PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Training Camp, Day 6: Can Saquon Barkley be more of a factor as a receiver?

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

With DeVonta Smith on the sideline, Jalen Hurts leaned on some non-A.J. Brown targets during Thursday’s practice, from stalwarts like Dallas Goedert and Saquon Barkley to question marks like Jahan Dotson, although Hurts was also intercepted by Eli Ricks during a competitive period. Is that how this offense evolves under Kevin Patullo? Zach Berman and Bo Wulf recap practice, including some moving parts on defense, and wonder about the future of the offense. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the PHLI Eagles podcast on a sweaty Thursday afternoon. It's about to start pouring outside, but we are here to talk about the birds. And of course, we are presented by Do Dad Dental Group and True Mark Financial. And right off the bat, we've got a super chat from Jim Jam Row who says, I feel like my two dads told me they're getting divorced, but I get to watch them have great breakup sex for one more week. Thanks for the good times, ZB. How you doing, Zach? I appreciate the support.

And I'm doing well. I found a t-shirt in my in my trunk that I was able to, so I was able to change from the sweaty shirt. But why did you, wait a second. Why don't you bring the sweaty shirt in? I couldn't go over to there. We're taping something over there. Yeah, but you're going to left it over there. Why don't you?

Why are you holding your sweaty shirt? I didn't know where to put it, honestly. Sweaty from all that sex. I'm staying away from that. But anyways, excited for the show. I love doing shows with you. So this is going to be fun. Yeah, should be fun.

An interesting day at camp today. Not a full pads day. Pads up top. Shells up top and not below. Let's not worry about what we're wearing down below. But lots to talk about. Some guys injured. We're going to go through it all.

And, you know, we don't have too many left to these. We've got to make the most of it. We don't need to keep belaboring that point, but yeah, I'm excited for the show. Okay. What was your number one takeaway? Let's get, let's get to it. The inefficiency of the offense was, and so it was partly, you know, Devante Smith's not out there. They didn't pass that much, but like the first team offense, I thought was not really moving the ball particularly well throughout the day.

Would you agree with that? We just have a different way of looking at what happens at practice. Okay. Like, I'm just not as concerned with the results. You know what I mean? Well, I'm not saying the offense is bad. But we're there at practice. Like, the offense wasn't moving the ball.

Sure. But, I mean, I actually thought I thought it was encouraging that Jill and Hertz was throwing to other guys. Like, you know, he threw to Johan Dotson several times, including one nice completion and one downfield throw that was just incomplete. I thought he did a good job moving in the pocket at one point and finding Dallas Goddard as like his third or fourth read. And then got or dropped the ball. But then later on, he came right back to him.

I thought he made a good play checking it down to Sequin Barclay. He has hands. He has hands. We will get to what happened in the competitive period at the end. But I didn't think the offense was like anemic. I thought it was, I thought it was good process today for the most part. Okay.

I see what you're saying in terms of those nuances of spreading the ball around. I thought that, you know, there were there were two sacks. Right against him. So you start, I thought that they, the, the ball hit the ground a few times more. There were times when Jalen was holding the ball. They, without Devante Smith, it looked a little different out there. And that was the case, the last practice as well. So I'm happy to see.

Yeah. Jalen Hertz getting the reps throwing to these other guys. Sure. I think that's good. Sure. Yeah. But I didn't think the offense was especially efficient today. Yeah.

Yeah. But I think that's fine. It's one day, you know. But he said what's your takeaway from practice? I mean, I can say it's like that day that it's like the day Miles Sanders got snaps with the second team. And I'm like, I'm not saying he's going to be the second team running back, but like that's something that I observed in practice that day. Okay. Yeah.

Let's talk about what happened at the end because that was, that was bad. This was a specific situation. offense has the ball on the 25 yard line, the plus 25 yard line, 48 seconds left, no timeouts, down 8. So you've got to go score. And on the first play, for some reason, it's ones against ones. Eli Ricks gets his first rep of camp as the starting red cornerback opposite. Yeah, what did you make of that?

I don't know, because they came back and it was back to Adori Jackson. So I don't know if Adori Jackson had to pee or something like that, but Eli Ricks is out there. One play, and I don't know, did Seypon Barst's, strictly slip or what exactly happened. But on the first play, Jalen Hertz throws an interception that Eli Ricks with no

offensive player around. Exactly. So it was a bit of a gift interception, but good for Eli Ricks. What a rate. One snap, one pick. Sure. Second interception of the summer.

Yeah, that was not a great play, but it also was one where did a guy fall? Yeah. Clearly, they were not on the same page. And that's where I wish we had to replay in practice, right? So you're, you know, I'm,

I was standing behind the end zone. and so I didn't get the full glimpse of what happened on the play. And then they got another chance at it. And this one, maybe even more negative because that of the play seemed a little bit fluky. They just, I mean, they couldn't move the ball. They had to get, so first down incomplete, second down, it's like a scrambler on checkdown.

And I know that Dan is in particular, it's not going to like this. Because as the clock is clicking down, there's like 30 seconds left. You're talking about this would be a third in like five or something like that, and they wait a while, and then they spike it.

Can't be doing that. I mean, let's run a play. If we're going to wait that long, run a play. Don't waste the down. You have the free play. You got the free play.

And then on fourth down, Jordan Davis gets home for a sack. Yes. To end practice, actually. Yes. Yeah. That goes to the inefficiency, with which I was speaking.

That's an example of how the first team offense wasn't moving the ball well. Okay. Well, what? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, we're allowed to disagree. Did you think the offense was efficient?

I thought it was fine. I thought it was a practice day, you know? They were trying different stuff. Sure. Exactly. That session in particular, that was not good because that was different. They're trying to get the ball in the end zone. Yeah.

