PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Philadelphia Eagles free agency, day 3: Do linebackers even exist?

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Welcome to the third day of free agency as the Eagles have addressed needs at safety, running back and offensive line while paying a high price for the luxury of upgrading to Saquon Barkley at running back. While we still wait for a resolution on the logjam at edge rusher, with Bryce Huff potentially forcing out Josh Sweat and/or Haason Reddick, we also wonder what Howie Roseman’s plan is at linebacker, where most of the FA market has gone elsewhere. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf read and react to the play in front of them as a wild week rolls on. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

to day three of free agency frenzy. Bo Wolf, Zach Berman here on the P.HLY Eagles podcast. How you doing, Z.B? Doing great, excited for the show. I'm looking at the thumbnail there of Ben Van Zumer. I'm thinking... You know, sometimes I just do that to make myself laugh. It's like a Vegas bachelor party, you know, where Friday and, you know, Friday, you're real excited, right?

Saturday, like, you're still kind of going. And then Sunday, you're just, oh, man, you know, you're on fumes at that point, right? I'd like to hear more about the tales of your Vegas bachelor parties. So if you look at the thumbnails from the shows on day one, we go from like your Sequan Barkley or Hassan Reddick or whoever the top guys are, and now we're talking Ben Van Sumer. No disrespect to BPS. I mean, potentially, the greatest linebacker in the Eagles history.

It's on the table. Yeah, by default almost. Yeah, I would say that's one of my favorite thumbnails that we're. we've had. I mean, that photo of Ben Vancey. Like the, he looks like a Terminator with that arm, like the muscles on that bad boy. Yeah, he looks like you. That's right. Yeah, so we're going to talk a little bit about some of the work the Eagles still have left to do. You know, I was looking at the depth chart. There's this thing, how does it pronounce, Linnebatcher? I've never heard this before. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. Julia loves your sense of

You, man. She's over there cracking up in the corner. I think you're referring to linebacker. Oh, linebacker. Oh, interesting. I don't know much about this. Like Chuck Ben Eric and Jeremiah Trotter, Byron Evans.

Byron Evans, nice. Yes. Yeah. Obviously, the Eagles have work left to do with linebacker. It's the third day of free agency. They have a long time to address this, but we're going to talk about where they stand there. Maybe revisit some C.J. Gardner-Johnson thoughts,

now that we have seen a little bit more of the contract, details. You can read our grades on all p.hly.com if you are a diehard member. I want to amend my grade for Devante Parker. Okay. Our grading scale, you should read it, but we'll give it a tease. Our grading scale for this one was Eagles Wide Receivers. And I put Ruben Randall.

I thought that was a fair one. Yeah, I think more apt as Miles Austin. You know what? I almost put Miles Austin, except that, like, Miles Austin was representative of of a deeper rotting in the organization. Whereas Devante Park, like, it's not, Miles Austin was like a sort of a nefarious representation of what had changed about the roster management,

whereas Devante Parker is not, like, they're not paying Devante Parker anymore. No, I just mean. But I do think that that's from a, like, a former accomplished wider receiver who was just on the roster, what is he doing here? Yeah, I think Devante Parker's more accomplished than, well, he is more accomplished than Ruth.

Reuben Randall was when the Eagles signed him. And I think in terms of the accomplishments and the age profile, Miles Austin's probably more apt to Devante Parker. So I wanted to amend that grade. That was one like at 1153. I submitted it and I should have thought a little more on that one. Now, you unfortunately were still awake when I tweeted the grades out last night. That was a disappointment to me.

I was hoping you were going to be sleeping. Yeah, I didn't really get to catch up on the news of the day in the NFL and elsewhere. right so I was going on elsewhere well the world the yeah I just want to know what's going on in the world right so I didn't know there was anything outside of football this week and I'd like to read and so I was catching up a little reading before I went to sleep and so I kind of got in bed at at 1230 1245 I was looking at the phone and saw you tweeted that out what were you reading I mean I was I was reading an article in Joe Biden's last campaign. Okay.

Yes. I get a great Sunday newsletter from Don Vanatta Jr. It's called the Sunday Long Read. You should subscribe. Anyone should subscribe. And I kind of bookmark links in there to go back to at night during the week, stuff that I might have missed. And that was one of them.

It's a good bedtime reading. You get sleepy Joe and you get... You're talking politics, not me. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about C.J. Garner Johnson, what we learned since we spoke last night, a really a spirited conversation. And I want to walk back a little bit of it, but tell us the details on what we've learned a little bit about the contract. Yeah, that the up to was doing a lot of work

there. As expected. Yeah, in terms of the guaranteed money, it's what? Let me pull this up in terms of what has since come out. Do you have it off the top of your head? Uh, no, I think, well, I believe it was, uh, it's like 10 million. Yeah. Yeah. So, so thereabouts. And so that, that kind of shows you that, um, that the eagles are paying for this year. And there's upside there and you like to see if the upside materializes.

That's great. But this isn't a major commitment, but it is the age profile that they like. And so this could be someone who's here for the next three years, four years. Or it could be something where they cut their. their losses pretty quickly. Yeah, and this does change the way I think about the signing. Now, I never, as we talked about, I never believed it was going to be, you know, three for 33.

