PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Is Jeremiah Trotter Jr. a true contender to start at LB for the Philadelphia Eagles?

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

Jeremiah Trotter Jr., the fifth-round rookie with deep Eagles pedigree, spent time working as a first-team linebacker during Thursday’s practice before leaving with cramps. At a shallow position for the Eagles, could Trotter Jr. make an early impact?With the Eagles having a walkthrough, Zach Berman and Bo Wulf take a step back from the first two days of practice and discuss some of the developments from the first two days, including Vic Fangio’s Bryce Huff comments and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And welcome to the P-HLY Eagles podcast on a high two Friday training camp edition. Eagles have a walkthrough, which means we have no practice to talk about from today, but still plenty to digest from the first two days of Eagles training camp. Bull Wolf, Zach Berman, in familiar confines, Zach, how you doing? Doing great. Happy to see you. See you. Yeah, it's a chance.

It's only been two days here, but it's been a chance to kind of reset. and take a step back and check in on some of the things we've seen in these two sessions and excited to be out there for a Saturday morning practice tomorrow. Yes, we should say that the Eagles do return to the practice field tomorrow morning. We do not have a show tomorrow morning, but we will talk about what happens there on Monday when we'll have two practices to talk about and SAC. And also on all-P-H-L-Y.com, you will have complete coverage of tomorrow's practice.

So we look forward to that. Make sure that everybody is a die-hard so that they can read all of that good stuff. For today's show, Zach, we have a nice little marriage of the Tick-Zack-Bow formula with actual football stuff to talk about. So rather than NFL around the league miscellaneous and the three other categories of convince me, predict, and would you rather, we have offense, defense, and miscellaneous for the rubric today.

Thank you for putting it together. Absolutely. I like this device. advice. I like how you don't know what the questions are going to be. So it provides some spontaneous conversation. But I do, I will say, you know, I was, I hadn't had the lovely day yesterday getting to beat my, my new niece. What a, what an awesome experience that was. It was funny. I came back and the kids were in the playground. We were with some friends. I'm like, wow, you really seemed like you're in a really good mood. I'm like, yeah, I am. It was, it was fantastic. What a day. But on the

ride back, you know, I'm listening to a little, listening to a little sports. radio, figure out what happened at practice. And so, you know, it's like, I want to jump in because I have my own thoughts on the way that some of these things are portrayed. So we can talk about some of those things that happened yesterday. And a good job from you and Les covering those angles yesterday. Why don't we start, Zach, let's keep it football. Let's focus on the important stuff. Let's talk defense and how about convince me. Defense convinced me. So I do want to tell the audience today that instead of having it on my screen in a different tab and jumping tabs or our windows. What I did is I actually did the old-fashioned way and I wrote this down.

So I have a literal grid here. Okay. So defense convinced me. Okay. Convince me about Bryce Hull. We're combining the Vic Fangio Bryce Huff comments. So a lesson I spoke about it on yesterday's show. but for those who did not catch yesterday's show yet,

Vic Fangio said Bryce Huff has the ability to be a three-down player, like more than a situational player, a base down player. But he's not there yet. He can't do it today, basically. Convinced me, should the audience be worried about this, that their $17 million edge rusher is not at that point yet in the defense coordinator's eyes? Is there more nuance here?

What's the Bo Wolf take on Vic Fangio's comments? Because I have read online some concern about this. Yeah, I think there should be no concern here at all. The first thing is it is a nice refreshing bit of press conference content that we have a, you know, a Vic Fangio, crusty old man, and nothing to worry about. He can say whatever he wants. I think that's great. And it's nice to hear some honesty or whatever his version of honesty is.

But no, I don't think that this is a concern at all for several reasons. One, one of the conversations that I was hearing online and also just listening to the radio yesterday was like, oh, like all of us, the $17 million guy can't plan on first down. What a bust. Like, first of all, Bresuff is not getting paid for first and second half. Okay. if we even take it as truth that he might not be ready to play on rundowns under Vic Fangio, it doesn't matter. He is paid to sack the quarterback.

If he can rack up 14 sacks while playing 40% of the snaps, that's worth $17 million to the Eagles, right? Like that's what he's getting paid for. It's not the belief that what he's shown on third down with the Jets means that he can play on first and second down. It's the belief that what he's shown on third down with the Jets means, that with an increased role on third down, he can have that same level of efficiency at getting out for the quarterback.

So Bryce off will be judged by how good he is at getting out for the quarterback, not by what he does on first and second down. As for the actual complaint that he's not, you know, he's not there yet. I mean, they haven't even put pads on yet. It's been two days. Like run defense to me on the edge

is so much more about want to than anything else. And so the idea that Bryce Huff hasn't shown that want to, I don't necessarily believe that. And it's also, I think that's something that can be taught. Like a defensive tackle can get washed out of the play. A defensive end can get washed out of the play too. But I don't believe that Bryce Huff is going to be put in a position where he's going to really materially affect in a negative way.

the Eagles run defense. And if he is really bad at it, the Eagles have other options there. You know, like they could play Brandon Graham on first and second down more. Nolan Smith could be a factor there. Maybe Jalek's hunt could be a factor there. Maybe you play Milton Williams more on the outside, right? Like, I don't view this as a significant concern. But I did think that the conversation you and less had yesterday about, you know,

the delta between Bryce off and Hassan Reddick is significant. And Hassan Reddick did bring something to the table in that area. but as for like should my alarm bells be ringing because Vic Van Joe didn't gas up Bryce Huff as an 80% player? No, I am not worried about that. How about you? I think you framed it well. I would not be worried about his lack of experience or I don't want to say ability, but the unknown for him as a run defender or dropping in the coverage.

