PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Is DeVonta Smith due for a big, long-term extension from the Philadelphia Eagles this offseason?

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

The Eagles already have A.J. Brown locked up to a big contract. Will they rush to do the same with DeVonta Smith as quickly as they can this offseason or will they wait to play things out? What does Smith think is the best course ahead? Does he want to be in Philly long term?Josh Tolentino of The Inquirer joins Zach Berman and Bo Wulf to discuss that question and more, like his expectations for the offseason ahead, Nakobe Dean’s future and how covering the Eagles is different from covering teams like the Dolphins, Packers and Rays. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to the PHLY Eagles podcast on a Wednesday afternoon, high noon, Bo Wolf. Zach Berman joined in studio by our special guest, Josh Tolentino of the Inquirer, straight from the YouTube comment sections to your screen. How are you doing, Josh? Oh, Zach, always a pleasure. I feel like a longtime fanatic or WPI listener when you first call in. First time, long time. Yeah, happy to be here, longtime listener.

Even back to the birds with friends days. You guys do a great job. We're talking. appreciate that. How about the digs, man? I know I know the viewers back home can't see north. North. Neither can I. North is there. West East. But what a show. What a production. Let's get it. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. Lots to talk about. You notice the high ceilings in here and you said put a real basketball hoop in here. We'll see if Zach takes a shot this time. But you're coming off a big performance the other day. Two shot. Two shot attempts. Well, I don't measure my shots. I measure wins

and losses, right? So what I care about is how my team is doing, not how I'm doing. And if I can make plays that help us win, that's what matters. Now, you did, unfortunately, take a shot at a few people before the show. You said, Josh, is our first in-studio guest, the first one other than Fletcher Cox, conveniently forgetting Danes and Coach Flynn and Sheel. Sorry. And so, unfortunately, those three have been buried as far as you're concerned. No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm Big fans of all of them. I was just trying to name drop Fletcher Cox, I think, right? I wanted to find a way to like give us some credit.

That's a Fletcher seat. Yeah, this is Fletcher's seat. So I wanted to give credit to Fletcher more than anything else. Some big shoes to fill. Zach, I have a quick question. Yeah, it's here. If you had your own pro basketball reference page, what's the average shots per game? I hope not very high.

but because I don't think I'm helping my team when I'm shooting. But I would probably say if I had to do the math, like all time. All time, like including just like pick up games? Oh, no, no, no. I'm saying in this league. Oh, in this league, okay. Probably 0.8 because there were a few games last year when we were down on numbers. So closer to one.

Closer to one. Closer to one. This year we have more scoring on our team. So when I have the ball, like among the four guys on the court, it's at least productive if I'm shooting. Well, let's get into this because you have an extensive basketball background. Josh, tell us a little bit about what you were like as a hooper. As like, what I was like as a hooper?

Yeah. I mean, you know, just high school and junior college days. Yeah. What was your game like? I still try to keep up with it. So, I mean, my background, I'm Filipino. Filipino's love basketball. You know, I think of like Eric Spolstra.

Yes. You know, just those vibes with hoopin. Okay. So with that in mind, with my culture, like, You know, I'm seated in this chair right now, but when I'm standing, I'm about six foot. Okay. That's pretty, that's pretty tall for a Filipino and not a flex, not a flex. That was a joke of my end.

I bring this up because whenever I'm basically playing in like these Filipino leagues, even out here, I'm pretty involved. Okay. In Philadelphia amongst the Filipino basketball community. Okay. But when I'm playing with these guys, I'm basically a center, like the tallest, you know, one of the tallest people on the court. when I'm playing just regular pickup, you know, at the Y, you know, at the crane right here, behind the studio. Okay.

I'm like a two, three. So, yeah, versatility. Okay. And what were you in, what were you in Juko? A two or three. Okay. And we're talking like, like, zero to 100 ratings. Are we higher on handles or jumper?

Like what's? Probably towards jumping, attacking the basket for sure. You're a slasher. Yeah, didn't really be pretty much in Jucco, but it felt. It felt good to have that continuity of the team atmosphere for sure. And now what some of your readers might not know, unless they're readers of Peter King, is that you have a famous pickup game or stories of pickup games with a quarterback. Some people might have heard of Patrick Mahomes.

Can you explain to us how you and Patrick Mahomes ended up playing pickup in Kansas City? Man, Zach, just starting off with a bang here. Exactly. Anybody who comes on, Zach will make sure that he has read everything you've ever written. No, no, all right, let's get it. So a long story, and I'm going to provide all of this for context. So this was right around OTAs. So I had a summer internship at the Kansas City Star.

Okay. My very first chief's assignment. So the first few weeks of the internship, I had been doing, you know, just general assignment, some Kansas City Royals. And then, you know, OTAs were starting up. So this is what, like 17, 18? My home's rookie year. So 1718, yep. Alex Smith was, you know, still the quarterback out there.

there. And I get my first chief's assignment. It was a practice, a Friday practice. So I meet Teres Pailer, who was the Kansas City Chiefs beatwriter at the time at the star. And I remember my story very vividly from that day. It was just a the running back there, Charkandric West. He was like a third string, like a Boston Scott type back for that team. He was doing like a singing for charity. So I was just assigned like just some random story for that day. I also like joined, you know, the scrum for Patrick Mahomes when he held his press conference availability. I think that was this is first time speaking, all of camp, you know, rookie pick, a lot of buzz around town. Oh, Josh, right to meet you.

