PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Judge E.J. Smith presides over pressing questions facing Jalen Hurts & the Philadelphia Eagles

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

E.J. Smith of The Inquirer joins the PHLY Eagles Podcast to give his definitive take on a host of topics the guys disagree on. Would you rather have Jalen Hurts or C.J. Stroud? Is Jordan Davis still worth believing in as a star-caliber defensive tackle? Is Tyler Steen set in stone as the right guard? Is DeVante Parker history’s greatest villain? Join Zach Berman and Bo Wulf as they learn from the wise Mr. Smith. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

E.J. Smith of the Inquirer is here to adjudicate a bunch of things that Zach Berman and I disagree on from Jonathan Gannon's fitness to Josh Schwett versus Bryce Huff in 2024 and much more. Maybe we'll even get into peeing sitting down. Coming up next on the P. H.L.Y. Eagles podcast. A Tuesday, high noon, Bo Wolf. Zach Berman. And if you're watching live, you can see in the middle, the man of the hour, the judge himself. E.J. Smith of the inquiry. Jay, how you doing? I'm doing well. You know, I wish I had brought like a gavel or something. You know, I could have stopped like a party city. You know what I do? I have the priest robe from the Christian Ellis sermon.

That could have, we could have used that as a judge. Yeah. Yeah. I think what you wore is terrific. You're the best dressed one here. You have Beau and is Cape Cod casual today. This is not Cape Cod. It's a white shirt.

But no. Oh, my shirt. Yeah, this is this is a, this is a sharp dressed man right here. The shirt is actually. in a commercial and they're kind of making fun of it. And that's only made me more attached to the shirt. I think it's a good shirt. What's the commercial?

It's like, I don't know what brand it is, but they're talking with the shirt and it's like, I like the shirt. It's kind of like a cow, but flowers. You know what? I'm going for it. I don't know anybody who would take somebody making fun of their shirt as a sign that they need to wear it more. It's like made me entrenched.

I'm like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like, I like fresh off the barber's stool as well. Yeah, I was going to say I should have went with like the judgely mustache. instead of the beer today just for the show, but I don't think my wife would have been a big fan of that decision. Did they ask you about J-1 Hertz at the Barbersop today? My barbers actually don't speak very much English. Oh, okay.

Did you talk Euros? I know you've been watching a lot of Euros. I think they're more Copa America people. Which is, you know, kind of like Euros after dark. Yes, yes. But yeah, not a lot of soccer talk. So, yeah. Okay.

Well, we've got a lot to get into. Yeah. We're ready to do it. They asked you about Jonathan Gannon. They did not ask you. It surprisingly so. They did not ask you about John. I did.

You know, the Pew, Pue, That is a gift for you, you know, for you coming in. Thank you very much. You do a very good job at that. And that's why we love it, EJ. Okay. Yeah, the conceit of the episode is Zach and I have, you know, disagreements that range from small to larger.

And I'd like to just sort of, you know, you can be the neutral party here. You've seen what we've seen, you follow this team as close as we do. Let's sort of get your take on some of these things. I love it. Yeah. All right. Let's start with Josh's, is, I mean, Zach's boy, Josh, Josh Sweat.

This was his proposal. He thinks head to head, Josh Sweat will have a better year in 2024 than Bryce Huff, where to stand on the expectations for the projected edge rushers for the Eagles. So I'm going to side with bow on this one. I think you're going to utter that expression quite a bit today. No, I'm not. I was worried that that's what you're going to say when I said that. I think I'm going to try and be neutral objective here.

I might sit the fence on a couple of these, but I think when you evaluate the two players, I think with Josh Swett, the floor, I think, is quite lower. You know, the way last year ended is concerning. I think when you search for reasons that might have been the case, you have to start to wonder if the medical side of things is contributing to that at all. So I think when you look at Bryce Huff's projection, because both of these players are a projection. When you look at Bryce Huff, you're thinking more about is his efficiency going to take a

significant hit with a bigger role? I think I'd rather bet on a player that's been productive in a smaller role, you know, being somewhat at least productive, maybe not as efficient as he was with the Jets, but still productive in an expanded role. Whereas Josh Wett, I mean, there's just a lot that we don't know about whether or not he's going to be a player we saw in 2022 in the first half of 2023, or if he's going to continue in that downward trajectory you saw at the end of the 2020 season.

Look, that's fair. And honestly, I don't, I'm not pounding the table further for this one here. But I think... Is it kind of a thrill to get to see him pound the table in person? I love it. Like, I can feel like my dog jump up from the microphone.

I think there's, there's, I think Bryce off has a lot of upside. And certainly, I mean, we spent three weeks doing free agency shows where I talked about it. If they were to move on from Hassan Redick, Josh Swett would be, and I'm sorry,

Bryce off would be an ideal target. I think there is some recency bias to Josh Sweat's reputation right now because the back stretch of last season was bad. There's no doubt about it. The 17 games, though, from the middle of 2022 to the middle of 2023, a 17 game sample size there, he had 15 sacks in those 17 games, right? And that's a better stretch than almost any edge rusher in the NFL during that period.

And then you look at it, Bryce Huff's coming off a good year, 10-sack season. He's going to take an increase in snaps, but I think one thing that's kind of missing there is the increase is going to be more early down play. He was a designated pass rusher with the jet. So it's not, now, I think invariably he'll rush the quarterback more because teams do throw the ball on first and second down. But he was in obvious pass rush situations before. So this is to say that the 10 sacks that he had, which is really good.

I mean, Eagles had a stretch of five, six years where nobody had double-digit sacks. Bryce Huff did that as a designated pass-rush. year. But maybe the 10 sacks is like the type of player he is, whereas Josh Sweat has shown the type of his high watermark has been higher than Bryce Hoffs. And before last year, Bryce Huff, his seasons were like Josh Swet's last eight games there. Now, that said, obviously Josh Sweat played a lot of snaps, was not productive. And as Bo would point out, and Bo is absolutely correct about this, The leak told you what they thought about Josh Sweat. The reason Josh Swett took a pay cut is because presumably he wasn't going to get more than that this year.

But I think Josh Sweat going into a contract year with that type of talent, I would not be surprised if Josh Swet has more pass-rush production than Bryceoff. I actually think it's helpful to have your perspective on Josh Swet because I think you're right that the recency bias is probably a little bit too negative because he did totally disappear at the end of last season, and maybe he wasn't well-suited to play all of those snaps. But the simple truth is that the Eagles are telling you who they are expecting to have a better season. They're paying one guy $17 million and another guy $10 million.

And that means that it's not even particularly close in terms of their expectations. I would disagree there because it's motivated by, like, the open market in that case. Now, you can say Josh Sweat, essentially saw his his market value in that he took a pay cut presumably he understood what the league was going to pay him this year but the eagles were competing uh on an open market against bryce or against an open market for brys huff brice huff is younger and the intrigue of you know a player with upside always kind of commands more i just think i think that people when i say people i hate doing that i i think there's a lot of reasons

people? No, no, no. When you hear commentator, well, you hear reporters or commentators say, people say this. Like, who are these people that say that? Yeah, the straw man. Exactly. You know, I actually, a pet peeve of mine in press conferences is when someone's like, you know, what's your response to what this, you know, to like what people say about you. It's like, who are these people, you know? Are you saying it about me? Right. So I like Bryce Hoff, but all I'm telling the audience, I'm telling you and you, don't forget, about 15 sacks and 17 games that's hard to do number 19 don't forget about number 19 I'm not a fan it's like it's I feel like it's like the number changed from the NFL did a few years ago

I generally liked it and now that we're getting the edge rushers wearing wide receiver numbers it's just it's a little bit it's a good far I would say okay let's stick with the the defensive line and a player who I think on the flip side I am a little bit higher on than Zach is is is Milton Williams, the third defensive tackle for the Eagles. I think that the Eagles should be looking to extend Milton Williams. Zach believes there's a better chance that he's going to hit the open market. Partially, I think, because he thinks, I don't want to speak for you, but Milton Williams is motivated to get to the open market

as opposed to taking a discount. How do you see this playing out? Yeah, you know, I was looking for, like, recent examples of Eagles draft picks that have been semi-productive, as I would characterize Milton Williams. You know, he hasn't been, like, you know, a dominant player, but he has been productive for them. I feel like there aren't many examples of players like that that they've let walk out the door.

