PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Training Camp Countdown: Do the Eagles have insurance for Saquon Barkley, Dallas Goedert?

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

The training camp previews continue with running backs and tight ends. Zach Berman and Fran Duffy discuss Saquon Barkley’s second training camp in Philadelphia and who else is in the backfield. Plus, with Dallas Goedert back with the Eagles, what tight ends behind him are worth watching at training camp? Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to a Wednesday edition of the P. H.L.I. Eagle Show presented by True Mark Financial Credit Union. I'm Zach Berman. That's Fran Duffy. It's the middle of the week, and we're talking running backs and tight ends. Where else would you rather be than hear the PHLY Eagles show? Good to see you, Fran. ZB, always good to see you. I feel like we have to lead the show off with how did it go this morning? How did I redo it camp? So, look, I appreciate us leading it off here. I don't say this tongue in cheek. Sequan Barkley's training camp practices are harder than Nixiriani's training camp practices. Wow. I mean, it was hot out there as an observer.

They were going, you know, I had to leave, a read went with a friend afterwards. I had to leave to get back for the show. They were going nine to one, right? So, you know, if we were doing a talk radio show during training camp and you're saying the Eagles only practice an hour, Sequin Barkley's got these kids out there for three hours. I say three hours, but I know I said nine to one. The first hours like registration and going over the rules. But it was cool.

The kids were excited. I was back and forth on the phone watching. I did not go into the field perimeter. I think there are certain parents who had to pay for VIP passes to get in there. I didn't did not do. that but it was uh yeah reed was having a good time but he was exhausted when i left and there's still like an hour to go uh as i was walking to the car there were other kids walking back to it but it was it was you know they they had they had circuits it was kids from ages uh six to 16 i believe so

you had a lot of different skill levels it was it was cool to see people playing football you know you heard the big ovation uh for saquan uh it was it was well run but But, yeah, I did not, I was not there as a reporter. And I did not get eyes on, like, you know, up close on Sequin. Actually, all the parents had to be in the stands, right? So everything was like from a distance. Yeah, well, it sounds like it was a good morning for it. I mean, obviously it was hot.

But I'm glad that Reed was able to get some good work in this morning. The big question, obviously, is, you know, I haven't heard yet from day news. I'm still waiting on the word from overseas with Dane is in terms of how he would stack this camp up against, say, Dallas Goddard's camp, if you would have one. Good question there. You know, we would, it's probably the Saquan camp gets people coming because of Dallas Goddard's camp, right? Dallas Goddard's camps filters everybody to Sequin Barkley's camp. I've been to, like I've been to my share of player camps over the years. And I got to say, this one was, this one was, well, organized.

There were a lot of people there, right? There's another camp that he's going to this weekend, like in Eagles Kids Academy camp. I see, I see Claire has representation there too. So, yeah, we're excited to see how that goes. But he digs it up. I think my, I was going to say my son, by this point, we all know his name. I think Reed thought like Sequin was going to be scouting him at this camp. And I was like, I think Sequin's doing more of the photo ops, Reed.

But Reed didn't, he wore his Reed Blanketship jersey to the camp, which actually, he was probably the only one there with a Reed Blanketship jersey. The Black Ridge Blanketship jersey. And then he changed into the Seekwan Barkley Camp T-shirt that comes with. the admission to the camp. Well, he'll have fun this weekend. And Claire, your son will have fun this weekend. The Eagles do a good job with the Kids Academy. So that'll be, that it should be fun.

Yeah. They're all over the place this week. And I know there's one at NovaCare. There's one down the shore. So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that. And that's the, it was good that we started off the top of the show with some Sequant small talk. Because now we're going to get right into the Sequant Big Talk here, which is Sequant-Barkley. pretty good of football.

I think we've established that. Defending offensive player of the year. This time a year ago, the big story was how is Sequin going to look, right? Like, you know, Sequin going to this offense, what can you decipher from camp? I think Sequin now fits in the category

of similar to how we talked about Lane Johnson last, I was going to say last week yesterday, which was we'll see you on September 4th. Is that fair to say? I think so. I mean, honestly, I feel like just so that that's just the nature of the running back position in today's NFL. Like if you have one of those guys, which there aren't too many of them, but even I think the line of demarcation for like our like feature like starting running back is probably lower than than years past. To me like more often than not teams are just going to put that guy on ice.

Yeah, you're going to go through one on ones. You're going to go through drills. We know that you're going to get action in 11 on 11. We're going to see Seekwon Barkley during the course of training camp. but it's not like he's going to be going full on, you know, the tackle to the ground. I don't think we'll see that, really, until we get to week one. One thing that you'll see quite a bit of with Sequin is catching the ball, right? Because you'll see this is more of a passing camp, especially early on.

And I'm curious, when we did the over unders last week, we both thought the overunder for Seekwon receptions was high. But when you look at like where Sequin's game can change in 2025, do you think the passing game is a part where he might be featured more? Do you think it's like, all right, he already touches the ball enough? We don't need to do that. What's your read there? Yeah, I think that to me, one area of growth could be his usage in the past game. And look, some quarterbacks are really good in the running back screen game. I don't think that that's necessarily a strength of Jalen Hertz's game.

in terms of just like the overall like timing and touch underneath. But I think that you can still do things to get Sequin going in the past game and where maybe where it's not, you know, I still think that that number was over 40, right? Like close to 50 was that over under for catches that we talked about it last week. I think that's a high number. But I think what you can do is that you could really kind of, you know, spice up what those targets and what those receptions look like. You know, maybe it's not just Seaquin in the flat, you know, just running a little flare route.

