PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Kansas City Chiefs reign again as Philadelphia Eagles join rest of the league in chasing anew

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid did it again on Super Bowl Sunday, outlasting Kyle Shanahan and the San Francisco 49ers with an impressive defensive gameplan and the foresight to understand the new playoff overtime rules. Prince Tega Wanogho and James Winchester are back on top.What did the big game tell us about where the Eagles stand in all of this? And what’s the latest on Haason Reddick’s request to seek a trade? Zach Berman and Bo Wulf begin the offseason in earnest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the P. H.L.Y. Eagles podcast, Bo Wolf and Zach Berman back in Studio B, the comfortable confines of our location in Philadelphia. Good to see you, Zach. I missed you. Good to be back with Julia. We've got the long offseason ahead. It has finally started. The Super Bowl is over. It's now time to get going on building the roster. Yes, it's the non-playing season, as I like to call. And it's good to be here. Saw you on the screen yesterday with the Hassan Reddick news. But things come fast and furious right now to use that in that phrase. The combine is two weeks from now. A free agency is, what, three and a half weeks from now. The draft shortly thereafter.

So things are starting to pick up in terms of Eagles news. We already saw a tricko out. Although the big news, I imagine, is yesterday's game right now. Well, we will talk about Hassan Reddick. We're going to talk about some of the recent edge-rusher trades in the NFL over the past couple of years to maybe contextualize what the Eagles might be looking for if such a deal were to come to fruition.

We will go over Goose Wisely from the Big Super Bowl. We've got a lot to talk about from the Super Bowl and some other nonsense at the end. You don't say. Let's start. Now, people probably very confused about the headline. As opposed to all the other days when it's very straightforward. and self-explanatory. Now, Steve Mix-a-lot is what the caption is there for a picture of J-Van Hargrave.

And I don't think I have told this story on the podcast yet, but my favorite part of Media Night, what I thought was the funniest part of Media Night, was when we were talking to J-Van-Hargrave, and actually right before we were talking to Jabon Hargrave, a different reporter from the Philadelphia market said to J-Von, do you know about Steve Mix? There was a player called Steve Mix,

from the early 80s in basketball who was on the Sixers and lost in the NBA finals to the Lakers, I think it was, and then he was on the Lakers and lost to the Sixers. So he lost in the finals for two straight years to... Now, he was presenting it as the same team, which is not the case with Steve Mix. But he's like, do you...

And he says to Javon, do you think you're going to be Steve Mix in a very convoluted way? And Javon's like, I hope not. Like, the game hasn't happened yet. Like, I'd like to win the game. But unfortunately for Javon Hargrave, he is Steve Mix, and so here we are. Yes.

Now, not on his own doing. I thought Javon actually played a good game last night. But San Francisco loses in a similar fashion of the way the Eagles lost last year in that Patrick Mahomes got the ball last, or he didn't get the ball last a year ago. I mean, J-Wan did have a few more seconds. But the inevitability of Patrick Mahomes caught up to San Francisco. Francisco. There were certainly things they did along the way that contribute to it, but I think last night was probably how, you know, Charles Barclay must have felt playing in the 90s when when Michael Jordan was playing, is that Patrick Mahomes, that, that chief seems not the most

talented team in the league. If there was any year when they would appear vulnerable, it would be this one, but Patrick Mahomes elevates everything else. And Andy Reed, too, and the whole team, but that was the best player in the league playing like the best player in the league in the biggest moments. I mean, it will not surprise you that I have sort of a contrarian take here. Yeah.

But first of all, I do think it was different for the Niners than the Eagles. Like the Niners had the ball with a chance to win a couple times and did not do it, whereas the Eagles didn't get that chance at the end of the game. I just like the inevitability of Mahomes,

I mean, I have been saying, we've been talking all long. He's the best player of all time. I thought they were going to win the game because of that. But like the zero-sum nature of a game like that where like all of the narratives get written based on who the winner is,

when there were so many little things that could have gone differently, like, you know, if Spaggs doesn't send the perfect blitz on third and four and Trent McDuffie gets home, then the Niners probably win that game in a walk-off field goal. Like this conversation that is Brock pretty good enough to win a Super Bowl, like, yes, he basically did.

like well no I'm gonna push back I mean they basically won the game they basically won the super I'm not saying I'm not saying they get a ring they don't deserve to call themselves Super Bowl champions they're gonna be whining about it for a long time moving forward but like to get to that level like it was you're like a point zero zero zero one percent away from having won the Super Bowl like if the ball bounces a little bit differently on a couple of those fumbles or if like a million different things happen I'm not and I believe me I'm gonna get on Kyle Shanahan there are a lot of things to discuss, but, like, you know,

if the Chief's defense wasn't one of the, like, had one of the best playoff performances we've ever seen over the last four games, then Patrick Mahomes doesn't get to revel in being, oh, my God, it's Patrick Mahomes. Everything he does touches, everything he touches turns to gold. Like, there are a lot of different factors here. Of course, there are always different factors. Now, I don't think the Niners basically won the game

because you have to win the game to win the game. I also don't subscribe to that thing like Brock Purdy can't win it. To me, that's like hot takery. But where I would push back is that Brock Purdy had two third downs that he needs to convert to win the Super Bowl. And he doesn't convert those to win the Super Bowl. Now, the defense deserves credit there. And Spags did something last night that Jonathan Gatton didn't do last year, right? Or didn't do it as effectively last year.

but what is what I will say about Brock Purdy and the Niners is that like you said if they convert that third down at the end of the fourth quarter the chiefs don't get the ball back if they convert that third down in the in the red zone before they kick the field goal then the chiefs need to convert a two point down to two point conversion so point being there that they they settled for like lack of a better term for two field goals when they could have converted to third downs there. So all of this goes into play, and I agree, it's simplistic to say Patrick Mahomes, the inevitability of Patrick Mahomes, but I frame it that way because to me, San Francisco was the better team, the better overall team. Last year, I thought the Eagles were the better overall team. But I thought in both of those situations, Patrick Mahomes made critical plays in critical moments. Patrick Mahomes had that, you know, we all talk about the Bradbury holding, and that was a tough call.

