PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | How do A.J. Brown and co. stack up against Darius Slay and the Philadelphia Eagles’ CBs?

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

Our preview series on the Eagles’ position groups continues ahead of training camp, with our focus turning to the guys on the outside. On offense, the Eagles are top-heavy with A.J. Brown and DeVonta Smith with an opening for someone to claim the No. 3 job. On defense, there’s strength in numbers with Darius Slay, Kelee Ringo and the two top rookies.Join Zach Berman and Bo Wulf for another chop session. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody. And welcome to the PHAY Eagles podcast on a Wednesday, high noon, Bo Wolf. Zach Berman here to talk about the Philadelphia Eagles ahead of training camp, which will begin in earnest with a practice a week from today. We're going to talk about the wide receivers and the cornerbacks. Zach, how you doing? Doing great. Excited for the show. Great to see you on the screen.

Look forward to seeing you in person tomorrow. Hope everyone's staying cool out there. and you're enjoying... How about that weather, huh? Yeah, that's a line I've never heard before, right? But this is a fun show because, well, you'll get into the topics, but it's like two positions with contrasting storylines. Yes, they're builds.

You've got the top heavy group at wide receiver, the star-laden but potentially shallow group versus the newly deep group at cornerback, which all of a sudden seems to have more talent, than it has had in a very long time, but you wonder who's going to step to the forefront and lead that group. Back in the, as the commenters are saying,

in front of the mystery trapezoid door, made the long journey from Portland, Maine, to Philadelphia yesterday, perilous journey. But you know what? Do you feel, Zach, when you come off vacation, do you feel like you are able to let things that might have otherwise riled you up sort of just go off like the ducks back and just not be a big deal?

I try to take that perspective around, you know, not just coming off of vacation. But no, you are, you know, I feel frankly when I come off vacation, like I'm ready to get rolling, right? Like you had a chance to catch your breath, but you don't want someone getting ahead of you when you were gone. So you're ready to get rolling. That is not how I feel, but I do feel more relaxed. I'll tell you what happened. Did you stop for pizza, by the way? Did you stop in New Hayes?

for pizza? Did we stop for for pizza in New Haven? Zach, this was a like a, like, uh, we left at like two 30. Okay. We're, first of all, you don't go through New Haven. You, you sneak around New Haven. Oh, you don't go down 95? You don't go down 95. That would be a wrong way to go. But, uh, we're not at, I'm not looking to add time to, uh, the trip, which already got us home near 11 o'clock. You think I want to, you don't think I want to add an hour. stop for pizza? For Frank Pepe's pizza, absolutely. I would drive the New Haven just for that pizza. Well, I'll tell you why you might not want to introduce the white clam pizza into the variables

of this car ride, Zach, because my daughter Jane, lovely, lovely person, light of our lives, not the strongest stomach as it comes to car rockets. So we, a little bit out of practice, having been away from the kids, we forgot to give her the dramamine until like we were just getting in the car. Like, you know, if we had done it at lunch ahead of time, we might have got it in. But instead, we were getting her to try to take the dramamine right as we were pulling out from their grandparents' house. and no less than I would say 15 seconds into the drive

as she was taking the germamine, the germamine and some food came back up. So there you go. That was the early. But you know what? That's not. That's not. Clamp pizza you don't need.

Not such a big deal. You know, we just, we pull right back into the driveway, clean it up. Not a big deal. It was more about like trying to force the pill down. It didn't work very well. Then when we were outside New York,

approaching the GW bridge, probably about 15 minutes away, the bigger puke came out, the big one. And so that was the one that we were worried about. We did have a towel in hand, so it got handled about as good as it could go. So for a two-puk drive, really did not deter us too much.

And then we had a big lightning storm on the drive down. No big deal. Still feeling good. Nothing can take us down after that big. vacation. Then we come into the house and turns out the fridge is dead. The fridge needs to be replaced completely dead. So looking for the comments. If you have any suggestions on a new refrigerator, you know, we're in the market. So tell us, tell me if you've got any tips, what I should be looking for, what I should avoid. Still feeling good. Nothing can bring me down, Zach.

Sorry to hear this. Did you have an empty refrigerator or was there food in there that went spoiled? There was food in there. I mean, not a ton of food because we knew that we were going away, but there was some food in there. Yeah. Okay. Well, good luck, refrigerator shopping. Thanks.

I plan to do it this afternoon. Oh, nice. Okay. And how are the kids on the drive other than the slight stomach or the? Delightful. No complaints. I mean, they're asking, are we in Pennsylvania yet? you know, 10 minutes into the drive and every 15 minutes or so thereafter, but that's okay.

That's to be expected. Good. What's the entertainment of choice? Are you listening to music? You're listening to PODs. Well, you start off. There's a really good dinosaur song playlist on Spotify that we enjoy. So you get that for about an hour.

Then we're doing some dinosaur train audio stories on the Pina app, which I can recommend. then there's a little bit of watching time, then there's just a conversation, there's Casey's doing some hot loops, Jane's doing some coloring. It's, we got it all going on. Well, I'm glad you're back. I'm glad everything went well. I'm good luck with the refrigerator. I'm still kind of like, I didn't think it's a crazy question to ask if you stopped for pizza in New Haven. You spoke about it as if I knew you drive around New Haven. I don't drive to. Well, yeah, but the fact that we're leaving already at 2.30 in the afternoon, which you did know. I mean, that's dinner, though. It doesn't really make. That's dinner. That's what, New Haven's four hours from Portland, right?

Yeah, so you would like us to delay that drive even longer. You have to eat? Did you eat dinner? Actually, we didn't really eat dinner. Okay. That's the question. Typically, one eats dinner, right? I don't think that's a, that's a polarizing. go. I mean, I'm not, I'm not upset about, listen, this is a new bow. I don't get upset. I'm coming off vacation. I'm not angry about this. I'm just saying that it's an ill-informed suggestion. That's all. Question for the chat. How long do you think the new bow lasts? Yeah. I mean, I think I can make it to the end of the week. Okay. All right, good. I hope so.

