PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Philadelphia Eagles’ undrafted rookies: Could Maxen Hook, Hollin Pierce push for roster spots?

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

The Eagles have a history of keeping undrafted rookies. Which of those players could make the 53-man roster this year? Fran Duffy and Zach Berman discuss this class, with Fran offering his scouting report of each player. Plus, we’ll look at the players the Eagles have kept in the past — like Reed Blankenship, T.J. Edwards, Corey Clement — to see if there’s anything that can be learned from that group Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It is May 1st. We are no longer in NFL draft month, but we are still talking about the NFL draft. And those who are not drafted. I'm Zach Berman. That's Fran Duffy. You are watching the P. H.L.Y. Eagle Show. We are brought to you by True Mark Financial Credit Union. Fran. April was your month, man. Like you were all over April. And here we are in May. And we're talking about the draft. But we're talking about players who went undrafted. So as if you didn't have enough players on your docket during the past X amount of months, now you have to go back and rewatch film of players who did not get picked. How have you handled these past three, four days? It's honestly, it's kind of fun because I'm not doing like full scouting reports on these players. It's honestly it's because with all these players, all right, we want to, I want to be able to squint and see like what is the best case scenario, right?

Like, what's the case for this player trying to contribute to make the team or make the practice? squad. So I can watch a pass rusher. I'm like, all let me just watch all of his pressures and all of his run stops. A wide receiver. Let me watch all of his, all of his catches or all of his targets, depending on the usage, right? So it makes it a little bit more fun because I'm trying to take more of a positive spin. I'm being realistic, obviously, but the film study is not quite as intensive. I'm writing, you know, one paragraph blurbs. Obviously, I knocked the Eagles out first. That got done on Monday, but, you know, just getting through and like, all right, let me watch all the Cowboys undrafted free agents, all the Bears, all the Cardinals.

So I've been watching a lot of players over the last few days doing a lot of guys this week, but it's been a fun exercise. So let's lay this out. Okay, this is the show, I should say, our boss, Vince, outstanding boss. This is his favorite show of the year. I could tell him we'll be doing a week of Jihad Campbell shows. And he'll say, what about the undrafted guys? Vince loves the undrafted free agents.

Bo, we miss Bo right now, can't wait to see him next week. Bo excels in this undrafted show. He always did, you know, extensive write-ups on the undrafted players. So I thought, man, Fran has big shoes to fill. And then yesterday, the piece comes out on all p.hly.com. Make sure you check that out. Make sure you're a diehard. You know that by now.

And I am floored. Fran grinds the film on the, on, on, on, the undrafted players. As you mentioned, identifies like characteristics. You know, I think you used the term squint. Squins to see what would work, even ranks the players as far as how they could, you know, the likelihood to make the team. It's important to lay out here because that piece comes out and you hear messages from people, from readers, viewers. What about player X?

What about player Y? This is important to note with the undrafted class. Yes. The Eagles will be on the grass tomorrow. They will be practicing tomorrow. The players come in today. Until they sign their contracts, the team does not announce it because there are situations where either players back out a deal,

something comes up elsewhere, something comes up physically. So these are all reported signings. And then the other part that we should also note is the Eagles can oversign, and that requires them to cut a player on the roster. So there's always roster machinations that have. in the final like 24 hours before a rookie camp. So that's the first thing to note. The second thing to note is this, that you obviously can't have a full rookie camp

with 10 draft picks and eight undrafted players. There are numbers of tryout players. There's a handful of tryout players, I would say more than a handful, both rookies and veterans who will be on the field tomorrow and Saturday. And the Eagles will probably sign one or two from that pool of players. and then come training camp might revert back to that pool of players. So the group that we're talking about today is incomplete, but it does give a good sense of the,

of obviously eight players that the Eagles will have in camp, than two additional players that were not in your article that we've learned about since. Yeah, and that's the thing that gets tricky because so much of this is reliant on what does the player put out, what does the agent put out. Sometimes a player might post on Instagram, you know, like heading to Phil. with like emojis and stuff, but does that mean that he got invited to a rookie camp? Does that mean he signed a contract? Does that mean they're talking with him and he's going to sign a contract? But nothing has been like, it's kind of like handshake right now.

None of these guys have signed yet. Otherwise, they would have been announced now that that they're arriving, I would anticipate that if it's not tonight, it'll be first thing tomorrow or midday tomorrow, certainly before they take the field when the team will make it official. But I can't tell you how many times, you know, I was with the Eagles for 12 years where players get like reported as like oh yeah they're going to be here as an undrafted free agent but they're actually only going to be there on a tryout basis so uh i tried to hone this list on i think it was eight final players uh that had been reported as like yeah that this player is going to sign uh like you said we had some people in the response oh what about this player what about that player

uh so i was able to squeeze a couple of those guys in i know there was one that was late breaking uh this afternoon we're seeing a bunch of uh potential tryout players as well including one some guys that were at the combine, but to me, I wanted to kind of keep this to hear the players that it's been reported numerous and numerous spots that they're going to sign undrafted free agent contracts. Exactly. I thought that was important to establish at the top because this is an ambiguous process every year where, I mean, for no fault of reporters or people online,

people try to get ahead of it, but it is fluid until the player signs their contract because obviously there's other teams involved. There's medical stuff, and there's also the reality of a finite amount of roster spots that teams have to work through here. So that's a preamble. I also think you and I were exchanging text about it. It's important to note to why this particular show is important for the Eagles and for Eagles fans. And that is the Eagles have a history of keeping undrafted rookies. A matter of fact, I know for a fact that they use this in their pitch to agents.

They bring up players in the past who they keep. Eagles are aggressive in particular with signing bonuses here for undrafted players. And they do that because it kind of offsets against either being on the roster, being on the practice squad. So really what you're gambling is that that player is a rosterable player to some degree. And that's why the Eagles are more aggressive with the upfront money for undrafted rookie. So this is all part of their team. building strategy. They also are pretty in tune with the strength of the class. And so they'll

they have some years where they're heavier in numbers, some years when they're lighter in numbers. And just just going through it during my time covering the team. And, you know, we can even look at it from, you know, the past 10, 12 years, some of the undrafted players that they've kept. So I'll give these names. I have some through lines, but I'm curious your thought, too. Corey Clement, T.J. Edwards, Tray Burton, Reed Blankenship, Josh Adams, Matt Tobin, Jack Stoll, Chris Polk, Eli Ricks, Josh Job. And by the way, this doesn't even get into players like Britton Covey or Greg Ward who started on the practice squad and then were promoted or elevated.

