PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | DeVonta Smith stays a Philadelphia Eagles with four-year extension, plus NFL Draft big board talk

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

The Eagles started the week off with some morning news Monday morning, announcing they had agreed to terms on what amounts to a four-year deal with wide receiver DeVonta Smith that will eventually pay him $25 million per year. That’s the same per-year average as Smith’s teammate A.J. Brown.Zach Berman and Bo Wulf unpack the news before also doing their best to approximate the Eagles’ draft board ahead of next week’s NFL Draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So I'll Eagles pod on a Monday high noon, Bo Wolf, Zach Berman, and I promise we will get to the draft stuff. But we have real Eagles news at the top of the show. Zach Berman, why don't you give us the stone cold newsman update? Devante Smith is signing a three-year contract extension with the Eagles. But there's more to this. The Eagles are exercising as fifth-year options. So the three-year contract extension actually starts in the 2026 season.

So it's 2026, 2027, 2028. Devante Smith, of course, already under contract for this season. Does it start in the 2025 season? No, that's the fifth year. Yes, he's under contract this year. Got it. Next year said, that's what I'm saying. So it's really, yeah, it's like a five year.

It's really a five year deal. The numbers have come out for multiple reporters, three years, 75 million in new money. But if you look at it based on the contract that he's already under, it's really like a five-year $98 million contract. So bottom line, the Eagles have one of their best players locked up now

for the next five seasons and it's, we'll get into kind of the dynamics of the deal, but the Eagles are able to get this done before Justin Jefferson, before Jamar Chase, before Amman Rase,

Brown, before Jalen Wadle, right? C.D. Lamb. C.D. Lamb, exactly. And they, there's some continuity on the offensive side. And because they were able to exercise that fifth year option, it allows Devante to get the money now.

He doesn't need to wait two years. But the Eagles can also spread this out a little more than you would if you just signed someone to a three-year deal. So we'll get into it, but it certainly makes sense from both sides if you think about the incentives for both sides. We have been talking about this for a couple months now,

that the expectation was that this was coming at some point. Eagles would have wanted to get this done sooner than later. Um, my initial read here from all the terms you talked about, pretty team friendly, don't you think? Yes. Uh, that's, that's my read too. Now, the like the new money, 25 million a year, that's, that's really good. That's puts them among the top five receivers.

But it doesn't start for another three seasons. Exactly. By which point, it'll probably be at the bottom end of the top receivers. Yeah. So that's, so that's kind of the push pull here. And so team friendly in that regard. Now the flip side of that is the, the, the, the signing bonus, and we'll see what the signing bonus is, that kicks in right away.

Devante gets that right away. So he would, he would have needed to wait two years for that, potentially a franchise tag, right? So now he gets, he gets that money right away. That's, that's the incentive from the player's perspective and he gets locked in. But certainly, I would imagine if Devante hit the free agent market in 2026 or, you know, after the 2025 season, then he's getting much more. a three or $75 million contract, he would just need to wait two years to do that. So it does strike me as good terms for the Eagles, but I can understand the incentive from

Devante's perspective. Now, because of the way it's structured, there is the case that maybe like part of the Hassan Reddick trade was to free up cash to spend on this now. Do you think those two are related or do you think that because the money doesn't really kick in for a couple years that they're not really that related? Well, it's, it is cash up front. and we've talked about it on this show that one of the benefits

of how the Eagle structured contracts, there's some teams, and I hear this from GMs, they stand up there, and they say, we're going to pay as you go, right? Well, pay as you go makes sense in terms of you don't get these capits

if you cut a guy, but the reason the Eagles are able to structure contracts like they do, they give the bonuses up front. The player gets the money up front. So, yeah, so any cash that the Eagles have on hand can now be allocated to Devante, right?

Cash that they were going to pay to Hassan goes to Devante. Historically, they've been able to pay. Like, they've been willing to pay. So I don't know if I would make it one to one, but yeah, certainly cash that, was going to go to one player, is now going to go to a different player.

We were, like, sort of wondering why it even took this long. I think there's at least, like, a 1% chance that this offer was just on the table for a couple months, and Devonte just hadn't checked his phone. Like, hadn't bothered to even answer any questions. about it's like, oh, yeah, I'll get to it eventually.

Too busy just sitting in a dark room. Yeah, he's coming to Philly for the start of the offseason program today. He looks at his phone. Finally, yeah. Oh, man, they have this offer. Well, I guess, you know. This unread message from six weeks ago. And this has been something.

Meanwhile, the Eagles think he's stewing. You know, I know one takeaway that other people have had on this is that he gets the same per year as AJ Brown. there's there's nuance there a j's new money kicked in in the 2023 season this past year devante's new money kicked in the 2026 season or kicks in in the 2026 season presumably a contract in 2026 would would be a higher cost but from like on a surface level you're not saying you're paying devonte more than a jay you're not saying you're paying a jay more than devonte like there is probably the the number that had come out was was 25 million a year we had we were we were talking about that number so he gets that from the team's perspective you let the agent frame that however

they want to frame it exactly because it doesn't really matter to you yeah so in in essence it's a it's a five-year 98 million or 97 98 million dollar deal the same way like a j brown was a four-year hundred million dollar deal but the eagles had the last year of his rookie contract also so that was really like a five-year 102 million dollar deal or whatever it was so yeah so that's that There's the public framing of it, and then there's the bookkeeping of it. And from the bookkeeping of it, the equals are looking at this as a five-year deal. And I also think from a like, how are these guys going to coexist into the extended future? Like the important thing here is that now that Devante is locked up and has his deal,

he doesn't need to be like incentivized to chase extra receptions or like extra benchmarks to fight for the next contract anytime soon, right? whereas AJ Brown is now the one with the clock ticket. Yes, you're right. But it's not like the clock is nearing zero right now. I think there's like a two-year window here where maybe a one-year, two-year window where the Eagles don't need to be worrying about that per se. There is going to be a point in time where you say, all right, can you pay two, I guess can you pay two wideouts, this money also?

So the optics of it, like everyone's competitive, right? There's a lot there. But I think the Eagles have a window here of one to two years where this is not a question. I mean, it's also, I mean, just from a, like, you look at the average over the course of the deal, it's kind of wild that he's making like the same amount of money as Lennon Dickerson. Yeah. Like, I mean, I like Lennon Dickerson too. But he is so much more valuable.

