PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Safety IN FOCUS: Marcus Epps, Michael Carter II competing? | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

With Sydney Brown gone, Marcus Epps and Michael Carter II seem to be competing to start next to Drew Mukuba in Vic Fangio’s Eagles defense, at least until Howie Roseman makes a splashier addition at some point, whether in the draft or with a trade for someone like Budda Baker. EJ Smith and Bo Wulf go in depth on the safety position, where the Eagles are at risk of being in the wilderness again. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

and welcome the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast and a Monday afternoon, Bo Wolf, E.J. Smith, live from the X.F.F.F.F.E.S.5. And presented by Bet365 and Ashley. Time to talk safeties. Because on Friday, the Eagles made a bunch of little moves, E.J. If anybody missed it, why don't you tell us what happened? Yeah, so the Eagles traded Sidney Brown to the Atlanta. The Atlanta Falcons. Why did I, I haven't thought about this since Friday. to the Atlanta Falcons in exchange for two pick swaps, one in the fourth round, one in the seventh round. See a lot of double pick swaps.

Yeah, and I... It was, I would say they were marginal, marginal improvements. I do have them somewhere in here. I apologize. This is a great start. It's a fourth of a six. It's generally equivalent by the pick value charts

to like a mid to late round, late sixth round pick. Yes. Yeah. So to me... Listen, Howie's sending us safety to the Falcons once landed one of the best trades he ever made. Jonathan Siprian for...

Duke Riley and the Eagles got a pick. See, I knew that this show is going to take some turns today based off an absolute home run of a trade. Okay. And then they did what? And then they did what? Then they signed J.T. Gray and Marcus Epps. To me, I think Marcus Epps can be viewed as honestly like a read-blankenship replacement, potentially. I think J.T. Gray is more a flyer on a player that could replace some of the special teams contributions that Sidney Brown brought to the Eagles.

So I think it made sense for the Eagles to trade Sidney Brown because he wasn't a player that was going to be in their long-term plans. But it did bring about the question that the Eagles very quickly answered afterward, which was that they are very thin at the safety position, and it is unclear what's next. I think we have a better picture because of the fact that Marcus Epps returned, though. All right. We're going to talk about Sidney Brown and what I think maybe some of the lessons are

from his time with the Eagles and why the Eagles decided to move on, but we're going to do that in a little bit. I want to focus on the current state of the roster, Although I do have a question for you. What's up with the color thing? Swapping out of brown for a gray? Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Is that a good thing?

Is it a bad thing? I don't know. What do you prefer? They're both neutral colors, which I'm definitely prefer. I definitely prefer a good neutral color. I mean, I think you probably prefer brown, right? I mean, the color of a football.

I wasn't going that way. I was thinking, you know, like there's more to life than gray, although I am. Thank you. I wouldn't call my hoodie gray. I call your shirt gray. Yeah, I'm gray here. Yeah, I'd say this is blaze. Yeah, it's a light blue. Yeah, it's like, I call like a very neutral blue like blaze, you know.

Okay. Kind of just like a very tepid blue. Do you think that this was like a thing that how we... No, I don't think, I don't think how I considered this when he made the moves. So as it currently stands, you've got Drew McCuba. Okay. Coming off of a solid rookie season. Right?

Not necessarily one that makes you think, okay, this guy's going to be a star, but one that, you know, there's something to build with here. You've got now Michael Carter the second and Marcus Epps, J.T. Gray, Andre Sam is still in the building. Brandon Johnson potentially play the position,

but, you know, he is a little bit slight for it. Do you think that aside from marginal, you know, another J.T. Gray type or a late round pick, yeah. This is pretty much the constitution of the safety room. entering training camp.

I do. I would give the caveat that there's always a possibility for a trade. You know, I think there are some names out there that we could talk about later. But in terms of signings, I think that this is probably the group that they're going into next season with. And the two things I would say is I think from an outside perspective, Marcus Epps looks like the presumptive starter on paper right now because of the fact that he started four games for the Eagles last year. He's played decent football for the Eagles. I might even go so far as saying he's,

He's played good football for the Eagles, you know, and throughout his career, he has a lot of experience. I like him as a pairing next to Drew McCuba because of the fact that he has that experience. And he is a little bit more of a, maybe like a singles or a doubles hitter next to Andrew. Yeah, next to Drew McCuba, who is more of a home run hitter, more of a risk reward, you know, and not to say that's a bad playing style, but I think the pair are complimentary for that reason. But what I would say is from just talking to people and just getting, getting a sense of like where they are, where they evaluate the position, I would say that Michael Carter is going to have a good chance to compete for this job.

He's younger than we, you might think. He's 27 years old. And I think there is like an enthusiasm that he will be, that that transition to safety from Nicol Corner for him is going to be a seamless one and that it will give him an opportunity to kind of get like a second chapter, you know, second wave of his career as a, as a safety in a Vigfangio system. It's an interesting gamble. Sure, yeah.

I don't know if I truly believe that Howie Roseman entering a season with Super Bowl expectations and this loaded roster is going to be okay with just rolling the dice with Michael Carter the second and Marcus Epps as a backup. But I do think it's probably worth, let's take a look at this in camp and revisit. I agree, because what I would say is that they went into last year with Super Bowl aspirations and they had, it was really the quarterback two spot, right? Yeah. I know you have Keely Ringo as part of that, and I think that is a key difference.

But they went into last year saying it's either going to be Adori Jackson or Keely Ringo as our second outside starting corner. And, you know, I think for that reason, it feels like this second safety spot is going to be the new outside corner spot where you're trying to make do with less. And don't you think it's, I think we talked to Mina about this, about the idea of like swapping that out. Like, okay, would you rather have your your weak spot in the secondary be that second safety spot or the. other corner spot. I think the problem here is that it really hinges a lot on Drew Macuba. This is like to to take this kind of risk at that other spot means that Drew McCuba has got to be really good. Yeah, I completely agree. And I there's a huge wide range of outcomes for him. He could he could be awesome. He could be not that good.

