PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Linebacker and defensive tackle options for the Philadelphia Eagles in the NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

We’re one week away from the draft, and it’s time to focus on two contradictory positions from a Howie Roseman preference perspective. His kink, defensive tackle, seems like a long shot after back-to-back first-round picks spent on Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis. But could Texas’ Byron Murphy II tempt him? Then his ick, linebacker, remains a need despite the offseason addition of Devin White. What does Vic Fangio want there? Brian Baldinger of NFL Network joins Zach Berman and Bo Wulf for his pre-draft thoughts and the show goes on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Thursday, April 18th, 12.02 p.m. We are continuing Donald Parham watch, but also just one week away. 176 hours, Zach, but for the start of the NFL draft, how you feeling? Excited. Can't wait. Eager. But also. All synonyms.

Also, we, I can't put the cart before the horse. We have a big show today, a big show tomorrow, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday next week. So there's five shows before then. Star studded. It's the football coach cliche. You can't win five games without winning the first one, right? Be where your feet are. Yeah.

So right now my goal today is have a great show talking about linebackers, deep tackles, a good interview with Baldy later. Follow your feet and look for the stars. Is that what you say? That's what Sir Ulrich van Lichten. Einstein's father once told him, I believe. I don't know who that is, but so be it. But no, eager for today's show did a lot of prep work on both these positions.

And meager who are baldiest to say. We're going to talk to Brian Baldinger from NFL Network, our dear friend at about 1230 before then. We're going to talk defensive tackle and linebackers, Zach, two positions that have different places in Howie Roseman's heart. You've got his kink, defensive tackle, and his ick. linebacker. Well, he's certainly done a better job than with his, I'm not going to say it. I don't want that to be a drop with defensive tackles than linebackers. He was the first round pick each of the past two years, a third round pick the year before that.

And I don't know. I feel like it's even possible that he triple dips this year. Yeah, I mean, well, someone brought that up to me yesterday. And I was like, really? And actually, Daniel Jeremiah on his conference call yesterday said that the player who's kind of gaining steam who could go earlier that people think is your boy, Byron Murphy. So what would be, what do you think that would constitute? Like top 12?

Probably, yeah, top 10, top 12. Yeah, the league sees Aaron Donald has retired. They need this other small-ish undersized penetrating defensive tackle. I like Byron Murphy. I do believe that he, like, there is a scenario where he would be the top player on their board. And you go there after the press conference and you say we've run into trouble and we force a position. He's the top player on our board. It's an important position.

So we feel good about the player that we got. We got to stay true to what we believe in. Exactly. And I also think there, I mean, I think it would be not crazy even in terms of resource allocation because if you believe that Jordan Davis is not going to turn into a real pass rusher, how can you build? build a really fearsome defensive line. Well, if, you know, if so much attention is going to be paid on Jalen Carter and you're going to get Byron Murphy one-on-one looks, I don't know, I could be talked into that.

I like a Byron Murphy. Okay. Now, let me ask you from a resource allocation perspective. Were you critical of the Eagles when they went three years in a row spending a first-round pick on a wide receiver? They went Jalen Rager, Devante Smith, and a first rounder for A.J. Brown. Well, yeah, that doesn't count. A.J. Brown is not a...

No, but I'm saying they used a first round. No, because, I mean, I was not critical. Okay. Nor I was asking, not as like... It's a little different because Jalen Rager didn't work. Yeah, it didn't work. I was asking for my general, like, I forget what your point was at that time. So I was literally asking you the question.

Yeah, I don't think that I was in any way... Okay. I wasn't trying to be like... Detracting the A.J. Brown trade, which was a home run from the... beginning. Yeah. So, I mean, I would imagine that there are different options they could go with and Byron Murphy, D-Tackle three years in a row. But I see the appeal. It is a position where you're rotating guys. Milton Williams is entering free agency after this season. There's a world where Milton Williams gets a lot more money than the Eagles might be willing to pay him if he gets to

the open market. So, yeah, that can make D-Tackle a need very quickly, especially if in year three, Jordan Davis doesn't develop the pass rushing traits that the Eagles would hope he he or that they expect them to have it's interesting I know you know we go through kind of the historical context of players that they draft at those positions and Jordan Davis his combined numbers are just so freakish like he's off the charts and everything that it just brings you back how little it means maybe so but yeah yeah you're like man someone who who can, you know, run this fast with this type of split, who can jump like that, who has these long arms,

like he should be able to get to the quarterback. Year three, we should know if he's going to be able to get to the quarterback. I would hope so. Yeah. I think we may already know. We may all already know, but there were flashes last year. There were early in the season, yeah, for sure. So sometimes it does take longer.

I think deep tackle. And to be fair, it is. a position where it takes longer. Yeah. No. And historically speaking. And we'll get to guys like Mason Smith. For instance, I think that detackle maybe more than any other spot on the field,

like traits really matter to me. Why is that? Because I think it's a spot where physically you can be so imposing or so much quick, like there's, I don't want to say it's not a thinking man's position, right? Well, shots fired. No, but I think that I've heard D-Tackles come in when they say, yeah, it's not like you're learning a playbook. Like you're taking on the blocks or you're going toward the quarterback. So I want to set.

So it's if you're a safety, a lineback or a corner, there's a lot of different like coverages you need to play and, you know, different things you're accounting for. at D-Tackle and Fletcher if you're watching and I'm wrong correct me but this is a conversation I've had with D-Tackles like there's only so many ways you're playing the positions now there's tricks of the trade and there are guys like Aaron Donald who are just now Aaron Donald's an exceptional athlete exceptionally strong but also when you hear him talk about the position like it is a thinking man's position when you hear him talk about the position I do think they'll detackle raw physical traits matter quite a bit and that's something that I look for when I'm looking at a detackle.

Now, the number two sort of consensus defense tackle on this class, if we're just going to stick on this for now, is Johnny Newton from Illinois. Talk to Baldi about him a little bit last week. He's quite a fan of Johnny Newton. Do you have any Johnny Newton opinions? Do you think he could be a, like, let's say a trade down from 22 possibility? I don't, but I do like him.