No, I should say promoted thereafter. So the practice squad is part of the tool. You hear Howie Roseman say he doesn't view it as a 53-man roster. He views it as a 69-man roster. and so that that kind of gives a good framework of how the Eagles have kept players. Guys like, like I said, T.J. Edwards became a key starter for him, you know, and one of the top linebackers in the league right now. I read Blankenship, key starter for the Eagles. Corey Clement leads the Eagles in receiving yards in the Super Bowl.

So are there through lines that you see when I mention these names? Yeah, I mean, there's a couple things come to mind, right? And not all of them are universal. but to me, you know, we talked on day three this past Saturday about how the Eagles are typically hunting for traits, right? Something unusual guys that have, you know, one thing that gives them starting potential, gives them that path to becoming an every down player or some kind of impact role player in the NFL. While that is the case, you know, at times with some of these undrafted free agents, you'll see guys like Eli Ricks who were five-star recruits, you know, that have pedigree.

Typically, this is where you're seeing more of like the high floor type of players, like the quote unquote like more the football player than the athlete the tj edwards the reed blankenships the corey clements the josh adams of the world right like so those guys that maybe have some athletic limitations there are some teams that target those players in the draft but you know one of the things honestly i said it to you just before we came on um that's been fascinated about doing the exercise this year and part of it is just the nature of this draft class in 2025 uh this draft wasn't great it wasn't a talented group but when i'm going through these undrafted free agents they're not a lot of guys were I'm watching. I'm like, oh, like, this guy's got all kinds of traits. And there's

something to be a good. It's a lot of ugly profiles. Like guys that didn't test well, they had really poor test scores or, uh, you know, maybe like the production just wasn't there and like the testing was just okay. There weren't a lot of like, oh, wow, like this guy ran four to. He blew up the pro day and then he went undrafted. Uh, there were just weren't a lot of those guys, which honestly, that plays in the Eagles favor because these are the kinds of players that they typically have had success shopping with in the past. And you're exactly right where the Eagles use this in part of the recruiting pitch, even if they have a year like this year where you have 10 draft picks.

So if you're if you're an agent and you represent, you have a client that goes undrafted, typically a team that has 10, 11 draft picks, you don't want to go there because those guys are going to have a leg up. Those guys are you want to go to a team like Minnesota or Washington where you only had five draft picks. There's less competition to fight for those available roster spots. but the Eagles consistently have made it a point to, you know, allow that path.

We're going to keep an open mind for these undrafted free agents. You know, I can remember after the Philly special in February of 2018, it was like, yeah, let's make sure we highlight the fact that the greatest play in Super Bowl history, it's an undrafted free agent, tossing the ball to another undrafted free agent, throwing it to Nick Foles, right? And so, you know, you have those connections. And, you know, Corey Clement had that unbelievable Super Bowl performance. But across the board, the Eagles definitely play.

a priority on this part of the team or the player acquisition phase? You put it better than I could because, you know, when I was looking at the at the through line, that's absolutely what it is, is that you heard Hallie Roseman on Saturday and we discussed to say what he's looking for on day three as starters. You know, you're looking for traits that your coach can build up. In the undrafted market, it's the opposite. You're not going to find if if a guy runs a four two, typically, he's getting drafted, right? You know, or I should say a 4-3, 4.

Typically, a guy's getting drafted. Colin Pierce will get to him, but like you typically don't have a guy with outstanding measurables who is undrafted, right? So what you're getting is someone like T.J. Edwards, who if you watched, and when I say you, you, I'm talking to the audience because I know you, Fran, watch T.J. Edwards at Wisconsin. If you watch T.J. Edwards at Wisconsin, you're like, that guy's one of the top linebackers in the country. And then you see him run and you're like, I don't know, he doesn't fit within the framework that you're looking for.

Britt and Covey, an older player who really productive in college, but older, smaller, so doesn't kind of fit within the framework that teams are looking for there. You know, read Blanketship. Another example of that, he was a six-year starter at Middle Tennessee State, right? but doesn't you know and he jumps off the film and you you talk to people inside the building they'll they'll say that but when you're kind of looking at it and you say well does he test well here he has the injury concern so that's that's one thing you see sometimes you might see off the field reasons why a player goes on undrafted and so you don't want to spend a pick but you're doing it that way but in the eagles case it's typically high performing college players

who lack the desired measurements. And then the other thing, too, by the way, is this could be coincidence, could not be. But all these players who I mentioned, or I should say most of them, made the team at positions where the starters had expiring contracts, right? So, you know, when Reed Blankenship made the team, Eagles, there was a lot of uncertainty about the future of the safety position.

when Corey Clement made the team, there was uncertainty about the future of the running back position. T.J. Edwards made it when there was very unsettled linebacker spot at that time. So the Eagles, now, Eli Ricks is a bit of an exception. They're a lineman. It's a bit of an exception. But it doesn't surprise me that a lot of these positions we're talking about are non-premium positions where the Eagles end up keeping these guys, right? Because like your edge rushers, your G-tackle something out, they've kept your Bruce Hector's of the world. And there are some guys like that who stand out who make it.

But typically you're looking at linebackers, safeties, you know, return specialists. They've kept in the past running backs. Positions like that have jumped out to me from the undrafted market because the Eagles can find value there. And obviously, like you said, those aren't positions where they typically have first round picks that the undrafted guy has to make it over. That's a really good point. And again, just trying to find like that value. you add to the roster. And so again, when you look at us like,

all right, maybe this guy, you know, in Britton Covey's case, we know he can come in. He can be the punt returner. You know, Trey Burton, I know there were special teams roles early on, like just trying to find guys that can come in and there's a pathway to them trying to contribute to the 53-man roster. So enough preamble here. People want to get into the players.

And if you go into all p.hly.com, Franz list is alphabetical. But at the bottom of Franz list, he, it's a great. way to break it down. He stacks it in terms of who you're most excited about in training camp here. So I really like the category. So we're going to go based on the outlook for the summer. And we'll start with the player that Fran thinks has the best chance of making the 53 man roster. And that is safety maxen hook. Friend, sell me on safety max and hook. Yeah, I mean, this is a player that I studied actually in the fall because he went to the senior bowl.

