PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Philadelphia Eagles Super Bowl film review: How did Josh Sweat and the D-line dominate?

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

Josh Sweat, Nolan Smith, Jalen Carter, Jalyx Hunt, Milton Williams and Brandon Graham will go down as the defensive line that produced one of the most dominant performances in NFL history. How did they do it? And what was especially impressive about Jalen Hurts’ performance on the biggest stage?Fran Duffy fills us in as he takes Zach Berman and Bo Wulf through everything he saw on tape from the Eagles’ explosive 44-20 Super Bowl LIX victory. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the P.HLY Eagles podcast presented by Bet365 and Ace Hardware Home Services. Go to www.com. Use code P.HLY365 when you sign up, whatever the moment. It's Never Ordinary at Bet365 and visit Ace Hardware Homerservices.com to get started on your next project. The Eagles have won the Super Bowl. We're still going to talk about it. Well, Will Fran Duffy, Zach Berman in a nice five o'clock. Shout out how's everybody doing?

Doing great. Excited for the show. looking forward to hearing fran's perspective we're home we did you have a delay today too as well fran we did a two-hour delay this morning uh and i had a dentist appointment scheduled this morning that also got put on a two-hour delay i was supposed to go 730 and then that got pushed so uh we've been we've been dancing around stuff this morning but we but everybody's good what's up i had a dentist appointment yesterday what's up with the zach you got one coming up no i i i went already so Flex. Like in your life? When's the last time you went? I went a month ago. So I have up until

September, August, September. All right. Good stuff. Am I supposed to provide more commentary on that? I don't know. You could. The insurance allows every if you speak to people who provide dental insurance, they will tell you every six months. So once you go with you, you, you can't can't go again for a six-month period for it to be covered. So I have to wait until after July to go again. Unless it's the conversation you're having in elevators at the combine. That was the owner's meetings, but yeah. Owners meetings, yeah.

Yeah, I'm happy to talk to the insurance with anyone wherever, wherever, wherever. Doesn't feel like it. All right, let's keep rolling here. Eagles won the Super Bowl. The Eagles won the Super Bowl. Eagles won the Super Bowl, and we're going to talk about it. Now, Fran, you wrote about it on all-P-H-L-Y.com yesterday, some of your six big takeaways from this game.

Would you like to start this conversation on the defensive side of the ball or the offensive side of the ball? I think we have to start with the defense, right? I mean, not arguably, like the best defensive performance from an Eagles defense in a Super Bowl, and one of the best defensive performances we've seen from any team, in the Super Bowl, especially when you take into account the opponent with Patch from Holmes and Andy Reed. Yeah. And also like the first nine possessions, like that's nine possessions worth

is like a game's worth. They were unbelievable. I think it's arguably the best defensive performance in the history of the Super Bowl. What was the most impressive thing to you about it, Fran? I mean, Xavier Worthy might have something to say about the you saying the best defensive performance ever. No, look, what stood out, what stood out to me was while we saw some different wrinkles at times, especially early on, you know, there were like two snaps of a three-man rush and drop-eight coverage. You know, first third down, they came out in dime defense and they played man with cover one robber. It's not really one of the higher volume coverages from the Eagles. You know, when you look at Vic Fangio this year, outside of that, like, they just played the hits.

You know, there was a heavy zone defense. played a ton of two high safety shell. They didn't blitz. It was all. They ran, they blitzed bond like two or three times, but they always, that always happened with a, uh, the defensive ends dropping out. And so, uh, you never had more than a four man rush. They dialed up some knobs more than a typical game, but it was kind of, you know, look,

I was reflecting, I was thinking about it earlier this week. And I said, you know, thinking back to our shows throughout the fall, they're getting ready to play Matthew Stafford. They're getting ready to play Jaden Daniels for the first time. They're getting ready to play Lomar Jackson, right? And you say, all right, like, what are the cool wrinkles that Vic Fangio could do? Could they play more dime? Could they do this?

Could they do that? And it's like, no, they just, they play cover four. They play cover six. They play cover three. And they're going to play it better than anybody. They're going to play it better than you can break it down. And that's honestly what they did in this game. I mean, they played a ton of quarters coverage.

They mixed. When they got the third down, they played a lot of cover six. So it was a lot of two high safeties. And we're going to match you in coverage better than you're able to separate. You know, that that pick six from Cooper to Jean. It's just that's why it was the first thing I had to put. the article to lead it off because to me like that not just like in this game but it perfectly encapsulated the way that this defense has acted all season long in terms of like their

awareness and zone coverage you know what they were able to do just take the error out you had no one just running free just an outstanding job you know from from cooper to gene on that play and some of the other guys in coverage as well and then in the pursuit on the back end of the play as well with you know mora ojima and you know jaylick's hunt and the effort they did in getting Cooper into the end zone. But for me, this was a, we are better than you at executing our jobs and we're going to let our front four go and get after you. And that's what that game plan was in this game.

So before you get to the defensive line itself, this is kind of an impossible question to answer, Fran, but from a, you know, running basic coverages standpoint and knowing that it will succeed, how much do you put to talent like this team is just that talented versus coaching, like making sure that these guys understand all the different intricacies of their assignments. And that's not just Vic Vanjo. That's, you know, the position coaches as well. It's definitely a blend of both, you know, because I think when you look at, you know, it takes a certain level of athleticism and speed to be able to keep up with, you know, Xavier Worthy down the field. There was one play, you know, I want to say it was the second or third drive for Kansas City. Yeah, I mean, they ran Xavier Worthy on like, I call it a takeoff route or, you know,

was a jet motion just before the snap. And he immediately, without breaking stride, took off down the left side line. And Quinnion Mitchell initially was lined up over Travis Kelsey. He sees Worthy come in motion. And then you get Quinnion Mitchell immediately, like, gets on his horse. And you can tell him, the Holmes wanted to go there. He wanted to cut that loose down the field. So badly.

Yeah. Like that was going to be the play. But Mitchell was in Xavier Worthy's hip pocket. And Xavier Worthy, again, the same corner or the same receiver that broke the combine record in the 40-yard dash. You know, Quinnion Mitchell is. right in his hip pocket takes the throw away then the tight end kelsey he had two guys over him so he had to get down to his third to his check down there in juju smith schuster and he it ends up going for like a three-yard game right and so to me like again that's a you you you require the the talent from uh quignon

mitchell to keep up you know down the field but also like the headiness to like see the motion coming no like all right i got to get off my assignment uh now then now this is my new assignment and everybody else of also picking that up because you know read blanket ship wasn't on Travis Kelsey to start, right? Zach Bond wasn't on Kelsey to start. But those guys were able to quickly make that adjustment. And they were all over those guys. It was white on rice constantly throughout this football game.