I get it. But Mahomes had that third down scramble, you know, to extend it there. That was just a critical play. And you saw that last night. Mahomes just made critical plays after critical plays and critical moments. And there were things Mahomes could have done better. And look, Kansas City settled for a field goal at the end of regulation, right? But there's a reason why he's in the winner circle. every year it seems because he's the best player in the league and I use that Jordan comparison because there are so many players during the 90s who you know Charles Barkley carolone like they could have won titles right but that is where I think it's different I mean basketball there are five there are 10 guys on the field one player matters more like we have like so many years of history to

have that proven out it's just a little bit different he you know I agree that he is the best player in the most important position in the most popular sport all that good stuff I also think that the Niners are a little bit overrated. Like, DVOA has them as, like, the second best team that's ever lost the Super Bowl, right? Because their regular season was so great. But, like, over the course of the playoffs, they were not that impressive. Sure, they were vulnerable. They were, yeah, they very easily could have and arguably should have lost each of their two prior games in the playoffs.

And so just like this was a flawed Patrick Mahomes team that won the Super Bowl, they also had a chance to play a team that I don't think was, was like the best representative of a Super Bowl caliber team, given the way that they played over the past month. Well, the past month, I would agree. I thought the Lions outplayed them, but the Niners won. I thought the Packers outplayed them, but the Niners won. But that's kind of the chief script, right? Is that they're going to make one more play than you.

And that's what I saw. And Andy Reid, I would imagine, and the chat can weigh in here, that some of the lingering thoughts about Philly should be dissipated by now, right? It's been long enough. It's been since 2012. He's known now more as the Chiefs coach than the Eagles coach. I mean, that's abundantly clear.

And I think he's one of the great coaches. It's clear, too. He's one of the great coaches in NFL history. And as long as he has Mahomes, they're not going to slow down. So they're going to be right back in the thick of it next year, too. And so if you are saying, like, the inevitability of Mahomes and you feel like Barclay,

does that re-contextualize how you feel about the Eagles lost last year? Good question. Yeah, it's, look, it's similar to what I said last year. And I remember doing the post-game show with you. I was in the hotel. And I said, like, the Eagles played a great game tonight, but the best player in the league won. And that, that to me was the difference in that game.

I think that the Eagles made some mistakes defensively last year. Look, it's clear Spaggs is one of the great coordinators in NFL history. I mean, when you look at what he did at the Giants, we look at what he's done in the Chiefs. First coordinator to ever win for Super Bowls. Yeah. So there are things that the Chief's defense did that the Eagles defense could have done last year. But the Eagles offense played an extraordinary game last year. the Eagles defense last year in the first half. Shouldn't you be comparing the Eagles defense to the Niners defense, though?

No, I'm saying that there are things that Spags could have done. Oh, I'm sorry, there's things that Gannon could have done to win that game. But ultimately, I think the reason why where it all kind of comes together with Eagles, is that Patrick Mahomes was in their way. And I don't know if there's a different quarterback in the league who wins that game against the Eagles last year, other than Patrick Mahomes, given the way the Eagles played. And I thought last night, I thought the Niners were the more talented team

throughout the course of the game. I just thought that Patrick Mahomes, when it was money time, right? That's the expression. When it was money time, Patrick Mahomes made the plays. And I thought that's what happened last year, too. So, yeah, when I look back at the Super Bowl last year, there were five plays throughout the course of the game, 10 plays throughout the course of the game,

that if just like you said, if it's a different bounce here, if it just goes a little different, then the Eagles win their second Lombardi. But ultimately, Patrick Mahomes had a chance to win that game. And last night was similar to me, and I think that when Patrick Mahomes is in your way, I'm going to take him just about every time.

I think the thing it does for me is, and I feel like we appreciated this at the time, But like the level that Jalen Hertz played in that game, you know, it was the best game he's ever played. And we talked about it how even though the offenses were going sort of blow for blow in terms of the points they were scoring possession by possession, everything looked so much more difficult for the Eagles. Sure. The windows that Jailen Hertz was throwing into were much smaller. Like Patrick Mahomes had guys running wide open, right? And in the context of Spags having had two weeks to shut down that.

at Niners' offense, I think it makes the Eagles performance offensively in that game even a little bit more impressive. Oh, that's true, too. And I think that Chiefs team last year is better than the Chiefs team this year. The season has... Their defense is better this year, though. Their defense is better last year, but yeah. But it's not lost on me that the three Super Bowls, Patrick Mahomes, has won. He's come back from a double-digit deficit in each game, right? Because, like, no lead is safe with him. and it's similar to how Brady was. He just manages possessions so well. He makes things work.

I mean, I think to that, like the fourth down run that he had, a fourth an inch's run. And you say, all right, it's a short play. That's a money play in that situation. Great play call. It's actually one you see the Eagles do where they run Goddard across the middle, and then you can either throw quickly to Goddard

or Hertz can. and keep it. The pass to Kelsey in regulation. I mean, even just how well executed that final touchdown was. Like, he just makes it's, I run out of adjectives to describe him because he is the best player in the league. Yeah, there was a prop bet on like the most consecutive completions he would have in the game. And it was a seven and a half and he had like a six and a seven.

And then in overtime, he goes eight for eight. on that final drive. And go, like, you know, he does rise to the occasion. But in overtime, what did you make, Zach, of the decision from Kyle Shanahan to accept the ball? Yes, I texted you and Shio in real time saying that he screwed this up. And for full disclosure, I need to fess up to something. I knew the overtime rules in the playoffs. What I didn't know was,

The clock? At the end of over, no, yeah, I didn't know at the end of overtime. I thought it reset into a new, to a, like a fresh overtime. So I was kind of wondering why they were taking their time there. Why do you need to fess up to that as if you were, you should be held accountable for that? Well, no, I need to fess up to it because I don't want to speak as if like everybody knew all the rules for overtime. Okay, but it's not your job. You're not the head coach of a football team.

