PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles: How Howie Roseman set the Philadelphia Eagles up for a return to the Super Bowl

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

From Mekhi Becton and Zack Baun to Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean, it was a hell of an offseason for Howie Roseman in setting the Eagles up for their second trip to the Super Bowl in three seasons. But the talent of this roster extends beyond just this season, from drafting Jalen Carter and Nolan Smith to acquiring A.J. Brown in the first place. If he’s the best general manager in the NFL, this is a testament.Zach Berman and Bo Wulf highlight all the moves Roseman made along the way to set the Eagles up for another chance to lift the Lombardi trophy. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And welcome to the P.HLY Eagles podcast on a Tuesday afternoon presented by Bet365. Download the Bet365 app and use code PHLY 365 when you sign up. Whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365. We got the man himself. Zach Berman, Bo Wolf, a little remote, a little throwback pod on a Tuesday. Eagles quiet right now, Zach, what's the deal? When are we going to get to see these players and coaches again? Well, we'll see Nick Siriani on the screen at 315.

Nick Siriani will have his first availability of the week, so we'll be able to get any updates then and hear his perspective. I don't know if we'll see the players until a little later in the week. Now, I know the players were in, are in the facility today, perhaps not on the field. I know they had their logistics meeting today going over the travel and everything that's happening in New Orleans for them. So there are meetings today.

There's probably a lift. I think today is like what the Monday would be during the week. Yesterday was off. Today is a Monday. That means tomorrow would be potentially a day off for them, like their normal Tuesday. And then based on that, you'd be thinking Thursday, Friday, Saturday would be similar

to a Wednesday, Thursday, Friday during game week. We'll see. Nobody think of the plate of the beat. reporter. The plate or the beat reporter. Families. Yeah. They're going to have Saturday access when they're having these people travel and be

away from their families for nine, ten days. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's funny. I was talking about it. And then because we're going through the calendar. Emily Berman and like Mrs. McManus throwing batteries at the Eagles at the Eagles bus as they head to the airport.

No, she's looking at the calendar. She's like, wait, what's this? Indianaapolis. I was like, oh, yeah, that's a week and a half later. Like, literally the combine is a week and a half after we get home from the Super Bowl. So, yeah, but this is, this is fun. I'm eager to provide all the information. And I do want to say, look, this is Super Bowl season in Philly. This is what's on everyone's mind. But I did see in the chat a message about how great Fran's draft guide is. And we have to give that a shout out because it is awesome. I know we talked about on yesterday's show. I'm being a company man. Keep plugging this. I will plug this

every single day if I have to. Make sure you subscribe. You go to this often. And the great thing, too, is it's a living document. So we'll continue. I'll continue. I'll continue to update this as this goes on. I don't want to take any credit for Fran's work here. And of course, now is the time to become a diehard, 36-hour deal that those 36 hours are counting down. I believe 10 o'clock tonight is the deadline to get that fantastic deal. We saw somebody in the chat and this is their first episode as a paying diehard member. So we're happy to have that. And yes, this is a big opportunity for everybody to get in on the ground floor of the Fran Duffy rocket ship.

And by the way, there's a new episode of the PHLY draft show with Fran Duffy that's up on our YouTube page now and in the audio feed, previewing the Senior Bowl and reviewing the Shrine Bowl. and there's an article on LPNHLY.com with France Shrine Bowl All-Stars. So all good stuff there. Today's episode, Zach, the concede of the show, we're going to give Howie Roseman his flowers. And we're going to draft the moves that he has made that we think are most responsible for the Eagles being in the Super Bowl this year, but sort of differentiated from the 2022 roster.

And so drafting Jill and Hertz doesn't count for this. It's the moves that he made that set up them coming back to the Super Bowl two years later, but that it can still predate 2022 if that makes sense. Yes, that's fair. I have a list of 10. Now, I have 14. And my interpretation of it might be different than yours. All minor moves since 2022.

Mine are not. Okay. Yeah. So then we'll have some good conversation about this. And I'll also say when I went back and, you know, look, it's very clear. And I've been saying this, Howie had an awesome offseason this past year. He deserves enormous credit. You know, I had a tweet out and I have a story out later kind of going through this calendar year or this past offseason.

When I was going through the 2022 off season, I realized that and this is consistent with what Howley has said publicly in the past or in different conversations in the past that when he has his best seasons, they have their best season. because there were decisions last year that were not especially fruitful. And look, you're not going to hit on all of them, but certainly what he's done since the end of last season has helped propel the Eagles to us sitting here on January 28th talking about Super Bowl as opposed to talking about the draft. Now, Zach, knowing how you felt about the moves at the time, do you think the Eagles would be undefeated had they not signed Devante Parker? No, I don't think that had any, I don't think that had any bearing on anything. As I said at the time, it was a low-cost move. I believe you said this makes the Eagles the joke of the NFL. They should fold the franchise.

Jeffrey Lurie sold the team. Certainly did not say that. I think one that I was looking back on what I said in 2022. And I thought then that they would regret letting C.J. Garner Johnson leave. That was one that I looked at after, or I should say 2023, after the 2022 season, that I think the way they handled their debacks in 2023 was not now. I think some of it was out of their hands. I think their plan was to keep C.J. Garner Johnson and then he wanted more. That's been well documented.

But, yeah, the one I look at where I was probably most critical of that I felt like had the biggest implications was letting C.J. Garner Johnson. and go. And I feel strongly they shouldn't have done that. They rectified it. Well, I mean, it worked out. They got them for the right price anyway. That's true. That's a good point. Although, that season did happen last year. So yeah. Yeah. All right. Before we get into that, Zach, we do have to do the locker room report presented by our friends at Valley Forge. Winter weekend getaways and family friendly affordability await in Montgomery County. Get started planning that next getaway today at ValleyForge. work, make it family time, and make it Montko. Now, we have not been in the locker room, Zach,

but I do want to hear from you since we talked about it on yesterday's show. Are you hearing anything about Brandon Graham? Yeah, I heard Brandon Graham speak about it last night. And Brandon Graham was on his radio show in 94 WIP, and he said it's it's day by day at this point or he's taking it a day at a time. First, he said he's taking a game at a time. There's only one game left. He said, that he's taking it a day at a time. If I could be a Brandon Graham interpreter here, I think that the Eagles said to Brandon Graham before he went on the show, don't say you're playing.

