PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Fran Duffy Breaks Down How Jaelan Phillips, Eagles Defense Have Become ELITE Once Again

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Pick a player on defense, from Jaelan Phillips, Jalen Carter, Moro Ojomo and Jordan Davis up front to Nakobe Dean and Zack Baun in the middle to Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean on the back end, the Eagles have difference makers all over. Fran Duffy breaks down how the Eagles defense snuffed out the high-power Lions offense and kept them to just nine points in Sunday night’s relentless victory. And sure, we’ll talk about the offense too. Plus, Brandon Graham joins the show with insight on why the Eagles defense was so good on fourth down. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody, live from the Xfinity Mobile Studio. This is the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast presented by Bet365 and Ashley. I'm Bo Wolf. We're joined by the Great Eagles insider E.J. Smith and the king of the Snobie. Happy Snaps, Fran Duffy. Fran, how are you on this fine Monday afternoon? Doing great. Yeah, I spent the whole morning going through the Eagles film from last night. Started off with the defense.

Wanted to get my morning off on a good note. And that works. And then got into the offense before lunch. And it's a good thing. Do you think it would have been a better day for you if you had gone the other way? No, it's like waking up on the wrong side of the bed. You got to start with the better unit first. See, I disagree, Fran.

like i i i enjoy like i feel like i like mess i like dramas so i actually start with the eagles offense and uh to be fair it kind of fit that description for for this game but like for me like that that's like uh i find that i am a harsher critic if i'm seeing that stuff early in the morning like it's like if that's the this is the first thing i'm watching now my notes are going to be are going to be down this this is how you're going to start my day yeah right exactly where i i got i got to go the inverse i got to slowly build up to the negative i respect that all right Well, we will get to all of that, obviously much to break down from a very impressive defensive performance, the best performance of the season for the Eagles in perhaps their most difficult test. We'll talk about Nicopi Dean, Jalen Phillips, the dynamic defense that the Eagles have.

We're going to hear from Brandon Graham, who checked in early this morning, some interesting insight on that play he was involved in on fourth down. And he also answers a question that had been bugging Fran. I will tease that. And then after that, we'll get to the offense and how the Eagles not only struggled in the ways that they have struggled historically this season, but also some new ways. So at least they're keeping it fresh in that sense. But we start with the big deal presented by Cherry Hill Jeep. And I send it over to you now, E.J., the big deal presented by Cherry Hill Jeep, we have some news that the Eagles have unfortunately been visited by the dreaded harlot. the dreaded harlot yes liz oh okay yeah okay i get i get where you're coming from uh yeah so

some injury news this morning uh lane johnson has suffered a liz frank sprain a foot injury uh he left the game yesterday with uh and did not return uh my understanding is it's probably an injury that will land him on injured reserve it's like a four to six week timetable uh this was first reported i should say by Ian Rappaport and Mike Garifolo, and they mentioned that he is still undergoing like a second series of tests for this injury. So, yeah, definitely a big blow to the Eagles offensive line. It's well documented how the Eagles offense has fared without Lane Johnson in the lineup over the years. They've obviously struggled at times without him. So, yeah, I'd expect to see Fred Johnson in the medium term here.

And I don't think that this is something that'll hold lane out for the rest of the year. you know and i say year not necessarily regular season uh playoffs and extended but again like it's the type of thing where uh what's he going to look like when he comes back because obviously he's tough enough that he will try to play through it yeah i mean the schedule is set up in such a way that you know seeing the playoffs lane yeah right don't you think yeah that's that's why i'm very careful to say the year not the regular season here because yeah i think this could be uh you know maybe if they if they lock up the number one seed maybe this is like the the the added benefit of giving him the weak rest going into the divisional round of the

playoff. So we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but I think just talking about the timetable that that's what that's what would make sense to me. Fran, how did Fred look yesterday filling in for Lane? He did a solid job. Yeah, I think going up against, you know, that defensive front, you know, we talk to you, you've got Aidan Hutchinson. They do a lot from a like a pressure standpoint and they'll give you a different funky looks and things like that. And I thought that he held up pretty well. I've always, to me, when I watch Fred Johnson, I think people think, oh, he's really big and he's really powerful. He's long. He's really good in the run game and not as good in past pro.

I've actually always kind of liked him a little bit more in past pro where his length, I think makes him really tough to get around, even though if his technique isn't always great and he doesn't have the light his feet. Sometimes, like his height works against him in the run game. He can play a little bit overextended out over his toes and he throws himself off balance. So he's got really high highs in the run game, but I think his lowest lows actually come in the run game as well, whereas he's of like a steady eddy pass protector what's interesting fran is like a jordan my lota is like clearly very fascinated with fred's like build um like he's he's like talked about it multiple times over the last few years about how he's got like really long legs and is kind of like a little bit

higher than the rest of the guys and i think that does kind of show up sometimes with with his play definitely yeah long-legged high cut i cut all right that'll do it for the big deal presented by Cherry Hill Jeep, Eagles, having to deal with probably the first long-term significant injury of the season for them. And probably good news for A.J. Dillon, who felt like the Grim Reaper, the roster Grim Reaper was coming for him this week. But he survives again. Yeah, we'll see. Congratulations. I actually forgot that he was still on the 53 and the inactives came out yesterday.

I was like AJ and I was like oh but yeah we'll see all right Fran let's get to it let's get to the grabby grabs and the snappy snaps as Vic Fangio has this team set up to have the conversation now where people are discussing is this defense going

to be as good as last year's defense and they had their best performance of the season by EPA per drive against the Lions they had their second best performance of the season by defensive EPA per drive last week against the Packers. So it really does feel like this new version of the team with Jalen Phillips here and Nolan Smith back and Brandon Graham involved and especially in the Kobe Dean playing at the

level that he is all of a sudden this this group is a lead again. Yeah. And they're they're playing fast. They're playing aggressive. We talked about it last night on the post game show. I think when you know, to me what stood out watching it today is when you look at Vic Fangio, he's got like this identity that I think is present with all of like the best coaches and coordinators on across the NFL, across the sport where it's like, all right, we are going to do what we do. We're going to do it really, really well. There are going to be slight and subtle changes and some nuanced things on a week to week basis where, hey, you know what? Last week, we sat here and we talked all about the different front alignments and how they, they've utilized the tilted fronts and they put those

guys up in the line of scrimmage. They did exactly one time yesterday in the game. They did it. They did one time everything else was just pure like four down with two backers you know for the most part i think they played one snap of base two snaps of base the entire day everything else was just like your your basic run-of-the-mill stuff and i'm sure there will be a game and you know maybe it's next week maybe it's three weeks from now where it's like all right we're we're going to change it back up and we're going to go back into those tilted fronts but just saying like this is what we're going to do this is how we are going to uh try and put stress and pressure on opposing quarterbacks or how we're going to try and you know forcing to hold on to the football and we're just going to let our guys

play fast and to me that's one of the things that definitely stood out watching the film so what did it look like his game plan was for this game against the lions and the things that that we know they do well yeah you know i would i brought up on uh on thursday how i was a little surprised that jared goff was being blitzed at the rate that he was over the course of the year he was it was the sixth highest blitz rate amongst all quarterbacks so i was like all right like i wonder if vangio kind of follow suit they really did not blitz all that often now they ran a handful of of exchange pressures, but they did not blitz more than normal than what we've been accustomed to here this year. I think when you look at what their game plan was, it was, hey, you know what,

we are going to try and play coverage. We're going to let our defensive line try and get home. And what they did was they, you're able to kind of keep the, keep those guys on their toes from a protection scheme standpoint. And honestly, you know, I talk about the exchange pressures and how that can put stress on you mentally, not just as a quarterback or as a center, but in terms it's like getting the protection right, but even for offensive tackles. And I'm kicking myself that I didn't see this well off the broadcast copy. I think this would have been a fun conversation to have last night of the post game show. But watching it this morning, that Jalen Phillips sack is a great example of how the exchange pressures,

like that can mess with an offensive tackle and make you think you're seeing something that you're actually not. Lindsay, if you're going to just go to Phillips Sack 1, you know, I can kind of go into what I mean here. because basically what happens here is that off the ball, Jalen Phillips, it looks like he's actually, you can see, he's got attention on Amun Rae St. Brown. Now, this was, so what was the second series of the game? The previous series on second down, Jalen Phillips dropped out. It was an exchange pressure. They sent a linebacker from the other side. Actually, it might have been Cooper Rugeen. I think they set the nickel on that previous one. So it's a four-man rush and Jalen Phillips drops out into the flat. So here on this play, Jalen Phillips, he squares up to Amin-Ros-Saint-Brown.

and Pena Soule, who's charged with blocking Phillips, you could see right away, if you go to the next shot, he gets his eyes inside. He's like, oh, Phillips isn't coming. I'm going to help out the guard here. I've got a rookie on Jalen Carter one-on-one. Let me help the rookie out with Carter. But Phillips isn't dropping.

All he's doing is impacting St. Brown before he gets out into the route. Essentially, it's like chipping an offensive tackle. They did this a couple of times, and they actually did this to Gibbs on the other side as well. Jalick's Hunt, he completely goes out, to impact Jamir Gibbs on his way out into the routes they're like all right you know what you want all these speed guys to it's a release close to the formation we're going to make sure that they they feel us

on their way out into the route and kind of delay the timing there so jalen phillips impacts st brown if you go to the next shot you could see that sewell he gets he's able to get jalen carter on the ground but now jalen phillips has a clear path right to uh to jarred goff and he's able to get him down so uh to me this was a a great example of if you don't run all those different exchange pressures and you're not dropping the edge rushers out all the time. Penny Sewell is going to stay locked in on Jalen Phillips. And maybe he blocks him. Maybe he doesn't.

