an abusive racist, right? Like, that's a negative. That's like not a good thing. Like, it's like, okay, no, no, is he, like,

potentially in that way? Like, like, I need to know that. Like, I need to ask that in the interview. It's like, you know, like, I don't know how to ask that exactly about a guy's dad, but like you have to ask. And then you were talking to, Hogue yesterday, like, and he was like, well, Doyle didn't even install the run game in meetings, which apparently is something that every offense coordinator does. So it's like, that's a little bit of a, you know, right. It opens your eye. That might say more about Ben

Johnson wanting to control things. Right. Then it does about whether he thinks Doyle is, is qualified to do that, right? But like, if he hasn't even done that, it's like, that's one more thing that's going to make Nick think, okay, we brought in this 29 and or 30 year old guy. I'm going to need to like guide him through a bunch of sure right and so that's kind of my thoughts on that so there you go um what do you guys think I mean like if you if you had to say right now like would you rather have Declan Doyle or Joe Brady like a question like those are the two guys Joe Brady we love your dad yes or no do you love your dad there's only one right answer yeah uh if Joe Brady and Declan Doyle are the options I would

choose Joe Brady. It's just a more, it's a safer, more proven candidate. But I do think that, you know, to the points you're making on like the positives with Declan Doyle, I do think that there is, it's a projection, but I would feel, I feel good about what the scheme would look like, specifically the scheme. I am, I am, uh, open to the upside with Declan Doyle. I think one thing that you goes have to think about in terms of the downside to it is something that I will tell you in Bovertime. I don't. think there's any reasonable expectation that you can you can think that deckland doyle who has never called plays before is going to come in and hit the ground running right this is a this is a

play caller who's going to take some seasoning and is going to take some reps and i don't know that this coaching staff has a lot of time to wait for that is it the coaching staff or the is it the organization it's the coaching staff the coaching staff has to maximize for that and the roster is not built for okay, who's going to be the best guy two or three years from now. They need the guy who's going to be the best now, given the age cycle they're in. So, you know, can you tell me that Declan though it's going to be ready for prime time come the playoffs? Maybe. But, you know, you don't have that much time to be patient.

Yeah, well, two things. First, your flashlight's on your phone. I don't know if you know that. Oh, thank you. I don't know how I noticed it, but are you going to do the friend? Yeah. Not so good I don't think you go from under

I think it should be more We've got good lighting in here If Joe Brady is If Joe Brady is the other option Then I agree with you But at some point You were getting to the diminishing return I think that's right

I would rather have I would rather have Declan Doyle Than Cooter and Nagy and Grizzar Yeah Grizzard I don't know You're not true I don't know that I have a

Coaches seem to respect Grizzar That's why I guess it for you I was like Well you do the charting And he had a lot of injuries you can blame the injuries for why they weren't good this year in Tampa. Yeah.

Yeah. The thing you're saying about the organization not having time and the stress that's going to be on the OC to do well right away brings us back to the thing we were saying earlier about, we're looking in the mirror right now, saying why don't they like it? Yeah. Do you feel hurt a little bit? Of course. Everything about this week sucks.

Okay. It's like, it's like one of my students was asking, Professor, are you over your morning? and I was like, are you kidding? Like last week I was able to watch the film. I was able to like do all this active stuff to figure out what went wrong. And this week there's like nothing to do.

We're like we're waiting for all these like, you know, coaches who I'm not even not that excited about like rejecting, you know, rejecting. I think if you list like, and you guys have been through these, but like I'm curious how you think these rank, right? Like there are kind of three things in my opinion that are the main things that I would imagine a lot of candidates. issues with. One is there's the power dynamic, right? You're not really going to be in charge of the offense. There's Nick who's likely to get involved. There's the bigger picture that this is

not a coach-centric organization. Like not even Nick has that much power. Right. And then you're going to be under him. Like so it's like, it's like, you know, Jeffrey and Howie are overlooking things in a closer manner than they would be at other places. It was interesting that when you guys had Mina on, Mina Kimes, this week, she focused so much on the running game. Like I was curious. And I know that's just kind of her thing. Like she cares a lot about the running game. But like, she's like, you know, like, I really want a guy with a creative running game. But like how much of the issue of the attractiveness is the Jeff Stoutland factor? Yeah.

