PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Eagles Training Camp, Day 2: How Bryce Huff, Jalen Carter are adjusting to Vic Fangio’s defense

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

The Eagles’ second day of training camp included another strong performance from Jalen Hurts. But how about the group he’s playing against? Vic Fangio discussed Bryce Huff’s progress before practice, and Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter are emphasizing conditioning this season. Zach Berman and Les Bowen discuss the latest at training camp and will focus on the revamped defense. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good afternoon and welcome to a Thursday edition of the PHLY Eagles show. I'm Zach Berman here with Les Bowen. I say Thursday edition, but this time of year with training camp, it's all running together. I don't need to tell you that. You had a tweet out year 26. Is that right? 23. 23.

I apologize. You have 23 of Eagles training camps. So you know this time of year well. Les, thanks for joining us today. Oh, it's wonderful to be here. I'm fresh off the practice field and to give everyone just a quick update because we'll get into some big picture talk. But then also from what happened today, like I mentioned in the open, Jalen Hertz, another strong practice. The ball barely hit the ground.

He was efficient. He got rid of the ball quickly. That's what jumps out. He's moving well. He's making good decisions with the ball. You don't want to read too much in the two days. But it's worth noting because during the spring in the limited sample size we had, J.O. did not look that good, and he's looked really good so far.

I'm curious your take on that in a second, but also A.J. Brown, play of the day, down the right sideline, J. Owen Hertz, hits A.J. Brown beats Darius Slay. It's like, it's like, whole home now. You just expect that from A.J. Brown. On the injury front, Landon Dickerson was limited, lacerated toe. Second day of that, he's progressing, but still not in full teamwork. Orrin Burke's missed practice today. And Jeremiah Trotter Jr. left practice at the end. It looked like a scare. But as I was driving in here, I saw reported by the inquiry that it was just cramps. So should be okay. So that's, we'll interspers some of what happened in practice in this discussion. And we're going to get into the defense specifically. And you have a piece out on all p.hly.com right now that you wrote

yesterday. You were at practice yesterday. But let's start with Jalen. Because it's typically, the quarterback's the big angle. What did you see from Jay-Oen yesterday that either gave you optimism about how he looks in this Kellynmore offense or that that made you think, all right, let's wait and see. Well, I thought he looked good. I didn't see anything bad yesterday. I saw a couple things I did notice is there were a lot of design quarterback runs yesterday. We were never sure how much of that was still going to be.

And we don't know yet how much of that. that's going to be in the offense, but it certainly looks like they're setting that up to be something they still do. And the other thing I noticed was dumping off to Sequin Barclay several times. I mean, we're really projecting here, but maybe he feels a little better about that than he did his options that he had previously, you know, when he was, when people were covered. Maybe he'll do that pretty, you know, like almost like Carson Wentz used to look for urts or something like that. In your experience, do you find that there's a correlation between training camp

performance and in-season performance? And I ask that because in 2020, for instance, Carson Wentz did not look good. Right. And he did not look good that season. That's a good example. Yeah. 2017, Carson looked really good. And he had an outstanding season.

Now, there's probably examples in between there. But at what point this summer do you think it's safe to say, all right, Jim, no one's got this figured out. And at what point would you say there might be some reason for concern here? Boy, I don't really make sweeping conclusions off of preseason and training camp. You're right. Sometimes you can tell. It's easier to tell what's going on if there's like catastrophic injuries or if people are yelling at each other or, you know, if they're stopping practice and waving their arms and pointing to the sheets. say, no, no, no, we want to do this? I mean, that makes it a little easier. But I've seen bad years with good training camps, and, you know, I don't know.

It's, I hate, I know everybody says this, but the joint practices with the Patriots, that will mean something to me, even though the Patriots are not a good team, I don't think. That always shows you something. I think, although I think I mentioned this to somebody else, the last one I was at was a couple years ago in Cleveland. Yes. And I found that one very frustrating because both teams had guys that were a little banged up. Sure, Miles Garrett, I remember.

They kept, we kept expecting these big matchups that never happened. Yep. You know, so it ended up not being as revelatory as I hoped it would be. I was envious of you on that trip because you went to Jason Kelsey's old, old stomping grounds. You asked Jason for his favorite bar and you went. Yeah, it was, it was really weird. What I wanted, I had an idea of doing a story if there was a,

a place in that area that had like Jason Kelsey jersey up on the wall and everybody there knew Jason. I could write a story. I'm all in those stories. I like those. So I went there. He told me a place. He said, I don't think they have a jersey up on the, because this was before he really hit it big. And he was, I don't think they have a jersey up or anything, but I like this place. So I go there and it's kind of, there's not very many people there that night. It was a midweek night. And, you know, I'm having dinner at the bar there, and everybody's nice, but I'm thinking, well, this isn't going to be, I can't really get a story of this, which I didn't. But I hear this booming voice behind me. God, Lus Bowen's here.

And it's Jason. He's come in to say hi and sit down for a minute. That's on brand, too. Yeah, Jason to go to his favorite bar in Cleveland Heights. That's a very nice little town, by the way. Cleveland Heights? Yeah, very picturesque, big trees, nice houses, cute little downtown. I've I've I've I've been to a lot of these players hometowns

had never been to Jason Kelsey's hometown so next time I'm in Cleveland I need to stop by but speaking about Kelsey Cam Juergens it was interesting watching him to him today Kelsey asked in terms of making you know he was he was blocking down field you you really saw him on on his feet he's a natural center and he said that he called himself an undersized guard last year which he was right he said he he he really didn't need to change his body much this offseason. But what I'm fascinated to see here is that Jalen Hertz made a point yesterday, and you were there, I was saying that he wants control at the line of scrimmishes here. He's deferred that to Jason Kelsey in the past. But now,

you know, he's in communication with Cam Juergens about it. Cam says it's like something that they continue to work through. This dynamic of Cam Jurgens, you can, can't necessarily ascertain a center's performance in these training camp sessions without pads on, as I think it was Jordan Milata today said they're basically in like shirts and underwear. Yeah. But, a, you can say the athletic traits. And B, you can also see like the way he's working with the other guys. When they talk about the adjustments at the line, they're talking about the blocking, right?