We've spoken about this, Hassan Redick's first year too. right? He's here to rush the quarterback. My question, my skepticism, the alarm bell in my head, has more, has less to do with the role or like the actions, I should say, and more to do with just the overall playing time in this sense. He's been a 450 snap player at most in his career. If you look at Hassan Redick snaps, Hassan Redick was 800 snaps, right? So you're looking at like a a 300 to 400 snap increase. How effective is he? There's one way to look at this, which is to say,

great point. Playing twice as much, he can be even better. There's another way of saying maybe he was playing twice as much because like he wasn't good enough to play ahead of whether it's Germain Johnson or, you know, you go on, on, on, on dumbless. Maybe he's best as that third or fourth, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that's situational rusher. So that's, that's, that's more my concern.

It's not whether he can do it. It's whether he is a top guy for you. And even beyond that, even if it's not about merit for the snaps, but it's about effectiveness. Like, is he, did the Jets believe that he was a player who's, what made him successful as a pass rusher would diminish over time? Like, is it a, you know, is it like a Jordan Davis, he wears down as the season goes on thing?

Gosh, what, yeah. Is it a, like his specific pass rush moves? diminishing their effectiveness, the more tackles see them. I don't know the answer to that. But I think you're right. The bigger concern is not in a larger sample, can he still, can he actually be on the field on first and second down? The question is, in a larger sample,

can he be as effective of a pass rusher as he was in the smaller sample? Yeah, well said. And that's really what I want to monitor because I do think in our conversations about Josh Sweat, you've framed it well, that maybe he was playing too many snaps last season. And maybe Josh Wett's most effective in kind of that, you know, 50 to 60 percent range as opposed to really pushing up to being one of your top guys. And Bryce Huff could be the same way.

And not that there's something wrong with that, but there's a difference. If you're paying a guy $17 million a year, right, you're expecting him to be more than your third pass rusher. You're expecting him to be more than a situational guy who's kind of, dependent on someone else getting the attention from the opposing offense or only playing in a reduced role. Yes, I know. I think if you're paying him $17 million because you have Jalen Carter under contract under his

rookie deal and he's the one who's taking the attention away from players, then if he can get you 13, 14 sacks as the third best pass rush around the team, then I think that's a fine investment. But in speaking about Josh Sweat, because on, it's like similar to this topic, I asked the Vic Fangio what indicators he's seeking to see if Josh Sweat can return to the 2022 form. And he said, movement number one, probably movement number one, two and three, and how he's picking up what he's doing and how long he can go, which is kind of what we're talking about here. He said, you know his conditioning, but it'll be easy to tell because you know what the guy was doing and can he still do it. So yeah, I think that's a difference. There's a Bryce Huff is like a young 26 because he hasn't played a ton of snaps. Josh Sweat is like a very old 27, right?

Sure. Just the wear and tear on his body, the injuries he's been through, all that stuff. And by the end of last season, he was the movement. He was moving like an old guy. But if both guys profile better as number two's. Yeah. Right? Then that is a concern because Hassan Reddick was like a bona fide one.

from my perspective. Hassan Reddick had the, he was the player who the opposing offenses were gearing toward. Like if you didn't know where number seven was, it was a problem. Will teams have that same approach for number zero? Is zero technically like do you say number zero? Do you say zero, right? Good question. I think number zero is fine.

Yeah, yeah, number zero. So are our teams going to have that same approach? because I do think if the in I've I've said this on this show. I've said this in some other interviews I've done. If you're looking for the reason for concern about the Eagles in 2024, I would say if their pass rush is not good enough, then it affects everything else. Yeah, no doubt.

And it's also, you know, I'm wary of having this conversation every single episode, especially when it's the summer and we're not going to see this play out until the middle of the season. But the snap count stuff, like, it's going to be on my radar all year long, and it's a really serious thing because I think that played a real role in the defense's collapse at the end of last season. And they're leaning even more into playing more snaps for their best players. So I don't know how it's going to play out.

It's not the way that I would go about things if I was in charge. That doesn't mean anything. Vic Banjo has been, you know, has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. You have a good radar. But it is, it is. And it's, it's so curious because we know it's something that the Eagles fundamentally believe in from Jeffrey Lurie and Howie Roseman on down. And so for them to make this concession, I'm very, very curious about how it all plays out. And to butcher stuff to that point, Jordan Davis did say yesterday, if Vic Fangio had his way,

Fangio would have these guys play 10 snaps in a row. Now, was he talking about in-game or during practice? Mike. Oh, good question. I was confused about that. Good question there. You know, that's a technicality that I need to kind of clarify. But he said,

Siriani has something to say about it, so we only go six in a row. Right. But his point was like conditioning is really important. And you brought up the observation after Mondays, I say Monday because it was the start of the practice week after Thursdays. I'm sorry, after Wednesday's show, the days blended. First practice was Wednesday.

after Wednesday show, because today does seem like a Saturday because they're not practicing, that you saw like the first team offense kind of run on the field at one point, and they did this the other day. They did this yesterday as well. And really what they're doing, as Jordan Mila explained, is they're working on conditioning. It's all about conditioning. So they'll have their first team offense run on to the field against like the third team defense for a play. right and then they'll have like jordan davis jel and carter run on with the 13 defense at one point

for a play that's this is all about conditioning well set all right let's you know what let's let's stay on defense let's go defense would you rather defense would you rather defense would you rather okay so as as we mentioned the first two days here we have seen keely wringo and isaiah rogers as the top corners on the outside. Quinyan Mitchell has been mixing in in the slot. Now, in theory, this could be a way for Quinyan Mitchell to play early, especially if Cooper the Gene takes some time. But would you rather Quinean Mitchell start his career in the slot so you can get him

on the field earlier, let's say, or focus on the outside where you're expecting him to be, like, do you want to put too much on his plate, or I shouldn't say too much, a lot on his plate so he can play earlier, or do you want to. him to focus on where he's going to be long term. I don't want to dodge the question, but I feel like my answer is whatever he earns. If he is your best option, if he looks like a better option in the slot on day one or week one than Avanti Maddox or then Cooper DeGine, if he's back healthy, then yeah, he should be on the field helping the defense that way.

But I don't think that they need to prioritize his long-term development week one, but I also think they should be eyes wide open. about, you know, cornerback and I was talking with Sam Lynch, you made this point, but cornerback is a developmental position, right? Like, it's not a position where necessarily guys hit the ground running year one, and there can be some, you know, false positives or false negatives. Like a lot of the best corners in the league, you look at who the pro bowlers are, not all of them work very good right away.

