PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Postmortem: Jalen Hurts, Kevin Patullo & what comes next after a disappointing end

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

It’s locker room cleanout day for the Eagles after an ugly end to the season in a home loss to the San Francisco 49ers. How did Jalen Hurts, Jordan Davis, A.J. Brown, Brandon Graham and the rest of the Eagles react to the end of their pursuit for a Super Bowl repeat? How did Kyle Shanahan outfox Vic Fangio? Fran Duffy, EJ Smith and Bo Wulf unpack a busy day in Eagles world. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

An important day at the Novacare Complex as the players cleaned out their lockers and spoke to the media for the final time of the 2025 season. We'll tell you what Jalen Hertz said, what it means for Kevin Butulo, Nick Siriani, and the rest of the team coming up next with E.J. Smith, Fran Duffy, and myself, stay tuned. Infinity Studio and presented by Bet365 and Ashley. Appreciate everybody. Staying with us for a changed show time here. 5 o'clock, we moved it in order to be at the locker room cleanout day at the Novacare Complex, EJ and I talk to a bunch of players, we'll tell you about that. Fran, nice to see you. How's everybody doing? How are the Eagles fans in your life handling the day after the season

is over? I would say it's a good mix of anger and disappointment. I thought there would be a little bit more, honestly, of like the relief that some of us have talked about in the media, like in terms of like coverage of like, oh, you know, like, I don't have to watch this team. It hasn't, that has, it's been more disappointment and anger today. We'll see if that changes over the course of the week, but I would say those are the two words that sum it up. I would say like disappointment is the first one. It's almost like the season ended in a whimper in a way where it's like, ah, man, like you

sort of throw your hands up. But then I also think that anger, anger is a. correct but I'll go a step further like righteous vindication you know it's like we told them that this was going to be an issue we knew all season that it's going to be you know this is the thing that would get them and it got

them in the biggest moment and like that's like validating but it's also inferior there there was nothing that would that makes you angrier than being convinced to believe in something that you don't really believe in and then like the the curtain

dropping from that right you're like I I knew it. I knew that this wasn't for real. And yeah, that's like a very normal feeling. But then once that feeling subsides, you just have the disappointment, right? Yeah. Stuff.

You said it well last night on the postgame show. Like, shame on me for thinking that this offense was going to be able to pull it out. And they were going to, you know, the tiger's going to change its stripes. And clearly they just were not up to that challenge. Julia, how about you? You are the biggest Eagles fan here.

How have you done today? I mean, surprisingly, I'm not, I'm not, super, super devastated, probably because of listening to you guys. But I mean, it just sucks. Win the Super Bowl last year. You can have that perspective. I'm still routing off with that. I feel like I was more upset by like the end of the Phillies season than the end of this

equal season. Makes sense. There's probably also an element where, although we're going to talk about this, there's a feeling that the window is still open for this team. Maybe. Yeah, I think we're going to get into that. And I'm glad you brought the Phillies, Julia, because we will talk a little baseball on what it means for Jalen Hertz.

coming up in a little bit. But let's start with the big takeaway presented by Xfinity. And I think it's understandable that everybody's sights today were set on Kevin Petulow and whether the Eagles are going to make a change there. And obviously, players in the locker room were asked about that. So let's tell you what a few of them said, including Jalen Hertz. And what did he say, EJ. Smith, when asked directly about Kevin Petulah. Yeah, so I always think these are big moments in these locker room clean-out sessions

when Jalen Hertz is asked about a coach that is under heavy scrutiny because he has a lot of, obviously a lot of sway, a lot of influence, but also his words carry a lot of weight, and he's very careful in the words he chooses to use. So with that qualification, here's what he said when asked if he wants Kevin Petullo back as offensive coordinator. He said it's too soon to think about that. I put my trust in Howie, Nick, and Mr. Lori.

So two things end out to me with this quote. The first is that obviously Jalen has talked a lot about, the importance of continuity, the importance of having the same voice, and this is a departure from that, very clearly. It's also a very, like, pointed non, it's not a vote of confidence for Kevin Petullo, right? And it's not only that. Which he also did not give him last year at this time. Right, exactly. It's not only that he didn't give a vote of confidence for Kevin Petullo as he is, you know, kind of twisting in the win here. To me, it's like, this is also kind of an opportunity for him to just say something nice about the guy on, like, as he is.

is about to take the ball. That's true. You know what I mean? Like this is... That's true. And take it for however you will. I'm not criticizing Jalen for this. I just think it was telling that it wasn't even like a, you know,

him and I have worked together for a long time. You know, we have a great relationship. Yeah. There was not even like, there wasn't even that element to it. You know, maybe it wasn't, I didn't expect him to come out and have a strong, you know, defense for Kevin Petulow, given the way that the season went. But even just like a little bit of like a pat on the back or something, I think it was telling.

It's a really good point because I think everybody in that locker room senses that that is the direction it is going. Sure. We'll tell you what Sequin Barclay said, for instance. Sequin Barclay essentially said, you know, he understands that someone's going to have to take a fall. He said, you have to point the finger at one person. That's what you guys have to do in your job, speaking about the media. Somebody's got to catch the blame, especially when we had the season we had the year before. Do I think that's fair?

No, I don't think that's fair at all, but he understands how this works. And I think you're right about, you know, he could say something nice on the back end. I get why he doesn't do that, I guess. But it is, you know, it's true. Like, if the Eagles do, in fact, move on from Kevin Petulow, just like Press Taylor became a punching bag,

but we should also remember that Press Taylor is the guy who gave us the Philly Special, right? you know, Kevin Batula was a part of the offensive staff that helped deliver a Super Bowl and two Super Bowl appearances. That's true. But it also maybe means that, you know, this was not the job for him. To a lesser degree, you could say the same about Brian Johnson, too. Right. I mean, Jalen Hertz's MVP caliber season comes with Brian Johnson as his quarterback's coach, but he is also a punching bag. You know, the picture of Kevin Petulah and Brian Johnson's faces, like kind of transparent in the background with each other. Like, you know, that is the existence

of the first year play callers for the Eagles the last few years. What about you, friend? Do you from the outside have a sense? Do you think there's any chance that that's not the direction they go at offensive coordinator? I can't imagine a world where that doesn't happen. I think it's just the nature of it. That said, like, you know, I was kind of thinking about it since we had the, you know, the later show today, had more time to like kind of sit and stew after and just thinking about

things. Yeah, how do you feel about a 5 p.m. or? I don't mind a 5 p.m.er. Okay. I'm going to, now the thing is that I won't be able to go home to this day. Yeah, that's that'll be the one little different thing. But having more time to think about it, I feel pretty strongly, and we've said it all season, that this is not, it's not solely a Kevin Patuolo problem.

