PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Do Eagles safeties Reed Blankenship & C.J. Gardner-Johnson need NFL Draft help?

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

Our attention turns to the safety position, where the NFL Draft class seems to lack an obvious first-round talent. But with two second-round picks, the Eagles could be interested in the likes of Georgia’s Javon Bullard, Washington State’s Jaden Hicks, Minnesota’s Tyler Nubin and Miami’s Kamren Kinchens.Devin Jackson of The Philadelphia Inquirer joins Zach Berman and Bo Wulf to discuss the safety prospects who might fit in a Vic Fangio defense. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the PHLY Eagles podcast on a Tuesday high noon. Bo Wolf. Zach Berman joined, as you can see in the middle there, for those of you watching on YouTube, Devin Jackson of the Inquirer is here to talk draft with us. Devin, how you doing? Welcome to the show.

Doing great. Less than a week out from the draft and it feels like it's kind of been a marathon getting here. But now it's coming up pretty quickly. So excited to see, you know, what the Eagles do at 22 and really how it was, of first couple rounds, shake out. We are excited to talk about all of that.

Our focus generally today is going to be on the safety position, but I'm sure that we will deviate from that septum a little bit, Zach, and maybe get into some big picture stuff. Maybe talk about what brought Devin here, but how are you doing, Zach? I'm doing great. Pump Devin's here. He said before the show, this is his favorite time of year, or he loves this time of year, I can empathize or I can relate there because this is fun. Vince was saying to me,

you seem serious. I said, this is serious stuff here. We're talking draft, right? So I'm enjoying it and excited to talk safety. Where does this rank among your favorite times of year? Every times. I mean, I don't like those summer months when nothing's going on in football as much. But my favorite time of year is definitely like once the season starts, September.

You got games. It's everything's geared towards Sunday. That's the best. But I love training camp. I love draft season. Honestly, it's the lulls. in the calendar that I don't like so much. The times when you are not able to work as much, essentially.

Essentially, yes. Yes. Or there's the, but also, like, it's not just, it's, it's not just the Eagles. Sixers have a huge game tomorrow. Flyers have a huge game tonight. Like every sport's going on right now. During the fall, every sport's going on, right? During the summer, I love baseball, but there's not as much otherwise.

So, well, yeah, I'm getting, I have the nice, probably I'm guessing, like, one week window here where I can walk to the office and not be like super sweaty. It's a good, I'm happy about that. Yeah, yeah. It's one of the appeals of having this office. There you go. All right. Before we get to safety talk and getting into Devin's thoughts here, Zach, we're going to hear from Harry Roseman this afternoon. We're going to hear from

Devante Smith. What are the things that you're looking forward to hearing from that? And Nick Siriani as well. Yeah, well, I mean, I think there's a chance that nobody asks them any questions. So this is the annual pre-draft press conference for Howie and for Nick. And I want to modify expectations here because Howie won't give you anything here. He's not going to talk specific prospects. He won't talk strategy. He'll talk generally about the class.

He's going to say that they have to be comfortable with 22 players on the board. 18 non-quarterbacks. 18 non-quarterbacks. But really, this is the first time Howie's speaking in this setting since they're traded Hassan Reddick so it's the first time you're hearing from him about the trade about the return about the process there right i imagine there's going to be some Hassan Reddick questions certainly davanti smith eager to hear about the timing why he wanted to do this now right that's that's a popular question there from from nick syriani you're you know i who was good at

rock paper scissors no there there there's going to be questions it's the start of the offseason program right like they they they were yesterday for the start of the off-season program. This time last year, they actually didn't report when they were allowed. They reported a week later. It's our first time speaking to him since they made these changes to the off-season calendar, such as having a mandatory minicamp, having more OTAs than they have in the past. I don't know if that question is going to come up, but this is really our first time speaking

to Nick about that, and Nick probably won't be available other than draft weekend until the rookie minicamp. So that could come up. But with Howie, as far as the draft, you're going to get questions today about offensive tackle, offensive guard. Like is it important that the tackle has guard versatility so he can play day one? You might hear about going after a skill player.

Howie's going to tell you, I've covered a lot of Halley dress conferences over the past 13 years. Howie's going to say when they've run into trouble, they've pushed for need. So you have to go with value. That's going to be a big talking point there, that they try to draft-proof their roster. So they try to make it such that they can go and play a game this weekend without needing the draft to fortify a position. And to be fair, I think they have done that.

Certainly, certainly. Now, as we discussed last week, right guard might be the biggest need on the team depending on how you view Tyler Steen, corner depending on how James Bradbury looks when they actually work out in front of the coaches. but I think that's when we have big talk point from Halley. Do you, and I'm sorry to keep us off track here for a second here, but as you talk about the players reporting to camp or reporting for the off-season process,

do you believe that that's like stolen valor? They're not reporters. They shouldn't use the word report. No, no, no, not at all. They're literally reporting for it. I do think, though, there's too much made from us reporters about the attendance at these things. I mean, it's voluntary, obviously.

And I got to say, they don't do much this time of the year. Now, you get into like phase three when you're actually on the field and they're working with the coaches. And even that, it's not like a training camp practice. It's not like an in-season practice, but you are actually doing work. Right now, they're in meetings. They're lifting weights. They're running sprints. There's really nothing that these guys are doing in the facility that they, that.

I feel like that's probably how you started your morning today, Kevin, right? Not quite. I would say I slept in a little bit and walk my dog. Good for you. But you're working night hours. Yeah. Yeah, working the night shift. So that's been a little bit of adjustment last couple of weeks.

But I've done it before. You know, working in sports generally. So it depends on the night. Depends on what's happening in the Philly area. So tonight will be like 4 to 12. Oof. Just because, you know, you got the Phillies game, the Flyers game with playoff implications.

and then there'll be the same thing tomorrow with sixers. So just around to kind of handle those things when they come in, especially when they come in like 9 or 10 o'clock. Yeah, there used to be a reporter at the inquirer who would like call the copy editor every like 30, 40 minutes. Hey, do you mind changing this word here or adjusting this sentence? They probably have a poster of me there that like they throw darts at. Like this guy made our nights miserable.

