PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Fran Duffy, Jourdan Rodrigue ANALYZE Philadelphia Eagles-Los Angeles Rams matchup

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

It’s a loaded Thursday show as Bryce Huff heads for surgery and Jalen Hurts’ recovery plan continues. With Lane Johnson, Jordan Mailata, Saquon Barkley and the Eagles offense preparing for a fun, young Rams defensive line including Jared Verse, Braden Fiske and Kobie Turner, we get you set for the matchup from a variety of angles. Fran Duffy has crunched the tape to tell us about what to expect from a gameplan standpoint while Zach Berman has the pulse from the locker room. Then, Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic joins the show to give her insight on the Rams, and also her informed perspective on the Eagles’ front office.Oh, and don’t forget about Swooper! Join us for all the fun. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello! To the PHLY Eagles podcast presented by Bet365. Download the Bet365 app and use code PHLY365. When you sign up, whenever the moment, it's never ordinary. At Bet365, welcome to the show. We've got a loaded one for a Thursday. Fran Duffy to my left, Zach Berman across the way. Later in the show, we're going to hear from Jordan Rodriguez of the Athletic,

one of the best beat writers in the game, but also much of... more than a beat writer has some insight on the Eagles front office looking forward to that conversation and sharing it with you but before that let's let's talk some ball gentlemen Fran how you doing doing great it feels like so long since we've had this kind of discussion because of the Thursday night football game a week ago so it's uh I'm excited I'm excited to talk through this game Zach how you doing doing great excited for the show all right now I will say I don't want to start with it because we I think we should start football today but I'm continuing to add to the list of good technology. I appreciate the

listeners and human beings in real life who have told me. So far I've got about three or four. So I think we're growing. What are you added? We'll save it for later. I don't need to get into it. It stunts me that like being in favor of technology is a controversial opinion. But I digress.

Let's let's talk ball. Let's send it over to the Stone Cold Newsman, Zach, because there was some news at the November complex yesterday. Yes, Bryce Huff is undergoing a surgery on his left wrist today. So I'm not sure if it's this morning or this afternoon, but today. Do you still doubt

that he's injured? I never doubted that he was injured. I never doubted. I don't know. No, I literally saw a cast on his hand. I never doubted his he was injured. What I doubted is that was the reason for his decline in in snaps. Yes.

I was saying I was skeptical that that's what I was skeptical of. I thought it was pretty fishy. I didn't think they created an injury. I didn't think the cast on his wrist was a plow. He didn't have the cast the first time. No, but the past two games, he had a cast on his wrist. Initially,

Okay, so let's, let me continue here. So, Bryce Huff, he's going to be out for some time. We don't know the exact period of time. The Eagles hope that he's back toward the end of the season in healthier form. You heard Vic Fangio's quote two weeks ago. ago that his thumb had been immobilized. He was playing with he, he had no movement in the stomach or his palm. He had four fingers dangling.

It's harder to play that position when it's like that. Now that said, he was playing some third downs here and there. So he had the hard cast. Even before that, though, even before the injury, he was playing. He was playing about 30% of the snaps there. So we saw last year, for instance, with Hassan Reddick. that when Reddick was healthier, more production came. I think that's what the Eagles are hoping for.

They're hoping that this alleviates some of what the issue had been. But as we outlined in previous shows and the last show, he was not lighting it up before the injury. So with him out, there's maybe 10 to 25 snaps per game that will be distributed. It could be more to Nolan Smith. I don't think it's going to be more to Josh Sweat. I don't think it's going to be Brandon Graham. But the fourth person there would be Jalick's Hunt,

someone who has impressed behind the scenes. As Bowulf spotted right away at practice yesterday, Jalick's Hunt was not practicing. He's dealing with an ankle injury. We will see how he progresses. I specifically asked Nick Siriani about Jalick's Hunt before practice. And Nick said, we have to see how practice goes this week. And at the time, I didn't know there was an injury he was doing with.

So that's something we'll see. but I do know from talking to players, talking to some people behind the scenes, Jow X-Ox Hunt has impressed. There is a lot of like there with J-Ox Hunt. I think he will be the beneficiary of it. Maybe not the same snap count or the, or snap volume,

but I would imagine 10, 15 snaps. Well, it was interesting. He played all those snaps in the Cowboys game and that didn't play on defense against the commanders. Now, there were fewer snaps overall against Washington, but still he went from being ahead of Huff to being behind him. Yeah, and that game, too, against Washington. that package with three

defensive tackles and Brandon Graham up front so I wonder if that's something that they lean into more a couple snaps of game as well that's another possibility. I feel like if Hunt is not able to play or is hampered I would imagine that just means more Milton Williams more of that package right. Right, more than one other

thing they could do is I've spoken to people behind the scenes in the building who are like, Zach Bond is more than an inside linebacker, right? He can rush around the edge. So there might be certain third downs where Zach Vaughn could be used in that way. And, you know, they have either

Nicobi as this whole linebacker or they have to, you know, they bring in whether it's Berks or Trott, Jr., or something like that. Or more dime. Yeah, exactly. So that's one piece of news. Elsewhere, Devante Smith did not practice. I think this is more them kind of maintaining his status.

We'll see. Now, he was limping coming off the field, but he's been taking Wednesdays off or been, managing Wednesdays. So today's practice, which is happening in a few minutes, we'll get updates from our fellow beat writers. We'll give you an update there. Jalen Hertz was limited yesterday.

Jalen said that this is part of kind of the team's strengthening program following the mini-buy. I expect J-Lan to be full participant today, full participant tomorrow and play on Sunday. But J-Lan has been injured the past three years at the end of the year. And so I think there is a lot of focus being paid to how they can kind of maintain something if you're how I can manage something that might be lingering the other piece of news is Britt and Covey's practice window open so if in fact Bryce a Bryce Huff goes and I are Britain Covey could take that spot or they could sign C.J. Usoma to the

53 because they need a third tight end right we don't need to do that yet though yeah CJ has two more practice squad elevations ahead of them we do we know the way Vig Fangio feels about Cooper the gene returning bonds Cooper's such important yeah Do you think when Covey's healthy, he just takes that job back? I would think so. You know, the Eagles like Covey there. Something Michael Clay said is it helps to have two guys because you can use different guys in different roles.

So maybe that's something that they do. There's certain returns where they have Covey. There's certain returns where they have the gene. And then just one other kind of anecdote from yesterday that I found interesting was Nick Siriani's his Wednesday team meeting. He used Darius Slay's career as like the vehicle for discussing adversity and overcoming adversity like playing adversity. I'm not saying off off the field stuff. And he spoke to Slay about clips from Slay's rookie year to use. And Slay's been honest, like he got

benched by Jim Schwartz twice, he said. And then Jim Schwartz was the one pounding the table to trade for him a few years later. And he talked about how everyone's journey is a little bit different. And, you know, Nick had had film from Slay's rookie year. Slay says he has a great memory. He recalls every play of his career. So he was able to tell Nick, like, the certain plays to pick out. I think there was a play with Adrian Peterson rushing for long touchdown where Slay missed a tackle on. And then there was another play where he might have gotten a hand on the ball and D'Andre Levy, got the interception. But anyways, great name, DeAndre Levy. You got about him? I think you pronounced it Levy, though.

I think it's, yeah, it could be wrong. All right. I'm going to take your word for it. I'm the pronunciation. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a different one. True. Don't take my work for me. Let me consult Google AI. what they let's see what they know oh hi i see what you did there and and so that's those are some of the news and you know by d'andre what's that it's actually levi d'andre it's not uh so that's that's some of the news and notes from novi care okay and you can of course read more about all of that on all p hl y dot com if you are a diehard what is our uh our super chat here from fresh prints he says update i put my two-year-old daughter to bed tuesday night and i asked her if she knew the

comparison that comparison is the thief of joy she said she said yes daddy good night i was watching from home just dying like almost fell out of my chair in my office just outstanding work yeah i have said that to read because we we do talk a lot about don't compare to this person you know there's there's always someone better someone worse just you know the race is with yourself so comparison is the thief of joy pro football reference as DeAndre Levy. So there you go. I think I was wrong at one point calling it leaving and I got corrected and therefore I know

it's Levy. There you go. There you go. All right. Fran? Beau. Let's talk about the Rams. Let's do it.

Let's start. I think most of the juiciest matchups for the Eagles these days are their defense against the opposing offense. So let's start with the Los Angeles offense. now heavy motion heavy motion but the the like identity of what we imagine

as a as a Sean McVeigh team from like the beginning of his coaching career like all 11 personnel all outside zone stuff it's not that anymore what is their identity on offense yeah I mean they they still lean into 11 personnel obviously they're second in the league right now in 11 personnel usage

motion bunches play act action. A lot of the bones are still there. The big, the big change is a lot of the run action with like Todd Gurley was all like outside zone, stretch action where that's where you saw Todd Gurley, let's say, working on an outside run to the right and then Jared Goff is bootlegging out to the left. That is not necessarily what you're seeing now with Matthew Stafford. It's much more, you know, like downhill play action. They've morphed into more like a downhill like duo run team over these last couple of years. That's something that Kyron Williams has shown to be really effective at running. And so you're seeing a lot more like, uh, constriction in terms of where the pocket is. It's not as much like the side to side stuff. But look, this is a really well-constructed offense. They put a ton of stress on you from a zone coverage standpoint where basically what they want to do every single play, they're going to try and put you in a bind. They want to attack players that have dual conflict.

And so at the second level, linebackers, nickels, safeties, if you've got a run responsibility and a past responsibility and coverage, they want to target somebody on every play. and they're saying, okay, we're going to make you wrong. And it's not even necessarily like, oh, like, this is the guy we're going to target because he's not good. It's this is the guy that we're going to put the most stress on. And he can't cover both of these receivers and defend the run. Let's make him wrong on this given play. That's what they do at a really high level.

It's interesting because the identity of this matchup for, for like, opposing defenses is like the Rams offensive line, not very good. Yeah, can get beaten. But boy, are they going to put you in a bind in the second level? And for so long, for the Eagles, he'd be like, okay, like this is going to be on the defensive line. They got to win. Yeah, because otherwise they're just going to get killed at the second level. Now, because that's where the Eagles are strong, I don't know.

It's going to be, it's almost good on good. Yes. It's going to be really fun to see how these guys are able to react because this is a whole different test. You know, when we were talking last week against Washington, the test was, all right, you have to contain Jaden Daniels. That's got to be the number one thing and you have to worry about what he can do with his legs. That's not an issue with Matthew Stafford. He has not run one time on a scramble all season.

So that is not that is not what. you're worried about. And his numbers when he's pressured are bad. But yes, and he's like really plummeted this year. I mean, he has not been good under pressure this year. You can almost tell like watching because like this was a team that was hammered by injuries. You can tell he's just like, yeah, I'm 40 years old. I'm not getting hit. We're not doing this. I'm going to save myself when that guys get healthy. But I mean, he is just when the ball, when he's feeling pressure, that ball is coming out and it's coming out fast.

That's why like the QB hit numbers and the pressure numbers from a volume standpoint aren't really there. But my guess is if you were to look at like, Well, ESPN, Seth Waller, they do those, like the pass rush win rates. Like, my guess is that their past pro win rates are very low. That would be my guess is that you're seeing guys get beat, but it's not resulting in pressures because the ball just comes out fast and erratic at times from Matthew Stafford. But I think the big thing will be, like the skill talent now is fully healthy. And when you have Cooper Cup, Pooka, Kairn Williams, Matthew Stafford out in the field altogether,

this has been the most prolific offense in football over the last two seasons. The numbers, when you look at, I pulled this yesterday, they are number one in yards per play, explosive play rate, and EPA per play when Stafford Cup, Puka and Kyron all in the field. All of those numbers lead the NFL. So that's ahead of, you know, Jalen and AJ in this group. That's ahead of Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and that group ahead of the, what do they call the San Francisco, the death line up in San Francisco, like ahead of all of those groups. You better be worried.