That didn't make any sense, given that it would have been more than they offered last year, and he's coming off a season which he played three games. And if it is just $10 million, and it's structured so that C.J. Garner Johnson is incentivized. Like, he has to go out and earn his money by being on the field and, you know, accumulating whatever those incentives are. That's the right way to do it, I think. It's probably likely a two-year deal, but there is an out if things do combust in year one.

I think that makes a lot of sense. It's obvious that the Eagles value C.J. Garner Johnson more than the rest of the league does because they offered him the most money last year, even though Garner Johnson thought that it wasn't enough, and then he ended up taking less from the Lions for a one-year deal, and then now they have offered him obviously the most in the market. And so they know him, they understand him.

I think that the, I think that the, the Siriani part here is probably a major factor, how much he values that competitive zeal, as you put it. But it's worth noting, like, this is a very talented player in the prime of his career, and the rest of the league is not, like, knocking down, this is not a Xavier McKinney situation, right? The Eagles are really the team who is smitten with him. and do not have a lot of competition like at paying him that much money. And you mentioned the Nixiriani factor. There's something else I should point out and you had this in your grade and that's the Dom DeSandro factor.

You know, you would imagine Dom DeSandro, the team's director of team security, but more than that, he's almost like an amateur psychologist, right? You know, he has a good pulse on players, a good pulse on personalities, and he's been doing this for a long time. He's been around a lot of players. And for them to make an investment, whether it's in draft or free agency, he needs to be satisfied with what they're getting or at least have a sense of what they're getting. And C.J. Garner Johnson is someone who, when he came in last year, I think it's fair to say. He was high maintenance to a degree, right? Like people in the locker room said that they had to get him. He told the story himself.

He came in right away and tried to be. sort of like, you know, the king of the defensive backroom, right, and sort of like held his head up high and then they had to sort of bring him down to life. And he, he said that he appreciated that. Exactly. And so there's, there's, uh, that part of it. But I do, I keep coming back to this. When he's on the field, he makes plays. And no doubt about it. There is a fun player to watch on the field. Exactly. Absolutely. And so I, I like the swing for someone who improves your upside of playmaking ability, athleticism, and

the competitive zeal to use that term. I also think that that like I don't think that they need necessarily more safeties, but I do think that it's clear that the way that the contract is structured, this is not prohibitive for continuing to add to the secondary

in some manner. Yeah. And it doesn't, because of his versatility, it doesn't inhibit the Sydney Brown development, right? And a matter fact, you can view them as complimentary players because you can play both one in the slot, one deep, you can mix and match. And I think there's, I think the versatility that C.J. Garner Johnson presents. I know that was an appeal a year ago, or a year and a half at this point. And I still

think that is part of the appeal now. He's someone who Hallie Roseman liked for a long time. The Eagles liked him coming out. The Eagles were. This is the Florida guy, I guess. We said he doesn't have that many Florida guys, but he does. Yeah, so, and, you know, C.J. Garner Johnson's a big gator. So him and how he can talk gators together. What do you think that conversation's like? I bet it's a good one, right? They probably, you know, share stories of their favorite Florida guys over the years.

Okay. I bless you. That was joyous and easy. Okay. The other thing that I Like I I don't know necessarily why I was so agitated last night Yeah you were fired up

I watched that back I was like are you just trying to be like disagreeable with me For the sake of the show No I do feel real strong I do take issue with like the narrative that like They missed him last year This is why they're bringing him back I don't think that that's a good way of doing business

But I also don't think that that's what they're doing I think he does make sense for what they want I do, however, I don't like the idea that, oh, what a grown-up thing for Howie Roseman to do to rectify a mistake. Like what a, what growth that shows from him? I think that's a little bit ridiculous. Because what he has done is he has won the negotiation. Like, they argued over the value last year. C.J. Gardner Johnson didn't think it was fair, so they didn't pay it.

They came back a year later and they're paying him less money. and what happened is in order to make like the agents look good because they had, remember the agents tweeted out like the stuff about the negotiations last year, what they did is they allowed them to push out the narrative that this is a three-year, $33 million deal, make them look good. But in reality, what has happened is like Howie Roseman has pantsed them in the negotiation, essentially. I think that's an overstatement there.

I mean, it's not as if he's coming for the league minimum. him. He's making decent money. The Eagles are making an investment in him. I also do think, yeah, I disagree with you in terms of the maturity angle of it. Now maybe that's not the right term. Maybe from C.J. Garner

Johnson, I'm willing to buy, but from Howie Roseman, like, it doesn't matter to him that the guy went elsewhere, and now he has come crawling back and they get the guy they wanted originally for, like, much less than they wanted. And it's structured in a way that works out for the team. Where, like, if he earns the money, great.

not fine. This is like the plot of every rom-com, right? You break up, you see what life's like without each other, and then you come back for a harmonious union, right? I would never watch a rom-com. I mean, you don't need to exhibit this toxic masculinity here, okay? I enjoy a rom-com every now and then, right? So, yeah, this is the plot of every one of those. I don't really agree with that, but that's okay.

I mean, many of them. There's an opening scene where Howie Roseman, you know, drops his accounting books in the middle of the hallway, and he bumps heads with CJ Gardner Johnson, and they look into each other's eyes and think, oh, this could be something. What's your favorite rom-com? Why am I asking you that question? What's my favorite rom-com? Good question. I don't know.