Well, I actually didn't ask a question. You know, it's a scrum. I'm an intern. You got to know your place, you know. I don't know if Zach's interning, you know, you know, popping those questions. But anyways, I did not ask him a question. in the vicinity and the following day my Saturday assignment was covering a sporting Kansas City game so that was the MLS team out there and I went there with Sam McDowell who's now the columnist there

for the Kansas City Star he was the sporting Kansas City beat writer at the time and I went there with no assignment like I was just going there to assist again an intern at the time and lo and behold Patrick Mahomes is in attendance with Cairo Santos, the chief's kicker at the time. So I go down there, you know, interact with them and put a story about, you know, how these two are at the game. Next day. So now we're on Sunday. Oh, three in a row.

Yes. No, no, no. So this was the, this is the buildup. So the following Sunday, I had just found a church out there. And also Sundays as an intern, these are like really your only days off because you're working five, six days. A week, grinding, chasing all the stories, putting out, you know, raising your hand for anything. So Sundays, you're one day off.

And I go to this church. And as I'm leaving, I'm about to get in my car. And these group of guys just approach me before I, before I, before I, it's time to head out. And then, you know, simple introductions really quick. Obviously, I was a new face to the, the church at the time. And they asked me like, well, you know, simple interactions. And then they're like, oh, by the way, we're having a. picnic later at this park.

You know, we exchanged contact information, didn't think too much about it. So anyways, I'm back home at the place where I was living at the time, taking nap. And I actually set an alarm for the time that they were going to meet. Probably like two, three in the afternoon. So I wake up about an hour before the scheduled picnic. And I'm texting the guys, and I'm like, you know, can you send me the address? They send me the address, guys. It's about like an hour and 15 minutes away.

Okay. And I'm like really debating. like this is my only off day i had covered a game the night before i think i had a royals thing the following day should i go um but but then they mentioned basketball they were like we're going to play basketball um and i'm like okay let's first time in a new city uh let's get after it and so i had i had over again it's about an hour and 15 minutes in leewood kansas so i was living north of kansas so it was uh way south of the city and guys i show up to the i show up to the court It's the handful of guys from church, like six to eight guys, ranging from like teenage age to like 40s, 50s, some older dads.

And so they're on one side of the court, about six to eight guys, the other side of the court, Garrick Dieter, Marcus Kemp, and Patrick Mahomes. And at first I had to double take real quick. And at first we didn't really interact much at all. So at first, I said we had about eight guys from the church. So we played four on four on one side of the court. Well, these three guys, there might have been one other guy there from the team at the time. And it was just them four shooting around on their side.

And so I'm playing with the guys from church, and none of them, none of these guys, knows who Patrick was. You know, also he was a rookie at the time, probably like a month or two into town. eventually so we probably play like two three games and then Patrick actually walks over to mid-court and he says hey guys do you want to play some pickup guys want to run full in his voice just exactly like that and so we end up running a few games I think we played three games and you know as you when you play pickup you size up the other team and you know based on height that's that's who you match up against so again

I was the tallest one at a church where a lot of Filipinos and happened to be, you know, the closest one to. And also like Eric Dieter, Marcus Camp, you know, wide receiver bodies, you know, think of like a Quez Watkins type build. So, I mean, they're all pretty tall. But anyways, I had matched up against Patrick for three games and the last game. Guys, we're up about 10 to 5.

Wow. And, you know, we just need one basket. and Marcus Kemp on my team just kept trying to hit a two-pointer from mid-range or I'm sorry, not mid-range, from half court. Patrick's team, they come back, it's tied 10-10, they go on a five-o run. Patrick, oh my God, I'll never forget it.

Size me up, it's like a crossover, spin move, fade away from mid-range to win the game. Right in your eye. Yeah, but just a long way to recap. just that run-in that I had very random. Pretty good. From that's your pole MVP. I mean, that's pretty good.

I mean, I imagine you score on him too, though. Yeah, and it also was just enjoyable, you know, interacting between the games. You know, both guys fresh out of college in a new city. I think Drake had just dropped the new album at the time. So we were able to, you know, have mutual interest on that. He was talking about how it was like living away. from Brittany Britten Holmes

because she did not live there at the time. Yeah. So, you know, relatable aspects on that front and, you know, was able to build somewhat a relationship there.

That's good. And then six years later, you're covering them in the Super Bowl. So, right? That's right. Did you exchange a knowing glance, you know, after the Super Bowl last year?

No, so it's... Pre-super Bowl, maybe? The year after, back when we were colleagues at our former company, I was covering the Packers at the time, and they actually played the Chiefs in the preseason.

and I was able to catch up with him then. And they hosted the Eagles, they hosted the Chiefs, was it two seasons ago? Yeah, 20-21. Yeah, and I actually caught up with him in the tunnel. Oh, nice. Oh, there you go. Good stuff. Zach.

Yes. Anything going on in the Eagles world? They actually signed a different guy yesterday than we even talked about. Yeah, speaking about the Chiefs, they signed Daryng-Kinnard. It was a, I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly. I don't have my notes in front of me here. I like a Daryon Kinnard. I liked him coming out two years ago.

A fifth round pick out of Kentucky, grew up at Believe in Ohio. And gives the eagle, he was cut back in the summer and was on the practice squad for the Chiefs, gives the Eagles offensive tackle depth. And then, or he's more of a camp body and he'll play his way on. And then we mentioned the running back yesterday, Price, or what's? Tyrion Davis Price. Yeah, Davis Price, who was with the Niners throughout. the season cut in December

was on their practice squad and now his agency said he got the biggest contract of any player who got a futures deal we'll see how that materializes but yeah two signings by the Eagles as they continue to kind of scour this is their version of Trey Sermon and Ian Book going with former players who were

decent traffics and trying to see if they can have a second chance home here yeah I think Cunard probably more of a guard for the Eagles interesting player and you know they let go D.K. McDonald's, so they brought another D.K. I don't think that was their thinking there, but I suppose

You don't know that it wasn't. I suppose that's the case. I would bet that in the offices, in the NovaCare offices, when they're having this conversation, should we add Daring Kinnard, not once did it come up that D.K. McDonald went to Kansas. We need another D.K. in the building.