And it's interesting if you think about this this swap that they seem to make. because you know we have always heard that in vicks defense you know safety is is more important than you know probably that that second outside corner spot like you can you can scheme around that other thing yeah i don't know if they're going to be if vicks going to be happy having two safeties who are a little bit unreliable yeah the thing that's tricky with macuba is he absolutely has the upside to be like a an impact player at that safety spot it's funny he probably will be an impact player it's just his impact will be up and down you know last year he had some really high level plays, but then he had some very, very costly mistakes, you know,

and the mistakes that he makes are mostly down to the mental side of the game. You know, I feel like there were a few times we had mistackles, but for the most part, it was never physical limitations with him. Oh, I don't know if I agree with that. You think that there were physical limitations. I think the fact that he is slight. He had some mistackles, but he also made some big tackles. But it also, it also potentially brings in the possibility of injury. Like this conversation we have about Nolan Smith too. I agree with that, but I do think, like, the injury he suffered had nothing to do with his size. His size.

Like, it was just a freak thing. Yeah. And something we'll probably talk about in the next block here. I don't think most of, when I think of like the Andrew McCuba experience from last year, I think of, again, the high risk, high reward, like the interception he had against the chiefs. But then I also think about like the, I think it was against the Tampa Bay Bucks that he had the busted coverage. Yeah. Where he, you know, takes the base.

in front of him and you know misses the high low concept developing behind him i think that is the experience that you're expecting with him he needs to limit the mental mistakes because i do think that he has the the physical profile of a player that could make a difference he's the player and it's interesting because he had a lot of reps in college it's part of what the selling point on him was but you know the fact that he didn't get a full season last year is also part of why this is a bit of a curious thing that the egos are going with right now, accepting that this might not actually be their plan. Right.

But there is, you know, it's not like they got a full season to not only evaluate him, but also give him those reps on which to build and be able to make the mistakes that he needs to learn from. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it is like this conversation does make you wonder, like, well, how could they address it?

But it's just, it's not straightforward. It's the same thing that we will talk about with edge rusher where it's like, you're not finding like a rock solid starting safety. It's not a foregone conclusion. Maybe you trade for Buda Baker, just like maybe you trade for Jonathan Grenard, right? But you can't bank on those things. So I think they are comfortable with Michael Carter

and Marcus Epps being the two competing for the job. But I agree with you. It does feel light. It feels like maybe a day three pick. I don't think they're going to use an early pick on it, though. I'd be surprised. Yeah, I think, you know, you probably had a day three pick into the equation.

And then it's probably the situation, like Eddrusher, where you go through training camp, You see if somebody emerges, and if no one does, then maybe you're looking for like a C.J. Gardner-Johnson-type trade. You know, I think it's always important to remind people, like, C.J. Gardner Johnson was, you know, joining the Eagles a week before cut down day. You know, like these moves are available to the team. Howie Rosen always loves to say we don't play a game next week. So as it sits right now, I think they're comfortable with where they're at. And I think the evaluation of Michael Carter is probably a bigger part of that than the outside perspective might realize. But yeah, I mean, it would not surprise me at all.

I think it would, I think they probably, if you had to put turkeys on it, can I add a draft pick into the equation? Sure. Okay. If I would put 70 turkeys, maybe more, 75 turkeys on them going into training camp with a day three draft pick, Marcus Epps and Michael Carter, and really Marcus Epps and Michael Carter taking most of those first teams. But how much would you put on that being the week one answer?

Hmm. See, the tricky thing about that is my evaluation of Michael Carter at safety means nothing right now. I haven't seen him do it. So I don't want to be too bullish on it. 52? Okay. Yeah? I think I would go lower.

Okay. I just, the idea behind using their big free agent spend on Rikwollen. Yeah. Right? Is so that we may not have the, the best front four in football, but we are investing in hopefully we're going to have the best secondary in football.

We've got Q and Cooper DeGine and now Rick Wollin. Like nobody's going to be able to throw on us on the outside. But that kind of breaks down if you have real question marks at safety. And it's part of, we can have a bigger picture conversation about last year's draft class

and why the Makuba pick was such a big swing, especially given how difficult it is to evaluate safeties in the draft, you look at the Eagles history. But I push comes a shove. You don't have unlimited resources. Yeah. You have to prioritize certain things.

It's worth taking a shot to see if Michael Carter the second can ascend to what you hope he can be. Right. I just, I don't believe that the eagle, that Howie Roseman in the end will enter the season. This is VIX last year. We need to have the best secondary in football with, okay, McCuba and Michael Carter is going to be good enough. I don't know. I just I don't fully buy it. I think you're underselling Marcus Epps a little bit here.

I like Marks. He played solid football for them down the stretch last year. Very important for Flew World Order ramifications. All of a sudden, your boy is very much alive. Oh, really? I didn't realize that. Oh, yeah. Okay.

That's why I didn't take any early victory laps like you are doing right now. I'm right behind you, my friend. I think you're underselling Marcus Epps. Like, if Marcus Epps is your starter, it's more about like the aggregate of the group. Like, you know, it's about Drew Acuba and Marcus Epps as like a parent. But I actually think it's a fine pairing. I think that's solid. Like I don't think I think you can win a Super Bowl with that pairing You have to win it because of other parts parts of your defense You know you have to win it because you've got one of the most talented cornerback trios in the NFL

You've got probably the best interior pass rush of any team in the NFL But no, I think that if like I'm looking at Marcus Epps is like the the baseline for the safety spot right now And then I'm wondering if Michael Carter can like exceed it. You know I'm wondering if Michael Carter can have a really strong training camp but no I think that I think you were a little bit like I don't know I don't think how he was going to be like man we would have won a Super Bowl if it weren't for Marcus Epps at safety I don't think that that's I don't think that that's actually not probably

I think I'm more worried about their edge rush than I am at safety if Marcus Epps is a starter yeah I listen as as everybody always says that things go hand in hand if you if they make a big addition on the edge then probably you can survive with with Macsarder you know if not yeah that's a good framing they probably have one big move for defense. And if you are,

if you're only making one big move, I'd rather it be Jonathan Grenard than Buda Baker. You know, even if you take the names out of it, I'd rather it be a true number one at the top of your rotation edge rusher. And then you hope that Jaylix Hunt or Nolan Smith or Arnold Ebakedy

become like your one B on the other side. I'd rather to make that move than put all my chips into having, you know, a veteran experience, potentially difference making safety. Can I give you my three trade options? Yeah, I'd love that.