I mean, I'm... Knowing you, it's probably like some indie one that... Well, I'm a sucker. I'm a sucker for a love, actually. I've never seen that one. Is it good? We're seeing love actually. No.

Interesting. Actually, I've never seen it. Mm. Yeah. You don't believe in love? Oh, I very much believe in love. Okay. What's your favorite rom-com?

Probably the breakup. I mean, Vince Vaughn cracks me up, and there was that scene in there. So basically the plot of every rom-com by that, you only mean the breakup. Well, no, because in the breakup, they didn't get back together. Yeah. I'm sorry. We're going off. But, yeah.

But the scene with the lemons in the breakup, and then the scene when he's playing, Madden on the couch. Those are two Alzheimer's. I was cracking up when I saw both of those. I don't think I know those scene with the lemons. When his girlfriend... Which one? This is Vince Vaughn.

And Jennifer Anderson. Yeah. And they were having a dinner party. And she wanted him to get the lemons because they were like a decorative piece for she wanted nine lemons. He's like, what do you need nine lemons for? Right. That does sound very funny.

Can the chat support me here? The breakup. It's hilarious, right? What he did he need nine lemons for? Make some lemonade. Well, no, because she wanted for the centerpieces. And he was... Anyways, let's get back.

I don't know why we're off the rails already. I actually did some planning for the show. I had some things I wanted to discuss. I shouldn't say, actually, I always do plans. But I did planning for the show. And now we're talking about rom-coms in the first third of the show. All right. Well, let's get back on track by talking about brew dogs.

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And that's what Miller Light offers. Times change, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Light. Tastes like Miller Time to get Miller Light delivered right to your door, visit millerlight.com slash p.h-l-y-birds, or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces. You're not going to get better than that. There's a lot of talk about the Eagles cap space. One way that they're able to maneuver these deals is they treat it like having a

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Mortgage CS is an equal housing opportunity mortgage broker. All loans are subject to a credit approval. Certain restrictions may apply company NMLS ID number 146-4766. Visit mortgage CS.coms for more information. Tough thing about rom-coms is like where does the line. Oh, God, we're so on rom-coms. Like, you know, would you call there's something about Mary a rom-com? Would you call Bull Durham a rom-com?

Well, okay. I like both of those movies. You're not answering the question. Why I call them rom-coms? Yeah, like to do those kinds of... That's the great thing about... Would you call one of Julia's favorite movies the wedding singer or a rom-com?

Yeah, that is a rom-com. Absolutely. I like a wedding singer. So there's Julia. Julia, where do you stand here? On whether or not wedding singer is a rom-com? Yeah, and what your favorite rom-com is. I mean, I was thinking about this when you guys were going back and forth,

and I think I would qualify wedding singers. as a rom-com and it is still indeed my favorite rom-com. I mean, it was my favorite movie all. I would put a weather singer over Love, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I've told a story before of About Time. Never seen that one.

What's it about? That might be at the top of my list. Is it about time? It is literally about time. Okay. And the first time I watched it was on the flight back from our honeymoon. And, you know, you're always more, you're always more liable to cry. in a movie on a plane.

Like there have been scientific studies about this because like you're sort of like held captive. And it's really a thing. Yeah, it is a thing. And Rachel was asleep next to me. It was a long flight. And I was I was not just crying. I was like just an absolute blubbery mess.

Like we tried and like could barely catch my breath. I was crying so much at about time. I think it would hit you. I think it would hit you too. All right. I will watch it. I will give you one quick 30 second rom-com story. And then we'll circle back to.

the issue at hand, but this is probably on brand for me, so maybe I'm playing into a bit here. But when I was younger, like probably, I'd have to look up the year. I would guess 10 years old. I see this movie trailer with these NBA players in it, and I wanted to see this movie. And my parents were like, why do you want to see this movie? I was like, it's about the NBA. And they kind of looked at me funny. And so I went to see, forget Paris.

the way. Yeah, he was a ref, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. I remember being hooked by the same thing in the commercials. Yeah. Billy Crystal's an NBA referee. And I can only, I mean, there was a lot. I remember the NBA parts and that Billy Crystal ate veal parmesan. And I wasn't very interested as much in the whole Paris angle of it. But it's probably one I can appreciate a little more now. Okay. That's pretty good. I asked, I asked, I texted Rachel to see what her answer would be. She also said love actually. Oh. I'm going to ask Emily. That's why you guys are compatible. What's your favorite rom-com? The creator of love actually is also the same as About Time. Really? Wow. The man knows how to get to my heart.

Yep. I am guessing Emily's is, I'm guessing it's something borrowed. Something borrowed. Oh, no. She said, okay. She said, crazy rich Asians and something borrowed. Okay. Oh, nice.

Good for you. Okay. Would you call Groundhog Day a rom-com? Probably not. I think too dark. Okay. Okay. How about love in basketball?

Just said this on air. Oh, well, then I love that movie. Would you call Silver Lining's Playbook a rom-com? I think we've exhausted the rom-com angles. Let's get, so here. So, kind of odds would you give me on that one guy posting a comment underneath this video. It's a third day of free hundred-tay and talking about Rampo for 10 minutes. Well, you know what?

I actually don't feel as bad about this because we're going to, we're going to do like Four shows today, probably. You know, the Eagles are going to trade... We've got eight hours of content on football over the last two days. Take it easy. He goes to trade Josh sweat at some point, and we're going to do an emergency show. We did three shows yesterday. Three shows the day before.

