PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Philadelphia Eagles Minicamp review, Day 2: How’s Jalen Hurts looking in Kellen Moore’s offense?

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

The Eagles were on the field for the second of two scheduled minicamp practices Wednesday, with another round of rotations in the defensive secondary as Isaiah Rodgers, Kelee Ringo, Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean all took reps with the first-team defense. Today’s focus is on the offense, though, where A.J. Brown and DeVonta Smith remained the focus of the passing game. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf tell you what they saw and heard and smelled at the NovaCare Complex, with notes on the offensive line depth chart, a gassed-up third-year tight end and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Eagles podcast on a Wednesday, three-thirds. Fresh off the practice field for the second day of three scheduled mandatory minicamp practices, Bo Wolf, Zach Berman here to tell you all about what we saw, what we heard, what we smelled. Zach, how you doing? I'm doing great. I saw you about an hour ago, but good to see you. I am at the Eagles facility. The view on the screen is how we left each other's company.

Exactly. But for those wondering, I'm at the Eagles facility. centering my shot to make sure it works and excited to talk about day two of mandatory minicamp enjoyed catching up today with brandon graham and devon white uh guy keely wringo yeah keely wringo you can go on down the list dallas scotter it was in it was a nice time a j brown yeah i don't want to leave him out so enjoy it was jack i got to say i i think that emily Berman is generally speaking as trustworthy as it gets, but I do have to disagree. I don't think you look like an old man in that polo.

Well, you know what, if I'm being honest with you, I wore this so it wouldn't come up as a topic of the conversation. Like I'm trying to be as nondescript as possible. I didn't think my attire yesterday was going to be podcast fodder. So I thought if I went with something that would be nondescript, it wouldn't come up. I certainly didn't think it would come up in the first two minutes of the show. nonetheless. I appreciate the, I don't know if it's a compliment, but I appreciate it.

Absolutely, it's a compliment. I think you look like a young man, a young whippersnapper. Well, relatively, I don't know, middle-aged yet, but getting there, right? Knock on wood. I'll take middle-aged at this point. Okay. Yeah, middle-aged. I'd sign up for 38 more.

I've always thought like 40 to 50 range is more middle-aged, so I'm not quite there at middle-aged. Yeah, I mean, I'd love, I'd love. I'd like to get to a point where this is no longer. But, you know, offer me the choice. What I take it now, I think you've got to say yes. Fair enough. We don't need to get into the advancements of life expectancy. So we'll just get on to it.

You probably trust technology enough that you're willing to roll the dice. And eventually they're going to get us all to, you know, 185. Once again, we don't need to go down that path here. When we just watched an hour plus a practice and had a chance to, speak to some high profile Eagles. Jack, I will tell you the amount of respect that I have for you and the

I don't know what this is going. The commitment to you and the show is that every fiber of my being is telling me to take this off the rails and get into that discussion, but I will allow us to get back to the conversation at hand with the Eagles. Let's talk about what we saw today.

We said that today was going to be more on the offense, although there were some very interesting things that happened in the secondary today. We can get to that in a little bit, but because we said that, let's start on the offense. And I want to ask you just generally speaking, an open-ended question to start. Jalen Hertz threw another interception today on the first set of downs in seven-on-seven. I believe it was the fourth play of seven-on-seven. He was intercepted by Reid Blankenship. There were a couple other plays that looked like maybe ill-advised throws. I want to know your general take on what you have seen from Jalen Hertz in this new offense

taking into account everything about, you know, not wanting to overstate anything, knowing that this is a new offense they're installing, but just generally your opinion of what you have seen of Jalen Hurts so far. Yeah, I suppose I could say I'm underwhelmed. I don't want that to be a headline in the sense that Jalen Hertz is underperforming. You know, he missed this, missed that. So I would just say that it hasn't been a remarkable spring from the limited times we've seen. four sessions. That doesn't mean it's he's been, he's played poorly, that there haven't been many completions downfield. A lot's been underneath. The ball has, has been in the opponent's hands a few times each practice. Well, a few times overall, but, you know, over the course of practices today, yesterday, certainly last week, right? And then there have been times when he's kind of held on to the ball. Now, in a game, he might be extending that play, and that's a 15-yard run, right?