The fact that you're not even going to be able to control the running game necessarily. Like Mike McDaniel is like the running game guy. Yeah. He's probably on the phone being like, well, Stoughton's still going to be there, right? Like, am I even going to be able to do my thing, right? So that's number one. Number two is the worst than perceived roster of stuff that we've already been through. And worse than perceived matters because you're going to get blamed if the team's not good.

Like, it's not like you're going to come in here and be like, like Mike McDaniel's going to L.A., right? Maybe. And he's coaching a team that hasn't won the division since 2009. Like with Norv Turner. That's the last time the Chargers won the division. They haven't won a playoff game in eight years. The quarterbacks never want to play off game at all. They don't even really have fans.

Like, it's like, it's like, you know, like, there's only upside. It's like if he does something good, he's going to be the hero. There's almost no scenario in which like his house is going to get egged, right? Like it's like, that's not a thing. And so I guess, and that's the third thing is like the high expectations, the high passion level. So you guys have talked about this to some degree, but like these things all kind of compliment each other, right? They're not mutually exclusive. It's like the fact that there's high passion and people think the roster's still really good.

And so it's the OC, like it was the OC's fault last year that the team wasn't good. So you better not also be a bum. Right. It's not exactly an appealing thing to walk into, no? I think that's true. I don't think that this is not a question about, This is not an answer to what matters to those candidates. But I will say a year removed,

I don't think that the offensive coordinator will be viewed as the reason. If the team is not good this year. Oh, the shield thing of at least you're following the bad guy kind of thing. Well, in just there was so much continuity. Exactly. Oh, I see. You're right. Like if AJ is gone, people might just say, well, what can he do?

There's no. And no matter what it is, I think it points to Nick. If things go badly this year. That's what true. even if it is, even if he's been granted autonomy to Devin Doyle. The offense is bad enough. It's going to go to Nick. But you're also going to get fired if you're the O.C.?

Well, yes. Probably so. Probably so. Right? Because in what scenario, is the team going to be bad enough that Nick gets fired, but the offense is good enough that you get promoted or something? That's not going to happen. So there's like a,

there's like a scenario where like they're exactly how we expect them to be, but that is short of a championship where Nick could get theoretically, dirt-cuttered, right? You know, there is probably a world where that happens. There's a third door where it's fire the head coach, keep the O.C. I'm not saying it's likely. We're talking like, you know, maybe 7% chance.

The history of the way they like the higher coaches. Unless it's like a Declan Doyle, like really young guy. That's the only way you can see. Yeah, like they're not going to feel enough like they discovered a guy the way they discovered Andy and they discovered Nick. You know what I mean?

Like. So is, the question which is the most which is the biggest deal i guess which of those like do you think all three of those are really contributing or do you think some of them are more myth than than reality i think they're all contributing to some degree i think i think on who you ask for each one i think yeah they all are a factor right now i i think the fan pressure thing is probably the one that is overblown the most in terms of why people might not take this job.

Like the house getting egg type stuff? Yes. I think it has much more to do with the building and the and the roster, but the people that you'd have to work with every day. Yeah, I agree. And everybody knows enough people that have worked here that they're going to be able to know. Just think about like the coaching circles are small. So no matter who it is,

Kellyn Moore is a phone call away. Brian Johnson is a phone call away. Kevin Petulow was a phone call away. Sean Desai is a phone call away. And oh, by the way, like Doug Peterson is a phone call away. The coaches that, and I'm not saying that there's tons of coaches, but the coaches that have had negative interactions with people in the Eagles building even without working in the building.

Right. You know, like, oh yeah, Nick Siriani, curse me out. Like after the game or, you know, we're just like, you know, like you said, these circles are only so big. It's a very good point. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah. Nick told me to eat his ass after the game we lost. We are both times. Yeah, I can't wait to go work for that guy. Zach Gertz is a bunk all the way or two. Zach Gertz is a phone call away.

I pled for that guy, man. So, yeah, I don't know. It's tough. The upside is, it's hard because and Shane's like in both got had coaching jobs,

right? The picture Howie Roseman conversation, right? Howie is, is probably the best general manager. in football. And he is, he is wired in a way that he cares about every little thing and is maniacal about it. And that is part of what makes him great. Could he be nicer and still as maniacal about those things? Probably. But that's not, that's not the way he operates. And so, I don't know, people come and go. They tell stories. Like, I don't know. That's a real thing.