And they were twice unable to do so. I didn't think it was like the overarching takeaway from all of practice. So what was your big takeaway from practice today? It was hot. It was sweaty. I think he would take a shower before the show. Yeah, I'm envious of you. Yeah, I would have loved the shower.

Well, episode's not over yet. So you're... Super chat from Quinn Davis, who says, with the promising play of Jihad Campbell, Smile Mondin, and Jeremiah Trader Jr., do you think if you gave Howie Truth Serum, he would say he regrets paying Zach Bond, knowing his history of asset allocation at the position?

That's a very good question, Zach. And let's talk about this, because there has been a lot of gas about the linebacking group as a whole, not just Jihad Campbell, but Smile Madden, who I do agree, has looked pretty good so far. I'm not so sure that I would loop

Jeremiah Trader Jr. in as like, these guys look amazing, but it's a good group that they have there. Let's answer the question first. Do you think that knowing he was going to get Jehad Campbell how he would have still signed Zach Bond? Yes, I still think he would have signed it.

So no, I don't think he regrets the Zach Bond signing. I think the level at which Zach Bond played last year was unlike anything that he also had at linebacker. And we said this at the time. They didn't have a philosophical change at linebacker, at least from my perspective, although they went on and took one in the first round. I think they viewed Zach Bonn as an exceptional player. And it was worth it to sign him, to sign an exceptional player similar to how they viewed Sequin Barclay. the year before. And so I still think he would have signed him. And the Zach Bond contract is a two-year

deal. You know, I know it's a three-year deal. It's effectively a two-year deal. You were, you were not going to have, you know, you didn't know what NCOBY status was this year. So you weren't going to go, even if you had Jehad Campbell, are you comfortable with Jehad Campbell and Jeremiah Trotter Jr? are comfortable with Jehad Campbell and Smile Mondes? And so no, I think he's very happy with the Zach Bond signing. I think you're probably right and I also think I do think we need to

like pump the brakes a little bit I think Jihad Campbell has been awesome so far this camp and they continue to give them a little bit more but we do have to see it on the field Smile Mondean I think looks the part and has shown some physicality too

but I mean you know to say a fifth round pick who's had a good week of camp before they've even played a preseason game is like definitely a starting caliber player Like I think we got to calm down a little bit. So honestly, when you asked me what your big takeaway from practice was again, I didn't want to say Jehad Campbell because it would have been like the third time in six practices that I mentioned Jehad Campbell.

But Jehad Campbell stands out. Like first off, he plays with the physicality out there. He knocked Ben Zumeren out essentially. Like Vincent, you know, Van Suman left practice. We'll see what happens. He knocked Dallas got her to the ground yesterday. He is, he is all over the field. Right.

And we've talked about the size and the length and the speed. And that's just apparent when you watch him. He looks different. So you can start with Campbell. I think Jeremiah Trotter Jr. has been consistent. He's been better this summer than he was last summer at linebacker. And then Smile Mondin has length out there. Looks solid.

But their two best linebackers last year are not on the field right now, right? I mean, Nkobie Dean. I wasn't there like really early before practice. I know some of the reporters who were there at 9 o'clock said he had a rigorous workout and looked good there. Zach Bond missed his second consecutive practice. So they're down, you know, Bonn and Dean and the linebacker play look good out there. And so that's a good sign that when you're with your, you're basically three, four, five linebackers and even Lance Dixon mixed in, you know, with the ones. And so.

I like a Lance Dixon. Yeah. Yeah, Lance Dixon. Undrafted rookie at Toledo. Yeah, from Penn State before that. big-time recru. And so, and you can read about them on France, undrafted write-up. It was awesome. I think you want to talk about the undrafted guys for a second? Sure. I think surprisingly, considering how many draft picks they have and like what we heard about the depth of this draft class,

I think they've got a pretty good class of undrafted guys. Who's your favorite? Well, you know who my favorite is. Brandon Johnson is my favorite. But Montreal Johnson, the running back from Florida, mixed in a little bit with the ones today. I think AJ Dylan was on. the sidelines. Manchall Johnson looks pretty good. AJ Don't, by the way, it's a back. It's not a neck. So just want to clear that up. Okay, that's good. We talked about Brandon Johnson, who also bumped up a little bit today, got a rep or two with the twos and dime. So that was encouraging to see. Lance Dixon, the linebacker from Toledo. We talked about also got some reps with the ones today. And then I think

Max and Hook is not bad, the safety from Toledo. So I think they got a pretty good undrafted class. I think some of these guys are going to stick around. Credit to the scouting staff. Yeah, and especially in this draft class and they didn't spend a ton of money and this wasn't a bunch of like overslaught guys. And typically when you have a deeper, you know, they had their biggest draft class

in years, you don't think of the undrafted class as, you know, because in theory there's fewer spots. And so if you have a deep draft class and a good undrafted class, it's a good combination. Yeah, tomorrow, on tomorrow's show, after practice,

it's going to be all three of us with Fran Duffy. We're going to do the exercise we do sometimes where, you know, a week plus in the camp, just who has changed our mind about them. most for better or worse. And so that'll be a fun one for tomorrow. But yeah, the linebackers, I mean, listen,

my expectation is they're going to be good. Yes. They were awesome last year. Are they going to be better than they were last year? So, Zach, so this is a good Zach Bond conversation. And we haven't seen Zach the past two days, of course. But we talk about how you got the best possible outcome from Sequin last year. And you got the best possible outcome from Zach Bond last year.