I don't think anyone thought that. I think you're right, but you don't know that. Okay. If you want, I'm going to push me on that technicality, sure. I don't know that. I did not text the coaches yesterday saying, did you know that you have another D.K.

You can't say it definitively. That's all I'm saying. When I speak to the coaches, are we expecting anything else Eagles-wise before the combine next week? Yes, I would expect something quite soon in terms of... That's cryptic.

Wow. Yeah, what might be coming down the fight here. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Wow. Jeffrey on line one. What could that mean? I don't know.

We'll see. We'll see. I actually shouldn't say quite soon. Wow. I think news will pick up. I'll put it that way. I think news will pick up. Share with the audience. I don't have it yet. I don't have anything yet. Okay. All right. Yeah. I think news will pick up. All right. Well, one thing we want to talk about, Eagles-wise, as we have sort of the eye on what could be coming down the pike here and knowing some of the guys on the team that you know well, Josh, some guys you have written about extensively. One of them, as we had in the, the tease for the episode is Devante Smith. You went down to Florida with him last year. You have, I think, talked to him a good bit. You have a good understanding of sort of how he views his future and his place on the team. This is the off season when the Eagles can sign him to a long-term extension. I'm of the opinion that the Eagles would like to do that as soon as possible. They don't want to let him go anywhere.

What do you sort of expect on the Devante Smith Eagles front? Yeah, Bo. I think it just feels inevitable at this point. it's not it's not really a question if but but when okay when it comes to uh devante and obviously they have the um the option to exercise that fifth year option i believe the the beginning of may um but when it comes to devante we know how he loves his homegrown products uh he's been a smashing hit yep and zach i know you love trivia there were 10 receivers taken in the first two rounds of the 2021 draft. Are you able to recall at least the five that we're taking the first round?

Yes. Yes, I can do that. Um, spin it off. Wow. Okay. So J. Marr Chase, J.Ewen Waddle, Devante Smith, uh, Rashad Bateman. Um, and then where... It's four. Uh, more. In... Had a key play in last year's Super Bowl. Yeah, and Cadarius Tony. And Cadarius, Tony. Yeah. And then in the net, yeah, yep. And then... Oh, you're going to do the second round as well? No, no, no, I'll pass. I mean, I could, I sometimes conflate the 20-21 draft with the 2020 draft because

Eagles needed receivers both years. So, yeah, I sometimes put those two together. But, yeah, I did pretty well for this. Yep. Right. Elijah Moore, Grandale Moore, Dwayne Eskridge, two-two at will, and Terrence Marshall Jr. Okay, yeah. So of those 10.

who leads that group in most games played? Games played. Devante's almost one game. Devante. Devante. So, Devante's played 50 games. Most games played in that draft class.

The third most catches, the third most yards, the second most touchdowns at 19. And, you know, I'm actually surprised he's only third in catches. I get that he's behind Waddle, but who's ahead of him in catches?

Is it Waddle? Waddle and Jamar. Okay. So that's, So that's actually what I was going to transition to is that I think there have been many late nights or whatever it may be, you know, we're in the elevator, leaving locker room going upstairs at the press box and whatever city it may have been. And we've had plenty of discussions about how he could have been targeted even more. And obviously this is with playing in an offense with A.J. Brown the past two seasons. We can, you know, discuss even further the ends and outs of the offense, the lack of motion.

And I think there's plenty more for Devante to achieve, and I think how we sees that. And not just that, I think one thing I also wanted to point out is you guys have seen this plenty, especially being in this city. But star-wide receivers in the NFL, sure, they're some of the most talented human beings in the world. But they usually come with some frills, some drama, you know, some star personalities. And our interactions with Devonte, I don't think of my – personally, I – Certainly, I think just speaking in general, he's a pretty good guy to deal with it. And he doesn't come up with any of that off the field trouble or drama is what I would put in. And I think, you know, Howie has to strike.

Well, I also think that Howie, Sarzac, has lived through enough of an experience with the Eagles when they didn't have good receivers. And how much of a slog it was to do anything on offense that he has no interest in. letting somebody like Devante Smith go. Yeah, and to that point, we imagine that there's a decision here on DeVante's point as well, from Devante's side as well, because on 25 teams in the NFL, Devante is like the no doubt top receiver.

And you can make an argument that he's like the top receiver on the Eagles, right? But it's a one-in-one A, like they say. A.J. Brown is just, he's a special player, hall-fame trajectory. I mean, physically just different, right? and they compliment each other well. But AJ has this four-year, $100 million contract that was signed two years ago.

The market keeps going up, right? I mean, Devante needs to do what's best for Devante when it comes to the contract. And there are ways to pay to two wide receivers. What I'm curious about is, do you think that it matters to either of them how much the other guy makes and whether you're making more than AJ

or AJ is making more than Devante because they're competitive guys who are the top in their industry. That's a great question. And I'll put it out there that once they do sign Devante is a very bold prediction. There might be some upset chatters.

But I think once they signed Devonte to that extension, I think AJ is an eagle for less than a season, for less than a full year. Interesting. After he signs that extension. A very bold prediction. And why do you say that? Just because the way the roster is constructed right now,

I mean, we obviously saw the way that Jalen's deal was structured in a way to be flexible in terms of spreading money around in future years. But, I mean, imagine you think you'd have two players taking out, like 25, 30% of the money? It's hard to do, especially knowing how much they want to pay guys on the defensive line. You can't really have like four or five guys making that much. money but you got to pay land in got to pay land in and i think that might happen this off season

two but when you have flu chip players you don't like to see them go out the door and it's hard to find an a j brown replacement right like uh yeah we've talked about on on on this show yeah that if they had to pick one who would they go with and it's it's hard to say because i mean i don't want to say it's like how he picking between his children but but like they are two special players and you don't you want to keep them both. There is, you know, there are cap considerations. I personally think that if you can keep both of them happy, which is in addition to the cap part of it,

but if you can keep both of them happy, pay both receivers and go thinner elsewhere. Because when you, I think you win in the league with star power and then you get by elsewhere. Close your eyes and the question is only one of the two of them is going to be on the team in two years. Which one is it?