Now, did he become Johnny during the draft process? Like, when did it go from Jerzan to Johnny? I don't know. We can look that up after the show. You don't have the answer for that clearly. February 14th, Valentine's Day, right? Yeah, I like Newton.

Not enough. I need to love the players. They take a detackle high this year. I think the Eagles have three guys right now, three young guys that they're going to play a lot, that they're going to rely on. There's some players after that. I liked Morrow Ojimo during camp last year.

I think Morrow Ojimo, who's now in Fletcher Cox's locker, by the way. He got that locker. And they didn't like him as much as I did. He's part of the Corps 4. Come on now. Yeah, you just spread your, you. Core 4. Core 4.

There you go. So, a moral Ojohner McKee, Blankenship, and Christian Ellis. You called them all. Yep. Moro Jumo. I like, so I think they have players there. As I've said, and I'll repeatedly say,

I don't think you factor the roster in to, like you don't factor your depth chart in when you're drafting. You want to take the best players. That's how you do the best job of hitting. But I'm also, I don't love this detackle class as it is. And I think sometimes you push guys up the board because it's like the second best in a bad year as opposed to being like the fourth best in a good year.

Do you agree with me that there's like a, there's a chance for Byron Murphy or you just don't think that they would do it. I just, the reason I think that is because let's say let's, you know, there's these six or seven offensive tackles that they like. Let's say they're all gone or there's one of them that they actually just don't like that much. Same goes for the top two or three corners. If that happens and all the quarterbacks go and the wide receivers go, I could see a scenario in which like he is standing as a much higher grade on their board than, you know, the next

tackle and they say, you know, we got to trust the board. Yeah. Look, I think that in a year when defensive tackles are getting paid, like at a higher rate than they've ever been, and you see all these NFL think pieces about how the, how, you know, 30 million dollar detackles and that kind of thing, right? You know why that is, I think? Why is that? Well, this is the thing about Tom Brady.

So if you want to get after Tom Brady, edge pressure is not going to get to him. He will just step up. So the way to get to Brady is, you know, you know, You got to get interior pass rush pressure. That's the way to get to him. Will that. Will that ever go old? I mean, it's also.

There's no bit that I'm willing to let go of. It's also when they play against the Cowboys this year. You know, the, that Mike Zimmer. You know, sprinkle a little double-a-gat blitz, you know. Yeah. It's going to get a little sugar on the egg up. You know it's coming, right? So anyways, as I was saying,

a year when like the value of detackles is so high if the number one detackle in this draft is on the board at 22 i think one of two things either a team should want to go up and trade for him or that probably speaks to the evaluation of the player right like it would surprise me if if 21 players go off the board and it detackles not one of them then then that detackles not as good as as the, you know, the draft complex makes it seem, or if he is that good and for some reason he slipped, then there should be a team that needs a detackle who's willing to give you good compensation

that's right up for that player. It's fair framing, I think. Yeah, okay. Now, you did look at the historical precedence for Howie's preferences at the position. This is a position that he obviously values very highly, as we talked about, the kink. So tell us what you learned on that.

Yeah, so if Howie's like, monitoring my Twitter when I put these out there. I don't think he is, but he's like, Zach, are you trying to embarrass me with like some of these other positions? Of course you don't hit on most of these picks. And I would say, Howie, that's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is I'm just trying to give historical context and we can all make our judgment.

But if he's looking at the deep tackle one, he's like, all right, I'm pretty proud that one's up there, right? Because there are some good picks here. I mean, Fletcher Cox. Mostly because they were early picks. Yeah, but even, you know, Bo Allen in the seventh round. No doubt. You know, Milton Williams in the third round, that was a good pick. Although Tom Dono.

Yeah. They've been to Lee McNeil. Yeah. So some historical parts here, right? That, first off, there are the outliers that jump out. And I should say there's a period during the Chip Gallera when some of these guys were like three, four ends, right? So Joe Kruger or David King are going to be on the smaller side, right? And then your nose tackle like Bow Allen's going to be on the bigger side, of course, right? But Milton Williams is like a big time outlier when you look at the weight, when you look at the arm length.

Typically, it's easy to say someone like Fletcher Cox or Jalen Carter are the prototypes. But the Eagles are going, you know, the arm length jumps out, broad jump something that has been pretty consistent. bench press in some of these cases. But no, I wouldn't say there's there's one great trend. Now I will say it's not a position where they've gone for smaller school other than Milton Williams. Like there's a large sample size. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,

13 of them here. And the only one who's a non-BCS player is Milton Williams. So there's something to be saying, and there's a lot of SEC guys on here, right? A lot of big ten guys on here. So it is a position where typically you're going for these established players probably because players at smaller schools are usually outliers for size

and the Eagles are not typically looking for outliers at size at these positions. Early in the draft when they tend to take those guys. Exactly. But it's a position and you outlined this a few weeks ago when we did the show on where they've spent their most picks. Jordan Davis

Jalen Carter, Fletcher Cox first round picks, right? Milton Williams a third round pick. This is the position where they go early. And also there's a number of seventh rounders on here. And that goes to what I spoke about yesterday, the running back day when typically when you get to those late picks, the grade of your undrafted guy, like you're, you're more looking to sign skill guys undrafted and draft lineman because you're gambling on size.

You're gambling on on trace and you want to make sure. Whereas there's there's it's the old adage like there's there's there's more 6 1 180 guys out there than 6 6 you know 310 pound guys out there in the case of an offensive tackle. So you're you're more likely to sign a receiver sign a running back than and you want to draft the guy because there aren't that many tackles and guards and detackles out there. All right. So who are some of the guys you like day two, day three if the ego. are looking to add somebody here. Now, aside from the three guys you talked about, there's Ojimo, there's Marlon 2, Apollo 2, so there's enough depth that they don't need to force a pick here,

but there's also an opening for somebody to enter the rotation. Well, I did want to have a conversation with you about both LSU guys, okay, Mason Smith and Mackay Wingo. The Mackay's Trey's son, correct? He is not. You got me work. He said that quickly, and I was like, shoot, should I have known that?