Yeah. No, it's tough. Like, like, if you, Where do you want to go to work every day? Not everybody has a choice. And of course, you know, probably the salary is the most important thing for these people. But, you know, all things being equal, do you want to go a place where you have a slightly better chance to win? But your life is going to be a little bit less fun. I don't know enough about salary variance. Yeah.

With, with, which is ridiculous. Remains, right? How do we not know that? Salaries are not, even just head coach salaries are not publicly available. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. unless they really want to tell you, like John Harbaugh.

Yeah. Can I just play like devil's advocate just for a second? Please, yeah. I do think that a lot of what we're talking about, I just think this is an important thing to bring up in the discussion about like the Eagles organization being a spectacle to some degree. It's that way because they've been successful.

I think that that is like the only thing, just in the interest of fairness I want to put out there, is that why do, like, why are league circles talking about how bizarre some elements of the Eagles building are because of the fact that they win so much. That's true. And and because they won so much, Howie has been there for a long time. Yeah, there's a lot of people who have worked in the building. Got a lot of sort out of the building. Right? Like, uh, you know, uh, Monty Austin Fort is probably running a terrible organization,

but he's only been there for two years, three years. Like yeah, you know, nobody's trying to, nobody's trying to, you know, come to come to Arizona and hot shot to a head coaching. The collection of this, Grunold former. Yeah. colleagues is never grows, right, when you leave that fast. It's interesting to hear these different perspectives from people who are connected in the league about how appealing this job is, right? Like, like, Mina Kimes told you guys, like, yeah, I think it's like, you can leapfrog to head coach. Greg Olson spent like an entire podcast with Kelsey's talking about what an appealing job it is. And then Diana Rusini on WIP, she's asked, is this an appealing job? And she just

flat out said, no. Yeah. It is not appealing. Like, why would you want this job? Another one where it depends on who you talk to. Yeah. And we haven't talked to people who have talked much about the jail and part of it. I don't know. I don't know how that plays into it. And that's another one where you're going to call the people who have worked with him. You know, I hear from people that jailing's great to work with.

Right. I hear from other people who don't think that. So, you know, I don't know. I think this is all, we've talked about a lot of themes today that, like, back this up, which is that, like, a media literacy lesson here. Yeah. Like, none of these things are absolutely. absolutes, you know? Like none of these things are, well, this, these people or, you know,

this reporter said that Jalen is difficult to work with. So therefore, it is unimpeachable that he is difficult to work with or vice versa. Like, it really is. That's why when you ask the question, I said, I think it depends on who you ask. Some people will say, I don't want to work there because of Nick. Some people say, I don't want to work there because of the front office structure. Some people will say, I don't want to work with Jalen. I think all of them are real. You know, Not to say that they are all correct, but again, it's perspective, you know. Yeah, with the guy like Declan Doyle, I think Jalen becomes a bigger question, right? Like, because if you bring in a guy who's basically his age, if he already has a reputation of like saying,

no, I want the offense to look the way I want to look, right? Like, how is it going to be with a guy his age? That is where it's like, how much do you trust the Eagles ability to answer those questions before they make the higher? Do you trust them to have a good feel for that or not? Right. No, that's right. I also do think we are, we're probably making a little bit too much of it because really the only thing, this all comes down to, Dable preferring the Titans. Like the McDaniel thing, you get.

Oh, you're saying the attractiveness not being high. Yeah. Like, presumably they offered the, they would have offered the job to Dable. That's the only one where you're like, they didn't, they didn't get their men and I don't really understand why. The McDaniel thing, I understand taking L.A. even if even if it's not the quarterback there's more security there and he still wants a head coaching job right yeah uh everything else is like i don't know did did they really did they really whiff on anybody

the day ball one is the one that's the one that i see people who are i think i think mcdaniel's real too i don't think it's obvious that you would prefer the charger i understand it i get yeah not so like but the fact that you get it speaks to what we're talking about like you get it because of these things yeah but i think even even objectively like it's it's a rational take for someone to think that they would rather work for Justin Herbert they would rather work for Jim Harba because he has more security and it's less of a like toxic building but that's the point yeah no I know I'm not saying he's being irrational

I'm saying that like the reason you think it's rational I also don't think it's real outside of expectations I don't think anybody expected Brian Dale would I see what I see what you're saying I think it's the passing of time that's doing it to some degree. Now, it might be worth remembering. Kellan Moore got hired on, I think it was the Saturday before the championship games. So we're right at the point now. Yes.

