PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles seven-round mock draft: Will Howie Roseman BE AGGRESSIVE to rebuild OL? | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Could Howie Roseman try to find another Jalen Hurts in the middle rounds of the NFL Draft? Will Kenyon Sadiq make it to the Eagles at No. 23? Could Kadyn Proctor or Max Iheanachor be a true Lane Johnson succesor? Or will they add a wide receiver to replace A.J. Brown? With the NFL Draft fast approaching and owners meetings now behind us, EJ Smith is offering his first seven-round, all-Eagles mock draft up for criticism from All-City draft savant Fran Duffy. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. We are live from the Infinity Mobile Studio and presented by our good friends at Ashley and Bet365. I am your host, E.J. Smith. I don't get used to saying that. I'm your host, E.J. Smith, and I am joined by the Duffman. I'm very excited to do this today's show. I have a seventh round, or seven-round All-Eagles mock draft that Fran is just going to probably eviscerate today. And I am excited. for that. You know, we're going to use this as a good exercise of, you know, getting the draft stuff started. You know, we'll go through position by position preview. And I wanted to get a mock draft on the board early and then go through the process of watching more and more of these guys and then see how much

it changes. So we hope we'll have that. We are also, we will also be joined by Jeremy Fowler at some point during the show to discuss the story that him and Tim McMahon has had on ESPN.com yesterday. And just, you know, general, some Eagles news to discuss as well. So it's a pack show. But first and phone was Fran. How are we doing? Doing great. Excited to be back. It's a lot. We got a lot to cover. I mean, obviously there was the big art. You and Les, I thought, did a great job of really breaking down that article from TMAC, from Tim McManus and Jeremy Fowler yesterday on yesterday's show. So everybody make sure you go back and if you want to make sure you digest that entire conversation, but I know we'll hit on that after the first break. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It's always

good to see him less. I did enjoy the conversation. You know, when you're sleep depressed, Like sometimes they say that, uh, you'll think you're doing a great job at something, but you're actually doing terribly. You know, that was like me after yesterday's show. I was like, I think that was a good show. And then like on the way home, I didn't make sure to listen back to make sure I didn't sound like a deranged or anything like that, getting off the red eye flight. So, so yeah, I want to, I want to go through a couple of the, my early picks here on the mock draft before we get into, uh, the interview with Jeremy Fowler and talking about our thoughts on that piece that we, that we read yesterday. So it's an all Eagles mock draft. We're not going to go through every team. The parameters that I would explain here are that, you know, this is a mock draft simulator, people. I wasn't me deciding who was going to be there at these various picks. And I would say that the other thing is there were a couple of times where there maybe was a player

that would have like jumped out on the board. Like, oh my goodness, I can't believe this guy's available in the third or the fourth round. I would pass on those players because I was trying to keep it realistic to a certain degree. Now, Fran, you are more familiar with some of these players' draft ranges than me. So I will be curious what you think of some of these. And I also wanted to list for a lot of the notable picks, some of the other players I considered heavily at those spots. Okay. Make sense?

How do we feel about the exercise? I mean, I'm just excited to eviscerate your mock draft. Like, this is going to be very fun. Trying to do it in one round. Sorry, in one, like one singular mock using the simulator is tough because, like you mentioned, like, there's sort of. randomness involved. Not every single mock draft simulator is up to snuff when it comes to like what reality potentially would look like, but expect the unexpected when it comes to the NFL draft as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, the first one you're not going to have an issue with.

So we'll say at number 23, the Philadelphia Eagles select Caden Proctor, offensive lineman, Alabama. I think this is a pretty stock standard one. You know, this is a player we've discussed a lot on the show. it's a player that I think makes a lot of sense for the Eagles. He checks a lot of boxes at the Eagles. Typically like to check with their first round pick from draft pedigree, starting experience, positional versatility and athleticism. The size and athleticism,

the combination there. Obviously, it's a little bit more of a projection on what he might look like in a post Jeff Stoutland world with the Eagles. But I think this is a season, an offseason where the Eagles are going to really need to bolster their offensive line depth. And I think Caden Proctor,

drafted him, you might, you would probably see a runway for him to start at right guard right away in place of Tyler Steen. So for me, we can talk about some of the other players I considered here. Yep. But for me, he really jumped out on the board as a player, I think is somewhat realistic to fall to 23 for the Eagles there. Yeah, I think at the end of the day when you're looking at it, this is a, this is certainly one of the most popular consensus picks for the Eagles at 23 overall and for good reason, all the things that you just laid out. I do think it's important. And, you know, I'm glad that Lindsay flighted that graphic of, you know, one of my notes from my final summary of Caden Proctor is that he is, while he is very high up on my board, he is far from

a sure thing. And so that's the thing when I, you know, that's why what I say like, here's my vertical board and look at the horizontal board and read the reports, like, you know, just because I have one guy 11 and one guy 13 and one guy 16, they might be on the same tier of a horizontal board. And, you know, if you're saying like, okay, I feel really good. about this player reaching, you know, that certain level of play and that level of impact. And this one, maybe there's a little bit of a chance that he has a higher impact, but the floor is much lower and the chance of him reaching that ceiling is a little bit scarier. That's kind of what we're talking about with Caden Proctor.

I do think that there's a lot of volatility involved. Would I feel better about it if Jeff Stahlellan was in the building? Absolutely. If Jeff Staling gives his stamp of approval there, I feel a lot better about the overall outcome and the likelihood of him reaching that ceiling. Now, there's reason to believe that, yeah, like the Eagles should still have confidence in their ability to get the most out of a player like Caden Proctor. They've taken big swings at other development, you know, other developmental type of players in the past at different positions. And they've been able to hit without Jeff Stalind directly in, you know, coaching that specific player.

Right. So, you know, I don't think that they would necessarily be scared off of a Caden Proctor solely based off that. But you would certainly feel better with having Jeff Stowland in the building. That said, I mean, the ceiling sky high. with Caden Proctor. And there would be a lot of reasons to be excited about that pick. Absolutely. Do you think, how do you think the Eagles?

Well, two-part question, I guess. How do you think they feel about his positional versatility? You know, I know the Eagles, like, at least in the past, they've been, they've pushed back on like the sentiment you will hear a lot, which is that, oh, well, if he fails to tackle, that's fine. You just bump, but you give him a chance to fail at tackle, then you bump him to guard. You know, like, that's something that I hear a lot said, like in the pre-draft process about certain players. I don't get the sense

that Eagles love that framing. Like, you know, you don't want them to fail anywhere. How do you think they'll view his positional versatility in terms of a plus or a minus? And also, I guess, you know, I guess how do they feel like internally? But then also, how would they present it? If Caden Proctor is the pick, when Howard Rosen's

at the podium, what is he saying about his positional versatility? Yeah, my guess is, is that they would look at it as he probably gets announced as offensive linemen, which I believe they did with Tyler Steen, They did. Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah. Right. Okay. I'm pretty sure they did that with Steam as well. And I think that when you're probably announcing it as offensive linemen and in the post draft press conference, I think the way that they, you know, the way explain it is, yeah, we do expect that he's going to come in and try and compete for a role right away. But we do view his long term future at tackle. That would be my guess is how they were trying to frame it. And I do agree with the sentiment from a certain extent when it comes to like, you don't want a guy to fail because that's hard. We know, especially.

in a market like this, it is hard to go and fail early on at any position and then try and bounce back from that. Not a lot of guys do. And honestly, there's been a lot of research into like, that's why guys that miss their rookie year due to injury, you know, guys that maybe they suffer an injury during the pre-draft process and they have to redshirt that first year. Bouncing back from that mentally is harder than anything. And so being able to really kind of bounce back from those kinds of things can be very difficult. And you, might want to say like let's set him up for the best success that we can early on in his career and there's a lot of people that would that would say like the best long-term spot for Proctor

is at guard. Okay. Yeah, that's I've never heard it explain like that before. That like early career failure is just a hard thing to overcome for especially your draft of the guy in the first round. Like my mind immediately goes to Andre Dillard. Like you know, like you're playing on the right side of the offensive line early in his career and finding out he really was uncomfortable doing it you're right you know that you want to set these guys up for success so do you think the fact that proctor may be viewed as a guard only for the eagles or at least if you want him to be set up for success starting along starting in the interior do you think that that would be maybe a factor against him at 23 here you know it would depend on who else they have valued at a similar

tier that's still on the board like if you let's say they have sadiq as a similar kind of grade and can you sneak's on the board and maybe you feel a little bit bit better about his ability to reach his ceiling. And it's at a quote unquote, like a maybe not as premium a position as offensive tackle. But if he's going to, if you're going to take a tight end that high, he's going to be a featured part of your past game. Like, all right. So you're talking to a potential like, you know, wide receiver one, wide receiver two, level of player, level of impact. Then yeah, you might say like give me Sadiq, if we feel a little bit better about what that long term and short term fit is. Man, I didn't think that this one's going to make me like waiver a little bit.