But, you know, some of the wheel route, some of the things we saw from him. in week one down in Brazil against the Green Bay Packers, the first touchdown of the season for the Philadelphia Eagles last year. I think if you incorporate more of those because he's got that ability. He hits the second level of full head of steam. We know what it looks like when he's got the ball on his hands. But if you're a running back, or if you're a linebacker, rather,

trying to turn and run with Sequin when he's coming out of you with a full head of steam out of the backfield, that's a lot to handle. So finding different ways we talked about how the offense could have a little bit more verticality this year. That is a vertical kind of throw. And that could be something that the Eagles try and get a little bit more use out of here in 2025. Yeah, so I was reading some Howie Roseman quotes from before they signed Sequin Barclay today.

Or last night this morning. And it was interesting. Howie said this is a guy who you hope can touch the ball 300 times, right? That's what Howie said. Sequin Barclay touched the ball 482 times last year during the regular season and postseason combined.

That is a crazy high number. A crazy high number here. We discussed this last week. We discussed it throughout the summer, or I'm sorry, throughout the spring. But it's going to be a talking point until Eagles get to the season. Nick Siriani's already heard it.

What are you doing to, reserve Sequin Barkley. And we discussed it during the contract as well. How concerned are you about the carryover from that many touches this season? I think it would be silly to not be concerned. Now, the Eagles have been very, very good when it comes to taking care of their players, taking care of their vets, you know, the load management end of things from a week to week standpoint, especially once you get into the rigors of the regular season, right? They do a good job of kind of keeping those guys on ice. But that said, I mean, again, the history of running backs, we mentioned it last week. Typically, when you see a lot of those studies when they, when they

present data, it's a lot of, hey, running backs coming off of seasons, not, you mentioned, it was nearly 500 touches for Sequin last year. It's not 400 plus. It's not 300 plus touches. It's running backs that are coming off 200 plus touches in a season. Obviously, he has more than doubled that. And so to me, it is a very precarious situation where, you know, you want to make sure you tread lightly. And so now that comes into how do you handle his body during the week? How do you prep him going into the season? But then also what can you do to kind of help him out and really not make sure you don't waste any of these touches on him throughout the course of the, especially the first half of the year. You'd like to be able to get him to the second half relatively unscathed.

So I think at the end of the day, they're not going to play scared, but I do think you have to play smart when it comes to trying to preserve Sequin as you go into 2025. pods. I hate being the guy who is like assigning someone else's work, especially when it's something I could do, right? I have access to all the film. I can catalog this on my own. I haven't done it. And so I am, what's that? Slacker. Yeah. Because this is a preamble for, this is a stat that I want to see introduced in advanced statistics. There's so many advanced statistics. I want to see a stat on tackles to the ground, right? How many times were you tackle to the ground? Because from talking to Sequin, but also talking to LaShawn McCoy over the

years, talking to some other running backs, they really distinguish like touches and hits taken, right? You know, because if you're taking a ball and you're getting out of bounds, right? Or maybe you're giving yourself up or that in something like that it's not the same wear and tears as if you're as if you're getting hit really hard uh we've heard sayquan discuss how actually the hardest he was hit the hardest hit he's had was when he did the uh backward leap right um backward hurdle and yeah i mean he he was hit in in the back what this it's it's the same thing with quarterbacks too It's like it's it's how many times are you hit hard to the ground. And so I'm fascinated to see what that number is and how they can kind of mitigate that

because that is a big. And we talk about the wear and tear. A lot of it is is the hits that you're taking. So that's, yeah. So that's really the big Sequence, the Sequant Barkley storyline. We don't, you know, I think Seekwon's going to be good. We established this last week. I don't think he's going to have the year he had last.

year. I don't think he's going to have a Christian McCaffrey year where like it goes completely south, but obviously injuries are a big factor there. So we'll see how Seekwon does. But at the headline here was, do the Eagles have insurance for Sequan Barclay, Dallas Goddor? And this is especially relevant with the Saquan Berkeley question because the top backup from last year is not back. And that's Kenny Gainwell. So probably more interesting this summer than watching Sequin Barkley will be who is the number two back. And so I'm going to pose that question to you first and then we'll get into the players. Is Will Shipley the number two back? Is AJ doing the number two back? Or is there a door number three that I'm not thinking of? Yeah, I definitely lean more towards Shipley.

And obviously, we all know that you are the biggest Shipley fan, you know, outside of anybody that has the last name Shipley. I think when, you know, when you look around the NFL, typically there are there are two schools of thought when you look at how teams try to replace the you know if they do have a bell cow which like we mentioned there there are a few of those in the NFL now it's it's very rarely when you look around the league where it's a one for one replacement hey you know bjean robinson goes down tyler algear steps in and now he's the bell cow very rarely do we see that now it's more guy first guy goes down it's going to be kind of a committee type approach and my guess is it would probably lean more towards that you know i think that's where you would start to all right j dylan has a role if he makes the 53 whoever you know is going to be that short yardage kind of banger between the tackles. Although I will say, like, I think Shipley fared fine, you know, in those kind of looks as we saw him in, you know, in junk time down the stretch last year as they were trying to close out games. So I am interested to see what he looks like this summer.

My guess is we will see a decent amount of him in the preseason. Not a lot. I don't think that they're going to, because honestly, he's an important asset. If you're trying to protect Sequan Barkley, you need Will Shipley to be healthy. So I don't think that they're going to overwork him in. preseason but my guess is he'll work with the ones and you know go accordingly from there as we get into those three preseason games yeah so shipley is fascinating to me for a number of of reasons here because if you're talking about like under the radar important eagles this is an under the

radar in portan eagle because if something were to happen to say kwan yeah i agree shipley would probably be the first one up in terms of like the versatility that he that he presents Kenny Gainwell was a Nick Siriani favorite That's not me saying it Nick jokes that Yeah Nick Siriani joke that That player say it

And I don't want to come off as anti-Gainwell Gainwell was serviceable In four years here Nice guy What he wasn't was explosive Right His career long I believe was 32 yards He had five

Career runs of 20 plus yards in his career He was not explosive. And I think coming out of Memphis, I'll defer to you, but there was a thought that he would be more explosive, right? That he, him in, you know, Memphis kind of had that joint backfield with him in there, and you thought that was going to be a little bit more.