And so I think when you're looking at the way that this defense operates, and that's, when I say like they play the same basic coverage, it's not like that Todd Bowles quote with Nomdi back in 2011, 2012, where it's like it's high school cover three. You know, they play it with the small intents. intricacies, right, of being able to match up differently than others, right? And you get a little bit deep into the weeds, like deeper than I can go. But, you know, just watching those guys pass off those routes, the Dijin play again,

that's four receivers flooded to that side. Zone coverages aren't supposed to be able to. That's why teams do that. That's why teams flood the zone that way, because you're not supposed to be able to have those bodies to be able to counteract that. You know, I mentioned in my breakdown, like, Cooper Degines should be either taken on the flat there or he should be getting out underneath the comeback route outside the numbers,

he shouldn't be defending the overrout coming from the opposite side of the field. But because of the way they deploy their players, the way they coach those guys up, Kabrigeen had the freedom to be able to do it. So yes, it's a mix of talent and coaching. I know it's it doesn't have to be either or. As Nick Siriani's often said, it can be both and, right? But when you look at the success of the past rush in particular,

do you think it was the byproduct of the coverage? or do you think it was it was just winning at the line of scrimmage? It depends on the play. And there was plenty of both. And because I think, you know, look, the Zach Bonn interception, that primarily happens. Number one, I mean, it's a great diving interception from Bonn. But that happens because of the rush, because of Josh Sweat's ability to collapse the pocket with that bull rush. But then there are others where it's like, yeah, like that first third down where, you know, they're running a wheel route to the right side.

And this was a play that went into the piece. but they're running a wheel route to that side. Isaiah Rogers did an outstanding job of playing over the pick play, the pick element of that play takes the throw away. That gives time for the rush to be able to get home. Mahomes tries to break the pocket to his left. Milton Williams retraces and mirrors it doesn't let him outside. So he pirouettes and goes reverse back in the back field and Jalen Carter's there.

That's the rush and coverage, both complimenting each other perfectly. So I think when you look at this, I mean, there are so many examples in this game of rush helping coverage, coverage helping rush and everybody just did doing their job to get off the field yeah i mean i think we should we can elongate the conversation about the defensive line because like i can't remember just seeing a defensive line dominate a game like this and i talked about it before like to me the the best example of just how mismatched this game was talent wise was the the series of the the kubridogen pick six where it goes sack sack uh pick six but it's the first time in the game that the Eagles defense have rotated in Jalix Hunt and Morrow Ajama and they're flipping Josh

sweat to the other side. It's like, okay, this is our backup unit. And we're still going to just dominate you. And you've got the guy on the chief's offense. Like if you're, if you're stack ranking the best players on the chiefs, Joe Tuny is pretty high up there, right? He's, getting offensive player of the year votes from Tom Brady. He's at left tackle. And he's going up against the third edge rush for the Eagles, the rookie third round pick from Houston Baptist, Alex Hunt, who just runs right through him. And it's like, that is the talent disparity. You've got, you've got one of their best players against, like, I don't know, the 15th best

player on the Eagles defense. And it's still a total mismatch. The best rush of Hunt's career so far, an outstanding job of setting up speed to power. And it was very clear watching it. And you saw it through the game, but I was just going back and watching on film. It was just bull rush after bull rush after bulrush where it was like, yeah, like, they're going to go, like, what's the, what's the direct? most direct line to the quarterback, like shortest area from A to B is a straight line.

And those guys just said, we are going to go to where we think Patrick Mahomes is going to be in the pocket. And those guys just barreled through the chest of Joanne Taylor and of Joe Tooney time and time again. And it was all of them. They all took turns. And it was like they ran so many stunts, especially like the final three quarters. Once he got into like the second quarter, you started to see a lot of TE stunts and ET stunts. And the defensive tackles as they're looping around, those guys are teeing off and just going bullrush. and you know and pushing the pocket back and so uh that was clearly a coaching point um you know going in

was all right we're going to lean into this but another aspect too that i was thinking of with the with Jalix hunt play uh bow and i honestly like i wanted to talk about it here i didn't even put it in the piece but you know we talk about how uh you know look they did not rotate to the level that we've seen eagles defensive lines in the past right so you can talk about like getting those young guys reps uh you know is that going to hurt their development or you know how is that going hurt other guys, you know, in terms of just how often that they're out there on the field. I think that the player development aspect of this is so important when it comes to the way that the Eagles have handled these young players.

Now, Cooper Dijin, Quina Mitchell, those guys played, you know, every snap down the straight, you know, most of the season, right? But when you look at Nolan Smith barely played last year as a rookie. Nacobi Dean barely played in his rookie year a couple years ago. Jalen Carter was a backup despite his talent last year. Cam Juergens didn't play his rookie year. You look on both sides of the ball. All of these guys, like they took their time to get in.

And to me, like when you look at what the Eagles do behind the scenes, you're trying to find as many ways to kind of just get the edge, those little minimal, you know, those little minute examples where, you know what? Like, Jaylick son's not going to play a lot, but it's not just, we're not just throwing it away. It's not just a red shirt year. It's not just going to be what he does, you know, like on his own. We are going to put him through a developmental plan.

And we're going to get him those opportunities where like, all right, like, hey, you got three pass rushes. It's week three. You've got three rushes this week. How'd you do on those? What can we do to tweak it? How can we improve? Right?

And so, you know, just trying to take those. And that's that group that's led by Connor Barwin. And there's a handful of those guys on the personnel side that handle the player development aspect of things. And there's so many examples on this roster. I went through a bunch of the young guys. But Jordan Milato is a graduate of that plan. Right. And just, you know, when you look at what they do to find those edges, I think it's also a huge reason why you see that talent

disparity show up in those games. Well, I recall hearing a podcast. Along those lines, if you let me go, Zach, from Rob, who says Nick and his staff developed talent so well this year, rank the top five guys that had the best growth this season. So I will let you go, Zach. The most growth this season. Well, I mean, I would have to go, you know, because it's hard to look at, so we're

judging from the starting point to the end point because obviously Quignan-Mitchell Cooper the Gene are up there, but Coyant started at a really high level. Cooper the Gene is someone who didn't come in until like week four of training camp, you know, the second preseason game against the Patriots was his first practice, enters the lineup week three of the season or enters the lineup week five of the season and has been outstanding. But I think, you know, J. Alex Hunt, the way he has developed jumps out to me in an enormous like he's taking significant snaps in the Super Bowl.

This is someone who, even if he was a polished player from Houston Baptist, you would imagine Houston Baptist to the NFL, there would be more of a transition. Considering the fact that he was a converted safety who doesn't have a lot of experience there, he was drafted for his long term upside. That development is probably number one for me. you look at the corners. I'm trying to think here. I think if you're looking at like player development too, Ojima and Thomas Booker are good examples of that. Yeah.

Because those are guys who were on the practice squad last year. Okay. And they take this, well, I'm sorry, not Ojima. Booker was on the practice squad last year. Ojima was down the rotation last year. Ojima. Ojima was down the rotation last year. And, you know, works his way up.

So those are some examples there. I think the combined Nolan Smith, Jelix Hunt, ascensions this year is a real feather in the cap of Jeremiah Washburn. I mean, those guys both really improved over the course of the season. I'll give you one more. Mackay Beckton. Mackay Beckton. I have written down, too.

