PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Eagles Training Camp: Jalen Carter Gets PAID, Where All Position Battles Stand | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Major Jalen Carter news ahead of Eagles players reporting for training camp with the first practice set for Wednesday morning. Bo Wulf and EJ Smith break down the highest paid defensive tackles' extension and discuss where each position battle stands before the action begins, ranging from Tanner McKee and Andy Dalton at backup quarterback to Marcus Epps vs. Michael Carter II at safety. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the PHY Eagles podcast on a Tuesday afternoon, the final day of the summer, because training camp starts tomorrow, live from the Expendity Lounge and presented by Ashley, Bowulf, and E.J. Smith. Now, if you missed it, we have an emergency podcast that is in your feed somewhere. Fran Duffy joined us to talk about the big news later in the show today. EJ, we're going to play little turkeys to training camp, put some turkey wagers on the position battles across the roster. But let's begin this show, of course, talking again about the big news from Howie Roseman. No more wondering whether Jalen Carter is going to be on the field when camp starts tomorrow. He has been paid. Yeah, a four-year deal worth up to 160 million.

152 million is a base value. It's $106 million guaranteed, which my understanding is that was the number that took the longest to figure out. You know, that was the number that they were far apart on in the spring. But ultimately, I think that this is a deal that makes sense for the Eagles. I think it's a deal that makes sense for Jalen Carter. You know, it makes him the highest paid defensive tackle in the NFL in terms of new money, in terms of guaranteed money.

And it's a deal that reflects the ability that he has and the ability that he has to be a building block in a cornerstone for this defense for years to come. And just in the money minutia of it all, right? He's setting the market in terms of the total guarantees. The average, if you take it from just the new money, it's setting a record, but obviously this extension doesn't begin until 2028. 2028, right? Because he has the fifth year option.

This year's salary is the same. Yeah. And then next year is the fifth year option is basically what they're pricing in, but they're able to move the money around a little bit. Yeah, there's all this minutia. It's, as you said before the show, it's usually marketing whatever you see initially. And that's why some of the financial analysis on this deal,

like I would like to see what it looks like when it all comes out. That's not to be skeptical about the numbers that are out there now. I think that those numbers are accurate. But there's always like the second beat where it's like, this is what its cap hits look like and this is how the guarantees work. So for that reason, like my analysis today is mostly that, it's a win. If you're an Eagles fan, you feel good about the fact that Jalen Carter is, you know, from what I understand, like he looks great coming into training camp. They feel good about where he's

at and his ability to continue to rise to being the type of field tilting, game tilting, world tilting, maybe even you would say, player that he can be. We saw it in 2024. I think he's a cornerstone for this team. I think that's why they got this deal done. Yeah, I think that we and like the fan base and the larger NFL world can sort of forget. how good Jalen Carter is at his best just because he played through those injured shoulders last year, only played 11 games, only had three sacks. At his best, he is in the conversation

for best defensive players in the league. Now, it's not like the Eagles got a discount here necessarily based on what was a relatively down year for him last year, but he's only 25 years old. There is every reason to believe that if nothing goes wrong off the field, he is going to be one of the best players in the NFL or the foreseeable future. Yeah, you can't, it's like, we shouldn't forget the gravity that he has,

even when he's not at his best, the consistent, the consistency with which offensive lines shift the protection his way. Like, even if he isn't his 100% peak of his power itself, you still have to account for him on every play. And when he is the peak of his powers, it doesn't matter if you account for him. He can still completely wreck a game. So I understand why the Eagles did this.

Again, I think, you know, it wasn't a straightforward deal. you look at the history of them extending their homegrown, drafted players. It's usually a deal that they can get down in March or April. I think this was a little bit more of a complicated negotiation, but one that ultimately still ended up here because, you know, this is another thing I said on the emergency pod, but it's like this is why the Eagles don't have these situations arise where you're talking about a player holding in or holding out.

It's because they get their business done efficiently and effectively in these scenarios. And I think this one is a tougher one. I think some teams would have struggled with it, But like you said, Howie Rosen with the deadline, he's like, we need to hit this deadline. So I think it makes a lot of sense. You listen, the Eagles are not immune to having locker room drama necessarily. And there's no reason, you know, a lot of successful teams have locker room drama. So it's not like one precludes the other.

But I did kind of think that Howie Roseman was going to feel like once he paid Jordan Davis, he had to pay Jalen Carter. Yeah. because it really would be an awkward situation in that room, these guys who are buddies who played together, and Jordan Davis is still a part-time player. Yeah. And he's getting rewarded, whereas they're always rolling protection to Jalen Carter.

He's the guy who when he is on the field is playing 85 to 95% of the snaps. You can't really look at him in the face and be like, well, we're going to reward him but not reward you. Especially because of how many snaps Jalen Carter has played, right? Right. You know, like the fact that he had two shoulder injuries last year, that's reflective in how much he played in the 2024 season and the toughness that he had to play through it last year.

Now, this is something that is going to be on my radar is how much Vic rides those guys. We know that it is counter to the way that Harry Roseman wants his defensive line to be rotated. And in the past, you know, especially after 2024, I asked him if, like, Vic has changed, his opinion about that a little bit. And he said, not really that he thinks that he's okay with this because those guys are so young. And so now, I mean, Jalen Carter is still young,

but now Jalen Carter is a prized investment for the Eagles, a multi-year investment that they are on the hook for. So I am curious if Howie is going to want Vic to play Jalen Carter, it's kind of intuitive because you want to get your money's worth. Yeah.

But I actually think that he might want him to play a little bit less now. Yeah, I don't know. I think if I'm Vic Fangio in this argument, I'm saying an 80% like stamina of Jaylon Carter. Vic doesn't need to worry about 2028. We saw in 2024 like a 60% of his like,

you know, stamina version of Jalen Carter. If he played the whole game and he's wearing down, he's still better than whoever you're going to bring in. I mean, Moro Joe is a great player. He's the exception. But, you know, if you're talking, you know, Gabe Hall or Byron Young or somebody, like I'd rather have Jalen Carter on the field.

