PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Jeffrey Lurie GOES TO BAT for Jalen Hurts, Nick Sirianni at owners meetings | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

One day before Jalen Hurts’ 2025 season took center stage as a result of an ESPN report about the quarterback’s stubbornness, Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie offered a strong defense for both Hurts and coach Nick Sirianni at the NFL owners meetings. EJ Smith and special guest Les Bowen trade takeaways from the news conference that gave an Eagles stadium update, optimism about Sean Mannion and plenty more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome in everybody to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast live from the Xfinity Studio on a Wednesday afternoon. And we are presented by our friends at Ashley and Bet365. I am your host today, E.J. Smith, back in town, back home after a red eye flight in Phoenix, had a good time at the owner's meetings. And I'm very excited to be joined by, I've given you your flowers on the show a couple of times, you know, a real mentor of mine, a friend of mine. And I think, A Jeffrey Lorry whisperer, I would say, which is why I'm very excited to do the show with you. Without further ado, the great Les Bowen. I appreciate you joining us today. How are you doing? I'm doing great. E.J., how are you? I'm doing well. You know, I don't sleep great on planes, but I was tired enough that I think I got a decent amount of sleep. And, you know, I feel like energized by all the Eagles news that we have going on today. So a lot to get to. I'm excited to trade some takeaways on Jeffrey Lurie with you later on the show. but I think we need to definitely start with the Jalen Hertz conversation.

There was a big story. I'm sure a lot of you guys have seen about Jalen Hertz and ESPN written by Tim McManus and Jeremy Fowler about, I think the general gist of the story is Jalen Hertz's culpability and the limitations that the Eagles offense had last year and a sentiment that he is uncoachable. They talked to probably about a dozen people around the Eagles organization. And yeah, I think that there were some anecdotes about the difficulty of, being in the room with Jalen and trying to install an offensive system. So yeah, I think there's a lot to get to with that. I guess what was your general takeaway? Yeah, kind of like that. I wasn't

quite as strong on it being strictly on Jalen. It seemed to me, most of the quotes came from someone who had some sort of coaching role with the Eagles last year, which should be a very limited number of people. And oddly enough, the coaching staff came off very well in the piece. It was even suggested that it was just the media making Kevin Petullo look like a bad offensive coordinator and that somehow the players were affected by this, which, yeah, huh. But, you know, the sequence in there that struck me, the most was the talk about the doomed last play against the 49ers. And supposedly it was Jalen

Hertz who suggested fourverts in that situation. This source, who again has to be a coach, it's either a coach or Tanner McKee, and I don't think it's Tanner McKee. It would surprise me, yeah. Because those are the only people in this little circle that. They would having this conversation, unless it was somebody on the headphones, maybe in the press box who was listening to this conversation. Sure. So it's Jalen Hertz who says that they should do fourverts, even though they've just done four verts.

And this source says, oh, no, we can't do, no, thinks, thinks. Oh, no, we can't do four verbs, but doesn't say anything. Yeah. And then this is Jalen Hertz's fault when this. doesn't work. Well, if you're a coach in that situation, you don't have to do what the it was, it seemed like, and I think this is said in the story, that Jalen was asked for he didn't go over and say, we need to run for vert. Hey, hey, listen to me. Certainly look at his mannerisms in that moment and at least infer that whatever was said, he wasn't feeling

in, and kind of confident about whatever the call was. And it was free, I think Nick or or Kevin or whomever was free to say, you know, that's a great idea, but how about we do this instead? Yes, yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So, reading through the story, and, you know, we should make this the What's Brewing segment presented by Wawa, because this was my biggest takeaway reading through the story. It took me back to a conversation I had during the Super Bowl about Jalen Hertz, and it was somebody who has worked closely with Jalen for years, has known Jalen for a long time. I asked them about the perception that Jalen is hard to coach, difficult to get to do certain

things and, you know, a limiting factor for the offensive system, right? And the thing that this person told me is that whenever Jalen is introduced to a new thing, whether it's a system or a drill or anything that he's working on, that's very detail-oriented or process-driven, and he really needs to understand the why behind it. There's a real level of taking a step back and trying to get to the bottom of what is the purpose of what we are doing. And I think it's a very human, like relatable thing

that everyone can apply to their own lives, right? We've all been in a situation where somebody suggests something to us that we maybe aren't receptive to, and you try to understand where the other person's coming from. And if you don't think it's a good idea, you might push back on it. Probably also all been in a situation where we tell someone, hey, I think this should happen and they give you a hard time.

Right. And you're frustrated by it. And I think when I read through the story, I think that the sentiment that is in that story, clearly the coaching staff grew frustrated, you know, it was reported in the story. By the way, we should mention, like, great reporting from Tim McMannison, Jeremy Fowler. You know, none of what we're going to say on the show is to undermine what they're reporting. Right. It's, you know, it's solid reporting.

I think it does offer a window into a lot of things that you hear. and it was reported in that story that Kellan Moore and Jalen Hertz had friction. And if you look at Kellynne Moore's offenses over the years and the offense that he ran with the Eagles, it would track with the fact that he had to meet Jalen Hertz, maybe not even in the middle, more toward Jalen side of things. And the story does a good job of pointing out that that Super Bowl offense, everybody sort of, because they blew out the commanders

and the chiefs in the playoffs, everyone sort of forgets. that was built around one of the most incredible running offenses that has ever existed in the NFL. And the Eagles really were not a productive passing team, not as productive as they should have been. And we spent much of the season before the playoffs lamenting that. And then it kind of all got, yeah, no, no, everything. You know, what a great team, greatest team ever. Yeah, I do think that's right.