Don't say you're playing. Brandon, you already ruined everything once before on this show this season. Please don't do it again. Yes, that was because Brandon, he's such like a nice guy, and he wants to be like a truth teller. It was like he was reading from a script. We're just taking it day by day, man. He's like,

You know, and then there's a follow-up question from Elliott Shore Parks about how he's feeling. And look, the doctor from Rothman yesterday was like, was spot on talking about the recovery from the injury and like keeping keeping that strong. But he said this has been the best recovery of any injury he's had or any of these big injuries. He said because it's upper body and sorry, my voice cracked there. He said it was he said because it's upper body. and he's like when it's the lower body injuries it affects so much of your life but the the upper body one he's he's been able to handle it it's just a matter of keeping those those muscles strong i've been hearing for a month from from different places like yeah don't roll this out don't roll this out like you know every time i wanted to see if someone would talk me off a ledge no one would talk me off a ledge it was more like we'll see and and sometimes you you'll hear like, oh, I wouldn't put that out there. That's, that's not happening.

But it was, it was always when I asked, hey, yeah, we'll see what happens. You know, I think two different people said it at one point, we had to get there first, right? And so it was always like, well, we have to get there first. It's within the realm of possibilities, but there are a lot of checkpoints to happen before they even get to him practicing. Yeah. I'm expecting Brandon Graham to play. That's just me. That's not based on someone saying he's going to play.

but I'm expecting Brandon Graham to play. Yeah. It would be so cool. And I'm getting the growing sense that this isn't his last game either. Really? But this is the thing. If they win, look, by no means, if you can play football, play for as long as you can. But there is a part of you that says, like, leave well enough alone.

Like, if you come back from an injury to play in the Super Bowl and you win the Super Bowl, that's a pretty good way to with a Brady there again. Yeah, that's a pretty good way to end the story. But we'll see. What an unbelievable thing. I mean, and it goes beyond the sentimentality of it, as we talked about. I mean, he was arguably the best player in the defense the first half of the season.

You know, Zach Bonn and Jalen Carter included it as well and Quigionne Mitchell. But he was playing at such a highlight. Like the game he went out, that Rams game, he was dominating that game. Yeah, you're right now. And like in the Shio Copadia, a good problem to have department. Nolan Smith has turned it on since then, has really turned into a productive player. But look, they need or they could use edge rushing death. I understand there's only one game left. The three-man rotations worked fine for them.

They won't be worse off having Brandon Graham on the roster for this game. All right. Well said, there you have it. the locker room report presented by our friends at Valley Forge. All right, Zach. Let's get to this Howie Roseman draft. Howie loves a draft. Let's give him a draft as a present as a way to give him his flowers.

Do you want to do a little rock paper, scissors to decide to go first here? Sure. Okay, two out of three. Two out of three. Ready? Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. You've got to put it in the camera, Zach.

You're not, what is that? Sorry, it was. You got to be careful with that. How do I do? Don't be lifting that. Don't be lifting that too high. You don't have to want me of that. Trust me.

Well, I'm nothing for me. Yeah, wait. So that was paper, okay. Yeah, so my scissors beat your paper. Yes. Ready. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Shoot.

Zach, look, what are you doing? You have to put it in front of the camera. I'm my both one paper. Yes. Ready? rock paper scissors shoot all right one to one

you ready yeah rock paper why is it timing so bad shoot okay we're still tied

a couple rocks this is this is I'm going to put it above the screen okay yeah that's what I'm saying you gotta put it right everybody can see it's like this is at eye level

for me okay okay Julia says This is the rest of the show. All right. The audio listeners must love this right now too. You're ready. Yep.

Rock. Rock. Paper. Scissors. Shoot. You got me. Okay. Did you go paper every single time?

I went rock the time. We went to the time. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You got me. All right, that'll do it for this episode. All right.

I'm going to go first. Yep. I've talked about this before. And this is the one that, well, I have a couple that predate 2022, but this is the one. And it's a little bit, it's a little bit cheating because it's two things in one, but you can't separate the two because of what it allowed them to do. To me, this goes back. The biggest reason the Eagles are in the Super Bowl is what Howie Roseman did in the

2021 off season acquiring first round draft capital. And so that is the Carson Wentz trade to the Colise. which eventually netted them a first round pick in 2022 and trading down from six to 12 with the Miami Dolphins, which netted them a first round pick in 2022. So it allowed them in 2022 to have three first round picks, one of which he used to acquire A.J. Brown and the other he used to get a first round pick the following year, which led to Jalen Carter. And the reason that to me, this is what it's all about is, you know, we talk about Howie Roseman.

He's not, his moves are not perfect, right? He's within the realm of reasonable expectations for hit rates, right? And so the first round picks that the Eagles have had over the past four years are pretty good. The ones that they have had for what they deserved in their draft spot, right? So Jordan Davis, okay, pretty good. DeVante Smith, very good. Nolan Smith at 30 or 31 or whatever was. Very good pick at that spot.

But this roster would not be in the shape that it is if they had just stuck to, you know, what their draft slots were. And the reason that even you could do a thing like Sequin Barclay, which we will get to, is because they had like two superstar tent pulls on the roster in A.J. Brown and J. Carter. Now, AJ Brown was on the 2022 team, so it's a little bit, a little bit not perfect for this exercise. But Jalen Carter is a player who the Eagles did not deserve to have, right, based on them coming off the Super Bowl. And it was all set up by, by those moves in 2021. And what I think Harvey Roseman is better at than the rest of the league is being able to work on multiple timelines.