And so I wanted to make sure I got his film done before going down to mobile. And honestly, it's very reminiscent of Reed Blankenship where this is a guy who comes with plenty of experience. He was a four-year starter during his time in Toledo, which, by the way, we know the connection with Nixiriani with that staff. And then obviously they plucked Quina-Mitchell from that team last year. But when you're looking at Max and Hook, he's just solid across the board. You know, he's not a special athlete, average athlete tested that way between the combine and the pro day, nothing eye popping there. in a positive or negative way. I was honestly shocked that he didn't get drafted.

And I think at the end of the day, it was that there was nothing special about his game. And I think when you're looking at it, you know, even just kind of going through my notes, you know, I color code everything, right? So you got the blue for the positives. You got red for the negatives. There's no red in this scouting report.

Like, yeah, like, could he be a little bit more consistent as a tackler? Sure. You know, could he spare to see things a little bit faster? Definitely. You know, I think that, you know, if I'm comparing him to Reed Blanketship, Reed was a more sure tackler at middle Tennessee. Reed probably saw things a little bit faster.

So I think that that's why I probably had just a slightly higher grade. I mean, Reed was a top 12 safety for me when he was coming out of when he was coming out of college. This was the guy that I was high on. And Max and Hook in this class, he was my 11th ranked safety. This was a guy that was first team on Mac. The production was really good over the course of his career, played a ton of special teams. I think there's a path to him making this roster. Now, is it a surefire thing?

Definitely not. but when you look at the we know what the eagles lost you know at the safety position here this year we know some of the questions surrounded they spent a second round pick on andrew macuba but then i look and i'm like all right well you have tristan mccullum he's going to battle the louis seen he's going to battle and undrafted free agent last year that stuck uh with the with the 69 man roster throughout the course of the season and then it's max and hook so to me it's max and hook with those other four players mccallum seen andre sam competing for one spot you know maybe two spots if you include the practice squad. And I do think that Sam's guy or that hook has a chance

to win that job. Yeah. So a few things there. First off, not just teammates with Quinyon Mitchell, roommates with Quignan Mitchell. So close connection, the two of them at Toledo. You hit it on the head in terms of the safety depth chart. Barring injury, there's three players who I can tell you are going to be on the 53 this year. And barring trade, you know, unless, you know, Sydney Brown's traded, it's going to be read blank and chip, Drew McCuba, Sydney Brown. Beyond that Tristan McCollum's not guaranteed a spot. Louisine's not guaranteed a spot. Andrew Sam's obviously not guaranteed a spot.

So there is a pathway to this roster. And the fourth safety position is going to be someone who can contribute on special teams, right? So that's going to be a big part of it. And just from the profile, it seems that's an area where Max and Hook can help, at least initially as well. Yeah, and that's where, you know, it was the thing for Reeve that allowed him to make it early on, right? was that he had that ability to help in the third phase of the game. And when I look at Max and Hook, this is a guy that, again, has played a ton of special team.

So it's not a projection with him moving forward. This is a guy has been a starter. And when I say like core four, so I, that's a, if you go into the diehard draft guide, you're going to see a core four guy often. The core four special teams are kickoff, kick return, punt, punt return. So, you know, discounting field goal and field goal block just because those kind of, typically is your, your starters on offense and defense that occupy those spots. for the most part.

If you're looking just at those core four guys, who are core four units, who are the players that have the ability to start on all four? Max and Hook did that at Toledo, and I think he can do that in the NFL. So Max and Hook's the most likely that the next player is a big guy, Holland Pierce, and we are going to talk about him right after this break.

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We will get to it. Hit the like button. Joan Hertz is telling you to do it right there. Julia, as always, outstanding behind the scenes. There's some off-the-field stuff that we'll get to in this show. But I want to make sure we don't go too long without missing the key players here. So after the next break, I do have a non-football question for you. But right now,

And it's more like a life advice question, something I encountered this morning. And I was like, oh, goodness, this is taking a while. Little tease there. Stick around. But the next player here, this is a big dude here. This is a player who from a size perspective, you would think a draftable player. Holland Pierce, who he is, you say, talented, but more likely for practice squad than the 53, discuss to me or discuss with me, Holland Pierce.

Yeah, I mean, this is a former walk-on at Rutgers. has been there for four years. And I think when you're looking at, I mean, 6-8, 3141 pounds, 36-inch arms, an 88 and a quarter-inch wingspan. If he had been drafted, that would have been the greatest wingspan, the largest wingspan of any tackle selected in the last 10 drafts. So, yeah, this is a big human being. It was a zero-star recruit coming out of high school,

went to Fork Union Military Academy. Typically, that's like an academic qualifier kind of issue. He was, you know, for him to get under-recruited that way at that size. I know he was like he had weight issues when he was younger, but has done a lot to bounce back from that. And he's honestly, it's been remarkable to just see like how he has improved over these last couple of years. Everyone I've talked to that has been around Holland Pierce just raves about him. This is going back like earlier in the All-Star process as well. That was when I first got eyes on him.

I went down to the Shrine Bowl and he was one of the tackles down there. And you walk up next to him. You're like, man, like this kid's obviously ginormous. But like you kind of expectations. all right, like this is what he's going to look like in past pro. You know, he's not going to look great moving in reverse. I was pretty impressed with what he looked like. He's the guy's just really hard to get around.

Is it as good looking as some of these other tackles? No, I mean, he's not as athletic as some of the other tackles that he's going to line up with. But at the end of the day, when you've got that length, as long as you are pretty technically sound, you can definitely survive, you know, on the end. I mean, Fred Johnson is a large human being. He doesn't have like the lightest feet in the world. and he does a nice job of being able to maintain. And honestly, when I look at Holland Pierce, I think he's, I actually wrote down,

I actually forgot that, I wrote Fred Johnson as a comp for Holland Pierce after I, after I did my study of him back in the early stages of the offseason. So ironic that he ends up here in Philadelphia. I think when you're looking at him, yeah, athletic limitations for sure. The run game, that's an area where he definitely needs to clean up. He has issues with pad level, which means that he's not going to always be able to create that movement you would expect. for a guy that big.