I know. And when I look at the issues of this past game and I look at the issues of this offense, yes, there are elements of it. You talk about like play sequencing and things of that nature. You're like, yeah, I'm putting that on the play caller. And it's a first time play caller and first time play callers have those kinds of issues. that said, a lot of the issues with the passing game are the issues that were that plagued the passing game last year

and two years ago and three years ago. And so while he has been the past game coordinator, there have been a lot of voices involved in that operation over the last four years. And obviously the two central ones being the head coach and being the quarterback. And so I do think that those guys shoulder a lot of this blame as well. And so if they do make that move at offensive coordinator

and do make that move at play caller, whoever that new person is, to me, like they have to kind of carry a heavy hammer when it comes to final say and what the offense is going to look like and, you know, all the different bells and whistles that are going to be associated with that. And if it doesn't match what that person's identity was at their previous stop, I do think it's going to be pretty telling. But again, it's the fifth iteration of this offense here, sixth iteration of this offense here in 2026.

That's something that we're going to spend time talking about later in the week, probably for the weeks to come, but I just want to get this out there because it's been front of mind for me as we talk about how do the Eagles fix this offensively, is an offensive coordinator, the solution on its own, I feel like it's just such a tough needle to thread. When the coach has a philosophy that he has and the quarterback has philosophy and we can just be honest, limitations in some areas that make it harder for you to just run any scheme. Do I think that like, oh, Jalen hurts, you have to run the offense a certain way because of him? I'm not going that far, but I do think we have enough evidence to show that it's not as simple

as bring in Mike McDaniel and he runs his offense. I also don't think it's as simple as like yes, no, you know, because I know there are some people out there like in the media. They're like, this is a, this is definitely Jalen Hertz. And it's only Jalen Hertz's problem. Like, this is a jail. Yeah. That's not the case.

Like, I don't think it's, because to me, like, we've seen him run a better offense. It's up to the, it is up to the coaches to get their players to be able to play to the level of their ceiling, right? And it is a two-way street. It's not just on Jalen. It's not just on Nick. It's not just on Petulow. But to me, like the combination together, like that is an issue.

And I think the most damning thing he said about Kevin Petulow, Jalen Hertz, was when he was asked about the game yesterday. And he was specifically asked about that final play, which you broke down, which was the worst play call for that situation. And Jalen said something to the effect of, we felt like we were seeing it pretty clearly. Like the quarterback, the offensive line, everybody on the field, essentially saying, like, we knew what we were getting.

And we still felt a step behind. It was the third time they ran the play on the drive, the third time into that coverage, all three times. After the time out. Yeah. So like hearing that, like, yeah, that is very damning. Have you seen the clip?

I'm sure you guys saw the clip of like Nick Siriani, Jalen Hertz, and Kevin Petuller talking before that play. And there just is like a level of like uneasiness. Like I don't think, just like I don't want to over attribute it, but it did seem like there was some uncertainty in that group that was concerning. Or I guess telling is probably a better word for it. Because presumably, I mean, it's, it was bad. It was bad yesterday. It's been bad all season. I mean, tell us as you, well, let's close out on the big takeaway.

we will get to more of this big picture discussion, especially as it relates not just to Potulo, but Siriani. But while we're here, I mean, did it feel like the Niners did anything differently or unexpected on defense to make that performance happen? No, I said it to E.J., I texted E.L. I was like, as I wrote this down, because him being a big music guy,

I'm like, oh, he'll enjoy this. Watching the offense yesterday was like watching the worst band you've ever heard in your entire life has one final show, one final blowout. They get to play in front of millions and millions of people, and they played all the hits. Literally, like, everything could imagine. And you can go right down, like opening drive.

RPO, the timing with Dallas Goddard's off, and, you know, and that's a mess. Fourth and two, empty outrout to Devante Smith. The D.B. reads the whole way because they've run that time and time again. Repeat plays from the first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth quarter. I told you they ran the same four verts three times in that final drive.

They ran other plays. multiple times on that final drive. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Jaylen changing the play at before the snap and guys pointing all over the place going late in the play clock. Horific third down dropback pass game. Isoball fades, low percentage throws where you're just counting on guys to win. Third and long empty set. Double chips against both defensive ends against the worst past Russian football. In football. The worst past Russian football. You can't count on Milata and Fred Johnson to win one-on-one against these guys. So now you're doing that to just open up for three curl routes all short of the sticks

and they don't convert. Like literally, oh, all right, we talked about that. Killer penalties on third down, on second and long, false starts, no semblance of an intermediate pass game. The QB bailing the pocket

in the second half, leaving potential throws on the table, like all the things we've talked about all season long showed up. It was literally like just one final call. Encore, concor, we got four verts one more time.

Right, the run game, the run game just running into a brick wall, like over and over. They have second and long. Second and 20. Yeah, we'll call it run. Second and 18. Call a run.

Third and, third and, yeah, we're going to run quarterback draw. Like, yeah, exactly all the things we've been saying. That's why I'm not drawing anything today

because it's literally all the things we've talked about for the last three months. Frank came in before the show and E.J. He was like, Fran, do you get a haircut? You could tell. He could just tell he looks good.

And it's not, he didn't get a haircut. He's just unburdened. He doesn't have to watch this offense anymore. from the Eagles past game clips. That really happened, by the way. That was a real conversation. All right, let's clip that for social.

Let's take a quick break to hear from some sponsors. On the other side, we'll get more into what Jalen Hertz had to say today and what it means, big picture. So the other morning, getting the three kids to school, jumble as always. Then I've got to come in, do the Brandon Graham show. Unblocked, check it out.

And what happens? I need a little food. So what do I do? You know exactly what I did. I went to Wawa, got myself, I actually tried something for the first time, the sizzly burrito. I get a handheld, why you're driving? I mean, what can be better than that? Delicious. And guess what? Guess what deal I took advantage of? The wonderful deal going on at Wawa from 5 to 11 a.m. where you can get any sizzly

and any size, hot or iced coffee, and a hash brown for just $5. What could be more convenient, more delicious than that? No need to overthink breakfast. Just grab, go, and get on with your day. If you need something sweet, you can also try the new caramel and chocolate craze flavors for any kind of coffee you want. Make it happen. Gotta have a Wawa. I got to tell you about our friends at Xfinity. What if you could have reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi and what if you could keep that price the same for five whole years? That's the Xfinity five-year price guarantee. Again, it's Wi-Fi that makes everything in your home work together.

They find fixes and fix problems before you even notice them like super intelligent Wi-Fi with a six cents. And then it lets you stream the game even when your whole family is online. your devices are working perfectly in perfect harmony for five whole years. And here's the best part. No annual contracts, no hidden fees, and Xfinity's best equipment already included in the deal. Take it from me. A lot can change in five years. Championships are won. Records are broken. Dreams grow bigger, but your Wi-Fi, that should stay reliable and the price should stay put. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities with Xfinity. Learn more at Xfinity.com.

