PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Jordan Davis, Nolan Smith to carry a heavier load for the Eagles defense in 2025

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

To hear Vic Fangio say it, the Eagles defense is in a similar position this year to where it was a year ago when no one expect Zack Baun to burst onto the scene as an All-Pro linebacker or Cooper DeJean and Quinyon Mitchell to turn into the best young tandem of cornerbacks in the league or C.J. Gardner-Johnson to bring his tenacity. Now, it’s up to the likes of Jordan Davis and Nolan Smith to be on the field more often and for someone to emerge from the linebacker and safety competitions as the new top dog and to Kelee Ringo to turn into a fully competent cornerback. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf discuss what they learned from the second OTA and spin things forward to what will matter come September. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast on a beautiful Wednesday afternoon presented by TrueMark Financial Bo-Wolf, Zach Berman in studio one day after the second open OTA of the spring. Get to see some footballs, Zach. I'd be feeling good. Yes. I like variety in my days. So Monday, we're out on golf course. Tuesday. I'm at a football field. Wednesday, I'm in the studio. I don't know where Thursday is going to take me. We'll see. But this is, this is fun. It's good being here with you. Good to see you. We are adjacent to where they are setting up for the next episode of the exciting mics. So there might be some fun little behind the scenes things going on here at the studio.

We're going to end on time today. No, overtime. But that's okay. We'll make it up tomorrow. Don't worry about that. We have lots to talk about it. Now, on yesterday's show, we really went through the depth chart stuff. Yes.

I don't know if there's anything you need to get to on that front. But we didn't get to talk to you really about the players that you talked to and some of the other big takeaways. So a couple big picture things I want to talk about and get your reaction to the players that you did talk to. But what are you smiling at? I'll circle back to it. I'll circle back though because I don't want to deviate from the show itself right now. I don't know. But I have some notes.

Is it a Kenyon Green thing or is it? No, no, no. I have some notes. Let me just write down. Let me just make sure that we circle back. Circle back to Zach's notes. And it's with love. I want to make sure that's clear.

It's with love. That's okay. Okay. Okay, okay. It's all with love. Okay. As always, I love you. As always.

You too. All right. I want to start, I want to start with Jordan Davis. Jordan Davis, I think, was a big topic yesterday. Yeah. Literally. Good one. Vic Fangio, ducking the question.

Only question he ducked ever. Although I think he kind of ducked the Bryce off question. Yeah, he did give a, no sense of him throwing a guy who's already gone under the bus. No, but he could have just been like, we moved on, you know, he could have done that. I know. To blame the hand as for why he's not here, like that, the hand didn't fall off his body. It's still there now.

The hand presumably worked during training camp. I mean, I thought the thing about him talking about how we measure guys hands and arms, and he didn't even have that. It's like, yeah, we're really a very funny bit. Yeah. That's the one note he took in the pen to prep. Yeah. Mention, mentioned the pre-draft.

Yeah. Although, you know what? I actually, tell me if you felt this way, the answer he gave about how this year's defense is like last year's defense and then he's rattling off the names, that was the only time ever in a Vic Vanjoa press conference. I feel like he had prepared his answer. And he was like reading off.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, he brings the Jeff chart in front of him. I think he, I think that's the only time. Okay. Where I felt like he felt like he wanted to say that ahead of time. So you thought he was going to get a question about death? He thought he was going to put out the death. Or it was one of those things where it was a point he wanted to enforce.

Maybe that's the case because he did wait until it was like the third to last question of the press conference. So you're right. I was going to say poor KJ. Henry, man. I mean, he went, he was like three other guys. Three other guys. Well, how do you know that he was not? Powell Rylent. KJ. Henry.

And then are we talking Patrick Johnson? Are we talking? O'Shawn Mathis. So I feel like I don't know. Because there's four guys that could have been. Sure. three other guys. So who was he leaving on?

Well, I mean, maybe Patrick Johnson's off ball, although I don't know. That's not where he was playing yesterday. Yeah, I know that with the ones. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know the answer. One of those guys, you know, it's good because if he did, if he said, you know,

O'Shawn Mathis and not KJ. Henry, then all of a sudden you're dealing with a really disappointed player. But now they're just thinking, oh, he forgot O'Shawn. And O'Son's thinking,

oh, he forgot KJ. Are we thinking, too, that, Tristan McCollum is Vic Fangio's favorite player. So this is, I will stick by what I said yesterday on the show that I think, I think, I think Tristan is a bit of a red herring. I think Andre Sam is the dark horse to keep in mind. No, I mean, you don't have to convince me on Andre Sam.

Andre Sam, here's twice in the book. Three times. I took him out of the acknowledgments. You were to say you were starting off with Sanjured Andre, Sam? No, no, no. I'll just give it. I was making the point. Thank you, Emily and the kids.

and also to Andre. I was making the point how everyone matters. Every, I'm grateful. So I was saying I value, he was represented. Oh, yeah.

So I was, I wrote in there, I value everyone's time from Jeffrey Lurie to Andre Sam. And then as I was reading it back, I thought, I thought, yeah, I mean,

I didn't want to put Andre Sam there. So I just, so did you say from Jeffrey Lurie to the last man on the practice? I changed it to Jeffrey, Lori, Halle, Roseman, Nick Siriani to the bottom of the practice squad. Okay. I changed it to that.