I mentioned Buda Baker. Yeah. That's what now. These are, these are all guys. How many times has Buda Baker been linked to the Eagles via trade? Exactly. I mean,

nonstop. I can't think of a player who has been more often linked to the Eagles who didn't eventually land on the Eagles. I mean, Jalen Phillips was one. You know, you go back like two decades, but I'm trying to think now. Anyway,

these are all guys who have undergone, you know, defensive scheme change to soft season. So Buda Baker, obviously. Now he's 30. Wouldn't cost quite as much. Yeah, I don't think that that age scares you off.

I don't think that that's impossible. Javan Holland. Now, tough to expect the Giants to make an intra-division trade. But that's a possibility. He's 26. And then the one that does stand out to me as, if Howie wants to really make a move, Grant Delpit.

Oh. From the Cleveland Browns. He's 27 years old. And if you really want to get, you know, funny about it. Coach Schwartz, Welcome back. We got your safety ready for you. Got him a year early.

Grant Delpit under contract through 2026, it looks like. Be a free agent next off season. So are you extending him if you trade for him? Maybe. I like that. I like Grant Delpit. That's a fun one. That's the one that seems like, you know, if they're going to make a CJGJ type move.

I think that's my favorite one. I mean, Buda Baker, like, is kind of... It's kind of Kevin Byer. Yes, I was literally about to say it's kind of Kevin Byerty in a way. But like, you know, and this is something I wrote on all p.h.i.com. I went through the Eagles defensive depth chart. Make sure it's not even, you don't even have to become a diehard for this one. You can just breed it.

It's free for the public. You guys are welcome. I thought it's a kindness. It's a Monday. You know, so you make sure you go through that. I wrote in there that like I do feel like the sentiment around Arnold Ebbikati is like negative just because of the Aziz Ojalari. Are we doing this to Buda Baker now?

Is it like the Kevin Byard experience was so bad that you don't go for a veteran safety? Well, honestly, my, my takeaway from the Kevin Byard experience is it's really hard to bring in a safety mid-season. Yeah. You know, like, and it's part of why there's like a, now, listen, CJGJ was right before the season and that worked out fine in 2022. It's a little different. It's a little different. Yeah. But I think that it's part of why I think how I would like to solve this before week one.

Yeah, the Kevin Byard thing, it's funny because he's gone on to play good football again, but I feel like the year... It's there for a full off season. The year after was shaky, though, wasn't it? I think it was fine. I mean, 2024, his numbers at least were fine. And then this season was the one where he, you know, really returned to what he was in Tennessee. I'm just, I, you know, longtime Eagles fans have been through the safety wilderness. Yeah.

Right? You know, you think about the post-Dalkin's era and there was so much. time spent trying to get that right. You know, you had Quentin Michael and then it's okay, let's go with Macho Harris and start a fifth round rookie. It didn't work. You know, Sean Jones plays that year. Then it's then, okay, he used a second round pick on Nate Allen and he and Kurt Coleman

ended up working together. That's okay. But you're still trying to solve it. And, you know, until they signed Malcolm Jenkins and then later signed Rodney McLeodd, he had four years of locked in great play. And then after that, okay, you have to, you have to, you have to, you have to, to trade for CJGJ and you luck in to read Blankenship. It's been good.

I'm a little bit worried about, you know, what might happen there. It's also a lesson of, again, how difficult it is to draft safeties. Yeah, I was about to say that's why with the needs they have on offense and Howie Roseman's track record drafting safeties, I have a hard time envisioning the Eagles

using an early pick, a day one or day two pick on a safety. It would just be, it's a risky proposition in and of itself, even if you put it in a vacuum, and then you look at like, what are they going to do at receiver? What are they going to do at offensive line? Now, Fran has told us it's a good safety class. I think he said there was six guys or so who he could see stepping in to start. Yeah, but I don't, I don't think that would be a good use of resources.

Wasn't it a good safety class when they drafted Sydney Brown to? Well, that's a good T is going to talk about Sidney Brown and the Sydney Brown experience on the other side here on the PHA Y Eagles podcast. Stay with us. If you love the NFL draft, then this is your edge. The diehard NFL draft guide is built and based off of. thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl, Combine, talking to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best going to fit and project in the NFL.

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You play to win. You bet bet parks. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler. Back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast by Wolf and E.J. Smith talking safeties on a rainy Monday. When you think of the Sydney Brown Eagles era, what will you think of? I would, I will honestly think of, it takes me back. to like when he first got drafted.

How the Red Star. Yeah, I was about to say just how bullish they were on him as a prospect. And I don't mean this in like, you know, like I'm not sitting here like laughing at their evaluation. It just the thing that stands out to me is that the way that they described him as a player was perfect. It just really didn't become a fit for the defense. And he didn't really take like the necessary steps to round out his game in a way that would make him a productive safety in the league. Like, you know, I asked Fran for his scouting report on Sidney Brown when he was coming out. I can read it for you here.

Frank gave me permission to read it. I want everybody to know. Made sure that he was okay with this. So five-year starter in the secondary for the align eye has played both nickel and safety and does play all over the formation. Don't view him as an impact every down player, but he can fit in as a valuable role player and a key cog in a zone heavy scheme. I do what she has. He was a better run defender, but it's not for a lack of one-two and most of his issues can be corrected.

in that area floor as a fourth safety who has the potential to impact on special teams which is pretty much dead on for sydney brown and i'm guessing he did not have a third round grade on him he did not he was i think he said he was safety number 12 for fran yeah listen he is he is a physical marvel yeah you know he absolutely runs around at a hundred miles an hour um which is maybe you know he's he's sort of built more like a he plays more like a linebacker yeah safety right um because he doesn't play with safety. Yeah. I mean, my memory of Sydney Brown

will be like special teams penalties. Okay, I was going to say, like, hurting guys. Yeah. But it does kind of underscore just how good they have been at drafting. Yeah. Over the past, you know, in the four-year span from 2021 to 2024.

And Howie has talked about this, but that they had 13 draft picks in the first three rounds over those four years. I think we have a graphic for this. I mean, the hit rate is insane, and it's why the Eagles are as good as they are. And it's ironic that Sidney Brown is no longer here. He's the only one that wasn't a hit on this list.

Right. Devante Smith, Landon Dickerson, Milton Williams, and you go, Jordan Davis, Cam Juergens, Nekobi Dean, then Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Tyler Steen. You know, if you wanted to argue, you could, a bit, but I think Tyler Steen is a hit still. I think it's fine, yeah. Then Sidney Brown, Quinion Mitchell, Cooper DeGeen, Jalickson.