You know, he will tell you that he's always trying to win the Super Bowl every year. There is no such thing as a rebuilding year in his mind, but he is also able to see the bigger picture. And if you were just thinking about the hit rates and the expected outcomes for what different resources are worth, he is more willing than others to sacrifice, to get the really prime time resources. And to me, that is the reason that the Eagles are in the Super Bowl most of all. Well said. Now, two follow-ups there.

first off tanking that Washington game proved to be so so beneficial for the future of the organization, right? And you'd think about teams like Las Vegas this year that won that final game. Yeah, it was a lot of outrage then, but think about how, think about where they are right now. And even if you think back to that that 2022 draft, right, when they had the three first round picks, listen like i think i think draft picks are uh are extremely valuable and i don't always love when it's it's you know you compare like what you would get for a player for a first round pick but if you had let's say like the the very best case scenario outcome for if they had kept those three picks let's say based on the range of guys they took guys in like let's say you

got kyle hamilton uh trent mcduffy and Tyler Smith, right? That would be a home run. You would be like, you would think about throwing a parade for those picks. And that's still not Jalen Carter and A.J. Brown, right? So, I don't know. So my second follow up to that is which trade did you like better, the Miami trade or the New Orleans trade?

Because there were different types of trades. And to me, the New Orleans trades, the one I like better. Yeah. I don't know that I would even, I would say that one was better than the other. They both were, they both made a lot of sense. Yeah. The New Orleans one was more obvious to do because they already had three drafts. They had three first round picks.

I think the Miami one was interesting in that they did it so early without knowing necessarily who might be on the board at six. And you're trading out of the top end, which is, which is always. And you're trading out of, you know, the range of Penae Sewell and Jemar Chase, right? Sure. However, it made sense. Then they were then able to move up for Giovante Smith. But you talk about not wanting to rebuild. To me, that was, you know, they entered 2021 with the expectation that it might be at least, you know, a one-year turnaround.

It's part of the reason that they moved on from Doug Peterson, right? And so I think, I think if you offer Harry Roseman like obvious value that is not taking into account the year, like that you're not discounting future years, he's going to take it. Yeah, I think the, it's clear when you look at where the Saints organization is right now and where the Eagles organization is right now, the benefit of, as you framed it, it's good expression for operating under multiple timelines, right? Like understanding that there's a world that exists beyond this season is a valuable way for a general manager to think. Now, there's some people who say that Howie has the benefit of thinking that way.

and I've always framed it, and I wrote this in stories. I wrote this in a book. What book? There's a commenter who says I plug the book too much, so I'm trying to be careful. But the franchise fell off. You plug that book right up. That commenters behind. Yeah, a curated history of the birds, which, by the way, is especially relevant during the next two weeks

because there's a lot in there on Andy Reid and Jeffrey Lurie's ownership and some of what Jeffrey might regret that that I think people would find interesting. But as I've written in there, and I feel strongly about this, is that how he doesn't, how he doesn't act that way because how he's not aggressive because he has job security, he has job security because he's aggressive. And that's the framing that I think is important. And Jeffrey has specifically said that if Howie operated differently, he would not be the GM. Right.

Like if Howie only thought about maximizing this year, I don't think Jeffrey would be as interested in Howley as Jeffery likes the strategic way how he approaches the roster. Do you want me to get into mine here? Should we do an ad break? But you do your first round pick and then we'll do the ads after that. And I should just specify, is Jalen Carter still available or is that, was that encompassed in the trade? I think I'm sort of looping him in, but I don't know if that's fair. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's fine. Clearly, drafting J. John Carter in the first round was a great move by them. You might say it was obvious. Eight teams did not think it was obvious or eight teams had their reasons not to do it. Well, I should say nine teams because the Cleveland Brown, I'm sorry, the Chicago Bears traded out of it, right? The Chicago Bears were sitting there. And I understand infrastructure is important, but there's sometimes when you just bet on talent. Do you know who that pick turned out to be, Zach?

Darnow, who, what? I know the Bears took Darnow. The Eagles trade up, the Eagles trade up from 10 to nine for one, one spot. Yeah, the bears take Darnall right. But the compensation for that one spot move up was a 2,024 fourth round pick. So it was, they moved up one spot and traded a future fourth. A 2024, fourth, oh, I'm sorry, 2024 fourth round pick. So someone on the Bears this year, or did they trade that pick?

The Bears kept it. The Bears kept it. So, was it Taylor and Borlini? No. Okay. I don't know if it was in it. Tori Taylor the punter. Tori Taylor the bow.

Okay. So the Eagles drafted a punter in the future to get Jalen Carter. The Bears were so excited because they're like, they just got this free pick. But I don't understand why they didn't just take the bet. Now, I've heard they didn't think they had the infrastructure in place for Jalen Carter. I don't know. Gamble talent. Right.

Their money don't make money. And I also like I believe that that maybe a little too much is made of the Georgia surrounding Jalen Carter being a necessity. Like I believe that the Eagles did think that they were as well suited as anybody to get the most out of Jalen Carter. But I'm sorry. I don't think that Jalen Carter was with the Bears that he wouldn't already be one of the best players in football. Yeah. I don't know.

Good point. I agree. Yeah. I think he was going to be good wherever he went, honestly. So I'll just put mine in here. I'll give it and we can continue the conversation after the ad break if we want. But obviously, signing Sequin Barclay is just an enormous return on investment as it is. The aggressiveness in going out and getting a player, I don't want to say thinking unconventionally because you know, like you're signing Sequin Berkeley.

but there's a thought, are they spending too much on a running back? It's against the way they have operated. He's a player with that type of workload worth doing, that type of deal on. And look, I know there's things out there saying he's the best free agent signing in NFL history. Drew Brees was really good. Reggie White was really good, right? But, I mean, Sequin Barkley is certainly high on that list. I mean, the sign an MVP candidate is enormously.

You certainly don't see that very often, number one. And then number two, he's just been such an outstanding fit in the locker. And one of the things, I was asking him questions about this throughout the offseason about how you go from being like the Facebook franchise somewhere else to trying to fit in somewhere else, to trying to be one of the guys. Like he's, we've used like the mercenary conversation when it comes. with the Cowboys guy signing here. But like Sequin wasn't just,

it's not just Hassan Redick signing with the Eagles, right? It's not Bryce up signing with Eagles. He was the franchise player with the Giants. He was the guy who said he wanted to be a giant for life and all of this. And then he goes and he signs with a place that has this established culture already. He doesn't have the sea on his chest when he comes here, like little things like that. And everything you hear behind the scenes is how well. he fits in how much he like has bought into being a teammate here.