Yeah, that would have been a tough drive by on Andre. And real quick, I want to say, Marissa, I care so much about you. You know, I love you,

Marissa. How about that? Am I not to say that? Wow, says it to Marissa, but not to me. It's right in front of you. I love you,

Bo. Just a boy standing in front of a boy. No. But it was the shirt really, really like blindingly white. So the only. The omission of Marissa in the last acknowledgement section haunted me, haunted me. Rightfully so.

Yeah. And I want to make sure, Julia, you have a dedicated sentence in the acknowledgement section. Wait, does Marissa? No. So Marissa haunted you and you're making it up by just the next blonde lady producer. No, he doesn't do with the blonde lady producer. It was, the book is about the season. So there's an acknowledgement about Bo.

And then there's an acknowledgement about Julia. Because the book is about the season. And the three of us were a team during the season. So that's- Did you circle back to your past editors like you did with your most recent book? I didn't mention my name. Just mentioned my editors at the Washington Post,

the Newark Star Ledger, the Philadelphia News, the Philadelphia, and the Athletic. Now this is just a flex for all the places you've worked. No, no. I'm answering your question. I think you should have said all my past editors. All have a from the great set the Washington Post to and then you name somebody who's not that good. You pull down to Sam.

Yeah. So all have a part in every word I write. I write that. Okay. Now some of them might not want a part everywhere. I'm going to say. Yeah. I mean, you know, if they're not editing it, then maybe they don't like the words now.

You're making them responsible for. Anyways, back to Jordan Davis. Back to Jordan Davis. Zach, I want to talk about the word of the day presented by our friends at Art of Words. Julia, sorry to catch you off guard there. The word of the day presented by our good friends or friend at Art of Words.

And by the way, get your hands on one of those sweet bad boys is disciplined. Oh, that was just discipline. He used in the past tense, disciplined, as far as you have to be disciplined. There's a big difference. We've got to figure it. It's the word of the day.

Do we have a deatine? the end or not? Yes, there is a D at the end of discipline here. I'm pulling up the full quote here just to make sure. No, I'm sorry, there's no day at the end. Correct. No D at the end of this. So, yeah, the word of the day is discipline. Discipline. Discipline. Discipline. So we're going now, not adjective. Okay. And why is that? Because Jordan Davis spoke about being in the best shape of what's so funny. And this is, if you did this, I would get upset. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to tell you about a chat thing.

Jordan Davis was speaking about being the best shape of his career. And because Vic Fangio brought this up. And I asked what went into it. And I'm going to read the quote here. So it was a good quote. And this isn't the entirety of the quote, but the majority of it. Quote, it's a lot that you didn't see to reach this point. I know that sounds cliche, but the middle scores at Henry B. DuPont know exactly what I'm

talking about. It's about getting out there, getting a little movement, a little extra work. I fell in love with the Peloton in the second half of the season. Were there any follow-ups on Peloton? I want to know who was- Yeah, his favorite instructor. I'll get to that in a second. And shout out to Olivia Reiner did a great job with this. So I fell in love with the Peloton in the second half of the season. I know it's like, dang, you're doing it in the season, but I felt it was completely necessary for me to reach the next level, reach the next step, putting in a little sweat equity. the extra things.

When I did that and I was consistent with it, the trajectory for how I was playing took off. Proud of myself, that's one thing I decided to continue on doing. I didn't think last year going in the off season, I understood it. But I think last year in the off season, I understood it,

but I didn't practice it. So now just being consistent at it. I wouldn't say I didn't practice it because I did, but being consistent at it. My word of the year for 2025 is discipline. Discipline is having the strength to do it even when you don't feel like doing it. He went on to say he's being a better pro.

He went on to say that he wanted to look sexy. He felt he was getting a little heavy in the face. And so all of this combined is why Jordan Davis is in, as Vic Vanjo said, the best shape of his career. Now, Olivia Reiner. Do you have an answer on who his favorite is? Yes. I want to guess because I didn't see this. You have an answer?

Olivia has an answer. She said it in the media room. So I didn't ask Jordan specifically. Olivia asked Jordan. And is it a one? Is it, there was one. There's one. And you know who it is?

Yes. All right. I'm going to guess Jordan Davis. I'm going to guess Tunday. No. Cody Rigsby. No. You have the wrong gender.

Well, those were two different genders. Oh, I thought they both is. Which one is female? Tune Day is female. Gotcha. Okay. Is he a, uh, Jess? No.

Oh, interesting. Is he a... The name has been used. A part of the name has been used on this show. Part of the name has been used on the show. We've done a lot of shows. I mean this specific episode? This specific episode.

A part of the name? So is it a Julia or Marissa? Is there somebody who I'm not thinking of? Someone you're not thinking of. It's a word that was prominently used on this show. Julia knows what I'm talking about, I think. Discipline. No.

Disciplined. No. I don't know. But it is a word you can make into, you can add a D to the end of this word. I don't know. Who is it? Awee Love.

Oh, Allie Love. Are you an Allie Love guy? Alli Love is good. Okay. You know what, though? I got to tell you, from a Jordan Davis standpoint, Allie Love is not pushing you that hard.

