PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Echoes of Philadelphia Eagles past: Can Saquon Barkley be 2011 LeSean McCoy?

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

Today’s framing device is a way to contextualize the expectations for specific Eagles players heading into the 2024 season. What’s the right precedent from recent history for Saquon Barkley? Is the Tyler Steen/Matt Hennessy dynamic akin to Isaac Seumalo/Stefen Wisniewski from 2017? What do Nolan Smith and Nelson Agholor have to do with each other? Zach Berman and Bo Wulf dip into their knowledge of Eagles past to better explain what you should expect from 10+ Eagles heading into the year. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Y. Eagles podcast on a Tuesday, Bo Wolf, Zach Berman, back on the saddle. After the long weekend, Zach, I know you must have been itching to get back behind the mic. Been looking forward to seeing you, to seeing Julia, and doing another show, another week, another chance to discuss many things. We'll be at practice this week. So it's a fun time of year, relatively speaking, and excited to, yeah, excited to talk about it with you. We've got a nice framing device for today's episode.

We want to use some echoes of recent Eagles past to maybe set the expectations, what are realistic things to expect, levels of performance from some of the key Eagles on this team. I think you and I both have five that we're going to go through, but also some good user suggestions. We want to talk about maybe hash a few things out. Some other very minor Eagles news that you maybe wanted to address, and also some league-wide potential news that I would imagine falling on difficult reactive ears to Emily Berman. Yeah, so the first one being Josh Sweat changed his jersey number.

Oh, you're going to go with that one first. You're going to skip over, Emily. You're going to thumb your nose at your wife again? I'm not doing that. I'm doing the one pertinent and most pertinent to the Eagles right now. Oh, geez. And this had- I'm like, can't catch a break on this show.

This had social media a buzz over the weekend when Josh Sweat, according to the team website, changes his number from 94 to 19. Okay, it's a number change. But there's actually more to this than meets the eye. Oh, ha-huh. So per NFL rules. from starting in the 2020 season. Defensive linemen are restricted to 50 to 79 and 90 to 99.

Linebackers, though, are allowed to wear 0 to 59 and then 90 to 99. So this change signifies the fact that Josh Sweat is now labeled a linebacker as opposed to a defensive end. I don't know if that change has been made on the Eagles website, but from, the league's filing system, he would now be considered a linebacker in order to be eligible to wear number 19. So that's interesting. It just, it kind of shows you what we already knew. The Eagles have this, this three, four defense. Why does that matter? But it could also matter. Let's say theoretically, Josh Sweat has 16 sacks this year. And the Eagles say, this is the Josh Sweat that we know that this is the Josh Sweat that we always envisioned.

he could become, and we want him to be part of the team long term. But Josh Sweat says, hey, I just had 16 sacks for you. I want to be paid like one of the league's top edge rushers. And the Eagles are saying, you know what, we really want you, but we don't want to give you a five-year deal at $25 million a year. So we're going to place the franchise tag on you, right? And this, just humor me here in this hypothetical situation. Okay.

The linebacker franchise tag is actually more than the defensive design. franchise tag and you might be sitting at home wondering how could that be well because roger godell has working on these antiquated system and it's a very dumb thing well yes the franchise tag goes based on all linebackers so edge rush so the outside so you're t j watt outside linebackers so you'd be paid the average the top five um the average of the top five salaries of linebackers as opposed to the top five salaries of dns and so this past year i think it was like four million more at linebacker compared at the end. Yeah, but it is just something to kind of store away here.

And so I like to always think there's more to the story that meets the eye. Well, there's more to the story that meets the eye. It's a position change and potential salary ramifications also shows the Eagle scheme. And, yeah, so when we talk about defensive linemen, we wouldn't be including your Josh sweat, your Brandon Grand. They were specifically edge riders. I mean, when I'm talking about defensive linemen, and I am including Joshua and Brandon Graham.

They are edge players, whether they are standing up or not. Okay. That is the part of the group that they are. Anyways, I thought that was interesting. What do you make of the aesthetics of the change to 19 for Joshua? People are very, very down on this. Yeah, why? Well, what I don't understand is people are like, oh, my God, this is terrible news for Josh White.

What's going to happen? He's going to go a half season without a sack? Like, what's the worst that could happen? It's actually, it's good news for Joshua. It shows that he is the cloud to claim 19. Right? He wore nine when he was at Florida State. Okay? So maybe nine is a number of that's significance for him. He's not allowed to wear 99 for the Eagles. That's retired by Jerome Brown.

When he came to Philadelphia in 2018, he wore 75. He quickly changed the 94 when he was able to do so. So you kind of think... This is interesting, actually. Is there anyone else on the roster who has had three different numbers? Oh, I'm sure there's guys who've been. cut, but guys who've been on the team continuously? No.

Probably not, right? No, this is very like LeBron-esque of him, the change a few times. So, also... And you've always put the two of them on the same level. Not necessarily, but Josh Sweat sends to now 19. I actually, since now the Eagles

have a zero and a 19 rushing around the edges, your grandfather's going to be so confused watching these games, right? Like, I say you're not your specific grandfather. Like, everyone, you know, Both dead, unfortunately. That's why I'm very sorry. I certainly did not mean it like that.

The 80-year-old Eagles thing. Would be confused for them to be watching. The 80-year-old Eagles fan who's used to edge rushers having a certain number are going to be pretty confused by this. But anyways, Josh Sweat 19. Tanner McKee goes from 19 to 16, okay? And he bumps Will Greer out of 16. And Will Greer. Segment.

Furious. Will Greer now goes to 13. So we had the conversation last week. Who claims 13? The answer, of course, is Will Greer. Will Greer gets 13. But if you're an Eagles fan, I'm sorry, if you're a player on the Eagles, you can hold out hope that you can switch the 13 come to the regular season because Will Greer is not going to be here. Jeez, the poor guy.

Will Greer is just trying to catch up on what's going on with the Eagles, tuning on the show, and you're counting him out. I think Will Greer knows he's not going to be here. I mean, I would think that he harbors some aspiration that he's going to be here beyond the summer. Otherwise, why would he be here? Why would he be here? Because he's on a roster. He's going to get preseason film. You think he's entering this with absolutely no expectation of even having a chance to make the team.