And it's different than some other positions that way. We talk about defensive tackle this way. a lot how like there's there's more of a like a natural progression year to year. Cornerback is not necessarily like that. It can be sort of up and down and bouncy, but, you know, look at, look at Rasul Douglas for instance, right? Like this is a guy who had to go to four different places before he eventually found out the best situation for him and turned into a Pro Bowl caliber player. I think Queenie Mitchell, I think Eagles would love it if he's ready to go week one and

and looks better than Keely Ringo and Isaiah Rogers or Avanti Maddox in the slot. But I don't think that we need to judge Quine and Mitchell's like the effectiveness of the pick necessarily by how much he's on the field early in the season. And I don't, I actually don't think that it's the same as like Sidney Brown last year where, you know, I was pounding the table for Sydney Brown should be on the field week one because it's going to better serve the team in December for him to get those reps.

I think the Eagles are in a position where they don't have to do that with Quine and Mitchell because they have real talented depth on the outside. If we were talking about Quinnia Mitchell was fighting off James Bradbury from the end of last year and Eli Ricks, then yeah, I think the reps should go to Quine and Mitchell in service of making the team best in December. But I think because they have other guys who are also young, I don't think that they necessarily have to force it. A few things to build off what you just said. The outstanding inquiry reporter E.J. Smith asked Vic Fangio how he's seen Quinehan-Mitchell adjust to the slot. I mean, let's take it easy on the descriptor there. You mean, well, Vic Fangio is the defense coordinator. That's true, yes.

Yeah, so you can calling Vic Fangio the defense. That is an accurate description. That's accurate, yes. Oh, you're referring to the outstanding reporter of E.J. Smith, he is outstanding. So, yeah, so, Coyon Mitchell. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Talented.

This is from Vic Fangio. He's a talented guy. He's smart, has a good football field. All that is really more than I thought he had just from watching the college tape. And then they think he can move around. So the follow up was, what could you tell them that made you think he could play inside? Big Fangio said, we just tried it. We just put him in there.

And he tried it. And he looked fine. So this is a spot where they're evaluating and it's worth pointing out because when the He was drafted him. I think it was Howie. He said they're not going to put too much on his plate early. They're not going to have him focus on multiple spots. Vic Fangio was also asked his philosophy about playing young players.

And he said that if you look at his history, he's always played young players. Or he's never had a problem playing rookies so long as they're good enough. He's not just going to put a rookie in there because they're a rookie, but he's going to put the guys in there who have the best chance of helping the team. He said he's been on an expansion team in two places. Carolina and Houston are the two places. He said they just kind of threw the rookies out there to see what they got. His quote was, we've got more serious business here. If they're worthy of playing, they will play.

Well said. All right. You know what? Let's just close it out on the defense. Let's go defense predict. Let's sweep it up. Defense predict. Jeremiah Trotter, who he left practice yesterday.

Yes, what's the update here? Left practice yesterday. Now, I said he left on a cart, which is technically true. It was also the end of practice. He went down on the last play of practice. Training staff was massaging his leg. He went onto the cart, and they got carted him inside. The Feldoff Inquirer reported, Jeff McClain from the inquiry, he said it was just cramps.

So, presuming that's the case, we will likely see Jeremiah Trotter Jr. back out tomorrow nothing to be concerned about but he he was on the field holding uh you know holding his his his his leg there so the question is and before this happened jeremiah trotter junior even mixed in uh with the first team for a few snaps so predict jeremiah trotter juniors role uh and how much he'll factor in to the eagles this year as a rookie here's my here's my bold take okay i'm ready for this this might be a drop or i a vod presuming health Jeremiah Trotter takes more defensive snaps

as a linebacker as an inside linebacker for the Eagles than Zach Bond does this season or he is the linebacker by the end of the season. I think this is a little bit more of a Zach Bond take than a Jeremiah Trader take

although I did on day one I was watching Trotter in the middle and there were two plays where it did seem like he diagnose things very quickly on run plays. He's small. There's no doubt about that. He, you know, he stands out in how small he is.

But, well, that's relative. Yeah, on the field relative to the other monsters of the world around him. I'm very skeptical of the Zach Bond thing. I know that he is,

you know, probably a little bit ahead in the pecking order for who's going to be the starter alongside Devin White. Zach Bond, was a third round pick with the same organization the entire time. The defensive coordinator who drafted him then became the head coach. It was the same defensive scheme. So this is an organization that was incentivized to get the most out of him.

They never made him a full-time inside linebacker. He never earned him. Okay. The idea that he's going to come here in a new defense and be starting caliber, he made a nice play on Wednesday that I saw. It was the best play that I saw a linebacker make in coverage. Maybe he has that skill set in him, and it's just something that hasn't shown up,

whether for opportunity or whatever, maybe this defense just happens to be better for him. But I think it is much more likely that a fifth round pick. Fifth round pick is not a huge pick, but a fifth round pick turns out to be better than a guy who has four years of experience. not having done this. And I think that it's possible that they add another linebacker at some point this season.

But I'm pretty skeptical on Zach Bonn playing that role. It's almost like he's sort of set up as like the guy who is to be cleared. But I actually, as small as he is, I think Trotter, I would think that Vic Fangio would appreciate a guy who's in the right place. And if he can prove that he's going to be in the right place, then maybe that's enough. And why Trotter over, over, um, a Nicopa Dean? I don't know that it will be over Nikobe Dean. Okay.

I just think it will be over Zach Bonn. Okay. And so, and it's, it's a bit of, this is a bit bold. It's a bit, you know, going on a limb. But, I mean, the Kobe, there's the injury history. It's obvious that Vic Van Joe doesn't love Nicopa Dean for whatever reason. I think it's more, if you're asking me right now, who's going to play the most snaps, at linebacker, I would guess Devin White and Kobe Dean at the top.

