PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Brian Thomas, Xavier Worthy and the Philadelphia Eagles’ WR options in the NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

The Eagles could absolutely use another weapon in the passing game alongside A.J. Brown and DeVonta Smith. Would a surprise first-round pick on someone like LSU’s Brian Thomas Jr. make sense? What about the options on day 2? Princeton wide receivers coach Brian Flinn joins the show to break down the prospects who might make sense and why there’s a receiver in the class he likes more than Marvin Harrison Jr.Plus, the professor Deniz Selman returns to give his thoughts on the Eagles’ offseason thus far and what his big picture hopes are for the Eagles in the draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

To the P.H.L.Y. Eagles podcast on a Friday, high noon, big show ahead. We're going to be joined by the professor. Danis, Selman, coming up in a little bit. But before we get to that, Bo, Wolf, Zach Berman, from the jump, we are on with Coach Flynn, the wide receivers coach at Princeton. You know him. You love him. Coach, thank you for joining us. Great to be here, guys. Draft season. Let's get it. Let's get it.

I love that. Right there. Right the business. Draft season. Let's get right there. Let's get right to it. Let's talk. We're out receivers. Now, the Eagles are not going to, you know, realistically have a chance at one of these top receivers in the draft, even if they wanted to add that position.

But we've spent some time together, Coach, watching these guys. This is your expertise. I want to, I want to give you a chance. And I know that Zach may not be on board with this, but trusting the eyes, there's a guy in this class who you and I liked a little bit more than Marvin Harrison, Jr. Who is wide receiver one for you?

Yeah, so we watched them actually in this, this very room right here, which you make confused for a cell in the county jail is actually my office. I was going to say, Cold War bunker. Yeah, we're safe against anything here. That's where Einstein was, literally, right? Not far from here. Yeah, not far. Big wide receiver guy, Albert. I like neighbors.

He equals a wide receiver too. I like neighbors. Yeah, I've liked Neleek neighbors as number one from further. a bunch of months. I think he's just so explosive, so good with the ball in his hand. There was a while I liked Odunzei as much as Marv,

but I think Marv is ahead of Roman that way. But I think neighbors after the catch, neighbors against man coverage, he's just a different guy. You know, he's explosive. You see him a lot against the best defees in the country. It's kind of like it's like Devonte Smith in the respect of who he's going against

is as good as you're going to go against. in terms of the back end guys in the SEC and with the schedule they play. And he's just running away from people. And even in the, you know, the throws that are short, you know, he's breaking tackles. He's explosive. I just think he adds an element as a ball carrier that's a little bit better than Marvin Harrison. Again, I think they're both great players. But I've been that way for a little while.

I've watched not everybody, but most of them. And I say that because last time I was on, we were talking about the Eagles offense. And I said I hadn't watched the film and I got absolutely crushed afterwards, which was kind of cool. This time actually did watch the film and do my homework. I didn't just show up randomly after the holiday spout and takes. But I do like neighbors as the as the number one wide out overall. What are we making that time? Yeah.

Look, at that point, I think it's a matter of preference, right? I can see it with neighbors. I prefer Marvin Harrison Jr. Totally realistic. Reasonable. Yeah. I prefer Roma Dunzee over neighbor. But I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to say pick, I think all three of them are really good players.

To me, a dunzee in terms of like the size, you talk about the ability to have production after the catch. You look at the overall production that he had with just a loaded group around him. I was so impressed with a dunzee at every data point throughout the year. But look, Marvin Harrison, Jr., when you see Philadelphia PA, you see San Jose's prep. And then, yeah, this is what I'll say about Marvin Harrison Jr. And you guys can all back me up on this. He was on a wide receiver core that has like all pros on it. You know, Garrett Wilson, Chris Alave, you know, Jackson Smith in Jigba.

And he was the best player on that group, right? And that's not me saying that. Like the Ohio State guys will tell you. And I think Brian Hartline, their wide receivers coach said that. Like Marvin Harrison Jr. was the best player in that group. group, right? And so I think Marvin Harrison Jr. could be a star for the next 10 years, but I think all three of them, this is a good year to be needing a wide receiver in the draft because you're going to get a guy at 10 or 12 or maybe 8 or 9, let's say, who would

typically be a top five pick. Yeah, I don't know that if I was actually the one making the decision, I could bring myself to take someone over Marvin Harrison Jr., given the profile and the production and even like just the group think, but just watching, It's like Marvin Harrison is built to be like the perfect wide receiver. And it seems like everything he does is like to perfect the craft. Whereas Malik Neighbors is out there just like trying to steal your food. Like he's gonna melt your face with the ball in his hand. That's what he's trying to do.

Yeah, he's running right at your nose and saying tackle me. And not for nothing, a full year younger and just as productive in his in his college career. So just just worth noting now. Also real quick, Devonte Smith's Heisman trophy bow. he had Malik Neighbors over Marvin Harrison, Jr. He thought Malik Neighbors was the best receiver in college football last year. He liked Harrison Jr. more as a prospect, but he thought Neighbors was the best receiver last year in college football. I like that.

You had that scoop on all p.g.O.com. Good stuff. All right. Let's move beyond those top three guys, coach. Who is like the next guy beyond that group who has caught your eye that you really like? I mean, I like Brian Thomas kind of for the same reasons. The guy I like more than a lot of people is Keon Coleman. You know, he ran 4-6, I think. And so everybody's like, oh, my God, it's over for him. He's cooked.

And I thought, actually, I thought Tori Smith had a good tweet on that. He's like, 4-6 is actually fast. Everybody that thinks, like, 4-6 is slow. Like, that's actually running pretty good. Tori Smith was a fast guy. I just like Coleman's body control. You know, his ball skills are awesome. He makes them really absurd place, particularly early in the year.

Like, I know he was banged up a little bit at the end. But for the first month, six weeks, of the season, you know, the film I watched, I thought he was the best receiver in the country and then kind of tell off there a little bit, I think, when he got dinged, but he was really good. You know, I like A.D. Mitchell, you know, as a bigger guy who was a hard-edged guy when he was at Georgia, like, you just see him blocking and doing the dirty work, but also winning one-on-one. And, you know, I think he's got an upside as a route runner. I think he can get better. You know, Ladd-McConkie for me has been a journey.

there was so much early hype about Latin Conky like I didn't want to like him like I thought some of the comps I think are ridiculous like they're like oh he's like Antonio Brown Right What? No he's not I think he'll be a good pro

But I think he's way overvalued On a lot of people's sports But I think it'll be good I don't think he'd be a buster He stinks or anything like that And then again I kind of yada yada But the guy So every

You know this is a flex But every Sunday coming here and I just try to see the teams that were the best on offense, get ideas for the week, you know, stuff like that. So I watch Washington every week because Washington I thought was the best offense in college football. And so, you know, I watched Roma Binzae every week. And he was spectacular.

You know, again, I don't think he's as explosive as the other guys. But, you know, like if you watch the explosive plays on him, it's not nearly as good as neighbors or Marv. But if you watch him like contested, fourth down, low red, you know, all that stuff. Like he's, it's the old, you know, high floor, low ceiling. So I do think he is in that group of three guys. I do think he'll be a good player pretty quickly.

You know, some of the other guys, again, I think I like Troy Franklin more than a lot of people do. Yes. Okay. I'm glad you say that. You and I think of a lot. Yeah, he's, he's, you know, I understand all the knocks, but like you put the film on. And again, he's a guy they hung their hat on when it, when it mattered. third down, fourth down, red zone, you know, against USC. I think every catch

was like an 85-yard catch against USC, which now I get in USC did knock a lot of guys down on defense very often, but I think I'd probably like him a little bit. Him and Kea-Colman, I think I probably like a little bit more than most.

You know, I've got my, my wide receiver buckets, ready to go, of course. And you're looking for guys who hit all who check all three boxes, over 1,000 yards receiving in a season, better than 4-5 speed and did not stay the entirety

of their college career left early. There are only five guys in the class who hit it. Marvin Harrison Jr., Malik Neighbors, Brian Thomas, who you mentioned, Xavier Worthy from Texas, and your boy, Troy Franklin. So those are your five there. I have a question for you.

