PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Kenny Pickett or Justin Fields? Did the Philadelphia Eagles make the right choice?

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

Clearly, the NFL did not value Justin Fields as much as the Chicago Bears were hoping. But in the search for a backup quarterback, the Eagles opted for Kenny Pickett over Fields, going for cost control over upside. Was that the right move? Would Fields have brought more cohesion with the offense?Zach Berman and Bo Wulf debate the Eagles’ decision and discuss the addition of linebacker Oren Burks. If the Devin White-Burks combo a significant upgrade over Zach Cunningham and Nicholas Morrow? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jack Berman here after the Eagles did a little bit of business over the weekend we can talk about. And also we can frame the Kenny Pickett trade. As we now know what Justin Fields went for, the Eagles opting to go for Kenny Pickett over Justin Fields. Zach, how was your weekend? Nice weekend. Some Eagles activity. Not as interesting as the conversation before the start of the show today, but that's okay. Some Eagles activity on Saturday evening.

that that was my Saturday night. I had some good time with the family. Got a chance to watch Temple almost get in the Unstivway tournament. Very close. You went to the game? No, I watched it. Oh, you had a chance to watch a game on television. It was like 34 people at the game, right?

And then selection Sunday last night. Who do you like? Throwing out the brackets. You know what? I don't want to get you. I was thinking maybe like Wednesday we can do the brackets together. But my... Should do some kind of tournament?

Yeah. Some kind of bracket competition. My tease is I got a blue blood going all the way. Oh, you don't say. You don't say. What a surprise. Well, that's a sequel. No, because, I mean, Houston's one of the favorites.

I don't have Houston going all the way. I have one of the blue bloods. So you will see. I mean, nothing could possibly be less surprising than you saying, oh, I've got one of the blue bloods going all the way. I mean, there's things that would be less surprising. that but yeah I mean I didn't watch as much college troops this year as I did in the past but I watched enough to have a team that I've been eyeing throughout and so we'll we'll see how they do okay before we get into the Eagle stuff and we want to talk about the quarterback choice let's let's address the elephant in the room here last time I wore this shirt on on the show you told me that I think I didn't tell me who but the the reviews from the people who cover the team was I should not wear that shirt on the show anymore.

Was that the shirt? This was the shirt, yeah. So, you know what? I could choose to listen to that or I could thumb my nose at it and say, you know what, let's own it. This shirt's going to still be a part of the rotation, so here it is.

Well, you're going to be at the Kenny Pickett press conference today, so maybe I thought you were wearing it for pit colors, for Pickett. I would not call these pit, colors. Yeah. Pit, not Pittsburgh Steelers, pit. Yeah. Pit is yellow. This is orange. That's gold.

What are you talking about? That looks gold to me. That looks more gold than orange. Andrew, what do you think? Gold or orange? Chat, chime in. Gold. This is a light orange for sure. Andrew thinks gold. Andrew thinks gold. Thank you. Andrew. People, I don't know. I mean, I think it looks different with under the lights than it does in my eye, but

thank you. You looked at me incredulously. Because in my mind it doesn't look anything like pit colors. Yeah, that's... Like down here, this is orange. When I think orange... No, when I think orange, I think Syracuse orange. Right?

I think of flowers. You do, but there are different shades of orange. I think of the flyers and the phantoms behind you. That's the orange that comes to my mind when I think of orange. I think this is more of like a... That's not even like a burnt orange. It is. It's closer to like a Texas burnt orange.

Than a gold? Yeah, that's closer to gold. It's not gold. Actually, on the... on the screen, it looks more gold than it does in person, I think. The color of victory. I thought that's why you're wearing it.

Okay. So it's here. But it's interesting that you said that was the elephant in the room because that that's like the smallest elephant that one could. I had no idea. I'm going to get to the, I am assuming it was E.J. Smith who told you this.

You know what? A man can never, or a reporter could never reveal the sources. So I would not say we were not on the record when that came up or But you were you were probably on background You weren't off the record either Yeah we were probably on background right?

Okay Because I brought it up to you so why don't you explain the difference to people Between gold and orange No between on background and off the record Okay off the record is something that cannot be used On back in any way Yes Unless you were able to report it elsewhere

Yes On background means that you can use it But you can't attribute it So on background's essentially not for attribution You hear that that phrase and then there's deep background. On backgrounds, like let's say you're talking to somebody else in the league, right, who is giving you their thoughts about a transaction or something like that

or the reasoning for it, but you can't, you say you can explain that you may have heard this, but it's not, as you said, for attribution. No, but you can say per source on background. And then on deep background, it has to be, now I'm going back to my journalism school days, deep backgrounds like pHLI is learned, right? It's not even per source or per documents. It's like pHLI is learned, yeah. Okay.