I mean, Kelsey wasn't changing the play or anything. No, no, yeah, he was, but he was making the calls. He was making the calls at the line of scrimmage. And if memory serves, and I feel pretty strongly about this, this was actually changed during the Howard Mudd era from the quarterback to the center. So that was 2011, is that right? Probably. And because I recall specifically talking to Michael Vick in 2012. And Vic said this was something that affected him, right?

And he didn't make the blocking calls? Yeah. Yeah, well, that he was used to that, and then they kind of went to the center there, right? And so, and Jason Kelsey, obviously, the knowledge that he has, the relationship that had with Jeff Stoutland, that's been his responsibility, and Jalen was deferential to him. But Jalen very much wants to take over that this year. Now, I think Hank Fraley did that for Donovan McNabb, I'm pretty sure. Interesting. And then Jamal Jackson after Hank.

I don't know if Donovan ever, maybe they went back and forth on it, but I don't really remember. But yeah, it's part of Jalen taking ownership of the whole thing, I guess. If he does a good job with it, that'll be another check mark for him, you know. On the topic of the offensive line, speaking to Jordan Milata today, you saw yesterday, they had some pre-snap penalties. And this was something that Jordan and Cam Juergens particularly took umbrage with, right? They were not happy about it.

They ran Gezzers after practice. So they ran sprints after practice. And this was something that Jordan and Cam initiated. Lane Johnson, kind of the veteran of the group. He was doing that. Jordan said this was all about that group kind of playing to a standard. The standard that's been set with the offensive line. And he thought they really cleaned up the pre-snap penalties today.

But I bring this up because I don't mean to make every show and every week about replacing Jason Kelsey. But this is something that's. on fans' minds. Yeah, it's a huge thing. And Jordan Milata really is taking on more of a leadership responsibility. Yeah, then that's really great to see because that was the biggest thing you worry about. The on-field performance, the center matters, but the center isn't, you know, the left tackle or the quarterback or anything like that.

But the leadership and the institutional knowledge and things like that are what you really miss more, I think, even than the physicality of Jason Kelsey, the quickness. Now, we don't know how the sneak play, the push, push, or whatever you want to call it, is going to go without. Jason was so good at getting low there and, you know, using his leverage. But, Juergens was there. I'm sure they talked. I don't think Jurgens is dumb, so maybe it won't be affected very much.

As far as the depth chart today on the offensive line, and we'll get to the deep. defense in a bit, but on the offensive line, same as it was on day one, because Landon Dickerson did not participate in the team drills. So Mackay Beckton continued to play left guard in Dickerson's place. Tyler Steen remains first team right guard. I don't think in the short term we'll see any change there at right guard. I do think they're taking a long look at Mackay Beckton. Matt Henckton. Mackay managed to keep his Gatorade down today. It certainly seemed that way, yes. Now, I was watching from behind the end zone. today.

That was the vantage point that I wanted. This might be a shock to the audience. I'm not particularly tall. So sometimes when I'm on the sideline, unless I'm far behind the ball, I might miss something. When I'm behind the end zone, they're coming toward me. I have a better chance of seeing things that way, although sometimes you get a better look of the defense than the offensive personnel.

But it certainly seemed like Mackay Beckett and kept his lunch or his liquids at least in his stomach that we chronicled yesterday, Bo, was really into the regurgitation report a day ago. Well, I won't belabor that, but it was, that was right near me, and I was like, man, that's a lot of gator. And I don't want to belabor the J-1-Hertz, Nixiriani dynamic, but I'm always interested in your perspective. And I say veteran reporter with much respect, because you've seen.

firsthand different quarterbacks here different quarterback coach dynamics this is a topic that we you know that i i wrote about on all p hl y dot com anyone who covers a team has been writing about this has been talking about this do you think this is much ado about nothing is this is this summer drama if you will or do you think this is something that we're going to have to monitor oh we'll have to monitor it but here what he said yesterday was pretty much what i think which is that when things are going good, the quarterback coach relationship is very good. When things are going bad,

and especially when things are going bad with the offense, if the head coach is running the offense, they're going to be ticked off at each other. As long as it doesn't go any deeper than that, you can get to a situation where maybe the quarterback loses respect for the coach. or the coach loses respect for the quarterback. More confidence in. Yeah, and is going around telling his buddies, you know,

they ask, they expect me to win with this guy, you know. I don't think we're anywhere near that point yet. I don't know, but I don't see any indication of it. I think when you get to that point, you know, Hallie Roseman or somebody has to be smart enough to know that that's not going to work and you have to get rid of one of the other of them. But again, I don't see any indication of it. I think it's just what Jaylen said yet.

Not on the same page. It was a frustrating situation last year. Now, I wish, and I think I said this on Twitter or X, with the way they do this now with the press conferences, everybody's shouting questions at Jaylen. And you can barely hear. Yeah, and Jaylen especially. Jaylen's like this from the microphone.