That's where his height can be a disadvantage at times, but he's got great length. As long as he can just work on continuing to play with better leverage, better hand placement going into contact. There are natural tools there that, again, I was surprised that this kid did not get drafted. The reason why I didn't think that he was going to have the ability to compete for a spot on the 53 was, again,

we know that it's a, it's a pretty crowded room right now, offensive line-wise. And when you take into account that they drafted Miles Hinton, and when they draft Cameron Williams, those guys are going to start with the poll position for some of those spots, especially considering that you're talking like fifth and sixth round draft choices. I think that Holland Pierce would have to greatly, greatly outperform those two players in order to get a spot on the 53 ahead of them.

So that's why I think it's more of a practice squad kind of deal here for Pierce at the end of the day. But he's someone I would definitely not discount. Yeah, you're right there. Clear impediment to making the roster in terms of, of they take Miles and they take Cameron Williams. I don't think the Eagles are going to keep all 10 of their draft picks.

So that's something to watch. But similar types of players in, I mean, it's clear Jeff Stallon has a type, right? It's very seldom, we're talking about an undersized tackle in Eagles camp. So the term I've heard Jeff Stallon used many times

over the past 12, 13 years, 13 years is critical factors. And, you know, I think Colin Pierce would fit in that category because there's things that he has that you can't teach. So definitely someone to pay attention to, but obviously a crowded depth chart. So let's let's go next on this list. And this is a category of three. So I'm going to mention all three names and you can kind of tackle them, however, which way you want, which is looking the cloth his way on to practice squads.

This is wide receiver, Taylor Morin, cornerback, Brandon Johnson, cornerback, BJ. Mays. Let's start with the wide receiver, Taylor Morin. Yeah, this is, well, first, we would be remiss if we didn't throw in a go deeks there for Bo. This is your, this is your Britain Covey archetype, right? This is, he's the career leading receiver in Wake Forest history, played there for six years, high volume pass target, but he's short, like short arms, 186 pounds. Tested pretty well across the board, like nothing eye popping, only, you know, just cracked four, five in the 40-yard dash. But his shuttle drills were pretty good. His 10-yard split was outstanding. So that shows you, like, short area explosiveness and lateral quickness, but not long speed. So, you know, okay, we get the

idea here in terms of like prototypical slot guy, returned punts for each of the last five years, and then had a touchdown last year. So he's got some return chops. I thought there were some good flashes as a route runner, whether it was like settling into soft spots and zone coverage or, you know, being able to get DBs turned around, understanding how to attack leverage. Like, he's a pretty savvy route runner. He's not going to be like this, you know, super like dynamic yards after catch weapon with the ball in his hands. But, yeah, certain kind of receiver. Like this is the Britain Covey archetype. Yeah, I thought Britain Covey, and you wrote this in your write-up, I thought Britain Covey was better coming out of college than. Yes, I agree. Is it Marin or

Morin? I think it's Morin, but don't quote me on that. All right. So Morin, so, but But, you know, the resistance to making the roster here is not as great as it is in other spots. You mentioned it in your write-up. You're absolutely right. Anaya Smith is the guy he's competing with here. Now, the Eagles like Amaya Smith. They invested a fifth round picking him last year. They kept him on the roster for a reason.

But that's kind of the spot that he's going after. So now let's look at the two corners. And we can put these corners together. And that is Brandon Johnson and BJ Mays. Yeah, we'll go to Brandon Johnson at Oregon. He was a fourth year senior, so a younger senior, spent his first three years at Duke, then transferred to Oregon this past year for his final season. He spent most of his time in his career in the slot, and he's built like a slot corner,

9, 179 pounds, got short arms. This was not like a big time, like athletic tester. It was a three-star recruit. And again, like trait-wise, like they kind of are what they are. The testing was just okay across the board. I felt that he read things pretty well, you know, from off coverage when he was attacked down the field. This was not a guy that, like, panicked at the catch point. I weren't a lot of penalties.

I thought he did a nice job in terms of, you know, being able to find the football and trying to attack it. Very active blitzer had eight career sacks in his career. I thought he was pretty scrappy. At the end of the day, like Mac McWilliams is definitely far ahead of this guy. But as I was watching him, you know, they did a lot of different like coverage rotations and disguises where he's going to start in the nickel and he rotates the safety. or maybe he starts almost looking like a safety and it comes down and plays underneath zone coverage. Some of the position versatility that like Josiah Scott showed throughout his NFL career and they got creative with him.

So I actually wrote down Josiah Scott as I was watching him, former Eagles corner. That's why I think when you're looking at Brandon Johnson, like at his best, I think you're looking like fifth corner could chip, chip in on special teams. He will need to like really, really chip in in the third phase of the game if he's going to make it. I didn't see an ideal starter as a nickel corner. Yeah, 5-9-179, like you said, I was in that defense, but Jabbar Muhammad, who is the superior prospect coming out. But both, you're probably looking at slot-type players, very good defense at Oregon.

But it is, you know, the Eagles, one thing in speaking to Howie Rosebin, in the past, they thought they didn't have enough bodies in the slot in training camp. it was two years ago in particular. They tried to rectify that last year. But then, you know, what happens is Britain Covey. I'm sorry, not Britain Covey. Cooper de Jean gets injured during the summer. It's not there at the beginning of camp.

They moved James Bradbury inside. So, you know, what I think the Eagles want is to have more options in the slot this year. And, you know, they were in his position in the past, for instance, speaking about undrafted guys where they once kept Mario Goodrich because they just didn't have other options in the slot. So I agree with you that, you know, that obviously MacMewilliams is ahead of him here, fifth round pick. And as you said, the better player. But after that, I mean, I know Adora Jackson is inside, outside of versatility.