Now we'll see how the jihad Campbell, Andrew McCuba experience works out. But you contrast that with the four years prior. Just to, I mean, that's 12 out of 13 hits, right? Yeah, for sure. And even the miss on Sidney Brown is, he was a third safety. He played four-round special teams. It's the type of miss that you can live with.

Yeah. I'm getting a six-round pick back. It's like there are, there are much worse picks than that. Yeah. Contrast that with the 10 picks they had in the four years prior in the first three rounds. Derek Barnett, I would argue still, I would have hit. That's fine. Sydney Brown is a miss.

City Jones. City Jones. Yeah. Russell Douglas for the Eagles was a miss. Yes. It turned out to be a very good player elsewhere. Dallas Goddard's a hit. That's two.

Andre Dillard is a miss. Miles Sanders is a tepid hit. Fine. That's three. J.J. Ithago Whiteside is a miss. Jalen Rager is a miss. Jillen Rheertz is obviously a home run Grand Slam outcome.

Then Davion Taylor is a miss. That's four out of ten hits. Yeah. And so, you know, it's worth reflecting on, okay, as Sidney Brown might have been a disappointment. The reason the Eagles are as good as they are is because of that four-year stretch of picks. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the philosophical shift that came with those picks, I think is something that's here to stay. You know, the one thing with Sidney Brown, you mentioned it a minute ago, like how he almost played like a linebacker. That was kind of what was so like

frustrating about him sometimes as a player is, I remember his rookie season he was playing as like a big nickel, right? You know, he's like early down slot corner. And I really like that for him. Probably the best use. Yeah. I love that usage, but it was like so limited because I remember it was, against Washington at FedEx. I can't remember who the receiver was, but they ran like a stick and knot on him. And he was just in no man's land. Like he looked like, he almost looked like, well, you can do that. Like you're allowed to do that.

Like his change of direction. Yeah. Yeah. He's just never had coverage chops. So it's like, you know, his physicality near the line of scrimmage near the ball. You really want that because of the fact that he is so such a C ball get ball type player, but he didn't have the complimentary skills to really round out that part of his game. And then, yeah, as soon as Vic Fangio became the defensive coordinator, it's like he's got no home in the system.

He can't play safety in a Fangio system. So I thought it was good Eagles got something for him, even if it wasn't, you know, a ton. And they save a little bit on the cap by moving him. So, you know, I had a funny story for you, actually, about Sidney Brown, which now is relevant because he is going to a new system. I like him personally. Yeah, I've always, yeah, he's great and great guy to talk to. It was before the Vikings game I was like have you gotten a chance to like watch any of that

Flores defense and he like looks to me and he goes like oh I remember this like oh my god like in that system that's the spot because really if you're if you're Sydney brown like you want to play in that system you know where you can be all over the field and you can just play with reckless abandon so yeah I think he could still carve out like a decent career for himself I could see him starting like nine games for the Falcons this year you know like Not saying I think it's going to happen, but I could see him like becoming like a...

Who is their defensive coordinator? I should know this. I should know this too. Who would Stefansky have brought with him? Jeff Ulbricht. Jeff Ulbric. Yeah. I don't know how that is a fit for Sidney Brown.

He probably won't start. They got these and say... Sidney Brown neck. So I can certainly see that being a fit on that. I could see Sidney Brown. Let me walk this back. I could see Sidney Brown starting like three games at the end of the year for the Falcons. And like playing fine.

I could see that. Yeah. I don't think that's out of the... Nine was too many. That's possible. I'll go three. Over under's at two and a half. And I think as long as he's not getting penalties,

he's a very good special teams player. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, but the penalties are part of it. You're going to knock those off. Do you think Chase Brown and Sidney Brown's respective NFL careers has... Do you think that Sydney Brown would take a do-over and play running back?

No. I kind of think he would. You think so? Yeah, why not? Is he as good as that as... I mean, Chase Brown's a good. Good running back. I think...

Is it a fine running back? I would be curious... Be in the league longer. Hmm. I'm not sure about that. I don't think I agree with that. I think Sidney Brown... The guy just got traded for like the equivalent of like...

You said a six-round pick? Yeah. Yeah. I think he can play special teams for like... He could be J.T. Gray. Four more years. I don't know about that, though. Chase Brown will as a running back be in the league that long.

I mean, Chase Brown has he is... I mean, he's still in his rookie contract, obviously. Yeah. He could get a decent... That can be wrong. I think I would take Chase Brown over Sidney Brown for NFL longevity. I mean, Sidney Brown might be out the league in two years. Sure.

Chase Brown also could. But I think it's less likely. Just betting against a running back. Yeah, but Chase Brown is like an actual productive NFL player right now. Yeah. I think if you were Sydney Brown, you'd probably go back and play running back. Now that you know how it went for you. But the whole thing is he's wired as a defender.

I mean, his personality would be great at running back. he had that long interception return you saw it there i don't know that he has i don't know that he has again the change of direction that his brother has he's he's more of a linear athlete it's like fascinating to me to consider like that they're twins but they might not be the same athlete yeah but i guess you're right it's possible just one man's opinion or would you go back and like just eat protein bars for like three years to try and play linebacker Now you're talking You think that's what he would do

I don't know if that's what he would do But yeah I don't know I liked him at safety I just wish for him I wish that he I wish that he could have figured out the coverage stuff

Okay Do you think that Howie learns a lesson What lesson do you think he learns From the Sydney Brown experience You know I think Sidney Brown and Will Shipley Have been like tough reflections

For the Red Star program Yeah And I again, I'm not saying any of this to be like, you know, like mocking or anything like that. It's just a reflection of maybe they overweight some of the like competitiveness and, you know, some of like the, I mean, the thing that always stands out to me with the Will Shipley pick is when they came into the podium and how he was like, this guy's even competitive about his grade point average. And it's like, I don't know if that matters at all for anything that's moving like with like anything about his NFL projection has to do with like the fact that he really cared about school too. You know what I mean? Like if you're overweighting that, I do think,

I think there's an argument to be made they have overweighted it based off of the players we know check the Red Star program box. By definition, you are, when you draft someone, you like him more than everybody else.

Yeah. Right? So that, that's part of the deal. And maybe you look for reasons why that is. I just, I think it's less about

overweighing the Red Star and more just about overweeting how much you know about the person. Yeah. And that's not to denigrate the scouting process because it's hugely important. And they've done a great job.