Nobody, yeah, anybody from the Eagles moves it up or anything. And they've got us next to fans that are screaming for some reason. So, but anyway, you can't just say, okay, Jalen, you know, I get that you say everything's fine. What the hell was that you said before? Why did you word it that way? What did you mean? And also, in the day or two after that, why didn't you issue some sort of clarification when this was getting wildly, you know, blowing up all over the problem?

place, but there was no opportunity to do anything like that. Yeah, you're, you know, they, they did let that hang in the air. And then yesterday was his, his, his chance to kind of clarify or provide more perspective on it. I do like to be relatively transparent with the audience about this. Like, it's, it's something I've been thinking quite a bit about in terms of, I don't want to belaborate in the sense that in, I wrote this in the lead of my column today, you know, nothing makes football observers more like marriage. counselors than the coach quarterback dynamic like there's a fascination with it um and there is there's also this misconception that you that you that you have to like really like each other yeah no you don't

bellichick and brady 100% exactly i can name you know Aaron rogers and anybody he ever played for yeah uh that's just not how it works uh i think the longer a relationship goes on the more It gets. It's easy to like the guy right off the bat, but as years go by, they're a little, you know, he did this in this game and I really, you know, put me in a bad spot. And, you know, these things, these grievances build up sometimes. But again, if things are going well, you don't, it's not something you have to worry about. Yeah. And, but, but, but two, like, that's, that's also why I think it's, it's worth bringing up because you, you also don't want to be the reporter who, at the end of the season, if things go sour, and all this comes out about, you know, a coach and a quarterback budding heads or if there's some type of disagreement, right? And then your head was in the sand saying, hey, there's nothing to look at here. This is just petty drama.

Years ago, I was late on the Carson Wentz thing. I kind of saw it from his perspective for a long time and I still think you know 2018 and 2019 and 2020 the quality of the offense around him especially the weapons kept going down down down yeah Travis Folgum Greg Ward yeah everything was his fault you know but I I was a little stubborn in that regard I didn't really understand the dynamic I didn't I wasn't Carson was a very difficult guy to get much of a read on sure you didn't get to talk to him at all off of the podium. It just took me a while to kind of get inside that because when he first arrived, he seemed like the greatest guy in the world.

Yeah. But that's like, you know, as a reporter, you really want to kind of have a sense of what's happening as opposed to trying to figure out what happened. Right. Because when you're playing catch up with what happened, there's a lot of different versions to it. If you're living it as it happens, you tend to have much better sense of what's real and what's not. So I imagine this is something we'll be discussing quite a bit throughout the year,

but I agree with your central thesis there. If they're winning, everything's fine. If they're losing, it's certainly reason to dissect. We're going to get into the defense in a bit, but before we do, I want to tell everybody about our friends at Miller Light. because a lot has changed over the years. One thing that hasn't, less Bowen covering training camp. Another thing that hasn't, the great taste of Miller Light.

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but the future is bright with shady rays. And let's put on our rose-colored glasses. Or sometimes as Eagles, people who talk about the Eagles say, they're Roseman-colored glasses. And explain to the people why the future is bright for the Eagles, brought to you by Shady Raids. Head to ShadyRays.com and use code P.HLY at checkout, or 35% off polarized sunglasses.

So I'll pose this question to you. From your perspective, I'm putting you on the spot here, what's the biggest reason, the biggest reason that the future is bright for the Eagles? The biggest reason. They have as good a weapon array as there is in the NFL, I think, except maybe 49ers, but that's, other than that, there's nothing that meets their bunch of weapons. Yeah, you hit it on the head, and you mentioned it earlier when talking about

Carson's weapons. And I feel like every time I make this point, I know I need to text Greg Ward an apology because I always use him as an example. But I covered a year when Greg Ward, Travis Fulgum, and J.O. and Rager were their top receivers, right? And then you look at a, at a wide receiver core that has A.J. Brown and Devante Smith. And you're like, and by the way, you think back to the early McNabb years when it was Todd Pinkston. And, you know, you had torn small. Charles Johnson, James Thrash. Kevin Curtis was their big signing. The name Douglas.

Yeah. And so to have A.J. Brown and Devante Smith in their mid-20s signed the long-term deals, if you want a reason why the future is bright, if you want to put on those Roseman-Coward sunglasses, this is why. It's because they have outstanding skill players. Yeah, plus Barclay and Goddard. We didn't even mention them. But yeah, it's as good as skill group as I've ever seen in the time I've been around the team. The group that needs to defend those skill players is the defense.

And we're going to get into that here. You wrote about the defense on all p.h.oI.com today. And I thought it was good perspective because there are a lot of changes here. It's Vic Fangio's a unit. You had a chance to speak to guys like Darius Slay, you know, some of the leaders on the team. What insight did you glean from the defenders yesterday? It didn't. It was interesting.

It was a little different perspective than I had had going into this. My feeling has kind of been, well, they've really fixed a lot of things here. They've shored up this. They've shored up that. But maybe it's just these two guys. But Slay and Graham really emphasized what a transitional time this is for the defense. Not just Vic Fangio coming in. They didn't really make a big deal out of his scheme being different or anything like that.

But just that leadership with Fletcher Cox gone, Slay, for the first time, really since I've been around him, talked a lot about the young guys. Sure. And he even said something like, it's not going to be long until they replace him, you know. He's 33. And I think there's a very good chance. To be 33, right? Yeah.

I would love to be 33. That was a long time ago. That was a fun year. That was about 1989 for me. But anyway, Slay, I'd be, I wouldn't be surprised if this. This is his last year here. You know, I don't know what the contract ramifications are of that. But I think given the fact that they drafted two guys high, you know, I just think,

and they've got other guys that they've been Kelly Ringo and guys like that they've been bringing along. McPherson, Isaiah Rogers, obviously, they have under contract. You know, it's a transitional time, I guess, to get back to my central point. The edge rush with Huff as the leader, supposedly, of that effort is going to be different. The tackles are very, very different without Fletch. We don't talk that much about the linebacking corps because it hasn't, we don't see it really having been greatly improved from last year, but it's different guys pretty much than last year. You know, even if they're to the same skill level, it's different guys. And the secondary is going to look very, very different,

especially if Sidney Brown isn't ready for the opener, which I doubt sincerely that he'll be, having torn an ACL in January. So this is really, it's not just a shoring up of the defense, which was kind of how I was looking at it. It's trying to get a whole new group together and on the same page. And that is a bigger deal maybe than I thought. So a few depth chart things there while we talked about