But Jalen Phillips doesn't come away with a clean sack in that way if you don't run the exchange pressures with the effectiveness that you already do. So I have a few questions about this. Yeah. One is how much of a mistake is this by Sewell? Like is this potentially what he's coached to do when he sees Jalen Phillips potentially try to influence the wide receiver? Is this a bust on his part?

let's start with let's start there it's it's i mean yeah i think it probably goes down as one but it's one of those like uh it's one of those like unforced one it's it's because to me if you're an offensive tackle you are coach like all right if this guy drops out yeah like help help out your guard like look for work you know be aggressive in past protection past protection's not passive all those things that we love to say um but on that one that he he wasn't dropping out and so he he essentially gets fooled i'm sure that the that he would get credited with giving up that sack but uh that's one of those where i'm like yeah i get why soul did what he did and then the second the follow-up here is how special is that from jalen phillips like do you need to be a special athlete at that position to be able to

sell the one thing and then also be able to close with the speed that he closes with yeah it definitely helps if that was jelix hunt like jelix i would think jailx would be able to do the same thing right like if he was given that opportunity as well because jelix has those all the you know has those tools as well which is why vick fan joe was a big fan of jailix hunt coming through the pre-draft process right they search out those guys that have that versatile skill set you have the length you have the strength you have the ability to drop like all those different tools now that flexibility gives you a lot of flexibility schematically viny was very taken with the idea last night that you know jillin philps was really in sewell's head and like you can you could tell throughout the game that he didn't he didn't always know what was coming And so that's certainly part of it.

Yeah, I mean, the clean win that he got on that one fourth down in the in the low red zone. Like it was clean wind, right at the top of the rush. Like he went like long arm, slapped the hands away for Sewell and then was able to rip his way through the corner and flat him. He flattened out, got home, delivered a big hit on the quarterback. It was a great rush. I've talked just going back and watching him this year when they initially made the trade for him. Like how well he tempos his rushes where basically like if he comes off the ball, you're at Pena Soule, I don't know if he's winning with speed.

I don't know if he's winning with power. I don't know if he's setting up an inside spin move. Like he's just, he makes everything look the same. And that's a really good trait to have as a Russia. E.J., has this, has another week of this from Jalen Phillips changed your opinion on the possibility of him staying? Oh, I thought you were about to like try and like dunk on me for a previous Jailen Phillips' sake. And I was like, I don't think I've said anything negative about that. I'm not here to dunk?

I mean, well, I think it's also not here to dunk. I don't, I'll never believe that. I think especially when you consider like Nolan Smith seems like he might be on like a pitch count right now. I think he played, was it, 23 snaps last night. So I do think it's interesting, especially to kind of gauge that for the rest of the season to see how Nolan Smith kind of comes back from the injury. And, you know, just the fact that Jalen Phillips has immediately made an impact. I mean, it's just like listening to you guys talk about like how much of an impact Jalen Phillips had, Like, you know, how well he played against Penny Sewell.

It's like, Penny Sewell, when I think of Penny Sewell, I think of the fact that he's, you know, consistently, like, beaten out Elaine Johnson for the all pro teams the last few years. You know, the fact that like a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the Siegel's edge rusher group, you know, not making an impact at all. And now we're talking about them against two really good tackles, you know, wrecking a game really does kind of show how far they came in a short period of time. So I don't know. I think that the Phillips extension talk is interesting. I think there's a chance, especially with the way he's part. right now i also think coupled with what we're seeing from nolan smith i think that i think that matters yeah uh all right let's get to let's get to a little change up that vick made on the i guess let's

take a break first then we'll come back and and go to a change up that vick made on the back end here fran and then also giling carter's big performance to cobi dean all that good stuff coming up after this bet three six five has 90 million users worldwide worldwide, and they live stream over 780,000 events each year with early payout offers across the NBA and NHL, Bet365 Pioneer live end game betting. And today they offer the widest range of games and markets available for live in game betting across every sport. Monday night football tonight.

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has a gambling problem and wants help call 1-800 gamble so Justin Fields invites me over to his place over the weekend to watch the Texas game and you know I was excited

to go over there see maybe what his film set up was like and I got to tell you guys his setup was a total mess it's no wonder that guy got benched lagging buffering

and switching between hats trying to find the game he claimed he was a big fan but I feel like I had been a fan see if you call yourself a football fan you have to have xfinity it's the ultimate sports destination i can find the best games and my favorite teams all in one place and the way that i watch is next level it's the perfect fan flex i've got all the action right in my living room plus xfinity's best picture and sound with enhanced 4k so clear it feels like i'm in the stadium

sometimes i've got four games going on at once because why not on top of that i get real-time notifications and live stats right on my tv it's the best seat in the house every time time next game day make sure that big fan isn't a big fail learn more at xfinity.com exfinity imagine that restrictions apply multi-view requires xfinity 4k capable tv box back on the phton y eagles podcast just to close a loop on how much they blitzed fran in this game according to true media 15% of a time on the dropbacks they blitz which is just right in the middle of them on the season for yeah and if you were to stack them by games also much less man than in this game.

I think eighth of the 10 games if you stack it. So a heavy zone. And part of that is what you saw on the back end with Adorea Jackson. Yeah. And this is this just goes to, this is like another thing where, you know, tip of the cap to Vic Fangio,

right? Because they're constantly kind of changing things up. And this to me was a really good example. That PbU that Adore Jackson had late in the game, third and 10 against Alain Ross St. Brown. Lindsay, let's go to Adore 1, where again, basically when the Eagles have

one of their go-to cover-coverses is cover six and we've broken this down numerous times in the show but basically with cover six it's a it's a version of quarters but you're basically playing quarters coverage to one side and cover two to the other side and typically the last year they kind of split it 50-50

with who they rolled the safety over top of between Quinnian Mitchell and Darius Slay more often than not this year they have rolled the safety which you can see at the top of the screen where the safety is going to roll over the top of a door Jackson. So Adori Jackson is going to play as a cover two corner. He's going to play as like an underneath zone. You're going to get the safety rolled over top of him to that side. So now he's

got a little bit of safety help over the top. The safety on the opposite side, that's Reed Blanketship here. He's going to have eyes for whoever the most dangerous receiver is that comes into his area. And that leaves Quinnian Mitchell, who's circled at the bottom. He's one-on-one. So he's essentially playing like single mono-e-mano coverage, essentially man-to-man. So that's the way that they've played this. And most of the time, that's how they play. When they play cover six, that's the way they do it now every once in a while they do change it up but what this will look like if you are if you're the offense and you're trying to attack this ej you and i were talking about this last week uh you asked about um you know hey like they were constantly rolling coverage uh to a j brown side

like well what can they do well let's let's take a look uh if you go to the next shot lindsay uh basically when again we're going to focus on the cover two side you're rolling the safety over to that way and they're playing cover two you've got one receiver or one db underneath you've got one db over top there's going to be a soft spot in that zone coverage. And Lindsay, if you go to the next shot, you're going to see that there's that there's that soft spot, that that turkey hole right in between the deep safety and the cloud corner. And here,

I think Detroit is anticipating, all right, we're going to get cover six on this play. We're going to get cover two to the, to the field side. So we're going to have Amirae St. Brown. He's going to settle in underneath the safety over top of the corner.

And Jared Goff, you're going to layer this over the corner. And hopefully we're going to the four first down here. So they're running a route that's designed to attack one of the soft spots in coverage. But if you go to the next shot, you can see that we're actually not doing this. Instead, they are rolling coverage to Quinyan side. So Quinyon is actually playing with the cover two technique. Reed Blanketship is rotating over Quinyon Mitchell's side. So now, if you're Alman Rahsaam Brown, you're not running a route against cover two. Now you're running

a route in solo ISO one-on-one coverage against the Dori Jackson, which you would probably still take, like you're taking that. But it's a different look and it's a different feel than what you were expecting coming in pre-snap so now if we go to the next shot adore plays this perfectly like he he doesn't he doesn't have to hold up one-on-one for 40 reps in a game but hey you know what there's going to be two or three plays on any given game where we need you to do it and you might get targeted on that play he matches this route perfectly from mama ral st brown you could see that he so he makes the he makes the break the same time he does and one final shot he's there at the catch point and is able to get the pb u on third and ten and the eagles get off the field forcing a punt this is

just to me, like, high leverage moment, let's throw something at the offense that they weren't expecting. We've been doing cover six a lot. We play cover six a lot. We play it more than basically anybody in football more often than not when we do. We're rolling the coverage, you know, the opposite way. We're rolling it over top of Adori Jackson, and here they changed it up. Surviving, E.J. Yeah, I was, I was going to say, like, I just want to reiterate here. Like, he, Adori Jackson has, I mean, most cornerbacks that you, you talk to in the NFL have, like, a confidence about them but his like confidence definitely seems like it comes from like a good perspective on life especially life in the NFL as a cornerback who has been through ups and

downs and it's just like very matter of fact when you hear him talk about the way that the season is gone it just seems like his confidence really never like was shaken even though he struggled so I don't know it's it's an important trait to have it probably is informative on like how he's lasted in the NFL so long and yeah Vic Fangio said it earlier last week like you know he's a survivor, you don't stick in the NFL as long as the Dory Jackson has without having something about you, probably both physically and mentally. So yeah, no, it was definitely an impressive play by him and, you know, probably shows like what he, how he's been able to navigate this season. Yeah, and I think if you think about what his weaknesses have been this

year, I mean, he hasn't, he hasn't cut and beat over the top that much. Yeah, that's the thing about you can run past him like in the open field, as which we saw from Jameson Williams. Now, that's also Jamison Williams, who can run away from everybody. And there has certainly been like a lack of physicality that has shown up at times with the Dory Jackson that has been glaring. But listen, his job is now made easier by the fact that the pass rush is so much better. And if he can do this, I mean, this is the word where I wouldn't even go C's get degrees here, EJ.