I think there's reason to believe Zach Bond. can be better more than Sequins is going to be better. Like Zach Bond, as we talked about, was in his first year playing the position. And so in theory, you know, he can be more refined there, another year in the scheme. Yeah. Now, certain game-changing type play is there's, they're not sticky. As you've long pointed out to me, you know, the interceptions, things like, you know, force bumbles, things like that.

But I think he's going to be active. He's going to be instinctive. He's going to be physical. All those things are going to carry over. and potentially even improve. Yeah, I mean, this is, this is a famous last words kind of thing, but I cannot imagine Sequin being as good as he was last year. Yes.

It just feels impossible to me. I agree with him. Because he can be, he can be as efficient, but not have, you know, 650 plus runs, right? I mean, he touched the ball nearly 500 times, right? So, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I do think it's more likely for Zach Bonn. And for those, you know, Zach Bond talked about it in, you know, the locker room cleanout day that like he loves the idea of thinking about

this was how good he and the defense were in the first year in the scheme, how much better can we get all of that stuff? Now I think, you know, defense is all about weaklings and so if the secondary is not as good as it was last year then maybe things change a little bit. But yeah, I think it's very reasonable to be excited about the linebackers,

but let's not go too far just yet. But Shahad Campbell is, and not just because of draft pedigree, but because of talent, And also because of the way the Eagles have invested in the position or lack thereof is their most promising young linebacker probably since Michael Kendricks in 2012, right? I mean, he's the highest draft of linebacker they have since Michael Kendricks in 2012. I mean, Kendricks was a second rounder. But, you know, they took Jordan Hicks in the third round in 2015.

They took Davion Taylor in the third round in 2020. But they haven't really had, like, young up-and-coming linebackers other than Jordan Hicks. T.G. Edwards was an undrafted free agent who really didn't kind of hit his stride until year three or so. So I, yeah, I mean, you take Zach Bond, who's their best linebacker since Trotter, Trotter, Sr., and then you take Jihad Campbell, who's their most promising linebacker, and you figure they're going to be on the field together. There's reasons to the end. You have a defensive coordinator who specializes in linebacker play, whose best defenses have come with elite linebackers. There's reason to think this group can be outstanding. You were wondering before the show started off camera about would you take this group or would you take the 2017 group, you know, presuming Jordan Hicks doesn't get injured. Heading into the season, Bradham, Hicks, and Kendricks, where would you land?

Probably Bradham Hicks and Kendricks. Interesting. But Bond's the best one out of all of them. Now, I say that Bratum was so good in 17 and he was, he wasn't as good. Well, you got to think about like when you're making it because because Gratom wasn't thought of as that good. Yeah, exactly. Really until Hicks went down. So, yeah.

So I would probably take this group because of Vaughn. But I think I would too, just because of Vaughn. But if you're kind of taking Dean out of the mix, I'd rather have Kendrickson Trotter. Yeah. So the third. And, you know, Campbell's a wild card here. But what is your expectation for Nicopa Dean, by the way? I mean, he's, look, I'm obviously not a doctor.

I play one on the P.H.O. I'll Eagle Show. but he, he, uh, he's moving. Laugh out of Julia. It's going away present. Right.

Um, so I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I think that he's going to be back sooner than maybe I think, but maybe later than he might want. Um, I would think, uh, well said, let's,

let's say October 1st. Let's, let's put us as, as the over under and I, I'll take the later on that. I put slight, I'm going to make it, so what's the first game after October 1st.

Oh. how about this? Here, this is what I'll say. The Thursday night game is October 10th, I think it is, against the Giants. And then the game after that is at Minnesota. He'll be back October 19th against the Vikings. What week is that? I think, I mean, the real question is, does he start this season on PUP or not? Yes. And I think yes. It doesn't mean he has to miss at least. Yeah. They moved it from six to four. Is that right? Yeah, so at least four. Yeah. So the Minnesota game's week seven. I would be surprised if he's ready that early. The buy week's week nine. So maybe week 10 against Green Bay coming off the buy? Feels a little bit more right to me.

Okay. And how do you think he'd get like, you know, this is not a problem to solve. They've got to wait and see what it seems like. But if Bonn Campbell are cooking, like is Nicolauby Dien going to have a role? I don't see it. Like I think that's a, you worry about that when you get there. Yeah, that's, I know.

that shield likes to say when coaches say it's a good problem to have, it's not a good problem. You know, that's a good problem to have is when Jahad Campbell's that good that the guy coming back from injury, who was a big time starter for you last year, doesn't really have a spot on the field. Okay.

Although, and we can talk about this after the break, but seeing Jehad Campbell get a snap on an outside back or maybe you think that they can find a certain package. Yeah, no, yeah, he was working a little bit more as an edge guy. today. Now, I think the other two edges were on the field, but he was just lined up on the lining scrimmage. But, yeah, that's

certainly, that's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, quick break. On the other side, we will play a little clip of Brandon Graham on the exciting mics this week, fun episode with BG, and then we'll come back and talk some more

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All right. The exciting mics had on the legend himself, Brandon Graham, which you can watch and listen to today. Here's a little clip. Here's a little taste of what is in there. You got a favorite player or team that you'd like to talk trash to last. Dallas, man. I used to talk so much against them because you just developed that because they're fans, because they fans, man, when they win, I'm telling you, they fans come out of nowhere.

All I remember one time we lost to them and we was both good and we ended up losing to them. It was a good game. And all I get is L, L, under all my stuff, all these fans spamming me, spamming my Instagram. saying, oh, L, how about that? How about this? And ever since then, boy, they've been the top of my list. So everybody can get it in Dallas, and I'm going to keep saying it. I love it.