Yeah. So I, so I don't buy the argument that that Shanahan didn't know. Now some of the players didn't know, but it's not necessarily. the player's response. It's Shannon. I want to get into that. So, but you, so to answer the question

succinctly, uh, yeah, I, I would have gone on defense first, similar to what you do in the college over time. I heard Shanahan's explanation after the game, which was they wanted the ball third,

meaning that if both teams scored the same amount, then it's sudden death and you have the chance to win the game. Yeah. The problem there, as Kansas City said, is that they would have gone for two-point conversion. So then you're talking field goal, field goal basically gives you the ball third or punt punt or or or or punt or I think a better

explanation would be that Kansas City just drove downfield your defense is gas you want to give them a chance to breathe but in I I would always want to know all right what are the terms I need to go by here do I need a field goal do I need a touchdown do I have a touchdown two point conversion that's why I like going on defense in the college overtime and so I would have I would have gone on defense first that said this is just a literally the first time we've seen this happen, right? Yes. So we don't, so it's, it's not as if there's, there's precedent to suggest you should do X,

you should do Y. And we should say the Eagles, like the Eagles were a big part of getting this rule past. John Ferrari was, was very instrumental in that. And they say that the models are like very close to 50, 50, whether you would want the ball or not. What would you have done? I would want the ball second. Okay.

And I understand that there are reasons to want it first because, like you said, then If it goes to a third possession, you have the chance to win the game in sudden death. The problem is that that presumes that the other team would not go for two if it's touchdown, touchdown. Now, if they go for two, you still have a chance to win, and maybe it comes down to whether you prefer your offense going for a two-point conversion or your defense stopping a two-point conversion, which you have more faith in. But yes, I mean, given that it's literal Patrick Mahomes in the game, you're probably expect. expecting them to be able to drive down the field and score a touchdown, I would want to know. Because the thing about getting the ball second is you have the huge advantage of

if they have scored, you get four downs to work with instead of only three downs to work with on the first possession. Speaking of three downs or four downs, would you have gone for it on the fourth down if you were Shanahan? The fourth and four from the nine in overtime? Yeah, that's a tough one. And they didn't even talk about it. Yes. Because I think that is a tough call because if you don't get it, you're still giving them the ball

on the nine yard line. and they've got a long way to go. And I will say, I will say I was surprised for the very first time for Shanahan when he went for that fourth and three in the fourth quarter. I thought for sure he was going to kick that field goal. It was good play design. I think I probably would take the field goal. Really?

Okay. Because now, you know, you have all the – and I get it, right? They put them in fourth down. They put them in third and long, right? There were chances for San Francisco to win that game with three points. I still would have tried to come away with a touchdown there. And even if you miss it there, you say, all right, well, first off, Kansas cities might be dealing with their fourth downs differently, right? For the reason you mentioned, if you score, they have to go for fourth downs.

If it's still tied, they might punt the ball away at that point. Like that fourth down, the fourth and one, they were backed up on. Maybe they don't go for it there because if you miss it, then San Francisco is basically in field goal range to win the game. Maybe you punt it away and say we're trusting our defense to do it. Yeah, so if I was Shanahan, I know it's easy to say this after the fact, I would have gone for fourth and four at the eight to try to win the game. Or not to try to win the game, to try to get that touchdown and force. The problem is even if you get it, they can still go.

They can still go for two. And go for two and win the game. That's true. Shanahan did say, oh, I'm sorry, not Shanahan. Romo said, you know, this is for the Super Bowl, the past the Jennings, right? It was almost as if Romo wasn't sure what the rule was. in that case, or did I read too much into that? On that third down play.

Wouldn't they let Chris Jones come through? Yeah, and then Jennings kind of slid back, you know, and it's overthrown. I mean, I think Romo didn't cover himself in glory throughout that game. Yeah, Roma was like, it's Jennings for the Super Bowl there, and it's actually not because Kansas City was getting the ball back. But he's talking all over the game winning touchdown. Yeah. Yeah, I was wondering that too.

It was so anticlimatic there that. you know, it seemed like NN's had that jackpot line ready to go. Right. But still, yeah, Romo was going through all the clock situations at the snap. Yeah. I do wonder, and I haven't seen this written anywhere, but do you think San Francisco was like ready for the clock to expire there? Because it was down to like two seconds when he snapped it. That could have been part of the motion working.

Sure. So here's my, here's my. thing on what came out in the locker room. Okay. Afterwards, I think it was Lindsay Jones of the ringer, and I think it was some other places too. But basically the Chiefs, all along, they had talked through it over the past couple weeks with Andy Reid. He was telling them that if this game goes to overtime,

we're going to want the ball second because we're going to want to have the choice to go for two. They all knew that. Like, they were involved in that process, whereas the Niners players were saying basically they didn't know that the rules were different in overtime. They had never talked about it. And I think that that reveals,

like a very stark difference in the coaching philosophies of Andy Reid. How so? And Kyle Shanahan. I think that Andy Reid is all about enabling the players. Okay. You can say players coach, but I think that that is his philosophy. And it's like Travis Kelsey is allowed to freelance on routes, right? Patrick Mahomes can do what Patrick Mahomes does.

And, you know, Patrick Mahomes is the greatest of all time. He can, and I know that you can have that argument too. but he would be great anywhere. But, you know, Andy Reid is always, sometimes to his detriment, willing to bring in guys who have, like, nasty off-the-field histories, right? I think he is all about,

and you can unpack, like, the pathology of that for him and, like, his experience in life. But to him, it is all about, like, getting the players to be the best versions of that, themselves and giving them the information and stuff like that. Whereas with Kyle Shanahan, and maybe this is simplistic, but it is all about, I am the one playing chess and I want the best chess pieces, and they are going to do what I want them to do. They're going to run my offense.

They're going to run my scheme. And, like, they don't need to know everything that's going on. They just need to know what their job is and to do their job. And, you know, this game could have gone either way, but I think that that is an instructive way of their two philosophies. And like from an Eagles perspective, I think that Nick Siriani is much more of the Andy Reid lean,

but maybe gets in trouble sometimes when, like, for instance, the offensive scheming is trying to be a little bit more of the second thing. And I think, like, from a Kyle Shanahan perspective, it's, I think that is a real flaw of his. And that's all. I don't disagree with the characterization of the coaches,

right? I do think that is an accurate assessment in that Andy is very much all about the players, all about the players, right? It's even like Travis Kelsey going nuts on him on the sideline. Like, could you imagine someone doing that to Kyle Shanahan? Well, but he, and it's like Kyle Shanahan will bench a guy for fumbling, right? Like, it's all about like, you cannot be afforded to make a mistake on my team. Whereas Andy Reid, like, his best player is yelling in his face and he's unmoved and it's like, yeah, I understand. And he wants to be on the field.