But that explanation right there, like, I viewed Proctor as a, he can play right guard next to Lane Johnson and maybe he bumps out and you feel good about it type of player. But now that we're talking through it, so let's let's talk about the other players I consider because I think that this is a good segue into it. First one, Dylan Thineman, which I thought would be kind of fun. And, you know, we can we can talk about safety. Well, let's just do it now. I think this, I had a lot to say about this actually. So going before owners meetings, I would have said, I don't think that they're drafting Theneman. I don't think they're going with a safety early.

Okay. I'm not saying I think it's going to happen. Right. I'm putting more turkeys on it than I was. Interesting. The way that Nick Siriani and Howie Roseman talked about the safety position out there was just, it was different than what I would have expected. I would have expected, especially Nick, to be like Marcus Epps played good football for this team. We have a lot of confidence in him.

Michael Carter. He wasn't going to say Michael Carter was moving to safety because that gives away information. but, you know, like we feel good about the guys we have in the room and we can continue to add. The fact that it was very front of mind for both Nick Siriani and Hallie Roseman at, you know, this is an incomplete evaluation at that position. You know, we still have moves to make. You know, Hallie Roseman said we will add at that position. You know, that doesn't sound to me like a day three safety.

That doesn't sound to me like a day three pick. That sounds like, you know, not significant investment, but meaningful investment for a player that can compete to start for that safety spot opposite Drew Bacuba. maybe you're thinking like a trade for a veteran but i've i think that a first round safety if they felt like this is a difference making player i put like 15 turkeys on it i put more turkeys on it than i would have a week ago and i think phenomen is probably the one that would make it to them at 23 of those guys expected to go on the first round so how do you how would you feel about that if he was the one of my my mock draft here you know i probably would have ripped you um yeah i think

I think that, I'm assuming Sadieke was off the board. We can get it to that. We don't have to answer that now. But I think that, I don't know, man. To me, if you're going and we've talked, we've had this conversation ad nauseum, but if they're going to go defense, I really feel like the only position I would do that for would be a pass rusher, you know, just in terms of like level of impact. I like, I like Dylan Thingman.

I like Emmanuel McNeil Warren. I think there's a safety from Toledo. Yeah, do you think he'll be there at 23? Which one? McNeill Warren. I think he's more likely to be there than Thineman. Okay. Yeah, I do think that he's probably more likely.

Thineman has been like the very chic pick amongst the, you know that I do like the the consensical. Mock draft. I can chart all of the sharp mock drafts, right? Like so, yeah, the Darren Jeremiah's, the Dane Bruevoof. That has been like one of the very like consensus picks that happened after pick 12, 15. Now, here's the thing, though. This happens every year, right, where you get into like pick 18, pick 21.

pick 27 and there's a player and a team that almost always getting married together and every single mock drafter puts that player on that team very rarely does that pick actually happen like very rarely so um i'm not to say like Minnesota is definitely not taking taking dylan thinaman but uh pretty much every mock draft like last year at this time it was jihad campbell going to the bucks jihad campbell wasn't on the buck's board by the time we got the draft weekend so i think and obviously they passed on him so um you know i think that when uh when you look at that yeah there's a reason to believe that the team and could be there, but I kind of lean that he won't at the end of the day. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I just, and how do you feel about the safety thing? Do you, I mean,

first down safety feels very unlikely, but where else are they going to get a guy that they can truly feel like walks in day one and competes for that job? You know, I'm going to be honest, there was the show that I think it was, was it the three of us or was that you and Bo did together? I think it was you and Boe did the show where you talk about like trade candidates at different positions like yeah I actually really like the the grant elpit uh I think that and I think that was from Bo I really liked that one um that was to me is a it's kind of a sneaky uh all right like regime change uh kind of set up for Jim shorts to take over in 2027 anyway I get one of his uh his former pupils there so um I do like that one you know I

think that to me like the veteran market does feel better in that sense but you know you let the draft come to you and see if it's it is a good safety draft. It is a legitimately good draft for safeties. There are two or three names that we're talking about in the first round. I think you get into day two and there's two or three more. So if one of those guys falls to you in the second

round, third round that you feel good about, that's great. I still would be a little bit queasy about having two really young guys at that position, Nakuba and this rookie. But, you know, I think that's something to maybe they cross that bridge when you get there. Yeah, yeah. So Kenyon and, honestly,

well, no, Kenyon Saddick was the one for me that he was available in the simulator that I did. I didn't feel great about him being available there. It felt like because then you get yourself in like, oh, yeah, I just drafted the player that's way above everybody else on the board here. So he was on the board for me. Blake Miller was on the board for me. Casey Concepcion was and Omar Cooper was around that pick as well. I'm curious if any of those guys, obviously, Sadiq is one that jumps out to you probably, but if any of those guys, you would have said, okay, if they were also on the board, you should have went there instead of Caden Proctor.

Sadiq would be the one for me. You know, and I think that, you know, a Concepcion, I think he could swing me on as well. I do like, I like his game. I think that he could play inside and outside. I think that he makes sense in a A.J. Brown world and in a post-A. Brown world in terms of making that addition. So I would be good there. Sadiq is the one, though, where I'm like, man, to get that level of impact, I think

you could swing me there. Of course, I lean more towards, you know, an offensive tackle in that. But to me, like, you know, it's the, whenever I have these position value conversations and I explain it in like my big board or something in the newsletter, just because a guy has OT next to his name versus a guy that has TE next to his name doesn't mean that you automatically take the OT because it does come down to the individual evaluations. And if you feel that Kenyon Sadiq is more of a sure thing to reach his ceiling versus Proctor, because we have all the questions we talk about with Proctor, you can get me there. Because I do love Kenyon Sadiq. I love what he brings to the table. Off the field, I feel good. You know, I think he could be a much more productive pro, which, by the way, you know,

people say that all the time at tight end that happens more often than not. You know, where we see guys in college at tight end that don't produce that home don't have big numbers, but they've got all the traits and then they get into the league and they're able to figure it out and be productive pro. So, you know, I feel good about that with Sadiq. Yeah, you know, so again, I mostly didn't go Sadiq there because I just, it feels like a lot of these mock draft simulators like are slow. to catch up on a player that I think he's going to go top 15. So I'm not trying to be unrealistic here.

But to your point, you know, we, we, I think it was a show with Olivia last week, where we talked about if you had to choose between Caden Proctor and Kenyon, who do you choose? I actually do lean Cidique. And my argument was we've seen what Sean Mannion's, you know, offensive staff that he's worked on have done with tight ends. Tucker Craft is the example there. And I think that he opens up.

some like schematic versatility for this offense, you know, to be able to be multiple, to have two, three tight ends on the field, which you know I'm always a big fan of. And, you know, have some versatility in that room. And honestly, like, you know, Kenyon-Saddyke is the Dallas Goddard successor is a perfect succession plan and one that the Eagles typically have prioritized, having, you know, a difference maker, difference maker in waiting at that position. So I didn't go with him mostly because I just feel like, I feel like he's that this year's Michael Williams, where by the time that we're at draft weekend, he will.

will never be past the 15 pick on mock drafts. But, you know, a trade up, maybe, maybe, you know, especially if maybe you're not convinced by some of these offensive tackle prospects. So, all right. Can I give you one suggestion for the next time we do this exercise? Because we still have, yeah, so we still have three weeks until the draft. I'm sure we can do another one of these. Oh, yeah, for sure.