Like we said. Even if you know more about a guy than everybody else does, you still don't know the full picture. You're still talking about a 23 year old, you know. Yeah, but it's not their, it's not their personalities that have led to them not being great players. Like if anything, that is like the bet you make, that's like part of the Jalen Hertz bet, right? Which was like, whatever his feeling is, he's going to find it. I just think like if you're if you feel that way

you still need to know what the ceiling is for a player like Sydney Brown or Will Shipley you know like yes whatever their ceiling is they probably will find it but if their ceiling's limited which is why most teams didn't want to draft them higher than the Eagles then you have to put that as part of the equation as well

I think I would I would think I would never use a second or third round pick on a safety I think that's fair I just think it's I mean well like if the Eagles It's drafted like Nikki Manwari or Xavier Watts. We'd feel differently. Yeah, that's true. Jonas Nanker.

I think. I think I would go, here's how, here's where, this is how my experience covering the Well, that's the thing. Has shaped my safety. I'm sorry. Go ahead. It is also worth noting that the Red Star part of this is Sydney Brown and Drew McCuba were both outside of the consensus value.

Yes. Yeah. And they were like, they made those picks. They were like that triggered a. safety a run on safeties. Yeah. Yeah, they they jumped consensus on those picks and you look at the track record of the the other picks, you know, Devante the clear consensus pick. Lennon Dickerson was close to that. Milton Williams was close to that. Jordan Davis absolutely was. It was him and Kyle Hamilton. Cam Juergens was actually a little bit astray. So yeah, that's one.

Nicoby was the, you know, the top guy on the board. Jalen Carter is a top guy on the board. Nolan Smith is the top guy on the board. Steen was like sort of in a cluster, but Quinyon was, Dijin was Jalix was more of a scouting hit Yeah But most of those picks were guys who were Okay everybody agrees That this is like the next best prospect on the board

Yeah and so maybe the lesson is Especially at safety Consensus Yeah maybe don't stray too much Well you hear that like the Eagles value Consensus big boards more than some teams And that's why a lot of times they like get good grades Coming out of the drafts

Because they like the people that the consensus likes So yeah I think that that could be part of it I just I think my So what I was going to say is my like philosophy on safeties after watching the Eagles drafting safety experience over the last, you know, better part of a decade. If you're going to draft a safety early, draft them like Kyle Hamilton early. You know, like if you draft Kyle Hamilton number 14 overall, don't wait in like the early day two waters of safety because yeah, the hit rate's not going to be as good. But usually those guys who go really early, I mean, I'm trying to think now, is there a safety that's gone like top?

20 that hasn't hit in the last few years. Jamal Adams. But like he's still like us. I mean, yes, he's not like the value you'd want, but he was still a starter, you know. I feel like there are a couple. Probably. Not thinking of who. Take a look.

Yeah. Take a break. Okay. I will report back on the other side of this break if there's a miss on safety. And we will then discuss the Cooper de Gene of it all and whether that changes the Eagles willingness to invite some uncertainty at the safety position. Oh boy, wouldn't you love to just lock in some certainty for a five-year period? Wouldn't that be great? Well, that's where Xfinity comes in because what if you could have reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi and keep

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Terrell Edmonds. I think if you're going to draft safety, it's almost like maybe more extreme than quarterback. Like if you're not drafted, if he's not good enough to be like a top 14, top 15 pick, then you're probably I think probably too risky. I think probably a little bit too cut and dry. You know what I mean though? Several of good day two safeties last year. Yeah, but like the hit rate is a little bit.

It's not quarterback level, but it is if they're not surefire enough to be top half of the first round, you are taking on more risks than you probably want to at that position in the second round. All right. So how much do you think Cooper de Jean is a factor? here in the way that Howie Roseman is thinking about building out this room and the idea that

when they're in base, which is, you know, still not that often. But for those handful of snaps every game, they can just move Cooper DeGine to safety and keep requal and on the outside. I think it's definitely something worth mentioning. It's worth considering when you look at if it is Marcus Epps or Michael Carter, it's like, oh man, but it, yes, like, my, the question I was going to ask you about this topic is how many, what percentage of the snaps do you think that Adori Jackson played last year because he was the one that was mostly replaced

by Cooper to Gene and base. I know he was hurt. Yeah, he was hurt and he got benched, but still, I think it's like a fair number, especially like Marcus Epps isn't the most durable player if it is him starting.

Like, how many snaps do you think Marcus Epps would be playing in the Eagles defense? Am I answering the Adori one or the Marcus Debrae? Well, I think the Adori one, but I think it is instructive with what you'd expect from my markus.

86% of the stats. 63%. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Now again, there were multiple factors there in this time. Yeah. But I do think it shows like it's not going to be like it's not like Marcus Ops on the field every single play. It means he's on the field for important plays. Absolutely.

But it does, I think, balances out how rare it is that they're actually in base. I mean, they play, they don't play base a ton, but I do think it is part of the equation. Yeah, but it's, yeah. Six or seven snaps a game. Six seven. Mm. Yeah, you can overstate it, but I do think that it is an important thing. Like the requal and signing means that you are getting all of those Cooper de Gene safety snaps in base.

Do you think there is, I feel like this is, you know, one we're going to be taught. It's a little bit tiresome, but do you think there is any chance that, let's say they land a nickel in the draft and they can actually think that Cooper de Gene's landing spot for this season is safety? What if it's like Mack McWilliams? Could Mac McWilliams have a good training camp? Could he earn that job? And he continued to hold space for Mac Mac Williams. I like Mac McWilliams.

Yeah, I think it's entirely possible. This time, well, not this time last year. Last summer, I really liked the idea of moving Cooper to Gene to Safety because of like the potential for him to be a Kyle Hamilton type player, Nick E. Manwari type player, where you're using his versatility as an asset. I don't think, I've cooled off on it a little bit because I think the Eagles really value Cooper dejean's ability, like, as a forced player on the edge, like at the line of scrimmage. And I think you kind of lose some of that in a Fangio system if he's at safety.

But I could see them getting creative. You know, I could see them being more creative with Cooper de Gene next year if they're not certain about that safety spot. Like maybe on high leverage downs, it is Cooper de Gene at safety. And let's call it Mac MacMick Williams in the slot. And you just feel like, okay, we can man up with everybody in Cooper to Jean's going to be covering, you know, in some. different making tight end here.