They don't have a lot of slot only players on that roster. So that would be where Brandon Johnson fits in. So then the next corner is BJ Mays. Well, can you tell me about BJ Mays? Yeah, he's another guy, younger, senior, four-year. spent two years at Incarnate Word, which is where Cam Ward, the number one pick, he began his career at Incarnate Word. So he's played two years there, then transferred up to UAB for 2023, then transferred again to Texas A&M. And he actually had his most productive season

this past year. I had six interceptions as kind of like a part-time, like role player. I played mostly in the slot. There was a player, Zach, correct me, see if you can refresh my memory here. There was a corner. I want to say it was the final. Chip Kelly season, 2015. He was undrafted free agent, bigger corner played like inside, outside. I want to say he made the 53 or he was close to making it in 2015. As I was like reading the profile just now,

like getting ready for the show, like, yeah, he kind of reminded me of this guy of that profile. But either way, well, we'll see if it comes to it. Yeah, so it was an undrafted player? So then you're thinking of, you're thinking of Denzel Rice maybe? Yes, it was Denzel Rice. Thank you. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, and this is a. because he's a six foot slot corner is kind of unusual. He is definitely quicker than fast. He ran the mid four fives at his pro day. And I think that lack of speed does show up on tape. He's just not like a super explosive player. That said, like has had a lot of production,

has gotten his hands on a lot of throws over the course of his career. I think this to get it consistently like kept transferring up and got more and more production as he moved up. So I think it's a fine bet to make. I wasn't blown away by the tape. I thought that Johnson probably had a little bit more like coverage chops, a little bit more instinctive player, but Mays just comes in the bigger package.

So yeah, he's a guy I'm interested to get a longer look at here in the summer, but I don't know that I'm necessarily too, like, too, like, fired up about what his chances would be, even to make this practice squad. Yeah, so he was at UAB for a year. The 2023 UAB secondary included Mac McWilliams and BJ Mays. So I'm going to think about there.

And his coach, an incarnate word, was G.J. Kinney, former Eagle. He had one year with G.J. Kinney. So I can't imagine the Eagles had to do much work talking to G.J. Kinney all these years later about it. But just some Eagles connections. I'm sure a conversation was had. There you go. There you go. So just some Eagles connections there.

And then let's sneak one running back in here before the break. So you have upside but fighting for NFL future, Shun Derek Powell. then you have Montreal Johnson, and then we'll get to Lance Dixon. So either Powell or Montreal Johnson, your pick for which one to go with here. Well, let's go with Sean Derek Powell. Number one, made it into Bose, the best names piece just before the draft, and it's just the outstanding category that he was put in there. The running back from Central Arkansas, another fourth year senior,

which is also, this is an interesting through line as well. Notice in this class, there's a lot of young seniors. We're doing these pieces for like Dallas and for Arizona, Chicago. It's a lot of like 60 year guys, older players. The Eagles seem to have said, all right, we're going to bring in younger seniors with this group. That was one consistent thing I noticed. But he was an FCS All-American as a true sophomore a couple years ago, had 1,500 yards and 18 touchdowns.

He's really undersized, you know, 5-7, 183 pounds, ran 4-4 at the pro day. And all the explosive numbers are really, really strong. The shuttles, like the lateral equipment. of stuff really, really bad. So it's just you kind of paints the picture of what kind of an athlete he is. The straight line juice definitely shows up. What you want with him is everything like straight line. Let's just get him on a path and just go a lot of the stuff in space. You know, you can get him into space where he doesn't have to like quickly navigate through traffic and kind of pick his way through where you have to like gear up, gear down. That's that's really beneficial. So if you can get him going

in the screen game, draws, you know, anything where it's just like just take off and go. That's where you saw a lot of success with this player. I remember watching against Arkansas State. He hit a screenplay for a big game down the left sideline. Now, could he return kicks? Can he show that he's got some past game chops? You know, what is he as a blocker? He did all of these things at Central Arkansas, but now it's about trying to prove it in the NFL. You know, there was a player that I was like, okay, like, could he do what he most or did when he was coming out of Purdue here in Philadelphia in 2013? He ended up flashing, didn't make the Eagles 53-man roster where we know went on to have a long NFL career.

He's smaller than most it was, but I think it's that it's that idea, right? Where it's like, okay, like a smaller back with explosive juice, does he have the ability to just kind of, you know, show that he can prove it and then work his way up an NFL depth chart. That's the uphill battle here for Powell. Shout out of you for watching Central Arkansas versus Arkansas State. That's the Arkansas viewers are going to appreciate that. And speaking of Arkansas adjacent viewers,

award winning listener, I should say award winning listener, a loyal listener, devoted listener, Mitchell G, corrected me last week when I said that Central Arkansas is the sugar bears. The women's basketball team is the sugar bears. Okay. The rest of them,

the rest of the teams are just the bears. So only the women's or only the women's sports get sugar in front of them. of it. They are just the bears. So the central Arkansas bears, that is, that's where Schenjeric went to school. That is, that's a really strange delineation that I feel like I need to do a little bit more digging into. Yeah, but I just want to make that clear. I don't know if I feel totally comfortable with why that's the case, but, but I, I had said the sugar bears. I didn't, I appreciated, I, I appreciate Mitchell listening and, uh, no, they, they, they are the sugar

I think if they're going to do that, I think that every team. The sugar bears are all the ones. Yeah. I'm going to only call them the sugar bears. Yeah, be distinctive. Purple and white. I know that. That's the central Arkansas.

We're going to get to Montreal Johnson right after these messages. Let me tell everybody right now about our friends at Bet365 because this is the time of year when I'm watching more games, not necessarily for work, but for four. fun and maybe I have I don't know a Dodgers Marlins game on at 11 o'clock at night like I had the other night and Andy Pius is up the bat

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And now we'll hear from our friends at Ace Hardware Home Services, because you know, if you've been listening to this show for months now, then you know, like Ace is not just the home of the helpful hardware folks. It's also where you're going to be able to get the best hardware, home service that money can buy. And you might be asking yourself, oh, well, what am I going to get from Ace that I can't just get from like our local handyman? So what does Ace Hardware Home Services bring? Well, Ace, whenever they get ready for the next job, they remember what to bring. They bring experience. They're local plumbers and techs that handle everything from repairs and seasonal maintenance to installations and upgrades. They bring understanding. They listen to your goals. And the job

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Their teams live and serve in your community and are dedicated to keeping their neighbors comfortable in their home. You can visit Ace Hardware Home Services online at ACE Hardware Home Services.com to get you started on your next project. So just to call out here to a few great PHOI events we have coming up. First off, Tuesday night next week. I don't know how many spots we have left because last I checked there were only four

and they might have been taken since then. But France Film session, we're talking about the undrafted players. Fran's going to break down all these draftics. Film, you'll see why the Eagles took these players from someone who could be working as an Eagle Scout himself. So Franz Film session live from the PHLY studio. That's Tuesday night, 530 to 8 p.m. And then coming up on June 14th, okay, this is golf season for a lot of you.