Second on the list. It's a huge example there because he had never played guard before. And he started in training camp. And, I mean, this has changed the trajectory of his career. And I think, I think Zach Bonn has to be on that list, right? Like, you know, he's never played the position before. That's not taking anything away from him. But, like, to get him ready to be a star middle linebacker after not having done it before,

like obviously the coaching gets a lot of credit for that. Yeah, there's a few things I, oh, yeah. You're not going to, Zach. So Jake Rosenberg, a former yield's executive, he was on a podcast. I apologize. I'm not citing which one it was. this was back earlier this season. And he was kind of talking about like part of, you know,

the Eagles secret sauce, if you will. And you would think it would have to do with maybe cat management. But like one of the things he spoke about was player development and how much the Eagles focus on player development. And I think he even kind of compared it to almost like a baseball approach. If memory serves with the show that that's something that, the great major league baseball teams are huge in the player development. You get guys 18, sometimes like 16 years old, and you spend three, four,

five years developing them in the minor leagues and the best teams invest a lot of money and resources in that. And the Eagles behind the scenes do so much. And it's something I've, you know, that I know Connor Barwin has really spearheaded, like you mentioned. And that's, that's been a huge advantage for the Eagles, the way they've developed. players. Yeah, and you mentioned in the piece that you did towards the end of the regular season

where you had players kind of like highlight people on the personnel side or people on the support side that, you know, that they would, you know, give a lot of success of credit to, let those people get their flowers. You know, you mentioned Connor Barwin, Patrick McDowell, you know, Terrence. There are a bunch of guys, you know, in that group, you know, on the development side that certainly deserve a lot of credit. The position coaches deserve a lot of credit. you get into like the strength and conditioning staff they deserve a lot of credit and again it's not a

thing of like um hey we're going to bring you in and you you have to get better at this this this this this this this and this you're going to do all of it right now it's more like a hey like uh you know jlin carter you know you played at georgia where you know maybe it was a little bit more reading off the ball all we're going to do is we're just going to work on your get off it's ball snapped go get up field like you know your vertical you know your ability to get vertical you know at the snap let's just we're going to focus on that for the next three months and that's it just finding those little areas where uh you know again it's Jordan myelotta and you know in your stance right like all of these little things at all these spots um and if one coach one uh you know a player

development uh person can get can get through to to one player in that way you can get one percent better that's like those those margins mean a lot once you get to these moments late in the season and it's also a particular obsession of nixiriani's uh when he talks about teaching and fundamentals, a lot of it has to do with player development. We also thank Tyler for the Super Chat donation as well. Let's take a quick break and then continue talking about the best defensive performance in Super Bowl history. Well, it might be cold in Philadelphia,

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this is the last day of that winner-lose offer. So make sure you check that out. You must be 21 or older, physically located in PA. If you were someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800 gambler. Fran, let me ask you about the Chief's plan of attack from a blocking standpoint in this game. Because the thing I said after the game was it felt like there are two big plans where we're not going to let Sequin Barkley beat us and we're not going to let Jalen Carter beat us. And the Eagle said, okay, we'll let the other 20 guys on the field, you know, dominate all their matchups. How much attention did Jailen Carter get?

Because, you know, the box score has no tackles. He has two quarterback hits still. But was it that simple? Were they just saying we are not going to let Jailen Carter wreck this game? Yeah, they certainly doubled him a lot. I would say, you know, we've had conversations, especially going back like the first half of the year where it's like, oh, like he's not getting doubled as often as you think.

This was a game where he got doubled a ton. So this was one of the, all right, we're always going to slide Creed Humphrey, that way. We'll give Trey Smith help. We are not going to let Jalen Carter wreck this game. But as the first couple drives unfolded and they saw the rest of these guys also, you know, doing their work, then you started to say,

all right, we're going to leave the tight end and the running back in to help the tackles out. We're going to give chips in. So they definitely had to evolve from a protection standpoint as the game unfolded. It didn't take long for them to make those adjustments. I mean, but look, the first sack for Josh Sweat, I mean, he was one-on-one with Travis Kelsey. And Kelsey was like a second and a half late off the ball and sweat just blew by him and basically got home free. There was another one where the running back goes to Chip Sweat. The tackle knows he's got chip help.

So he lets sweat get to get to his outside. the running back chips sweat and sweat dips inside. He gets bumped like a gap over and now he's got a free run at the quarterback and gets home. So the two of sweats, two and a half sacks essentially happened because the running back in tight end like didn't do their job well enough in protection. And so and that, but to me, like that's why a lot of tackles, you know, I've had conversations with these guys in the past where it's like some of them, they like having that help. Like, hey, it's good to have the tight end there. It's good to have the running back there. But others are like, like, I don't want the running back to help because that's just going to mess me up from like my, from.

my pass that standpoint. That sack from Swethead, that second complete sack for him is a great example of it, just because the tackle let the running back, you know, kind of help out there, but bumped them too far inside and Sweat was able to get home for the sack. What do you got, Zach? No, I was listening to what Fran was saying. You're making all kinds of faces. It feels like you got something to say.

I like what Fran's saying here. Okay. I don't know. Yes, Sam. Have you, have you changed your? overall position on Josh Sweat. Is this a question for me? Yeah.

What was not really? My overall position has always been he's a good player. Even that even like conversations last week you were like like yeah, he hasn't done anything in the past month two months. Well, that's true. Okay. I don't understand the question. I mean, listen, entering the season, we, we had a, and who do I have? higher expectations for Bryce Huff or Josh Sweat, and I was on the Bryce Huff train.

I was obviously very wrong about that. But I haven't really changed my perception of Josh Sweat, but I don't know. If an executive you know in the league gives you a call and says, I'm thinking of spending $18 million a year on Josh Sweat. What would you tell him? I would say you're going to get a good player if the knee checks out, but he's probably not going to end up being worth $18 million. Okay.

I mean, he did have in the last one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine games. He had two games with a sack. And how many? Nine. In the last nine games, there were two games in which he had a sack. Yeah, no, but how many total sacks in those nine? So three and a half sacks. Three and a half sacks.

Okay. Yeah, it could have been better. There was a sack taken off the board by penalty. but yeah, I hear your point. I don't understand this. Like, yeah, he played awesome. Yeah, well, we're talking about, Josh. I don't take anything like your performance.

I mean, one of the sacks, as Fran tells us, came against Travis Kelsey coming off, laid off the ball. That's not like, you know, he was great. He's a huge reason. I don't think it's unreasonable to talk about. He's a huge of those Super Bowl champions. I like. We devoted, we devoted three shows to relitigating Tanner McGee.

We can spend three minutes relitating Josh Swet. Yeah, but it hasn't really changed my opinion of him. Okay, all right, fair enough. Fran, what do you think? I just want to let you guys handle this. This is great. I'm enjoying the back and forth. No, I think, look, I said it on one of the shows, one of the shows last week,

that sweat has been underwhelming down the stretch. I do think going back and watching, I'm not saying that all of the production was fraudulent against the Chiefs, but I just mentioned, like the one of the sacks came against Kelsey where he just blew by him. he was very late off the ball. And the other one was because the running back bumped him inside and he gave him a free run. Now, he created the interception for Bond. Like, I'm not saying that it was a bad game, right off the production.