Do like four or five iterations of the, of the simulation. And then it's like, all right, at 23, you know, I did five, I did five rounds of this. guy was available. If a guy is there, three out of the five or four out of the, you know, whatever benchmark you want to set, then you feel good making the pick. And it's like, it's not as random. Okay. I do like that. Yeah, maybe, uh, listen, I'm going to be doing a couple more mock drafts. And I, this is, um, this will be a good formative experience for me, watching you react to each of my picks. So I'm very excited. I've got, I would say maybe one surprise coming up, uh, and one player I really want to talk to you about. So we're going to take

our first break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk Jalen Hertz. We're going to be joined by Jeremy Fowler. And then we'll get back to the mock draft. So let me know in the chat, what you think of the Proctor versus Sadiq debate. And we will be back in a few minutes. If you love the NFL draft, then this is your edge. The diehard NFL draft guide is built and based off of thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, shrine bowl, senior bowl, combine, talking to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best going to fit and project in the NFL. We're talking hundreds of players in this class. There is no comparison. This is the best draft guide for Eagles fans. You get player comp,

you get all the data, and you get Fran's insight. And here's the bottom line. There is nobody in the entire world who is better suited to be an NFL draft expert and an Eagles expert and my good friend, Randolph. All right, so what are you going to find in the guide? Well, you're going to find player cops. You're going to find strengths, weaknesses, physical tools, analytics, highlights, analysis from all across the space, everything you need to try and determine who are the best players for your team. You get access to the guide if you're a diehard and you'll also get access to a couple of individual breakdowns I'm doing specifically for your team. All right, look, if you want surface level breakdowns, you can get them anywhere, but if you want independent thought, if you want

thorough breakdowns on all of these prospects, become a diehard, get the guide. Or you can get access to the 2026 guide for just $26. Let's win draft season. Do you really want to Jalen Hertz returning punts? What about Devante Smith playing nose tackle? Of course not. It's not worth to risk, the time, or the money. You keep your stars focused on what they do best, and the same idea should apply to your business. For small and mid-sized businesses, competing with bigger companies isn't about working harder, it's about working smarter. With competition heating up, you can't afford to fall behind, and AI goes way beyond chat GPT. It can get overwhelming very quickly. That's why having a trusted guide like Togo matters. Instead of buying expensive AI tools,

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some of your main takeaways reading through Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus's piece about Jalen Hertz yesterday? Yeah. I mean, to me, first off, great reporting, you know, and being able to get stuff, not, not on the record, but, you know, get these quotes down, get this sourcing down on things that a lot of us have heard, certainly, you know, behind the scenes. And I think that, you know, I was listening to Chris Long on his, on Greenlight podcast today. And I think he summed it up well where after reading that piece, you don't feel differently about Jalen Hertz than you did in the Eagles offense and the Eagles organization than you did beforehand. Personally, for me, right? Because this is all stuff that we've kind of known about.

But again, it was, I think important to like get stuff like on paper and like kind of have, have it out there for for everything, for everybody. Because we know that there are people in the building that feel this way. But it's as we have talked about, to me, like, there are multiple things that can be true, right? You could say, like, yeah, like, Jaylon needs to be more open to, you know, to certain aspects of offensive football and being willing to adapt and be willing to change. And I also think it's incumbent upon coaches to get him to that point, right? like to work in that like that kind of like symbiotic relationship to say like yeah like this is better

for the entire operation this is better for you if we can continue to kind of massage this into the game into the game plan so you know i'm of two minds with it um to me it didn't move the needle in terms of like how i did how i view the office because that's this is kind of how i've always viewed the entire dynamic i and i think you you and less kind of hit on that as well yesterday yeah and we'll we'll make this the big takeaway presented by Xfinity. I would say that my big takeaway here, you know, especially watching kind of the reaction play out is the kind of the

what's next that we touched on a little bit with less. And, you know, in the conversation we have with Jeremy that you guys are watching a minute here. I do think that he said something that aligns with something that I believe as well, which is that I think that we are going to see a slightly different version of Jalen Hertz next year. you know, maybe, maybe not totally receptive to every change that the coaching staff pushes. I don't think he'll ever be that person.

But I think the crossroads, as they put it, that Jalen finds himself in, I think he has to be more receptive to change, more open, and honestly different in how he's been in the locker. I think that that process was already starting toward the end of last year. I don't see him both facets. You know, obviously I wrote a story about how some players in the Eagles locker room felt that Jalen was more open and more, you know, had less of the force. field around him that he had had earlier in his career. And I think, you know, the undercenter stuff, the motion stuff, like the Eagles did more of that stuff toward the end of last season. So, you know,

I think that both of those things, as far as looking at next year ago, I think that you will see a different version of Jaylen, how successful they are is going to be the bottom line there, you know, and I think that is a bigger question. It's harder to project. But I do think at least behind the scenes, a lot of the stuff that, you know, was reported in the story, is reflective of how it has been. But I do think that, you know, I actually would say I would expect more change in those areas moving forward. But I think the other big thing, and it's something we've talked about on the show, you know, over the course of this season, was that, you know, this is not unique to Jalen Hertz and to the Philadelphia Eagles offense, right? Like, this is, these are the same things you heard

with, ironically, Matt LaFleur and Aaron Rogers. This is the same thing you hear with Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow. We've heard this with lots of quarterbacks, successful quarterback, over the years where, you know, the coach wants to do, you know, wants to live one way and the quarterback does not want to live this way, you know, for one factor or another, whether it's comfort, whether it's preference, whatever it is. But like I said, it kind of takes two to tango, right? Coaches have to be able to reach and connect with those players and coach, and players have to also be coachable, right? And so trying to find that, that common ground, try and find that, that middle of the Venn diagram, I think is really what, if you are Jeffrey Lurie and Howard Roseman,

And if you're an Eagles fan, you're hoping that that's where this addition of Sean Manion and some of the coaching turnover, they are able to reach Jalen Hertz and say like, hey, this is why this is beneficial. I know it's foreign. I know it's different. I know it's unique. I know you've had a lot of success and won Super Bowl MVP's and nearly won a second one back in 2022. We know this. But we need to evolve. We need to adapt because teams have evolved and adapted to us and have taken certain things away.

This offensive line is not what it once was. this run game was not what it was two years ago. So, you know, we need to be able to counterbalance that in other ways. And if you're not running the football, you know, as a as a quarterback, we need to be able to do these other things, right? We can't, it can't just be point and shoot football from the gun over and over and over and over again. Like that's not, that's not the way offenses win in 2026.

And so I do think that it will be big for, you know, for this marriage to work, that both sides and kind of meet in the middle. I think you just put that so perfectly because I've heard both sides of the argument now, which is like every quarterback has preferences, you know, Joe Burrow with the Bengals, they run their offense a certain way. They run their offense at a gun. They run a lot of empty and a lot of 11 personnel because Joe Burrow likes those things. Those are his preferences. And honestly, in Cincinnati, you could have a conversation about the effects that that's had on his health and just the flexibility of that offer. So that is not an uncommon thing.

But with Jalen, like the offense became so limited last year. that they have to find ways to be more flexible and more multiple. You know, it's something that Nick Siriani talked a lot about early in his careers, running what's best for the players, right? You can only do that if your quarterback is receptive to some of those things. So the truth lies somewhere in the middle, obviously. And I think you just laid that out very nicely. So good, good.

Yeah, I was going to say, it kind of reminds me just because we're in the middle of draft season. You know, I know that there are coaches in the NFL and have been coaches in the NFL, where they are very particular about the types of players. And this is general managers too. So I should say like coaches and general managers, decision makers in the league where it's, hey, you know what?

We want a certain kind of guy on our team, right? Like off the field, he has got to hit. We're not going to bend in any way when it comes to questions about off field and work ethic. And if there's any question whatsoever, nope, off the board. Like it will not fit. but also are going to be hyper strict when it comes to physical characteristics. Well, at the end of the day, if you are not going to bend in this way or this way,

you are going to have a draft board that is about this big. And so if that's like you can't operate that way or you're not going to be able to get the proper value on these players. And so again, you know, getting back to like Jalen Hertz, getting back to, you know, offensive coaching staff, you have got to be pliable. You've got to be adaptable. you've got to evolve. And so being able to kind of have that meeting in the middle, I think is going to be imperative here for this team.

Absolutely. All right. That's going to do it for the big takeaway presented by our friends at Xfinity. So let's go to the conversation with Jeremy Fowler. I appreciated him taking out some time to talk about the story. I saw some people asking about Tim McManus. Tim's on vacation, guys. So we love Tim here.