Xfinity. Imagine that. Select plan. only restrictions apply all right back on the p hos y eagles podcast let's get back to jalen hertz's comments today and this was very clearly the message that he wanted to get across you know he's always coming into this one with a thought and this is where the baseball comes in because what he said julia if you flash up our second graphic he says i'd speak more so on having a home base of what we do and who we are obviously we really made an effort to establish an along the way. Ultimately, it was a bit too late. And, you know, he said a lot of different things, but ultimately to the effect, E.J, of we never really had an identity. And it's the same thing

you're talking about, Fran, like they never figured out who they were. And big picture, what he is trying to get across is that, you know, it's not just the turnover on a long offensive coordinator. And he's had to learn different offenses and different play callers. It is they have never had what it is that they do, what it is that is their bread and butter. And so it was clear that he was saying, he was coming off having this conversation with presumably Howie and Jeffrey, right? Yeah. What do you make of that big picture? I mean, I do think that Jaylon's going to want to have more influence on what they do with the staff. But I think, to me, I agree with you. I mean, the thing that stood out to me was the home base, like being his, like, the driving point.

So you're saying that he came out of that meeting having harped on home base. That's what I think. That was my understanding. I think that's a fair read. And I think if you are Jeffrey Lurie, and you're hearing that, how do you guarantee that you're going to have, if you want to give him that, if that is your priority, which it might not be. But if you want to give Jalen Hertz a home base on offense, something that he can know is his offense, that's not going to happen with Nick Siriani as the head coach and the revolving door of offensive coordinators.

There's no, you know, there's no Vic Fangio of offense, a guy who's going to come in and just be here forever, because if they're good enough on offense, they're going to get a head coaching job, right? And so, like, you know, this is not me advocating for moving on from Nick Siriani. But if your only goal was to have an offensive identity that you could give this quarterback to, have, to know that this is what you do moving forward,

you would need to hire an offensive head coach who has his own system. Right. And I will be curious to see, I mean, I don't know if it'll become obvious, but I will be curious to find out who Jalen has in mind for these types of things. Because he did, he talked about, you know, he said, I think overall my line is always open when asked about his potential influence on this, on potential coaching changes. and I just I don't really know who he would envision for that type of role.

Yeah, it's a good question. Where my head initially goes, though, is we've all, like, there's been reporting on this and there's, you know, like different, like, former players have spoken about this and, you know, analysts have spoken about this all over the spectrum. You can say that you want, like, I want someone to come in and I want, I want this identity, but you also, like, you have to, like, you know, are you going to accept that identity? Yes. So if a coach comes in and says, like, hey, we want to make this change, this change, this change, this change, this change.

You can't then say, oh, but I really, this is the way I want to play. Sure. And, you know, Jeffrey Lurie, like, Jeffrey Lurie is in the building. Not every owner is in the building as regularly as Jeffrey Lurie is. So Jeffrey knows, like, you know, I would say as close to the truth as anybody's going to know about what that dynamic has been like, not just this year, but last year, the year before that, and the year before that. So, yes, while you're having those conversations, like Jeffrey understands, you know, going in and coming out of those meetings, like, all right, like, what is that going to look like moving for

when we bring a new coach into the building? Well, and listen, the flip side to that is, if it is the opposite, where it is like that, where, you know, Jalen Hertz is bristling about ways that the offense can get better. Yep. And, you know, some of the reports that you hear about, well, you know, the reason that the offense is like this

is because they're hamstrung, because, you know, Jalen can't do this and Jailen can't do that. If they think that in the building, then they should. should move on. They should trade him. That's what they should do. And what is what is, it is an inflection point for them this off season from the standpoint of Jeffrey has to decide who it is that he is trying to maximize is, is this Jalen Hertz's team? And if so, how do we put a team around Jalen Hertz that is going to be successful for the next

four years? If it is Nick Siriani is our guy, okay, what do we do to surround Nick with the the coaching staff he help he needs and then go from there with the roster. If it is just the strength of the roster and maybe we need to completely blow it up but the you know the foundation of the young good players on this team is enough that we can move on from everybody fine.

But like this is a, Jeffrey has to decide who is the most important person what is he maximizing? And then all the decisions after that come from there. And the last time that I can think of where you, the dynamics have come to a head this way. It was 2020.

I actually think no. I think it's 2014. Hmm. Where it's, you have, where it's Chip Kelly and Halle-Rosman. Okay. And obviously you make a decision there.

Yeah. But you keep out of everything. Yeah, you keep Howard right now. That's not on the table. I really, so you think if this could be like a, okay, this is what Nick says he wants. But see, to me,

it's funny because they're coming off of the Super Bowl. It's a little different. But letting Nick hire Petulow, in that sense is a little bit like giving chip personnel control. It's like, okay, you say you want this and you can handle this. I'm going to give you a chance to do it. If it fails, that's on you. It's a little different, though, because I do think you, like, with the chip personnel control thing,

you couldn't really put the toothpaste back in the tube. And this is not that situation. At least we don't think it is. At least we don't think it. It's untenable that Nick would bristle at the idea of having organizational influence on the potential next offensive coordinator. I actually, I like the comparison to 2014, though, because they're getting to a position. I might push back on like the idea that they have to make this decision now.

Of course. Yeah, I agree with that. But I also, I think the comparison that I like is that they're in a position where one of the decisions, they're going to have to choose a side that makes them make a crazy decision if that makes sense. Yeah. It's either going to be shocking because you move on from Howard Roseman or shocking because you move on from Chip Kelly in a Jalen Hertz, Nick Siriani type of fit. framing here. It's like you, like, it sounds crazy that you would move on from a head coach

that's coming off of a Super Bowl. It sounds crazy you'd move on from a quarter of it's coming off of a Super Bowl. How many turkeys would you put on Nick Siriani is still the head coach, Jalen Hertz is still the quarterback, and A.J. Brown is still in the team week one. Oh, like they all have to be. All three are still here. I mean, like 15. I don't know. I don't know. That's crazy. That's crazy. Well, if you took A.J. out of that. If you took AJ out of that. If you take AJ, yes. Well, of course, but that's the thing. Right.

You know, those are the ripple effects, right? We've got to talk about AJ. We'll get to AJ. This is like one of the things I'm most excited to talk about on the show. We're going to have a show on Thursday, I think, that I'm excited for. Now, this is, it could move depending on when other news happens or the Eagles do the press conference. But we want to do a show where it's like kind of a, a cosplay of, okay, no bad ideas. You know, this is the front office.

meeting bring me all your crazy ideas for the offseason and let's talk we should call it like no all takes exposed clips like this is all nothing leaves this room this is all nothing leaves this pod yeah that should be the framing um one thing i i do want to push back a little bit on that they need to decide between nick and jalen like this off season i i agree i guess your framing is that if it is i'm not saying they have to kick one out right i'm just saying they have to decide who's who's the most important one. It's also possible that everyone is on the same page and Jeffrey, and like if the whole group is on the same page, then there is no decision. Like everybody's moving together as a group. That might be more concerning. Yeah, that's a good point. Like,

this is what they put together with almost everybody's on the same page. I doubt Jeffrey's on the same page with the way that they operated offensively this year. So at that point, I agree that they need to align their priorities, but I just, I don't, I think the way, the way forward to me is they are going to have to rebuild things offensively personnel-wise, we'll get into that. But you can still talk me into this Eagles offense being productive, top half of the league, with Jalen Hertz and Nick Sariani in place.