I think he's understanding that unless there's an injury, they're not going to carry four quarterbacks. Injuries happen? Injuries do happen, yes. They're not going to keep four quarterbacks. Maybe they keep a fourth on a practice squad. He's working all the angles. He's becoming best friends with Sequin Barclay. He knows what he's doing.

This is a guy who's got Machiavellian operations going on in his quest to make the roster. He's not coming in here thinking he's got zero chance. He's going to thumb his nose at you. Is that a thing? Become friends with the running back and you can make the team? Can't hurt. Why don't you just become friends with everybody? Maybe he is.

I think that's a beneficial thing. Be a good locker room guy. Be the straw that stirs the drink. The thermostat, not the thermometer. That as well, yep. Okay, now tell us about the league-wide proposal that may be happening that has to be bad news for your marriage. My marriage is wonderful, thank you.

Although the text... Anniversary tomorrow. Anniversary tomorrow, eight years, very excited. What are we going to do for the show? For the show? Yeah. Nothing. I mean, we don't have to recognize it on the show.

Anyways, the text was... Maybe we can get a... A slideshow of pictures from the wedding, Julia? Can we work on that? No, no, no, definitely not. The text that I got when I sent her what it was, and I'll get to what it is. Her thing is, is that a joke?

That's a direct quote. Is that a joke? And I just wrote succinctly, no. What is this is? And what did you say? What did you say to that? Wow. That's a bummer.

Tom Pellasero from NFL Network. That's an outstanding job. And I'm quoting his tweet here. End of OTA's question mark. The NFL Players Association is working to finalize a proposal to overhaul the offseason starting as soon as 2025, eliminating voluntary on-field work in the spring in favor of a longer training camp ramp up with players reporting in mid-June to early July per sources. So you've been in the NFL ecosystem now for two decades.

What were your initial thoughts when you saw this? Personally, I hope that's. doesn't happen. I, you know, I value the time off in the summer. This would mean like no time off in the NFL calendar, essentially. The players would be off when there is like full draftsies and stuff. So, you know, we selfishly would not benefit from this. From the players' perspective, you can understand why, to some degree this makes sense, because they would then get there, their summer would be the spring, right? Now, I would imagine that if they started the, training camp at this level in mid-June or whatever, it would not, you know, it would not be

training camp per se. It would be basically OTAs just affixed to the beginning of training camp where it's like you're in, you're in shells, you're just doing scheme stuff, you're ramping your body up that way. But it does strike me as, I mean, listen, the NFLPA is doing what the players want. Sure. Sure. You know, this is, this is what they want. Or at least. The theoretically, yeah. At least some percentage of them do. The leadership wants this. Exactly, yeah. It does strike me as like, especially if you're going to 18 games, like that is a long haul. Sure.

And so, I don't know. Yeah, there's a few different ways to look at this. First off, Jeff Schwartz, former NFL player, said that this surprised him because he said the OTA period is more laid back, right? Players like hang out each other. You're not in the building very long. Training camp, as we know, is much more intense. Now, I think you made a good point. This wouldn't be training camp in the traditional, like you wouldn't report in June and have

two a days, right? Right. But it would probably be, it would probably be like OTAs. It would be like some practices a week or whatever. Yep. I don't know. Pat McAfee said that it's similar to what they did during COVID.

He thinks most guys would love it for their bodies and such going in the training camp. I think for the perspective of coaches and executives and whatnot, it's obviously not geared toward them. This hurts, hurts their non-football life in the sense that, Now, you know, buildings usually get off for about five, six weeks during that period. Your kids are off of school. If you're at that age, you know, where you have kids. You have time to kind of get away.

Now that time when you'd be away would probably be mid-May to mid-June when the kids are in school. Now, it's not done for that reason. What strikes me, and actually Andrew Brant brings this up, and I kind of thought the same thing. It's interesting. one time when they were doing UDFAs signing with the Packers, he called the guy and offered him a spot on the roster, and they were talking money, and the guy actually offered Andrew Brandt money to play for the team.

It's a great story. Can you believe that? It's a great story. I don't know why you mocked it. But I kind of thought the same thing. And by the way, all of these people, Zach, these Eagles reporters, they have no idea what they're talking about. They're telling me that the Eagles are going to eat Carson Wentz's

dead money? Are you kidding me? Stop, okay. They would never do that. No one in the history of the lake has ever eaten so much dead money. Why would they do that with Carson Wentz? I am an expert on this, and they would not do that. This was my expertise. Can I please carry on? Sure. Okay. You're funny, Bo. Packers are done with Aaron Rogers, by the way. There's no way he's coming back for one more year. So what I was saying was that players really fight for like this kind of stuff in negotiations. And I always kind of think that I feel the same way that Andrew said, owners and team executives are probably like, yeah, you can have working conditions.

It does feel like low-hanging fruit to fight for as opposed to like just a larger share of the revenue pie. Exactly. Like if you remember the lockout, one of the big things was like lighter practices, right, which coaches don't like. But if you're an owner, you're like, that's fine. You know, give me, I'm focusing on the revenue split, right? So I understand it's not, you know, these two things aren't mutually exclusive, right? Like you can have both in theory. But yeah, it seems to me like OTAs as it is are not that intense.

They're voluntary. Now, sometimes voluntaries with asterisk, but they are voluntary. You're not penalized for not being there. And I would imagine now that even if it's the same amount of time, like you said, it's a long haul to go from late June to, in some cases, early February, right? I mean, if you think about it, you report late June. You don't play a game until Labor Day, you know, until the weekend after Labor Day. So you have two plus months before you play a game.

It just strikes me as to exactly what you're saying. Like in the middle, everything in the CBA negotiations is a push and pull, right? And this is a thing that you're saying. This is a thing that you really want, like, is so important that you're going to pull a lever for in exchange for something else. Like, that doesn't feel like a great trade to me. Yes. It's not my life. Exactly.

I mean, I would say if you're as a player, as a group of players, if you feel that strongly about OTAs, do what the Eagles did in 2021. I talk to your coach and say, let's let's have X amount of time. We'll all come. And then we won't have Y amount of time, you know? There you go. How was your weekend, Zach? A nice weekend. It had quality family time.