defense. Keeley Ringo was the first cornerback with the starters today opposite Darius lay yesterday. It was Isaiah Rogers. I point that out because it's not Quignon Mitchell right now, right? Yeah. It's it's Rogers and Ringgo. And I'm not surprised. I mean, a rookie is a rookie, you know, especially in a fairly complex defense. Sure. You know, there used to be a time, I don't know if this is still true, but rookie corners really, you didn't look for, it's just like with a rookie defensive end, you don't look for 15 sacks. Sure. You know, and you don't look for standout starter play on a Super Bowl contender from a rookie corner. But I know that's changing and I know he's very well thought of,

but I'll be a little bit surprised if he ends up at least week one. Sure. Week 10, maybe not. But, you know, I didn't expect Mitchell to come in there and be the number one guy right off the back. I thought in, again, it's day two, right? we're going to be doing a day 12 podcast and I'll be in my car driving home listening back to day two and I'll be laughing at like

why am I making such a big deal about the depth chart here? But yeah, I do think Quinnion Mitchell should be the frontrunner to win that job. You think? He was the highest, he was their highest grade cornerback in the draft and this isn't them just telling you that. It's rare you draft the guy who's the first player drafted at his position because it shows you right there.

what they thought of him. But there were, what, 12 teams that had a chance to draft him who didn't. I mean, it's not like he's the number one overall pick or something. I'm not disparaging Quinyan Mitchell at all. I'm just saying it. I don't see, I mean, Isaiah Rogers was a pretty good starting

corner before he got into gambling. You know, and he's been in the league. He's been in the league a while, you know, I mean, I just don't know if they want to, it depends on how they want to do it. I mean, the talent obviously, Quinnian Mitchell, obviously. has the talent but do they want to with a corner do you want us him to take his lumps early or do you want to kind of ease him in i'm more of an ease in guy yeah but when and keely ringo who who i was

bullish on when they drafted him um because they drafted him at age 20 6 2 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 he's actually younger than quinion Mitchell really and yeah that's you know i mean quinion Mitchell was a four-year player from the Mac, right? And so Quinaw Mitchell is already 23. That's another factor in this. That's true. The adjustment curve there. So I am, you know, I know people want to know how Keeley looked.

Keely looked fine. He moves well. The question with him is often the change of direction component of it. He didn't have to do much of that from what I was observing today. Again, I'm watching the whole field. You don't have the film to watch Sean, so you're not keen in on one. player and I was focusing actually more on Bryce Huff today, which we'll get to in a bit. But yeah, so when I was seeing some of those, I didn't think he was a greasing in coverage,

and I'm fascinated to see how that pans out. It's also worth pointing out that at linebacker, Zach Bond for the second consecutive day, just like it was during the spring, Zach Bond is first up at linebacker. Zach Bond's right there next to Devin White. And this is year three for Nicopa Dean. This time last year, Nikobe Dean was the top guy. It certainly seems like this is Bond's job to lose right now. Well, Dean missed some spring, right?

He did. Yeah, he was coming back from foot injuries. Yeah, well, he's always coming back from something. And that's something he really has to put behind him. But Bond, not being an everyday beat writer kind of guy anymore. So Bonn was with the Saints, right? Yes. And he was more of an edge rusher?

So he was actually more of a special teams guy. Okay. And he wants to be more of an edge rusher. That's kind of the interesting thing. Well, that's not what they want him to do. No. And so it's interesting that you bring that up less because when he was drafted, or I'm sorry, when he signed here, he was excited about the possibility of rushing the quarterback.

Right. Getting back to what he did at Wisconsin. I remember that. Yeah. I thought maybe he had done that with the saints. Okay. So yeah. So he did do that a bit.

He was a backup of the scenes. He was a part-time player, mostly special teams. He's a guy that Eagles targeted on day one. And when the Eagles signed him, you know, talking to people behind the scenes there, they thought that there was a lot of talent there that he could almost be used like Andrew Van Ginkle in that defense last year. Van Ginkle was an edge rusher. So I thought that might be the case.

And then when Vic Fangio brought up, I asked Vic about the linebackers during the spring. And the first name he brought up was Zach Vaughn. And everyone's kind of looking around. I'm like, really? And then we... I noticed that too. And then we watch practice and Zach Bond's out there. And now here we are in training camp.

And because you were saying, all right, Nicola Dean's coming back from injury during the spring. Maybe in summer Dean will be first up. And now here it is two days in a row and it's bond. Now, Dean has mixed in with the ones. Jeremiah Trottery Jr. even mixed in with the ones today a bit. But I do put... I lend credence, if you will, to who's the first guy up at this...

because you go into the day with those lineups, right? And so that's what stood out to me. Well, it's really interesting because coaches have guys like that, that they want to acquire and they want to play. And sometimes they're right. Sometimes they have the exact right idea about who a guy is and what he can do for them. Other times, not so much.

And I'm drawing a Biden-esque blank here. the undersized middle linebacker they got from the Falcons to replace Jeremiah. Mark Simono. Mark Seminoe. Yep. Jim Johnson loved Mark Seminoe, thought he was going to be at all pro for the Eagles. He was just, he was that. And it just didn't happen.

He wasn't big enough. He wasn't all that fast or instinctive. He was a nice guy. He had, I think, blocked a punt in a playoff game for the Falcons and helped them beat the Packers in a big playoff game. So he was, you know, he had a little bit of juice going into free agency, but he was not really a starting quality Super Bowl contender middle linebacker. He could do a lot of things when David Acres got hurt. I think he kicked an extra point or a field goal or something, but not Jeremiah Trott. You know, I'm trying to be selectively

revealing on the show sometimes. My quick Mark Seminole's stories, Mark Simono introduced me to sushi. Oh, okay. Yeah, I had not eaten sushi before. And Mark Simonel said that was his favorite thing to eat. And so I went to Janartis that night back, you know, back then. Oh, right. And that's where they have the best sushi.