It really, like, it's hard not to view this as like, as not a steal, but a big win for the Eagles. That's good value for the Eagle, sure. Yeah. And that's the, like, it's the old Joe Banner thing of trying to get the deal done early for this reason. Like the incentive for the players, the leverage on the player's side is always going to free agency. Okay. But when you're a first round pick, unlike a second round pick, like Landed Dickerson was one year out of free agency.

When you're a first round pick, you say, all right, you can wait, but you have to wait two. years, right? So you can sign for $75 million in new money now, or you can wait to sign, let's say, 100 plus million in new money two years from now. There's, there's different schools of thought in terms of what's best. Sometimes you're like, all right, there's, there's injury risk, there's performance risk. Like there's, there's so many variables at play. You get locked up now. That's the incentive for the player. And I also like, to be fair, we're talking about those other deals. But, I mean, DeVante Smith is awesome. He is not Jamar Chase.

He is not C.D. Lamb yet. Justin Jefferson, you know, he's probably better than T. Higgins. But, like, all those other guys who are going to get paid. Like, those guys are bona fide A1 guys who have proven it. And Devante has been awesome. But if you were to take away, AJ Brown, who knows exactly if he would produce it at quite that level. Also, the benefit of doing this now, too, is he's going to hit the market again, you know, 28, 29 years old. right it's it's not as if he signed like a a five-year extension that kicks in he signed a three-year

extension uh so he'll he'll have another shot at this um before he turns 30 anybody else that we should be like aware of in terms of potential contract extensions looming now that they've gotten dickerson and mylotta and devonte smith done well the the player that i think people speculate on is milton williams i'm curious your thoughts do you think milton williams is an extension candidate from from his perspective i wonder like play this year out and see what you can get on the on the open market i mean that he strikes me look look far be it for for for me to give milton williams contract advice he's he's he he's fine on his own but there's there's there's there's going to be jellon carter here jordan davis plays a different type of role but the eagles have other guys that

they're paying like i i think williams is a good player i think williams is is one of those guys who who could get paid more elsewhere than he does here That said, the Eagles are losing Josh Sweat, or I shouldn't say losing Josh. Josh Sweat's contract expiring at the end of the year. Brandon Graham's contract expiring at the end. Like the Eagles need to figure out who's a part of this defense beyond this season. And if they identify Milton Williams as that type of player, he would be the most likely candidate. Yeah.

I think from the Eagles perspective, I would definitely be interested in signing Milton Williams to an extension, especially one that is relatively team friendly, right, because he doesn't have these gaudy sack numbers that would get him paid a ton on the open market. I think you're probably right that if he hit the open market, he would make a lot more than he could make in an extension this year. So it's up to him whether he wants to bet on himself. But, I mean, he's 25 years old.

He's this incredibly athletic player with position versatility and the ability to make plays as a pass rusher. I think there's like untapped upside with him left still. And especially if Jordan Davis is not going to turn into the pass rusher that the Eagles initially thought that he could, Yeah, I would love to lock up Milton Williams. I don't know how he feels about that prospect. I just want to raise attention to this because I was thinking about it in the drive-in this morning,

on the drive-in this morning. And we say the Eagles like to get these deals done early and they don't let homegrown talent out the door. It is true. Like if you think about the last 10 to 12 years, the only like really productive draft pick who they let leave was Milton was. as Miles Sanders, maybe Halapulavati Vaitai, right? But just this list, this is since Hallie Roseman took over. Landed Dickerson, Devonte Smith, Jalen Hertz, Jalen Hertz, Dallas Goddard, Isaac Sayamalu, Carson Wendez, Zach Ertz, Lane Johnson, Vinnie Curry, Michael Kendrick's, Fletcher Cox, Jason Kelsey, Riley Cooper, and Brendan Graham.

Oof, man, boy, does Riley Cooper stick out like a source on there. Those are the Eagles draft picks who signed multi-year contract extensions with the team. Nate Allen, Jalen Mills, Derek Barnett returned on one-year deals. Nelson Aguilur played on a fifth-year option. But you look at some of those names there. I mean, obviously, Kelsey, Johnson, Cox, Graham, Eagles Hall of Famers. Devante Smith, Landon Dickerson, Jordan Milata,

Josh Sweat, like, Pro Bowl-level players there. J-Wurts, obviously, you know, franchise quarterback. Carson, when they signed him, franchise quarterback, Zach Ertz, you know, pro-bowl-level player. I think Eagles Hallfamer, you know. Don't say so? Yeah, so, yeah, so I look at that. Better than the guy whose number, they soft retired.

Yeah, Prince, that's true. And on that list, 13 of those deals were done before the player even, like, reached his contract year. I saw a tweet from Greg Erzantz, from the NFL.com's Greg Erzenthal, friend of the show, what, 4Gs? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Now, 3Gs. 3Gs, sorry? 60% G.

60% G's, yeah. Greg Rosenthal said that, like, the Eagles are a team that, like, prepares for the test and the Cowboys and the Jaguars are teams that, like, study the night before. I'm not saying the Eagles have this all figured out, but there is a large enough sample size to know that if you're a good player drafted by the team, they're going to try to sign you as soon as they can. Well, let me ask you this, Zach, as a something of an Eagles historian of at least recent vintage.

Why do you think it is that all those years ago, Joe Banner made this a priority? Yeah, so I'll give Joe credit for it. Well, so actually, the NFL has changed the contract rules, the NFL and the NFLPA. Joe and the Eagles used to try to sign guys

like two years in, you know, as soon as they could, right? And they got some good deals there. And basically their perspective was kind of what I outlined that the team can save significant money by acting early. If you make good bets, and you're not going to hit on all your bets, but if you make good bets, and from the player's perspective, like you get life-changing money earlier than risking going to the open market. As I said, injury risk, performance risk, there are a handful of variables that could

take place. Yeah, I mean, that list of guys you had, how many of them turned down. out to be bad contracts. Carson Wentz. Yeah, I mean, Michael Kendricks. Probably overpaid, yeah. Yeah, but. But yeah, I mean, more often than not, if you like what you've seen a guy in-house who

you know better than everybody else after three seasons, yeah. I mean, it's a good bet. And it's actually like, I know we compare it to the rest of the league, but it is kind of wild that this is not how most of the league operates. No. And it's, well, because there's a few things. First off, you have to be willing to pay a lot of cash or a lot of cash or a right like there needs to be an incentive for the player to sign the deal number one number two

uh you you need to have that the type of like midterm and long term strategic thinking to be willing to see what your books are going to look like three four five years out right that's that's that's that's part of this uh and yeah it's it's it's something like i've i've spoken to people about this and at one point the Eagles projected that the type of cap savings that they had from these types of contracts allowed them to go and sign a marquee free agent on the open market just from what they think the delta between the contract they signed the player on and what that player would have hit on the open market but again like the players don't do this blindly they know that if you go into free agency you're going to make the most possible money that you can.