I'm sure it wasn't quite all that bad. But yeah, I did call the desk quite a bit. All right, Devin, before we get into the safeties, tell us, as if there are our listeners who are not familiar, how long have you had the draft sickness? How long have you been a true draft sicker? I will say really since, probably since I've been like nine or ten years old. Okay. You know, I grew up a big sports fan watch basketball, football, baseball in the summers when there was nothing else on. I would watch every sport that was on TV.

So with the NFL draft, there was just such a fascination and watching like Mel Kuyper growing up and talking about the draft and Todd McShay and their banter back and forth. And then, you know, really as an adult, I would say I really got deep into like studying players like towards end of the 2020 class. And right before the pandemic hit is when I started to kind of ramp up and watching players. You know, I started with like the Big Ten, you know, wearing kind of like a free-line. thing covering the draft covering big 10 prospects i think that was the class that like cedar ruis um as it's one of the top guys micha parsons emerged at pin state that year obviously came out the year after but i remember watching him like on you know during those saturdays and then sundays and then from there just continually building up um and writing kind of freelance to different

websites and and the inquire asked me when i joined shortly after i joined inquire in 2020 22 August. They asked if I'd be interested in covering some draft stuff down the line. And, you know, last year's class and this year's class have been covering full-time for the inquiry. Now, one thing I respect about Devin is I call him a weekend guy at the Combine. And what I mean by that is, so we talked about Combine coverage back in February. And a lot of people, us included, Bo and me, you get there early in the week. You're talking to the coaches, the GMs, you know, maybe.

like those high profile offensive positions. See you later. Then by Thursday and Friday, Indianapolis is clearing out, except for some really dedicated reporters who are there at like 7 a.m., 8 a.m., right there at the podiums, talking to every prospect who comes through.

I respect that about you. Same thing at the senior bowl. During the draft coverage, when you have exposure to them. So you're not just watching the film, but you have exposure to them. What are you specifically seeking? So I kind of just want to pick their brain about what I'm seeing and seeing if it kind of matches

and kind of confirming what I see on their film, but also just who they are as people. Because I think a lot of the talk around draft prospects is what they bring on film, their traits, their size, their speed, et cetera. But there's also that person on the other side of it as well that, you know, is going through this process for the first time in their lives and trying to. impress NFL teams and you know i just generally kind of want them to get the feeling like it's not transactional yeah i like the type of thing where i'm just there to get what i need and and post it on social media who have you talked to you know like all this yeah exactly so like i like asking those

things just to get an idea of like who the eagles are going after what positions they're targeting uh which made the offensive line day that you know on that saturday for the combine so great they had met with like four or five different offensive linemen. But also like I'm so in tune with like some of their, the weird things they have going on. And like for example, one story, one cool story that I found out just by talking to like a few offensive linemen is kind of the relationship between Tyler Guyton, who I'm sure we'll talk about later in this podcast.

And Christian Haynes, they train together out in L.A. leading up to the senior role. And when, you know, during the practices, when they both were aligned together, they were like celebrating each other's wins. And, you know, I went and talked to them about that. And they have built a really nice relationship just by going through this draft process together. So you learn little tidbits and nuggets like that through the draft process. And it's really cool to see like these guys like grow under the spotlight. And one more story before we get to safeties, like Will McDonald last year. Yeah.

I was the only reporter that talked to him after the first day of the senior bowl last year. Obviously, he went first round through the Jets, but just being able to build that relationship. And I saw him again at the combine, and he asked me to, for my gamer tag to play, to play, you know, video games with him. How is he as a gamer? I didn't get to play him, unfortunately. But then he asked me to come to. this pro day. So like you build those types of relationships. Ames Eye was beautiful this time of year. Yeah. So you build those types of relationships with with players sometimes and just talking to them,

you know, like everyday people. So that's the coolest part of this process, I would say. Well, one thing that I also think has stuck out to me from the way that you have been been covering these guys. And you can follow Devin on Twitter at at Real D underscore Jackson, which I take as a shot at DeShon Jackson. I feel like that's pretty clear that you're putting him down. But that's the only guy you're putting down because we I am very guilty of this and that is talking about the negatives of a prospect or the negatives of a profile and the job is go find guys who can help your team and I feel like you have done a very good job of focusing on the positives of a player and like how they can fit yeah as a former player myself I just kind of put myself in their shoes and

try to relate to them and how they would feel going through this process and seeing all these different people talk about how they might fit you know you know, with your particular team, the things that they need to work on as prospects. And for me, it's just like they know those things, you know, they've been told by teams, obviously what they need to work on from scouts, from their coaches. So to me, I don't want to kind of lay into that more and just kind of focusing on what they can do for a team. And I think that kind of gets lost in the draft process. It's not about, like, stacking up how the quarterbacks will go or,

saying which tackle is a project or ready to play right now. But what do they bring to the table outside of their skill set? You know, what do you see the specific things you see on film that really stand out? So to me it's really cool to be able to talk about them in a positive light just because I know at the end of the day, if they hit where they should be, that's what everyone's going to be talking about anyway. So that's kind of the focus for me is bringing that positive. you know, reinforcement to what they bring to the table and just continue to watch them grow. And everyone needs to grow as a player, you know, coming out of college. No one's a perfect prospect.

And I think we should focus more on what they can do versus what they can do. Speaking about perfect prospects, if I can sneak in one question here. You're at the Penn State Pro Day this past weekend. Oh, I'm sorry, the Penn State Spring game this past weekend. I made a remark last week when we were talking about Penn State film that every time I was watching it, I was like, oh my God, number 11's awesome. Abdul Carter from LaSalle High School, right that one. Okay.

And I think you got that one. Yeah, it's moving from linebacker to edge rusher. This time next year, are we talking about like a top 10 pick? Because he is, he's a pleasure to watch. I think so. You know, I think, you know, I've tweeted by him quite a bit too. And to me, I just feel like when you watch, watch him, he moves at a different speed than everyone else. on the field and frankly everyone else in the conference.