But that's the thing, though, is that when you have this offense and look, two of the last four weeks, they've had their, the best. this offense has looked. Last week, it was a season high in yards per play and efficiency four touchdowns for Stafford in that game. So this is an offense. Now that these guys are healthy and the offensive line is starting to bounce back as well from a health standpoint, it's a big test for the Eagles. It's interesting. I was looking at their numbers from without having both guys healthy. With having both guys healthy. It's five and five for this game this year. And on the course, on the whole of the season, they are like a second quartile offense

in everything, right? They're 12th in DVO.S. 11th in passing DVOA, 15th in rushing DPA. If you look at it like EPA per drive and success rate, without those guys, they are 13th and EPA per drive and eighth in success rate. Okay. But when you flip it and they have those guys, they are less consistent. Success rate drops, but the EPA per drive moves up. So it says if without those guys, Stafford's like,

right, I just got to live, play by play, get my chunks, you know, get my four or five yards. Whereas when he has cup and Nakua, he can afford to, you know, put his eyes downfield and search for a bigger place. Yeah, I do wonder, too, like, if there were certain games that kind of threw that off, too, where from a success rate standpoint, you know, again, going back to last week and just watching that film from week 11, that offense was something. Like, that's what, I think that's what they picture that offense to look like was this past week.

And even still, like, they were still missing when they get both those guys in the offense of yards. Yep. I mean, that's what they want that offense to look like ultimately. So from a Vic Fangio, how we're going to approach this standpoint, what are your expectations? How do you think they're going to try to handle? Nakua and Kupin. How much do they move those guys around?

This is not like a Terry McLaurin, just going on the left side situation. Cup does most of his work from the slot. They'll still move him outside at times, but the majority of his work has come from the slot. I was just looking this past week. It's like 70-something percent. Yeah, 70 percent from the slot, but even like this past week, it was like six of seven of his targets came from inside. His touchdown came from inside. So that's a matchup with he and Cooper Dijin, certainly that you'll look at that. So Cooper on Cooper there on the interior, but Pooka and Kua, they move him all over. you know he'll get reps in the backfield he'll line up as a wing tight end they do all kinds of

things with pukin to kuhu like the releases through the line of screen which it's really fun to watch it's cool no well it's so that's the problem right is that uh if you are a defender or if you're a defender and you're in charge of pukinakou before the snap imagine he's in the right slot they will bring him back to the left slot and then loop him around staffer back in the backfield and then loop him back through the formation like that that that wheel route for a touchdown that barkley ran and have him run that like that's just that's tough to handle that they put a lot of stress on you from that way. And so you have to, it's not like you ignore the motions, but you have to just go out

and you just have to trust your coverage rules. And you can't, you can't give up the cheap stuff. You're going, they're going to out-scheme you on some of these plays. They're going to be some mistakes. Yeah, they're going to out-scheme you so you can't give up the cheap stuff in the meantime. I'm fascinated by this offensive line. Yeah. You mentioned it and you said in past years you'd say the Eagles would win on the line.

But I look at the Rams here. First off, that three-year, 15. $31 million contract seems to be like dangerous now in the NFL. That's what Price Huff got. That's what Jonah Jackson got. And Jonah Jackson, who was a pro-bowler, and Sheila would want us to say from media. From media. Okay.

And I didn't quite understand what the Rams were doing, investing in all the guards. They moved Steve Avila, who had a good rookie year. Now, Jackson was benched, as everyone can see, on your notes and on p.gly.com. But I bring this up because last year,

I thought Jaylon Carter was awesome in that game. Yes. And I know the Rams had some issues on the interior line. That's part of why they spent money this past year, but they're still having some issues on the interior. They have a sixth round pick at center right now. Is this a game that Jamon Carter can wreck? He can.

Now, the game he wrecked last year against the Rams, that was Kevin Dotson, I think it was his second start. Now, they traded for Dotson from Pittsburgh. He was a mid-round pick, got drafted, and was benched by the Steelers, so then they traded him before last season. So he started on the bench, worked his way into the starting lineup.

That game against the Eagles was his second start of memory serves. And Carter got him on a number of plays. And Fletcher had a good game in that game as well against Dotson. Now, he went on to have a really good season, earned a contract extension and got paid. As you mentioned, got paid really well. They went out and signed Jonah Jackson to be the left guard. And so they were like, all right, we're going to take Steve Avila. We're going to put him to center.

And now we've got these three monstrous interior offensive lineman that really fit that downhill rushing attack that kind of morphed into. And then very late, like, after preseason game three, they were like, okay, we're going to move a Vila back to left guard. and Jonah Jackson's going to play center. It was my, it was like really weird that they did, they did this after the preseason with basically giving him no,

no reps there at center. And then he promptly got hurt Jonah Jackson. So he's injured and misses the first half of the season. He comes back two weeks ago and week 10 and was terrible. They lost to the Miami Dolphins and they ran stunt after stunt after stunted. I mean, rightfully so this is a guy that's never played center before. Let's test him. And he was bad.

So then they benched him last week in favor of, uh, Bo's favorite, uh, Beau's favorite spelling is the rookie center. B-E-A-U-X. Bo Limer.

I don't mind an X. You don't mind the X? X is better than no X. Okay, so B-E-A-U is the lowest of the low. Which they go up against a B-A-B-A-U next week. The Ravens have a safety, Bo Braid from Maryland. Who's the no-X,

but Bo Limer, who is, I think I had a good comp for him coming out, but he's a leaner center. No, no, he's actually the complete opposite of Lachos from my body-type standpoint. He's a taller, leaner center, pretty good athlete. He is more of like your stretch zone type of athlete.

So to me, that's one where like go after his anchor. I think you can create some push against Bo Limmer. We saw the Eagles were able to get Jalen Carter matched up on the center from Washington last week. And that was really fruitful for them. So I think in this game, you'll see a little bit of that. But the matchup primarily will be against the right guard, Kevin Dotson. And Dotson has played pretty well when healthy this year. And so we'll see exactly how that matchup goes.

Well, it's funny. the top two contenders for a defensive rookie of the year, right? Jared Veres and Quinn Yai Mitchell, it seems like at this point, they're on the field in the same game here and Queenie Yiddell is going to get he's going to get thrown at more this week than he did last week, right? I would think so.

Puka is the number one targeted wide receiver in the NFL. Cooper Cup is number two or number three, depending on if you count Rashi Rice. Like, they're going to throw to those guys and they're going to move them all around. So, like, it seems like that's where this game starts. The run game is like they want to run the ball, And they are, it's interesting.

They're like second, I believe, in rushing success rate. Yep. But 31st, an explosive run rate. Right. So, like, they're just getting what's blocked. They are, they are not a threat right now to, to beat you at the second level. I really like Kairn Williams. They're running back.

He loved, but he is like a more talented, a slightly more talented version of like Kenny Gainwell where there's not like, he's going to get you what's there. Yeah. And there's not like a plus physical trait with Kiron Williams. He's just relying on like his instincts and the fact that he's, he is really slippery. He's had five games this year where he's forced five missed tackles. That's one of the best in the NFL so far this season. So he's that kind of like slippery, make you miss runners. He's really competitive with the ball in his hands.

Now his numbers and the run game numbers overall have fallen off since Cooper Cup and Pukunukua have come back to the lineup. They've become much more reliant. I think they've been excited to get those guys back in the lineup. We want to feed those guys. So we'll see exactly how much of a factor Kairn is in this game. But to me, when I look at Quinnian for this matchup, it's not necessarily like, all right, puka versus because they move those guys around, right?

But where I do see, look, they love to line up in these tight formations and then throw quick, outbreaking routes. When they're not doing like the play action stuff, the, their plain drop back pass is all right, we're going to go condensed formations

and we're going to throw a quick, outbreaking routes towards the sideline. This is a prime opportunity for, for Quignon in this game to jump one of these routes and finally get that interception that we've been hoping to see. Because those were the routes. Remember early on where he dropped a couple early,

it was those specific kinds of, routes against Atlanta where where did Robinson, their offensive coordinator here, Zach Robinson comes from the Rams, those kinds of routes, right? So I would expect that those opportunities will be there for Quignan in this game. It is also an opportunity for him to sort of draw on the experience of playing inside in training camp a little bit.

Yeah, no question. It's a similar assignment. Yeah. And Cooper, to me, like this is where last week was, all right, all eyes on Quignon Mitchell. This one, to me, like, this is a big Cooper de Gene, like spotlight game, you know, to see how he's able to navigate everything that they're going to throw at him. Nicoby Dean, I think it's going to be put under the spotlight in this game.

Zach Vaughn will be put under the spotlight in this game. So a huge test for all those guys in the middle of the field. And run game, you're not super concerned? I mean, we talked about time. Yeah, you know, I think that this is one where the Eagles should be able to hold their own, certainly at the point of attack. I think that we know what they want to be offensively at the run game, but to your point. I mean, they've been successful, but not overly explosive.

I think the Eagles will accept that here in this game for the most part. Speaking about the Eagles defense, just to give an update, J-Ox Hunt, is practicing today. Nolan Williams is practicing today. Devante Smith is not practicing today. That's going on as we speak. Are you worried about Devante? Am I worried about Devante status?

But you know what? When a guy misses Thursday, the antenna does go up. Okay. Well, we will talk more about that in just a minute. I'm feeling so good. I hope it's not pneumonia. If you're thinking similarly, you can protect yourself from pneumonia. Come on. Are you actually not feeling well?

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Speaking about pneumonia. I was speaking about it today. This was the weekend last year. The Eagles played the Chiefs. And I had pneumonia. I didn't know about it because we were talking about the weekend before Thanksgiving. And that trip last year, that was as bad as I felt.

So, like, I can't remember feeling worse than I did then, like physically. So I would say if you have symptoms, make sure you check out your local rating. I had a great aunt that just had that complications from pneumonia was in the hospital for a couple weeks over the summer. I would say, yes, make sure you get those vaccinations. And if you're a fan of seeing Zach run down a little bit, Monday show could be good because you're going to be coming off the red eye.

Yes, well, I will say Monday, I probably won't. I should be fine Monday. Tuesday is when I probably feel it. It's the Tuesday when I feel it. Big words. That means you're going to have to be on your game on Monday. I just get excited to see you, though. So I come in after two days and, yeah, I've been ready to roll.

All right. Let's talk about this Rams defense, which not, you know, the Rams offense, we know the stars. Rams defense that, you know, Jared Verst seems to look like a star. But this does feel like a group that is overachieving a little bit. Now it is solidly third quartile, just like the, you know, the Rams offense was stuck in that second quartile. The Rams defense is 18th. DVOA 22nd in passing DVOA 20th in rushing DVOA the back seven not so great right but that defensive line is very interesting yeah and that's why I look at it and when you like third quartile

but probably closer to the middle right like you know they the 16s and 20s like that's a little closer to that's the middle of the pack I think when you look at this group pressure is what they're all about they put a lot of stress on you from that standpoint I can blitz rates or just like from the front four a little bit of both their pressure rate when they do when they Don't blitz is actually very good because you know what they do is that they do a lot of the, all right, we're going to put six or seven guys up on the line of scrimmage. I only send four, so that doesn't go down as a blitz. But, I mean, that's a pressure look.

