PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - How Eagles OC Kevin Patullo can UNLOCK the passing game

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Jalen Hurts to A.J. Brown in the middle of the field? DeVonta Smith expanding his route tree? Bo Wulf and EJ Smith go through some of the things that could get the Eagles’ passing game out of neutral. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's Tuesday? The Eagles are undefeated, and we're going to talk about Kevin Petulow, Vic Fangio. We're going to hear from Brandon Graham, and E.J. Smith is here, even though he's never heard of Limp Biscuit. Coming up next on the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast. Presented by Bet365 and Ashley Boow Wolf. E.J. Smith here. It's the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast. It's a beautiful-ish Tuesday. Actually, I like this is better weather. This is great weather that we've got a little fall. crisp air going on, and we've got the undefeated birds to talk about E.J., how you doing?

I'm doing well. I don't know if, I don't know if this is my type of fall weather. We're getting there. Really? It's a nice morning, but it's a little cloudy, a little rainy. I don't like, I don't like an intermittent rain. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I mean, I have, I've been inside all day, so I missed the rain. This morning. So you're a fraud is what you're saying. It was beautiful this morning. You're being a fraud. If you're saying the weather is great, but you haven't been outside in hours. I'm not best to make me a fraud. I didn't say I have been outside enjoying the weather all day. If this was flipped, if I was like, get out of town. The weather is perfect outside. This is absolutely ridiculous. The weather's amazing. And you were like, were you just outside? It was raining.

And I said, no, you'd be you would call me a fraud. I would not call you a fraud. I would say you missed. The chat knows. Oh, this is absolutely outrageous from a man who's never even heard of limp biscuit. I've heard of limp biscuit. But like, if you asked me like to sing like a song of theirs, I don't think I'm familiar with their game. A little, no culture. A little bit, no culture. That's ridiculous. It's a little bit before my time, just like a hair before my time.

They were formed the year I was born. So like, nobody cares about when they were conceived. Yeah. Well, you care. No, I'm not going there. It's like they probably had their heyday when I was like six. I wasn't listening to Limp Biscuit. Andrew's over here.

He's just two years older than you. Yeah, that's it. That's enough of a difference. Like, because think about it, like, this is like adult content. So, like, if I'm six and he's eight. I don't know if it's an adult content. It's like, it's like, you're not, I guess, yeah, you don't want to be six. It's like 17 or talking about nooky.

If he's like, if he's like 12 and I'm 10, the stuff he can listen to and the stuff I listen to are different. Yeah. I stand by this. I don't really think that not hearing limp biscuit, not like knowing a lot about them is like it's high. That's high culture. It's really not. Like, you got, you got Bach. You're like Do Stoyevsky and then you got Fred Durst.

I don't know any of the things you just said, I swear. Uh-oh, Julia's not going to be happy. Well, I'm not saying I don't like this stuff. I just don't, you know. My like early music is like Jay-Z and Lincoln Park. Like that's like, you can't bring Lincoln Park and then cast dispersions at limp business. I never cast aspersions on them. Man, we just, you want to tell me that's not your genre and you're going,

like you're just a Jay Z guy, that's fine. But then to throw in Lincoln Park. That's representative of the fact that it's before my time. And I didn't say I loved Lincoln Park. I just, you know, listen to JV. Number two favorite band of your youth, basically, you said. Jay-Z and then Lincoln Park and then Lincoln Park. Those are like the early, that's the early.

Connectivity between Lincoln Park and Limp biscuit, both purposefully misspelling words. Yeah, what is a L? And start with an L. I don't know. Yeah. I don't want to know where you're right, where you're, your mind's going to go with that one either. I mean, listen.

Let's talk about nobody. Nobody's mind doesn't go a certain place when you hear the word limp. We are four minutes into the show. We have not gotten started at all. Have the Eagles offense? He goes past a game, a little limp. There you go. Yeah, try to try.

I'm trying people. There you go. It's back on track. Very nice. What a pro. Yeah. Okay. We are going to hear in the middle of the show from Brandon Graham, who has some very

interesting insight as far as I'm concerned about playing for a Vic Fangio and what it's been like with him versus different defensive coordinators, but we will get to that as well. Let's start with the offense. The limp passing game, as you describe it. The flaccid Eagles air attack. Oh, man. We are off to a bad start today.

Yeah, we heard from Kevin Patullo today. I thought, we can go through. It's too easy, Patu Limp. We can go through a lot of the quotes. but I just want to start with my general takeaway after hearing from him. I think, you know, we talked about this with Fran, the film breakdown.

Just kind of the Eagles did seem to come out in this game hoping to take downfield shots to try and be aggressive. I think as the game wore on, Kevin Petullo talked about the fact that he felt like one mistake could have decided the game one way or the other for each team. So I think that they were more risk-averse as the game went on.

And I think that that did show in the passing game sort of their willingness to go away. from those deep shots. After the game we heard from like Jalen Hertz and Devante Smith who talked about the fact that they wanted to chase the game or chase those deep shots to try and be aggressive downfield in the early going and talked about

how they maybe needed to be more patient. I think hearing from Kevin Petullo, it sounds like the reason that they didn't stick with it is because they were trying to make sure they didn't lose the game rather than going out and staying aggressive. How do you feel about that? I've got a lot of thoughts about this, but just about that sentiment.

Buckle in. all of these thoughts. Well, some of them I think will be better as we progress in this conversation. But the big one is I don't necessarily, to me, it's, it's, the first thought is the obvious one. It's like, you have AJ Brown. You've got Devante Smith. Like this idea of like, and you, you should trust Jalen Hertz. He's, he has played well the first two games of the season. So the idea that you don't want him, you don't, you don't want to put him in positions where he could make a mistake or be aggressive and have it cost to team, I think you can trust him enough to trust that he can handle that, that added responsibility.