Well, of course you would, but you also, you know, he was 24 years old last year and he had two bummed shoulders. Was that a result of the fact that he played 95% of the snaps the year before that? And they played deep into February. Like I think I know Howie well enough to know that he's going to want Jailen Carter to play a little bit less now. Yeah, I think that this is a good window into what this argument would look like between Vic and Howie. Because Vic is going to be like, get out of here with that. I don't care what Jalen Carter looks like.

In 2031, I'm going to be on the golf course by that. Right. So, yeah, it's an interesting push pull. And Jalen Carter, want to be out there for the record. And what do you think the vantage point for Morrow Ojima is right now? Probably just, yeah, but say looking at mansions and all 31 other cities that have NFL franchises. Boy is, you know, he's on Zillow looking at Phoenix real estate or like, what's the Las Vegas real estate going to be like?

You know, he probably would be looking at like Miami. It's close to Brazil, which is where his girlfriend's from. So, yeah, he's probably sitting there like, oh, are they still together? What's that? As a girlfriend as of, I don't know it, months ago. They had pictures. They posted pictures recently. Yeah.

You know, Morrow's a big fan of the Brazilian culture. So I feel like, yeah, he's going to be looking at different landing spots. Atlanta, Miami's got a lot of cap space. The Jets, I don't know. Don't go to the Jets, Mora. Yeah. Atlanta would be fun. Yeah.

I think Miami is high on his. list. You know, yesterday, and by the way, most people, if I was doing a podcast with them, they probably would have brought up at some point. Like, yesterday EJ said that this was going to happen. You know, you would give me the hat tip. You'd give me the little teamy up. But on this show, I know I got to do that myself. Yeah, I said yesterday, toward the end of the show, we were talking about Carter. And I said, I think if it happens, if they're going to get a deal done, it'll happen soon. I said, I think it'll happen by the end of the week. And you were like really surprised by that. Maybe I'll have to run the tape. I don't remember that. Maybe I'll have to

on the tape. It also sounds pretty equivocating. You don't really... Well, you know, you didn't say, like, I think it gets... You know, if you didn't town the table and say, this is going to happen before camp starts. See, you're trying to reframe my argument. I'm not saying I knew this was going to happen. I said, you know? If this does happen, it could happen in the next couple months. That's a little bit. I called it. That's not how I sound. Is that pedantic, Ray? waiting for my appreciation. See, again, that's what I'm saying.

If I was on this, if I was on the show with a gracious host, the Eagles could make a move in the next couple months. What do you think? If I was on here with a gracious host, they might have said, you know, this is why I got to listen to the podcast. Wow. You're going to listen to the show. As E.J. Smith said,

Helen Roseman could be up to something in the next couple months. Court jester says I gave a 14-day window. Like I said, I'm not saying I pinpointed it, but, you know, I knew where the winds were shifting. Okay. Yeah, I think this is, I think this is good news for Eagles fans. I think it's good news for the team.

Happy for Jalen Carter. And this is, it is an interesting beginning of, as we talked about on the emergency pod, this roster now has to flip. They're going to start. This is going to be the highest pay defense in football by next season, and they're going to have to figure out a way

to have good cheap offense. Yeah, I was going to say, I've seen the conversation online about what does this mean for Cooper de Gene and Quineon Mitchell's future with the team. They're not going anywhere. Like the Eagles are not in the business of letting true blue chip elite talent test-free agency. So the question is less about those two who are both going to be extension eligible next off season. It's way more about how can they manage a roster with those guys as cornerstones on huge deals. I think Quineon Mitchell could reset the corner market.

Cooper to Gene's contract is going to be fascinating to see what he ends up getting paid. but I think they will be in Midnight Green or Kelly Green or whatever the Eagles are wearing. It's going to be about how can they balance it around that. Well, the other person who was really interesting to me in all of this, as you think about the big picture dynamics, is Zach Bonn, because this is the final year of guaranteed money for him. And I find it hard to believe that the Eagles are going to want to have, like, the highest paid defensive tackle, the highest paid corner in football,

and the highest paid linebacker in football. Jack Bond's 30 right now. I think there's a real solid chance. this is his last year in Philadelphia. It's part of, it's part of, you know, why it's such a big year for Jahad Campbell. If Jihad Campbell is who they think he is, then maybe they can feel okay moving on from Zachon.

As you said, they're not in the business of getting rid of great players. So that is an interesting one where I don't know how he's going to handle that. You know, they never really paid linebackers. Are they going to pay a linebacker who's 31 years old? I don't know. Yeah, it seems like a natural transition. And I guess I should couch. They don't get rid of blue chip players, elite players.

It's usually at premium positions, especially when push comes to shove. So, yeah, that's, it's daunting to think of it that way. Like what you just said, it could be Zach Bonn's last year, but it absolutely could. And you think about you've got, you know, you're paying Zach Bond, you've got Rick Willen who's making real money,

you've got Jonathan Grenard who's making real money. This is probably the last year of having a truly loaded defense at every position for the foreseeable future. At some point, they're going to have to make some concessions. and you know, you can't be great everywhere. It's like this defense has got to be awesome. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on how quickly you can accelerate the transition on offense to some degree.

Like at some point, like if, you know, you have a Lane Johnson, if Lane Johnson retires the next offseason, and you have a Lane Johnson successor that's your first round pick. And, you know, from there, it's like Dallas Goddard's gone. And you, maybe Eli Stowers is that person who steps into it. Yeah, I'm just, I'm trying to project it out. If you have Lana Dickerson retired and you have a day two guard that's stepping into that role. And then the big question is, what does Jalen Hertz's contract look like this time next offseason? You know, I put out something about the Cooper Eugene and Quinnon Mitchell of it all.