And I remember leaving Novacare and going to Janartis and getting a spicy tuna roll. And that, ever since then, you know, that was my introduction. to sushi. I married someone whose favorite meal with sushi, and so now we, a lot of sushi. And it's, I mean, no disrespect to the Gianardi sushi, but I've had sushi. That's a bit better than that, that sushi. But Mark Seminole introduced me to, yeah, to sushi. Great guy. Yes. Yeah. He played, I think, like, nine-on-nine high school football. I remember that, too. I did a story on him. So we'll be. But yeah, but coaches get this, you know, idea of what somebody is or what they could be.

And I think it's particularly dangerous when it's what they could be rather than what they've done, you know, previously. And in this case, it's, again, you know, a projection of what this guy can be. So we'll see. But Vic Fangio, you know, we certainly have to give him a lot of rope here. And so the centerpiece of Vic Fangio's defense is going to be Jim and Carter. And so at today's practice, Jimon Carter had a play late in practice where I don't have the lineman who he did it to. He just pushed the guy off him and, you know, was able to penetrate the backfield.

He's their best player from where I stand on defense. And he knows that he needs to take on an even larger role this year. Actually, his emphasis this offseason was conditioning. And it wasn't conditioning necessarily because he was out of shape, although he did, you know, he did regress or at least his production plateaued late in the year. Certainly did. But even more so. he's going to play a lot of snaps.

And, you know, Jordan Davis made a reference when I spoke to him after practice that if it was up to Vic Fangio, these guys would be playing 10 snaps in a row, right? And Nick Siriani maybe wants them to play six instead of ten. But the point is, is Vic's background has not been rotating the way Jim Schwartz has. That came up yesterday in some of the questioning. Yeah. Yeah, and that's really interesting. I didn't really, I hadn't thought that through very much.

But yeah, the rotating thing here goes all the way back to Jim Johnson. Yeah. You know, and Andy Reid used to talk about throwing fastball at the defense. They would bring in guys like Indy Kalu and Derek Burgess. And, you know, they wanted to, they wanted fresh legs in there. You're right. That is, I guess that's not Fangio's way. And given what we saw the second half of last season,

and a point can be made. that there were a lot of snaps being it was chicken and egg, but were there a lot of snaps being played because they couldn't stop anybody or were, you know, they were just in shootout type games against good offenses, you know,

and that wore them down, you know, but yeah, you can't have that happen again this year, absolutely. And I don't want to put you on the spot as far as evaluating the defensive line from one practice, but you had an interesting quote in your story from Brandon Graham essentially saying it's about these defensive women.

Yeah, he was, he's kind of in a almost ambassadorial role now. You know, he was like, it's about 90, 98, 93 up front, you know, and it is. I mean, and Milton Williams, fourth year now. Sure. And everybody likes him. Everybody thinks he has potential. But he hasn't really, you know, made himself. Last year was the year he needed to take that leap and in doing it.

So, you know, there's a lot to be proved here. There really is. And that was something else that Brandon said. We've got a lot of guys with a lot to prove. Yeah. So as far as as far as John Carter, like it's a limited sample size, but I have seen what fans want to know about him, which is like he is a force there. And practices actually benefit him. Like I recall talking to someone with a different team last year.

who was who was saying that like in one-on-ones this this this guy's not like he is he's so hard to stop and just his his sheer strength the athleticism that he has um you're going to see a better jalen carter this year i don't think i don't think expectations are too high in talking to jellan he's embracing those experts like he he recognizes that he wants that he knows he can be a premium player. And I actually think more of the question is the guy next to him. Right. Well, I was just going to say, the deal there is, yeah, there were times when Fletcher Cox, when the average writer or fan, you know, would watch a game and not notice Fletcher Cox that much and think, well, Fletch didn't really do much. But a lot of times he was taken on two guys

so that somebody else could do something. Well, I think that's also the dynamic with Jalen Carter, except Jordan Davis hasn't really, there have been a few games here and there where Jordan Davis has really been a dominating player, which is what he was drafted to me. Exactly. And that needs to happen, especially if Carter's getting doubled,

Davis has to be a monster. Sure. You know, and I want to see that. Javon Hargrave was, you know, really good at that when Fletch, that was the best guy Fletch played with to take advantage of teams really, keying on Fletch. For some reason, it isn't easy for some linemen to make that, you know, to realize I've just

got one guy here. I've got to beat him because my, the better player next to me, they've got him. You know, I need to get there. And it's a mindset, I think. I want to have deeper Jordan Davis and Bryce Huss and Bryce Huff discussion. We're going to have that in a minute before we do. I'm going to tell you again about Shady Race, okay? Because we talked before about how the future is bright, but you know what else is bright?

The sun. And I was out there on the practice field today, and I did not have sunglasses. And I said, you know what I need? I need my Shady Race because get ready for the season ahead with quality shades built to last. Our friends at Shady Raise have you covered with premium polarized shades that won't break the bank. Shady Race is an independent sunglasses company, offering a world-class product that's rated five stars by over 300,000 people. I'm trying to get 300,000 people to read our stuff at all phtly.com and rate us five stars. They've already done that with Shady Rage.

Their shades have durable frames and crystal clear optics, making them the perfect choice for all outdoor adventures, including watching football practice. They have hundreds of options to choose from, so you're bound to find the perfect pair to match your style. They probably have a style in your favorite team's colors. Shady Rays wants us to tell you about our experience wearing Shady Rays. Mine's pretty obvious. it's football practice right i'm out there for for three hours i'm there at 10 a m uh and the sun's coming up you know on on on on on a sunny day you're trying to make out whether it's jordan davis or jell and carter making the play and if you're squinting you're going to have a hard time doing that and that's where

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giving out their best deal of the season. Head to ShadyRase.com and use code PHLY for 35% off sunglasses. Try for yourself the Shades rated five stars by over 300,000 people. And I mentioned, I'm trying to get all PHLY. I've got 300,000 people reading us and

reading it five stars. A big way we're doing that is having less Bowenright for us. Oh, yeah, right. And you can read Les's work. You can read Bo Wolf's work. You can read my work. You can read Charlie O'Connor and Kyle Newbeck and Derek Brunner. I saw Derek come in.