I know how talented the Big Ten conference is, but they're literally running plays so he can't mess it up or a record and he still is making plays, you know. And I wrote a story about about him kind of making that transition from linebacker, a defensive end. And, you know, I asked James Franklin on a Rose Bowl press conference about him and he said he moves at the speed, one other player that we've seen come through here.

Sharif Miller. And he said he was, you know, obviously we're in the number 11 as well. So I think the comparisons to Michael Parsons are warranted and the way he plays, you know, how he's involved every play. And I'm really excited to see him go through the process. And, you know, obviously we have a couple of Philly guys in this draft process this year. But I really think he can, you know, be one of the best we've seen in quite since All right, we're going to get into why safety is maybe the most difficult position in a little bit.

But before we do that, let's talk about Bet Parks, because the episode today is brought to you by the Bet Parks app. Get in the Zone with the Bet Park's Sportsbook app. Money is in the moments. And we know we got a big moment coming up tomorrow night. Sixers playing game against the heat. Can Joellen Bede overtake heat culture? I guess we're going to find out. And if you want a little extra hooch on the action, you can do it on the.

the Bet Parks Sports app. Win big with all-day action. And if you win your first $10 bet, you can earn $125 in sports bonus bets. You play for fun. You love to win. You bet. Download the Bet Parks Sportsbook app and play along with us. Must be 21 or older.

Please gamble responsibly. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800 gambler. Bo mentioned that it's a great, it's great this time of year to walk from your home to the office. And I agree with that, but there's one downside this time of year too. It's allergy season. If you're feeling sneezy, runny and itchy, it might be pollen allergies, which can make you feel pretty miserable. But there are ways to get relief. And by the way, those symptoms, they could include itchy, red and swollen or your eyes start to water, sneezing, nasal congestion, running nose, brain fog, a cough, headaches.

you might think this is a cold, it might just be seasonal, it might be seasonal allergies. That's why you need to sign up for RiteAid rewards emails at RiteAid.com slash rewards to receive email pollen alerts for your area. If the pollen count is high, try to stay indoors. You can keep windows closed. You can run the AC if needed. But sometimes you just need to go to Rite Aid. Your local Rite Aid, and there's over-the-counter options like the nasal rinse to help flush out your nasal passages.

When symptoms are flaring up, there's antihistamines that you can go to. There's nasal, there's different types of right aid brands and medicines at that. They have at right aid to help you during allergy season. If still, if that's not enough relief, right aid pharmacists are, they can offer different types of allergy medication like a decongestion. You can always ask the pharmacist at right aid for recommendations on ways to get relief during allergy season. Visit your local right aid today.

Stock up on allergy relief or catch up. on immunizations for RSV, shingles, and more. Walk in or schedule a vaccine appointment at rightaid.com. All right. Let's get ready to talk safeties in this draft. Now we know that the Eagles at the moment, they've got Reed Blankenship, they've got C.J. Gardner Johnson signed to a big deal.

He's got some position versatility. They've got Sidney Brown, who they like. Red Star player had a pretty good rookie season, but coming off the torn ACL probably won't be ready until at least early in the season, a position where they could use some depth, But safety, and this is why you have a very difficult assignment here today, Devin, is the position that the league has probably struggled with the best in terms of evaluating who is actually the best prospect in the class. If you look at every single position over the course of the past decade plus and breakout who are the pro bowlers and all pros, it is the highest percentage by those position groups of those guys who are found in round four and beyond on day three, almost.

a third of those guys found on day three. And that doesn't mean that it's not the position they value. You know, guys are being drafted in the first round and the second round. And they're not always hitting. So let's start with generally speaking, Devin, why do you think it is that safety is such a difficult position for the league to evaluate? I think at the college level, at least they're used in so many different ways. It's not really a specialized physician. Sometimes you put your best secondary athlete at safety.

Sometimes you put, you know, kind of the bigger, you know, more athletic guy at that position. But I think, you know, it's such a difficult position to evaluate just because how much do teams value it in kind of their scheme of the defense? Like it's very, it's a valuable position. But, you know, teams don't want to pay guys top of the line, top of the dollar to be their, you know, high paying safety. You know, you look at Xavier McKinney, he was able to get a pretty big deal for the Packers over the summer. But if you're, you know, you're looking at the Giants perspective, why not keep a guy that brings so much value to your defense?

And I just think everyone thinks it's a replacement level position, but then you lose a guy and you're like, wow, we really missed that, you know, missed that presence. Like literally what the Eagles did this year, trying to, you know, write the wrong of letting C.J. Garnet Johnson go. So it's a position where. where it seems like, okay, you know, he made this type of production, but is that a product of, you know, the pass rush or whatnot? So everyone, like, they kind of point to all the different other aspects

other than like what the safety actually brings to the table. And there's just so many different things that they're asked to do, I think, and it doesn't always translate team to team, I think, as well, like so many different deployments and safeties and the skill sets and how they're, sometimes they're playing out of position because of some injuries as well. So I think that those factors combine, you kind of get a conglomeration of guys that should be value higher, but they're not. But I think the league is starting to understand that good safety play is just as key as having elite corners or an elite pass rush because you still have to have those guys on and the final wave of your defense that are playmakers. And, you know, teams are starting to learn.

And they can isolate some of these safeties in one-on-one situations over the middle of the field as well. Yeah, you see the problem. It's not just that they're hard to find, but they're hard to evaluate as well. And or I should say not just hard to evaluate, but hard to find because you look at every draft since 2020, really Kyle Hamilton and Dax Hill were the only safety is taken in these past four drafts in the first round. And we're looking at, so another year here, Bo and I always do these shows, these draft preview shows where we identify. identify like the first round guys at the start. And it really doesn't seem like there's a first round safety this year. And this would be the fourth time in five years that happens.