But I think I would rather bet on Trotter than Zach Bonn. Now, I should say when Vic Vanjo was asked about the linebackers yesterday, once again, Zach Bonn was the first name that he mentioned. So it's the association. I believe Vic Vanjo likes Zach Bonn. I think that he's going to see it play out and be like, okay, maybe I was wrong. That's kind of how I see it playing out. Zach Bond is the starter for the first three weeks of the season.

You're getting, you know, a Nicholas Morrill level of competency. Okay, let's see what the, let's see what the kids got. Quick, Devin White question. So you wake up one morning in Brazil this summer or Julia wakes up one morning in London this summer. And you get a text. The three, you know, it's a group text. You mean Julia? Julia, me.

And I send it. And I renamed it. And I renamed the, so instead of seeing BW, or I'm sorry, instead of seeing J.H. And ZB in the top, it's renamed to accountability. Okay. And what comes in in the text is just a picture of an empty glass. What is your reaction that day? I mean, I'm probably, probably throwing my phone off the balcony.

me. So Devin White this summer texted Joan Hertz and AJ Brown, and he named it motivation, and he put an empty glass in there. And he said, they're going to be filling that glass with drops every day. One, you know, drop, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. And fill that up. And they're going to fill that glass up. And, yeah, Devin White has, has, has, look, I'm, I'm all in on the Devin.

white personality. This is a guy who has the he has the it factor. He's speaking. He's speaking my language. All of a sudden, this man counts too much. He's speaking my language. But yeah, that is, I might send a picture of a class. If we are having bad shows, put some beer in that class. Well, no, no, no. This is all about filling it up the,

if we have two shows that aren't going well or our numbers aren't where I want them to be. You guys are going to wake up at 515 one morning with just a picture of a glass. And I'm going to say, we need to fill this glass up. Yes. And what would you fill that glass up with, Zach? Oh, terrific transition right there. I'll tell you what I might fill it up with Zach.

I might fill it up with some ice cold Miller light. Because when you are trying to be accountable, you still want to be stuck in the back. A lot has changed over the years, but one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. Another thing that hasn't changed is that it remains less filling. So what is the best thing about the original light beer? Miller Light sparked this debate all the way back in 1975, and we still haven't settled it. Miller Light keeps it simple, undebatable quality, great taste, and only 96 calories. So if you're the kind of guy who's trying to get on the field, make your team as good as it can be,

but you still want to suck them back? Well, how about 96 calories? That'll do it for you. Miller Light is the beer that's true. trips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. A light beer that tastes like beer, less filling, and only 96 calories, the original light beer since 1975. You don't have to choose what's best.

Miller Light has great taste and is less filling. Tastes like Miller Time to get Miller Lite delivered right to your door. Visit millerlight.com slash p.hlyly birds. Or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces, fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer. Driving around the Philadelphia area often and when I see a True Mark financial credit union, I get excited because it is a Philadelphia company. They're all over the place. And if you're driving around and maybe you need a few bucks or a few extra bucks, what you can think about is your home equity line of credit, Helo.

Or am I pronouncing that correctly? He lock. He lock. Home equity line of credit, H-E-L-O-C, is how I like to call it. It allows homeowners to borrow against home equity with a variable interest rate. Preserve your savings and get access to funds as needed for big renovations, education expenses, or emergency. Saving up for if you use the True Mark financials budgeting tools to save up for special purchases, you can get a limited edition merchandise. Regular contributions accumulate overtime.

the reef saving goals effectively. If you transfer as little as $5 a week, it could give you $260 more than enough to buy you, I don't know, a Zach Bond, Kelly Green Jersey. Maybe not the best long-term investment. Maybe a Jeremiah Shrider Jr. would be a better investment. True Mark Financial is a federally,

is federally insured by the NCUA, and it's an equal opportunity lender. For more information, visit trumark.com slash p.hly. All right, Zach, let's mix it up with a miscellaneous predict. Miscellaneous predict. Okay. So this one here is the season finale of Hard Knocks is coming up. Oh, I'm sorry, the season finale of Hard Knocks off seasons coming up.

I think they're going to take neighbors. Yeah, yeah. It's like watching Titanic, right? You kind of know what's happening at the end. Oh, seriously. Yeah. Or Oppenheimer, right? You know, you know that.

too. So in that case, well, the hard knocks for the training camp, Chicago Bears, starts up soon. And then during the season, it'll be hard knocks in season, which they follow around a division. It's going to be the AFC North this year. So predict, because it certainly seems like NFL teams are not going to be able to avoid this. predict what do you think the eagles would be chosen for and which would you want to see them chosen for well i mean i would put all my turkeys on want i would want to watch the offseason one that would be a hundred i mean that would absolutely be the best one no doubt about it i don't think that will ever happen um i think the most i mean the eagles are absolutely uh an organization that does not want to be featured in Hard Knocks.

And so if they agree to the Amazon all or nothing a few years ago, but yeah. Yeah. And so I would imagine that if they're going to be pushed into one, it's going to be just the NFC East is the in-season one. And I feel like the in-season one is one where there's less to hide. Sure. Because it's all after the fact of, you know, like there's no game planning stuff. And I think that's, I think that that's easily the most likely.

Plus, we've, you know, they did the all or nothing. So we've seen them do that before. Yeah. Look, I am in favor of as much behind the scenes access as we can see. By the way, the Eagles website did a really good job. They have something up from the offseason on, you know, Sequin Barkley, Cam Jergens. Kind of behind the scenes on both. They went to Beatrice, Nebraska for Cam Jergens.

You see Seyquan Barkley arriving at the team facility for the first time. You see him assembling a bike, actually, for his. daughter in their new home. Did a good job assembling a bike. I did not know Sequin was once a skater, biker type back when he was like nine, 10, 11 years old. He used to, he was talking about that, but did a good job assembling the bike. And Sequin's daughter, great appearance.

Well, yeah, she loves Disney princesses. It was a Disney princess bike. And Sequin asked for her favorite Disney princess. And I give her credit. I mean, this is a decisive young, this is a decisive girl. Like she, she knew right away. She's a Rapunzel person. Rapunzel, interesting.