He was more kind of like your steady player. Nixiriani trusted him in two minutes. He could block. He could catch. He was a fine backup. But I think Shipley provides a more explosive threat, right? Shipley was a sub-4-4 runner when, you know, I'm coming out of the combine. He was an all-purpose player at Clemson.

You saw him run. You saw him catch. You saw him return. We all saw in the NFC championship game last year. He had the big run through the middle right now. I know everyone was getting theirs, so to speak, last year. But I'm intrigued by Shipley. I was intrigued when they drafted him.

Howie, or I'm sorry, Bo would joke that, and maybe it's not joke, that I am overstating it when I say that he was the highest drafted running back since Miles Sanders, when he was the highest drafted running back since Miles Sanders. But look, they spent a fourth rounder on Shipley, which they hadn't typically done. And yeah, I am expecting Shipley to be the number two back.

I'm curious, we've discussed this before, but coming out of Clemson, did you think Shipley could be a starting caliber player in the NFL? Did you think he was more like an RB2 type? Yeah, I was more like RB2, RB3 type. You know, to me, like I saw, I thought there were some limitations there. And I could pull up the full notes. But I definitely had him as more of a backup, you know, change of pace type of option. you know and look well i'm i'm fascinated to see that the we're talking about what are some of the things

that we'll be watching for i thought that pass protection was definitely an area of growth for him where i'd like to see him get better and that is an area where in preseason we get to see those one-on-ones with linebackers and we'll get a hopefully get a chance to see some of that in the preseason as well that is an area that i'm hoping that he can kind of pick things up now i don't think that he's going to be the pure third downback for the same reasons that last year kenny gainwell was not the pure third down back you won't sayquan bar out there on third down. Not only is he a really good receiver, but also he's a really good pass protector as well. But I do think that that's an area where you want Will Shipley to

take that next step as well. Now, the way I presented it to you was Will Shipley or A.J. Dillon. A.J. Dillon is kind of an under the radar signing here in that you don't know if he's going to be on the team, but there's a chance that he could have a good role on the team. A.J. Dillon's been a good running back, like a fine running back in the NFL, 590s. carries, 2400 and 28 yards, 16 touchdowns over four seasons with Green Bay. Him and Aaron Jones had that thunder lightning combination. He was also a fairly productive pass catcher, too, 34 catches in 2021. And, you know, he was somewhat reliable in the past game.

He did not play in the NFL last year because of a neck injury. He was clear to play. The Eagles signed him early in free agency. There's an opportunity here. It's a lottery ticket signing, but he's still young, right? I mean, he's he's 27 years old. He just turned 27. He was a second round pick, real good player at Boston College, and bring something that

the Eagles haven't had, which is that big, bruising, physical running back. He's listed at 6 foot 247 pounds. We all know the quad competition between him and, Sequin, do you have any expectations for AJ Dillon going into the summer? I think that the big thing is we've seen that it's not just the Eagles, but because this happens all around the NFL, you have these vets that, you know, sign these one-year deals, approve of a type of contract coming off of an extensive injury. And it's, you know what, this guy just, he doesn't have it anymore or the injury just proved

to be too much. That's to be the first hurdle for A.J. Dylan is, okay, is he healthy enough to contribute? You know, is there, because it's, there's, obviously, it's a, it's a non-zero chance that he just, he doesn't have it. And he's not even on the team by the time you get the final cuts. Like, that is something that could happen, you know, in the range of outcomes. Now, it's also possible that he becomes like the number two back, right? And he over and he's that guy. So, uh, there's a wide range of possibilities here.

But I think when you're looking at AJ Dylan, you know, and what he can bring to me, like, this is the kind of back that I think is really helpful for having Sequin Barkley. because, you know, we talked about it last year. We talked about it earlier. When you have Kenny Gainwell and you want to try and find a spot for him to take some of that load off of Sequin. You're sorry, well, third down is a good area. But you want Seekwon out there on third down. You would say the same thing about Shipley. With Dylan, he can take some of those, you know, third and ones.

He could take first and 10, you know, second and five. And he can be that kind of, he can be that kind of hammer to take some of those big hits. You talk about like hits to the ground. Let, let AJ Dylan be the innings eater that way. and eat some of that contact up so that Sequin can be, you know, a little bit more fresh when it comes to later in the game. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I have AJ Dillon on my 53 right now.

Again, it's not a guaranteed spot. You need to see how he recovers. But I am intrigued to see A.J. Dylan in the preseason games more than anything else. Like I don't think he's the type of player who if he gets the ball in a training camp practice, you're like, ooh, there's A.J. Dillen, right? you want to see him break tackles, you want to see him run between the tackles. Certainly you would like to see some juice from him as much as there is from a 247 pound back.

But I think this is more of a preseason type question and especially how does he recover from getting hit? Because, you know, that is an injury that you cannot dismiss. So if AJ Dillon does not make the team, who will that third running back be? Fran Duffy will answer that question after these messages. Let me tell everybody there about our good friends at, I have it right here, at Empire Today. Okay? Because just like your favorite team needs a home field advantage, your home needs a home floor advantage. An Empire Today can help you get it.

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Restrictions apply. Visit Empire Today slash PHLY for full details. All right, friend, here's an impression of me from yesterday. Okay. That's me walking into my house, sweating like a pig. because it is feeling like a sauna in there. Yeah, I mean, you know how it is. This time of year, it's Philly heat.

It's no joke. So, what do I do? Do I go jump in a lake? It's not going to happen. So I just got a bunch of ice. Like, held it, rubbed it on my face, stuffed it down my shirt,

stuffed it down my pants. The only way I could think to cool down. I mean, stop being the stereotypical dad, though. Like, turn on the AC. It's time to fire that thing up. I don't want to be, I want to waste money, the energy efficient.