And what's your answer? I mean, I would say, AJ, but I mean, that AJ is on the team. Yeah, but, but as, as Josh referenced, like receivers can be a little volatile, right? Yeah, I feel pretty confident. AJ's already been traded once. And, but, but to me, I just think AJ's,

I just think AJ's so rare. And I would do everything to keep a guy like AJ Brown. So I feel pretty confident that if only one of them is here in two years, it's Devante. I'm with Bo. Yeah, I mean, the Eagles do value there, their homegrown guys. I think Devonte, I don't want to say AJ comes with headaches, but like we said, AJ's been traded once before.

Right. Right. So there has been a team that's traded. That's the side. Now, it did not work out well for them. And maybe there's a lesson in that for the Eagles. But yeah, Devante would seem to be the one who fits the Eagles more long term because he's a homegrown guy.

And if they give him that extension, like Josh mentioned, you're not playing catch up with another deal, right? That's the market setting deal. I just think AJ is so special that it's hard for me to say otherwise. Devante, just to add on the no frills part, so like the story that you referenced, it was at the conclusion of his rookie season. I had discussed with him going down there to train or watch him train.

And the night before, it was a very rough schedule of what we were going to do. like we didn't have set times or anything. I just showed up the night before and was waiting to hear back. Okay. So I get a text from him probably about like 9, 10 a.m. Of what time to show up to the gym? He said 4.45 a.m. Nice.

Good test of you. Yes. I love that. And so when I showed up, I thought this is what we were going to do for that the entire day. So we're there in the gym for about two hours. And he tells me that he's going to have another workout in a couple of hours. And we had discussed the getting a meal and he canceled the meal so that he could nap for the the two a day, the two a day on field portion of the workout.

So, you know, went back to the hotel, met him up a couple hours later. Did you take a nap too? Maybe like 20, 20, 30 minute nap. Whatever you could squeeze in. And but that's, I'm just, my point here is I'm just trying to add to the no frills thing. And I'm sure obviously AJ, you know, specimen. I mean, one of the best that what he does, a Hall of Fame trajectory, like what Zach said.

But when it comes to, and there really hasn't been drama with AJ, you know, the no-talking type thing. You know, the removing Eagles references from his page. But with Devante, it feels like it's been very slim to none. Yeah, I mean, I think if you're making a long term bet. on like who's going to be more reliably hitting like their their ceiling over the next three or four years. I think you would have been on Devante.

We'll reconvene, Zach. Yeah, I don't like answer that question because I don't want like I wouldn't want either one of them out the door. Of course, but those are the practicalities of like running an NFL roster. It doesn't have to be though. Like you can pay two guys. You know, the- Can I think they will this year. but I think eventually it's going to be tough.

Look, the Bengals are dealing with the same thing right now with Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, right? And the dolphins might get to that point with Tyrakeel and Jell and Waddle. Tyra Kiel's a little older. But yeah, there's a reason why teams don't have these types of wide receiver combinations. And that's why, from a contract perspective

and from a, like, I guess a personality perspective, probably Devante because Devante is everything you want there but man like I I don't know the chiefs have won two Super Bowls since trading Tyree Kill so it's not as if you need a Hall of Fame wider you know but I would not like

to be the one trading way AJ Brown the guy who did that before got fired a few months later right that's true well all you got to do is get AJ Brown Devante Smith and Howie Roseman together give them a couple Miller lights to figure things out because what's better than a gathering with friends

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I was like, oh, shit, I should have waited until the beginning of that. And then segues you in. It's a Selzer, though. It's not a Miller Light. High noon. We'll pretend it's a Miller Light. Okay, another guy I want to ask about Josh, a guy who you have a history with, I think. Nicobi Dean, who has been sort of a history with.

Well, you've talked to it. You've written a lot of stories about Nicobo Dean. You spent time with him. Did a good piece last year that I would recommend people checking out on Inquirer.com about, you know, the tragic event in Georgia and kind of how that affected him. I thought it was a good piece. I'll ping pong that back to you, Zach. I didn't know if Nicobie was going back to school. There you go.

Oh, thank you. I'm T-H-L-Y. found that out. Yeah, thank you. there you go good ping pong I like that appreciate it and the Kobe Dean is like is a very

I don't think polarizing is the right word because it's still early but a player in focus for Eagles fans right because he came in with high expectations and it was like oh my God I can't believe we got this guy rookie year he doesn't get on the field

the team sort of hands over you're the main man in the middle of the defense this year and unfortunately he is he is hampered by injuries howie Roseman goes out of his way a month ago to talk about how the team believes in him as a player and a person moving forward. What are your expectations for Nacobi moving forward? Yeah, and I think the context is important.

We've seen historically that's a position where they don't treat well in the draft or in free agency. I think the last day two pick they spent there was Davion Taylor. We know how that ended up. So a lot of hype particularly with Nikobe. And I mean, he arrived here as the college football. ball's best linebacker that national championship season right prior but he couldn't find the field and you know we we've discussed you know before with that season with kaiser white with tj edwards looking back i think they certainly regret um not resigning one of those guys particularly tj

um kind of like a diamond in the ruff there with uh being a former undrafted guy uh but back to nicobe i mean the injuries this past season i think the juries this past season i think the juries Are he still out is a common saying with him? But I don't know. I'm curious, when he has been on the field, which has been quite limited, do you see the vision there? I would say that I have been a little bit underwhelmed with him when he's been on the field. But part of that is the discussion that we've been having over the past couple episodes, which is he has an end.