No? You're like, you're having a good time. It's a nice, it's an enjoyable half an hour or 45 minutes, whatever it is. But I don't feel that Allie Love is like squeezing the last drop out of you.

What? flex this is here what i meant that you are you are so good at the peloton that you know all the instructors i'm not good at it i just i'm advanced that you know all the instructors well how many instructors have you you've worked a ton day okay yeah there's a lot of them i've don't now i've known i've known i've voted vines with most of you've worked with cody you've worked with down with with with alley yeah so you choose by the instructor uh sometimes yeah i now i would go for i want like a climb ride, I'm going to get the most, that's how I'm going to get the most, you know, calories out.

Admittedly, and I probably should change this. I've gotten away from the Peloton. Well, I mean, you've been doing F-45. You're looking great. But, well, that's nice you to say. But no, for cardio, I prefer taking walks and listening to a podcast. So did that this morning. But so.

I had a soft pretzel. No, we're basically. No, but I was going to say when I did the Peloton, I would choose based on the music. Like the theme, yeah, not the instructor. Yeah. Well, the thing is that I am, if I'm doing it every day, then you're more star for choice,

whereas if I'm doing it less often, which unfortunately I am, then I can just go to who I want to do. I did the instructor during COVID. I worked with the same instructor a few days in a row. And Emily accused me of having like a big crush on this instructor. Oh. Guiltiest charge there.

I mean, Whoa. She made the ride very pleasant, but, um, holy smokes. But, um, how you pedal with that thing?

All right. Anyways, back to Jordan Davis. Here's my question about Jordan Davis. Yeah. I know that we have been through this before. Last spring, everybody's saying how good he looks.

Last summer, everybody's saying how good he looks. My question is not really about is this false positive or, you know, how much this matters. It is, does this matter? Because is the reason that Jordan Davis is so far down Vic Fangio's

preff list? I mean, he was fourth in snaps last year among defensive tackles. I hadn't even internalized that he played fewer snaps in Morrow Jomo last year. Is the reason... Moro Jomo. Yes. Okay, go on. Oh, Jomo. That's what I said.

Oh, Jomo. You're correct. Okay. You were ready for the correction that you didn't need. You didn't listen when I said it correctly. I was reinforcing what you said. Go on. Please proceed.

Now I'm going to get dusty. Does the conditioning matter? Or is it just that Vic Vanjo doesn't think he belongs on the field that often? Yeah, Bo, I think you hit it on the head. And I think that it probably is more to do with the ladder. It's a bit of a distraction. I think it's a convenient, I don't want to say narrative, but a convenient rationalization, right? Jordan Davis was the 14th pick in the draft when at Georgia, it wasn't like he was, you know, this, this felt 320 pounder, right?

The appeal to him has always been the size. Now, the conditioning, I think, matters if you wear down toward the end of the year. You can't take a certain amount of snaps. my presumption is that Jordan Davis not being on the field as much during portions of the season had less to do with the conditioning he was in and more to do with the like the lack of pass rush juice now we'll see this year it does I do think there are people in that building who felt Jordan Davis need to be in better conditioning whether it was an indication of commitment whether it was how they felt it could avoid injury, whatever it may be. But I don't think the reason why his playing time was what it was for portions of last year, I think it had more to do with the skill set and less to do with the conditioning. And I heard, I heard she'll make this point that, you know, if we're talking about his

conditioning was, was way better in the second half of the season. It's worth noting that he played a lot less in the second half of the season. You know, he didn't play, he played one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, in the last nine games of the season, he played one game with more than 20 snaps, whereas he had done that a bunch in the first half of the season. the season. So for us to just believe that he was in better shape, sure, requires a leap of faith. It wasn't reflected in the snaps. And if it was that important, then he would have been on the field more. Do you feel it was reflected in the production or the

performance? Well, you can make that case, right? Because he for once was productive as a past match for the playoffs. He had those two sacks. I don't know. I, I am still skeptical. I think Jordan Davis is a good player. And I think they picked up the option because they're still upside and he's a howie guy. And I think there are some real reasons to think that his personality matters in the room, given the makeup of players on defense. But I would be surprised if he is productive enough and earns Vicks favor enough to actually on the field be worth the money he's going to get paid as the fifth year option.

Sure. Now, that fifth year option is a year away. I know. Yeah. As Jordan pointed out, like, there's all this talk about year five. He's still going into year four. No, I, I don't want to. Like, do you think that, do you think there's any chance that he plays the second most

snaps on the, among the defensive tackles this year? Last year, so Jalen Carter played 81% of the snaps. This is including the playoffs. Milton Williams was like just at 50%. It was 49.5%. Then Morrow was at 37%. Jordan Davis was at 34% and Thomas Booker was at 14%.