It's not? No. I saw someone tweet out the other day that, like, yeah, when Tavondres Sweat got arrested, like brother of Josh Sweat, I was like, wait, should I know this? He's definitely not the brother of Josh Sweat. I don't know where that came from. But in any event, these two LSU guys are considerably different. Mason Smith looks like he was built in the lab to play detackle.

65306. 35-inch arms, is that right? 35-inch arms. Yeah. Long old stems there and will be 22 as a redacto. rookie. Yes. And was a, you know, big time freshman for them. Then Mackay Wingo, what's, what's like 6.1, 307? 6 foot, 287. Okay. So, yeah, much, 21 years old, yes. Yeah, much smaller, right? So two, so two totally different ends of the spectrum

there. As I said, I would lean toward Mason Smith from the perspective of you can't teach that size. You can't, you know, the tool, uh, take your shot glasses out, tools and the body, the tools in the body are there. So if you want tools in the body and you want to develop him and you're trusting Clint hurt and you're saying, all right, we have some patience here, but we might need a starting caliber player two years from now. If Mason Smith hits, he hits in a big, big way. It's kind of, I don't want to compare it to up to the Amarius Mims thing, but just that size, that age, some flashes on film, he jumps out to me for that reason, whereas Wingo, you're looking at more of like the technically sound, really quick detackle.

So where do you stand on those two LSU guys? Yeah, like I want to really like Mason Smith, given the tools in the body, as you said, and the long arms. But from an Eagles vantage point, it doesn't sound to me like he's their kind of guy. I don't think that they like guys who are such projections, personality. wise. Okay. That early in the draft, I think they like guys who were a little bit steadier.

And so which of these, so we, well, we had the so. So I would think it would be more likely that they would take a Wingo one in the third or fourth round than that they would take Mason Smith in round two. You liked Michael. Let's have the, I do like Mike Hall. The Michigan, Ohio State talk here. You liked Mike Hall. I like Chris Jenkins.

Yes. Tell me on Mike Hall. Well, it's really fun to say Mike Hall and then wonder if you're, saying Michael, Mike Hall, Michael. And it all works because either way, you're calling him by his name. So that's great. So I would love to be a, you know, I'm pretending I'm Hallie Roseman, okay? And I'm in a draft meeting and, you know, you're my top scout, all right?

You have this great eye for offensive tackles. And I say, Bo, sell me on Mike Hall. You've done all your work. And you've said, Mike Hall or Michael? Michael who? Michael Hall? My call? Who's call?

Who made the call? There you goes. Yes. So, all right. So the profile on him, you know, nearly 6-3, 300 pounds has put on weight. I think he was like 280. All right. Howie's like, all right, let's go around the room.

Who should we pick? And somebody says, my call. And he says, and how was like, no, it's my call. I'm the one who gets to make the pick. No, my call. I mean, you're looking. No mine. Yeah, 475 with the 165 split.

He is. Yeah. Explosives. young. He's the youngest defensive tackle in this class. This is one where I'm trusting my eyes a little bit. I really like what I saw from him at the Senior Bowl.

And if you're talking about a guy who can grow but also is not sort of dinged with these like personality that people are talking around or anything like that, I really like what I see from my call. He seems to me like a good bet to make in the second.

Now, I, I think that from a scheme perspective, right, he, I could see him fitting. I know, I know there's not like a 3, 4, 4.3. You always hear, oh, that's an antiquated thing. But there is a way you use your interior players in odd fronts compared to even fronts. I think he could be the end in an odd front. Like if you're talking about a five-man front, right, I think he could be like on the other side of the nose. Position versatility for sure.

Exactly. I liked Chris Jenkins a little bit more. That might be the Michigan bias in me, although now the chips at Ohio State, maybe. I thought you'd saw that a little more. I was pulling a different joke off the table. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, Chris Jenkins to me is,

I just think he's a really good player. And he's the type of guy who I think will be part of winning teams in the league. I mean, now you're talking like it's Michigan bias. Like what you like about him is that he was on the national championship. No, what I like about is that he's a contributing player. Like he made plays for them. He was doing what they needed to do within that defense. They had a really good player, Mason Graham, 55 Graham, Michigan.

Remember that. He's going to be a big time player next year. But I just thought the way he fit within the framework of that defense jumped out to me. And I liked Chris Jenkins. But I don't dislike my call. I just like Jenkins more. Yeah, it's not a huge thing against somebody was just a little bit underwhelms. Like I said the other day, the guy's nickname is the mutant.

I want to see some special tools. And he just seemed like he was moving like a guy. Okay. Now, how about Rookie? Arroo. Rook, not Rookie. Rook, Aurora, Ruro. I thought it was just Aurora.

O'Rour, Roar. Rower. Rower. Hold on. Oh, row, row, row. Oh, row, row. Yes. Rook, oh, ro, ro, ro, ro.

What's so funny? Like, row, row, row, row, row, right? That's what it says here. Here's the pronunciation guy. Oh, row, ro, ro, ro, ro. Ro, ro, ro. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, what did I say? I don't know. It's just, you got there eventually. It's like row, row, row, row, row your boat, okay? There you go. Oh, man, you kill me with the pronunciation. You feel like he, how many times do you feel like he's had to use that? I don't know.

But every time I leave this show, I'm like, you know what? I think I'm like a more competent person than I think Beau makes me seem to be on this show. I'm in the car driving away. And I'm like, I felt like I was an idiot on that show. Anyways. Rooka Rororoa Roh Roh. Yeah. 6-4-294 will be 23 as a rookie.

five years at Clemson, uh, some sack productivity last couple years, four sacks in 22, five sacks in 23, um, has nice long arms, 34 inches,

uh, and tested pretty well. Yeah, I think the best athletic tester among the detackles at the combine in terms of the overall score. And, uh, I'm a little bit

unmoved by the profile, uh, just because he was there for so long. but certainly a guy who I would say would come in and maybe make you question whether you need to extend Milton Williams and would take eventually that role as the third defensive tackle. Yeah, I did like him also. This is not in the beast, but a little nugget on him.