Even the fans. I love it. Thank you actually be a part of it now. You can say whatever you want. Yeah, I ain't going to go crazy, though. I ain't going to go crazy because I don't want nobody come looking for me. But I do, I am going to talk my stuff because that first game, man, I can already envision it. Coming out both trophies, yeah, what up?

We're walking out together. Then we got the banner coming down. Oh, man. You know, I enjoy that conversation with Brandon Graham so much. I do find myself wondering, is there anywhere that I can read something that he's written? Yes, well, first off, he has a great children's book out that I read to my son, so make sure you check that.

But you can also, I genuinely appreciate this. What am I going to do? Not bring it up? On September 23rd, Leap Year is coming out. And Brandon Graham wrote the forward for Leap Year. I'm honored that Brandon lent his words and his name to it. And so eager to share that with the world on September 23rd. All right.

Yes. Good stuff. No, I mean, you've got to get your plugs in now. Maybe I could discuss the book on the show. That'd be nice. I don't think so. Okay. You know.

All right. Anyways, let's keep going here. Okay, going through my notes here. You know, every single day, it's a new guy, but it was back to an Andori Jackson day, a little bit more reps. By the way, the, I mean, the Eli-Ricks thing, you didn't make anything of that?

Yeah, I mean, I think you were on, I don't think he was peeing, but maybe he had to tie his shoe or something like that, right? Maybe there was something going on that he wasn't able to take the snap. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe they don't like, well, no,

I thought maybe they liked Ricks better in like Red Zone or in hurry up. I don't think that would make any sense. But then when they came back and again, ones on ones, and it was Adory Jackson. So something odd. But good for Eli Ricks, who I think is otherwise underwhelmed a little bit this summer, but good for him.

I was talking, you know, when you got the national people coming to town, they've got their questions for you. And someone asked about Kili Ringo. And I think the thing, and the question was like, so I hear Kili Ringo has disappointed or he hasn't been very good. And I don't think that's true. I just think that from year one to year two, Keeley took a little bit of a leap. He looked better in year two than he didn't in year one. You were hoping there was going to be a similar leap.

I think he looks pretty similar to how he looked last summer. And he made two very good plays today on balls down the field. Yeah, one to Johnny Wilson. One to Johnny Wilson in that competitive period from Tanner McKee. and then one from with Darius Cooper had to like, it was almost an interception. Cooper had to make a nice play breaking up the interception. But, you know, Keeley has the physical tools to run down the field

and cover guys downfield. I think he's been pretty good. I think he's been fine. But he hasn't like, he hasn't taken a leap. And maybe that's okay. So I asked you before camp if even par would get him the job. And I think has he been even par? Has you been?

I think that's right. I think he has been even par. Okay. Or, you know, somewhere between par and bogey. Okay. I do know that term. So yeah, he's probably been closer to bogey than par, I would say. Your mind, yeah.

But I still expect him to be the starter on September 4th. He's shooting an 80. What's even par? What's? 70, 72. Okay. Yeah, so shooting in 80. Okay.

Yeah. He's been okay. Yeah. What about Adorea Jackson? So I defer to Vic Fangio here. I thought Adore two practices ago looked good. I didn't think he was as good the last practice. So I don't know if Adore has done enough to win the job,

but four or six practices, Adore's been the first one up, right? And so it hasn't been an even, you know, one day on, one day off. I don't know what goes into the rotation. Okay, let's talk, take a second to get to the details of stuff, injury-wise. On the positive front, this was the first day that we've seen Jill and Carter. Yep.

Participating in full 11-on-11, so that's good. He's getting healthy. Only two guys added to the injury report, right? Yeah, let me pull this up here. So the injury report, Zach Bond, we know with the back. Added to it was E.J. Jenkins with a hamstring and Terrace Marshall with a knee. Drew McCuba remains. Teres Marshall going Beanie today.

You know, in that heat. Real football guy stuff. Yeah, well, the heat's a mindset, right? Yeah, I don't think I agree with that. That's what Vick said. You don't think so? You don't think it's all relative, right? No, I think it was hot.

It was very humid. Sure, but if you were, have you been, is everyone's phone buzz? Okay. Oh, yeah, I got the flood alert. Yeah, we got a flood alert. Okay. Sorry about that.

I felt the phone buzzing and I didn't know something was wrong. I didn't know something was wrong. So, so, yeah, so I, it was hot out there, but I mean, it has been hotter. I thought two days ago was hotter. Yeah, it was hotter. Yeah, it was hotter. This was humid. Yeah.

That is true. That is true. This one was, I didn't know if it was the material on my shirt or if it was the humidity. But yeah, this one. Yeah, I mean, well, it was the, it was the predecessor to. to the flash flood warning. Exactly. So Devante Smith continues to be sidelined with a back injury.

I mentioned Drew McCoup at the shoulder. Then Nolan Smith's still sidelined with the concussion. Limited Jihad Campbell. Although it doesn't look like he's limited out there. Yeah. John Carter, still not taking every snap, but taking more.

AJ Dillon with the back injury and then Cam Jurgan's back injury as well. I'm surprised Lennon Dickerson wasn't listed on there because he seemed limited today. They did a lot of little rotating with the first team offensive line where it was Cam Juergens and then Brett Tooth in Furlin and Dickerson at left guard and then at one point it was Brett Tooth

at center and Matt Pryor at left guard and I think the prior thing is interesting to me because he also got some reps with the two at right tackle. Right now he feels like he is the poll position for like your game day backup at four positions. I would agree. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I think that's part of the appeal

of having him here. I mean, you heard Jeff, Stoutland said the other day, he's part of the family, right? So, I mean, they clearly brought him back for a reason. Kendall Lamb is more of the natural left tackle, but if you look at the versatility, that's what Pryor presents. I think they should call him Matt Pryor. When he was here before, he was Matt Pryor.