Now, it's a little bit different with Nkobi because part of the selling point with him is this guy was the guy on the Georgia defense played for a long time. He probably doesn't need as much development time, but he has not been given those on-field reps in the NFL. And linebackers sometimes take a little bit of time to, you know, become their best selves. And so him not getting to play as a rookie and then not getting to be on the field as much of this season,

I feel like probably negatively affects what he's going to be like next year. But I also think that I have no problem moving into, like, planning for the next season with Nicobina as one of your two starting linebackers. I think that's totally reasonable. I think they just need a little bit more volume at that position. Yeah, I would be honest, is that if you're taking a linebacker

in the third round and you're going into year three without knowing who he is, or I should say what he is as a player, then that's problematic. And so I understand year one was because of depth. I understand year two was because of injuries, but there's no way the Eagles can argue that this is

gone the way they wanted, because by year three of a third round linebacker, for the reasons you mentioned, the Eagles don't invest third round picks in a linebacker. This wasn't a move made with a succession plan in mind. This was a move made to get a player who can be your guy. And that's why the Eagles weren't active last year in the free agent market at linebacker

because they were turning this over to Nikobe Deed. They made that abundantly clear last off season. So this has not gotten out. Now, it doesn't mean year three and year four won't work out for him. and there's a lot to like, especially in terms of the personality, the leadership, the acumen. But you can't keep saying this is what he did in 2020, or 2021 in Georgia, or 2021 in Georgia, rather, because it's year three of the contract. They need a better idea of who he is right now. Yeah, and I think things that you alluded to, Zach, are certainly there, his IQ, his want to.

but at this point it's just still an unknown factor of what he is as an NFL product and just this past season the injury history he had never had such a long-term injury where it forced him out or forced him to be sideline for that amount of games. Kind of a crazy injury.

LinzFRAC injury, I don't know if it's been reported but that was the injury in separate foots. From my discussions with the Kobe and people close to them, they want to attribute it towards the equipment. that was being used towards the cleats.

Interesting. So he's... Wait, in both feet? He has spent a lot of time looking at different cleats from what I've heard over the past several weeks and months. So we'll see what he's rocking at OTAs, you know, if he's out there. But, I mean, I don't know. Outside of these two injuries this past season, I mean, he hasn't had an injury history.

He had declined surgery. Part of the reason why people say that he dropped in terms of his draft. stock coming out of college. But I also spoke to people who were at his pro day. And, you know, pro days are genuinely overall viewed to make, I mean, when you're hosting a pro day at your own facility, like you're supposed to look like a star. Sure. And we saw what happened with Jalen Carter and obviously a very different situation with

what he was dealing with off the field at the time coming out about a year ago. But people who attended NCOBE's pro day, I mean, multiple people. and, you know, different organizations we're not entirely pleased. And, you know, it's balancing that versus what they see on film. And at this point, you know, we mentioned film from an Eagles perspective. There's not much outside of what's on the practice tape.

Just to clarify what you were talking about with the feet, you're talking about because the injury in the summer was the other foot. He got the Liz Frank. After the two different feet, right? Yes. You didn't get it in both feet. No, after the Patriots game, I'm not sure what foot it was, but it was a lynn's frack.

And then when he came back, Linz frack and the other foot. Got it. Okay. Which, again, a cleat issue was discussed. He's revisiting his equipment choices. Interesting. Yeah.

I mean, I think from the Eagle standpoint, they need to approach the off-season, like they need to find a linebacker better than Nikobe Dean and then hope that Nicopi Dean can be the number two and then add some competition there. And this ties into something we discussed on yesterday's show, right? that A, players develop

with different timelines, I get that. And B, you're not going to hit on every pick, even the ones you think you're going to make. But from my perspective, you either by year three or year four of someone, we talked about this with Cam Juergens, you either want to know or you don't, like, you want to know, all right,

this guy's going to be this, or this guy's not going to be this. The hardest spot to be in is when you just don't have enough information yet. And the Eagles are in that spot with Niccoe Dean, but they don't have that information yet. and that that goes into what boat was just saying. It complicates your off-season plans

because when you don't have the information, you need to operate as if it's not there and try to upgrade. And then if he is the player you think he is and that we think he can become, then it's almost like a bonus for you. Yeah. And remember how healthy they were that Super Bowl season.

They entered, you know, all 22 starters. And frankly, they were pretty healthy this year too, aside from Nikobe, unfortunately. Yeah. At health, you know, obviously it was a clear storyline coming in the summer. And then when they did have their first injury, Nacobi was one of them back in training camp last year. So that kind of created the cloud hovering. And then, you know, he was out there week one, got injured on a play where he wasn't near the ball from my understanding.

And then obviously missed all those games this past season. So we'll see what's in store for him for what about Nikobe personally. Like I just, you know, I spent a couple of minutes talking to him on locker room cleanout day. and he said it was sort of an interesting experience for him being away from football, which he hasn't been for a while. And it helped him sort of like put things in perspective. And like it doesn't have to necessarily be the thing that his life revolves around. But he's still so highly thought of in that building.

How do you feel like he is handling all of this from a personal standpoint? How you kind of summarize it here. It sounds like Anthony Rendon from Angels the other day. I think not quite like that. Yeah. I mean, I think just reminding to earlier in the season, the first injury that set him out for those first handful of games, I think he told both Zach and I that he was pushing to travel with the team or that was something Nick Siriani shared in one of his press conferences. And Zach and I were both chasing him down in the locker room that day. So to answer your question, I mean, the one and Nih2 is definitely there.