Well, three shows the day before. In any event, so are we thrilled with the C.J. Gardner talk? I think about we through with the rom-com talk. No, well, unless you have anything else on the bone on C. No, well, I do want to see the contract details when they came out. I saw the Sequin-Barkley contract details this morning. for instance, and I can tell you that, I mean, it is a hefty deal, right?

There's 26 million guaranteed, and they're kind of locked in for two years on that. But it's not... Tracer just going in on me on Love, actually. I know it's a problematic movie. This is an nostalgia thing. But it's a strong deal for Sequin. It's a good deal for...

But it's not this like three-year staunch commitment. It's really two years and then they're going to see. So anyways, I thought... We can debate whether that's good money to pay for a running back, but it is, if you look at a percentage of cap-wise, and this is a point Joe Banner made, that the percentage of the cap is actually not that cumbersome relative. Like, if you look at where the cap is, you look at what a running-back contract was a year or two ago, it's actually not that cumbersome. And Joe thought it was a smart deal. And Joe is someone who in the past hasn't gone.

overboard with paying running backs. Yeah, I think the fully guaranteed second year is the thing that could come back to bite them if this is in fact somebody who is just at the end of his rope and it's sort of like the James Bradbury situation from this year and you can't get out of it. That's a good point. The reason that I am, if somebody else in the league

had signed Sequin Barclay to this deal, I would have said it was a bad deal. Okay. And the reason that I am more open to, it with this Eagles team is because of the things we've talked about it, and this is a little bit of repeating myself, but their path to being Super Bowl relevant is having a top three offense, and I don't know where else this offseason, they were going to be willing to add an upgrade like this. That was going to tangibly change the ceiling of the offense. Yeah, this was to your point

there, and I should also say I don't love paying this type of money for year seven of a running back, but I do think Sequin Barclay is a top of the league player and as I stated when this deal was made, I don't object to paying blue chip players. I don't object to paying A players, A money. But as this was framed, I'm curious to your thoughts on

this before we got into the cap discussion, would you rather Seekwan Barkley at this price or Darnell Mooney at this price because it's essentially the same? Or not essentially the same, it's comparable. Yeah, I mean, I would probably rather have Sequin a draft

wide receiver, but I don't, I don't, I would object to the false, I don't think that's a, yeah, like, would I rather have overpaid Xavier McKinney? Sure. And paid a running back less money, maybe. I mean, that's a, it's a spicy contract for Xavier McKinney, but I don't know, I might rather have done that. Well, let me stretch this conversation out. I mean, we weren't going on on, on this way, but let's look at two positions that the Eagles don't historically value in this way. would you rather pay this money to Patrick Queen or pay this money to Sequin Barclay? Yeah, I was going to frame it that way too.

It's a good question. I am skeptical of Patrick Queen paying him that much money. I don't think that I fully trust that he is like an elite linebacker because he hasn't shown it for more than one year. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that. I would probably rather do the Patrick Queen and have signed like an unlawful. okay running back or try to draft one, but I don't feel, I don't feel committed about that. I'm willing to go both ways. Yeah, I like the idea of a 24-year-old or he's turning 25, and there is projection there,

right? Patrick Queen was not that player before Rokwon Smith got there, and I think Sequin Barkley could be a better player with different players around him. I think we saw Patrick Queen play with one of the best linebackers in the NFL. But I, I I also think that the Eagles have had extraordinary success running the ball without paying a guy $13 million at that position. I mean, they've been one of the top running offenses with DeAndre Swift with Miles Sanders, right? And they haven't had that type of play at linebackers. So maybe the upside of what you can have as a team is higher if you pay a linebacker top of the league money. or it's not top of the league, but big, big money, I guess relative to what you've paid,

compared to what you pay, a running back big money compared to relative to what you paid. That said, if you're looking at the upside of the offense, and you are on record saying that the Eagles path, the winning, is with an elite offense, Saquan Barkley gives you a better pet to an elite offense. I don't think Patrick Queen makes you an elite defense. Yeah, I agree with that. Would you say that Happy Gilmore and Billy Madison are Ronpom's?

I wouldn't say happy. Yomore is, and I wouldn't even say Billy Madison is. I would call those more comedies with like romantic elements to it, but not romantic comedies. Okay. Like you're not going there for the romance part of it.

You're going there for the comedy part of it. Yes. Okay. All right, can I talk about the cap for a second? Please. And so there's a lot of responses when some of these deals come out. Like, the Eagles are wizards with the cap.

Right? And I agree. I think the Eagles do a real good job with contract structures. And as we've said on the show in the past and catching up those who are watching it, the Eagles view it like, A, they're not afraid of dead money. And they're not afraid of spreading or pushing the cap hits in the later years because they're thinking is the cap is going to grow. So the analogy Howie Roseman has used in the past is if you are buying a house, if you have the opportunity to buy a house, would you pay the cash up front or would you get a mortgage at a low interest rate and spread it over a period of time? That's how the Eagles approach it. But this notion that the Eagles are wizards with the cap or something like that, everyone in the league is playing by the same rules. This isn't, you know, and they all see the contracts, right? It's not as if the Eagles have proprietary information in terms of putting these contracts together.