Now, let's live in the Pryor. Let's be Matt Pryor. That is a bow joke. I like that. Why not? Yeah, that is a bow joke. That's a good one. Yeah.

is it coming down pretty hard out there the lightning nice i believe there was an earthquake in california today fireworks yeah i was i was up at like two in the morning the other night and um when i was i was reading all the tsunami coverage that was pretty intense too what were you doing up at two a m thinking i'd be honest with you thinking um yeah my wife would i i don't feel bad saying that she would say, stop thinking so much. Like, just turn your mind off. And if anyone has any advice for how to do that, I'm eager to learn. Julia? I wish I knew. Do you have any substances that maybe he could borrow? Yeah. Does that work? Okay. For how long is it like, uh, okay. If you too have been thinking about Zach's impending departure and would like to share your thoughts, I don't need to belabor that.

please send them to Bo at all-P-H-L-Y.com. The inbox is filling up with people saying very nice things about you, Zach. We want to be able to read some of those at the Ospreys next Wednesday night. And I believe today's tomorrow morning is when we close the tickets for the Ospreys. So if you want to get a chance to go see Zach, last chance. Let's do it. Well, and you can see Bo and Fran and Julia. I mean, we got a lot of, we got lots of fun stuff in store.

It's going to be worth your while, no doubt about it. But, you know, if you just want to get some eyes on Zach. I did say I talked my first day here, how I'm eager to do live shows. And I'll say, well, no, I did the running term. Whoa, that was an intense lightning bolt there. Yeah, baby. This might be all our last shows. You have angered the gods, Zach.

We all might be doing our last show. It's done. I see friends in the chat. Frayne will remember I was I was live on the Eagles, Eagles live when we had the East Coast earthquake like, you know, 10 years ago or whatever. And you can see the like the set shaking around me. I actually think I did a pretty good job closing the show. I don't know. I'm like, all right, we're going to end this.

We'll see you guys later. I have no doubt you did. Best host in the city. Well, not back then. You've developed into that. Yeah. But yeah. So I'm excited to see, to see everybody.

everybody in person, but I really enjoyed those Reading Terminal shows. Yeah. And so, well, next year I'm going to stop by and say hello to everybody there. I mean, we'll have to get security. Not persona non grata. I mean, that's what you're making us feel like. Okay. All right. We talked about the UDFAs.

We talked about Jalen Carter. We talked about Jalen Hertz. We talked about Jordan Davis. We talked about Kili Ringo. We have not yet talked about Cameron Lattu. Mm-hmm. Cameron Lattu had a nice catch downfield. He beat Lance Dixon.

I believe it was. He was wide open. So Cameron Lato in that competition for the depth, tight end spot, has draft pedigree, third rounder out of Alabama, was with, was drafted by San Francisco, was on Cleveland's practice squad. but he yeah it's the first time he's really kind of shown up this summer

yeah I agree with that so there were three periods of that that same situation when it was ball in 25 yard line down eight 48 seconds left no timeouts got a score we told you about the two ones with the ones where the first session

ends with an interception on the first play to Eli Ricks and then the second one ends with the Jordan Davis sack there was also one with the two's. So you've got Tanner McKee going up against the second team defense. And this was one where it reminded me of talking to Tanner McKee about his first game last year. And his big takeaway was not like getting to play with the starters. It was getting to throw to AJ Brown. Like you think about that first touchdown path. It was like he just threw it up to AJ Brown. He knew what to do. And Tanner McKee made three really good throws. One of them was to Elijah Cooks, which would have been a

circus catch, but it would have been a touchdown down the right side line. And he had it in his hands. And then I think Tyree Castro Fields was able to pry it loose as Cooks was going to the ground. Then he throws one up to Johnny Wilson and Keeley Ringo breaks it up. And then he's scrambling right and throws it to Johnny Wilson in the back of the end zone. Like the whole theory of Johnny Wilson is there are going to be times where he is the only guy who can get this ball. He's this tall. It was a perfect throw there. And he still was unable to come down with it. And so, you know, I'm in the tank for Tanner McKee. But like if you think about those throws being made to players of AJ Brown's caliber, which there are not many, but still, you know, a starting caliber wide receiver, I think it might have looked a little bit different on those.

Yeah, I agree with you. And, you know, Johnny Wilson hasn't done enough this summer. You know, he was like a standout relatively speaking last summer. And I don't know if he's taking that next step this year. I mean, Elijah Cooks has made more plays than he has. Yeah. Although Cooks didn't bring that ball down. Yeah, but he looked like a banged up.

It was like, I mean, that would have been a crazy catch for him to have made. It was like, I'm not so sure that some of the other receivers would have even been in that position. True, true. But he looked a little banged up afterwards. Do you think that Johnny Wilson makes this team? I still think he makes the team. Yeah. I mean, then look, there's something different.

He's not, you know. Exactly. But. And there's a lot of time now, but there's a lot of time between now and, you know, the 53-man cut down. But I do think you're right. It would have been, you would have hoped to see that year one to year two. Speaking of the depth-wide receivers, they had a little gadget play for a Naya Smith today. I noticed that, yeah.

So just a different way to use an IAS. And that one with the ones, we should say. Yes. I mean, I think it's a wasted snap, frankly, but. Yeah. Like you mentioned at the top of the show, Jahan Dotson, you know, did a good job there.

Yeah, he was more, this was his most active day, I think. Yeah. And so you're, you like seeing that, especially in the context of Devante not being out there. Because, because we said, you know,

I brought up the point against Tampa Bay and against New Orleans last year. Jehan didn't step up when he needed to. And I thought you saw that. today in terms of just being more active, Jaylen going to him. So I said at the top they were inefficient, but no, you're right.