Yeah, I'm all good, baby. I'm going to put on my sunglasses once my new shady rays get delivered. All right, Zach. Let's, uh, would you like to start? start with the wide receivers or the cornerbacks. Let's start with the wide receivers. Okay. Let's start with the wide receivers. And I do think that, you know, these two positions, we have probably talked about these two positions about as much as any other

positions over the course of the past couple months. So a lot of this is going to be sort of a refresh. But there's no doubt that we know that this wide receiver group is, as we said, star heavy, right? And I don't know or don't think that the Eagles are necessarily. necessarily done here because they have AJ Brown and Devante Smith. If you want to flash up the depth chart, it seems right now like Paris Campbell is probably the frontrunner to be wide receiver three. Elsewhere in the slot, you have Britton Covey and Ania Smith, the fifth round pick on the

outside. Once you look at these guys on the outside, depth chart wise, it does sort of become clear how much they're missing somebody. And you've got Johnny Wilson, who I thought had a pretty good spring. We'll see how he does in training camp. But then after that, Joseph and Gata, Jacob Harris, John Ross, who we know was spending time with his son. That's a very admirable thing. Chiquan Davis and Austin Watkins Jr., who actually thought had a bit of a flash in the spring. But I know you think this group looks better, Zach, without Devante Parker. But it does look like it could use a Devante Parker type. Yeah, I agree with you there. I think that's a fair statement. I think an experienced outside receiver would benefit the group, right?

That's what Devante Parker was going to provide you. We'll see how Johnny Wilson looks. We'll see if they can unearth something in Joseph Van Gata, Shaq Davis, right? They have a lot of big guys. But I do think adding a veteran wide receiver, similar to how we talked about with the defensive tackles yesterday, I think someone who can play on the outside a potential, I don't say replacement because you never replace A.J. Brown. But if A.J. Brown were to go down, someone who could fill that role in the offense in terms of body type, I think would be a good direction for the Eagles to look if they seek to add somebody.

Remember going to 2020, the 2020 season, of course. It always comes back to 2020. So it's still unfair to the Eagles. We in the Eagles Media Corps spent a lot of time talking about how how shallow the edge rushing group was. I don't know if you remember this, of course. Oh, I do. The summer up too, though. And the pushback came from the Eagles organization that there's no other place in the NFL where teams would be beaten up for who their, you know, defensive end three or their edge four is, right?

Like, doesn't that speak to how good this roster is and how unfair the media? Corps is. Yeah, I know those conversations well. How do you feel about the general tenor about the Eagles wide receiver core? Is it unfair that we seem to be haranguing how shallow they are after A.J. Brown and Devante Smith, because as you and I did the exercise with ranking the weapons across the league, this is a top three, top five at worst weapon group on paper, A.J. Brown and Devonte Smith, who wouldn't want to have that group at the top?

But is it fair that we are spending so much time focusing it on who after that? Well, no, I don't think it's unfair. So, yes, I do think it's it's fair. And I think every conversation about the depth that wide receiver acknowledges just how elite they are at the top. And frankly, I would rather have two elite guys in questions from three to six than have questions one to two and have like great depth. Right. So, yeah, I would rather the position the Eagles are in. But as I've stated on the show a number of times throughout the all season, and I stand by this, they've been remarkably lucky.

Because there is luck involved with injuries, right? They've been remarkably lucky that A.J. Brown and Devante Smith have stayed healthy. A.J. Brown has not missed a regular season game since coming to Philadelphia. He missed the playoff game last year. That was the first game he missed. Devante Smith missed the week 18 game last year. That was the first game he missed since coming to Philadelphia. We saw in week 18 how the offense looks without Devante and AJ.

We saw in the playoffs the way the offense looks without AJ. So if one of these guys were to go down, which is certainly plausible. Injuries happen all the time in the NFL, right? Then who is your depth behind them? In addition to that, your base offense is three receivers. Now you can look at Paris Campbell and you can say Paris Campbell, has been productive, has draft pedigree. But you can also say Paris Campbell was not productive last year on a team that needed help at wide receivers,

has been injury prone. You look at what you paid him. He's had one productive seat. Yeah, exactly. He's a lottery ticket almost by definition. You're paying more for the lottery ticket than the John Ross lottery ticket, but he is a lottery ticket. So you need three no matter what. And I respect Nick Siriani's answer that you can't just look at it as the third wide receiver.

You have to look at it as the fifth offensive weapon. But you're going to play 11 personnel. You need to feel confident in your third receiver on the field. Think about how much conversation there's been about Quez Watkins in the past, right? I don't know if they upgraded from Quez Watkins this offseason. Okay, that's the first part. And then like I said, if AJ or Devante goes down, who is available to you? And look, the Eagles spent significant draft capital to acquire A.J. Brown.

They spent a draft pick and traded up to get Devante Smith, right? But we talked in the last two drafts. How there were opportunities in day two and day three to add a wide receiver. Eagles have not done that, did not do it. Now, they added two guys on day three this year. If one materializes, that's great. You saw, though, John Hightower, Quez Watkins, fifth round pick, sixth round pick, right? and neither one of them really gave you what you needed in 2022 as rookies.

You outlined real well in our post-draft shows how ambitious it is to expect a day three wide receiver to come in and be a meaningful contributor for you. So, no, I don't think it's unfair, but any conversation you have about it has to acknowledge what you said, that they are the envy of the league as far as they're top two. Yeah, and there's no doubt that this is a two-pronged discussion if we're talking about the things that you're worried about. One is, let's say everybody stays healthy. As you like to say, those balls should be thrown to AJ Brown and Devonte Smith and Dallas got it, right? They should take the overwhelming share of targets. I do think that they could, even if those guys are healthy, they could use a little bit more from whoever that fourth option.

in the passing game is. And listen, as you said, they're going to be in 11 personnel a lot. That guy's going to be on the field. Jalen Hertz sometimes, even if they're open, doesn't throw to them. And I think that that is a problem with the offense in general.