We've seen it. Right, of course. And that's why the idea that Jalen can't run this offense or that offense. Yes, I agree that if that is the truth of that, if what you're hearing there is 100% correct, then there is urgency here. But it's not true because we've seen him run better offenses.

It's like a strong man. Well, that's the thing. is that there are some, you know, people, there are some people you hear from where it's can't run that ex-offense. And then there's won't, doesn't want to. And I do think that there are differences between those two things. And that's why I was kind of referring to like the doesn't want to where it's like I'm forcibly pushing back.

I believe that we should do this this way. I won a Super Bowl. We went to another Super Bowl playing this way. And that's that. I don't think that that is a viewpoint that you can kind of take moving forward after this season. I just, I mean, listen, he did do more under-center stuff this year. In the middle of the season, when that wasn't part of the off-season plan, right?

Like, we know that he cares about winning. I'm not saying he's a perfect quarterback. And I think he probably had, you know, he has a lot of flaws. I just don't accept the idea that he is closed off to things that will make the offense better. I think it's convenient. I think it is a convenient excuse for, the many deficiencies that we've seen from the equals offense. Yeah.

Yeah. The way I feel about it is like it's one of those, you never, we don't get, we don't know the 100% of the truth that somewhere in the middle. Like I think that there's probably aspects of all of this. Yeah. There's a little bit of truth and everything and, you know, what the real truth lies somewhere in the middle. But that's why I said that really the only person, the person that is probably in best

position to make that call. Yeah. Like it's Howie and Jeffrey. Yeah. I think that, you know, those are the. ones that are, and they're the ones making the call. We need, like, the ultimate litmus test, like, offensive coordinator. Like, I guess, I think it might be, like, Mike McDaniel or somebody from, like, a Shanahan.

I mean, no, Mike McDaniel. Like, somebody who you know what their offense would look like if they had a quarterback willing to run their offense. Okay. All right. Let's take another quick break here. On the other side, we will talk AJ Brown. We'll get to your super chats and some other nuggets from Fran having watched the game.

Hold on. I have a tease. I have a tease. I have a tease. We're going to talk about a top five Jalen Hertz petty moment. Oh, wow. Stay tuned. Elkin Chevrolet run by three brothers, real brothers, local guys, and yeah, big Eagles fans. So you know what that means.

They are furious, just like you are. And how are you going to turn that mood around? Well, how about a new car? What's better than that? because right now at Elkins Chevrolet, they are lining up deals that are hard to beat. They've got a huge inventory of Chevy trucks and SUVs. Everything people actually want to drive at the prices. Well, they're going to move fast.

So if you have been thinking about it, now is the time, whether it's getting to the game, getting to work, getting out of town, taking A.J. Brown to the airport. Whatever it is you want to do, Elkin Chevrolet will have you make it happen. These are the guys that you go back to, not just a one and done kind of. to place because they treat you right, no runaround, no games, just real people and real deals. Elkin Chevrolet, Real Brothers, real deals, and a whole lot of honking good service. Route 73 South and Marlton together. Let's drive.

Next, let's talk about Monarch Money. You will feel organized and confident in your finances with Monarch Money. It's an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together and one clean interface on your laptop or phone. Whether you're switching jobs like me with past retirement accounts to monitor or just trying to simplify checking your portfolio. Monarch has been perfect to keep an eye on all my finances in one place, and I think it can be that for you as well.

It can be so time-consuming, checking a handful of different apps. Monarch really is the perfect solution. It's built for people with busy lives. If you put off organizing your finances, maybe it's a New Year's resolution for you, Monarch is for you. Don't leave money on the table. I know when you're making good money, it's easy to get complacent. You don't want to let financial opportunities slip through the cracks.

Use code P.HLY at Monarchmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% 50% 50% off your first year at Monarchmoney.com with the code PHLY. Back in the PHLY Eagles podcast, let's check out some of these super chats on a Monday. Nice to see everybody here. Peter McCarthy. Best Pod in sports. Thank you. Peter.

You're goddamn right. says thanks for the entertainment during a difficult season Professor Dane is for offensive coordinator How do you think Danez would be as an Ossie? Well, here's my actual, here's my other question. If you were giving him a job anywhere in the building, what job would you give him? Probably, oh man, am I going to be too low here

and like insult him? You want to be in the coaches here? Yeah, I kind of want him to be like, yeah, I want him to have like a nebuby. football ops job where he can like be on the headset with Nick. I think you do want him to be the game management guy. Yeah. Yeah, but you also want to have him probably present, like have a meeting with Nick once a week,

not just on game management, but just like the analytical side of the game. I think that's probably best just because of his general disdain for all things off season. He does not want anything. He doesn't hear anything about drafts, you know, new players, anything of that. Just let him focus on the process. going to be a real test for the football guys in the building when he takes the entire summer off. It's going to be in Turkey. So what's the title?

Give him a title. Special assistant to the head coach. Game day operations consultant. Oh, game day operations. I can tell you guys have worked on the corporate side before. Senior head coach research specialist. Senior head coach. That's what I literally just looked up someone that has a.

similar role and just literally took that title and added senior run on the front because it's it's nice. Rivera. I like that. 23. We just called it in his old. Okay. Here we go.

Rivera. In 2020, the offense was impotent down the stretch. In 2024, the O-line was asked to adopt a run. The O-line had to go to the coach to ask to adopt a run-first approach. 2025, the offense struggles the whole year.

Nick hasn't been able to build a potent passing offense. He's got to go. go. He was listening to Anthony show this morning. I mean, if you were evaluating Nick only as the offensive overlord, that's, that's, that's, that is all fair criticism.

It's a tough day. I usually would sit up here and be like, Nick is more than that. He is a connector. He is a good messenger. You know, guys like to play for him. Of course, yeah. Today's a tough day for that. Yeah, like they're all always on the same page. Everybody loves him. That's why he and the star wide receiver are yelling at each other in the middle of the playoff game.

Not received well by Eagles players. And I'm probably not received well by the owner. Yeah. I mean, what are we doing? I think that is all fair. But those are all fair descriptions from that super chat. Cory Sito, it's ironic that Nick is such an anecdotal coach, and we have two clear anecdotes showing why he can't pick his own staff.