That's fine. Yeah. Now, look. That was kind of wild. Yeah. If that was Noah Gray who did that, I don't know. Like Noah Gray would have, you know, Travis Kelsey's one of their best players, right? Andy, it's like there's an old Bill Belichick, Bill Parcell's Lawrence Tower's story where

Lawrence Taylor was like 10 minutes late to the meeting. And, you know, I'm Bill Belichick. I started the meeting. Lawrence Taylor comes in late. and then, and then, you know, Belichick tells Parcell's afterwards. I just think you should know Lawrence Deller was 10 minutes late for the meeting. And Parcell says, so why did you start the meeting? And it's like because, you know, that's Travis Kelsey doing it.

It might be different. So, but as I was saying, like I agree in those characterizations that it very much is with Shanahan, like, whether it's you or Sheel, who says it, that they're almost like players in the video game. But I don't know if the overtime is representative of that. I got to imagine Shanahan and his staff thought it through. Sometimes you can say, like, is this productive information to, like, does the team need to know? But that's what I mean. Like, he didn't think that it was a productive thing for the players to know what the rules of the game are. Or no, I'm saying maybe they knew the rules, but they didn't know the strategy, you know, that he didn't clue them in on the strategy involved.

They didn't know that the rules were different. No, it's not. It's like Donovan. who played for Andy Reid didn't know they were tied. Sure. Right? They were two. I'm not thinking away from what was a good story.

I read Lindsay's. I read a few others. I don't think it was like 53 players saying they didn't know what the rules were. But I do think that's indicative of his philosophy. But I also think that where I give Andy Reid credit, like they're saying throughout the week, or they said even back in training camp, right? Right. that if this happens, we want the ball second,

so we have the option of going for two. And then you put in your two-point conversion plays. And it is productive, I think, for the players to know all along, all right, even if they score, we have a chance to go win this game with the two-point conversion, right? You're leaving nothing up for the coaches win. The coaches, you know, this is what the plan is. And I think it's more productive when you have it that way.

Do you think that you look at Nick Siriani's reaction after the Chiefs game any differently, knowing that they went on to win the Super Bowl? Well, I kind of thought it was a little much then. Like, I love Nick's emotion in that I do think Nick should try to be someone that he's not. But I also don't believe in, in, like, parading on the Chiefs after a game in November. The Chiefs are about what you do in January and February. We know that.

So, yeah, to me, that's like the 4th, 49ers acting like they won the Super Bowl when they beat the Eagles this December. Come on. You win the Super Bowl in February, not in November. So I would say the same thing. I would not poke Goliath. And to me, that's what the chiefs are. You heard Patrick Mahomes say on the podium last night, we're never underdogs, right? I didn't like when Nick Siriani did it then. I like Nick Seriani's emotion, but I don't think you need to come off the field against Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid acting as if you just won the Super Bowl because in essence that proved to be the Eagle Super Bowl. There you go. We'll get into sort of the Eagles Niners of it in a minute, but let's talk first about some of our friends, our sponsors, Factor, who was so integral in letting us be boots on the ground in Vegas over the course of Super Bowl Week, all that great content. We were able to provide you.

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posting something about Debo Samuel, keep our name out your mouth. EAD, which is, I believe, short for EAD. D. What do you make of the Eagles Niners continuing rivalry? Like Diomador-Lin-War is talking about shutting down the Eagles hours after the game. Is that right? Is that what he said? Yeah. Yeah, first off, I mean, our rivalries are fun, right? From a reporter perspective, from a fan perspective, I like juice in anything.

First time Dre Greenlaw and Don DeSangeo were in the same building again since their altercation. And Dom, I don't know what kind of magic he's able to pull. Yeah, juju on the turf, yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, now the opposite, or not the opposite, unlike Nick Siriani kind of stopping on the Chiefs in November, if you're going to talk, talk when the season's over, right? Fletcher Cox had that waiting in his holster. Yeah, I kind of respect it.

He was just like angrily holding on to that one. Yeah, he was holding on to it. It's like, because you don't want to say it, you don't want to say it like during Super Bowl. It's very funny. And then the Niners win. really was a coin flip. Yeah, and then the Niners win, and then you have egg on your face, right? So look, Fletcher, our co-worker Fletcher, if you're going to do it, do it when you know that, all right, they did not win, and you have reason to talk there.

I mean, Dibo's an incredible player. The Niners whoop the Eagles this year. There's no question about it. The Eagles were never the same after that. But it's accurate. Fletcher has a ring, and Dibo does not. And, you know, rings are always trump cards in these situations. So, look, while he can talk, he might as well talk.

But, yeah, it's amusing. It's comical. I just think it's kind of interesting that Fletcher has been holding on to this, specifically with Debo for so long. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think there's no bad blood between, or there's no, yeah, there is bad blood. There's no love lost.

is the term I was going for between the Eagles and the Niners. And something I heard talking to Hargrave last week, like, yeah, I mean, they're pulling for me, but not for us, right? Because I definitely think that, yeah, the Eagles are not very big fans of the Niners. The other thing you wanted to talk about from a Super Bowl perspective, Zach, is the roster building lessons of the Chiefs defense. Yeah, so look, if you're saying the Eagles need to fix this defense, which we all agree with, and you say how do they do it?

Right. I give a lot of credit to Brett Veach and Steve Spagnol and Nandi Reid, but if you look at the way this defense has turned around in the past three seasons here, it's really been through the draft. I mean, their last two drafts, they've nailed picks. Their whole lineback record came through this draft here. Leo Channal, right, made play after play last night. You saw Nick Bolton, key player there, key draft pick for them. They have perhaps the best cornerback combination in the NFL. Both draft picks. Trent McDuffie, we keep talking about Kyle Hamilton. I'll give you a couple on Trent McDuffie. I thought the arms were too short.

I thought the Eagles were not going to be interested. Yeah, so I had heard the Eagles were interested in him with that AJ Brown pick, right? But very well, like if they don't take Jordan Davis there, we keep saying they could have taken Kyle Hamilton. You could have taken Trent McDuffie. We know there was interest there, right? So, and then they hit on Sneed late in the draft. and they had Chris Jones. Chris Jones is a blue chip player.