I want to give a shout out to listener Andrew, who came up to me. I was on the beach. Andy. And he was very nice. Andy, Dandy. Did you take a look at your beach pod? No, no. I was actually reading Andy McCullough's book.

I was sitting there reading, sitting with Emily and the kids. And anyways... Did you take a look at his beach pod? No, Bo. Come on. And Andrew says to me, You know, he was being polite, you didn't want to interrupt. Of course, you can interrupt.

Like, I'm not, anyone can come up and say hello, right? Except for those teen mobs. Well, that's a serious thing. But Andrew is a listener of the show, and I appreciate it. And I asked him what we could do better. I asked him how this compares to when we did three days a week. But I appreciate the support, Andrew, and heard from a few other people as well.

You know, listener Jake, he actually said, Does Bo intentionally try to make you feel uncomfortable? And I said, yeah, it's actually, like, he's in on it. He knows what he's doing. He used a different term, like, you know, by some of the comments, by some of the comments that you make of, like, innuendo. And, yeah. It's not about making you uncomfortable. It's just the conversation.

Anyways, I appreciate everyone who comes and listens to the show. As I said, it's the most rewarding. part of the show. How was your weekend? Weekend was good. A little jaunt down to D.C. for a lucky guy. I love D.C. I mean, it was very nice spending time with family. Kids had a very good time.

You know, they like a D.C. I do not like a D.C., but that's okay. Okay, but you had a nice time. I had a good time. I told this story to Jamie when I was with him on the morning show this morning. Sunday morning through like early Sunday afternoon, I was on just an absolute dad heater.

Just like working on all cylinders. We've got the, you know, we're leaving the hotel. Kids go down with Rachel for breakfast. I got to pack up all the stuff in the room. We're talking, you know, one big suitcase for all our stuff. Probably like nine other bags that we've, you know, have different little things in them. I've got a couple backpacks. We've got these loose, enormous dinosaurs.

This momentiosaurus is like this wide. and I'm able to get it all in one trip down. I got the one hand with like nine bags in one hand. I've got the Mementiosaurus perched on top of the suitcase, rolling that. I'm wearing both backpacks, get it all downstairs. It feels, you know, that was like, okay, we're at the start of something special here. Then going to my brother's place, just one shot, very tight, perfect parallel parking job. Oh, that's impressive.

I mean, just nailed it from the beginning. Perfect. Then we're at lunch outside. And all of a sudden, like, out of the corner of my eye, I see a napkin flying away from the wind, grab it with one hand just like that. I was like, this was like, you know, 99-page overall. Just all the dad reflexes.

Okay. I mean, I was working on all cylinders. Really good stuff. What part of town were you in if I, if I may ask? by the Navy Yard. Okay. I know well, Nationals Park. Spent a lot of time there.

It's changed a lot over the years. As it has. I've been there since 2009. Yeah. Impossible to park. Gotcha. Okay. They had that big garage beyond left field,

but I think that's for a lot of people park. Easy Metro stop, though. You got the red line right there. That's also debatable. You got the green. That's green yellow, right? Sure. Okay.

Sorry. We did a little Smithsonian. Natural sciences for the dinosaurs? Great. Love Smithsonian. Yeah, of course you do. Ice Smithsonian. It's a nice.

Ice Smithsonian hop. Too crowded, but that's okay. Ice Smithsonian hop. Yeah? Yeah. What does that mean? Well, they're all free to enter, right? So it's great.

So you can. You can knock out a few Smithsonian in a day. You can do four Smithsonian's in one day. It's great. Okay. Yeah. It's no Hall of Presidents, but.

Well, it's actually better than the Hall of Presidents. You get diversity of museum choices. And like I said, no admission fee. So that's, I like that. Bo looks nice today. Emily says, Bo looks nice today. Thanks, that much.

Just because I'm on her side about no June training camp. I'm actually on her side. I mean, look. Tell her a happy anniversary on my behalf. I mean, I think everyone sees that. Happy anniversary. But the reality is I could say I like it for more football, but I think it would be more similar to what you said.

It's not going to be more football for us to watch. I think it would actually be less football. No, but from a this specific show standpoint, Sack, it would make figuring out topics over the course of 52 weeks a little bit easier. Oh, actually, it would make it much more difficult. You think so. You'd make it easier. No, because this is the thing.

They would report in late June or early July. But do you remember the COVID year, like Pat McAfee said, where they actually weren't on grass playing for like two, three weeks kind of thing? So actually, we wouldn't have this. this thing now where you have the mini-camp and you can fill three weeks with OTAs and mini-camps. So you would take that part out of it. You don't have the reaction, the preview for the OTA, for the mini-camps and the reaction from it. So you would, from draft to late June, you got two-month period there where you'd have to fill that.

There'd be no football. There'd be no press conferences. That's what you're going to have in June, mid-July anyway. What? Now. Yes, yeah, that is correct. That's going to be fun period. More post-draft, I think, unpacking.

Okay, fair enough. Okay. All right. Before we get going on the rest of the show and the framing device, the echoes of the Eagles past, let's talk about our friends at Rocket Money, because if you are a fan of not paying to go to museums, you're the kind of person who wants to save money at every chance you can get. Well, Rocket Money is the app for you because Rocket Money is a personal finance app

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Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash p.hLY. That's rocketmoney.com slash p.lety.com rocketmoney.com slash p.hL.Y. I was watching the T. Wolf's Mazz game the other night with Reid. He wanted me to put a live bet in. I did not do it. But if you're watching the T. Wolves Mavs game, the game four, and you want to put a live bet bet in, the place to do it will be the Bet Parks app. Because we're brought to you by the Bet Parks app. Get in the zone with Bet Parks. Bet Parks Sportsbook app. Money is in the moment. What events are coming up? Well, I always talk about the NBA playoffs.

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All right, Suck. into this device that we have for today. I probably should come up with a name for it with a bird pun, but that's okay. Those days are not always with us anymore. That's okay. Do you want to start? We just ping pong back and forth.