But I would be, if someone called me and said, hey, we want to give sweat $18 million a year, I would, I would be a little cautious. I would say that there might be other, like that could come up, that could come back to blow up in your face, you know, just because, especially because of the injury. And it's now been two years where in the second half of the year, the production and the disruption and not just from like a sack production standpoint, but from like a pressure percentage standpoint, like all the efficiency metrics,

like that has gone down in the second half of the last two seasons. And so I think that that is a little, that can be a little bit of a cause of concern for sure. I will tell you the thing that that I have changed my opinion on relative to Josh Sweatzac, is that is that and you wrote about it today, you know, why you voted for Jalen Hertz for MVP of the game. After the game, I was a little bit on the fence. I was like, you know what?

maybe it would have made sense to vote for Josh Wett just as like representative of the entire defensive lines performance like he could be the totem for that but when we get to the offense I mean it is the further I've gotten away from it like and I'm sure that frame will go into this like Jalen Hertz absolutely deserved to be the MVP of this game he was he was fantastic and so that's that's the thing that my opinion has changed on yeah yeah I mean I'll I'll discuss that when we get the hurts but I think the The argument for Sweat for MVP is if someone feels that someone from the defense should have won MVP because they won the game because of the defense. I don't necessarily think you need a defensive representative for MVP.

So I didn't buy into that argument. I just look, I mean, the Josh Sweat is someone who I feel like he's been chasing this perception of him. Right. Usually it's like you're, well, they always say that your reputation. precedes him. But I, I feel as if sometimes in Josh West's case, there's this, this knock on him about the knee injury when he hasn't really been affected by his, I mean, you look at games played, look at snaps played. He, there's, there's been no issue with the knee injury, really, you know, for the past X, X years of his career. I think he's been, he's been more consistent against the run

then he gets he gets much credit for i mean he's he's really been like a a true three down player if you think about the knock on bryce huff a year ago it's it's well this guy's you know a designated pass rusher can you play all downs like if you're a team that's signing josh sweat josh sweat can play three downs for you um he's he's he's a guy who's made big plays and big moments um look i mean 18 million is is a lot i think by definition in free agency your spending, you know, I always think back to the Andrew Friedman line. If you're rational about every free agent, you finish second in every free agent. But I don't think Josh Sweat would be as like I think Josh Sweat will be a better signing than what Bryce Huff was last year.

I put it that way. Well, yeah. So would you? No, no. I'm saying going into the market. Like not, I mean, Bryce Huff's age profile was, always better. But I think Josh Swet's on field. production is superior to what Bryce Hobs was going into free agency.

No doubt about it. No doubt about it. He also, like, I was impressed with his ability to flip sides in this game because we didn't see that a ton over the course of this season. I thought that was impressive. I guess, Fran, my next question for you is just watching the defensive film. What did you see that you didn't appreciate in real time? I mean, the big thing is watching on TV, you don't always get a sense of like, all right,

what did the coverage look like downfield? What was exactly happening that was forcing Patrick Mahomes to hold on to the ball, right? And so those are the ones where I'm excited to go back through and see. And, you know, you've got to see that play with Quignan Mitchell that we talked about, right? I didn't get a great look at what Cooper DeGine did or didn't do on his pick six until going back through the film. So those are always great. I think the other thing that's worth talking about, Beau, you mentioned like the protection plan for the chiefs. I was kind of surprised with what their plan of attack was in the passing game, you know, just coming in.

I mean, look, they had that RPO for a first down on the very first play of the game. It was a well-executed RPO, like a no-look pass from Patrick Mahomes. That goes for a first down. And yeah, that was their only first down of the first half. They didn't get another first down until the third quarter, which is still like crazy to think about. It's insane. When I'm watching, I'm like, it's a lot of vertical downfield pass concepts. And there are two things there.

One, the Eagles have not given up vertical downfield plays all season. And two, that's not the way the chiefs have lived all season. And so to me, like, I'm watching this game plan unfold for Kansas City. I'm like, I don't know if they wanted to come in and prove a point. I don't know if there was like the hubris there, the confidence there, or if it was more, I don't know. I don't know if they were like, oh, we're going to try slay or we're going to try Quignon. We're going to try to attack them down the field. But I looked at the way that the chiefs had won, you know, in the passing.

game this year. And I'm like, all right, like they should be able to string drives together. And that was not, that was not really their game plan. Now, they came out early and there were, there were some great open field tackling. Like that Cooper DeGine, I downloaded the clip immediately from Cooper DeGine making that one-on-one stop in the flat. And it was like, yeah, like, all right, like this is exactly what this defense is meant to do. Force the check down, come up, rally, tackle. They've done it all season long. Second play of the game, right? Yeah, second play. And, you know, so maybe it's like, all right, we've got to do a little bit more there.

you and I were right in terms of that run game. Like they didn't even try to run the ball. That was non-existent, which that's, that to me, like, that's acceptable. I didn't go in. I expected the chiefs we're not going to try and run the ball. The Eagles basically dared them to do it by playing as much too high. And the chiefs were like, no, thank you. We're not, we're not even going to try to do it.

But I was surprised by how vertical the past concepts were for the chiefs. Now, they came out in the second half and they said, all right, we're going to try and run the ball a little bit, try and get the ball out fast. the drive stalls out. But by the time they get the ball back and that second possession of the third quarter, now they're down like I think it was that they're down by four scores at that point. And the Eagles had just had like an eight minute drive. And at that point, like, yeah, like they had to go vertical.

They had to score fast. And so they basically like they didn't have any choice when they got to the second half without a play. But I would say their approach in the first half who was definitely surprising. And when you pair that with like Mahomes not being as sharp as normal and the defense playing as well as they did, it results in a blowout. just an unbelievable performance. I was thinking about the running backs,

and so I'm trying to look it up right now. They allowed one 100-yard rusher all season long, and it was Rico Dattle in week 17. Like, Josh Jacobs in week one had a good game. Bejohn Robinson had a good game in week two. But like... Abidjan, yep. It's great.

I guess Kyron Williams in the playoffs had a 100-yard rushing game. I guess I was thinking about just how good this defense is historically. And so I was thinking, you know, maybe it's unfair to go post-by, but that's, you know, that's when everything started to coalesce. You get a full 17 game season if you, you know, include all four games of the playoffs. So the 17 teams they played, how did they do against the Eagles relative to how they did against all of their other opponents? Okay. three of them had an above average game for themselves by EPA per play. And two of those three were negative EPA per play games.

It was like terrible offenses. The Cleveland Browns and the. So the first game out, the first game in that sequence. Right. And the Carolina Panthers. And then the Rams in L.A. when I lost by 17 points. Those were my guess. It would have been Carolina. I would not have guessed Cleveland.

I would have guessed Carolina and the Rams. Yeah, I mean, Cleveland was like one of the best defensive games of the season for the Eagles. And it was just that's how bad the Brown's offense was. But every other team, like they had a below average game for themselves against the Eagles at every level. It's just when you think about this defense, you know, a couple of years from now, friend, what will you think of? Just how sound this group was. You know, this was not, you know, and I think back to the 2022 defense last time the Eagles went to the Super Bowl, you think of, oh, man, like it was just

obviously the record number of sacks, right? And this group, while still productive, getting after the quarterback, I will more think of just how linked up that back seven was with passing routes off and taking the air out of coverage, guys not running wide open. You know, there's only really one game this year where you saw that happen. And that was the game before the buy. You know, they get down in Tampa.