If you're kind of looking for particular things, him moving, Jaylon spreading the ball around and Jahan making plays stands out. Dallas Goddard had a nice grab. He also dropped the ball, but, you know, he made a good contest to catch as well.

Okay. Take a break. Hopefully we're still here by the time we come back, but let's hear from our sponsors. I'm going to tell you about our friends at Righteous Felon. No, I'm not. That's his job.

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AJ Brown here. Okay. Zach. And this is not actual beef between the two of those guys, but we've talked about the evolution of those matchups. And Quinnianne Mitchell spoke a little bit today about how he's not really doing a lot of chirping at a j brown anymore it's more just like line up and go with these two guys yeah which could be a sign of like quinyon um you know let's his play do the talking now right uh like last year he kind of had to prove that he's at that level and this year he's he's he's he's already there um but yeah it's it's a good point and quignan's been the only one who's been able to stay with a j this summer a jay got him once today a little dig over the middle of the field, but I mean, yeah.

And Quinnian was following him all over the field, both sides. Queenie and Mitchell has been so good. And to see these two guys work against each other has probably been the highlight of camp so far. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it's telling me because, you know, we were on, I think we can say that now. It's out on the NFL Dail. Yeah. Yeah, it was a fun time with Greg Rosenthal and Jordan Rodriguez.

Do the grades. And absolutely, I agree there. And you mentioned that like Quinyan can turn into like an all pro-caliper player, like a top of the league corner this year. And that's within the realm of possibility because when you see the way he covers A.J. Brown, if you can do this against A.J. Brown, then, you know, most weeks, you're going to be able to do this against the receiver you face. So it's a good sign for him.

It was also interesting hearing him after practice talk about ball skills and kind of what he's doing behind the scenes. Oh yeah, that was interesting. Yeah. So there's, and I apologize if I'm butchering the story here, but there's like a red, yellow and green, there are red yellow and green lights on a screen that he has to, that gets the spot. Is that how you interpret it? I think there were two different things. Okay. One is something where there's two screens and he has to identify something.

Okay. And then there's a different thing where I don't know if there are three balls in the air. and they yell a color and he has to catch that color. Okay, that makes sense. So like it's just, you know, to work on the margins of his hand eye. Yeah. Yeah.

And the ball skills were like the only thing, I don't want to say the only thing that was lacking last year, but it needed to be improved. You know, his first interception didn't come until the playoffs. And there were interceptable passes during the season. And as we said on the show two days ago, the interception he made on Monday is a play that Vic Fan just said he wouldn't have made last year.

I want to look at the schedule for the Eagles here and think about do you think Quinion Mitchell follows somebody? Okay. So they start with the Cowboys. C.D. Lamb and George Pickens. Is he going to follow C.D. Lamb? No, because the amount of times C.D. Lamb spends inside.

Okay. Next up is the Chiefs. Is he going to follow Xavier Worthy, the greatest player who's ever lived? No. No. They've received rice too there. So, no, I don't think so.

Pukanakua and Devante Adams. Is he going to follow Pukina Kua? Good question. No. What do you think? Well, he also spends some time inside. Exactly. With those two, I don't know if you need him on one of the two.

Tampa Bay, is you going to follow Mike Evans? I'll say yes. It feels like one, yeah. Sure. I think I agree with that. Denver Broncos is you going to follow Marvin Mims or Portland Sutton? Probably Cortland Sutton. Yeah, probably.

Yeah. Is you going to follow Malik neighbors? Yes. Definitely. Yes. That is one where these guys are going to be going up against each other a long time. Justin Jefferson? I can see that.

It's really coming down. It is really coming down out there. We had a windy one in Studio A that one time. Yeah. Are you nervous? You seem a little bit thrown off. Oh, but my son gets like worried. I think about my son.

I'm thinking about my son. Okay. Here's your second hand concerned. Yeah, I mean, he's fine. Or maybe he's getting those genes from you. Maybe so. Maybe so, yeah. You're throwing him under the bus.

I'm not worried about the rain or the thunder. Yeah. Okay. Are you a, do you like a thunderstorm? I like to sleep in a thunderstorm. Yeah, people like that. People like putting on the like the thunder music as background music. Okay.

Thunder music Is that what Yeah like a thought You know you You go on to YouTube Or Spotify or Apple music Yeah that's a thing Yeah

You put on Put on rainstorm And it helps It helps put you to sleep Yeah Yeah That's kind of what this is like I

I've lived in a house A few years ago Every time it rained The roof leaked Oh I remember that for you Yeah So every time it rained I get like PTSD from that

Okay All right I don't need to take you through the whole schedule. Yeah. I think we've done enough there. What else you got? So we mentioned before we came on, Shandedric Pal. Yeah, a nice little run.

Yeah. Why can't for him so far, but he broke one through and then cut it to the outside. And you said, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You don't know if in the game he would have gotten to the outside there. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure, but it was a good training camp round from him. Yeah, it was the best run we've seen. No doubt about it. And then as, as we said, Montreal Johnson,

kind of sneaked in with the ones. So it shows kind of where he is. Although they don't really have a lot of running backs, but he's someone who's caught some attention here. I think so. Yeah. You mentioned the Jordan Davis-Sack. J-Ox Hunt got through one point as well.

So those were a few things in my notes. How do you feel about the Phillies moves? Oh, I love it. You do. Yeah. I mean, especially when you see what the Padres gave up for ICE and Miller. Yeah. You know, that's a crazy deal.