And it was the same round that they lost in the playoffs. So I guess it was like, what, a day later because it was a Monday night game. But like, it was basically around now. But that year was there was that whole delay with the presser and the, there was another snow store. It's all it's back to the snow store. No one's going to be able to travel. Now they're going to say like, well, because of the snow. We weren't able to get guys in.

I think the fact that this is like not a head coach-centric place, but the head coach is in place is making a lot of fans say things like, well, this is the problem with having Nick here is like you can't attract a guy. And for me, that's just like, look, if you enjoyed the Super Bowls, like if you enjoyed being in two of the last three Super Bowls and you enjoyed winning one of them, like you can't turn around now and be like, I don't like the way the team is run. Like it's like it's the team's decision

to not have the head coach be the main guy. It's the team's decision to be run a certain way and it's worked pretty well. Yeah. Like the last two head coaches are our guys whose personalities are not, I'm going to come in and take over the building. That was by design.

Both of them once like literally won the Super Bowl. Like you can't then turn around and be like because you didn't get your favorite OC for this reason. Like oh, this is the problem with Nick like fire Nick. Like like to me, that part is not, that part's going too far with this. I think that's fair. We live with this now because like this is the way the team has run and it's and it's brought

a lot of success and it hasn't, it's not like the success has stopped. Like the worst years we've had in the last like four years are 11 win wildcard, you know, like the thing that these coaches were getting hired now are going to be striving for is like the worst season we ever have around here. Like that's just like it's something to remember. I think that's fair. But I also think that the way that they're going to evaluate it internally is, how are they going to give themselves

the best chance to succeed moving forward? And I also think it's fair to say that it seems like it's a harder needle to thread between Nick and Jalen than it used to be in terms of figuring out how to navigate a productive offense with Nick's preferences and Jalen's preferences. But do you think the next head coaching hire,

let's fast forward, let's say this year's a disaster and they blow it all up? Yeah. Do you really think they're going to be looking for the next Andy Reid? Are they going to be looking for the next Nick Siriani? And not in or let's say you know what you know what I'm saying like in terms of how much power the guy's going to demand coming in the door I think it's a good question and I'm probably I probably don't have the answer I mean they probably don't have the answer

I think they're looking for the next seriani I think they're that they're going to be looking for the next seriani but as an offensive play caller I don't think that they would I think they would say we can't what they thought syriani was right yeah but I think but when you think about the next seriani I think that it would be with the condition, we need someone that we feel strongly about remaining as a play caller, especially if you're moving forward with Jalen. Yeah. That's presuming that Howie's still here. I would say Jeffrey probably feels like coaching staffs are more fungible than, you know,

the difference between a great head coach and an average head coach is less impactful than the difference between a great GM and an average GM. Yes. Yeah. We have an expression in Turkish. I haven't done a Turkish expression in a while. We have an expression in Turkish that's if you burn your tongue from milk, then when you blow on yogurt before you eat it.

And what that means doesn't translate well at all. What it means is like if you burned your tongue from like actual hot milk, like you're so careful eating everything that even when you're eating yogurt, you blow on it just to make sure you don't. And I think for Chip, for Jeffrey Lurie, like Chip Kelly is the ultimate example of that. Like, it's like he's never going to let a coach take over his team again. Oh, I don't agree with that. After Chip Kelly.

You don't think so? I don't agree with that. No, I think he would love the NDREED model if he had that guy. It's harder to find. He's just, he's just, he's just like understands they're very rare. Yeah. I'm not sure. All right.

All right. Good big picture conversation on the PHLA Eagles podcast. Thanks to everybody for watching. We're going to be, we're going to be home on Monday, giving you a little snowed in. remote episode of the P.H.I. Eagle show. People in the chat asking about the milk, it's common to drink warm or hot milk

in Turkey. So that's like why the expression makes more sense. Old guys especially will just go to the cafe and drink hot milk. Hot milk. They'll just order hot milk. I respect it? I mean, sure. I respect it. I respect most things. It's like hot chocolate without the chocolate. You're just drinking

hot milk. Super chats. I can't read that one. But the question is, pitch E.J. Appreciation Day. Why can't you read it? Kate Gait went too far. I couldn't read the name. Tim? I don't know how you read this.

I don't know how you read it. Yeah, let's go with that. Love this guy. Now I'm uncomfortable. Cory Sito. E.J. from which Turkish club did Tammy join Villa? Shout to Corey. Turkish pronunciation. You did well yesterday.