So you don't quite know the specifics of it. But I would say that this is not one of these lights out springs where the headline is Jalen looks great. I wouldn't say that. But I would also give Jalen the benefit of the doubt. Like you mentioned, new offense, we have a limited sample size. We don't quite know what the read is on each play. So there's a lot of caveats. But it would be disingenuous to it would be disingenuous to the audience for me to

say like Jellon's been awesome because I haven't found Jellin to be awesome. Yeah, I think there are a lot of caveats to throw. As you said, this is a new offense that they're installing. We have not seen every practice. We saw only one OTA each week. We have now seen two mini-camp practices. But I do think it is fair to say, given that you and I have both seen a lot of practices over the years.

We have seen a lot of Jalen Hertz practices over the years. we have seen a lot of spring practices over the years that it has been overwhelming. And I think that that's fair to say. I mean, you know, Jalen Hertz went training camp two years ago heading into the 2022 season. I remember he threw an interception on the first day

of practice. I think it was a Reed Blankenship interception and then one like at the very end of camp. And over the course of all of camp, there were two interceptions, right? This is a passing camp in the spring. And he has thrown a lot of interceptions and also interceptible.

balls. So I think there is every reason to, as you said, give him the benefit of the doubt. They are installing a new offense. They are also installing a new defense. And so he is seeing things on defense that might be catching him by surprise. That is another important part of this, calculation. But he has looked great. And that's fine. That's not a big deal. It shouldn't move the needle one way or, you know, or at least significantly about your. expectations about his season, but he has not had a very good spring from what we have seen. Yeah, and to build on what you said about this being a passing camp, it's, it's, there's, there's very little 11 on 11. It's mostly 7 on 7, right? So when you think about what often

causes interceptions, it's a pass rush that disrupts timing, right? Or a pass rush where there's a hand on a ball and it's, it's deflected. There are coverage interceptions here. or intercept or, I don't want to say poorly thrown passes, but misfired or they're not in the same spot, whatever it may be, right? I think I would say, I would say that most of them have not been interceptions because of accuracy issues. They have been interceptions because he has not seen the defenders. Yes, exactly. And so that's more of, I think, the noteworthy part of this is that there are times, even during training camp, where the pass rush is coming in, you got to throw the ball quickly, right? even though you can't get sacked, there's a, there's a rush that affects your timing.

There's nothing here that would affect your timing. In seven on seven, the whole thing is supposed to be, you know, it's a passing practice. So for this to be in the opponent's hands, as often as it is, I don't want to say it raises alarm, but we would not be giving an accurate description of what we're watching. if we did not account for that. Yeah, there was one play today. So he threw an interception on the first, on the fourth play of seven-on-sevenths to read Blankenship.

That was one where Blankenship, you know, read it correctly and stepped in front of the read before the ball was thrown. It was intended for Devante Smith. There was one later in practice where Cooper DeGine was working as the starting nickel, the first team nickel. And he sort of came off of his man who was going to the post, I think, and undercut a throw to A.

J. Brown, which Isaiah Rogers was in good coverage on anyway. And Dijin drops the interception, probably should have been an interception. But that was one where it was very clear that, like, you know, Jalen Hurts had no idea that Cooper Degine might be coming off that route. And afterwards, C.J. Gardner Johnson runs over. And he's like, I told you. I told you. Like they were, you know, they, they had that scouted as a defense. And so I don't know, maybe this is, maybe if you want to be flowery about it, maybe it's like, oh, Vic Fangio has, really done a good job this spring, like getting the defense prepared for what they're going to see on offense. And they have, you know, they have scouted Jalen Hertz well. But again, not a huge deal.

Not even a big deal. But so far, what we have seen in practice is that the passing from the starters has been a little bit underwhelming and not super crisp. Yeah. And I don't want to couch every statement with, don't read too much into us, not a big deal. That's a lot. That's, said, one of the big stories going into this summer, or the spring, rather, but even the summer is, is Kellyn Moore's offense and how's the adjustment? It's a new scheme. Jalen Hertz was in sponge mode during the spring, right? So how is, is that adjustment going? That's, the first part of it. But the second part of it, and this is kind of a response to what you're saying, maybe Fangio's defense is really good. We both can agree. The Eagle's path to being a really

good team this year is Gioen Hertz in the passing game being awesome, right? Or I should say the overall offense, right? Because they have Sequin Barkley and they have the offensive line. And but it's, you have a top five offense. Yes, exactly. Like if,

if they're hanging their head, they're not hanging their head, hanging their hats on Vic Fangio's defense being like what makes this team great this year, then I don't think the team will be great this year. What would make the Eagles great is a franchise quarterback, the best wide receiver combination in the NFL, one of the best offensive lines in a top running back and putting that all together to have a prolific offense because all the ingredients are there. So it's spring.