That said, there is considerable risk in doing so. You know? And so I think that's the push pull here from the player's perspective. Yeah, Shea correctly points out that the Raleigh Cooper contract did not age well either. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Although to say that it didn't age well is unfair to the fact that it looked ridiculous at the time.

At the time. Yeah. Yes. There you go. All right. Well, the players are making a bet on. themselves, Zach. And you can make a bet too if you open up that Bet Parks app on your phone because we are brought to you by the Bet Parks app. Get in the zone with Bet Parks Sports app. The money is in the moments. What events are coming up? I think we all know. Big game. Wednesday night. The Sixers

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You're more about the mouth popper than I am. That's okay. Somebody's got to do it. Someone's got to do it. Last thing before we get on to our approximation of the Eagles big board, Zach, which is a fun exercise that we underwent over the weekend. Do you think that this, the question is in the chat, do you think this affects A.J. Brown's future with the team in any way?

Not short term, no. I do think there's a one to two year window here where the Eagles have, from the way I see it, the best wide receiver combination in the NFL. I know the dolphins, the Bengals could push back on that. I'm willing to like both would be totally reasonable. There's some days I might take the Bengals. Some days I might take the dolphins. I really like AJ and Devante.

So I don't think this affects them this season. Maybe after the season they have to take a look at it. But I think like... What about Wondale Robinson and Darius Slayton? Yeah, that doesn't do it for me. No. No, nor does... My league neighbor soon enough.

Nor does Michael Wilson. and then, well, it's going to be Marvin Harrison Jr. Soon, I imagine, but I don't know. You think in New York? What? No, the Cardinals. Well, I'm talking about, I was talking about the Giants. Oh.

I said Juan Dale Robinson and Darrya Slate. Yeah, then I was switching to. Well, I know, but I was, okay, whatever. We're talking past each other here. Yeah, Wondell Robinson and Darry Slaten and I said, but it could be Maliknavers. It could be Malikna and you said, no, it will be Merrin Harrison. No, I was talking about the Cardinals. Well, yeah, okay.

I was just thinking. I don't know why you went. into the Cardinals. I was thinking of other bad wide receiver combinations in the NFL. We forgot their best wide receiver. Your boy. Greg Dorch. Jake Dorch.

Yep. Not even close. So I think cap-wise, they can make this work for a year to two years. What do you think? Do you think the personality dynamics are the issue here? Do you think the cap is the issue here? The next contract for AJ is the issue here. What's the...

I don't think that the cap is the issue because as you talked it like, it's not really going to even be a cap crunch for another three years, right? And if you have really good players, you'll find a way to make it work cap-wise. I do think that eventually I would be super. Like I do not think that they're going to be the starting wide receivers together for the Eagles for the next five years. I just think that's not how the NFL works. I think eventually something will push will come to shove somewhere, but I don't think that needs to be anytime soon.

Yeah, I do think offensively, at least, there's a window here, right? you're looking at Saquan as a two-year investment, right? Dallas Goddard, I don't think, is on the team beyond the next, like, beyond two years from now, right? Or in this role beyond two years from now, I really think you're looking at your 2024, 2025 season as the window with this core group of talent. And that's why when we talk about the Eagles drafting a wide receiver or drafting a tight end, right? There is going to be a transition here maybe after the 20th. 20 to 25 season where you have some guy like you have your offensive line in place you have

jane hertz in place you have devonte in place maybe you have a j in place too but when you look at like the age and the contracts certainly at running back a tight end um there's going to be an eventual transition so there's a chance here in 24 and 25 when the eagles could have at least on paper one of the best offenses in the NFL all right well let's see if they are going to buttress that with offense in the draft, Zach. Let's talk a little bit about our big boards here. Now, part of the reason for this to lift the curtain, we want to get some graphics in for the actual draft show weekend.

So we want to get this approximation of the Eagles big board together. This is not how Zach and I would rank the board ourselves. This is our guess as to how the Eagles might have it ranked. And so we each went 1 to 80, and we're averaging these out. and we're going to hash out some of these orderings on the show before we can, you know, submit it to the graphics department. Does that sound good, Zach?

Works for me, yes. All right. Now, we also decided. Now, I just want to interject real quick. As you were saying that, I'm not as good at divorcing what I think compared to, like, how I think the Eagles will think, because I've almost trained my mind to try to think the way the Eagles will think on things. Oh, okay. Right?

So, no. So there are certain. So I think you've just become Howie Roseman? You just, I don't think you've been accepted yourself into him. No, but when you try to put your mind in the mind of the people in that building over 13 years, then there are times when like you start to prioritize things or emphasize things that might be important to them. But if I was covering the cowboys, it could be different, right? So, yeah, so I, that's a roundabout way of saying that I'm not as good at like, this is what I,

what's the, it's the forecasting versus the evaluating, right? Sometimes I kind of meld those two things together. Okay. Well, let's see how the, how the process goes about. We have also decided not to do quarterbacks here. Yes. No, they're not trapped on a quarterback. You know, I'm sure that they have done their homework on these guys, but there's no way for,

I mean, they would just be at the top of the board. It's not that interesting. All right. So we both have Marvin Harrison, Jr. as number one on the board. So he will be number one. I think we can agree about that. You have Roma Dunzee number two.

And then Malik Neighbors 3 and Joe Alt 4. I have Malik Neighbors 2, Dallas Turner 3, and Roma Dunzee 4 by the averages that puts neighbors at 2, a Dunzee at 3, Turner at 4, Alt at 5. Do you have any objection to that ordering at the top? Totally good on that. Okay. Now, how do you feel about, I mean, they're not going to get Dallas Turner, right? He's going to go too early.