Yeah, that's a major factor. Yeah, they signed Justin Reed. That was a good signing. That was a guy we talked about in the free-h market. And Mike Edwards. Yeah, and Mike Edwards. Both guys, the Eagles could have signed. But they've made some just quality picks on all three levels,

and they've rebuilt a defense that was a problem for them a few years ago. Now, this is where I would go the other way and say, this is where Mahomes comes in. Like, you have the flexibility to take your time, doing things like that when you have Patrick Mahomes on the other side of the ball. But yeah, I think I think it's fair to say. Now, it's probably an outlier result in, like, hitting on so many of those picks. But certainly it's impressive as we try to figure out how the Eagles can move forward.

Yeah, you look at it. Like, they trade a Tyree Kill, okay? And they get Trent McDuffey and George Carl Office in the first round. Two key players for them. And then just looking at their draft history, the amount of picks that, that they hit on, especially in that 2022 draft. It's really, it's a credit to Brett Veach. How happy do you think Ryan Kerrigan was watching George Koloftus recover that fumble?

Probably very happy as Purdue guys. But, and this probably transitions into another discussion here, but if the Eagles are going to trade Hassan Reddick, but even if they don't, they have a first-round pick, they have two seconds, they're going to have all these comp picks. The Eagles are going to have opportunities to add, quality cost-controlled players on their defense in April. But they need to hit on the evaluation and then the development, right?

Like the linebackers in this game, both the Niners and the Chiefs have good linebackers, but they hit on picks that the Eagles used on Davy on Taylor that the Eagles used on Nacobie Dean. Like, look at where Fred Warner was picked. Look where Leo Chanel was picked. I mean, uh, even Nick Bolton was a second round pick, right? Like,

like the, these are not guys, this is not Patrick Will's taken in the top half of the draft. This is typically, you identify players, you coach them up and they're key players for you. Yeah, I,

I kind of, uh, dislike when Fred Warner is brought up in this capacity, like, because he's the best linebacker football, uh, like he's a third round pick. And,

and honestly, like the, the track record of first and second round linebackers over the past five, 10 years is really, terrible. Like those guys do not usually work out very well. I don't, like, I think the Eagles general

philosophy of how they go about filling the linebacker position is not bad. I'd like to see them take more late round shots or even spend a little bit more money in undrafted free agency to bring guys in there. But the thing about linebackers is, I was talking about this over the weekend, like,

there's like 10 linebackers in the league who matter, right? Like, there aren't, there just aren't that, it's such a difficult position in the NFL today. There aren't that many guys who are like really good linebackers. And so it's not crazy to not have one of those guys. Now, Bolton and Channal had had very good games and they're also part of a nice hole that that allows them to, you know, play a little bit faster. But I, like the comparison to Warner and Greenlaw specifically has always just felt a little bit unfair to me because those are

unrealistic expectations for the use of those resources. I would agree with that. Like a, like a especially Warner, but when you look at the Eagles linebackers over recent years, and I agree with you. I just want more volume. Yeah, but when you're taking guys in the third round, you have to have a better hit rate, right? Now, we need to see what happens with Nicobi Dean, but that Davian Taylor picks stands out. Sure, but also, like, we have to stop talking about Davian Taylor, like, an early third round pick. It was like the last pick of the compensatory rate. It was like, you know, 103 overall or something like that.

I'm just pointing to, like, the way the chiefs have rebuilt this defense and have done it mainly through the draft. And as I said, it helps when Chris Jones is a foundation piece. But the Trent McDuffley, George Karloffis are just really good picks there. You know, Sneed and, you know, Janlon Watson and Joshua Williams, you can keep looking at this here. These picks compound. And it allows you to spend money on the offensive and defense. offensive lines. Like there's a reason why the chiefs can sign Juan Taylor. There's a reason why the chiefs can sign Joe Tunney. Because when you have starters on rookie deals, it's going to help you

across the board. Well, you tease this. Let's use this as a way to transition into Hassan Reddick because if the Eagles are going to have to rebuild that position with draft picks, we need to know what is possible for them to do. So you did a good job for a story on all p.hly.com looking into sort of the recent history of edge rush or trades. If we want to pull that up, Julia. But this year, you've got Montez Sweat. Now, some of these are in season. Some of these are out of season.

There's a bit of a difference. And obviously, you'll talk about the age differences here. But Montes Sweat gets a second round pick midseason. Chase Young got what, a third? Third, yep. Okay. Last year, you had Bradley Chubb, who goes for a fifth and a first and a fourth from Denver to Miami.

Robert Quinn for the Eagles, obviously, gave up a fourth round. pick that one worked out very well. Khalil Mack going from Chicago to the Chargers for a second and a future sixth. Von Miller you go back a second and a third. Yonik and Gakwey

a third and a fifth. Earlier that season, Yonik and Gawkeh for a second and a fifth, a little bit younger. And then you go back to 2019. Judevian Clowney for a third. Frank Clark and two players. And two players. Frank Clark for a third and a first.

No, Frank Clark and a third. Oh, Fran Clark and a third for a first, second, and third. The second was a future one. And then Robert Quinn at that point just for a sixth round pick. Yeah, so I agree with what you said, that you have to kind of look at the in-season and the off-season trades a little bit differently because the context is different.

A player like Von Miller, who's a pending free agent, but is going to a team on the verge of winning the Super Bowl, there's a little bit of, let's push the chips into the table. Right. the picks here, right? And then something like even the Montes sweat trade this year, what you're trying to do is you're trying to get ahead of free agency. You're trying to get a guy who you're giving up your second round pick

so you don't have to compete with other teams on the open market, essentially. But the deal that jumps out to me is Khalil Mack, because Khalil Mack was a better overall player in his career than Redick, but was two years older then, or a year and a half older, and wasn't coming off the same string of successful seasons that Redick has had. Offseason trade two. Offseason trade two, contract related, and gets a second round pick in there. And what jumps out to me with all of these trades, or there's a lot of second round picks. So that's probably the value that you're looking at. You probably want a second plus, but now the Eagles would ask for,

first I imagine, right? When you look at, you know, the Bradley Chubb trade and the Frank Clark trade. But I wonder if the ask would be something like a third this year and a second that can turn into a one next year. Interesting. Okay, so they can keep this string along of having like multiple picks in the first and second round. Maybe so. Maybe so. But if you're looking at kind of replenishing the roster for next year, then.

and having another second round pick, having three second round picks, I imagine would be of interest, would be of priority to them. So I think that a deal for Reddick would probably require at least a second round pick and more from the Eagles.