We are big fans of Tim, but we were very grateful to get Jeremy Fowler for a few minutes here. So, yeah, we'll hear from him next. And we are back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast and very excited to be joined by ESPN's Jeremy Fowler. You and Tim McMahonis had a good story on Jalen Hertz posted on ESPN.com yesterday. And I wanted to ask you a few questions about it. First and foremost, you know, reading through the story, you know, the sense that I got is that a lot of the people you spoke with felt like Hertz's responsibility for the way the Eagles offense looked, maybe wasn't fully recognized publicly. And I wanted to know if you think that's, is that a fair, fair thing? to say based off the conversations you had? I think it's probably fair. Just drawing from the impetus of the

story, which was during the season, obviously the passing game was struggling once again, and the AJ Brown dynamic was what it was. And we saw it every week on the sideline when he was frustrated. So we sought out to just figure out what was ailing the Eagles offense. And we were pretty open-minded at that point. And just the more people we talked to, the more Jalen came up in that equation with just for one, struggling to carry the load, you know, with an offense that was limited in the running game all of a sudden, you know, last year they were gashing everybody. And this year, the offensive line wasn't as good. The holes weren't really there for Saquan Barclay as often, you know, the 20 to 40 yard runs that he was breaking off every week weren't there. You know, AJ Brown kind of looked

to half steps low. Now, maybe part of that was because of what he was dealing with and his frustration with the setup there. But, you know, he didn't probably look like the same player in some respects. So, you know, you had an offense that it wasn't as good. They needed Jaylon to carry the load and be a quarterback who can help the team win because of his play, not with support around him. And, you know, that was a tricky proposition. So he did struggle at times. Your teams were taking away his dual threat ability a little bit, you know, drop him back into his own coverage and making him beat them with his arm, which he, at times his crew has done. But just given the last two years, it's been a bit of a struggle.

And so you combine that with some of the frustrations internally with his rigidity with the offense as far as what he wants to run, whether that's with play calls or preferences of being under center or in the shotgun, things like that. You know, just there's a combination of those factors. So there's plenty of blame to go around. It's certainly not all on him by any stretch. But he was he was prevalent enough in the answers to the questions we were asking that he became the story. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think, obviously, some of the more explosive details in the story are what gets circulated.

But I wanted to make sure I mentioned earlier here that I felt like the reporting that you and Tim did was very balanced. So I didn't come away from the story thinking, like, you know, there's only one person to blame here. So I appreciate that reporting there. You mentioned the rigidity. And, you know, somebody who has heard a lot from Jaylon, I've heard him say before, it's going to look the way Jalen wants it to look, right? And I'm sure you've heard like the pushback that most great quarterback. have preferences. And I'm curious from the conversations that you've had, how, how do you think Hertz's preferences compared to other quarterbacks across the league? Do you think that they are

maybe more extreme than others? Well, that's probably a sliding scale depending on freedom, certain quarterbacks have it, how good quarterbacks are, to be honest. You know, we know, Aaron Rogers has changed in plays and doing what he wants sometimes, right? I think that's pretty obvious at this stage. But in his prime, he could get away with that. He's an MVP, elite player. You know, so the guys that can really carry a team, it's a short list. And, you know, those guys are good enough where they can get away with some of that, to varying degrees, you know, where, you know, Jaylon Hertz has obvious strengths and he's had immense success. But as a pocket passer, not at that level where he can get away with some of that stuff. So if you're not good enough

and you're trying to do those things, I think that it becomes a problem. So, you know, if you're the team's best option by far, and you're going to be the reason why they win, that they can deal with some of that rigidity that you mentioned. So I think the play, it sounds like the play calls are a little bit tricky because sometimes, you know, according to one source we spoke to that he would have maybe a different play from a hand signal with a receiver that the coaches didn't know about, didn't install. The fact that you never knew what was coming out of the huddle, I think that was pretty rare that maybe happens to some quarterbacks and I mentioned air rogers in that equation where you've heard some of those stories but i think for the most part you know coaches and and

quarterbacks are in sync and on the same page of that stuff so i don't know if it's ultra rare but i do think the eagles some people in the building field was excessive yeah yeah and there have been examples over the past few years of jaylin making checks at the line of scrimge in key moments of games that have come back to bite the eagles you know the one against the seattle seahawks a few seasons ago stands out for sure there. In the story, it was mentioned that Jalen Hertz and AJ Brown, the dynamic between the two of them. I thought that you're, you're noting that they oftentimes internalize some of the issues that they have. I thought that was very interesting. And I think an interest, a good window into the dynamic between the two of them. How would you describe what you

learned about what's gone, what's transpired between Hertz and Brown over the last few years? Yeah, that was kind of a moving target in trying to, figure out where that dynamics stood because, you know, we talked to several sources, instead they didn't see any sort of blow up. They didn't see any sort of like a watershed moment where you knew the relationship was a problem, really. But there was just probably a little bit of an iciness there. You know, some of that is by nature with Jaylen Hertz, according to the people we spoke to, that it's more just a personality trait where he's got this steely resolve and whether he's earning a $250 million contract or winning a

Super Bowl, he's going to be the same guy. Like, his face isn't going to change. You know, he's probably not going to smile a whole lot. And so that can, you know, I'm sure that's helped him in a ton of ways become successful, but it also can be a difficult dynamic in a locker room, especially the quarterback position, where, you know, AJ was more open with his emotions, even if sometimes it seemed very passive aggressive and people were trying to figure out what it was. We felt like some people in the building shot AJ Brown some bail because they feel like because of the shortcomings of Jaylen and some of the problems there that maybe he was justified in some ways, you know, and so I'm not in the locker room every day, so I can't say

if it was some sort of locker room torn between two guys. I don't know that for sure, but that seemed to be the dynamic that we glean from it. And with AJ and Jalen, you know, it sounds like from Jaylin's account, they had a good talk after the year and we're in a better spot coming out of the season. So if they have to coexist and he doesn't get traded, then that would be a good sign, I think. But at the same time, it feels a little untenable based on some of the frustrations that AJ has. I don't know how much those are going to dissipate just because they have a new coordinator there, you know, so some of the problems would be preexisting. But it sounds like, as one source told me that the airing of grievances in a healthy way, it didn't happen as often

as it should, you know, like they didn't maybe have those sit-down talks where they could have on the same page and maybe because of the personality dynamics that was hard to do. Gotcha. Gotcha. And then And in conclusion here, you know, like let's let's talk outcomes. Obviously, you know, Jalen Hertz, there's a window here for him to sign a contract extension, but, you know, I wouldn't expect it. Jeffrey Lorry spoke earlier this week, didn't make it sound like anything's imminent. And Jeff McLean, the inquires, Jeff McLean reported that, you know, those in the building

are not expecting Jalen Hertz to sign an extension. I guess where do you think the Eagles and Jalen Hertz go from here? You know, you title the story, you know, about the crossroads that Hertz might find themselves out. I guess how would you describe the terrain that lies ahead of them? Yeah, and we even wrestled with some of those phrasings, right? Like at a crossroad, we felt was appropriate. But then also, considering the success he's had, it seems almost silly to say that I'm making a break it here. You know, but I do know there are some people around the league outside of the Eagles, I would say, more so, of the teams, have openly wondered, will the Eagles draft a quarterback somewhere?

Now, it doesn't seem like they're locked in them doing that. you know, I don't have any proof of that right now, but, you know, if they took one day two or early day three wouldn't shock me either. Now, they have Tariqi, who they seem to like, certainly, who's got one more year left on his deal. With Jalen, they don't have to do anything. He's clearly the starter. There's no pressure there. The early returns on his adaptability with Sean Manning are good, which we highlight in the story too, which is a positive, spinning it forward that it seems like he's open to the changes. Now, the change in coordinator is so stark compared to where they were and what they were doing that there's really no choice. But this is kind of what has to happen and to get modernized with this offense and compared to what's going on around the league with, you know, obviously the other center work and two, three tight ends and the motions and shifts in the school that manning comes from. It should be a positive, you know, so it seems like Taylor is going to jump head first into that.

And so he's the guy in 26, certainly with his stature when he's done in the league. league. You wouldn't shock if he's the guy beyond men, you know, but it seems like we'll see from their roster building where they really stand and, you know, do they make them move a quarterback into draft? That's at least a back burner item that I'm curious about whether they do or not. Yeah, I mean, there's always an urgency with this building, as you probably know. So yeah, and I appreciate your time, Jeremy. You know, appreciate the insight. Again, you and Tim really had a lot of very solid and balanced reporting in there, and I commend you guys for it. So thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. All right, that's going to do it for us here.

And I stay with us on the other side of the break for the P.H.I. Eagles podcast. At Bet365, they understand that the only thing better than winning bets with your money is winning bets with theirs. And there's never been a better time to do just that than right now. They're running a bet $10, get $365 promo available to every single new Bet365 user. All you have to do is sign up, make a $10 bet, and win or lose, you'll be given $365 in bonus bets because it never hurts to have a little extra cheese to start off the MLB season. Bet 365, we're winning is everything. Download the app today and use code P.H.O.Y. 365 at sign up.