Fair. Oreos Naz. I just want to thank the Eagles offense for helping with diagnosing me being delusional. Delulu. The Lulu. Delulu. I like delulu.

I very much enjoy that. The Lulu is better. CDP. LaShawn McCoy said that people told him that the offense is so static because Jalen can't do anything more complicated. Why is he throwing? hurts off the bus.

By CDP? Well, obviously. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think we get that part of it. Yeah. But this goes to the thing,

same thing I've said. Like, I just, I cannot buy, Jalen can't do this other stuff when we have seen him do other stuff. I agree. I agree. Yep.

I mean, maybe it requires some creativity to get Jalen to throw over the middle of the field and throw us some time in anticipation, but we've seen it. Epion Zero. I'm on the fence about Nick.

There's no obvious upgrade higher, but maybe they've proven that with this org, a great coach isn't required, just one that better aligns with Howie Jeffrey and calls plays. And I think this goes to, you know, the conversation about whether, you know, if you were to move on from Nick Siriani,

would that signal to the league that this is like a job you can't trust because now Jeffrey Lurie has fired two Super Bowl winning head coaches. And I just don't think that that's true. I think the hold up for people coming here is that you know if you come here as a head coach, you are not the most important person in the building. It is not your football operations. You have to be comfortable working with Howie Roseman at the top of that.

That's the dynamic. It has nothing. I mean, there's only 32 jobs. You get paid pretty well. People will take that job. And the Eagles are a well-run organization. Like some of the jobs that you're going to be looking at, especially in the coaching carousel,

you're not as confident that you're going to have a competitive roster and an owner that's committed as committed to winning as Jeffrey Lurie. Last two coaches hired also hoisted a Lombardi trophy as well. Right. You're going to be put in position to be able to win a lot of games. Right. Do you want the guy who cares enough about winning to make a decision like that? Or do you want, you know, someone who's too cheap to do anything anyway?

I think that it speaks a lot. We talked about this last year. But it speaks a lot to the team, like the roster and the organization that has been created here over the last few years, that this team has won however many games, you know, and all the success they've had. And there's all this consternation and all this concern about head coach and quarterback that are the two most pivotal people in an organization. And we can't decide like, oh, like, who's less responsible for all this success that this organization has had? It's crazy. It's crazy. Scotty Galoops. Better odds.

Hertz makes it to the end of his contract, or he is Russell Wilson by a new head coach. This contract? Or just, like, career, this contract? This contract. Is Russell Wilson in this context getting benched or getting like run out of town and railroaded?

I'm assuming of the Denver, like, just cut the guy? It's like smeared? Or just like, you know, shipped out. Or I guess you could say the Seattle version of Russell Wilson Yeah. The more applicable. Applicable.

I just, I need to get this off my chest. I said the Jalen Hertz Russell Wilson thing in like week three. I said, I feel like that is the range for his career outcomes. Russell Wilson is like a good comp for Jalen Hertz. And I don't remember. It was definitely you. I'm not sure if Frayne was on. The finger point.

Oh, because it was him. It was definitely his. What was the no cell? The no cell was strong. This is my bird of finger, too. Yeah. somebody's like 4K zoom in on my finger I didn't do anything

the no cell on the Russell Wilson cop every time I hear someone compared Jalen to Russell Wilson I get angry because I was like I came up with that You were not the first person in the world who came up with that I'm not saying I was the first person I didn't say I coined it

I just I brought it up on the show and everyone was like yeah I don't really like that I'm not going to be able to find it either that's the worst part He doesn't know I don't know. It was early in the season, though.

It might have been training. It was probably yesterday. I asked Mina that too, and Nina didn't like it either. There are some similarities there. There are some similarities, yeah. Both in playstyle and not necessarily personality, but the way their personality is. Having a personality affect. Yes.

The way their personality plays with the rest of the locker room. Yeah. I don't think Jalen alienates. I mean, I wrote a story about how Jalen doesn't alienate his teammates quite as much. But yeah, no, I mean, they do. have distinct personalities. Yeah. Yeah.

That's fair. All right. Steve Clef, last Super Chad for now. Yes, he's a head coach that won a Super Bowl. And he's also a coach with an established record

of underachieving two years with the same talent. If he was a player with the same history, what would you do? It is a fair point that there have been spirals in two of the last three years.

Now they won the Super Bowl in the middle of it. It was funny Jaylen called out, he doesn't like this trend they're on of wildcard Big Gear, Wild Card, Big Year, Wild Card, Big Year. Yeah, I mean, the only

common thread is that they hired a first-time play caller each time. But, I mean, I'm sure there are other common threads, too. That's the one that stands out. I do think that there's something to, I've said this on the show before, not to just keep dredging up my form. And this wasn't a no-self.

Ew! I think Nick is a really good coach for a team that is rolling and is the protagonist in the games that they play. I think that we have evidence now that he struggles when a team is kind of like this is on the roller coaster. But here's the thing.

In theory, like all coaches should be good. When things are going well, that's when it's easy. Like that's when like, oh, you talk about like culture and stuff like that, like that's when it's easy, like getting through the hardest times. And look, he's done that before. He's been able to do that too. Yes, I mean, they hit adversity early last year

and he shaved his head before the game, you know, before a game, and like, they got through on the other side and won a tour in one. You got the flowers. Sure. Like, they've done it. But I think they make, when things are going well, like, and I think that's the point you're making. Yeah. I'm not saying you're not saying you're not making that point.

But I do think that, yeah, there's something to be said for the fact that like most coaches, that should be table stakes is like getting through these. But you could say most coaches struggle when their teams are, you know, on the roller coaster as well. Not everybody's good at dragging their teams out of that. And of course it's not, it's not about, you know, has he done a good job the last five years from Jeffrey's perspective? It's about is he the guy for the next five years? Can you get a fixed? I mean, that's what happened with, that's what happened with Doug.

Right. I just, I cannot, we've talked about this so much. And I just, I still can't get over the disconnect of like the way that they say they want to carry themselves and the way that they actually coach games. You know, like what happened to let your nuts hang? like yep they're leading they had by far the most

the highest percentage of second down runs this weekend you know they're running the ball not just on second in 20 and second in 18 but on second and one from a 27

when like go take a shot yep they just they play so timidly on offense they have so much talent go out and beat people up I'm so tired of that couldn't agree more

the second and one shot is like a, you know how they'll say like every dad in America will be like big thing down here. The second and one like when they get to the line my version of that is like I can't take a shot here.

It doesn't have to be a 50 yard pass down field but go get a chunk. Yeah. No, let's get six yards, pat ourselves on the back and then run on first and 10 and then we'll kick a field goal after that. Like just like ugh.

We got to, we teased top five petty Jalen He's still sticking around for it. No, we got to do it. Go ahead. I'm excited about talking about this. This better be good. Oh, it's good.