It was really interesting because people kind of viewed him as. a vet in the room just because he has that one year of experience, but that was given the lack of experience elsewhere at that position where, you know, they're signing guys like Zach Cunningham, Nick Morrow, who Nick Morrow, by the way, I ran into recently. Really? He's still in the area. Okay.

So we'll see what's next for him. Great food city, so. Yeah. Well, there you go. It's so. You got joy in a lot. Appreciate that. He's not in the area anymore.

It is a great food city. Christian Alice. Christian Alice. But his favorite. I mean, what can I say? there are people in the chat who want to ask you about your thoughts on the sort of silly report yesterday about the splintered locker room but I feel like we've already covered this that's the Christian Ellis thing

and it wasn't a splintering it was a schism I mean you look at the the report I mean was that shut down quickly today I think there's another report I think Shepter said yeah I mean yeah I feel like that's the like the thing Zach was bringing up yesterday probably not not something that deserves time I mean it's such a snowball effect especially when they the season like what they did. I mean, when they made the change from to sigh, I mean, so many guys expressed excitement. And then, you know, you revisit that right at the end of the season where they really excited. Right. So what are sort of your other expectations for the offseason to come? Yeah. I mean, obviously they've got a lot of

moving pieces. The three picks at the top of the draft is really interesting because the last time how we made three picks, I believe was 2019. Dillard, Miles Sanders, and JJ Arthago Whiteside. And the league... They didn't go so well. I mean, they were... Howie's phone was going crazy with people texting him

about how good that Arthago, white side pick was. Now, that's... That's exactly what he said. And it did not come to fruition, of course. That's okay. And even the Hertz draft, the following year,

outside of Jalen, I mean, not a very good draft. So, just because they have all of these picks, it's really about how they use them. I mean, in my time, just being around the team, I think that Devante landed, in draft has been his best drafts, but it's also like the last time they had nine picks that

they used nine picks. Yeah. And the thing about like a Devante Landon draft is when you're drafting at the top of both rounds, like it should be. Sure. That's a good point. You should be hitting on that. Like the best draft how he's had in my time covering him was I don't know if it's ironic,

but oddly after the Super Bowl when they didn't have a first round pick and they took Goddard, they took sweat, they took Milata, they took Matt Prior, they took Avanti Maddox. But these years, when it's like pivotal drafts, like the one you mentioned, I remember writing in 2019, this is the most important draft in years for the Eagles because three picks in the top two rounds. That's the position they're in this year. And it's so pivotal in these situations. It didn't prove that way in 2019, but because you're looking, when you're at this point in your team's cap picture, you need those first and second round picks to be starters for you.

And if you have three, you want to hit on two of them. If you have three picks in the top 53, I think it is, you need to hit on two of them. So when you say they need those guys to be starters, does that mean that you lean towards like drafting a right tackle of the future would be a poor use of resources? No. I think in the second. You mean starter in the general sense. Yes, exactly.

Not starter day one, but I'm saying become like core starters for your team or become key starters for your team. Yeah. Okay. I would say that's a top priority, Bo, finding lanes replacement. Yeah, I think they think so too, just knowing the way that they think.

A lot of feet talk on the show today, people sort of want to see you flash those shoes that you have. Man. Beautiful. Yeah, it's a... I mean, a lot of talk about... Just some slight one game. I mean, Zach, will you admit

that you are not the most fashionable person on the set right now? Yes. I mean, Zach's got some fashion. I mean, that's very reluctant. I'm a strong number two today. Yeah. You're a strong number two today?

Yes. Why? I mean, come on. We're going to be honest. I'm a strong number two today. You're wearing a jacket. What are you so proud of here? This is a nice black sweater.

You're wearing a jacket and a hoodie. Okay. All right. Look. I don't want to interject too much here. All right, Julia, Let's pull up the thing that I sent you before the show. Because I want to know what your reaction would be if you woke up to this in the middle of the night.

23.m. yesterday. I look at my phone and I got a message that says Twitter, at Zebram followed you back at 233 in the morning. Yeah. I can explain what happened. Is he going through a purge? No, no, no, no. I can't explain why. I felt bad.

And I actually thought you might bring this up on yesterday's show. I was thankful. I didn't know what your notification. thing was what's going to be. I was scrolling Bo's Twitter at 233 in the morning. And by accident, I clicked unfollow. And I was like, you know, typically when this happens, you just follow someone and you just move on with your day, right?

It's not a big deal. With Bo, I was afraid this was going to lead the show. This was going to be like. I actually might have. I forgot about it yesterday because it was so early. And literally it was an unfollow and follow the same. Like, all right, I'm scrolling. What was the time difference between you on following and following back?

Oh, 30 seconds, like less than 30 seconds. It was right away. It was once I realized. I'm surprised the notification popped. Yeah, because usually if you do it quick enough. Yeah. Yeah, so I was going through my phone like this. And as you're like scrolling, so if I'm on Bose page, our connection.

Why were you scrolling my page at 2.30 in the morning? And so I was clicking that, like to scroll down, and I clicked the following thing to scroll down by accident. It was my fault. And why were you doing that at 2.30 in the morning? Let's see the great content you produced. I mean, talk about like the biggest waste of time possible. 2.30 in the morning, you're scrolling my Twitter feed. Mikey brings up a great point.

You do have to double tap to unfollow. You have to click it and then ask if you're sure. That's true. So you accidentally press twice. I just remember I quickly did it right back yet. It was purely by accident. It was, there was nothing. there was no intent here.

I feel the tension. I mean, you think you know what guy. I've been working together long enough. All of a sudden, he's finally following me back. All right. All right, what's the next topic on the agenda? I don't know. I feel like I can't get over the pride you have over this jacket.