I don't, you know, the straight jacket as he puts it, that answer speaks to the straight jacket. You know, like, let's make sure that we don't take any shots down field. Let's make sure we don't put too much on his plate. He also talked about the importance of the response to the Spagnolo Blitz package and the frequency with which the chiefs sent pressure at the Eagles. The response was not to take shots downfield. You know, we talked before the game about, you know,

punishing the chiefs. for pressure looks, punishing them when they don't have two high safeties, you know, kind of countering the verticality of the Eagles offense. They didn't really have that as the answer. The answer was to get the ball out of Jayland's hands quickly. The answer was the underneath game, the quick game, side adjustments, stuff like that. So again, I think that it was a cautious approach, especially as the game we're on. And I just, I don't know, the Eagles have enough talent. They had enough matchup advantages where you don't, I didn't feel like that was totally, I felt like they had other options. I feel like they could have leaned on.

do the downfield passing more. Like risk aversion in this case is not like not making a choice. Like it is a choice to be risk averse and in just running the ball every first down and whatever and just playing protect the ball. Like, yeah, maybe you're not going to give the ball away. But you are also choosing to not go score more points.

Yeah. And it's not quite that simple. Maybe we'll still eke out some points. But I just, I'm not saying it was even, the wrong decision in this game. It's just that like you can't think every time we get into a close game, well, now we can't afford to get to the target.

Yeah, we're going to turtle and we're like to try it to the bog offense, you know, then you're not going to get any of those big plays. Yeah. And that's, that is a, uh, that is also an a version of a different kind. I don't know. Yeah. No, I, I feel like it's, it's like the, the balancing act that we're doing this week, where it's like they're two and oh.

They won the game. It worked for them that week. if it is a prolonged thing, if it's something we see more and more of, that becomes a problem. And I don't, I don't really know which way to go with it because I do,

I do not think that, you go full Brian Kelly. You go. Did you see this the other day? He was yelling at, he was yelling at report. The first question was like, how could, you know,

the third down and the offense turned the ball over? What are you doing? Because, of course, he's got to have the fake Southern accent. Of course, yeah. How dare you? We won the game.

What are you? These boys? They work so hard. What are you talking about? How dare you ask that question? How about the defense? What are you talking about? I'm Brian Kelly.

It's a good Brian Kelly impersonation. Thank you. I've got like Brian Kelly fatigue. Ever since you got to LSU, I'm just like. I mean, one of the worst, one of the worst guys out there. I like his quarterback. I like his quarterback too. Yeah.

But, but yeah. Yeah, I also should have been arrested. I'm not touching that one. It's true. He should have been arrested. He should not be allowed to coach. So Kevin Batoa. How dare you bring that up when I'm coaching ball at LSU?

With my family. My family. I don't know if that's Southern. I don't know what that is. Well, that's the one he messed up. Oh, he got that one wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

Sliped back into the Cincinnati accent. Yeah. So again, they're 2 and O. They won the game. And I do think, like, we've seen the evidence that they can, Jalen Hertz can take the straight jacket off as he has talked about. But yeah, I'm just curious to see how this plays out. And I think the other thing that's going to be really important to just monitor over the next

couple weeks is how the Eagles, wide receivers, really A.J. Brown and Devante Smith, how they weather this early season, trying to figure out what you are offensively, trying to figure out the right balance between what we've talked a lot about, like the turnover ofversion, you know, limiting turnovers while also being able to find explosive plays. They're on one side of that spectrum right now where they are being more conservative. They're not taking the shots necessarily downfield. I do wonder how AJ Brown and DeMonte Smith again can kind of weather while they figure this out. Yeah.

I mean, we talked about it last week. You had a very good conversation with AJ. And it didn't really get better. I mean, he got eight targets or whatever it was. But like. A lot of underneath stuff. Yeah. That's not, that's not what they want.

I understand. I know we sound. silly. They're 2 and 0. They just beat the chiefs on the road. Yeah, but the expectations are high. And I think that's- The bar is high. It's supposed to be high. Like, you can accept that.

And they're also allowed to work themselves into the season. Yeah, and he talked about that. That's absolutely a fair thing. And we should remember what it looked like last year. And they deserve some benefit of the doubt. But I do think that the personality dynamics

in the locker room of A.J. Brown and Devante Smith probably being like, can I can I get the ball please yeah um that's real yeah no I think that that and Patoa did talk about like he that they want to be playing their best ball at the end of the season you know you're offensive coordinators talk about that all the time but I do think this is something I actually was talking to one of my neighbors about I was walking the dogs and he was I asked him how he felt about the wind and he was telling me that he feels fine about it and you know this time last year uh you know and I was only brought up to this time last year and I think that that is

an important piece of context to keep in mind is like this time last year they were one and one. They just came off that Falcons loss where we had a lot of questions really about the defense more so, but I mean, even the passing game too. And was this going to be the same version of the offense that we saw the season before? So I do think like when you measure it by that standard of the fact that like this is a team that, you know, for better or worse, approaches the preseason with caution with playing guys, this probably isn't even close to what the Eagles offense will look like by midseason. Yeah, we hope not.

Yeah. So I think like we have like there, it's been two games. It's a small sample size. We are focusing on like, you know, a very, a very limited and like limited subset of what the Eagles offense is going to look like. So I don't think it's like we obviously are going to talk about it. But I think it also is important to remember that it's going to probably look a lot different over the course of the next four or five weeks. But it's something to figure out. I agree.

Anything else on put too. Yeah, I've got some stuff from Putulo for you. He was asked about the predictability of the Eagles offense. Right. You know, the amount of times that they are running at a pistol, you know, after that first new game to us. Yeah. Like 10 straight runs at a pistol. You know, everything is two by two.

Yep. Every first down is a run in the second half. Yeah. So he said that he actually went through the tape this morning for some self-scouting on tendencies. And he said it's definitely on our mind as far as when you play those. things. You always want to make sure, oh, I have a tendency I can break. We definitely need to do that this week. So it sounds like that's something that they are aware of, maybe something that they will adjust in the coming weeks. It is strange to me. You know, I know that Fran had a great breakdown on

the site this morning. Check that out. Yeah, he wrote about how some coaches like when a team feels like they know exactly what's coming because then the counters can be that much more devastating to a defense, but again, we haven't really seen, we haven't seen that. Yeah, and I don't think that's bad either, and you got to, you have to have tendencies to be able to break tendencies. To me, the difference is it's not like, oh, every time they line up in this formation on third and short, this is what they run, or, you know, it's, it's just that everything. Yeah. It's like a limited menu. Yeah. And I don't know. And that, maybe that leads us into another thing I find interesting. Ooh, what a good T. Yeah. Find out what E.J.

finds interesting on the other side of these words from our sponsors. We are here in the Xfinity studio. We've got great internet. Thanks to the good folks at Xfinity. Now don't get yourself caught in a fanfish situation where you go to a buddy's house to watch the game and they got non-Xfinity internet and there's lagging and there's all these different kind of apps. You can't be having that.