You know, before we do that, what are you about to do? Julia, let's put up the stat graphic because I just want to double down on the offense here because we'll get to the pettiness. This is just the offenses, the last 20 years for the Eagles. And we've talked about this in the past. But they finished the season.

24th in success rate, 19th to AP per drive. average those out, 21.5. Last 20 years, the only other times the Eagles have had a worse offense than that are 2020, when Doug gets fired, 2012, when Andy gets fired, and then just below it is 2015 when Chip gets fired. And I'm not saying that that means

that Nick is getting fired, but I'm telling you that Jeffrey is going to want significant change to ensure that this is not the offense he puts on the field again. especially considering the fact that this is the most expensive offense in football. And we talked about it over the course, I said it on Anthony's this morning,

on Anthony's show this morning, but all offseason, though we talked about, oh, they're really cognizant of all the money that they're spending and you want to make sure they're getting every, like all the return on investment with every contract and like,

even like business side. Like money was a topic of conversation in that building for the last 18 months. I think we'll continue to be to put that, much money forward for an offense and get this output, like, there's no way Jeffrey's happy about that.

Zero, like, zero chance. There's just, there was an urgency for this season because of the work it took to put this roster together, the leveraging of the future that went into keeping all of these guys for this season and this opportunity. It's, yeah, if you had, if you went

out and bought a super yacht and it was performing like the, you know, 21st Beth Super Yacht out there, you'd be mad. So relatable for everybody out there. As we all know, these are kitchen table issues. All right.

We're going to take our last break on the other side. We're going to find out. You're going to make me wait until the other side. We're going to find out. You. What Jalen hurts. We're so petty about, according to E.J. Smith. Anybody out there also at the age where you risk hurting your back every time you sneeze?

Yeah, that's me. Well, guess what? that happens. I know exactly where I'm going to go. Rothman Orthopedics, because if joint or muscle pain is keeping you from doing the things you enjoy, whether that's walking the dog, running away from people who are walking a dog, working out, or just moving comfortably through your day, it's time that you can get the care you deserve. At Rothman Orthopedics, you will find expert treatment for injuries and chronic conditions alike, with personalized care focused on helping you move better sooner.

So visit rothmanortho.com slash p-h-l-y to schedule your appointment. That's R-O-T-H-M-A-N-O-R-T-H-H-R-T-Haw. com slash P-Hol-Y to schedule your appointment. Rothman Orthopedics, your mobility, our mission. Do you really want Jalen Hertz returning punts? What about DeVante Smith playing nose tackle? Of course not.

No, it's not worth the risk, the time, or the money. Keep your stars focused on what they do best. The same goes for your business. You don't want your top people buried in operations, the tedious, time-consuming, redundant activities that wear the team down. Togo can help any business looking to reduce operating costs become more efficient or unlock more time for their best people. From customer service and accounting to order management, logistics,

admin, data entry, and even complex multi-step operational processes, they take it off your plate at a fraction of the cost. Each Togo program includes dedicated staff, custom automation, and U.S.-based process engineers who act like your quarterback, giving you complete control, total transparency, and instant efficiency. At Togo, you call the plays, and they execute. Visit Harnesstogo.com, scale smarter, work faster, and stay focused on winning. Back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast.

All right, E.J., time for you to deliver. So, a good reporter at this table. Ask Jalen Hurts. Well, the Jalen one's tough because this is your last chance to talk to Jalen. Yeah. A lot of things to ask him about. And you snuck it in there. And everybody's got something that they want to get off.

You're good positioning. But you're sitting there. You're saying, when is somebody going to ask? When is somebody going to ask? When is somebody going to ask? All right. I guess it's going to have to be me. I appreciated you for posting up at Jalen's locker, which kind of freed me up to. This is a great angle.

Yeah. No, he had great positioning for the camera angle. Freed me up to do some reporting on the fringeses before Jalen. talked and then you get the question in there. You ask Jalen Hertz. Do you want A.J. Brown back next season? And Jalen says, I've talked to AJ. We're in a great place.

You ready? Maybe y'all can talk to him and ask. And I've covered a lot of Jailen Hertz press conferences. I have covered a lot of Jalen Hertz press conferences. The face he made when he said that. He did really. He did really. smirk. He really did.

There was his murk of the beginning, too, like, when you first had, when you first had AJ, and he, like, smiled, and I was like, oh, man. It was a bleep-eating grin. Yeah. It was a, oh, I got him good with that one. Well, just to say, I mean, AJ Brown hasn't talked in, like, two months. Yeah, AJ Brown did not speak at locker room clean-out, so we did not get to ask him about that, but I thought that that was a very good petty Jalen Hertz moment.

I'm not criticizing him at all. I'm reading between the lines of what he said and the truth of what might be a play here, which is we should be asking AJ Brown does he want to be back? Maybe that's not a question for Jalen. Maybe that's a question for AJ that we did not get to ask.

Do you have any other top five Geelan Petty moments? Well, straightjacket moments, definitely number one. Okay, that's a good one. So that's what you all wanted to see how actually might be number one. Yeah, that's a good one. Because the face with that one,

like, he was fed up. He was like tired of it. So yeah, those are my top three. I think that this is a top three moment. Because like he was really trying not to laugh as Brooks Kubina was asking him a question after that. It's like you could see it as case. He's like, don't, do not crack a smile. Tell me if you think this was intentional.

Jalen had two books. I don't know if you noticed this. He didn't notice the books. He had two books sitting in his locker. And I, they could have been there before. I don't remember saying these before. The two books, life is a comeback. And healing division.

Interesting. Life is a comeback and healing division. Healing division. It's like if you had written the script for the two things that Jalen thinks are the important things of this offseason, life is a comeback, healing division. Is it how balancing empathy and power can heal American society? It doesn't sound right. I don't have the subtitle here. It's by Amy E. Hull.

Yeah. Is it? Empathy and power. Balancing empathy and power. The cover leaves a little bit to be desired, I feel like. Just like a simple gradient. A little anti-climactic. Interesting. Yeah. Life is a comeback.

I mean. Better than life is a hitch. He's lived that already, though. Life is a hitch and then you lose? Is that the Eagles season? So do you think AJ's back? I don't. If I had to guess, I would probably put it at 35, 36 turkeys.

Eddie's back. That feels about right? Yeah. What's the game we do? Al, you know? Is that it? No. Fluor world order.

Right. Curious how we haven't heard much about that game considering. Yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. We got some games to get to. I can't imagine he's going to be far up that list for me. me. I find it hard to believe he'll be back. I just think it actually is probably one where all sides would see a benefit in moving on.

And again, we haven't heard from AJ in like a month. So this is really just based off of talking to him throughout the season, kind of reading between the lines of a lot of things that he said. I mean, not even reading between the line, just taking him for what he has said about his frustrations with the Eagles offense this year. So yeah, from that, I would imagine that he would be happy to move on. And from a team perspective, they're going to have a lot of pieces to move around offensively. They're going to have to fix.