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all the bases from the piece that we read yesterday. Yeah, yeah. You know, I, and this isn't a reflection of Jeremy. I've heard this myself from people in the building. So I know that this is a sentiment shared. But the last thing I'll say about the J-Leland thing is I just need to get this off my chest. I feel like there is a little bit of glossing over of like that he plays unbelievable in Super Bowls. You know, I think that there's like, ah, you know, like it's just he plays really well every once in a while, but they really struggled before that. It's like, I don't know. I think that those should be weighted a little. bit more heavily. That's the last thing I'd say about. Yeah. There's something to be said for shining when the lights are brightest. Yeah, like that's like part of being like a quarterback. It's like you have to play well in the big game. So anyway, I digress. All right. We've got a lot of picks to get through here. So we will bust through a couple

of these. I'll be honest with you. I cheated a little bit for this one because I like the player. I like the fit. I like I just really wanted this to happen. Maybe this would need to be a trade-up in real life. But in my scenarios here, Chris Bell was there, and I drafted Chris Bell at number 54 overall. I don't think that that's crazy. Okay. I would worry that he's a receiver coming off a torn ACL with only one year of elite production. Like, I don't think that's crazy that he'd be there. It's the Justin Simmons scenario, right, where it's a player that if you watch him, you're like, this guy is a very exciting prospect, has a real high upside. But maybe there is the possibility that he will slide in the draft because he's not a ready-made day one plug him in in training camp and

feel great about it. So because of the injury. But if you just look at the player and the profile, if you're looking for a long-term A.J. Brown replacement, I don't know how many guys I would put above Chris Bell from my personal standpoint. I'm curious what you think about him. But I just love the fit. I love the upside. And I don't mind having to wait for that, even if you are the Eagles and there is an urgency for next season. Yeah. When you look at Chris Bell, I would say from an archetype standpoint, you know, you think back to the way that AJ Brown was used in Tennessee, okay, with the Titans early in his career, where it was a lot of quick throws, quick slants, shallow crosses, and just let him work. That's really where that's hit. That's his bread and

butter. That's where a lot of his production came this past year with Louisville. Now, word of caution would be that a lot of those guys that, you know, have had that profile in recent years, they don't always hit. Everybody's like, oh, like, Debo Samuel, like, oh, he's going to be Debo Samuel. There aren't a lot of Debo Samuels that come into the NFL and kind of hit. Now, this is an offense that is cut from that cloth, right? And so you would say, okay, well, this would make some sense here, but it's not a slam dunk in terms of, you know, the ultimate projection. But this is a guy that if he had not torn his ACL is off the board by this point. And the only reason he is available is because of the ACL. Now, as you just mentioned in the first block of the show, guys that have to

redshirt their first year, the hit rate there, small sample, but the hit rate there, is not always great. It's not it's not a super high hit rate. And so um, when a guys tear their ACL this late in the process, you typically don't see them play in an NFL game until the earliest, like late October, uh, you know, if not, if not later than that. And so, um, I think that you will certainly have to wait. Patience will be required there. But, uh, Chris Bell's a, he's a fun player. Yeah. It, it, it sort of reminds me of something we've talked about with tight ends where it's like, if you look at the top guys, they, they, they, they often, oftentimes kind of have that common denominator of like they're big and they're fast.

And obviously wide receivers, you can get them in different different flavors. And they don't all have to fit that bill. But if you're looking for like an AJ Brown replacement, I do think, you know, the height weight speed factor there is really important. Some other players that I considered here. Gabe Accus, who you predicted would be one of my guys. Keelan Rutledge, the offensive lineman from Georgia Tech, Justin Jolie.

It's probably a little early for him. And then Jeremy Bernard, who I noticed, you are probably lower. on them the consensus for him. Yep. Yeah, I would say I'm lower on the consensus on Bernard. I would definitely take Chris Bell ahead of him. Joe Lee, I think I might have a higher grade, but I'm okay with waiting at tight end. I'm okay with waiting at tight end because of just the nature of this class.

So I don't think I want to do what they did with McCuba last year and kind of like jump the, you know, jump the run there and get out ahead of it. I think that you can afford to be patient with this class just because you have so many players kind of bunched together. And, you know, obviously the Eagles are not going to view it that way in terms of like how, but chances are if I've got 12 guys jump together, they probably have a list of at least five or six. And so, you know, I don't think they need to jump at, you know, at one of those guys.

Okay. I still, like, I know that you said like Gabe Accus, one of your guys. I still don't know what an E.J. guy looks like. But as we've, as we've talked about it. Well, there's multiple avenues here. It really depends on the position, I think. there are some positions. Because it's the same inconsistencies across the board.

Well, I guess there's two different types of players that I really love. And they are polar opposites of each other. Yeah, that's fair. That is totally fair. I love high weight speed guys, guys that just look like superheroes out there. And I like those guys at every position. Yeah, so that is fair. But then if you're not that guy, I want to see some nasty.

I want to see some dirty work. I want to see some like fearlessness, you know? So I don't know. If you're in between, then I'm, you're not. giving me anything. You like the Johnny Trihards and you like the guys that are all traits. So you know, okay, great. It's if you fall between those

guys that I'm out on you. So no, I, at receiver, I don't think I like the Johnny Trihards, although I do like a Darius Cooper. And that's not, he's got some traits, he's got some length, some athleticism. But yeah, I, I just, I like those guys who kind of are exceptional

at least in at least one of those categories. So that is why I can say that, you know, Caden Proctor, is one of my guys and gay back is because yeah there is uh definitely a difference between those guys do you think um really quick i'm i am surprised i think justin jolly is a guy you are much higher on than consensus as well because he's somebody i will i will give a little tease here he is someone who comes up again in my in my mock draft in a different round yeah i think that look at the end of the day the reason why is i think that he can be an impactful receiver uh i do think that he is probably

more of like a, you know, like a 1A as opposed to a true one. Like I think you want to platoon him with and my comparison with him is John Hussmith, who has had seasons where he's been a very productive and impactful player for and a useful player for an NFL offense. And so when I look at Johnny Smith, who was a fourth round pick out of a lower level of competition, you know, Jolie has been more productive consistently at better, at better schools. I think that Jolie is probably you're talking like this would be the high point like late second round i do think that he probably bleeds into like the third round maybe even the fourth round but i think that he does enough as a blocker to warrant being you know picked in this kind of area okay well he's going to come up again

um guys you're going to have to stick stick with us through the break and i got a great to use here i've i've been waiting for this i am going to upset fran duffy on the other side of the zab break now that the weather is warming up and you guys are starting to size up which home improvement projects you have in store, it's time to make your home work smarter and not harder. And that's why the True Mark Financial home equity line of credit can really be a benefit for you all. You can tap it to your home's equity to handle renovations, upgrades, or whatever's next on your list. True Mark Financial Helox Select gives you the flexibility to borrow when you need it on your timeline. You start with a revolving line of credit. You use only what you

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And I have a pest question for all to get out of this. Is it for in here? Or is it all? Yeah, for in show. I mean, come on. So this was definitely the case last year. And it looks like all signs are pointing to it once again being a bad tick season in the area. Do you guys find that with the dogs?

Yes. We do. It's very annoying. They've got short hair. you'd think it's not like impossible to find them. Yes. But it is a challenge always to like go through and like you know to have to like look everywhere for ticks.

Correct. And I don't know if you ever done this, but I like we will, I'm not going to take any credit for this. My wife will like put the tick in a Ziploc bag and mail it somewhere. I do not know where to check for Lyme disease for the sake of our dog. So she is an elite dog mom. Shout out to Julia. I usually if I find them will just flush them down the toilet.

Yeah, it was a point last year where literally every walk, like every time we came back inside, I would look for the, check the dog for a tick and she had at least one. Now, why is it going to be a bad tick season when it was like a pretty cold winter? Usually it's a mile. No, no, that's what it actually is, is that when it is the cold winter, apparently that's when that's what makes it bad. Because last year, remember, we didn't have as much snow last year, but it was a very cold winter. and apparently that's, do I know why? No, but apparently that's what brings it on. But it's already started here in the Duffy House.