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I know people buy Mitsubishi elsewhere. I just don't know why. Drive home and your new Mitsubishi today, just 10 minutes from all bridges or available online 24-7 at Cherryhill Mitsubishi.com. A couple super chats to get to before we get going and find out what E.J. thinks is interesting. Dinkleberg says, get the Eagles passing game some blue chew. We need that erect passing game. Frank Barber, Beau's southern accent is terrible and it's still worlds better than Kelly's fake southern accent. You see, you got to appreciate this, Frank. I'm not doing my own

southern accent. I'm doing an impression of Brian Kelly's southern accent. There's legors to this. You've got to understand, you know, the pathos that I'm bringing to the table here as a, as an actor. Matt Dio says EJ have you heard of the Beatles I mean obviously Limp Biscuit and the Beatles like come on guys

Yeah Lenin McCartney Different tiers of artists Now am I the biggest Beatles fan Ooh I mean some of their music is good I had a really

heated debate With several members of the beatcore Last year Yeah I mean this is I can imagine No but I can imagine What side These members of the beatcore

We're on Yeah Yeah We got Springsteen Springsteen and then the Beatles And what's the other guy's name? The current guy That all those sports writers love

Yeah I don't know who you're talking about It's not Springsteen Jason something Or yeah everybody loves Jason Isbell Guitarist love that guy too Yeah yeah all right I'm gonna share a hot take on the Beatles

I'm gonna get myself in trouble Let's do it baby Their music is solid Like I don't dislike their music but I if you're talking about timeless music they do not have that many songs that sound timeless to me they sound of an era like you listen to certain artists like I would I would argue like some of Frank Sinatra music is timeless but some of it sounds old it sounds like old music and like that to me actually is like the highest compliment you can give an artist is like

you listen to like Marvin Gay it sounds like it was made. this year. You know, I don't think the Beatles music sounds like it was made this year. It sounds of a time. One second. I have no idea what's coming here. I'm terrified. Say it to my face, CJ. No, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. It's very strange. You were on one today. How dare you? No. I don't like that. Don't like that. Don't like that. I think Tuesdays are going to be a problem. Yeah, this is not great. What do you think of my take as you wipe the tears from your eyes?

I think it's unfair. No, we have to stop. We have to stop. People came here. Honestly, I don't think that's a crazy tick. Yeah, they just, I mean, their music, it's not that I'm saying their music is bad. It just does not. It's solid.

It's solid. I don't, I'm not, I'm not a big, like, discography. The biggest thing that anyone's ever said to me. Solid. All right. Oh, damn. We should just stick to the Eagles for the rest of the show. I'm giving you too much leeway here.

I think that's a fine take. There was outrage from the beat reporters on this one. They did not like my... I mean, if you're only zeroing in on timeless. Yeah. Yeah. I just... I think that's crazy.

There are other artists out there whose discography is a lot more timeless doesn't sound as just like I said of a time. Super chat from Dang who says No, just keep doing the voice. All right.

France says beetles are solid, the opposite of lip. See, it's tying it all together right there. It's good to work. All right. Let's keep talking ball, E.J. We head now to the big deal.

Presented by Cherry Hill Mitsubishi. The big deal, E.J., all right. What's the thing that you think is interesting from Kevin Boutillo? I just, I got a little deja vu going to the NovaCare complex today. Walked in very, very, you know, with a lot of anticipation to hear what the offensive coordinator is going to say about this disjointed passing game, how he's going to get it fixed. What is he, what went, what went wrong for the passing game in the game before? and I know we've talked about this Brian Johnson, Kevin Petullo comparison. And to me, I think that there's the argument that they are similar.

The only way I think that that argument really lands is if you start to think about the common denominator here, which is the Jalen Hertz of it all. Well, it's also Nick Siriani. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Like Nick Siriani's like the two things he cares about, turnover over, limiting turnovers and finding explosive play. And Kevin Petullo talked about the fact that they, I mean, just hearing him talk about it, you can tell that they prioritize avoiding turnovers more than they prioritize finding explosive plays. Like if one's going to come at the expense of the other, avoiding turnovers is going to win that battle.

But I do think that like there's there's hints every once in a while when you hear from these guys about like this is, I mean, Jalen, what did you say? Jalen Hertz is going to, it's going to look the way Jalen Hertz wants it to look. I think that that's always an important thing to keep in mind because sometimes I do think that there's an irony to, obviously we hear from Jalen Hertz and we hear from Nick Siriani, but like the offensive coordinator has always kind of been in a tough spot when it comes, when it, when it, well, since Nick Sirianney was hired, like you think about the early days of Shane Steichen even.

It always kind of felt like this guy, like, is just in like a strange position because like it's not fully his offense. Like there are other people who are going to factor into the, questions we're asking him and those people aren't up there with him so he's going to answer these things but it's not it's not solely a kevin petulow issue if you're talking about the way that the past game looks i think that's fair i mean like for instance you saw the way that the offense looked different last year when tanner mckee was the quarterback yeah right mckellan more but i don't think that syriani is is divorced from this no yeah because even if it's recalling the plays that jailin likes

to run, there can still be different stuff within that. But there's no doubt that it's, you know, it's Jalen's offense. And that's probably why, like, the every new offensive coordinator every year is mitigated a little bit. Like, that's the connectivity that matters. And we're probably, we can't just say, oh, the offense, the passing game didn't look great the first two weeks. It's all Kevin Petulow's fault.

Obviously, that's not true. Right. There are many cooks in the kitchen here. I think that's fair. Yeah, one of the things that stood out to me, listening to Petulow talk, he was asked about the condensed sets, and he talked about how they are a trend around the league. He talked about how Sean McVeigh uses condensed sets, although they use them very differently. I think it's fair to say.

But then he also said that, you know, because he was discussing, like, the exotic pressure packages you invite by having a condensed set, like the amount of people you're putting into the box who now you've got more potential blitzers that you're you're going to. you have to be able to sort through. But he talked about how the condensed sets can give you a little bit of a look with defenses that can help the quarterback. And to me, that sounds like something that is a preference from Jalen.