And they do that a lot. Yeah, and they do it with all kinds of guys lining up in funky spots. So that's something that you're going to have to watch for if you're Jalen Hertz. Jailerter is going to get pressured in this game. You know, when you look at all the pressure numbers, he is the, at the bottom of the list in terms of of how often he gets pressured. A lot of that, you know, by his own doing, not necessarily from the offensive line. and the Rams are like number two, number three,

depending on which service you look at in terms of pressure rate, especially over the last month or two. So when you look at this group, he is going to get pressured. And this is Jared Verst. On the other side, he got Byron Young, last year's third round pick,

who's really long, explosive, twitchy. He's a tough matchup from a blocking standpoint. Braden Fisk, this year's second round pick, really, really good. He's been very impressive over these last few weeks. He had two sacks last week. He had two sacks three weeks ago.

Kobe Turner was a rookie last year, who did a lot for them up front. It was a lot of people, honestly, argued that he would have been most deserving of rookie the year defensively in the NFL last year. So I think when you look at that group up front, except the wake, there go. But when you look at that group, they're going to present challenges to Jaylor-Hart's this week.

You're going to do the whole thing? Yeah, here we go. Go, D. Yeah, I mean, come on. Your thoughts on Chris Shore. the Rams defense coordinator. And Zach, how close were the Eagles to hiring Chris Shula? You tell me.

Nick Siriani knows him well. They interviewed him. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm asking. Oh, I don't know how. Give us the background. The Eagles, this is a potential what if.

Yeah, he's someone Nick knows well. They work together. There's a background there. And that was when they hired Desai. Yep. They interviewed him. Yeah, who actually is on the staff in. Yeah, that's right.

With the Rams. We'll actually get to that with Jordan. the potential awkwardness of that dynamic. Yeah, so I, I don't know how close they were to Shoal, but I do know he's someone that they liked, and he's someone who Nick Colts in high regard. Yeah, I really. A good story, by the way, by Zach Kiefer of the athletic on Chris Scho

about two weeks ago. Really? Yeah, it was a, to me, like, I loved watching this defense. I had a lot of fun watching them, watching the go. And a lot of it is, you know, there's like a newish thing, you know, because it's a lot of unknown names, not a lot of household, you know, players here on this defense. So just talked about the young guys up front, but on the back end, you know, it's kind of a hodgepodge group.

We have Darius Williams, who was a good playmaker for them when the Rams were going to Super Bowls, but, you know, it's kind of aged out of that kind of profile still can be a playmaking corner for them. Kobe Durant was a former fourth round pick out of South Carolina State. To me, he's their best corner. Quentin Lake, a day three pick a couple years ago. He's their nickel. Cam Kinchins is a rookie. He's really come on.

He's had three picks in the last few weeks. He's won a rookie of the week, too, the past three weeks that. Yeah, he's, he had a game, game ending interception for them a week ago in that win. You know, Cam Curl, who the Eagles should know well, was a safety for the Washington commanders. He's there basically playing in the same role. Often used as a blitzer on third down, down safety, a lot of box play from him. He'll match up against tight ends. It's a fun group.

They fly around. I enjoy, I enjoy defenses that throw all the funky pressure looks at you, and that's this group to a tee. I mean, they're going to line all of these guys up. it's you know it's this is not going to it kind of goes to what we were saying last week you know all right well this is going to be lane johnson is going to see dorrance armstrong like no lane johnson's going to see a little bit of everybody he's going to see a lot of jared vers but he's going to see some young he's going to see some braden fiscke he's going to see coby turner uh the michael hoit number 97 converted defensive tackle who they last year moved to defensive end and they're like dropping him in coverage and he's like 280 pounds dropping as a middle hook defender this year they're playing him still off the edge but then also as like a joker and they're moving around over the center and there are reps where he's like playing as like a standup linebacker

like he he's like a tasem hill defensive version of tasem hill where it's just like this big white guy and you're kind of flying around but it's a fun defense what's that i i i i i i i i i That's right. Yeah, I know one of the the spelling to pronunciation biggest mystifying ones if you're trying to teach someone how to spell like how to read. Yeah. H-O-E-C-H-T-T. Hoyt do you get Hoyt. Yeah.

I don't know. I couldn't tell you, but made it up. I know. Wait, what? I don't, I don't have the answer for you at all. Okay. How do you feel about this team in Los Angeles having two players named Kobe on? defense both spelled different ways and neither of them like Kobe I think just in terms

of following the draft I will say that they're like every year now you're saying more and more Kobe's coming coming through the NFL and I'm all different like spellings like there's the there's the kid in Seattle Kobe Bryant from Cincinnati he was COBO B Y this year there's one that's C O B E E there's there's Kobe or Durant here with the Rams who C O B I E so saying all these He's a Kobe Turner is K-O-B-I. Correct. So there's that...

What do you like best? I like the O-G. I like K-O-B-E. I kind of like C-O-B-E. C-O-B-I, like Kobe Jones. Okay. And Kobe Jones, like, B-E-A-U, X-Best for Bo. How fun is Jared first to watch?

He's, I mean, he's a guy that is just going to run right through you. There's not a lot of mystery to the way he plays. He's a physical, powerful bullrusher that's just going to run right through your face mask. So if you're going to... It feels like the kind of matchup that Jordan Mila can do okay with. Yes, I do like this matchup for Jordan from that way. He is the type of rusher that I think Jordan can hold up okay from that standpoint. So, yeah, I agree with that.

So what about game plan-wise for the Eagles? Yeah. Are we talking, let's say, Kuanita again? I think there will be opportunities there. I think you can create movement against this group. To me, what's going to determine how this offense, performs is how does Jalen perform against pressure? Uh, you know, because again, he is going to get pressured. There are going to be sacks likely. You've got to avoid the disaster play that tilts the

game. Don't turn it over. Don't be forced to throw in an intercept because this is an opportunistic defense. We talked about kinchins, Darius Williams. Remember Darius Williams had that crazy leaping interception back was that that was 2020 right against Wentz in the end zone in the home game here at Lincoln Financial Field. Uh, you know, he, you know, Kobe, Kobe Durant has done a nice job of of taking the ball away as well over the course of his career. He's been a very productive player at time. So when you look at the secondary, they can be very opportunistic. To me, the big thing is opportunities will be there,

don't have those negative plays, turn into disaster plays that can tilt the game. Because they should win these matchups in the outside. I mean, the second, you mentioned, like the secondary has not been good for the Rams. So like, over time. As you wrote, the biggest mismatch in this game is the Eagles wide receivers against the Rams players.

AJ Brown, Devante Smith, against those corners in the outside. Like that over time, that talent should win out. So you just have to make it so that you know, you're not throwing interceptions and getting sack fumbles that to turn those matchups. What do you think we're going to like if Devante can't go, Zach? What would we see? Well, Johan Dotson. And I would guess more Johnny Wilson, former teammate of Jared Fisk and I'm sorry of Jared Verris and Braden Fiske. Yeah.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Johnny Wilson's pushing to be that like number two receiver if Devante were down over Dotson. But yeah, I am curious about the Devante thing because I had the same sentiment that this was a week where they can beat you through the air. But if Devante is not out there, maybe it's a force-feeding AJ game. Maybe it's making sure AJ gets the 12, 15 targets type type thing. But it is, I would guess more Johnny Wilson, some Jehan Dodson. And then you rely on Goddard as well. Goddard had a big game against this team last year. Devante only had like one catch for six yards, I think, in this match up last year out in L.A.

It was something like that. It was one of his lowest performing games of the season. But AJ had a huge day. And Goddard, he went like six for 123 in a touchdown, I think, in that game against the Rams. Yeah, remember there was a long catching run. Yep. AJ had that long catching run just for half as well. So, yeah.

The Rams game that's in my mind, and I watched it live, was against the Cardinals. When the Cardinals blew them out, Marvin Harrison had a huge game. And so something to watch with AJ Brown. Yep. There you go. Anything else to pick apart on this. match it. No, I think that's a big one. It's a look, this

defense. You're a little bit, you're a little bit on edge about this matchup. I honestly, I think that it's the, we were obviously very excited about last week's game against Washington. You thought there was a path to a blowout. Yeah, and I do think there's a path to a blowout in this game, but I think there's also a path. All the same things you worried about with that team

and that game, I think are still present here. It goes that Washington defense is not very good, but they can create pressure and they can take the ball away. I would say the same thing about this group. And so I don't think this is, not that the Eagles would take them lightly because they've had some really good battles against this team over the years. But I think that this is one where this Rams team can bite you. And so you want to have to make sure that things are buttoned up, especially having that West Coast trip.

It's the last one of the year. Like you can't just sleepwalk and went through this game. Another name that I like. Okay. The defensive line coach. Giff Smith. Giff. Giff is a funny name, huh? Is it a Giff or G? Could it be a hard G? Was that hard G or soft G?

J. You know what? Honestly, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. He was the interim coach last year for the Chargers when Brandon Staley was dismissed. Really? Yep.

Wow. I thought it was a favorite. We would know that. Giff. Hmm. A little giffy. Dynamite contribution. Bet 365 has 90 million users worldwide

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Use the code P-H-L-Y-365 to sign up, deposit $10, and place a bet for $5 to get $150 in bonus bets. bonus bets can be used on the spread totals player props futures and more fran it's Thursday night football it's that time of the week we got we got Steelers we got Browns hmm I got look at the spread I feel Steelers do Steelers in this one uh this defense is is humming stuff to pick against Steelers right now yeah it's supposed to be nasty weather tonight plays more in the Steelers hands I like that I mean yeah what wouldn't play more in their hands in this matchup Hmm. True. Anyway.

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At Bet365, 21 or older and physically located in Pennsylvania. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call or text 1-800 gambler. On my phone right now, I have GameTime, the GameTime app, King Zach Clippers at the Intuit Dome on Friday. I'm really trying to get to this game, and I don't have tickets. I don't know if I'll be there in time, but if I am, the place where I'm going to get tickets will be the game time. app. And I know that I can go to Game Time Picks to find the best deals. Game Time has

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But you know what I like the most is that they have the all-end pricing because what I don't want is to get excited about a seat, you know, maybe the terrace level, and it's the third row in the terrace level, and it's looking really good. It's like it's dropping, you know, below $50, and I'm getting excited,

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Game Time. We don't usually spend time on special teams, but just to mention it, Los Angeles 28th in Special Teams DVOA, struggling, kicking, and also in kickoff coverage. So potentially an opportunity for the Eagles. to return one, although we haven't seen that many opportunities. No, but maybe this is a Britain Covey Cooper DeGine, part return

opportunity. There you go. Okay. The chat did confirm it as a soft G. For GIF. GIF Smith. No, it's a GIF. But if it was, or wait, GIF is soft and GIF? Oh, no. Now I'm lost. Shout out to Dean, though,

who said that G needs a blue chow. Yeah, that's fair. Speaking of bluechoo, I do see a question the chat sec. Curious, we know how much you like Adam Schaefter. If you had ever broken news post-coital. Or mid. I mean, I have a lot of respect for Adam Schaefter.

Yeah, no, that's not something I would ever discuss on the air. Number one, I hope to break more news. I'll put it that way. Okay. Okay. I was trying to throw them off. I was about to ask something else here. Oh, with special teams.