That was the only game where you're like, man, like, these guys just don't. It just, that feels like it was. three years ago. But you just didn't feel like the defense had a feel. And then they come back and everything just looks so sound. And so I will think of just how this defense and the back seven looked through the majority of this season. That to me is the identity of this group.

How about you, Zach? I would look at Vic Fangio and the work that he's done. And perhaps it's unfair to Sean Desai because like the personnel is is better this year. but, you know, Nick Siriani had a quote Monday morning where he said Vic Fangio has, like, established himself as, as like the best defense coordinator ever. Now, that might be a stretch, you know, because Steve Bagnolo is up there. I mean, Bud Carson and there are so many great defense coordinator was Bill Belichick when he was with the Giants. But it is true when you look at Fangio's track record in the NFL and the success that he's had. He finally gets a Super Bowl on his resume.

But I've made the reference a few times on the show throughout the year that this was before Zach Bonn was a defense player of the year candidate, that Vic Fangio is the star of the defense. Like Vic Fangio is the MVP. And look, Jalen Carter is outstanding. And Zach Bond had a historic year. And you go, like the personnel is really strong, without a doubt. But what Vic Fangio has done to this group, when this got brought up to Jeffrey Lurie after the game, Jeffrey's like this is why we wanted him last year, right? The Eagles have made no bones about it.

So what jumps out to me is just the benefit of having an elite defense coordinator. A couple super chats to run through guys. CDP checking in. He says, why hasn't Mike McDaniel received the Joe Shane treatment? His flaccid culture chased Vic Fangio out of South Beach. He is a symbol of mediocrity. Yeah, so look, it is. it is an indictment on the Dolphins defense that for whatever reason, whether he coached too hard or whatnot, that that group did not mix.

Now, I also heard from people who were around that Miami team a year ago who kind of had the sentiment that Vic Fangio didn't want to be there. That like there was that bitterness on his part. Like I want to be in, you know, there was, I think there was a quote that he wanted to be somewhere else all season, right? Because I think both sides there, the Eagles and Fangio, there was a little bit of sour grapes at that partnership didn't work out a year ago. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know if I put that on Mike McDaniel. There were a lot of factors there, but certainly Mike McDaniel had one of the great defense coordinators in the NFL in his building. And Anthony Weaver, I think is a good coordinator too. But that has not worked out well.

Yeah, I would say too, you know, for the draft work that I'm doing, you know, I'll always go and I listen to the one of the, I love listening to like the post-mortem press conferences from like the head coach and GM like after season's end. And yeah, and so going back and watching Mike McDaniel and Chris Greer talk through the dolphins at the end of January after the regular season ended for them, a big topic of conversation for them was the amount of like punishments they had. had to levy against players for like being late to meetings and being late to practice and like all like that like the conduct detrimental stuff that to me like that's symptomatic of like the culture and speaks to the stuff that they had going on last year as well that maybe they didn't feel comfortable with Vic Fangio coming in and was a team act was a Tim McManus who came in and said like the first line Vic Fangio's first meeting with you guys don't know how to work hard you're not that's not your fault I'm going to teach you how to work hard like if that's the mindset you know

If you have players that aren't willing to buy in and aren't willing to embrace that, then yeah, that's kind of what you're going to get. I think it's hard in Miami. I think it's hard to get guys to buy in in Miami. But here's the thing, though, then if you are the team builder down there, you have to be cognizant of that. And it's the same thing in Vegas. Like you have to be cognizant of the players that you bring in to keep those guys in line that way.

Yes. Jared says, can Zach tell his boy, Nick Wright, that the Chief's defense did not play well just because they stopped Sequin. Hertz was able to torch them regardless. I honestly haven't watched what Nick said. If Nick said that the Chiefs defense played well because they stopped Sequin, I would disagree with that position from Nick. Once again, I said this number of times.

I really like Nick. Nick's been very good to me. He's a friend. He's been very loyal to me over the years. That doesn't mean that I endorse every comment or every opinion that he has. It's just like wrestling fans yelling at a hearing. heel. Like, it would calm down. Like, I disagree with Nick on a lot of things.

Don't be so triggered. It's so stupid. Yeah, I was, I was, I was, I was responding to someone to into Discord, like, you know, like, you're right at the question, Zach's judgment because he defends Nick Wright. Like, if, if there's someone who, who's been really good to you for 20 years. Forget about how good to you he's been. He's, he's a, he's a media star of his own making. Like, yeah. So, yeah, so that's, that's, that's kind of my, that's my view on it. Uh, Michael Victor to Sean Jackson. Thanks for your hard work.

Greetings from Czech Republic. Shout out. I love that. And then Tyler says, do you think Howie will be more aggressive trying to move up in the draft due to the young age and lack of glaring holes in the current roster? I'm defer to Beth Fran here. This is good one. Yeah.

My guess is no. And also, like, I don't know what this is the, I mean, look, you let the board come to you. But I don't think this is a draft where you're going to see a lot of teams moving up necessarily. Although you can look at both ways. I mean, as we've talked about on the draft show, you know, Bo and I, we talk about the top of this draft, not a talent-rich group when you get into the top 10. But I think when you look at the ambiguity there,

that could potentially lead to situations where, you know, one team has a player valued as a top 10 player that not a lot of teams do. And maybe that's when you see a team try and move up because of the talent disparity there. My guess is they will stand pat and collect picks. And, you know, that's what they did. Remember, they picked 32 going in, you know, in the 2018 draft. and they moved off that selection.

Lamar Jackson. So, you know, who knows if that's a similar kind of scenario here. Yeah, and to butcher's that, that point, you're absolutely right. Even in the 2020-3 draft, their intention was to trade back. Had Nolan Smith not falling to number 31, I think how he said that they would have traded back. Like, they were fielding calls to move back unless Smith fell there. Their first round pick in the draft. My definition, he was first draft pick in the draft.

Yes. It's really good that you just have all of those lined up. I was going to say something else, and then I forgot what it was. So let's take a break in here from our sponsors. At Ace Hardware Home Services, whenever they get ready for the next job, they remember what to bring. What do they bring? They bring experience.

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visit trumark.com slash compare for full details and to apply today. Truemark financial federally insured by NCA, equal opportunity lender, terms and conditions apply, all loan subject to approval, 3% balance transfer fee applies. Stanford rates apply after the promotional rates. My question that I remembered, Fran, was how do you feel about this Abdul Carter just like being a sicko Eagles fan? I've never seen anything like it. It's really, I've never seen anything like with a top prospect. Honestly, with like any draft prospect.

Yeah, I know that there was talk with AJ Brown, like when AJ Brown came out, you know, like he was, he grew up a huge Patriots fan. And, you know, he visited the Eagles, you know, during that pre-draft process, came in on a top, on a 30 visit. And their Super Bowl, like, like artwork on the walls and stuff like that. And he like commented on that. But to see like guys do it publicly. I think is very funny.