I mean, like, you know, like Russell Douglas, but he was a little bit less of a proven commodity than Milton Williams is at this point. I kind of, I'm a little bit more of fence-sitting on this one, but I'd lean toward agreeing that, like, they should probably get it done sooner rather than later. If he has a good year this year, then his price will go up. And then I might go back to Zach's side

where if the price gets too high, They can't justify having Jordan Davis, Shailen Carter, and Milton Williams long term. So I think it really is going to depend on how this year goes for him. And I do think it would be wise to probably get him into a longer term extension before he gets to this year. Because I think he has shown enough that he is, especially in an odd front, I think he has a role in this defense. He's 25 years old. This is a, to your point, like, it is not usually the Eagles business to let a homegrown ascending player get out the door. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't think the Eagles want. him to get out the door. I think this is a situation where it might be better business for Milton Williams to go somewhere else to get paid. And E.J.'s right. There's not a lot of precedent for this. The Eagles usually keep their best players at positions of value in-house. This isn't like talking about Miles Sanders or T.J. Edwards. I think the best example is probably Derek Burgess. And I know we're going back here. That's the best example. Derek Burgess. Derek Burgess was a third round pick, okay, who was a rotational starter. He started 11 games in 2004 for the Eagles.

He goes to Oakland and becomes like a focal point of their pass rush, has 16 sacks as a pro bowl or second team all pro. He left because the Eagles had high paid players in front of him, right? Javon Curse was under contract, right? And I look at this like Milton Williams, I agree he fits in the odd front. First off, we don't know how long that the Eagles are going to have this front,

number one. I mean, you would hope that Vic Fangio said it's his last job. There is a scenario where the Eagles clean house after this year. Sure. But regardless, even if he has that role, Jaywin Carter's the top guy. Okay. We know that. We'll see what happens with Jordan Davis, but Jordan Davis is someone

that the Eagles are heavily invested into here and we don't know what type of pass rushing opportunities Milton Williams is going to get. There's a chance that if Milton Williams hits the open market at that age with that skill set, he's one of the most desired defensive tackles. It's frankly like what Bryce Huff was with the Jets last year, where you have guys you spent draft capital on and there's this young ascending player who can have a bigger role elsewhere.

So yeah, I think the Eagles would like to keep him, but I think it behooves Milton Williams to hit the open market. It's almost like obviously they're very different defensive tackles. They might play the same position. They play it completely differently. But I feel like Milton Williams is almost a hedge against Jordan Davis in the sense that like they want to have multiple high end pass rushers at that position. And if you, like with what we've seen from Jordan Davis, you can't be certain that he's

going to be that player. I feel like Milton Williams kind of like increases your percentage chance that you have a running mate for Jalen Carter. Maybe you have to switch the way your front mechanics are. maybe you need to have a four three where you have the three techniques instead of a guy who's going to play the nose or maybe you just you know and we just take him off the field yeah or you just get another nose tackle I guess but you know that's part of the thing it's like it is a replaceable thing yeah it's a very easy thing to find but you know still I do think that it

it kind of increases a percentage chance the I guess it lowers the risk that in two years they've got Jalen Carter and nobody else on that interior because that becomes a problem no doubt about it go ahead I am now this is like really ambitious for from Milliams' camp, okay? But do you think there's a part of him that says, like, I could be Justin Madibouquet somewhere. You know, Justin Montbuque was a five and a half sack player two years ago. Kind of like an, you know, he's similarly this tweener D& tackle type.

He has a huge year in 2023, and he's a $20 million a year plus defensive tackle. Defense of tackles are getting paid huge on the open market. as I said Like I don't see why He has that kind of year He gets franchised Sure But I don't see why Milton Williams

Would take a discount Yeah I think you're right I do think you're right about that And you mentioned it Like I'm just looking at their draft history It is like anybody Who they drafted in the first like Three or Four rounds

Who played of any significance Who they let go after their rookie deal expired It's Nelson Agilor basically And even him they did end up bringing back For one year like, you know, Andre Dillard, I guess, if you want. Like, non-O-line D-line, yeah. I mean, you have to look at like a Miles Sanders type to see precedent for that.

Yeah. Now, let's, let's depart from the, you know, making Zach and I fight against each other and just sort of stick on the defensive tackle here. You mentioned Jordan Davis. What are your expectations for Jordan Davis? What are realistic expectations? It's really tough. I feel like at the beginning of last season, there were some high, high level reps from him as a pass rusher.

Yeah. And then it just sort of way. away. And I'll be honest with you, like the best shape of my life off-season storylines are always, you know, taken with a grain of salt. And I feel like we heard the same things from Jordan Davis last year around this time during training camp. I remember I wrote stories where I was like, what kind of things were you doing that, you know, because he talks about being in a better shape. And kind of gave us the same thing last year where it was like, I'm, you know, walking more, I'm more active, you know, I feel like. Yeah, I just feel like it's kind of the same exact thing we heard

last off season. So I didn't really buy, I do think he looks better. But I think that I think he's one of those guys where it's like, we'll know in November if it's actually the case. You know, I, and listen, I mean, again, he, like we've seen the flashes. The jump is to is to maintain that level. Yeah, to be consistent through the season. And I think maybe he's the type of guy who may be like, it's harder to maintain the way in the season than at the season. Some guys, I feel like are the other way where like during the season, it's hard to keep weight on. I know Lane Johnson has talked about that before. But I just think the hope is that as he does this more and more, he learns more about how to manage it. Because I do. I think that the upside is still very much there. You've seen it on the field.

In NFL games, we've seen him do really impressive things. So I think the upside's still there. But yeah, I'm kind of like still in a wait-and-see mode based off of the off season. I know people are maybe bullish. Sorry, I'm doing the people thing here. I know that there are some people that are bullish on him out based off of this off season. but, you know, in the way that he looks, but I still think, I think we're going to know in October or November if it's actually worked.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that he needs to be a difference-making pass rusher for them to feel satisfied with the player he is? You know what's funny is like, I think that there was a path where he is one of the five best run,

stuff, and knows tackles, and he's still like a justifiable first-round pick, especially when you base it off of like Kyle Hamilton's, the other option. Yeah. Like, I think that I would have, seen a pathway where they could have been happy. But let's be clear, like,

Howie Roseman came out and said, like, we think he can affect the pastor. They've kind of set the bar. Like, he has to affect the pastor to make that first round pick worthy. I think, like, he might have even gone so far as saying, like, if he's only playing on early downs, and that wasn't worth a first round pick.