Well, look, instead of icing yourself out, or jumping into a lake. You could just check out Pico's energy-saving rebates. They've got deals on Energy Star cooling equipment that actually work and cut down on your bills. So no more ice down my pants? No, you could skip the ice, save the ice, and you throw in my drinks when I come over.

The same ice? No, we'll change the ice up. Okay, fine. That's what's up. All right, well, just head over to pico.com slash ways to save. They've got tips for everything. Heating, cooling, lighting, you name it.

Always good to see Bo. And that's a fun pico ad. During the ad reads, I was checking out the chat, Fran. And I got to say, there's people enjoying what they're calling the Fran o'clock shadow. They're saying more facial hair today. Is this a new look? Is this something that, you know, is this like you're like you're doing a Matt Eberfluse where you have someone watching all your shows?

And it's like, let's, let's figure out how, how we can mix this up this year. No, it's not an average, Matt Eberfluse. Honestly, this happens more, most often during the summer where I'll let it go for a few days. This is by accident. I wasn't planning on doing it. I made the mistake of, I got to change the razor out. Let me change the razor, dump this, sorry, throw this in the trash. And thinking like, oh, yeah, I've got my refill and didn't have the refill.

So I'm waiting on the refill. So this is what we got for a couple. days. Well, you pull it off. Yeah, you pull it off well. Well, thank you. Once I get, when I was younger, this never came in. So I always would go clean shaven. Now, you know, now I get older, it's, it comes in full. But yeah, I prefer the clean shaven look. Not to be vain here, but I, you know, I went hat today, right? At the camp, four hours the hack got home didn't shower right didn't just just didn't have enough time to do the post camp shower like I would training camp so changed into the hoodie and wet the hair but didn't

have the full shower and because of that there's a few strands that I can't quite you know that are just sticking out it's a skew and the problem with this show or I shouldn't say the problem with the show. When we're remote, you see yourself up close every time, right? So I'm trying not to let that bother me. But yeah, that's, if you see me during France talking, going like this, I'm trying to get that hair to stick into place. So let me, I'm not going to give you the name of the product just because of the free advertisement, but there's a, I actually use it. It's a powder. So if your hair's dry, you just throw a little powder in and that that'll set it. So I'll throw a little in now so if you can get a sent you go text me that off yeah yeah I will yeah but it's like you do that

and then that gets rid of the strays uh but yeah it's pretty well works pretty well there you go the stray hair that's that's that's that's a that's a tough one here um let's get back in the running backs i wish i had a better transition here if if if if i was as as good of a host as as as bow i would probably be talking about like lew nichols's hair or something like that uh instead let's let's get into the backup running back situation. And there's actually one player here that we have not discussed that I'm curious your perspective on. So Lou Nichols, we'll talk about him.

Shendarik Powell, who you're probably the foremost Shundarik Powell expert in the Philly market right now because you're a draft expert. Montreal Johnson, the undrafted rookie out of Florida. But the player who we have not discussed is Keelan Robinson, a fifth round pick by the Jags in 2025. went to Texas. He started his college career at Alabama, so a pedigreeed player, Alabama and Texas. And he gets waived in June, and the Eagles claim him.

And I got to say, you know, we didn't do an emergency show when the Eagles claimed Keel and Robinson off of waivers. But he wasn't drafted that far behind Will Shipley one year ago, right? I mean, this is someone who was kind of in that bucket of, you know, Shipley, Brayland Allen, some of those running backs we were talking about on day three in 2024. I think this is an interesting place to start because we haven't discussed him. And because you studied him coming out, what's your Keelan-Robinson Intel? Honestly, I had a similar grade on Robinson that I had on Shipley last year. You know, I thought that they could serve similar kind of roles.

he was more proven Keelan Robinson on special teams compared to Shipley. This is a guy that played 555 snaps. His last two years, he was a core four starter. When I say core four starter, that means like you play punt, punt return, kickoff and kickoff return. If you are a starter on all four of those units, you are called a core four starter. And even when he wasn't that guy like the year before in 2021, he started on three of the four units. This is a guy that can help you in a lot of different ways on fourth down. and then, you know, when you look at what he can do offensively, can catch the ball well out of the backfield.

He ran faster than Shipley, a little bit smaller. You know, he came into 5-8, a bit over 190 at his pro day. But legit 4-4 speed, explosive traits that show up on film. I thought that was honestly the best thing that he brought to the table. Like, this is a guy who has straight-line explosiveness, can play on special teams. There's toughness there. I thought he was just okay as a runner. But I thought he had the ability to be that kind of a change of.

pace option out of the backfield. Like I said, he did catch the ball pretty well. Not a ton of work in pass bro. So that was going to be a big question for me. Obviously, it's unfortunate that a team that drafted on them was willing to move on that fast, but new regime, obviously, down there in Jacksonville, new coaching staff. And so it stands the reason that there's something there. And who knows?

I mean, I wouldn't rule it out that maybe once he hit the waiver wire that, you know, the Eagles knew some people down in Jacksonville last year, maybe made some calls. So like, what did you think of this kid? is he worth putting an acclaimant on and so they could bring him into the fold? Yeah, that's good intel there. And, you know, the reality is, you're right. I mean, the Jaguar is not just new coaching staff,

but that's a team that invested in running backs in the draft. Bo's favorite back, Tutin, when goes to Jacksonville. Liam Cohen, the head coach in Jacksonville, has a particular style of back that he tends to look for. But, you know, I make the point that this is someone that the Eagles claimed off. off waivers.

It's not something that the Eagles signed. So when there was a distinction there, and I understand, you know, they're the last team on the waiver wire. So, you know, 31 teams passed on him in order to get to the Eagles. But this is someone that the Eagles wanted to rush to bring into their building. So I mentioned the backs that he's competing with. He certainly has the most draft pedigree in this group.