Yeah, she likes the hair. So anyways, I bring that up because anytime they can get the cameras behind the scenes, I would love to see it. I did want to just add because obviously we don't need to keep talking about the Giants Hardknocks. But my- takeaways from the last episode? Yeah, I mean, I complimented Brandon Brown last week. The guy who stole the show for me this week was without a doubt Joe Shane's son.

I mean, that's a guy right there who, you know, Shane asks him what he should do. Go get to Jan Daniel. The answer is, you're going to get this job once. Go for it, right? I mean, there's, you know, there's a guy who, you know, go bold or go home, right? So, yeah, yeah, give credit to that. I find the, I find the, the Mara of it all very, like. He guy just like sort of Mr. Magoo keeps wandering into the office and it's like telling Joe Shane that he doesn't really like what he's doing.

I mean, like I've defended John Mara before. John Mara like he, and we've said this about Jeffrey Lurie, but John Mara lives this. Like this is, this is his job. This is his life. Like he, there's there's no other like side gig or you know, or this is not like just a passion project on the side. This is like the Mara family life is the New York Giants. He is. A Republican Party politics also, but.

I don't know his political persuasions, actually. But yeah, he is a passion about it. By the way, what did you think, too, of our old friend Mike Rowe? I meant to bring him up last time. I have enjoyed Mike Rowe's cameos throughout the season. He brings a little bit of a different energy to what the Giants have going on. I like the micro stuff. I got to say, and I'm a huge Marvin Harrison Jr. guy.

Maybe it's the Philly part of it. Maybe it's the Syracuse part of it. His dad with Syracuse, right? But, man, Mike Roe had conviction about Malik neighbors right away. It goes in there and tells John Merritt. That's the guy he wants. Now, this is a good one where, like, everything you see has been approved by the Giants, right? And so if he had said Marvin Harrison, they wouldn't have shown that.

There's presumably there's somebody else in the building who gave that answer. so it's nice that that grow said neighbors but i think the larger point on that is everything you see has been approved by the giants and so all the floundering of joe shane like they're throwing they're keeping that out there that goes to my point of like if the giants have a bad season and sayquan is really good he gone yeah yeah uh you know i i heard mike i i heard my friend our friend mike darrowa follow on anthony's show this week uh and Anthony brought up hard knocks and, you know, Mike was kind of defending the way the Giants came across in it. But he said that, you know, I don't know if he said this or if I heard this elsewhere, I might be conflating conversations,

but that the Giants want to light a fire under Daniel Jones. Like that's kind of part of because they were very transparent about wanting to go up and get a quarterback in that. Yeah. And then Brian Dable. They very much wanted to replace him. Exactly. So curious to see that. I always think we talk about why they don't like J.J. McCarthy.

good point yeah that's a good point something to think about yeah all right how about offense would you rather

offense would you rather okay so this kind of ties into what I was saying when I I did this after watching

the Eagles video of Cam Juergens or Sequin Barkley would you rather for the Eagles Cam Juergens being great at center

this year or Sequin Berkeley being great at running back this year. Which one is more important for the team? I think Cam Juergens being great at center is probably more important, although it's hard to imagine. From like the long term perspective? No, it's hard to imagine Sequin Berkeley being great at running back without the Eagles getting really good offensive line play. Well, so what if like either, I don't want to say if Sequin shot, right? Or like if he's if he's not the same player,

but if Sequin looks like he's he's kind of on a downward trend or if he's injury prone, right? Or if Cam Juergens is inconsistent at center, which one would set them back more? And they have more depth at center in theory than they have at running back. There's more invested in Sequin financially, certainly, in like in terms of role, short term. Yeah. So I guess which, and this is also an enter point to saying like Cam Juergens in practice yesterday, you can't really tell much from a blocking perspective when they don't have had the pads on. But they were pulling.

They were, they were doing some plays with him around where they're pulling. And he was, he can run downfield. I'm not saying he's Jason Kelsey, man, but like he's not, he's not a plotting center. I mean, he is, he's he can move downfield. So you might want to buy Cam Jergin stock right now if you're an Eagles fan. Yeah, I think I would lean towards Jergon in almost anyway. This question is framed because even though Sequin is getting paid more, it's a shorter term investment.

The position is generally less important. There are other ways to get replacement level play at running back, whereas if you have a really bad center, that's more likely to submarine you. In theory, Cam Juergens, they would like him to be here for the next decade. You know, nothing in the NFL is, you know, decade is kind of a ridiculous thing to say. But they'd like him to be the center for the next four, five years, I imagine. Sequin is probably not going to be here beyond next season.

So I think it's, I think the Eagles would feel much better about having nailed the Cam Juergens evaluation than they would having nailed the Seekwan Barclay price point. Let me ask us a better way. you never want to kind of talk about injuries, right? But if if one of them were to go down with a major injury in training camp, which would hinder the team more? The 2024 team? Yeah, this year, like if someone goes down in practice this week, which one hinders them more? Juergens would be worse. This is closer because I think they could find another running back.

Like, you know, what's it going to cost the six-ground pick to? trade for a starting caliber running back for another team. But they clearly had designs on Seguan being. Sure, it would change their plan on offense. And I think they could get by with Matt Hennessy at center, probably, right? Or my boy, Dylan McMahon. I think they would be okay. I'm open to the argument that maybe in 2024, they would be better off having Sequin

than Cam Jerkins, but I think big picture, you would still say, you would still say Cam. All right, not a great one. Just want to kind of bring up that kind of It's an interesting framing. And I thought the Eagles did a good job on that video. Okay. Let's go offense predict. Offense predict.