I think this was like a B minus. I was going to say, yeah, it wasn't a C performance. I mean, and he was quick to talk about the pressure and how that really changes things. All those guys, all the defensive backs. We're quick to talk about how important the defensive front was in what they were able to do on the back end. I mean, it changes to complexion for a guy like a Dory Jackson, for sure. All right, Fran. Let's get to the big fella in the middle, Jalen Carter, who had a nice primetime performance and in front of a national audience.

Reeked some havoc on Jared Gough. No, no sacks still, still sitting on one for the season, but definitely, why is that a smile? there was a on the jalen philip sack um that we showed earlier yeah my favorite moments from watching the tape from the this morning was jalen the guy jalen like gets physically he like goes like this and he's like worried and at first i'm like oh is he worried because there was a flag thrown i was like but there's nothing i don't think there's anything there that he would have been worried about the flag on uh i think he was like he realized like oh i didn't get the sack because he actually had goth as phillips was coming in so i think it was like oh i can't believe i missed the sack

it was a very funny reaction that's funny uh all right well let's let's get to what you saw from jalen carter yeah you know it's funny because on the broadcast uh chris there was a play where chris collinsworth points out he's like oh like jlin carter was confused and he's looking back like looking for the call uh like this guy he's got no idea what's going on that's confused i didn't want to mess that up i just want to let you let you go to see how long you'd go um there were a few plays where carter is like pointing out like hey play the place coming into this gap this is where the run is where the run is the the first one was or the first one happened in the early in the second quarter the most notable one was the first fourth down stop so uh lindsay let's go to

the uh ojimo ojamo fourth down one um where and we talked about this i think you want to bring this back a few we go to the the first one lindsay so uh there was a this was a play where we talked about like Brandon Graham, he kind of like loops inside and he, I'm like, oh, like, I wonder why he did that. Well, in the, we have some insight on this in the Brandon Graham interview. So go ahead. Yeah, well, I'm excited to hear BG talk about it because Jalen Carter kind of points and says, all right, this is where, you know, this is where this is where this play is coming. And, but what you'll then see, Julie, if you go to the next shot, or Lindsay, if you go to the next shot here, you're going to see that, uh, Zach Bond and BG kind of communicate, hey, this is

where the we i need you to kick inside and now if you look at bg who's on the left hash mark he's starting to loop inside over top of ojimo and that's because carter pointed out hey the run's coming this way bond went down and said bg go ahead kick inside bg comes in and kicks inside and if you go to the next shot he stands up uh coyote awashika here the the left guard stands him up creates traffic now where jemir gives is basically going to run into a wall he's starting to brace for contact a little bit earlier than he would have and now if you go to the last the next shot ojamo who is on st brown and again the reason why he's on st brown is because when jalen carter says this is the this is the gap the runs hitting in this is the play that they're calling they kind of adjust the front a little bit

where ojamo says all right well if they want to double me here i'm going to slide out a little bit on this side so now they're not going to be able to double me i'm going to quickly shed the the offensive tackle and now i'm taking on a receiver instead that adjustment happens because they know what the play is right so this all kind of kind of is it all kind of, you know, accumulates to this one play now, or this one moment now where now Ojimo gets one on one against the receiver and he's able to get into the backfield and make a play. But that all starts with Jalen Carter calling the play out before the snap. Right. So instead of what looked like on the broadcast where Carter's like looking around

and doesn't know what's going on and is like asking for a call, you're saying instead he's telling them where the call is going, where the, where the Lions call is going. And what BG says, which we can get to in a bit, is that we have part of that was. Bond then telling him pre-snap, okay, you're going to come in, you are going to loop inside because I thought on the broadcast, that maybe this was BG, just freelancing, knowing exactly what was coming.

He says this is, this is Bond calling it out his little game with Morrow, and you know, that's great communication. And it also speaks to a larger thing, which is that it's hard to disentangle the coaching here versus them having a bunch of guys who are just very smart football players. Yep. We talked about this with Jalen Carter,

his rookie year that was something that stood out with him in Georgia was that I'd watch him and you could see like all right he he's not just like making things up as he goes this is not a guy that's just getting by on physical ability he he recognizes blocking schemes he's able to he's able to see things before they happen and he's able to make guys miss you know in that way and so this is something that has showed up time and time again with him so far in his NFL career this was a great example and I don't know if like did Carter communicate that to bond who communicated that to BG or did he and bond both see it and feel it at the same time and then either way like you see the communication happen bond talking to bg and then bg looping in uh it was awesome and again like that was

the the second time it happened in like a five play stretch uh lindsay if you go to the carter run stop one uh there was another play where again you can literally see like jane's just pointing like hey it's coming to the a gap here this is third and eight and now they're in plus territory we know about the wind and the you know in the uh you know the weather you know playing a factor here but it's third and eight like this is not like a definite all like rundown this is not the um the zach bond miced up uh laughing at jehad campbell for calling out run on first and 10 uh you know this is this is a great call here from jalen carter where he's like hey like runs coming this way and if you go to the next shot you guys i mean

the the the eagles build everybody's flying downhill now i think it was a third and eight and they had a blitz call uh i think they had a cross dog pressure here where both the koby dean and zach bonn are flying downhill but jordan davis plays this perfectly he's got his eyes inside and jalen he understands hey like you know I've got all these guys coming into the A gap. I'm going to essentially two gap, this offensive lineman, but I'm going to cheat this a little bit outside because if the running back does bounce, I'm going to be here to make this play.

And if you go to the last shot, you see that's exactly what he does. He's able to get off the block and make the play. So Jalen Carter starts that playoff, pointing exactly where the run's going to hit on third and eight, and then makes the run stop and forces them to punt from plus territory. I think there's some signs of growth here from Zach Bond because I talked to him last week about Morrow Adjomo,

like pointing out the inside zone and he actually seemed like you mentioned the uh the miced up clip where he was kind of laughing at jihad campbell for saying it's past and he's like it's third down dummy uh like Zach Bond seemed like almost annoyed with like some of his teammates like calling out obvious plays like we we all knew that that was going to happen like why are you saying it but I do think you know I bow mentioned this earlier like late last week like sometimes like you saw that little bit of like a seat of doubt in the in the opponent when you call those things out so I'm going to have to revisit this with Zach Bond see if he's come around on some of the pre-snap callouts.

Zach Bond may make an appearance in this episode. You never know. Oh, I like that tease. Okay, that's there for Jalen Carter. Now, how about Nacobie Dean, Fran, who, I mean, it's crazy. This, to me, is like the most surprising development of the season. It's not Nacobo Bedeen playing at a high level, but coming back from that injury and playing better than he ever has before.

And even in the ways in which he was limited from our eyes, just athletically. I mean, he's running with Jemir Gibbs and Jameson Williams in this game. He, uh, on the, the wheel route to Gibbs. So there was like a, um, there was like a, an eight play stretch in the film where they were like, we're going after Nukobi. We're going to test the Kobe here. There was one where they was a pony set and they had Gibbs running a shallow cross, uh, getting matched up with the Kobe Dean. And the Kobe was lucky because it was an awful play action fake. And he let he let Gibbs cross his face and Gibbs is probably still running. and it was actually put it right on i mean gibbs dropped it i don't know if you guys remember there

was a gibbs dropped it right in the middle of the field uh so it's like all right like dodged one then the second one happens and it's the wheel route and it was really funny uh because that was the that was the third down rep and i remember watching the broadcast last night uh it goes to nikobi on the bench afterwards and he's talking to one of his teammates and he's like yeah i was like running like this and i just just trying to swat his hands down to make sure it was it was very funny because you could see him on film he's hanging off for dear life i mean he he attacked it perfectly like took the perfect angle he did just enough right be like in position to defend that route he did it perfectly against the guy who's athletically superior in jameer gibbs and then uh the third one happened a

few on the next drive they sent i'm on ross st brown to him and this one was a little bit because that was what i'm watching i'm like out like macuba should have been there to help to help pick him up i see why macuba fell off though because macuba's reading jared goff jarred got starts like he's going to throw to st brown and then gets his eyes to the back side so macuba gets off and he's like, all right, I'm going to go and get into the middle of the field here. I think McCuba was right in doing that, but then the pressure forced Goff off a spot. You may remember when he tries to throw to get to St. Brown against Nicobie Dean, Dean was in perfect position, but Goff got pushed off a spot by pressure.