And this is going to be about compensation. And the other thing to consider, so we talked about Montes Sweat, right? Montes Sweat signs a deal for $24.5 million a year. Okay? There are 11 edge rushers now making over $20 million.

Hassan Reddick makes $15. million. We know the Eagles got Hassan Redick on a below market deal. We know any trade is going to require a team to pay Hassan Reddick. The reason why this is on the table is he wants a new deal. So you're probably thinking in that $25 million range for a Reddick. Now, if Reddick can't get the number that he's looking for, maybe there's a number in that 20 to 25 range that the Eagles might say, all right, you know, how about this? We'll pay you this instead of getting the draft picks. But I think this is going to be about compensation and cap consideration. My guess, though, is he's moved and the Eagles got a second. You would put your turkeys on that he is moved

at this point? Yes. Yeah. I don't think the Eagles are going to pay him in sweat. And I can see from an age perspective, the Eagles keeping sweat, I think that they, this was interesting. Schill brought up on the show last week that he thinks the Eagles can get more for sweat. You were kind of surprised by that. I disagree with that. Reddick's a better player. And so I think you can get a real good compensation for Redick. And if you can get a second and a third, like a second this year and a third next year maybe, that that would be enticing, but you have to have a really strong plan because he is, he's a special player. And the early book, at least, and sometimes this stuff is wrong,

but it does not look like a great draft class of edge rushers. certainly not super deep. The flip side to that is it is actually a very good class of free agent edge players. Now, not all of those guys are going to get to free agency, and you're going to have lots of competition there. But I think there is a way that the Eagles could backfill if they need to. The Josh sweat of it all, like, I'm just, and maybe it's recency bias, but he was so invisible in the second half of the season

while playing all of those snaps that, like, I'm a little bit worried that we have seen the best. of Josh Sweat already. Well, look, I'm not going to push back on that. And Sweat did not finish the season well. And Reddick's track record is better than Sweets. I think Reddick's a better player than Sweat. The Eagles tend to favor, for lack of a better term, guys they drafted, homegrown players.

Well, and certainly on paper you would want the guy who's three and a half years younger. But if you're saying, like, you know, this is someone who, now, I don't want to keep bringing up the injury history with sweat because he's been really durable. in the NFL. But if you're saying how many more seasons does he have on him, and you talk about scheme with Redick, which I don't buy totally because I think you have to design a scheme to maximize your best players, but it's not as if sweats good dropping in coverage, right? So now, Shield might be wrong, and you might be right, that Reddick commands more. So if you're going to trade the older player and get better draft picks back, then it would behoove you to do it.

The big variable here, and we'll have a lot of time this offseason to discuss this, is their honest assessment of Nolan Smith. Because Nolan Smith was compared to Hassan Reddick coming out. Nolan Smith's not Hassan Reddick. And you could say, look, it took Hassan Redick four years to become Hassan Reddick. He wasn't used the right way, but sometimes past rushers, it might take them time to develop. But this was always the question we had about Nolan Smith

was he didn't have prolific past brush production in college, right? So what makes you think he's going to be this type of sack producer in the NFL? And we certainly didn't see it this year. That's a roundabout way of saying if you trade Hassan Reddick, then you need to have a really good plan for what you're doing as an edge rusher. And maybe that's signing Bryce Huff or Josh Uchi or Andrew Van Ginkle. maybe that is trading up in the draft for Dallas Turner, which would be really enticing for me.

If you have three second round picks, and Dallas Turner drops to, like, that 10 to 12 range, you can be aggressive. Maybe you're real high on Chop Robinson or Chris Braswell or someone like that in the draft. But, man, I mean, Hassan Reddick is so talented. Like, he's elite at getting to the quarterback. that is one of the hardest skills to find

or it's one of the most valuable skills to find. I would have a hard time moving on from him unless you had a strong plan to replace him. I would say this. If someone's willing to pay him $25 million, there's a reason for that. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, he does the thing that is most valuable on defense

and he does it as well as like five guys in the league. I keep seeing this pushback. When I talk about Fangio scheme, I will say this very clearly. I am never in favor of choosing scheme over a player, ever. To me, this is a player league. Blue chip players are more important than anything else, and it's incumbent upon coaches to maximize players within their scheme.

Now, you can say there are certain things in your scheme that a player doesn't do well, and so we're going to do this to compensate for it. But if a player is an elite player, then you can't, like, trading a, a trading a guy because he's not the scheme fit, then I would say that's that, then the problem is your scheme. Well, I also think there's like there's a communication issue here, right? And it's, it's

interesting. I thought what Todd Davis was telling us in Vegas was really interesting about, you know, framing it as like sometimes you're going to have easy downs. Sometimes you're going to have hard downs. Like, if you're Hassan Redick and the messaging is like, yeah, I'm going to ask you to drop like four times a game. Yeah. It's not going to be a big deal. Like, it's going to be, it's going to be within the context of what we're doing as a group, it's going to make sense, and you're going to understand the why of it all. I think that's fine. Like, he doesn't have to rush the pass every single play. But if it's like, Matt Patricia's coming in and he's asking you to drop and, like, you don't get to go get the sacks you want before getting paid, right?

Like, of course, he's going to feel some kind of way about that. Like, managing those relationships is part of the job. And, like, Vic Fangio has done that for a long time. I don't know that that was done well with Hassan Reddick over the last year. That's a great point. And speaking of those interviews last week, which you can find on our YouTube channel, there are 30 interviews with more to come from, or 30 videos, both on demand and our live shows with more to come. We had Adam Hogue from CHGO on, and we were talking about a Fangio scheme.

And he said he needs really good edge rushers, right, for that scheme. That's why it was so good in Chicago. They traded for Khalil Mack, and it changed that defense. right? And that was a trade where they gave it, what, two first-round picks to get Cleo Mac? Now, Cleo Mac was like 25 at the time. But you were talking about your best edge, your best edge rusher. The way you framed it just now is perfect. The problem isn't Hassan-Radic dropping. He drops sometimes with Gannon, right? The problem is not maximizing his ability as a pass-rusher. I also think, yeah, there's a big difference between he's dropping and you're rushing three defensive tackles instead, as opposed to he's dropping and like the nickel is coming instead and you're confusing the offense, right?