And I'm not giving you like those anecdotes about him golfing with, you know, Kenny Pickett this offseason like there, that there is. I do hear about Bill Greer and Kenny. Yeah, exactly. And, and, you know, I've heard Lane Johnson say like golf was a way that he really immersed himself with the team. But just with the, with the relationships he's built with the offensive line.

with the other start players. The way he's been in that room, you talked to guys like Will Shipley about that. He's been, you knew he was a good player, but I think that he's been off the charts as a character addition to that locker room and that team as well. And the one thing you always hear with free agent signings

is you don't know how a guy's going to fit, right? You know, you always hear like, you'd rather pay on someone that you've lived with rather than the arranged marriage. and there's been absolutely no issue with that. It has literally been the opposite of signing to Marco Murray, which was the best comparison. They were signing a guy in the division who was a rushing leader in the NFL,

and you couldn't have had a worse locker room fit, and this has been seamless. All right. On the other side of this break, Zach, I will tell you why I would not have taken Sigmund with the next pick and why I also think that it's not necessarily as counter to Howie Rose M.O. as some people might think. That's a Colin Cowherty's. I like it.

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ice shakers. Quick look at the super chats that we have before we continue this draft. We have a comment from, as I pull it up here, Rob Milner, who says the Eagles have answered many off-season questions, but Jalen's ability, excuse me, to take over at the line of scrimmage from Jason Kelsey cannot be understated. I think that's fair. It was a huge talking point in the summer. And there were a couple times this season where it flared up a little bit.

And we talked about it with Fran. But I think there's no doubt that Jalen has done well in that capacity. Adam P. says love and respect Howie. But at what point do we give Big Dom some credit for the way the Eagles are run? He seems to do a lot behind the scenes. Zach, I'll let you take this one. Yeah, Dom DeSandra is extraordinarily valuable in his role, not just as director of team security or where I should say, vice president of

of team security, but he has a wonderful sense of, or I should say wonderful sense of, he has a good sense of people from what I understand. He can, you know, get to the heart of a matter when figuring out if they should bring a player in, if they shouldn't. He's a sounding board for a lot of players. When people think of VP of team security or team security guy, you think of like the fixer, so to speak. And he does more than that. You know, he, there's a lot that he does, uh, uh, in terms of like dealing with players who have, um, you know, different issues behind the scenes, personal issues. He's, he's, uh, he's someone who they trust. He's a valuable sounding board. He's, he's, he's respected as all could be in that building. Um, but I, I will also

say, and, and like, this is this, I think Don DeSandra probably gets an appropriate amount of credit, right? Like, I've said this in the sense that the biggest change I've seen in my time covering team has been Dom's stardom, like, from the time I joined the beat when it was like, who is that guy? And now players wear a shirt. He's, he's on TV. There was a Sixers game last year where, like, they introduced Dom as the celebrity, right? It used to be that Dom was sitting next or sitting behind the guy they were introducing. You know, I can't tell you when I was at they inquire how many messages I would get from from readers asking like who's that guy walking with Andy? Who's that guy walking with Chip? And, you know, Jeff McClain did an outstanding story

on, on, on, on, on, on, certainly the, the 49ers game last year brought a big spotlight on on to him. He's, he's come up in a lot of reports. I had a story last week about Dary Slay, where Slay said he came back at Dom's urging when Corey Clement or. I talked about how Dom vowed for Corey Clement in the draft room. He's someone, he knew Corey. Dom knows everybody. If there's any like former player or anyone in the city who needs something, it's just called Dom, called Dom.

He is like he's the ultimate, I got a guy guy. You know, he's, he's like everybody's guy. And he's one of those people who like everyone's best friends with Dom. And it's a credit to Dom. But I think that's become like he's become a almost like an icon in Philly during the past few years. Yeah, actually, I don't know that even I would have said that he gets the right amount of credit because I think there are a lot of things that he does that we don't know about. And I'm beyond the security stuff just in terms of like managing the locker room and like anything that's going on there or whether that's tension between. between players or tensions between players and the coaching staff or the front office.

Like, you know, I think Dom was a huge part of that. And as you wrote about it in Adairia Slay story, Zach, like he's making, like, he's making transactions happen. Yeah. Because he's the guy people trust, right? And that's so important because, look, in any business, and whether it's professional football, media, people watching, there can always be like a certain amount of, of, trust or or like

tension between you know labor and management right that's that's that's like an age old thing and it in any business and and dom is somebody who seems to transcend that in that he's like he works for Jeffrey and howie uh in or he works for Jeffrey right works works with howie but he's he's the player's guy too and I think that is that is so important is that I think in that locker room he's not viewed as like

this is he's he's here for Jeffrey he's here for Howie he's here for Nick like Dom's their guy and that is I can't overstate how important that is all right my next pick which I would have had one spot ahead of sake one for

the Eagles being where they are now is Howie's ability to deliver Vic Fangio as the Eagles defensive coordinator and I think this is this is multi-fold because it's not just you're getting Vic Fangio to run the defense. You're also putting in the infrastructure and the eyes to get a guy like Zach Bond in the right spot and get the most out of him to get the most out of Cooper DeGine and Quinion Mitchell.

You know, a bunch of guys who I'm sure we're going to talk about. I think Vic Fangio deserves a lot of credit for putting them in the right spot and also, you know, just improving the defense. I mean, the rise from 29th to first is unprecedented and insane. And this is absolutely a Howie making, right? And he's just like he's rectifying the C.J. Garner Johnson signing. He's rectifying not getting Fanjo the offseason prior. And I'll tell you why I give Howie a special credit for a special, special, special credit for this.

as opposed to Sequin when it comes to going against type for him. Because with Sequin, yes, they had not payday running back, but we know that they have gone after stars many times before, right? Saquan was in their mind a star. And the roster was in such a position that, you know, they needed to find an extra edge rusher. They did that. You know, they got their bright stuff.

But if you wanted a star, there weren't a lot. of other places to look. And that goes back to the same conversation from before about AJ Brown and Jalen Carter. Like without those moves, you don't sign Sequin Berkeley because you're going to have some need elsewhere. And so, yes, like they hadn't paid a running back in for agency a ton, but they floated with stars before. This is this was not completely unprecedented. What is completely unprecedented in terms of like the way that Harry Roseman wants a team built is the thing that we talked to him about in the summer about like the defensive line rotation. And Howie Roseman being willing to hand over the reins to Vic Fangio on that front

being like, you know, listen, this is the way that I have done it forever. And I'm willing to take a back seat because this is how Vic Fangio wants to do it. And now all of a sudden you got Jalen Carter playing like every snap in the second half of the season. It's insane and it's paying off in an incredible way. And so I'm giving Howie extra credit for not only delivering Fangio, but getting out of the way and letting Fangio do what he wants to do and run the defense the way that he runs it. Yeah, that's a great point. And look, they've clearly been enamored with the Fangio scheme, right?