Would you consider him if there's one, of the other receiving votes, if you will, who's going to make the 53. Do you think it's Keelan Robinson or would you go with one of the undrafted guys? Would you go with Lou Nichols? Yeah, I mean, honestly, I would give them all kind of even footing. At this point, Lou Nichols probably has the poll position, but I wouldn't say that he's going to be head and shoulders ahead of Keelan Robinson, ahead of Shundarck Powell or Montre Johnson.

I think, or Montreal Johnson, I think when you're looking at all four backs, it's okay, who's got that ability to help on special teams? but if if a j dillan's on the roster you need that fourth back to be able to help you on specials and so that's where keelan robinson his experience is definitely going to help him there shun derrick powell he has been a returner over the course of his time in college can he help you out there montchral johnson can he help you out from his core unit standpoint and then lu nichols again he's since he was with the team uh last off season he's going to have a leg up and understanding the system understanding the terminology understanding also the special team's expectations

as well. And so I think all four, that's definitely a worthwhile battle to keep an eye on as we get into the heat of the summer. And I'm glad you referenced the special teams component of it because running backs one of the, it's probably one of the few positions where you don't read too much into the preseason games because the preseason performance is typically not how a player would be used in, if they make the 53. So we've seen guys in the past, like Henry Josie, for instance, you know, pick up yards in the preseason game. But when you're talking about the 53, it's like, all right, can he cut?

You know, if he's not the returner, you know, is this a guy who can cover kicks for you? Is this, as you said, a core four guy? So like they're where they're very well might be a Montreal Johnson or Shandren or Shandaric Powell who has a big run in the preseason. But that's, that doesn't move the needle as much as like, what's the utility? on the team. It could help you with practice squad. I don't think it helps you with the 53. And again, that's how that's how Corey Clement made the roster in 2017. You know, that's how we, I shouldn't say we all. Maybe you, maybe you might, I'm sure you've seen it, but like I remember the America's game, the NFL films, uh, film on the Denver Broncos when they won the Super Bowl.

What was that, 97? Terell Davis, like running down on kickoff and I make a tackle early on his career. And it's like, yeah, and that that's when that he won people over with that. you kind of need that fourth back if he needs to be able to have an impact in that area of the game. And then one other player who we didn't talk, who we did not talk about, I don't know if he's a running back or not, but that's Avery Williams. And he's kind of the versatile piece. Would you, you know,

he's probably the one who's like competing with a Keeling Williams in terms of being that core four guy. Would you put Avery Williams among the running backs here? Do you think more likely a wide receiver? Yeah. I mean, my guess is that he'd be more with the running backs, but that remains to be seen. I guess we'll get a sense of it. You know,

if he's working off the side with the specialists all day during practice or if he's going to be on offense or defense or both or what. But he has worked out at corner. He has worked out on offense at the skill positions, not just in the NFL, but in college as well at Boise State. And so that is going to be very interesting. What's your gut tell you there?

Yeah, I mean, I'm expecting Avery Williams to be on the team, but he's been hurt. He was heard all spring, so we really didn't get a chance to see him. And yeah, this isn't a guy who's guaranteed at a spot. I think he'll probably be more among the wide receivers, but it's a gadget player. So to talk about former Jaguar's draft picks, it's kind of like DeNard Robinson, right? It's like he's an offensive weapon, right?

It's not designated running back, designated wide receiver. But I would probably lean more toward the wide receivers, although I don't say that with like the utmost certainty either. Yeah. So we combined running backs and tight ends in this show. And it's like, how do you transition from running back to tight end? Well, there's one way to do it. And that is to look at is there a position that combines the elements of running back and tight end? And in the past, we haven't talked about that position.

Today we are. And that is fullback. Okay? Because we are talking about a fullback here going into training camp for, the first time, probably since 2012, 2013, maybe 2016. They considered it in 2016, but not really. Aguaguanu. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the Emil, he was the 13 camp. And when they abandoned that, and Doug talked about bringing him back and bring back tight end. I'm sorry,

bringing back fullback never really took. And then you're finally kind of seeing it now. By the way, really good interview that I read over the weekend on GoLong TD, Tyler Duns substack. He did an interview with Kahari Blossengame, and I thought there was some good insight there. So make sure you check that out. Blossengen, of course, was the fullback last year. And the player he replaced was Ben Van Sumerin. Ben Van Van Sumerin recovering from a season-ending injury. He is, he's back.

He was a linebacker last year before the Eagles moved in the full. to fullback. And he kind of played both. I think now he's more fullback than he is linebacker, also special teams player, someone who has good athletic traits, someone who the Eagles found an increasing role for him last year before the injury. Do you think Van Sumeran is on the 53 if he's healthy? And what do you want to see from Van Sumer in training camp this summer?

I actually do, I do think he's on the 53. There were some people that were really excited about him, you know, right? he got hurt. I think that there was juice built in again, keeping it. I understand he wasn't going to be a, you know, an eight touch of game player. Yeah. But I think people were excited about what he was bringing to the offensive side of the football. And so his injury was untimely for him last year. But I think when you're looking at him, my expectations are that he would be on the team.

Now you want to see what he looks like coming off the injury and, you know, are there other guys that, you know, kind of take that roster spot. But when you're looking at, you know, who who is competing with Keelan Robinson, Yeah. That's a guy and Ben Van Van Van Van Van Sumer. And like, yeah, he's going to be a core special teamer. He is going to be competing with Robinson and others for one of those final spots on the roster. And I'm putting on the spot here. You didn't prep for this.

So I apologize. But like, what's that, you know, how's that work in the in the scouting process? Because he does have running back in his background. Is it the type of thing where the scouts are saying like there's a chance he could be a two-way guy? was it the type of thing where he gets in and it's like they're looking for for volunteers. You know, did they, I know they didn't sign him with the intention of him being a fullback, but I imagine that this isn't something that like came as a surprise to some of the people who scouted him in the Midwest. Yeah, I think that it's always part of the, part of the projection, right?