We'll see what, you know, training camp will give a larger sample size, certainly. Training camp will also provide, you know, they'll be farther along in the development in the installation. but if they look like this two weeks in the training camp, you start to say, are they just not showing anything or are they behind, right? Sure. What do you make up, by the way, on this conversation, because the person I was speaking next to,

or sorry, the person I was standing next to and speaking to during practice, I asked him, has J-1 completed a downfield pass in the four sessions? We've been here. He's like, I was just talking about that with somebody else. what do you make of that part of it anything nothing uh did the other person agree that there has not been one yeah exactly yeah that has not been one i mean i do think that that is one where

like it is probably the best ball that jillen hurts throws is those one-on-one balls on the outside those downfield throws i think i would not super worry about that because you have a j brown and devonte smith who can make those plays um the you know the opposite offense is going to seek out those plays. I would be less worried about that, but it is true that they have not had a ton of explosive plays on offense. Yeah. And part of it, by the way, might be the route concepts that we're seeing right now, too, right?

Devonte and AJ, they're two best guys downfield. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of underneath, sure, and intermediate. Now, he did have, Joan had a nice pass to AJ. It's probably 20 yards downfield across the middle today. in tight coverage, AJ made the catch. So, you know, it's not a whole open interceptions and incompletions here, right? But yeah, yeah, that one stood out as a nice play. But in terms of, you know, a vertical passing element,

you haven't seen much of that as far as completions during the four days we've observed. Now, I'm curious, Zach, from the Kellynne Moore architecture of the offense, you know, A.J. Brown and Devante Smith have said over the past, a couple of days that there is maybe a little bit more freedom for the wide receivers in this offense i don't know if that's overstated or what sometimes you can sort of take something a guy says on the podium as like just a an offhand thing and run with it um however uh you know we have seen a little bit more motion pre-snap than than we did last year certainly you have been watching from the the bird's eye view and i'm actually curious to ask you why that is but uh so

maybe you see maybe you are seeing the scope of the offense a little bit wide What have you seen from the offense and has anything jumped out to you as being different? First off, the why that is is because the Eagles, they stand on the sidelines now. As, you know, sometimes you stand behind the, you know, the offense or behind the defense, right? But they're standing on the sidelines, offense on one side defense on the other. So in order for me to actually see, I would kind of need to be far back. and this way I'm actually consistent with the line of scrimmage. So that's why I am up there.

It gives me a good perspective. When they're on that field and it's horizontal, it's north-south. Horizontal, when I say north-south, it's horizontal to us because of the arrangement of the fields. You know what I'm talking about in training camp, the fields are east-west. So anyways, that was a. You were not, it seemed that one went over your head a bit. Excuse me.

It did not go over my head. I understand what you're saying. Okay. Okay. So quick deviation. You didn't big deem me with your big old brain because you went east-west on me because of the orientation of Pass-Young and Broad. I mean,

I just want to tell you so. Paterson. Oh, I just want to tell you something. I received a DM yesterday from my. from a listener who said, I'm not saying who it is. I'm reading out loud because I'm not saying who the listener is. Zach, and join the pod, but you have to stop asking Bo, no sell on that. Turn the tables on Bo, say, guess that went over your head?

Or I'll give you a minute to get that one. So I was trying to different. You don't want to say who it is because you're embarrassing someone of being very dumb. No, no, no. I was trying a different approach there. Okay. And I think you reacted the way he probably anticipated that. It wasn't a smart thing.

Wasn't like. Well, there was a couple. How dare you? Like I don't understand cardinal directions. You looked at me so quizzically as I was explaining that. Yeah, but it didn't really explain the East West had nothing to do with why you're standing up there. Really. So I said, so when in training camp, okay, the fields are different orientation.