I am curious. Obviously, last week, Jake Elliott had a tough game. Josh McCarty, the rookie kicker for the Rams, he missed a field goal he should make. So pay attention to the kickers in this game. I think it's really going to be interesting to see if Jake Elliott, who has deserved built equity with the Eagles, if he can get off this skid.

because really before this game, he was inconsistent, right? He hasn't made kicks from 50 yards. And I also want to see if it affects Nick Siriani's decision making. You know, Sean McVeigh, as you wrote in your notes, is conservative on fourth down. Nick Siriani's been aggressive on fourth down. But I'm curious if he'll operate the same way or if on some of these 50-50 decisions,

he's more apt to be aggressive because Jake L. struggle. I did want to bring that up about what I wrote about it because I special teams adjacent in that McVeigh is very conservative on fourth down. They're happy to settle for a kick, whether it's a punt or a field goal attempt. They have been not good, bottom part of the league in terms of red zone and third down offensively so far this season. And even those numbers have even carried through to when everybody's been healthy.

So they just haven't been as good on third down in the red zone. The Eagles have been very good defensively third down in the red zone. in this game, and this is like you and Dana's a bit when you're talking about like the money downs and stuff. But in this game, I think it is very important because you want to stop them on third down because they're not going to go for it on fourth. I think this is a game where I think that very much matters. I have so much respect for Professor Selman. He's brilliant. He's great on our show.

There's a butt coming here. There's a go. But I disagree with the analogy that third down is like the makeup test because it's within the, you know, like I suppose. the makeup test will be going for it on fourth down, right? You have a third down is within the time frame that you have to finish the, you know, it's like it's part of you're being graded for first, second, third down, so to speak, right? You don't need to make anything up. You get the down.

But it is a makeup test in that, in his analogy, at least. It counts the same as the regular test. So, yeah, if you get it, if you get the same, if you get an A the third time around, and it still counts as if you had gotten an A on the first time, it's the same. you still got the A, but you had to work harder to get it. No, I understand that, but it's like, you know, if, when you get the syllabus before the year, that test is on there, right? It's not your, you're not, it's not an additional test to try to make up for what you did before.

You don't have to take that test if you get it the first time or the second time. Yeah, but that wouldn't be a makeup test then. A makeup test would be if you don't pass the course or you don't have the score, you need to add an extra test on. No, there are, there are, there are classes. where it's like you're allowed to revise your essay or something like that for free credit. But like without without a penalty and you just get the new grade. I just think this, like third down is part of the, it's part of the course.

It's not, but it doesn't have to be. That's the whole point. I know it doesn't have to be, but it, it doesn't have to not like, we don't need to go down this rabbit hole. I'm closer to your end of this argument, Zach. I do think that third downs are certainly important. I get the, we don't want to go. You don't go overboard. Of course, it's hard to do well on third down.

Yes. Yeah. It's not a tell-all about whether or not. On offense, you don't have to get to third down. Right. It's also less predictive. It's much more just results-based. Yes.

Okay. Anyways, I just disagree with that analogy, is my point. Okay. Well, you're skipping towns tomorrow so you won't even get to hash it out with that. Well, no, I shouldn't even brought it up on the show. That was my fault. I think it's fun, you know? Pressure makes diamonds.

I look. forward to speak to the professor someone about it. I will actually come up with a with an analogy that I think is is more at. I was thinking I remember playing at one point Mario Kart and I was younger. How much younger? How much younger? Probably back in the N64 days. I didn't have it but I would go over a friend's house and play Mario Kart and if you finished

like the course in a certain you know you got that time at you got the extra time added to your next one right? So getting first or second down would be like getting that extra time added to your time. That's the best analogy, but I'll continue brainstorming this workshop. You keep working on that. Okay, thanks, Bill. Thanks, Bill. Okay.

I just disagree with the makeup test analogy. I think it's actually a pretty good analogy. I know you do. I'm not here to guess. I know you do. I mean, the guy thinks Sequin Park is the worst player in football. He's been awesome. Andrew Walmsley checks in.

the chat toad is the goat Mario cart racer and Andrew you are a thousand percent correct okay is anybody ready for swooper or should we is there any more football discussion and then of course stick around because we got Jordan rodrigue come up and it's a very insightful interview we had a good time no i think uh i think we hit on the big stuff obviously anything if you want more info on the matchup go check out the uh my fill notes over on all p h o y dot com all right last week's swooper go ahead and then just one other thing to add to because we spoke about this being a tough road trip. And Boe pointed this out in a conversation yesterday,

the next night the Ravens are playing in L.A. Right? So the Ravens are playing at the Chargers, and that's relevant because the Eagles will play the Ravens next week. Right. So it would have been otherwise the most difficult little back-to-back stretch having to cross country and then go on the road again is a little bit easier.

And coaches will tell you like two weeks. This is very like, you know, football guy thing two weeks that are really tough in in the football building are Thanksgiving and Christmas right because like you don't really have the full workday sometimes or players players my goddamn family so you can I took this job so you can imagine in Baltimore's building they get back like really you know they they get back Tuesday morning and then already you know you're recovering Wednesday Thursday should be Thanksgiving but you know or it is Thanksgiving but you know you got to approach it. This generation, this generation of players just insists on spending time with their

family. So it's just interesting that both teams that are playing next Sunday in a huge game are playing in LA, prime time games this week. Do you think the Harbaas will have a makeshift Thanksgiving dinner together on Sunday or Monday? Probably so. Short week, you can't jeopardize the preparation. So now it's serendipity that the family's together. You say, you know, Thanksgiving's not when it falls on the calendar. Thanksgiving's when the family's together. right so you can you can enjoy turkey and stuffing and all the good stuff you ever had turduckin i've never had turdokin i've never had turdokin yeah that's good yeah that's good i remember john madden holding it up but never had turducking ever been cutting in with his hand yeah yeah i don't know something

all right last week's super results zach you had the eagle score touchdown on their first offensive drive did not happen you had jack gerts has more receiving yards than dallas goner did not happen although if it had been fantasy points, it would have happened. And then you had the Eagles hold the commanders to 22 points or fewer. You nailed that, so you had one. I had Jalen Hertz has more rushing yards than Jaden Daniels. That did happen. I had Daniz's item number 12 will be the Eagles win the game.

That did not happen. I had one of Vinny's former teammates gets a sack or Jack Drescoe plays an offensive snap or someone does a wrestling themed celebration. That was the Vinie Curry woo-woo. That did happen, Braden Graham, with the sack. but Johan Dotson did not set a season high in receiving yards so that was two for me. Fran, you had any player in the game finishes with the passing, rushing, or receiving yards ending in 75, did not happen, or Vinny

Curry shown on the broadcast. You had Jalen Hertz scores on a brotherly show, check. Jalen Hertz throws a pass two-way target in the end zone from 10 to 19 yards away, checked. Who did that led two or three times in the game? They did. Zachertz is tasked with blocking Brandon Graham on an offensive play. Now this... He blocked him. He tried to block Brandon. to gram on an office to play.

Yeah, he deserves credit. There's no doubt. There's no, there's no, there's no. He don't know. You wrote it as tasked. We don't know that that was his job. He could have been feeling it. He deserves credit.

We'll check the BFF numbers and see how they're reporting here. And then you had the Eagles win the game by double digits. It just didn't happen for now under protest. You have the win. So you have 4.33. I have 2.83. 1.5 behind. Zach is 2 and a half behind at 1.83.

Fran, you have four turkeys robbed from you this week. So you will start with 20. Zach, you have an extra six, you will start with 30. I have an extra 11. I will start with 35. The order this week, Fran, then Zach, then me, then the Dana's submissions. If you don't know how the game works, good on you. We're going to just follow along.

Fran, you get to start. All right, first one. Let's go to Devante Smith. Devante Smith has at least 60 yards receiving in the game. Now, the reason why I picked 60. he's averaging 57.3 yards per game on the season. He's had two straight weeks of under 30 yards after two straight weeks of over 80. And he was over 75 and five of his last seven games of his first seven games, I should say, of the season.

Last year against the Rams, he had one catch for six yards. We talked about how he has not practiced so far this week. So that goes into the picture as well. We will start the bidding at two. Devante Smith has at least 60 yards in the game receiving. This is tough, given the, the injury. I'll say three.

Three to bow. Four. Four to Zach. Good one, Zach. Good one. Where is that going once? I'm going to say five. Five to bow.

I want to save turkeys. No. Thanksgiving's going up. Five to Bo going once. Six. Six to Zach. Tavante's number. Six to Zach going one.

six to Zach going twice. A little worried about the thing. Six. Six to Zach. All right. Over to you, Zach. So this also has to do with the Eagles wide receivers. A.J. Brown and Devante Smith combined for more receiving yards than Cooper Cup and Puka

Nakua. This is one that I like to do when it's two great wide receiver combinations. And I will start to bidding out one. Two. Three. Oh, three to go. Four. Four to Fran. Five. Six.

Oh. Six to Fran. Interesting, that you'd be more willing to go for this on six than the Devante one itself. Six to Fran going once. Six to Fran going twice. Man, no faith. I'll take it. I was planning on bidding on this, and then I bid on the Devante one. I was debating which one's more likely, and I said, well, if Devante plays, I'm going to go with the Devante one. This will be three submissions in a row that are related to Devante Smith. Mine is Devonte Smith will be the target of Jalen Hertz's first pass of the game,

and I will start the bidding at two. Three. Three to five. Three going once. Three going twice. You too. Goodbye. You go more than that one, Bo.

You're also allowed to bid. I know, but I'm already down the 24. He already has one item, though. Yes. It's not. All right. What we got? One second.

Oh, gosh. Oh, boy. All right. The Eagles score a touchdown on their first offensive drive, or Matthew Stafford has a scramble, or the Rams run a play with a sixth offensive lineman, or an Eagles corner gets an interception. None of those four things have happened all year long. I like a poo-poop ladder. We know you do.

Who starts to bidding? Whoever wants to. One. Two. Three. Three to Zach. Four. Four to fray. Four going once.

Four going twice. Can't get the fifth one. Can't get that first. Was that a bid? Okay. Five going once. Five going twice. I can take it.

I'll take it. So what was it? It was Eagles score. Eagles. Touchdown. Touchdown drive. Is it only one occurs or any of them occur? Any of them occur?

Any of them. Okay. Stafford. Strambles. Yep. The Rams six offensive linemen, which I'm sure it will not happen. And then a corner interception for the- Maybe Queenian gets his pick this week.

Yeah. Battle for defensive rookie of the year. All right, over to Fran. All right, let's go back to Matthew Stafford. All right. So Matthew Stafford has a sub-100 pass rating. So basically 99.9 or below. Some background here.

Eagles have allowed just one quarterback all season hit that mark. That was Kirk Cousins back in week two. Stafford, though, has hit that mark twice in the last four games. And against top defenses last year, he faced two top two past defenses last season, Matthew Stafford. he averaged a 106.4 pass rating did actually very well against the two elite past defenses he faced. So Matthew Stafford has a sub 100 pass rating to the Eagles stop him. I'll start the bidding it too.

And by the way, a popular topic of Nobuquer this week is how Bill Belichick once called upon Vic Fangio to help devise that game plan because Sean McVeigh said Vic Fangio's scheme was the hardest to coach against. So these bidding starts at two. I'll go three. Oh, three to Zach. Four. Four to Fran. Yeah, I'm always impressed when Fran bids on his own items because that makes me think he's confident in him.

So I will go five. Six. Oh. Six to Fran. Six to Fran going once. I'll say seven. Oh. Seven to bow.

So many bow going once. It's a good one. I want to go, but. I can't part with that eighth one. Going twice. No, I. Go ahead. You have a bell for me.