Fenarabacha. Fanarbaucha. Oh, man. I did okay. Okay, all right, let's see if I can go two for two. Tammy Abraham played most recently for Besiktas? It's a, the S at the end is also a she. Beshiktash.

It's pretty good. Yeah, Ashiktash. Villa beat Fenarabace yesterday. Good, good. That's our, I'm a Goltaxai fan. It does seem like the Turkish league's like atmospheres are elite, like some of the best. More elite than the, than the play on the, on the fields for sure. You guys have some giants there?

When is that, when is that playoff game for the? the World Cup? March 21st and 28th, I think. Okay, yeah. Kind of close. Zach Trauma. Why hasn't anyone discussed Doug Peterson as an O.C. candidate? I remember some discussion of bringing him in as a consultant midseason. That would be the ultimate, like Doug, Doug coming in just to mess things up. Just to money, the waters, just to get everybody to, that would be a lot of fun.

I can't. That doesn't. No, that doesn't seem. There seems to be. In zero, the first incomplete pass, the crowd would be chanting Doug as head coach. Like, like fire Nick, 100%. Why do you think Doug? Why do you think Doug is so much more beloved than Nick given? I think it's because of the personalities.

I mean, like obviously Nick has won way more games. They've both won a Super Bowl. Nick's been to another one. He's never missed the playoffs. He famously has the best win percentage of any head coach alive, which is a funny thing to just casually say. But it's true. Yeah, it's the personality, right?

Like, yeah. You never, you never said, they're not talking anymore. Not so much anymore. I mean, it makes a difference. Joe Rockhead. First, happy birthday, Julia. Julia. Julia.

B, any chance Nicobi Dean is going to Dallas now that Christian Parker is there? Hmm. It's a chance, yeah. Yeah, I'd be more worried about like, Reed Blankens. in that scenario. Yeah. Someone who's very familiar with. That's a good one.

With Christian Parker and the secondary. I've said before on the show that, like, guys in that secondary say that Reed is really key to getting them, getting them the calls that they need and, like, getting, organizing, I guess directing traffic on the back end there. If you're the Eagles and you know right now that you can only sign one of the following two players that's going to be at market value, Jalen Phillips, read Blankenship. Oh, that's a good question. I think I

I think I just ever so slightly go read just because of Jalen Phillips's injury history. Yeah, I do. I do figure that whoever signs Jalen Phillips is not going to get the bank for their buck to get their value unless you can convince him to do like a one year, you know, pay a premium for a one year prove it type deal.

Yeah. But yeah. They went into last year thinking having Nolan Smith and Jail Excent was good enough, found out middle of the year it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah, man, that is a good question. If you don't bring back Jalen Phillips, like are you addressing that high in the draft?

You probably can't. I mean, you have so many holes on offense. That's the thing. Prioritize. That's the thing. Man, that is difficult. That's really different. I also think the idea of Reed to the Cowboys probably puts the kibosh on exciting mics.

I don't know about that. I feel like Reed could go somewhere else, but that would be an unbelievable, like talk about polarizing the fan base. if you were to do that. Yeah. You can't have a cross, like a Dallas player and an Eagles player on the same podcast

like every week? I mean like Pat Sertanan and Terry on Arnold, I know they're not division rivals. Yeah, but I think they can do it on different teams for sure. I don't know. I feel like there's just some random team.

There's probably an example of a player doing a podcast with a division rival out there that we're not familiar with. There are a lot of player podcasts out there. So I don't know. I would hope not. Me too.

What do you think Vic would say. I think would probably go with Reed, right? He'd want to read just because he runs the show. He's so edge rusher agnostic. Every time you ask him about edge rushers or sacks, he's just like, you guys care about that stuff. Breaking news from my buddy Mike.

Oh, you scared me. You really scared me. This is a big one. Just saw Zach Bonn at my Home Depot. Oh. Zach Bonn or the other Zach? Like, are you being? No, Zach Bonn.

Okay, I wasn't. I was not even the accident. Zach Bonn, go ahead, sorry. Well, Mike listens to every show. Love Mike. Great guy. Fortunately, he spelled Zach with an H. Okay.