I understand. You know, you've only got so many. chances to be on the field and hearing these guys and seeing it up close and personal why choose to be further away let me explain this okay in training camp the fields are the are the different orientation when you're on the stand and when you're when you explain it remember that i'm a dumb person yes okay so if i'm standing up on the stands during a training camp practice i am behind the end zone. I don't have the same vantage point. This, OTAs are the only time I'll be in and the minicamp are the only times I can stand up there and be in line with the line of scrimmage.

I think it's a very good vantage point for these fields from this practice. So that's, that's why I'm saying. You're a football. I'd be no understand. Okay. All right. So, all right so let me roll back into what I observed I'm sorry what was the question Kellyn Moore's offense what have you seen that is different yeah pre-snap they are active pre-snap and

there are times when when the slot receiver is is running not just in motion but like almost like a jet motion right there are there are shifts. There are a handful of, it looks different pre-snap. There's more creativity pre-snap.

Now, Jordan Mila, I'm said today, it's an offense that loves to play action. We're not seeing much play action because there's not running right now. He also says it's an offense that loves to run and it's an offensive love to pass. It was just, it was just word salad. Yeah, okay. Okay. So anyways, but so we're not seeing much of that. I think the big change that I would see is the pre-snap movement. I am not, I don't have enough information here to ascertain what's different with the route concepts. I can say just from the naked eye without studying it, without watching it, or I am watching, without watching it back, is that there is a lot short intermediate game. I am not seeing AJ or Devante downfield as often, but again, might be a small sample size.

And that pre-snap motion in these camps because of the orientation of the line of scrimmage, that's east-west. Yes, that is east-west. Yes, the pre-snap motion, yes. By the way, the audience is not at practice. So I'm explaining something. And typically, when you think of something horizontal, you don't think of that north-south. So therefore, I felt I needed to give that explainer. Yeah, that's why I gave the quizzical look.

Okay. Yes. Because it felt unintelligible to me. me from someone who's not there, but that's okay. So therefore, I was trying to explain it. I guess the going over your head recommendation really touched the nerve, and I will not use that line again because I certainly do not want to have commenters on YouTube saying, these guys hate each other, which is definitely not the case.

Speaking of which, by the way, an update from our stocks correspondent, Defob, Jan McQuaid, who wants to let you know that Navidia up almost 5% today. I'm not surprised. Yeah. I mean, AI is here. I'm going to give a little tease. AI does have a line or more than a line, but a brief part in a paragraph in the book that's coming out in September.

Little tease there. Artificial intelligence or Alan Iverson? artificial intelligence, which Navidia is, you know, the leader. I should not be buying it. No, it's actually, it's from a very intelligent. It's from a very intelligent person kind of describing what's, what's ahead in the next 25 years of, you know, the Eagles in the NFL. And artificial intelligence comes in to play. So just something that's just something to keep in mind.

It's over my old dummy head. Please don't cancel your pre-order. Please, please, please. I'm not canceling. It's just it's two words out of 87,000, okay? So a minuscule percentage. Okay. Minuscule, I don't understand what that word means.

You're going to run this bit to the ground, I imagine. I think, unfortunately, I do think that this is going to be a long-lasting bit. Okay. I'm just trying to listen to the audience. That's your first problem. I know that. Have I ever told you about the pizza shop? All right, Zach.

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At right aid you may need, including over the countermedic, including over the countermedicons, household products, cosmetics, and more. Just ask your pharmacy team for details. And of course, restrictions apply. You getting better at that. Well, that wasn't the disclaimer. That's okay. Yeah.

There's a, there's a, a right aid read that requires the disclaimer. And I actually did work on the disclaimer recently, but we haven't had that read this this week. We did have at our... It would make a good like a training montage video, you just working on the disclaimer, you know, waking up in the morning, looking yourself in the mirror, brushing your teeth, like you're on, you know, you're on the workout bike, working on the disclaimer and they're on the drive to work. No, that's where I did it in the drive to work. Yeah, I was at a light and I just read it out loud.

but back at our old podcast we had to read the disclaimer in the betting advertisements and I stumbled on them a few times and I didn't want to stumble on them anymore so I made sure that I read it I got the script down and I felt strong about that and then you just had to pre-tape it once and we were good to go there you go Zach let's take a little departure from the conversation of the offense for the moment and talk about the secondary because we want to put on our rose-colored glasses. I can explain to people why the future is bright for potentially the Eagles cornerbacks brought to you by Shadyrays.