We talked about how easy it is to find nose tackles, like the Linval Josephs of the world. You can find guys who can play. I mean, Marlon Joy Pulote, who is not a bad early down nose tackle. Like, you know, you can find those guys, you know, later in the draft. in free agency. It's not,

you don't use first round picks on those types of players typically. So even though I would see the value in a Vic Fangio scheme having a guy like Jordan Davis, even if he doesn't affect the passer, I think the Eagles have told you

what they want out of that investment. And the tie, the previous question, do you guys think it's either or for long term Milton Williams or Jordan Davis? Like, do you see a way that. Oh, no,

I don't think so. I think you could have both. I think again, like the, especially 2025, 2026, like the, right, you're going to get five years of Jordan Davis. Yeah,

I think like you, you kind of would actually like to have both of them because you do want to increase that likelihood that you have somebody next to Jalen Carter that can affect the quarterback. And especially if they're playing those odd fronts. You need at least three of those guys. You know, listen, there is real precedent for defensive

tackles taking that leap in year three. For whatever reason, that position often takes longer. I also think that as much as I would have framed it in the beginning that, you know, Jordan Davis has to turn into this past rusher in order for this pick to be successful, the way that things have

worked out retroactively now, if there is a way that Jordan Davis by by force of power and like the attention that he is bringing if he is that good of a run stuffer, if that is then opening things up for Jalen Carter to be to go from great to amazing, then maybe that sort of justifies the pick. So along with that, what are your expectations for Jalen Carter? Yeah, I mean, I think with him, he showed it in his rookie season. We talked about, you just mentioned, like sometimes it takes defensive tackle some time. It really didn't take him. him very much time. Now, he towed off toward the end of the season like the rest of the group. And maybe that is like, we're talking, you know, Josh Swett, Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter, everybody on the

defense fell off a cliff at the end of the last season. Maybe that's enough to just sort of wave it all away and be like, just chuck it up to everybody was dealing with whatever nonsense was going on on that side of the ball. Maybe. Maybe. It's an interesting point. I think it was still concerning that he hit the wall. Again, it's probably the type of thing you learn from it, you improve on it but yeah i think that i feel like i feel like this defense is going to be more centered on him this year and i feel like he's ready for that like i mean he interior interior past rushers are like the most valuable thing you can have you know probably on the deeps pushing the pocket well it's i mean that's the way to get to brady you know because brady can sense the

stuff coming from the edge but he wants to step up in the pocket you can get him up the middle then all of a sudden i was writing those stories like two or three years ago at least so i feel like I feel like I wasn't late to that, you know, interior pressure party. But still, I mean, I think that he is going to be the focal point of that front. And I think he's ready for it. I mean, he's incredibly talented. I think all of the things that we talked about this time last year with him, you know, like in terms of like they got an incredibly talented player and he just has to stay, you know,

in the, basically has to learn how to be a professional. And I mean, in terms of like his on-field product, it's been what we'd expect. So I do. I think that he's going to be the focal point. I think he's ready for it. Like I said, if I could sneak a Jill and Carter question in because we're both going there, yeah. To give you some behind the scenes here,

Bo and I, you know, we kind of talk about the shows. And when we talk about having you on, we said, how are we going to plan this? And we wanted to talk about current events, but I said,

I do want to kind of pick his brain on some of the debate or. No, on some of his, you know, stories that he's done in the past. And I very much believe in like the Atticus, Finch, you know,

you know someone better when you walk in their shoes. and of the three of us, you're the only one who's been in his home, who's seen, who has that type of perspective. So this is a long-winded way of saying, I kind of puffed you up there, but what perspective do you have on Jalen Carter having been down there in Florida, you know, in Florida, seeing where he grew up, seeing his family that informs you about the type of player in person that he is? Yeah, it's interesting, and I appreciate you saying that. It's interesting that you say that.

I feel like when I went down there, you know, you obviously, everybody knows the reputation that he comes with and the things that he did at Georgia, you know, the car accident, some of the decisions he made. So I was a little bit surprised when I went down there just by his personality, you know, and the people around him. You know, it's not quite what you would expect. You know, he's a, I mean, you guys know him now. He's a pretty soft-spoken guy, you know, kind of like mild mannered. I think obviously he turns that, flips a switch on the football field, and you hear stories about that. You know, obviously got into a fight with a teammate in practice at Georgia.

So I was a little bit surprised with his demeanor when I met him, and the people around him all have that similar demeanor. Very soft-spoken, very, you know, kind of like that southern hospitality, I would say. So, you know, and then when you talk to people who knew him as a kid, knew him growing up, they really do. I mean, I kind of opened my eyes to, like, the other side of his personality. And listen, like, I'm not excusing the decisions he made at Georgia. I think that's part of his story. And, like, the people around him would tell you, like, he needs to grow up from that. He needs to learn from that.

They acknowledge that he made mistakes. But, yeah, I guess what I left Apopka, Florida with is, like, the understanding that it's, like, a little bit more complex than, you know, I guess the basic understanding that I had going in is, like, you know, he is, I think the Eagles wanted him to, you know, learn how to become a pro, like I said earlier, learn how kind of just to grow up and become an adult. And, you know, he's 20, 21 years old. You know, I think that the infrastructure the Eagles had was good for him. Having a player like Fletcher Cox, having a guy like Brandon Graham around him was important.

Obviously, Fletcher Cox isn't there anymore. He's going to have to grow up fast now. But I do think that my, the biggest thing that I left to POPCO with was like, man, this is a little bit more complex than like what I expected to be coming down there. You know, there's layers to the story that I hope I kind of revealed in my story that go beyond just like this guy made a terrible mistake. in Georgia, you know, has some growing up to do. I think that they're, you know, again, at least at the very least, his personality kind of did surprise me. Well, said, good stuff.

You can, of course, read that story. If you can Google it and then you'll come across it. Yeah, you'll figure it out. You know, an inquire and find it. It's going to lead you there. And I don't know the direct link off the top of my head. I'm just betting on that search engine over the Inquirer search engine. No, no offense.

Yeah. All right. Zach had a game two of the softball season last night. We can go over that later in the show if you want. Something's a little bit heavy on me about that. But, you know, when you're playing softball, you know what you're doing. You're sucking them back because a lot has changed over the years. And one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light.

Another thing that hasn't changed is that it remains less filling. So what is the best thing about the original light beer? Well, good news is it doesn't matter. Great taste, less filling, less filling, great taste. How about both? Porcino Los Dose. Miller Light. Spark this debate in 1975, and we still haven't settled it,

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or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces, fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer. I'm going to tell you about Rite Aid's pharmacy service, but before I do, I got to say, we got a box of treats from Rite Aid here. It included the electrolyte water. Man, I was rolling yesterday with that electrolyte water from Rite Aid. It's not just typical bottle of water. It has the electrolytes in there. Actually, I was floating it around showing everybody.

Look, this is this is like enhanced water here. Zach was rolling everybody. You can get that exclusively at right aid. But also, you know, you have prescriptions and the prescriptions are running low and you're saying, oh man, what do I need to do? Well, if you're a my, if you have a My Pharmacy account at Right Aid, you don't have to worry because they will refill your prescriptions for you. You can enroll in automated courtesy refills.

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Just ask your local Rite Aid pharmacist to get started. Restrictions may apply. You can also manage your prescriptions with the Rite Aid Mobile App Transfer or refill your prescriptions, set up reminders, and enroll in notifications. Transfer your prescriptions to write aid today. Just go to writeaid.com slash transfer. Right at caring pharmacists are ready to answer your questions and help you stay healthy. Get your prescriptions along with anything at right aid you may need, including over-the-counter medicines,

household products, cosmetics, and more, and electrolyte water. Just ask your pharmacy for, ask your pharmacy team for details. Restrictions apply. It's going to be an influx of customers to write-aid asking for the Mali water. Maui water? No, it's, it's electrolyte water. So electrolytes are important, especially, you know, if you've got a workout going, you know, those electrolytes can, uh, electric. Make your role. Can electrolyte? You can electrocute you. They electrify your, uh, your self-dorne. E.J, I don't want to, uh, I don't want to speak for you, but I do believe you were a little hipper than, uh, than Zach and me. I don't know about that. I'm an old soul. I take pride in that. Yeah. I believe that. I have a, I have an, I have an, I'm an old. I have an, I'm an old. I'm an old. I have an, I have an, I'm an old. I'm an old person question for you. This is one that I just don't get this one. It's not for me. It's this new lingo.