Wow, a shot of Dane waiting for him to respond. No, no, no, no, no. He interned at Adobe. I thought that was interesting. You're unmoved. Doing what? learning how to use Photoshop like what Adobe's a big company

it's not just Photoshop but yeah he was learning they call him the acrobat reader he was learning the business end of it I thought that was I'm always impressed when I see someone who has who has interest besides football again you

seem hell bent on putting together the worst team of football players ever made just guys who have interned at major companies. Bo, unlike you, I view these guys as people, right? And like to me, there are not just slabs of meat running out there trying to sack the quarterback, okay?

These are, these are human beings with personality and interests. And I want to, I want to, so here's someone. Yeah, let's draft the wide receiver who interned for Condoleezza Rice. That'll work out really well for us. I don't think it didn't work out because he interned for Consulizer Rice. I don't think it did it. Not. So, yeah, so I, if he gets drafted, I promise you, I'll ask him about that internship at Adobe.

Well, that I definitely believe. Okay. All right, Zach. Let's talk about our friends. Welcome back, our friends at Mortgage CES. Mortgage CES offers refinancing options, including rate and term refinances for a rate or payment, reduction, or cash out refinances to tap. into home equity, making it a smart choice for those with high interest debt or funding home projects or education. The spring purchase market, baby, it's almost here and it's heating up

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walk-in or schedule a vaccine appointment at right aid.com. Whenever I see the immunizations, I'm always getting worried. Bo is going to give me like an Aaron Rogers joke or something like that. It wasn't on my mind before, but I will be now. Just reading the copy. Whenever I hear the word anihistamines, yes. I think of welcome to Atlanta. the ludicrous song.

Not familiar with the song, but sounds good. You never heard that song? Welcome to Atlanta. I've heard Welcome to Miami. Welcome to Atlanta where the players play? I love going to Atlanta, so great food city, by the way. I cannot believe that you don't know that song. I mean, I'm sure if I heard it.

I am hard pressed to be surprised by a pop culture hole in your catalog. but that one that one shocks me i mean i'm sure if i heard it it would make sense to me but i love Atlanta i just don't i don't know the song i'm sorry well i bet i bet brian baldinger has spent some good nights in atlanta baldy do we have you bozak yeah you got me um i've had my share of memorable times in Atlanta for sure spent a lot of time down there over the years yeah i mean And Baldy, I feel like there's no, there's no place in the world. There's no category that Baldy doesn't have some kind of story. The man, the man has.

I mean, I could, I look, there's some stories in Bucket. I probably can't tell. Even there's there right now. But there's been some golden moments. I mean, the Super Bowl was down there twice. So I've been there for both Super Bowls. So one was an ice storm that everybody wants to forget. One was back in, I don't know, 1994.

four like there was some good parties as as i recall back then i saw a picture baldy posted recently working out with mike piazza on the beach and i'm like baldy's like forest gum he's he's he's been everywhere and has met everyone i think that's right that was uh that was a long time ago that's like almost it's hard to believe but it's like almost 30 years ago mike we're working out homosa beach at my buddy's gym back then love that uh all right baldy we are we're a week away from the draft. So we are, we're trying to get it all in while we can here. Let's, let's, you and I talk defensive tackles last week. So we'll, we'll put that to the side for now. We know that the Eagles certainly have a need at linebacker. We also know that Howie Roseman is not going to draft one

in the first round, not that there is necessarily a first round caliber linebacker in this draft. But if we're talking day two, who are the guys that have sort of caught your eye at that position? Well, I mean, I think the bet, there's two that had really caught my eye. Peyton Wilson in North Carolina State. I mean, if you just watch him play, don't forget about the medical because he's got an ACL and, you know, he's hamstring and his shoulder.

He's had some things. But you just watch that guy play. He's a first round pick. Like he's 6'4. He's 240 pounds. He runs in the 4-4s. Like, he's an elite, elite prospect. He can cover.

Like, he smacks you when he hits you. But he'll probably be, in fact, I'm doing this thing today on, I have him going, I forget exactly where I had. I had him going as high as 37 to the chargers in the second round because they look like they need linebackers. To Dallas at 56 in the second round, they need linebackers. Like, you know, you could drop all the way down.

So I have, I had this note right here, but I can't find it right now. Anyways, like, he's, oh, here, let's sake. I had him going to 65 to Carolina, the first pick in the third round. like I could see any like in that range from 37 to 65 which is a big range but I feel like the sweet spot is second rounder and the Eagles are picking 50 and 53 in the second round like he would he would make that defense look a whole lot faster if him in Devon White you were lining up at inside linebacker that might be the fastest tandem of linebackers in the league. Paulie I'm I'm curious about Jeremiah Trotter Jr. It's a name that's getting a lot of attention in Philly for obvious. reasons. One, your evaluation of the player, but also understanding the dynamics of playing in Philadelphia of kind of maybe the pressure that would come with that name playing in Philadelphia. Do you think that's something that the Eagles would need to consider?

I think you have to consider it. I mean, Jeremiah Trotter is an icon in this business. I mean, the way that he played, the intensity played with. I think, I think Jeremiah was a third round pick coming out of Stephen F. Austin, if I'm not mistaken, Zach. You know, and, you know, And he just brought a whole lot of, you know, I mean, 200 and whatever he was, 50 pounds. I mean, he just brought a whole lot of home to the middle of that defense. And that's not, his son isn't built like that. Now, he's a good player. He's been a good player at Clemson the last two, three years.

I don't think he's what you're looking for when you're a three-down linebacker right now. And you've got to cover backs and tight ends in this league at six feet tall. Like I'm not knocking him. But, you know, he's probably a third round pick right now, maybe a day three pick. but I would consider going, look, you're following your dad's footsteps. Maybe he embraced it. I remember meeting him for the first time when he was like 15, and you can see the frame was already there.