Xavier Worthy. Xavier Worthy is spectacular, man. I mean, I know he struggled catching the ball, but somebody's going to take a flyer on him and as a guy that can just hit home runs. And I think they're probably right to do that. Why is it that Xavier Worthy was the more productive

of the two at Texas with A.D. Mitchell ran faster and is still considered the second of the two as a prospect. Zach, why don't you tell me why that is. Well, I think actually A.D. Mitchell has caught on some steam during the pre-draft process when you look at the size speed combination. That's what jumps out. You know, 6-2, a sub 4-440. But A.D. Mitchell, and this is what I like about him, you go back to even when he was at Georgia. And Coach Flynn said when you're playing down there, It's the Devante Smith thing. You're playing against cornerbacks you'll see in the pros. You look at A.D. Mitchell's games, going back to Georgia, when he played against Michigan,

when he played against Ohio State, when he played against Alabama, you know, when he played against Alabama last year, he's scoring touchdowns in every one of those games, right? He's someone who, now I know touchdowns are not necessarily like a stat that could be sticky, but it's he makes big plays in so many of these games. He's a pro. Xavier Worthy is electric. I think the question with Xavier Worthy is you need to coach as good as Coach Flynn sometimes, right? Who like, because there's a thought you need to scheme him up.

And I always say if that's the thought, like, that's what coaches are there for. If the guys can just run out and, you know, and just play in the backyard, it's me coaching my son's flight football team, right? Like the idea. I'm defeated as head coach, by the way. No, but the idea. Harder to do than you should. That's harder to do than you're giving yourself credit for right there. No, but I'm always skeptical of.

Or I never like to hear you need a real creative coach. Like, yeah, that's what they're paid to do is take a guy who's special talents and make the special talents sing. So I wouldn't be worried about Xavier Worthy just because you need to find ways to scheme him up. I think that's fair. Coach, you have any good advice for Zach? He's got his second game tonight. Oh, second player football game tonight?

Yes. Is the center eligible in your league? Yes, he is. He's money in the bank. Like, whenever there's a problem, just go to. to the center. They forget that almost every time. Game winning touchdown last week. Really? Really? Oh, yes.

Oh, yes. My. Yeah. All right. Yes. Yes. Nice job. Yep. Since you watched the Washington tape a lot, I want to ask you about Jalen Polk, who is, I think, my favorite guy of the day two guys relative to, like, where he seems to be ranked in the class. I really like what I saw from Jalen Polk. Yeah, they were, again, as a group, I thought they were the best in the country. And then I think I thought Pennix, again, it's part of why I like Pennix were the most

but I think he's underrated. You know, I mean, if you look at, I've got his test the numbers here, they're all pretty good. You know, I think it's hard as the second guy sometimes to get him incorporated, but Brian Greber Washington did such a good job. Yeah, the Eagles got him in the second or the third round or the second, whatever that is, the second day, that would be all for it. I teased on yesterday's show, I said there's a guy who I really like on day two, who I think in a different year would go day one.

And you took the words out of my mouth. That was Troy Franklin. When I look at Troy Franklin, what am I missing? Or I guess what is it that is it just the strength of this year's class that he's falling down? Because you look at the time speed, you look at the college production. The knock you hear is that he's 178 pounds. I've heard that knock with a wide receiver in Philadelphia who's about to get paid $25 million a year. Right?

Like, I get it. I wouldn't take someone who doesn't have production, who's an outlier in terms of the slight frame. But every time I watched Oregon, he was running past the guys on the other team. To me, there's, there's like value in doing that on a week in, week out basis. Your first point is a good one. Like, the class is deep. And so when there's that many good players, you know, they're looking to ding you for really anything they can find. and, you know, the size deal, the size speed deal.

It's funny with Devante, like, he was so good fundamentally. He's so good with his ball skills. He's, like, almost an outlier. He is an outlier, really, you know, and he was just he's that good. You know, I don't think Franklin is in that boat, and I think that's probably why he's been knocked down a little bit. Again, because when you go up, you know, like I said, there is a Keon Coleman, there is a Marv.

There is a Roman. There are guys that are. size speed guys with the production. It's funny, though, because when you, I said this to the recruits in here all the time, like even in our room, we have guys that are 6,5, we have guys that are 5,7. Like, the position is generating separation from somebody else. It's getting yourself open. Like, when I saw you guys last year at the Eagles OTA or whatever that was, like,

when you look at the line at the Eagles, you're like, AJ Brown and Devante Smith play the same position. Like, how's that even possible? Yep. You know, so I think. But I also, I remember when Devante was coming out, there's a couple scouts and guys that are coaching the league that were like, no way, off the board, can't do it, not big enough. Guy that small's never done it. No, no, no. Like, I think what gets knocked down right now is production, you know, because they know that, okay, these measurable always work. And in truth, the always isn't what happens. You know, there are guys that can do it. But I think, again, there's enough people that meet those marks. ahead of him on the board that I think that is you know he's got ding for that

so sort of along those lines philosophically like if you were the one in charge of designing the Eagles offense coach and Howie Roseman came to you and was like what what type of wide receiver do you want to add to Devante Smith and A.J. Brown is there like a type that you would want

or would you just say get me the best guy and I will and I will figure it out. Yeah I mean I think you always have to be number two like whoever you give me we can figure it out with those two guys like who I mean whoever the third guy is, I think you're good, if that makes sense. But I think you have a clear one and clear two, and your two is a one for a lot of teams. So what are you looking for?

You're looking for a number three guy who's actually like a viable guy. Like, I just feel like they haven't had, you know, even like a Hunter Renfro or like somebody who's just, you know, can make place in between the hash marks for you, you know, can do the dirty work. You love Hunter. Jason. I mean, I'm not, I mean, there's not enough guys with my hairline or worse playing in the NFL right now, you know, so, but like a Jason Avant. You know what I mean? Like, I think they've had shades of those guys, but like never anybody that is like a winning

player in there to me. Like, they've been very interchangeable. God forbid one of those guys has a helmet break. You know, on a two minute drive and somebody else had to go in outside because I don't think they weren't going to be able to hold up there. end of the bargain. So I think whoever it is, body type or whatever, like, I think the quality of that third guy has to drastically improve. Who do you like on day three? You know, we talk a little bit about it. The guy that I've seen a million times on film is Jalen Coker from Holy

Cross. He's probably a, you know, a further down the road guy, but he was just a big receiver, really good change of direction, really good ball skills. Like all the good defenses that we played, he crushed him. You know, he's kind of, he's kind of the best guy that I saw. Not just on our, you know, film exchange from the course of our past two seasons. You know, I think he's really, really good. I'm trying to take sure. Look at the rest of my.

I don't mind to Johnny Wilson, a huge guy who I think can develop. You know, the Eagles have kind of had that guy in there. I feel like in training camp every year, just a really big raw deal that they're trying to, trying to, you know, we're going to take a flyer on him. And he's going to be like the Milata. of the outside receivers and become a player. Yeah, I mean, there's a long line. I mean, Paul would remember every single guy

and know the day he got cut. But there's, you know, I think somebody like that, you know, those are really the two that jump out from my notes. All right. Well, Coach, what insight as always, how about any, quickly, any of the corners? Because I know we spent some time watching the corners

that you really liked. The guy from Clemson. Yeah. I thought he was awesome. I thought he was just a baller, you know, like a competitor, get in your face, chase down, cause fumbles. The two guys from Alabama were awesome. I thought every defensive guy's name is escaping me right now because I'm in

Springball. I can't talk anything. I can't remember of sort of any defense. But those were the three guys, I think, that jumped out of me. I did not love Cooper to Gene. I thought he was okay, probably safety-ish when all is said and done. I know his numbers are different than that. Mitchell from Toledo, I thought, was awesome.

in the senior bowl one-on-ones. Yes. I mean, obviously, I think he's probably going to be picked before, you know, the Eagles get a chance to pick him. But, like, he was a guy that you watch your family. Like, oh, man, this is a good player. And then you watch a senior ball one and you're like, holy cow, he's smoking everybody.

Like, nobody's getting any separation. And that is probably Mount Union bias because the head coach and the defense coordinator at Toledo are both Mount Union guys, full disclosure. The exact language. But I do think they need a corner. I mean, I think, I mean, I know I'm stating the obvious, but like we got to,

Something's got to be done. Everybody's getting old out there. And, you know, I mean, I think Bradbury is right now still listed as a one, right? You guys, I mean, you could have to do something about that, you know? I think that's probably fair. My, in my last one for you, this, this might be some form of confirmation bias because I don't have the data behind it. It seems just when I was looking at this and then going through Dane Brewlers to be, shout out Mount Union, right? that there's a lot of,

there's a lot more Ivy League guys this year. And perhaps it's because of the transfer rules, right? Guys who played Ivy League football. And then they went to a bigger, a quote unquote bigger school thereafter. In this draft, is the strength of the Ivy not getting enough credit? Is this confirmation bias on my end? Or are you seeing that as well that there are more draft prospects with Ivy League backgrounds?