But it's giving. Oh, yeah, I hate it. Yeah. Like, finish the sentence. I don't understand. No, that's that is the sentence. I know, but I, it's like TikTok. Yeah, like, like, uh, oh, that shirt. It's, it's, it's giving hippie cow. Or just, it's giving sometimes. It's like, it's giving my sister.

Like, you know, it's giving something vibes. Like, give me the laugh. I just, I just, I keep waiting for the sentence to be finished. My sister will say it's not giving what it needs to give. Well, that's a sentence, though. But it's not. That makes sense to me. It's almost. It's like barely a sentence.

It's not giving what it needs to do. You're describing something, like it's got the vibes of something else. And you say, it's giving so and so. It's giving Cape Cod vibes, right? No. No, just like, it's giving Cape Cod is how you would say. You would say it's giving Cape Cod. Oh, it's giving Cade.

Okay, that doesn't make sense to me. Yeah. Okay. This is, Cape Cod is colorful. That's the, oh, really? Yeah, that's, that's, that's Cape Cod. Like, I would say that's a Cape Cod color scheme. It's like blue, brown, and white.

Like, that's like what all the house is out there. You guys are nuts. I love Cape Cod. This is, like, positionless. You know what my, my understanding of Cape Cod is, honestly? And Bo's going to laugh when you're, what's that? The potato chips? No, the movie Summer Catch. Okay.

Do you remember that? He played a Freddie Prince, Jr. plays for the Phillies at the end of the movie. You know, Ken Griffey Jr. goes yard on him. spoiler but it's been like 15 years right now right but yeah that's that's that's my i've never been to cape cod but that's that's my understanding of cape cod is summer catch i'm a fan of cape cod i'm a fan of going north in the summer nice and cool you know smart yeah okay you're with me on it's giving yeah i'm not a fan of it's giving i'm not a fan of any of the ticot it's not for me yeah you know it doesn't have to i don't have to like it but uh i don't kids these days yeah these kids

Get off my porch. All right. Let's talk about another story that you have done because it rolls in here. A couple of Houston-based quarterbacks. You've spent some time

with Jalen Hertz's family. Sounds a little creepy. It's made me jealous. It's giving... Yes. It's giving... I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know what it's giving. Jalen Hertz. C.J. Stroud. Now, Zach is... on the side of the argument here that he would rather have Jill and Hertz moving forward than C.J. Stroud. I am right in thinking I would rather have C.J. Stroud. How about you? I'm going to go with Zach on this one. Really?

Yeah. I really am. Really? It's because, listen, you got to look at a sample size. Thank you. You know, because trajectory, you would definitely say C.J. Stroud. I mean, he's awesome. I'm not saying C.J. Shroud. It doesn't have the, you're not, you're not. binded by the early draft pick here. Good for you.

I like C. The draft pedigree, yeah. I like C.J. Stroud, but I saw what happened in 2022. Yeah, I was going to say, like, I feel like C.J. Stroud could very well be the 2022 Jalen Hertz, you know, career arc. He could struggle next season, and then they would be exactly where they're supposed to, where they'd be in the same spot. So I feel like when you're looking at body of work, I would take the quarterback that's been

to a Super Bowl that was MVP caliber in 2022. and you know we were talked to we were talking about the past rushers like just handwave 2023 you know you could very well say in 2024 that the eagles offense will look a lot better with a better play caller and more weapons than they had last season so again i think cedges trout's great but i think that when you look at what jalen hurts did in 22 i don't know it's like quarter you must be watching yeah well i got to go back there you know spend a lot of time but yeah no i i do feel like when you're looking at the full body of work from Jalen Hertz you can't get wrapped up in the one year from C.J. Stroud. I think that there's, you know, there's still plenty of time for him

to struggle or to continue to be as incredible as he was last season. So if you were giving me like, if I had to pay them both the same amount of money next year, I probably would go Jalen Hertz instead of C.J. Straub. Yeah. I, I've seen it. The high watermark for Jalen Hertz was an MVP player MVP caliber player. He's a better runner than C.J. Stroud is. C.J. Stroud, what I was really impressed with last year was he barely turned the ball over, right? I mean, his interception rate was among the best in the league,

whereas G. Owen Hertz, the interceptions were up. But a year prior, Gailen Hertz barely turned the ball over, right? I think in this league, a lot of it's about the counterpunch. And that's why sample size matters. teams now have an entire offseason to see CJ Stroud to see him function in that Texas offense, which they never did. Now, the Texans improved their skill position players, and there's often a jump from first year starting, the second year starting.

G. Allen Hertz is evidence of that, right? So we can expect C.J. Stroud to be better this year. But I can't get 20, 22 out of my mind. And I even think last year, J.O.N. should have played. better, but if that was a down year for Jayland, that that wasn't like a horrible year. Sure. And so I still would feel, I feel Jalen's a more, a safer bet based on the high watermark and based on the sample size.

Now, the one thing I would point out, though, is like, if you're worried about the floor for both of these quarterbacks, I do think that like there are more tangible concerns with where Jalen Hertz is right now. again, that's somewhat tied up in trajectory, but, you know, we're probably going to talk about running backs at some point and like, oh, Jalen doesn't throw it to running backs. And like, maybe that's a Jalen thing and not an offense, offensive system, you know, a mechanic of the offensive system. You know, the way that Jandle has handled pressure in his career, I do think there are some yellow flags that you could point to with Jalen that maybe you can't point to with C.J. Stroud at this point. But again, I'm like a little bit, I'm always wary of like flashing the pan quarterback. play. And I'm not saying

CJ Stroud is a flash from the pan. I think he's awesome. But like I do like to see it for a couple of years before I really get on board with somebody being like, you know, a Super Bowl caliber quarterback. That's fair. And, you know, there is history in the NFL of sort of false positives from rookie quarterbacks. That said,

listen, I mean, I have high expectations for Jalen Hertz. I think Jailen Hertz is a very good quarterback. I think Deegos are in good hands with him as the quarterback. But the one really elite year we we've seen from him was everything was set up for his success. I mean, he had an amazing offensive line. He had A.J. Brown and Devante Smith and Dallas got it all at the height of their powers.

He had the second year play caller. And the seasons when he hasn't had everything perfect, it's been good. You know, last year was good. C.J. Stroud did it as a rookie with an entirely new staff and like an array of weapons that did not look like it compared to the Eagles. and a defense that wasn't as good and an offensive line that wasn't as good. It was still a decent situation, though.

I mean, it was a good staff. It was a fine situation. They've got some talent on that team. They have a good front too, which is important. But they look a lot better now because of how he played. I feel like he lifted them a little bit more than maybe Jalen was part of this overall rise for that season. At the same time, you know, that Super Bowl game,

I've never seen a quarterback play a better game. Yeah, right. You know, so. I don't, I think it's, I think, I think, I think it's clearly CJ's Strat to me but I think this is a fair argument I've been wrong about quarterbacks in the past I was very much like bullish on the idea that Justin Fields would be an MVP candidate in the Eagles offense so did love Justin Fields still like he's like he's exactly my type of quarterback so I really like Tulsey like if you can do everything like Justin Fields can't even if you are

maybe bad I just again I'm I'm gonna like I'm always a traits guy with quarterbacks so yeah Justin Fields is like my krypton night I mean if you go back and you watch Justin Fields and J. Stroud at Ohio State, right? You would like Justin Fields' game against Clemson, you, you talk about how Jalen Hurts is Super Bowl. It's it's hard to play better. The way Justin Fields played in a losing effort against Clemson, it's like it's hard to play better.

Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about Kellyn Moore now. Zach has made the case that one way or another, Kellyn Moore is here for one year, essentially, that if he, if the Eagles don't have a good year on offense, they're cleaning house, and if they have a good year on offense,

he will get hired away. as a head coach. Do you think it is that binary? I don't think it's that binary. So if that's like the judge verdict is do I agree with Zach or Bo, I guess I'm on team Bo for this one, because I agree that there's, if you ask me to take like a percentage, I would say like maybe 60, 70% chance, because, you know, there's a 30% chance. The offense doesn't improve in a meaningful way. And the whole staff is different next year. And there's probably a 20, 30% chance that the offense improves significantly. And every, you know, every team that has a head coaching vacancy is going to look at Kalimor is somebody who's been, you know, on the upward trajectory of head coaching

candidacy for a while. You know, he's gotten looks for head coaching jobs. It's not like he'd be coming out of left field. And, you know, the hot offensive play callers are always in, in demand. So I do think it's probably more likely than not that he is here for one year. But I think that there's also always, you know, the possibility, like, you know, the Ben Johnson's of the world where it just doesn't work out for some reason. And there's a world where everything's kind of just just good enough where everybody kind of stays in place and you know i think there are scenarios where he stays but whether it's because things are you know maybe just a little bit better than they were they were last year right the team kind of you know wins 11 12 games and everything kind of the

status quo remains the same or a world where you know the off the openings just aren't very good i think it's going to be another competitive head coaching cycle next year with bill belichick mike rable you know some guys available so i think that there's a world where he doesn't get a job but i do think, to your point, Zach, I think that there's a real chance that he's not here next year because of those circumstances. Yeah, so first of all, I need to correct something. I said Justin Fields in a losing effort against Clemson, they beat Clemson in that game. I just want to make you. You were the only one that was going to get that right, though. That would have been on my conscience. All right. I'm sorry for crashing the show. I just can't stand. You got to do what you're going to do.

Kill more. Okay. The last two times Eagles made the Super Bowl, their offensive coordinator guy head coaching jobs. Okay. I'm not saying the Eagles are going to make the Super Bowl this year. But I think we can all agree if the Eagles don't have playoff success this year, then Nick Siriani's probably not back, right? I don't think it's quite that. I mean, if they go 15 and 2 and then losing the first round of the playoffs. I don't know. That still might be an interesting scenario. But I think there is middle ground where if they get beset by injuries and still semi overachieve based on that, you know, they're not going to clean house.

I also don't think there's a scenario where the Eagles are good this year and the offense isn't good. Okay? Or the offense is mediocre. I think if, so if the Eagles are good, presumably, and I know there's a lot of variables here, but presumably here's the young offensive coordinator who came in and fixed this offense that was stale. Okay. Here's this young offense coordinator that's interviewed for head coaching jobs. each of the last three off seasons is or each of the last four you know i mean the eagles interviewed him in

2021 i know that right the panthers interviewed him in 2023 uh this past year did the chargers interview him internally i think they did yeah uh i would need to see what job what interviews he got in in in 2022 i would imagine by the way and i could be wrong here and i and and e j's right that the bill bellichick shadow looms throughout the nmc east but if the eagles are are like a runaway NFC's winners and the Cowboys regress. Okay. Cowan Moore might be a candidate there. Like he's been well regarded in the past by Jerry Jones.

But beyond that, Kellamore, I hate to say fits the profile because this should be more nuanced than that. He's a young white guy? No. But he does. On the flip side, though, his name is not Mike. So that works against him.

I'm saying the, young offensive coordinator who calls plays, who works with quarterbacks, who's played in the league. Like there, there's a lot of ingredients there. And sure, he could be selective. But I also don't think the attachment to Phillies the same as like Ben Johnson in Detroit, right? I mean, Ben Johnson, part of that is like Dan Campbell's been really good to me. He wants to be selected. I think Kellan Moore, it's, they're renting Kellynne Moore.

And, you know, if the Eagles are really good and Kellyn still the offensive coordinator, then you can say this in Jess, but he's probably, he's probably like interviewing very poorly, right? Because I think the profile is there for him to be a head coach. And I think if the Eagles underachieve, their cleaning house and Jeffrey Lorry history, which would show, is probably bringing in an offensive-minded coach who wants his own OC. And even if, you know, I think Vic Fangio would have. more staying power here than Kellynne Moore. But yeah, I am looking at this like

Kellyn Moore's here that fix us and move on, or he doesn't fix this and he moves on. I have a hypothetical for you, and it's a total hypothetical. It's a little bit of a little silly season, especially it's June right now. I think I know where you're going, and my answer is this was in Tick Zach Bo a few weeks ago, but go on. So is there a world where Kellan Moore is in the building in

2025, but Nick Seriani's not in the building in 2025? Frank Reich, you know, Shane Steichen. You know, maybe this is, like you were talking about Jeffrey Lurie's experience and like how many times have Eagles lost their offensive coordinator and then gone, man, we really needed that guy in the building. Yeah, we talked about this one. Yeah, sorry. Sorry that I missed that show, yeah.

I'm sorry. I think it's great. I think it's pretty unlikely. Like, it would require, it would require like really silly antics on the side. sideline by Nick, like getting to Jeffrey Lurie and him tiring of that. And a real clash of personalities with Siriani and Hertz, I feel like. And if Hertz is like, plays at that 2022 level and has the juice and is like, I don't, I don't want this guy.

Maybe. I think that's the scenario. That's sort of the scenario. But I think it's pretty unlikely. I think to build off EJ, I think the scenario is if Jalen loves this offense. And Jalen's like, this is the reason why I'm back, right? And I don't want to learn a new offense next year. Yeah.

The continuity side of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, I think it's pretty far-fetched. Yeah. It's a pretty out there hypothetical, but I do think it's interesting. Okay.

By the way, it's, it's been, you know, that's, that's, that's been the conundrum in Dallas in the past with Jason Garrett and then with Kellyn Moore, right? And, uh, I mean, Kelm Moore was, was thrusted upon Mike McCarthy because Jared Jones did not want to lose him. Yeah. And then Mike McCarthy finally was like, I need, I need, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I want my offense here. Well, speaking of departed coordinators

or potentially departed coordinators, we had our what if show with Les yesterday and Les Bellas. And Zach made the case that maybe the Eagles should have even done the Gannon switch for Siriani. No, I did not say that. I did not say that. So let's get you on the record here. Now that Bill Belichick is unemployed,

do you agree with Zach that Jonathan Gannon is the biggest defensive genius working today? Did not say that either. I was going to say that's pretty far out there. Do you agree that he is not to blame in any way for the Super Bowl loss, that he did the best that he could with everything at his disposal? Now, right now, I feel like I've been transported to like several dinners, not to flex on you guys, but like several dinners I've had with you guys

where this inevitably comes up. And it's just like you can just sit back and listen to you guys debate Jonathan Gannon's culpability in the Super Bowl. Do you agree that the adjective positionless means that a player can play two different positions. This is, I feel like a couple's therapists right now. We might need one. Yes. I don't know if Jonathan Gannon is the greatest defensive mind in the NFL right now. I, I did not come prepared with a list of defensive minds in the NFL, but I mean, Todd Boles, I think is probably better than Jonathan Gannon, so there's one. Todd Bolls last year. Temple guy.