And then off the record? Off the record can't be used. Now, off the record's helpful because sometimes you know what not to report, right? Or you can, I don't know, there's, there's, you can kind of take it and try to craft your cover. in a certain way, but you can't expressly use it. But sometimes these things are kind of misunderstood. That's what I was going to say. How can you be so sure that the person you're talking to understands the difference

from a journalism standpoint? So you kind of run it by someone and you get a sense of what they are talking about. But often I will try to clarify the language that I use, right, to them. Like, can I use your name? Can I use this as like a source close to the situation? or a leak source, can it not be used at all? So, yeah, so if it's someone that you're dealing with for the first time or that kind of wants clarification, you go through that.

Okay. All right, Sack, you want to talk? I hope I got that right. I hope so, too. Yeah. Hope for your sake. Yeah, because we're on the record every time we're on the show. I feel like we're mostly on background.

That's definitely not the case. This is live. This is recorded. This is archived. anyone can find anything my son watches youtube for every type of highlight and uh he he knows what's going on just from youtube you heard about this uh this mr beast yeah have you heard mr beast i mean it is his i'm trying to get p hl y's shows to mr beast level take some time but i mean you're not trying hard enough if you're not willing to go nude go

nude like a man must have a code and i'm really trying that hard yeah man must have a code all right Let's talk about Justin Fields. Do you have in front of you what the terms of the trade were for Justin Fields to the Pittsburgh Steelers? Let me pull that up in front of me here. But I believe it was, well, I believe it's a 20, 25, 6th round pick. That can become a fourth round pick. Justin Fields plays at least 61% of the games. I'm sorry, 51% of the games.

Of the snaps, rather. Okay. Now, the Eagles, obviously, traded for Kenny Pickett. They moved down from a late third round pick to a mid-fourth-round pick and are sending two future seventh-round picks. Depends on the trade chart you look at, but the value of that is basically somewhere between a fourth-round pick and a fifth-round pick.

So presuming that Justin Fields doesn't start every single game, the Eagles gave up more for Kenny Pickett than the Steelers did for Justin Fields. There are a couple of reasons that might be. They have a second year of team control for a backup quarterback at a relatively cheap salary compared to the market for Pickett, whereas Fields, you would have to make a decision on the fifth-year option.

But how do you sort of view that decision? Because we know that they reportedly checked in on Justin Fields, and I know that there are some people saying, well, Justin Fields chose the Steelers. That's not really how this worked. And by the way, he chose the Steelers because the Eagles traded for Kenny Pickett, so there was an opening there.

I would feel pretty confident saying that Justin Fields would have welcomed a trade to Philadelphia if that was the case. Well, so actually, let's address that latter point first, because this is something that you're hearing, that the bears let him decide where to go. Look, Ryan Poles and Ian Cunningham and McCaskies, they might be like the nicest group of people. I've never heard an NFL business being like, we're not going to take a trade that's significantly better because you don't want to go in that place. Yeah, I mean, maybe if the terms were the same. Exactly.

Yeah. Exactly. So my guess on this is this is what the valuation from the league was. The league, you know, that they wanted more, they tried getting more. I thought they were going to get more. They did not get more. This is how the league valued Justin Fields. And at that point, it's a matter of like where is he going to go. And so you heard the Steelers and the Raiders were like preferred destinations. I guess those were teams that had the best path to a starting job. I mean, I am surprised at how absent the market was for him. I don't understand why he would rather pay Sam Darnold $10 million. Sure. Or if you're the Giants, I would rather trade for Fields than sign Drew Locke and have Fields compete with Daniel Jones.

And I can go on for a few teams here, from the Patriots, right? I would probably rather Fields than Jacoby-Bissette. Right now, they're probably going to draft. Assuming they don't draft the court, they might have decided they're going to draft someone at number three. But the 50, so, and this kind of gets into the other part of the discussion. There's the, excuse me, there's the evaluation of him as a player, which is nuanced, it's subjective.

It seems to Lee doesn't value him as much as fans and the media might. But then there's also the contract here. See, you're basically getting him for one year. A team's not going to pick up the fifth year option. That's a $25 million commitment. If he gets hurt, you're owed that. right you're guaranteed that so it's not a team is is most likely going to decline that fifth year option that's what the eagles would have done they would have declined the fifth year option so at that point what you're doing is you're trading for a backup for one year it's essentially like having a backup quarterback on a one year contract do you want to give up a draft pick for a backup quarterback on a one year contract well the Eagles did that last year for DeAndre swift on the last year of his deal for starting running back but i think with kenny picket the big appeal is you get him for two years so you're giving up

a pick that the value of the pick depends on the draft chart you might look at but he's locked in for two years at an affordable rate which would not be the case with Fields and Fields would be a free agent at the end of next season and then I assume he would want to

sign with a place that he has a better chance of competing for a job than in Philadelphia and that's with the presumption that Jayland Hertz remains the quarter stays healthy remains the quarterback Yeah I mean would you say that you think Justin Fields is a better player than Kady Pickett?