That's bad news. You're going to need to call Evans Pest Control to get rid of those ticks. All right, I'm going to upset you. This is the pick that I was dreading making because this is where the evisceration is going to begin. So with the 68th pick in the NFL draft, the Eagles have to make a decision at tight end. and they're going to go with Eli Stowers over your boy, Justin Jolie. Well, I'm just going to take that as a scientist because you guys graduated high school at the same time. He's an old, yes, maybe. Former quarterback, right? The background of Eli Stowers.

He was a quarterback at Texas A&M for coming out high school. He was a four-star kid and went to Texas A&M as a quarterback, played. there for two seasons before transferring to New Mexico State. And that's when he moved to tight end. So it was his third year moving to tight end. He's only been playing tight end now for three seasons, caught passes there and learned how to play tight end, catching passes from Diego Pavia at New Mexico State. Then he followed Pavia and a couple of members of the coaching staff to Vanderbilt going into the 2024 season and has been a productive pass catcher over the last two years. He had 62 catches for just under 800 yards, a whopping four touchdowns

this past year as a 25-year-old or as a 24-year-old, I should say. And then, yeah, he had five touchdowns the year before. He's six foot three and a half. He's 239 pounds. So he's very undersized for the tight end spot. I say this with all due respect. He is a terrible blocker. Like he's the worst blocker of the tight ends in this class.

And this isn't like, oh, yeah, like, he's a bad blocker in the SEC against college defenders, I don't know how he's going to be able to hold up in the NFL. Like I just, I just don't think he's going to be able to block in the league. And so that is why I am low. He is not in my top 10 tight ends in this class because I think that he is going to be so role specific. I don't think that he could even check the box with him. If the best case scenario, he gets the point where you can at least check the box,

which again, like he did not do the last two years. Maybe he's Evan Ingram, right? Yeah. Who Evan Ingram went in the first round. But every time. team that has had Evan Inger was like, yeah, like he probably wasn't worth the investment we made, whether it was the Jaguars giving him the money that he got in the open country in the open market. You know, and obviously Denver, like he was fine this past year.

He has moments, but just not a, not a highly impact, consistently impactful player. Yeah. So he is your tight end 12. I knew that you were not high on him. Obviously, the consensus is much higher on him for the reasons that you laid out. He is, you know, an intriguing prospect because of the athletic. the ability as a pass catcher. And that's why I leaned ever so slightly toward Eli Stowers because especially like you mentioned Justin Jolie like has some potential to be a combo guy, but it's not like he is like, you know, an ideal perfect combo guy.

If I'm getting a tight end that I'm expecting to be your tight end two behind Dallas Goddard, you're hoping to develop him into your difference making tight end and number one down the road. I just leaned Eli Stowers for the upside play a little bit more. and maybe honestly like even this is like me being a little bit reflective of the draft that I put together maybe you're drafting and Eli Stowers and saying we can get a dirty work guy later in the draft you know somebody that can be a compliment to him but again I just especially because he was there in the mock draft exercise I did and I know that he is projected to go higher elsewhere I felt like now you play in the third round and yeah I was I knew this one would get you fired up yeah I just to me like I struggle with guys that, you know, where it's, oh, developmental. Like, he's got areas he's got to improve.

Oh, and he's 24. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's where I really, because also, like, again, he's only been playing for three years. So he still needs to get better as a route runner. Like, he still has, like, areas of his game where he needs refinement and he needs to get bigger and he needs to get stronger.

Like, I just, that's a tough bet to make for me. Do you at least agree that he, like, fits the description that we've laid out where it's like tight ends that are, you know, the top tier of, NFL tight ends at least like look similar to him. I know he's a little smaller, but in terms of like, maybe not height weight speed, but the athleticism paired with, you know, relative tight end size, do you feel like he at least fits that mold in a way that you can, you could buy the upside? So really quickly, I'm just going to look at the guys that have been really kind of hit in terms of like,

oh, they became starters or even like one B players. All right. So I've got a list of, uh, 61 names here that I would say like became like ones or you know good twos okay I've got two players two players that came in under 240 pounds Gerald Everett Jalen Samuel so that's even a reach there Chigakan your boy so this is why because it's Chigakanco this is Chigakonkwo this is Chig Conquo but honestly even Chig is a better block chika Kwokko is a better blocker a more useful blocker than uh than Eli Stowers So this all makes sense now. Yeah, I mean, the Chigo-Conco part of my, my, my guys is definitely, it's a weird one.

It's definitely a weird one. All right. Before we get to the rest of the picks, I want to go through some super chats here. So we will start with Joe Rockhead. Fran, when is your mock draft going up? That is a great question because I mean, listen, my mock draft is one thing, but yours is going to be like the actual truth. Yeah, I think let's count on early next week for my next mock draft. It'll be full one round.

Maybe I get into two rounds, but early next week. Okay. Really quick, Rob Milner as well. Appreciate the super chat. Thoughts on tight end, Eli Rared and filling as, filling in need as a great inline guy that is also athletic as a receiver. Could he have the highest ceiling of the tight end class? You know, I don't think he's got the highest ceiling, but I did, I studied him recently

within the last couple of weeks. And, you know, I compared him to Luke Musgrave, who was a second round pick coming out of Oregon State by the by the Packers. Now, I thought that that was a little bit rich for me. I had some questions about him as a blocker. I have questions about Raritan as a blocker. I do think he's got straight line speed, big play potential. He's a better blocker than Stowers is, not quite the athlete that Stowers is.

So similar kinds of questions, but I think Raritan is a safer bet in terms of being able to stick in the league as a backup. All right, we are going to get to the rest of your super chats and the rest of my picks on the other side of Bovertime. All right. A double super chat from Joe Rockhead. Another question, Cuzz and Baldy. of Riley and Nolikowski. Noah. It's a W instead of in the L there.

Noah Kovsky. Gotcha. Fran, you don't seem as high on him. Is he worth the pick at three? If he's there, of course. Yeah, I think that when you're looking at Noakowski, he is your classic kind of like dirty work fullback type. So, you know, he's the polar opposite of Eli Stowers,

which means he's also one of EJ's guys. I think when you're looking at it, he's a like, do it all, dirty work blocker. but he's not big enough to be like an inline guy, not a dynamic athlete. In this class, I don't know that it's a given that he definitely gets drafted,

just because of the nature of this class. So if you told me that team took him in the fifth round, I would believe it. If you told me he went undrafted, I would believe it. But I do like the player. I like the archetype of player, but it is going to be scheme and team specific there.

Yeah. Last one from CDP is venting to ESPN reporters the best way to reach Jalen Hertz. Have the Eagles tried talk to him love an E.J. and Francio. It's an excellent question. I think you could look at it one of two ways. The first way is I'm sure that they have had conversations with him behind the scenes, and maybe they do not feel like there's enough progress being shown, and that is the avenue for maybe some of the people who talked on this story to be, that's how they find themselves talking to

to Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus. I would also like to point out, like being an eagle source doesn't necessarily always mean that you work currently for the Eagles. I don't want to go too deep into that, but I think like, you know, that speaks for itself.

You know, maybe the people who spoke for this story were not trying to get through to Jaylor Arts. You know, maybe that was not their objective. So I think it could probably be a mixture of the two, but it's a great question. And also, does it if just because those individuals don't necessarily work for the Eagles or them, it doesn't mean that what they're saying

isn't true, right? Again, these are things that we've heard across multiple iterations of this coaching staff. Yep. That's a very good point. Yeah, this isn't something that just popped up this year. All right. We're going to go through some of these picks. We can go a little bit quicker. This is a very classic P.H.I. Eagle Show where it's a, we're an hour in and we've gone through three picks. So number 98 overall, I had the Eagles taking Jalen Kilgore, the safety from South Carolina. It says South Carolina. How do we feel about that one? How did we feel about him? potential starter starting starting competition and pair with dream of kuba so here's the thing with kilgore is that he has been kind of like a big nickel for south carolina for most of his career

i do think that he can perform that role in the NFL i think a lot of people coming into the season he was in a lot of mock drafts coming into the year is like oh he's going to take over for eminari and you know hit the ground running he's not that level of physical talent um now for the eagles obviously he would not play the slot i think that he's got some some tight end matchup ability. But I think this would be a little rich for me personally here. But he's a good kid. He's got some, he's got decent size.

I like the versatility. I would feel better about him overall on day three. Okay. And you probably doesn't sound like you love the fit either. Okay. I will keep that in mind when we watch safeties. Maybe that name swaps out if, if I stick with the safety there. Number 114 overall.