Who is wide receiver three this year? And kind of the peg here is that Paris Campbell was the wide receiver three on day one. John Ross was the wide receiver three on day two. I thought John Ross did not kind of have a great day or it was. it was as the wire would say it was a 40 degree day there's something that's been out about it they didn't really there there wasn't much like downfield maybe it was just because they didn't throw to him I didn't have John Ross in my notes other than then depth chart so okay uh but Anaya Smith again inconsistent right he had a drop

at one point Johnny Wilson hasn't really been a factory it's two days I get it it's two days but um you know I was listening to shield Kapati and EJ Smith on a podcast last night and uh And they were and, you know, Sheel brought up a great point. And I'm mentioning you by name, Sheel, okay? Is, is, he brought up a great point that it was like, I don't like these, these people who are like, it's only two days. Let's, let's wait to talk about it in, you know, after 10 practices. Like this is, this is what we're doing. Everyone who listens to this understands we're not making wholesale sweeping evaluations.

But this is kind of, this is, I mean, you can acknowledge that it's a small sample size. But yeah, you talk about what you've seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those rookies haven't done much through two days. Do you think wide receiver three is not on the roster? Who is it from elsewhere?

Or is the wide receiver three on the roster? I think there's a good chance that it's someone who's not on the roster. Yeah. Do you have a name for me? No, I don't. Okay. I'm sorry. Trade or free agent?

We've talked about some of the trade. I think a trade is much more likely than. Okay. Then signing Michael Thomas or something or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Noah Brown or somebody like that. But, you know, John Mechie.

I don't, in the same way that I'm Zach Bond skeptical, I'm even more Paris Campbell skeptical, but I think that he's the most likely week one answer of anybody on the roster. You know, he didn't look terrible on Wednesday, and Jalen Hertz was willing to throw him the ball, which honestly is probably the most important thing here. I think they are obviously underwhelmed by what they have.

But I think if I was to guess, like, end of the season, if there's somebody who could actually, like, be a difference maker. Not a difference maker is even too strong, but somebody who could bring something to the table. I think I probably would still say Johnny Wilson, even though, you know, I haven't seen anything through two days. He looked okay in the summer. I haven't seen the juice that I've wanted to see from,

Aeneas Smith just in the way that he moves. But again, just two days. And, you know, John Ross is nice in theory. It would be a fun story if he could give you. I mean, honestly, like 90% of Kwez Watkins, what he gave you. Like, that would be a win just as a speed threat. But I think it's more likely that it's somebody who's not here. I would agree to.

And I still think I think trade is the way to go. I also think it's it's something that you probably want to do the middle of the summer as opposed to like a cut down thing. I don't think you want to be in a position where you're kind of introducing someone to an offense in week one. I think it's really important of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's really important for this offense to have a continuity and efficiency going into the season.

Okay. Well said. But if you wanted to drop in an ad at any point here, this might be a good time, just for anybody who's producing the show. And then, Zach, we can move on to... All right, why don't we do miscellaneous convince me? Miscellaneous convince me. Okay. Convince me is Inquire reporter E.J. Smith, right or wrong.

Bo, you have the floor. All right, Julia, why don't you play the drop just so we can inform the listeners? I've had a couple of times now where Bo is kind of sniped, like, swipe one of my takes. Oh, oh, tell me more. Wow. They might not have always been the best takes, but there were a couple times where I've been like, oh, that sounds familiar. Jeez, okay, so you just made both of those guys, though. I need them to know that. But you just made my, I mean, I would do another 30 minutes on that, quite honestly,

if we didn't have a practice today. Yeah, watch it, Po, he's calling you out. I love this. It's going to make him so, knowing him as we do, it's going to make him so angry when you listen to this, and I think he will listen to it, and that'll just, like, just me picturing that brings joy. So, so there you go. All right. A couple other things here.

Okay, so a few things, keeping in mind that this is still vacation, Bo. I'm feeling good. Got to meet a little baby yesterday. I'm feeling good. I'm glad we were able to give a little joy to Shield. That's nice. I know he could use that. What a tepid accusation from E.J. Smith, who should be, you know, buttoned up reporter for

the Philadelphia's paper of record, throws out an aspersion with absolutely no examples, no evidence. You might wonder why Shield didn't ask for examples. Obviously, he just wants to foment controversy. He's team content. No examples whatsoever. Absolutely outrageous. Where's the evidence?

and how egocentric do you have to be to think that, oh, somebody thought of something. I thought of that first. He stole that for me. Give me a break. I mean, E.J., is the Bo Wolf in the room with you right now? Like this boogeyman that you've created, give me a break. Like, pathetic.

Nonsense stuff. Do you have more? Or no, go ahead. I'm going to defend EJ here. Yeah, EJ's, he's in year six in the beat. He's, he's grinding here. He's working really hard. He's coming up.

He's at, he's beyond the point. Oh, Johnny wasn't a good catch. I saw that first. That's my thing. What are you talking about? We're watching the same thing. We're allowed to see a similar thing. He's, he's beyond the point where it's just kind of surface level.

Now he really kind of understands the team and the, the nuances of the team. And you come on and just kind of pilfer his opinion. Like, come on. What? Give one example. You see, what you should do is you should. No, no, I don't know if that's the case.

As a journalist, as someone who cares about the profession, who cares about ethics, character counts, okay? All men count, but none too much. If you were to criticize somebody or make such an accusation, wouldn't you, have evidence, wouldn't you be buttoned up? You can't just throw something out there without any corroboration? Also, for the crossover listeners will appreciate this reference. What I would do in that situation is I would say, you know, Bo, I was listening to a podcast

the other day. I don't want to say who said this, okay? But this is, this, this was the opinion. That's, if you listen to the show, Sheel said that I sometimes bring it up, but I don't want to mention it by name as because i i don't know if it's like uh whether it's of a text if it's on the record if it's another show if you know what what the rules of engagement are there but uh yeah i i i don't know which specific opinions j j is talking about a lion should not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep oh come on i jay's a lion i don't necessarily

feel like i should continue to go into this i shouldn't have in the first place but i mean show some evidence. It's ridiculous. I'm allowed to think of things myself. I can say E.J., having worked with Bo for four or five years, Bo is an astute observer practice, a great thinker of football. Bo has opinions that some of them are really good. Some of them he needs to be convinced more on. Like, Bo once was very critical of me thinking what I did about Gibral Peppers, who, by the way, signed a contract. What an odd victory lap for you to take. He who laughs, laughs, last, he who laughs, laughs, laughs loudest. I don't remember, I don't remember Sheila and I ever like saying Gibral Pepper sucks.