And what we were saying about Jalen, there's a point in there where in the story where the point is made that from Jalen's perspective, he spent the whole offseason getting ready to run the offense that they'd been running. Yeah. And then when things didn't go great, suddenly they wanted to make all these changes. And he wasn't maybe clear on exactly what you were saying. Yeah, the reason behind it. Right. Yes. Right. And to me, that is, I could see both sides of this because from a coaching perspective, you might be frustrated saying, we told Jalen, we need to do X, Y, and Z. And he was not

receptive to it. He needed us to explain it. You know, he puts up walls. That might be frustrating from a coaching perspective. But from Jalen's perspective, you can understand if you, like, to me, I think it is maybe reflective of like, did they do a good enough job explaining to him why they wanted to do what they wanted to do? And I think how much burden of, you know, of proof they needed to show or what they wanted to implement, that is where I think this disconnect comes from. And honestly, it's going to be different person to person. So to me, that is really, and I saw you post this on social media. I thought this was a great point that like, it's, this is, we're going to be doing a lot of like both things can be true today with Jaylor.

And I think that the stubbornness that he can show, the, you know, the conviction and what he's doing and what he does, I think that is part of what makes him great. It also is what part of makes him, you know, make, it's part of what earns him the uncoachable label, right? The label that is difficult, that he can be difficult to work with at times. Well, and the steely demeanor is similar. You know, you want your quarterback to be a tough, you know, really hard to knock off his game kind of guy. But sometimes if you have a really tough, steely person,

personality, teammates, you know, don't, it's not like you're Mr. Rogers, you know, I mean, around the locker room. And I just, I wonder how much of this is true for other quarterbacks. I think a great deal of it probably is. Absolutely. Yeah. And you can go into these, have these sort of in-depth views into a lot of different situations, Aaron Rogers, for example. You know, I just, to me, saying that Jalen Hertz has limitations and that he needs to change some things isn't really revelatory. Well, that sounds like I'm diminishing the story. I don't, it's nothing that we didn't sense. I think it's you diminishing the reaction to the story, which I completely agree with.

Thank you. Yeah. The reporting is solid. The reporting is a lot of stuff that you have heard about Jalen in pieces and whispers. and this is the most comprehensive look at what we've, what we've been alluding to for a long time. So the story is great. The story is very solid.

But again, I think the reaction has been more about people not necessarily like reading between the lines and seeing it for what it was beforehand. So yeah, I get where you're coming from with that. There's a segment of the fan base that, well, there are two segments that I disagree with.

One is the segment on one side that is, okay Jalen Hertz was the MVP of the Super Bowl therefore he is as great a quarterback as there is in the NFL and we should never criticize anything he does which just isn't true as a passer and a field general he is not Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow right that doesn't mean he's not any good yeah the other group on the other side is a group that you know some of it

is the people that whenever you have a black quarterback you get at these people there are people who insist that he's a bum, he's a fraud, he's terrible. You know, they won these games in spite of him, blah, blah, blah. That's not true either. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I think, so that is, it is an important thing to keep in mind, too, is like the fact that there are people who are critical of Jalen

because he is a black quarterback. And that is like, there are bad faith actors on that side of the argument. There is a nuance in him as a quarterback that is, is tricky to navigate because of the fact that you've got those bad faith factors. Yes. But I went through this with Donovan McNabb. Yeah, absolutely.

And early in his career, I was an incredibly staunched defender of Donovan Mnab just because of that, just because of the people that I heard from, we just had email back then. We didn't have social media. Yeah. The people I heard from were racist, you know? I mean, they just, they didn't, they were not being honest about what they didn't like. Right.

You know. Yeah, absolutely. And, but Donovan, much. like Jalen was a complex figure. He wasn't all good. He didn't, he ended up not having the career he should have had, frankly. Yeah. And some of that was his fault. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, yes, nuance. Yes, which is what we bring here. Yeah. That's going to do it for the what's brewing segment presented by Wawa. Les, we have acknowledged us a little bit. And I wanted, this is one of the big takeaways I wanted to get to in this Jalen discussion, which is,

I feel like across the NFL in general, but especially in Philadelphia, there's a tendency to deify the franchise quarterback and treat them as a perfect figure until they're not. And then once they're not perfect, there's a tendency to tear them back down. And I think like, I don't know who needs to hear this. It might be Eagles fans. It honestly might be people in the Eagles building based off of this story. That this is not a productive way to do business with your franchise quarterback. One of the big things that jumped out to me reading this story and honestly covering the team for the last year or two is how many people in that building have these strong feelings about Jalen Hertz. And I'm not saying that they created this problem themselves. I don't want to make, I want to make sure I acknowledge that Jalen Hertz has accountability in this.

But the tendency to build these guys up, put them on a pedestal, give them that franchise quarterback mantle only to watch them win a Super Bowl, watch them struggle the next season, and tear them down and say that they are the reason for everything wrong. with the organization. I do think that that is just like a vicious cycle that we're seeing, and I just, I think it is unproductive. Well, I'll go back again. I'm Mr. History here, but Carson wins, you know, did not win the Super Bowl. He was there when they won the Super Bowl. But when all that criticism erupted of him in the subsequent years, I'll always remember this. One of the big criticisms from a teammate was that he worked, he tried to come back too fast from that knee injury. Yeah. Well, what the hell?

You know what I mean? Really? Seriously? Yeah, he cares too much, right? Yeah. He wanted to get back out there. What a jackass. Yeah. I mean, I, and, you know, again, Wentz had a lot of many more failings than Jalen Hertz, but I wondered the same thing at the time. The people that are pushing him out of the building here, could this have gone another way? Could they have, you know, maybe handled this? a little better and salvaged that enormous potential that guy once had. Maybe not because his injuries eventually took those abilities away from him. But to see the cycle repeat itself. Yeah. Again. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, it's not overly surprising because I can tell you that there were people in that building who were unhappy with the framing that Kevin Petullo was the sole problem for the offense and was the preeminent reason the offense struggle. I can understand from an

outsider's perspective, you look at the fact that the Eagles returned 10 of 11 starters on offense. It was the most expensive offense in the NFL for them to be 20th and points scored with that group and Kevin Petulow being the main change that from the season before when they had a historic rushing attack, you can understand why people pointed at Kevin Petullo. And obviously, action speak louder than words. The Eagles have not overhauled their personnel on offense to this point out of season. They've overhauled the coaching staff. But I can tell you. They'll have a new slot receiver. That's it. Except for the AJ Brown business, which remains. Yeah, there's still time, you know, as Howard Rosen would say, it's April 1st.