There's creative ways they build these contracts with voidable years and things of that nature, but other teams in the league could do it. If you want to know what the Eagles' competitive advantage is, at least in my opinion, and they have really smart people putting these contracts together, Jake Rosenberg, Bryce Johnston, they do a good. good job there in the building. But where the Eagles have their competitive advantage is in cash spending. And what I mean by that is the way you structure these, is the way you can structure these deals this way is by putting big chunks of money in signing bonuses, spreading those signing

bonuses over X amount of years. And when you have voidable years, it's longer than what the stated time of the contract is. But you're on the hook to pay that bonus pretty early on. Over the past 10 years in the NFL, the Eagles have spent, have had more cash money on spending than any team in the league. This was in a Mike Reese article, Mike Reese from ESPN, he's the Patriots writer.

He was talking about how the Patriots were last in the league. The Eagles were first over the last 10 years. Last year, the Eagles were number two in the league, I believe, in cash spending. The cash spending is how they are able to do these because, and

the cap can be manipulative, money can't be manipulated right cash spending is if if you commit to paying this much in cash that's what you're paying and so the the fact that the eagles and i suppose you can say starts a geoffer right because he has to sign off on it the fact that the eagles are willing to pay this cash as opposed to doing kind of pays you go contracts allows them to structure things this way yeah and what you said at the end there is i think the key like what makes them cap wizards quote unquote and what allows them to be able to manipulate the roster that way is Jeffrey Lurie. It's his willingness to pay money.

Like, you know, the Raiders can't operate this way. Yep. The Patriots even, as you just said, can't operate. Like the Bengals can't operate this way because they have owners who are not willing to do that. The Colts can't operate this way. The Eagles are able to manipulate the roster this way and change. those contracts around because Jeffrey Lurie is willing to pay the money. Exactly.

Well said. That's a more succinct way of putting it than I did. Just to fact check myself, Eagles were number three last year in cash spending. This was from the NFLPA's data. And then this was from the Mike Reese article that I cited on January 22nd. Over the last 10 years, the Patriots ranked less in the NFL in cash spending at $1.62 billion, according to ESPN's roster management system. the Philadelphia Eagles at 1.92 billion were tops in the league over that span. So there's no one way to do it, but the way the Eagles structure these contracts is because their ability and their willingness to be high in cash spending.

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A couple of trades happening over the past couple minutes, Zach. Oh, wow. The Jets and Ravens sending Morgan Moses to the Jets for, I think, looked like a swap of fourths and a sixth. And then the Texans sending Malik Collins to the San Francisco 49ers, the defensive tackle. Not necessarily implications for the Eagles there, but the league year is approaching. It starts at 4 o'clock. If the Eagles are going to find a deal for Josh Sweat and or Hassan Reddick,

you would imagine that news is going to break over the next couple hours. What do you think is going to happen? I still think they trade sweat. I don't think they're going to cut him. I would be critical of their roster management if they cut Josh Sweat. and like because I like the Bryce Huff signing. I've said that. But I don't know if there's a big, you know, gain by cutting sweat and adding and adding Bryce Huff.

At that point, you know, I looked at it like the asset value you're getting in return for sweat is part of the appeal of bringing in Huff. So that would be a bad move if they were to cut them. I think they trade them. Maybe not a second, but let's say they get a third and a fifth. Okay. But they need to get something for Josh Sweat. They can't cut him for nothing. Yeah, I mean, there has to be more to the story here.

If they're actually willing to just release him, like that would be bizarre. And I can't imagine that that would be worth it. No, I agree. Okay, let's talk linebacker. Yes. Because as it stands, the Eagles have not made a move there. and most of the market has committed elsewhere. Here are the free agents who are still available at linebacker.

Bobby Wagner, 34 years old. Devin White, 26. Cody Barton, your boy, 28. Jerome Baker, 28, although he is visiting the Titans today. Tyrell Dodson from the Buffalo Bills, 26. Josh Woods from the Arizona Cardinals, 28. Your boy, Isaiah Simmons, 26. Devin Bush, who was with the Seahawks last year, another first round bust, 26, and then Akeem Davis Gather, who was just a special team's player, but was the, well, if you will remember, the linebacker taken after Davion Taylor in that 2020 draft, he's 27, doesn't have starting experience.

Like, are any of those guys moving the needle for you as a difference-making linebacker other than maybe Jerome Baker? No, it is the answer. and I understand the Eagles have valuations and they try to stick to their valuations clearly they haven't valued the linebackers the way the market has here because they can certainly offer opportunity right

this is going to be a problem and now I know go ahead yeah Howie Roseman if you're sitting in this room he would say Zach I tell you we talk about this every year the roster building does not end on the third day of free agency there's ways to upgrade your roster in the middle of the year in the middle of the offseason round draft

and training camp you know we were critical of safety at one point two years ago they traded for jay gardner johnson before the season we were critical of corner in 2017 they traded for ronald darby during training camp we were critical of running back in 2017 they had le garrett blunt after the draft and they add jaya jahy during the season so there's different it's it's not limited to the pressure point of the first few days of free agency But you also can't just count on on a major contributor being available. What you have to do is you have to have some of these contingencies. And I imagine that's what they're dealing with right now.