Yeah. The first round safety class this year, I mean, if you really, really want to go that route, I mean, I could see guys like Tyler Nubin and maybe Jaden Hicks is two guys that could maybe slide in the back of it. But generally speaking, I don't think there's any first round safeties this year just because I don't think there's any guys that you drop in right now into defense. And, you know, they're, you know, playing at a pro bowl or all pro level. I think there's some developments still needed and just some specific roles.

Some of these guys need to be able to fill in kind of that learning curve, obviously, as well when you get to that NFL. And I wonder how much of that is a skittishness from the league because they know that they're not great at evaluating the position. I mean, it's hard because there's so much unknown when you're watching a situation. safety on film, right? You don't know exactly what his responsibilities are. Now, you know, most scouts probably have a certainly a better idea than, than you or I do. But also, like, what, what makes a great safety on a play is often, like, the ball's not going their direction. Sure. Right. Like, it's, it's like a quiet, uh, excellence that, that it would take to, to find. It's interesting that the highest rate of power five guys is safety. So it's a position where,

for whatever reason, like that high level of experience against the best competition seems to matter entering the NFL. But let's talk about those those top two guys you mentioned. It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler Newbin is more of the prototypical free safety ball hawk type, whereas Jaden Hicks is much more of a sort of like downhill, some like C.J. Garner-Johnson nastiness with the physicality with which he plays. Is that a fair dichotomy? Yeah, I would agree. I think, you know, with Newbin, you know, he kind of flashes with the ball production his ability to take passes away over the middle of the field, jump passes on short and intermediate concepts.

But Jaden Hicks, to me, is so interesting because he was all over that Washington State defense. And it feels like he's just kind of scratching his surface of what he can be as a true safety guy. And I see so many different paths he could be taken in in terms of where teams might want to deploy him. You know, you've got the potential at his size to be kind of that dime linebacker spot where he can take away tight ends over the middle of the field and be able to take away those underneath passes. But I can see him in a dual safety role.

He has the sideline, the sideline speed, the instincts, and then he flies downhill in the run game. You know, he really packs a punch when he hits guys. And I remember watching the first three plays against Wisconsin. and, you know, he's going against Breland Allen, the running back from Wisconsin, who's 6-1-235, and he lays him out, you know. So I think, you know, he brings so much so that the power, the instinctual kind of really excellent athlete dynamic.

When you look at the testing, you know, Hicks is a much better tester than Nubin is. So I think that kind of weighs into how teams might, you know, see him in terms of. of fitting into their defense. But I think those two guys, to me, stand out as two of the top safeties in this class. But there was a bunch of other guys after them that they're really intriguing to. Hicks is 6-2-215.

Ran a 4-5-40, as you mentioned, Tyler Newbin, a little bit older, and is 6-1-205, ran a 459. Zach, do you think, let's say it gets to the Eagles second, second-round pick? They've addressed two big needs already with the first two picks. one of these safeties is maybe the best player on their board. Do you think it's a position that makes sense for them? Do you think either one of these guys makes more sense? No.

It would surprise me if it's the best player on their board too. I think that's part of why they paid CJ. They took Sidney Brown. Like you mentioned pretty early last year, third round pick, Red Star player for them. So it would surprise me. I would be surprised too. Of the two, I would say Noobin probably makes more sense.

but again, we haven't seen this Vic Fangio defense in Philly yet. And the big thing that is between CJ and Sidney Brown, you got versatile guys. You can play multiple spots. And that's actually, that's a safety question that I wanted to ask both of you here. And I don't want to say it's the elephant in the room at the position. But, you know, a safety, it kind of has like a relief pitcher element to it, where if you have a starter, he doesn't work out, he can become a dominant relief pitcher. You know, Malcolm Jenkins was a top 20 pick.

Corner wasn't his best spot. Safety was, right? And I say the elephant in the room because Cooper DeGine is someone who, every scouting report on him says, this guy can play three positions, right? He can play corner, he can play slot, he can play safety. And it's kind of like the fallback on him is, well, if he doesn't fit a corner, he doesn't work out a corner, he can be a great safety. When you evaluate Cooper DeGine, because this is someone who,

the Eagles could take, obviously, at 22, and it could be that line of thinking that maybe this is a down-the-road safety for them, right? Do you view him as a true corner, or do you think this is a guy who, if you're on the show with us four years from now, we're talking about a starting safety in the NFL? Yeah, I think he's a true corner in just in my evaluation, but I also understand why people want and see him moving to safety. But when I look at what he brings to the table in terms of the caliber of athlete that he is, is his ability to, you know, close on short and outbreaking routes.

And really what stood out to me is how he can maneuver traffic as a corner too. I think that's kind of an underrated aspect. We don't really talk about in the draft process, but the ability to maneuver traffic and still make plays, even when there's a lot of chaos around him and trying to work through and sift through kind of the quote-unquote trash of the middle of the field where there's so much going on. I think that's kind of my favorite aspect of his game,

and which I think translates best to corner because, corner or nickel, frankly, just because I think you need to be able to do those things. And as I say, that you can do those as well. But I think his experience at corner, the high level play that he has at corner, and just how he can make plays on the island,

I think really stands out to me. and which makes me think that he's going to be a corner at the NFL level. But I call to see those skills sets translating to safety. But I would say he's a corner. Would you be okay with that at 22? Yeah, I would absolutely. I'd be ecstatic if I was an Eagles fan, frankly. I just think we become, well, the NFL has become such a,

you need to have guys in the secondary. It can't just be, you know, your traditional two elite corners because you're not going to have the money to pay both guys. But you need guys that can make plays, can move around the secondary that can be matchup, kind of a racers, because when you look at some of the best teams in the FC, obviously you look at the 49ers, for example,

in how they use Debo Samuel, the Rams, how they use Cooper Cup and now Puka Niccoa. They are both guys that can be on the, you know, in the slot and on the outside. So you need guys that are able to kind of match. match up with those types of skill sets. And you can't just have, you know, can't throw anyone out there at Nickel. And you can't throw anyone out there outside corner either.