We have an outstanding state. You can read Jim Salisbury. You can read some of John Foley's work is also for diehard members. You can read all of that, but you have to be a diehard member. And being a diehard member gives you access to premium written content. I might be biased, but I would not be saying it. believe it. I think our staff is as strong as most, you know,

as most staffs you can find in terms of the level of depth, the level of insight, the writing quality from Eagles practice yesterday. We have three columns up there already. We're going to continue to have comprehensive coverage, but it's not just a premium written content that you get. If you're a diehard

member, you also get 20% off our events. You get a free shirt when you become a member. I never got my free shirt, and I am a member. I know who you can talk to about that, okay? And we will take care of that for you because we have a great, because we have great merchandise for all teams, even the city as well. So people are, and you get 20% off all merchandise too if you're a diehard member.

So look, you get enough stuff. It pays for itself in addition to the outstanding content that you're going to read. People ask all the time how they can support PHLY. The answer is this. Head over to all p.gly.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. Zach, while you were reading that, I was looking at our crawl there from our supporters, and there's an extensive discussion of grocery store sushi. Okay.

Maybe we should get a sushi sponsor here, you know. I like the way you think, yes. And I promise you, I will eat it, and I will endorse it, and I will give you the Mark Seminole's story. Where's your favorite sushi? Well, there are a bunch of takeouts in, and generally, we do takeout. Sometimes we go to a place. There's Fuji in Haddonfield. Yes. The place in Morristown, what's the Yamamato or something like that. Sagami is in South Jersey.

Sagami is unfortunately the lady that ran that just passed away. I received that message. At the moment. We're hoping they get reopened again. That's one of Jeffrey Lour's favorite. That's the O.G. Yes, South Jersey. But we're very fortunate where I live in South Jersey to have a lot of like Little Tokyo is good. Mega sushi is good. There's a lot of good sushi in South Jersey. I'll have you know. Comes right out of the Delaware River.

Look at that. And the Cooper. Yeah. Look, I love sushi in Philly, in the Philly Burbs, in the Philly grocery stores. But my favorite sushi is at a place called Sugarfish. It is in L.A. Whenever I get off the plane at L.A.X, I go there, and they have something called I got to have it, which is you pay $35.

and it's like a five-course, you know, sushi, sashimi. It is awesome. So I can tell you this. Anyone who's going to the Eagles Rams game, if you want to randomly bump into me, because I've tried to like randomly show up sometimes where I know a player's going to be somewhere. If you want to randomly show up and see me, you can hang out at the sugarfish in Marina del Rey or in Santa Monica. And I will run into you. I promise you that because I love sugarfish sushi.

That's a good deviation though. I don't know what Jordan Davis's opinion on sushi is, but I know Jordan Davis is eating healthier. Because Jordan Davis is in much better shape. A matter of fact, let me tell you this anecdote here. Vic Fangio, in the defensive meeting room yesterday, singled out to the whole group the bend with which Jordan Davis played. And he said he had not seen Jordan Davis play like that before.

And this is important to point out because I asked Jordan about this. I said, Jordan, you know, I don't know what it's like to be 6,6, 330, or 350. That might be a surprise to people. Like, it's easy for us to talk about bend. What's the challenge at bending at that size? And he acknowledged this is, this is like, this is hard for him. But if he plays tall, he's out of the play, basically. Yes.

And so this is, and a lot of the bend for him comes down to conditioning, right? And him working. So it's not just technique, but it's, it's conditioning. he says that, you know, he's not where he wants to be right now, but he's better than he was in the spring, and he's getting to where he wants to be. I would imagine it's a little bit like weightlifting, where if you're in really good shape,

you can get that deep, you know, pull and then come back up, whereas if you're not as good a shape, you're going to do a little bit, you know, you're going to kind of... I need Joey's opinion on that one. Yeah, yeah. But Jordan Davis, the one thing that bothers me, Zach, this is year three yes and if you go back and read the stories from last year's training cap about jordan davis what were they about being in shape you're absolutely right great shape he was in

well you know i mean that i don't doubt that he's in great shape right now but is he going to be in great shape in october november december that's really and there's no way to know that right now but clearly that has not been the case through two full NFL seasons. You're absolutely right there. Real quick, Matthew Mottie in the chat. I see your note. I owe you an email response. I promise you I will respond to your email tonight or tomorrow morning,

but I will take care of that signed copy for you. Yes. So, and for all the audio listeners. I'm right out of this case. Yeah, for all the audio listeners, they probably enjoy a nice esoteric mention to the chat about an email you need to respond to. But Jordan Davis, look, he's, I think he's, he's looked solid so far in camp. I want to do that.

He's from my hometown of Charlotte, North Carolina. You're going to, Mexenburg County, right? Yes. And so, the Eagles, he knows a lot's expected of him, okay? And I think you hit it on the head, though. It's similar to talking about the running backs catching the ball out of the backfield. I can tell you everything I see in practice in July. I can tell you everything he's saying in August.