They're going to have to address a lot. And I think that moving on from AJ and maybe afford you the draft capital to be aggressive addressing some of those spots. I know that fans aren't going to like that for the record, but I just think they're going to be. They got a lot of roster work to do now. Yeah.

If you trade AJ Brown, You are, you, and let's say like there's other, we always know there's like a surprise guy that might like retire or something like that. But Dallas got it's a free agent. We've talked about like all these other guys, you know, read blanket ship, like you've got other guys on both sides.

Got a lot of holes. I mean, it's, it is, it is within not even like a stretch of reason to think this off season you need to find a starting safety, a starting corner, a starting right tackle, a starting tight end at two starting wide receivers yep

you know at least at least yeah yeah I think it's gonna be interesting to keep an eye on lane this off season and a starting defensive end presumably

I think that was one thing that maybe we didn't just speaking on lane for a second maybe we didn't like talk enough about the like how deflating it must have been for the guys yeah to see Lane

like work to get back and for him to be a scratch I think Fred Johnson said that he found him on Saturday that lane wasn't going to play. I think that those guys did have like an up close vantage point of Lane working hard to get back this season. And for him to not get back, I think it did probably have a deflating effect. But I say that's why they lost the game. But I do think it was something that, you know, as I thought

more about the game in the last 24 hours, it kind of stood out to me. All right. Some more super chats. And we appreciate everybody. Yeah. Appreciate you. Coming with the soupy soups today. Spicy. When Jeff hired Nick, he said something about, excited about the coach he can be, become. Is Nick that coach? I do think that this is, I mean, he won a Super Bowl. He became that coach, I think. I think when you're envisioning the coach Nick could become a few years ago,

you probably do think that he is more of a progressive offensive, like leader. But I think Jeffrey talked earlier in the season about Nick the connector and how he's one of the best connectors in all the sports. I think that that is a big part of it as well, especially, you know, like the emotional intelligence of it all. So I think that's a big component of it still. Corey Sito, only Chelsea FC and the Eagles fire winning coaches. Chelsea RMS.

I couldn't root for that team. LB 908. Other than the truism, you don't fire a coach a season after winning the Super Bowl. What's the case for keeping Nick? Players love Dom and Kathy too. Doesn't mean they should be head coach. Hey, shot at Kathy. If that is the only,

if that's the only thing keeping them from doing it, then that's the wrong, then it would be the wrong decision. I don't think that's the only thing keeping them from doing it. I agree. Yeah. I think there are other positives.

Yeah. NEPA. Oz that Zach Bond reads Jalen books within the next month. Hi. I would say pretty high. Very high.

He probably is already read them. Especially now with so much time. He's probably so upset about the time that he's got in the next couple of weeks. presidential Mike. This isn't an OC problem. It's a Nick problem. Terrible passing offense for three years straight.

It's Nick's playbook and play design no matter who is the OC. Yeah, certainly one way to read it. We talked about. All right. Fran, let's talk a little bit more turkey about the game yesterday. I mean, I know you went through the film. Yep. You know what?

You had a good rant on the offense. I don't know that we really need to unpack the offense much other than some of the, like, just like the run decisions. Go ahead. What did you want to say? A little more variety in the run game. Like they ran like the Wham trap play. They ran a tackle trap. They ran a pinpole sweep.

They ran the QB counter read where he handed it off to tank Bigsby. They had zone read lead from 13 personnel. Like more variety. There was something. Okay. Running back screen game. Like who knew that existed? Yeah.

They ran multiple, you know, multiple running back screens. One of them was nice design, 20 yards, which that happened. I think it was like 11 minutes left in the second quarter. Yeah. That went for 20 yards. Yeah. Early fourth quarter was when Jaylin rolled out and got hit late when he was sliding. Yeah.

And that was a 15-yard penalty. That was the... That was the... I was looking at that play. I'm like, when's the last time they gained 15 yards in a play? It was the running back screen for 20 yards in a second. They literally went two quarters a full half a game without having anything close to that. Crazy.

The two targets to Devante out of the backfield, were those the only two snaps who took out of the backfield? Yes. that I charted I didn't go through like fine tooth comb but yeah what are we doing

they went under center it's like that's our big thing we worked two weeks on is we're going to put Devante in the back field and throw it to throw it every single time if you can design a route

for Devante there I don't know maybe you could have just built it for Sequin at some point this season one of them was a really bad pass too did you think that they did anything to try to take advantage of the linebackers

no I mean Try the warning. That's what I was going in. I'm like, all right, well, you know, maybe they'll go up tempo. And I was like, well, like,

they didn't know the tempo. Like, they didn't like do anything in terms of like spreading them out. Yeah. It was, it was bad. It was really bad. I, like, obviously I said during the show I wasn't positive that they were going to try

to exploit the linebackers, but I have yet to really wrap my head around why they didn't. Is there any reason that you can think of why they wouldn't have tried to isolate? Well, I mean, listen, when you have an opponent that has a perceived weakness, you don't want to go chasing that stuff. I know, I'm looking at the camera. What are we doing here? No, I mean, the easiest explanation is that they're not capable of doing it.

I think that's the easiest explanation. That was just, you know, finer football minds than me. Maybe they could understand it. The play second and 11 on the final drive where Jalen builds the pocket. could he have stepped up and throw the ball? Yeah, yeah. The second half in particular, there were like a handful of plays for, you know,

Jalen left the pocket early. But then there was one, there was the one where they ran, I had a couple people tag me in this and like a couple of fans, listeners like tag me on social media on this play, where they ran play action and Jalen kind of like half booted to the left.

And they're chipping the defensive end on that side. And so I think like the chip kind of messed up my lot on the set. And so the defensive end is coming around high. And that scared Jaylen. I'm like, why do you feel the need to like do the,

like, we talked about like the chipping. Like, you have Jordan Milata and like Fred and, you know, Fred Johnson, Lane Johnson, like holding up against the worst past Russian football

that has not been able to do this to anybody. Crazy. You know, and that's like, I feel like that kind of spooked him on that one. And so then he rolled to his right. Like he had AJ streaking across the field. It would have been a big chunk game.

Yeah. But he left early four or five times, I would say. Earlier that I would like, I would say. It wasn't good on offense. It was bad. It was very, very bad. I think Robert Mays, I didn't double check this, but I think Robert Mays in the athletic football show said that they had the same success rate against this defense that the Cleveland Browns did like three weeks ago. And for like, when you look at those two depth charts, I mean, and honestly, like, that's the, like, because Cuzz was, was pounding the table for for Kevin Stefanski today.

Like, I was a big talk more on the show. But, like, that's, that's the thing is, you know, you're talking about doing like more with less and less with more. To have that output against that defense with this talent. Like, it's damning. Yeah. Super chat from Mike Aruse, who says, how many turkeys would you put on politics contributing to players and coaches not getting along?