Oh, you guys were killing me about, I mean, Conan Corlis remembers this well. Yeah. And I do have some receipts on this. We don't need to. Okay. And how's Isaiah saying this career going? Give it time. Yeah, the, you saw the Giants free agency meetings.

who were their defensive cornered in me. They're like, how are you going to use Isaiah Simmons? This is something they were talking about. This was a big deal. We got an open spot on the bench. Yeah, yeah, you know, but in all, you know, E.J., you're the man. Bo is,

Bo does, I could say, Bo doesn't power to anyone's opinions. I can promise you that. Maybe, E.J., you're getting to be a really smart observer of football that you are, that you and Bo are. I don't remember that many sideline conversations with E.J. The only one I can think of is during training camp last year when he was trying to talk about how Nolan Smith was the best player on the team and better than Jailen Carter.

But typically what occurs is that I will bring something up to Bo and Bo will say, or DeShil, and they'll say, how did you have time to hear that or how did you have time to read that? So I don't know how many opinions Bo is parroting, but I love both you guys. I'm not going to pick sides in this one. I mean, I think E.J. needs a, you know, I know he went on a nice vacation. I think he needs another one. The guy's imagining things. He's losing it.

No. E.J. You have an open invitation to come on the show whenever you want to defend your honor. Just an example. Then I could at least address it. Ridiculous. All right. Let's do miscellaneous.

Would you rather? That way we can close with an actual football one in offense. Yeah. Miscellaneous, would you rather? So I believe, As we are speaking here, the Olympic opening ceremonies are going on. Shout out to our colleague Rich Hoffman. He is over there.

Shout out to, yeah, to our friend Alex, Alex, Alex, Coffee, Sister Sam Coffee on the U.S. soccer team. Got the stars yesterday. So, but you are a worldly sportsman. I would say you like your, you like your. He's talking about this with my brother yesterday. how what great timing it is for the newborn time to have like Olympic sports on at like four in the morning. It's going to be great for him.

So I was on my YouTube TV last night and they have the screen that comes up and they say, pick the sports you want to be alerted to in the Olympics. And I got to say, I'm not particularly worldly sports person. I mean, give me the basketball, right? I'm going to watch those basketball games. But I don't, I'm not big on Olympic sports. So the would you rather, I'm kind of taking liberties with this. What sports?

What sports do I and the audience need to follow in the Olympics this year? Great question. I find the basketball, soccer, the sports that have their own big things, don't care. Don't care about the Olympic. I will save that for another show. I don't care. I can watch the best basketball players in the world anytime I want. That is not what is interesting about the Olympics to me.

I think my favorite stuff of the Summer Olympics is probably the track. That stuff is awesome. And it's, you know, it's the whole allure of the Olympics is like, you know, the romanticism of these, whether it's new sports or not, but like you spend four years trying to crest at exactly the right moment. That payoff is awesome. Swimming is great too. Real quick. If I can interject, you're like skeptical of every institution. But here you have like one of the most corrupt institutions in the world.

I'm not defending the IOC. You're like romantic about the Olympics. Yeah. It's like the most corrupt institution in sports, it seems like. But I'm not defending the executive, Zach. That's a difference between you and me. I don't view things through the prism of who's the CEO. All right.

Proceed. I'm not getting into that. I mean, this is, that aspersion is, is, is, is, is, is, is Adonide. Um, yeah, uh, in terms of like, uh, niche stuff, I love, uh, love a team handball. Fantastic sport. I think I've said on the show before. Uh, I'd like in my, in my next job, I'd like to be the general manager of, uh, USA Olympic team handball. And I can just take off the, you know, the, uh, the, the, like, 4A college football,

college basketball players really put together a nice, uh, nice roster. Badminton is now I'm one of the great ping pong players in the world but the viewing experience of ping pong is not as good. Badminton much better. Beach volleyball, fantastic. That's a really good one. I'm sure you're all in on the Chase Budinger and the team volleyball storyline that's going on. Is he in it? He's on the USA Men's.

Oh, that's great. The indoor volleyball. I always enjoyed watching Chase. button to play. What am I forgetting? Swimming? Swimming is good. Yeah.

Swimming's good. I think track I like a little bit more. Gymnastics I don't get into quite as much as I would like to. But I do appreciate the pomp of it. But I think track is probably my, would be my number one. Okay. And then give me like beach volleyball, handball. Those are maybe, maybe rounds out my top three.

Okay. And is Paris a good host city? Is this going to be? Find out. You know, like the opening ceremonies. I know they're going on now, but they're on television tonight. I believe. I think I would imagine visually this is a really good thing.

The ceremonies here along the river. Is that correct? That is correct. Yes. They know they've been worried about the rain. They have like a huge number of policemen. Those are the things that I know about it. But yes, I haven't watched yet.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I like reading. But yeah, like these, like golf. Like I like watching golf. I don't really necessarily care too much about Olympic golf. You know, give me the, give me the sports that I don't otherwise watch. That's the appeal of the Olympics to me. And if I can ask you earnestly, because I know you've been to the Olympics,

is it one of those bucket list sporting things you have to go to? Or is it something you can, you know, not necessarily a need to experience in person? I mean, I had a fantastic time. I would hope that I will remember it for the rest of my life when I went in Beijing. No, but I hear, for instance, sometimes in like these big events, the city gets overtaken. You don't really get a chance to kind of like see the city. It depends how you experience it. Yeah.

It doesn't have to be that way. But yeah, it is very much a like a wild takeover just infrastructure-wise. how much it happens, no doubt. But yeah, I mean, if you have the means, you can make it happen, I would definitely recommend it. I'm going to cover one. I mean, but we'll see. Well, I don't know if all cities has a robust Olympic coverage, but you know, look, there's flag football in 2020. Maybe I'll be out there.