Head to ShadyRays.com and use code P-H-L-Y at checkout or 35% off polarized sunglasses. Four or 35% off polarized sunglasses. Today, Zach, interesting because yesterday we saw Keeley Ringo working with the ones. today it was a rotation. Started off. First set of plays for the first team defense. Isaiah Rogers on the outside. Second set.

Keeley Ringo on the outside opposite Daria Slay. Then they come back for the third one and it's Quinion Mitchell with the starters for the first time that we have seen opposite Daria Slay. And then later in practice, Cooper DeGine working with the ones as the nickel corner. So you're seeing a lot of those guys rotating in with the ones and friends. frankly, they've all looked pretty good. Now, this is sort of in conjunction with the offense, not necessarily lighting things on fire. But Quinean Mitchell, working with the ones today for the first time that we saw,

Zach, what did you make of that? What did I make of it? I didn't make too much of it because I still feel like he's behind Rogers and Ringo, or Ringo and Rogers in the pecking order. You do? Quignan. Yeah. Yeah, do you disagree?

Well, I'm talking about like in the in the horse race, the jockeying for. Oh, I still think it's going to be Quinn. Yeah, I still think it's good. I'm saying right now, though, well, sure. He's not getting first team snaps over those guys. Yeah, but we have talked about like, you know, is Vic Fangio willing to play these rookies with the starters? And it didn't even, we didn't even get to training camp before we've now seen Quinnia Mitchell rotating the ones. Yeah.

So then maybe that is a sign of. progress for for quinyon i think that asaiah rogers and keeler ringo jumped out to me more during these sessions than quinian mitchell has but this isn't to say quignon has played poorly yeah as you say it the fact that it's mandatory minicamp and he is getting work with the ones can be interpreted as a positive sign right he also he got snapped with the ones in seven on seven they had a four cornerback look they had a dime look there we're on dime a lot on defense yeah and quinine mitchell was uh throughout one of the two inside corners in those dime packages. Exactly.

Which was interesting. And actually, what was also interesting, and to correct something from yesterday, we said that we didn't see Cooper DeGine work on the outside yesterday. Someone did correct me and say that there was at least one snap yesterday where that was the case. And today, in dime with the twos, Cooper DeGine was on the outside, not on the inside, which was a little bit interesting. But I think the future is bright interpretation of this is that the cornerbacks have played so well that is not egregious or glaring that Quinnion Mitchell hasn't been like a regular with the ones. Because like I said, you can make a strong case for Keatinglingo who gets his hands on past attempts, who is tight in coverage, Isaiah Rogers, who's been a strong performer here.

And I've made this comparison on the show before, and I will continue to say it and I will write it. The cornerbacks this year remind me of the wide receivers going into the 2017 season, where the Eagles addressed it during the offseason. They were deeper than they had been in a few years. And they had a surplus in training camp. And they traded from that position of strength because the Eagles have, you know, four guys. really and that's not even including their starter the past two years who was the second team hall pro right they have four guys who i who i think you can make a case could be a starter on the outside for you week one and that has not it's also not including cooper de jean then that's not even including cooper de gene yeah so this is this is a position of strength it it's i i give i give them credit in that they uh they took you know they they they They had some options at this position before, you know, they traded their 2024 pick for Keely Ringo, like we said. They're their 24 third round pick for Keely Ringo.

And he's entering year two of development. They had Isaiah Rogers waiting in the wings, right? But you didn't know about either one of them, right? They're still projection there. And they still spend their first and their second round pick on a cornerback. And now they have, they have more depth at that spot, young depth, quality depth that they've had in a long time. So if there's any position where you say the future is bright, brighter than what it had been, I think cornerback is where there's been the biggest overall improvement on the depth chart.

So do you think, let's say that we make it through training camp with everybody healthy in that secondary? Do you think it gets to a point preseason where they feel like they need to deal somebody? And obviously it's not going. And I mean from the top five. So meaning basically Ringo, Rogers or Slay, which I think is probably unlikely. Oh, trading one of those guys. One of the top five.