Yeah, got to get the temple shout out in there. So, yeah, I would say that Jonathan Gannon. Do you think Jonathan Gannon? I don't even know. So you know what I'm supposed to be saying about Jonathan. So here, look, I, I, I, if, if there's any phrase that I've said the most in the past 10 months on the show is we don't need to relitigate you. We don't need to relitigate Jonathan Gaddon. And somewhere in Istanbul, uh, Daniz is like pulling out his hair right now being like, Zach, you're an idiot. You're right. Look, all I'm saying is that Jonathan is that, is that, uh, the Eagles were number three in DVOA.

Oh, now you think DVOA matters in 2022. They set a franchise record in sacks. Okay, they rank number 12th and they rank number 12 and third down. Okay, they rank number eight in scoring defense. All right. They had an extraordinary amount of success. Jonathan Gannon was the defensive coordinator. When Jonathan Gannon left, the defense regressed, okay?

I don't think it's that one to one. It's not that one to one. But I'm saying that Jonathan Gannon was a successful defensive coordinator. Sure. Were they good in the second half the Super Bowl? No. There's no question about that. Okay. But I think that Philadelphia, people, right? I think the reputation for Jonathan Gannon is not consistent with reality, for a few reasons, because the way it ended, and I've been on record saying Jonathan Gannon should have been more forthcoming, okay, with the organization. Certainly the second half of the Super Bowl was bad. They needed more answers. They also lost to the best quarterback in. the NFL and I think the best quarterback in NFL history. Okay. Brady taking shots.

I will say that about my homes. Also, personality-wise, Jonathan Gannon and scheme-wise, Jonathan Gannon was not Jim Johnson. Jonathan Gannon was not Buddy Ryan. I think, I don't want to generalize, but I think this market has an appreciation for a certain style of defense. He's not Jim

Schwartz. Although, you know, the, when I look at the Jonathan Gannon era, that that 2000-22 defense is going to age really well in franchise history. Jonathan Gannon oversaw and, and both you guys can attest, if you speak to the defensive players who played for him,

they had a lot of respect for the way, you know, I mean, most of them. Yeah, Josh Sweat. Hassan Reddick, like you go out there. Not CJ Gardner Johnson. Not CJ Gardner Johnson, right? But I think that that's one that history will look, more favorably upon Jonathan Gannon and then well especially because you are writing the history book

i got to say Jonathan Gann does not have Jonathan Genn does not have a prominent spot in in what what is in what in the franchise fell off eagles uh the curated history of the birds which is available September 24th wherever books are sure thank you yes um yeah he was here for two of those 25 years we should start having we should have a we should have a graphic for the daily book plug i think I think that would be a good. But yeah, look, I am not going to, we don't need to relitigate the Jonathan Gannonara. I understand. But I also know, and I have a world of respect for Professor Selman.

But as I've told Professor Selman, it gets loud in it. It gets loud in an echo chamber. And, you know. He's really in your head. No. And sometimes that, you know, there's a lot of expressions I could use. the first one through the wall always gets hurt. That, you know, don't, that don't be afraid to stand up for what you believe in even if you're standing alone.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander? I don't think that applies here. That's an inside joke. But, yes, we don't need to relitigate Jonathan Gannett. Well, what we could relitigate, Zach, is how important sleep is. And you and I have this debate. Yes. you know, maybe some of us could be doing a better job, but at Sleep Healthy PA, Dr. Andrew Cohen will make sure that snoring and sleep apnea is not going to get in the way of you having the sleep that you deserve, the sleep that you need.

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And you might be taking your drive in and you might say, shoot, I forgot my sunglasses. Okay. And that's why it's always good to make sure you have a good pair of high quality sunglasses that don't cost a fortune. And you know they're high quality because people, you know, there's 300,000 five-star reviews. And you're fine. That was shady rays. Get ready for the season ahead with quality shades built the last hour. friends at Shady Rays have you covered with premium polarized shades that won't break the bank.

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I generally would not agree with that sentiment. Okay. This is making me nervous. E.J., do you agree that the people that say, what's the question both said before? What's good for the goose is? For the Goose is good for the GANDA. It's giving. It's giving.

It's giving. The people that say it's giving probably are not subscribing to traditional cable, okay, but they're subscribing to the streaming services. And the idea that something's on a streaming service as opposed to over the air cable, it's not a foreign concept of them. It's how they consume content. And I know that because I have two young kids who never put on the TV. I should not have opened this camera.

They are, but, but, uh, it was in my notes. I had to do it. They watch YouTube where you can watch P.H.O.I coverage every day on our YouTube channel. Uh, or they go onto apps where they, they watch it. Nobody's arguing against streaming, Zach. You literally are arguing against streaming. It's the bifurcation of all the different things that you're going to have to subscribe to in order to watch the things that you want to watch. Once again, we don't need to re-litigate this, but I think we are not, you are arguing something that nobody else is.

No, you are saying I am arguing for the billionaires, and that's, that's literally not. You said they need more money in their pocket. I've never once uttered that phrase. I do know Zach to be a big fan of capitalism, so this kind of tracks. All right. By the way, I have been, I don't know what's going on with this, but I keep getting people texting me to ask you about Navidia. What's going on with Navidia? What's going on with Navidia?

If you invested three years ago, you'd be sitting pretty hot right now. But not if you invested a week ago. Well, I mean, it's a volatile stock, but right, but I mean, they're up 6% today. I don't know what's going on here. they're up 6% today. That's, I mean, what's going off with Navidia is that if you invested in Navidia a few years ago, you're sitting pretty good right now. There's a twinkle in his eye.

Yeah, there is. There is. A couple things on offense I want to ask you about EJ. Tyler Steen, do you think that he is locked and loaded and ready to be the starting red card? I would put it like 85, 80%. Okay. I wouldn't put it 100. I mean, there's always that Andre Diller training camp.

scenario where he struggles. I mean, he struggled last year, so it's not a foregone conclusion that he's going to just they seem excited about it and they seem bullish on him. More bullish than even I expected, but this is the thing that they when you say that, what is it that makes it seem like they are bullish

on him? Just the fact that he's gotten all the reps at Red Guard? Yeah, and I do think Stoughton's praise of him. I don't know. I mean, I'd have to go back and listen to what Stoutland said about Andre Diller a couple years ago and if he was bullish on Andre Diller. Because that's a cautionary tale to me. It's like if you haven't seen this guy do it on the field yet, if he struggles in training camp, they do have, you know, you know, break in case of emergency options.

Like I was surprised to see, here are a couple things that like made me think, okay, they feel a little bit better than I thought. I know it sounds a little silly, but Trevor Keegan being on the left side and not the right to me was meaningful. It's like they're not loading up everything they can into right guard to try. Yeah, but the flip side to that is that Matt Hennessy is only playing at right guard and not playing at center. Yeah. That I do think Matt Hennessy is probably the breaking case of urgency, but I think Mackay Beckton is also Interesting there. I think the fact that Mackay Beckton's never played guard in his life and he's playing guard in The spring is also suggestive of what they think of title that was like my favorite thing about OTAs was like

Macai Bechtin like famously was like refusing to play yeah I'll play anywhere here And he's like I'll play anywhere for this team. I'll run through a wall for this team. I love it here That and the son redick stuff all happening all at the same time. It's like the jets must be with Eagles updates. But yeah, no, I do think that there are some like, you know, sliding doors for Tyler Steen, which is why I wouldn't say he's completely locked into it.

But I do think it would be reasonable to say he's a favorite. I thought Stoutland even talking about wanting to have the five guys, the five-wheel drive, as he put it, have those five guys, you know, create that chemistry with all those training camp reps. I think they're going to give him every chance to win the job. And it's just a matter of if he can do it. I don't know if you can do it. I mean, again, we haven't seen him.