That was part of the draw of Gannon, even though Gannon did not work directly for, like, did not work directly for Vic. And he, there was the, you know, obviously bringing in Sean to side, like, you know, they, how it was interested in this. So the way they're using the players and even the construction of the roster to an extent is different. But, but the scheme itself is one they've been enamored with.

But to your point, and I've, I've stolen your line throughout the year that Howie, oh, I'm sorry, that Vic was going to raise the floor, certainly, but what's wrong about that. What he would do for the ceiling?

No, but I'm saying, like the ceiling you know i don't know if anyone i don't know of internally they ever envisioned the number one defense in the nfl uh and i've said this dom is the star of that oh i'm sorry not dom i see vick is the star of that defense like vick is you know john me jellon carter's outstanding exact bonds with a defensive player at the year kind of date but if if you said to me what's the one reason why they have the number one defense in the nfl i'd probably say vangio yeah yeah i totally but

I don't mean to be like, like, by use, because in, in your answer, you're like, it's also part of like why Zach Bonn is flourished by Quinn. Well, yeah. You get. No, no, no, no. We will draft those things.

I was like, but I don't think that. It's just like how he's trades. This is different. This is just, but, but like I don't think that Zach Bond, the signing of Zach Bond, is as much of a home run.

If they have any other defensive coordinator in football. Yeah. And that's that's a good point because so for for mine I was debating here between Bonn and the player I will give it. I'll give this player because with with Bonn, I need to dock them some points because this wasn't the intention, right? And we'll get to that. Like it worked out great. You give them, they made the signing, but the intention wasn't for Zach Bond to become the best linebacker in football or one of the best linebackers in football. But so I'll do this. Quignan Mitchell. in the first round, I need to give them credit for because, first off, it wasn't an obvious pick in that when the first cornerback is coming off the board at 21, you know, in the 20s, 22, you're not, by definition, like, you think he's the best corner in the draft, but it's not unanimous that he's the best cornerback in the draft.

When the first cornerback comes off at that point in the draft, it's clear that the league doesn't value this cornerback. rap class the way they have historically in the past top corners have gone in the top 10 right so he was probably not viewed at the level of well certain and j c horn and um stangley and sauce gardner and you go on down the list of all these guys have been taken in the top half he's been outstanding and he's been better than i expected i i understood why they took mitchell i like tearing and arnold in the draft because of the pedigree, the different styles of play, the age profile. But Quignan's been a bona fide number one cornerback for them. They get that when they did in the draft.

When you add in the fact, too, that this is a position they haven't been able to draft well. You know, they haven't been able to draft well overall with it. And it changes your future outlook that you have a guy like Quignan. Mitchell. So he's been great this year. And you look at this defense going forward and the way you can allocate resources. I talked about this. If you're not paying your top corner $20 million, what does that do for the rest of your cap allocation? And he, I mean, barring injury, he's going to get better. He's another guy who he's wired the right way. So yeah, I give them so much credit.

I actually had Quinyan next as well. I was going to frame it a little bit differently in that to me it was the patience to sit there and let Quinyan Mitchell come to them because we talked about after the draft. We thought that this was the best that Howie had ever maneuvered the board in his draft history. And usually he wants to go up in that first round. And by waiting and letting Quignon come to him, that then. set up then being able to move up for Cooper dejean in the second round then you move down in the third round you pick up the future third you get you know you get Jelix hunt and and I'm sure those guys will come up as well but to me it all started with night one the patience there which which was

a little bit atypical and then obviously nailing the selection yeah I mean the scouting report I mean credit to the scouts too right when you're drafting someone from Toledo you need to have good intel. And look, Nick Siriani's college roommate was Jason Candle. So that certainly helps. But you're not just taking the head coach's endorsement too. Like you have people on the ground. You're meeting with them at the Senior Bowl,

at the Combine. And they knock that out of the park, out of the park. But yeah, I thought they were going to draft an offensive lineman. Howie in the past has like you said, he's wanted to trade up to have that certainty. Like, all right,

this is the guy we let's say the guy, Troy Faltonu or let's say the guys Ameris Mims or you know you you pick it's it's like we're going to ensure we get him and they were able to do that in the second round this year like you said but they didn't have to do that in the first round because of the way how we navigated the board

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And Zach, with my next selection for the move or moves that Howie Roseman made to best set the Eagles up for a return to the Super Bowl two years after going in 2022. I am going with the double barrel wide receiver extensions this off season. So signing Devante Smith and A.J. Brown paying them up front. And to me, this set the stage for the offense to be able to become a run first, Sequin Barclay offense without there being locker room acrimony. And I think A.J. Brown and Devante Smith, obviously,

would both like the ball as much as possible. But part of the reason for that is to then get rewarded. And if you reward them on the front end, at least the first year, I think there is a little bit less of an impetus on them to need the ball right away. You're correct. this, this had ramifications, or I guess benefits in that regard. And they were able to play this way.

They were to keep those guys happy or have that those guys weren't playing for contracts. And then the other side of it too, yeah, the Eagles got ahead of it. Like you saw that you knew you had to pay Devante Smith. You knew you had to resign AJ Brown at some point. They could have waited. They could have done what Dallas did and waited. They could be in Cincinnati spot here where. where T. Higgins is going to get, you know, he's, he's already been tagged.