Like, you know, like the guy, he just looked like an athlete when he was 15 at some event I was at with Trot. But I'd be a little worried that because they haven't, they can't find linebackers here. it's already a troubled position. And if you're asking to be the next trot, like that might feel a lot to ask. I want to circle back to the first question, Baldi, because before talking about Peyton Wilson,

you said there were two guys. Who was the other guy? Oh, Edger and Cooper. Edron Cooper, Texas A&M. He's not as big as Peyton, but his suddenness and his movement is elite. And if you just watched Edron Cooper against Alabama, and you always watch every SEC.

team against Alabama, he's a first round pick. He might be a top 20 pick. But he was just that good. And he was just, you know, he's spying the, you know, quarterback. You watch him spy Jane Daniels and chase Jane Daniels down, you know, in any role that you put him in as a blitzer, a rusher, you know, just a guy that can clean things up, reads, reads plays really well. Edger Cooper is my other guy. So is that mean you are not a junior Colson guy from Michigan because some people giving him the nod as the top

linebacker in the class? Yeah, no, I'm not against him. I just like those other two guys a lot better right now. And so I just those two just come to, if people are talking inside linebacker, I don't think anybody's going on the first round. Sure. But if you're looking at, you know, inside linebacker right now, those two Wilson and Edger

and Cooper look like one and two to me. What do you think Vic Fangio is looking for, not specifically at a linebacker, including linebacker, at all three levels of the defense, as much as the Eagles think long term with the draft, Vic needs players, right? So if he has his say in the draft room,

what do you think he wants out of this draft? A starting corner. A starting corner. Like, I think, you know, that's a need. That's a need, Zach. I mean, we know they surrendered 35 touchdowns last year, the second most of Washington. It was hard to watch,

both the tackling and the coverage throughout the year. And, you know, they threw a bunch of guys out there and pick guys up all the street. This, you know, there's picking a spot where there's going to be a good corner there at 22. If they just stay there. If they go chasing somebody, they might have to give up some assets. But I'd say that he needs a starting corner right now. And everybody's looking for him.

Everybody's looking for four of them, you know, whether it's in a slot, back up against four wide receiver sets, whatever it is. Everybody's looking for four guys they can play right now. I don't know that the Eagles have two that can line up and really play the way Vic needs him to play. How do you stack those corners at the top of the draft? If you're sitting at 22, who are you hoping is on the board? Well, I think Cooper DeGine will be there. And I love the kid. And I think Vic would love him too. Just because he's a football player, he can tackle, he can cover. He's got, you know, he's got ball skills. You know, he's got punt returnability, if you want him to do that.

But, you know, Terry and Arnold was an unbelievable player. Like his ability to read plays, especially in the run game and to go make plays in the run game. Now, yes, he can turn and run with all of them. And you can find Ladd-McConkie beating him. He gets beat. They all get beat. But he's pretty sticky, though. Like, he's really good.

Gryon Mitchell is exactly what you're looking for in the corner. Like just tremendous suddenness, break on the football. I don't know if anybody defended more passes in college football last year. the Quignon. And I know it's the Matt conference, so you have to maybe consider that, but I think the fact that he ran like he ran, it shows up on film. And so

I think those guys, I like Wiggins might be like his frame kind of concerns me a little bit. Yeah. And outside like that. And McKish, look, Kool-Aid is probably the number one corner going into last year's season. He was probably the number one corner on everybody's board

or a lot of teams board. So it's not like he's dropped down. It's just that Tyrion was just so good in every phase of the game last year at Alabama. If I can follow up on Cooper DeGine, because the sentiment that you shared is something you hear. This is a football player, right? Can play corner, can play slot, can play safety. The knock on him seems to be the lack of press man that he played at Iowa. Was that a function of the defense he was in?

Do you think that's something he could do in the NFL? And you ultimately see him as a starting outside guy in the NFL? I see him as the starting outside guy, Zach, and it's a concern. Concern, you know, can you do what Terry and Arnold does and some of these guys? Can you just line up and just run with these, you know, these elite athletes on the outside? And you don't see enough of it, but I think he can do it. I think his, how twitched up he is, how he runs, straight line speed. Like, I believe he can do it.

And his size and physical attributes, I think he can play that style if you want him to. I'm going to ask you, Baldy, to go back in the wayback machine here as we talk about the difference between these guys as slabs of meat or human beings. 1982, when you were entering the league and you do not get drafted. What was draft weekend like for you, young Brian Baldinger hoping to get the call? What was that all about? Well, first of all, you know, it wasn't broadcast on TV or radio. So the only way you knew what happened in the draft is you open up the Durham morning Herald in the morning and you read who who got drafted in the 12 rounds.

So 12 rounds came and went. I got a phone call late in the draft. My brother got drafted in a 10th round. So I knew my brother got drafted at Wake Forest by the Giants. So I was already, I was already pissed that I didn't get drafted. Then when I find out my brother, who I thought was kind of lazy, gets drafted in 10th round. Now I'm really ticked. And now the draft is coming on in its finals at Duke.

And I'm studying for a German exam. And I got, I get a call from the, you know, from a Cowboys saying, you know, Buck Buchanan wants to come by and talk to me about a free agent contract. And I didn't know Buck Buchanan at the time was a retired Air Force colonel who ran, he ran the laundry department at, with the Dallas Cowboys. I mean, he cleaned, he cleaned the jocks and the socks. He ran the equipment room. So that's how highly they thought of me.

But Buck showed up on Monday after the draft. And, you know, we negotiated a deal. He started off with a $500 signing bonus and a three-year deal, $32, $34, $36,000. And I got him with my negotiating skills because I had a car out there in a park lot that had no brakes. So I negotiated with Buck up to $1,250 that got my brakes fixed. to my car and I could drive my car home to New York to celebrate becoming a Dallas Capitol. Love that.

That's a great story. If I can sneak one more in here. He has no respect for your personal time. No, no, I love that story. I was going to ask a Graham Barton offensive line question. I'm actually not going to ask you. No, I stick with Duke. But I did want to ask you, I heard you on Anthony's show speaking about Michael Pinnock's

Jr. And the reason I wanted to bring it up is because for the Eagles, the best case scenario is if six quarterbacks go off the board in the first 21 picks, right? It pushes guys down. And we know four could go in the top four, top ten, but it seems Michael Pennix Jr. And then Bo Nicks are kind of the wild cards there. Based on what you see, based on what you know, do you think six quarterbacks go off in the top 21 or do you think it could be a situation where those guys are lingering and the Eagles need to move up to get someone they like? No, I think six are going to go. I think you're going to see some teams maybe trade back from the second round into the first round with Baltimore, San Francisco, Kansas City, maybe, to take a bone next.