So I was like, all right, I see why McCuba did what he did there on that play. But those guys, from a coverage standpoint, like it looked like last year. There were a lot of really good passoffs and just like subtle adjustments and guys just just out executing the opposition. It was a really impressive night from that entire defense. And just from a usage standpoint, we should say that it was no longer close to 50-50. Nicobi played about two-thirds of the snaps. Jahad Campbell played about a third of them.

And we didn't see a lot of that three-linebacker base in this game. No. And listen, the way that Nicopi is playing, you can't argue with it. You might even say he should be on the field more. However, Fran, part of the concern with this is that what is this? situation going to do for Jahad Campbell's player development both mentally and just from

a volume of rep standpoint what did you see from him when Jahad was on the field? Yeah so it was we saw Jahad for the first time on the fourth series so they I think what they were doing was all right we're going to go three series at a time and it'll be almost it was like a three to one type of situation

right and like you said there was only two snaps of base there were they were back to back on both of those Jahad Campbell was the outside linebacker down on the line of scrimmage. So a reason to think that that might continue, at least for as long as Nolan Smith is on the pitch count that he's on from a defensive standpoint.

I don't know if I'm like hunting it up. I'm seeing what I want to see. It felt like Jahad was kind of pressing a little bit. It was a little bit frenetic. He was playing very fast on those first couple, or his first two reps of the game. Again, they happen. Yeah, it's going to be very difficult.

Yeah, it's tough, you know, because I'm sure in his mind, he's like, man, like, I'm losing time. I want to go make a play. I want to stand out for my teammates like I want to be so he's he's he's you see him like chatter in his feet and just he just he just looked he looked frenetic it wasn't bad it's not like he was out of position but yeah I thought he was playing like noticeably faster in a not in a good way last night so it's tough man like I I think I'm I think I am now past the point of all right what does this do for jihad campbell Nikobie's got to play Nikobie's the better player right now and with the way this offense is playing you need to this defense to be hitting on all cylinders and if that defense is hitting on all cylinders 17s in the middle of the field so i think that to me like it's a no-brainer now that i feel like it should stay at least at what this rotation is um i don't know what they're going to do in the spring man like they can they can't they can't they can't because i'm looking at i'm like you got to pay

jalen carter quinyon mitchell cooper de jean jane jillin the in the in the discussion you have jordan davis you have more ojamo coming down the pipe you have uh re-blanketship in a contract here like you have all these guys on defense that you've got to take care of you paid Zach Bonn and set the market with him and he traded up to take Jahad Campbell like I I don't see unless the only thing would be if you are moving Jahad Campbell full time to edge rusher that would be the only way to get around it but that would go against how the defensive coordinator has said that he views the player let me ask you let me ask you this really quick friend what what like is is the Kobe Dean playing as at the level of a top five top 10 top 10 top

top 15 linebacker like where are you at with that ranking he's playing really really well like he's he's playing extremely well i do think that we can get a little bit out over our skis and saying like oh like you know the eagles have three three guys playing like top 10 linebackers like you know i'm not saying that we say but you don't mean like the collective we um he's playing extremely well he's playing at a pro bowl level and maybe maybe you could say like right now especially for the last two games like he's playing at like at all pro level he's having he has physical limitations that he's never going to like be able to overcome um but man like he's playing extremely well he's just extremely well it's hard because it's like if he's playing at that level

he is a drafted and developed player by the eagles like there are examples like you know milton williams is a very recent example of a player the eagles drafted and developed that got to a really high level of play you know some some would say the guy who replaced him is is qualified to replace him in that spot but you know just like it's hard because eagles don't usually let those guys walk but i agree with you it's hard to it's also hard to figure out how they could fit all three of these guys into their long-term plans yes the the other thing though that we have to like they have to be clear-eyed about with the kobe is he has a real long injury history yeah he has never played a full season as a starter right and so like he's he's got to make it through the end of this year

first of all and then and then you can you can assess after that but yeah it's it's It is a, it is a, it is a difficult thing to imagine them being able to do. But I mean, this, I guess, I guess this is one of those nice problems to have. Still a problem. All right. Let's take our second break. And then on the other side, we will go to Brandon Graham, joining us from the Novacare Complex. Black Friday starts right now at Ashley, door-busting deals unbeatable,

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So why drink the fake stuff? Cricket tea, the only thing better is a strip sack in the Super Bowl. Visit crooked tea.com to find a store near you. All right, let's do it now. Let's hear from Brandon Graham on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. Welcome back to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. Who do we have now? But the man himself, Brandon Graham, a day after his home debut, B.G. How you feeling? Man, I'm feeling good, feeling good.

You know, got a nice little win yesterday. Took everybody. And, man, I was just so hype that we went out there and got the dub late night. It was a late night for sure. I know. I think we're all feeling it. And we will get to, I think, some of the interesting things that happened this week on blocked, which will be out on Thursday.

I want to know what it was like to come out of the tunnel. But I want to start real football stuff in the weeds, that fourth down stop that you were on the field for, where you peel off and go towards the middle. Take us through that play, what you saw, what you did. Well, it was a blitz, a blitz song, and I was the dropper. But I knew Morrow was stunting outside while I go inside. And so when the guard couldn't find who to get once Morrow went outside,

he ended up being on the tackle. I ended up being on the guard, and I just pressed because I seen, we just switched spots pretty much. And I ended up pressing the guard, and Morrow was right there to wrap. his legs up and then Gibbs end up hitting off the guards back and just fell straight down. I ain't know if we got

it or not. I mean, I ain't know if they got it or not. I just was just doing my job and then giving all the strength I could to press the guard back. That play looked so cool because you guys are kind of frenetic pre-snap almost like you didn't know exactly what to do. And then as

it happens, it seemed like a very veteran move to me where you read exactly what was coming right away and you sort of peeled off to go to go in the middle that's like that's what you're there for yeah it's just it was just communication last minute by zach barn because he was telling me like a call to switch off he was going to take my guy and i was going to take the guy in the middle you know because i told you i was dropping so i end up just folding that's what we call the fold where you fold back inside to get on your number three because uh when he took my number two i was like okay we switched responsibilities pretty much and uh and so that's where it went and it was a perfect call by Zach, perfect call by Vic, on what he was calling for the fourth down, and we all just kind of played off each other, and we ended up making a play together.

That's really interesting, because that explains why there was kind of the Yeah, he was just telling me our call on like when we switched, and I was just like, okay, okay, so that's why I stuck, I went inside a little bit, because I knew I had to worry about staying outside just in case if

it was a pass. And so that's why I went inside, and it was just perfect call. Zach Baum, you know, credit to him getting that call to me and me and mo just did our job on that play so i want to ask you about the batted passes which we saw a bunch last night jd had three of them jeline carter had two of them how much was that an emphasis in the week leading up in terms of the plan it was happening all in practice all week those guys they practiced that all the time like if the rush they get double team a lot and when you get double team and you can't press it it's like you

press as hard as you can press, and then you just get your hands up so the quarterback, so you can affect the throw in any way. And it just so happened that they was doing it in practice, and it showed up big in the game, and during domes where it can be deflating. It can be deflating for quarterbacks, and now you're looking out for their hands, and then you try to throw over them, and sometimes it might not give you that step-up, throw that you want to have, because now you're worried about the step-up and on top of that hands in the face.

for hands in air. And was that something that Vic made sure to emphasize this week, that Goff, like, has a particular arm slot where that is, that is possible? No, it wasn't nothing like that. Those guys just practicing that all the time. Those guys just practicing that all the time. They always jumping up trying to smack the ball down, even when before it was emphasized, like how it,

it's going to be probably emphasized even more now. What were the points of emphasis from Vic in the, in the game plan this week? The points of emphasis was just making sure we were physical, making sure that we didn't have MA's missed assignments to make sure that we go out there and play as a team because we knew Gibbs was, Gibbs and five,

both of them. And we knew how them boys operated. And we had to make sure that we, they got a good offense, man, a really good team. And we just wanted to make sure that we stopped the run because we knew we couldn't get as you could see Gibbs, man, we was hustling to that ball because

Zach Bond, as Zach Bonn on the one didn't come on the back side, that boy was going to pull away from everybody because there wasn't nobody there to stop him. But I just say I give the credit for, man, it was effort involved with everybody. And Zach was just a guy that I could remember that it could have, it changed.

It got down to fourth down, and then we ended up stopping them right there. All those big fourth downs that we stopped them, it was because people hustling because they was moving the ball. They're going to make plays too. But we went out there and finished the drive. And when they wanted to go for it,

instead of taking the points, we ended up, you know, getting off the field. and that's all you want as a defense. You want it on your back. And we put it on our backs yesterday and we stayed together during the adversity. Five fourth down stops in this game for you guys. That is, that is unprecedented.