You have it. That's a good one, though, for you. Good job. I love that one. Okay. Jake Gelliot does not miss a field goal. So this... Specifically, field goal.

Yes. Specifically, a field goal. And it's not that Jake Gelliot makes a field goal. It's right. So if he does not attempt a field goal, you still win. Got it. And this is one. I'll start with.

Two. Three. Oh. Six. Oh, six to bow Uh, seven Wow Seven to Zach

Eight Oh, eight to bow What am I at 26 Or 24 rather Eight to bow going once You can have a for eight Oh

Oh Nine Nine Nine to Zach Nine to Zach Nine to Zach Nine to Zach You don't want it, though?

none of that going twice you should go both oh man he was trying to stop for 10 oh there you go he can have it for 10 wow roller coaster of emotions there

yeah I was going to do it until you until you very plainly were trying to get me to do it that's a good one for you too I like your chances this week thanks we love the advice from the guy

who's losing the game all right we have another devonte smith submission oh wow devonte smith is the target of gielan hertz's second pass of the game i will start the bidding at two two to bow three three to fran this is a fun one it's a good one you're yeah it's a good one you have six turkeys on right yeah but an upside of both yeah three to fran three to fran going once three to Fran going twice that's a good one

I'll take it I'll start being more aggressive now oh now all right all right this is the first part of it oh no a fixed price

auction with increasing item value so this item will cost five turkeys no matter who wins it Julia will begin at whatever it is at 10 and count down from 10, 9, 8 until someone yells swooper. So this item is going to cost five turkeys, and Julia is going to be the countdown auctioneer for us until somebody else swooper. And we don't know what the item is yet.

Yep. The item is. Oh, okay. You understand? No. No, I thought you were going to say the item. Yeah. I didn't know if we were.

Okay. Yeah, we have to see what the item is. I don't know if it's the type of thing where you were. But you understand the mechanism. Yes. No, wait, so it's counting down from 10, but it's going to cost five. It's going to cost five no matter what. But the item that we're going to find out, it's going to be something where the value of it varies.

You'll see. What the item is. Do I start at 10 as soon as I reveal it? Well, no. No, you can look at it. Okay. Once I finish reading, you can start counting. Okay.

All right. The item is. Devante Smith has at least. Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. This item's going to be worth five, but whoever yells Swooper at whatever number is.

Okay. That makes sense. Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay. Ten. Nine.

Eight. Seven. Six. Swipper. So he has at least six catches. Look at Zach. He looks like he's Shepter and Ben. I can break the Dale Carter News then.

then everybody will remember you forever you'll always be known for that so if if davante cout is out of this game it's umontay smith has six catches for 60 yards i i hit on two swoopers and so i paid i paid five turkeys for that although if he gets uh if he gets targeted on the it's the first two passes for jalen herds i also get two swoopers there you go all right friend your final my final one just to reset that you have eight left sack has 18 i have 13 Okay, my final one. The Eagles score first in the game. Now, the Rams have not scored a point in the first quarter in seven games this season,

which is second in the NFL behind only Philadelphia Eagles. Obviously, the Eagles have scored in the first quarter lately the last couple weeks, but the Rams have not scored in the first quarter in seven games this year, and it's been on a streak. I think the only time they did it was back early in the season. So I will start the bidding at two. Two to Fran. Three.

Three. Four. Four. Four. Four to Fran. Five. Five to Zach. Six.

Six. Six to Fran. Seven. Eight. Oh. Eat to Bo. Damn it. Yeah.

To bow. Going once. Eat to bow going twice. Sold. I'm out. So how many turkeys does everyone have? You have 18? I bet.

You have 18. No way. I bet six and five. It's six and six. No, because the Montesmith item counting as five. You're right. You're right.

You're right. You're right. So he's got 19. Jeez. Could have been fireworks. You have 19. Fran has eight. I have five.

Okay. All right. You're final. I just want to carry over to next week. Okay. This item here. It's got a number. The Sixers win before the Eagles.

So the Sixers have two games before that Eagles game finishes. They play six o'clock on Sunday. So that's one of the game. So that game will finish. And now, Now, if the Eagles lose, then it extends to... Ooh, I like this one. Yeah.

So that's... This is your best submission ever, that? The Sixers are two and eleven. The Sixers are, what, two and eleven, two and twelve right now? Something like that. Yeah, so there's a chance of sixers might go up here at a time without winning. But every night, I text my brothers. I bet on the Sixers tonight.

They're going to win. I was like, last night, last night I was so confident. I was like, you know, the story comes out about the meeting. Every night. game all three guys are playing i'm like they're right it's memphis come on yeah so every time mbd left the floor he collapsed on the floor like he could not stick a landing the entire night it's tough to watch i will start the bidding at five five to sack good bid i can't bid i'm not i'm not taking that one you just said how how you've been saying they're going to win every night and they keep losing so

i'll let you lose you have a week and a half of this yeah so yeah so yeah Yeah, that's a good one. Ooh. I like that one. Sixers win before the Eagles. All right, my last one. Devante Smith is targeted on Jalen Hertz's first pass of the second half. And I will start the bidding.

Let's say two. Three. Good friend. How long did it take you to come up with yours again? Just the same one. Like they can see. Three to Fran. Man, I am screwed if Devante does not play.

Yeah, I mean, I hope. I would be two. I'm on Galulium. Let's see. I'm down the 14 turkeys. If I need some items here, let's go four. Four to Zach.

Just to get in the game. But that's my third Devante item. What you have four? Not for me. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to do it. So you didn't come away with one of your submissions. that's true

I would have been happy to yeah all right entering the final day news we have eight for Fran 10 for Zach five for me okay here are the rules

item 12 reverse Dutch auction I love a reverse touch really begins at zero and slowly counts up one turkey at a time until two of the players yell swooper out

meaning that they are out of the running for the item the remaining player wins the item and pays the last number that Julia said, players can borrow turkeys from next week. We understand? Good. Okay.

Okay. And the item. The Eagles win the game by more points than the last number, Julia said, at the moment, the first player yells swooper out. So the earlier the first player says swooper out, the more valuable the item becomes for the others. Now, the line for this game is...

Give me a minute. Bet 365. Check out, Bet365 here. Three, I believe. The line is three. Interesting. Yeah, two and a half. Two and a half in favor of the Eagles.

Okay. And if you don't bid, so you have to say super out. To be out. If you don't say anything, you're going to win the Eagles. item yeah okay all right everybody understands yeah yeah all right Julia you ready yeah okay starting with zero one two three three four five six seven super out super out seven seven seven no eight.

At eight. You did get eight in there? So you're paying eight and they got a win by eight. Paying eight they got to win by eight. Yeah, I'll take that. Especially because I had eight left. I'm not carrying over any of the next week. Win by at least eight.

I believe it's at least. Yes. This was a fun one. I like this one. By more point. No, no, not at least eight. By more points. So nine more.

So they must win by nine. by more than eight okay that's a fun one I like that one yeah well I think I I'm happy I didn't but I think the

I mean this it's crazy how much this one just hinges on Devante yeah really I mean this entire thing that's gonna hinge on Devante Fran you have AJ and Devante have more receiving yards than Cooper Cup and Pook and Akua Devante is targeted on the first pass

of the game by Jalen Hertz Devante is targeted on the second pass of the game by Jalen Hertz and the Eagles win by nine and you're used up a clean full 20 perfect turkey it's nice job Zach you have Devante goes for at least 60 yards was it at least 60 or over 60 I think at least 60 okay uh you have Delante has six catches the sixers win before the Eagles win and Devante is targeted on the first pass of the second half by Jalen Hertz now if Jailen Hertz gets knocked out that does not count uh I'm okay I didn't think I did say Jalen Hertz All right, I didn't think about that.

I have the pooh-poo platter of first-time things that could happen for the Eagles. Wait, wait, can we put that one up again real quick? Because if we're being technical on the pooh-bo platter, Dundez's first, because in the chat, they were saying that only one of them can occur based on the way. No, no, no. It says or, or, or, it doesn't say only one. Ores are inclusive. Okay.

I was just going based on the chat. I believe in a populist view of the show, but okay. if you scroll up they were saying uh but who would you like to demonize as part of that populism zach who like to demonize yeah wait what do you mean i'm not following you okay that tracks uh i have also matthew stafford has a sub 100 passer rating jake i do not miss a field goal and the Eagles score first in the game I have five turkeys left over Zach you have 10 turkeys left over all right anything else the chat says there's a difference between or and and or yes yeah but there's it's not only one if it has to say only one thing happens I agree I agree I write it as

that was inclusive well no I'm not taking I'm not taking grammar advice from them they're saying this happens or that happens or that happens or that happens it's not and if three of those things happen one happened and another one happened or another one happened or another one happen they all those things happened um i'm just i'm listening to the chat but you're wrong what are the technological advances that you uh add to your list so one that i originally had meant to have on there so originally my list was too and i've forgotten about the other one electric toothbrush okay like the electric toothbrush yeah that's a good one no real downside to i mean it's a little expensive but that you know you got to do what you got to do um i should

Shout out to, I had a sicko in the wild. Oh, talked to me that day as I was walking around town. I think I wrote his name down. Scott, I want to say. He brought up GPS, which has been a popular, he said, Zach brought up Google Maps. He thought GPS is the one that it actually should have been. But I don't know, because then you play it down.

Like, I don't know, are we really happy that Apple knows where all of us are every single minute of the day? Like, is that a good thing? You like the surveillance state? I think there's some, I'm talking about unequivocal goods. I like my GPS. Yeah. I like the GPS. Okay.

Let's see. What else I have on here? Now, contact lenses was told to me because, like, the improvement in technology within contact lenses has been tremendous. I'm improving, or including that with your medical stuff? Yeah, I feel like that's a little bit too on the nose of medical stuff. Okay. I like the suggestion of the tap-down water bottle refill, like the water fountain where instead of it coming up, it can also come down so you can put your water bottle on the knees.

I like that one. That is a nice, perfectly functional, helpful thing that's not hurting anybody. So I'm in on that. And then I saw somebody on, I don't remember which social media service was, brought up the zero-turn tractor. Now, I'm not a tractor guy myself, but I'm into that. like that feels that's not hurting anybody it's improving things a little bit i'm okay with that the zero turn tractor meaning like it's like you know you can just sort of swivel it like it's you know you're getting better coverage that way okay you're sitting here you've a computer in front

of you you have a cell phone next to you you have a cell phone next to you have lights over your head you have lights oh we're going all the way back to edison now you have heat in this building you you drove here on a car there were stop lights on the car but you drove here in a car there's stoplights on the the the the roads are paved um yeah i'm not saying no i'm talking about in my lifetime we're at the seventh floor of a building there's there's an elevator to get you up here not for you my my like this is such a ridiculous conversation like to me um i'm flying to los angeles this uh this weekend so many of those things of so many of those things in You're not dipping me anything other than the laptop on the phone.

So you're already, I have no choice. Your argument is only in our lifetime. Yeah, we already talked about it. That was the beginning. If you go back, so you think that.