What is a realistic expectation for how many snaps he's going to play this year? So to answer your question on a per game basis, my answer is no. I don't think he'll be the second. I think Moro Ojima would be the second. I think now the reason I said per game basis is if Morrow misses,

sure, you know, 10 weeks or something or Jalen Carter misses 10 weeks, Jordan Davis might be the second. But no, I think that I do think how he believes, how he genuinely believes that this position, as you've documented for years. I mean,

you were ahead of this before anyone in the Philly media that defensive tackles take a longer period of time. I'll take whatever credit you're giving me. I don't know if I'd necessarily deserve that. No, no, you've brought data to show that, like I think you've showed which positions are slower developing, which positions are longer developing. Defense of tackles one that's longer developing,

to the point that Hallie Roseman has used that as a talking point this year. He was on WIP after the fifth year option was picked up and literally said, if you look at it historically, this is a position where sometimes it doesn't click for guys until year three or four, right? And so I do think it's conceivable that he has more that how he genuinely thinks the tools in the body are there to use Howie's expression, that the personality's there, the want to's there, and that it's going to be put together. and I said when they picked up the fifth year option and I stand by this, they consider it a far more of a risk

to not pick up the fifth year option and Jordan Davis turning into a $20 million year player than picking up the fifth year option and Jordan Davis being worth maybe $4 or $5 million less than he's getting paid. That's fair. That's a totally reasonable calculation. I still, I just, I think the, I think the fitness level for him is a bit of a misdirect.

It's much more about, I mean, if he could be, yeah, if he could be, more impactful in the same amount of snaps or even fewer snaps, the Eagles would take that. It's not about him playing 10 more snaps a game and being invisible against the past. Yeah, it's like a really good defensive player in basketball who doesn't shoot the three well and you're just waiting for him to develop shooting the three. And you find reasons why he doesn't shoot the three well.

And it's that maybe that's just not where his skill set is. Like right now Jordan Davis is skill set. And he said this yesterday. Past Russian's never been the forefront of his skill set. He hasn't been called upon to do it as as much. But there is, but he referenced or the question was framed him. Clinton Hertz said he really developing in this area, said that at the Super Bowl last year. And he said it's something he's really been working on.

The proof is going to be the pudding in the games. All right. Time to take a little bit of a break. After that, we're going to hear what Zach thinks about Jalen Carter, read Blankenship, Nolan Smith. I have a big Cooper Dijin question for you, Zach, all of that coming up after this break. When it comes to spending that hard-earned cash, well, sometimes it's out of sight, out of mind. That daily coffee habit, those streaming subscriptions, those bad boys add up fast without you even noticing.

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check out their whole deal at philly sports trips.com. Okay. So I'm excited about that. We're going to get to announce 10 tomorrow. Do a little random.org. And then on Friday's show, we're going to do a little spin the wheel figure out who our winner is.

I mean, hopefully it's a sick-up. I hope so. All right. Anything else on Jordan Davis before I move on to jailing? We'll discuss them throughout the summer. So I'm sure that we will. Jalen Carter. The big man.

Yes. Most important player on the defense. 81% of the snaps last year. Can he do that again? Yeah, he thinks so. He doesn't want to come off the field. He says he's having fun out there. Doesn't it look that way?

And Jordan Day or I'm sorry, Jill and Carter very much recognizes, and I've spoken to players about this last year, recognizes how good, how good he is. And the goal for him is to be the best player at his position. And that's something that this year, going into this year he he wants to hit that when he was asked which players are in your way he says he doesn't pay as much attention to that but he knows everyone talks about dexter lawrence and chris

jones um and so he's like if if someone says that about me congratulations to me is is what he said saquan barclays told him about he has talked him about dexter lawrence uh but he was he asked about this perception that he doesn't know what he's doing yet uh he was too he was asked more about the growth in his game right like there's There's a lot more that can develop in his game. It was kind of framed as like, you know, Vic said there's a lot more for you to. And yeah, he recognizes that as well. He talked about how much, I asked me if he views this as a contract year.

And he's like, he's not even thinking about that. You know how much fun winning the Super Bowl was? Like, did you see how much fun we had? Right. And so he says that's what's on his frame of mind. I'm just trying to think off the top of my head. You know, you mentioned Dexter Lawrence and Chris Jones. If you are Quinn and Williams, Jeffrey Simmons,

Namdi Madabuke maybe, Vita Veja, those guys are all, you know, a little bit older. All of them are, all the Pro Bowl defensive tackles from last year, aside from Jalen Carter, are 27 years old or more. So is it fair to say that if you were picking a defensive tackle, right now to start a franchise with it would be without question jelan carter absolutely based on what i've seen now there there there might be some bias because i watch him every week right as opposed to some players who i don't watch every week but yeah jama carter uh the arrow's only pointing up i mean i'm i'm i'm curious what the first number of his next of his average annual of his

annual salary will be on that next contract it has a three or four in front of it's going to be a for four right yeah yeah I don't know what do you think I think a high three is my guess but I don't know I mean cap keeps going up see how much the cap goes up right he he's gonna be their priority like he'll be they'll be they'll make sure they do it right away I mean if he's as good as we expect him to be this year he'll deserve it and you know you and I talked about it with you guys when I was briefly on the show yesterday Vic Fangio is unconcerned about his snaps. And I don't think that's...