But I just, this is one where knowing what the Eagles care about, what they think about, things, position value-wise. That's why I put him over Adonze. All the way I put number three. Yeah. So for full disclosure here, for the, for the audience, watching, the viewing audience can see this. I have my spreadsheets. Old school. And I have them in tears.

And so, yeah, I tend to view the draft horizontally as opposed to just vertically. Yeah, so do I, Zach. But that's not the exercise. Both. I'm trying to do a show where I'm explaining my thought process to the audience. So I have a tier where it's the major trade tier. Sure. What I was saying is that I have no issue with how this tier is sequence.

If you wanted to, if Dallas Turner is above a duncee, I am totally fine with that. I would have an issue if, like, if Terry and Arnold was above a dunzee, right? Or something like that. Like, but I think of the tier as, yeah, I'm good with however this is sequenced. And I think we kind of are in agreement on what this top five should be. I love Dallas Turner as a prospect. I have no issue with, if he'd be above any of the wide receivers we talk about, the position need and the, uh,

position value. So I will tell you this. The player in the top 20 who we both have in the top 20 who we had the biggest difference on is Laotu Latu, the edge rusher from UCLA. I have him at number five. You have him at number 16. Tell me why you are not down on him, but why you would expect that the Eagles would not have him higher. The medical question, right? I mean, this is someone who was not, who when he was at Washington was like medically retired, right? So, yeah, that's kind of my question there. And I think the tape is great, but I don't think he's like an off the charts athlete. And so if you have the medical question and you have the off the chart and you don't have the off the chart athleticism, which like Jaylon Phillips, when he had that medical question, he was kind of athletically was really superior.

I have him in the stick and pick category, not in the slight trade up category. So you have him. You've got major trade, slight trade, stick and pick. You've got him in stick and pick. I have a stick and pick. Exactly. Interesting. Now, let me also ask you about you have a difference there between Olu Foshano and J.C.

Laytham, one of them in major trade, the other in slight trade. Why a differentiation there? Yeah, good question. I love J.C. Latham for the Eagles. And I think he's like a day one guard. as I've said, who can play tackle. I think Fashana, who's an elite tackle, who there's been some post-hype fading on him,

but I just love the player that I think he's a better tackle prospect than Latham is. And so that's why I have him above that. But again, he's kind of on the bottom of my major trade part. Okay, so just to set it up here, Marvin Harrison 1, Malik Neighbors 2, Roma Dunzee 3, Dallas Turner 4, Joe Alt 5, Olu Foshano is 6, Terry and Arnold, the Alabama corner is 7, and then J.C. Latham is 8. Those are the 8 players that we both had in our respective top 10s. Then comes Laotoula 2 because I had him 50, you had him 16th. After that, rounding at the top 10 is Quinion Mitchell, the Toledo Corner. You had a 10, I had a 12. Okay, yeah, I would actually veer more toward you there In that when you think of the Eagles profile

He's a small school or a mid-major guy if you will Non-BCS Well, tell me this because the next two are Troy Fautano and Amarius Mims I wouldn't mind bumping Mitchell below both of those guys If you wanted to, you wanted to move things around Yeah, I am with you there Okay, I'm with you there

I was looking at him more when Mitchell's going to be off the board but you probably shouldn't stack a board that that way by the way in the chat i have this i printed it off so when we're doing the show i don't have to keep jumping back and forth i obviously have this on my computer i'm not like a 70 year old man who needs to print everything off so uh yeah i just want to make that abundantly clear sometimes when you have a bunch of tabs you can trip up i think it's reasonable and it's not i one thing is i listen back to the show i want to speak more clue clearly and fluently and stop buying time as I'm looking for something on my computer. I've got your back here.

I think it's reasonable. Thank you. It is a funny visual, but I think it's reasonable. It's not all on one piece of paper. I have two pieces of paper here as well. All right. So then after that top 12, we go to Brian Thomas from LSU, who is one spot ahead of Brock Bowers. Now, Brock Bowers is another player in the top 20, who we had a big difference on.

You had him at nine. I had him at 19. Yeah. I probably had them too high. Look, I get it. You and Sheel will hit me over the head over the tight end history. Do you really believe that they would take Brock? I mean, you haven't met nine, but in this area we have, following Brock Bowers is going to be Cooper DeGine and Talise Fuwanga.

You really believe they would take Brock Bowers over both of those guys? I mean, if they're all on the board, probably not. unless they have Brock Powers in a tier of like future all pro right and they don't have Fuauga or Dijin in the future all pro tier that's that's the only nuance here is that I understand the position part of it from an evaluation perspective when when they have the the like future role projection if they view Brock Bowers as a top of the league player as a blue chip player then he could be in a different tier. But no, I won't fight you on the Brock Bowers thing.

I'd be happy to put Fulaga over to Dijin. My gripe is, or I would push back more. And Dijian over Bowers? Yes. Yeah. I would push back more on like, I really like the gene. If there were other corners who were like pushed over to Jean, then I think the gene's a really good player.

So just knowing the Eagles, would you put Fulanga over to Jean or Dijian? or Dejean over Fawanga? Fawanga, DeGine, Bauer's goes 14, 15, 60. Now, there's one other player in here who we have a big difference on, and that's Byron Murphy, the defensive tackle from Texas. I have him at 14.

You've got them down at 26. Yeah, I don't think they're going to keep spending draft cap on D tackles. And I think Murphy's kind of... Certainly not a position that they care about. It is a position that they care about. It's also a position where they spent their last two first round picks.

I don't know if Murphy is the type of exception that you do it. He's like he's six foot one, right? It's undersized. I think he's Aaron Donald? So is he Aaron Donald? No, of course not. If you told me he's Aaron Donald, yeah. I like Murphy.

I think Murphy, I don't want to compare Murphy to Andre Dillard. I think it's one of these things in a bad defensive tackle year. he's the top guy in a bad defense tackle year. And I think that there's just positions that are more of a need that they still value, where there's talent that I find comparable or better. Here's what I actually found clarifying about this exercise is when you lay it out like this, like the odds of them getting someone at 22 that they're going to be happy with. Yeah, I'm with you.