You know, there's plenty of time. They don't play a game next week. That's his favorite saying with this time of year. But I do think that the fact that there was so much discontent with the way that Kevin Petullo was painted on his way out, it didn't surprise me that there was this sentiment to kind of make sure that Jalen Hertz was held accountable for it as well. Right. That's a very good point.

I had not really thought of it in those terms. But, yeah, that's an excellent point. To me, though, I mean, I was all in with, let's get rid of Kevin Petullo, but what really happened last year, John McMullen, you know John, made a really good point to me late in the season. He said, when Sequin Barclay ran for 2005 yards, we worried about Sequin getting worn down. Yeah.

What actually happened was we wore down the offensive line to a nub. Yeah. You had to heard that on this show, too, for the record. Oh, yeah, yeah. But that was the first time I heard it was from him. I don't know if they could have had a successful offense last season. Yeah, yeah. And I think to that point, one of my big takeaways from the owner's meetings was

Nick Siriani's press conference whenever he was asked about building out the new system, building camaraderie with the new coaching staff, and having Jalen Hertz is a big part of that conversation. And his answers all went back to needing a break, needing a reset, getting away from everything. And I have heard that sentiment a lot this offseason that, you know, the mental strain of having the truncated offseason, the physical, like the physical toll on the offensive line, the attrition. 21 games. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think you're seeing now that they are trying to get that reset. So, no, it's an excellent point. And I think all of these things wrap up into what happened with the Eagles on offense. Right. It's not as simple as saying. It was Jalen Hertz being the limiting factor or Kevin Petulow or the injuries. It was in the aggregate. And I think when you read the story, it obviously does make you feel like, okay, this was all a Jalen production.

But I think, again, this is where all these things can be true at the same time. It's a bigger picture than that. Yeah, I think we've had two seasons where the offense, it was 2023 and this last season, when the offense really founded. And I think Jalen got really frustrated both years. Yeah. But I think that's what happens when things don't go well. People do get frustrated. Absolutely.

Yeah. All right, we're going to take our first break. On the other side, I want to talk about what this really means for the Eagles. You know, it's obviously, you know, you have a big reaction when a story like this comes out. But I want to talk to less about, like, the outcomes that we think might happen based off of a story like this. So let us know what you think in the chat. And, yeah, we'll be right back in a couple seconds. What if you could have reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi?

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Or at least one big ripple effect and one, I'm going to pour cold water on a lot of this discussion. But the first ripple effect I want to talk about is something that I actually wrote about at the end of the season, which is the dual-sided nature of what Jalen Hertz has become in the Eagles' lives. locker room because I wrote a story at the end of the year about this version of Jalen Hertz that more people were starting to see, a more outward version of Jalen Hertz, a more accessible, open

version of Jalen, who has often, I think, you know, Tim put it in the story that has often been portrayed as having a force field around him. I think he's made an effort to be less standoff. Standoffish probably isn't the right word, but less detached from the team. But it's funny because you saw pieces written after mine that would suggest the opposite. And I would never refute the other side of it because I think it really depends on who you talk about. Who you talk to, yes. I remember telling

our... There are a lot of people in locker rooms. Exactly. A lot of people in that building, right? And I remember telling our viewers at the time. It's like, you read my story, you can see who I talked to. Jordan Milana, Brandon Graham, Sequin Barkley, DeVante Smith. I talk to that, like, you can see who I talk to. And I'm not

discrediting if it's anonymous sources, because obviously it's a sensitive topic. But But there's enough people where there can be diverging viewpoints on this. But I do think this more outward version of Jalen, this more open version of Jalen, I think we're going to see that more and more because a story like this, Jalen doesn't indulge like the public discourse very often, but I think we've seen him at times acknowledge when that discourse is sparked by a sentiment inside the Jefferson Health Complex. And I think this is an obvious one that will be, it will be on his radar.

And he's been, at least for me, I've always known him to be somebody who doesn't play the game. Right. I think he's going to start playing the game more. I think he kind of has to at this point. That's interesting. I had not thought of that. Yeah. But yeah, that's, it'll be very interesting to see if he has a reaction to this and what that reaction is.

You know, my takeaway from this piece, I was just kind of thinking this through in my head. this piece and Jeff McLean, our former colleague, also wrote a piece. Basically, both pieces are saying the way forward depends a lot on Jalen Hertz and how he adapts to all this change, which got me thinking, and I'm writing something that I hope to have posted eventually tonight, but I don't want to step too much on my writing, but, you know, I'll give you a little preview. You know, so they're going to make all these changes, and what happens if these changes aren't what they hope. Yeah, if the result isn't what they're hoping for,

is do you just sort of sit Sean Mannion in a corner and go back to what you did before with Sequin Barclay and hope that with a good offensive line, with a healthy offensive line, that, you know, you have success again and just sort of keep, okay, this is who we are, through it? Or do you start thinking about Jalen Hertz at that point and what's the way forward? And, you know, Jeffrey Lurie was asked about a contract for Hertz. He signed through 2028, and it doesn't seem to be a front burner issue, but, you know, where are they going to be with Jail and Hertz if this doesn't work? How much is it going to, there are already people in the building that, you know, have questions

and frustrations, how would it be perceived if this offensive reset isn't everything we all want it to be. Yeah, absolutely. I think that the moves the Eagles have made on the coaching staff and really on the offensive side in terms of personnel, you know, not necessarily moves, but having Lane Johnson back, signing Dallas Goddard back, you know, Landon Dickerson returning after, you know, reportedly considering retirement, their offensive personnel is not going to change. I think the two people that this is really going to fall at the feet of, a news flash, it's going to be Jalen Hertz and Nick Siriani. I think that this, the way that this offseason has played out so far really played is an onus and a clear, it presents a clarity on what those two guys can do, or it will,

it will come down to their performances in a way where there won't be excuses for them if it doesn't go well. So I completely agree. This is where I pour cold water on it all, though. So less than, I mean, almost 12 hours ago, I was sitting in a news conference where Jeffrey Lurie was addressing the state of the Eagles. And you'll often hear from people that Jeffrey Lorry is Jalen Hertz's biggest fan in the building. And with all of this noise that surrounds Jalen Hertz, the fact that the most important member in that organization will go to bat for him is the Trump card, the end-all be-all, right?