Are you concerned about it? Like, listen. Like long term... Or be it for me to disagree with Vic Vanjo or anything they did last season to have the best defense in football. If I was Howie Roseman, I would be, you know,

I'd like to see that 81% be like 74%, 75%, something like just a little bit less. Yeah, so I'm not... I'm not dismissing the question from Jimmy Kempski. was a good question and a fair question. It was kind of framed comparing it to Sequin Barclay. And the reason,

I think it's two separate things. Running backs historically are viewed only have like a certain amount of hits against that. As a team, you are incentivized to run a running back into the ground. So I think that, and correct me if I'm wrong,

the argument. We're talking about signing this guy to a, you know, an eight year deal with 40 million dollars per year or something like that. like yeah but the argument for um rotation at on the defensive line historically has been to keep you fresh during the game it hasn't as much been about career longevity it's been more like uh you don't want a guy wearing down in the fourth quarter you don't want a guy wearing down you think

so yes yeah it's it's it's not the cumulative effect the following year of the snaps i could be wrong that's that's that's that's always been my interpretation of the rotation it's like you played 800 snaps last year, how are you going to respond this year? It's more like you're playing all these snaps. Are you going to be too tired in January? And I think that's why I never thought about it that way. I thought that's how that's why Vic answered like the 68th and 69 snap of the Rams game. You saw what he did there.

And because it was always framed to me that defense, the edge rusher rotation that they had and the defensive line rotation is that your guys are fresher in the fourth quarter of the game. When the old lines out there every snap. That's certainly part of it, but I think it's also in service of making sure that you have them all healthy for January. Yes, but I'm saying that it's not like they're worried what three years or five years or what it's going to be down the line. Whereas running backs, you feel like there's X amount of carries that somebody has. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I think it's interesting. Yeah. I think I would bet that Howie would like Jailen Carter to play a little bit less this season. Probably so. Yeah. Maybe he gets some. less numbers brings the contract value down.

Okay, well, I believe the exciting mics have entered the studio, and that's a good transition to ask about Reed Blankenship, who spoke yesterday. Yeah, great catching up with Reed. Good to see Reed. And I believe he was asked about Darius Slay without prompting calling out that Reed Blankenship is the new leader of the secondary. Yes, too. That's by me, that question. Oh, oh.

Hey, my man. I'm there doing the hard-hidden questions, right? Dary Slay said this on your podcast. What's your response? Yeah. You know, you love those questions, right? So, yeah, he was, he was real honored by that. He came, Slay was someone that he looked up to from a leadership perspective when he came

into the locker room. He was pretty clear about that. He said he wants to kind of carry on what Slay presented. So that was something he, heard Slay's comments and he very much views it like it's his responsibility now to take over the room. I don't think, uh, you know, I think Slay was was fairly intentional with those comments there. If you recall, it was perceived that, um, C.J. Garner Johnson kind of took on the slide at C. Yes.

This is before the C.J. trade. Exactly. He said also perceived by C.J. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, perceived by C.J. that way. But yeah, read has been here longer. continuously, of course, he came in the same year, CJ. But he said when Slay was there, he, Slay had open arms, took him under his wing. And that's true. We remember those practices. I mean, Slay was the one who was talking about the milk check and that kind of thing, right?

That's true. I mean, Slay, like you, identified Reed from an early, from an early time. Quite as early, but yeah. He said, I learned a lot from him. Him saying that is a huge honor. I try my best to teach these guys what I've been taught. And so what does that onus mean to him? Does he feel like he has to act differently as being this new leader in the

Yeah, I think he's the guy who's speaking up both in the secondary and in the meeting rooms. I think that's very much the case. Got it. And I think that you'll see Reed, in addition to being a terrific co-host on exciting mics, you'll see him more vocal publicly. I imagine too. Like, and again, I don't know what his long-term status is here,

but, and I, they only have so many captains. So I don't know if we'll quite get to see, but she was on the leadership council last year. This is a good, and guess who's going to be the captain? Well,

because this is what I was thinking. By the way, well, finish your thought first. And I'll ask. I mean, if you go, I'm curious,

too, do you go based on position group? Or do you go based on just like the leader himself? because if you're viewing it like no longer is Slay the captain, do you take another person from the secondary? My guess is Zach Bond becomes the captain. I would think so.

I think position group is about the leadership council. Yes, exactly. Leadership council will have at least one representative from every position group. The actual captain, I don't think it's a direct transfer. My question to you on captains is, and we probably have an answer here because of what happened last year, but if Devante Smith were a captain, would he be at OTAs? No, I don't think so.

Because he wasn't last year. Yeah. He's got his own deal. I think DeVonte, yeah. DeVante's showing on his own. And so then the question is, do you think that the reason that he was the guy who didn't get to keep his captain's last year is because he didn't go to OTAs? No, I don't think that's the case.

Okay. Yeah. Still a very awkward thing, I feel. I mean, Devante, I think he's... To have the C and have a stripped of you. It's very personal. It's good. Well, I'm curious if he took it personally.

I don't imagine. He's universally respected in that locker room. Of course. He's not a vocal guy in terms of, even like behind the scenes. I don't think he's, he's like especially vocal. But he's said he's more lead by example type. Yeah, it's a good question. It's hard to really get him honest about anything.

Like, for instance, he was, now, I got to give a little me a coppel to Devante here. episode one of the offseason training wasn't really enthused by that. Episode two, he brought the juice. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Maybe they watched the pH, Yagle show and took notes. What did I say?

What was my commentary? My commentary was, I want to get the authentic footage. I want to get the raw footage. I don't want your workout clips with voiceovers from national media talking about you. I want to hear what you're saying. So what did they do? They bring us into the room. And so, yeah, so he's, he's getting stretched out or taped up or whatever.