But I think Michael Pennix is going to go. I don't, excuse me, Zach. I think there's a lot of teams that are very interested. I think the Raiders are very interested. I think the Falcons are interested if it's at the right, not at eight, but somewhere else. I think Seattle, 16, his offense coordinator at Washington is now the offense coordinator for Mike McDonald in Seattle. I think they're very interested in his ability. He's my second favorite quarterback in this drafts act.

So I think he's going to go in the first round. I'd be curious what Sean Payton thinks about him if he runs through progressions as quickly as he wants his guys to be able to do. But I think he'd be enamored by the arm and by the mental part of his. gain and just his accuracy, overall accuracy. I think I can say on behalf of all Wake Forest graduates that I think the lazy perception is probably fair. That's something that hits home. Is there anybody like day three, Baldy, who is just your guy?

Like your favorite guy to watch, you will be super excited just to see where he goes. Well, I mean, if you look, the Eagles are looking, I'll address the Eagles. here. Like the Eagles, it never seems like they can find safeties. You know, maybe read Blankenship is a guy that they were like, maybe Sidney Brown, we'll see. But Dandrean Taylor Demerson at Texas Tech. Yeah. He's got 10 interceptions, you know, at Texas Tech. He's got eight in the last two years.

Like, he runs into four-fours. Like, he covers a lot of ground. He looks like a good football player to me. Like, I'd go to bat for him. If you look at offensive line, like I think the Eagles, might draft too. But if you look at Elijah Klein at U-TEP and tell me he's not an offensive guard in this league, like, you know, the guy's six-year player there,

but he started four years captain. Like he's just big and strong. I've run his name by a couple elite offense line coaches in this league, and they're like, yep, he can start a guard in this league. So like those are a couple guys, you know, that probably day three prospects that I think are going to get drafted and become good football players.

Love that. Well, Bally, thank you so much. Yeah. We'll talk to you. Let's reconvene as we get closer and closer. And let's chop this up a couple more times, maybe before or after, see what the Eagles do. I would like to do that. Thank you so much.

We'll talk to you soon. Okay, guys. See you soon. Take care. All right. Before we get going with the rest of the show, Zach, let's talk about our friends at Oli Pop. Oh, that was a bad one. Much better.

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Cracking an Ollie Pop. I'm fortunate that I've been able to travel around the country, the different sporting events, but I understand when I... A bunch of good food cities. Yeah, when I book the travel, though, I see sometimes the hassle. You can't find hotel rooms, flights aren't what,

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I thought, yeah, I thought that. Of course that's your number one takeover. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, Nicholas Batum is making place. Kyle Lowry, Kyle Lowry, I've been watching Kyle Lowry play for 20 years of my life, for more than that, 25 years of my life. And I don't think I've ever seen a game where he wasn't the toughest guy on the court, right? I love watching Kyle Lowry play basketball. I'll say that.

Like, it is a treat for me getting to watch Kyle Lowry play basketball. But, yeah, I mean, you go across, you know, campaign. gets in there. It's a big corner three. Yeah, it's nice. Right? I mean, I can go on down the list. Like, um, you know, these acquisitions were, or, we're making plays. It was the difference in the game. So it was a good Darryor Mory game, if I may say so myself. Okay. What'd you think of the game? I'm just happy for Josh Harris. I think I need. Josh Harris, what do you think? I saw Jonathan Jones from CBS had this tweet. It's actually an interesting question next Thursday, a Sixers, Knicks playoff game.

And the Washington commanders are drafting number two overall. Big night for them too. Where is he? It's a home playoff game for the Sixers, right? And it's number two pick. Is he sitting courtside? No, no. He's down in the draft room.

Yes. Okay, interesting. Because he doesn't care about this city. Look, we have nine minutes in show. We need to talk linebackers. We don't need to get into that. But we will be live during the draft. Okay, Bowney.

The whole thing, baby. And I promise you that when the commanders are up, and we see the video of their draft room, this is going to be Bo's first time. The audio listener, the audio listeners can't see Bill right now. That was a perfect impression. But that's going to be the first thing that Bo brings up

is whether Josh Harris is there or not. Before we talk about Jaden Daniels or Drake or Drake May, it's going to be, where's Josh Daniels in that? I'm sorry, where's Josh Harris in that room? So we'll see, you can make sure you tune in just for that. And also our observations on everything. every pick and all the shenanigans going on. Yes.

Most of Friday, depending on if the Eagles tradeback or whatever, could be the whole thing. And then through the sixth round on Saturday. So you got a lot of Zach Berman coming your way. 16 hours in a room with Bo Wolf. This is this is exactly what I signed up for. Yeah, that's exactly right. Okay, let's let's talk linebackers quickly. Yeah.

The Howie Roseman history at the position. Now, it's tough because oftentimes it's like picking from the dregs because they don't take guys super high. But not a surprise to see that one thing that they do value when they're drafted on these guys is speed, how we like speed. Most of these guys have run in the 85th to 99th percentile in the 40. Now, there are a couple guys earlier who that is not the case for. As you have noted, there have been some safety converts in there, Kenan Clayton, Jacobi Stevens, and Nate Gary. But the other thing, arm length doesn't matter to him.

They've actually often taken guys who do not have like even over 50 percentile arm length at the position. All of that said, it's really more about the fact that it's not a priority position for him. The other thing I would say, Nicobi Dean was the first of all of the, 12 linebackers he's drafted who was an underclassman. That's a good observation. Yeah. Actually, Arm length when you tie, I say I never really think about arm length, but then we

literally did like two shows or three shows and Zach Cunningham, Darius Leonard, and the wingspan. So, yeah. And boy, Darius Leonard, that worked out. That did not work out. Yeah. Actually, I was going through our YouTube shorts and there's like a YouTube short of my evaluation of the Darius Leonard move and like her Shaq Leonard, I should say.