And from what we've seen in the past from Vic Fangio's defense, he likes to move around his defensive backs. Obviously, having Jalen Ramsey last year and be able to, a guy being able to move inside and out was so critical for the Miami Dolphins defense. So I think Cooper DeGene is, will be able to fill that type of role and being able to cover it in multiple spots. Do you think, Zach, that Cooper DeGine is like,

if you had to put one name on paper as the most likely Eagles pick right now, would that be your guy? So it's hard to say in this sense. I mean, nobody's more than three turkeys. Yeah, no, but this is my point. I think the position they're most likely to take his offensive tackle.

I think the player they're most likely to take is Cooper de Gene, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think that does make sense. So because I don't know which tackle is going to be on the board. I think Cooper de Gene will be there at 22. And I think it's a pick that you can like rationalize that makes sense. Position of need. I think like the part we said about slot and safety with him raises the floor a bit.

But still the athletic testing creates a high ceiling there. I know this doesn't factor into it. But the special team's returnability is like something you're probably going to hear more now. in these draft press conferences, in these draft rooms, because kick returns are back in the NFL. So, yeah, if I had to say right now, the player they're most likely to take, I know we're doing this game when Monday, Tuesday?

Tuesday is the game. So when we draft players that they would draft, I would say Cooper the Gene is the most likely player, but I still think tackles the most likely position. If that friction makes sense. I think it makes sense. I think if I had to write a name down right now, I think it would probably write down Tyler Guidon.

interesting okay because because you don't think mims is there you think they're more Guyton than mims I think there's a better chance that MIMS goes earlier and I think that they're more likely to you know as you said yesterday

tie goes to the tie goes to the line I think I would like if it's Tyler Guyton or Kool-Aid McKinstree I think I would go with Tyler Giden now I've been the one pounding the table that this isn't someone you just keep on ice for two years

because Lane Johnson could get hurt but do you not a guard? Yeah, but that's my point. Do you think the not a guard part of it, do you think like as much as how he talks about value, as much as he thinks not this year, but the year after and the year after that,

five years instead of five months, as I like to say, do you think there's a part of him that says, man, I want this tackle to be able to play guard right away? He might not have that choice. Yeah, exactly. You know, it depends on who's on the board. That's why. So Bo and I did our big board yesterday,

And we both came to the same conclusion. We don't feel comfortable with 22 names there, right? That they might have to trade up to 17, 16 to try to get the guy that they want. 22 on our board, if I can pull it up right here, was Kool-Aid McKinstree. Okay. It was like Guyton was 18, then Wiggins, Byron Murphy, Chop Robinson, Kool-Aid McKinstree, Graham Barton. Anybody you like there? Not a 22, I mean.

Yeah, that's the thing. It feels not good enough. It's like, I'm like. He was up at 15. I like Kulay McKinstree a lot. I like his game. He too. And he feels like a very old school type of player where he's not going to really get beat too much.

Like he's always there. You know, he's always right on your hip. And like I wrote in kind of my breakdown of him is that plays like a savvy NFL veteran. Like he understands what he can and can't do some of his limitations as a defensive back. And it feels, uh, it feels, uh, it feels disparate from. his name. Like the name Kool-Aid. You expect like a flashy guy. The coolest guy is making plays all over the place.

Right. Not just a steady Eddie. Yeah, but he was so, and just like it's hard because like Terry and Arnold on the other side is making these flashy plays. But you really have to like kind of isolate Kool-Aid when you watch him because you see what, you know, what Caleb Downs is able to do. And now he's off to Ohio State and Terry Arnold that you kind of get distracted away from watching him. But I feel like he played at R. Ray and NFL level, but I think he's more of a floor guy than a ceiling guy, if that makes sense. They should change names. They should swap. No, I think. So we'll have a cornerback show on Friday, I think, but my one-line summation is that Nick Saban did this guiding report for you.

Like, he started this guy as a true freshman, right? So I think that, that really says something. And teams weren't throwing to Koi's side as much, right? Koyd was the guy going into the year. Like, if you look at that those way too early mock drafts, Koyd was the guy who was high. more so than Terry and Arnold. All right, let's get back to safety. And I know from your Twitter, Devin, that Dadey and Taylor Demerson is one of your guys. This is the safety from Texas Tech 510-197,

ran a 4-4-1, 40-yard dash, a little bit on the older side. Why is he one of your guys? He is kind of a ball of fire out there for Texas Tech. You know, I was watching another prospect before he kind of just continue to make plays and kind of demanding my attention. What he's able to do kind of as a slot defender, defending tight ends. There's a play that he made against BYU.

I was watching Kingsley, Asua Mataya, Taya's film, but there was a play made against BYU where, you know, they kind of did a play action fake on like first and 10 from like the five-yard, like their own five-yard line. And he's like over the middle of the field. He comes down and gets sucked into the, play action fake and the quarterback goes to the tight end up the seam and he recovers goes up, takes the ball away, one-handed and makes the interception, then proceed to make a couple

plays from depth and coverage as a deep safety, as a nickel guy. So I really like his versatility to be able to play both nickel and safety. They align him at both spots at Texas Tech. And he just is a player that you get into the room and feel pretty good about what he can do wherever you put him, whether it's at nickel, whether it's at safety, kind of being a deeper coverage guy, being a guy more towards a line of scrimmage. He brings so many different aspects of those aspects to his game. And then you talk to him and he's really excited and juiced up about what he puts on film and just getting to know him and knowing that the Eagles had Darren Sprouls,

me with them at the Shrine Bowl as well. Good nugget. Which is pretty cool to hear. and he talked about kind of being in awe of him walking in the room, which shows how revered Sproes is. But Demerson is a guy that I think goes on day three, but you talked about kind of that statistic of round four guys and later hitting.