Yeah. So I think, again, it's just important to remember that like there are things in this offense. Yeah. Like that are functions of Jalen Hertz's comfortability running them or preference when it comes to, you know, things like pre-stap motion.

You always heard about how Peyton Manning didn't like pre-stap motion. And obviously Jalen and Peyton have a relationship. They're just kind of clues every once in a whole. while where it's like sometimes I don't think it's as simple as like Jalen or you know Kevin Patulow likes this so they run it right into the ground I think it is a matter of the comfortability with the quarterback and for the record like I don't think that's always a bad thing no you know I think that makes a lot of sense when I take those guys at their word when they talk about like if the quarterback's not comfortable with it we won't run it but I do think

again that it has to be part of the equation when you're looking at the formations that they use the predictability there the predictability with some of the route concepts I think the menu has to expand, but I think that it's not as simple as saying that the menu is limited just because of the new offensive coordinator. What do you make of them always being so late out of the huddle? Yeah, that's a weird one because they really prioritize that in training camp too. Yeah. Now Arrowhead. And they have consistently been like that.

Yeah. That's a, honestly, it's a good question. I couldn't give you an answer, a straight answer on it. Like Arrowhead's loud, but that means that you probably would have even more of an emphasis on being quick out the huddle. so you have more time. And obviously they had like the procedural stuff with Tyler Steen where it seemed like a few times that him and Jalen weren't on the same page about the like the timing of the silent count there.

So yeah, it's funny because they really did harp on that all training camp. Like they had the sound in there too trying to work on that process. And it hasn't, I mean, it's been, it hasn't really cost them that much. But it is something that, you know, I noticed isn't, hasn't been as crisp. Okay. We're going to take another. Thank you to Cherry Hill, Mitsubishi. That'll wrap it up for the.

big deal. We are going to take another little break to hear from some sponsors. And then on the other side, we're going to play you a nice interview with Brandon Graham. We recorded the second episode of the Unblocked podcast earlier today, but we also had a separate conversation for this show that really gets into some of the transition from scheme to scheme for the defensive lineman and what it was like finally getting to play for Vic Fangio and some of the things in there, a conversation that I think you will all enjoy. But I start by telling you about Mac Weldon and ooh baby have I

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Rothman Orthopedics, your summer, your mobility, their mission. All right. Let's throw now to our friend Brandon Graham, the latest, greatest PHY employee. All right, back on the PHY Eagles show from the set of the Unblocked Podcast with Brandon Graham, BG. what were your big takeaways from the win over the chiefs? Went over the chiefs, man. They hung in there. It wasn't as pretty as people wanted it to on offense,

but I felt like the defense got better. They got stronger. They made the stops that they needed to, especially that goal line stopped by McCuba, and catching that ball. I mean, I ain't like that he got caught. But I got to say that lineman was on his stuff. He was moving.

He believed that he could make a play. He went to go make it. Now, you said the thing about, you know, the offense, people aren't quite as happy, and we've been talking about this a little bit on the show. I want to ask you about, like, from a locker room standpoint, from a buy-in standpoint. Yeah. You know, I'm sure that A.J. Brown would like to get the ball more. I'm sure DeVante would like to get the ball more. How hard do you think it is for those guys to, you know, willingly

take a second fiddle when you're still winning the game? Well, it's hard because you won one already. So now it's probably more about, man, I want to, you know, the individuals a little bit and you got to always kind of retrain your mind a little bit to know that our goals for the team is going to get you those individuals

but you got to submit to the team and you got to get everybody to buy into that that's the hardest part because I mean I want everybody to get their stuff shoot I want mine too but I know winning would cure it all because now you can walk around the city

a little more you ain't got to go hiding because y'all you stunk it up Right. Or maybe you might have did have all your individual goals, but we still lost. And then, yeah, you feel a little good, but it don't feel as good if you're going home early. You know what I'm saying? Without going to the playoffs and then, but you're going to the pro ball. My thing was always, well, man, I can't go to a pro bowl this year because we're going to Super Bowl.

You know what I'm saying? That's like a mindset. But you do want to have those individual accolades and you only got so much time to do it. But you got to hope that that happens while you're doing your, why are you doing your, why you focusing on the team over your own individual. Did you feel that in 2018, where there was a little bit of a different tone in the locker room of people just wanting their own

a little bit more? After you've been to the mountaintop? The thing is, coming back from a Super Bowl, you got to get everybody to believe in that dream again. You know, you got to get people to believe in that y'all still got what it takes. Because that year, when we lost, I mean, when we won, we came back

that next year. We had everybody still there. I don't think nobody really left. I don't think nobody left. We had both coordinators still there. Everybody was still there. We just had new players, and we just had to get everybody up to speed. But that's just like, nah.

I mean, if Alshan don't drop their catch, man, we might have been seeing the Patriots again. Right. That would have been a sweet little thing for the Eagles to not have been there for so long. And then lost when they did go in 05, Poor Alshan, though. Because, you know what?

They were still work to do. I feel like Alshan gets thrown like, oh, if they would have won that game, they're still work to do. But that was just like part of the drive. Of course. That just killed the drive. But Alshan, man, that boy was a hard worker. He was a big part of us winning that year in 2017.

And, you know, I mean, all is forgiven because we understand that's part of the game. It just sucked in that moment. Sure. We felt like we got our butt-whoop that first game against the Saints. Yeah. And that wasn't a fun one. But then we come back and, man, that boy, what's his name? Come get to pick.

What's his name? I don't know why I came to me. Was it strapped? Strap. Strap. Strap. Picked them off. And, boy, I was like, oh, this is a new day today.

I like strap. I like strap a lot, man. I wish it would have worked out for him a little better because, man, I just root for the underdogs, man. The ones that people ain't looking for right now until they're looking for you. Yeah, he was great. I remember that very first game he came in out of nowhere. against the Giants, I think it was. And it was covering O'Dell.

It was like, everybody knew they were throwing at him. And I remember he said after the game, he was like, what are you going to do? Pissed down your leg? No, like, yeah, this is for real. I love his attitude, man. I mean, he came in, he came in ready to play every day.

I've much respect and, you know, hope that he's still winning right now. Defensive line stuff from last week, what did you see from Jalen Carter after his, you know, not getting to play week one in week two? He probably was a little winded out there. It was hot.