Jeffrey Lorry affirmed that yesterday. So I'm going to read you the quote. He says, there's no bigger fan of Jalen than me. Clutch Gene, absolutely. The guy was the Super Bowl MVP 13 months ago, should have been the MVP of the Super Bowl right before that against the Kansas City Chiefs the first time. He's so dedicated. I think you probably know, spend a lot of time with Jalen as I do with most quarterbacks, and he's incredibly dedicated to the game to winning and being a

huge winner. I love everything about him. So to me, that is a perfect window into one of the most important parts of this dynamic with Jalen internally. That's, you know, I agree with you totally, but I always keep in the back of my mind, and I've brought this up before. Yeah. 2015. Okay. So Lurie demoted Howie Roseman, his almost his second son. And there was a lot of media stuff going into the season about Chip Kelly. Trey Thomas left the coaching staff and implied that Chip was a racist. Deshaun Jackson had a lot to say about being traded. Jeffrey Lurie called us together on the practice field before the season started

and gave a fire and brimstone sermon about what a great leader and a fine man, Chip Kelly was, and how his door was always open. And Chip was just, you know, everything that Jeffrey ever wanted in a football coach and blah, blah, blah, blah. And the next time we heard from Jeffrey was late December. Yeah. A few days before the season finale, which he couldn't even wait for to fire Chip Kelly. Yeah. You know, I mean, things change.

Yeah, I was going to say, it takes, it only takes one major swing for that's a break. That is a good point, especially with Jeffrey Lorry. Like, I think all Eagles fans would agree. He's one of the best owners in the NFL, but he's not somebody who sits on his hands when he thinks it's time to act. So that's a, that's a fair observation. You know, but, you know, Jalen's not Chip Kelly. And you really are not going to have to read my damn story after this because it's, I think said the whole thing here.

Yeah. You know, Jalen hurts us. won a Super Bowl. He has a much longer rope than Chip Kelly had, but Jeffrey says things that he thinks. My point about Jeffrey is he thought he needed to say that about Chip at that moment to keep things together. It wasn't what he believed. It was what he thought he needed to say at that moment. And I always keep that in mind, you know, with these guys. It's not, you're not hearing their innermost thoughts sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. This one I feel like does underscore what the sentiment has been, though, about the fact that Jeffrey and Jalen,

Jeffrey is Jalen's biggest admirer. You know, Jeffrey missed, it was part of the organization when they missed out on Russell Wilson. And a lot of times you'll hear Jalen was like the making up for that mistraft pick. And now it's ironic because their careers do resemble each other's in certain ways and the way that they are covered. And, you know, I think one thing I wanted to hit on that we mentioned earlier, earlier. I do think that Jaylen's race plays a big part in this, but I don't think it's as, I don't think you can be as reductive to say that's the only reason that this is happening. Oh, because what you just said about Carson Wentz earlier in the show, this is an Eagles thing.

Yeah. You know, this is something that has happened enough times in this organization where I think it is bigger than, you know, I think it's a bigger thing than Jaylin's race. I think it is a, it's a product of the market, the intensity in the building. And a lot of these. things are like what makes Philadelphia special. It's what makes the Eagles a successful organization, but, you know, it's a double-ed sword. Well, I was thinking of you guys out there in Arizona. I always love covering those meetings out there. The thing that was always the most interesting to me was the coaches breakfast. They have the NFC one day and then the AFC the next day.

So you go to the NFC coaches breakfast and you look at, let's see, what's an NFC team that isn't very problem. The Arizona Cardinals table. And there's the coach and there's a guy from the website that works for the team and then there's a reporter if they're lucky. And they're just sort of sitting there for an hour, you know, talking about fishing or something. You go to the Eagles table and there's like jugglers and balloons and 75 people. And, you know, we've been there since 5.30 a.m. People are getting there at 5.30 to get a seat and they're like, I would never, I never wanted a seat. because if you're in a seat, unless you're sitting next to the coach, you're just like, you're not in any better, you can walk around and get in his ear. Yeah, but anyway, you know,

my point, which I got way away from. Well, let me just say, I was team content. I got there early so I could get the footage for PHOI. Oh, you have to get video. Yeah, I never had to get video. Yeah, but thank God. But it's just such a different atmosphere and such a different focus here than most places in the NFL. This is, this is the, I hardly believe, you know, you got New York, you got Chicago and L.A., but this is the big market where pro football means the most. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that is part of what makes it special. Yeah. So, you know, again, it's not the type of thing where it's a, it's not an outright negative. I wouldn't even call it a negative. No, it is a, but it is a complicating factor. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it really is telling that somebody like Jalen

Hertz who has been through a lot of adversity and has played at Alabama where I would say the scrutiny is probably even higher. Yeah. Can still get wrapped up into these types of things. Yeah. Because of this, the way that it can be here, which again, it's something I enjoy as somebody who talks about the Eagles every day. The last thing I wanted to say about the Hertz thing, well, I guess I've got two things.