There is one other one. Okay. HD television. I mean, within my lifetime, the improvements of just being able to see what's on TV. Isn't it crazy though? When you see like,

when you see the SD clips and you're like, man, it did not, I don't remember it looking that bad. Like, when I ever see like old clips, you know, like, man, I don't remember it looking that bad. But,

yeah, just adjusted. I mean, the I don't this is befuddling to me like I I know you like to play

contrarian against me but this is befuddling to me and by the way I just want to clear one thing up because this has rankled me you said that I was defending the thumbs up

as an advanced meeting technology when I did not do that we're specifically that's been rankling you we were specifically speaking we were specifically speaking about changes in iOS the operating

systems. No, we weren't. All our stuff is recorded, by the way, with cameras that did not exist in 1986. On a mechanism, these cameras, these types of video cameras did not exist in 1986. On a mechanism that did not, on a flat panel TV that did not exist in 1986, okay, on YouTube that did not exist in 1986. With the speed of medicine. With the speed of technology, like our, right brothers died for you. Our, I mean, we put food on the table.

Cast away, like I was around a fire. All four of us in this room put food on the table with technology that did not exist in 1986. Like, it is, it's befuddling to me that I'm being like cast it, you know, cast it as in a certain way for appreciating. I'm not saying that there isn't bad that comes with technology. I mean, that's pretty much what you're, what you've been saying. alter at the church of technology. All technology is good.

I think that the, I think technology is a net positive. I don't think this should be a polarizing opinion. I think our lives are enhanced by it. After I finish the show, I can call my wife on this phone. They had car phones in 86. I mean,

you had to be really like, it would be doing really well to have a car phone in 1986. I would imagine, even still, I can't imagine you were calling if your wife's at work you might not be able to get in touch with her

you might have to leave you you couldn't send a text message like everything you know our lives are significantly easier than they were 38 years ago I don't know if that's necessarily true there are challenges that have come with technology no doubt but

there's also great benefits and it would be hypocritical for me and I think for us to bemoan technology when all four of us are the beneficiaries of advancements in technology, is my point. I'm on your side of this argument. I'm very pro-technology, but it is just fun to watch two squirmless over like this. I've got a list of like five things that have been unequivocally good. In 1986, if Fran wanted to get film of the team he was playing, I've spoken to coaches about

this. They had to drive and meet halfway and exchange the film and roll through it and literally cut the film up. Now, two taps, and everyone knows the rules, right? When I first started at Temple in 2006, when we were playing opponents, I had to either send film on the airport, like to throw on tape or DVD to the airport and have it FedEx, or I had to drive and meet them halfway. That was in 2006, not in 1986.

My siblings always joke that when we traveled when I was younger, okay, I would have this backpack, drowning me because I would bring like 15 books, okay, on any. Anywhere we went, we would drive up to Lake Georgetown, I would have a backpack that you couldn't even fit in the car because I had all these books, big, big books. I sound of words. The biggest books. You've never seen books this big.

I used to bring, I used to bring the sports almanac everywhere, okay? And those were like, those were big, and then bring up. And so anyways, and now I'm going to have like five books on the plane this week all on my iPad. It's amazing. So, yeah, I will clearly die on the cell. We don't need to relitigate this, but I will gladly die on the cell. Without technology, you would not have been able to get Sheriff Joe on the Ospreys.

Yeah, that's true. Is that good? Yes, I think for everybody, I can say yes. We have some super chats. All right, super chat from Jack says you don't necessarily know you have a makeup test at the start. Third down is like a second kidney. you know it's there if you need it and fourth down is dialysis

geez okay thanks jack but then what's second down I guess first and second down or the first kidney yeah the second kidney okay not bad

all right anything else I mean I remain unmoved I'm happy to I've already shown I'm willing to accept the good pieces of technology let me know if you have them Badee is in the chat like a bidet

I'm a bidet curious but I know yeah haven't made the haven't made the plunge we got one I see what you did there

yeah I've never used a bidet so I well yeah right she'll swear us by bidet I've never used to why is that obvious

I mean everything we know about you would tell us that that would be a horrifying occurrence for you I've never seen a

bidet like in those seriously I've never seen a bidet where would you find a bidet like a toilet is this something people have in their homes I have one of my home yeah

okay yeah you get to get it like you can get it put in yeah they have it now like it's like an easy attachment right yeah yeah um yeah

good for you I don't cast judgment I don't use a bidet just got like John Madden like with the hand with the turducken. All right. That will do it for this portion of the show. We thank you for watching and listening.

And I will tell you now that as always we love you. But please stay tuned because we have a nice long interview with Jordan Rodriguez of the Athletic. For my money, one of if not the best present company excluded, Beed writer in the game, a star of NFL media, who has not only insight on the Rams, but also the Eagles, given some of

the things that she has been working on. Quickly, a super chat from Jason who says, vests and a sports almanac is Zach Berman Marty McFly. I would love to go back in time, that's for sure. You knew the reference, though. Impressive. The technology would be so much worse.

But you have the technology required to get there. You have the technology now to go back in time, right? I mean, that's... If you could make one trip back in time, what would it be? I would not be doing what Martin McFly did. I'll tell you that. That's not what I would use it for. If I can go back in time, I mean, you can get sentimental with the answer, right?

You know, but if I'm being like... For yourself. So if I take away, you know, like anything that's due with family and seeing people who are no longer here, yeah, I mean, I would obviously like, this is a fairly obvious one. You would, you know, invest in like an IPO of a company that's... I don't know. It's not, it's not the only way I would do, but like, yeah, if you had the opportunity, it forgot that we had already got your answer.

Yeah, I think we've done this already. Yeah, I think we've done this. Exactly. Yeah. But there's other things I, I would obviously do, but, you know, or you would. Mike knew. No, medical. There's, there's, there's medical, you know, I would cure cancer earlier or not cute.

You know, I would have. What timeline are you in? I would have remedy, you know, I would have treatments for cancer at an earlier stage. You know, you can go all the way. back and I have treatments for polio or I don't know your stage right I'm just speaking like practically not like um so anyways uh you know I would warn people about certain things that are coming you know I would go to you know change change the course of history by doing that yeah yeah exactly so I I would tell people like you know get out of New Orleans in 2005 or oh you know there's things

like that there's you know but yeah there's a lot of good you could do for the world that I would do Okay. Including that Apple stock. Yeah. Most of all. Not most of all. All right. Fun episode, as always.

Back tomorrow 2 o'clock with Danis. So we look forward to that. But for now, please enjoy the insightful, entertaining interview with the great Jordan Rodriguez. A nice breath of fresh air here on the P.HLY Eagles podcast as we are joined now by one of the bright stars of NFL media. You know her as one of the best beat writers in the game for the athletic. You know her from the NFL Daily podcast,

The Heed the Call podcast and the Play Callers podcast. Jordan Rodriguez, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule for us. Did you see what I was doing there? I was looking around to see if this person was in the room with me right now. I know. This type of material is what you can expect for me today. I do want to start. As much as we are thrilled to have you here,

I do kind of want to start wondering if you're going to apologize because the Playcullers series that dropped six fantastic interviews with decision makers across the league, five of them with Eagles ties, Alec Hallaby, the assistant GM, Brandon Brown, Ian Cunningham, Kat Hickman, formerly Kat Rache, even John SpyTech. I want to know if you are aware the degree to which you caused my dear friend, Zach Berman here, to lose sleep over you getting all of those interviews.

I did worry about Zach a bit when you texted me. Bo texted me just behind the scenes a little bit. He texted me and was like, I think you're killing, Zach. I was like, oh, no, because it was funny. in getting into those interviews, I started laughing because, you know, you'd ask about past mentors or places where they learned a lot and experienced a lot of different things. And almost always they would bring up Howie and the Eagles. And I started thinking, oh, my God, did I accidentally stumble into the Howie Roseman executive tree? And like, that's what this show should be about.

And somehow Howie has incepted me into doing this because that is how good he is. I had a worry. I was like, did Howie somehow plan this entire thing without me even realizing in my conscience that he did that? So, yeah, it was really funny. I was like, hey, don't pay attention to the last one then because you got to me before all of them had been scheduled and we were getting Brandon Brown on the schedule. And I was like, okay, just avert your eyes for the last one. Go ahead. I know you have lots of questions about those. Well, I would say, even though they did keep me up at night, they were great. You did an outstanding job. Thank you.

And as someone who like obsesses over everything about this organization, I learned a lot from it too. So that's a compliment to you. What I'm curious for our viewers, our listeners, what can be learned about the Eagles organization based on speaking to those who worked here and have gone elsewhere? What's I suppose a differentiator here that you can only appreciate by understanding what happens elsewhere? Yeah. It reminded me a lot of actually what the original series, which was the documentary about the Shanahan McFay coaching tree, it reminded me a lot of how those dynamics were in the early days where they weren't, they were coaching and everybody had a role, but they were also incubating amongst each other and really challenging each other and pushing each other.

I got the sense. And, you know, when you do these interviews, you talk for 30 minutes on camera and you talk for, you know, 30, 45 minutes. off camera or throughout the course of preparing for the interview. And some of the background stories of just the challenges that, you know, the problem solving, the ways that dialogue and like confrontation, but not in a negative way that you would think that word implies more so. The functional conflict of what that space is actually shapes people and helps people grow.

And I think that openness for ideas and argument as well as. agreeing on things was a trademark of a lot of these people that I interviewed as they left the building, they already had that tool instead of trying to learn how to develop it as then a manager of other people and other places. It kind of, it was something that they already had. And it was funny, it kind of bewildered them that they had an advantage in that way, because wasn't this how it was supposed to be? But it's not like that everywhere. And so that's what really stood out to me because when those young coaches left sort of the not so warm or loving embrace of Kyle Shanahan in Washington and Mike Shanahan in Washington, they all had this little edge of problem

solving and kind of looking around the corner to into the why of things that wasn't normal in the buildings they then went into. And it bewildered them as well. Like wasn't this already supposed to be a quality if you're this at this level that you have? And that's kind of it just really was interesting how much the two ecosystemic storylines reminded me of each other. Right. You're pressure testing these ideas. And I do think that like from what we have heard from from inside the Eagles building, it is not a place for for hurt feelings, right? Like you're going to have to deal with these difficult conversations and and accept that it is in theory, at least, in service of getting the best results for the organization.

Yeah, it was interesting too. I mean, there's a callus that forms too. These are tough people. I don't know how else to explain it because, you know, you've got people when we sit, when we plan these out, you know, we don't know how the season is going to go for any one of these teams that these people that are in this series help to run. And there's like this very ultra-confident toughness about. everybody, regardless of the state that their team was in. You know, we don't have to necessarily keep commitment.

I mean, we do, but they don't necessarily have to keep a commitment. If you're the Cleveland Browns and you're in September and royals of dysfunction are already wrapping itself around your building and have, or you're the giants and massive decisions are on the horizon and you don't have to come and do this interview. Like you could say, maybe next year. or like check again later, whatever. I don't want to talk about it. But there is this confidence of, yeah, we're going to figure it out.

And that was really interesting to me because there's not a fear of failing. And I think that comes directly from working in that building that you guys described. It's just like, you're going to fail. And there are going to be years that are awful and you're going to make mistakes. And some people might even lose their jobs, but they're going to keep going because they're so ultra-confident in their process, how they see the game, how they understand and imagine the ecosystems that they create and then maintain. And that just oozed through everybody, regardless of where they were at in their season. And you could have had some stress. I mean, it could have come out. And it just didn't,

inclusive to those background conversations that I talked about. Well, we will get to, you know, the actual matchup of this in a second. But I do have one more follow up because actually you talk about that. And I imagine when you talk to Alec Hallaby, that was a point in the Eagle season where it seemed like it was a little bit on shaky ground and we know that they have turned things around since then because he is the one who will still who is still here. I just want to ask you about him. I mean, this is someone who we expect at some point is probably going to leave to become a general manager.