I think the Eagles have seen a lot. I don't think I know. the Eagles have seen a lot more of him than we have. So I would say it's more likely than not, but I do think there are some options for him. I think if they were entrenched on their Tyler Steen stock, so to speak, they wouldn't have brought in Troy Falano. They wouldn't have brought in to other, I'm sorry,

they would not have brought in Fulaga. They would not have done as much work on first round, offense, on offense tackles who can play offensive guard as they did. I think if they were as entrenched on Tyler Steen as they say they are, Sue Opetta would not have started over him last year. Now, a player can get better. And I do think Tyler Steen is the favorite.

And I think barring Tyler Steen playing poorly this summer, Tyler Steen will start week one. But I don't think the Eagles went into this offseason saying Kyler Steins are right guard no matter what. Whereas they went into this offseason saying Cam Jurgens is are starting center no matter what. It's a good point. Yeah, I think you and I actually agree on this sec. I think to me it's it's more like 60, 65 turkeys interesting. I think they are I think they are very prepared for the possibility that he is not going to be their right card. Hmm. That's fair. Yeah. The Bexton thing is interesting to me. He's like,

I mean like as much as Stoughton talks about Brandon Brooks being the template and like wanting like a massive guard and the thing is like I don't remember I'm going to do the people thing again. I apologize. I've I've heard like, oh, well, Bechton is too tall. He's not the body type for guard. Landon Dickerson is literally like an inch shorter than Mackey Debton. Like, you know, they like that. And Brooks was pretty big too. Yeah, they like those supersized guards.

I think it makes sense. Yeah, maybe that's why Jaylor Hurts doesn't throw the ball over the middle of the field. Honestly, it would be a fair excuse, yeah. Also, Lane Johnson said, now the practices we were at when Kai Bechtin played left guard, but Lane Johnson said he played right guard next to him during an OTA period, correct? That's what Lane said if memory serves correct. I mean, Lane's who volunteered that he played guard next time, right? He did, yeah.

Running back number two. Yeah. This is when where Zach and I, I don't even know if it's a strong disagreement, but he's on the Will Shipley side. I'm on the Kenny Gainwell side, just the, you know, the, the bias of what's already there. Where do you stand? I'm on both side with this one.

I'm sorry, Zach. I would like to see it with Will Shipley first. I wouldn't I mean he had the one day in OTAs where he caught a lot of passes but I feel like that's a sequins role and whatever I feel like Kenny Gainwell is a misunderstood player in a sense because like you look at his college production you look at his body type and you think he's a third down back yeah he's really not he's been more of a short yardage like he's got decent vision he's like decent between the tackles for a guy his size

you know so I think that's what I see his role being and I think like there's more of a chance for him to take some snaps off of Sequan's plate on early downs, maybe. Like, you know, in situations where, like, it's like second and five or something like that. I do think you might see more of Kenny Gamwell in that scenario. Right. Because I think that Sequin is going to be on the field for third down. So I don't know. I think it's more about stylistically, I feel like he might fit a little bit more into a

complimentary role with Sequin. I'd be surprised if it's like, oh, it's third and seven, you know, third and, you know, medium, right? And it's like, let's take Sequin off the field. Exactly. Let's take, let's get Will Shipley on the field. You know, I just, I don't know. I would like to see it first with him, is what I would say. Okay. My counter here.

Please. Okay. Since 2008, can you name the Eagles three highest drafted running backs? Donald Pumfrey, Miles Sanders, and. Kenny Gamble, right? No, is a game, no. LaShawn McCoy. Shippley is ahead.

LaShawn McCoy, Mal Sanders, Will Shipley. Okay. Okay. It's a very minor distinction between Shipley and Pumfrey. let me continue here. Okay. Will Shipley, so in Kenny Gainwell's case, he's coming off his fewest yards per touch in his NFL career of these three seasons. He's entering the last year of his contract. Okay. There's a new offensive coordinator here who's not as wedded to him, is not as invested in him as Nick Siriani was, okay? Or, you know, and I think Nick Siriani's been a big

advocate for Kenny Gainwell. Will Shipley, we've seen from the team's internal media, this is not a running back like Donnell Pumfrey, who they ended up with. This is a running back who they targeted. This is a red star player. This is someone who at the start of the day in the draft room, they're saying we need to get Will Shipley, okay? I think that, and I like Kenny Gainwin.

I think Kenny Gainwell's a, I don't want to say a better player than the reputation suggests. Yeah. But I really liked what Kenny Gainwell did in the postseason two years ago. I think that last year, Kenny Gainwell had opportunity to have a more prominent role. That's fair. Week one last year, Kenny Gainwell was their guy, right? The reason the Eagles went to D'Andre Swift last year was because they thought he was better than Kenny Gainwell. Now, Kenny Gainwell might be just a fine second back, but I think that the team's invested in Will Shipley.

I think the team likes Will Shipley more than the public does, number one. I think that the draft investment can not be understated here. He was their top offensive player drafted this year. And I think that Will Shipley has shown that he can be at three down back. If Saquan Barkley goes down, I think Will Shipley would have a bigger role than Kenny Gamewell. I think you are right that they liked him and it's different. They definitely like him more than consensus. I mean, by definition, you dropped a guy.

Sure. But with the video, but with the video. I'm sorry, not going to gain well. A Dunn of Pumfrey, they ended up with Pumfrey. That wasn't their part. That's fine. Yeah. However, you know, it's hanging on your conscience that you got the Justin Fields thing wrong.

The manipulation of stats of numbers that you just used is criminal. Lumping, willship, in with Miles Sanders as opposed to Donald Pumfrey. He was drafted 74 picks after Miles Sanders was. He was drafted five spots away from where Donald Pumfrey was, as if that's the demarcation. Give me a break. Bo, Bo, there was what I said was a factual comment that their three highest drafted running backs since 2008 are the Shaw McCoy, Miles Sanders, and Will Shippling.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion. You're not entitled to your facts. Okay. That is a fact. That is a fact. That is a verifiable fact. All I'm saying is Will Shipley, the Eagles haven't had a white running back since Steve Van Buren,

so Will Shipley is going to the Hall of Fame. First of all, I don't think that's accurate, actually. Okay, number one. But all I'm saying is there's a fourth round running back is an investment here. Their highest drafted offensive player. Sure. There's also a very long history of the front office liking players more than the coaching staff. I was going to say the Red Star player thing was like a Sidney Brown argument last year.

he didn't see the field for like more than half the season. So that's fair. And to circle back to what you said earlier, it's possible that the not throwing to running backs thing is more of a Jalen Hertz thing than anything else. And if that's the case, what is Will Shippley's role? Wow. Spirited Will Shippley.

I was going to say, this turned into like a political debate. Plus, if you really want to know why Bo is against Will Shepley, okay, you know where Will Shepley's brother went to college. It has honestly nothing to do with it. Okay. So the Princeton bias. Yeah, that must be it.

That must be it. Anything else you'd like to get off your chest, DJ? Eagles or non-Eagles? Anything. We're so thrilled you're here. It's a summer day. I'm going to keep you captive here. No, I don't think I have any, like, that was like a, do I have anything to call out?

Not really. You know, you guys are catching me off vacation, so I'm like pretty relaxed. Vacation, E.J. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, like I literally came out of vacation for you guys. Wow. First of all, we're flattered by that.

I was flattered to finally show up in the state. I have two questions for you. number one. What's it like in studio compared, like, how does it compare to, I guess, what you think of the show when you're watching or listening at home? It definitely tracks. Like, you know, I would say your studio looks very modern and nice, and I would call the whole building modern and nice.

