PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Philadelphia Eagles trade C.J. Gardner-Johnson for Texans offensive lineman Kenyon Green

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

In a Tuesday morning shocker, Howie Roseman traded away Super Bowl champion safety C.J. Gardner-Johnson for a swap of late 2026 picks and 2022 first-round pick Kenyon Green. Does this pave the way for Sydney Brown to start at safety next to Reed Blankenship? How much will the Eagles miss Gardner-Johnson's energy on the field? Join us live to discuss. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody. And welcome to an emergency podcast on a Tuesday, Bull Wolf, Franduffy in studio. Zach Berman joining us from home as we are here to talk about the Eagles trading C.J. Gardner Johnson to the Houston Texans or former first round pick, offensive lineman Kenyon Green. There's also a swap of fifth and sixth round picks in 2026. But the Eagles moving off of C.J. Gardner Johnson,

who brought so much swagger to this defense in 2024, they brought him in to bring that juice. And now, after the first two days of the legal tampering period, the Eagles have lost five of the 11 starters on defense from their Super Bowl championship team. Zach Berman, why did the Eagles make this move? Yeah, I think this was made with kind of big picture decisions in mind, not necessarily just like the football player for player part of this.

My sense here is that the Eagles were getting a, ahead of a C.J. Garner Johnson contract situation that, as we've talked about for the past few weeks, they're not just title money now, but they have some big contracts coming down the line, Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Cooper to Jean, Quineon Mitchell, right? And so they need to decide who we're giving these contract extensions to. And I think this is something that had to factor into consideration. We've talked about the desire for them to play young players. Sydney Brown is someone that they drafted high. He's kind of blocked when you have C.J. Garner Johnson and and read Blankenship.

So Sydney in theory has more of a chance to play. And then I think, too, that there's this thought that they're good at developing offensive linemen. I'll defer to Fran and Yubo. This is a high upside offensive lineman in, you know, he was a top 15 pick. He was someone who the Eagles had on a top 30 visits. So there's intrigue there in trying to get an inexpensive high upside player because you can't pay all five linemen eight-digit contract.

So I think those are some of the things, but you're clearly losing a key player on your defense here, and you kind of want to see how this whole picture comes together. All right. We'll save Kenyon Green for the end of this episode here, but let's focus on safety here and the decision with C.J. Garner Johnson. First of all, where do they move forward right now without C.J. Garner Johnson? You've got Reed Blankenship.

You have Sidney Brown, who did not necessarily ingratiate himself to Vic Fangio this season. He came back middle of the year from PUP and was not even the third safety. He was behind Tristan McCollum. They moved Devonte-Matic's there because Vic Fangio did not trust him there. So if you're expecting him to start, that's going to take a bit of growth. It's possible that they now add somebody in free agency. Zach, how do you see them approaching that just from a short-term standpoint? Yeah.

Now, as you and I were talking on Anthony's show, you hitting on the head, Beau, in that Vic Fangio, like we've seen this from him. He needs to see his guy's practice. And Sidney Brown didn't practice until the season, right? And so he was playing from behind there. But he's also, he's not someone who Vic Fangio brought in. So my guess is you have re-blanketship in Sydney Brown. I can see them adding a veteran in the same ilk that we're talking about with

cornerback with Keely Ringo, a veteran to kind of compete with Sidney Brown. but the Eagles have done that in the past with your Terrell Edmonds types and it doesn't always work, right? And the other part too is the draft, but I do think Sidney Brown's going to get an opportunity to try to win this job.

And do you think there's a reed blank and ship extension coming? I think it would make sense if it's at terms that I don't think reed blankship was going to be as expensive as C.J. Garner Johnson. He's entering the last year of his deal. He's someone who he's on the leadership council, the Eagles really value what he brings.

And he's probably, I can't imagine it's going to cost like a significant amount. So I can see read blanket chip getting extended, but I don't think that's like high on the to-do list right at the moment. All right, Fran. Let's talk about C.J. Garner Johnson, the player. Yep. We'll get to what he brought, you know, physically and from an emotional standpoint in a minute. But from from a on the field standpoint, but like early in the season, there were some missed

assignments on the back end and there was one or two in particular that Vic himself pointed to grew at the back of the season was obviously an integral part of that defense what of what he brings on the field will the Eagles miss the most I think you have that playmaking dimension right that ability to take the football away which we didn't really see in the first half of the year it popped up a little bit more in the second half I just think that volatility is that that that's the toughest part with his game especially in a defense like this that you know when I when I think of Vic Fangio defense it's so buttoned up. It's so rules heavy. You want to make sure everybody's in the right place, kind of reading what everybody else is doing. Everybody kind of working is one. That's where CJ Gardner Johnson is a little bit