And we're just talking about taking this offense from last year. They were 10th in DVOA. That was not good enough for them, given the talent, the way that this team is built, they need to be top three, top five in offense if they're going to be serious contenders. I think they could use a little bit more there.

But if we're, talking about lottery tickets of Paris Campbell and Johnny Wilson and Ania Smith and even Britain Covey and even John Ross, I think there is a chance, a reasonable chance that one of those five guys can do enough as wide receiver three. I think that that's reasonable. The bigger problem is what happens if one of those guys at the top goes down, as you said. And I think that the way that the Eagles think about this, to some degree, if this injury is a significant injury, and it happens early in the season. Well, they've got that, you know,

that third round pick that they acquired this year. All of a sudden they can flip that and bring in somebody now. Maybe that's Golden Tate and it's disappointing, but like that's that is a chip that they have now. But obviously that's not going to be good enough if an injury happens in the second half of the season. And that's where I do think that they are missing somebody. And yes, is it unfair to say like,

of course no team in the league has a wide receiver three who's going to be a reasonable, facsimile of AJ Brown. That's like that's sort of possible. But I am surprised, given the way that they value the position, that this is the roster that they are entering the season with at wide receiver. And it's why I don't think that they are necessarily done here. And I would add to that, they shows you with their actions, right?

They signed Devante Parker early in for now. I know they didn't give any type of financial, like, they didn't pay much for them. it was basically a free signing, right? And yet. And yet. Some of us were picketing the Novicar complex with burning torches and saying, get this guy out of here. They signed a player with 88 career starts for a reason, really in free agency, because they did want that type of veteran assurance. They did not sign him with the expectation that he would retire during the spring, right?

they signed him with the expectation of seeing him in training camp. So it would be fun if they signed him with the expectation. Yeah. So I think. And by the way, you go back to last year, the Eagles were having conversations with Julio Jones as far back as training camp, right? So like, Hey man, remember how good you used to be?

No, but my point is, like they're, if you watch with their actions, they know that they can use some, some veteran help at this position. It would not surprise me if they added someone. And that's why Howie always tells you that the calendar is fluid, right? Your roster on July 17th, not necessarily your roster on August 17th. They went to camp last year with questions at depth at linebacker, veterans in particular, right?

And then they signed Miles Jack and Zach Cunningham sent for the same day. And they see what they have. One of them is on the team. It would not surprise me if, I mean, I'm not saying they're going to go out and sign Michael Thomas, but if there's a name signing at that position for the reason we mentioned, because maybe it's not a guy you need to see on July 25th, but you want to know August 5th, August 13th, he's there. Yeah, I actually think this is a little different than the defensive tackle discussion from yesterday

because I think they need a defensive tackle in the building to like take some snaps over the to the next couple weeks. I think they need to add a guy soon. Whereas with this group, I think it's reasonable to say, let's see how Ania Smith and Johnny Wilson do at the start of camp. Let's see how these guys are looking. And then we can reevaluate how dire the need is. You know, if John Ross has his legs back, maybe all of a sudden we can take the temperature down a little bit on how dire the need is. Yeah. And in NIA, I mean, if we talk at this position, like players were fascinated to watch this summer. Yeah, tell me. Who's the time?

up your list. Well, I don't have these like grand illusions of John Ross, right? Good man was with his son. I don't have any of these grand illusions of him. But I do know that there is a like there is speed there that's hard to find, like rare speed. And so you tend to look for a trait sometimes that is unique. And that's a unique trait. The same way we talk about how Johnny Wilson's size is a unique trait, right? So I'm curious to see if he's certainly not old by football standards. So we'll see what he has. I want to see if Paris Campbell has juice.

Sometimes, like, you know, you sign a guy with injury history, which with draft pedigree, I think of like Ruben Randall, not to just keep bringing guys who came from the Giants. But you could tell that he just, he did not have it anymore, right? And the Eagles saw that pretty quickly. So we'll see what they have in Paris Campbell this summer. But the player who going into the spring, I wanted to see more of, and I understand injury factored into this.

But Anaya Smith, he was a player that they liked in the draft, that they targeted going into the draft, that they spent, I mean, they didn't spend significant draft capital on him. But he was a player that they brought in for a pre-draft visit, right? Like there was, this is someone who they valued more than the league did. And when they drafted him, one thing that I said is there's nothing like elite about his profile. Athletically, production, age, there's nothing there that says like you need to have this. So this was pure evaluation that they saw.

So I want to see if there is juice there from him. Yeah. And as you said, for those of you who are just, you know, catching up on how things have gone. Anaya Smith did not play much in the spring because he had an injury, I think an ankle or a foot injury that he had suffered in the pre-draft process

just at the very end of the spring was he on the field in team drills. Didn't flash a ton. And those were situations where you would hope that a guy who's build, the way that he has talked about is that he's going to be an explosive athlete on the field. Didn't look the part on those scant reps,

but that's okay. We'll see how he does in training camp. I think for me, Johnny Wilson is the interesting one. And I was a little bit of a Johnny Wilson skeptic as a draft pick just because a guy that size, you know, 6-7, 235, who ran pretty fast. Like, why is he going in the sixth round? Why wasn't he a little bit more productive in college? And he wasn't totally unproductive.

His junior year, almost 900 yards receiving. So there was some production there. It was more about like what does the rest of the league know about if this guy is special. why is he going in the sixth round? But I did like what I saw from him in the spring. There's a flashbulb memory of the play he made towards the very end of spring camp going up and over. I think it was Isaiah Rogers along the sideline.