What I can't tell you is how he's going to look in November and December. And that's really the test. Because I do think week one, week four, week six, Jordan Davis is going to look good. He looked good last year. He did. And I think you're going to continue to see progress from him as long as he doesn't get hurt. But what you want to see is how he looks like as the season progresses. Another player on that defensive front who I keyed in on a practice today.

and I should give you like inside practice notes on it, but honestly, you're not seeing much when you watch these practices without pads on from the defensive front. But it's fascinating to watch Bryce Hoff. And I'm going to read a quote here from Vic Fangio. Bryce off, who the Eagles signed essentially to replace Hassan Reddick. Hassan Reddick was still on the team then, but the Eagles knew Reddick wasn't coming back at that number. They were going to trade Reddick. They signed Bryce off to be a top edge rusher for them. They paid him $17 million plus a year.

right i know that's not 28 30 million that you know reddick might want but 17 million in the years more than what reddick was getting last year right uh still puts him among the top 20 in the in the in the league at his position for a guy who doesn't really have that resume yeah and so brys off someone who you know if you watch us every day you know going into free agency i said this is a player who i think the eagles are going to target this is a player i think the eagles should target he has legitimate pass rush ability but the question with him is that he's been a situational pass rusher right he only the most he's played in season is like 400 plus snaps and before last year he wasn't anything special right exactly so vic fanjo was asked about brysoff becoming an ever down player

and vick said and quote everyone thought he could and they and knowing the floor was rushed downs and he's taken the challenge on very well he has the talent to do what we want him to do it's just he's got to get familiar with doing it it'll be a work in progress does he look like he can do it today no eventually he will. First off, I love the honesty. It's refreshing. What do you make of that perspective from Vic Van Gio? I would love to know what he's talking about because as you said, they're not in pads. He's not tackling anybody. So how do you know that he's not there? So yes. I mean, is he not lining up right on rushdowns? So his point was this. He has the talent to do it, but he's never been asked to do it. He didn't

do with the Jets. So maybe he's thinking he's not there in terms of what he showed me on film as a New York jet. And through two days here. Yeah. Like he's still, he's not at the, he says it's new and he's got to become

more proficient at it. I mean, it's like, it's like me trying to be a host, right? Right. You know, Oh, you're doing very well with that.

That's nice you to say, but I'm still not proficient at it. So, yeah, similar to that is it. And so Bryce off, now, now Bryce off, spoke to him after practice as well.

And he says, this is something he can do. He's played on early Downs before. It's not as if, He only played on third downs. He said it was just because of the depth that they had with the Jets, right? The players they had there. It's not something he was asked to do as frequently, but he's confident.

He can. He says he's a physical player. He thinks that's really important. But as far as what I see when I watch him in practice is I don't mean to make the comparison to Hassan Reddick, but it's a worthy comparison to make for two reasons. First off, he's directly replacing Hassan Reddick. And second off, there's like this idea. that Howie pool, you know, you know, how he won, how he did a great thing here.

The fact that it all has to do with the Jets. Yeah, the Reddick going there, Huff coming here. It's almost like a one-for-one trade. And from a team-building perspective, from a team-building perspective, I agree with how he did. I understand what Howie did. Three and a half years younger. Yeah, and he was able to reallocate that money, right?

And they were able to sign Devante Smith to an extension, signed Jordan Milata to an extension, Hassan Reddick still isn't in Jets camp because he wants to be paid. That's a fascinating situation. I'm sure you guys have discussed it. Yeah. Yeah. So Hassan Reddick's older, wants to be paid. He wants to be one of the top paid edge rushers in the league.

The Eagles get future draft pick compensation for him and they get money they can reallocate. But it's not all about off-season mechanics. Like what matters too is how the player is on the field. And I think there is a delta between Hassan Redick and Bryce Huff. And I understand, pads aren't on right now. I get it. I get it. And if you go into the first two days of Hassan Reddick's practices in 2022, the questions were Jonathan Gannon, why is he dropping in the coverage?

But when you see Hassan Reddick rush around the edge, he has the bend. He has the speed around the edge that's just rare. And with Bryce Huff. And even for a guy who's not that big, he's physical. I mean, he doesn't, it's not just speed. I mean, he has a good wallup to him when he hits that tackle too. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I just, again, I know it's two practices.

So don't say I'm making like, you know, a mountain out of something. I shouldn't. But I don't see that same type of ability through two practices. But it's hard. The thing with Asan Reddick, and the whole thing is fascinating to me, because the Super Bowl season two years ago, he might have been the best pass rusher for the eagles i've ever seen now now i didn't cover reggie white or anybody like that no but you saw some really good you dude douglas uh you know jvonne curse

trinkpole yeah yeah you know i that was 17 sacks uh you know and he was in the the backfield constantly i was amazed at how good he was and he was not as good last year um for whatever reason. I know he was ticked about the contract, but you're not going to get. I mean, if Bryce Huff can get you 17 sacks, then he's going to want a new contract too. Sure. I don't think you're going to get to that level. I think you have to make up those plays among a group of people. Sure. And that's going to be very difficult. I mean, I really think Eagles fans can crow over the Jets not being able to get Hassan to come to camp and whether Hassan, has really, you know, gone off the deep end here, but him not being here is a significant loss

that is very, very hard to make up. It really is. Well said. And so a few things to build off there. First off, Jordan Maillada after practice, when he was asked about Bryce Hoff, he brought up what we've been talking about. It's hard to judge us in pads. He really likes Bryce, he really likes Bryce Hoff's getoff, okay, which is important for a Nedge Rusher, like, like, how, how quick you are off off the ball. And he has shown that on tape. But like I said, they had, especially in 2020 when there was 70 sacks, they were elite in getting to the quarterback.

And if they are mediocre at getting to the quarterback, and it's not just Bryce Huff. But it doesn't matter to me what you do on your back end, what you do, you know, who the linebackers are. I think they have to get really good pressure up the middle from those guys who were just talking about. Exactly. G. John Carter in particular. Right.

And then Josh Swett on the other side, haven't seen enough through two days that tell you he's back or he's shot. I did ask Vic Fangio. Still a really important player. Huge player for them. Huge player for them. And I asked Vic Fangio, like, what indicators you're looking for to show that he is the player he was two years ago? And Vic said it's mainly movement, right? And I think the workload is something they're going to monitor with Josh Swet, but it's how well he moves.