We also have some user submissions to go over. But I think the idea here, and you mentioned it in your teaser, I was sort of thinking of like Nicopi Dean. Can the Kobe Dean be 2022 T.J. Edwards, which would be a big lift for him. And I think probably an unrealistic expectation, given what we've seen from him so far. He's got to prove he can stay on the field.

He doesn't have that bank of NFL reps that T.J. Edwards did by that point in his career. But who are the guys who you have and tell us who you've looked back on? First off, good job on the framing device. When we were texting last night and you said, I said, I came some fun with this. I like this and started to do some work on it. So Milton Williams. Milton Williams. Entering the final year of his rookie deal.

Entering final year of his rookie year. Age 25. We're expecting him to become a starter in this odd man front for the. the Eagles. How about this comp? 2002, Darwin Walker. Darwin Walker was going into his third year, so not the fourth year, but age 25 season, became a starter. Hollis Thomas got hurt early that year, I believe, maybe preseason training camp. Darwin Walker steps in, has seven and a half sacks for the Eagles as the detackle really kind of burst onto the scene. Joe Banner signed him to a seven-year deal, seven-year contract extension. Seven-year deal. Yeah, I believe in October.

of that season, but Darwin Walker is actually an underrated player for the Eagles played next to Corey Simon, but that year, Hugh Douglas led the Eagles and sacks. I think N.D. Kalu was second in sacks. Okay. And then Darwin Walker, third, was seven and a half sacks from the interior, but the things that jump out there is that... The beginning of five years as a starter. Yeah, he became a starter that year. He was a third round, or he was also a third round pick, not by the Eagles. But he was entering his age 25 season, and the Eagles signed him to a contract extension. So that's kind of, that'd be a good comp for Milton Williams, would be Darwin Walker. I should know this. What is the story behind why Arizona let him go after one year

as a third round pick? Yeah, this is, this was a weird time in the NFL where they would, they wouldn't hold on the draft picks. He got, he got waived at the end of a training camp by the Cardinals, third round pick. A third round pick. Yeah. Year one, I think. Or did he play, you played one game as a rookie in Arizona, it looks like. Okay, so then, yeah, he got waived. The Eagles claimed him, and he was with the Eagles thereafter. Must I've done something. I don't know.

Let's see, Donald Walker, Wade Cardinals. That's an interesting one, though. And there's no doubt that it would be good for the Eagles if Milton Williams played to a level of establishing himself as a starting caliber player for them. You know, I think we talk about the Eagles' probably need one of Jalen Carter or Jordan Davis to take a leap this year. But if Jalen Carter is just about as good as he was last year and Jordan Davis doesn't take a leap, but Milton Williams does, then all of a sudden, yeah, that picture looks a little bit better at a defensive tackle.

I think that's, I don't know if it's like the most realistic expectation, seven and a half sacks, but it's a good bar for him to shoot for. So just I look this up, Rob Mottie for the Associated Press back in 2002. Rob the body, Matty. Says, yeah,

that Walker signed with Eagles a week after the Cardinals let him go was the activated for

all but one game that season and saw limited action last year until Hollis Thomas

got hurt at the end of the year. Anyways, but here, the Cardinals selected him

in the third round of the 2000 draft, the 70 first pick overall. He was cut after the first

game. Crazy. Yeah. I mean, what's Cardinals management thinking there? Crazy.

Yeah. All right. All right. My first one here, Zach, I'm focusing on Bryce Huff. Okay, now Bryce Huff, he's paid more money than the Eagles signed Hassan Redick for in 2022. But I don't think you can realistically expect him to have the same kind of impact that Hassan Redick had immediately in 2022. And so I'm looking at, you know, the last 15 years, the, you know, sack numbers for the Eagles. There's not really not a ton of guys in double-digit sacks.

as much as we like to think about their investment in that position. But one who sort of jumps out to me, and maybe the narrative works a little bit, is Connor Barwin in 2014, which was Barwin's second year with the Eagles after signing as a free agent. But that was the year that he exploded for 14 and a half sacks. And he always talked about he was really the beneficiary that year

of, like, Fletcher Cox having an amazing season, and he was the one who was there to clean stuff up. And so if you think of Bryce Huff as if Jalen Carter does make this leap and becomes the focal point on defense and the guy who's affecting the pocket and creating havoc for other people to clean up, maybe Bryce Huff can be the guy who benefits and gets hits those sack numbers for the Eagles. Now, Connor Barwin, also more well-rounded of a player than Bryce Huff is able to do more things, probably better against the run. Bryce Huff has to prove these things. but in terms of production and an increased role, maybe that's a good level for Bryceoff. I like that comp, and Bryce off could be so fortunate to have at that type of production.

I think you hit it on the head, Fletcher Cox's effect, that year, and you would hope Jaylon Carter can do that for Bryce off. But similar in the sense that free agent signings, you're hoping that they showed some promise with the team before, but then they kind of emerge into a better player. Connor Barman was a better player in Philly than he was in Houston. So I like that comp. I think that would be a good one to monitor, both outside linebackers in the Eagles defense.

Also, shout out to Connor Barwin, his basketball team Trieste. They want a big semifinal game on Friday. Go to the finals. Yep. They beat Fort Lee, 8568. Any Americans on that team? Well, they actually, there's a limited amount of Americans. they're allowed to have, but they have one American, Eli Brooks.

Eli Brooks, who played at Michigan. Eli Brooks played at Michigan. He was with the Fort Wayne Mad Ants in 2022, 2023, and it was with Trieste last year. But there's a limited amount of Americans you're allowed to have on the team, but their coach that they hired, Jamie Christian, is American. If you might remember him, I think he was at Mount St. Mary's as the head coach there. Let me see here. But he speaks a little Italian.

Mount St. Mary's Saziana and George Washington, and he's now Trieste's coach. Let me ask you this for Jalen Carter, who is not on either of our list. If you think of the arc of Fletcher Cox's career, what is a realistic season or expectation for Jailen Carter to have in year two? That's a good question. I would say 2014 Fletcher Cox when he actually did not make the Pro Bowl that year, but he played like a Pro Bowl. baller. And he said, I think he even said in his retirement speech that sometimes you get honored like a year later. Right. That's the year before he becomes like a six-time pro baller. He was a second team all pro that year 2014 was an absolute force for the Eagles. Only had four sacks, but he was

awesome for the Eagles. And I think if he can be that that 2014 player, then that would be a good sign. That'd be a great sign. Exactly. Yeah, that would be fantastic. All right, you're up. I am up here. Let me pull up my list. I should have led with this, actually, because this is what the teaser was. And this is going to be a fun discussion. Sequin Barkley, I've said, best running back since Lashaw McCoy. But which Lashaw-McCoy? I'm going to give you two years.