Very nice play. And the kind of like the play that you dream about when you draft a player like this, the kind of play that you think that you hope that he can make, that was impressive. So I'd like to see if he can continue that. He's probably the one who I'm most interested to see over the next couple weeks.

but you know if there's also an opportunity for a you know a D'Andre Carter type a guy at the bottom of the roster one of these one of these veterans who have been around the league to to flash and and maybe earn a roster spot is Austin Watkins that guy for you I don't know if he's going to be that guy but no what I'm saying I had a couple a little a little uh sparks of oh I like the way he moves sparks Now, there was a question in the mailbag last Wednesday, midweek mailbag, great alliteration, that the question was, who's Bose Camp Crush going to be? And like, what qualifies for? Yeah. So I am curious to see if any of these wide receivers, their sparks come training camp with them. There you go. The other thing that I wanted to talk about with just the wide receiver three, big picture conversation, is the Jailen

of it versus the Kellynne Moore of it, right? So let's take away the AJ Brown and Devante Smith. What did Jalen Hertz's target disparity look like in 2021 when they had Devante Smith? The number two wide receiver was Quetz Watkins. Jalen Rager was wide receiver three and finished with 33 catches for 299 yards. That was basically the top three receivers, including Dallas Goddard accounted for 67% of the receiving yards. It went to 78% in 2022 and 77% in 2023.

So AJ Brown's edition did make a difference there, but it was still pretty top heavy. It was similar for Jalen Hertz in his Oklahoma year, where it was C.D. Lamb and who am I forgetting? But there was a clear top two. And then it went all the way down to Lee Morris, your boy, Lee Morris, who had about 14% of the receiving yards. Then you went all the way back to his Alabama year,

the second year as a starter. That was the one time when there was a clear top in Calvin Ridley, and then it was distributed much more evenly among the younger guys. Whereas with Kellyn Moore, I think the ideal version of the Kellynmore offense as a stray tab on my tab, so started making noise. Where is this noise coming from? Oh, no. While you're figuring that out, I have a quick point that I want to make regarding

Kellemore Nick Siriani and the usage of the wide receivers? It's sports reference.com. Oh, okay. No, I'll let you finish your point now that you found the straight thing. Well, I think the ideal version of the Kellymour offense, right? So last year in Los Angeles with the Chargers, they had a bunch of injuries, they still finished, you know, 15th in offensive DVOA. 14th or 16th in offensive DVA 15th in passing DVA Dallas the year before they were 14th

in offensive DVA 11th in passing DVA but 2021 that's the that's like the year the proof of concept year with with Kellan Moore right they were fourth in offense fourth in passing and that year if you're just talking about like evening things out they did do a very good job of that it was cd lamb and amari cooper at the top but then you also had cedric wilson with 602 receiving yards and Michael Gallup with almost 450 receiving yards. So that was like the really best version of the Kellymour offense, and there was a little bit more of a spreading around. And so I don't know if there is a tension is not the right word, but I don't know if there

is a difference in the way that Jalen Hertz usually operates an offense and the way that Kellyn Moore wants one operated. Obviously, we know that Jailen Hertz doesn't throw the ball over the middle of the field a ton compared to the rest of the league. but I think that Kellan Moore probably would love to have, and of course he would, every offensive coordinator would, but would love to have a third wide receiver who can be a real part of the offense. That's a good point. Regarding Kellyn Moore, too, to kind of build on that.

One thing I'm curious to see is where these wide receivers are used. If you look at AJ Brown, for instance, the year before the Eagles acquired him from Tennessee, he played his highest percentage of snaps in the slot. He played 33.7% of his snaps in the slot. That was 25.7% less, I'm sorry, in 2022 with Eagles, 23.9% last year. Devante Smith took a career high 30.8% of the snaps in the slot last year. When you look at the success that Kellynne Moore's had with C.D. Lamb playing on the inside

with last year, Keenan Allen playing. on the inside. I am curious to see if they use these receivers. And so you, that third receiver, you're not necessarily just thinking about him as a slot receiver. Maybe it is Johnny Wilson on the outside. And you have Devonte and AJ on the inside taking advantage of a matchup, mismatch. In other words, Zach, you might say that the Eagles wide receiver core could use a little bit of better help because there it is. This show, Zach, the PHLY Zach Berman show is sponsored by better help. When life goes fast, just like the off season has,

all of a sudden we're at training camp. It's important to take a moment to celebrate your wins and make adjustments for the rest of the year. Well, therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next sixth months. Like, I don't know, let's go win a Super Bowl. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try.

It is entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Take a moment. Visit betterhelp.com slash p.hLY today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash p.hLY. I was driving around the other day and I think on the drive,

I passed three different True Mark financial credit unions. And the reason I did is because this is a Philly company that's headquartered in Fort Washington. You know you're getting local. You're getting Philly. And that's what jumps out about True Mark. Something else that jumps out about True Mark is their home equity line of credit. Their home equity line of credit allows homeowners to borrow against home equity with variable interest rates. Preserve your savings and get access to funds as needed for big renovations, education expenses, or emergencies.

You can also save up for limited edition merchandise to use Truemark financials budgeting tool to save for special purchases like limited edition merchandise, regular contributions accumulate over time to reach savings goals effectively. Transferring as little as $5 a week gives you $260 more than enough for a Kelly Green jersey. TrueMark Financial is federally insured by the NCAA and is an equal opportunity lender for more information to visit trumark.com slash p.hly. All right, Zach, let's talk cornerbacks, which we have talked at length this offseason as we flash up the depth chart here. Obviously, you've got Darius Slay as entrenched as one starter. And then the three-headed, four-headed competition between Keeley Ringo, Quinion Mitchell, the rookie first round pick, Isaiah Rogers, yeah boy, and maybe even Cooper DeGine involved there. And obviously, Avanti's, Avanti Maddox, penciled in as a slot right now.

but I think maybe the odds on favorite is that it will be Cooper DeGine eventually. You've also got Tyler Hall, Zach McPherson, and Mario Goodrich in the slot. And also on the outside, Josh Job, Eli Ricks, Sean Stevens, Perry Nickerson. And if you want to get freaky, James Bradbury is still here, even if he is potentially playing safety. Yeah, so then I will chime in here. I didn't know if he had a question there. My overall view on the corners here is there's more depth at this spot than they've had in my time covering the team. That said, when you're looking at like the true roster competitions, the true depth chart competitions,

the true starting competitions this summer, Corner is one of them. We don't know who that week one starter on the outside is going to be. My guess going in the camp is, I don't want to say it's going to be stacked for Quignan Mitchell, but that Quigioninichael is going to have the opportunity to win the job. I think there's going to be a day, let's say, let's set the over-under for August 3rd. Okay. August 3rd, there's going to be a day when Quinyon Mitchell starts like taking the majority to snaps with the first team. And or actually, maybe it's after the first preseason game.