And it's L.A. I can go down there. Oh, that's great. You can breathe in the Sofi Stadium air. Well, I, is this. Yeah, SoFi Stadium is a part of it, actually. And I believe the basketball games will be played at the Intuit Dome, which I can't wait. When the Sixers, when the Eagles play in LA, I want to go to the Intuit Dome.

I've been reading amazing stuff about that arena. You're into it? I see what you said there. Zach probably knows Simone Biles' husband's name, but may not know Simone Biles. I know Simone Biles' husband's name is Jonathan Owens. I saw a good piece recently on him. I do know Simone Biles. There's a documentary on her on Netflix.

I have not watched it. But I don't watch gymnastics. That's not like a toxic masculinity thing. It's just I'm not into gymnastics. Okay. When we were younger, right, I know we're tied on time. When we were younger, I recall figure skating being a big. Well, no, I'm sorry, that's the Winter Olympics, right?

Correct. Yes. Usually the telltale sign is ice or snow. Okay, yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Sorry, I was trying to be conversational on the Olympics. That's okay. I can tell you what the three baseball trades that happen in the last 12 hours, okay? So I'm well versed on that.

Yeah. Good move by the Phillies today, getting off the Olympics. Yeah. All right. Let's talk offense. Offense convince me. Let's close with some real football talk. Offense convinced me.

Okay. So this is a big picture one. I was on Fox 29 last night. Flex. And, you know, you get the general question, like, what stood out to you at training camp? And my answer was how impressive J.1. Or how well Jailen Hertz has played through two days. So my, I'm convinced me on this.

What's the most important part about J.1. Hertz's training camp? And not what happened these two days this summer. Like, is it the efficiency? Is it the running ability that you want to see? Is it who he's involving in the offense? Like, like, what, what is, if you're doing an evaluation of Jalen Hertz, what's at the top of the list for you? Aside from stays healthy? Yeah, yeah.

That's the number one most important thing. Absolutely, yeah. And I don't imagine no playing games. So. I think if you're talking about like, just evaluating his performance every day, I think the most important thing is, is the ball coming out on time. Okay. because I think if that is happening, it means that he's seeing the full picture.

He's comfortable in the offense. And he's like the running stuff is great, but it's practice, right? Like I want to see that be a part of the offense. I was talking about this on Anthony's show this morning about how like it changes the ceiling of the offense so much if the eagles are embracing that and Jalen is doing that because not only does,

does his running ability make just the math of the passing game easier? It's also opening things up for Saquan Barclay. And if the defense is scared of Saquan Barclay, then all of a sudden the play action is open. Like that cascading effect of what his legs can do is so significant. But from just evaluating him as a thrower this summer, I think the most important thing is the ball coming out on time. And like with that a baseline level of, you know, completions, right?

Not just the ball's coming out and he's throwing it all over the play. but I don't think we, like, we have an expectation that he's going to be accurate and he's going to throw like a good ball, right? So as long as the ball is coming out on time and it's not A.J. Brown and Devante Smith only. And he's spreading it around a little bit. I think that's probably the most important indication that he is comfortable in the offense. I see threat level midnight here says turnovers. I mean, do you kind of throw that in there as well as that? something that can be overstated in training camp?

Is it an indicator of anything in training camp? I mean, it would be, it would not be great if he threw like 10 interceptions over the course of camp, but that's, that would be such an outlier. That's not usually the case, right? And so from a, this guy is already at a, you know, 300 level and you want to get them to 400, 500 level. I think the timing is the stuff that matters because a lot last season, the ball was not coming at on time.

And then, you know, you would see the, run around, run around, throw it away. Like, that's, that's not what you want to be seeing. Yeah, that's, it's all a good point. By the way, make sure that you are becoming a diehard. You can read Zach's review of practice tomorrow, all that good stuff, Les Bowen, all that good stuff. So, you know, before you leave today, make sure you do that.

Go ahead, Zach. Yeah, and then just, just the other thing that I would throw in there is, I thought a big issue with J-1 last year was, I thought there's the unscouted looks in the early games really kind of threw him off. And the Patriots game, the Vikings game, you saw him say that. And the way I don't want to frame it as reading defenses, because I don't know if that's the right way to put it, but the counterpunch. And maybe that's more of an offense thing than a Jamwin-Herts thing. So seeing the timing and the efficiency is important here in training camp, what I'm fascinated to see come the season is.

how is he reacting to the different defensive looks, right? But I do think that the Eagles are going to, you know, Nick Siriani likes to talk about the competitive advantage. The Eagles were fairly predictable last year. And I think they are going to be less predictable this year. And I think that's going to be advantageous for Jalen Hertz, particularly early in the season. I think you said it if like Eagles fans could hope for one thing for the offense this year. I think being a little bit less predictable might be one of those things.

I think that would go a long way. All set. All right. Good stuff, Zach. Good first week of camp. Look forward to finding out what happens tomorrow as the Eagles get back on the practice field. Get a little more clickety clack. And then we're back all next week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 2 p.m.

All week long. Interesting sort of schedule practice-wise next week. You've got a Monday and a Tuesday. And then they're off Wednesday and Friday with the night practice on Thursday night. So we will take it through all of that. But until then, stay tuned. Zach's Twitter feed is going to have you. Cover it as well.

And we'll have a video as well as we do each day, camp in 60 seconds, which I know people enjoyed seeing. So we will get that up as well. Yes. And if you want to know my thoughts on it, I guess just read the Inquirer because that's the only place that I read my information. I don't have eyes of my own or a brain of my own to decipher what I see in front of me. How about that parting shot? I'm just saying, I was excited when I heard that EJ took a shot.

Because I was like, yeah, let's hear it. I want to get it. But it's so, it dipped his toe in the water. So tepid, let's go. If you're going to hit me in the chin, hit me in the chin. But when all men count with you, but none too much, right? Well, on that note, that will do it for this episode of the P.H.O.E. Eagles podcast. Thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching back with you on Monday. And for all of us here. As always, we love you. You're all silly like the mayor.