And they're talking about the tush push, him and someone else he's training with. And it's framed to him that, you know, the other guys, like, they shouldn't take this out of the game. And Devante, he gave this funny line, you would appreciate it. I'm going to butcher it, basically. But he's like, they, he's like, they tell him to set the edge. He's like, he doesn't need to set the edge. he doesn't do anything on the play. And or like to clip the guy coming around the edge,

he's like, no, he just kind of stands there. He doesn't do anything. He just watches the play. He says no one gets hurt on it. So yeah, he was very honest about that. But then, yeah, so it was, it was a better, it was better footage this time. Okay. Good to know.

All right. I have a question for you about Vic Fangio's comments. Yes. That Cooper de Jean might be dabbling at safety in the base defense this year. but I'm going to ask it to you after this break. And instead, I will tell you about our friends, our good friends at Empire Today. You know all about the flooring experts.

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Cooper dejean is playing safety in the base defense. Now we haven't seen him do this yet. Vic mentioned it as a possibility. We have only seen him on the outside so far. Except in seven on seven. He played safety on seven. Yes, he played safety in seven.

Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah. Okay. Really? No, you got me second guessing, but yeah, first rapper seven on seven. Really? Yes.

Okay. I didn't see that. I believe you. yeah i mean unless i did you think he was on the outside there yes there was a there was a play where there was motion going on and he motioned inside but he was he was the outside corner first rep a seven on seven uh we can ask him

um but this is the uh where we got let me see yesterday's notes seven on seven no he was on the outside jesus all right is i'm on the left hooper on the right and it was Sidney Brown with Reed to start, and then it was Makuba. First place, I mean.

Anyway, my question for you, Vic talked about it. It's a possibility. If I tell you right now that that is what he's going to do in the base defense, do you take that more as a knock against what they have at safety or confidence, and it's a really good thing

that they're willing to trust Kili Ringo on the outside there? yeah good question sorry i'm throwing off because i got that wrong i think i guess i was watching the middle of the field and screwed that up uh i think it would have more to do with the skill set of cooper in in that case now perhaps you can say confidence in in keely i think the way to frame it and i wrote this on all p hly com today is in that case you're looking who are your four best in that situation and i think it's conceivable that cooper the gene could be one of your four best

or I'm sorry, that Keeley Ringo is one of your four best more so than Drew McCuba or Sydney Brown. So I, and I also think too that you're probably thinking about run fits there and maybe you want to, you know, seal the perimeter, but you probably want Cooper or, you know, closer to the ball. And so theoretically, if he's at safety, he could do that. Yeah, it's interesting. And again, keeping in mind that this is we're talking, you know, five, six snaps a game. even less if you're not even counting the goal line. I could go either way.

You know, the downside is lower. If you don't really trust the corner, you would rather have Cooper there. And it is a little, you don't see a lot of like, you know, safety substitutions like that.

With a safety being trusted to be a really important safety valve in the nickel defense and then not being trusted in sure, uh, base defense. Whereas I think you could, sell it a little bit more as normal with a corner.

But I think there's a good reason to think that like that might be where he would be best in that situation. So I'm I'm curious how that plays out. I think if that is how it plays out, I think that is probably good news for Kili Ringo. Yeah, well said. And so I and I said this on the Anthony show this morning that we're probably making too much out of the base defense part of this. But I think the reason why it's a story is it speaks to Cooper's versatility. It speaks to Cooper's value on the team. Really, like, I think the prevailing sentiment that I have from this discussion is you're going to be on the outside, could he play safety, is they want Cooper on the field 100% of the snaps.

And so you're willing to disrupt the harmony of the defense or the harmony of the secondary, if you will, moving, you know, mixing and matching between formations to ensure that this is a player you have on the field all the time. it begs the question to me that well i think keelie wringo is a good player and i think keely ringo should be the starter on on the outside but i just wonder if they how much did you love development is the burden of leadership or repetition is yeah that felt i mean i feel like there might have been like a like a standing ovation from you when he said that oh yeah yesterday was a big day for like my you know the little nuggets of um motivation that i say yeah I mean, repetition is the burden of leadership. How about this?

On Nolan Smith's mirror in his house. Now, I don't know if he wrote it literally on the mirror, if he wrote it on a piece of paper and taped it on the mirror. Okay. He has B-U. Boston University, the Terriers. B-E-Y-O-U. That came from Brandon Graham.

That was Brandon Graham's messages him, and that's on his mirror. And I said, so it's literally on your mirror. There's two things. That and take off your seatbelt. I didn't get, I got to find out the meaning of it was a trunk-aid press conference i didn't get to ask about that i think it has like the way you play like yeah off your seatbelt play recklessly that's how i'm assuming it is i'll

follow up the next time i may not speak to no one about that but text and drive is that was always the robert sawa you know all gas no brakes it's like sometimes breaks are good right um but to answer so it must have been terrible against play action yeah so the cooper the gene part of it is i just think it's it speaks to like he is one of the most important players on on this defense he's going to be on the field every snap uh i think that's why this is such a relevant storyline i also think too the long the long term part of this is something we'll need to monitor okay what what was it about nolan smith other than uh be you that you wanted to talk about because he's the other player

you spoke with yeah no one smith's ready to take on a bigger role like he he he knows that's the case. Brenna Graham has, has told him that. I asked him about the next step in his game, and he said it's to be that pass rusher. And then he said, but,

you know, he has to be the ultimate player. Vic Fangio tells him to play the game the right way. And his interpretation of that is, and I'm quoting him here, because Anthony love this quote on the show this morning. I've got to crush the run in order to rush the passer.