I know it was hot. I heard that it was, it was winded. First half of the game, because I was talking to Morrow, and Morrow was just saying, like, for some reason, man, it was just, we was just winded in the beginning, but then we got our feet up under us, and then the game just started to come to him a little more, and I feel like it's the same.

That was Jalen Carter first adrenaline game, where he got that adrenaline rush, ready to play, and then finally was able to go out there and play, and now I feel like it's just going to get better. That's how I go, man. You got to break yourself in, a little bit because you ain't been running on that adrenaline, like how you're going to run in the game now that you know all this stuff count.

And so I think that for him it's going to get better and better as he continued to keep working. Now, you talk to Morrow, got his first career regular season sack. That was a nice one. That was a nice one for him. I'm proud of him. I know that he was, I knew he was going to be a big part of this year anyway based off how he'd been practicing in training camp. And then even how he was training during the off season

because I would see him when I was in there training. And yeah, that boy looked good. I'm just happy that it's translating from the offseason to the games now for him. He was the guy, you know, every year I do this thing where I talk to the players about, like just name one guy who's going to have a big season. And he got the most responses. Like, you know, he had this awesome summer. Yeah.

What do you remember, like, do you remember, like, sizing him up as a rookie? Like, what's this guy going to be like? And then his trajectory over the last three years? Oh, yeah. Just watching him in practice, seeing how he works, because you can tell, I knew from new Milton was going to be good too because Milton was always trying to lead the lines. Him and, him and, um, um, um, um, uh, Taron Jackson. They both came in.

They both came in front of the line. I was like, all right, you want to let the rooks go do their thing then. All right, rooks, it ain't like, I'm going to show you anyway. Yeah, I'm going to work hard when I, when it's my turn anyway, but you all want to go first, go ahead because they set the tempo. I will say them boys. We used to tell them, like, slow it down a little bit. Y'all, like, we just started in the beginning of practice.

Like, we about to get there. But them boys, they came to work. They came to work every day. And then seeing Moro, he came to work, too. And it just got better every year because, I mean, he didn't know what he didn't know. But now he knew what he had to work on. And now he just, he'd do it every day. Are there technique things that he has gotten better at?

Or is it just sort of general strength? What kind of technique? of what your coach in the scheme of how he wants things to be done or how he wants you to take on blocks, you might have learned a certain way with a certain coach, some stuff that you might have to unlearn with this new coach that you got because he don't like none of that that you do. And it'd be times like that where some guys, they got to unlearn some things because they might have not had the best coach. He was just probably trying some YouTube stuff. You know, I just be honest, but I mean, but, you know, you might have caught the, I would just say you might have caught the coach at a rookie stage.

Yeah, at a rookie part of his career. Now you're from, from college, you mean? Well, yeah, like sometimes because sometimes, like, sometimes you do go from a rookie type coach to a pro like, like Vic. But then you go from a coach like Vic to another rookie coach. It'd be tough because now you know what works. for real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you see what don't.

And then you got to buy in even this. That's hard. That's hard. You still got to take. I know this is going to be better. Yeah. But I don't want to, like, disobey the code. Right.

You just want to get them to trust you to do it the right way when that time comes. Like, I still take stuff that I've learned from sorts and still apply it to the game. You know, when I was playing, even if Vic didn't like certain stuff. But it's like, all right. I'm going to do it your way on this, but I'm going to keep this. Because you know I'm the one out there playing. So when you finally get that okay that you're the starter or you the guy that they're looking forward to make plays, and sometimes they don't care how you do it.

They just hope that, you know, what they've taught you, helped you make that play, that it can show up on film and stuff like that. Do you find that I would think that a guy like Vic, even though he's like the experienced one and the expert is probably more willing to let you do your own thing because he's like he's more confident in the overall picture whereas a younger coordinator might want to be a little bit more

everybody do it my way because he's maybe a little bit more unsure. Is that, do you think that's right? Yeah, I think that's, I think it's a lot of that. It's a lot of coaches that come in sometimes, especially if they're first time around.

They want to have eight guys. They want to make sure that the way that they're teaching can translate. Like the coaches is teaching them the same way. I mean, it's so much like a guy like the side. He come in. He didn't have all his people that he just had to take people that were there. And then you got to teach those guys how you want to call the game or how you want to run your defense.

And I feel like that's what got him behind the eight ball because you ain't got that much time. You only got six months to the season start. You know, really, not even six months, really four or five months. And then August coming, you got to have, like, put everything compacted, you know, and just throw out everything. And some stuff gets slipped in the cracks, you know, slipping the cracks where, dang, we should have went over this, but we didn't.

And then it's a little uncertainty with certain stuff. And, man, it just, you learn. It was a good learning lesson for me, just watching it, just watching how things go. Like Vic, Vic brought in all his people this year. That makes sense. And it makes it easier because they know how you operate already. They know they speak in the same language. There's so many different reasons why things don't always work

because sometimes you don't have a personnel for it and you're trying to run something that it worked with that team because you had people that you knew that knew you. But then you get somewhere else. You're trying to reteach it. and then some people might not always believe in what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying? You got to prove yourself to them.

And so that's what's tough. That's what's tough because people don't always see that part. There's also something. So Vic brings in his guys. There are also, you know, no particular shade to the guys who were here before, but they're also like higher qualified position coaches at their spot, whereas Desai had not only guys who weren't his, but also, you know, first time linebackers coaches,

stuff like that. Do you like, do you guys in the locker room talk about like, man, I don't think this coach has it. Well, we talk about that as players. I mean, they talk about us all the time. Right, of course. That's only human.

We got to talk about them too. Yeah, everybody's talking about their bosses. Yeah, I mean, on how they could be better and all this stuff and what they do a good job of. Because I really feel like that's part of it. You got to make sure that we all speak in the same language. So we are going to talk about some of the stuff they, that he might have said,

hey, we got to know this for practice. Like, man, why we got to know that, man? Like, that don't even make sense. Coach said, do it, man, do it. Like, let's do it. You know what I'm saying? And then he should realize that he made the mistake

other than us just telling them and it seemed like we're not coachable. Right. You know, because people love to say that too. Well, and there's got to, yeah, I mean, like, listen, there's a difference between coaching a rookie and coaching a 10-year vet. Yeah.