Are low. fairly long, right? I mean, I think that as much as I have talked about, like not wanting Brock Bowers in the first round, I would sort of view him as like the last guy who would be acceptable if you sit at 22 and take. And even then, like I wouldn't feel great about it. I would probably rather, and I would say more like, you know,

Fulangor Dijin, but even that, you're talking about like 13, 14 players. Now, there's four quarterbacks who are going to go. So all you need is four teams to deviate from your board to get one of your guys. But that high in the draft, like the likelihood of that, it's not great. And so, like, this exercise made me feel a little bit worse about the player they may get at 22 if they stay there.

And maybe that's why they won't stay. Yeah, I'm with you there. Like, you always hear how we say, we need to have 22 guys on our board that we're comfortable taking. I don't know if there's 22 guys where you say, all right, we're happy with this guy at 22. So I think you need to have a trade worked out on both sides. Like, all right, we're going to get up to 15 and we're going to get up to 16. The other thing that, and we'll get into this more next week, but when you look at the needs of the teams drafting in the late teens and like a 20,

you know, you look at the Bengals, look at the Steelers, there's teams that are going to be in the market. You look at the Rams. There's teams that are going to be in the market for offensive tackle. So the Eagles might need to make a jump. If there's an offensive tackle that they really like, you're talking about a jump maybe to like right past the Saints pick to try to get up there.

All right. So to keep this thing going, at 17 is going to be Jared Verse. And that's one where I feel like, you know, that would be relatively disappointing if that was the pick there. Number 18 is going to be Tyler Guyton, who I had at 17, you had at 21. Next up is going to be Nate Wiggins,

the cornerback from Clemson. And then we have a tie to break between Byron Murphy and Chop Robinson. who we both put at 20. I would argue for Byron Murphy over at Chop Robinson. I'm fine with that. He's the higher rated player on the boards of many that I respect. So certainly.

And then you get to Koolaid McKinstree, the cornerback from Alabama, who is our number 22 players if you want to just, you know, joke about the number. How would you feel about that? If they stuck and stuck and took him at 22, I think that would be relatively underwhelming. Who's 18 again? 18 is Tyler Geithen. Okay. So that's probably more realistic when you think of...

Right, the four quarterbacks. The four quarterbacks going. Yeah. That is actually like I could accept that. Okay. You can sell me on this as a guy who we think has Pro Bowl upside. I would actually prefer him to verse even though I had verse two spots ahead. But yeah, I feel like Kula McKinstry is like, you know, you would want to get a little bit back for taking him in the first round.

Yeah, I think with with Koyd McKinstree, you would need to determine. what's the cornerback tier because I actually think when you get past Coit right so we talk about Arnold, Mitchell, DeGine Wiggins and McKinstree I think there is a drop off there's a big drop in corners here

we don't have another one until about 30 yeah so it could be the type of thing where you're like all right maybe this isn't the ideal value at 22 but we want to come out of this with a corner or an offensive lineman right and there's a drop off there and it's almost like the

the baseball argument like baseball you can't trade your draft picks so you're like well we really like this guy and this is the player that we want but if we don't take him now we're not going to get him so it could be the type of thing where all right this guy is actually the 25th 26th person but he's in this tier and we want to take a corner

or tackle from this tier well and this is I mean two years your horizontal point. It is unlikely that they're going to have, I mean, they will have talked it through ahead of time to know who they're going to take, but it's unlikely they're going to have, you know, significantly different grades for guys at this level.

It's going to come down to preference both like position value and how the board may be stacked the rest of the draft. Yeah, I heard by the way, so, or no, so Dan Bruegler and his coy, McKinstree, um, right up, right up capsule.

He compared him to James Bradbury. And like that's not a bad thing to me. James Bradbury's had a good career. Yeah, I don't think that's a bad thing. Yeah, if they can get like eight years of James Bradbury, that's a, that's a real good years. That's a really good pick, I'm saying. So, yeah, I was listening to a different show where it was like, oh, that, that scares you. And I'm like, I don't think that's scary.

I was like, no, that would, like, that would appeal to me. Well, yeah, I mean, but I mean, it's just a player comp. It doesn't, I'm not taking it as, this is who he's going to be. Okay. Yeah. I mean, if he turned into James Bradbury, of course. That's a good pick. Exactly.

All right. I just want to give James Bradbury a little love. I think he gets, he's getting knocked a lot. He's been a good player. Graham Barton, the Duke offensive lineman, comes in at 23. Then we have a three-way tie here to break Zach between. And this is very cute from just a group think of us. You have Xavier Worthy, A.D. Mitchell, A.D. Mitchell, Suea,

in order, 22, 23, 24. And I have them in order in reverse order, Suea, A. Eddie Mitchell, Xavier Worthy, 27, 28. We've clumped them together. I actually don't mind putting Xavier Worthy at the top of that list. That doesn't bother me. Yeah, and the reason... I'll take yours on that one.

I really like Mitchell. I said that on Friday's show. Worthy to me, you can't find that speed anywhere. So if you're talking about someone who has a chance to be, Sean Jackson has a chance to be tie rate killed, not in terms of like the player, but the impact on the game with terms of what that speed gives you, then the only time you're finding that is at the top of the draft.

All right. Another tie to break here between Jackson Powers Johnson and Johnny Newton, the defensive tackle from Illinois. I don't feel strongly in their way. I don't. I don't see the Jackson Powers Johnson thing either. I had a write up today on all p.hly.com where we look at the offensive lineman. And I said, I'm putting him in this first round category because he's expected to be

a first round pick, but I can't see the Eagles taking a center prospect in the first round. He is big enough that he could play guard. He could play guard. Yeah, I suppose so. So, I don't, yeah, I mean, I don't think they're taking a center. I think if they were drafting him, they would be drafting him as a guard. I'll go Newton there. It's fine with me.

We'll go Newton 27, Jackson, Powers, Johnson, 28. And another tie to break between Darius Robinson, the flexible in theory, defensive linemen from Missouri, who could play outside and inside, and Troy Franklin from Morgan, the wide receiver. Well, I like Troy Franklin here, and I think that... Another very cute little bit of Kisman. You have one at 30 and 34 out of the other at 30 and 34. Look at that.