I would rather have Justin Fields. I've seen Justin Fields more. I'm probably anchored, and there's no surprise here, by the fact that I saw Justin Fields a lot in college. I really liked him at Ohio State. I think he's a dynamic player. Now, the results have been underwhelming as a passer, and I don't consider wins and losses a quarterback stat,

per se, but I also think, you can look when your team loses games and you're the quarterback you're not making enough winning plays and when your team wins games and you're the quarterback then you're you're not making enough losing plays if you will right like a quarterback can lose a game for you with turnovers with not taking you know with with with game situations and then a quarterback can win a game for you with outstanding performance now there's so many other things that that go into it including the personnel around you, the coaching. But it's just the reality.

And Justin Fields, in these past three years, the bears have not been particularly good. Yeah, I mean, these are two very different types of quarterbacks. They have both been not very good over the course of their careers thus far over the past two seasons. EPA per dropback out of 38 quarterbacks, Kenny Pickett is 32nd. Justin Fields is 26th. So the level of play is about the same,

but we're talking about, like, Kenny Pickett is very much low ceiling, high-ish, like, medium floor, and there's much more variability with Justin Fields. You know, he gets sacked at a historically alarming rate. The 38th out of 38 quarterbacks on that sack rate, it's like it's crazy how often he gets sacked. He also throws more turnovers. He's 36th of 38 in interception percentage, whereas Kenny Pickett is eighth in interception percentage. But Justin Fields is also going to make a lot more. or big plays that Kenny Pickett is, you know.

His air yards per attempt are fourth of those 38, Kenny Pickett's 27th. You know about Kenny Pickett having this very low touchdown percentage. Like, I don't really love the idea that if you're going to try to sell me that like, well, a backup quarterback, a number two quarterback, he would rather have the predictability. I don't know that I agree

with that. I'd rather have the better player. And if you think Justin Fields is a better player, I would rather have him. But I think it really does sort of come down to the two years of team control. Is that a factor for you? Is what? Like would you rather have the better backup quarterback for one year or the marginally worst backup quarterback for two years? Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it sort of does come down to how they feel about Tanner McKee. Okay. And like if I don't love Tanner McKee, then yeah, I would like to, in a vacuum, I would rather have it locked in for two years. I think that's certainly a factor. Tell me this, do you think that there is a thinking in the

Eagle's mind of if Jalenhurts struggles for the first month of the season, nobody's calling for Kenny Pickett to take over. But if Jalen Hurts struggles and Justin Fields is behind him, maybe there are all of a sudden rumblings that you've got a bit of a bit of a quarterback controversy. I don't think so. First of all, I think that'd be a poor way for the team to think. And second off, I think that'd be a poor way for a team to make a decision as well. By you asking it, I'm assuming you think that's a factor? Or do you think it could be a factor? I think that that is true. I don't know that. I don't know that I think that they brought that into account. Yeah. Now, as a branch off of that, and we can have that conversation with this one, and this is one that has come up in the past with Nixiriani. Do you think

stylistically your backup should be similar to your starter? Yeah, I don't think that it has to be. And I actually think that this comes down to part of the reason that Justin Fields had a more tepid market than expected. I think a lot of times coaches are lazy. And if you trade for Justin Fields, you got to like design a different offense around him. Whereas if you sign Sam Darnold for $10 million, you don't have to change your offense. He can run your stuff. I think that's a real part of it. And like, oh, well, Justin Fields doesn't play the game the way that I want it to be played.

Of course it is. But I think that's a real thing. then that's a problem with, that's the problem with coaches. If that's the case. I agree. The whole purpose of coaching is to maximize the talent you have, not to get talent that kind of fits within your structure. Well, yeah, but I mean, you've been around the league long enough to know that that's not the case.

That's not the case. No, I agree with you. Everywhere at least. I agree with you. So that's why you think the market was, was tough. I think that's a factor. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, obviously the league does not think that he is that good. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about that. Yeah. I mean, he's been available. To believe that. Right. Exactly.

You know, he has not been very good. But, and I actually, I also think that, like, the idea that he has some crazy untapped upside is probably overstated. But I would believe, like, you know, listen, we saw Nick Foles do it. But let's say Jalen Hertz gets hurt before the playoffs. I would much more believe that, like, Justin Fields could lead them to a Super Bowl than Kenny Pickett. Yeah, I agree with that. And this goes to something that you said earlier, which is. what you're looking for in a backup quarterback.