I feel like Vinny is the closest I can remember, honestly. Remember, like, it was a known thing that Vinny was a huge Eagles fan. I asked Vinny about that. I was like, if social media was as big now as it was then, or if it was as big then as it is now, like, would you have been? Like what Abdul Carter is? He's like, oh, absolutely. But I do think it's very, very rare.

Vinny, I was talking to him yesterday trying to get our parade plans together. And by the way, remember this. Vinnie Curry signed a one-day contract with the Eagles this season. He may be getting a ring. I think the one-day contract is ceremonial. It's not like it doesn't count against the team. It's not binding. No, it doesn't count against it's a ceremonial contract.

It's not like it's in your books or in the league register. But yeah, I'm sure if you wanted to get a ring, I mean, I think they give those out to some people. so yes yes they do um anyway uh he was i he was we were talking about jellix hunt and he's like oh yeah like that that's been the book on tunie uh forever like that's film study like he he you can run right through that guy like just just just dating back to when he went up against him so um that was interesting okay by the way on for the parade everybody should know scheduled for the rest of the week we're gonna have a two o'clock show tomorrow with jamie and rich because it will coincide with the Eagles locker room clean out tomorrow.

That means that Zach and I will be doing a primetime show tomorrow night, hopefully around 8 o'clock to unpack everything we learn then. And then on Friday, parade day, we're going live at 5 o'clock. We're pulling off the 2 o'clock because that's when the Eagles will be doing their speeches. We're going live at 5 with me and Fran and maybe some other guests to talk about everything we see and a big day of celebration in Philadelphia. Let's flip to the offense, Fran. And this is part of why, you know, Zach, I think your column today on why you voted for Jalen Hertz was important.

But it also could have just been like one sentence, which is that every single Super Bowl quarterback performance since 2000, Jalen Hertz has the best EPA per dropback, number one. Every single quarterback, number one is Jalen Hertz. It's funny that two and three are both Nick Foles and Tom Brady from the 2017 Super Bowl. But number one is Jalen Hertz. And I don't think I appreciated this. Where's this 22 game? It's a little bit lower, but it's pretty high up.

And here's the other thing. You want to play arbitrary endpoints. Jalen Hertz has two games in his entire career in which he had 70 rushing yards, 200 passing yards, and a 70% completion percentage. only two games in his career and they're both Super Bowls. Like, you know, I'm not talking about rising to the moment. Like, I don't think I appreciate it in real time just how good he was. And here's how I look at it because, you know, there's obviously a lot of talk about,

because as always, you know, about Jalen Hertz, about this performance. And to me, the arguments that have been had about, you know, his execution of the offense and, you know, the status of the passing game throughout the majority of the second. and a half of the season. You know, everybody was obviously, it was so split and it was so divisive. I think both sides of it should feel validated by what we've seen from Jalen Hertz over the last couple of weeks. Because the way I look at it, I'm like, yeah, like he'll be the, again, he's the first

to say the standard is the standard. We know that Jalen Hertz is capable of plays like games like this. And it wasn't just this Super Bowl. It was also like what we've seen him do in the past. So you want to expect that level of efficiency. Maybe he doesn't need to be like the best quarterback in Super Bowl history every single week. He doesn't need to do that in week seven and week 11 and week three, but better than what it was, I think is important. So yeah, like you're going to hold them to that standard constantly. I think

that's fair. And then the other side of it, because obviously there are people that say like, oh, you can't, you can't, you can never win with them. You can't, you know, you're not going to be able to win a championship with this guy. That's obviously ridiculous. As Meg texts me from the other room, he's the best quarterback in NFL history. She's listening to talk. I think when you look at what what Chathen does, you know, as a passer, you know, look, he, he absolutely is able to be that guy at any given point he could put the offense on his back and, and carry them to victory. And so I think when you look at this game, it's a perfect encapsulation of, yeah, like both sides of that argument should feel validated by that performance. Yeah, my advice to Joe, and if he's watching right now,

is like what I or I should say I'm not my advice that's not the right way of my hope for Jalen is that he he enjoys this that he appreciates it like Jalen tries so hard sometimes to to manufacture and it's been real I get that but like to to really thrive off the criticism right and Jalen was outstanding he was spectacular the numbers back it up like if you in real time you know I I wrote there today there were a few things that jumped out to me in real time that really swayed me. The first being, it became clear, as you mentioned, that the chiefs were determined not to let Sequin Barclay beat them, right? So the way for the Eagles to score on offense needed to be with Jalen.

If Jalen played the way he did against Carolina, and perhaps they still win that game, but it would have been a much closer game. And it would have been a much more competitive game going into the fourth quarter if he wasn't hitting his passes, if he wasn't efficient that way. The second thing is I thought the secret. in the third quarter, it's 24-0 at that point. He has that drive with three runs for 52 yards, puts them in field goal range, and then the next play,

or I'm sorry, the next drive first play is the pass to Devante, which is like the signature play of the game for him. That sequence there is when I said, all right, he's the MVP. And I just think that, like, Jalen, I don't know how Jellon will handle being, like, beloved, but he's he is the mic you know all the michael jordan cosplay as you call it uh he earned it right i mean all he's he's at the top of the sport right now and uh there's there's no questioning that

he earned it does that jalen texting you right now watching the show uh someone else with eagle it's not jeline big flex um i think you know the thing that that i do feel validated about Fran is just where are all the deep balls all this time? Because like he throws such a beautiful deep ball. It's probably his best strength as a passer. And like the fact that they were so low in the league, the entire second half of the season and throws downfield is still bewildering to me. But who cares now?

I mean, they made it happen on the biggest stage. The craziest play to me where it was like, oh, Gailen is locked in and it was early on was the Dotson throw. because for him to check to that, and it was very clear that that was a check pre-snap. You know, this is the first time that Spaggs is bringing a big blitz. And for him to check to a go-ball to Jahan Dotson, who he has not trusted all season long and then throws a dime.

Like, it was like, oh, this is a different guy tonight. To me, the aspect I wrote about this and the piece that's up on all p.chly.com now that went up this morning, is, you know, we, when I wrote that piece in early December about some of the issues with the past game, we, we kind of did like that, that deep dive look at the plays where Jalen held on to the football. And, you know, one stat we talked about on Sunday after the game was the fact that this was the third longest average time to throw for Hertz in any game this season, playoff or regular season. So, you know, everyone that wants to point, he holds onto the ball too long, this, that and the other, he doesn't see the field. It's not about holding on the ball too long.

It's about what you do on those plays. And in that show and in that piece, we said, like, yeah, like not efficient. He was too many throwaways, too many sacks, not attacking down the field. He's holding onto the ball for a long period of time and still like throwing checkdowns, like throwing stuff underneath.