Five bet it. Five betty balls. Crazy. Awesome stuff from the defense. People are already saying after these last two games now that you are back and Nolan is back and Jalen Phillips is back and Nekobie is back playing at this level, does this defense have a chance to be as good if not better

than last year's defense, where do you fall on that? Well, what I say is last year was last year. We worked. That was the journey, and now this is our new journey. We just got to make sure that we stay focused. Don't get too high and too low about, you know, what we're doing. Right now, it was great to have a team effort yesterday because the offense made plays where they needed to. And then we went out there and we put some fires out when we know,

hey, it could have easily went another way if we did. So as long as we stay together, keep building, I think that's a good makeup of a defense and the details, the details of what coaches preaching every week and how he's calling the game and knowing exactly why he's doing what he's doing. As long as we all stay on the

same page, I don't see it being bad at all for us on defense. And we can't worry about what the offense do, but it's about us putting out fires and making sure that we stop and putting the offense in a great position. And it don't matter. Like, we just, we put it on us. And so, yes, I do feel like we could, we could build to where

we're trying to go and right now it's been really good with that that type of defense we play yesterday two more quick ones for you uh anybody else on defense who you think deserves a shout out here that that maybe we haven't talked about yet uh you know what if i if i could see who who already got the shot look at that boy look at that boy we're talking about that boy right that boy Zach Barr i told you man like he was the one backside jameer gives man that was a big play and even with us you know you already know what what i was saying it's like man good communication man and it's just it's love man everybody feeling good right now all right last thing for you we will i'm sure we will talk about this on unblocked this week but you get announced to the

crowd first time since being back before the game coming out the tunnel how did that feel oh man it was a great warm welcome and it was against uh detroit too back by people back at home so yeah it was a great, great welcome, welcome back, and we're so excited that we went out there and had a hard-fong game, if not the best defensive performance I've been a part of in a minute. And, man, just try to make sure that we continue this street, continue this drive, because, man, I feel like everybody right now is competing, going out there, playing together, and just just trying to keep sharp and iron, keep sharp at iron. We all here, just making sure that we, we just we're putting it on our back as a defense and we can't worry about nothing else other than just

staying together in them hard moments and man it was a great testament to what it would look like last night as long as we stay right there we're going to be all right hey inside baseball thing before you came back because this was the Detroit game was this the game that you were going to be the honorary captain for the Eagles since it was Detroit oh yeah yeah yeah this was going to be the one okay but it's all good I felt like that the the introduction at the end was real cool and it was nice and man I just felt like we just we put up a good a good show on yesterday and man I'm proud of the boys all right great stuff BG we will talk to you on Anthony's show tomorrow morning and then of course unblocked Thursday morning at 8 o'clock

thank you so much BG good luck this week yeah I appreciate you see you soon all right back with more on the other side here on the PHLY Eagles podcast if the cold air is sneaking in the heat is not cranking like it should. Don't you worry your pretty little head because Ace Hardware Home Services has got you covered. From heating repairs to water heaters, plumbing and electrical, their trusted local

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does this defense compare it to last year's defense stylistically how are they different for and do you think they can be as good when it counts as last year's group i mean you know that's such a high yeah what with what they did in the last two games of last year against against washington in the title game and then in the super bowl i don't know if you can reach quite that bar but it's a great it's a really good group and i think if you if you continue to play this way uh if you stay healthy and in all the right spots they they absolutely can be a unit that you can you can ride their coattails to postseason success e j it is it is a different style this this defense right now is is more front to back than last year's no doubt yeah i mean i

but i i still think like they have that that capability of being the back to front defense but you're right like with the way that the defensive front has played against really high level competition i'm with fran i think that this is uh this is a formula that they're can follow should they follow it should it be should they be in the state i think we're going to have a discussion about that but i do think like i don't know it's like the especially now that they are you know in the driver's seat to get the number one seat it's hard to envision uh a lot of teams being able to beat the beat them and get you know a lot of points against this defense uh at the link so uh yeah i think it's i think it is more sustainable than maybe we thought a couple weeks ago

And I really liked your framing from the postgame show last night about how this defense has kind of been Howie and Vic inching towards each other. Howie being like, all right, fine. I'm going to pay a linebacker for you. I'll even draft one. And then Vic been like, all right, get me a corner. And Howie's like, you know what? I'm not going to get you a corner. I'm going to get you a pass rusher instead.

Yeah. And Vic is like one of the more like, I mean, maybe it's just because I've covered Jim Schwartz and like it's the exact opposite where Vic is so apathetic about the edge. trustures, especially the rotation. He's like, eh, we only need three of those guys. Like, you know, they'll play the whole game. It's not a big deal. And now he's got like Jalen Phillips and, you know, Nolan Smith and Jalick's Hunt all playing at a high level. And it's just, yeah, it's, it's, it does feel like a perfect marriage between two different philosophies on how to build a defense kind of converging. And listen, I mean, it also helps when you have, if Fred doesn't like my analogy here. No, it's like. No, he's laughing at the comment. CDP. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's

a callback to the opening remarks at the Ospreys. I see it now, too. I shouldn't have looked. But yeah, no, it is, it helps that they've drafted well in the secondary, but it is a philosophical, yeah, marriage that is working quite well for them right now. And for what it's worth, Howie Roseman, you're welcome. I mean, if he had not listened to me sounding the alarm bells that this defense was not good, enough and went into the trade deadline to rectify that situation, thereby turning them into

one of the best defenses in football. We would not be here talking about this defense right now. Hey, Bill, how has Queenionette Mitchell look the last couple of weeks? Have you been, have you been worried? Are you concerned about Quinnian Mitchell? You are, you were conflating two different things. I never said I'm worried about Quinnian Mitchell. I said he had a bad game. You, you were kind of crushing him for slipping once. Again, it wasn't. Again, This is not your, this is, this is, this is, you're supposed to be, you were supposed to be a journalist. You are, these are, this is not accurate retelling of the facts. It is.

You and I, you, you, you, well, maybe we'll have to roll the tape on a couple of things throughout. I did say he slipped, but that was one of several plays in that game. Don't slip. That's what, I remember it, because I couldn't believe that the audacity of the argument. And, and yes, the chat is right. Quinn, on, you're welcome. All right, that'll do it for the future is bright for the Eagles defense presented by our friends at Shady Ray's. Fran, should we talk about the offense, or would you rather just go to sleep?

Yeah, let's talk about the offense. Okay. Their worst performance of the season by EPA Drive. It's funny that a week after having their best defensive performance and worst offensive performance, they somehow outdid both of them in this game. I don't know You know Should we start a run game? Okay, let's start with the run game

You were just procrastinating this You're just sorry We're not going to get for Bovertime Are you waiting for Are you being cursed? Yeah, I was just about to say He's saving it for Bovertime so that he can curse

I respect it All right, tell me about the running game He was a very, as we as we realized on the post game show a very quiet 26 carries for Seguan and Barclay. Yeah. And honestly, as I'm watching, I'm like, all right, like, yeah, this went wrong, that went

wrong. Like, you know, there weren't like the big explosives, as we know. But I'm like, all right, like, it was second and eight, and they ran it, and they got five. All right. Like, that's a successful play. And that's why I texted you earlier. As I was going through the film, I was like early fourth quarter. I was like, I'll be interested to see what the success rate was on early downs running the

football and it was their second best of the year like they they they did a solid job being able to run the football in this game it was not again you weren't they weren't getting the explosives out of it which that's a separate problem um and you know something we could talk about in relative to the past game but i think that when you're looking at it like yes they they want to be a running team they are not the explosive running team that they were last year and not even close to it and so will they be able to mask their inefficiencies as a passing offense, is this run game going to be enough? I don't know that it will be, but time will tell.

I mean, there were no explosives out of the run game. That's a part of it. So they're getting kind of like the yeoman's, you know, carries. But it did not reflect in, you know, on third down in this game, they were it was like a 37% success rate which is not good considering so if you would you would think if you're doing better on first and second down it would lead to doing better on third down yep that's never that's never really been the case for this game they can't use that excuse this game they can't use field position like oh you know they were backed up and so we could be nope can't

say that this week um i'll be interested to see what they do lean on uh because the past game was was not a fun watch now was it not a fun watch now was it not a fun watch well what was less fun about it the the execution or the design uh equally not fun sir honestly like it was that was a i i i don't want to say like i was texting with people this morning i don't want to just you know put people on blast and say who was saying that but it was like yeah that was a tough watch that's a tough watch everybody kind of like universally like it's a it's a difficult unit to watch right now and it's a it's a difficult unit to watch right now and it brings things into the question of like, why are they playing this way?

Because you have to go with the assumption that, you know, you've got a coaching staff. You know, Nick Siriani has been a part of good offenses, good passing games. Kevin Petulow has been a part of good passing games. They both have been here when this passing game has been successful and a bit like, but we've taught we've had these same conversations for years about the past game and some of the pitfalls from it and some of the downfalls with it. and it's a consistent theme. And I always come back to, like, you know, one of the lines we've had said on this show numerous times over the years, like this past game looks the way Jalen Hertz wants it to look.

It's concerning. It's concerning. How would you describe, like, let's take a step back. Like, you know, you're talking about the way the passing game looks. Like, how would you describe where the Eagles passing game is at conceptually right now? Describe it in overtime. so now you can be you can be real too like you know no holds barred for fran right now i mean look i'll always i'm never going to go i'm never going to go nuts but um what i would

say is that the eagles pass game right now especially the drop back pass game not the under center play action stuff like the not the r pos like kind of like take those out take the RPOs out and just say like pure drop back pass is about like as rudimentary as it gets like you know the old Todd Bowles like high school cover three stuff like that's the equivalent right like it is it is so basic uh it is like the it's all hitches and it's double slants and it's stick and it's like basic like day one install like this is the way you want to play this is the we're going to go out and just go we're going to out execute that that's the way that they are calling the game and you would look at that in the year 2025 in the

NFL and say why are you playing this way and is it purely bad coaching my guess is there there are enough voices in the room to say like yeah we probably shouldn't play this way guys like you know that should be the case um so is it you know is some kind of dynamic with the quarterback is this the way that that jalen hurts wants to like i don't know all i can do is just go off of what we're seeing on tape and what we've seen on tape throughout the court throughout years i mean we've been even when this passing game has been like good and productive it's been like outside fades it's been like it's like all like these are low probability type of plays or all right now the if we're going to get into like high probability stuff it's going to be rPO's like oh they just

the the the identity of the past game uh is such that what i'm looking at it it's like yeah like all right this guy's not open this guy's not open like and you can look at it's like all right well where's Jalen's supposed to go with the ball here. It's frustrating and it's tough to look at and it's tough to trying to disentangle. But we've said it for, we've been saying it for years and that's why, like, it might be that Kevin Petulow might be at fault. But Kevin Petullo hasn't been the offensive coordinator since 2021. Like these are the things that we've talked about for the last few years.