Saturday, June 14th is the second annual P-H-L-Y Liberty Open, 2 p.m. shotgun start, which as I learned yesterday means everyone starts at the same time. That's an important thing to understand there. What was your interpretation of that definition of war? I did not know when I was afraid to bring it up. So Valley Brook Country Club. And look, this is an awesome event. get together with different diehards, get together with PHLY hosts and behind the scenes people.

So many people that make PHLY in all city run. That's the second annual PHLY Liberty Open. Make sure you check that out. And you can register on all-PHLY.com. Before we get to Montreal Johnson, who a little big college player who had a huge run against Miami, right? and so jumps out to me. But I just, I need to ask you this because this is, this consumed too much of my time this morning.

Where are you on real ID? Do you have a real ID yet? I don't have it yet. I'm going to be getting it soon. It's a sore subject in our house. And rightfully so, because it's, I would say like for you and I, this process is going to be much easier for the women in our life. it is extremely hard a lot harder exponentially more difficult to acquire a real ID which we can get into

all the reasons why this is it's like one of the many things that is wrong with the way we go about things in our society but yeah it's extremely difficult for Meg to be able to track down a real ID it was easier for her to get her passport renewed and like got that turned around faster than it was to get a real ID which insane like they're putting their everything is like oh get your real ID, get your real ID, get your real ID, and you can't get an appointment anywhere. There's all you have to go. There's only like three places in like, within an hour's drive that you can go to. It's nuts.

And unfortunately, Meg was unable to get it a couple weeks ago. So now I'm going to try and I got to go and find some documentation. It's easier for me to do it since, you know, again, because of all the different hoops to jump through. It's insane. It's insane. Yeah. So you put it well there.

You know, we've been seeing these messages. We, uh, we, uh, we hear. All right, you got a real ID. So, all right, I get all our documents together. This morning, drop, you know, I look it off. The place opens at 830, okay? Drop the kids off at the, or, you know, the kids get on the bus at, you know, 7.05 a.m. And we and I go to a 715 gym class together, okay?

Ends at 8. So, all right, we have more than enough time to get here. And I'm like, we're going to be there right away. We're going to be the first in line. We'll be in and out in 10 minutes. you'll be able to get on your work calls at 9. Like this is, this is, really, this is how I'm explaining it. We pull up to the Real ID Center in King of Prussia.

And I'm telling you, Fran, this was like the last scene in Field of Dreams. This was probably 200 people long. And I am befuddled by this, absolutely befuddled. And, like, you know, Emily has to get work. I have to start prepping for the show. You know, I told her this was going to be a quick process. Now I'm flummox. No.

And then I see there's different articles that people have been waiting four and a half hours in line for this. And I said, wait, I can just use my passport. So for the time being, I'm just going to use my passport. And then hopefully the lines die down. We can go at another time. But I'm with you. There needs to be, you know, if this is a necessity and I'm for, you know, I don't work in a government building every day.

I know if you work in a government building every day, you need this for travel. I'll just be able to use my passport. I don't have a lot of travel coming up, fortunately. It'd be different for the football season. But yeah, if this is a requirement, they need to figure out how to do this more efficiently. And the other thing, too, is the first time, like, you really feel old. Or I shouldn't say first time, I'd really feel old. But you can apply online if you got your first driver's license after 2000.

three, right? So, like, I got my driver's license in 2002, so I just missed the cut off there. And Emily was, is a little bit older than me. So she, you know, she got our driver's license before 2003 as well. So yeah, there needs to be a more efficient way to do this. If anyone in the chat has any suggestions for real ID, please let me know. Or don't, because I've seen a couple of the responses to the chat, which they can go pound sand about, you know, oh, there's no excuse for it there. I've reached this point. I think the majority of the people are in our camp about this. And yeah, I mean, Meg was at the King of Prussia one for, I think four hours.

And it was like she showed up. There was one piece of documentation where it was that like you needed this golden stamp. Like it wasn't, I think it was the marriage license. Like it didn't have the golden stamp. If it had a stamp, but not the golden one, then yeah, you had to go. And they didn't have anyone going through line to like make sure like, oh, yeah, is all this right? She waited and didn't. Oh, gosh.

Yeah, I mean, bad. And this was, yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, that would, that would infuriate me. But you know what does not infuriate me? That's watching Montreal Johnson run. Montreal Johnson here, who you have number seven on this list, upside, but fighting for NFL future. And this is a Florida gator who had a 71-yard touchdown against Miami.

If you go to Franz article, I'd link to the YouTube on that. he transferred to Florida, but you said to make a trade is athleticism and top end speed. So let's talk about Montreal Johnson here. Yeah, and there's nothing. When I say like the athleticism and top end speed, it's not like, wow, athleticism and top end speed, right? Like he ran 4-4-1.

That's a good time for a running back, but it's not like, oh, man, like this guy is a special, special athlete. It's more for the fact that this is a pretty well-built runner that also like has pretty good athleticism. So it's a good combination of like height, weight speed that gets you excited. He didn't, he wasn't put through the ringer from like a career touch standpoint. So there's plenty of touches left on his body, I would say. And I think you're just kind of, I would say it's like a Corey Clement kind of like build and skill set.

I liked Clement more at Wisconsin than what I saw from Johnson at Florida. This was a deeper running back class. And so it makes sense as to why a guy with his skill set would kind of fall. through the cracks and get undrafted. I've been hearing about him off the field for the last couple of years. I had some of his former Louisiana teammates telling me like, yeah, this is a guy to watch. And that was very early in his career before he transferred to Florida. I watched him work out Indianapolis because he was a combine invite.

I wasn't particularly moved about like the past game stuff that I saw there. I struggle seeing him carving out a role. I thought that Sundaric at least had the, or Shun Derek, I should say, had at least like that elite speed to on on film, that elite play speed where I was like, okay, that's a trait that can kind of separate them. But for both players, it'll be about, you know, what can you do on special teams? Can you show up as a blocker? Yeah, I thought he was just kind of average across the board.