Get Duran three years of team control. I mean, Mick Abel, who I liked the way he's pitching this year, but going into the year, he wasn't like, you know, he didn't have the prospect hype that he had now. And then, I mean, when you have to give up a 19-year-old catcher, I'm okay with that. Harry Bader. Well, then they got Harrison Bader today. Yeah. Yeah.

A New Yorker. He went to Florida. What? Okay. I mean, he's playing well this year, you know. You know, they clearly wanted to keep Crawford and Aiden Miller. Andrew Payner was untouchable, obviously. So I like the move.

By the way, make sure you read Jim Salisbury on all-PHly.com. He has a good column last night on the Duran. And so your last chance to become a diehard for $36 for the year. Get it in now. But yeah, but maybe later you'll get to read about Harry Bader. but when you consider the, you know, what the lack of, well, I can say lack of closers out there, but, you know, you lose the option in Cleveland with the suspension of class. So at that point, you're looking at Duran, you're looking at Heisley.

Yeah, Mason Miller. So at that point, I like Duran the most of all of them. And then you didn't have to give up Painter. You didn't have to give up Crawford. you didn't have to give up Miller. I think a real good, a real good night from Nebraska. Okay.

Yeah, what'd you think of it? Everything you thought. Okay. And some interesting moves today. The Mason Miller move, the Shane Bieber move. Curious, you know,

now... Ames. Yeah, Toronto's got a legit, six-man rotation if Eric Lauer continues to pitch this way. So, um,

they're playing really well. I mean, Blue Jays, Brewers, there's some good, good teams right now. Amen, brother. I can keep talking baseball if you want.

Or I can talk to training camp practice today or anything else in mind. Let me think here. Oh, so we spoke to Michael Clay. We did. Didn't really give much of an answer on the long snapper change. No, but he said Charlie Hewlett's got a big body. Yes, he does. Yeah.

And so Avery Williams, he said Cooper the Gene's probably not going to return this. year, but, you know, that, that option's always there. He said, well, we'll see in the regular season. Cooper the Gene and Avery Williams were both returning during the drill today. Aver Williams hadn't been kind of catching returns because they already know how he can return. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, punt returns because they've been using him as the personal protector, which is something that he has a lot of skills at as well. You're expecting Aver Williams to be on the team?

Right now, I would say no. I mean, they like him beyond the stuff that Nick said. Like the fact that they're like thinking of him as the personal protector, it feels like they have in their mind a designated special team spot for him. But special teams only if you're going to use a spot for that, okay. But I haven't seen anything from him on offense so far. Have you? No, not on offense.

I mean, I think he's here for special teams despite what Nick said. Yeah. And I haven't been tracking Jake Elliott's kicks. I haven't seen like misses. No. In a notable way. I'm not worried about Jake Elliott going. into the season.

Meaning there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then there's the new kickoff rule, right? He said they haven't decided what they're going to do. That's what that's what camp is for. Yeah.

And tonight. Yes. And what is the new kickoff role? The new kickoff rule is the landing spot, right? Yeah. The touchback is now the 35. Yes. Yeah.

So you're incentivized to have it fall in the landing zone to be returned. Right. Yeah. Let me see here. So, yeah, the kickoff. No, so the, I'm pulling this up here, sorry. That's okay.

Are you going to be watching tonight? No, probably not. No? I might, if I'm working, put it on in the background. So the NFL owners approved the significant change of league's kickoff rule will authorize, okay. So the touchback on kickoffs will be marked

at the 35-yard line in the 2020. season. A move that league officials and specials from Kevin Sefer from ESPN that league officials and special teams

coaches say will prompt a significant increase in the return rate. Okay? So yeah, so it moves up. The league had a return rate

of 32.8% last year and they are projecting the return rate this year to be between 70 and 75%. So that's a big jump. Those are

numbers that are different. AJ Dillon, how would you feel about tackling a 240-pound AJ Dillon? Not good. That's what Michael Clay asked you. And I said, not good. I mean, he didn't ask me specifically. He asked the group at large. But the thing is he breaks the first tackle,

but he doesn't have the long speed to bust it. Yes. Right? Yeah. But AJ Dillon has been. I don't think A.J. Dillon is going to be the primary kickoff for Turner. I do not think so either. Who do you think it's going to be?

Well, I guess, every Williams. That's who I think as well. Okay. Wow. Francis is abnormally excited about the Hall of Fame game tonight. Proud Dad moment. I mean, I hope you guys are going to be playing some Pokemon during that game. Chargers Lions.

Chargers Lions. You see, Trey Lance tonight. I believe he's starting for the Chargers. Okay. Yeah. You know who else is on the Chargers? I know a lot of people on the Chargers, but who are you asking about? I spend a lot of time in Montreal,

and that's not how people in Montreal speak. That's how Benjamin St. Juice talks. That's how he speaks? Yeah. He speaks like that. Wait, well, ho-ha, jean, Benjamin de Saint-Jouste. I don't believe he speaks that way either. But then the Detroit Lions.

Coyote Awashika. Coyote, Owashika. Hope I get in tonight, right? You think they risk playing coyote in this game? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Have you been to Canton, Ohio? Never.

Never. Have you? I have, but not for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Okay. I've been to Canton, Ohio, to see LeBron James play high school basketball against my brother's team. And unfortunately, the video got to go over. You have a good memory, exactly. Ballet racetal.