Now, here's a bit of a cherry pick to underscore that. You go to true media and you just go shotgun, no play action. not a turnover because we know that their goal is to not turn the ball over. So, okay, we'll give them a little credit for not turning the ball over. Just a straight drop-back pass. They are the fourth worst defense or fourth-worst offense in football by success rate. Only ahead of the Titans, the Browns, and the Broncos. I mean, you're talking behind, you know, the Panthers, behind the Jets, behind the Raiders.

like with with a j with j brown dante smith dallas goddard sayquan barkley and that offensive line i get really quick i just want to ask you like how different did the passing game look compared to the way it looked in green bay like was this a response to i mean we talked about the green bay game not being like jalen's cleanest game do you think it was a response to the way that he played in that game that they sort of said like let's strip this down make this you know go back to the core concepts. Do you think that is what's at foot here? Or do you think that the games are similar?

Potentially. I think that when you're looking at why a coaching staff would say like, all right, like, why are we doing this? You know, to me, like, this was a, this was what a game plan looks like when you're starting a rookie quarterback that has never played before. Like, that's the way that that game plan was constructed from a past game. Again, like the pure, like, drop back past game standpoint. It's a lot of, you know, let's take a look at a few.

And we can, I can kind of show you some of the things that I'm talking about. First, third and long, I think it was third and 12. And it ends up being a scramble for one yard for Jalen Hertz. Essentially it was a sack. It's a sack that he fell forward for him. So this is a sack. Yeah, you were all huffy about on the text. Well, because I might have been, you know, looking for negative plays there.

I know, from a super standpoint. All right. So sack scramble one. basically what you're going to get here is the epitome of like iso ball where you've got one route that's past the sticks and that's going to be devante smith at the top of the screen he's running a deep curl but you've got three curl routes and you got two guys to the flat so when you play when you're playing this way this is essentially like jalen hit the top of your drop and get the ball out fast like pick your match up get the ball out um and what you're going to see on this play if we go to the next shot here

Lindsey is Jalen's going to drop back and he wants Devonte Smith. It's the only route that's past the sticks. And so Devante gets held up mid route. He gets rerouted a little bit and that's going to throw the timing off. So when Jalen hits the top of his drop, let's take a look one more. Let's look at the next shot. Jalen hits the top of his drop and he's just now looking over to to AJ. And you can look at the top right on the 50, right on the zero on the 50 at the top of the screen divante is not turned around yet he gets held up by that reroute a j's open now if jalen had gotten off devante faster now he's working back to his way across the field he gets the ball to a j now a jay's going to get tackled short but it's going to be fourth and five you know for you know maybe

you're that's a go for it situation in that kind of situation maybe a j makes the um forces of mistackle what have you but jay since jalen was late to get there the ball doesn't come out so let's go to the next shot and when jalen now he drops his eyes he's trying to buy time protection's outstanding he now looks back over to devante and this is what i saw in the broadcast i texted you guys right away i was like oh devante was wide open here on this play um because as they're showing it from the sky cam uh let's go to the next shot here lindsie uh devante now is wide open and there's nobody around him but jalen was was the the timing is all thrown off he looks over at a jay and now everybody's converging on a jay it was too late to throw to a jay by the time devante's

but now Jalen has already worked off of it. So the timing is all thrown off and he ends up taking a, again, it was a scramble for one yard, but it was essentially a third down sack and the Eagles are forced to punt. It's isolation routes. It's very, very simple. And, you know, again, it's similar to what we saw throughout the course of the, throughout the course of the night.

Lindsay, if you go to the next one here, it's another third and long later in the first half. This one's ISO ball. And again, like, similar idea. It's third and 10. tell me if this looks like third and ten this is what we're looking at and it's it's you guys got to go win dallas scott you got to win one-on-one this is again and again man-to-man coverage a jrown you're running a you're running a go ball dallas goddarts running a ball over a route over the

ball devonte you're running a hitch route you know right at the sticks johan dots and you're running something really quick underneath probably as the hot route there uh and you know sayquan's in the flat running back's the flat so that's what you're looking at here on this play so jalen drops back let's go to the next shot lindsay and i don't know you tell me like there's there's nothing open right and i again i look at it i'm like this is very frustrating to watch when you watch any other offense in football but why are they choosing to play this way why have they always chosen because this isn't new we had the same conversation last year we've had the same conversations in years past like this is this is not a new thing this is not a uh kevin petulow addition to the playbook

So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is. What I would say is, is this. You know, we talked a little bit about it on Thursday and said, you know, the reaction of the AJ Brown stuff with the, what's the Twitch streamer? Janky Rondo. Janky Rondo. Shout out to Janky Rondo. To me, if this was like, oh, AJ's going rogue, AJ's, you know, shooting his mouth off, like, you would have had another person in the locker room.

stand up and say and call a j out for that publicly right i think we were kind of reached that point the fact that nobody had to me like painted a picture of like all right like they don't the the locker room doesn't view as a j as like being in the wrong and honestly if you were in eagles that i'm looking like big picture it would be a cleaner fix like hey like you know what we're going to power through let's put our head down let's get through this season j's not happy no matter what we're going to we'll trade them in the off season and it's clean break and you move to me the fact that we've reached this point, and then there was the reporting over the weekend, like Diana Rossini from the Athletics said like multiple, multiple players on offense

are not happy with the direction of how things are going. You know, there was a report from Derek Gunn, who is, you know, as respected as there is, like on the beat, you know, and he said yesterday that, you know, it's like Carson Wentz 2.0 type of situation. And, you know, I look at, you know, South Palantoneo and John Clark, they're reporting from over the weekend about the meeting on the field at practice that was done purposely at practice in the view of the media, like, between A.J. Brown and Jeffrey Lurie and then the details of that meeting, like, coming out, it's like, oh, like, you don't

need to apologize to me. Like, you know, it's like, to me, this feels like it's like a, it's deeper than just like, oh, yeah, AJ's not happy. And I think that makes for a very messy dynamic with this past game and the structure there's that, whether it's coaching staff or quarterback or whatever, like, depend. This team is, they're in the poll position for the number one seed and there is like it's it is crazy they were having this conversation um and i'm trying like you know me like i i'm not like hyperbolic i try not to be like alarmist i'm trying to look at this but just looking at this with all the the facts laid at our feet i don't know it's it's it's it's going to be a messy situation i think well the super chat from suk uh asks the question e j

says there seems to be a coordinated message about jayl and issues in the building this weekend through media. How many turkeys would you put on Jalen? Let's say how many turkeys would you put on Jalen not being here in 26 and 27? I still think it's low. It's very low. Yeah, I still think it's like probably five maybe. I mean, yeah, I probably put it at five. I do think it is noteworthy some of the reporting that has come out. And we've talked about this on the show before. I also think sometimes it is a little easy for Jalen to become the target when the offense is struggling. I think it's important to note that because I understand like some people will point to the

fact like he has played at a high level on big stages and you limited. I think it's fair to say that he is limited in certain areas, but also, you know, a franchise quarterback still. So it's a tricky, it's a tricky thing to navigate here. I also think of the of the people involved here, Jalen is the, least likely to play the media game absolutely yeah absolutely right and so in terms of what is seeping out it's more likely to be pointed in his direction however those things are seeping out that is a that is a a thought process inside the building yeah for sure and i mean i think that part of it is fair i think the way that the egos offense has looked i mean he's come out and

said it before like fran said like it looks the way jalen hurts wants it to look so i think it is concerning that the Eagles passing game has gotten to this point. If like I said last night, it feels like it's gone back to square one. Like they have tried a handful of different approaches. None of them have worked. And to me, it really is concerning, Fran. Like the Packers game was like really shaky quarterback play. And the fact that the response was like,

we are just going to go back to the most basic skeleton of like a passing game to fix it. It's just like, I like, the only identity of that game plan was like, okay, let's make sure AJ gets his targets. Yeah, and it's just, to me, it's like, I think it's twofold here. It's like the fact that they've gone there is like, they think that's what Jalen needs, but also like the fact that like, it's, it's just like there has to be a better answer for your quarterback struggling in certain elements of the scheme than just saying like, well, we're just going to make this painfully basic because that's not an actual solution.