Like, I want the guy who's going to make defensive coordinators worry, you know, that, oh, shoot, this guy's in their game plan this week. What are we changing? What do we have to account for? What's different? If Kenny Pickett, I wrote this in our analysis grades on Saturday night, if Kenny Pickett is Gardner Minchew, meaning, you know, Gardner Minchew won them a critical game in, in in in in in in in 2020 he did not play i'm sorry in 2021 he did not play particularly well in 2022 played decently in dallas played poorly against the saints um but the thought with gardner minchew was was that all right here's a here's a solid quarterback who can get rid of the ball

quickly who can move around in the pocket who uh if if you have top talent around him he can he can like be the point guard and if you can he can like be the point guard and if you think that's what Pickett can become, then I imagine that has validity. But if there was one game, and you wrote this the other day, if there was one game, if Nick Foles, or I'm sorry, if Jaywin-Hertz gets injured before a Super Bowl and you have to go to the backup in the Super Bowl, I would rather have Justin Fields in that game than Kenny Pickett. Yeah, I agree with you. And so why do you think that they didn't go that way? Do you think it just comes down to the second year of control? Yeah, I think the second year of control, because there's,

I mean, first off, it gives you certain. And that's just control, cheap control. Yes, exactly. You're looking at $2 million and then about $2.6 million, right? Which is very affordable for a backup quarterback. I put in our analysis with some of the backups have gone for in terms of average per year. And in some cases, you know, they got more guaranteed money than the average per year. But like Tyrod Taylor, I think he's at $6 a year, $6 million a year with $8 million guaranteed.

And Jacoby Percette, he got $8 million guaranteed. or I'm sorry, he got $8 million this year. Even like the lower end of the backups, your Mason Rudolph, you're Mitchell Tribisky, they're getting more than what you're paying Kenny Pickett the next two years. So this is a factor for the Eagles, especially because G. Owen Hertz,

the contract doesn't swell right now, but it's bigger than it's been in the past four years and it's going to continue to go up. So now you have a cost-controlled backup for the next two years. So I think that's one factor. And then the other thing is there's theoretical optionality. Now, you don't know if that will come to bear.

But let's say Kenny Pickett needs to step in for three games this year. It looks good. Plays like a first-round pick, right? Then next offseason, the Eagles could turn and trade Kenny Pickett, which you wouldn't do with which, which you, I guess you would not do with Justin Fields, number one. There's more upside on the return. Yes.

The highest upside on a return for Justin Fields would be if he came in, played great, and then he signs elsewhere, and you get at best a third round of comic. Exactly. That's not impossible. But it would take a team to really commit to him being their starting quarterback for you to get that third round compick. Right. And the flip side, although not necessarily, because even a low-end start like, you know, a $15 million a year deal would might get to a third round pick. Yeah, but you're not going to get the Sam Darnold deal this year. It's not going to get you a third round compick. It needs to be 15 to 20 million. Right. But.

As you said, there is a chance of getting an actual tangible return directly for Kenny Pickett in the offseason. That's true. That is an upside that exists. And I think that is a factor that they consider. Now, your point about Geoen Hertz, I hear that. One would hope that Geoen Hertz is mentally tough enough in the fan base and the media corps is like understanding, like has a nuanced understanding of this to know that Kenny Pickett's not a real threat for Jalen Hertz, would Justin Fields be more of a threat for John Hertz.

But I suppose that there could be more of a call for Justin Fields based on, I guess, the draft pedigree, the top line performance, I guess. I mean, he was a thousand-yard rusher, right? Like, that's hard to do it. Yeah, but how many 60 catch seasons? Well, he's never played receiver. He didn't have Bill Pollian. That's his junior.

I do think. You just let the Bill Pollian joke. Well, I'm sorry. Do you disagree that that would be the case with Fields as the backup as opposed to pick it? I mean, I can see. I think from the team side, no. But yeah, maybe from a public reaction side, perhaps. I think that is definitely how the public at some point would react if that was the way the things were going.

Even if you gave up a six rounder for. And I think there's probably a better chance of that happening in the locker room with Justin Fields. Yeah. Yeah, maybe so. I mean, Justin Fields was also enormously popular. among his, his Bears teammates. I like the deal for the Steelers. I was surprised by that price.

I thought Fields was going to go for more. I've seen worse quarterbacks or similar quarterbacks go for second round picks and third round picks. You know what I think one of my biggest takeaways from the soft season is seeing the Brian Burns trade, seeing this Justin Fields trade. Like, be a seller at the trade deadline. because the prices are much more friendly than they seem to be in the offseason. You know what, that's a great point. I haven't thought about that until you said it,

but I can definitely see a situation where, like, if we workshop that, if you think that out, when a team's making a trade at a deadline, they're acting with the motivation of like, all right, this is going to help us right now, right? These GMs are probably not, they're not deep into their draft evals yet. At this time of year,

these guys were just at the combine, like they've had these meetings with their scouts, they start to have ideas of what they can do with their picks. Like when you're in October or early November, if it gets moved, then you're not thinking of like your first round pick next April as player X, right? But now these guys are thinking of their first round pick as player X. And so if you're the Giants, would you rather have, have Brian Burns or would you rather have, let's say, like, Malik neighbors at number six, right? And you're saying, I don't want to give up the sixth pick here. Also, you don't know what that

pick's going to become. Like when the Dolphins trade for Bradley Chubb, they're expecting to make a push for the postseason, right? They're not in, and they did make the postseason, but they're not expecting the same way when the Panthers are trading their future first-round pick, and it's much easier to get a future first-round pick because teams aren't thinking, what if that pick becomes the number one pick in the track, right? Well, and I think that's part of it. There's a more defined buyer and sellers, right? Because in the off season, everybody is theoretically competing this season.