No, that would really surprise me just because you still don't know how the two rookies are going to look, right? Even if they show promise in training camp, they're still rookies. And Slay is, you know, he's on the older side here, right, obviously. So you want to have those starting options. I think it's more you trade from your depth. Now, I don't know what value Eli Ricks will have. But that's the name you brought up. And that's the name I would look at.

Now, to your point, the Eagles traded Jordan Matthews in 2017, to use that example. Jordan Matthews was, and he entered camp as a top three receiver for them. he was their leading receiver the previous season. I think actually the previous two seasons for that, right? So that would be akin to trading, you know, someone notable. Would you agree that Rogers of the five is the most likely to be dealt? Probably so because there's the least amount of term on his deal, right? So, you know, if you're looking simply where they are long term, you have two years left after this, you know, so three years left.

You have already made something from your investment. Like you've- Exactly. Exactly. You're signing up for, you know, it's not, you're selling maybe a little bit early, but you've already made good on the investment. Exactly. It's like they were so proud of the San Bradford trade because like they signed them to a contract and then they trade them. And it's like they bought this traffic, right?

And so yeah, so you you basically got something for, I don't want to say for nothing, but a small investment, you turn into something that you like. But I think that because Slave might not be here beyond this season, and because you don't know how these rookies are going to pan out, I think if you have four corners, 26 and under what? Rogers is 26, which is 25. But in any event, you know, Keeley Ringo is 21, turns 22 next month, right? 26 for riders.

Yeah, 26 and under. Quinion Mitchell, 22. Cooper DeGine, 21. I think you want those four guys here, and then you try to figure out beyond the season. But I would agree, of those four Rogers, what would be the one most apt to trade? Okay, gotcha.

All right, let's get back to offense, Zach. We spoke to AJ Brown before practice today. He has been there throughout the offseason. obviously very involved in the passing game. I actually thought today was an interesting day from Jilline Hertz because it started and it was very much on my radar like, oh my God, every single pass is going to either Devante Smith or AJ Brown.

And it was sort of like that through the first two sessions. And then he started spreading the ball around a little bit more. But the offense is always going to flow through those guys in the passing game. What have you seen from AJ Brown in particular? And what did you say? Yeah, Nick Siriani had a. comment yesterday that of the passes intended for a j brown he's he's he's got the highest percentage of passes intended for him which would surprise me a bit from a volume perspective right like if

if you're throwing to him more invariably there there will be passes well yeah maybe it's the kind of deal where like he's the only one who qualifies except the bar he's the only one who qualifies for the batting title he's the only one he's getting through on the ball yeah because i i i was thinking like there's there's got to be like, I mean, I mean, not Britt and C.J. Uzoma.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, he gets two passes throwing him and he catches to him, right? But,

no, AJ, AJ's been pretty money this, this, this, this, this camp. There was the play

when Isaiah Rogers jumped in front for the interception when they were backed up third and six, uh, two, you know,

two practices ago at OTAs last week. There was the play today when Cooper the gene, you know, you know, as you said, peeled off his coverage jump. got his hand on the ball. But most of the times when the ball goes to AJ Brown, it's caught.

As I was looking through my notes, and the reason I'm looking at my phone is I didn't have my pen today, so I kept my notes in the notes app. The incompletion to Brown was a dead play. I think Josh Sweat jumped off sides in 11 on 11. And so I should say dead play, free play, threw downfield AJ, kind of overthrew him a bit, right? But overall, if the ball's going to AJ, it's being caught. And there hasn't been as many. Yeah, if I'm thinking out loud here, there have been more miscommunications with Dallas Goddard than with AJ Brown.

You remember the one today along the right sideline where I don't know if he threw it to the wrong shoulder or he just misfired. It happened in routes on air too with Rancocka Tara. Yeah. So maybe it's more the tight ends. but when the ball's going to AJ Brown, he's, he's catching it. How about the running backs in the passing games? We saw Sequin Barclay split out wide a couple times today. We also saw a little 21 personnel package with the starters with Will Shipley and Kenny Gainwell on the field together.

Do you expect this to be a big part of the passing game, or do you think this will eventually fizzle out as it normally does? But what did you make him Nick Siriani's answer yesterday when I asked him about wide receiver depth? The first guy he mentioned was Grant Calcutterra. Yeah. So I asked him about the wide receiver three spot. And he said it's not necessarily the third wide receiver because you have to think they're going to be in 12 personnel. They're going to be in 21 personnel. And he said even though they don't have a fullback, they're going to have two running backs on the field.