So yeah, I think that you could be more creative. The second and then they're just quote unquote interchangeable. I was going to say they're mirrored like Jonathan Gannon used to say with the nickel and the safety spot being mirroed. Big Garner. I like it. I like it. Yeah.

I think that I think you could see, especially with Rieke Wollen like as part of this group, I think you'll see more, you could see more creative combinations. You could see them because they're adding a lot of versatile pieces. You know, like with Michael Carter as a bigger part of their plans, yeah, you could, you could mix and match those guys in a way that could be really fun. I think, I think they still have work left to do. No, I just think that Cooper Jeans, let's just let them be the best safety of football, or the best nickel in football.

I agree with you, but at some point, this is kind of like the discussion we had about when Nacobie and Jahad Campbell were like fighting for one spot. At some point, you would say, like, creative defensive coordinator, a less proven defensive coordinator, but a creative one would probably find a way to get both of them on the field. Now, I actually, I'm not advocating for them to do that because I think Vic Fangio, the system that he runs, the system that he's convicted in and has experience calling is the priority there. But I think like if you were just looking at the Eagles personnel, you probably would say like, yes, Cooper DeGine's awesome at nickel, but like he can do more

so we can let him do more. You know what I mean? Like I'm not saying I'm making the argument, but you know, honestly by the time we get to trading camp, maybe I will be because I do think that there's an argument to be made. There's an argument to be made that Cooper DeGine is a difference-making player. Find ways to take advantage of that. You know, is he always best used as a nickel?

Can you move him to safety and get more value from that? So move him to safety at times. Do you think that the way that they think about Cooper DeGeneer will change in a post-Vick-Fanjo defense? I do. I do. I mean, if it's Jim Schwartz, you think you want him in safety. Yeah, you want him in the Malcolm Jenkins role. He'll be all over the field. He'll be like Kyle Hamilton, which is fun. It's cool. I like that. The Eagles defense probably won't be as good because Vic Fangio. It's funny. Like, I don't think, I don't think, I'm going to sound like a Euro snob here. So just bear with me. I don't think football fans usually think about it. Like the coach's system is more important than like the actual like players that are in the system. I think that Vic Fangio is a good enough coach where that's actually the case, where it's like you find the profiles that fit what he wants to do

because of the fact that like, again, it's a system that he is convicted in. It's a system that gives the defense a ton of advantages. And he calls incredible games out of it. So he can be, I wouldn't say he's rigid, but he can be less flexible than like a Nick Rallis, but that's fine because you have Vic Fangio.

You know what I mean? I guess, yeah. I guess that wasn't that you're a style. No, he's just like the, he's in my mind, he's always like the poster boy for like defensive coordinator that tries things, you know? Okay. I don't love Nick Rallis. Oh, you hate Nick Rallis.

I don't hate Nick Rallis. I like Nick Rallis. I wish I got to write a story about his brother before he left. Maybe he'll come back. Dallas Rales. No. I actually don't know what his name is. I just know he's got a cool story.

Okay. That wasn't that you're a style. I could have made it more Euro-Snap. You know, like soccer fans, we know that sometimes the manager system takes precedent over the players. Yeah, you have to have the right profiles. What accent are you going in here? That was just me being a Eurostop. I know, but I want you to give it one.

Oh, no. I'm not doing any more accents on this show. What's always sin? What was that? Was that British? Yeah. It was pretty good. I know.

All right. No accents for me. I'm retiring my accent. Anything else do you want to get off your chest on the same? safety position here. I thought you're going to ask me about my euro snobbery. No, I would expect them to add to the position, but I think Marcus Epps and Michael Carter are going to be the two big pieces.

Do we pay more attention to J.T. Gray? No, I don't think so. He really feels like a special teams guy. He's never started a game at safety in the NFL. Like, he feels like a, he feels like they will hope that he makes the team to be the new Sydney Brown, the new special teams. I mean, he's got two all pros and one pro bowl as a special teamer. He brings value there, but he didn't play very much last year.

So, yeah. I wouldn't, I would not, I would not say like, oh, man, I, I'd actually leave more space for Brandon Johnson. As like a sneaky, could he, could he make a run and make, earn that job? Interesting. I still wouldn't. I wouldn't. I mean, I love because on it, obviously. Yeah.

I think he is too small to play safety. I think he has to play nickel. Okay. I tend to agree with you. So, I think. they'll draft somebody, but I think it will be those two guys. Okay. All right. Good Grandpa Delpit though. That's fun. I like Grant Delpit. Remember where you heard it first. Always. This is the only place I hear things. That's right. All right. Time to take a quick break.

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True Mark Financial is federally insured by the NCUA and is an equal opportunity lender at MLS 404-938. Oh, whoa. The misophoniacs out there. Yeah, I don't know what that is, but I am not one of them. No, stop. I hate that stuff. I hate that stuff. Lindsay has to have a headphones on over there. She had to hear that like up close. Oh, I'm sorry. Ooh. No. Absolutely not. All right. I'll give that in the back pocket. No, don't throw it away. Let's get out of the right side. Throw it off the roof. It was good. It was really good. It was nice. We had a nice slow weekend. You know, last weekend. I felt like we were running around a lot. So we enjoyed the weather. Like we We went, we walked four miles with our neighbor, which was really fun.

You know. Just, just, hold on. What? Just you and the neighbor? No. You guys were carrying him or her? What do you mean? The way you made it sound.

We walked four miles with our neighbor. We met our neighbor. We share a driveway. So we met in the driveway. We only took, I only took, I didn't take Big P. He's a little too ornery. And our neighbor, they've got multiple dogs, but they've got this big German shepherd.

and like if you didn't see this German Shepherd like before in your life and you just caught it out of the side of your eye you would 100% think it was a bear like that's how big this dog is and so I only brought Pharaoh because Pharaoh loves everything and everybody loves Pharaoh

and yeah we ended up walking four miles it was nice but didn't you tell me before that he was with both neighbors no I didn't just just my one neighbor just the one neighbor yeah I don't know if they want to be named on the show so I'm not named it's the one who told you that they listened to the Irish

No, this was her husband. Got it. Yeah. But yeah, no, we had a nice walk. Otherwise, I just sat around, watched soccer, hung out with my wife. We went over for dinner at my dad's house yesterday. That was enjoyable. I heard some bad news about that.