I have a new NFL draft crush, Fran. I have no idea where you're going here because it could be like the most athletic player in the draft or the least athletic player in the draft. I think he's pretty athletic. His RAS score is pretty high. And I mean, but when you watch him, man, this guy is awesome. So I'm going to tell you he's a guard. He's an offensive lineman.

Okay. I think you were higher on him than the consensus. Okay. Does anybody jump out? Do you have any guesses before I tell you? Is it Keelan Rutledge? It is not. Okay.

High RAS score at guard. Chase Bassantis? No, I don't think I liked him as much. Okay. Who do you got? Jalen Farmer. Okay. Yeah, I like Jalen Farmer.

Yeah. He's a fun player to watch. He moves well. He's a big athletic interior offensive lineman out of Kentucky. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. Hold on. I think I have a former eagle as his comp, actually. Oh, do you?

Give me one second. I don't know. Oh, you do. Yeah. Okay. Is it Chance Warmac? It is Chance Warmac. Yeah.

That's what I thought. He is a, so he was a right guard from basically. his entire career at Kentucky. I did not study him before the senior bowl. And I liked seeing him up close. To me, he's got really heavy hands, jarred guys on first contact, solid movement skills across the board. He's a well-built kid.

Like, he's got things to clean up from a technique standpoint, you know, pad level, hand usage, things like that. But he's got starting tools. I think that the lack of proven versatility, that is something that he will have to get past in terms of the overall value. so teams will kind of have to make that call as they go through the evaluation. But I like Jalen Farmer. He is a fun player to watch.

Yeah, I guess that really was what it boiled down to. He's fun to watch. Like, every time they have him out in space pulling, he looks, he looks the part as like, you know, as a nod to Bo who is on vacation, a big guard, huh? I like it. Yeah, he fits that bill as a guy with good size and good athleticism. He's got long arms, which I like. So, yeah, I felt really good.

Of all the picks that I made, I felt really good about Jalen Farmer in the fourth round. Like, if I'm talking to future EJ, I think you're still going to have Jalen Farmer going to the Eagles at some point in the draft. So the only other player, I had a few players that I also considered there, Drew Shelton, because he's more of a tackle prospect than an interior prospect. Maybe. Some people, some people kind of like him at center.

Oh, interesting, interesting. And I had Fabiwih, Nuiwu. Weewu, right? Okay. And then Kamari Ramsey as well. If I hadn't gone safety. How do you feel about Kamari Ramsey as a safety fit compared to Kilgoy there? Yeah, I like Kamari Ramsey.

High character, like a lot of people out of USC really rave about him. He began his career at UCLA, and I will say, like, speaking with sources at both schools, both kind of, right? So I think that universally is like, yeah, like we really liked this kid. They put a lot on him early on in his career. He followed, so basically Deont-Lyn, who now is the defensive coordinator of Penn State, but was at UCLA for for ramses first year went to USC and ramsi transferred and followed him there and right away like he represented USC at media days as a sophomore as a transfer right like so you right away that tells you like to me like that's a marker for yeah this this guy's he's got everything

on the straight and narrow from a like an on-field character standpoint the tools are just okay uh i i haven't graded as a backup um but it wouldn't shock me if you're he became a starter down the line. I think this area of the draft is right, kind of like the sweet spot. He's young. He's been fairly productive. He hasn't had a ton of big plays in the ball, but it's kind of similar to Caleb Downs, where his usage is not one that's going to put him in a lot of position to create big plays, if that makes sense, but he's a very useful player. Yeah, yeah. Okay. That captain note is something I could hear the Eagles really loving about Kamari Ramsey. in the fourth round, I had Jayshan Barham for the edge rusher from Michigan.

I will be honest with you. At this point in the draft, I am mostly relying on your draft guide. So I imagine that you will like a lot of these picks. And I figured the Eagles are going to target edge. And, you know, if it's not by the fourth round, I think it will be in the fourth round. So here's the deal with Jaysham Barham. I do think that he would be, there are elements of his game, I think, that would make some sense here for the Eagles in this scheme. I think when you look at he is a converted linebacker who actually did not move to the edge until September of this year.

Like midstream, midseason, they moved him to to the outside outside linebacker like defensive end position in that defense was previously a standup linebacker, stacked linebacker for Maryland for two years and then transferred to Michigan after their national title run. So with a new defense under Wigmartindale played linebacker in 2024, then started the year at linebacker before moving to the edge. he's really physical, obviously extremely raw as a rusher, but the toughness and physicality aspect is what you kind of, you know, you're going to kind of hang your hat on with him. And that's an element that, you know, I think that that would be attractive for Eagles coaching staff. But again, I don't know that you're counting on him to like be an impact player. Yeah, you're probably not getting a guy like that. Yeah, I think you're probably ready. It's almost like a red shirt-ish type of situation there with Barham.

Yeah, you probably feel good about that type of pick if you've made a, trade to add to the top of that rotation. Since we're talking edge here, again, I know I apologize for the fact that we are going way long here. But the fact that Keldrick Falk has like, I see him mocked it around. In some of the exercises I did, he's around in the at 23 for the Eagles. I'm just assuming that's not realistic. I'm assuming that that's not going to actually happen.

You know, it happens every once in a while, right? Where I got that because I'm not, I'm one person. I'm going to see a guy differently than how other people see him. And that's okay. I had Nolan Smith graded really high and he ended up falling to the Eagles in the late first round. Like those things happened. I will say like the same thing was a question with Michael Williams a year ago at this time. Literally at this time, it was like, oh, like Michael Williams, late first round pick.

Could he be in play for the Eagles? And he ends up going 11. Right. Like those sometimes that happens. So we'll see with culture fog. We still have got three weeks. Okay, gotcha. All right.

In the fifth round, I figured the Eagles are going to target a quarterback at some point on day three. And this is a chance to get a guy who at least has a slim pathway towards starting in the NFL. So I went with Talen Green, the quarterback out of Arkansas. Drew Aller was a player I considered, but I chose Green because, again, I think that there is a, at least a scenario where he becomes a starter. Yeah, Tailing Green is a really interesting projection because he's played a lot of lot of football. There are clearly flaws with him as a passer in terms of like mechanically accuracy and ball placement. He's going to have frustrating amounts of play. He's an elite

athlete. We saw that at the combine, but you watch him on film for, you know, two drives. And you see like, oh, man, this guy has got unique movement. You know, a buddy of my, Emery Hunt, who does a, I love the work that Emery does over CBS compared to Randall Cunningham. So if you want to the Eagles, Eagles connection, to me, very reminiscent. of Colin Kaepernick. Like he's got a little bit of a mechanical release, but again, like elite elite athleticism. And not a guy where it's like, oh, yeah, like all he does is run. He's had really good moments as a passer.

You know, it was winning like bowl game MVP's as a true sophomore at Boise State before transferring to the SEC and playing for Bobby Petrino at Arkansas. Like there are, there are certain things that would give you confidence that he can like get better and evolve into a, into a nice quarterback. But I do think that pay. will likely be required there. Yeah, I liked your player comp in the draft guide. I can't believe that I haven't been plugging the draft guide.

I mean, I used it for this entire exercise. You make sure to become a diehard, so you get access to the draft guide so that you can put together a mock draft that's probably better than this one, you know, because you can read all of France scouting reports. So with the 178th pick, you know, and still in the fifth round here, I was looking for a moro-o-jomo replacement at some point in the draft, and I felt like this was a good time to pick one up. At least in theory, a player that you feel like has upside as a pass rush specialist,

specializing interior alignment, defensive tackle there. You know, I wasn't looking for a nose tackle. I wasn't looking for versatility. I was like, give me a guy who is really just a high upside rusher. I too, by the way, real quickly, I still to this day have no idea how Morrow Ojimo fell to the Eagles where they took him in seven. To me, like that profile falling to that late in the draft was silly. All right, go ahead.

So obviously with that said, like whoever you're, you probably, that's like a super, super high upside scenario. I went with Tyler Ongedim from Texas A&A. Again, a player that at least has the upside to become a plus as a pass rusher, but it's viewed more as a developmental player than somebody who's going to come in right away and give you quality snaps. Yeah, and I think that he's kind of cut from that cloth in terms of like athletic, interior disruptor.