The last, the penultimate thing I wanted to say about the Hertz thing is, and it was something that Tim and Jeremy hit on in the story is that. that Jalen often does respond well to adversity. So I do think that this is, I thought you made a good point on social media about this being like not so much of like a soundly alarm on Jalen Hertz. Just kind of a window into this is the latest adversity in Jalen Hertz's career is overcoming some of the things that are being said about him internally. Yeah, that's it. I think he will respond to that certainly. Yeah. And I think that's true. I don't want to tell. take this in a totally different direction, but if they get rid of AJ Brown, are there no excuses

for Jaylen Hertz? I mean, is that, what are they going to, this fascinates me, this whole trade scenario, because it's like almost like a fait accompli with anybody that covers the team. Well, you know, clearly they're going to trade him. There's only one bidder as far as I know. They don't seem inclined to meet Howie's price. So how is this going to happen? And how are the Eagles going to be as good or better in 2026 if they trade A.J. Brown. I understand that they'll have cap room going forward. But it doesn't help the 2020. Which sounds like a wonderful thing in April. But in October, if they're losing a game 13 to 12. Yeah, nobody's going to be saying, but the salary cap. Oh, we've got that cap room. Yeah, the cash savings. Yeah, to me, so being out there,

I feel like the Patriots are more willing to meet the lofty asking price than I would have expected. Maybe not the full asking price, but I mean, just the conversations I had, I feel like that future first and maybe a future third is more realistic than it was a few months ago, especially with some of the wide receiver trades that have happened since then. The question of how do the Eagles replace AJ Brown as a fair one? I think if you're the Eagles, you're probably exploring the trade market to see what you, what type of player you could bring in. But I think it's fair to say that if they do trade AJ Brown, which some people believe it's like a foregone conclusion. It's just a matter of when instead of if. If they do, it's a, I mean, it's a understandable

and it's a good argument that they probably won't be a better team in 2026. And nobody really talks to AJ. I mean, you'll show up on some podcast and say something, but that's the way of the world these days. That's the only way we got any comment from Jeff Stoutland was Nick Foles his podcast. Yeah. But I just can't understand how this can't be put back together somehow.

Yeah, and I have a hard time with that. I'm not convinced that there's not a roadback for him. I just, I think that the asking price might get met. So we'll see. We'll see. It's going to be a holding pattern. So it's like, you know, it's going to be the same conversation for a few months here. But anyway, we're going to take a quick break.

On the other side, I'm going to give you my last take from Jeffrey Lurie's press conference on Jalen. And then we're going to trade some takeaways. on Jeffrey Lurie's press conference. So back in a couple minutes, let me know what you guys are thinking about the Jalen Hertz conversation in the chat, and we will see you in a few minutes. March means one thing. It's go time for college basketball and Major League Baseball,

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Treat yourself to a scoop of happiness today. Be cool. Go to Rita's. All right, we are back on the P.HoI. Eagle Show. So, Les, my true final takeaway is one of my takeaways from Jeffrey Lurie's press conference, which maybe you can argue actions speak louder than words because as much as effusive as his praise was for Jalen Hertz, he was asked a question about Jalen Hertz being in a window for a contract extension.

Well, let me be clear. He was asked a question about Jalen being in a window for a contract extension, and he assumed that the conversation was about Jalen Carter, which I think is very telling for the, as you put it, the fact that it's not on the front burner. Right. A Jalen Hertz extension.

And I'm not saying it should be, but I do think that that is indicative of where they stand with the quarterback. They want to see what happens this season. Yep. I think before they do another mega, understandably so. A deal that they can't get out from under for five years. Yeah, they're going to be talking about 60 million plus annual.

I mean, that's where Doc Prescott is right now. It's 60 million. So anyway, so that was one of my takeaways. But I'm curious what your big takeaway was from Jeffrey Lurie's news conference last night. There was a lot of stadium talk. Yeah. I'm 70 years old. I might not be here by the time they get the stadium bill.

Certainly. I think so. I think we're going to see one. and it's not going to be 20 years from now. It'll be 10 or maybe less. And I don't know where it's going to be exactly. But time does pass. I covered the opening of the link,

which doesn't seem that long ago. But really, they've been in the link about as long as they were in the vet before they started talking about getting a new stadium. and the link was, the upkeep was horrible there. You can, I mean, the vet, I'm sorry. The vet could have been a much better place than it was. Kansas City had, and still has, the same stadium that is much better that the city just didn't take care of it.

But nonetheless, the vet was no more than 25 years old when people started, you know, talking about new stadiums for the Phillies and the Eagles. Right. And, you know, it took another five to seven years to get those built. But yeah, we're at that point. We really are. Yeah. Now, I will not get on my soapbox again about the tradition in the NFL, really, like

in American sports of not just caring for a stadium and letting it grow old. And I'm romantic about those things. I won't get all my soapbox about it because I've done that enough on the show. But it did stand out to me as well that Jeffrey Lurie was noncommittal about the location. of the potential new stadium. I want to make sure we always say like potential new stadium. They could renovate the link,

which again would be up my alley. But yeah, I thought, I don't think it's necessarily like an indication that they're going to be elsewhere, like that they're going to leave the sports complex. But I did find it noteworthy that Jeffrey Lurie is, at least they're still early enough in the process where he's not going to close the door

on a potential other location to swoop in and become a real player in this. Real player, that's a really, good way to put it because I think what he probably I think what all these teams want is for South Jersey or somebody to make a bid and then for Philadelphia to have to step up and exactly yeah I think that's that's the best case scenario and that is why you don't say oh we'd love to stay at the sports complex so you know I think that that's probably a good explainer for like Eagles fans who are worried about that you know obviously you know as you know Lindsay shout

to Lindsay for flashing up the graphic of Jeffrey Laurie saying we'll do what's best for the fans but yeah I do think that That is code for we are not going to commit to anything until we know who's going to be the most aggressive to keep us. And at this point, I don't think Jeffrey's going to build another stadium that won't host a Super Bowl. Yes. So I, as somebody who is romantic about stadiums, don't love the idea of the Eagles playing in a dome. No. Not a straight dome at all.

I think a retractable roof. Yeah, I think that that's probably where he'll land based off of, he's talked before about how he loves weather games. And it's an advantage. It is absolutely, I mean, the Eagles playing the Rams in the NFC playoffs two years ago should inform how much of an advantage it can be. So I would expect it to be a retractable roof. But yeah, I mean, it would be very interesting to see where they end up with this. I think I take Jeffrey Laurier's word.