And someone said, like, you know, the elephant in the room is that they might not be paying a quarterback, you know, $50 plus million next year. Or on the flip side, you could be paying a quarterback $60 plus million next year if the offense looks good. And then you really need to accelerate offensively getting, you know, probably the majority of your start. starters on rookie contracts, you know, players that you bring in through the draft. So, yeah, again, that's the daunting question that comes from a deal like this to me, way more than like, what does it mean for Quinnown, Mitchell, and Cooper did you? Well said. Okay. I'm going to take our first break here on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast as training

camp is seeping down. Seeping. Begins tomorrow. Can't wait. We're going to talk about the position battles we're watching at each position. Put some turkeys on it. with us. Let me peer inside that mind. You've been thinking, you've been thinking about upgrading your mattress. Well, Ashley's mattress free for all is a time to make it happen. Interest, free financing, free delivery, and even free mattress upgrades. That means you can get a king mattress for the price of a queen or score. A free adjustable base upgrade on select purchases. Plus, you'll get a free gift with every mattress purchase. It's one of the best mattress events of the year. So don't miss Miss Ashley's mattress free for all happening now,

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Bo Wolf E.J. Smith training camp starts tomorrow. We will be there for the first practice. Lots of guys to watch. Very exciting. We'll have you covered at 2 o'clock. Everything you need to know. Fran will be with us as well. Let's get started.

Now, this is a good way to track how things progress over the course of camp. We have a position battle at each position. Some of them for starting jobs, some of them for backup jobs. We're going to put our turkeys on the line, how we think they're going to play out over the course of camp,

and then we will track it over the course of camp and put new bets on the line and see how things move. So let's start at quarterback, EJ. I think the first one here, no doubt, is backup quarterback. By the end of camp, will the number two quarterback be Tanner McKee

or Andy Dalton? In the spring, we saw a little bit more Annie Dalton than Tanner McKee, which was a surprise to us. Andy Dalton didn't look very good through a bunch of interceptions. There's a possibility that the Eagles maybe have a trade worked out for Tanner McKee. That could happen.

Now, Tanner McKee was with Jalen Hertz in those Houston workout for those. Tell them, I mean, A, he's a foot tall and everybody, but B, he's always got the bucket hat. Yeah, which is great style. I thought that was notable. How are you dispersing your turkeys between Tanner McKee and Andy Dalton?

So I actually didn't put many turkeys on the possibility that Andy Dalton would beat Tanner McKee out for the number two spot over the course of training camp. So all of the turkeys I have for Andy Dalton are really, if Tanner McKee has traded. Sure. So I settled on, you know what, I'm going to have some feel for these.

I wrote them out this morning. But I'm going to be subject to maybe waffling a little bit on my turkeys here. but just to make sure that they're right, to make it clear. So I'm going to go McKee, 70. I'm going to go Andy Dalton, 25, and I'm going to give five to the field. You know, I'm going to invoke the field every once in a while,

and the five for the field is one where you trade to Ann McKee, Andy Dalton didn't look great in training camp, so you were adding a backup quarterback via trade from maybe a team that doesn't... Sam Powell type? Yeah, just a team that can, like, offload their number two quarterback, or really, you know, maybe, you know, somebody who, yeah, again,

could present more value for a contending team. It's a small chance. I don't think we need to dwell on the five I gave to the field, but I wanted to explain my five I gave to the field. I have none on the field. I just, I can't really envision a scenario unless one of them gets a season-ending injury. I mean, if Andy Dalton looks terrible,

but you get a conditional three that could turn into a two for Tanner McKee, you could make that work. Use a six to get somebody else. If Andy Dalton looks terrible, I feel like, and you've traded Andy Dalton. Dalton, they're just going to, he's old enough. It was like, oh, well, if he gets called in, he'll be the same old guy.

Okay, well, now I got five percent. I don't think you sign Andy Dalton. Now I got, I'm the high man at five percent. If it happens, I can take credit. I have 60 on McKee and 40 on Dalton, but I am. 40 on Dalton. Wow. Yeah.

I am wondering if we are distrusting what we see with our own eyes because it seems so unbelievable. I mean, Dalton got most of the reps. it could be because they have the framework of a McKee deal worked out. That's possible. But I just, there's no way that the two of them are on the field and Dalton wins the job. I just, I cannot envision it.

Yeah, I mean, so let's talk about this. They could have the framework of a deal worked out. Like, what does that look like? Like the other team, are they waiting to see if, like, a young quarterback looks good in camp? Are they just like, I don't know. Like, what would be the hold of? Yeah, you would think that you would want a quarterback in your building as soon as possible.

Yeah. I don't know. I continue to be bewildered by this one. Yeah. For the record, Joe 76. I wasn't saying that I think that that's the deal. I think that's like the scenario where you end up trading Tanner McKee without a good backup plan, literally and figuratively. Yeah.

I mean, I think he's probably worth a- cannot overstate how bad any dollar was in the spring. The spring, he's 64-4. years old. It doesn't really matter how he looks in practice. He's here for his veteran know-how. But boy, was it ugly. Let me put some tinfoil on my hat for a second here before we move on to the next position. Could it be that like Sean Mannion looks at Tanner McKeon is just like he's not a good fit for the offense I want to run? You know, is it possible that he's like he doesn't have, you know, the wide zone movement ability. Like you can't get out

there for those boot legs. Creaky old, like, Andy Dalton's like... Noisy hips. He can get on the move for you. I mean, I don't think he's a much better athlete, but I feel like, I mean, like it's a low bar. I feel like Andy Dalton probably still moves a little better than Tanner McKee at this

point. I would honestly would like to watch that race, yes. I don't think it's crazy. I think Andy Dalton, here's the, here's how that works out. Andy Dalton wins the first race, but if there's a second race, He gets dusted. It's like, yeah. Good once as he ever was.

Tanner's probably better at pocket movement, but I don't know. Again, this is tinfoil hat. We're talking about like 10% chances. It's like it's a Josh McCown. The thing comes clean off the bone. And then my second tinfoil hat is that Sean Mannion just likes having an old veteran quarterback in that spot. And he doesn't, you know,

doesn't want someone still learning on the job as the backup. But yeah, I don't know. It's weird. I agree, it's weird. Okay. Running back. Now, Sequin, obviously, is the number one. Pretty clear that seems that Tank Biggsby's your number two.