So let's push that back a little bit longer because sometimes like, you know, you know, we saw it on film. And they say we're just rolling guys in and out, but it gets to the point where it's pretty clear. he's the guy they're going with with Quinyan Mitchell when you're drafting the top corner in the draft and by definition like you know he was their top cornerback there was no one else they could take over him the the the age profile the is is such that you know you're expecting him to step in right away and contribute you look at the production that he had in college with you know he he've had what 18 past breakups last season, number two in college football.

He's gotten his hands on, you know, he has ball skills, he has coverage skills. He ran really well. He answered the bell at the senior bowl. You know, you were there to see it. So I'm expecting, I think it would be a disappointment if Coyneye Mitchell doesn't come out of training camp

as the starter. And the only reason I would see for him not being the starter is if Keeley Ringo is so good that they're like, man, Keithley has to start. But I think if anything's close to even, it's going to be Quignan. I don't know that I agree

that it would be a bad sign necessarily. I think that this is the exception that proves the rule of a good problem to have, usually they're lying. I think this actually is a good problem to have. I think you can let Kili Ringo

and Quinyan Mitchell and potentially Isaiah Rogers. So I do think realistically it should be a two-headed battle. Yeah. I think you can let these guys settle it on the field. I love a good settling it on the field competition, yes. No, you don't.

You want to hand the reins over to Quignan Mitchell. You like draft pedigree, give him the job. Well, I mean, Kili Ringo is someone who you go back and you read my stuff from 2023. Yeah, you can take credit for every single player on the roster. That's fine. Not every single one, not to Monti Parker. That's for sure.

I don't know. I think, you know, you. You know, it's not like they traded up for Quigionan Mitchell. He fell to them. Yes, they chose to take him as the top corner of the draft over Terry and Arnold and, you know, potentially some options at offensive line. And I think Cooper DeGine would have been a potential pick there as well. But I don't think that it's a situation right now where he needs to be the starter week one or it's a disappointment.

I think really like the Quinyan Mitchell pick is. big picture more about he needs to be the one to start when Darius Lay is gone. That's fair. He needs to be the eventual replacement for Darius Slay. I think if he is not ready right away, it would be a little bit disappointing. I mean, this is a guy, he's a senior. You know, he played four years in college. Yes, it was at Toledo, but you would expect that the top corner of the draft who's a senior should be ready to start week one.

But if Keele Ringo is that good or if Isaiah Rogers is that good, I don't think that it's it's not like Nolan Smith didn't get on the field at all as a rookie when there's a rotation there. I think corner is a spot where, as we saw last year, these guys are probably all going to play at some point. I don't think the clock starts week one for him. Look, you made it a compelling point, and I agree. And I'm going to amend what I said.

I think it would be a disappointment if it's not Quina and Mitchell or Kiliy Ringo. Like, I think if Isaiah Rogers beats them out, Isaiah Rogers, look, I liked what I saw from. And I think there's definitely talent there. But if you have a player you spent a third round pick on, and you have a player you spend a first round pick on, you know, and the third round pick is entering, I know he's a fourth round pick betrayed a third for him.

He's entering year two, right? Quinion Mitchell, like I said, he's a four-year guy. One of those should win the job over Isaiah Rogers. I think that's fair. And I think it would be, you know, Isaiah Rogers was awesome in the spring. We'll see if you can do it again in the summer. And if he's just far and away the best guy on the field, that's one thing. But I think there is a, it would be on your radar a little bit if it was like, okay,

crusty old Vic Fangio is leaning on the veteran instead of playing the young guys. And all of a sudden we get into this same cycle that we've got. gotten into over the past couple years. And it's the same tension we had between Howie Roseman and Nick Siriani's answers to this question at the combine about at some point, don't you need to let the young guys play? And how he's saying, yes, we had this conversation.

That is a thing. And Nick saying, no, we've got to do whatever we can do to win on Sundays. What jumps out to you about Keel Ringo from watching him during the spring, seeing him last summer, studying him coming out of Georgia? I think he's a better athlete than he looked like on. taped to me as a college prospect.

You know, there was the, talking about his stiff hips, right? And, you know, being able to turn. And I thought he, I thought he looked good as a rookie. He had a very up and down summer. And I thought that he was probably a little bit unfairly maligned because he had some flashes. And, you know, Eli Ricks was making some plays in the training camp in the preseason games.

But, you know, he was a very young player. He was the youngest player on the roster last year, as you said. I think we have lost Zach, but that's okay. I think that what I saw from him in the spring, being able to move and change direction with AJ Brown, and even though AJ Brown would come down with contested catches, it was still like Keilloringo was right there with him. I thought that that was pretty impressive. And so while we wait for Zach to come back, I will now tell you about our other friends who are helping to sponsor this episode. and it starts with our old friends at Miller Light.

Because, listen, times change. Miller Light has been around since longer than Keeley-Ringo has been alive. And that entire time we've been having this argument, great taste, less filling, less filling, great taste. What's better? It doesn't matter because with Miller Light, you don't have to choose. A lot has changed over the years. But one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. Another thing that hasn't changed is that it remains less filling.