So that fifth receiver in the passing game might be a tight end. The first guy he mentioned was. Yeah, of course. There are different answers at different times. It might be a running back. And I said when they drafted Will Shipley. I don't want to say I called it, but I said, you're going to like the way he catches the ball out of the back view. I think the Eagles are going to use Will Shipley in the passing game.

Now, as you've said, you're for our audio listeners, you're making, I don't say a quizzical look here, a skeptical face right now. I'm just too dumb to understand it. I don't. Because I understand the skepticism. Running back, run ball, running back, no catch. The skepticism could be that when the Eagles drafted. did Kenny Gainwell. One of the talking points

is that he was a productive pass catcher at Memphis, and that him and Antonio Gibson were you know, they were these past catching back. Can I go answer the doorbell really quick? Do you mind? Sure. I'm happy to feel a buck. Let's see how quick I can do it. I can fill a buster.

Oh, okay. So Will Shipley, Will Shipley, who you got to think about him, overall, standout athlete. And I think that sometimes gets overlooked. Will Shipley was a five-star recruit to Clemson as a three-year starter at Clemson.

It was really productive, extraordinarily productive relative to like his workload in the passing game. It's something that they use. Going into the draft, one thing I was looking at with running backs is who are the best past catching backs in this draft. For those who are die-hardt, and I hope you're a die-hard, you might have seen by seven-round mock draft.

going into the draft. And the player that I had identified for them, I think it was in the fifth round in that one, was Will Shipley. I had a mock draft earlier in this offseason, and I also put Will Shipley in there. The reason is because I thought Will Shipley was a good match for where I saw or where I thought this offense was going to go. I thought that they wanted a pass catching back. I thought Will Shipley was one of the better past catch or was one of the best best catching backs in this draft. That's something that jumped out to me when I was studying the running backs. So this is a way of saying it does not surprise me. It does not surprise me that Will Shipley

lined up on the outside. That Will Shipley's been flexed to the slot. That Will Shipley's catching the ball in 21 personnel because I think that Will Shipley is a natural pass catcher. Now you heard Nick Siriani say last year about the Andrei Swift, he has running back or I'm sorry, he has receiver hands at running back. And I think you'll see that from Will Shipley this year. You have a smile on your face. We also saw DeAndre Swift get a bunch of passes the first day of training camp last year. And we're all expecting he's going to change the way that they used the running back in the passing game.

And it didn't happen. Okay. So while you went to your household chores, I provided, you know, 60 seconds worth of distance run. And, or distant run, I should say. and you come on. And the first thing you do is disagree with a point that I make when you weren't even listening to these 60 seconds that I was doing it. You only caught the tail end of it.

Just saying. I'm always going to be skeptical that they're going to make it a huge deal when we haven't seen it. And when... My point was that in this draft, one of the things I was looking for is who are the best past catching backs in this draft. Who are the guys who I thought had the best hands could help there? and that is why I really thought going into the draft that Will Shipley would be a good match for the Eagles and why I included him in my mock draft.

Okay. To Siriani's point about like there are different answers for this, depending on the situation, that's fine. But like the question is still who's going to be the fourth most targeted player in the offense, right? And I would say it's fair to say that through the spring, you know, Paris Campbell has been working with the ones. by far the most of anybody. And not just in the slot. There have been times when he has been on the outside and Devante Smith has been in the slot,

which I think is important because whoever it's going to be, they need them to be able to line up on the outside because a lot of the times the best mismatch that the offense is going to be able to create. I mean, like, Devante Smith's numbers in the slot are among the best in the league. Like it's one of the places where he wins the best. And so they need that to be someone who can do that.

And so if Paris Campbell can do that, all the better. I just want to ask you, you said the fourth option in the passing game. Are you expecting the third receiver to be more involved in the passing game than Saquan Barkley? Yes. Interesting. Okay. I would disagree with you on that. I think it may not be volume.

Well, I mean, like if you're discounting screens, then yes. I think that will be the answer. So you have you screens as an extension of the running game? From this perspective, yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Like I think that I think that there will be a receiver on the team who has more targets on non-screens than Seguan Barclay. Or at least there should be. Yeah. And my position is that when you have five skill guys on the field, that third receiver, that second tight end, that second running back is the fifth guy I want to get the ball to.