He's going to hit the market again or they're going to have to pay him a lot more. Jamar Chase is going to break the bank. Like these are guys the Eagles knew they needed to keep. And by acting quickly, they were able to get them on deals that the players were happy with. And then those deals were quickly, it's the first mover advantage. And they've done this time and time again. And I don't understand why more teams don't act this way. there you go all right tell you do it for the ace hardware temperature check

devante smith and a j brown getting that money and keeping the temperatures nice and cool in the eagles locker room you know what to move this conversation along i'm not going to go with the coop of the gene pick um i kind of pat what we we put that into uh the other one i've already started talking about it so i'll go with the cooper the gene pick here okay interesting the gene over over bond no no no no you know what oh actually i got to go with bond sorry because we we I went out of order I thought I have I've gone higher I'm going to go Zach Bond and Zach Bond's being docked a bit here because it's him it was him in Quignon Mitchell I went Quignon because the intention was for Quignon to be great the intention wasn't

for Zach Bond to be great but the result has been in for Zach Bond to be great and you know if you think back to I mean Vic Fangio we'll give him credit again the first Vic Fangio press conference I asked somebody thought of linebacker and I thought he misspoke when the first name he mentioned was Zach Bond. I was like, I thought it was like when I asked Doug Peterson about the guard situation one year, you know, in 2016. And he's like, well, we have Jason Peters and Jason Kelsey. And I'm like, I'm like, what? You know, he was just naming offensive linemen. Because he, I mean, Vic Fangio meant it when he meant when he said Zach Bonn. We just didn't know at the time. And he said Zach Bonn ahead of Devin White. And at the, when they signed Devin White,

I thought Devin White was going to be the top linebacker this year with Nicopee Dean. And Zach Bond's been that really going back to the first minicam practice we saw it was Zach Bonn. And it's been pull to pull in that regard. So one of the more, I mean one of the most unlikely seasons that I can't imagine I will ever see a more unlikely season. Yeah, defensive player of the year candidate, the best Eagles linebacker in terms of the way he's played that I have seen in my time covering the team. so that's 13 years. He's just been at a different level. He is versatile.

He's tough. He's athletic. He's smart. And the way he has a nose for the ball, they can use him in so many different ways that it allows Big Fangio to be more creative. Yeah, I mean, he's been awesome. And we've all known the story by now.

The Eagle signed him to be a backup edge rusher, special teams guy. Vic Van Joe saw the tape and said he's an inside backer. Bobby King had scouted him out of college as an inside backer. And he's like a transcendent inside backer in terms of the way he plays. Amen. All right. I'm going with another non-transaction for Hallie Roseman here.

And that is going all the way back to that, oh, that famous snowstorm of 2024 early in the year. And that is Howie Roseman reportedly. being the one to, as Zach would say, pound the table for Jeffrey Lurie to keep Nick Siriani, knowing that they have a good working relationship. And it's the Nick conversation that we had a little bit yesterday about how he's the right coach for this specific team. If you have the league's most talented roster, you need a guy who's going to get the most out of those guys. Make sure that they're always ready to play. It wasn't always perfect, but it has been.

and I think Howie, it's not that Howie gets credit for Nick, but I think, I think Howie was preaching patience on that front. And I'm going to give him, I'm going to give him some credit there. Yeah, and look, Howie and Jeffrey, it's ultimately Jeffrey's decision. But, yeah, I mean, I do think Howie had had Nick's back, number one. And number two, I've compared the Eagles to more of a baseball structure than a traditional football structure in that the GM, you know, president of baseball operations or football operations, however you want to frame it.

Like he has, he has more, you know, he has the juice in the organization, right? And what you look for in the manager in baseball is, is how does he manage the clubhouse, right? Like, that's such an important thing because a lot of the approach for managing the game is, is managed top down, right? And not to say that Nick isn't, I mean, Nick's making the end game decisions. but like they you know whether it's the coaching staff whether it's the approach um there's there's there's a lot of voices involved and i think part of being the eagles coach is accepting that is accepting that your coaching staff there's there's there's there's going to be uh contributions from above you in terms of putting that together and that uh the way you have to operate um from a game management perspective there's

there's at least going to be input there, right? But the most important thing is how does the coach set the culture? And how does it in baseball is how does the manager set the culture of the clubhouse? And so it's kind of been consistent with that. And the GM and the coach need to have alignment. That's a popular term this time of year. I actually think I'll give credit to Jake Rosenberg, who used to work in the Eagles front office. He had a good tweet that said, like, there's too much attention paid to.

the relationship between the GM, you know, that these people have that pre-existing relationships. He's like, you can build that relationship. It's the alignment that matters more. You're like philosophically aligned rather than just hiring someone that you know. And- Or have the same agent to ask. Yeah, exactly. As, as Kaylon Coward had an outstanding story in terms of the package deal from Kalen from ESPN, I should say. So yeah, I think the alignment between the two of them has been spot on this year. Do you think we're, uh, It's hard to, like from a salary cap standpoint, like that's a big part of it, right? The way that the Eagles do their salary cap to be able to make moves like the Sake-Bon-Barkley thing.

But it's not new. And so that's why I have not included that here because this is how they've been running things for a bit longer time. Yeah, no, that's not new. It's just more pronounced when you view it in comparison to the rest of the league. Yeah. All right. What's your next pick? So I'm going to go to CJ Gardner Johnson here.

I'm being more literal with my way. You were going to go to Jeanne again. I was going to go to Gene again. Yeah, because I don't think you're going to go to Gene the next pick, so I'll circle back to my DeGine point. If not, I will buttress it with some other supporting points there. But CJ Gardner Johnson, you rectified in there. I'm not saying CJ is like the best safety in the league,

but there is a difference with CJ on the field. You saw it when he was ejected in that Washington game. He does bring the ball hawking ability. He brings versatility. He hasn't been a flawless player this year. Like there have been errors. But I do think he's someone who has a respected voice in that locker room. He's someone who brings a style of play and just relative security.