Eagles will carry at least three running backs. Who is the number three running back? Is it Will Shipley? Who is the incumbent? Is it Damien Pierce? Is it Elijah Mitchell? Or is it the field? How do you have your turkeys?

You want me to go first this time? No, I'll go first again. You can go first for the next couple. that. I gave 65 turkeys to Shipley. I think he has enough special teams value. And I actually think this third running back role with Sequin and Tank Bigsby both entrenched and both like, I mean, you could, I think Tank Biggsby will actually have a role in the offense this year. So obviously, Sequin is in his own category as like a heavy usage player. I think Tank Bigsby is also going to get a handful of carries and maybe even be featured, you know, in like two running back

sets where you get them involved in the past game as well. For that reason, I think you can be pretty creative with that third spot because it is going to be a limited role in the offense. Like, you might want a specialist. And for that reason, I think Will Shipley has the inside track. From there, I mean, like, really with Damien Pierce and Elijah Mitchell, you're kind of just guessing, like, what's the chance that they're going to be healthy? And if they are healthy, like, I think they can push Will Shipley. I gave Damien Pierce 15, Elijah Mitchell 10, and the field 10. What I think is fun of about this group is they're all stylistically different. You know, Damian Pierce and Eliza and Mitchell, they share some of the same DNA,

but I do think they're different, their running styles are a little different with Pierce being a little bit more physical, Mitchell being more of a one-cut, one-cut, get-up-field type of guy. So, yeah, it's going to be fun to watch these guys throughout the summer. I have 75 on Shipley, as opposed to year 65, just because he is incumbent, he's a draft pick. I think that matters a little bit to what you said. they have like running back covered between the two guys

and so he provides a little of something different. I have 15 on Pierce, five on Elijah Mitchell. The difference being that they signed Pierce first. He was the one that they actually were interested in giving a contract to. Mitchell had to try out. And then the field, I have five,

although I wouldn't mind push, I might want to push the field up a little bit higher in retrospect only because I think this is a spot where young guys come loose who may be impressed in the summer. Like, I don't think they feel like they need to use a roster spot on Damien Pierce or Elijah Mitchell. But if Will Shipley is underwhelming, this could be like, oh, some six-round draft pick this year, shook loose. We kind of liked them a little bit.

It was such a bad running back class. Exactly. I wonder if that's a, there's a ripple effect. I think it maybe less so this year. Yeah, where guys aren't shaking loose. Yeah, it's interesting. All right, you want to talk wide receiver? Yeah, so do you want to do number two wide receiver, number four wide receiver or both?

Well, let's, number two wide receiver is going to be divorced from this game. This is a separate conversation because number two wide receiver, I don't think we'll be settled in training camp. It's going to be maybe off vibes, it will. Maybe based off like who had the most impressive summer. This is something that, you know, maybe the first month of the season, the second month of the regular season, we can actually say who won this. But for the purposes of grading this exercise, we will take out number two receiver from

the points. But I'm curious how you. think this plays out in terms of now are you thinking of this who's going to get the second most targets between mckeye lemon dontavian wicks hollywood brown or who's going to be in the field the most um i'm going to make it who is going to be the more productive out of this group i'm expecting that this player will probably get the third most targets behind devonte smith and dallas goddard if they have an incredible summer maybe they could vault past dallas goddard um and i went i might surprise you with this i went 60 on mckeye lemon

I went 19 on Dante Vian Wicks, and I went 14 on Hollywood Brown, and seven on the field. Now, let me talk through some of these for you. McCoy Lemon, I think, is going to have an encouraging summer. We didn't see him much in the spring because he had a hamstring injury. We saw him working out with Jalen Hertz in the lead up to training camp, and I think it was the Inquirer's Olivia Reiner, friend of the show, friend of me personally, who reported that McCoy Lemon's expected to be 100% going into training camp. I think he's going to look good.

I also like Olivia, just, you know, I can't. I would consider us friends. My personal friend, a friend of our entire family, huge fan of Olivia. I don't think there's a bigger fan out there. Probably a pair. I hope so. Top five. Top five Olivia fan.

Shout out to Olivia. So I think Mikhail Emanuel will look good in training camp, and I think that we'll be encouraged by him. And again, this is more of a vibes thing. Like, I think that this will be very fluid throughout, honestly, throughout the season, who's going to be the number two guy? I think that some Eagles fans will be surprised that Wix is so low in my turkeys here. I just, maybe it's you.

You put a bug in my ear here about like, Don Tavian Wix being a little bit oversold going into his Eagles tenure. I still think he could be really good and really productive, but I don't know. I was looking through some of his numbers this morning. His catch rate. So like basically let's let me take his cut back. He's got a history of drops.

So, but it's not even just drops. It's just his production. Yeah. What you would have to. So basically, three years or two years in row. Yeah, in 2024, he had a career high in targets. It was 76. For context, Devante Smith was second on the Eagles and targets with 113 last year.

Dallas Goddard was at 82. So his highest career high in targets was a little bit shy of what you'd expect for him in the Eagles offense, if they are, especially if they're a heavier passing offense than they were last year. That season, he had a 51.3% catch rate. Like, that is alarmingly lower than Devante Smith. at 68.1%, Dallas got it at 73.2%. You know, Wix was at 65.2 last year, but it's still not great.

And that was in a much more limited role. So it is just a significant projection to envision him being the second receiver behind Devante Smith. That's not saying you can't do it, but at the very least, like, he hasn't shown, like, in his career that he has the capability of handling that expanded of a role. I actually think Hollywood Brown, like, has more experience, being a high volume guy, even though I know Eagles fans probably wouldn't want to hear

that he could be the number two receiver, I don't think it's going to happen, but I think that at least shows you that Dantavian Wick's stepping into that role, like there's a lot of questions about that still. Yeah, I mean, the Eagles are betting that they know Dontavian wicks better than the Packers do.