I could see him being one of those guys. I like Zach that he's one of, I believe he might be the only prospect in the draft who has the word dad in his name. I feel like that's on brand for this show. That's analytics right there. Yeah, the size there, 197. If you look at the historical context of Howard Roseman's safeties,

I don't want to say 200 pounds, that has been a threshold because it hasn't, but you don't see a lot of safety sub-200. Blake Countess was more of the nickel safety hybrid. He was 185. Other than that, Chiquon Jarrett was 198. Kirk Coleman was 197. Otherwise, you're looking at 211 pounds in the round,

206, Kvon Wallace, 207. Ed Reynolds, 209. Earl Wolf 207, Nate Allen, and that's going to factor into a safety. I'm going to talk about any minute. Well, let's hear it because this is your guy, Zach. You make the case for your boy, Kailen Bullock. Yeah, I had Kailen Bullock in my top 100,

and there probably aren't a lot of people who have Kailen Bullock in their top 100. Look, Kainw and Boak, those watching, if you love Andre Waters, if you love Wes Hopkins, you're not going to like Kailen Bullock. Kailen Bullock is not the guy you're going to have go up and hit some.

somebody. Okay. Kainwink is, but you know what? You're a pacifist as a, as a prognosticator. It's a different NFL. Kailen Bullock,

when he's out there, he is, like he moves differently than other safeties. He is, he's, he's what, like that 63,

185. I got pull out, I got put my numbers here, 6, 2, and 188, 4,4, 40. But Kowemem Bullock,

like, he moves and he plays like a corner playing safety. To me, he is, you talk about your center fielder type, you talk about your sideline the sideline safety. That's what Kaelan Bullock is.

When you watch him, when you read about him, he is not helping and run support. He is not hitting hard. But you know what? He has elite ball production for a safety, right? Or I shouldn't say elite high level ball production for a safety. He's anticipating passes. You know, there's.

There was a play against UCLA, and I'm seeing in my head where it wasn't even, it wasn't the interception. He was pattern matching with the tight end, and he knocks the ball out of the tight end's hand when it's trying to go over him. He had a pick six against Stanford, was it, when, like, you can say the quarterback threw it to him, but Kenwin Bullock knew exactly he broke on the ball, right? Kailn Bullock to me, now he's a converted wide receiver. He plays like it too.

Yes, exactly. No wonder he doesn't want to hit him. So, yeah, Kaelan Bullock from USC is a, he's 20 years old. Okay, he's going to be 21 this season. I think he's going to be 20 throughout the year. I got to look up the birthday. I actually think he just turned 21. Just turn 21?

Okay. Kalen Bullock is someone who jumps out to me as like the new age safety. He can run silent. April 30th, he turns 21. April 30th. Okay. Direct weekend is going to be fun weekend for him. Yeah. Yeah.

Imagine it will. Yeah. You feel like that. He gave an accurate scatter report. He did. Yeah. I like Kailen Bullock as well. He was kind of a, he was one of the better podiums I had at the common.

Okay. You know, he wore kind of a chain to kind of honor his, his grandmother and dad who both pass away. And, you know, he's just a really smart player and understands how to, like you said, pattern match. and those instincts and an ability to take away the football. I think he had 11 interceptions over the last two years leading USC's defense. Obviously, USC's defense isn't great.

You know, you have to kind of sift through and watch some explosive plays giving up. You took some bad angles as a tackler, but what he brings in terms of coverage and in terms of his speed and instincts, I think makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I think he should be talked about a little bit more. I know everyone talked about Cameron Kitchens is kind of the true center fielder of this class, but you look at Kaelin Bullock and kind of the value he's going to bring in terms of when teams pick him and actually select him.

I could see him end up bringing more value to a team than Cameron Kitchens will when you get selected. Let me ask you about that. I have a couple of woodpecker-you-ratherers, as we like to call them. So third-round guys, Cameron Kitchens from Miami or Malik Mustafa from Wake Forest. Let's say they're both on the board. where would you rather go?

I think I would lean kitchens. I do like Mustafa, but I do think he's about on the smaller side. I think he's like 5-9, 5-10, 5-10. Sounds tall to me. 5-10-206. So I think he's probably going to end up being more of a slot player than he would be in terms of a true safety,

which I think kind of makes me lean kitchens more a little bit for that more prototypical safety type. But I do worry about Kitchens' athletic profile a little bit in terms of the way they tested. And then, you know, he gets a good jump on the football and has those true center field of skills. But how does he know when or when kind of learning that balance of taking those chances versus just making the right play?

And to me, you kind of teetered in taking more chances than making, just making the play that's in front of them at Miami. It led to big interceptions numbers, but also gave us some big plays as well. Next up, in terms of a day two guy. someone who probably like fits more neatly into exactly what the eagles have gone for the past two years would be Javon Bullard from Georgia, 510, 198. Everybody says he's a great character guy. What would you make of him in the third round? Yeah, I think it will be a great selection in the third round. Really frankly, after pick 50, I think Bullard's coming off the board any time after

that just makes a lot of sense because he played both nickel and safety. like full seasons. Like he started at the star position at Georgia, which is kind of the reserve for kind of that nickel safety hybrid, uh, sometimes as that extra run defender in the box. Um, and he really excelled at that and kept Tykees Smith off the field, uh, in 2022. That's a shame. Yeah. And then 2023, you know, uh, bullet moved to a true safety role and that allowed Smith, uh, to be in

in that star role. So you see kind of that ability to play both positions at a high level. I thought in 2023 he did a better job of working more inside out in terms of his run fits and being more of a ballhawk. I think he's more of a safety natural, but I think he can fit at nickel. So I really like what Buller brings to the table. Obviously, the Georgia background makes sense and the Eagles potentially being interested. But I just think his ability to see and go.

get the ball, his aggressiveness, his ability to make tackles in open field and make plays both as a run defender and pass disruptor. And he's done it at multiple spots, makes him, makes his floor really high. All right. Last one. I'm going to give you four names, day three. And I'm looking for this prototype of a guy who had a lot of starts under his belt. Power 5 conference might be a little bit undervalued, maybe a little bit limited athletically, but you can sort of see what he brings to the table. So who would you rather have of Jalen Simpson from Auburn, Katom? Katom. Don Oladopo from Oregon State, Zach's boy, Tykee Smith from Georgia and Philadelphia, and Evan Williams from Oregon. Well, this is a tough one. I really like three guys on that list in Smith, Williams, and Sincen.