I'm going to give you 2010 McCoy and 2011 McCoy. The first one I put was 2011 McCoy. Hold on here. I'm being told that the video is frozen. Okay. Should we keep rolling here? Okay, we're going to keep talking for a moment. Yada, yada, yada.

Zach Berman. Yes. Bo, let's talk more about D.C. Your favorite thing to do in D.C., besides C. family. Leave. Wow. Why such? No, my favorite thing to do in D.C. is hanging out with my brother and his wife.

We're back? We're good. We're back. Okay, Bo and I were just talking about how great of a city D.C. is. So the users did, the viewers did not get to experience the, joy of reminiscing about my two years living in the nation's capital and the energy, I felt walking to work every day and seeing, you know, seeing all the different government, seeing all the different government buildings. And I would take that walk from the White House

to the Washington Monument and I would go to Kong. I mean, it's awesome. I would go to all the memorials. I love the, you know, my favorite one is the Jefferson. The Lincoln one is obviously probably the most famous. But yeah, I love Washington, D.C. Get my juices flowing when I'm in Washington. Anyways, let's get to LaShaul McCoy. Okay? So, Sequin Barclay, Lisham McCoy, 2011 McCoy played 15 games, had 273 carries, 1,309 rushing yards, 17 touchdowns, okay?

That's the big number there. Then he had 48 catches, 315 yards, three touchdowns in the air, so 321 total touches. Okay? But the 2010 McCoy didn't have as many carries, 207 carries, 1,080 yards, 5.2 yards per carry, so really productive. But where he was especially effective was catching the ball, 78 catches, 592 yards. So the framing, or the question I have for you is this. Do you think Barkley, if you're thinking 300 touches is the number that shoot for this year? Do you think most of it or do you think it's going to be heavy running the ball?

Do you think he's 250 plus 275 carries? Or do you think it's more kind of catching the ball? And also do you think he's the goal line player or do you think it's still the tush push? I think the tush push is like if it works, they're not going to stop doing it. They probably have to find out if it still works without Jason Kelsey and Kim Dregons. But if it's still as effective, if it's more of a job, Jelan Hertz thing, then I don't really think there's any reason to stop doing that, nor do I think they think that. In terms of the carries versus reception split, I'm just, you know, after the D'Andre Swift

experience last year when he actually, I was talking to Jamie about this on the morning show as well, like I look back on it and he actually ended up having more catches than I remember, but, you know, it was like, oh, DeAndre Swift, first day at training camp, like, oh, my God, there's like five passes to DeAndre Swift. This is what they're going to do. In 2022, they threw the ball to running backs less often than any offense in the NFL. Now they bring in DeAndre Swift. He's going to unlock this part of the game. And that didn't really happen. And so I know that this is a new coordinator and we'll see if Kellan Moore wants this to be a big part of the passing game. Maybe this is more of a Jalen Hertz thing. But I sort of need to believe it or I need to see it before I believe

it that they're going to make Sequin Barclay like a huge part of the passing game. I mean they have AJ Brown and Devante Smith and Dallas Goddard if those guys stay healthy. We've talked about that fourth option. It's not going to get a ton of balls but they need more from that fourth option. Sequin Barclay is the most talented

of the possibilities there but I think he's being paid to carry the running game. And they're going to try to utilize him in space but yeah do I think of those Lashon McCoy options, 78 catches? I think that's unlikely. I think 48 for 315 in 2011 makes much more sense to me.

Now to build on this even more, that 2010 team, the 2010 offense, had prolific receivers in terms of production. Deshawn was over 1,000. Jeremy McEwen was near that. Brent Selk had a big year. Jason Avant had a good year. The 2011 Eagles were a little more inconsistent through the air. I think Deshawn was banged up. Macone was banged up that year. either one hit a thousand yards. But yeah, that's so, so you would think the 2011 season in terms of production would be more comfortable. What do you think about the receiving split? I think it's going to, so I think 300 touches is what he's going to get.

Now how it's going to be split up. I do think he's here to run the ball more than catch it. I got to think that when you have Barkley on your team and knowing the way he catches the ball, it would be who of you to pass it to him more. And you have a different offensive coordinator here. Ezekiel Elliott, when Kellen Moore was in Dallas, caught the ball quite a bit. Tony Pollard had a good year catching, too. Both of them kind of mixed together who were having a lot of production through the air.

Actually, Zeke Elliott's best receiving year came when Kellemore was the quarterback's coach, but still in the building. So I don't think 78 catches, but. I actually think that 2011 comp 48 catches would be a good number for Barclay to be at. Okay. Zach, I want to talk to you about Anaya Smith. Okay, let's hear. Okay, the fifth round wide receiver, as we're talking about who can be the fourth option in the passing game,

is there a chance that he can, you know, earn the job of number three receiver? And I just, to re-contextualize how difficult that would be for him, Here are the seasons of sort of semi-recent to recent vintage of mid-round to late-round Eagles wide receivers. You tell me which of these seems best. And are we calling it from fifth round on, or are you including? No, there's a few others in here. So 2006, you've got fourth round, Jason Avant. Jason Avant turns out to be a very reliable slot receiver for the Eagles.

It grows into that role. If Anias Smith has Jason Avant's career, he should thank his lucky stars, right? Well said. As a rookie, Jason Avon had seven catches for six. 68 yards. Okay. That's what he did as a rookie. Sure.