Yeah, I mean, I think we get. I think FCS football in general doesn't get enough credit. I think the Ivy gets decent credit, but I think that was the big knock on Andre last year. You know, he tested great. He's a little bit older, but Andre has a big upside. And he still, he got dinged for that stuff. You know, I think, you know, there's a lot.

It's funny because Ivy League guys now, you know, the rules, a lot of guys for their fifth year are transferring to power fives. Yep. And getting an extra year that way. And it's, you know, the transfer portal really doesn't affect us except for that. You know, guys who have completed their eligibility. able to hear, but still have a redshirt year, go play Power 5, and then a decent amount of those guys are draft eligible or, you know, guys that end up getting picked. And I think that's,

you know, that's something that's different. And it's, and you know, if you take a guy from this league, like they're, they're, they're glue guys, they're never, there's never going to be an issue. They're going to work their tail off. They're going to be on time. Pick, they're going to bring up your team GPA, all that good stuff. And it's, but it's just like college, it's just like college basketball. They're also, like, established players. Like, there are guys. 30, 25 game starters in our league that can help teams out, you know, as as a nickel or can help teams out that are looking for, you know, a specific positional need. You know, so I think that's been different. I think, again, FCS in general, you know, I think it's very easy. It takes a

little more projection. You know, it takes a little more evaluation. And so I think a lot of people are just like, nah, we'll go with the guy from, you know, the third receiver from a from a power four, power five school before the best FCS guy. But again, I think it has improved, you know, in my 25 years doing it. You know, I mean, Brian Westbrook, I think, went in the third round. Yep. When I was at Villanova. And, you know, the whole running back thing went into play there.

But, I mean, what he tested out, how he played, he probably could have been higher. But even then, that for us was like, oh, my goodness, you know, that was super high back in those days. Again, you're seeing it more and more now. Quarterbacks getting picked and stuff like that. it's at the bottom line is it's an inexact science and there's way too many coaches or ex-coaches involved in it that think that they know everything and they're exactly right all the time and so it gets screwed up same as it ever was coach thank you so much thanks guys great being on look forward to talking to you soon

great to see you great to see you great to carry on the tradition thank you have a great weekend coach we we look forward to talking to you again soon see you guys all right let me tell you everybody about True Mark Financial Credit Union, because when you join a credit union like True Mark Financial, you become part owner, which means the profits come back to you instead of going to the shareholders, better rates, lower fees, a better return on savings, and more flexible options with all the same digital tools and tech to make our lives easier. True Mark has local routes, headquartered in Fort Washington, with 24 branches in the Philadelphia area. They serve our community and our people right here at home. Becoming a member of a credit union has so many benefits over being a customer at a bank.

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and wants help, call 1,800 gambler. Welcome to the set, everybody the professor himself danis how are you dan is doing well thank you uh how are you guys it's been a while long time no long yeah my first time in this uh in this smaller studio friendly confines in studio b it's a little more intimate little more uh you get the you get the the desk here i think i i tend to prefer a studio b if you had told me i would not have worn pants but it's waste well i mean you can take them off if you want to well yeah i mean i meant i would have worn shorts but okay you're wearing pants

Of course. Okay. First time in the middle seat for this, though. I'm not a tennis fan, but I feel like I'm at a tennis match because going back and forth and back and forth. Got to chuck out of Andrew. Appreciate that. Nice. Good view.

Yeah. How you doing, professor? How is the Eagles off season treated? Doing well. This is kind of my time to, you know, people were asking me the other day, like, you know, we haven't seen you tweet in a while and, you know, you're, you know, and part of it is I just need the time for mental recovery. after the season. Were people tweeting that at you

or people were stopping you in the streets? Both. Both. Okay. Yeah, both. Well, some people I know. Not one instance of stranger on the street. Okay.

Yeah. I said, hey, I haven't seen you tweet. Yeah, it's like, what are you doing? Tweet something now. And also, yeah, just people on Twitter as well. I need a little bit of a break, you know, and this is a good opportunity for me. You know, I mean, first of all, I'm teaching four courses this semester. So that might be part of it as well.

But also, I do not watch college football, like, at all. And so. Say what you said before when he said the same thing. I'm sorry to hear that. Sorry for your loss. It helps my marriage, for sure, given how into the Eagles. How into the Eagles I am, it's good that I don't watch any college football at all, like zero. Like, I'll watch a little bit of the championship game every year.

And I'll say, like, how is there this big a difference between the best team and the second best team? It was weird. And then I kind of turned it off. And that's it. That's like my only analysis of college football. because it never seems to be a close game. But the names seem fake to me. You know, like, you can't convince me

there's really somebody named Kool-Aid McKinstree until I see that person on a TV, which I've never done. But, yeah, so I enjoy, I've been watching all the shows and I'm enjoying hearing all the fake names and, you know, I downloaded the Beast and the same names are there.

And, you know, listening to people like Brandon Thorne and Friends. and talk about, you know, and Coach Flynn, you know, talk about the prospects is really fun for me. But, yeah, I just not my thing. I had a friend in college one time who, who, he would, he, he, he joked like how, you know, I did, I did decently on an exam that, like, I didn't spend a lot of time studying for. And I said, and I didn't say this in a disparaging way. I'm like, I went to class.

Like, I listened to the lectures. I took notes. I did the readings. Like, that was, that was. to work. I didn't need to learn everything the night before. Like, unlike my friend who, who wasn't going to class and was just kind of like cramming the night before. And that's kind of, I'm not saying that like, like, my draft rep is, is in October. But I feel sometimes I'm like, yeah, I remember this happening on the screen in front of me as opposed to like two weeks before the draft. And that's

why you still think Isaiah Simmons is a good player. Well, Isaiah Simmons goes to the creative field and chippy in the booth. It needs a creative coach, apparently. So. It needs to create a coach. Yeah, because that seems to be the problem. How about before we get to, you know, we'll talk a little bit more about what Zach and I think of some of these wide receivers, but your reflections on what the Eagles did in free agency. Yeah. So I do love free agency. I do tweet a lot during that because I actually know those players.

I was a little bit underwhelmed by what was done at linebacker. Like I actually was hoping for more of a, you know, obvious like let's get this guy who. going to start and be good. And you don't view Devin White that way? I'm just not sure. You know, like, like I obviously, Devin White has the pedigree. Obviously he had, you know, good years in the NFL, or at least a good year. But he was benched for like kind of random guy last year.

You know, like he was not playing very much in the playoffs, barely played at all in their in their last playoff game. And I know he was injured and whatnot earlier in the season, but that's a little disturbing. And on all the other things you hear about him, you know, like not being maybe as coachable and freelancing and things like that. it'll be interesting to see how that goes with a guy like Vic Fangio who the Miami players don't seem to have a lot of nice things to say about him like it's like is how's that going to work um so yeah I'm a little underwhelmed there obviously Nicoby Dean we haven't seen anything from him either and then looking down the depth chart um there's kind of nothing there you know like um you know orren berks has been if only they had a young capable linebacker you know it's funny but last night you did that awesome or I watched it last night yesterday um uh you have to the, or was it two days ago? Whenever it was.

That was great. It was edge rush or day. I thought it was very funny that you didn't mention that the Eagles currently have an Ellis on the roster. Well, yeah. It's true. And you're actually calling for a second one. So yeah, Noah Ellis is still on the team, which is kind of funny. Yeah, but he hasn't solved anything.

I think that's true. I think Jonah is the one who was promised. That's, yes. Okay. Well, hopefully, hopefully. Yeah, I just, I'm a little concerned about that because linebackers don't tend to be, I don't know, like they're not something that Howie has targeted early in the draft. Sure.

And when he's targeted like third rounders, they haven't always turned out well, right? And so plus this year's linebacker class seems to be terrible. Like when you're just looking at the round projections on the beast, like it like starts out in the second round and like, you know, quickly gets to the third. And you're not buying like, you know, Zach Bond could moonlight there on the pinch.

I don't know. So, I mean, I know Van Ginkle did that in Miami and that's what everyone's going to talk about. with Zach Bond. I don't know. Like, what does Moonlight mean? Like, if you need a guy who's going to be the third guy, sure, maybe he can do that. But is he going to...