The Packers are not a bad organization. They had lost Romeo Dobbs and still felt that Dantean Wix was expendable. Now, they used the first friend pick on Matthew Golden last year and they want to create opportunity for him but they've also,

and they've got Christian Watson and Jane Reed. So there are a lot of mouths to feed there that has been kind of the engine that makes them go offensively is the fact that they have such a varied group of wide outs. There is reason to believe that that's why he was expendable.

But if they thought, and they've had him in the building for three years, that he was a starting count, caliber receiver, they wouldn't have traded him for what they traded him for. So maybe Sean Mannion has a very specific role in mind, and he thinks that he can carry that out. You know, he gives Nick Sirian and Keenan Allen vibes. That's great. The Eagles could be right.

Yeah. I think that it would be disappointing if he is the number two receiver, if it's not Mackay Lemon. I think, given the way we think they want the offense to look, I think you really are rooting for it to be Mikhail Lemon. Yeah, I think in an ideal scenario for the Eagles receiving core, Mackie Lemon is third in targets, maybe second in targets, and Don Tavian Wix is fourth. But I think the thing is if Sean Mannion is who people think he is,

and the indication is that he has this great vision for what the offense is going to look like, and he's really strong at communicating that, if it looks the way that he wants it to look, and it's Don Tavian Wicks, like, running comeback routes and go balls because he's good at that, and he can, you know, take a lot of snaps on the outside and facilitate for Don Tavia, or McCoy Lemon and Devante Smith. That makes sense to me.

And maybe that is the role that Sean Manning envisions for him. But, yeah, I just think, like, the order of operations here, like, the fact that Dantavian Wicks was kind of the big addition before McKay Lemon was drafted, because of that, it kind of felt like we spent some time with, like, Don Tavian Wicks pencilled in as the other receiver opposite Devante Smith. I think it's probably not that straightforward. It's going to be interesting. And I think you're right that Hollywood Brown has maybe slept on a little bit here as a possibility.

He's had triple digit targets. I think it was four straight years. Now, listen, he's not that player anymore and those were not great teams. But if you're telling me, like, you need someone that's going to have 80 targets, like Hollywood Brown has at least done it a few times in his career. So I don't know. I think that the gap between those players probably isn't as big as it felt like, given like the acquisition.

All right, let's talk about number four wide receiver. Yeah. Where you're going to put your turkeys here between Hollywood Brown, Elijah Moore, Darius Cooper, Johnny Wilson, and the field. And I've got 65 here on Hollywood Brown because I think he's going to make the team. He's got enough guaranteed money to make that seem like an eventuality. Just two on Elijah Moore. Again, finished the season last year on a practice squad.

Yeah. It could be a good opportunity for him this summer. Johnny Wilson was very active in the spring. and there's a mini competition between him and Darius Cooper for Dirty Work guy I've got six on Wilson

seven on Darius Cooper just because I got a ride with my guy even though I might actually think the odds are in Johnny Wilson's favor and then I have 20 on the field which would be Don Tavian Wix

if they make some kind of addition who bumps him down a slot Oh that's fun I like that I hadn't considered like a Dantavian Wix is the number four guy although I like that I went Brown 70

I went Darius Cooper 14. I'm not selling my Darius Cooper stock right now. I want to see what he looks like in training camp and in the preseason. I gave Johnny Wilson 8, especially. We'll see if Sean Mannion can cook up some like, can you play some 13 personnel tight end or something like that? And then I gave Elijah more five in the field three. I probably would flip those, but, you know, some antics at that point.

All right, time to take our next break on the PHAI Eagles podcast as training camp approaches. I'll be with you with more turkey spreading on the other side. You know, owning a home is great. Until something breaks. One day everything's fine and the next you're dealing with a burst pipe, a broken water heater, or your AC decides to quit in the middle of summer. Those repairs never seem to happen at a convenient time or when your wallet is ready.

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H-L-Y for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply again. PHLY for $20. All right. Number two, tight end. What do you got? All right. I got your boy,

Johnny Munt. I gave him 60 turkeys. I gave Eli Stowers 25 turkeys, and the Eagles fans won't want to hear this, but I gave Grand Calcutara 15. I think Johnny Munt's going to be the one that gets the second most snaps in the room. You know, I think... Now, are we using this?

Are we using, like, week one? for this or over the course of the season? Because this is, this is probably week one. Yeah, I think week one. I expect Johnny Munn to probably be the second tight end in a lot of the 12 personnel or the second tight end and 12 personnel. I expect him to be on the field for almost any of the 13 personnel.

And for that reason, I have him over Eli Stowers by a pretty wide margin. There's just, you know, there's a lot of unknowns about what Eli Stowers's his role is going to look like as a rookie. There's a chance he doesn't play very much at all. And there's a chance that they don't feel confident that he could be the player to step in if Dallas Goddard's hurt. So even as the season evolves, I'm not positive that he's the one that steps in if Goddard gets injured. So that's why I'm

still giving, I'm still holding space for Grant Calcutera with 15 turkeys. I know a lot of Eagles fans won't want to hear that. But I mean, you know, I understand Grand Carcatera had a bad 20, 25 season, but he's been like a productive fill-in tight end when Dallas Goddard's been injured in the past, which is why I still think he's with the team, frankly. So you're not holding any space for the field here? I mean, smart. Who would it be? Like, Darwish.

I think those guys are fun, but the number two tight end, the one on the field of the most, yeah. I actually, I have no turkeys on Grand Calcutera as a number two. That could be wrong there. I think there's a chance he makes a team for sure. But in terms of number two tight end, snaps week one.

I have 51 on month. Because I think he will be the reliable. He can block so Goddard can be there. But I think they probably have a role in vision for Eli Stowers. Really? And I think number two for him. I think there's upside as far as they're concerned. If the summer goes the way they want it to,

I think they would love Free Lys Stowers to be the number two tight end. I think that that's maybe unrealistic. Yeah, it's just tricky. It's like, are you going to have Stowers and Goddard on the field in 12 personnel? Because it doesn't really give you the advantages of running out of 12. Or they play, or they're, you know, 13 personnel, 15% of the time. Yeah. And Stowers gets a bunch of snaps that way.