We're... I want to dress like you. That's a sharp shirt. Shout out to Josh Tolentino. He says it looks like Beach Day for you. You know what the funniest one is? What's that? We both have the exact same number 69.

Who's that? Austin Booker. Okay. Apparently, we both have the, you know, the same daydreams about Austin Booker. I don't know what that means, but... I don't know exactly what it means. So, yeah, so Darius Robinson,

we didn't spend much time on him on the Edge Rush or Day because he is... When you have him as just an interior guy. Yeah, and you view him as an edge? Yeah, but I think I just, I would see the Eagles trying to sell me on Darius Robinson, like this power that he has, whereas... I mean, I think they like Troy Franklin too, but I think push come to shove, they would take the defensive line. Yeah, let's do that because Howard Roseman's on record saying that when all things are equal, they're going to take the lineman.

He said that with the Cam Juergens pick, right? He said when all things are equal, we're going to err on the side of the line of scrimmage. If you say you believe in something, your actions have to show it. All right, 31 is going to be Keon Coleman, the Florida State wide receiver. 32 is going to be Cooper Beebe, the Kansas State offensive lineman. 33, another nice little match here. We both have Edron Cooper, the Texas A&M linebacker at 36,

so he will be our number 33 player on our board. You like an Edron Cooper? He was not the highest rated linebacker on my board. You went Junior Colson? I did. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I like the speed. I like the ability to,

he's a difference maker in that regard. I mean, yeah, you would want someone bigger in size, but I do like Cooper. Tell me about Junior Colson because he's in this next grouping. I know you're a Michigan man. Yes. You watch a lot of Junior Colson.

Yeah, watched a lot of Jr. Colson. I really liked it. Like the write-up and everything. The profile reads very well to me and in terms of a guy that the Eagles would like. It's almost like two Nkobi-Deen-ish from like this guy's like this unbelievable character guy played in the middle of the best defense in college football.

It's like a little bit one-to-one. he's a little bit better appropriately sized for the position, right? Yeah, he does have the size. He has the athletic, doesn't mean, it's the film. There's a lot there. I think you hit it on the head from the Nkobitian part of it. Like the evaluation of linebackers is tough when your defense is so good because things are happening, like things are designed for you to clean up, right?

That's well said. So when you have, you know, Chris Jenkins in front of. of you and you have you know you can you can go on with what's that bang bang yeah chris jenkins oh jay right yes okay yeah bang i think the other talking about michigan's chris jenkins michigan's chris jenkins uh nicknamed the mutant yes he was which i got to be honest if you have a nickname like the mutant i need to see a little bit more now like that is that that is yeah i mean you got to be like the best athlete on the field or like just some over looking body type I'm not seeing it enough not seeing enough of Chris Jenkins okay uh you know

you know what his dad was uh a man Chris Jenkins hmm that from the Carolina Panthers that's right yes okay um yeah so I I I have Colson and Cooper in the same tier so why do you go Cooper over Colson I don't know if I did I did that's so strongly about it I'm not different type of player not pounding the different type of player not pound the table is going to be in the middle of your defense Exactly. Edron Cooper is going to be on the edge of your defense, right? There's a bit of a like poor man's Michael Parsons profile to it because this is a guy who played linebacker,

but then all of a sudden had eight sacks this show for Texas A&M. Yeah, so you know he can blitz. Yeah. There you go. All right. So for our purposes, we have a tie between Junior Colson and Roger Rosengarde, the Washington offensive tackle. You'd rather go Colson ahead and then.

I would, but I know you're a big Rosengarden fan. I'm fine with that. I have no problem with that. Rosengarten had the... Garden comes in at 35. He had the best 40 time among all the offensive tackles. All right.

Next up, another tie to break here between Jatavian Sanders, the Texas tight end. I have him at 31. You have him at 46. And then Ladd-McConkey, the Georgia wide receiver. You have at 35.

I have down at 42. Interesting. I'm going scarcity. I would push Sanders over McConkey. Yeah, all right. I'm fine with that. I think Sanders is the second best is the second best tight end in the draft.

I don't think this is a particularly good tight end draft class. But I'm totally fine with that. We can look at the age profile. Excuse me. The production, I can't say the athletic profile because he did not test especially well. But when you watch him, you're like, why didn't he test well? Because he looks athletic on film. Well, said.

All right. Well, this is a fun exercise that you can do with your buddies if you want to. You know, set up your own little big boards, average it out, talk it out, and see how it all stacks up. and we're doing that, you might as well be sucking them back because a lot has changed over the years, but one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. It was the original light beer, and to this day, it is still the best one. Miller Light has more of the taste you want and less of the stuff you don't. Miller Light keeps it simple, undebatable quality, great taste, and the summer's coming up.

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but then I'm like what's actually it's called the Wells Fargo Center so I must well call it to them to call I must well call it that just because they pay for it doesn't mean that they're paying you I know I know so that's why I hesitated the center but I but I I'm not just the Sixers Stadium

the Sixers Arena there you go but I'm a big fan of True Mark Financial Credit Union which sponsors PHOI okay all right we have reached sort of the area now where the ordering gets a little silly because our rankings tend to diverge pretty wildly. For instance, the next player up is Kamari Lasseter, the Georgia corner who you have at 27.

I have at 51. Ooh, you're not a Kamari Lasseter fan. Why not? You think he's a slot guy? Yeah, just, you know, it's a Georgia corner. Can we get over that, please? Like, let's... Don't scout the helmet, though?

Let's expand our... Let's expand our worldview a little bit. Yeah, scout the player, not the helmet. I like Kamari Laster. He plays with an on-field toughness that appeals to me. But that's fine. Okay. Okay.

Next up is Roman Wilson, who we actually were relatively close on. I had 48. You had 40. That's the Michigan-wide receiver. Who took a plane to high school, as we talked about. Thank you. Yes. Rounding out, the top 40 is another player who we diverged on,

and that is Mike Sanrystil, the Michigan slot, who is, I believe, approaching retirement age. Okay, I'm pounding the table from Mike Sanders still. He's awesome to watch. Don't hurt yourself. Pounding tables, he's one spot ahead of Jonah Ellis, who I would so much rather have on my team.

I think Sanders still, like, he's a winning player. And is he older? Yes. That said, he is... Older than dirt. I mean, you love Troy Falanu, and he's basically... I don't love Troy Fatonu. We had a whole episode with Fran when you and Fran where I said football's explaining to me why Troy Faton is the greatest.