And it had very little effect on the scene. season at all. Well, actually it had a major effect on the season. Sure, because it didn't help. Yeah. Oh, because Christian Ellis. They lost Christian Ellis. Cut Christian Ellis. True. Thereby ruining the season. So which linebackers are your guys here? So I do like Junior Colson. Yeah, maybe a little bit more than Baldy does, but I don't think they're going to draft like they're not, I don't think they're going to draft the first linebacker at the board. I don't think they're going to be the team that values the linebacker. Who do you think goes first? Colson or Cooper? I think Colson goes first. Okay. Cooper is interesting and is a polarizing prospect, right?

I definitely see the flashes and the athletic upside. I like a guy that has sack production at the position. I could see, you know, if for some reason, Devin White is like the type of guy that Vic Fangio wants, like Andrew and Cooper does sort of have a little bit of that to his game. I would be surprised if they wanted to duplicate that. Trevin Wallace, who is Bruegler's number three. linebacker is someone the Eagles brought in for a visit,

so it's important to keep him in mind. 6-1-237, right of 4-5-1, 21 years old. Peyton Wilson is really interesting, and you talk about an outlier, like the guy is a complete outlier because he is faster than almost everybody at the position. He's got really short arms. He's 24 years old already.

He's got all of these injury histories. Plus, just from a not-confusing people in the building standpoint, point they would have to trade Dallas Goddard. They drafted Payton Wilson because everybody would just be seeing him and like Dallas, what just happened? Yeah. So something to keep in mind. I didn't want to like Peyton Wilson as much as I did.

And I admit that because like a 24 year old who gets hurt a lot, you're like, come on, right? There's, but then you watch him play and you heard what, what Ballie said. You're like, this guy's all over the field, right? Brother Bryce Wilson, the pitcher formerly of the Braves. Oh, yeah. Bryce with an S. Bryce with an S. Yeah. I think he's a really good player, Peyton Wilson. Yeah, so too. I don't love the idea of taking a 24-year-olders hurt a lot.

In the second round when you would probably have to take him. Exactly. Your view on Trott Jr. I like Trott Jr. I don't, did we talk about it on air or off air about why it is that he has sort of fallen in favor? We talked about on air, yeah. Okay. Well, I think I was too much the Howley when we talked about the Howley thing. Okay, oh, that's right. So yeah, I like the idea.

I think you are probably right to be skeptical of would they want him here? Would that be fair to him? I'm not so sure that it would be. Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Like, I like him as a player. And I mean, I would use Niccova Dean almost as the comp, right? But if, you know, I was listening to talk radio the other day and there was a caller who called in is like, they need to take Jeremiah Trotter Jr., right?

and you want to warn people that, you know, because they were talking about, like, what that legacy means and like, you ought to warn people. He's not his dad. Yeah. And back, that's quite an in onus to Phil. So I do think. I mean, they drafted Kvon Wallace in the fourth round and because he went to Clemson and knew Dawkins son, everybody was talking about him like the next Brian Dawkins.

Yeah. Yeah. So that, that would be really tough for Fortrott Jr. Who are the guys who you maybe have a little checkmark next to in your list on day three guys that you kind of like. Yeah, Curtis Jacobs, he was a former top recruit, goes to Penn State. I mean, if you look, height, weight, speed, he has it. Then he didn't necessarily turn it on. But if you say, all right, you want to go for tools?

6.1.5, 241, right, 4, 5, 8. Yep. And big hands, short arms. If you're talking about like the old school type linebacker, Tommy. Eichenberg. By that you mean white? No, I don't I don't mean white.

I just mean like he smokes a cigarette and drinks a whiskey after the game. No, it's not what I mean either. I mean, he's more like you're, you know, you're run stopping. You hear like a two down linebacker type of right then, right?

Whereas the league's kind of trending more toward how are you on passing downs and that kind of thing. But I mean, he is a, he was a good player at Ohio State. I did not mean white if you're talking if you're talking about the converted safety which which like we said

is a is a bucket that the eagles have had looked in before they've actually tried converting guys but James Williams is the James Williams from Miami former big time recruit at safety and you looked at you looked at him in safety and you're like 6 4, 231

runs a 4-6-5 yeah but he's making he's projected as as a linebacker. Now, admittedly, I'm someone who really like

Taylor-Maze ones coming out of USC, right? I see that. It doesn't surprise me. But I think with James Williams, if you think he can make that conversion, although if you want to do takeaways

from like their draft history, if you compare, you know, Davy on Taylor, let's say the T.J. Edwards. I think linebacker is a position where the instincts really do matter. You can't just take the athlete and put them in there and say like,

all right, go function within this defense. So you really need to have confidence that the, you know, you hear like the draft nerds say, or actually, I'm sorry, not draft nerds. I'm a draft nerd. Draft Knicks, if you will. There are certain terms you that that you use. No, like the.

Draft squares. The football like real like true football guys. They say, they say his FBI, right? And it's just got. The female body inspector. It's football intelligence, but like it's framed as like FBI as if everyone's supposed to understand exactly what you're referring to. And, you know, if I'm like, you know, you're running to make sure their FBI is good.

People are watching at home. We're like, what the hell are you talking about? Yeah. You, like T.J. Edwards, what made T.J. Edwards good. He wasn't a 4-4 guy, but he didn't take that split second to think about it. Like, he knew where he was going. He had the instincts. A hundred percent.

And that could compensate. So that can compensate for the time speed sometimes. That is how I feel about the position in the draft. Is it, I mean, it is two extremes. But a Davian Taylor type who has unbelievable athletic tools, but not a lot of time on task, right? You're Gladwellian 10,000 hours at the position because if it takes you a moment's hesitation to move, it doesn't matter how fast to move, right? Versus the T.J. Edwards, the guy who has lots of playing experience and is able to compensate for what he lacks athletically because he sees things happening as they're happening.

I am I am absolutely tilting towards the guys with experience. I just, I feel like, and if you look at the list of like the best linebackers in football, most of them were multi-year,

if not three-year starters in college. And so like I, you know, Patrick Queen worked out eventually, right? That turns out to be a fine pick. But I, I am really wary of projects at that position. Safety being the same for me.