If he could do what Nolan Smith did last year and just be out there looking like a checking his head cut off. In the penny package, just all by himself. Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure you can do that, actually. I'm curious as a longtime Eagles fan, what's your stance on Jeremiah Trotter Jr.? Not in terms of evaluating him, but I've heard two schools of thoughts here.

I've heard a thought from from from Eagles fans who are like this would be the coolest thing ever. And then I heard a thought from some people like, why would they ever do this to him? The only the only thing he'll ever be measured up against is one of the best players in the past 25 years. Yeah, that's a good point. Anytime these sons of players are, you know, coming into the league in any sport, my main reaction is I can't believe I'm this old. Okay. So it's hard to get past that. But I agree with you in terms of the reaction to him, it would probably be easier.

for him just like mental health-wise to get drafted by literally anyone else sure like yeah i think i think that's right you know i think that's probably fair but but there's a lot of people who want jeremiah trotter so badly you know jeremiah trod so badly so that's why we'll have a linebacker day next week when when we'll get more into the trotter discussion but that's you know it's it's one thing if you draft the guy if like brentzellick had a son and they draft to brentzell it could be different then i mean as as matt quinn which like i mean this no chance to Kimmer 87. Sure, yeah.

Or let's just take like, I mean, actually, Brent Selk was a good player. If they took like. Matt Tobin. I don't think people remember. Like Karel Bukhalter, who was like a real solid player for them. But like, if they took Corral Buck Alder's son, it wouldn't be. How about Eldra Buckley? People wouldn't, I don't think Eagles fans would be like, oh, Big Eltrade.

Watch the show right now. You're taking shots at Eldra Buckley. But, no, Jeremiah Trotter is the best linebacker the Eagles have had over the past 25 years. and for them to take his son. That's fired at Christian Ellis. That's been a fascinating discussion. How about the shuffle along the edge with Hassan Redaigan, Bryce off in? What do you make of that?

Yeah, so weird. It's very weird. I mean, one of the things about the, you know, like the compensation for veterans in the trade market this offseason. There's been a lot of talk about how low it's been. And this is where I have to kind of put on. my economics professor. I love your economics professor hat. Which I, I don't know if you would actually love it.

Zach, if you ever actually came and audited my class like you said you were going to. I want to. You might change your mind. I do a daily show here. I would like to. You didn't do a daily show when you said you were going to do. That's true. Now you have the excuse.

I was writing a book though. Okay. That was my excuse. That's fair. And now you took this job so you would have the excuse. No, I trust me, I want to get better as a professor. We can, you know, I can, I have some flexibility over what time my classes are. So if you tell me what time your.

free maybe I can I can get that game theory class set up for you next year after 2 o'clock yeah yeah well actually it's at 3 30 so you know what's that how's the book coming um it goes it gets sent in next month and we're going through the edits and some you know since I wrote oh my god I don't there have been some changes in the organization and on the roster since I wrote this since I brought my manuscript so I need to update three chapters and that's happening the next week that's to delete the Christian Ellis chapter. Yes. Yeah.

It's too bad. There's a player. It got relegated to the appendix. There are two popular players who retired. There's a, yeah. So there's a few things that have happened. Okay. Understandable.

Yeah. Trying to think of who the players who retired were. Who was my guy? Oh, anyway, I'm blanking now. The guy who was Cameron Melvo. He retired. There you go. Yes, your boy.

That's what we got. All right. So the edge rushers. Yeah. Yeah. So the compensation for us on Reddick has been criticized, right? Like obviously as being. being lower than expected.

When you look at compensation for guys like Ligerius need, the economics professor had part of me, and this isn't, you don't need to be an economics professor to understand this, but I think it's under-discust, is you're not paying to have the player for free, right? You're paying for the right to pay the player. And the better the player is,

the more you have to pay the player. Like Brian Burns. That was the, yeah. Yeah, and the agents are involved in the process. And so, like, you need to convince the player to come to you at the number that you're willing to play for. And depending on who is bargaining better there,

you might not be getting a whole lot of surplus as the team, like for paying that player that much. And so you're not going to be willing to, you know, give up a lot for that right. And in terms of it being 2026 as opposed to 2025, I know some people are like 2026. There, I think the kind of classic market inefficiency of if you're Howie Roseman and you know you're going to be here in 2026

and 2027 and 2020. Like you have that job security and you're making a trade with Joe Douglas, who doesn't have that job security, right? You are personally going to care more about the 2026 season than Joe Douglas is, right? And so that's a bit of a market inefficiency there. The further in the future the pick is, the better the pick you're probably going to get if you have that long-term security. Now, owners should care about the future, unless they're really old, I guess. but like fans also like I've always said it's it's it's a good thing if you're a fan if you're an Eagles fan as long as Howie Roseman isn't terrible as a GM it's a good thing that he feels like

he has job security because he cares as much about the 2027 season as you do as a fan like you're still going to be a fan in 2027 right and so you should care as much about the 20207 season as the 24 season like of course we're all naturally impatient and so we care currently we think we care more about the 24 season but my point there I guess is that it being a future pick, it not being that high a pick, shouldn't be that surprising. In terms of the actual player, I mean, it's clearly a downgrade. Like, you're going from Hassan Redick, who was super productive playing a lot of snaps to a guy who's never shown that he can do that. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, if, you know, the age is good.

Obviously, if he does turn into a good player, it's good to get younger there. But, you know, I heard, you know, like a lot of people talking about, like, is this roster better now? then at the end of the season. And unfortunately, I think it's very clearly not, right? Like, I mean, you lost Jason Kelsey. You lost Fletcher Cox. You lost us on Reddick. Well, those are three of the best, like, you know,

being conservative, three of the best 10 players on the team, right? And you lost those three guys, and you replaced them with, you know, a guy who was a rotational player on the Jets. You got C.J. Gardner Johnson back, and I'm a big fan of him. But, like, that's not, you know, making, like, you wouldn't, say, okay, we'll get rid of Fletcher Cox and Husson Reddick and get C.J. Gardner Johnson and Bryce off and now

the team's better. You know what I mean? So and Devin White will see, but I'm a little concerned about the defense. And you get rid of Jason Kelsey, the guy you bring in on offense is Seyquin Barkley. How about from a, from an economics framing like the, the willingness

to pay for that position, the explanation that you're paying him darnel Mooney money. What do you make of that whole? Yeah, I'm totally of the, I am normally part of, I am like the running back stone, matter that much school not don't matter at all right but like don't matter that much um i do think that unless he can contribute a lot in the passing game and also be a good pass blocker which actually matters like people say like you know you're not paying for pass blocking but the eagles have had so

many running backs who have been really bad at it recently and um you know the the the in the syriani offense typically on third down the running back is staying in kind of like seeing if there's a guy coming and then, you know, just going out for a quick checkdown. Like, that's been the role. And they've been so bad at that. But he'll just go there. I mean, it'll be like third and ten, so it doesn't matter. But yeah, sure, yeah, that, that.

But the point is that, like, it matters if you were doing that well, you know, like, and teams will exploit it when they're not. And unfortunately, like, you know, Kenny Gainwell, like, wasn't very good at that. Like, he's been the third down back and he hasn't been very good at it. You know, Miles Sanders wasn't good at it. Didn't even play on third down because he wasn't good at it, you know? And so, Sequin Berkeley being good at that and has been good at that throughout his career, I think matters. And I don't think that's the most important thing, but I'm talking about that because I think it's been under talked about.

And also running backs have gotten so cheap. Like it's like, I think the analytics community is sort of won that, you know, thing to the point that the running backs are like organizing and saying they should be getting more, getting paid more. And it has gotten so cheap now that the meaning examples, again. good one like yeah sure I'll take Sequin Barclay over you know replacement level wide receiver which is like about what he costs so and then I think to follow up on on that an argument that the Eagles would make behind the scenes is you can't necessarily look at what that salary is you have to look at the percentage of the cap right is is that one you buy when it comes to the running back position and and the way I'll I'll frame it because it was framed to me this way was that if you

look at what Nick Chubbs contract was he restructured it recently but it it would be the equivalent of like 16, 17 million this year compared to Seguan Barclay making 13 million. Yeah, no, exactly. I think percentage of the cap is what matters. And also, like, you know, you guys have talked about this before, but like Jeffrey Lurie being willing to pay cash today, you know, restructuring contracts, pushing money forward, that kind of thing. With the cap continually growing, it's always been strange to me that you're just allowed to do that with no interest. Like, you know, like, it's like like in regular, like, you know, in the real world, like, you can just buy a house. Yeah, you can't just borrow money that you use in the future.