And so if you are trading somebody, it's like, well, this is a distressed asset, right? They don't want it for a reason, whereas if you're out of the playoff hunt, you have something to sell. It's not that you want to get rid of it. It's just that you might as well. And the teams you want to buy are more motivated because they have a short-term thing to chase. That's a really good point. I made a trade in my Fantasy Hoops League a few weeks ago where I gave up a pick that I was not looking to give up.

There's crossover listeners between this show and another show. They would know what I'm referring to. Who did you trade for? I trade for Zion. Okay. And I did not want to give up my second round pick. And I finally worked out an exchange that I was okay with, or I gave up my second, but I got a fourth back.

The pick spread was farther apart. But anyways, this is, I'm saying it because of this. What did you need to deal with? I made to deal with Levin. So, the... You took you to the woodshed. Yeah, I mean, because, well, this is what happened, okay? I said on our show a few months ago that I was in trade negotiations that I ghosted

the guy because, you know, I was not looking to give up what he was asking for. And then this got back to them. Oh. Now, here, I mean, why be so? Yeah, they said I wasn't trying to say the name. It's not that at all. My favorite Sixers podcast, without a doubt, is the P.H.L.I. Sixers show.

Listen to it, love it. Great. They do great work. Okay. I have great respect for the rights to Ricky Sanchez show. Okay. And that's what this was. All right.

So this came up on the right. This is a lot of pressure for you right now because you know that they're going to watch this. You know that they're going to have a reaction to this. So you really have to have your T's crossed and your eyes. it. Yeah, so anyways, so the right, so they talked about it on the rights to the Ricky show. And, and they like framed it as like, like, I didn't want to like give them credit. It wasn't that at all. I was trying to be like respectful of our shows here, right? Did they take umbrage or did did he take umbrage at you ghosting him? No, he, we joked about it over email. Um, okay.

But anyways, let me get to the point here. Is it known around the league that that's something you're willing to do? No, I'm actually very good at responding typically, but. So it was just a shot at Levin that you were doing. You were... Yeah. It wasn't a shot. It was just like... Wow, you were sending a message.

It was just like, I don't want to give up my second round pick. Like, I didn't want it. So anyways... But he ended up getting that second round pick off of you. So anyways, well, the pick spread was quite... It was like a... But at the time we discussed it, I was getting, like, a sixth round pick back, right? So the pick spread made it a better.

But anyways, let me get back to what I was saying. It feels like you got out negotiated. Yeah, okay. All right, thanks, Bill. Anyways, someone in our league said, they compliment me on the trade, and I said that was tough to give up. And they said, you have a chance to win this year, okay? Worry about next year, next year.

Might not be next year. Well, I think NFL teams at the deadline probably think similarly in that, like we'll worry about April and April, right? Let's focus on making a run right now. And that is your point about the deadline versus making a trade right now. So how close are you to winning a title now? Playoff start tonight, man. Really?

Playoff start tonight. Yep. Yeah. And you have Zion along for the ride? Yes, and he's been rolling recently. You know, I just saw a report today. He lost 20 plus pounds. So he's been over the weekend?

No, in the last month or two. And it's showing in his production. So let's keep this up, Zion. Wow. He's holding off from that second peanut butter and jelly sandwich. One other thing that Zion might be doing to you know, make sure that he doesn't balloon up, is sucking him back with the boys.

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Download game time today. Less minute tickets, lowest price. Guaranteed. All right. Anything else on the backup quarterback conversation? Yeah. So the last thing I would say is that the Eagles might very well think that pick us a better player. Right?

Like we talk about all this stuff with the price. There's a chance the Eagles look at Pickett, and they say that they liked him coming out of Pitt, perhaps, that he was in a bad offense for him in Pittsburgh, maybe, right? Matt Canada perhaps didn't maximize him, that he has more mobility than he showed. He was accurate at Pitt. He wasn't especially accurate with the Steelers, but that there's something there that they can tap into. And I don't know if. I'm sure part of the conversation is what is coachable and what is not, right?

And so if you think that Justin Fields' pension for getting sacks is something that you're never really going to get rid of, or his interceptions is like something that you can improve a little bit, but it's not really going to materially change, then that's one thing. And maybe pick it if he has a professional offensive coordinator designing things and a good offensive line and really good weapons, then maybe he has a little bit more upside. I'm not sure I totally agree with that, but it's a way that you could think. And that's the only thing that I just want to say here is that we and I think fans in the media sometimes just presume that, all right, Fields is better than pick it.