Yeah, this is a conversation we've had about Stowers. Yeah, I don't know. Adnauseum at this point where it's like, we don't really know what his role is going to be and what the use case is that maximizes him, especially early in his career. I think you're hoping in a year's time, we're talking about him just being the Eagle starting tight end. But yeah, there's a lot that has to happen between now and then. I think the bigger issue is, you know, how he paid a lot of lip service too.

He's got to do a better job filling out that room with guys who can block. And all he did was sign Johnny Munt. Yeah. And so if Johnny Munt gets injured, they don't have anyone who can block. Calcutera can't do it. Stowers can't do it. You know, E.J. Jenkins is not a blocker by trade. Dayquan Wright is not a blocker by trade.

Stone Smart is like, like, is also not a blocker by trade? It's more of a move tight end. I guess he becomes a guy. Maybe they think they can find that on the street or trade for a guy, but they didn't really backfill that spot. They got a lot hinging on Johnny Munt being the guy who can hold that room together. I mean, you know what I'm going to say. Crazy.

Cam Lato is probably the player you're bringing forward if Johnny Munt's missing time. I unironically think he is their second best option after Johnny Munt. if you want a specific blocking tight end somebody to do some of the dirty work. But yeah, I mean, maybe it's Willie Lampkin. Maybe they just have to get creative there. But yeah, it's a great point. It's like they didn't turn over the room. They added one guy that can address that.

All right. Let's talk about swing tackle. Fred Johnson, Markell Bell. Do you have any space for the field here or is it just two of them? Just those two. I gave Fred Johnson 55 and Markele Bell 45. I went 51 on Markele Bell. Really?

49 on Fred Johnson. And the reason that I lean that way, now we should say, if you're just joining us and we're not a part of the spring conversation stuff, Markell Bell got the reps when Lane Johnson was down, or not was absent at right tackle instead of Fred Johnson when Fred Johnson was also there,

Markle Bell, we thought was going to be just sort of like left tackle only. Yeah. It was very interesting that he got those right tackle reps. I have Marka Bell the slight edge, because I think there is a world in which they just move on. from Fred Johnson. I think that's possible. Yeah, just, he's played good football for him.

I agree with you. It would be a minor surprise, but I think that is a possibility. Yeah, I think the case for that is like, maybe you sneak Fred Johnson onto the practice squad if you think that there's just not a market for him. Yeah, I just, I wanted to pump the brakes a little bit on, like, if we were talking about Lane Johnson is missing time

in the second week of camp, just like a vet day, Markell Bell probably would be the one that they'd want to get those reps. Right. They want to give the value of the reps. If they're playing the Rams in week three, I think it is, or week four, it's week four. If they're playing a Rams in week four and, like, Milata's got to miss a series because he lost his helmet or something, I would expect Fred Johnson to be the one that they would be on. Yeah, but the reps, you would think this is a new scheme.

It's a new coach. So Fred needs those reps too, right? Yeah, but Markell Bell probably benefits more from them as a developmental player this time of the year. I feel like you'll get Fred Johnson his reps with... I mean, he can get those reps with the second team. He's still running the same scheme. He's like the veteran that you can rely on,

but not the one you're trying to develop with a vested interest. So, yeah, I think if push comes to shove, I'd still give Fred Johnson 55 over Markell Bell. Okay. But Markell Bell's been fun to watch. He's an exciting, exciting young player. How about who is your top interior offensive line backup?

Drew Kendall? The second best... Michael Jordan? LeBron James. or the field. The second best NBA player in the history of the game. Michael Jordan, I gave him 55 turkeys. Second best, because LeBron is the goat.

Drew Kendall, I gave 35, and I gave 10 to the field. I might be the high man on Kendall. What? I might be the high man on Drew Kendall, but I'm going to stand on that. I feel good about being high. What do you mean you're going to stand on that? What a hypocrite.

You buried Michael Jordan and your ranking of the one through 91 guys on the roster. I'm sorry. Am I not allowed to be? evolve? And so what did Michael Jordan do over the course of the past three weeks when they weren't on the practice field to change your mind? Listen, you have conversations, you take into information. I'm not going to be, you know, I'm like one people on the set. Maybe I won't be so stubborn in my opinions on things. I'm getting busy with all of this. If you prove me, if you prove me wrong, then I will say, all right, you know what, Michael Jordan should have been higher on the roster

pyramid and for that reason he's the leader in the clubhouse as the second best NBA player at all time um but yeah i want to be the high man on drew kendall because i do think he's got a chance to be the first off an interior offensive lineman off the bench well you're not but you only put 30 on him right 35 what do you have on him on drew kendall yeah 80 are you serious yes Michael jordan has mystified me especially your your opinion of it 80 because i don't think that Michael Jordan can play center. Okay. And so this is about a, this is a game day backup deal here.

This is a semantics thing. Oh, you think because Kendall can play all three, he'll be, okay. All right, never mind. So I've got him in 80. I've got Michael Jordan at five, and I've got the field at 15. Okay. I like your rankings better because I wanted to be the high man on Drew Ken. I thought you were going to be all in on your boy, Michael Jordan.

I think Michael Jordan is a good chance to make the team. You will stand for all Michael Jordans. You were standing for the NBA Michael Jordan yesterday. And now, actually, you're kind of not standing for Michael Jordan, the Eagle. No. Today. All right. Let's go to our last break, and then we will come back and talk about the defense.

We've got position battles at defensive tackle four, edge four, starting linebacker next to Zach Bonn, back up nickel, and starting safety. Where will the turkeys fall? Stay with us. Whether you are grinding through your rec league playoffs, a little softball game, maybe a little softball game, a little tennis, chasing your kids around the house. We're just feeling the aftermath of a Saturday morning workout. Pain does not have to be part of the routine.