So I think that some of it falls on the coaching staff. some of it obviously falls on Jalen and yeah I just I don't know where the passing game goes from here I know you've talked about it being built around Devante but it's not like Devante had a great game against the Lions either so I don't really know like I said it feels like they had that momentum going into the buy week and I think Fran put it perfectly like the by week came at a really bad time for the offense it seems because now they really just have no identity it's crazy to me it's like they don't they don't do anything well it sounds crazy to say that but it's like they don't do anything well they don't have a single thing that they can go this is what we can lean on you know

the defense is playing well let's go to this thing that is our identity it's we're we're through 11 weeks and they don't have something like that yet no they have that's not true they have uh draws out of empty every time we'll just run three of them that's all third and long it's like oh no they're going to do it again well honestly like i had the same thought and that's why i started like nodding my head and approval each day because literally as i was watching the film today that's exactly like my thought process is I'm watching this this this team like go through and call plays and I'm like yeah there it's November 17th nine months after they won a Super Bowl where they return 10 of 11 starters on that side of the ball they don't know what their identity is yet

crazy they don't know what they do best and and it's all about it's all about the talent right and we we talked all week leading into this game about oh I bet we we bet Kelvin shepard's not going to play as much man in this game because that's the that's the one thing the eagles offense does well is win against man and guess what kelvin shepherd played exactly the same amount of man in this game as he has all season long it was you know about third of the time and the eagles had their worst performance against man since 2023 they couldn't even do it couldn't even do that yeah is this a segue into what i've been dreading talking about for this entire podcast is there anything well let's let's on jalen because we have another super chat here from king ab who says the straight

jacket comment Jalen made after the championship game still confuses me and makes me question who is responsible. Why would Jalen want an offense that gives him so few options? And that's why I think that there are some people that speak at the podium. And I'm not saying that that line, you could take that out of context. But what I would say is, is that there are some people when they speak at the podium where like, oh, like, you can, you can, you can believe everything they're saying. Like, Brandon Graham doesn't tell lies when he's in front of a microphone, right? Like, Vic Fangio, typically like he's pretty i think that there are other players and there are other coaches that you know that are where it's they can they will try and uh you know uh exaggerate some thought

thoughts and you know yeah where you don't you don't know exactly if you're getting like the uh you know how close to the 100 percent they're 100th percentile of the truth are you getting i don't know that you're always necessarily getting that uh you know from every player on the roster i would agree yeah all right a j you want to have your you want to have your conversation you're worried about so fran might have i think did you did you pull the numbers on a certain a j brown yes no i did because i watched his targets back and i will maintain that a j was never truly like a separation receiver he was never somebody who was going to route you up or you know just like create tons of space you know off out of his breaks but watching him against

rock yassin it featured in the game plan like you know he ran more in brink It wasn't so much of the vertical routes. Obviously, he had a few vertical routes. To me, it was like, I can no longer be dismissive of the notion that AJ might not be the same level of explosive player as he has been in years past. I can no longer outright dismiss this. I still think he can be an impact player, but watching those targets back, especially that vertical route in the, I think it was in the fourth quarter there, that was, that

was a really, really tough look for AJ. Like, he is, like, stopped as Jalen throws him the ball. And, like, he said after the game, oh, there was a lot of hand fighting. I couldn't get to that one. To me, like, of all the plays from the game, like, to be a fly on the wall in the film review session when that play is playing out, you know, and the offense is watching it, man, like, he spent all week frustrated about the offense. It was honestly, to me, it might be worse than the Broncos one because it's like,

of all the context around it, it was really tough to watch. um yeah that one of my first line in the notes on that one was all caps yikes um so i went i did go i was thinking about this late last week because you know because there has been like some conversation about uh oh is a j brown just like falling off physically and you know we talked like oh like you know AJ you felt strongly more strongly that he was still like a top five receiver uh than bow or i did but you know i thought it was interesting all right let me just go through some of the GPS number. So I did that just before I actually finished it up during the first ad break.

So if you look at the nine games that AJ has played in this year and you compare it to the last nine games that he played in last year. So it's nine game sample, just the back end of 2024 versus the front end of 2025. I've got three different things. I've got average speed during in game. I've got his max speed in game and then distance traveled in game. And I'll tell you why the distance traveled matter to me. So basically in 2025, so this year, how often his average speed was higher than seven miles per hour in any given play?

So like that that's the average speed. He did that six times in that nine game sample. Last year, it was only two. So he was, he's moving high. He's moving faster. How do I say this correctly? He's moving his fastest more often. yes the average speed is higher this year than it was last year on the back end of last year

which would probably track with he's running more vertical routes probably right exactly but that's what that's what i was thinking and that's why i wanted to take a look at the distance traveled and say like all right like is he just running more cardio uh he so there were five times this year where he has run at least 950 yards in a given game last year it was seven at that in that nine game sample so he actually ran more he ran more the longer distance in more games last year than he did in the nine game sample this year there's probably better done to like in a print format you know how i can do like some of some graphs and things of that nature but um and even like looking at the top speed uh he was able to crack 18 and a half miles an hour that one is the one where it's like he

was moving fat like top speed he hit his top speed more often last year compared to this year that is the one area so that's that would be the one thing you couldn't potentially look at and say like, all right, is that something where he's fall out? He's, he's not as explosive as often. But it's, to me, like, the GPS numbers from what I've seen, and the team's got more than what I do, obviously, that, you know, this is kind of surface level, you know, from next gen. But yeah, to me, I'm not seeing like, there was more in that Cooper Cup profile. Remember before the Eagles played the Rams in the playoffs, I was like, oh, these GPS numbers do not look good for Cooper Cup. I'm not seeing that same falloff here.

it maybe it's not it's not like a something that you can underscore with data but i do think like going back to the beginning of the season like i remember we had this disagreement where you guys were saying like you think the hamstring is like a residual thing and it could be that listen nobody's going to know exactly why a j brown slows up on that vertical route like in like maybe it is as simple as like he's physically not quite the same or maybe he's affected by the injury or it could be a level of frustration you know it could be the floating through games but i do think there are instances each game and this is what i need to like why i can no longer be just completely dismissive of it like there are instances each game where it just seems like

for whatever reason it's not full bore and you know whatever that reason is like it is it's concerning because if he wants to be the focal point it has to be like he has to be the guy in those moments you know he has to get to that that ball so i don't know it's It was, like, watching that vertical route was like an inflection point for me in my AJ Brown discourse this year. Because it's like, I can't, there's no defense for it. You know, there's nothing that you can say for all of the things he says. Like, that is the action that has to back that up. Well, it's not dissimilar to the Josh Jacobs thing, right?

It's if he knows going in that the corner knows exactly what route he's running because we are so predictable, then he's probably not going to run it as hard. And I think, I think that is a very human thing. we can all relate to. Like, if your boss is asking you to do something dumb, you're not going to work your best at it, right? I think most people. But if you are being, if you are being coached up

or let free to do what you think, what you agree with, then of course you're going to work harder, right? But at the same time, you know, his job is to run the routes. If you want the ball, you've got to run. And then to me, you know, going back and that's not completely, do you guys feel good about the AJ?

Brown of it all? Yes. Yeah. Because to me, like, again, I'm watching this offense and I get to like third quarter. And that's where I'm like, man, like they are just, they're lost. They're lost right now. There was a, there was a series in the third quarter where they get into the red zone. And let me see if I can pull up the exact time frame.

Lindsay, this is going to be the 11 personnel versus base. Let's see here. I want to make sure I'm looking at the exact right, right situation. So yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, all right, this is, this is the stretch here. So they go 11 personnel, and we talked last week about how the lines, they played more base than anybody. And I said, well, they also faced more multiple tight-end sets than basically anybody in the NFL. The Eagles numerous times came out in 11 personnel with three receivers on the field, and the lions felt okay matching with base defense. And on this play, this is the first downplay in the red zone.

This was after a QB draw gets them into, gets them into the red zone. just about just outside the red zone and they run the football so the 11 personnel they're going to run the football right into into base defense you're playing into their hands so it goes for no game so next play they're like we're going to stay in 11 personnel and the lion stay in base so again like you've got the matchup advantage like you should be able to spread these guys out you should be able to take advantage of some matchups here you should be able to you know run some you know mesh concepts you put put guys in stressful situations where all of a sudden you've got an a j you know a jrown Mante Smith, potentially on a linebacker or on a safety in the middle of the field.

Instead, they put Devante into the backfield and they run kind of like a misdirection double screen. And if you go to the next shot here, Alex Anzolone read this the entire way. Anzolone makes up like instant B-line for where Sequin Bark was going to be. Beats Cam Juergens to the spot. And he ends up getting a TFL for minus eight yards. And so now you get to it's like third and third and 15, I think, or third and 16. And they just run double slant.

They play for the field goal. They didn't run it. They didn't go give up draw, but they're like, all right, we're just going to run double slant. We'll get some of the loss of the arduge back and we'll kick a field goal. They, this is a team like repeatedly. Like, I'm in my notes. I didn't do screen grabs for everything just because, you know,

I didn't want to put everybody through this. It's always so much. Yeah, there's only so much. But it's like repeatedly, simple concepts, 11 personnel can't get anybody open. Repeat play. Derek Barnes reads the play. You know, it's just like time and time again where, there's nothing that's working to get the guys open and so yeah like to me like that's that's on

the coaches right and then all right the guys aren't winning you had drops early in the game there were there there were like three drops in the first two drives or whatever it was so you you had drops and then you don't have like anything schematically that's working to get the guys open in the pure drop back pass game the under center stuff was hit and miss you had you know lane johnson go out the run game while efficient wasn't explosive then you get to into like high leverage moments. And this one was another one where I'm like, oh, this will be the last one.