So what is the best thing about the original light beer? Well, Miller Light sparked this debate in 1975, and we still haven't settled it. What do you look for in a great beer? Me? Taste, number one. But you know what's a nice little positive that Miller Lights bring into the table? When you're sucking them back? 96 calories. You can't do better than that.

A light beer that tastes like beer and is not going to give you that big old beer gut. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. A light beer that tastes like beer, less filling, and only 96 calories, the original light beer, since 1975. You don't have to choose what's best. Miller Light has great taste and is less filling, tastes like Miller Time. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit MillerLight.com slash p.hly birds, or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Thompson, 96 calories per 12 ounces, fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer. And I can tell you about our friends at game time because, Zach, I know you have a nice story about going to Cambignards over the weekend. How to go. Yeah, so, wait, wait, can you hear me okay here? We can hear you. We can see you. We can smell you. All right, good.

My power just went out at home here. Oh, don't worry about your. fridge. Actually, I'm very worried about my fridge now that you say it. My first thought was the show, but yeah, I hope the power comes back quickly. I'm on over. Let me just, let me just catch it up here. Game time is an authorized ticket marketplace of Major League Baseball, which makes

getting tickets faster and easier. And prices on the GameTime app actually go down the closer. It gets to first pitch with killer last minute deals all in prices, views from your seat and their lowest price guarantee. Game time takes the guesswork out of buying. buying MLB tickets, which is exactly what you did when you took Reed to Campanillo. Yes. Yes. And it was a great time and I got good deal on tickets. Not last minute, but I used the image in the seat view, the seat view image as a big help there. Well, if you do wait

until the last minute, you get to sometimes save up to 60% off when you're buying last minute tickets. You've also got the flash deals, the zone deals, the all in pricing, and the lowest price guarantee, wherein GameTime will credit you 110% of the difference if you find the same seats for cheaper at a competitor. So take the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets with GameTime, download the GameTime app, create an account and use code PHLY for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code PHLY for $20 off.

Download GameTime today, last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right, Zach, tell me cornerback why. aside from the guys at the top, who are you most excited to see? We haven't even talked about Cooper DeGine yet. Yeah. Yeah, Cooper DeGine is someone who I'm particularly excited to see. And the reason that I say that is, obviously, the versatility,

I think he can help in a handful of different ways. I liked him a lot coming out of the draft. I think he's going to have a day one role for the Eagles. I expect him to win the starting slot job. So him and Ringo are the two guys that, like, in particular, outside. of a Mitchell, I'm eager to see. Look, I'm looking forward to watching James Bradbury this summer.

I want to see if there's anything there. I want to see if they can potentially trade him, right? How this experiment goes. I'm curious to see that. As far as the down the depth chart guys, no one there particularly jumps out to me. Although Eli Ricks, I want to see if there's development year two. He didn't really take a huge step this spring. Now we only saw, what, five practices this spring.

We didn't get a lot of time to see it. But we talked about Eli Ricks as a potential trade target because he's someone who last summer really jumped out. He had that pick six against the Ravens in the first preseason game, earns a spot on the 53 Madden Out roster. But now they've drafted two guys in the first and second round. They add Isaiah Rogers, right? So what is Eli Ricks' role on the team?

But you talk about like Keely Ringo? Eli Ricks was ahead of Keely Ringo last year. Eli Riggs outplayed Keely Ringo during training camp last year. And from a tools perspective, he has the tools that you look for. But he did not outplay him when they played during the regular season, right? And so Keel Ringo has taken over that jockey, right? And maybe is a good reminder of how we can sometimes overvalue what we see in the summer. That said, I think Eli Ricks on another team would be an interesting prospect.

And I do think that he is probably the most likely guy. here to get traded. You know, Josh Job is a player who brings value on special teams, but has probably shown at this point that he's going to leave you wanting if he's called upon on defense. So this is another player like Patrick Johnson, where maybe we'll find out if the new kickoff rules change the roster math at all for the Eagles in terms of who they want to carry,

where they want to value things. I think Tyler Hall is an interesting player in a player who has played in the league and is a sort of generally reliable. slot corner. I think he's probably here as Avanti Maddox insurance, not as a guy who can start. And I do think that Avanti Maddox, I mean, I agree with you, knowing that Vic Fangio loved Cooper DeGine in the pre-draft process. I imagine he has a role envisioned for Cooper DeGine. I think he probably wants him on the field. I wouldn't be surprised if Cooper DeGine is the week one starter in the nickel. However, I think if Avanti Maddox is healthy, I think he may be

that guy. And this is one where maybe you're tilting towards veteran over rookie at the expense of the long-term view. But the problem with Devante Maddox is not that he's bad. The problem is he can't stay healthy.

And so, as I've said, if he makes it through training camp healthy, I think he will be on the team. And he brings that corner nickel safety versatility. And I think he's a reliable player. I just think the question with him is all about can he stay healthy. That's why he didn't, you know, he took that visit to New Orleans, didn't sign, ends up coming back to the Eagles after they cut him. But I don't think that, I don't think

they're going to cut a healthy ofante Maddox. If free agency was after the draft, do you think they would have signed Avanti Maddox? Yeah, I do. Okay. So you think they, they would, they if it put out the same way. I mean, they released him. They let him survey the league and then they signed him to an extremely reasonable deal. No, but I'm saying if they knew they were going to be able to get Quinyan Mitchell and Cooper DeGine. Yeah, I do. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. So we'll think I mean, I think they like the player. They just, they know that he's injured. Broome. Yeah. Sure. All right.

That's a good point there. What do you make of the Josh Job, Zach McPherson group, like guys who've been here have been on the roster, but the numbers are a lot different this summer than in past years? Yeah. I think it's really just a, it's a special teams thing. I think for Job especially, it's a special teams thing. I like Zach McPherson as a guy.