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Visit trummark.com slash momentum. Federally insured by NCU.A. All right, back in the page of the Yagle's show, Bo and E.J. Defensive tackle four is an interesting one. as we think about the room post Jalen Carter extension. Obviously, you've got Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis and Moroogamo, probably the best defensive tackle group in the league in terms of a top three. You need a fourth guy.

It's going to eat up not that many snaps, but a good amount of snaps. We've got Byron Young, who was the guy last year, Ty Robinson, who was drafted to be the guy last year as a fourth round pick, but disappointed. Gabe Hall and the field, how did he spread? I gave Byron Young. 45. I gave Gabe Hall 32. I gave Ty Robinson 18 and I gave 10 to the field. Interesting. I figured, I mean, Byron Young, even though Les really doesn't like Byron Young whenever we talk about. That's right. It's great funny. I just think about that. I feel like he is at the very least like a cromulent, like versatile interior defensive lineman that you can have behind those three guys. Probably is the one you feel the best about as like a nose tackle or a nose tackle adjacent. And for that reason, I think he could.

hold, I gave him the inside track. I like Gabe Hall and I like, I, I, I like Ty Robinson, like the idea of Ty Robinson, not necessarily what we saw last year, but yeah, I think Gabe Hall probably, maybe, maybe, you know what, if I was going to do this over, I probably give slightly fewer to Gabe Hall and try to get him and Ty Robinson closer together. But I think Byron Young, I think 45 is about right for him. I don't think that's crazy. I have zero on Gabe Hall.

Yeah. Only because last year was the year when, if it was going to happen, it would happen. he had a really good summer last year and then he was like he made the roster and was the first guy cut yeah but if he looks awesome again but to your point

it's like if you want that play that player profile you're probably banking on Ty Robinson rather than Gabe Hall I have Robinson at 40 and Byron Young at 38 I just the draft pick incentives there

that they would want him to get the job there's no doubt that you know I think we're over overstating it to say he had a disappointing rookie year. But when you draft a guy who was an older player in the fourth round, you're expecting him to have an immediate impact, and he could not get on the field.

I'm going to buy into one year in the strength program. Maybe that matters. And then I've got 22 in the field. But you could tell me Ty Robinson's DT4, you could tell me that he doesn't make the team. I think that's a pretty wide variance. I agree. How do I, how's my Gabe Hall pronunciation?

Not as good. I mean, I'm not trying to make it as good. is my predecessor, but just wondering if I have the same tendency. I think if you listen for it, you can hear it at anybody. I mean, that's what's so fun about the name. There you go. All right, Edge 4. Arnold Ebikati, A.J. Epinessa, two A.E's.

We haven't talked about that enough. That's fun. That is fun. Kishon, James Newby, and the field. I gave Ebokati 70, Epinessa, 25, James Newby. I'll give them three and give two to the field. I also gave Ebukati's 70. I gave Epinessa 30 and nobody, nothing on either of the other two.

Yeah, I was just trying to, yeah. I read my turkeys, make sure I got all my bases covered. But Eponessa is interesting. I mean, you know, he would have signed for a lot more money. He did sign for a lot more money and then filled his physical. So if he comes to camp healthy, he's got a real shot. And frankly, he is probably the answer to DT4. That's a good point.

Yeah, to bump inside. Well, I think it depends on what you're after, though. why I like Byron Young because, again, like not saying he is like a Linval Joseph type that's like, you know, a gap plugging nose tackle, but he at least can stretch into that spot. And then, yeah, you can use somebody like Epinessa to bump inside if you need a pass rushing rotation. Right. They've got everybody who can drop and then they've got Epinessa who can reduce inside.

Yep. Linebacker, starting linebacker next to Zach Bond, Jahad Campbell, Jeremiah Trader Jr. I've got 100 on Jehad Campbell. I've got 90 on Campbell. I've got 10 on Jeremiah Trotter Jr. I don't think it's crazy to say that Jeremiah Trotter Jr. could win the job. I don't think it's likely based off the fact that I gave him 10 turkeys and not 50 turkeys. But I don't know.

I mean, we saw it happen last summer. Maybe I am overweighting it, but it's not impossible that Jeremiah Trotter Jr. is just going to be rock solid throughout training camp. And Vick's going to go, you know what? I have another surprise up my sleeve on the starting. lineup of his defense. We've seen it before. Yeah. So I'm going to hold space for it. We've seen this, we've seen Vic do this before. You know, this time last year we thought that Nicopi Dime was going to get while he pipped.

So I just, if it's not an injury, I just can't see it. I mean, but that is part of this too, is that an injury would give him this job. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if, I don't know if Howie Roseman lets Vic Fangio leave the building or I guess get into the building if he wants to play Trotter over Campbell. I could, I could just, maybe, maybe my, my holding up, like, holding the door open for the chance is more like seven turkeys or five. But I think there is a non-zero chance that Jeremiah Trotter Jr. could win the job. Okay. Agree to disagree.

Back up nickel. So, respect to Cooper de Jean. Michael Carter the second. Jonathan Jones, Mac MacMach Williams, or the field? I gave, oh, back up nickel, sorry. I gave Michael Carter 65. I gave Jonathan Jones 25. He isn't played inside in a while,

but we know that he has that capability. And then I gave Mac and McWilliams 10. Yeah, he had that week of training camp last year. He can't forget about that. Good stuff, I think is what Vicks said. They're not with Smile Monda that he said good stuff about. Nothing on the field? No.

I mean, yeah. I feel like Michael Carter is actually a really solid backup nickel. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But I've got 48 on him, 45 on Jonathan Jones. one on Mac McWilliams and six on the field. Okay. You got somebody in mine for the field?

Get your umbrellas out. Okay. Gushy Gush. Oh, I was like, where are you going with this? All right. And then what looks like the main event in terms of training camp battles for the Eagles this summer, starting safety next to Drew McCuba.