It's not necessarily, oh, well, if he fails here, we could try him there. But it's also like, hey, like, if we in a pinch, if we want to try him here, you know, we can, we can try and see if we can make that switch over. And that's, from my understanding, that's kind of how it worked, was that there were a lot of numbers at linebacker last year. And, you know, obviously it was a new defensive scheme. And you say, all right, well, this guy's here in the building. Let's let's try him over the other side and see if we can find a roll for him.

And it ended up working out to the point where they wanted to invest more time and effort and resources into trying to get some juice out of that. And I think that they were able to and they were on their path to get more until until he got hurt. You've waited this long to hear about tight ends. you're going to have to wait a few minutes longer because after this break we will tell you if the eagles have the depth they need behind Dallas Goddard. Stay tuned. I mentioned earlier that I was wearing a hat at the Sequan-Barkley camp today.

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And it looked like that might not be the case this year. That is the case this year. Dallas Goddard's back. Did you know, and I'm going to give credit to our friend Jimmy Kempski here when I was reading something from him, I didn't put this together until I saw it in his piece. Dallas Goddard was the Eagles leading receiver during the postseason. I knew he had a good postseason. I didn't kind of put that together.

But that Dallas Goddard comes back. probably his last year with Eagles. They find resolution post-draft. Yep. Probably a similar type of thing where, all right, we'll see you on September 4th. But I think he's a player who could have a good summer. G. Allen certainly looks his way during these training camp practices.

Yeah, I think when you're looking at Dallas Goddard, my expectations are that he's going to continue. When he's out there, he's one of the best tight ends in football. And so that would be my expectation. I agree with you. It's going to be one of those things where, you know, We're not necessarily going to be looking for, you know, is he having a good camp or not? I would expect that he's going to have a Dallas-Ga-Level of performance.

I don't think we saw a drop-off from him in its level of play a year ago. In fact, like he's looked as good as he ever has. It was just the injuries that really kind of took hold last fall. So I think when you're looking at Dallas, yeah, I would expect more of the same. We know the impact he can have, not just in the past game, but as we've talked about on the show, on the running game as well. So you said when Dallas Goddard's out there. Here's the thing. Last year in the regular season, 10 games.

2023, the regular season, 14 games. 2022, regular season, 12 games. 2021, 14 games. 20, or I'm sorry. 15 games, 21, 11 games, 20, 15 games, 19. Then he played 16 games, the full 16 game season in 2018. But really hasn't played a full season since his rookie year. and has missed a lot of time here during the past few years.

That's why tight end depth is so important. The Eagles bring back Grand Calcutera as the number two tight end. But Grand Catara could be pushed. Is Calcutera your number two tight end? Or do you think it's somebody else? Harrison Bryant, Kylin Granson. What's your read on that? We got to be, what, a month and 10 days out from Harrison Bryant day?

Because what do we say that was? I was August 19th, I believe, right? Is that right? Okay. Yeah. Reserv was August 19th. Claire might be able to in the chat might be able to help us out there. But I think we're getting close to you and Bo talking through Harrison Bryant.

But I think that when you're looking at this tight end room, honestly, like Calcutera showed me enough. He showed me enough this past season to say like, yeah, he could be the number two guy. I mean, he did it last year. And especially because, again, in this passing game, you know, you're not. not relying on that tight end position to be, you know, someone that you're going to lean on heavily as a high volume target. Where you do, where the drop off happens is in the run game.

I think that when you're looking at, at Dallas, they don't have anybody else that can put their hand in the ground and say like, all right, we're going to be that blocker. Harrison Bryant has gotten a lot better at that, you know,

since he came into the NFL out of college at FIU, but our FAUR, you rather, but was it Florida Atlantic? Yeah, it was Florida Atlantic, right? With Harrison Bryant. to me that's one of the areas where he has grown, but still certainly not the impact player that Dallas Goddard has become

over the course of his career in that area. Yeah, good point. And, you know, Harrison Bryant, yeah, he's, he is like, he's intriguing to me because I liked some of what he did in Cleveland. And I thought it was just a tough situation in Vegas last year. He signs there to be Michael Mayer's number two. and then what happens, Michael Mayer, the Eagles draft, I'm sorry, the Raiders draft Brock Bowers,

essentially blocking Harrison Bryant from having the year that he thought he was going to have. I do think he's going to push Calcutara. Now, Calcutera has been good as the got-at-replacement. Hasn't been as effective as a blocker, as Professor Selman pointed out. And as you pointed out, I think that Washington game last year really stands out, right?

but between him and Rogers so it was a rough but he's showing that he can catch the ball he has a background with Jalen Hertz of course I'm still putting Calcutera as the favorite to be the number two but it's honestly it's probably a similar type of thing to the running backs

where you're looking at almost like a tight end committee between Calcutera and Harrison Bryant or could it be Kylie Granson and Kylie Granson Hallie Roseman kind of talked about the Tray Burton qualities to Kiley Granson. Do you see that?

And do you see Colin Granson as a guy who can push here? Yeah, I think Granson is a player that I would not factor out of this equation at all. I forget which whatever game it was and where it was discovered that you and Bo were of like minds when it came to Harrison Brian. I was more on the Kylan Grantson end of it. Just because of what that upside could be in the past game and some of the things that you can do with him as that move piece at the position. You mentioned Trey Burton. Like he's that kind of body type skill set. But, you know, he's not, he's not going to be.

He's a certain kind of blocker, right? He's a guy that you want to try to use on the move in that way. But I would say he's similar to Calcutera. So there's a, I think when you're looking at like skill set wise, there's going to be a drop off there. I think when we were doing this show last year, maybe it was the undirected rookie show. And we spent 10 minutes on McCallum castles, right?