Like, they need to understand then you know what you're doing too. Yeah, and I ain't get here for no reason either. Right. I got here, happened to have a little smarts to myself, and it's ain't it, coach. Last thing on this topic, because even in the transition from Desai to Fangio,

the position coach is the same. Jeremiah Washburn is still on the outside. So for a guy like Nolan Smith, when he's a rookie, same position coach, but a different scheme a little bit, what would the transition have been like for him from year one to year two, to go from Desai to Fanjo, even though he's got the same position coach.

Well, I think that Fangio just brought a different dynamic of, like, decide. He wasn't probably owned Nolan as much as, what's the name, well? Okay, Lesoth. Yeah. And how serious what's the name can get on you in meetings. Not even like serious, but you're saying like, you'd be shocked like, oh, he calling me out. Oh. Yeah.

This ain't it. This ain't it, Nolan. we need to do better right here, you know, and all that. And it's like you start to get you, you start to get on it because you want him to say good stuff about you in the meetings and that just kind of get you going. And for me, as a vet, it's been a while since somebody really got on me. And I'm like, okay, all right, bad, coach.

Okay. That's how you, now you keep me on my toes. Now I really got to go out here and make sure I'm practicing good because he's going to call us out. Make sure I'm making plays and doing my part. and helping others too, but that's why it's good to get criticized. I mean, if you could take it where you're not taking it personally, man, it do make you better.

And then you feel good in that moment when I do have a game like how I was having against Washington. Yeah. I mean, the Rams. And then you be like, man, now you bought in all of, now you want to keep doing it. Right. You know what I'm saying? Does Vic, does he then give you credit for a good?

good play? He do, he do. But is it very like, you did a good job here. Yeah, good job here. It's like quick. It's like quick. It doesn't compare it to the call. Not an elaboration, but you, but you hype because you know, he said good job.

All right. That's a good play then. He might even, he might even get you, get you a little more than sometimes. But it just felt like we broke him in to that towards the end. Like he started being more cool. Okay. Not saying that he wasn't cool, but, you know, he was serious. He's just a serious person.

He take his job as a pro, which I love, and you continue to be that, like, we ain't here to be friends, but I would love for us to be able to have a relationship with all the time we spend together. Right. You know, a dude or something that we could talk about for later. What are we doing it for if we ain't really trying to, you know, have something that we can talk about to our kids later.

Right. So now we do. We can move along together. That's great. Of all the coordiners you've had, is Vic the one who's the most, like individually calling people people out? You know what?

No, I say Swartz. Swartz was Swartz big on that. Okay. And I love that. That's when we really turned it around was when we had people don't care, like how much money you're making, how much, it's like, look,

this don't cost us the game because you don't know what to do or you weren't paying attention when you were supposed to be paying attention because we need everybody. And so that's how we kind of, that's how Coach Swartz used to come in And I mean, man, when I tell you, he real particular about, like, his walkthroughs, no talking, none of that, like, why he, why he presenting, all that stuff.

Like, you fall asleep. Hey, stand up, stand up. You know, like, he called you out. Okay. You know, and he used to always get on me because I'd be in there like this. We had a little one at that point. I know. But I love that, though, because I know it's consistent.

All you're looking for is consistency. Sure. and when somebody you could tell when somebody pretending for real or just doing it because how we over there looking you know what I'm saying yeah like that's another thing when your boss is over your over your over your shoulder yeah and now it's like man who are you you wasn't like this in why are you acting like that yeah but people be like that sometimes but that's part of it all right that's great insight we appreciate that BG we'll be back with more don't give me no trouble man or this over with yeah me what we're doing of course That was my line all the time when I was in the, you know, when I was playing.

That's right. That's right. Okay. Back with more on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. You know that moment. The one when you realize you left your favorite sunglasses at the beach or on the roof of your car or at a gas station three states away. Well, I have been there too. I left mine in the ocean last summer.

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You must be 21 and in PA, New Jersey, Maryland, or Michigan for Bet Parks. You love to play, you play to win, you bet. Bet Parks. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler. All right, back on the PHA My Eagles podcast. Fran says that there's a sea turtle wearing your sunglasses. Yeah, it's looking great.

You're just saying you left them in the ocean. I lost them. I was carrying. You said you left them in the ocean. I just placed them there. Hey, hold on. I'll be right back and put him down. You just have like an ocean home.

I lost them. I was carrying Jane, a big wave game. I had to get the child on the glasses. Sorry. Sorry, you would rather have me choose merchandise and goods over the life of a human being. What does that have to do with anything?

This is a crazy reframing by you. Just left them. Speaking of things I'd like to leave in the ocean. Here's what Adam Schaefter had to say about the tush-push. With, I believe, what you can't see is here at the bottom of this graphic. is Roger Goodell's hand up his, you know where,

moving him like a puppet. The biggest thing here to me is the game was lost in March. The game was lost when the NFL owners refused to ban the tush push. It wasn't lost yesterday. It was lost in March. There might be a lot of games the Eagles play that are lost in March

because the play is unstoppable, even though it stopped twice. Not only does the defense not know how to handle But even the officials don't know how to handle it. Even, uh, what's his face? Uh, the dufus from Fubble Dean Blan, you know, doesn't know how to handle it. All right. You get the gist.

I mean, I do, I am over this, but like, come on. We don't need, we don't need, uh, we don't need Adam Schaefter, official partner of the league now, uh, just doing their dirty work for them. Yeah, I think that is a good way to put it because of the fact that I do think this is a sentiment across the NFL, which is why it's relevant. I also, I'm with you. It's like. It's such a, it's such a straw man thing that didn't win the game because of the tush push.

Yeah, the Dean Blandino thing really leans into like, oh, I'm just done with this. And I'm mostly, the conversation about it has gotten to a point where it is like, it just feels aimless to me. I mean, they've just been running this play for so long now. And the discourse around it has gone to be, I mean, I would call it toxic at this point. I don't think anybody, anybody, nobody, I think this is a problem. Now we will push the tours forever. The problem is that nobody is, nobody is really making an argument based off the argument that they're making. It's either you like it or you don't like it.