But I was videotaping that whole thing. It's the first time I saw the bro. on play. Yeah, so I was in Canton, Ohio. I remember going to Shua's Steakhouse. I thought it was like so cool being at Shores Steakhouse. But yeah, that was, that was Canton, Ohio. I've always wanted to go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Hopefully one day I'm able to get to go. But also Eric Allen getting inducted into the Pro Football Hall fame. So I defer to the great Ruben Frank who talks about him as like one of the great Eagles. And I think given the. way that Troy Vincent acted this off season, you know, Eric Allen has gone even ahead of Troy Vincent in the Eagles corners. I think he was, he was better than Troy Vincent going into the I know, but there's even more of the separation. Okay. Well, Cueni Ann Mitchell will be on that list at some point. It's always tough. Somebody was asking Quignan about if he had any thoughts on Eric

Allen today. You know, just a tough spot to put him in. Exactly. Yes. You didn't watch him play, but he knows he's one of the greats. Yeah. I don't know. I think Quiney Mitchell could be the best corner, could end up being the best corner I've covered. Better than Cooper the Gene. Could be.

Yeah. Do you think Quingon's envious to the Cooper hype? Maybe. I don't know. What do you think? I asked you. I said, I don't know. I don't think Quinyon cares.

I don't think Quigionion is like, I don't think he's following it. Yeah. But I'm sure he knows Cooper's popular. I mean, Cooper has a podcast. Quigionan was on it. Yeah. That right over there. Yeah.

Yeah. It was good show. You got that direction right. Good job. Yeah. I wasn't there for that episode, but I watched it and listened to it. Yeah. Yeah.

So. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What else you have? I have not listened to the new publicatory episode yet. We got to do that.

There's more NFLPA. Oh, okay. Cicanery. It's right. You're out. I'm a report out. Is it not up your alley? Isn't it?

Don't you? Yeah. Don't you find it. fascinating as covering the NFL? I do, yes. I feel like, yeah. I mean, we, Milana and Lane Johnson talked about it at the beginning of camp about what a crap show the NFLPA has been.

But, yeah, I mean, they continue to get dominated. There's a, they need Bryce Harper. Yeah, they do. I mean, they need Marvin Miller is what they need. Good reference there, yeah. And they're, I mean, it's not, it's not looking good. I mean, do you think there should be guaranteed contracts in the NFL?

I don't know if I have thought enough about what I think the solution would be, should be, but I do know that it is very unfortunate that the sport that is the most popular sport in the country that makes the most money also has the players who put their lives and livelihood on the line the most and they have the weakest union. I think that sucks. And why do you think that is? I don't know. I don't have a solution for you here.

I just want to think this is fair. Yeah, I mean, I... Really unfortunate. I think the biggest difference between the NFL and the other sports is like, well, the size of the roster, so the size of the union, number one. But also like the length of the careers of the players, I don't have a good solution either. I do agree they need to have a stronger union. but, you know, I certainly hope there's no work stoppages in the NFL because our livelihood depends on the NFL playing. So you hope they get railroaded and sign a deal?

I am not saying I hope they get railroad. I hope like in most negotiations, they reach good compromise. Okay. I think we have another super chat. Idiot sandwich. Is he believing to be Lloyd Howell's PR rep? No. No.

But you will take that business lunch, you've offered? No. Okay. I will not. Yeah, I would not go to a business lunch there. Yeah, I would. I think that'd be, I, yeah, no, that's when I would decline to attend. Okay.

Good for you. Yeah. What if it was, what if it was not a business lunch, but. reporting? I mean, it's a hypothetical that's hard to answer. I think like, yeah, no, I mean, I would have to, there, look, if you're reporting, maybe, yeah, if you're reporting. That's where the source is.

You got to go where the news is. That's true. That's true. Yeah. So, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I wouldn't rule that out. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't roll that out. Doing your job.

Doing my job. Yes. Hopefully expensing it. I would not. You can't explain that. I would not expense that. That's an easy way to get fired. Yeah.

Which I'm not trying to do. Okay. All right, Zach. In a couple seconds, we're going to be heading to your favorite part of the program, of course. That is overtime. Yeah, what do you got?

You're thinking of something. No, not really. We brushed over the Jordan Davis having a good day. Yes. As a pass rusher today, was that more you thought because Lenin Dickerson wasn't in? At left guard, or do you still feel a little bit like he can do some real damage? Yeah, I do feel he can be better.

He said that they're expecting him to rush to quarterback more this year. I think that what I need to see from him is more technique. And I haven't watched the trenches enough to tell me how his technique is. But as I said on last week's show, I think the conditioning is only a part of this. I think the technique is a big part of this. Yeah. This is a little bit like the linebackers. It's all positive development.

It's really nice to see. We've got to see it on the field. Yep. So, great. Okay. All right. Anything else? No.

This was such a stilted show. You thought it was stilted? A little bit. We'll do better tomorrow. That's the good thing. I hope. I expect us to be better tomorrow. The countdown is on.

I'm just trying to do the best job can today and then the best job I can tomorrow. And that's my only focus. And the day after that, and then the day after that, and then the day after that, and then the day after that, and then the day after that, and then the day after that, and then not anymore. My foot, you know, it's, it's if you're running a marathon, Beau, you're not thinking about mile 22, 2 or 23, 24, 25, 20s, you're thinking about the mile you're on. You're not thinking about Matt Pryor. You're thinking about that. Yeah, Matt, present.

There you go. Way to bring it all. That's why you're the best host in the city. So honestly, yeah, I don't want to get emotional melancholy. I will simply say I'm focused on doing the best job I can right now. Okay. Julia, how are you doing? How's it looking out there?

It feels like it's calmed down a little bit now. Good. Fun. Exciting stuff. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.HL White Eagles podcast. Tomorrow, another Eagles practice. I'm expecting them to be in pads tomorrow.

They got the day off on Saturday. So hopefully we get a lot of good action there. and we're going to take a bit of a step back also and talk who has moved our opinion of them the most for positive or negative on tomorrow's show with Zach Berman and Fran Duffy. Should be a lot of fun. We'll talk to you then. And as always, we love you.