Who got her, didn't really factor into it. Right. The Eagles didn't really have much tight end depth last year. There was the Alberto of it all, as Bo would say. And cause Bill a lot of grief and strife in the Eagles letting Dill McMahon go for Alberto. But the Eagles have brought in some players with draft pedigree here behind them. So, and it's probably a stretch to say players. Player is what I would say.

And that's Cameron Latu, a 20, 23. third round pick out of Alabama. He kind of took the San Francisco or it's actually probably San Jose Airport, if I'm being honest with you, because where they are. The San Jose to Philly flight, the same one that Ty Davis Price took and Trey Serman took, Danny Gray took. If you're a third round pick, fourth round pick by the 49ers, you're bound to play under Howard Roseman, you know, in Philly for Harry Roseman at some point here. uh, Cam Latu, I actually liked him coming out of Bama.

Um, you know, there were, there were some, some flashes there, uh, when he was at Bama. clearly didn't work when he was in college.

Um, but I thought this spring, you know, there was the play that, that stands to mind, that, uh, there was a common court pass to Latu,

also Nick Mews, who will get to. Um, but is there juice there? Is, is he someone who can push for the number three job? Yeah. I mean,

I've never really seen it with Latu personally. He was like outside my top 15, a tight end. That year, that was one of the more surprising draft picks in 2023 for me was it was when they took him in the third round, San Francisco. So it was not shocking to me that this is kind of the way that it unfolded for him. But there, I think that there's enough there to say like, okay, can he can he try and compete for the third or fourth tight end spot? Yes. Is he going to unseat, you know, the guys that we've already talked about? Van Sumer and because that's the other thing too is that Van Sumer is going to you know he kind of

plays a part here with the numbers game when it goes in when we start talking about the 53 man roster at the end of August my guess is no but a strong preseason a strong summer could sway the other way and then you know probably one of like the the funniest eagle storylines last year is Nick Muse okay um Nick Muse doesn't have to go through training camp with the team team doesn't have to go through the season with the rigors of the season. Nick Muse, who's a seventh round pick by the Vikings in 2022, signs on to the Eagles practice squad during the playoffs, goes to the Super Bowl with the team, gets the Super Bowl parade, like gets the most fun part of the season, and doesn't, you know, I joked on a show before,

Devin White is probably like throwing darts at a picture of Nick Mews wherever he is right now. Because Devin White has to deal with like the toughest part of the scene. Devin White has to do the Brazil trip. Devin White has to do training camp. That miserable game in Tampa Bay. Although I don't think Devin White actually was at the stadium for that one. Maybe I think he was excused. But Nick, Nick Mews gets the fun time.

Nick Mewish showed a little juice in the summer. I'm sorry, in the spring. What do you think of the former South Carolina Gamecock? Yeah, I mean, to me, like he, I had him in the same bucket as a lot of these guys that were already talking about where it was like, all right, like third or fourth tight end can play a role for you. But didn't necessarily move the needle for me. He was an older prospect when he came out and didn't really put up huge numbers if memory serves until a little bit later in his college career. But I think when you're looking at what, you know, what he can bring to the table, you know, again, there's something there. But all these guys, I think when you're looking at when you're looking at this entire group of Nick Muse, Latu, Harrison Bryant, and then one of the darlings of last spring, E.J. Jenkins and Colin Granson, all those guys are competing for two spots max, maybe one, maybe one spot if you think that Van Zumrin gets grouped in with that group.

because I mean my guess is like when we get to individual drills like do you think van sumer is working with this group or do you think he's working with the running backs like he's going to be with singleton or is he going to be uh you know over with uh you know with j michael good question my guess is with michael yeah i would guess with michael too just because the blocking component too you want to see him block more than you want to see him run but yeah that's a good point um and you mentioned e j jenkins i was saving him here because uh this is this is where you know i've been boa-fodified in that I've liked talking to E.J. Jenkins.

I've watched E.J. Jenkins practice. I've watched E.J. Jenkins play. I saw E.J. Jenkins have that touchdown against the Giants in Week 18. But when you bring up E.J. Jenkins' name to me, the first thing that I think, the first thing that I think is our friend Matt Quinn from Mount Joy singing the tight end song. And so E.J. Jenkins, who is part of the show's lore because of that. But E.J. Jenkins is someone who was with the team last year, contributed on special teams, a converted wide receiver. What's your sense on E.J. Jenkins? And should he have been the first guy I mentioned in this group?

No, I don't think that he needed to be the first guy mentioned. But I think that when you look at what he brings to the table, it's probably closer to the Kylan Granson level of like, are they he's going to be. pass first, backup tight end, move player, not necessarily going to consistently win at the point of attack in the run game, but can bring you value as a pass catcher on the run. And so, you know, can he outperform those guys? Special teams is going to be big for everybody in this part of the conversation as well. You know, so who can make a, who can make a dent in those battles, you know, covering kicks and, you know, and helping out on the punt team. So I think when you're looking at all of that, that's where it starts to really come into play. So is, Is this, I want to ask you this too, this is in my notes here.

Is this an under the radar trade possibility for the Eagles? Could they look for a tight end to via trade? I don't think it would be a tight end too. I actually, so let me ask you this. Do you think it's more likely that they add a vet, I'm going to answer your question with the question. More likely they add a vet tight end or more likely they add a vet running back? Because I actually think that the running back is more likely only because of the questions

around AJ Dillon. Like if Dylan, if Dylan just doesn't have it and you have to move on fast, then you're probably going to your short list there with whoever the top running backs are available. I mean more likely for a vet tight end, if I'm being honest with you. Yeah. Because I think you're more likely to carry an underrefted rookie as your third running back. And I think they're, yeah, I think they're trying to, I know there's this glut of tight ends. And, you know, they didn't lose that position.