Which is fine. If you want to tell me you don't like the aesthetics of the play, that's fine. Right, but like nobody, they realize they can't say that. So now it's all the officials don't know how to handle it. And like on the flip side, like the Eagles will advocate for it. But really it's just they like to play. The play works for them. So like Kevin Petullo La was asked about it today.

and he says sometimes like he was talking about like whether or not the eagles they're going to need to be more careful with the play to avoid future penalties. And he said sometimes they call it close. Sometimes they don't. The defense is always lined up offside anyway. So it's like, I don't know. Again, I think that most of the conversation about this is basically just people trying to dress up the fact that they either think the play works for the team that they're on or that they don't. I do think they need to know now. Like they are going to get called for a bunch of stuff.

Yeah, probably. Did you see Stephen Holder's piece on the push today? No, I found it interesting that like, it is true. Like no other team has really adopted it the way the Eagles run it. Right. And obviously like... Because I got NIMBY Pimby quarterback. Yeah, I know that's what people will say.

But like, come on. Teams have to see how good the Eagles are at it and go, why can't we do this? And it's interesting. No, I believe the Chargers had a good one last night. Is that right? I was out. I was out. I'm sorry.

I was out for the Chargers game. Me too. Yeah. I watched the Falcons game. Sorry, not the Falcons game. Oh, it's the Bucks game. Congratulations. Yeah.

Maybe I didn't watch the Bucks game. Yeah. Yeah, but I was more impressed with the Bucks, honestly. Yeah. I think they're good. Who has them and spread your wins and fly? I think I have their under. Oh, I don't like that for you.

Well, yeah, not now. But they look good. But they lost Collagia Cancy. I think that's a loss for the Eagles. I think you had that right preseason. Well, yeah, the Eagles aren't allowed to win there. Exactly. Yeah.

All right, you want to get through these coordinator notes? Yeah, what else you got? Okay. I had one more from Petulow here. And now I've got to find it. Intermediate targets. Yes. Yeah, Fran talked about.

Now when you say, do you mean intermediate like 10 to 20 yards or do you mean in the middle of the field? 10 to 20 yards. I mean, yes, but 10 to 20 yards in particular. It sounded like Kevin Petulow at least attributed that to the way that the Chief's defense was playing them. He said that they were in the call. Like it wasn't that they weren't trying to get those targets. it's just the way that the defense was playing them and the fact that there was a lot of pressure,

the pressure looks that made them get the ball out quick. So yeah, I think that's, oh, I did have one other thing from this that I wanted to see your reaction when I read this quote. Okay. So he says a lot of times it just comes down to situationally if we're playing it a certain way, like, hey, we're trying to get to a fourth down mode or we're trying to take all four downs.

Yeah, I mean, the other time you would be trying to take all four downs. Like run the clock out would be in a four minute Yeah four minute drill but even then you don't want to risk fourth down I can't imagine it leans into your notion You should never be calling the game wanting to use all four down It leans into you're like are they playing for the tush push of it all and are they and and is this to the risk a version of like shortening the game with longer possessions Yeah I mean that's yeah just something that perked my ears miss me with that as the young kids might say.

I don't even know if young kids say that's like, I don't think they would say that. Intermediate kids. Intermediate people, we should say, not kids. All right, you want to go through the Fangio stuff? Yes. He was complimentary on Andrew McCuba, but still alludes to misassignments from Maccuba.

So I think that it's still a work in progress. But yeah, no, he was definitely more complimentary than he was last week when it was kind of a no-sell. He said that Jordan Davis's rise really started late last year and that he has been playing good football for them. Yeah, he did. that and his own usage of Jordan Davis doesn't align with that make that true. He said that Jalen Carter needs to get in shape. Yeah. I mean, Jalen Carter did miss part of

training camp. I think that because I think the natural question is, well, he missed week one, is that like he's a week behind in terms of game shape. And that is true, but he also missed training camp. I thought that the heat probably played a major factor in it, but there were times in the game where you could kind of tell he was gassed either by his effort on the play or like just like how easily he was kind of... Brandon Graham shared on the podcast this week, which you can listen to tomorrow, which drops at 11 a.m.

Follow Brandon Graham unblocked on YouTube and all your social media channels. That, yeah, he talked to some guys on the defensive line and they were gassed. The weather did play a factor there. That was a great segment from you from the BG podcast. I didn't get to say that because you were too busy. That's a separate one.

That's not even in the podcast. That's a separate interview. Oh, that's exclusive. That's exclusive for the show. I was waiting for him to say that Fangio would say like, this is good stuff right here. I feel like that's an old guy thing. Like to be like good stuff, you know, like that's like the highest compliment they can give you. Okay.

No, do you know self from you for you? I mean, I guess. I feel like that would be a fan geosism. He talked about the blitzes that they sent on Sunday and how they didn't need them in the Super Bowl. They needed them on Sunday because of Mahomes of scrambling in the first half. He said that that was something that they needed to address. and that's why they sent somebody. But that's interesting because they were, they blitzed more when he was scrambling,

and then he stopped scrambling when they stopped blitzing. So didn't the blitzes in part lead to the scrambles? I don't know. I'm just taking them out of the word there. He had a very classic, like Vic, mocking the NFL's rules for players. This is very funny. He was talking about Zadaria Smith and how he is like he doesn't need, basically in the NFL, like the league rules.

mandate that if you sign a player during training camp, there's like an acclamation period that they have to go through. And he, you know, he was talking about how for Zadarius, since he signed in the season, there is no acclimation period. He just can do everything right away and said how important it is or how, you know, Zadarius doesn't need that. Like, it shows how stupid it is. And then he referenced, and I believe he said Chase Campbell. Yeah, he did. And it's Chance Campbell. It's Chance Campbell. Yeah. It's tougher. That's okay. I mean, listen, the fact that he got that close to me is a shock and you know a very impressive

job well good for chance campbell because when they signed him I was like I think I wasn't the only one that thought he was just like the stand in linebacker for the third preseason game yeah and it seems like he's earned himself to take a chance take a chance on me it worked all right last one for you

from Fangio he talked about halftime adjustments being overblown yeah he says half time well he says halftime adjustments are way overblown Half time is 12 minutes long. It takes me a few minutes to get down. It takes me a few minutes to get back up. You need to be making adjustments throughout the game.

And I thought that was good. Yeah, that is good. Insight. Like, he's probably got four or five minutes in there. Like, that's good. He's like, I'm, all right, guys, I got to go. Yeah. And then some quick Michael Clay stuff for you.