From what I watched, but I don't trust my eyes as much as much as the profile. Yeah, Mike Sanders still is I just love the player. I think this is a guy who you have him on the field. He's going to help you win games. And so I feel strongly in the player profile. I mean, you can see the fit on this defense, right? Because he and Vic Fangio obviously went to high school together. They'll have a lot to talk about.

He's not that. 23, going in the H-24 season? Yeah. Look, I hear you. He's just an awesome player. Every time I watch him, I love for like a smile on my face. Like, this guy is so much fun to watch.

To me, he's a Red Star player. Really? Yes. If I was doing the Red Star part of it. I see Christopher W. says, I have Andrew Phillips over Santer still. There's so much Andrew Phillips hype. You don't see it, huh?

I don't know. Sandor still makes plays like time and time and time again. Yeah, I just really like Sanderson. I just, yeah, I mean, any of all of this is a very small degree of confidence. Yes. And exactly how these guys are going to, are going to get going to net out. But yeah, like, you know, Mike Samerstall makes a tackle in the open field. There's a part of me that worries he just is going to disappear into a cloud of dust.

Okay. But I mean, I would rather a 24-year-old who makes plays over a 21-year-old who doesn't. Okay. Well, Joan Ellis makes plays. Okay. Fair enough. Let's put Joan Ellis above him. I would actually, I would push him even up.

I would push him ahead of Kamar Lasseter myself. All right. Let's do that. That's fine. Edge rusher. Okay. 38. I'm going to put Lassar at 39.

I have them in the... Roman Wilson to 40. San Francisco to 41. So I have Kamari. When I talk about my tears, he's a long. in my tiers of top of second round corners. But that's not, as he's on his own there. So that shows you it's not a great tier at that point.

I think if you don't get the corner in the first round, you're probably thinking late round two or early round three. All right. I'm not going to, I guess I don't need to go through every single player here as we approach things. But I want to ask you about some of the players that we do have wide differences on. One of them, Tyler Newbin, the Minnesota safety, who I quite like as the top safety on the board. I had him at 33. you have him all the way down at 73.

Yeah, no, he's older. I'm okay with that at safety. Look, I don't love this safety class. There's two, so I think Javon Bullard's the top safety. But the safety who I, like, really liked, and every time I watched him, like, why isn't this guy getting more attention is Kailen Bullock from USC. I think Kailen Bullock's, like, built for football in, in 2024.

but I'm okay with Nubin. I mean, yeah, I don't dislike it. He's in, look, after I got past 55, I had a tier where I, I don't, I couldn't tell you 61 to 73, like who I liked more. They're all in kind of it's, it's that's where you get in the room. If there's someone who feels strongly about the player,

then you kind of move it up one way or the other. Okay. Another player who, I feel about him sort of like, you feel about Drew Phillips, which is like everybody keeps telling me this guy is awesome, and I still need to figure out why. And that's Max Melton from Rutgers. You love Max Milton.

Yeah. I know he's fast. No, he's really productive too. And maybe it's just that Shiano defense. I feel like those Shiano, I know you don't scout the helmet. I feel like those Shiano corners, though, they just play corner in like a real smart way. When I look at, you know, Logan Ryan and the McCorgies, the guys who, the guys who, who've come through that system.

That's the way I feel about Max Melton. Plus, he's localish. So I give a shout out there. Okay. Another one here that we are different on Chris Jenkins, The Mutant, you have at 38. I had him at 79. Oh, wow.

I want to see more. That's a big disparity. Okay. On the flip side of that, this is a classic Ohio State Michigan. I have Mike Hall at 39. You have him at 74. This is another defensive lineman.

Yeah, Mike Hall is a little. a little Bill Williams-ish to me, which isn't a bad thing. Milton Williams is a good player. But like what is he? He's kind of like a big end slash. So again, without knowing what this Eagles defense is going to look like,

I don't quite, I don't quite love the fit, but he's what, 20 years old, I think, my call. And there's a lot to like in terms of the profile. So yeah, I, I won't. I won't push back on my call. I just, he's kind of like this D&D tackle hybrid. Okay. I'm, I'll just sort of run down as we get down this list. So 42 is Xavier Leggett, the wide receiver from South Carolina. 43, Peyton Wilson, the very old and injured

NC State linebacker who plays very well when he's healthy. Yes. 44. We have the first running back off the board. That would be Jonathan Brooks from Texas. 45 is Max Melton. Wait, real quick. So you so you had Jonathan Brooks fairly high for the years. I had him higher than you did. I had him 44. overall. You had him 58. Yes. Okay. Then it comes Rook Aurora from Clemson, defensive tackle. Then Ricky Pearsall,

the Florida wide receiver. Then Tyler Nubin at 48. Christian Haynes, the guard from Connecticut at 49. Kieran Amagaji, Vince's number one overall player. The tackle from Yale comes in at 50. 51, Jeremiah Trotter Jr. 52. Braylin Trice, the edge from Washington.

53. Jaden Hicks, the Mississippi State Safety. 54, Mike Hall, who we just talked about, 55, Jalen Wright, the second running back, that is the running back from Tennessee. You like a Jalen Wright? Yeah, I really like Jalen Wright. Jalen Wright, I was thinking of putting him over Jonathan Brooks. Just he's electric to me. He's a big play guy.

Okay. Next up is Chris Braswell, the edge from Alabama we talked about. Now, what I'm doing here because of what you said is if there's a tie, I'm giving it to the line of scrimmage. Good. That's okay. Yep. 57, Javon Bullard from Georgia, the safety, 58. The Mutant, Chris Jenkins, 59, Jalen Polk, the wide receiver from Washington, who I was higher on.

Yep. And you, no surprise. Then you were higher on Blake Fisher, who comes next, the tackle from Notre Dame. He goes at 60. Yeah, I think Blake Fisher is the type of guy that the Eagles would profile because when you talk about development, you talk about versatility. He has the skills in his body. They're critical factors, as Jeff Stoutland likes to say. And I think the Eagles can develop those factors.