I've always enjoyed talking to him. I think I would be pretty blown away if he makes this roster. Yeah, me too there. And then other than that, like Sean Stevens is a guy you would pencil in. I don't have my notes up here, but Sean Stevens is a guy you would pencil in for practice squad. He won a tryout job, but I don't think he's someone who's going to be pushing for a roster spot. Yes, and then Perry Nickerson, of course, I mean, what a call by me. What a call by you.

Try a player one day, and they're going to sign this guy, and quickly they do. Yeah, so I think it is an interesting group. Do you think that we will see James Bradbury play any corner this summer? Or do you think if he plays, it will only be at safety? Oh, I think we'll see him play corner this summer. Yeah, I do. I think they're going to take a look at him. Where?

corner. But like with the twos? Oh, you know, that's what I mean like what yeah. Yeah, let's say the twos and maybe like mixing in. Look, they're they're paying and we've talked about this. They're paying him no matter what. So there is a I think they're going to see if he can provide any type of contribution. They're going to hope that there's an injury somewhere else and they can trade him. Just just take his salary and we'll take a seventh round pick back. Right. Right. Right. I think that that's going to be the approach. But I don't think it's going to be James Bradbury hurts his hamstring. And then he's just sitting on ice until they cut him.

Right. I think that they are going to take a look at him. They can't cut him if he's injured. And they've got to put him on IR and pay it. That's true too. Yeah. No, but I'm saying like just just just carrying him until cut down day. I don't think that's the case.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We'll see. And listen, we're going to get a lot of good one-on-ones from this group against, you know, AJ Brown and Devante Smith and even Austin Watkins Jr. We've, throughout the spring, throughout the offseason, we've discussed the potential of trading a corner.

Do you think this is a realistic thing that they'll try to, outside of Bradbury from kind of perspective? Like from the good old-fashioned hockey trade, our guy for your guy, do you think they're going to try to do that? Yeah. I think it's extremely realistic. I think it's probably the most likely place from which they can deal. and I think it's, I think it would be Eli Ricks for a defensive tackle or a wide receiver.

I think that that would be my expectation or a linebacker. Or like an extra pick and then you trade a pick for a player, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's more likely that it would be a player for player deal. Okay. If we're talking Eli Ricks, then they're getting like a future seventh round pick or something like that. Do you think if Isaiah Rogers looks good early in the summer in the preseason, teams get more

film on him. They see he's back. They, you know, pro-scouting departments are always minding tweets and training camp stories to try to get nuggets. Do you think if that occurs that they would consider flipping Isaiah Rogers? It's almost like found money.

Absolutely. I think they would definitely consider it. Especially if Ringo and Quinn and Mitchell are looking good. Now, the guy we haven't even talked about, Zach, is Darius Slay. And he's the

screenshot today or the thumbnail today. Right. We haven't talked about them for a second. And, you know, Darius Slay is 30 million years old. He's almost as old as Sean Stevens. But, hold on my. Yeah, Sean Stevens got to mention before Darius Lay. What was I thinking there?

He's 33 years. I was thrown off by the hour. The list of corners in the league last year who started a lot of games and they were 33 years old is basically nobody. Right? It's Patrick Peterson. and Darius Slay missed five games last year. I think that this is, it's like the inverse of the wide receiver situation, right?

They don't necessarily need him to be as good as he was. And if he is, all the better. But they now have more depth behind him. So like if Darius Slay is 2022 Darius Slay, this defense has a chance to be really, really good. If he's not, then it's a second. dairy that's growing, but I think that they're also not in terrible shape. Are you concerned about Slet?

In what sense? For the reason you mentioned, this is a position where you don't just gradually climb. I don't have super high expectations for Darius Slay this year. He's 33 years old. Yeah. But like, corner in particular, in my experience, is not a position where it's a slow decline. It's a position where it's you drop off quickly, right? because of the value of speed at that position, right?

So, yeah, like, is this group mediocre if Slay is mediocre? I think it's a very high variance group. Okay. I think, you know, Darius Slai could be pro-ball caliber. He could be totally cooked. And if he is totally cooked, you know, they could still be okay if Keeley Ringo and Quinion Mitchell and Cooper Degine are all ready to play. Or they could be extremely inexperienced and run around like chickens with their head.

Keds cut off. I think that this group, while very deep and it looks good on paper, I think you could tell me it's going to be a top five group in the league. You could tell me it's going to be a bottom five group in the league. I don't think either one is insane. You think bottom five is on the table. You think that's a plausible outcome here. It's possible if you're playing all the young guys. It's unlikely, but just the quarterback group.

Yeah, I mean, rookie, your boy, Emmanuel Forbes, where was he last year? Oh, yeah. That was when I got wrong, but we'll see. Time could tell there. Okay. I have a couple more vacation content notes for you, Zach. Yeah, I saw your tweet. I didn't know what you're going with the Redeemer and 49ers reference.

Let's hear. Yeah, so one of our, probably our best day of the trip was the day we did a little eat anima beach, walk to great lunch. back to the hotel, another beach. Then we go up to the Redeemer at night. Okay? So it's winter there. By the way, the weather was perfect.

Like, could not have been more perfect weather. Like 80 degrees can walk around without being sweaty, but still nice sun getting the ocean. We go up to the Redeemer, it's nighttime. So because it's winter, it was an early sunset. Beautiful. And we were on the fence about whether to do it. Like, is it going to be worth it going up there? But because we waited until the very end of the day, it was not too crowded.

Views were beautiful. But I did have one major takeaway. And the size of that thing is enormous. And you're like, how do they even get this thing up here? You know, or you're worried it's going to fall on you. But you come up and it's where it's not falling you? Well, not like worried it's going to fall on me. But like, wow, man, like, how does that thing just stay up there for so long?

But you come up. And it's funny because like you have to get either a tram or a ride up to like the base level, then you've got to take another shuttle to go up again. Then you've got to take an elevator. Then you've got to take an escalator up to the very top. But as you're taking the escalator up, you come up from behind the Redeemer. And I got to tell you, one of my takeaways, Zach, not a lot of junk in the trunk on Christ, the Redeemer. No but.