This is a nice jacket. Isn't it, Josh, this is a nice jacket? It's not a hashtag. I don't want to interject. It's fine. I don't know why you're so offended by this. You can get them back with the unfollow and follow. There's no, what difference do you think you have here?

Clothing wise. What is your, where is this coming from? Let's move on to the next topic I play here. Okay? I admit Josh is the most fashionable one here. All right. What do you want to talk about, Zach? Well, there's a lot, Josh.

So for those who don't know, before Josh covered the Eagles, he covered the Miami Dolphins, covered the Green Bay Packers with the Tampa Bay Rays in between. But we're so hyper-focused on the Eagles in this market that I am curious your perspective, how does, whether it's organizationally, whether it's the fan base, whether it's the locker room, how are the Eagles different than the Dolphins, the Packers? Yeah, and I mean, those are two very strong fan bases, but you know how Jalen Hertz likes to say he controls, the temperature of the room. It's a saying that he likes to...

Thermostat, not the thermometer? Yes. I truly feel that, you know, walking around that, you know, I live just a few blocks from here. And I obviously commuting a lot, walking a lot throughout the city, throughout the season, that Sunday's results are Thursdays

or whenever they're playing, Fridays in Brazil, that the result from that game, it really does, you know, affect the mood of the city. And in terms of the passion and the fans, I have never gotten as much emails and, you know, responses, you know, virtually, whether it be Twitter, DMs, etc. Email, emails here are crazy in terms of readership and views. In terms of the city, you know, I grew up in Chicago, like I think we mentioned earlier, but moving back from Florida took some getting used to.

Temperature wise. Yeah, temperature-wise. Speaking of the Dolphins, by the way, Andrew Van Ginkle, his breakout season was actually the year that I was there. I think he'd be a pretty good fit. Yeah, we like a Van Gingle. If Vic Van Gengue was trying to, you know,

home pick his guys here in free agency. Especially if they trade, you know, Hassan Reddick or Josh Wet, then we can ask, was the gink there? But I mean, as we can ask, yes. Just, uh, you know that? I mean, that's a reference for a small number of people.

As opposed to the references we have that are for a large number of people. Correct. Give your opinion, says AWOG, opinion on... I think it was the fashion. I think we can move on.

I'm not allowed to... What do you like about a Van Ginkle? I mean, obviously his ability to rush the pasture. I think his most vintage move, just being able to watch his tape, is sort of that swim rip. But I think he's really underrated

as a bull rusher. I mean, I've seen some practice reps back from that season where, I mean, he was going up against their top tackles. And there were many plays where those guys ended up on their backside. You know, could he do that to Elaine Johnson, Jordan Milata here, you know, to be determined

if he were to come up here. But also his value is you know, we've seen how this coaching staff and obviously there's been turnover this season, how they've enjoyed dropping Hassan Reddick back into coverage. I think Van Giggle would actually be an upgrade in that department. He's got some pretty long length in terms of his arms. But I don't know.

I'd argue that the inside linebacker and safety is a much higher priority. Yeah, I think that's probably contingent on if radic moves, basically. But yeah, Van Ginkle is always one of those guys if you do the searching for like the most efficient pass rushers, quarterback hits, divided by pass rush opportunities.

He's always pretty high up there. If I can ask Josh questions, on three different eagles here. And this is continuing referencing some of Josh's stories in the past. I've told Josh this. I'll tell the audience. I always admire when reporters, you know, get access that others can't get, right? It's one thing to be by someone's locker, right, and have in-depth conversations.

It's another thing to be out to lunch with them or in their home, and you're out to lunch with James Bradbury last year before the Super Bowl. You were at Dallas Goddard's home. Dallas got on Avanti Maddox's home when they shared it the day before the Super Bowl when they were getting their haircut. And I asked about these three players because these are all three players we've talked about at different points in this show in recent weeks. James Bradbury

coming off, it's clearly a down year. Avanti Maddox coming off to very injury-prone years with a high-cap number. It's unlikely he'll be back at that number. He would need to restructure. And Dallas-Gader, as we've said, he was not in flu world order because we expect him back. But he's older now than Zach Hertz was.

was when the Eagles drafted got her, then doubt Brent Selwick was when the Eagles drafted Earths. And that's a way of saying you need to start thinking succession plan. What do you think of the next like one month to 13 months in those three players, Eagles careers? Also, let's not short bow here, golfing, Kevin Petulow. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we don't want to just talk about stories we've been with me. Absolutely.

I mean, I guess when it comes to those three, Avanti, Dallas, and James, and I guess we'll focus on defense here for a second, but James Bradbury has reached polarizing subject here. I mean, it's really tough to tell with him. I mean, the dead money, it's about like, what, four or five? Post June one. Post June one. You know, how does how he and, you know, his experts there in the front office view that, how, you know, obviously what they do in the draft and in free agency can sway that?

you know, I certainly hope that the team would be interested in like a legurious Sneed type player. Right. But with Bradbury, whether it's, you know, he's approaching his, I believe, age 31 season. We both have birthdays in August. We both turned 30 this past August. Okay. I mean, when it comes to him, it's like, do you value him still as a full-time player? Because you're certainly paying him full-time all pro money coming off that season.

are you do you lessen his role similar to how they they did this season um i mean obviously they've i think they've got a lot of guys that they're not a lot of guys but i think they like keely wringo um as they should yeah i guess my question would be how do you think that bradbury would take being asked to be like the number the the backup corner on the outside is that is that a thing that he would be amenable to yeah i mean i think he was forced into it this past season um i think it's really just the decision comes down to if they move on from him or not because if they do keep him around, I think he is open to that roller. I mean, he was obviously forced into that this past season. With Avanti, it's just, he has not been healthy over the past couple of seasons.