But I would take Sensen as the guy that I would really, really like on day three. He's a former corner that moved to safety, and he definitely plays like a corner at safety. You can tell that he has those instincts when he sees it. He goes and gets it. He had a really nice game against Georgia matched up with Brock Bowers. He had a nice pass breakup on a seam route down the middle of the field that could have been a touchdown. He

swatted away as the ball was arriving and was a little bit limited. Some could argue that Bowers could have gone up and got it. Some could. Some couldn't. But Simpson he was a little bit limited. I think he had an injury at the beginning of the season so he

didn't get to play a full season. But when he was on the field, Auburn's defense, really, really took it up another notch. I know they had two corners in Nehemiah Pritchett and DJ James that should probably be day three draft selections in a draft. But when I look at Simpson, what he brings to the table, what he did down at the senior bowl and how disruptive he was as both as a nickel and as a safety because they put him at both spots.

I really like what he brings to the table. I think he's going to be a great value pick. And a guy that I think the Eagles should select in round four or five. There you go. You got any other favorites on day three, Zach? Well, come on, you mentioned it. I have to do it. You got to give him some love.

As the advocate for all Philadelphia players, and by the way, on the Indian Gargano show today, we had Jeremiah Trotter Jr. He actually was not on today. He's going on later this week. I'm sorry, that's coming on there this week. We had Boe Wolf on today. That was the key. Yes. Tykee Smith, okay, from West Philadelphia, this way, okay?

And then he went to West Virginia, which is that way. I know that's north West Virginia is not No I'm aware No right here is So we got east we got west We got south we got north So that way

Toward that way Okay southwest that way Yeah there you go He worked it out Yeah So Yeah he was He was at West Virginia for two years

Went to Emmett Here in West Philly In Philly In Philly But transferred to Georgia was there for three years. Started last year, productive player

I think four interceptions last season what, 510, 200, so 4 540 and the 44s and I mean, come on. He's a Philly guy. So he's obviously high on my list. He'd be on my all Philly team this year. Pay attention to him.

And yeah, got to give a shout off. Well, Zach, you know who else is from Philadelphia? Who? True Mark Financial Credit Union. Because actually Fort Washington. When you join a credit union like TrueMark Financial, you become part owner, which means profits come back to you instead of going to shareholders. They've got better rates, better rates, lower fees, a better return on savings and more flexible options with all the same digital tools and tech to make our lives easier. But here's the key, like Tyke Smith, True Mark has local routes headquartered in Fort Washington with 24 branches in the Philly area.

They serve our community and our people right here at home. becoming a member of a credit union has so many benefits over being a customer at a bank. It is a total no-brainer. So head over to tromark.com slash p-h-l-Y. That's T-R-U-M-A-R-K dot com slash p-H-L-Y. To learn more or to find a branch near you, that's tromark.com slash p-H-L-Y, federally insured by the N-C-U-A. I mentioned last week, Jim Salisbury,

joining PHLI as a contributor. Exciting news came out yesterday, and you might have seen it as well. Les Bowen joining PHLY as a contributor as well. His first column was yesterday. But if you want to read it, you have to be a diehard member. And being a diehard member comes with great perks, okay?

We're really building up our diehard section here. You get premium written content for the members at all p.hly.com. You get 20% off of VHR. You get a free shirt when you become a member. There's merchandise for all teams there. You also get access to the members-only Discord where you can communicate with Bo Wolf directly. How much of a perk is that?

People always ask us how you can support the show, and the answer is to become a PHLY diehard member. There's a lot in there for you. Head over to all-P-H-L-Y.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. I feel like the name seems like, just as I have scoured to the beast and went to try to find the word Mark. Only one draftable mark in this prospect.

A lot of guys who Dane Brueger will say his dad's name is Mark. A lot of dads as Mark, but there's only one true Mark, and that's Mark Perry, the safety from TCU. What do you know? It's a safety. What do you make of that, Sack? Why do you feel like the name Mark is no longer draftable? You know what? I've done a lot of thinking this draft season,

and I haven't thought about the dearth of marks, but there could be something to that. The dearth of marks, that should be the name of this episode. That seems to be something you would know. Why are there fewer marks? I don't know. Are they marked men, right? Are they, yeah.

They're off the mark. They're off the mark. I don't have a good answer for you there. Okay. Did you consider Mark? Maybe we could ask Harry Roseman. Did you consider naming Casey Mark? Mark was not on our bracket, I believe.

But that's okay. I got nothing against the name. Yeah, not for us either. There you go. Devin, a lot of love in the chat, it seemed, for the Mark Martin shirt. Oh, good job. I was wondering where that was going. But was that the plan all along?

Sometimes the plan just comes to you. That is impressive. That is really impressive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, let's hear the backstory with the shirt. eBay. eBay. That's the backstory.

Okay. But, yeah, so my girlfriend's really into NASCAR. flexed yeah she grew up she grew up a joy legano fan and it's been kind of a dire fan for for him really since he started in NASCAR and he's won the the NASCAR shaping each other couple times but but I started getting into it went to my first NASCAR race last year the Chicago street race um which is really cool um it almost got rained out because it was like record rainfall that weekend in Chicago, but, but yeah. So that's kind of the backstory behind it, been getting to NASCAR, something I watch kind of

around this time of year on Sundays and kind of fill the void of no NFL. You know, I... That's the most NASCAR talk we've ever had on the show. Yeah, I like that. People in the chat say, I'm bringing zero drift today with my outfit. That's literally what was said. I got to say, I got to keep Bow on us sometimes, right? Number one.

And then... What does that mean? I can't out. I can outdo you with my fashion every day. Well, that's not what keeping me honest means. Well, that's what I mean.

Like I, you know, and then the other thing too is I... But I think you're using it. I think you're using the idiom in reverse. Okay. And then I want you to view me not just as like a fashion icon, but also for my football opinion.