lesser than when you compare him to some of the other top players that have excelled in this scheme. And certainly looking at that defense last year, if you were to ask me in week 10, who's the weak point of that back seven? I would have pointed to CJ. And I would say that that was the guy that I was most worried about. If there was going to be a bust on the back end from a coverage standpoint, he was the guy I would have pointed to. Now, to be fair, that doesn't really sound like Sidney Brown's game either just based on what we've seen from him. You know, he is an unbelievable physical marvel and he's moving at like 150 miles an hour. But that's because he's seeing and going.

And so that would be something that they need to grow on. I think they're probably going to need a body there. And listen, I don't want to go too far down this road. But I do wonder long term if, you know, would they rather have Cooper DeGine be the best safety in football? I was going to bring it up. You know, like isn't that a possibility? Yeah, I think that that could be a long term. long-term possibility. And again, we're getting into

like semantics here in terms of like what the short term is. Because I would still think that in 2025, you probably still want Cooper DeGine to be your nickel. Right. So maybe it's the same conversation we would have about him playing corner. All right, well, if you're going to be a nickel, you know, 78, 80% of the time anyway, and it was more than that for the majority of the year, Cooper DeGine's going to be your slot and somebody else is going to be your second safety. But I do think long term, that might be Cooper DeGine's best spot. That was something we talked about last year when he was coming out of Iowa. And a good point on the super chat from real men sit to pee. I know that's right. Who says, could Lewis Seen be an option

to play this year? That's a player who obviously they know well, former high draft pick has the Georgia connectiveness. And so they will give him a look. But I do still think the Eagles will make some other kind of move here. There's something else to come. The last thing to talk about with C.J. Garner Johnson, Zach, is, you know, last offseason after the 2023 collapse, so much of the reason for bringing back C.J. Garner Johnson was what he brought to the tone. of the defense, the defense that they thought internally was a little bit too soft. And what a story it has been for CJ Garner Johnson, two years with the Eagles, two Super Bowl appearances. But I would say that I think they are better suited this year to, to handle

that departure because you have a guy like Zach Bond who was bringing that physicality. You have Cooper DeGine who was bringing that physical. Nolan Smith a year ago, they knew he was physical. They didn't know if it was going to be on the field that much. He's bringing that violence. Jalen Carter is obviously bringing that violence. Even Quinyon Mitchell, will lay his shoulder. So this defense should be well suited to continue that nastiness. Yeah, you hit it on the head. And it wasn't really until you said it earlier where I said,

you know what, you're right, because I was probably anchored to the idea that C.J. Garner Johnson brings that. And he does. Like, you know, there's, there's no denying it when you're in the locker room, when you talk to other guys,

CJ Gardner Johnson has, has, I call it the competitive zeal. But there is, it is like an, an identifiable charisma that helps that defense. But the identity of the defense has changed since C.J. Garner Johnson's first in since 2003. And you're right.

Like the Zach Bond contract. And we talked earlier this week about Zach Bond being miced up during the Super Bowl. Zach Bond's a huge part of this defense. He's one of the defensive leaders. Jalen Hertz has spoken about the Georgia players and kind of the way, you know, When Jalen was out of the lineup, he really saw what the Georgia players brought to that group on defense. He commented on that. So Jalen Carter, Nicopi Dean, Nolan Smith, you know, these are all got Jordan Davis.

These are all guys who have big voices in that locker room. And then Cooper, the Gene Quignan Mitchell are vital parts of what the Eagles have going on here. So you talked about the players that the Eagles have lost. They've lost obviously key players, players who. Eagles fans have known for the past three, four, five, six, seven years in Josh Sweets case. But the personality of the defense has changed. And Vic, it is a Vic Fangio's unit now. And so I think a lot of it comes from Vic Fangio as opposed to from the players. Right. Let's pivot now to Kenyon Green, who the Eagles are getting from the Texans.

Now, obviously the Texans willing to give up an offensive lineman for the second day in a row after trading Laramie Tunsell yesterday tells you what they feel about that offensive line. I'm not going to give you PFF grades as gospel, but Kenyon Green was very bad as a rookie, injured in the year two, and then by the numbers was very bad again last year. But this is a guy with a first round pedigree. We will remember he was the guy who was taken by the Texans at 15

after the Eagles moved up from 15 to 13 to select Jordan Davis. Give us your scouting report on Kenyon Green coming out, Fran. What is coming to Stoutland, you? Yeah, I mean, this was a player that had great pedigree. He was a five-star recruit, one of the top tackles in the country coming out of high school. So you knew about him right when he got to Texas A&M. And he became a starter as a freshman there down in college station, 6 foot four, 323 pounds, 34-inch arms, 83-5-inch wingspan.