Right. We have not even begun really to climb the mountain of getting to even week one, let alone in-season additions. But if you just survey the landscape, like I'm trying to find who could be a legitimate trade target for them, guys who fit the, like last year of their deal. there are three guys who sort of makes sense. I've already talked about Ernest Jones with the Rams. If the Rams are not going to extend him,

maybe they can make him part of a deal. Pete Werner with the New Orleans Saints is a possibility, but I don't imagine them trading him because they're not the kind of team that sort of does that. You know, CJ Gardner-Jones-Ga-Jolson aside. And then Jeremiah Owusu Coromoa from the Cleveland Browns, they seem to like him too. He's a big-time player for them.

Like Ernest Jones is the one that makes sense to me. And then you're talking about like, just sort of older guys who can be patch fillers. And the other complicating thing here is you would say, okay, well, let's see what the draft does. And absolutely, that's true. And I have made the case that the Eagle should have taken more late round, like day three shots at linebacker over the past few years. But it is also a position like more than most where you can't really count on young guys contributing on defense at linebacker. it's a position that takes some time and some seasoning

where then that's why like the second contract guys often outperform the rookie guys there which is the opposite of running back and so if you were making a an agnostic case without knowing without having an opinion on Sequin Barclay and you said you're spending $13 million on a running back but you're going to draft a linebacker you should do it reverse

I would agree with that that's that's like divorcing Sequin from the conversation it's a little bit silly to talk about this as if the Eagles have made a decision here when this is just in the middle of a moment and they're going to do something at the position but I am a little bit worried about like counting on Nikobi Dean who is coming off of

two Liz Franks as Josh Tolentino told us and expecting him to be a major factor I think they know that I think they're going and clear-headed about that and if it is the case that it's like Nikobi Dean and Zach Cunningham week one that would be concerning. But at the same time, if you think that you have put,

let's say they add another safety instead, right? And they have made the secondary such that the linebackers, there's less asked of them. And the defensive line should be able to get after things. I think that's okay.

I don't generally disagree with the way that the Eagles value the linebacker position. But in this moment in time, yeah, it looks like they've got some work to do. They definitely have some work do they can't just say all right the back ends what it is the fronts what it is and they can get by in the middle like they they need more than Nikobie dean ben van sumeran and they can't just wait for

the draft it's not like a loaded draft either a name that i wanted to throw out to you is is david long uh david long junior with uh the dolphins the dolphins have signed two inside linebackers this week Jordan Brooks and Anthony Walker. David Long from reports, I wasn't like, I haven't studied David Long, but from reports had a strong year last year for Vic Fangio. I mean, I saw written articles there saying that he was like the underrated player on the Dolphins defense.

They signed him last year to a two-year, $10 million deal, I believe. You wonder if... He's a tape cruncher favorite. Yeah. Yeah. So you wonder if that's a move they can make just because the Dolphins signed two guys and they have Channing Tindal

who is a former third round pick. Yeah, that makes sense. It would surprise me, you know, of the players you mentioned, Jeremiah, Awusu Karamaya, again, Joker, I'll just say the Joker, he's the one who I like the most. He was a real valuable player

for that Browns team last year. The Browns have lost two linebackers. You know, they brought in Jordan Hicks, but I think that's a key player for them. the only question you would say is the Browns are tight against the cap as it is and he's going to command big money but the Browns are going for it this year too so I don't see them moving on from him unless they have to do you are there guys you like in the draft I know you've done your yeah there are guys um you know I I like Junior Colson from Michigan

I think that he's someone who can really help you I know that you know Eagles fans are going to be in the Jeremiah Trotter Jr. Hopefully we can talk to Jeremiah Trader Jr. this spring on this show. That'd be great. The player who's probably the most electric is Edgerman Cooper from Texas A&M. You're looking at him probably second round. You probably have to have to trade up. I think Junior Colson's the one. And then the name you're going to hear quite a bit. And this is probably a player that makes a lot of, like, if you watch the film, we look at the measurables, you're really going to like him. And that's Peyton Wilson from North Carolina.

Carolina State. Looks like Dallas got it? It looks a lot like Dallas got her. Early so. Yes. Peyton Wilson has some injury concerns. He's an old injured guy. Yes.

But he was like the best linebacker in college football last year. In terms of like the awards, he is, he was really productive at NC State. He tested extraordinarily well. He has good size. So there's a lot to like there, but there are injury questions. Okay. Okay. What do you think the next thing we're going to hear from the Eagles is? Wait, I just want to add this too, and he was, I'm not just saying this because he was the thumbnail.

One thing I did hear during the season is that the Eagles like Ben Van Van Zumer. Now, you don't want that to be, I see your face as you say this, the other listeners can see Boat rolling his eyes. Ben Van Van Zumer is someone who was impressing them on practice squad. They signed him to the active roster. he's on the roster going into next season. He wasn't like a futures deal guy. He's actually on the roster. But I'm not relying on Nicoby Dean and Ben Van Van Sumer.

And I'm looking at that as great. He's a poor fake smile for Christian Ellis. And what you're hoping, like the best case scenario for Ben Van Van Zumerant is that he takes the T.J. Edwards track. And that by... I don't even... I don't even think that's a reasonable best case. I think the best case scenario is he's kind of Groucher Hill. Oh, guys. Well, so that's the best case.

The Eagles need upgrade. Camus, Camus, Camus, Camus, Camus. I like Camus. He was the will. Here, we have a super chat. Talk about how much Devin White sucks. Gavin, what did Devin White do to you? Man.