A lack of explosiveness and a lack of efficiency. He had 16 dropbacks where he held it for over two and a half seconds. And that was the benchmark that we used, you know, back in December. So 16 dropbacks. He went 11 of 14 for 1445 yards and two touchdowns. on those plays. Some of those plays were by design, you know, long, like long developing play action deep shot to Devante Smith, but some of them were him running around and finding Sequin Barkley for 22 yards, him running around and finding Dallas Goddard down the field, right? So I think

to me, the one of the big things in this game was A, Jalen being decisive on some of those. I mean, he scrambled for a season high in terms of overall yards, just shy as 60 yards purely as a scrambler, not even counting the design runs. But then also late in the down, like that playmaking dimension that made him such a good quarterback in 2022 and made him such a good quarterback in the first half of last season as well. That's like the part of it where you want to let him be, to me, like when you're talking about Jalen Hertz and that the straight jacket that he referenced after the NFC title game, that's where my mind goes. My mind goes to when when things break down, let him be the playmaker. That might result in an interception. That might result in, you know,

in a fumble, you know, outside. I'm fine with a guy being aggressive and, you know, try and make a big play and you know maybe you fall short sometimes if it means you're going to create those big plays you know for the majority of the time else elsewhere and so for me that that was the big difference in this one was what jalen did you know late in the down outside of structure and then also like he was just extremely decisive as the game went on sorry Zach I're going to go uh rohit has a super chance says spaggs overrated uh I I believe uh row hit we met on Saturday at the meetup and he was going to wait until closer to the game time to buy tickets. So I hope you got in.

Let us know in the chat if that worked out. What else on offense, Fran, jumped out to you as you rewatched? Yeah, I think the one thing was the opposite of the run game was not there for the Eagles. You know, in this one, you know, we talked last week about how, you know, the Eagles are a good tackling team. The chiefs have been the best tackling team in football through this year. And that showed up in this game. this was not a scenario where they loaded the box,

you know, where they're, oh, you know, we're going to break. They actually played a decent amount of, 6 a.m. game day, he says, rub it.

Man, that's, that's outstanding. I'm sure through game time, came through for him. But this was not a game where the chief said, we're going to load the box. Now, those safeties did an outstanding job of coming downhill

and filling against the run late. You know, and to me, like, what they were trying to do was, all right, we're going to, we're still going to protect ourselves

on the back end, but we want to make sure our safeties are very aggressive coming downhill to defend the run. You saw a number of one-on-one tackles from those guys. I thought the interior of the Eagles offensive line, Bechton, Juergens, Dickerson, struggled to block the interior of the Chiefs in the run game. I mean, Wharton had some really good run stops. Dickerson, you could tell. I mean, he was definitely feeling it from a health standpoint, that knee, definitely hurting him. Jurgens got beat a couple times. You can see that in the locker room as well, Lyndon.

Landon was hurt all season. Yeah, I believe it, especially down the stretch. So I think that to me, you know, the run, a lot of people were like, oh, like Spags, like how didn't he adjust? I think what Spaggs did the, that was the best game plan you could have had, right? Was you're going to come in, you're going to try and take Sequin Barkley out, the best from a like, all right, we're not going to divert all of our resources. We're not going to play completely far back.

We're still going to make sure we play with an even box and we're going to play those safeties up aggressive. And then, yeah, like the Eagles pass game has that success in the second, in the first and second quarter, but I mean, they're down 24-0. A touch to, you had one touchdown that was the pick six, and yet another touchdown was set up that was set up by the short field after the one interception, right? So if you're if you're spags, you know, all right,

the U guys are going to come out, they're up 24-0, they're going to run the ball. They're going to try and suck the playout. We have to continue doing what we're doing. We have to try and stop the run as best. Thanks for watching on fast. Check out the rest of the show at all phto.com. Nice, nice job sneaking that in.

You have to continue to stay the course there from a game plan. standpoint. So I thought Spag's game plan was fine. They just did not have the horses to hold up against A.J. Brown, Devante Smith, John Dotson, Dallas Goddard. They did not have the ability to be able to hold up there. Jalen Watson got beat really badly in this game numerous times. A.J. Brown, too big, too physical for Trent McDuffie. So this was this was just that case where the Eagles on the perimeter were too good for Kansas City in this one. I'm curious if you guys caught AJ Brown's Instagram post. Yes.

Yeah, what were your thoughts on that? It felt very Zach Berman. You know what? I could actually empathize with that, too. But yeah, so for the audience, I'll just read this quickly. After a few days, I've had time to reflect on being a champion. I tried to feel how everyone made it seem to be a champion, and unfortunately it was short-lived.

Two days to be exact, L-O-L. I've never been a champion at the highest level before, but I thought my hard work will be justified by winning it all. It wasn't. My thrill for this game comes when I dominate. It's the hunt that does it for me. It's when the DB drops his head and surrender because he can't F with me. The intense battles, early morning, late nights, sacrifices. I love putting smiles on people's faces. Don't get me wrong. But it just wasn't what I thought it would be. It's the journey that I love the most back to work. I thought that I thought that was awesome. I mean, I feel bad for him. It's a little sad. Yeah, I felt bad that that wasn't what. he thought it would be. But, but, but like I've, it's a sentiment I've heard from a number of, like, great ones that, like, the, they, like, their favorite feeling is, like, just before you win it. Like, once you win it, it's like, wait, this is it, you know, and actually it's something, Howie Roseman, I spoke to Howie last Monday. And I asked Howie what the 34-year-old, the one who was, you know, the youngest GM in NFL history, or,

or the youngest GM in the NFL at the time, would say to the 49-year-old version or would think of the 49-year-old version. And he would say like, he said he would be like more emotional, like happier. He said, you know, the 34-year-old, all he wanted to do was like win a Super Bowl. And then Howie said he won a Super Bowl.

And it was like this intoxicated feeling and all the matter was winning the next one. And when we talked to Howie, I'm curious to find out, like, did you enjoy, you know, I certainly looked in the locker room like he enjoyed it. But I just wonder sometimes, like, is part of what makes, it's the chicken or it's the chicken and the egg? Like, do you need to be wired that way to be great or like, you know, so I'm fascinated by AJ's mindset?

Yeah, I just kind of feel bad for him. I don't feel bad for him because it's, it's like it's, it's the journey, you know? It's like, it's getting back up and trying to do it again. And that's like, like, that's the thrill more than. anything else. But yeah, I mean, I do wish it lasted more than two days for him. But yeah. A couple things. One, he's going to have plenty of other opportunities here in the next couple months to kind of relive. I mean, Friday, like that parade is going to be a day where like it's all going to wash back over him. I'm sure he will feel differently if he were to do

an Instagram post on Friday night after a full day of celebration with all the fans that will be in attendance, getting the ring, you know, that I think that, you know, when that happens, you know, in June or, you know, whenever that is, that will be, you know, another day where you get to kind of relive that. So that's the first one. But then on the other side of it, you know, I know, Sean McVe, I mean, this was like a big part of what led to, like, his burnout. And he, I would, I would tell everybody to go and, you know, reread some of the stuff that came out after that. I know our friend Jordan Rodriguez did excellent reporting around it. He has spoken a lot about it in different, like, interviews that he's done. But, you know, he won that

Super Bowl a few years back. And he had that feeling of like, man, like, it's not what I thought it was going to be. And there was like a, it was then followed up by like burnout of like trying to chase it again and like coming up empty and like the feelings that come with that. I don't know if there's a, if that's going to be in the internet inter excellence like sequel book or, or what. But I hope that AJ is able to like kind of come to grips with that. There's a lot there to chew on that we can't do in the, in this podcast.