We got to have a talk. That's all we're going to say about that. That's all we've got to say about that. Jalen would never. We did get into a debate at my dad's house, me and my niece and nephew. And I need like your instant reaction. Lindsay, you've got the mic. I need your question EJ told us before the show he's got a question for us for the B block. I want the chat to weigh in on this too because I don't I don't know if there's a consensus here so you guys both are familiar with the SpongeBob characters right yep I mean only barely what color is Squidward blue gray blue blue

Blue Squidward is which one the blue one the octopus the blue one Squidward what color is he green People say green. Green? My niece and my nephew said green and I was outraged. Like puke green. Pug green. That's nice. That's great for the kids out there.

I think he's blue. I mean, in that picture, he looks blue. So I think there's a chance that he has evolved over time so that the kids think he's green. He is a blage, honestly. But it was like, like my niece and nephew are old enough now where they can start to like not believe everything that I tell them. you know so it's like i'm like squidward is blue and they're like no he's not like you're being ridiculous and i'm like no you're being ridiculous so i got into an argument with a 10 and a five-year-old blue wow literally on a scale of one to 10 how well do you think that question

delivered i wasn't trying to deliver it i was just trying to find an answer this is this is what was discussed about ej he builds things up a lot i do that aren't that big deal i never said it was a big deal. I just said I have a question for you guys. I got a question for you guys. No, I didn't do that. I didn't do that. You did. And you also said, I'm not going to ask you now because I want you to react live. I did. I wanted the real.

I didn't want you to have time to think about it. If only I had if only I had had forethought to think about what color Squidward was. It would have helped you because you didn't even know who Squidward was. I have a thing I'd like to discuss. Oh, don't build it up too much.

Well, this is an extension of our group chat with French. Oh, okay, yeah, that's fine. Lindsay, how do you, how do you use and interpret the exclamation point reaction to texts? What do you, what do you use that for? You text something and someone gives it the exclamation point. Like you really agree with it. Yes. See, this is a generational thing. This is interesting. I think this is a generational thing. I use it as like, oh, wow, like, like what an exclamation point is actually used for. Yeah, because there But it says, when you click it, it says emphasized. So that's why I take it as like, I'm blowing this up.

Like, yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. If I would hit the exclamation point on what Lindsay just said and you wouldn't. Yeah. Fran and Bow or. That's what the 100 is for. Yeah, Franon, but nobody used.

See, this is a thing. You're a late adopter to the tap back because the 100 wasn't available when it first came out. Okay. So you guys. You guys, oh, yeah, I use the, I use this for that. What you use the exclamation for, I use the like, the like face for the circle mouth where he's shocked. That's what I use. But yeah, because Bo and Fran were teasing me.

They're like, EJ's use of exclamation points is so off base. Like, it just never makes sense. And I was like, Bo's use of exclamation points never makes sense to me. Like, it'll be like something serious and you'll be like, yeah. Because I'm not saying. Yeah, hell yeah. You just got on an accident. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe.

No, I think it, maybe this is generational. Because Shield's big on the crying, laughing face emoji reaction. And I never understand that because just hit ha ha. Like, what's the difference? I feel like you got to reserve that for like, that was really funny. Ha ha, or crying laughing face. Yeah, you know what? I'll use the crying laughing face emoji if I am just like rolling.

If it's like, oh my God, not literally rolling figuratively. you know like if it is like oh my god this is like the funniest text i've ever seen in my life yeah you have a lot ha's you have a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha is like a little bit better than l-ol yeah no you go you go you go ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oh yeah but that's you'll go you'll go like five six has deep see i like that because then it shows you how much i was laughing you know if it's only three i wasn't laughing it wasn't an actual this again goes back to you are an easy grader uh yeah if you get that if you get that Ha ha ha h from me. I'm laughing. That's pretty good. Yeah. See, I and if I get a triple that is that's like now that's you're an odd texter and I say this like I lovingly like you're saying that sending ha ha ha means that you're laughing at

something. Ha ha ha. Then I'm really laughing. Ha ha ha. I send that I'm laughing at a ha ha. I send that at the end of every text because I've got that millennial awkwardness where I feel like I have to end it with like something to soften whatever I said. All right. Let us know in the comments. How do you how do you, how do you, the exclamation reaction. Is that, you know, agreeing? Look how many ha-haz I got from my wife, and this wasn't even funny. And in all caps as well. Yeah.

She appreciates that I took the chicken out of the oven last night when she went to bed. And she said, thank you for taking care of the chicken. And I don't know why that made me laugh, but it did. Keep taking care of that chicken. Take care of that chicken. Take care of that chicken. Getting it done in and out of the studio. That's not where I was going

But I will love that in Ernie and Estes clip That is great I live Yeah keep taking care of that chicken Okay Yeah let us know how you use it Do you use it for I agree with that I voted in this poll I don't care

Or Wow This is interesting I wish we could do it like age I didn't even know that that was a thing Well yeah because you called me out You called me on the group chat Let's see it's

That's not what an exclamation point is. It's, it kind of is, though. But then what do you think? When it says emphasize. Yeah, emphasizing like, wow. That's crazy. CDP says he only uses it sarcastically. Everyone isn't.

D. Flyer said he had a guitar question. I would field that question. Okay. I also like this. The exclamation point is also known as the bang operator in coding. according to Kyle Schneider-Locker. Oh, when you do like the exclamation

emoji, when it like translates it to words, it says bang, bang. Really? And you know what that makes me think of? Yeah, go on. Chris Jenkins. When Jay Ray said, bang. I mean,

without a doubt the coolest reaction anyone's ever had to anything. And like, and like, not fake. Yeah. That's him. Like he wasn't trying to be like, oh, I'm cool.

cool like yeah he wasn't going for the catchphrase just happened would never be a coach who's like jumping up and down like how dan hurley throws tantrums on the court i'll be honest his crew is not my favorite for the march badness games is what the crew that they have with him on it for the march madness games is he with raftery i thought he wasn't doing games anymore i could have swore i heard him last night and i was like this crew's got no juice i don't think he was doing cam okay maybe it was him what game was it was i think it was the peru game last night i can't remember um this is bad by bad by But I was like this game's got no juice. I went to the two biggest events in the area this weekend.