When you play the game the right way, don't chase sacks. Be a football player, truly. So crush the run to rush the passer. That is how he plays. That's how Bryce off didn't play. That's Bryce off's not here anymore.

But yeah, no one. No one is. Finally tuning in knowing that he sees where he's not going to be discussed as a bust, he can finally just get some actual Eagles insight and you just throw him under the bus. So no one was was talking about, um, he said Vic Fangio, he's never even told Vic this. Vic doesn't realize how much of an influence he's had like on Nolan's career.

He said watching Ron Miller in Fangio's defense. made me want to be the person I am today. Relentless. Like who is that guy? What does he do during the all season? Why is he always at the ball? Coach Fangio watching him and how he molded those guys. It's nothing for me to listen to him.

Be coachable. Are you crazy? Now, the caveat here is Von Miller only played one full season in Vic Fangio's defense. I imagine the Vic Van Miller film he watched was from other defenses. Maybe Jack Del Rios or I'm trying to think. Who was Jack Del Rio, John Fox's D coordinator? when they went to the Super Bowl when they won the Super Bowl

and he was the MVP John Fox was the head coach I think it might be Del Rio I'm not sure I think it might have been Del Rio Rio so but point being that there have been a lot of really good

edge rogers who've played in this scheme before and you know I think a Cleo Mac being one of them right so so that's something that that really jumps out to me okay that Broncos team was

Wade Phillips we've okay All right. Better. Yeah. Much be, I'm a much more of a Wade Phillips guy than in Jack Del Rio. Yeah, me too.

Yeah. No doubt about it. Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips underrated head coach. Terrific defense coordinator. Also underrated defense coordinator. I mean, one of the,

no, I think he's properly. I think he's properly rated defense coordinator. I think he's still underrated. Okay. I think he's kind of viewed as like this like failed head coach. And I think that he's, yeah,

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In Dallas and in Buffalo. Okay. Uh,

I want to get Zach's, uh, notes on the depth chart stuff from yesterday. but first I do have to tell you one more time about the PHLY Liberty Open. That's coming up at Valleybrook Country Club. You can pay to golf with Fran or Jamie or handsome rich or just with your buddies by a foursome. We're talking Saturday, June 14th, 2 o'clock shotguns start at Valleybrook Country Club.

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I'm not going to spoil who the guest is for this is next week's episode of the exciting mics. I'm just going to say a beautiful bald man just walked in. Could be anybody. True. All right. Give me your notes on yesterday's show that you wanted to. We'll save it for another day.

Why? Because I don't know. We might have more to do on this show. I don't, we're, we're having a great. I'm through all my other stuff. I don't want to get contentious at all. No, I'm in a great mood. Okay.

So, this is rightfully so. Right. So the first 20 minutes of the show was, was all about how, how terrific you are watching practice and reading the tea leaves. I've just been listening to you. No, but I want to, it just, it struck me as interesting that, um, Zach Bond signs this big contract extension with the team. I literally point to the screen and the show screeched to a hall.

If you want to talk about that, we can talk about that. The reason that I was so thrown off by that and upset by that, there have been two times this off season where I have been actually agitated on the show, right? That time and at the owner's meetings. The reason is not because you're asking for credit, it's because you are actively not listening to the show. You are not being present on the show.

You are instead watching the chat. When you are on the show, I need you to be here on the show. Okay, okay. Yeah, but I just thought it was like, it was like for, you know, it's not about the pat on the back. God forbid someone else gets a pat on the back for a minute. I am happy to pat you on the back. I think you deserve lots of paths on the back.

Now, that one in particular, you did remember, you had changed your prediction. the day before, but that's okay. You deserve the pat on the back, and it was nothing to do with you getting credit. It was to do with you not paying attention to the show. I was just trying to listen to the customers. If we can't hold your attention and you're on the show,

how can we ask the audience to hold their attention? See, I view the audience as a part of our show. There are times when you can maybe sneak a peek, but that is the thing that actually truly gets under my skin. Gotcha. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. Okay.

What else? That was that the only, was that the only note? That was the only one. It was a really good show. I enjoyed it. I said you had all you had notes. No,

I had a note. That was a really good show. Okay. What else? What else from the show? I thought I was budgeting like in eight minutes here. Oh, no, no, no, no.

I was driving home listening to it. And I was like, yeah, we get you know how to read the tea leaves. I, well, yeah, they're playing. I'm playing a part here. That's the third reference to this.

Yes, yes. I think, I think you are, also guilty of not understanding like the wrestling parlance of what's a work, what's a shoot. I've never watched wrestling before. I actually know when I was... Turning the needle up of the bit of showmanship. Yeah, I stopped, I stopped watching

wrestling when I realized it wasn't real. But it is real. Wrestling? I mean, the outcomes are predetermined, but the athletic race, the storytelling, all of that is real. It's performance art. When they, when the ultimate war... It's like saying, I, I stopped watching the theater when I knew that they were practicing the lines. When we know, you know, you don't like, you don't like theater. When the ultimate warrior throws Hulk Hogan to the ground. Yeah.