So sometimes, sometimes like I go... You're more than just a sex symbol. Yeah, I got to go a little more basic some days, but I will work on it for future episodes. Okay. I mean, I didn't notice the comment, but I think it was, yeah. I mean, we don't have a Mark Martin shirt.

I know. I don't own a Mark Martin shirt. Now I got to scour. If you had to wear a NASCAR T-shirt, Zach, whose visage would you adorn? I really don't know much about NASCAR. So Joey. Lugano. Maybe that.

I would probably wear the Pocono Speedway because that's a shout out to Philly or Dover, because that's a shout out to Delaware. Yeah, so I would do either a Pocono Speedway or a Dover shirt. Believe it or not, I have done some work in the NASCAR space. Have you? Yes. Some social media content for the return of the Tide Pods car with Matt Kenseth and was on set as we recorded some spots with Matt Kenseth at the Joe Gibbs Racing Factory. Big show was there.

Paul White. Dynamic stuff. Have you been to a NASCAR? I've never been to an event, actually. I've been to the Hall of Fame. And I've been to the Joe Gibbs place, the headquarters, and I've sat in the car, but I've never been to an event itself. I haven't either during my time covering UVA and VALTEC.

Bristol Speedway was a big deal down there. And I spoke to a lot of the other writers about covering NASCAR, but I've never been to a NASCAR event. Could be something I need to add. There you go. All right, Devon, outside of safety, as we close in on the end of the episode here, who are some of your other guys who you might want to pound the table,

able for maybe give us like a one undervalued like first round guy who you think is not getting enough love and then somebody beyond that see kind of undervalued player first round maybe we've talked about everybody too much for anybody to be

undervalued in the first yeah I think that is kind of a tough one to answer just because I feel like we've kind of run the gamut on first round guys so I'll go to the second one in terms of just a favorite pure player, you know, just that comes to mind. I would say Zach Frazier, guy from West Virginia, is one of the guys that I really like.

I don't know if I pound the table for him for like the Eagles, but I would pound the table in general. And I think I would take him first round, honestly, if I were a team that needs an tear off its alignment or center, just because I think, you know, he has kind of the wrestling background that everyone loves in interior offensive lineman, you know, multi-year starter captain, but also what he is able to cover up

for West Virginia's deficiencies next to him. You know, he was blocking two guys on one play several times throughout his film in terms of picking up multiple blitzers, passing off stunts, just a really smart player that fought his way to try and

practice down at the senior bowl, even though he broke his leg maybe two months, two and a half months earlier, which shows you his dedication, what he wants to bring to the table and just his grit and determination. You really have to have that grit to last so long as into your offensive lineman. We saw it with Jason Kelsey, obviously, who retired, but I think Frazier is going to be a really good player and a team is going to get really good value out of him, whether you get selective early in a second round or early in the third. My last draft question for you. We haven't really talked about quarterbacks for obvious reasons.

I mean, Caleb Williams is the number one pick. Who's your number two? My number two is Drake May. You know, I know the league seems to be training towards Jaden Daniels and him being the second pick for the commanders potentially, but I still really like what May brings to the table. You know, as a processor, as the ability to make plays out of structure,

I think his running ability has been, kind of undersold as well. I know a lot of people love Jaden Daniels and what he brings as a runner, but I think May has some escapeability to him, although I don't think that's his calling card. But I like what he brings to the table in terms of down-to-down, you know, I won't say consistency, but down-to-down thought process and how he's getting to reads and how he's making plays. And I think his weapons let him down a little bit in 23 as compared to 22. There were some perfectly placed passes on this film, whether it was against Clemson, NC State, and in ways he's able to do to make plays under duress, under pressure,

and how you still was able to lift North Carolina into making them competitive, even though their roster was a far cry from what Sam Howell even had back when he was at North Carolina, I think was really impressive. And, you know, it gets a lot of comparisons to Justin Herbert, which I can see. but I think, you know, landing in the right spot is going to be key. I don't think he should. I think he's a guy that's going to need some time to develop and really, you know, kind of hone in his skill set.

But I like what he brings more in terms of his profile and have done it for multiple years as compared to Jane Daniels, who obviously blew up this past season and still was a really good player. He's slightly behind, you know, Drake May in my ranking, but I like May a lot. Brenna, do you mind flashing up the super chat there? I can't see it from, there we go. For Bo Wolf. Oh, it's, oh, it's Foo-W-W-W-A.

Somebody was telling me that Fuaga is that there's an N. It's Fulanga, but I guess not. There you go. There's a super chat. I'm going to have to double-check that based on, but I appreciate that. I'm the one who mispronounced his name, it's not Bo. So I will take responsibility. I actually do have one last question for you, Devin.

You alluded before to having been a player yourself. So tell us what position did you play, and who in this draft reminds you most of the player that you were. That's a good question. I actually know the player Ralph Babbat, but I play, I played tight-in and fullback. So Ben Cinnett. Yes.

Bang! That's my guy. Look at that. Okay. What college? Linden War University. Very nice. Very nice.

But yeah, I think Senate because he played kind of in terms of like... He's a gamer. Yeah. Well, that, but also... And you can tell he knows what he's doing. Like, I, you know, I feel like Ben Sennett's going to be working out the Inquirer in like 10 years. It's going to be great. I mean, maybe the Eagles selected.

So we'll see. All right. I like that. Well, Devin, thank you so much for taking the time. We really appreciate it. We will be back tomorrow at noon. We'll talk about what we heard from Howie Roseman and Devante Smith today. And draft talk.

And again, we don't know that. We may not address that. I mean, he might not say anything. So I'll say hello to Nick. Just so I know that he's speaking. So on the show tomorrow, we'll say, you said hello to him. I'll spend 20 minutes on that. I'm always happy to talk about Nick.

Nick, you're appreciated on this seat here. Probably more so here than in the building. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.L.Y. Eagles podcast. Thanks again to Devin. You can follow him at Real D. underscore Jackson on Twitter. And we will be back tomorrow. Make sure that you like, subscribe all that good stuff. Thanks to Brenna for stepping in today.

We'll talk to tomorrow. And as always. We love you.