And in the NFL, it's actually negative interest because the cap keeps growing. And so you are, you know, you're at a huge advantage there. And so, yeah, I think, I think that's what actually matters. I mean, it's not my money. Like, what matters for me is like how much of the cap it is? Like, is it preventing you from signing other players? And Sequin Berkeley is not preventing this team from signing like other good players. I think, I think it's fine.

Yeah. All right. Well, good conversation that you can have with your friends. And if you're doing that, well, you probably want to have a nice cold Miller Light in your hand because a lot has changed over the years. But one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. It was the original light beer. And to this day, it is still the best one. Miller Light has more of the taste you want and less of the stuff you don't. So if you're sitting around debating Marvin Harrison Jr. and Malik neighbors and Roma, Dunzei and Brock Bowers, and you want to be sucking them back. with your friends, Miller Light has you cover. Miller Light keeps it simple, undebatable quality, great taste, only 96 calories. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most.

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visit millerlight.com slash p hly birds or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer celebrate responsibly miller brewing company milwaukee wisconsin 96 calories per 12 ounces i don't know if you all saw the announcement the other day on the anthing gargana show or on our social media accounts but jim salisbury is joining p h l y as a contributor um i've i've followed the Phillies for about 35 years. I'm 38 years old, so probably since I was three or four years old. During my time following the Phillies, Jim Salisbury is the best Phillies reporter during that time. I'm thrilled to have him here. But if you want to read his work, you're going to have to be a diehard member. Please sign up. It is worth it for that. And for many other stuff, we are going to

have premium draft coverage. You've seen it on the show. I'm going to have some of these position by position things, some mock. drafts. Bow and I are working on some different things behind the scenes as well. You can become a diehard member at all p.hly.com. And in addition to this exclusive content, you will get great merchandise. You get 20% off events. A free shirt when you become a member. There's a member only discord. So make sure you do that. Head over to all p.gly.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. Great reads, Zach. Very excited to have James Salisbury with us. Do you think, though, that somewhere in this great land of ours.

Matt Gelb is lying on the ground with a with a knife in his back. Oh, no. I trust me. I love Matt Gillb. Yeah. I mean, there. I mean, Matt's all. Poor guy is bleeding out.

That's amazing, too. I'm saying, Jim has a certain nostalgic value for me, too. Like, I grew up, I grew up reading him in the Enquirer. I was watching him on NBC Sports Philly. I briefly worked with him at the Inquirer. I've, I mean, Jim's an icon. I think Matt will tell you the same thing. So no, I trust me, Matt knows right.

Matt knows how I feel about him. I can see Zach's screen. Gelb is actually ninth on the list. Matt knows how, Matt knows how I feel about him. Just saying, I heard it the same way, Matt. However, you heard it. Please don't do this. Notice that as soon as I said that, Zach, immediately changed his screen.

Yeah, you know what is funny? He was, he reflexively did me. He's actually up there, which is funny. Which is my wide receiver data. Well, let's talk wide receivers, Zach. Yeah. You want to talk buckets? I love your buckets, so let's see you.

Now, I have pared down the buckets. The buckets used to go about 15 years back. I'm going last 10 years because the league has changed a little bit, although that does make the sample size smaller. These are not the most, these are not predictive, but I think they're descriptive of the guys who are here, right? So the young, productive, and fast, you look at the guys who were drafted in the first two rounds over the past 10 years.

12 of them hit basically, if we're defining that as at least 1,000 yard NFL season, 14 of them did not. So this is not like they're definitely going to hit, but that's relative to the position, a fairly good hit rate. And as I said earlier, the guys who are in this bucket, and again, this is better than a 4-5, 40, at least 1,000 yards receiving in a season in college, and did not stay the entirety of your eligibility.

And that is Marvin Harrison Jr., Malik Neighbors, Brian Thomas, Xavier Worthy, Troy Franklin, all guys who are probably going to go in the top two rounds, right? Yeah, Franklin, I think, would be in play there when the Eagles are drafting at 50 and 53. Those other guys probably off the board, you would have to trade up or trade back from 20 for, you know. What would you make of if I think one of the more realistic, shocking first round picks the Eagles could do, let's say they'd go Brian Thomas at 22. What would you make of that? Yeah, it would surprise me just based on. the strength of the receivers in this class.

If you're looking at it based on tiers, and I thought Fran did a good job on Monday show outlining that. And I know for a fact, that's how the Eagles have their boards. Their board is not a vertical board. It's kind of horizontal, right? And so I just think when you look at tiers, there's going to be a drop off at certain positions from those tiers. And you have positions like offensive tackle,

cornerback, where I think you can find real good players there and you might not find the same quality player thereafter. That said, and I'm curious what you, both you guys think here, I think wide receivers are a need for the Eagles. And I've been consistent about this going back to the end of the offseason. Upgrading third receiver, but also, and I've said this,

I sound like a broken record, they've been remarkably lucky with the health and the durability of A.J. Brown and Devante Smith. We saw in week 18 when A.J. got hurt, or when Devante didn't play, rather, And then we, and then in the playoffs, when AJ got hurt, what this offense looks like without one of them. And the other thing, too, is, uh, cause Watkins got a touch now. Yeah.

Devonte is going to get paid soon. And this is not a 2024 problem or a 2025 problem even. But at some point here, the Eagles are going to have to figure out if they can pay both these guys top of the league money. And so there is a chance that, um, a wide receiver that it takes, let's say, in round two is your starting. receiver in 2027. Yeah, I think that's right. Now, Brian Thomas, in case you don't know, is the Speedster from LSU, 6-3-209, had almost 1,200 receiving yards in 2023, ran a 4-33, 40-yard dash.

I could, you know, you could sell me if we're talking tiers that, like, he is the last, or he's sort of like a separate tier, I think. I sort of view him as, there's the top three guys, there's Brian Thomas, and then there's the next group of guys. And so if you view that as a drop-off, maybe that's part of the appeal. Yeah, I don't know if I have that same opinion there. And I just think you're going to find really good receivers on day two, whereas I don't feel that way about offensive tackle.

Not to say that you need to push a position, but I think there's more of a drop off a tackle than there is a wide receiver. Okay. Next bucket, you've got the young and productive guys who are not so fast. Now, this is like the Mike Evans type, the Devante Adams type, these guys who were really, really good in college. came out but did not beat four or five. And this is actually the best hit rate of the early round guys, nine hits, six misses,

and a few late round hits. But actually, no prospects in this draft qualify unless you count Jalen Polk as, as young when he sort of stayed. He was like a fourth year junior and it's a tough coding, but not a lot of guys here. Young and fast, not so productive, not a great hit rate here. Three hits, six misses. And this is your A.D. Mitchell, Devontes, Walker bucket.

You like either of those. We talked to A.D. Mitchell. Yeah. Well, I really like A.D. Mitchell. And I like Tess as well. I think that it was a fascinating story last year with him transferring to UNC and kind of waiting for eligibility. I think he's an explosive player.

Between those two, A.D. Mitchell, to me, has the upside to be a number one receiver in the league. And if you're taking a swing, I think A.D. Mitchell can hit. but Tess Walker can be a good piece of a good wide receiver core. Next up, you've got the productive and fast not so young. And this is for first and second round picks the worst bucket, again, very small sample sizes. But of the 14 guys who were drafted at least two years ago, only one of them has hit. And that is Devante Smith.

Now, the rest of them are you're talking, Anthony Miller, Corey Coleman, Paris Campbell, Jordan Matthews, Kevin White. Jordan Matthews might have a 60 catch season. so maybe you would He said more than six to catch season. He was actually, he had a 997 yard season. And I remember talking to him after the game and he lamented a drop that he had earlier in that year

that would have pushed him over a thousand. Jordan was always good to speak with. Now, Zay Flowers might not change that too. But this prospect group sort of includes a Dunzee if you're counting him as not left early. Xavier Leggett, who some people love. Well, how do you feel about Xavier Leggett?

Yeah, you hear the AJ Brown comp with him. Now, the age, if you're an ageist, you won't like him. He is 23 already. He wasn't really productive until his senior year. But if you look at it from like the Madden perspective, you know, 6-1, 221, round a 439-40 and was electric this past year with South Carolina. So it's like a boomer bus type situation. But he is a little older than that top bucket that you referenced.