He said that they're still in the exploratory phase of this. They're studying stadiums worldwide. It's not just NFL stadiums or studying soccer stadiums in Barcelona and Madrid and, you know, all throughout. Europe as well, and I think there's probably a timeline. I think, you know, so Jeffrey Lurie said he hopes it'll have something more concrete next year. But I do think they're probably in a seven to eight year window where this is going to get done. Yeah, I think that's about right.

Yeah. One of my big takeaways from Jeffrey Lurie's news conference was actually what we mentioned earlier, Jalen Carter. So he mentioned that, you know, they don't talk about contract extension with players. obviously he's a great player the fact that he was talking about Jalen Carter when everyone else was expecting him to talk about Jalen Hertz created some confusion but when you listen back to what he said

I did find it very interesting that a follow-up question was asked of him what do you think of the season that Jalen had now he's thinking Jalen Carter and he didn't really know what to say he just went good you know and like you know again I think it's understandable the answer because Jalen Carter did have

up and down season. He was hurt. Yeah, it was all the time. There's a lot to unpack with Jalen Carter's season. But I do think it's still telling because of the fact, I've said before on Jalen Carter and this extension speculation, the Eagles are typically very proactive in getting these deals done. I think the fact that it hasn't gotten done yet is an acknowledgement of how

this is not a straightforward deal to do. No. I still would expect it to get done. I think Jailen Carter will reset the defensive tackle market. I think he is deserving of that based off his talent. But yeah, I think that that number is going to be tricky to agree on, especially with Drew Rosenhaus as Jalen Carter's agent. And I think that's probably why it's going to take a little bit longer. Well, you have a guy who, you know, there's, he hasn't done anything horrible since he got to the Eagles.

But there are concerns about his maturity still, I think. Yeah. And they did expect him to become a dominant defensive player of the year type guy last season. And it didn't happen. Now, I really give them a pass there because of the injuries and because of the whole Super Bowl thing that we talked about. Jordan Milata didn't have a great year last year either. Yeah, sure.

That's just the way it goes sometimes when you're carrying a big load for a team that plays 21 games. But it wasn't what they wanted. And I think there's a little bit of concern there. It'll be interesting to see how that does work out. But yeah, you're right. They'll end up giving him the money. But I'm real, there's some ups and downs probably to go through before we get to that.

I don't think it's going to be like tomorrow. Absolutely. I mean, the fact that they got Jordan Davis's extension done sooner, I think speaks to how that was a more straightforward decision. Maybe not entirely straightforward, but still a more straightforward decision. All right, what's your next takeaway from Lori? Or do you want me to double up here? I wish we saw this side of Jeffrey more often. He is still salty about the outcome of Super Bowl 59.

He's mentioned it at least three or four times. Feels it was stolen from them. The tush push, he made a joke about dialing down the effectiveness on purpose. You know, there's a part of him that's like the fans. But you don't really get that sense of his personality very often. Yeah. You know, and I think it would, I mean, people love him because the team's been so good, but, and because in the history of the ownership of the Eagles is a dreadful one.

Yeah. But still, I think he could be like, you know, a Jason Kelsey type icon if he gave people a little more of his. A little bit more of that personality. You're right. He does have like, like a, I mean this in a complimentary way, like a childlike wonderment about football. Yeah. Like he finds every facet of it so interesting. He also talked about dogs a lot in his enthusiasm for that.

So shout out to him. I appreciated that. I told him afterward. I appreciate the dog shout out. Before I give you guys my next big takeaway, I want to tell you, we still have a couple tickets left for France film session. It's on April 8th from 6 o'clock to 8 o'clock.

And you will get a chance to meet Connor Barwin. And this is an event in partnership with Connor Barwin's organization, and make the world better. So yeah, like I said, a few more tickets left. Make sure to grab them before they're sold out. It's going to be a really great event. I'm sure you've got some good Connor Barwin stories, Les. He was a great guy.

I wish when he went to the front office, I was thinking, hey, there's a source. But no, he's not interested in that at all. He doesn't want to say. Unfortunately, yeah, he was great as a player for me, but not so much as a front office guy. He's very smart. One of the smarter people I've ever come across? would make a very good mayor or, you know. Maybe that's in his future.

He's probably, he probably has his eyes on. Well, his dad was, his dad is a city manager. And he comes from that background. He's been, dad's managed a different Michigan and Florida cities. I did a story one time with his dad about that. But yeah, he has a lot of interest in those kinds of things. But he seems to be channeling himself more toward football. It'll be real interesting to see where he ends up there

because I don't think he's going to spend the next 20 years as kind of an adjunct front office guy. I don't know what his path toward being a GM would be. I don't know. Yeah, but I mean, I wouldn't rule it out. I mean, he's a sharp guy for sure if that's what he wants to do. All right, we're going to take our last break. And then on the other side, I'm going to give you one of my big takeaways, another vote of confidence that Jeffrey Lurie gave out yesterday. So stay tuned.

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P.H.O.I. for free operational assessment. All right. We are back on the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. You know, Les, when I was in Phoenix, are you a fan of the Citizen Public House, a place with a chop salad? I don't think I've been there. Well, usually the staples that I go to when I'm there, it's the Citizens Public House, give them free advertising because they've got probably my favorite chop salad anywhere. And then I like to get to In-N-Out Burger. I don't think In-N-Out Burger is, like, significantly better than the burger options we have here. but it's just different.

It's kind of fun. It is different. And there's a whole Western vibe. I don't think In-N-Out Burger would hit here like the way it does when you're out in the sun, you know. Oh, for sure. That's a good, that's a good observation. Like something about five guys just is like a good, hearty East Coast spot. So a lot of free advertising going on.

Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Really. Well, I had a favorite place out there, but it closed. So I don't feel bad about mentioning. It was called Cowboy Chow. Okay. Scottsdale.

Chow was C-I-A-O. Nice. I like that. But Damo would always complain because Domo was Paul Domo, which was a very meat and potatoes type of guy. Cowboy Chow was kind of a more evolved concept for Damo, and he would never knew what he was eating and was always grumbling about it. Yeah, he loved the Indianapolis trip because you could go to like five straight steakhouses. Yes, exactly, yes. And I see straightforward. I see Fran in the chat saying in and out is overrated.