I mean... Listen, I can sort of talk myself into Devin White because he's like a playmaker. like you know the the the numbers show that he was like a very good blitzer and if you're just talking about guys getting better over the course of their NFL's careers at that position certainly he has like the the athletic ability to do that and he's still very young but yeah I think you're going in very eyes open about this is a guy who has a reputation for freelancing and probably is not super dependable but it would depend on the price I'm not I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't wouldn't like crush them for signing him for five million dollars you've compared him to ernie sims yes i have yeah yeah i think that's probably about right another high draft pick who the eagles brought in shark in the water contract and yeah did did not materialize do you know anything to say about devon white feels like you're kind of guy i'm trying to i'm trying to i'm trying to show that i know something about football and not just rely on uh on you know big names in the draft look devon white look devon

White, yeah, if you watch the highlight reel, then you say, oh, man, like, he can make highlight-worthy plays. But on down-the-down basis, a consistent basis, he hasn't done that. That's why Tampa Bay is letting him go. Like, you know, I saw a quote from Jason Light, the general manager of the bucks, and he was talking about how you could throw, like, they need to throw a boat parade if they can keep, like, these guys. And they've hit a certain number of the guys. I don't think Devin White was on. on that list. So if the team's willing to move on from a guy who they drafted what, number five overall, is that right? Yeah. Yeah, number five overall. And they won a Super Bowl with that,

that probably says something. So I see Matt in the chat says he's fast, that has pedigree, Zeeb, loves him coming out. I mean, look, I get it. I will wear that joke and I'm self-facing in that regard. But when you're the number five pick in the draft, like a lot of people liked you coming out. So the league like Devin White coming out. I would not have spent the fifth overall pick on Devin White, but he is wearing a Super Bowl ring right now, not because of him, but he was a part of that. So is, uh, I also remember he rode horses. Oh, interesting. Yes. Okay. Him and Ed Oliver are the two horse riding players that stick out in my mind. Okay. I like that. Horseback riders. He used to ride a horseback through Ellisues campus. Right. Right a horse through

Los U's campus. Yes. I can probably... Is that allowed? I mean, when you're a star on LSU, you could probably... Hey, what'd you make of your boy, Nick Saban, you know, standing up there next to Ted Cruz and throwing all of college athletics under the bus, and all of a sudden, and now it's out, now it's about the money when he's been about the money for so long anyway.

I mean, look, I get that there's complications now for college sports coaching. I think it's about time that players are getting some of the money that they're revenue that they're generating. Everything I believed in for my entire career is. I think it's, I think it's, it's more nuanced than like it's, I mean, there is nuance associated with it. You know, I, I'm not an expert on, on this, but like from what I basically understand, you know, there's this big push to you. unionize. College sports, I saw Dartmouth do it. For instance, right, it was Dartmouth.

That's right. Some of the complicating factors there, and I could be wrong, but from what I understand is that if they're then employees, then, you know, there are Title IX ramifications. Football teams basically fund non-revenue sports at a lot of these schools. And a big, if you look at the Olympic movement in the United States, a big part of it's been the growth of non-revenue sports. part because the revenue generated from football. So I definitely, I think college sports, as we know it, it's one of the great things about

it is the non-revenue sports and the opportunities for non-football athletes. And a lot of these athletic departments are funded by the football program. So you don't want to see the end of college football as we know it there. But there needs to be a way that college athletes or that college football players can have a piece of the revenue that's being generated without like college football essentially going by the wayside but to answer your

question succinctly yeah I mean I think Nick Saban's benefited from this system quite a bit I think you did a very good job of explaining what like the nuance there and why you know it is a little bit complicated but for Nick Saban to sit up there and be like oh

my gosh my my poor like human development passion of the past 30 years give me a break. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and by the way, all these coaches are, like, they benefited from the system. You know, Tony Alford, the running backs coach for Ohio State, he's leaving today to go to Michigan, right? If the running backs coach can do it, then why can't the running back do it, you know? So. Yeah, exactly. All right, closing in here on the hours, Zach, anything else that you want to talk about? You did all your prep for the show, anything else that

is in your notes. Yeah, so I am curious when you, look, I did want to have that Patrick Queen conversation with you, which we had, where you would spend those resources. But when you look at the moves that the Eagles have made to this point, okay, what's like the, and when you look at the deals that have happened, what's the one that they missed or the one that you would say as you look at this, now that you see what the prices are, now that you see how the Eagles have spent their money. Like, I wish they had, you know, if you were Howie, I wish we would have gotten into that or that's a price I could have played at or if we had our plan a little differently, we could have gone after that and done this.

That's a good question. I mean, like, you know, the McKinney thing is, it's just, it is very expensive and so it's hard for me to fault them for not going for that. I mean, you could, I know that you might make the case for just doing the Brian Burns deal. Exactly. Instead of signing Bryce Huff, I don't mind not doing that. I mean, it would probably just be like picking one of the middle linebackers, like the middle range linebackers and having paid for one of those guys. But I think patience is probably a smart thing there.

I don't know. I don't know that there's anything that jumps out at me as like, oh, what are they, I can't believe they missed out on that thing. What about you? Yeah, I think that Brian Burns trade is one that I would have gone on if I were the Eagles. Even at $30 million a year, I think that's what the rate's going to be for a player like Brian Burns. That contract doesn't scare me. And I understand the Eagles don't have a second round pick near the Giants pick, but I would have traded number 22. And I need to be consistent.