Now the flip side here is while those guys have not done well in the first two rounds, it is a place where there have been some late round hits, especially guys from smaller schools. Your John Browns, your T.Y. Hilton's, Emmanuel Sanders, Adam Thielen and Tyree Kill, although there aren't really any guys in the class who fit that description. Jacob Cowing from Arizona, who I kind of like a little bit. Yeah, good slot.

But anyway. Jedfish special right there. Yeah, I thought about that. Guys who were just productive, stayed their whole career. but didn't break out until the end of their career and did not run fast. This is the JJ Arthega, a white side group, four hits, three misses. JJ. And the big, is JJ a hit or a miss?

He's a miss. The prospects here, Malachi Corley is the headliner here from Western Kentucky. Any thoughts on him? Yeah, I mean, Malachi Corley is like a yards after the catch guy. And you can see it with him. I probably have a big school bias. I'm sorry, Coach Flynn. but that is a good bucket in terms of some of those guys there.

But, yeah, I mean, there are guys that I like more than Corley. Like, for instance, I'm looking at Dame Brueger's rankings in front of me. He has Corley over Troy Franklin. I would take Troy Franklin among that group. But Corley certainly, like, there's reason to like him when you watch his games. All right. Let's talk about the guys who were just fast. So they did not produce enough and they stayed their whole career, but they can fly.

four hits in the first two rounds, seven misses, a few late round hits, actually. But this is the group where you've got Ladd-McConkey, Roman Wilson from Michigan, Ricky Pearsall from Florida, Germain Burton from Alabama are the headliners. How do you feel about that quadrant? Yeah, Jermaine Burton, you know, that's it off the field question there, right? You hear stuff about the coachability part of it. He was at Georgia and Alabama and he was productive at both places. So if you're taking a swing later in the draft, I hear that.

Ricky Persol is, he would be like, he's a bigger guy. You know, he kind of gets pegged as a slot sometimes, and you can see him playing in the slot. He's a big body guy, older too. Transfer last year to Florida. He was at Arizona State before that. And then Ladd-McConkie, there's a lot of people who really like Ladd-McConkie, and I can certainly see why he ran well, he performed well. I don't think he'll be there

when the Eagles pick but yeah I mean the production was there the testing numbers were there as well All right just to close this out the guys who were just young There's only been one in the drafts in the first rounds that was Michael Thomas

That is where Keon Coleman comes from in this year Then there are the guys who didn't hit any of the baselines none of the above And the only miss there is Van Jefferson But there have been some late round hits Including Pooka Nakua from last year That's where Brendan Rice Johnny Wilson And Ania Smith come from

So who are the guys that you do like in the like day three if we're talking adding to the the eagles rotation yeah you mentioned smith from texas a and m didn't have a lot of production uh or i shouldn't say didn't have prolific production but when you watch texas a and m um you saw someone who will translate to the NFL like i i think smith can have a role and if you're thinking on day three all right this is guy who's who i've said this you're not drafting your number one receiver but you're drafting someone who can be part of a rotation who can contribute on special teams who can make plays with the ball on his hands,

Smith jumps out to me there. Brendan Rice, you talk about the burden of the last name, if you will. I mean, Jerry Rice is son. But every time you watch Caleb Williams and you see who Caleb Williams was making place to, it was Brendan Rice. And, you know, good size, 6-2-808. He's on the younger. I mean, he's 22.

He's not young, but he's not like an old guy. But, yeah, I thought he was good. But if you're looking for like late around guys, Smith jumps out to me. I think for me, I said Jalen Polk is my favorite guy on day two relative to consensus. The guys who popped for me a little bit, day three. I mentioned Jacob Cowing. Seems like a very smart player. I don't think he played quite to the 438 speed that he tested at,

but I think a guy who could be sort of like a Jason Avant type, as Danes said before. Javon Baker, who we talked about flashed at the Senior Bowl, a little bit inconsistent, but I like what he brings to the table. I mean, 22 yards per catch in 2023 and plays like that, really good ball tracking skills, it seemed like. And then if you're looking for like a fun little guy, Anthony Gold from Oregon State was a little bit interesting to me. Jalen McMillan, the other guy from Washington. I got sort of like Mack Hollins vibes from him. And then Malik Washington from Virginia.

Another interesting part of way of Northwestern, yeah, smaller guy. There's one local guy, Zach. Tulu Griffin from Mississippi State. Okay. Did not do much work on Tulu Griffin or did not do work on Tudorne. Return specialist if you want to go there. He is from Philadelphia, Mississippi. Oh, you got me worried because I thought I knew all the Philly guys.

And I was like... That's where the movie Mississippi Burning takes place, Philadelphia, Mississippi, with Gene Hackman. Okay, sorry. Okay, no, that's random. That's a good nugget. You're going to watch that now, Zach? Yeah, I can't. Who's their, Gene Hachman.

You got me really worried because I thought I knew every Philly guy in this train. And I'm like, honestly, that's what I was open. I was like, wait, there's a Philly guy from Mississippi State. I should know that. But all right. Some return juice. I did want to circle back. And we talked to both of you about this is,

Xavier Worthy is a fascinating question here. Like, the fastest guy ever at the combine, okay? And like, I mean, to say elite speed, when you hear the Tyreek Hill comp, it's warranted. Now, the flip side of that is John Ross never panned out when he was with the Bengals. John Ross was someone who the Eagles really liked in that 2017 draft and went top 10. He was productive out at Washington. When you watch Xavier Worthy, there's a lot to like just before you saw him run.

Then you saw him run, and that probably pushed him up from like a second round guy to, it's hard. this is the way I'll frame the question for you. If you're sitting there and you're saying you have a chance to get someone who's special by meaning like there aren't people in the world like this, is that type of speed enough for you to pull the trigger on someone who is such an exception in that regard? Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm intrigued by Xavier Worthy. Now, when I watched him with Coach Flynn, I did not think that it was like, he didn't look like Tyreek Hill to me.

And a lot of it was sort of schemed up stuff. it seemed like. But what I feel like is underplayed is, I mean, he was really, really productive. He had 980 receiving yards as a true freshman at Texas, topped 1,000 yards last year, was the, was, you know, more productive than A.D. Mitchell in on the same team. I think that signal matters. If you're talking like, would you pull a trigger on the second round on a guy like this who, in theory, like, you know, the whole idea of Kwez Watkins is that he's got this game-breaking

speed, which they never really used, right? if it's Xavier worthy and there is the upside that you talked about of eventually replacing maybe one of those wide receivers leaves, yeah, I would be in the second round. Yeah, I don't think he'll. I was talking more like 22.

Oh, I would not take it on 22. Does speed matter that much to you? To me? Yeah. I mean, he is 511. If speed is the reason Quez Watkins was playing all those snaps, then I think, you know,

with Siriani is still here. I'm a little worried if you just bring a guy who's just fast. Like, you know, then he'll be on the field just to stretch defense. That's just a stretch defense. Yeah, I don't know. I've always been a little bit skeptical about. A funny Xavier Worthy aside.

Unfortunate timing with the beast this week. Xavier Worthy for all the recruiting nerds out there like me, remember he was committed to Michigan. He did not stay in Michigan. He decided to go to Texas. But there was a note in the J.J. McCarthy capsule that Dane Bruegler had where a scout said, J.J. McCarthy told all the Michigan recruits if you want to chase girls or

do that kind of thing, don't come here. We're going to be the class that turns around Michigan. Then they had four guys decommit. Xavier Bertie was one of them. So, just unfortunate. Man after growing hard. I would never decommit to Michigan. Chance of playing the big house.

No, you didn't. You decommit if you're committed to your deed. Wow. you said that. I mean, that's how you're framing, right? But no. I think the politically correct way to say that is Chase Scirts, by the way. You think that's better?

No. I will pull up the exact quote here while you guys saw it just so I don't. I had a quick trivia question for you since you mentioned Philadelphia, Mississippi. Where was the world's first Philadelphia, the place from which the city gets its name? Greece? Turkey. Would I ask if it was Greece? Yes, it isn't Turkey.

It is an ancient Greek. It is currently called Alashij. It is in southwestern Turkey. And there is essentially nothing there of the ancient city. So you can't go see the ruins or anything. But it's a kind of neat thing that I would tell my friends when I lived in Philly as a kid that like the original Philly is in Turkey. Yeah. Yeah. As a football team. I don't know, but the college football team of the university that I taught at was was horrendously bad. I could watch the practices from my balcony. from the faculty housing. And there was a football team, which was pretty cool, I thought.