I would agree with that sentiment. I don't think that in and out is top. top two burger joint. You know, that genre has some really good contenders and I would not say that In and Out's in there. The biggest issue I have with In and Out,

even though I was saying I wanted to go, I think it's fine, is that you have to, like, order so specifically. You have to, like, know, like, the secret menu. Yeah. But then sometimes if you order off the secret menu, like, oh, I want them animal style or I want them over hard,

they like, sometimes it feels like they take it personally, and they are like, I will burn these fries because you said you want them over hard. Yeah. Like, you think my fries aren't cooked properly, like I'll show you. And it's just, it's too much of a moving target.

I was not aware of this. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there's like a whole secret in and out menu that's too, too tricky to nail down. So that's why you should just stick with Wawa and Rita's. Yeah. That's right. That's, you always know what you're going to get.

Yeah. So, um, all right. So my, one of my other takeaways from Jeffrey Lurray's news conference, a vote of confidence for Nick Siriani. Yeah. And I thought it was very noteworthy that he really pointed to the paint, the picture that Nick Siriani has painted over his career, and especially over the last two years, rather than focusing solely on the way that last year ended. He says that Nick's performance has

been nothing short of outstanding, one of the best first five years in the history of the NFL, two Super Bowls in the last three years, to your point, one of which we won, one of which was taken away from us, and I'm still bitter. And then he went on to say, nobody was more hurt by the losing in the Super Bowl, or not making it to the Super Bowl, but he said, be realistic. The guy has done a great job. So I was very curious to hear what he said about Nick Siriani. Again, like, I feel like at the owners meetings, you're kind of like listening out for tonal shifts. You know, a lot of times you are going to hear like what they should say, but you want to be able to pick up on, oh, is that what's the point of emphasis there? And I think organizationally, there has been an effort to make

sure to point out that Nick has been extremely successful. And that he does more behind the scenes and people would give him credit for it. And this is the most exasperating part of the whole Nick Siriani experience to me is obviously there's a lot more than we see in these press conferences. Because what we see in these press conferences is a junior high gym teacher. You know, I mean, I have never covered a coach who was more exasperating to cover than this guy. these three minute long answers that say nothing and, you know, it gets asked about Jeff Stoutland

and it's like, oh, yeah, all those guys that left, that's too bad. You know, I, it just, there has to be a lot more there. And obviously there is. Yeah, we just don't get it. I completely agree with you, especially in this facet here. I think that Nick Siriani is so focused on not giving up anything schematically that he oftentimes doesn't,

he avoids explaining concepts and explaining... Anything. Yeah, like the fundamentals of football. He gets really down in the fundamentals about it. Like, you know, he was asked about tight ends and what they're looking for in the new system and he basically just says, well, you have a pass-catching specialist you can't block

if you put them on the field, everyone knows you're passing. And it's like, I know... Yeah, we know this. Yeah, and I know for a fact from talking to players that he does have X's and O savvy. He is a great teacher. He is able to. to communicate very well to a group about these very complicated concepts. You know, like,

I was on the phone with my dad on the way in here, and he's explaining to me, you know, how motion affects combo blocks. And like, he's getting in the weeds about this stuff and all the terminology. Like, I know that Nick Siriani has like 10 times, no offense to my dad. I know Nick Siriani has like 10 times the acumen to be able to explain those things. And he doesn't. He oftentimes avoids that. So for that reason, I do think from an outside perspective, you can think he doesn't have a good handle on these things. But I wish he was more, you know, insightful sometimes in those settings. Even if it's not tactics, I'm glad I wasn't at the news conference late in the season last year. You guys had a Thursday game. Yeah. And somebody asked him, Nick, what's your philosophy

about Thursday games? How do you get the team ready? I'm never going to discuss with you guys. Seriously, dude. Yeah. You have a secret plan for getting ready for Thursday games. games that none of the other 31 teams is ever going to hit upon unless you give them the secret here in this press conference. Come on, man. Yeah, no, they have a firm belief that, and you know, I think the only defense I will offer for Dixiriani here is that I think that they are that maniacal about other coaches saying things in press conferences. I think that they like maniacically they have someone listen to every word of that. they say, but I tend to agree with you. I'm not sure that explaining that you want a tight end that's

strong at the point of attack is necessarily going to be giving up the ghost with your new offensive system. Or what your practice thoughts might be about a Thursday freaking game. Yeah, yeah. You know, people, people used to rail on Andy Reed. The league was a different place nearly 15 years ago when he left. But even Andy Reed was, you could get a better sense of things from that guy than you can this coach. And that having been said, tremendous coach, obviously wildly successful. But I hate listening to him talk. I just, I do. Well, I think he has changed a lot. We talked about it on, I think it was Monday show, about how much Nick has changed over the years. And I think it's, for the worse. I think it's fair to say that he has, I want to say beaten down by the job because I think

that's probably a little too negative. Yeah. I think the job has taken a toll on him. You know, I think that he is closed down. Yes. I think he is, yeah, he is definitely less open and less, I don't know the right word for it. It's probably because I took the red eye in and I'm, I'm finding it hard to find some of the words. But yeah, this is a different version of him that we are getting now. And I, yeah, I agree. I miss the version of him that had that, like, you know, wonderment. Yeah, that enthusiasm about the game, at least publicly. I'm sure he still has it behind the scenes, but we have seen a very different version of Nick Siriani, somebody who has had to endure these different waves of teams and things to overcome. And obviously,

they've had a lot of success. It's something that Jeff Reeler spoke about is that the expectations in the building, around the building, you know, in the fan base, like they have ratcheted up so much that there is a lot of, you know, intensity around that team. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I wonder how it affects them. I really do, because I think they do, they don't laugh it off. I mean, from what you've told me and other reporters told me they were, when, when those kids egged Kevin Petullo's house, that was the media's fault.