Like, national politics or internal politics? Oh. I think he means. I met. Yeah. International politics. I read that as. I would say

zero one. The thing that's pretty unlikely. Yeah, 2%. Yeah. Internal politics. Internal, yeah, right. That's different.

All right, I want to ask about the defense, but let's do it quickly in... Are we ready for it, Julia? Julia, Tide. How did Kyle Schenahan get one over on old Vicky? I mean, they had a couple explosive plays

I don't I'm not like looking at this and saying like man that was a bad it was a bad it was I think it was the worst success rate of a Fangio defense against you and honestly one of the worst games that they've had like since he's been here with the Eagles

so like yeah like from that but from that end of it like it's a really good scheme they hit on in like the trick play there was the explosive that where Crian and Mitchell like undercut the undercut the route and the first play of the game

second play of the game you know they hit on a couple plays I don't know like I looked at it and I didn't say that man that was the defense really struggled today I think they were putting bad spots they had to carry the load for a large chunk of the game you had you know

four out of five possessions went three and out again and so they're constantly on the field that's kind of how I looked at it I thought quinyon disappointing pass rush yeah the pass rush but when you're going up against that that offense like they habitually make pass rushes look bad because of the way they play all the misdirection

and the play action like that's that's all by design um purdy i thought made a couple of bad decisions certainly uh but there were also a couple where he like extended the play and made a really good play like late in the down uh across the middle of the field so yeah i i didn't look at that i thought that my big takeaways i thought uh i thought jordan davis looked to me like we're in wearing julia time played his ass off like i thought he was awesome i thought jordan davis was really really good I thought of Dory Jackson looked really slow A number of plays Just kind of closing on throws late

And the things of that nature I thought that guys flew around They were making plays against the run I liked the competitiveness there Yeah so it was It's a good defense How much would you get on read for the trick play? Yeah I mean like to have that back

Yeah But but also like It's a freaking jet sweet reverse pass Like yeah They've run it a couple times in the last several years, but I'm not killing them for it. Those are tough plays. You tell me what you thought, but I felt like there was a little bit of the resentment's probably too strong of a word, but the defense acknowledging the disappointment of not

being able to make a run because of how good they were in the locker room cleanout day today. Like, Morrow Adjomo was talking about how they felt like they really had built something special on defense. It was a special year, and he's disappointed that it won't be. remembered for more. And then I thought it was interesting. He said that like, well, they need to get better.

Like as good as they were this year, they have to be 10 times better. And he said, like, we have to learn how to win games, you know, as a defense, which I think is damning for the Eagles offense that the defensive guys are like, we have to figure out how to win games on our own, basically. But I did. I thought that. But they have had some fourth quarter wiltz. Yeah, but again, I think that it's important to evaluate that with the context of the

Eagles offense struggling so much in the second half of games. So the defense should be pissed Sure yeah Huge missed opportunity I mean it was a championship level defense Yeah Jeffrey Larry called the Super Bowl defense Yeah they they answered that call Like when he said it

Yeah it wasn't quite as definitive a Oh yeah this is one of the best defenses in football They made they became that And they came up short Mostly because of offensive insufficiencies I do think You're gonna blame Quinny on Mitchell No I'm not blaming

Obviously I'm not blaming the defense I do think that they were they were not very clearly the best defense in football. I just, that's all. Top three. Top two?

I think, no. I think they were a notch below the Texans and the Seahawks. I think that's fair. Of course, nobody's complaining. It's a championship level defense, yes. But they also could have, they didn't come out and just,

you know, blow the Niners off the line of scrimmage yesterday. How much better would that defense look, though? How much better would that defense look? look if they had, I mean, especially the Seahawks offense. Like if you had an offense that was above average and success rate. Of course. I think that would make the defense even better. They should not feel like

they let anybody down or anything. I'm just, I'm just pushing, like, the idea that they were as good as last year's defense even, I think is too far. I think that's, I think that's probably right. I think last year's defense was probably... In the regular season, I think I could talk myself into this defense being, I think I could talk you into this defense being better than last year than the regular season.

You couldn't talk me in anything. Postseason. Oh, wow. Excuse me. Postseason, I would agree, obviously. The Eagles defense last year took it up a notch. Yeah. I don't know. I think up front,

Julian Phillips was really good, but Jalen Carter was not as good. I'm sorry to your boy, but Milton was better. Oh, no. That's ridiculous. Milton was better last year than Morrow is. You guys, come on, man. I respect the commitment.

It's not a commitment. You're wrong. Nolan Smith was way better last year. Nolan was better. This year. version of Nolan's was worse. Yeah. How are you going to say

Morrow is worse than Milton was last year? Because it's not even close. Milton the player in 2024 was better than Morrow in 2025. Yeah, the chat would be on my side because I feel fine. You're wrong.

Oh, wow. It's okay to be wrong. Tokugawa, before we go, I hope Juergens and Landon get healthy because T.O. is the only eagle in recent memory to be praised for playing injured. Everyone else gets trashed

for being selfish or forgotten. I don't think that that's true. Yeah. I also, I will say, I thought the rest served those guys well. I thought that there were a number of reps where Landon and Jordan Milata like blew guys off the ball and Jurgens. We got movement at the point of attack. Now, you're going up against that defensive line.

Not great, but we had not seen that for especially the last like two months. So I think the rest actually did help those guys. Juergens had the penalty, you know, but like I thought the rest helped those. I think if the Eagles were not going to win the Super Bowl, it's a good thing that they lost now. That's fair. Yeah. Landon Dickerson talking about his injuries yesterday, concerning, very concerning to me.

That was the issue with him coming out. I mean, he said, but he's been confident about his ability to come back from stuff. I talked to him about it last summer. Like, you know, he's talked about how he's like, some people are wired to come back from injuries 100%. So to hear him say like he'd feel a lot better if he knew he'd be able to get back to 100%.

Like, yeah, that was an alarm bell for me going into this offseason. All right. We've got a lot more to get to on the locker room Cleanout front. EJ and I talked to a bunch of guys today. Nacobi Dean, Jalen Phillips, Jordan Davis, Andrew McCuba, Michaela, Cam Williams, John Dotson, Cooper DeGine, Fred Johnson,

and more. We'll unpack that all on tomorrow's show, assuming that nothing else happens in between. Lots to come this week on the Eagles front and over the course the next couple of weeks. We hope you stay with us every day, mostly, at 2 o'clock. Thank you, Fran. Thank you, E.J.

Thank you, Julia. We will... Shout out to Julia. Shout out to Julia. Let everybody get going. Flyers have a pregame show coming up here at 6.30. So stay tuned for that. Otherwise, we'll talk to you tomorrow at 2 o'clock for all of us here. As always, we love you.

Like the mayor.