The thing that surprised me, pleasantly surprised. It's nice and cold in here, you know? Like, you guys keep it, like, properly frigid in this place, which I appreciate because you get behind the lights, you get on camera. You make a little hot and then you're worried if you start sweating like oh no I'm sweating on camera No worries about that here and I can appreciate that you know as someone who likes to keep the house around 68 My my wife likes it around 72. Yeah, yeah this is not a huge difference but yeah 72 is really hot for me and every house is different 60. It's really cold for me humidity is a big factor in all this and I'm a I'm a humidity nerd in my house

Oh, interesting. Yes, how does this go? I like to keep it below 50% humidity because then that helps with the really then if we're at 70 at I'm like not sweating in my own house that's my that's my like tagline sweating in my own house yeah I'll say I like that so yeah I appreciate the temperature in this place for sure okay and then and then can we hold you for two more minutes here oh absolutely whenever we have somebody here I'm always interested in an origin story what's your welcome to the Eagles beat moment number one and and you know there's there's people people watching here who are a big admirer of your work You've really established a strong reputation in this market on the Eagles beat.

What's been the key to the rise of EJ, if you will? Well, my welcome to the Eagles moment's easier to come up with them, the second one. My first, I think it was my first day at Eagles training camp. This was back when I was a general assignment reporter who was supposed to be helping. And, you know, I'd covered college sports at Temple for a while, And I knew better than to go show up to the beat, you know, Les Damo and Jeff and go, I want to write about Carson Wentz on the first step. So I go up to Jeff and I'm like, you know, Jeff McLean, great, like my colleague, become a good friend of mine.

This is mostly just funny at this point. I go to him and I was like, hey, like, you know, I want to write about Sidney Jones, you know, like off the radar a little bit. You know, shows I kind of, I'm like, you know, trying to pay my dues a little bit. Sure, yeah. And he goes, he's a first round pick. guys how about Joe Ostman and I like quick Google like who is Joe Osmond like 89th guy on the roster defensive men out of Central Michigan Jordan Milana yeah best friends with Jordan Milada yeah which I ended up running about a

couple years later and what I would tell to family bakery in the UP he does yeah Daniel Gallen actually went to that big yes I know um shout out to Daniel Gallin yeah I saw him a couple months ago actually uh so I wrote the this is what I would tell to young journalists out there. I wasn't discouraged by writing Joe O'Sman at all. I wrote Joe O'Sman like I would have written Carson once. I tried as hard. I made extra calls on it. Shout out to Les Bowen for helping me figure out like a good angle into the story. So that was definitely my welcome to the Eagles beat. It's like they're not going to just trust you to write about anybody pretty much. Like you got to earn it. So yeah, that's definitely like that. That's a good story. Welcome to the Eagles beat moment.

In terms of the rise of you of me. I don't want to go third person on your show. year. No periods in EJ., by the way, for those of you don't make that mistake like I did. I would just say I've been really fortunate to work with some really awesome people and some people who gave me opportunities. You know, I started the Enquirer as a high school sports coordinator and a copy editor. You did well then. And, you know, I try, basically my motto was to make it so they never wanted me to leave the building. And I've been really fortunate that people have seen that and, you know, rewarded that. It's not very often that you see people like come up through one place and, you know, make it to an NFL beat at one paper. So I'm very

thankful for those people, is what I would say. Amen to that. Sorry, I didn't mean to go like all a straight-laced on here. I think we've actually already talked about peeing sitting down. I know that we tease that on the intro, but I feel like we can we can leave that on the cutting room floor. Although there is a chat who wants to know if you also think it's unbecoming for a man to see Barbie. Oh, so that was, when we texted me about the peeing sitting down topic, big a possibility, I was going to say, Zach has a couple of like, machissimo, like, kind of like false bravado. Like, you said it up me. Okay.

Like, there's nothing wrong with like, I mean, listen, I'm not saying I'm doing it a lot. You know, never? And I have not seen Barbie, but there's nothing wrong with seeing Barbie. For a while. I didn't say there's anything wrong with it. I just don't. That's the thing. You guys created it.

You were like, like, taken aback that he would even suggest you'd seen it. Like, there's nothing wrong with it. I mean, I've never seen Inside Out one. That's a good movie. I saw Inside Out too. But, yeah, I don't go to the movies that often. I went to see Oppenheimer because it's Oppenheimer, okay? But you were at the movies already.

You could have doubled up, done the Barthelheimer. I never knew this was a thing people did until, until Bo brought it up on the show. I have nothing against people who sit down. Brandon Brooks is with me here, okay? That's true. It's so much less efficient. But again, we don't need to relitigate however you do in the privacy of your bathroom

is between you and the four walls, okay? But if it's an open concept bathroom? Between you and the open concept bathroom. I don't know if I've ever heard of that before. Not sure I'm into that idea. Never in public, though. The fewer times you can ever, interact with a public toilet seat, the better, in my opinion.

Well, said. Absolutely. Nobody's. I agree that. But you were on my side. Sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead.

You were on my side with the media house bathroom. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You don't touch the seat. No. It's very, very selfish. No. Like, if it's.

You got to get in and out of that place. Yeah. Yeah, but that's selfish. There's women in there. You got to be accurate. You have to be deadly accurate. If it's down, you pull it up. Oh, yeah, but if you want to pee on the down seat and be accurate, that's fine.

No. And clean up and clean up after. You clean up after yourself. But if you pull it up, you got to put it down. If you pull it up, you pull it up, you pull it. But if it's already up, you're not touching it. You're not touching it. You're not pulling it down at that point.

Yes. Look out for the people around you. Julia, what do we think? The situation here, there are two bathrooms in the media house. No, you want to get in the out. It is 90% men, but there are women there. And if you walked into the bathroom and the seat was still up, would you or would you not be a little bit annoyed?

I would be a little bit annoyed, yeah. My point is this. If I pull it up, I'm pulling it down. If it's up, I'm not touching it. What happened to character matters? What happened to looking out for the betterment of society and not covering up for other people? It's all of a sudden in the bathroom.

It's all about me. It's only me. I only answer to myself. Believe it better than you found it, I guess. If it's up, I'm straighting like a girl. Okay? If it's down, I'm pulling it up and then bringing it down. I think it's worse to To pee with the seat down. I would never do that. I would never peeve with the seat down. I would just clean after the end if you need to, but like I said, you had to be deadly accurate You can I do I do think that is also a violation. Yeah, that's a violation. You think that's a violation. All right. Yes. All right. Well, listen, bathroom medicate, this is important because like most people go their whole lives without talking about these things. So you guys are doing like a public service here. I'm glad that we finally

we have a voice of a woman. I'm focused on on being in there as as I can. As little as I can. That's selfish. Wash the hands, leave. I'm with Zach on this.

You got to be as efficient as possible in there. If it's down, it's incredibly selfish. I'm returning here. I'm leaving it as I found. Again, it remains incredibly selfish. Okay. Have a little credit. What happened to chivalry in this country? Is that an example of chivalry?

Yeah, I think so. I actually think it is chivalrous to put the seat down. But I'm not saying that I'm doing it. Maybe you'll, like, maybe. A couple scallywags over here. You get a paper towel and you do it that way. I just, I don't, I don't touch anything. I don't want to touch it.

You do the elbow. But you got to do what's for the betterment of society. I think I'm, I think I'm helping society. by not touching it, right? No. It has spoken. All right. I guess that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast.

I'll tell you guys my softball story tomorrow. What's on my conscience about that? But we will get to that later. Thank you to E.J. for making the effort on vacation, no less. From the barbershop. Fantastic. We will be back tomorrow at noon. We're actually doing a mailbag.

So send us your question. A little midweek mailbag before Zach and I sort of part ways. He's going vacation. I'm going on vacation. So we want to get one more in. Send us your questions tomorrow at noon right here on P-H-L-Y. So for EJ and Zach and Julia, thank you for listening and watching. Make sure you subscribe and like the video, all that good stuff.

For all of us, we thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. And as always, we love you.