That's not the way the Eagles might view it inside the building. Now, on the Tanner McKee front, you know, the Eagles do not need to like make their roster decisions based on the value of a sixth round pick. but the upside of that pick when they took it was that you would have a cheap backup quarterback and now if you have Pickett for two years now maybe they trade Pickett in the offseason but that's really only one year of that number two quarterback if McKee gets to that level that's not ideal

but now you could also make the case that if you look at it as the cost of your backup quarterback is McKee Plus picket that's another way to look at it so you know you're not really spending a lot of money but one season in when it looked like Tanner McKee had a really good preseason and you're bringing in a guy who's definitely ahead of him. I don't love that. It's simplistic to put it this way, but based on if you use like 2017 as your frame of reference,

then pick it's Nick Foles and McKee is Nate Sutfield. Like you're still developing him. If something happens with the starting quarterback, you're not going and signing a third quarterback like you trust mckee to kind of step in as the backup there but you don't think he's quite ready to be the number two i would have stacked the deck for mckee uh but i can understand it given the price here okay all right uh let's talk about the other move the eagles made this weekend zack signing orrin burkes the linebacker from the san francisco 49ers to a one-year deal worth reportedly about two and a half million dollars what do you know about mr burke's so

So a sixth-year player, when he's going in the year seven, four years with the Packers, two years with the Niners, was a third-round pick in Green Bay, has mostly been a special team's guy, but he's coming off his most time playing defense last year. He started some games. He played, what, like 40% of the snaps for the Niners over thereabouts on defense, and he stepped in for Drake Greenlaw in the Super Bowl. He was their next man up at linebacker, has a good athletic profile. but you're probably looking at him as a steady reserve slash special teams guy at this point. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, he did not have a good Super Bowl when he had to step in for Dre Greenlaw. He was a little bit exposed there, and it's probably really telling that the Niners who have to

replace Drey Greenlaw this season had Oren Berks in the building and went out and signed Devon Dre Campbell and Jalen, it's a hyphenated name, but it's not Jailen Roobs-Maven. It's not Rives-Maven. It's Demetrius Flanagan fouls. Oh, okay. So they went out and signed two linebackers because they didn't want Orrin Burke's back, and they knew him. So if you're thinking about the upside on defense,

it's probably not that high, but you could also make a case that he could still be better than Nicholas Morrow, which I think is totally fair. I think it's worth noting. Now, my understanding is that he is not as good on special teams as he once was, like when he was on that rookie contract with the Packer. but this is the first time, really, since the Eagles hired Michael Clay,

that they have signed veteran special teamers between Berks and Zach Bonn. That just, like, has not been what they've done before. So it's at least interesting. Yeah. And I think I wrote this the other day. Take your shot if you're playing a drinking game with this, with me saying I wrote this the other day. Suck one back with the boys.

That if this was their linebacker signing, like if this was what Nicholas Morrow was last year, I would say, come on, right? If it's done in conjunction with Devin White, then all right, I'm okay with it. And so now you look at it. It's not apples for apples, and there's still a chance they can bring Zach Cunningham back.

Seth Cunningham's on the open market, has experience with Bobby King, the inside linebackers coach. But if you look at it, like you got Devin White and you got Orrin Burke's in place of Zach Cunningham and Nicholas Morrow, both all four of them are experienced players right the eagles weren't getting enough production certainly from more last year i thought cunningham was decent but now you get some theoretical upside in

in devon white and burkes is a steady player special team starting experience i guess which one would you would you prefer cunningham and morrow or white and burke's i mean probably white and burks but i don't I don't feel super confident about that. And I think Berks is like exactly the kind of level of veteran who we were saying that they should have signed last off season in addition tomorrow, even before they brought in Cunningham, just to provide a baseline of competency in the depth. I think Berks is fine. You know, I don't think that he is even assured of making the roster. I think linebacker remains a need for them. They haven't solved anything here in part because of the way that we talk about Nicopi Dean.

Like there are no guarantees there. I don't think that they're going to draft one high, but I think that they will add somebody on probably day three to compete and maybe also add a Zach Cunningham level player from Street Free Agency. Are you disappointed with how they approached linebacker this offseason? I don't know that I'm disappointed, but I do, to circle back on the conversation we had, which we sort of disagree about and like the level of Vic Fangio being involved here,

I just, I find it impossible to believe that from a relationship management, standpoint, Howie Roseman is going to, like, begin his relationship with Vic Fangio not giving him a linebacker that he wants. Like, I think that for whatever reason, you know, we thought that because Devin White had a pension for freelancing and a reputation for not being super reliable, that he would not be Fangio's kind of guy. But maybe Fangio thinks he's got the tools in his body that I have had with Roquan Smith before and guys like that, and I can get more out of him. I think that I just knowing how much money they had to spend, I don't believe that there's any way that

Howie Roseman is signing a linebacker who Vic Fangio is not interested in. And I will stick by my side of that conversation last week. It's that it's the player you're interested in at this price. I keep going back to the rental car comparison. You can get any of the guys on this row. You just can't get any of the guys on that row. Yeah, but the price is not that much different. And if, like,

well, it is from, like, Rick Fangio supposedly, like, did not get along with people in the building in Miami, right, to some degree. He's supposedly a cranky guy. That is his reputation. Yeah. You're going to start, like, you're going to start the relationship by giving him a linebacker he doesn't want.