Yeah, so he came over to Florida with Billy Napier, I believe. So someone there who obviously the coaching staff thought highly of. And then the last one in this category is upside, but fighting for NFL future. And if you're a Penn State fan watching the show, you'll know this. name and that is Lance Dixon. Talking about linebacker to Lance Dixon. Yeah, Lance Dixon, he's a Toledo now, but he started his career at Penn State. It was a five-star recruit out of high school, barely played there for two years, then transferred

to West Virginia. It's been a couple years there before landing with Toledo this final season. So I did not play with Quinyan Mitchell, but still comes from that Toledo program, 6-2-224. So he's a tall linebacker, but very, very lean. He's got 33-inch arm, so he's got good length for the position. tested fine at the pro day. Again, not like a special athletic profile. I would say that he looks more athletic on film than what the testing show, which is a little bit of a red flag on my end. But he could close from the backside. Like that that's where that athletic is my thought really showed is where it's like, okay, he's coming from the backside. There's a running. You imagine he's lined up on the left. It's a run to the right. And he's got he's unencumbered and is just running in the open field. And again, he can close and arrive there with bad intentions. There were times where he was like your classic like weak side linebacker. where it was running chase.

But then there were other times when they got in their base defense and he's down on the line of scrimmage and, you know, he can use his length up against tight ends in a traditional like Sam linebacker role. I didn't love him like playing downhill through contact. I didn't see a ton of pop on ball carriers. It was like a lot of drag down, like grab the running back and he's going to carry me forward for a couple yards as opposed to him having stopping power and driving the guy backwards.

He didn't create a ton of big plays over the course of his college career. So I think this is your five star kid, high pedigree with some athletic talent. and we'll see if he can put it together here in the summer. So, yeah, Lance Dixon, like you said there, he was a notable name when he went to Penn State, but three schools now. So there is some prospect, some prospect pedigree there, but certainly not the production that necessarily matches up with it.

You text me about two additional names today. That's Giles Jackson and Darius Cooper, two wide receivers who are late additions. So if you're watching this at the 51-minute mark of the show, and you read France piece and all p.hly.com. This is the first time you're getting Franz review of Giles Jackson and Darius Cooper. Yeah, he first, Giles Jackson will start with first from Washington, a sixth year senior. He's been on my sheet now for like five years because he first popped at Michigan as a true freshman back in 2020,

where he was all Big Ten as a return specialist. He did return duties out there for Michigan. And there was a lot of thought like this guy's going to end up being, you know, a quality receiver for this program and obviously didn't work out for him there. It kind of slipped through the cracks as other players came in and kind of usurped him in the receiving depth chart. So he ended up transferring to Washington spent the last couple of years out there with the Huskies. He is your like he's like an Alamede Zakias, right?

He's he's 5'8. He's got really small hands, really short arms. He's pretty dense. 190 pounds for 58 is a pretty thick build. The testing was solid. He's not a special athlete, not like a burner, but he's quicker than fast. never puts the ball in the ground, really confident hands catcher, really reliable hands catcher, I should say.

Not a lot of drops there. Solid route runner. He's not going to burn, you know, in terms of like yards after catch, not going to like wow you there. So this is, again, you're getting into like slot receiver. Can he be like what Britton Covey is? You know, we talked about earlier with Taylor Morin, like Giles Jackson's going to fit into that same kind of bucket where it's, you know, undersized, slot receiver, punt returner. What else can you do for us? Right.

can you cover kicks? You know, can you, can you help us as a blocker, you know, in the RPO game, you know, different things like that. So I think when you're looking at Jackson, that's what he brings. And then when you get to Darius Cooper, extremely, extremely productive at Tarleton State. I ended up just going through all of his targets this morning. The production speaks for itself. 511, 2.13, pretty good length.

So he's got solid size. The big thing was like the testing was solid. But, you know, he's not a, he's not a refined player, very limited route tree, only really lined up on the right side. And it was, it was like hitches, goes, slants, and screens. And that's it. Right. So you're talking about a very, very unrefined route runner. The speed was just okay.

Anytime he had to go up and play above the rim, it was just okay. Like, he's got solid size. But even at that level, didn't always win in those contested situations. Really good flashes of that body control and ball winning ability, but, you know, not to the level where It's like, oh, man, like he just dominated at that level of competition. Now, again, the production was outstanding, but I would point more towards, like, scheme and usage as opposed to, like, natural ability that's going to translate when you're looking there with Cooper. But, you know, again, I think it's a fine dart throw this.

This is a guy that had outstanding production, solid physical tools, and we'll see if he can contribute in camp. I like that. And then, as we said at the top of the show, there's some tryout players. And so I didn't prep you on this. but there's there's one player I just wanted to ask you about because he was a well-known college player. So I know you knew him coming into the draft here. And that's Kamen Rucker from North Carolina, who I think a lot of thought he was going to get drafted. I'm surprised he wasn't signed as an undrafted player.

He's coming as a tryout guy for rookie minicamp. What's your view on him and is he someone who can push through? Yeah, I think so. I mean, there are there are some really good flashes with this player. I thought that he had the ability to turn into like a good like sub package rusher in the NFL. I thought the run game was just okay. And past game stuff, even like the the past rush stuff, it was a lot of like, I'm just going to run by you. So a lot of the things that I said about, you know, like James Pierce Jr.

Like he, it was a lot of that he's that kind of rush or that high side rusher. But there were some good flashes of violence with him, whether it came like to, taking on a tight end or, you know, playing with a motor, delivering huge hits on quarterbacks. So I thought that there was enough there for me that that got me excited at the point. Okay, I'm going to give a backup grade to this player. It covers a lot of ground, sideline to sideline. We didn't get a full athletic profile with them.

But I spoke with members of that coaching staff during the pre-draft process. And they all liked him. You know, he takes a, he takes a, I remember speaking with him at the combine. I'm just talking about like pass rush plan and things like that. it was like, yeah, there are some players you talk with. And I know you can speak to this too, like, where you could tell it's a very like academic, like thoughtful approach to the game, right? Where it's like, it's very like process oriented.

And I was pretty impressed after talking with him. And so I talked with one of his coaches. It was after the combine. And he said, yeah, like, he does it a little too much where it's just like, man, like, just go out, go get the quarterback. Right. Don't like, don't worry about that stuff. Like you're, you're thinking too much about it.