I know he's missed some plays early on this year. But they're better when they have CJ Gunner Johnson on the field. Safety was an issue for them last year. he's he's he's he's he's been a major upgrade and then the other thing i'll point out too is i saw this clip on social media i don't know if it was a fan clip um but cj and nick seriani embracing and like cj looked i don't know if he was in tears i don't know if you saw this clip like they they were they were hugging yeah and it was it was good you know cj i've retweeted it um but like you see how much this how much he cares like how much this matters cj and that's that's that's apparent in

conversations in that in that building that I've had like about when I ask people about CJ like how how much he he loves like playing football how much of how much of how much of this the signing of the success to you is about the on field play and how much is like the the juice that he brings and them talking about they they were missing some toughness at the end of the last season I don't think you can separate the two but I think you first have to look at the on field play because safety was a major problem last year and i didn't quite know how they were going to address it and i mean i mean in my um offseason guide if i were hallie roseman i said if they can get cj garnet johnson they should do i mentioned i mentioned like jordan four as like

safeties out there that i liked and i was like if they're your boy yeah but i actually didn't like jeremy chin in the way they were going to play safety right when they when they hired fan gio i was like this probably doesn't work as well. I'd like Shin more as a player than as a fit in the Eagles. I didn't know if they could let bygones be bygones, right? And I said if you can get past that, CJ makes a lot of sense in this scheme. And he's been, so the on-field part of it has been huge.

I think the toughness in the swagger is beneficial, but I think the upgrade that he's been at safety compared to what they had last year has been the biggest difference. All right, I will, I could go Dijin here, but I'll let you, I'll let you do Dijin. I'm going to go back to 2022. And by the way, let me thank everybody for watching on Fast and let you know that you can check out the rest of this episode on AllPHLY.com. I'm going with the foresight here to draft Jason Kelsey's replacement in the second round and have that plan in place. You want to talk about something that is absolutely bread and butter.

Howie Roseman, like one of the more Howie Roseman moves you can think of would be planning for the successor of an offensive lineman ahead of time with an early round pick. This is paint by numbers, Howie, but it obviously worked out very well. And Cam Juergens proved to be a quite suitable replacement for Jason Kelsey as the Eagles turned the page. Yeah, you're absolutely right. That's a good one. It's not on my list.

I should have put it on the list. I was thinking about moves since 2022. We had a call about the rules for this draft, and I said it didn't have to happen. I know, but I was because, like, you can go back to hiring Howie Roseman. If you're going to go back to, so, like, it is. But the idea was the differences between 2022, 24, but the moves could predate. Yeah. No, I know what you said.

I put it. You just. it didn't internalize it. So I was talking about this on the all NFL show yesterday, on the All-City NFL show yesterday. And I was talking about the succession plans that he has in place. And I think when these are done, a lot of it is like we, the media kind of portrays it else.

He gets to learn under Jason Kelsey or John Carter and Jordan Davis gets to learn under Fletcher Cox. And certainly that's a big benefit too. but I think what the part of it that should not be overstated is that it it just allows you from a planning perspective. It gives you such a better approach from a planning perspective when you don't need to go fill that need. You don't need to say, all right, who are the centers available in free agency? Who are the centers available in the draft? You get ahead of it. You have like the rainy day fun.

Like, you know, I've heard Howie say all the time, you know, I've heard how he say so many times. You know, I say this about Nick where I can like finish his stories. In certain sense, I can finish Howie Roseman sentences sometimes. Like, don't make that a drop, okay? Calm decisions. There's way worse things. Calm decisions and calm times. Calm decisions and calm times, right?

And so when you have your replacement in the building, you're not forced to go make an emergency, you know, I'll pick a guy around too high or sign a guy to more money because you need to fix it. So I think that's, that's, that's the other benefit there is proper planning is so beneficial. And it goes to your point earlier about operating under multiple time lines. Okay. I want to do one. Well, let's do, we'll get to 12. So you do one more, you do two more picks.

I'll do one more pick. Yeah. So I'm going to go Cooper to Gene here, because I'm going to use this. as a vehicle for discussing something I've noticed with Howie and that I think is a, obviously Cooper de Gene itself was a really good pick. And it's not a coincidence that defense has been significantly better since he's entered the lineup. You know, he entered after the by week. It's been night and day since the buy week and perceived that as a knock on Avanti Manix.

I think it's more of a credit to Cooper de Gene. The athleticism that he brings, the physicality that he brings, the size that he brings, the versatility. he's just a different player than Avanti Maddox. He's bigger. He's more athletic. He's younger. And you've seen the benefit there.

But so, and he's clearly, we have behind the scenes footage that shows us. Jeffrey Lurie said, like, the night before he went to sleep saying they have to go get Cooper the Gene. Cooper the Gene was standing out on their board. They were aggressive in doing it. Well, and frankly, you wonder, you know, we have talked about and written about how he sometimes doing Jeffrey's bidding is a little bit of an unfair way to say it but like his job like Jeffrey is the person who it's his job to impress and so you know if Jeffrey was enamored of Cooper de Gene that's part of that's part of the calculation yeah good good point um but I I like the so the approach that I'm I'm talking about here is uh if you see the the commanders behind the scene means, you know, the Eagles were, they were like haggling over these late picks to include which one.

And the Eagles are driving a hard bargain. And if you look at the trade chart, the Eagles lost, they technically lost that trade to the commanders. But you get the player. But I think what stands out is when you see the way the Eagles navigated day three of the draft, and I would watch how the Eagles do this going forward, is you can always collect picks later. Right? like to me there's such a difference early in the draft between the player you have you know if you're drafting in the teens you're drafting a top 50 pick like there's such a difference

between getting those players you have in the top 50 or top 30 however you want to frame it then later on in the draft when there's a lot more subjectivity on boards and I think um like the Eagles were able to trade back multiple times, still take six players this year, and get third round pick, fourth round pick, fifth round pick in 2025. I think there's always trade back opportunities later. I think that if you have to give up that extra sixth or that extra fourth, I mean, a fourth valuable. But my point is that you can trade back 10 spots to pick up a later pick later in the draft.

if you can secure a guy that you have as a first round talent in the second round, go do it. And also, Howie's track record in second rounds has been really impressive. When you look at Zach Gertz and Landon Dickerson and, you know, obviously Cooper the Gene, I had this the other day. Vinnie Curry. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, they've had a lot of success. Yeah, Dallas Goddard. They've had a lot of success in the second.

round of the draft. And I would be aggressive trying to, you know, that's why I didn't love as much like trading back for the Tyler Steen, Sidney Brown combo. And that might turn out well. I would rather move up in the second round and lock in someone who is slipping rather than then trade back. You know, Cam Juergens was the second round pit too. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that I totally agree with that, but I do think that this is also part of the conversation of what I was talking about with staying patient for Quinyan set them up to be able to do this. And that was obviously the double dip that has worked out very well. Sure.