No way. Absolutely not. He's not the GM. He can't just say, he can't just say, go spend. But he is coming in, like. But go get me, Patrick Queen. I mean, that's, that's. not. Well, but that's not exactly the same thing. There are, there were several linebackers in the

five to nine million dollar range. I'm not saying that Devin White was his number one choice. Yeah. But I am, I, I, I am sure that Devin White was a person that he wanted for some reason because they're not going to give Vic Fangio a linebacker he doesn't want. I agree with you there, but they're not going to give him the linebacker that he does want, if it's too, if it's more than they allocated to the position, right? Like, yeah, I don't think they are compromising the way they want to build the roster and the way they want to allocate resources at a given position based on Vic Fangio being here. I think part of it's saying, all right, which guy do you want here?

We will sign that player from this list, rank these guys, right? But. Yeah, I don't think we're disagreeing too much, really. I think that this is sort of semantics. Sure. But. It's just where you make that like, if you say there's live... Yeah, but I don't think if Vic Fangio says... Maybe it's like four to six or four to eight is like their number.

Yeah, but it's the same group of guys. Like, I don't think that Vic Fangio was like, I only want Patrick Queen or something like that. Like, that's, I don't think that's the case. And I also don't think that if Vic Fangio says, like, I want the guy for $7 million instead, how he's going to be like, well, actually, we don't spend... that much money on linebackers. Yeah.

So look, of the reported salary so far, right? You're basically talking about Patrick Queen and Bobby Wagner as we need to see all the end, you know, what Frank Louvo was. I guess Jordan Brooks. Jordan Brooks was a little bit more than that. But yeah, I don't know what their line of demarcation was. But I don't think that like, you know, Jerome Baker would have been within that that number. And clearly, he knows Jerome Baker.

Exactly. He absolutely chose Devin White over Jerome Baker. Exactly. Chose Devin White over Willie Gay. Right. So based on that, yeah, I hear what you're saying. And I need to think that, you know, one thing when you say you've been around coaches, coaches tend to think that there are the ones who can fix a player, right?

I can get this out of him, right? So we'll see. All right. Let me tell you now about Mortgage CF. because Mortgage CS offers refinancing options, including rate and term refinances for a rate payment reduction or cash out refinances to tap into home equity,

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Certain restrictions may apply. company NMLSID 1464766. Visit mortgagecs.com for more information. People are always asking us what's the best way to support the show and the answer is to become a PHLY diehard. The best part is there's a lot in it for you. When you become a diehard, you immediately get to choose a free shirt or hat of your choice

from the PHLY Locker, which is expanding and the distribution is going to be even better going forward. You'll also get another shirt or hat every single year at renewal. You also instantly get access to the PHLI Discord Lounge, the chat with other Philly sports fans away from all the BS on Twitter. I saw some of the Discord Lounge did not like my Rice Krispy Street grade. I saw that, I read it. Always check that. But I actually agree. I thought you were too harsh on Rice Krispy Street. It's delicious. I'll get to that in a second. After that, you unlock 20% of all merchant events for the entirety

of your time as a member. And those are just some of the perks of being a PHLI diehard. Head over to all p.hly.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. Yeah, so rice crispy treats, I'll give my quick thing. I like a rice crispy treat, but you're never going to a restaurant and like getting a rice crispy treat on the menu, number one. Well, yeah, but it was on an Oreo scale. We're not talking about like restaurant desserts necessarily. I thought it was on a dessert scale.

Yeah, but we're in the Oreo wheelhouse. So I was explaining desserts. You're not going to see it on a dessert menu. If you're at like a party where people are, you know, it's a potlough, people are bringing baked goods. It's not like the featured presentation. It's not like we have Rice Krispy Treats today. But it's on that table and you're happy to pick from it.

So that's, that was my analogy, is that you like when it's there. It's not your top option, but you're never disappointed by the Rice Krispy Treat. And it's also easy to get, like, the variance. You don't think you'll ever be disappointed by Orrin Burke's? Well, here, I'm just saying no one makes like a great Rice Krispy Tree. Rice Krisp Tries or Rice Krispy Tries. It's marshmallows and rice Krispies. There's no home-mey rice Krispies, I'm saying.