And that's really what Vicks looking for there. And there are times when, for instance, I see Josh Sweat dropping in the coverage here. That's probably not the way you want to use him. But it also, it's a way to evaluate the movement ability. But like Bo and I have talked about Nolan Smith is a big part of this too. And the Eagles need Nolan Smith to be a difference to make around the edge. And boy, that just, you know, that we saw no sign of that as a rookie, but not everybody, you know, not everybody who doesn't show a great sign as a rookie

turns out to be a bust. It's just that it would have been nice to have seen something more from him as a rookie. With Josh Swett, you know, you have been in the locker room as I have. Josh Schwett is a specimen. Yes. I mean, physically, if you wanted to,

if you were doing a movie and the guy is like an elite defensive lineman, this would be the guy that you'd show in the locker room with his shirt off, you know. I mean, he's built, he's got the narrow waist, the long legs, the arms, the chest. I mean, obviously he would have been a very high draft pick. He had not blown up his knee in high school and took three years to come back from that.

But there's nothing physically that keeps him, I think at this point, I think his knee's okay. Yeah. There's nothing physically that keeps him from being as good as anybody. You know, I just, he's an enigma to me. He really is. Yeah, Bo teases me about. you know, the way I, I kind of talk about Josh Sweat. And my answer to that is, is this isn't me, like, sitting here saying, like, I'm, you know, I'm a football GM.

This is, this is me talking to Lane Johnson. This is me talking to, like, like, people in that locker room who, who, when I ask, early in the career, you know, about this guy, about that guy. They say the same thing. They're, they're like, this guy is just rare. He has tools that you can't teach, right? He does things you can't teach. And as I've said, from the middle of 2022 to the middle of 2023, he was among the top five in the league in sacks during that period. He fell off a cliff last year.

The league spoke about what they thought about him when the Eagles couldn't trade him for what they wanted to. But his baseline has been like six and a half sacks. I think that the ceiling is still there. He's still young. He's 27 years old. And I think Josh Swet's a player. who people aren't paying enough attention to. And you know this well.

It's a contract year. And so in contract years, it can go one or two ways. Sometimes it can affect someone in a detrimental way. And sometimes it could be like, all right, if I want to get paid, this is the year I've got to put it all together. And the Eagles needed to be the latter in Josh West's case. That's absolutely true, especially since you don't know what you have in Nolan Smith yet. And, you know, it's that edge is going to, that's,

maybe an under overlooked point of possible problems for the Eagles, I think. And so to tie this all together, I am curious in the sense that you covered Jim Johnson, you cover Jim Schwartz, you covered Juan Castillo, you covered Sean McDermott. Like, you've covered a spectrum of defensive coordinators. That's not to get Bill Davis. Yeah, Bill Davis, a very nice man. Wonderful. as we kind of wrap this all up,

what are you looking for from Vic Fangio? And do you think that he can make the market difference with this group? I think he can. For me, the bar is pretty low because last year was almost like having Juan Castillo and Jim Washman out there when you had Matt Patricia and Sean Desai. And I've said this several times. There was a game where one of the commentators said it looked like the line, the linebackers, and the secondary were all playing three different schemes.

Sure. When somebody says that on TV, that's bad. Very bad. Yep. So I don't think Vic Fangio has to clear a real high bar. Just getting this organized and making it look like they're playing an actual NFL defense would be one step. You know, that would be very positive here. Now, I'm a little concerned about.

the problem he had in Miami because he is an older guy. He's almost as old as me. Three years, I think. Yeah, I think you keep young. You're hit. Right? But he, you know, some of those guys in Miami really didn't like his old school ways. And that can be, despite all the plaudits and all the success he's had over the decades, you know, there's a reason why Mike Keenan doesn't coach NHL teams anymore. There's a reason. Sure. Here's why Bill Belchick might not be coaching this year too. That's exactly right. I mean, I everybody's saying the right things now. All the players are like, oh, he's an old school guy. I grew up with coaches like that. It's all just wonderful. But when if they lose a few games and he's, you know,

getting in guys' faces and sitting them on the bench and they're not getting reps and they're, you know, it can change. And I'm real curious about how that's going to go. But I think in terms of just organizing the defense and making it coherent, I have no question that he will do that. Those in the chat, you can roll your eyes when I say this because I know some of you rolled your eyes earlier when we talked about Jalen and Nick, but it's similar to Jalen and Nick. And that if the Eagles win, then Vic Fangio, this personality is going to be, is exactly what the team needs. They needed this old school approach. Like, they respond to that. And if the team loses, it's going to be the opposite.

It's going to be he can't connect with the players. Exactly. So really it's going to be result dependent. We look forward to chronicling that. Before we do, though, we have a lot of practices to get into. Tomorrow's not one of them. The Eagles have a walk through tomorrow close to reporters. Bo and I will be talking at 2 p.m.

We'll be catching up on the first two days and looking ahead of what's to come. The Eagles are off on Saturday. They're on the practice field. No, I'm sorry. They are practicing on Saturday. they are off on Sunday, then they're back Monday next week. So that's the schedule. So we will have all your updates on all-P-H-L-Y.com.

I'm going to have a write-up tonight off of some of the notes from today. You can continue to monitor us to monitor us throughout the weekend. I have a short-up where, what's it called, Julia, camp in 60 seconds. Yeah, camp in 60 seconds. We're doing that every day. You can see that on social. You can see that on YouTube. And look forward to having lessest columns on all-ph-H-L-Y.com.

Bo's coverage on all-P-H-L-Y.com and this show every day at 2 p.m. So until tomorrow, Bo would say, as always, we love you. I would say we'll do better tomorrow. Thank you for watching.