Yeah, so if you're saying like, well, let's trade Hassan Redick and let's sign Andrew Van Ginkle because he can drop in Fangio's defense. I'm saying that's ridiculous. Like trade Hassan Reddick. The only reason I- Well, and also in theory, that is what Nolan Smith should be able to do. If Nolan Smith is, you know, set. 70% of Hassan Redick as a pass rusher, but is happily going to play in space, then that's fine. Yeah, agreed.

Agreed. The only justifiable reason for me to trade Hassan Redick is that he wants $25 to $30 million a year, and we can't fit that within our cap structure, and we can get good compensation now. I think the justifiable reason is we have this value on the player, and we're getting more value than they have. That's the only thing. I don't want to hear he's a one-trick pony. I don't want to hear he can't drop in Fangio's scheme. No, nothing about the player that he is.

To me, it's too good to pass up. I think that's totally reasonable. It's that you have to pay Hassan Redick next year to be here, you know, 10 to 12 million more than what he makes now. And if you're able to get premium picks and you have a good backup plan, if you think Bryce Huff can be 75% of the player, and you can bring in Bryce Huff, and then you can use the second and third round pick

to get your linebacker or safety or whatever. Okay, I will listen then, but don't come to me and say, yeah, he's declining or he's only, he's just speed rusher, that's all. No, he's an elite player from my perspective. Well, Zuck, speaking of deals that are too good to pass up,

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Yes. Yeah, a little, yeah, there was a conversation there about that. Much of family's dismay? No, I'm not saying that. But he did fall asleep. Okay. And I tried waking him up with two minutes to go. I try waking him up before the last minute.

Hey, let's make this the best year ever. I tried waking him up before the field goal, and then I tried waking him up in overtime. and then I just carried him up. Like a little Lombardi trophy. But it was, it was awesome watching with him. And he had some good questions. He was rooting for the Niners.

Oh. Because he's like, well, they're in the NFC, and he's an Eagles fan. That's his rationale. So I'm like, it's kind of old school of him. You know, like that. It's like those people who root for the NL and the All-Star game. But that was his rationale. But yeah, it was cool watching them.

My daughter was pumped about Tower Swift. She got a lot of FaceTime, and I drove my daughter to school this morning. We listened to Taylor Swift on the way. Okay. How about Usher? How did Usher go over? Actually, we switched to the Nickelodeon halftime. Okay.

What were they doing? I actually was not watching it. Reed was watching. At that point, I was catching up on tweets because I didn't watch with a second screen last night. Typically, I do. But last night was like a very un-needed. Yeah, undistracted. Okay.

And I was having... A big party? A big Berman party? A lot of kids. Like, not that many adults, but a lot of kids. Okay. But was your TV a little off at the beginning? What do you mean? I mean, I don't want to throw any providers off under the bus here,

but the pixelation wasn't very good early on. I had a weird pixelation thing going on in, like, the fourth quarter for a little bit. Okay, yeah. I just assumed that that was, yeah, latency. Yeah, I upgraded to the 4K for this, and it did come on my money back for that. Yeah, it was not, did not appreciate that. Okay. What was the spread?

Cheese steaks, pizza wings. Down the middle. I like it. Yeah, cheese steak pizza wings. Where did you get the cheese steaks from? Johnny's, good spot. Good spot? Yeah, really good.

Very good. Nice. Well, you, how was your night? Night was good. Had some friends over. I made a chili. that was what I was happy with. Ah, interesting, okay.

Beef or veggie? Yeah, beef. There were some ground beef, some bison, and made a good chili paste. Okay. On the chilies that gave a little nice little heat. Nice. A little umami.

Okay. It was good. And what did you serve it with? Bowls. Okay, so it was just... Oh, there was bread. Like, was there corn bread? No corn bread, just regular bread.

Okay. Some wings. Some other stuff. That's a hearty, yeah. Got the pizza from Franzones. Shout out to that. I went different for pizza and cheese steaks. Okay.

Yeah, pizza from Franzones. Speaking of the game, we got to talk about Goose Wisely, how it all worked out. And I think for the very first time in Goose Wisely history, both golden eggs hit for the opposite person. So I had Rashi Rice TD, didn't go. But you got the Jaya Brown interception. How about that? Huge to give you a two-point lead to start off with. I had a 50-yard touchdown.

Didn't happen. you had the difference in points scored in the game would be lower or greater than the lowest jersey number to score a touchdown. And what a line this was that I created because the combined points of this game, 47, once it went to overtime, Super Bowl 58, obviously, which is the difference of? 47 and 58? Yes. 11. 11. Nice.

Marquez Valdez Scantling, 11. Oh, okay. So it does not hit, but it is exactly on. What a line. What a line. Vegas should hire you. Still 2-0-0-0. You have to move to Vegas, though, unfortunately.

Yeah, that's true. Travis Kelsey, 100 yards receiving, close but didn't happen. Christian McCaffrey, 100 yards rushing, close but didn't happen. Now I had three players, at least, throw a pass in this game. So the Jawan-Gennon pass hits for me to make a 2-1. You had three-plus shots of Jason Kelsey during the broadcast. did not happen. The

Joanne Jennings pass Yes. Like they didn't talk about on the broadcast seemed like very clearly either offensive pass interference or a legal man down the field like I don't know what was going on but their offensive linemen were blocking

while the ball was in the air like four yards down the field. Just putting that out there. Are you allowed to at the at that point? I don't think so. I was saying it wasn't. And then the guy's the guy's It was held as like a great play. It was floating up there.

Yeah, I know. Very intercepted. Well, that's why, because they were blocking the guy who was going to make the play. All right, so it's two to one. I had, Javon Hargrave has at least a half sack. Hits for me, you had Patrick Mahomes rushes for at least 27 yards on one play. He had two rushes of 20 yards, but did not hit. So two to two.

A kick hits the uprights. What a huge one for me in overtime when the kickoff. The kickoff hits the crossbar. That's a kick. So that's three to two. All right. That's very Nolan Smithish, but okay. No, it's not.

This is a kick that hit the uprights. I mean, it's very rare that a kickoff would hit the uprights, but obviously that counts. Is that not a kick? Just like Nolan Smith was the first round pick? I mean, let's not go down that road just yet. You had a prime number wins MVP. Did not happen, Patrick Mahomes.