Like you're not making rice Krispies out of yours on your own. You're not making marshmallows on your own. You're using store-bought rice Krispies, store-bought marshmallows, store-bought butter, and you're putting them together. It's a very low-variance dessert. I mean, I disagree. Rice Krispy streets are indulgent and delicious. The Rice-Christby treat is a cheap,

Depth signing. Well, that's, that's a cheap dessert, Rice Krispy Treats. Right. Chris is not an indulgence. Orrin Berks is not an indulgence. Like, if you're, if I say I'll, I'll bring you in cake. Rice Krispy Street is like, oh, I shouldn't do this. Like, I know that this is not good for me.

Like, I shouldn't, but, oh. If I'm bringing you. I really want to, because that is really good. If you say. That's not Oregon Berks. If you say Beau or if you say you're having a fashion party, can you bring something, Zach? And I say, It's a fashion party.

I don't know. I was referring to your gold and blue shirt. But what is that? What is a fashion party? A fashion show. You have... Here's an example. You're having a fashion party.

What? You're just trying to rope in the shirt into the conversation. Yeah, yeah. A March Madness party, okay? And you say, Zach, can you bring a cake? Okay, I can spend hours... I don't think they have a lot of cakes at fashion parties. I can spend...

I've never been to a fashion party. I'll have to refer to you. You can spend hours baking a cake. You can buy the Betty Crocker and just just whip that. You can go to the store and get a cake. Just whip that. I'm saying that a rice crispy treat is basically the, like you were rice crispy treat and Andrew's Rice Krispy Treat and my Rice Krispy Treat will be comparable Rice Krispy Treat.

The only variance is how long we keep them in the oven for. And maybe our ratio of Rice Krispies and marshmallows. What? I think I would make a better one. I have no doubt you would think that. I did want to ask you about the Vikings shirt. I was trying to refer to your shirt. You started, it's the open in the room.

I had to bring it up. You did say it was the outfit in the room. We're tight on time today because we have a Kenny Pickett press conference, but I just wanted to ask you your thoughts. I inadvertently have worn Kenny Pickett colors, I guess, for his press conference. And we're also going to hear from Devante Parker. You have dressed with the shirt you're wearing underneath is just a big middle finger. No, I respect

Monta Parker for a first-round pick, right? Anyways, the Vikings trade with Houston to move up in the draft, okay? Yes, they sent, they sent... I have it right here. Minnesota sent 42, their second round pick, and 188, which is a sixth round pick, and a 2025 second round pick

for number 23 overall and a seventh round pick 232. Exactly. And considering where the Eagles were drafting, you have to assume that the Eagles got off for this deal too. Right. Right? And the Eagles said no, presumably. Would you have taken this?

Would you have rather 42 and a second rounder next year? And then move up from the 7th and 6th, although that's kind of inconsequential to me, for the Eagles' first round pick this year? So I am generally always down for trading down, acquiring more picks. You're usually going to come out on top, more bites at the apple.

And if you look at the trade chart, if you look at the Rich Hill one rather you come out on top making this as long as that future second is like one of the top 25 picks in the second round which I think given Minnesota you would feel pretty good about those chances

however just like the the Eagles where they are in like the life cycle of their franchise now knowing that they already have two second round picks it's not like having an extra second round pick is going to like juice the value that much

And for them to not get a pick until 42, you would be probably sitting there itchy to trade up from there anyway and package one of your other seconds. I think I probably wouldn't do this, even though I recognized that it was probably good business. Yeah, 20 picks is... I would like to see how... I would not do this in March. Sure. 20 picks is a far way to go. When needles have moved down in the past or moved out of the first round in the past, you look at the St.

St. St. St. St. or two years ago, they got a future first. That makes it a no-brainer. I would move from the first of the second and get a future first. And they had other first-round picks. Yeah. This is probably more comparable to the Ravens deal that the Eagles made in 2018 draft when they were drafting 32. I think when you're drafting where the Eagles are,

you're going to get one of the top 20 players in your board, presumably, right? I would want to see how the draft is playing out first. Exactly. But this would really make me think because I like the idea of having three seconds this year and two seconds next year. Sure, but no first. They know first this year. Yeah, I think that's not what they want to do.

Well, obviously, it's not what they want to do. But I think, I understand not taking that deal. Sure. Okay. All right, well, anything else you want to talk about, Zach? Or you want to get going to Kenny Pickett? There's a lot that I want to talk about, but we have five shows this week. It's going to be a great week of shows.

And Kenny Pickett is talking. Maybe he'll be a few minutes late, and we will be there. Also, Devonte Parker. You'll find all your coverage on all p.gly.com. We'll watch those interviews probably on the Eagles social media stream. Watch out for Zach. He'll be the one booing Devante Parker. I would never compromise my journalist's integrity in such a fashion. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.LY. Eagles podcast.

Thanks to everybody for watching and listening. We will talk to you tomorrow at noon. And as always, we love you.