But they ran the ball all the time because the quarterback couldn't throw. Howie Roseman used to watch the Florida practices from a parking garage. He found a spot in a parking garage that overlooked the field, and he would watch the Florida practices there. And he would scout the players. And as was once described to me, he saw a running back there. And he said, this guy's going to be great. And that running back turned into Fred Taylor.

Who was he before? Yeah, exactly. That's amazing. That right way was Fred Taylor. But turned out, he was not known, like, around the country at that point. If he has the power to just turn people into good players, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

So the J.J. McCarthy quote is, before he signed, he was telling other Michigan recruits that if they wanted the party and chase girls go somewhere else, his class was going to be the one that restored Michigan. And then four guys decommitted. But is that on the beast or you're saying four guys decommitted? No, not the four guys is committed. this was in the beast, not the decommitting part. But Xavier Worthy was known as a guy who was committed to Michigan and then decommitted. I'm not saying one. So are you?

Are you? I just thought it out there that he decommitted because he wanted to chase curls? No, no, no, no, no. That's sex theory. No, I'm not suggesting that at all. I was saying it's unfortunate. I was saying he's known. I think you very clearly suggesting that. Okay. He's known kind of a son.

Listen, there's an opening in Philadelphia, you know, with recent retirements. He was known somebody. William Worthy wants to come to Philadelphia. He was known as someone who decommitted from Michigan that year. That's all I was, trust me. I think Xavier Worthy is awesome. I liked him actually before he ran the 40. And then he's like, if you're the Kansas City Chiefs and you're trying to, you know, find your Tyreek Hill replacement,

Xavier Worthy. If he's on the board, you take Xavier Worthy. I had a quick thought on something we just didn't get to. Yeah. If there's time. It's Friday. We got time. Okay, well, it's the, you guys talked about it with Fran, and you kind of made the case for drafting the right tackle of the future in round one. I've heard Sheel talk about how it, sorry, who would be, there's this guy who has a podcast with Benzolak.

Michael Kist? Oh, man. Let's not even get into the long. He's jacked. I heard she'll these days. Yeah, she was Jack these days. Yeah, so the, not Bleacher reports, sorry, SB Nation is what I meant. But, yeah, so Sheel was talking about kind of questioning whether it's a good use of resources.

Famously, he didn't think Dallas Goddard was. I actually was going to ask you guys whether you think Dallas Goddard was a good pick. Like now, like looking back, was he a good pick? I think so, yes. He was good enough to overcome the fact that he didn't play that much for half of his rookie country. He turned into being a very good player. Right, I agree, I agree. But the threshold was really high, right?

Like he had to be one of the best items in the league, and he probably became that just enough to call a good pick. Now, the big difference, obviously, with tackle is that if you're just a tackle, if you're not, I'm going to try to show off a little bit of homework that I did. If you're not, what is it, Fautano, Leitham, and Fuaga, those are the three guys with versatility, right? Basically, yes. If one of those guys plays guard and then moves to tackle,

then he's playing the whole time, you could say, okay, well, you know, we drafted him in the first round, right tackle the future, plus he fills an obvious need right now at right guard because we don't know. It doesn't seem like they like Tyler Steen very much, at least based on what we've seen so far. But I think I agree with Sheel that it's like questionable use of resources

for a team that like is in a Super Bowl window now. The guy might not play at all for two years. Two years like Lane said he's going to play two years, right? So if he's not a guard, if it's just one of these tackle only guys. But what happened to 2006 matters just as much as Well, exactly, but you have the rookie contract thing, right? That's a real thing. And it's more real with tackles than it is with tight ends. Like, it's not that big a deal that you had to pay Dallas Goddard. Yeah. Like he's a tight end. But it matters when you're on a rookie contract when you're a premium position like an offensive tackle who get paid a lot. Wasting two of those cheap years for a guy who's just sitting on the bench is not something that's ideal. Now, I think 2027, matters as much. But the Super Bowl window thing is real too. Like you know now like whether the team

has a chance. You know that you have AJ Brown and Devante Smith here. You know that, you know, you have, um, the offensive line still looks good. You know, whatever. Like there are things about the team that make you think right now is a like an opportunity. The NFC being weak in general, whatever, all those things. Other premium positions like corner defensive line have more of an avenue for a player to contribute right away. Even if they're not in trend starters. Plus, if you're drafting a corner in round one. I would hope that on this team, he would be a starter, right? Like, so, so there's that too. And then when it comes to the future mattering more, it's a very good question you're asking. Yes, I care about the future as much, but can't, are there no

tackles in college right now who are going to be coming out in two years? Like when, you can, but I guess like if you had the second pick in the draft and your quarterback's going to retire in two years, like, I can see how you might want to pick a quarterback because like he's this amazing guy who are not going to be able to get. But, but. the Eagles have the 22nd pick in the draft. Yeah. Like, it's not a top five pick. It's not where they got Lane Johnson.

Who, by the way, did not sit. Lane Johnson played right away. Sure. Right. And as we said the other day, they'd literally move Todd Herman's position to accommodate Lane Johnson so we can play right away. Exactly.

And I think that like I know that this is a tackle, you know, like a good draft for tackles. Yeah, I think that's part of the selling point. That's overstated. It's like it's a little bit better than other years. Fine. But like, it's a 22nd pick. It's not a high enough pick.

that you're getting a guy who's going to be as sure to be good as Lane Johnson was. Like, you picked Lane Johnson in the top five. That's a very different thing. And I just think, like, the chance of being able to draft a similar guy when it's actually time for them to play in two years. Also, you don't know what your pick's going to be in two years. I mean, hopefully it won't be a top ten pick, but maybe you'll, you know, convince the Saints to trade you one of their picks again

and you will get a top pick, you know, like, you just don't know. There's so much uncertainty. Maybe there will be another pandemic and that'll screw the Eagles again. Oh, that would, that would, yeah, pandemic would be bad because I can't handle another four-win season. Yeah, that's why I'll say. But because it only affects the eagle. That's the unfair part of it, yeah. But my other thing is, and we were talking about this a little bit before, and I'm not sure, like, these examples don't all, they're not all perfect.

But if the guy ends up being a really good right guard, right, isn't there some chance that they're just going to want to keep him there and draft Lane Johnson's replacement anyway? I mean, examples of this, Lane Johnson himself was supposed to be the left tackle of the future. He was so good at right tackle that they didn't really think about moving him to left tackle after all those years of him playing right tackle at that level. I know it's a little different to go from guard to tackle. Landon Dickerson was drafted with the thought that maybe he would move to center.

No one's talking about that now. And I think the main reason, I know they drafted Cam Durgan's, but the main reason is he's so good at guard. Sure. Right? So when you're really good at the position that you play for two years, there's going to be some hesitancy to move off of that. And then what have you done?

You've drafted a guard in the first round. You know what I mean? And it's like, Yes, but you drafted an all pro guard or a pro ball. Sure. So I think that's the nuance there is, is let's say, you know, for the purpose of, let's say it's Jay C. Leather, okay,

who I think really fits that description, okay? And he turns into these next two years, he's what Sean Andrews was, right? He's like a high level pro bowl caliber guard. The whole thing with me, with positional value. And this is where Bo's correct when we talk about Brock Bowler's,

is that if you're taking a position like that and I'll put guard in the mix there early in the draft or in the first round, the threshold needs to be like pro bowl, all pro player. So if the outcome there is what was with Landon Dickerson or was with Lane Johnson, like you said,

or he's one of the best players in the league at his position, I'm okay spending the 22 pick, the 22nd pick on a guy who's one of the best players, at his position, even if it's not a premium position. Yeah, no, I understand. I mean, and maybe we shouldn't be conditioning on him being that good,

because that's not a high probability outcome. But it seems like with all these examples of people who were drafted, played one position with the thought that maybe they'd move, Lane Johnson, again, Landon Dickerson, Isaac Samalo, to some degree. Jason Kelsey just didn't retire. Didn't retire. Yeah, but I think that that context matters. Like, Lane didn't move because Peters ended up playing longer than they expected.

Like if Peters had left after two years, they might have moved late. And if Kelsey retired, then, you know, Cam Juergens wouldn't have played guard. And so, like, unless Lane Johnson's playing five more years, I don't think that if this guy's great at right guard, they wouldn't just move him to right tackle. Maybe that's right. And also, right guard to right tackle would be a promotion in terms of, like, how much guys get paid. That's true. Whereas Cam Juergens is sort of getting a demotion, right? Like, he's moving from a position where he would get paid more to a position where he's going to get paid less when he gets that second contract.