Now when they're in base, it'll be Cooper de Jean, but they will not be in base that often. Marcus Epps is the incumbent, Michael Carter the second, in the field. Well, Howie, full of howie-wowie. I went 60 on Epps,

25 on Carter, 15 on the field. I went 40 on Epps, 25 on Carter, 35 on the field. Okay. And if you had to separate Grant Delpit from the field,

what would those turkeys be? I don't know, 10 on Delpit, 25 on the field. Okay. I like that. I think Dupit's the one. If they can get him, I think it makes a lot of sense

and it would make sense for the Browns to deal him, although my brother-in-law is not a fan of it, who is a Browns fan and a very sad Cavs fan because the fact that LeBron signed with the Sixers. LeBron.

Dang. Yeah, I think this one will be fun. It's going to be very interesting to watch. I think, you know, as you, you guys got to make sure you tune in every day. Post-practice will have your takeaways or we'll have takeaways from every day. And I think that this is going to be a topic

every post-practice, Every time we talk about it. We're going to track it for you, baby. Tracking everything. Let you know how it goes. All right. How about long snapper? Rocco Underwood or the field?

75 Rocko Underwood, 25 the field. Okay. That was a gut reaction. That's not going to be. That wasn't an official ruling. Oh, well, God forbid. Maybe I'd do more on the field. Can you find like an old long snapper out there?

Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's like not a position that, how old do you have to be to, like, start to struggle long snapping? I don't know. Maybe Andy Dalton can do it. Maybe. I feel like long snapper is, like, your retirement is mostly just teams lose interest in you. Like, not in a sense of, like, oh, he's washed, just in, like, a, yeah, like, we'll find somebody else.

You know, if, if, if the snapping quality is about even, maybe, you know, you can't cover. You can't be involved. But the snap and quality is really all that matters. This sounds like a good story idea. Although if they've got Rocco Underwood, he's not going to know. So they should sign a veteran long snapper that I can talk to. Maybe I'll make some calls. Well, unfortunately, I don't have Rick LaVado's number.

Yeah, I'll find it. That wouldn't be that hard. Just DM him on Instagram. I'm not going to do that. But, I mean, I'll pull some strings. That's interesting, though, isn't it? Like, you're 42 years old if you were an NFL long snapper. Yeah, but it's like you lose your feel when you get older.

You know, it's like putting you off the couch. If they told you you got a week and then you're trying out, you'd be hitting the bullseye with your long snaps by the end of that week. Definitely. Maybe. That's a skill that you don't just lose. The older you get, the more demons you got. You know what I mean?

No, I don't think that's true. I think the older you get the wiser you are, the more battle tested you are. More you doubt yourself. Yeah, Radfrak is right. We need more Jamie Moyer longstaff. Although that's a velocity thing. Maybe that's it. Maybe you're not as explosive getting the ball back there.

Hip flexibility. Oh, I know all about that. Yeah? My hips are so tight, always, man. It's so bad. I do my 90-90s. I do my four-figure stretches. I got it.

You got to do all the surrounding muscles? What are 90-90s? Four or five times a week. You don't know the 90-90? It's, you sit with like your feet up and your knees in the air. and then you basically like push your legs you just like let your legs fall one direction so you're making two 90 degree angles with your leg that's why they call them 9090s you do them for a minute and you reach out you know you got to like stretch your hip flexes okay mobility's important people

if you're not doing if you're not stretching everybody's got to be loose for training camp you guys are going tomorrow too you better be ready oh you know how like stiff my back is going to be by the end of the week. Now, I'm not complaining because I am very excited for training camp, but yeah, you stand for like hours and hours.

You need one of those stools that, like, folds up. You can just take a seat if you need it. They don't let you do that. They don't let you sit. They don't let you sit on the sideline, yeah.

I got to stand. It's a hazard. Like, what if the action... Sounds like you got to get a doctor's note. And you really used to call you out just for leaning. Like,

if you were leaning on something, he would call you out from practice. You know, that's a thing. That's a thing about, like Americans that they say is that Americans are always leaning on stuff like what's better than a good lean you kidding me a load are you kidding me I love a lean that's what they say they say that you can always tell an American because they're leaning on a good a good grab a quick sit oh

well my thing is I'm a germ it's better than that so I don't like to touch stuff I don't have to touch how about how about just like a lean with your shoulder I'll do a shoulder lean do a shoulder lean yeah it's a good song oh no It's a good song. Yeah, so I'm going to be doing my stretches every morning. I'm going to try to get to the gym after practice this year. It's hard, man. It's hard.

I'm not, listen, none of this is complaining. I am very excited about the fact that we are being delivered from the offseason and brought onto the football field once again. But this is, you know, these are my life things. This is what I'm working on, what I'm trying to be better about. Getting to the gym after practice and stuff. Yeah, real. Brutal might be strong.

It's as hard as it gets. If you have time to lean, you have time to clean, is the signed K-redd saw on a workshop once. Oh, Grace wants to know what heavy metal bands I listen to. I mean, obviously like Metallica, because, you know, as a young guitarist, you learn some of the songs. Sure.

I don't think, see, this is where I'm going to get myself in trouble, because I never claim that I listen to, like, hardcore heavy metal. But like I would... I'm gonna get myself in trouble here. I feel like some of a day to remember his music is like at least heavy metal adjacent.

I listen to them in high school. Now a real heavy metal head's gonna be like appalled that I said that because they are kind of like poppy heavy metal. But I would listen to them. I can't remember some of the other ones. I listened to like a little screamo in high school. So if I saw the bands like album covers,

I'd recognize them, but that was the extent of my heavy metal consumption in high school. There you go. You have your answers. Give me some recommendations. I'd listen to it. All right. Well, that's going to do it for this episode of the PHAY Eagles podcast.

We are back with you tomorrow at 2 o'clock, recapping the first Eagles training camp practice of the summer. Don't forget to check out the emergency pod on the Jalen Carter signing with the little Fran Duffy involved. for Lindsay and E.J. Drew and his Frank Stallone-looking brother. We appreciate everybody for watching and listening. Let us know what your favorite position battle to watch the summer is going to be. And as always, we love you.