They added to that position. but there's no one there who I think is like short fire to make the team and I think they're also you know the only tight end who signed beyond this season is Cameron Latu so this is a position that the Eagles are thinking about long term and look you know I have a type okay I'm not how pets comes in huh not mentioning Kyle Pitts here this is not Kyle Pitts friend this is someone else who if you read my montraffs in the past you would know this is someone else who if you read my montraffs in the past you would know this is someone someone who I liked. If you know, if you follow recruiting rankings, you know this is someone who I liked. If you just look at if, if people say, I'm not saying everyone says this, people say that Howie and I tend to think similar in prospects sometimes, right? People say it. People say that. People say that. Some people might not say it, but some people say it. Um, so let's look at size, relative speed, big time school, draft pedigree,

recruiting ranking, and a chance that maybe he's being phased out with the team that he's on right now. The name that I'm talking about is Darnell Washington from the Pittsburgh Steelers. They bring in Janu Smith.

You're looking for that blocking tight end. You're looking to keep this Georgia connection. Darnell Washington, come on down. am I wrong here, Bo? I'm sorry, Fran. Am I wrong here, Fran? Yeah, I would be shocked if they were going to move on from him. I think that they have a way that they're going to want to play out in Pittsburgh.

And I think that Washington is going to be a big part of that when you're looking at his value at the point of attack. I mean, he is a sixth offensive lineman. I was like talking with people that were watching training camp there last year and seeing him up close. And it was like, that guy is 300 pounds. You know, so you're looking at Darnell Washington. No, I think he's a Pittsburgh Steeler this year. Okay. So there I was.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. Yeah. I mean, Darnell Washington is like, you know, he's the, I'm surprised I didn't take him in the 32 team draft. I mean, I've been bullish on Darnell Washington going back, going back to when he was, I think he was coming out of Vegas. I think he's a, I think he was a Bishop Gorman guy. Bishop Gorman guy. If memory serves. Yeah.

I honestly, I thought you were going on Michael Mayer. You know, that's that's too, that's too hipster. I'm sorry, too mainstream, yeah. Too mainstream.

Yeah. I'm sorry, I screwed up my, that's, that's too mainstream. I was talking about Michael Mayer before talk radio hosts were talking about Michael Mayer,

right? Like Michael Mayer, I was talking about Michael Mayer at the trade deadline last year. You're watching, if you're watching a 257 on July 9th, you're looking for something more than the first name in the Google search for the tight ends.

You know what? You're connecting dots. You're saying Philly's own John News Smith was traded to Pittsburgh. Could this be? Could darn out Washington fit in here? But I agree with you. I don't see how that serves the Steelers unless they're going to change the way they play. Yeah.

I think that with what we've seen from them over the last, we'll call it seven weeks, they are pushing their chips in. And I think the way that they want to play, the run game is going to be a big part of that. And Washington, obviously, that's where he brings the most value. So we are three days in now to the training camp previews. And I think what stands out is we've discussed four positions. Well, frankly, more than four positions because offensive line, you're talking about three. Yeah, we're talking about interior tackle and center.

But we haven't we haven't encountered a position that is of concern yet. Right. I mean, every one of these positions that we've discussed, it's like, yeah, they're good. They're good. They're good here. You know, the depth might be a question. But outside of Tyler, I mean, this is the story of Eagles offense this year is, is it's like, all right, can they be consistent?

What's the evolution here? But you're not really worried about the personnel. And that's why, you know, I think training camp this year, it's like, there's probably going to be more intrigue about the backups than the front line guys because we know to expect from these front line guys. Yeah, I mean, there's a reason why this team won the Super Bowl last. year you feel good about the state of the roster. Now, you know, it's not like Howie Roseman is just sitting back with his feet on his desk and cracking his knuckles. Obviously, those guys are

going to be white knuckling it, you know, going through, going through the rest of the summer and trying to unturn every rock to find talent. But I think that, yeah, this is a good roster for a reason. Stick around in overtime to find out the rest of the show. That made no sense to find out the rest of the show, to find out what we'll talk about for the rest of the show, which is you're for good, which is tomorrow, we're back in studio. It's going to be good to see you in the flesh. I'll see if that, you know, if you shave or if you keep it rolling here. I feel like it's different in studio.

Because you're seeing more of this. This is not as flattering. Like, this is not as good. The neck. I feel a little bit better here. Okay. So we will be, we'll be talking wide receivers tomorrow. Yeah.

And yeah, I think wide receivers can carry. the full show and brings us to defense next week. And Friday. But, yeah, wide receivers will be the topic tomorrow. So we will discuss A.J. Brown. We will discuss Devante Smith. We will discuss a potential Jahan Dotson breakout, or not breakout, but improvement. But then who's behind Jahan Dotson?

You'll get Fran's insight on Johnny Wilson and I. Smith. Can Teres Marshall have a little renaissance here? Can he be the reclamation project? So it should be a fun show tomorrow, especially for the fantasy football fans out there. Yeah, and hopefully, you know, that crew got a little bit of value out of this one as well. But this is, like I said, I mean, this is,

it's a good roster. And it's going to be a fun summer, just kind of charting some of these storylines that we've talked through, especially when you get into the back end machinations of the depth chart and trying to narrow it down from 90 to 53. I'm remiss to say that.

it is Wednesday. The Eagles will be practicing two weeks from today. They will be on the field at NovaCare Complex. They'll probably practice shorter than Saquan Barclay had the kids out there today. But it'll be fun. We can't wait here on the PHI Eagles show, but we will be back tomorrow and Friday and every day, every Monday to Friday, before training camps. So make sure you check us out 2 o'clock tomorrow. Until then, Ethan did a great job producing the show. Thank you to Ethan, Fran, the best draft analyst in the business. Eagles analyst as well. I'm thrilled to have him here at All-City. I'm Zach Berman. If Boe Wolf were here, he would tell you, as always we love you. I will say we'll do better tomorrow. Thanks for watching.