It's an interesting topic. Yeah, Dan Hurley, it was the same exact thing. I remember reading a piece by Seth Davis that, like, Dan Hurley won. And I was like, this is it, you know? And it's a fascinating psychology to me. But it really, I wonder if you have to be wired that way to be great in some respects. I'm curious, friend, now that Kellan Moore has gone, what is, like, what would you like, what would you like see from the next offensive coordinator.

I'm going to be honest. I was asked on a show about this this morning and thinking about it. I don't know that it matters because I think that I think the offense. I like that take. Yeah, you know why? What gives a crap? Because, okay, the talent on the offense is going to be this. As long as it's not Matt Patricia, basically.

Right. Yes. Like, I think there's just a floor you have to hit. Yeah. I think that the impact of the offensive coordinator in this ecosystem with the number one with the talent, but then number two, like I think what we say, and look, well, you know, we can have the discussion about like Kellan Moore versus Nick Siriani versus Jalen Hertz and, you know, who is responsible for the way the offense looks and feels. At the end of the day, like the offense was so similar, similar structurally, the years past to this year, like the lack of shock or the lack of under center and the lack of like, you know, contextually the lack of motion, even though the motion. you know, increased as the season went on. It's still finished like high by Eagle standards,

still low compared to the rest of the NFL. I just think that this offense like structurally, like is what it is. Like I don't think they're going to hire, they could hire, you know, name whoever was number one and under center play action this year in the NFL. They could bring that guy in, that coach in. I don't think that would be the case with Jaylen Hertz in this offense a year from now. So I think that it's important that whoever comes in is a good fit with the coaching staff.

It's a good fit with the players, like as able to, you know, communicate to Jalen and, you know, and make sure that you're able to reach them. But I don't anticipate that they're going to be like wholesale like sweeping changes with the way that the offense looks. I think that I took the bait on that last year and I don't think I'll be doing that again. Well, if there's now. Right. No, and I think that's right.

If there was one skill set or like minor tweak that you could, you could layer on to what already exists in this offense, what would it be? To me, I think that, you know, going back to what you said earlier, about Jalen Hertz and his performance, like what is one of his superpowers is his ability to like throw that deep ball outside the numbers, right? Now those are still low probability throws. And so yes, there are games where it's going to hit and it's going to be fireworks and there are many other games where it doesn't hit.

And so I think if you're going to bring in a coach, bring in somebody that has the ability to build in some of those easy throws to pair alongside it so that it's not just like low probability throw after low probability throw after low probability throw. I think that's what you want. You know, whether that's play action over the middle throws, whether that's shallow crossing route, like man beaters, whether that's the RPO game, like whatever it is, like finding ways to create those easy throws,

to pair with the low probability throws, I think that's the secret sauce. Okay. Remo in the chat says I feel like if they were planning on hiring Kevin Petulah, for sure they would have done it already. I mean, they've had 24 hours and they have to go through the process of interviewing people. They also have to follow the league rules. of the Rory Rule and everything.

So yeah, don't hold your breath on the decision there. Go ahead, Zach. No, absolutely right. The Eagles are going to follow procedure here. You can't just promote someone. Also, I don't know if you know. Also, it behooves them to talk to people. Yeah, but also, I don't know if you've noticed it,

but those guys have been enjoying themselves, the coaches too. Right? Like, you know, I know the Eagles are back in the office today. But my understanding is like, you know, they took some time to, you know, they didn't get in until Monday night. It wasn't like, all right, 6 a.m. tomorrow, you know, we're breaking things down. Those guys were enjoying themselves a bit. And they deserve that. Yep. No doubt about it. All right. Anything else you want to pass on from the film, Fran? No, I think we hit everything. Obviously, everybody can go check out my film breakdown over on all p.hly.com.

I also just had a piece go up that's NFL draft related. I've spent the last three weeks, or not the last three weeks, but a good chunk of the last three weeks on the road at Shrine Bowl, Senior Bowl, and then Super Bowl. And have had a lot of on the record and off the record conversations with people, you know, talking through prospects and the draft class in general. So just kind of like did a quick like mind dump of just kind of my big takeaways and how I view the class as a whole. So if you're starting to look ahead to the non-playing season and you're excited about what the draft could look like, go check that article out on all-PH-O-I.com. Good chance to become a diehard as well.

That is on discount. Also a good chance to get your Eagles merch, your P-H-L-Y Eagles merch at the All-City Store. Yeah, let me just bring from this real quick because typically I spend early February. It looks like I'm wearing the shirt. Look. typically I spend I spend early February doing draft stuff okay and then um around like around the time of the combine I really start like the week before I really start to pivot to free agency and uh and I go deep into free agency I'm kind of thinking like I'm just going to invest in free agency right now right and I won't you know I won't pick up on the draft until um like mid-march it because it's just so late in the county.

they're here. Free agency is quickly approaching. We've got to figure out what Eagles Green Dard are going to do in some of these spots. So, yeah, curious to see this approach. It's hard if I can't get my arms through the sleeves. I wasn't listening to anything I'm saying there because he was trying to fit his body into this miniature shirt in the bottom of this. Yeah, no, it doesn't. It doesn't work.

You're very easily distracted. I heard what you were saying. You're not going to focus on the draft this year. You're going to focus on free agency because you have a friend. Definitely focus on the draft. But I love, love, love the draft. But, yeah, Fran, I can't, I'd love free. Yeah, it's going to be easier for me to prepare for the draft with Fran as a resource, right?

We don't have a free agency guy. That'd be a good thing. But, you know, I need to dig into all the free agencies, all the free agents. Fran Musa with the Super Chat says, what was up with that wacky formation where they ran it with Kenny G behind three offensive linemen? What were they even trying to accomplish? That was fun. Yeah, I thought that was a bad read by Jalen. I think that should have gone to the right.

They had numbers to the right. It was like three versus one at the top of the screen. That could have gone for a big play. I think that I think that. And typically Jaylen's pretty good at reading those plays. They haven't done like that exact one. But in terms of like box count and like reading things out that way pre-snap. But that one I thought was a misread by Jalen.

And that ball should have gone. I think it was Devante at the top of the screen. offense is right. It was they had two blockers and Devante versus one defender at the top. Do you think that they were just showing it to set something up for later? Or do you think he is supposed to just read that? I think he's supposed to read it. That would be my guess.

I mean, it's possible that they were trying to set something up for later. But the way that that laid out, I looked at that and I was like, oh, there was a missed opportunity there. Okay. Zach, anything else to get off your chest? There's a lot of stuff to get off my chest, but no, I don't need to do it today. I got a few phone calls I need to return. So won't be today.

Are these eagles-related things? They get off my chest? Yeah. Some eagles, some not. No, I got some people I need to call back. So. All right. Jeffrey on line, too.

Not Jeffrey this time. No. This time. This time. Not Jeffrey. All right. Well, in that case, I'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. Thanks to everybody for watching and listening.

Jamie and Rich back tomorrow, 2 o'clock. Me and Zach, at 8 o'clock to recap the Eagles locker room clean-out day. And then it's parade day on Friday, 5 o'clock. So lots to do as we roll on covering the Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles. For Zach, Julia, Fran, I'm Bo. We appreciate you. We love you. I just said it. Yeah. But I'll say it again, as always, we love you.