Yes. You know. I, I, hmm. Yeah. You know? Yeah, no, I mean, I just, obviously, I disagree with that. I mean, it is, it is an intense city. maybe social media we could talk about.

But yeah, in terms of the way that we've covered them, at least here, I feel like we've been, I feel like we're always balanced with the discussions we have. I mean, you think about the 30 minutes we did talking about Jalen Hertz earlier. That was a pretty nuanced conversation there. It was. Yeah. Did you find it interesting that Jeffrey Lurie said he's more involved now than ever with the Eagles day-to-day operation? Yeah, you know, analytics was a tremendous thing.

for Jeffrey because I think that really opened up. Many years ago, Jeffrey and Joe Banner were seen as these effete snobs, nerds, and the football guys in the organization didn't want anything to do with them. And I've told this story before. I'll tell it again. I have to remember the guy's name now. When they were hiring Andy Reid, they also, Jim Haslett. They also interviewed Jim Haslett.

Jim Haslett was very close to Tom Modrake, who was the general manager. This is before I was covering the Eagles, but I've heard this story many times and told it many times. So Modrake wants them to interview Jim Haslett. They sit down with Jim Haslitt's Jeffrey and Joe and Jim Haslett. And Jim Hazlitt starts telling them about how he's not going to, they're going to go sit in the corner. He's not going to brook any interference from these guys that don't know anything about, football and, you know, he understands that's been a real problem here before. Yeah. And, you know, if they're going to hire him, they better be ready for him to, him and Tom to run things. Yeah.

And so, you know, they, he leaves the room and Jeffrey and Joe look at each other and like, okay, Tom Modrack, hmm. And Tom Muddrak was fired shortly there. And they did not hire Jim Hasley. But yeah, Jeffrey was seen as an outsider, I think even by Andy a little bit, you know, And over the years it has evolved, as analytics has pushed its way into football. Jeffrey understands that part of it. Even if he was never a player, he can tell you the first time anything, in the early years of that, he made a comment about Lido Shepard once about giving up too much yards after catch. And Lido was like openly like, I've never heard of this.

What the hell is he talking about? Yeah, yeah. I intercept passes and beat the Cowboys. Isn't that enough? Yeah. But that's always been Jeffrey's hobby horse, and he has ridden it into the center of, you know, the football operation,

and I think he's very comfortable there. Although he did talk a lot about Julian. He got in some Julian stuff at the end about Julian's development and the people that he's around. Absolutely. But I do think, you know, and by the way, we are in overtime. Sorry. I talk a lot.

No, it's fine. It's fine. Totally fine. I was going to say he talks about how you are seeing more and more of Julian. But I think Jeffrey believes that he's got a long time left being in this position and running things. So we'll see. He's a good bit older than me. Yeah.

So we'll see. I mean, I hope so for both of our sakes. But, you know, I don't know about that. I mean, in five years, Jeffrey's going to be like 80. It would be 79, I think, yeah. Yeah? So, I mean, we, Jerry Jones isn't doing too great in these 80s as a GM. Well, that's a different job.

Yeah, that is a different job. I mean, Jeffrey said that he's up at 4 a.m. thinking, like, is it too early to text Howie about? About a long snapper. And I'm thinking, BS. That's not what, you might text him before I am, but it's not about that. It's not about the long snapper. Yeah, yeah.

Well, no, I found that interesting. Did anything else jump out to you about Jeffrey Lewis's news? conference? He talked about how tough it was to repeat, but that they were the co-favor. He kept going back to the fact that they went into the season of the co-favorant. I don't think it set well with him that they lost in the wild card round of the playoffs. Obviously, I mean, it didn't sit well with us either, but I think he very clearly expected more out of that team while understanding the problems that, you know, fatigue and injuries created. They didn't have, it wasn't like the 49. where they got, you know, eight starters out.

Yeah, it wasn't like, it wasn't necessarily attrition on like the injury report. I think it was probably attrition like mentally and emotion. And the way that the guys played. Yeah. But yeah, now that is a good observation there. All right. Well, this has been good. I had one more question for you.

That's totally unrelated. So I say news conference because of Jim Swan. Okay. That was like a big inquire copy thing. It's not a press conference. It's a news conference. Do you say press conference or newscom? You know, I think I use them interchangeably.

Okay. Yeah. I think I've heard that as well from, that was probably our style too at the Daily News. Yeah. I don't really, I'm out of it for a while now and I don't really think so much in style terms anymore. But yeah, that's a good news news because it's more than just, there is no press and more practically.

Yeah. Shout out to Jim. So I always thought it was like because it was shorter, you know, just easier. Yeah. More efficient. And more accurate. Yeah. I think there are probably 20 people who found that part,

this part of this conversation interesting. But I appreciate those 20 people. I'll bring up one more in that, sort of in that vein. So among the people gleefully jumping on the Jalen Hertz controversy thing today was Chase Daniel on social media, who opined that their, T-H-E-I-R must be trouble in Philadelphia. I wonder if Chase actually grabs. graduated from the University of Missouri or not. I'm going to say not.

Yeah, he studied football, right? They don't, they don't, they don't pay it. He didn't go there to play school, right? That's what he would say. Guy was shorter than me. Spend of years the backup quarterback. Really thought he was going to be the starter when they traded Sam Bradford. Yeah.

He thought, well, Wince is a rookie. Doug's my guy. I'll, I'll get to start some games. Now, 10 years later, he's still, uh, still salty, it would seem. Yeah, still nitpicking quarterback play. It's an interesting genre of social. There's a lot of interesting genres of social media. Indeed.

Yeah. All right, that's going to do it for us at the P.Hoy Eagles podcast. I appreciate you less for coming in. It was good fun. You lived up to the billing as the Jeffrey Lorry translator, and I think we had a good conversation about Jalen Hertz in there too. So thanks again for coming in. Appreciate it.

It was great. Yeah, thank you to Lindsay. Thank you to all of you in the chat. I will be back tomorrow talking draft, I think, and probably a couple other things. So like you said, thanks. Thanks everybody for watching, and as always, we love you.