All right, I'll give you my last pick because I know that we want to see Nick Siriani in about 10 minutes. I would, like, I think Nolan Smith is a more important player, no doubt about it. But that move was less out of the ordinary for me or worth celebrating than, like, I think Mackay-Becton has been really good this year. and it's not that like signing mcky beckton was was such a coup it's that it was a good example of always having a backup plan for the for for for harry roseman because they wanted to draft an offensive lineman early and they didn't and so the day after the draft was over they had ready to go we're going to sign macky beckton uh obviously you know once upon a time first round caliber talent and we're going to bring him into stateland university and and and and and and see how it works. Maybe it'll be as a tackle. Maybe it'll be as a guard. We talked about it was pretty clear that they didn't have full faith in Tyler Steen this offseason. And so all of a sudden, you've got a plan B, and it worked out very well. He has been huge for the running game, no doubt about it. And whether or not he comes back, we'll see. Maybe he's a compic boon for them.

But I think that was a good example of always having multiple plans of attack for addressing the things that they need to address. Well said. Good point about how a strategy there. And look, last year, those lottery ticket signings didn't work as well this year paid off in a big way. So I'll, you mentioned Nolan Smith. That's, that's an obvious one. But I'll mention another one here that's on my list just to get it in.

Similar to your point about the wide receiver extensions, the offensive line extensions. Getting ahead of Landon Dickerson, getting ahead of Jordan Maillata. like if Landon Diggerson was going to be a free agent this offseason, just imagine what he would get paid. And, you know, Jordan Milata, he keeps getting better. And I think there's something to acting quickly. And, you know, the strength of the Eagles, it's the line of scrimmage. And to know that you have two pro bowl, well, I guess Jordan's not a pro bowler,

but a pro-bow guard and then all-pro caliber tackle locked up for, you know, as you move forward here, good strategic move by Howie doing it and, you know, keeps both and keeps both those guys happy. All right. Let's close it out with a couple super chats before we bounce on out of here, Zachary B. We've got Chill Bill who says, does die hard come with the code for Zach's only fans? I don't know how to answer this. I hope you are fans of all of us here at all p.hly.com. Not only a fan of me, but we have a lot of, we have, make sure you check out.

Les Bowen has a nice column up right now. You can check out Les's piece. And I mentioned friends, all of France's work. I had two stories yesterday. I have another story coming up later day or tomorrow morning. and that's not even to mention our Sixers coverage and our Flyers coverage and Jim Salisbury on the Phillies. So, yeah, please be a diehard. So you're not going to give away that password then?

I don't have a password. Chase Daniel Plainview says, where does Howie publicly whining about Brandon Brown and Ian Cunningham being hired before the draft rank? The front office hasn't been poached since. Yeah. Yeah, he did one about that. And it's been paying attention. Yeah, yeah.

But that is a minion, if I've ever heard one. He likes your, he's a sicko and a minion all out one. It has nothing to do with me. That's a, that's a highway thing. True, true, true. By the way. Do you deny that that happened? No, he did, he, he did complain about it.

I thought that was weak. So real quick, Kell Moore had what sounded like a long interview last night with the New Orleans Saints. I thought this was very funny, by the way, like all of us, sudden a bunch of people a bunch of like official things are tweeting at like eight o'clock this morning like the saints completed their interview with killin more overnight as if this was like oh they went home together on their date last night like let's get get this the new orleans saints slept over at kellen moore's house last night yeah i mean they made the point they they flew up here to do it in person and all that yeah um but as californ has bedded the new

Orleans Saints. This is this is not my line or joke. I think I saw this Mike Mulher and credit to Mike. Always enjoyed working with Mike at NBC Sports Philly. But there is like some symmetry here where the coordinator stays in the city where the youth where you have the Super Bowl. Oh yeah. That's right. Like after the game, Cowan stays in New Orleans to be announced as the Saints coach. Yeah, similar to Gannon in Arizona. So the only opening left. right well actually colt's job was technically open at the time too is this the only one left now yeah this is the only job left yeah okay we'll see if they continue to to sleep around or not uh by the way i do think that it's it's like we'll see maybe

maybe keller more gets that saint's job but you would think that a little bit less turnover this time around for the eagles even even front office wise to yeah cdp's point about uh about losing and Brandon Brown and Ian Cunningham. Michael Nittikin, nit the tickman, Nittickman says, underrated is how C.J. Garner Johnson feels much less like a loose cannon this year,

making big plays and bringing juice, but not necessarily all over the place, Washington game notwithstanding. Yeah, good point. You know, he's been, yeah, he's been, that signing's worked out well. I had the chance for volatility,

but it's worked out well. Okay. Yes, we'll get to work on drawing a cartoon of Kellynne Moore in bed smoking a cigarette next to a Florida Lee, and then get going. Sure. Sure. Zach's nervous and anxious because the Nick Serbiani press conference starts in about two minutes.

So we're going to end this bad boy. Make sure that you become a diehard. This is the time. 36 hours, $36 for the year. that time is running out. So if you care it all about the draft, this is a no-brainer. If you care it all about Zach Berman's well-being and you want him to get some sleep, this is a no-brainer.

And also make sure that you are liking the videos, commenting on the videos, subscribing, thumbs up, all that good stuff, and go to the store at the store at all-city.com because we got great deals there too. All kinds of stuff when the Eagles go to the Super Bowl. Yeah, make sure, like you said, that all the store for sure we got good deals good shirts but uh make sure like both said you're liking and subscribing i think there were 38 comments yesterday let's let's beat that today let's i thought this was a really good show um let's uh let's reward the show with some good comments

yeah i mean so far the commenters would say the best show all year was that one that you didn't like so true oh hopefully we can all agree that i like that we like this one today uh and last thing is that question from the chat are you is Zach Mormon. I am not Mormon. No. I don't know where that's coming from. But respect Mormons.

But no, I am not Mormon. Respect Mormons. All right. Let's get that. Let's get that put on a t-shirt on all city.com. Respect Mormons. Quote Zach Berman. Thank you very much.

For all of us here at PHLY, we thank you for watching and listening. We're back tomorrow, 2 o'clock. As the Super Bowl approaches, for all of us we thank you for watching and listening we'll talk you later and as always we love you