He's like the anti-debo. He's the anti-debo. He's the Emmanuel Forbes, right? It's like the Michael Dunn. I don't have commentary here. This is one where I don't want to get myself in trouble. I don't know that about Jesus. Yeah.

No but. But a very memorable experience, right? Yeah. Yeah. Where would you rank it like among the, the great? The butts I've seen. I tell you what, I saw a lot of butts on that beach, Zach. Big butts.

You've been to the Great Wall of China. You've been... I have been to Egypt. I have. Oh, okay. So you've seen the pyramids. I have. Of like the man-made wonders of the world.

The Eiffel Tower. I've only been to Vegas. I haven't been to Paris. Where would you put... Where would you put the Redeemer? I'd probably go the butts on the beach number one. SoFi Stadium number two. And then the pyramids.

You haven't been to SoFi. I know. I would put, I don't know. I would say the pyramids and the Great Wall. I would say the pyramids number one. Okay. Okay. I would say that the Redeemer is,

I don't know that I would have enjoyed it as much if it had been super crowded. So it was nice to go up there. But at night, boy, were the views, the view is beautiful. I meant to ask you, Portuguese. Are you, like, do you know Portuguese?

Is there a language barrier with English? Do enough people like, can you use there? There was enough, you know, they can speak a little English back at you. Like Spanish, I never took Spanish, but, you know, I can, I can figure out Spanish based on having taken French and the similarity of the romance languages. like, especially if it's written. Portuguese, often incredibly indescribable to me. But we still, you know, didn't stop us from having a good time.

Okay. I have another story for you. Yeah, let's hear. Okay. Our first night in Rio, we went out to this restaurant club where they had like this samba music playing and it was a good time. Like, you sit down and have a couple of drinks and watch the show. and there was a couple next to us a little bit a little bit older you know maybe like uh mid

she looked like she was maybe mid 40s he was maybe early 50s something like that and they asked us to take a picture of them we then we asked him to take a picture of us uh i know that routine well realized that they were uh they were american and the longer we're sitting next to each other rachel and i decide to play uh play a fun game which i think is a good game for for all the couples out there if you're in a if you're in a foreign place or even if you're not uh we wanted to we wanted to guess and draft what state we thought that this couple was from okay so we had only had the one brief interaction um we're just judging based on comportment body type you know all that stuff accent and there was not a there was not a super heavy accent in just the brief interaction

So, gentlemen that I am, I let Rachel have the first pick. And she's, you know, she's on the fence. Is this a Midwest couple or is this a Southeast couple? Tough, tough call. She went Florida, number one. I take Illinois, number two. Oh, I have the whole draft here. She goes, then she comes back to the Midwest.

She goes Minnesota. I go Wisconsin. She goes North Carolina. I go Ohio. I was leaning on the Midwest. She goes Georgia. I take Texas, just, you know, volume-wise. Kind of throw it out there.

Exactly. Good play. She goes Pennsylvania. I go New York. I thought there was an outside chance that this could have been like an upstate New York type couple. So now this is in the air. Are we ever going to find out? Now they're drinking some champagne.

So I do at one point, I lean over like, oh, you guys like celebrating anything. She's like, oh, no, just on vacation. How about you? Like, oh, it's our anniversary. And then I sneak it in where are you guys from? You know what she says outside Chicago. Oh, your first pick, nailed it. Now, I don't know if I can say definitively this is what winning the Super Bowl feels like, but got to be pretty close.

Congratulations. How did Rachel take it? With incredible grace. Okay. as I would expect. Yes. That's great. I mean, what a call.

Number one, Pits, can you believe it? Hold on. That's a good game. I'm going to play that. Nailed it. Next time I'm out in a different place. I have a quick vacation story I'll give you. There was a few notes I had.

I wasn't gone for that long. I was gone for four nights, but I had a cute little story that I'll share on the show. Cute little story. I laugh as I said. as I say it that way. So in the car with my kids, sometimes I listen to the Cape, the song Jason Kelsey,

you know, Jason Kelsey's favorite song. I think there's, there's a valuable life lesson there, right? You know, close your eyes and hold your head and always trust your cape. No, I listen to what I, at home.

So we've, we've taught, I've talked a lot with my kids about leaps of faith. Okay? We talk about leaps of faith. And usually we mean it figured. right and you know if uh if they're trying a new experience if they're um you know read's first time at baseball so on's first time at dance class the first day of school right there's there's

there's different things like that you know close your eyes and hold your breath and always trust your case right have we lost zach i can't tell if this is me julia do you know we lost him okay well i think a good leap of faith is just trust that this is a good story. And we'll see how it goes. I'm going to guess that this story ends with Reed taking a really cool leap of faith off of like a diving board or something like that. And then him being excited about it and saying, see, it was a leap of faith.

That's going to be my prediction. But I guess we'll find out tomorrow. And by the way, just to close the loop, I still cannot remember the name of the movie or even the movie that I watched on the flight home. Still escaping me, driving me, absolutely bananas. But you know what? Vacation Bo? Not going to let it bother me.

Like water off a duck's back. No big deal. So that will do it for this episode of the P.HLY Eagles podcast. On tomorrow's show, we continue our position previews ahead of training camp. We're also going to talk about the hard knocks for the Giants offseason. I know that last night's episode was. the reveal of Sequin and Barclay signing with the Eagles. I'm working my way through these episodes.

Watch the first one this morning. We've got some takes. Boy, is it very funny to see what happens with Joe Shane in that front office? So we'll talk about that. We're also going to talk about Rank Week, which is going on here at PHLY. Zach, would you like to close your leap of faith story? Are you alive? Can you hear me?

I think we've lost Zach. We will have to get that story tomorrow. Okay, so that'll do it for this episode of the PHAY Eagles podcast for all of us here. Thank you for listening. We will talk to you tomorrow right at noon. And as always, we love you.