So absolutely looks the part. Played some tackle, but really, and it was late in the year. But everybody kind of thought this guy was going to be a guard. And early on in his career, that's what he played at A&M. Gets to Houston. They insert them right away as a rookie left guard. and as you mentioned, he kind of struggled. Now, here's my report on Kenyon Green coming out.

Three-year starter at guard in Jimbo Fisher's pro-style scheme. Athletic Mahler on the interior who can be a weapon in space with his movement and his tenacity. He needs to clean things up technically. And with that improvement, he may be better to play to his size. Now, not a consistently powerful player at the point of attack right now, but he's athletic, he's tough and he's versatile, and that will allow him to stick and give him a runway. He's got the ability to be a good starter in the NFL as a starting goal. guard on either side. He has a high ceiling and is capable of being one of the league's best,

but he's far too inconsistent with his technique right now. And I believe that he, that will hold him back early on, a high variance player, but still capable of being a good starter. And the, the big thing with him was, again, really young, 20 years old on draft day. So he's still a very young player that you're bringing into the building. And so look, I haven't watched every single snap of Kenyon Green. I've watched a little bit here and there. So I went to one of our, one of our friends and one of the renowned offensive line experts, Brandon Thorne. And I shot Brandon at Texas.

I was like, hey, you've watched basically every snap of Kenyon Green. What's been the book over the stories of his lack of success over the last couple of years? And I got permission to read this out for the show. So he said, let me pull it up really quick. He said technically he's basically still a raw rookie.

He opens up too early against widely aligned rushers with late and wide hands that expose his chest and diminish his anchor. does not always bring his feet in the run game, and that leads to getting overextended. He's basically a ball of clay with good tools. So again, when you're looking at coming into a situation like this where he's going to likely play between Lane Johnson and Cam Juergens, he's going to compete with Tyler Steen.

Tyler Steen's not going to go down without a fight for that job. So someone's going to be pushing Kenyon Green. At the very worst, you have a player with position flexibility that can play guard or tackle very much like Tyler Steen. You got a guy that's got that pedigree. it should make for a really good training camp battle. I think it's a great entry into Stoughton University. And also, by the way, since the same draft class as Jordan Davis, like you mentioned,

Bo, the Eagles have to decide if they're going to pick up a fifth year option. My guess is that would be no. But honestly, with how the guard market is right now, that could be something that they look at. Now, last thing for you, Zach, very quickly, do you think this means that Mackay Beckett has definitely gone? Yes, it would really surprise me if the Mackay Beckett comes back. I think, frankly, Kenyon Green is the Mackay Beckton from one year ago, right?

And it's obviously not apples for apples from a side perspective, but a former first-round pick whose stock is down, who Jeff Stoughtland tries to rebuild. And for the scouting report that obviously Fran just gave, right, that sounds like someone you want Jeff Stalind to develop. And he has traits that Jeff Stoutland tends to look for. But, yeah, it would surprise me. I know there are reports out there that, you know, don't rule out. I'm Beckton coming back to the Eagles.

Number one, when you see what guards were getting paid on the open market yesterday, number two, you see this move. I don't think the Eagles are going to spend 10 million plus to bring Mackay Beckton back. My guess is that's what it takes to keep him. Like I said, you can't have five starters making 10 plus million dollars. I'm expecting Cam Jergens to get a contract extension soon. So I'm expecting the right guard, frankly, to be Kenyon Green. not Tyler Steen. I'm expecting to be Kenyon green next season.

All right. Well, bottom line, the Eagles get to scratch their former first round pick fetish. We're happy for them on that front. And it should be said, we're talking about what they're going to do from here. Right now, they do seem to be in a mode of cutting cash. And I don't know if that is part of a long-term plan for next off-season or something else entirely. But we will see over the next 48 hours and the next week or so if they make any big money additions. but for now they seem to be in cost-cutting mode. If you are watching live, make sure that you join us right at noon for the draft show with Fran Duffy.

And then we are live at 2 o'clock with the P.H.O.Y. Eagle Show, unless there's more breaking news before then, we'll be here all day. Thanks for watching this emergency pod. We'll talk to you later. And as always, we love you.