In 2010, fifth round pick, Riley Cooper, different player. There are a few of these guys who are more downfield threats. Riley Cooper has a rookie. You know, this is a guy who, again, turns into a starting player for the Eagles. As a rookie, seven catches for 116 yards. In 2014, third round pick, Josh Huff. A similar body type. If you think about guys, the Eagles have drafted.

who Anaya Smith as a player is supposed to be like. It's like Josh Huff, right? This guy who's dynamic with the ball in his hands can work over the middle of the field. Josh Huff as a rookie, eight catches for 98 yards. Okay. Moving on. Shelton Gibson in 2017, the fifth round pick. Two catches for 11 yards.

Mack Hollins picked in the fourth round that year. Very good rookie year. The best rookie year of anybody on here. 16 catches for 226 yards. Big play threat. you know, a different type of player, obviously, than a Nia Smith. J.J. Arthago-Whiteside, a second round pick, guy they wanted to get the ball to, 10 catches for 169 yards.

Cuez Watkins, a sixth round pick, turns out to be the best guy from that class, but a different type of player as a rookie, seven catches for 106 yards. John Hightower that same year, the fifth round pick, was ahead of Kwez on the pecking order that year, 10 catches for 167 yards. I mean, there's one guy on here, Mac Hollis. who had more than 10 catches in guys who were drafted somewhat in the same range, just to say that like Anaya Smith, if he becomes a real part of the offense, that would be a surprise. I would agree with you there.

I like those numbers. I think the NFL, you know, I think receivers are better now coming out of college than they've been in the past. But I would have the same muted optimism about Anaya Smith in this offense this year than I think. some of the projections. I would imagine the Eagles continue to look, the fortify that position, and I think you did a good job outlining why you should be yeah, why there shouldn't be big

expectations that Smith is a big part of this offense. As a rookie, right? Like, you know, the Avant one is an interesting one, and now that's 20 years ago. As you said, things have changed. But even some of these other players where, like, they eventually turned into functional players for the team. But as a rookie,

it's a high bar. Now the depth chart does the depth chart does matter although certainly 20 doesn't help the case there you know there were opportunities for Hightower there were opportunities for quest Watkins but someone like matt Collins you know the eagles had al shan tory smith Nelson angeloar at that time 2014 with Josh Huff. The Eagles had Jordan Matthews and Jeremy McClain as their top two receivers. But yeah, and that's a really good point. I would agree with you there.

Okay. Over to you. Over to me here. My next one, let's go with Darius Slay. And maybe the comp is the 2003 Troy Vincent. Wow, you're living in the early 2000. Yeah. Look, Troy Vincent.

It's almost like that period of time is on your mind for some. reason. Yeah, although it is on my mind. Troy Vincent, 2003, the last year of his story of Eagles career, pro-bowler, okay, 33 years old. The Eagles had Lido Shepard and Sheldon William, I'm sorry, and Sheldon Brown waiting in the wings, okay, no pun intended there. They had, they were in year two, so not year one, but they were in year two, but they were ready to take over. Darius, I'm sorry, Troy Vincent in 13 starts, had three interceptions. Eagles were productive, that, that, year but but there really was a changing of the guard at the end of that season he got signed by buffalo moved to safety and but he had a great Eagles run Darius Lay this this might be the last

year of Darius Lay do you expect Darius Slay to work for the league office in his post-playing career I don't think so no no I mean I never say never I haven't ever I haven't asked Darius about or I haven't asked sleigh about it but I don't anticipate that that's the path he's going to go. So if you get 13 starts, three interceptions in a Pro Bowl season for a 12 and 14, I think, now you can't do 12 and 4 anymore, but 12 and 5 team, let's say, I think the Eagles would sign up for that from Darius Lay. No doubt. Yeah. And so this is more thematic of like, he's playing well, but everybody knows that this is the end. Sure, exactly. Okay, I like that. That's a good one. I want to find one for Nolan Smith, Zach. And, and, and, you know,

And I'm a little bit in between here. Now, I think you could make an upside case for 2017 Derek Barnett. Derek Barnett as a rookie. Five sacks. Not going to light the world on fire, but he was an important part of that pass rush rotation and looked like somebody who was going to be part of the pass rush for a long time. I'd say so. Right.

But I don't even know that that is a realistic expectation for Nolan Smith this year. And so I'm going cross-positional here. And it's not even a specific year. But I think a realistic expectation for the arc of Nolan Smith's career is kind of the arc of Nelson Aguilor's, Eagle's career. Eagles should sign up for that. Okay, so you got a first round pick who is disappointing early in his career relative to expectations. And then like the realistic, like realism sets in, right?

and it's like, okay, this guy's not going to be a star, but he can be a functional part, a competent part of a larger picture on the team. And so if it's like post-2016 benching Nelson Aguilore into 2017 Nelson Aguilor, maybe that is like a role that Nolan Smith can find. Yeah, that's a real good point because in Nelson's case, it was adjusting the role, like him moving to the slot, but there's also a readjustment of expectations.

that maybe he's not a number one receiver. But if you kind of embrace him for what he is and accentuate what he is, he could be a key player on really good teams. Nelson Aguilar, by the way, is going in the year 10 this year. So Nolan Smith should sign up for that if he could. But if you think back to Nelson Aguilor there, one thing that is also comparable with Nolan Smith is I remember a conversation with Malcolm Jenkins in the locker room during training camp that year

or maybe a little bit after when he said Nelson is the most talented the most skilled wide receiver that the Eagles have. He said Alshan and Tori Smith are more accomplished and you know like better and they're going to be the top guys

but Nelson just in terms of pure talent is the most talented one. Well Nolan Smith is when you look at like the athleticism that he has like the speed around the edge. I remember conversations with Lane Johnson going into maybe the 20,

21 season, 22 season when he would be like Josh Sweat is from like an athletic perspective is just a nightmare to block. And I think offensive line will probably talk about Nolan Smith that way, but it's a matter of putting it all together

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People are always asking what's the best way to support our show. And the answer is to become a PHLY diehard. And there's a lot in it for you. Head over to all-PHLY.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. Zach, give me your Dallas Goddard comp. My Dallas Goddard comp, and I was scanning Brent Selick years and Zach Ertz years, and I came up with the 2017 Zach Ertz. 15 games, 110 targets, 74 catches, 825 yards, 8 touchdowns.