What were your takeaways from talking to Alec? You know what? I read this really great article by a guy named Zach Berman about Alec Alibi as part of my preparation from going into this interview. And I didn't quite know what to expect at first because I'd heard him talk. He did some interviews because he was on the cycle, you know, getting job interviews last year as well. And I'd heard some interviews.

And I think he, my initial impression was, okay, he carries himself really well. He knows what he's about. He understands, you know, what the context of all of this is that he's experiencing right now. But I was like, man, I really want to know more about how he thinks. And so then I read your article and you really did a great job of diving into how he thinks and how he sort of views the sport from multiple lenses at the same time. And in print, it can come off. You know, you can look at it in one way. And in print, you can really be clear on that because of the way you wrote it and the way that you were able to talk to him and interview him.

But I'm like, okay, can you do it live? Are we going to do this live? You know, and so when we said, when we talked, I was just blown away by him because he is, thinking on, not to sound like too Galaxy Brain on this, but he is thinking on multiple timelines at one time. And you could see, even through the course of me asking, you can see it. And we have, we didn't do a ton of video on these, but I have all the video and of the full interviews. And you can actually see on his face as we talk how he's thinking about my question in the moment and answering that question to the best of and most detailed of his ability. But then he's also thinking

about 16 other things that that question has sort of ignited in his brain of like, oh, and then this door leads to this, and this door could lead to this and then that. But it's all happening at one time. And you can kind of see it all over his face as he's talking. And I think that people who can think like that can one million percent run a building. And particularly with all of the moving parts of every single day of a life in football to have your brain, be able to have the capacity to be in all of those places unilaterally. Like that to me absolutely blew me away. So I have no doubt that he's on to ascending things.

But I also, what was cool about him is he's also very happy where he is because he gets to do a lot. He gets to be in these rooms. He's such a dork about football, right? And like he gets to be in those rooms as well as, you know, you. you know, helping run and manage an organization from an executive level. But like geeking out over cool football at the same time. I mean, that's the dream. So it was interesting.

Like I said, very secure, very confident. And that was that was everybody. But certainly specifically with your question about Alec, that was totally his vibe as well. Go ahead. I have more questions about the podcast. If we want to get to the game. Well, we'll give one more.

Yeah. Everyone go listen to the play callers, please. I know. So my last one about that before we get a cut from that, It was sponsored by ACURA, but I did not get an ACURA. It is a common thread I found through everyone you spoke to was embracing thinking differently. And in a league where I think it could be easy to fall into group think, where it could be easy to kind of go with the consensus, do you find that atypical?

Do you find those executives you spoke to to be different in that regard? And do you think it's organic within them or do you think it's breeded in this organization? I think it's multiple things at the same time. So I'll need to put my haliby hat on here for one second to imagine different scenarios at the same time. That was a terrible joke, guys. Oh, my God. You're already wearing a hat. Why did you even have me on today?

So I think it is multiple things being true. Part of that, I think, is the environment that you're in, Zach, to your point. and the place where you learn that the place where you kind of do your career growing up. I think that is absolutely crucial in shaping how you think and how you see the world of football and then beyond. I also, the point of the show was to seek out those people who had the bright and innovative minds who were ultra-confident in their own very unique set of skills, but who maybe people didn't know as well because they're the guy or woman behind the other person. or behind two other people.

You know, Demetrius Washington in Minnesota, he's Quasi Adolfo Menza's right-hand person, but, like, you don't, you would never know. And so many of the algorithmic modeling and the projections and the things that they use technology-wise and all of the things that they use in their draft process now, you would never know exist because you only see the product and the result of the process less so, maybe the process itself. So that was part of the point of the show was to kind of dig a little bit deeper and amplify people who are different, who think uniquely, who are still, you know, rising and ascending in this league, but who, you know, five years from now you're going to say, oh, yeah, that person was talking about this back then and now everybody in the league is doing it this way. And I think that's where those two spaces meet is like, you know, it was an accident getting all of the Howie Roseman club, you know.

But it was very telling of how the Eagles do things and how the operation does things because those people all had to have that quality embraced and grown somewhere before they could actually get, you know, have this confidence of talking about it the way that they did and imply and applying certain things of their own personalities and their own unique vision in their own separate buildings. It had to be embraced somewhere else first and not stifled. And so I think those are the two truths of it is, you know, it's a yes to both phases of your question, I think. And by the way, we do appreciate the background there.

You have the little thing for the play cards there behind you. Make sure that everybody listens to that series. Now let's talk about the game a little bit. Is it as simple as stopping Cooper Cup and Pookonakua means stopping this Rams offense? I think Pookanakua is targeted at the highest rate of any wide receiver in the NFL. F. Cooper Cup is number two or number three, depending on if you count Rashi Rice. Is it just that simple? I have yet to see this offense function without those two playing at the level that they're playing.

Now, if you're the Rams, the other element of this is for the last 10 games, they've been trying to get their run game, like really firing on all cylinders in the same way that it was last season. And that became their ultimate weapon was Kyron Williams and running a diverse set of concepts. You know, they became a gap team at the beginning of the year. And they were running a bunch of duo and counter. And then they reverted again. And now they're running like their outside zone out of pistol and all these things.

And they became this like amoeba like shape shifting run game that was going to just like hit you in the face. And that really was something that sustained them as, you know, Cooper was off on and off the field last year. And Puka really emerged as the superstar, but this offense has typically wanted to go through to top receivers. And when it was at its apex with Robert Woods and Cooper Cup or when it was at its apex in like that brief glimmer of a window with Cooper and Puka healthy last year, you really saw, okay, if you're going to defend this team, you're going to have to stop the run and you're going to have to figure out a way to at least mitigate some of what those guys can do to you and force Matthew Stafford to like get the ball to DeMarcus. Robinson and Tutu at well and sort of an absent Colby Parkinson this year, but Tyler Higbee last year. But they don't have that fallback this year of that run game yet. And they think they will have it. That's been the emphasis over the last couple of weeks, especially getting their interior offensive linemen back and healthy. But it just hasn't, I haven't seen it. I have no data about

this, right? Because they have not showed it. They've been like woefully inconsistent in that phase. And so they are one dimensional right now. They don't want to be. And like I said, I see progress. And so this is a team that could start to roll. And they have this time of year every, you know, for the last couple of, for the last two years. But I have not seen actual proof this year that there's dimension past. Okay, Cooper and Puka are going to, you know, light the scoreboard up.

Yeah, it's interesting. The numbers say second in rush success rate, but 31st in explosive run rate. So it's like just very blocking just what is given to you and nothing explosive. It's actually kind of familiar to Eagles fans as like the reason for signing say Juan Barclay, a guy who can turn those, you know, five yard runs into 40 yard runs. It maybe is what missing in that offense. But go ahead, Zach. On the other side of the ball.

So I know we're jumping around here. But I'm fascinated by this. Love it. Is that for the past decade before every Rams game, we would go, we'd walk in the locker room, we'd go to the back right corner, and we'd talk to Jason Kelsey or Brandon Brooks about how they're obsessed that week with Aaron Donald. And it was something between Jeff Stoutland and Jason Kelsey, they took a lot of pride in the way they defend or the way they blocked Aaron Donald.

How are the Rams different without Aaron Donald? I know. They made him so mad. It was great. I think that's the only offensive line he that didn't let him have a sack or something like. that there's a crazy stat. He talked about this off season and he said it was like and then Kelsey then responded to it. It was like the plan going in was we are going to double team Aaron Donald on every single snap and it doesn't matter if that means a running back has to block a defensive end.

We are not going to let him beat us. Yeah. And you know what's crazy too? Just kind of to go on like a little rabbit hole on that for a second because I love talking about Aaron Donald. It's crazy. Everyone copied that. Once the Eagles did it one time, everyone started copying almost two. a T exactly what they were doing. It's just the Eagles were so much better at doing it than everybody else. Like, Aaron would talk about how, like, oh, my God, like, three guys slid to me. It reminded, you know, but some of these teams, it did not matter. He was going to eat you alive anyway.

But with the Eagles, I think it was sort of this mutual respect thing that not only could they come up with the blueprint, but they also were the only ones that could run that blueprint effectively against him because he would just destroy every other team that tried. Um, yeah, so this defensive line, first of all, it's been so weird at first not having him in there. And the enjoyment and the just, um, just peacefulness that he approached last season with was very cool and inspiring on a human level because he soaked every moment in, even the bad, the bad times, even the bad moments. Like he was so zen.

It was crazy. I was like, what's going on? Once you realized, once you realized this was his, his final lap, you know, it was just a really cool thing to watch him absorb and process everything about the sport and really observe, like really notice things and like be present and all of those things, which was very cool on a human level. But this defensive line is so much fun, you guys. I know there are a lot of questions coming out about, you know,

trading up for Braden Fisk and the Rams first, first round pick. It's an oldie. Since 2016 in Jared Verse and, you know, Kobe Turner and what's he going to look like without Aaron Donald next to him and Bobby Brown in his. his contract year, can he take a step forward? And what the hell does Michael Hoyt do? You know, like all of these Byron Young following up a good rookie season. And all of these questions were so valid coming in. And they were so valid in the overtime loss against Detroit, where Detroit just ran it down their throats and won and against the Cardinals where they could not contain

Kyler Murray to save their lives. And these embarrassing moments happened to this very young group. and all of a sudden they kind of woke up and they started really putting in these extra hours with defensive line coaches, Giff Smith and A.C. Carter. And they bonded with each other. And they became more of a unit versus kind of solo rushing or hero rushing like they were just trying to like be in the NFL, right? And then all of a sudden they took a step backward and they simplified how they were thinking about rushing the passer and how they were thinking about stopping the run and what they were thinking about their gap integrity and and it worked. And this is this is a group that's for real. And you see it week over week. It's almost simpler, you know, you never don't want to have Aaron Donald,

but in terms of the equation of pass rushing, it's almost simpler for all of these young players to not have to account for somebody who changes the math so dramatically because they're automatic, you're automatically entering like an unknown number into the equation at that point. And trying to figure out what to do around him. Instead, it's like, okay, this is my job, go do the job. And it works for these guys. And this is a group that they've really come to life. They all like each other, which is cool.

They all have fun together. And they are trash talking. And this is the biggest test. I'm excited. This is the matchup I'm the most excited about, aside from anything Vic Fangio is doing right now. Like, this is what I'm so excited about because this is actually the first real test. since they were embarrassed earlier in the season against some bona fide dudes on the other side that will really put them to their limits.

But they're going to be seeing a very different type of assignment and a very different type of, I guess, multiplicity with this group because you're not just focusing on one guy. You do have to account for a lot of other players at this point. Eagles fans, very aware of Jared Ver says the head-to-head for Quinnion Mitchell in the race for defensive player of the year. Zach, I know you need to get to Nick. so I'll let you go because there is some Eagles news. So why don't you go?

I'm going to keep talking to Jordan. Oh, what happened? It hasn't been released yet. Oh, breaking news, Zach Berman. He's on top of it. So he's going to go check in with Nick. He always is. He is.

Speaking of those defensive linemen, verse a little bit, but Fisky for sure, it feels like the Rams, and I know that you did the wonderful Finding Ram series, so I know that you have insight on this. The Rams have had more success than anybody else in the league with drafting olds, these older players who, to me, are like, like, you know, blaring red flags. Why do you think that is for them specifically?

Well, so I have a fun theory, and then I also have the real answer. So the real answer is that they really trust their medical staff. They trust their evaluation. You know, Reggie Scott's been with the organization almost longer than anybody else has been. back from when they were in St. Louis. I know. I was like, oh, hi, Bo. And then the light changed a little bit, you know. So it's like you got a sunbeam across your fest.