Just go. You know, you use your, use your talent in that way. but the big thing is that he had like some eligibility issues this year where because he came back for a fifth year and like it was up in the air about whether or not he's going to be able to play and so the beginning of the season he couldn't he couldn't get out there finally they laid cut him loose and he ended up having I don't he had like one game where he had like three sacks that kind of he won like you know defensive player of the week you know all the different stuff and it was after that game I think it was the Minnesota game or the Virginia I think

it was a Virginia game so I watched it in November he initially was going to go to one of the All-Star games and then ended up not going. Again, didn't participate in the combine. So I think just missing out on the pre-draft process heard him. But I was shocked he didn't sign a contract after the draft. I thought that there was definitely ability there to be able to work with. And the fact that the Eagles didn't sign any undergraduate rookies at edge rusher stands out here too. So that's a player.

I'll be paying attention to. Also one quick anecdote, Nick Siriani before the final free season game. Okay. He tells all the players about the value of that final preseason game, especially for untrapped players, guys trying to make the team. An example that he uses is Austin Echler, from his time with the Chargers. And one of the players trying out for the Eagles is Wyatt Echler, a nickelback safety. I'm not sure how we would consider it from Wyoming.

So some interesting stories here. There's an Australian rugby player, I believe, who is trying out as well. So I will get the roster, the complete roster, probably around 1.45 tomorrow. I will get that roster. I'll tweet out the roster with all the names. Then I'll go back tomorrow afternoon, tomorrow night to post everyone who came. When we get to overtime, we're going to kind of discuss a bit of Brook Camp. But I just have one quick question for you regarding this.

Before we get to overtime, do you think Jihad Cambo? will be on the field, or do you think it's too soon right now to see Jihad Campbell tomorrow? I don't think, and I have no, I haven't talked to anybody about this, but I don't think he'll be on the field, just based off the conversations I had about Campbell and his health during the pre-draft process. Yeah, he had the surgery following the combine in March, so it would certainly seem that this will be too soon to see him. So probably the big draw at the rookie minicamp, well, Drew McCuba. but you know, Kyle McCord's going to be out there. This is really, this is like a passing camp more than anything else.

And there aren't really wide receivers or running backs. So it's Drew McCuba, Mack McWilliams, Kyle McCord will be guys paying attention. But honestly, just seeing the players in person. I want to ask you who you think I should have a close eye on in rookie mini camp during the 15, 20 minutes. I get the watch practice. And we are going to hear that answer in over time. Thanks for sticking with us here. And outstanding work is always, Julia.

You can't be in until after. Or if you're saying, you have to say it leading it, otherwise your audio gets cut off. I, wait, did I screw that up again? it's it's it's it's it's my fault i thought i say it and then it goes into it so i thought i say overtime uh i'm sorry you see bo's watch this down bo's like zach needs to get out of that whole seat um honestly i'm just i'm trying not to wally pit bow here right i'm trying to to everything i can do to accentuate beau i'm i'm i'm trying to do that you know it's important to me

that i look everyone has has has has different styles of hosting. I think when you're a host, you're trying to build up the other person instead of tearing them down, right? And so I'm trying to, but I'm trying to build up the host as well. So that would be Bo when he steps in here. So who should I be watching when we watch a camp? You know, I would be, me personally, Mac McWilliams is the guy I'd be most, I'd be most excited for just to just see him out there, you know, just seeing how he looks. But yeah, it's all the skill guys. You know, you want to be able to see, you want those guys to be able to stand out. when it's shorts and a t-shirt,

you're not going to get a ton out of the offensive linemen. You'll be able to see how athletic they are, but they're not going to be doing one-on-one drills or anything as far as I know. They usually don't. They're in rookie camp. So, yeah, I mean, I think those would be the names, right? Obviously, some of these undrafted free agent receivers,

you get eyes on them. Is there anyone that you're going in most excited about? Yeah, I mean, I want to see McCord, of course. Sure. But then probably I want to see the old line. in person, right? I want to see if Cameron Williams is playing guard or tackle, you know, and so they're obviously not playing 11 on 11 tomorrow, but you can kind of see by the types of sets he's

taken if he has guard or tackles. So that's something I just want to see where he's starting out. But honestly, just being back in the field, you know, smelling the grass, so to speak, that always excites me. You know, I think I'm embarrassed to say that it was yesterday night at like 920, and Emily's like, man, you need practice to start again. You're already restless, right? I'm like, it's been a day and a half of this.

But I am eager to get back on the field. You've been rolling here. You say you're going to Phillies game this weekend. are you going to get a chance to not watch film for one weekend here? Yeah, this is definitely where things slow down a little bit for me. So I'm watching film during the day when I'm here at the office. I'm going to have a, I'm going to have a 2026, like too early mock draft I'll put out. I can't wait.

I love those. So yeah, everyone loves those. I feel like a lot of them have already gone to market already. I was focused on these undrafted free agents because I felt like I wanted to try and beat rookie minicamp out with those. So I'll get that done. Yeah, outside of that, it's going to start honestly. After that, it'll be a lot of watching film for 2026 and doing my like team by team reports, like going back and rewatching and listening back to all the press conferences and all the post-draft content,

all the draft room exclusive stuff. So that's going to be a lot of my time now during the day, you know, moving forward over the next two, three months. That's awesome. If anyone is looking for something to do tomorrow night, Friday, May 2nd, I'm going to be at the Bucks County Book Fest. Okay. And so this is like a bar crawl where authors are there to speak. So it's a pretty cool event. I'm going to be speaking at two of these bars. On the schedule, you would see three. There's some scheduling things that I need to figure out. But I will be there at Artifact at 7 o'clock, 7 to 740. And I will be at the Hattery 8 to 840. And so I will move. from venue to venue. You can be there enjoying, you know, enjoying the scene, books and beers.

And I'm on panels with Mike Sealski and Dave Brown. So that's a cool event. So make sure everyone checks that out. And we will have all your updates from Rookie Minicamp. Tomorrow's show, once I confirm with them, you'll hear our friends and colleagues, Jamie Lynch and Rich Hoffman. I will join from Novacare.

I'll have that window open so the sun will be shining. I'll have my shady rays in hand for training camp. And we'll be back next week. And the best news about next week is some point later in the week. Bo Wolf will be back joining us. So can't wait for that. Fran, you're dominating as always. Julia, best head of production in the game.

This was fun. I will see you tomorrow from rookie minicamp for Fran Duffy, for Julia Hoff. I'm Zach Berman. Bo will say, as always, we love you. I will say we'll do better tomorrow. Thanks for watching.