Now, that would be a career high in receptions for Dallas. Goddard hasn't pushed the 100 target range, so I had to find a low-volume year, relatively speaking, Earths and Selk. Like I thought the 2000 and what was it, 2009 Seleck, a little too much action there. Certainly the 2018 Earths, too much action there. Too much earths, yeah.

Yeah, 2017 is a sweet spot. 110 targets is a lot. It would be dependent on Goddard staying healthy and being productive. But if you can look at 74 catches, 824 yards, and 8 touchdowns from Goddard, I think that that's a reasonable expectation. That should be what the Eagles hoped for from Goddard this year.

I know he would want to push a thousand yards, but I think 74-8, 24-8 is good range. And, hey, if it includes a critical fourth-down catch in the Super Bowl, plus the game-winning catch in the Super Bowl, then you would certainly take that as well.

Yeah, and if it includes, I only played 14 games, so maybe it is realistic. Okay. But I thought he played 15. 14, it was? It says 14. Okay, yeah. He missed the Rams game, because of a concussion.

And then he didn't play week 17. And then he didn't play week 17. There you go. Okay, that's a good one. I wanted to find a, we didn't have any safeties here, so I wanted to do read blankenship. I think read blankenship to me, stylistically, a realistic expectation is post-peak Rodney McLeod.

So, like, as Rodney McLeod was a declining player, I think Reed Blankenship can meet him on the, the way up there. And by that, I'm saying reliable knows the scheme, right? Very reliable tackler. Not like the most dynamic at that stage of his career

when he was not the most athletic guy anymore but still a good thumping presence on the defense. So 2020, Rodney McLeod is where I'm landing for Reed Blankenship. So the inverse Rodney McLeod, so you turn the 23 to 32, you get read Blankenship, right?

I think the Eagles should sign up for that. Rodney McLeod, I've said... And of course, for Reed Blankenship, this would be Rodney Cloud. Okay. I see what you did there. It took me a bit. I don't think of everything in those terms, but I see what you did there. Yeah, Roddy McLeod, I've long said, the most underrated eagle from the Super Bowl team.

I agree with that. I think that... And by the way, he's still going now. I think this should be his last year. last year. He was 30 in 2000. Sure. So read Blanketship, I think a solid but not spectacular player.

If he can get the late career, Rodney McLeod, that's something that the Eagles should definitely sign up for. That was actually Rodney. This was his second to last year. Second to last year. So he gets hurt the following year. Yes. He comes back and I think he played 14 to 15 games.

So again, with Blanketship, probably realistic. Sure. All right. Give us your last one. My last one, Devin White. And I'm comparing Devin. to the 2016 Nigel Bradham.

So Nigel Bradham signs with Eagles after a disappointing end to his Buffalo career and he reinvents himself with the Eagles or I should say reinvents but he reemerges into kind of the football consciousness into the NFL consciousness plays 16 games, one interception

two sacks, 102 tackles a few tackles for losses in there but was a good player for the Eagles now there was a scheme overlap. I mean he was returning to play of course, with Jim Schwartz at that point. But Nigel Bradham certainly looked apart. He looked like a bargain signing for the Eagles.

And it builds off of 2016 to be really productive in 2017. Signs the New Deal was never kind of the same thereafter. But the Eagles should hope that they can get a 2016 Nigel Bradham season. That doesn't get you into the Pro Bowl. It's not the type of season that Devin White had when he was winning the Super Bowl. but I think if Devin White has that type of season, then he could come back to Eagles. Well, it's an indication that you have made the right bet for agency and that maybe this guy can be a part of a team for a few more years.

Exactly. Now, the big difference, of course, is Bradham at that point signed a two-year deal or a three-year deal with the Eagles, two or three-year deal. And Devin White's only on a one-year deal for the Eagles. So a good year might mean he gets paid elsewhere next year, and the Eagles turn to Dean and Jeremiah Trotter. The other thing that could happen is that Devin White looks good, And the Eagles say, all right, he's the top linebacker now.

Nicopi Dean inconsistent. And White's the guy they kind of build around at that spot. We're going to talk about a few more of the suggestions from listeners. But my last one here, Zach, is Kellyn Moore-related. And this one, I think, is a fair framing. And it's lofty. But this is what Kellyn Moore was brought in to do. This is what he's being paid to do.

And this is the talent that he has at his despise. disposal. And I am saying the expectations for Kellynne Moore should be 2002 Shane Steichen. Yeah, that is. That is pretty easy. And it's very lofty. But Shane Steichen in 2021, you know, he takes over play calling midway through the season. But in 2021, the Eagles finished 11th in DVOA. Last year, the Eagles finished 10th in defensive DVOA. In 2022, Shane takes them from 11th to third overall. And given that everything that Kellynmore has at his disposal,

these offensive weapons, the quarterback, what we think the offensive line is going to be able to provide, if the Eagles do not finish in the top three, top five of the best offenses in the league, that would be a significant disappointment. Now, Shane Steichen had, this was year two. Yes. So it's a little bit of a different thing.

You're not coming in from scratch. You're not implementing something new. You have more of the familiarity, and the players know you well, but in terms of the leap that they need to make on offense and the role that he is going to have to play in making that happen, I think that is a fair goal to set for Kellyn Moore. And I think that is the rubic that he will be graded on.

That's a good one. I think you outlined a few important variables there. He was going into year two. So the big talking point that offseason was the familiarity that Jalen Hertz had with him. but the carryover is the offensive talent. They had offensive talent out of the gym then. They have offensive talent out of the gym now.

The schedule was certainly in the Eagles favor then. I think it's in the Eagles favor now. I've liked that comp to take it a step further here, and this ties into our show on Friday. Shane Steichen was identified as a head coaching candidate, and he got a head coaching job, and the Eagles then had to figure out who his replacement was that off-season. Now, there was a day.

natural succession at that point, but it is something to monitor. If the rubric that Kellynne Moore's graded upon is the 2022 Shane Steichen year, certainly Kellynne Moore's profile within the league, I would say he's stronger or has a higher profile than Shane Steichen did then, then it's reasonable to think that Shane Stuy that Kellan Moore has already been on the head coach's circuit. Sure, if they take this leap, Kellyn Moore will get the credit for it. Yeah, and he'll be probably somewhere else next season. Yeah, very likely. What do you think are realistic expectations for Quinnian Mitchell this year, Zach, using the recent Eagles history framing? Like is if Quinnian Mitchell as a rookie, not like the course of his career, but as a rookie is as good as 2017 Ronald Darby, is that good enough for a rookie?