Nice. Nicely done. Good production. Very nice. And, you know, they really trust and count on their medical staff. They also are a team that understands, like, it turned, other than very select few players, it turns itself over almost completely every few years. So it's like, okay, we need this window with these guys and trying to maximize

that window, understanding that they move quickly when they feel other than a select few cases, and I think Cooper Cup is one of them, when they feel like guys are just the toll of the playing in the league is starting to, you know, come across their bodies. So that's the reason why they feel comfortable doing it. They like the maturity and the experience as well from a lot of these players and how, you know, things just seem to, they've played a lot of football, so things just seem to make sense a little bit more. And because they like that and they can trust their medical, that's kind of the reason why they like to find those places

where other teams are probably staying away from. The other thing, my theory, this is my fun theory, is that Sean McVeigh is annoyed by young people. Oh, I like this. So he wants you to be like this high mentally to ride the roller coaster. Yeah. So I just think it's like, okay, you just need people who are a little bit more mature. Like you see him go after.

like the veteran quarterback and the veteran backup. He's got no time for that. Yeah, he's like these damn kids. No, I just think I genuinely, that's my theory. So I'm not reporting this. So nobody put it out in an article or whatever. But like my theory is that I just think he just, he doesn't have time for people who are just like a step or two behind.

He just wants everyone to be there. And then you can build from here versus down here. So that's kind of where my personal theory lies on that. I like that. I like that. All right. You have been super generous with your time. I have like two or three quick ones for you.

Yeah, go ahead. The Rams defense, aside from the defensive line, Chris Shula is interesting to us in Philadelphia because the Eagles interviewed him when they ended up hiring Sean Desai. Obviously, we know how that went. They brought in Vic Fangio. The defense is playing as well as it has in a very long time. But what is sort of the identity of a Chris Shula defense schematically going up against this Eagles team? And will they be able to stop a run-first offense?

And Sean Desai is here in Los Angeles, by the way. I forgot about that. Yeah. And he works with, he works specifically with the offense, which is kind of a cool role. He's sort of like a tendency, like a tendency guy, just really helping upload some of the defensive things that other teams are doing in sort of a problem solving role with Sean. That's such an awkward dynamic in the building between him and Shula. Besides like, I got the job you didn't. But she was like, yeah, but you got fired and I'm here now.

If you met Chris, though, so when... It's okay. Sean is very used to awkward situations in the building over the last 12 months. It's just thinking about like how Chris's personality is. So like when people would be like, okay, so what's, you know, who's Chris Shula? Because he's, he's been with McVeigh forever. You know, they were college besties and all of that. And he worked his way up.

He is related to the Shula family. And, you know, but he would never tell people his last name. Like he worked his way up through the ranks position by position trying to coach every position on the defense that he could over a long period of time, like almost eight years before he finally, like, put himself out there for this job. He wouldn't even, you know, ask. He would just sort of go to work, which I really admire about him. But if you, if you met Chris and you knew his personality, you know, remember,

when the movie Barbie came out. This is good that Zach has gone because this would leave the whole thing with him and me. He hasn't seen it. He has to see it. I know, but I can count on you, Bo. He's trying to promote it.

It's okay. Go ahead. I can count on you, Bo. I know I can. So I'm glad that we're going in this direction. So I just, someone said,

okay, you know, this is Chris. His job is defense. You know, like this, that's kind of things just roll right off him. Right?

Like there would be no, there would be no awkwardness. with Chris Shula and Sean or anyone. But Shula, what I really like, I spent the entire summer in training camp and into the fall, even the early parts of the fall, trying to figure out, like, what is it that this guy, what is his it factor?

Like, what is the thing that he does that makes him right for this job, first of all? But then, like, you know, D.C.'s, and Sean has always needed or wanted to have a D.C. with, like, some sort of defining, edge or some sort of defining quality and particularly out of this coaching family with you know the fan geo system and some of that language and all of that well chris i could not find it and i was trying to figure out like what what is that thing and as i watched and so i'm like okay it's my it's it's

on me for not seeing it right and you know me i like i like to dig in as far into the weeds as possible on some of this stuff and i started to really realize watching them just methodically repair areas of their defense piece by piece without any panic or any discomfort and just fully like immersed. Okay, you know, after week three, guys, we really got to fix this defensive line. We got to get these guys up to speed faster. We got to simplify things. We got to get them playing faster and physical and more together.

Okay, hone hone in on that. Okay, you know, week five and onward. Guys, our secondary is a disaster. We have to make some personnel adjustments. We have to play our coverages a little bit differently. We'd like to play more, you know, match man coverage, match zone coverage versus just this, you know, this shell to protect everybody. And we'd like to play a more full iteration of what Chris's vision for this back in 2020 when he identified Brandon Staley for Sean McVeigh, what his vision would be for this defense. Okay, so that fix those things.

And then now you're starting to see them pay more attention to the middle of the defense. And moving around some personnel, Christian Roseboom is playing the best football of his entire life. Omar Spates is an undrafted free agent who's really ascending. and making some changes there. Doing different things with their past rush structures and just the different packages that now they're re-installing and applying

once they cut everything down and simplified things. Okay, you have this guy, Michael Hoyt, who can play a bunch of different roles and do a bunch of different jobs for you. Well, what if you made him sort of like this Andrew Van Ginkle type of role in your Cheetah package where, you know, he could simulate a lot of your pressure,

he can help you with some of your overloaded fronts, but then also he can drop and like clog some of the timing routes in the middle of the field or do different things that are confusing and concerning for a quarterback. And I started to realize as they started doing these little, these little fiddling with the roster and with the scheme over the course of weeks. I was like, okay, that's what Chris's thing is. That's his it factor is he is the ultimate setup guy. He is the ultimate like I am going to find what you're good at and put you there.

Okay. Yeah. And I think that's, that's what is cool because they've not had, they've had like the loud personality on as DC, you know, and loud being, being a good thing. Loud meaning not vocally, but loud like you are a brand, like, or you want to be a brand in the case of Brandon Staley, but like, or you are, you know, Wade MFing Phillips or you are freaking Rahim Morris and you're a head coach and like all this stuff. Well, Chris is really quiet and he just like, he just likes to like fiddle and like build stuff and like

make stuff and like set things up for his players and that's it's just really interesting to me that that has that is how the dynamic now is and it's it's working this defense has played really well through the month of october and first couple weeks in november that's a really long way of answering your question i'm so sorry to me that that he wanted to build a brand but that's a topic for a different time i have a jordan question for you we like to do uh we like to do something called peck nest migrate which is very similar to other games that people might play peck is like we'll call it let's like a kiss uh nest is like a mary migrate you're getting rid of something uh i want i want to know between writing narrative podcasts and then like

let's call them the fun podcasts how would you peck nest migrate those three that's so mean what a mean question i can have it all you can have it all you're jordan rodria you can do whatever you want. You're the star. No. No. I writing is my first love, first and foremost. So I nest writing. It is like why I feel like I'm, you know, on the planet to try to just grow and develop in that space and just try to like get better with everything, especially all the enterprise all or the bigger feature stuff. I hope I can be doing that full time someday, writing those big picture analysis and enterprise stories. Peck, I would probably say, like, doing the Playcaller's narrative podcast or migrate, I guess, would be the one.

Yeah, yeah, probably that. I loved doing it. It almost killed me. So, yeah, I loved doing it, though. I had a really great team that I was working with. And if the right story, like it is, you're writing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that was a ton of writing, which I loved that part of it and the interviewing part was incredible also. I feel I feel like I'm learning more this year about balance than I ever have learned. And so for me, as you are busier than ever. Yeah, just like or what like what to add that makes me happy in order to like kind of just like leave that flow state every once in a while and just do something like that's not even related to projects or stuff that I'm working. And so I've loved doing the shows, the fun shows with Greg and with Dan and Mark. It's just been like an absolute joy for me. And so that would be my peck probably. And I want all of it.

So just I'm greedy. But just if I were going to have to pick one to throw out. Some enterprising company hopefully can make that happen for you because that's what you deserve. All right. I have one last question. This is the most important question of the interview, Jordan. the Eagles thanks to a series of management mishaps let go of a very promising prospect and potential I don't want to say future Hall of Famer but that that timeline does exist how is our friend

Dylan McMahon doing in Los Angeles this was your guy right listen I can't take a solo credit for it. They did draft him in the sixth round, but I mean, you know, the eyes, the eyes, the tape, it all, it all backs it up. I would say, um, good in the sense that he's still there was able that he's there. And he was a healthy scratch for this last game, uh, or an inactive for this last game, but there's a positive on that. That means you're on the roster. Yeah. That means you're on the roster, man. So that's, that's where I'm at. I'm like, okay, they clearly see him. him as a developmental guy that they like. Get that guy in space, man.

Get him down, get him on the second level. He's going to be, he's going to be leading the way on screen. I mean, that's what I, that's what I, you know, there was a time where so Steve Avila, their left guard, he really unlocks most of their screen game and he's very gifted at that because he's got like this very rare combination of size and speed that he can, you know, put you on your ass, but then all of a sudden he's like 20 yards downfield in a blink. And so when he was out, they were trying out different players to put in that role because they didn't,

they just like didn't have a screen game. And so they were trying out different players. And so I got to, I was watching some of the blocking and they had this like little ball of energy who was the center at USC, Justin Dietich. And he ultimately got the job. But it was also like, Dylan was was right in the mix there. And I was like, my God, is it just me or like, are these guys just like bigger and faster than ever? That's a whole podcast for another time, but I know we'd love to get in the weeds on that.

But the way that some of these massive people can move at this point is just, it's mind-blowing to me. All right. Well, Jordan, you have been extremely generous. A little good news, bad news for you there, Bo. That's okay. The timeline is long. It's a long career ahead. And the Eagles ended up releasing Alberto Quigbanom, who they could have done that in August and kept on me.

That's a story for another time. Well, we promised me we weren't going to talk about Alberto on this show anymore. Okay. Jordan, you have been extremely generous. The sickos, you can follow Jordan on Twitter, on Blue Sky now. Read her at The Athletic, listen to her at all her various podcast places. Jordan, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I could have talked way longer, but I appreciate you.

I could have done the whole episode. I know, and I definitely. Say hi to you on Sunday. It's his favorite place in the world so far. He loves it. I know. He really, like last time he was. here, he really made like quite a home for himself in like he he got like the corner, uh,

press box seat like the one that's sort of at an angle. So you get the great corner end zone, all 22 view. And it's like he didn't even mind a lot of people avoided it so far, which is for all its beauty, very structurally confusing in different aspects. Um, he didn't mind that like the aisle that people walk up and down to go to the bathroom or get food was right behind him because this was the corner, right? Like, this is the catbird seat for Zach Berman, where he can watch everything happen and he has space on his left because there's no one to the left so he can set, you know, his whole setup and all of his diligent note taking. And I basically, I went over there and I was just like, you're the freaking man. Like, look at you, you know. Like, I just,

I just, I love that guy. And he's always so nice. Every time he sees me, he, like, talks to me in detail about something I wrote in like a very kind and encouraging way. Like you just don't get guys like you two. He's reading everything. You two are just, you two are just absolute gems of people. And I hope you know that. And two of my favorite people on this planet and this business. So thank you for having me.

Appreciate it. You're too kind. Somebody throw the bag at this woman, please. Let's go. Jordan, thank you so much. And I guess I'll see you in the offseason. I appreciate you, Bo. I'll see you soon.

All right. Back with more on the PHLY Eagles podcast.