So the guys in this class, the like the day three guys who had three years of starting experience and are not like 28 years old. Colson is one of them started playing it's like two and a half years basically for him. Peyton Wilson we talked about who is very old. Cedra Gray from UNC who I think is interesting. Jordan McGee from Temple who I do like a little bit. Curtis Jacobs. You mentioned J.T. Bertrand from Notre Dame who was a little bit smaller, a little stockier.

Tyree Tyrese Knight from Ute. For some buzz on him. I haven't watched. Who is a little bit older, we'll be 24 as a rookie. And then last one, Darius Muazau from UCLA, who was also short,

just under 6 foot 225, but is a probably, you know, more likely a guy who would help you on special teams, but a guy who laid on day three, I would be curious about, and we talked about in the break room.

I don't believe that how he has ever drafted or even signed as an undrafted free agent, a Chip Kelly player. That is interesting. Maybe Muazan will break the streak. And the other guy, I would add who fits that profile is Nathaniel Watson from Mississippi State. It was a second team all-American, started quite a bit at Mississippi State.

But you know, you're kind of hoping that the instincts are there because athletically is probably not what you're seeking. You mentioned Taylor Mays brings me back to the days as working for Philadelphia Eagles.com, like running the chat for Eagles live. there were two players from around that time who like to a nauseating degree everybody was always talking about these guys like you know it was like the Eagles are not going to draft this player

and in like 12 months of the year everybody's like Taylor Mays all caps Taylor Mays do you do you have an idea who the other one was if you say it I'll be like all right that that makes complete sense who was it Vantes perfect oh okay Yeah, okay. I can see that.

No one draft Devantz is perfect, right? No. Yeah. I mean, now they should have. Good player. I mean, pretty nuts out there sometimes. I guess so. But good player.

Tower Mays, not so much. But I think his mother worked at Microsoft, maybe. I remember that from the draft profile. I said that just to get the reaction from you. Yes. Melinda? No, not Melinda. No.

Okay. All right, Zach. That's all I got That's a good show today. How are you doing? I'm doing great. This was a good show. I said to you before because we were trying to figure out when we can sneak in,

like, we're the GMs of the team and we're doing an on-the-clock mock draft. And I said, you know, if we have time to fill later in the show, that's 104. We didn't even get all, we didn't even get to everything today. But that was a good show today. What's the super chat say here?

If you could be a dinosaur, which would you choose? Oh, this is a boa question. Jason, Case and I talk about this all the time. What would you, what would your answer be? Well, I mean, if you're a pterodactyl, you can fly. So. Teradactyl, not a dinosaur.

It's actually a, sorry. Terosaur. I mean, it's rhinocor's wrecks or the king, right? I haven't thought about this. I mean, I like meat. So like I'd be a carnivore, not a herbivore. Okay. I probably wouldn't be.

I know. I always. thought Stegosaurus was a cool one, right? Yeah. We got the spikes on the back, so maybe Stegosaurus, but no, if you're a T-Rex, you're a kid. Stegosaurus was my favorite as a kid. Gotcha.

There was a wolf family story of, I was, my mom had made me a Stegosaurus costume for Halloween, and I was freaking out. I did not want to be a Stegosaurus. I was very upset as young kids are tend to be. And my dad convinced me that I should, the Stegosaurus, was the bravest of all the dinosaurs. And for whatever reason, that worked. But then it got back to my parents that I went around,

like I was spending all day talking about how the stegosaurus is the bravest of all the dinosaurs. Like, oh, he knows so much about dinosaurs. How did he learn that? And my dad was just like, I just made it up. But now your son knows quite a bit about dinosaurs. He knows way more and he knows the actual facts about them, not just stuff that's being made up.

Yeah. So who's your favorite dinosaur? I mean, to say favorite. Or what dinosaur would you be? Now, you know, if you're one of those big ones, where you're like an Argentinosaurus, a patasaurus, it's a lot of work. Like you're eating all day long.

You eat leaves because you've got so much body to keep around, keep going. It's a lot of work. But you also don't want to be something that's getting hunted. I don't know. You ever seen a picture of a carnatoris? I know tiniest little arms

you've ever seen gotcha all right well then I'd probably be a connoisse horse then well you're not tall enough

oh okay that's the that's the funny thing yeah yeah oh very big tall a tiny teeny

little arms got you got you little nubs yeah yeah yeah yeah

yeah julia has pulled it up yeah to look at herself yes okay yeah read had

had like a two week dinosaur phase but that that was that did not last so we're more into

um he wants know the score of every game every night. So we're more into that than the dinosaurs. But I should know more about dinosaurs. It's a good conversation. I don't know that you need to know more about dinosaurs. And Sloan loves Taylor Swift.

So I know Taylor Swift songs now. So, yes. She's like Travis? She's generally aware of everything that's going on there? No, she's, yeah. She thinks that because I loosely know Jason that she can meet Taylor. Oh. It doesn't work that way.

Yes. I would love for you to. Send that message out to Jason. Hey, listen. You think he's ever gotten that? I think my daughter can meet. Travis. Jason, by the way.

I'm sure no one's ever brought this up to you. And I'm like, now Sloan, it doesn't work that way. If you go to all-P-H-L-Y.com, you can read the story on all of the testing and production, sort of measurable stuff for the prospects on offense, the defense coming later this week. You know, some sleeper possibilities, some minor red flags who were the safe guys. We've talked about a lot of that on the show, but you can check it out there. Also, everybody's favorite, the wide receiver buckets, all that good stuff. And you got Kyle Neubeck breaking down what happened in the game last night.

You got Charlie O'Connor writing about Flyers Go Home Media Day, all that good stuff. So lots of stuff on all-PHLY.com. Check that out. And that'll do it for this episode of the PHLY. Eagles podcast. We're back at one o'clock tomorrow. A little bit of a delay, not noon. One o'clock. We're going to talk to Dane Brugler, and we're going to focus, wrap the show around the cornerback position, a position that could be the Eagles first round pick. So for Zach Berman, thank you to Brian Baldinger. Thank you to Julia for making it all happen. Thanks to all the

sickos in the live chat and everybody listening after the fact. We will talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you.