How do you feel about tools in the body? I actually don't think that it's that bad. I don't either Why do people push back on that? I think it's like a shield takes Umbridge at tools in the body I don't know it seems fine Yeah

It's a succinct way to explain something I mean I don't know if it's succinct But yeah Yeah You just say toolsy Say toolsy I was talking about a player With my son over the weekend

And I talked about his arm length And Reed looked at me like Like What does that mean? And so that's where I have, like sometimes you get too into the weeds and you just say, oh, yeah, this guy's got 34 inch arms as if like someone's supposed to take that information and do something.

That means. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's go a little bit further here. Now, the first player here who or the highest rated player that you had that was not in my top 80, your 28th overall player.

That is Jordan Morgan, the offensive lineman from Arizona, who I just do not see it with. And I feel like the Eagles will not be Jordan Morgan fan. interesting okay i put them in there because of the position the and the position versatility i don't know i don't have a strong that's that's one of those where you're trying to think like the eagles instead of thinking for yourself like i don't want to take him off the board if he's going in that range and he's that type of player but because he's projected to go bottom round one top round two yeah i don't know that i see that like i mean And I know that that's, so that's my point.

That's where like a guy who struggles with power and is projected to move to guard. Like, I don't know. I mean, he was a really good player at, at Arizona. I look, we did the whole. He looks to me like the worst of Andre Dillard. Okay. We did the whole offensive tackle show and we did not talk about him. So that says like I didn't feel strongly about him.

Clearly, you don't feel strongly about him. I just view it almost like, all right, this is this is where he's going to go. The Eagles are looking for tackle guard version. versatile guys. He's a tackle guard versatile guy. Okay. But again, I'm not pounding the table for him. That's fine. I mean, this is just an exercise. Yes.

64 is Trey Benson, the Florida Statewide receiver. Running back. Running back. Sorry. 65 is our Mr. 69 himself, Austin Booker. A little welcome welcome on the show, Austin. We'll get a little monage going.

We'll get a bed and see how things go. We'll make it a veritable lemon party. All right. Marshawn Neeland, And 66, who I also like, I think both of us don't like it, are a little bit skeptical of Marsha Neeland, but this is one where it's like everybody's telling me he's going to go in the top two rounds. I guess he's got to be in here somewhere. And the Eagles brought him in, right? So the fact that they brought him, they're not doing it just to give him frequent flyer miles, right? True. Yeah. Was I supposed to sell that better? Is that, is that? No. I was making the point that if we're doing a board for the Eagles and they brought him in and he's clearly on the Eagles radar. 67 is Ennis Rake Straw from Missouri, who I also, you had at 69, or 39, rather, I did not have in my top 80.

You didn't like them? No, I did not like Ennis Rikstra. Drew Phillips, the Kentucky corner comes in at 68. The actual 69 is going to be Zach Frazier, the offensive lineman from West Virginia, who is my highest ranked player who you did not have. Followed by Cole Bishop. Do you think people are taking a center only guy? I think the expectation is he could play guard. That's, okay.

Yeah. We can keep going through the next 10 just to round this out. Devandre Sweat, the big defensive tackle from Texas at 71. Again, not in mine. Nor was Mason Smith from LSU, who I really wanted to like. But that's a player where I feel like the Eagles risk tolerance there would not have him that high of their board. Yeah, sorry, Shield. Tools in the body. That's Mason Smith.

I like him from that perspective. That's what I'm saying. But this is one where if I am divorcing myself. He goes, I don't think he would be their kind of player. I just think if you have time to develop a player, this is the kind of player you want to develop because, look, he looks apart to use an exteriorion expression. You want Mason Smith coming off the bus first, right?

He's like 6-6, 3-10, plays like with his freshman, he was not good the past few years. His freshman year, he jumped out, big-time recruit. Yes. And Devandre Sweat, But he's a he's your back. You're looking for a Jordan Davis replacement. Exactly.

Yeah. That's the Vandre sweat. Everybody else here is going to be somebody who was on one of our lists and not the others. So just to run it down. Tommy Eichenberg, the linebacker from Ohio State. Malachi Corley, the wide receiver from Western Kentucky. Keaton Oladapo, the safety from Oregon State. I like him.

T.J. Tampa, the cornerback from Iowa State. Kalin Bullock, Y' boy, the safety from USC. Jarvis Brownlee, the cornerback from Louisville, rather, a D. to Isaac, the edge from Penn State, Patrick Paul, the tackle from Houston rounds out our top 80. Okay. Is there anyone who is in your top 50

who's not in our top 80? No, anybody who is in either of our top 50s would make that top 80. Okay. All right. Yeah, I'm good with that list. I mean, there's some guys who I clearly like I had Zach Zinter and Tanner Bornellini.

I had Zach Center. Zinter's in here. Center was at 62. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Did we mention Jaden Hicks? You do not have Jaden Hicks. I had him at 75.

Hicks is at 53. Hicks at 53. Okay. And then Braden Fisk, did you mention him? Yes, he was at 61. 61. Okay. There you.

I'm happy with that, Luce. Yeah, I'm looking forward to our corner show. I feel like there's going to be some healthy disagreements on the corners. Well, I'm looking forward to our safety show, Zach. Yeah. I mean, I think Kaelin Bollock, I need a cut of his first contract because I'll be talking this guy up. But I'm looking forward to our safety show, Zach, because tomorrow is our safety show. Oh, yeah.

Sorry, yes, tomorrow is our safety show. We will be discussing the safeties in this draft. The Eagles signed CJ Garner Johnson, of course. But this is still a position where long term, the Eagles could be on the market. And it's a great safety class, but we'll get into all these options. well, we should have a special guest with us. And then we will also have some Eagles news trickling out over the next few days for Eagles perspective.

At some point this week, we're supposed to talk to Harry Rosman, right, before the draft? Yep. So whether that happens tomorrow or a different day, we will obviously talk to you about it after it happens. But tomorrow we're having, I think we can say, we're having Devin Jackson from the Inquirer. Their draft specialist who's going to join us in studio. So we're looking forward to that. And much more to come as the week goes on and our attention. narrows in on next Thursday night's draft.

That'll do it for this episode of the PHLY Eagles podcast. Thanks to Bree for stepping in, dynamite job. Thanks to everybody for watching and listening. Thank you, Zach. And for all of us here at PHLY, we will talk to you tomorrow at noon. And as always, we love you.