And I think it's, I don't know, like the thing that I thought of is, I was just thinking of examples where this actually happened, where they drafted a guy. He played one position and then he moved. Cam Juergens is going to be the first one that I remember where it's actually happening on the Eagles. And it's working in part because honestly, he wasn't that good at right card. Like if he had been unbelievably good at right guard, why not keep him there? Like you've got yourself a really good right guard and find a center. You know what I mean? Like find some veteran center or something like and then you don't have this whole.

It's possible. But it's because he wasn't that great. at right guard and maybe they didn't expect them to be undersized, et cetera. They like having big guards, you know, whatever. I just think, like, I don't know, it's a little telling that the one time it worked just because the guy wasn't that good at the first. But they also haven't drafted that many, like, they've had such stability on the offensive line that there haven't been that many guys who were not drafted to just be backups, right?

Yeah. I think Tyler Smith from Dallas is like the guy who fits this prototype, like a tackle. They're going to let him play guard until it's ready to go. And then they let Tyrant Smith go. and now he's going to be their starting left tackle. Right, and we'll see how that goes. And that's a good example. I just think with the defense being the clear side of the ball that needs.

So prospect agnostic without knowing the guys, the position that you would feel most excited about at 22 is corner? I think so. And the reason is, like, I know the Fangio can hide corners more than some defense coordinators because he has them play cover six and one of the corners is sort of hit in or whatever, all that stuff. You're not hiding last year's version. of James Bradbury.

Sure. Like, you're not hiding, like, you know, Slay's getting older. Like, you don't know if he's going to have that drop off this year or next year either. The other guys on the team, I mean, like, you're just projecting. Like, is Keeley Ringo going to actually be able to start? Like, I don't know. Like, do I want him to be the starter on day one? Probably not, right?

Well, I think, I think corner would be the one. I would have loved, you know, trading for a guy like Sneed, but, you know, a day one corner would excite me more than the right tackle of the future, who I think. could be drafted in the future. Okay, and I hear your point there. It's interesting you framed it with 2018 with Dallas Goddard. From my understanding, and I feel strong saying this publicly, the Eagles weren't necessarily targeting a tight end.

What they were targeting was an offensive skill player. They thought that they needed to add a young offensive skill player to that mix. If they stayed at 32 that year, my understanding is Cortland Sutton would have been the pick. Christian Kirk was someone that they were hoping. would fall to them where they were drafting. When Kirk went off the board, the last player they had in that skill position player bucket was Dallas Goddard.

So the tight end log jam there was more because they were looking for a skill player. And so the way that I would equate that this year is, I do think at 22, they're more apt to take a right tackle who can play right guard in year one. And that makes the Amarius Mims question a little more nuanced.

And I think that's where someone like lay them, someone like Falano, someone like Fawaga, would make more sense. It certainly seems that way. Yeah. So I think they would really need to be convinced that this is like a rare player who in a different year is a top 15 pick to have a guy sit for two years in the first round. I think they would be more apt to go with like the Lander Dickinson route like you mentioned where his eventual position is Lane Johnson's replacement. He can immediately help us here at. Right.

And then the question becomes, was it wise? Obviously, everything's a matter of tradeoffs, but was it wise to take a guy who is not projected to be as good a tackle just because he can play guard? Right. And now you're thinking, and that's like a short-term thing where you're sacrificing the longer. If I have Ameris Mims graded as a better prospect than Troy Fautano,

I would take him over the guy who has a more immediate path to playing time. I think that is the point of the draft. Right. Yeah. I did think Brandon Thorisdard. George's answer yesterday was really telling when we asked him about right guard and he said they should look to upgrade over Steen. He mentioned like there's a pathway to Steen being a functional starter but he didn't mention like Steen becoming, you know, a high level starter there and there could

be a school of thought in that building. I'm not saying this is how they think. This is me speculating that right guard is as much of a need or more of a need than a starting corner right now. Yeah, I think that's possible. Just because of the way. And now listen, like there, you know, there, there are plenty of false negatives of offensive linemen in year one. Like Tyler Steen could absolutely grow into be a good starting guard. But yeah, based on what we saw last year, I don't think they can pen him in to be a good starter. He played one game was a complete disaster.

His best play was the fumble he recovered when A.J. Brown ran into DeAndre Swift. He recovered that fumble. And the reason you recovered it is because he got knocked back so early. on the on the rep that he was on the ground already and and the fumble kind of rolled into his love. Brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. He never was going to run into a guy? I mean, to be able to read the play like that is just, you don't see that from a rookie normally.

Now, it's easier to get replacement level production from right guard than it is from corner. But to the professor's point, it would be easier for them to hide a corner, I think, in this defense. Then would be to hide a right guard in this offense for what they want this offense to be. Well, especially with center being a question mark. Exactly. You could hide a guard if it was Jason Kelsey playing next to Elaine Johnson. But yeah, with Juergens not being a sure thing, then yeah, I think that is a concern. All right.

Good conversation. Anything else you want to talk about, professor? No, I don't think so. I think we're good. I'll be back, hopefully. I hope so. Yeah. And you two were disappointed that the elevator was working today.

I was. I was working on my sprints. I was going to challenge Zach to a race. You would win. I heard it's a narrow staircase. So I was going to use the boxout. Oh, okay. You're going to play dirty.

Yeah, oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, like in any race. You don't run straight. You run kind of into the guy, you know. I respect that. Yeah. Okay. All right, that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.Y. Eagle Show.

I think we're going to do a little something different on Monday. We're going to try to put together our approximation of what the Eagles, like, you know, top 100 stacking might look like so that we can set ourselves up for success on draft day. But that'll be a fun little thing to do. We're going to continue going through the prospect of the positions over the course of next week. Some more guests coming up. So we look forward to that. Oh, I got to get the son.

Sorry. Claire's on the chat. Okay. Tomorrow 9 a.m. T-ball season opener. Ooh. My son of Wren's team going up against the team that Claire coaches that her son is on. So it's going to be a big rivalry game.

Yeah, a big rivalry game. That's the problem with T-ball is. You can't give a little chin music. I would say where it is, but all the sickos would show up and then be weird. so I won't do that. Dennis, tweet more. But yeah, just, you know, I don't want to trash talk. Will you tweet us the result, at least?

I'm sure Claire will be happy to share it next week. All right, well, we look forward to finding out how that goes. And also, Zach, I mean, you must have felt so much pride when the recommendation from Coach Flynn was get to that center. You're like, as if I didn't already know that, got a touchdown last week. Yeah, but you know what it worried me? As the opposing coaches might be watching. Oh.

Are you using all 30 plays that you printed out or whatever? No, we struggled with that. Streamlined it. Streamlined it. But I made this joke over text. It's actually not a joke. It's a true story. We have the team that's most in touch with their feelings of any team you can imagine

because I introduced motion for the purpose of like trying to just free you guys up. And to signal motion, I was telling them like scream, the tone of the quarterback, scream motion, motion. And instead, he screams e-motion, emotion, emotion, emotion. So we have a team that before every snaps saying emotion, emotion, emotion, so yeah. It's like your worst nightmare. I'm in touch with my emotion.

That's more intimidating for the defense. Yeah. It could be a psychological thing like Hayden Fry's Pink locker room, right? Just like that. Yes. Good stuff. We look forward to finding out what the results are from all the competitions this weekend. That'll do it for this episode of the PHLY Eagle Show.

Thanks for watching. Talk to you on Monday. And, oh, by the way, very quickly, C.J. Uzama. Oh, yes. Eagles signed C.J. Uzama, 31-year-old tight end. He's entering year 10. Ended last season with a knee injury, but been a productive player. Seven years with Cincinnati. Two years with the Jets. The Eagles like the draft proof of their roster. And what I mean by that is they like to basically not say we need the force position X. This has no effect on their draft. As a matter of fact, it's the other way around. It's done. So they don't have to worry about this. They can come out of the draft of the out of tight end and still have a functional. depth chart, but I still think tight ends in play in the draft. Well done. Six tight ends on the roster right now, which is kind of funny. Can you name all six?

Oh, of course, Dallas Goddard, CJs, I'm a great Calcutterra, Alberta O, Nootongiai, and EJ Jenkins. EJ Jenkins. There you got a CJ and an EJ. So that's important. Looking forward to DJ in the draft. Okay, now that really will do it for the PHA My Eagles podcast. We will talk to you on Monday.

Thanks to Andrew for producing today. And as always, we love you. the mayor.