Do we need to do this? Yes, we will find out about what Michael Clay said to E.J. Smith and the rest of the reporters in Boomer Time sound like it hurt It didn't I'm already looking forward to next Tuesday show No I am not

I mean we've gone through almost all my notes at this point So you know there's that Maybe I needed more notes This is the this is the this is the weekly equivalent of the old school 2 a M post game pods I feel That's what's what's what's what's what's what's what's what's This is going to be a delirious show It's an homage.

I mean, I've, I've contributed to that because of you leaving your sunglasses in the ocean. That was a long time ago, yeah. So Michael Clay was asked a lot about Tank, Hester. Okay. What did you make of that? We didn't get to talk about that. Then they kicked away from him? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I don't think that that was. What do they know? You think it's like an open, not so open secret in the league that every team believes that Tank Bigsby is the best return of football. Like, that they were. probably watched his tape on his limited tape on returning. Yeah.

And decided that it would be better to kick away from him. What do they, what does the Lee know about this guy as a returner that we don't? I don't know. Tank Hester. What I'm gonna call? I'm gonna like accidentally call him. And he talked about Jake Elliott.

He said this confidence is back. And then he was asking like, what happened to his confidence last year? And he's like, well, he's always been confident. Yeah, yeah. He was injured, I think. Yeah, very clearly. Yeah.

He was, I mean, the 58-yarder had plenty of leg left on it. He hit one from 64 in pre-game warm-ups. He is impressive. And it was like, it's funny, he was asked about like if kickers, like, you know, the added distance that you can see from, you see kickers have. And I thought it was interesting. He said, like, it's just like any other position. It's just maybe more like, he didn't say this. But I guess it's like the, it's easier to track because it's just field goal distance.

But like, you would imagine like edge rushers get faster, you know, like wide receivers get more precise in the route. It's just kind of the same thing in a more quantifiable way. See, I found that interesting. And yeah, he said he gave my boy Cameron Latu a compliment. So I'm going to be on Cameron Latu. I want you to see something. If you look at my desktop and you look at the clip of Cameron Latu, his block, what's that called? Lotu Love.

It's good, right? Why is that good? Oh, come on. You're like the king of name puns. that's good. Well, it's good. There's a lot to love. You made me explain the joke so it wasn't good.

I see what happened here. A lot to explain. He's good. Honestly, I mean, he's good. Wouldn't have to play. He has some juice. Fran told me to settle down, but I will not settle down. The fullback is going to be my thing.

All right. Okay. All right, here's the most important thing I'm going to tell you all day long. And I'm a terrible host because I forget. forgot about this until just now. Go to, hopefully you subscribe to Rich Hoffman's newsletter.

Best newsletter covering Philly Sports. I mean, it's not even, it's like, there's no competition. Or you can go to all-PHLY.com and check out the Eagles quiz that Handsome Rich has put together.

25 questions testing your Eagles knowledge. No better way to spend the day. Please go do that. I'm going to do it too. I haven't done it yet. I want to see how good I do. I'm not going to do well, but I'm going to do it anyway.

That's right. All-PHOY.com slash quiz. Prove you're the smartest. Philadelphia fan around the ultimate PHOI sports quiz. Yeah. Test your knowledge. And then tomorrow on tomorrow's show, I want everybody in the chat to drop your scores on the Eagle

show. We'll see who the king of the chat is, king or queen of the chat. There you go. Also, while I'm here, you notice the donate button there as you're watching live. How about a little scratch? A little scratch for Big Brothers, Big Sisters. Make you feel better about yourself. A moment together can spark endless laughter. Change a child's life. Why don't you? Don't be so selfish. You know, help out. E.J. I don't even know what to say. E.J. is going to become a big

and for the sole purpose of saying don't ever listen to the Beatles. No, no. I would become a big for like the advocacy of a lot of things but not listening to the Beatles. That would be number two. Wouldn't be like in the top 100. I don't dislike the Beatles. I saw the chat.

The chat was in agreement with me. Although we saw a Manchester United fan from Liverpool. Interesting. Andrew's a diehard Liverpool man. Is that the same as being like a Cowboys fan in Philadelphia? Yeah. But we don't know that he's from Liverpool. He said he's in Liverpool.

I read that as maybe he's like working there. So maybe he was born in Manchester. Okay. I apologize. Or somewhere else. Actually. Villa played today. They're playing right now, I think.

Oh, you're distracted. I'm not. Who are they playing? They're playing. Brentford and the league cup, which is like, it's, it's been a bad year for Vela so far. Will they get a goal? Probably not. They don't even look like they're going to score a goal.

Like it doesn't even look like, it's not like, oh, they've had chances. Like they literally, they look broken right now. I'm a little concerned. Three out of ten. Concern level right now. Okay. Like, if the Eagles passing game is a two, two and a half for me, I mean, maybe the Eagles passing game is like a three, then I'm like a four right now with Villa.

Okay. And concerned at the level of, making Europe just not getting relegated what's your bar? I don't think relegation is on the table. I think like Europe, if you're asking them my concern of them not making Europe,

I would be like a seven right now. So then what are you not concerned about? You're happy to just float through mid table? I want to see how they do in the Europa League. I think they could win it. I don't know what makes me think that. Other than I just, I think they can.

And with an SED smile on your face too. I don't feel great about it, but I don't know. Una-Army's won that competition like four times. Okay. But all of his best players ghosts the biggest games of the year every single season. So that's what concerns me. Yeah, maybe with the concern level instead of on the 1 to 10 scale, as Shay sort of hints at maybe it should be on the flaccid to erect scale.

It's a good, like, wrap up, wrapping up the show. That's how you got to do it. You got to have a callback. All of this stem from limp business. I don't think that Link biscuit deserves this much credit. They got it anyway. Let us know in the chat

what you think of the Beatles. And comment below the video. We will talk to you tomorrow 2 o'clock. It's Amina Kimes Day. Looking forward to that. Jamie and Rich will have you covered. E.J. Live from the Novacare Complex. And of course,

the Brennan Graham Unblocked Podcast. Episode 2. debuts tomorrow at 11 o'clock. Thank you, Andrew, for making it happen. Thanks to everybody for being with us live. We will talk to you tomorrow for E.J. Smith, who did it all for the Nookie. We thank you for watching.

We'll talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you.