Lindsay, can you go to Grant, uh-huh. So it's third down. Let me pull up the play real quick. So it's, uh, let me pull up the down in distance. This is, where am I here? All right, yeah. All right. So it's third and six.

Third and six, 12 personnel based defense. The call here for the lines is what I call cover one cheat, where it's going to, be man-to-man coverage across the board single single up man-to-man you have one single-high safety but that safety is cheating to one side he's cheating to a j brown side so you got man-to-man with the with raki asin number one matched up on on a j brown you've got the safety cheating over top all right so now you got four eligible receivers essentially playing against zero coverage to the wide side of the field possibilities are endless here you've got sequin barclay you've got

Devante Smith, you've got Dallas Goddard, wide side of the field, a four by one type of situation. Here's the play. Lindsay, let's go to the next one. The route from Granson was I didn't have one that built specifically for this. Essentially, he's running an out and up. So he's going to run to the flat as if he's going to run just a quick route to the sideline, which, you know, I guess like that's a credit because they do that a lot. And then he was so he's running a double move and out and up against the linebacker. But Devante is working a little hit trout over the ball. You have Dallas Goddard running a, you know, basically like a decoy route.

This is designed on third and six to go on a double move to Kyle and Granson. Like you've got A.J. Brown. You've got Devante Smith. You've got Dallas Goddard. You've got Sequin Barkley. It's third and six and I've got to have a situation. Second half, this is the play call. And it's like, oh, you know, like, it's just like these guys are just pressing.

And it's like, so it ends up being a downfield shot outside the numbers, low probability throw to your third you'll never see it coming yeah it's just like guys like i you know what i mean like to me like all of this it's all it's just all compounds so it's like you have the drops you have jalen like not seeing it clearly you don't have the the run game's not explosive and it's just all can it turn absolutely can they start hitting on something can like you start regressing whereas oh they start hitting on some of these uh these the fades outside the numbers like there was one play the first in 10 like and it's uh that's man-to-man coverage just like all right we're just going to throw it up to a j it's just like guys like there there are other answers it doesn't need

to be as hard as it is but that that's that's what it is right now with this past game with his offense you know what the the granson uh back shoulder fade kind of reminded me of the uh the hekeem butler fourth down goal line fade from a few years ago only talking to the season yeah just like so random so just like the most random thing acceptable because I'm like all right like yeah you got the idea behind that value he can bring yeah and like that that offense was a lot different they didn't have quite the uh it's like oh they turned down a target to Travis Folgum to give the ball of the key button oh man I feel bad that they're eight and two we're depressing everybody but yeah we spend a lot of time talking about the defense

but I think this was like therapeutic for all of us we needed to talk through this so It was probably therapeutic for the listeners, too. There is reason to believe that this is rock bottom. I mean, these two weeks, like, this is as bad as it's been. Maybe next week will be better than the last. If you were in Eagles, you guys are all doom and gloom, there's plenty of reason to believe that this, this is, this is the worst it's going to look. It's been a terrible two-week stretch. You mentioned that, like, this was the worst, last week against Green Bay was the worst performance.

This was, was worse than that. chances are, look, if they are worse than this against that defense, sexually, then at 9 and 2, they can end the season. They can walk off into the ocean. Yeah, it's, yeah, this would, I would be definitely concerned. And LB 908 just made a good point.

Like, terrible two-week stretch coming out of the buy. Like, so you had the time off. Like, that's the issue of the time to, like, reset. And you see what the defense is going one way. it's like rocket chip to the moon and it's going the opposite way for the offense all right let's get through the rest of the super chats before we head on out here

AJ if you want to hop for Nick by all means go ahead I got it I got it going in my on the other screen I'm keeping an eye on it has he started yet he has I'm good yeah John Lickery says how do we convince offensive coaching staff to put Willie

Lampkin in for the jumbo package while Big Fred plays right tackle prior ain't it from your fingertips to God's ears Willie wouldn't that be great if Willie Lampkin completely turned around the offense you know he is the skeleton key

to yeah he just replaces Cam Lotzu in the line no no hey hey hey unnecessary see this is why I didn't want to go I knew this was going to happen uh Sensei says can they not just look at the stuyken years 2022 there was a little bit of chatter about that in the chat

you have to remember like with the that 2020 season they were the the offense was built for the most part not everything for the most part it was deep balls and rpeos like that that was the past game was like we're going to run the ball and it's deep balls and r pos and it was like perfectly crafted well and it's honestly it's somewhat similar to what stikin's doing right now with the colts where it's like it's a it's a lot of r pos it's the run game and they're going to have well-schemed up deep shots um i would say that there was probably fewer of those like well-schemed-up deep shots in 2022. A lot of it, not all, but a lot of it was like, we're going to hit A.J. on the fade. It's a lot of like outside the numbers, vertical shots, which are low probability

type of throws that they are running hot on. Dr. Prince Blue, do they need a play designer or a play caller? Porcée. Nolo Stos? I think from this discussion, you would say more about the designer. not that you are blaming the person but you would you would prefer different designs than different specific calls i think so are there is like are there examples in the nfl like of like a designer papering over some of the things that jalen hertz struggles with like is there like i don't know because it's like you can design great plays like they had some good designs against the packers

it's just they couldn't hit on them so it's like to me obviously those the problems are a lot deeper than that but i mean you do see like mediocre quarterbacks have great production so i don't know do you think it is that simple yeah i mean you can you can definitely scheme things up to find production like the tua had they didn't he like lead the league in passing two years ago or something well tula and jalen are like the exact inverse of like they are the inverse quarterback to me like everything that jalen is good at too is not good at and vice versa so right but i mean you can You can massage around a quarterback's flaws and figure out ways to be able to come on. I know it's Boercline, but, you know, 3.31.

It wasn't that bad. That's my fault. That's my fault. It was raised my eyebrows. Yeah, that was my fault. It was my reaction. A very generous super chat from Fresh Prince. Thank you so much, Fresh Prince.

What a generous donation. He says, could Jalen be asked directly about the passing concepts being basic? If he said the offense will look like he wants it to look, are these concepts what he wants it to look like? Also, even when feeding AJ, he did not look great to me. Sorry, E.J. I don't know why I needed the apology. Because you said AJ is still the best receiver in the league.

And I will take some. I didn't say exactly that. But it's a fair question about Jaylon's pressers. What do you think? I mean, I think he's been pretty clear. I mean, as clear as Jaylon is on. most things about the ownership that he has on the way that they play

offensively. I think like, what, Fran? There was the line last night that caught my car, caught my ear. Yes. Yeah, he was asked about it fell like he were forced feeding AJ. And he said, that seems like a question for KP. Yeah. So, yeah, I do think like some of, I think that that's like an acknowledgement that some of the calls, like they manufactured touches for AJ. So I think that that was my guess on what he was

alluding to. But I think in general, like the way that the Eagles was played offensively. Like, I don't think Jalen Hertz has an issue with it. So, yeah, I mean, could we ask him, like, are these basic passing concepts? Are you behind them? I guess we could. But I think, like, he has, I think he's been pretty clear about the way that the way it looks is the way he wants it to look.

Roheed with a super chance says, why run Sequin that much, 26 carries, use tank. Yeah, I think that's fair. I like a tank. I mean, give him four more carries. That sounds, that seems fine. I do feel like I've liked the, the, the carries that they are giving him. I'm like, yeah, I like this rotation in terms of like the time.

Could they do it a little bit more, maybe? But I do like the spots where they put them in. I'm like, yeah, it makes sense to put him in on this one. All right, Fran. Anything else you want to get off your chest after dragging yourself through the mud, watching that offensive film? Just looking through. I don't think so.

I think we hit on everything. Hey, what happened on that, that terrible undercenter play action play? Oh, the 14-yard sack, yeah. Yeah, that to me looked like it was some kind of a mental error between Jurgens and Steen on blocking the defensive tackle that was slanting inside. There was a slant called from the defensive line, and it looked like it was just some kind of miscommunication there, and so there was just the hurts that, that one was dead to right. It's like, yeah, you had nowhere to go on that one.

Okay. EJ, anything else? I thought Cam Latu had some nice moments. He had a great special team's tackle. He did. Yeah, but even blocking this two weeks in a row, he's stood up one of the best eddressers in the NFL. Come on, guys.

Give him a little love. Be who you are. Better than your guy, Darius Cooper. You've had to, I mean, man, you have bent over backwards. words to try and make that one a positive for Darius Cooper. I respect the bit. What are you talking about? He knew which side of the ball to trust?

I had a buddy of mine ask me if you, did you see the Eagles like social clip of Darius Cooper reading like a letter from a young fan? Somebody texted me and asked if you had written that. Yeah, I masked it well. That's very good. All right. I guess that's all we got. Thank you, Fran, for doing the heavy lifting here with the snappy snaps.

E.J., good work out of you. We will talk to everybody tomorrow at 2 o'clock. Upcoming schedule tonight. We've got the flyers coming up at 4 o'clock. And then the Sixers, Paul George, makes his season debut. So check out the Sixers guys talking about that pregame at 630. And then, of course, the post-game show afterwards for all of us here at PHAW. Thank you, Lindsay, for making it happen behind the scenes.

We will talk to you tomorrow 2 o'clock. And as always, we love you.