Friday night went to the March Madness games. Mm-hmm. How was that? Wells Fargo. It was not fun. The boxing league? I were going to go to that. Oh, yeah, I also went to that.

It was a lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. You had your hoodie. That's right. Yeah. And then yesterday went to the bigger event, the Lori Berkner, concert in New Jersey. Oh, that was not.

Oh, really? Wait, I was like, why do I recognize that name? Oh, my gosh. I took the, I took both girls. Lori Berkney. Both girls. You don't know who this is. We had, well, it was fan. What a, what a show she put on. That was great.

Well, you think you took both girls makes me realize why I don't know who this is. I was going to say, like, I was expecting this to be like a Celine Dion variant that I wasn't aware of or something. This is, you know, she's coming for Rafi's crown. essentially this is the next generation Rafi

I don't know who Rafi is either I was gonna say you definitely don't know who Rafi is either we're talking like Miss Rachel category yes okay proto yeah but prodo what does that mean wait is Rafi the Ram Sam Sam song Chipmunk at a gas pump was

she killed it now I would she saved Victor Vito for the final medley which was good but I would have I would have liked a full Victor Vito those are my two those are my two favorite. Can you sing Victor Vito? I feel like I've heard this. Yeah, because remember I brought up with Nick Benito. Yes. Okay. So I know that one then. Just like I know the Camugroger Rouge Hill song. Just it's like burned in my brain forever. And you say I'm not a sicko.

Camel Grosier Hill song gets sung in my house on a biweekly basis. One of my. It's a great song. Contributions to the world, I would say. To the world. It says the man with three kids. All right. Let's head to Berkner time. It said I had Eagles topics that I wanted to get there

and we just just started chatting. We don't have to get to them. Same for tomorrow. You want to give me one and give me one. You really want it? You really want one? Come, come, come, come, come, come.

Oh, yeah. Now we're talking. He'll be the will. He'll be the will. Brings back memories. Go ahead. You do it better than we do it. We don't sing it that convicted.

Tyler Brown, the Eagles Special Team's assistant, is on the Pro Day tour. He was at UNC's Pro Day today. That's courtesy of our friend, a friend of the pod, our friend, Mike Kay. Never heard of him. That's not nice. Mike Kay, Charlotte, Charlotte,

Carolina Panthers Beat Reporter, lives in Charlotte. Let me know. I thought about this. This is a good. Mikee. Yeah, I like that Like a good like a natural Tom Mish

Yeah Yeah There's a good There's some some subtle timeish vibes But yeah shout out to Mike For texting me about that today Eagles eat a long snapper So maybe he's on the pro day circuit

Might trying to find one Madison Now I'm trying to think of famous Mikeies Mike Moore Yeah Mikey Moore You know he's a soccer player Mike Kay Bechton No that that one doesn't work

Someone says I'm not a sick one I'm just a head cold That's pretty good I'll take that one on the chin We have poll Oh no the poll didn't go my way 67% of respondents Say they use it as 67

2 thirds Say they use it as a wow one third use it the way that you and Lindsay use it that's because you've you've curated an audience of old people yeah uh you know what you know you say old people you know what I say people who know Lori Barker demographic for advertisers is it yes I didn't I didn't realize that you must be reading some new studies the buyers okay so all of you out there who want to hit the most important demographic

there's conclusive proof that we've got them oh man didn't realize that that was what we had what we had curated here I thought we were dealing with the 20 to 29 range we'll take them too

yeah I mean they're not watching us well they need to be old at heart Yeah, I'm an old soul. I'm only 31, but I act old. Feel old. Got to do the backstretches now. It's tough. Okay.

And so the Tyler Brown thing? I had a... What do we know about UNC's special teams talent? And why are the Eagles scouting people if they've just committed to Jake Elliott and Braden Man? Oh, they need a long snapper. Like I said, he's probably trying to find the next Rick Levato. Next Charlie Hewlett. Okay.

You let the dogs out It's okay It's pretty good Oh man that's Aces Did we have D-Flyers It's our question? I don't think we did Oh we have a super check

Don't we? Oh okay It's actually on a super chance It's just a super share From Butterboy Very nice generous donation Thank you Butterboy says It's been a while

Since I've watched live No question Just wanted to send something Shout out to Butterboy Are you like a... Now, what do you think the etymology of Butterboy is? You think he just loves butter? No, I don't think so.

You think he loves everything Butter Boy? Oh, I like that. Yeah, okay, let's go with that one. I was going to say maybe he's just like... Maybe he's one of those butter artists. I don't think he's made of butter. Maybe he likes a fancy butter. Maybe he likes like a Kerry Gold butter.

Are you a carry gold guy? I don't mind a carry gold, but you can get even fancier than that. You get some real fancy butter. Like a French. Like a... I mean, like, when I think of like a French butter, I think of like basically like... I mean, it's like very soft. And it's basically like falling apart in the container.

Yeah. You get me a high quality soft butter. Basically just like Brie. It's like Brie adjacent. And a baguette. I'm good for months. You have to come to Westchester because we have a French bakery in Westchester. I mean, I'm giving them for advertisement.

Oh, here we go. It's a lot. baguette magic and that place the baguettes that they sell there the baguettes they sell there are better than some of the baguettes we've had in France it's like s here in Paris a tier in westchester I mean truly nothing better than than bread and butter yeah we we got a baguette I'm never giving up bread we got a baguette we got some carry gold out and then we have like this like big flaky sea salt put that on top you get the mortons oh my god i mean the um not the what's it called um it's not diamond crystal right oh that's the barbecue salt my good

what's my good sea salt my good sea salt he says no that's fancy moldins maldens maldens yeah that's the stuff i don't know what it is it's in a fancy container in our house it's very elegant shout to maldance shout to julia for doing that you want to hit that you want to hit that sweet spot audience the buying power we can make something happen the most important demographic and advertising that's true I thought it was 20 to 29 that's I mean it depends on your company but like this is where the purchasing power is okay all right I'm gonna take your word for it I mean I love our audience I wouldn't change them I wouldn't make them younger yeah that would be weird let's get out of

here before I get myself in trouble all right thanks for watching everybody we will see you tomorrow at two o'clock. Thanks to E.J., thanks to Lindsay. Thanks to Lori Berkner. We will see you tomorrow. And as always, let us know what you think about the exclamation points and we love you.