That's probably good enough now. It has to be a greater volume of games. Sure. But in terms of – take out the injuries. Yeah, level of play. Level of play, yeah. I definitely think that's okay. that would be encouraging. Yeah, I found that, I wanted to find one for Quiney Mitchell, and I found that difficult. Part of that is they haven't really had rookie cornerbacks who have started. Right, but that's why we've seen so many corners come through here over the past decade.

Like, 2002, James Bradbury is unrealistic to expect from him. You would expect him to be better than 2003 James Bradbury, right? Is like starting Dominique Rogers Cromarty? like some high upside plays and you see the athletic dynamism, but he's not always in the right place and he's not a great tackler. Is that realistic? Is end of career Sheldon Brown? Like 2009 Sheldon Brown a realistic expectation?

I don't know. Maybe early career, Sheldon when Sheldon Brown first emerged into the lineup was not a pro-ball player for the Eagles, but was a real solid starter. I think that could be a good comp, too. Okay. One thing that, and we'll get to this. on another show, but I was thinking about this the other day, is, like, being the first cornerback taken, you're identified as the top corner in the draft, but that doesn't always

lead to, like, being a surefire regular starter. I mean, I think of, like, Justin Gilbert, I think it's Ray Wains. There are corners who, they're the top guys, but then pretty quickly, the adjustment from the NFL to college is apparent. So certainly you have your examples like like Jalen Ramsey or Sauce Gardner, although Soss Garner wasn't the top, on Stingley was drafted ahead of sauce, right? But often, or a decent amount of times, that first corner drafted

is not kind of the pro bowl player that you might hope for the top player at his position. What did you think about the Nacobi Dean, T.J. Edwards? Yeah, I mean, I certainly style of play is there. I think that's the best case scenario for the Eagles. I have a hard time figuring out what Dean is right now because he's been injured, but I was high on Dean when he came out of Georgia. I thought he was going to have a good year.

The last year, T.J. Edwards had demonstrated it a little bit more. Certainly, T.J. Edwards and I wrote about this in the past, D.E.L. has kind of tried to replace him each year. It's the opposite for Nogh. They're trying to put him in the lineup each year. But T.J. had established himself at the end of the 20, 2021 season, and then 2022, he really took off. And I think that if the Eagles can get that from Nicobi Dean, then it's huge for the future of the team because he's the linebacker you want to build around.

All right, a couple suggestions from for murder on Twitter to Frew Abbeyu. One is Jalen Carter. We talked about a little bit. We talked about the echoes of like where does Fletcher Cox come in there. But what about 2002 Javon Hargra? that seems a little bit lofty to me. Yeah, from a past rush production, from past rush production in particular, that's lofty. I think different types of players.

What about 2021 Hargrave? Oh, 2021 Hargrave. No, his is 22. I'm saying what about 2021? That's when he started to look like this guy is a real player. That's when I went to his hometown, 2021. Yeah, I think that's good too. Okay.

And then how about the setup of Tyler Steen as the third round pick in year two getting a starting job? and Matt Hennessey, the erstwhile veteran of versatility behind him, echoing Isaac Samaulo, Stefan Wisniewski from 2007. I think that's a really good one for a number of reasons. There's so many comparisons there. First off, Isaac S. Amalu was someone who early in his career, I know the sentiment inside the building is maybe he's better as like the sixth guy, as the guy who can kind of help you in a few different spots as opposed to being like the full-time starter.

Now, to Isaac's credit, he developed into that, but he was not ready for that in 2017. He was also, he wasn't a full-time guard when he was at Oregon State. Matt Hennessy was someone who had this, I'm sorry, Stefan Wisniewski was someone who had the center guard versatility. Was similarly. And was seen as more of a center. Was undersized to guard. Similar to Hennessy. I think Hennessy's viewed as more of a center.

But the Eagles really liked just the reliability that he had that, that, that he I mean, you did a great job. We weren't working with each other at the time, but I read all your stuff. You were kind of outlining the guard rotation, and the Eagles were doing everything they could. It was so funny. Midgame, him and Chance Warmac. But the Eagles were doing everything they could not to have Wisniewski as the guy. Yes.

Right? When I remember talking to players on the offensive line, and they just felt that sense of comfort when Wisniewski was in the game, like he knew what he was doing, right? So they started with, say, Amalu. Chance Warmac had like the draft pedigree. but eventually it was like you have Jason people well not Jason Peters all along eventually it started that yeah the start and and you had Kelsey on on one side it was give you someone who's like reliable who knows what he's doing out there and that's kind of what Wisniewski was at that point in his career

so if Hennessy can become that then yeah that's that's a really good comparison also whiz Penn State guy Hennessy Temple guy so I like that okay there you go I like the user submission of Mackay Bechtin as the hallibulavati vitae. Yeah, I mean, you don't want... Yeah, you don't want Milada to go down, but, you know, Beckton... That's what he's here to do, yeah. Exactly, yeah. Okay, that's a good one.

Yeah, I think better than Jamon Brown needs to be the hope. Well, yeah, I would hope so, adjusting his gloves in play. I think from a Hennessy standpoint, I am very curious to see, not just this week when we see practice on Thursday, but for the mandatory mini-camp when we see all three days, like is he practicing only at Red Guard or is he moving around and playing in center too?

Because if he's only at Red Guard over the five practices that we see, that would seem to indicate that it is a pretty, it's set up to be a pretty head-to-head battle with Tyler Steen. And then if they do the on-again, off-again thing in camp especially.

Right. Okay. Well, good episode, Zach. Good to be back in the saddle with you. Always fun. For some of the technical difficulties on the video front, but we'll get those hammered out. Back tomorrow at noon.

Thursday, we will see what time practices, availability that may move from noon, but we will let you know, and then back on noon on Friday. So happy to be back with Zach and Julia and everybody here at Ph.LY. We will talk to you tomorrow at noon. And as always, we love you.