So it's still three to two me. Now, you did your Golden Goose probably ill-advisedly on I had quarterback MVP. You had non-quarterback MVP. So I get two points there because I had quarterback MVP, which makes it five to two. I wasn't playing defense. I was just playing offense. Yes. And then you had the game is tied at the end of any quarter, which hits.

And I had a team wins by at least 14 points. So five to three, the final score, goose wisely for me, wrapping up a successful season. Congratulations. Well earned. Thank you very much. Yes. Last thing we need to talk about. You mentioned earlier we had all the videos from...

Yes. 30. Credit to Julia. By the way, sorry, I wasn't following you on Twitter, Julia. I mean neither. You tagged her this morning, and I hit the follow button. I didn't even know that Julie was on Twitter. Just lurking.

And you, now you took it upon yourself, Zach, to tweet out 10 videos of the 30, which included, I believe, the most passive-aggressive thing I've ever seen you do. Passive-aggressive? Yes. The Clay Harbor one? Yes. Including Clay Harbor, that interview in the best ten interviews of the week. No, it wasn't the best ten.

It wasn't the best ten. So. There is whatever you're going to. Whatever you know explain away here, there is no way that that was not done pointedly and passive-aggressively. No, it was not at all done pointedly. And no, no, it was not. Honestly, if you notice. There's no context in which that deserved to be in the top ten.

No, it wasn't. Wow. Geez. I mean, I got thick skin, but you're really pushing it on to me. So I wanted stuff that had to do with the team this year. Okay? Like the Eagles specifically. started off with like current Eagles.

Okay. And then I got it. And then I got into McNabb. And then I got into Todd Davis about Vic Fangio. And then Millie Caring about the players on the Eagles. And then Jvon Hargrave like so that, again, I didn't want to do media once. Okay. And I see this is why not media?

Wait, wait. And so then I did Billick on. But why did you choose not media? I was trying to get just like, I was trying to get players and coaches, right? Now, Todd Davis is a member of the media, but also. So then anyways, yeah, Clay Harbor, because it's about this year's team. But then at the end, I even said the Matt Ryan one is not Eagles related, but I included it. So I wanted, I was going to include like the Connor Orr one or the Adam Hogue one.

Yeah, great interviews. I didn't want to pick. Throwing Kalin and E.J. Smith over the ball. Yeah, and Kailen Kaler and E.J. Smith. But I didn't want to pick like one media member over it. I appreciated every media member's time. time. And then there were other, like, I love the Zaire Franklin one. That's the one that I felt like you really, you really went out of your way to not include

that interview on behalf of Clay Harbor. No, actually, Zaire Franklin was like my favorite one that we did. That's why I'm surprised you didn't have it. Because I wanted to stick. And there was a loop with Zaire Franklin to chasing Jelsea in this series team. I was trying to find ones that were like specific to the Eagles. And so that's why I included the Clay Harbor one because he talked about tight end to this off season. We are at a point now

where we're kind of shifting to offseason coverage. I promise you, it was not passive aggressive. A matter of fact, a matter of fact, I was going to include all 30, but then I'm like, man, I'm just going to get unfollowed like crazy here. If I've a, you know those people, it's like, well, you probably

don't follow like real estate Twitter or business Twitter or things like that. Okay. But it'll be like, it would be like 28 things that I learned this year about the market. And I'm like, who's reading a, like, I feel like right up rally, actually. No, but I'm just like, at that point,

right at story. Anytime somebody's imparting lessons they've learned, I feel like you're on the edge of your seat. I agree, but I don't like threads. Like, give me, you know, write a blog post, you know, sign up for substack or medium or something like that

and link to it there. So I actually thought the 10 this morning was a little aggressive, but I do think, first off, I'm going to shout out. I saw how hard joy it was working, doing all these clips. And it's, it's, it's, it's

shows and a lot of them were you on media night doing such a good job. But we had so much content, so much volume that I was afraid some of it might have gotten lost in the crack. So I did want to kind of get a decent number up there. It was, at what time was it, 630 this morning? I don't have the exact time. I was honestly just going through finding stuff relevant to the Eagles. And then I was like, well, I need to include the Matt Ryan one.

So that's what it was. It was about Eagles related things. and I didn't want to put media up there because I didn't want to pick between all these media people that we're friends with. I appreciate your explanation. Okay. I do not believe you.

All right, well, I'm telling you the truth. I mean, trust me. I'm not looking for any interview. I also think it's very funny for Clay Harbor to say that what the Eagles need is a tight end two. It would be like me saying what the Eagles really need is like a different beat reporter. Like, he's not campaigning for the job.

Well, I know. but it's like, it's very funny. Like, that's the, that's the prism through which you've used the team.

Like, I'm not looking for any interview where like the commenters point out, look how short sack is, okay? But, uh, I did think it was,

it was relevant. It was an interview. Thank you. I thought, I like Clay Harbor. I'm glad we got him. Yes. Thank you.

Thank you. Um, but if you want me to put in the DeAndre Carter one, I will be happy to do so. I didn't think the, the, the spirit of the thread, the spirit of the thread,

I thought the spirit of the thread you would have had Zaire Franklin as number nine there. I would love the Zaire Franklin. I retweet or shared the Zaire Franklin one independently over the weekend, right? I was looking for one specific to this year's team. That's why Britain Covey and D'Andre Swift were the top two, then Donovan, then Torrey Smith, Todd Davis talking about Fangio. Yeah, that's what it was. All right.

That'll do it for this episode of the post-Super Bowl P.H. El-O-Y Eagles podcast tomorrow. Big show. Flew World Order. Coming at you. We will have everybody who is a pending unrestricted or restricted free agent

for the Eagles with a couple other players who may be moved. Hassan Renick will be on that list. And we're going to rank them in our guess as to their likelihood of returning to the Philadelphia Eagles. So excited to do that. And let's hope the weather holds off because I'd love

being in studio. And I'll I'll push to come in the studio no matter what. But we got to see if the kids are home from school. We've got to figure that out. But yeah, I'm looking forward to being in studio talking about it. As do I. And in the meantime, there is all that good stuff. You can catch up on from last week at Radio Row for Julia and Zach and all of our friends on real estate Twitter.

We thank you for watching and listening. We will talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you. We're all sitting like the mayor.