He's got position versatility, much like Ojima, where he can win for multiple techniques. He's kind of like got that similar kind of broad frame. He's got explosiveness. So to me, like there are areas where he's got to get a little bigger, a little bit stronger, I should say, holding up at the point of attack. I thought the film was a little bit up and down, the rush plan. He began his career at Iowa State, transferred to Texas A&M last off season. I like Gognette. And I was, he was one of the guys that I liked just seeing up close at the Combine as well, just seeing him go through drills. He was one of my favorite players at the Shrine Bowl back in January. So I think that on yet him not unrealistic that he would

fall to this portion of the draft. I could see him going like early fourth round as well. Like if he was one of the first picks of day three, that would not shock me either. Okay. Gotcha. And then my last pick at 197 in the sixth round, I had Eric Rivers, the Georgia Tech wide out. I'll be honest with you. Five 10, he ran a four three five. I was like, you know, that seems like the type of, you know, Cuez Watkins, John Hightower type pick that the Eagles have made in the past and, you know, just a guy in camp that maybe you hope he overtakes Hollywood Brown and, you know, Elijah Moore. Maybe he can be part of a camp competition for that field stretching wide receiver role. The Eagles are looking for. Yeah, I think when you're looking at rivers, you know, obviously extremely undersized, but the speed is real.

He can get up to top gear in a hurry. He's twitching in and out of breaks as well. So he's both quick and fast. does need to get better as a route runner has been kind of up and down at the catch point. So that's why he would fall to this portion of the draft. But I had him kind of graded as like a fringe roster player just because of that speed. But that speed is real. And I think that that's something that's going to get him drafted.

Yeah. All right. So how did you feel about the first stab at the mock draft? I know you hated the Stowers pick. But overall, the group in general, how did you feel about it? Solid. Yeah, I thought you did a nice job. You know, we talked through Proctor.

I think that what you know, your thought process for round two made sense. I hated the, the, the Stowers pick. Day three, I thought was solid. I thought that there was, I thought it was very sensible. All right. I appreciate that. I mean, again, it's a testament to the draft guide, getting me a chance to watch film on these guys.

Like, I cannot harp on enough. Like, I'd love that you can read the player profile, and you can, you have the all 22, the cutups right there in the compilations for a lot of these guys. It's huge because otherwise, I'd just be, you know, reading scouting reports for a lot of these guys and being able to lay eyes on them. I appreciate the work you did there. So, before we get out of here, I do have one nonsense question for you. So really quickly, I also want to make sure we tease the event for next Wednesday night.

So next Wednesday, for anybody that's local to Philadelphia, there are some tickets remaining for the film breakdown event that we're doing next door to our studio at Inline Comedy. So if you want to come through, have some food. You can meet Connor Barwin. He's going to be, you know, doing a meet and greet with participants beforehand. And then I'm going to get into film of Eagles Free Agents, draft. I mean, we're close enough to draft now. I feel like a lot of people, because I honestly, I opened it up and say, like, all right, what do you guys want to talk about?

What do you want to do? Who do you want to talk about? And we kind of go through the film that way. So yeah, it'll be fun. It'll be a fun night. Come through. If you're a local to Philadelphia. And if you're not local to Philly and you've got some FOMO, I will be doing some, like,

virtual events as well. I don't know that we're going to be doing like film through the virtual event, but in terms of like Q&A and things like that. So, you know, we'll stay tuned for that as well. Yeah, it's going to be an awesome. Awesome of it. I will be there. I'm sure we'll have a lot of members from the staff there.

And yeah, I mean, like, it's worth the price of admission just to talk draft guys with you. Absolutely. Everything else, chair on the top. So I have a food question for you. I might get eviscerated by the chat on this one. But, you don't, I'm going to qualify it. Well, let me, let me qualify it with the question to you. Do you, have you ever had a PB&J burger?

I'm disappointed that you feel that you need to ask me that question. No, I've never had a PB&J burger. Okay, what are we talking about here? Okay, then then I need you to keep an open mind, be curious and not judgmental here. I had a PB and J. Burger in Phoenix. It was after the Jeffrey Lurie Press conference, it was, you know, I had a tight turnaround for I to get to the airport. And I was thinking like, this sounds crazy, but, you know, we're on the road feeling, feeling risky. Like, whatever.

Let's do it, right? It's like, you know, let's take the chance. I ordered the PB&J burger, and I think it might be on the all-time, it shouldn't work, but it does list of food, of pretty, maybe everything. You like, you hear the combination.

Doesn't sound right. Like, who wants peanut butter and jelly on a cheeseburger? But peanut butter and jelly are like a perfect balancing. You know, it's a very neutral coming together of sweet and savory. And then you put that onto a cheeseburger, where, you know, I would say cheeseburgers are mostly savory, but you had some ketchup into the mix. If you have the jelly, you already have the sweetness.

I can't explain to you why it works, but I'm telling you, and listen, I'm a big guy. I like that I like to eat. But I'm also like discerning in a lot of ways. And I'm going to tell you guys that the PB&J Burger, do not knock it unless you try it. If you're going to reach out to me and tell me that this is nonsense, this is ridiculous, you need to tell me that you've tried it.

If you haven't tried it, I don't want to hear from you. Can you just go through it? me the the ingreat is they're like I need to know the type of cheese and is there anything else on this or is it just beef cheese peanut butter and jelly it was a bacon cheeseburger with cheddar and then pb and jay so it was bacon and cheddar or with peanut butter and jelly and is that the word like was the jelly on top was jelly underneath the bun or on the peanut butter are on top of the bacon I'm telling you you have was I can't imagine the bow was I can't imagine the bow was with you because I feel like you would be too embarrassed to order this with Bo. Yeah. He would have been

furious. If you have tried it, I want to hear from you. I want to hear if you thought it was good or if it was bad. I cannot explain why it was good, but I enjoyed it. It was good. So here's my final take on it. Would I try it? Sure. Yeah. I do think when it comes to like crazy burgers like this. I like, I ascribe to the, um, the Anthony and Burdain quote about like, uh, you have something, like there is nothing better than just like your classic cheeseburger. Like why, like, you know, if you are throwing all these other ingredients in. Yeah. Uh, you're trying to reinvent the wheel here. Like, what are you actually doing? That said, you could just, just, just, it's something different, you know, like it's, to me, it's like when you get a cheese steak, uh, and it's like got all of

this other stuff in it. Like at the end of day, that's not a Philly cheesecake anymore. It's not cheese steak. Like, you know, so now it's just something different. Um, um, like beef P.B&J, like, I don't know. Similar to my NFL type where I've got the two ends of the spectrum, I usually am a huge proponent of like a Smatchburger where it's literally three ingredients. It's beef, cheese, out of fun, you know, maybe fried onions, but that's the extent of it. So I usually do prescribe to that theory. But every once in a while, you just want, you want to make a, you know,

want to make a production out of it. And I've got to tell you it was better than I was expecting it to be. Was it, it was not a smash burger? It was a, it was a, it was like, maybe you could call it like a half smash burger. Like they didn't, it wasn't like, you know, Lacey, like a like a good smash burger would be. It was definitely, definitely had some, some, I'm trying to think of a way not to say it weird when I can't. So I'm just going to say definitely had some thickness to it. What was the bun situation?

It was like a brioche bun. It was, it was supposed to be a gourmet burger. I'm really enjoying some of the chats on it. I'm enjoying that from Peru. So yeah, I mean, look, at the end of that, like I said, if I went to somewhere and they, like had these out, I would be like, okay, sure, I'll try. I'll try one. I would not say that I would be, you know, picking it above the rest. Now, would I have it over just a regular In-N-Out burger?

There's a good chance that I would do it over that would just pick that over. Yeah, In-N-Out is like aggressive. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine. You know, I was in Dallas for the Shrine Bowl. and it's like, you know, I did not go out of my way to go to in and out, even though, like, I go, you know, I'm in a city where it has it, like, maybe once a year, twice a year. It's fine.

Yep, it is, it's, I don't, we do not miss it in this area, I would say, but, but yeah, all right, well, maybe you should, I'll find a PB&J burger in your area. Maybe I'll get that ship. Please, please don't. Don't, don't find a VNJ burger. Fair, fair. All right, well, this has been fun. I appreciate you joining us, Fran. I'm excited to get into some of this, like really to get into draft stuff next week to watch these guys and see how much maybe my opinion on some of these guys changes.

And, you know, I'm going to keep watching the Eli Stowers film so I can, you know, really live this argument for the next couple of weeks with you. But anyway, that's going to do it for us at the P.H.O. Eagles podcast. Thank you to Fran. Thank you to Lindsay. Thank you to Jeremy Fowler for joining the show. And thanks to all of you for watching at home. We are off tomorrow. We will be back on Monday to talk draft.

and a lot of other things. So yeah, appreciate you guys. And as always, we love you.