Right before they probably signed him doing his extension was probably his best season in terms of availability. So that one's just it and it's all types of different injuries with him. I mean going in the Super Bowl, he had the foot issue this past year was the peck. And I certainly think they need to restructure that for sure. But I'm sorry, and who was your other ones at? And then Goddard. Oh, and Goddard. You know, last year, I think I kind of went on board of they were going to identify his replacement.

And I really don't think they have to a full-time capacity. Obviously, Jack Stolling and, you know, Jalen Trust, or Jalen Trust. We know that. Yes, we know that. we know grant's capabilities and you know i'd argue that neither of them have you know are have been willing to you know take on that full-time role we've seen what happens when goddard is out missing um from the offense um so uh i don't know it's a loaded question but i think uh if you had to rank those guys in terms of uh who's going to be here the longest

Hmm. Let me go Dallas. Yeah. Mm. That next one's a tough one. Maybe Avanti and then James. So you think they move on from James? Yeah, I mean, I still think that there's a lot of value there with Avonte Maddox because when he is healthy, I mean, it's been a very repetitive statement, but he is one of the better nickel cornerbacks in the league.

He brings that tenacity to the defense. Over the past couple of years, we've seen how much they ask of the nickel. Yeah. And just historically, his. context is being a homegrown pick. Yeah. Now that contract is like it's, it was always ripe for restructuring this year,

no matter basically what was happening. So I'm curious, like nickel is always a very important position these days, but it's also a position where it is not that hard to find like competent play. And so I don't know what his market value would be. I don't know what the Eagles will view that as. Yeah, I,

He is someone who the Eagles really like. We're all on board that you can't pay a nickel that amount of money. So it's just a matter or it's just a matter of, is there a number that he's agreeable on and what the market would be elsewhere? And this is similar to how the Eagles are allowing Hassan Reddick to seek a trade. It's similar in that you talk to Maddox's camp and you say, and I think Maddox probably understands there's a number that he won't come back,

that he won't come back on and there's a number they would want him on and what the rest of the league would pay him there. No, Josh, have you heard of Mr. Beast? I have, actually. And thoughts on how important he is to the reason that there are so many bifurcated streaming options. Zach shaking his head. I mean, I think it's important to be in the know.

I mean, I don't want to totally jump on the Zach train there, but I think Zach has a point. People want to know your top five and, bottom five presidents as well, but I'll save you, I'll save you from having to do that. In the other studio where the Phillies show was just happening, and make sure you're watching the Philly show and reading our coverage, they keep talking about Blake Snow. And I bring this up because among your greatest hits, if you will, was following Blake Snow back home to Seattle when you were covering the raise and you saw now blake snow was a siong winner in

san diego but when i think of blake snow i think it was Tampa bay time and the manager taking it was it Kevin cash taking him out uh too soon in the postseason and potentially costing them right i was covering the dolphins at the time for the athletic but still covering the raise because the you know that position um you know needed some help and you know i would was, again, covering the dolphins at the time. And when he was removed from that World Series game, game six, his dad was calling me from the stadium. Really? Yes.

Really? Livid. Like, a lot of explicit words were said on that call. As I can imagine. So not to put you in an uncomfortable spot, but he is proud. He's the top free agent pitcher available right now, him in Jordan Montgomery. Do you have, is there any chance that he? He could be living here in Philly or is he going to be pitching against the Phillies or is he going to be in another league altogether?

I think there's some slight interest from the Phillies. You know, I'd keep it very minimal. And I think we saw just recently just how much money they offered Yamamoto or reported to be exceeding what the Dodgers signed him for. The thing with Blake is though that I am comfortable putting out there is that they have looked into acquiring him the past two trade deadlines. So there's some interest there. He's got a relationship with Kevin Long, the hitting coach. And, you know, we'll kind of keep it to that. I think the big breaking news on the PHLI Eagles show.

I think the way that the Phillies would want to do it would be on a really high average for a short-term deal. You know, is a two-time Sigh-Young winner-raining NL-Sai-Young. I think he's seeking a long-term contract. I don't think the Phillies are necessarily there. But I don't know. We'll see. I think they're a fourth or fifth when it comes to ranking his potential destinations. In terms of likelihood?

Yes. Okay. With, you know, New York obviously being number one, San Francisco and the Angels. Okay. Bunched in there. It's always a good work by you, Zach, getting that out of. Yeah. Yeah, Josh is a wealth of information.

Love of Blake Snow. But high walk rate, I mean, lowest ERA. It's extremes on both sides. Far be it for me to give any fashion advice. But don't love the single digit on a pitcher. Do you agree? Not really. Okay.

That's a small piece of Blake Snell contribution there. Yeah, I don't mind the single digit. I mean, also when you think of the Phillies. Have it been a number seven who led the county in innings pitched? Of course. From the Phillies perspective, I mean, that deal, gave nola it's like also you know blake's trying to sure you'd want to be paid higher than that how does that create dynamics within the phillies clubhouse like an a j devante situation

yep they don't have to be on the field at the same time they don't have to share the ball sure sure i'm still on the turns taking the ball i'm still on board with bow that if we had to pick one in two years davontay cover cover boy for today's uh show that's right along with mike garifolo shout out to mike g the best in the business yeah boy all right well shout out to Josh Tolentino. Josh, thank you so much for spending some time

with us here in the studios. We can all follow you at JCT Sports on Twitter. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Pleasure to be here. And read them at The Inquirer for all of us here at P.HLY

for Julia and Zach and Josh, we thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Back tomorrow. Another guest tomorrow, I believe Les Bowen is going to be joining us in studio.

So we look forward to that. And we'll talk to you then. always we love you.