I wrote this last week. I would have traded number 22 and pay $30 million a year for Brian Burns and not signed Bryce off. I think Brian Burns is a building block player and I

that's the path that I would have gone and I think it's it's going to be it's going to be tough in the NFCE seeing Brian Burns on one side Kvon Tibido on the other Dexter Lawrence in the middle like we can make jokes about that offense

and I that offense has it has concerns but that front is going to give you a lot of trouble. Yeah. I think they'll be okay. Against the Giants, but yeah. And then there was a small under the Radom Road that I really didn't see until I kind of went through stuff.

And that was the Carlton Davis trade to the Lions. When you talk about cornerbacks, that's an interesting one. Was that one that you would have wanted to get, like the Lions need corners. Yeah, I would have been interested in that, potentially. But I do, I think that corner is. is like, as we're looking at it,

unless they're going to make a move for a big guy, which I think is on the table, I expect that to be one where they're looking at the draft specifically. Okay. And are you expecting that to be the first round? I think one of the picks in the first two rounds. First two rounds. I would agree there. Yeah.

Okay. Well, we're going to have a long afternoon and evening of waiting around and getting ready to have some emergency pods. But I guess we can close up shot for this one, Zach. Where do you see so After you slept on it Did you come to What?

I don't know where you're going with this Go well no I just want I want to know if you've You know come to the good side of appreciating Devante Parker Um Maybe I was a little harsh on that With your SUV Yeah I stand by what I said And I I wrote this

If you're looking for that big bodied backup Receiver Give me Donovan people's Jones, right? Give me like a 25, 26 year old who can be your wide receiver for. I just, this is like the Miles Austin signing to me. It's like why are you adding a depth piece at that age at this point of his career? I understand. There's no, there's no downside. I get it. It's just not appealing to me. Also, I do want to stand up for myself a little bit. I asked Emily, my wife, about the Barbie thing.

Yeah, I brought this up. And she was actually on my side here. She was like, she said, yeah, why would you go and see Barbie? You're a man. No, no, not that. She said she went to see it with her friends. It's not a kids movie. Like, I wouldn't take Sloan to see it.

And it's not, you know, if we went on like a date to see Barbie, that's one thing. but she went with her friends. I'm not going to, I, she wouldn't expect me to go to the theater to see Barbie. Well, she wouldn't expect you because she knows you. No, it's not. It's not. Now, maybe on a rainy Sunday afternoon or something,

we're sitting at home looking for something to watch. We can put on barb. But she was like, no, I am on your, she. She often, like, she takes your side a lot. But she was kind of on my side with this. She was like, why are you, like, why would you see Barbe? Barbie. She saw it and said that. She's like, this is not a movie for you to go and see. Okay. I think that's rolled into her knowing who you are. I don't think so. I don't think so.

She's a, and I think you paint the wrong picture of me on this show, too. I'm not. But yeah, I, wait, someone said, Jake. I was. I had this and I wasn't going to cut off your Barbie conversation. No, no, please do this. But yes, the Eagles just put out that they have extended Jake Elliott, the kicker. So all the special teamers are locked up. Good for Jake Elliott, man. I mean, I could tell you the whole Jake Elliott story about how he was picked out of the crowd at a high school pepper rally, or high school, he was at a high school pep rally, basically, to kick a field goal. That was the start of it. The coaches on the football team were trying to get him to come over, but he didn't want to.

to play because it was tennis season. He was such a good tennis player and he agreed to do it. And as you've discussed, and as we've discussed, one of the best like pound for pound athletes on the team can play any sport, it seems, and do it well. Adam Schepter says

it is a four-year, $24 million deal and the $6 million average ties Elliott with Justin Tucker for the highest paid kicker in NFL history. Listen, if you got money to throw around, I guess that's fine. You also taking care of all special teams business.

I mean, kickers are important, right? We've seen the consistency that he has. Yeah, I don't object to this. Yeah, I mean, I just, my, I will see how the contracting is structured if there are, if there are outs. If for whatever reason, he goes wayward. But, yeah, I think that's, I don't have, I don't have a problem paying him like a, like a very good kicker. He's a very good kicker. He's now, it's through the 2028 season.

now robin says you're like journalism can so you should see it okay i promise you i will see barbie for the sake of the show i just i called her on my way home the other day like so worried did i i mean it really was just the revulsion the the initial reaction to the the notion that you could possibly ever see barby that was the that was the thing that people latched on to i think you you put me in a bad position on that one i don't think so i just asked if you saw Barbie, you're like, Barbie? That was not, that was not my reaction.

That was not my reaction. But, yeah, anyways, I want to stand up for myself on that one. Okay. That wasn't necessarily like the greatest closing argument I've ever heard, but as long as Emily's got your back, that's what matters. She definitely has my back on the Barbie conversation. Okay. All right, that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast.

We'll probably talk to you in like eight minutes. But whenever news happens, we will be here to have an emergency pod for you. And if not, we'll talk to you tomorrow at noon. But something tells me that that's unlikely. So for Zach and Julia, we thank you for listening. Congratulations to Jake Elliott. We will be back whenever it warrants. And as always, we love you.