I mean, it might have been not correct. Probably not writing Zach Bonn as much as we are. Also, just could be just saying, I need him to know when he listens to this out on. We drive a Honda accord. And, well, no, so here's the thing. like everyone and I always watch the Eagles little, you know, social media videos from the locker room. And in one of those,

Zach Bonn has asked, what would you do if you got, you know, if you just got like a million dollars or something like that? Mm-hmm. Which is a very funny question to ask people who like have a million dollars. But anyway, like Zach Bond goes,

I'm not much of a money guy. I drive a Honda Accord. And when he said that, now you might know that he drives something else. Hey, maybe he has a Honda. I was going to say, okay, okay. But he does.

I was wondering if that's the only car he has. If I recall, he does drive like a sensible, like economically sound car. He literally said Honda Accord, though. Like, I'm sure about this. He probably owns two different cars that are both. Everyone was like, everyone was like running across the house being like, Zach Bonn also has a Honda Accord. You know, like so.

Yeah, I feel like that's. I remember seeing him driving something. And I was like, oh, that's like a very responsible, like financially responsible car to drive if you were a millionaire. Right. Right. It wasn't a Honda Accord. When we get into our car.

now everyone ever and everyone says i'm not much of a money guy i drive a honda car yeah yeah exactly that quote do you think it's uh maybe i shouldn't talk about players car choices what do you think i'm genuinely asking you should i talk about should i should i should i is that like sacred i feel like everyone used to know because there were more cameras in like the area i'll say it i won't say that the make of the car out of respect but a j is like famous for driving a honda accord to games right like he's like well known he's gone viral for oh a j's very sensible to He drives the Honda according to the games. He drives one of the nicest cars you could ever buy.

Like not to games. It's at the NovaCare complex every single day. I won't say what car it is out of respect for the privacy. He drives just and it's a really nice car and we see it all the time. It's parked up front. Yeah. Like yeah, he drives a really nice car every day. What do you think it is about games that makes him choose the other car?

Well, the one time it was snowing. So maybe he doesn't like to drive his very nice car in the snow, which respect, understand. but yeah I think it maybe is just like I don't know I don't want to call him out for like a performative thing but he probably has a car he likes to drive you know as like a beater sure and then he has like his nice car that he takes care of so there's nothing wrong with it I just think it's funny with you like oh man he's smart with his money you know he doesn't spend money on cars

sure sure now he's got some nice cars all right good stuff that'll do it for this episode of the p. H.L.I. Eagles podcast Thank you, Fran for joining us. Thank you, Mike, for the breaking news. We'll go ahead and say it was autocorrect on the Zach. I feel like the autocorrect is getting worse, just like every other piece of technology. Thank you, Lindsay.

Thank you, Professor. Happy birthday to Julia. Most of all, E.J., we appreciate you. It's worse when you do this. I mean, it's like, I don't know, it makes me uncomfortable. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate the chat.

I'm fine. everything's good AJ I've had a lot of fun with you this week are you guys gonna be here next Friday I hope so I don't know when you're traveling no no there's two weeks of the Super Bowl never mind

will there be a higher by next Friday like next Friday are we talking about the new OC or are we still yeah I think so you think so okay you think there will be a higher by next time I agree I was okay I thought you said

we were still going to be talking about this whether it has been announced or I don't know the heavily rumors conference But yes, I think we will know by next Friday who the Eagles offensive coordinator is. Yeah, yeah and maybe from a losing team this weekend Perhaps yeah that's one since one that's one of the things to

Look out for right she'll house so you think she'll house she'll have me the me Jake Pete's Davis web Thomas Brown she'll house is the one that I think would make sense I mean we were not as the way the Eagles foolish on that but people really wanted him even at the beginning. Yeah. Said he would be one of the best candidates. Based on the reported interview so far, the Eagles have not yet satisfied their Ruey Rule.

They have to interview two. They have to interview two, right? Does McDaniel count? Or does it count as an interview? Yeah. No, no, no, does it count as an interview? I mean, yeah. Hmm, that's a good question.

I mean, it was a virtual interview, so. Okay. I think so. Yeah, I would suspect that counts. Yeah. But yeah, I don't think they had anybody else. Yeah, and then the year, they hired Brian Johnson, that's when they talked to Sheelhaus.

And we didn't find that out until the combine. That was a late one. That's all we got. Talk to you guys on Monday. Enjoy the weekend. Stay warm. Stay fed. Stay with your power.

Stay powered up. Make sure you have good food, not just cheeses. As always, we love you. city like the mayor