He's taking the fall. No, they're doing it gracefully, right? You try falling onto that, Matt, and, in, in, and, Vinny, please weigh in. They're not, it's not like they're jumping on pillows. It's like the, yeah, like a guy's jumping into thumbtacks. That's not, I don't like free to. I don't like predetermined outcomes. Okay, so you, that's why you don't watch TV shows or movies?

For my sporting events. Okay. Yeah, for my sporting events. But that's what that's, you don't think of it as a sporting event. Think of it as sure. Okay. Okay. But it feels like reality show.

Like, okay. What's the Bravo? The real housewives of all the different cities and counties. And counties, yeah. Yes. The real housewives. Yes. Do you watch that?

No, I don't. No. Emily watches it. Okay. So I don't watch it, but I've had it on in the background when I've read sometimes. Rachel's not, he's not above a like a bachelor, bachelorette. Oh, okay. Fortunately, never got into the real housewives.

Gotcha. I know Marissa, he's getting a lot of love on the show. She was big fan. Yeah, she didn't get in the book. Fair enough. That is so funny, though, to frame it as it really aided me that I didn't thank Marissa. So I took it upon myself to thank Julia. No, no, the way I would frame it is that the producer is as much a part of this.

When I thought of the written coverage separately from the show at Birds of Friends, I did not do that here. I think we are. It's all part of our coverage. It's all part of our coverage. Yeah, there you go. Okay, so let me ask you this question. Yes.

We've got a couple minutes left. what roster battle, whether it's for a starting job or anything else, has you've changed your allocation on Turkey's the most based on what we've seen in two OTAs. Right guard. Right guard. Because there's no rotation right now. Right. So I would actually give.

To be clear, there was not a rotation last spring either. It was just steaming what we saw. Well, Beckton wasn't playing right guard at that point. He didn't get in the right guard until mandatory minicamp was I think. Now, maybe there was a day when we weren't there, but they didn't experiment with Beckton that guard. He was a left guard in the spring when we saw him. Yeah, but they didn't move him the guard until like a few practices in, right?

And so it was when they were missing some, some players. So that's so I think that now, again, we'll see what happens this spring. But, oh, I'm sorry, this summer. But as you correctly pointed out, with Kenyon Green being on the left side. In order for Kenyon Green to be the starting right guard, he would need to play right guard. And so, again, there's a lot of time left, right?

There's six weeks of training camp, really three weeks of training camp to determine a starter, is my guess. Three, four weeks of training. You know, I think by the end of those guys to get there. Yeah, by the end of the third week, after the third week, you're going in your second preseason game.

So their joint practices are going into, So at the end of the joint practices with with Cleveland, my guess is they're going to want to have a starter determined. That sounds right. Yeah. So if we see a rotation. So two weeks ago, you would have said. I thought Kenyon was going to be the guy there. Okay.

And the fact that Kenyon hasn't mixed in there speaks out to me. Okay. Yeah. I think I would have, I would have given them both like slightly under 50 turkeys two weeks ago, but I probably would have had a couple more on Kenyon Green. And I think it's right that even though a year ago, it's not how this worked out, I'm putting a few more turkeys on Tyler Steen right now than I would have two weeks ago. And I think it's notable that Drew McCuba is getting as much first team,

as many first team snaps as he is because I feel like this has played out as we would have expected. But I think for a rookie to be taking that volume of snaps now. Yeah. Now, of course, was a different situation last year. But Quignon wasn't with the first team on the outside until the middle of the summer. for him to be taking this volume now, presumably unless he's, his development stalls, he'll see, he'll see more and more. I think you could make a case that actually the thing that has changed the most is having

tangible expectations for when Jihad Campbell is going to be on the practice field, jihad. And so maybe the biggest turkey mover is that there's a much greater chance of Jeremiah Trudeau Jr. being the week one starter than I would have thought two weeks ago. Interesting. Yeah, I was thinking that I wrote that today, that there's that opportunity. I still think if jihad's ready to play,

it'll be the starter. I think, I think probably, but yeah, I mean, it could also be a maybe that maybe it's a bit of a, not full time. Yeah.

It's a bit of a rotation thing. But, I mean, there's no doubt that the individualized attention he's getting from Vic Fangio is in service of preparing him for week one. Sure. Right. That's what they're trying to teach him.

But we're talking about the base defense. You're going to need to try it on the field at that point, too. if they play base week one. Not necessarily. Unless you have extra defense alignment. That's what they usually do. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. They've three defensive tackles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I think that'll about do it for this episode of the PHMY Eagles podcast. Thank you to Andrew for stepping in to produce this bad boy remotely.

Thank you to Julia for setting us up for success. Thank you to Marissa for paving the way. And that'll do it. We'll be back tomorrow, 2 o'clock and Friday as well. Zach Berman, King of the Beats. I didn't realize until now that we've got a real black and white thing going on. Yeah. Yeah, looks good.

Yeah, good and evil. You should coordinate this more often. Yeah, I like that. Anyway, good show, good discussion. We will be back tomorrow. And as always, we love you.