I mean, if I'm J. DeLon Hertz, I'm looking A.J. Devonte, Dallas, Seekwan, before I'm looking, Paris, Grant, will. John, if we're just using the first names. What's the smile? What did you get? This is very exciting. So I had the delivery. I actually didn't know what was being delivered, but went up to get the package before, you know, anything on tour could happen. And I see I got this nice long box here.

There's a thing on the tape that says caution. Home runs inside. Oh. Softball season starting up in a couple weeks. We had to get a couple of new. official wood bats. I got here. A little bamboo.

I never swung bamboo before. It's a little like bamboo bat. It's, oh, oh, this is, this is very sexy. Gotcha. Do you like a wood bat? I like a wood bat. Okay. So I, and baby.

All right. I'm curious to see how you swing with that. I, I, uh, here. You know, we got, we got a long and a shorty. Okay.

The CoA leak. Let's see what this other one looks like. Not bamboo, but, ooh, this is a sexy black. It's like an unboxing as my son- It is an unboxing, yeah. Not bad.

I'm, this bamboo, though. Woo. So when I was in high school, I'm fired up. I didn't get in that much, but, you know,

in BP, I would, I would swing with a wood bat sometimes because, you know, it has a smaller sweet spot. So in theory, if I get into the game with the metal bat or the aluminum bat rather, then there's the bigger sweet spots there. But I used to call my, you know, I was a big fan of literature back then, baseball literature. I had a baseball literature.

That was a little different. Yeah. With Dr. Jerniani. Shout out to Dr. Jerniani. And are you talking like Matt Christopher? No. I'm talking like Bernard Melamund. And natural, the book, you know, the book is somewhat better than this.

movie, Bo, right? Much different. Much different to art than the movie. Yeah. So, but no, so I, I wrote on my bat, like I chiseled it in there, Wonder Boy, because of the natural. Yeah. Now, I did not hit like Roy Hobbs.

I didn't turn off the lights and in the, with, with any of my hits. But I'll say this. When you get a barrel on the ball with a wood bat, that's a good feeling. No better feeling in the world. Some better feelings, but no better, but in baseball, no better feeling. What would you say is the best feeling in the world, Zach? The best feeling in the world? It's a nostril flare that, you know, intimated maybe something else is on your mind.

Go ahead. No, no, no, no, no. The satisfaction of like a good story, a good show. That's a great. That's the number one feeling in the world? That's not the number of, ah, the number one feeling. Hard days work. No, honestly, the number one feeling in the world for me is like when you hear your kid laugh,

when you make your kid laugh, that is awesome. That's pretty good. Yeah. Or I would say when I get home from work and my daughter comes running up to me, gives me a hug like that. That's probably the best feeling in the world. But, yeah, a hard day's work is, yeah, the feeling of accomplishment, submitting a story you worked your ass off on, that is, that's a great feeling.

Doing a show, you know, at the end of like our draft coverage, you feel good about that. So that's a good feeling as well. You know what I think the best feeling in the world is, Zach? Yep. Getting a good deal on your mortgage. That is a good feeling, for sure. Today's real estate market, Zach, is ultra competitive because there are prospective homebuyers out there who know

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First of all, premium written content for the members, for the diehard members at all PHL.H. H.LY.com. I am a sucker for the what I'm hearing articles. Charlie O'Connor has that on the flyers. I am all caught up all my flyers rumors. Jim Salisbury had a great piece on Reese Hoskins over the weekend. We're just getting quality content all day long on all pHly.com. And if you're a diehard member, you'll have access to that. We also have an events calendar for upcoming events, including our first annual golf tournament and our Phillies takeovers. The PHLY first annual liberal, the open is July 13th at Valley Brook Country Club in Blackwood, New Jersey. It's a scramble format. So sign up as a single will force them or sponsor a hole. Eight holes with a cart. I'm sorry, 18 holes with a cart. There's tournament gifts and tea prizes.

Taste the Philly dinner and post round ceremony at the pavilion. So make sure you're checking that out. Also, the Phillies, some of us are not, you know, I'm, I'm jealous of all the people who are going overseas to see the Phillies in London. that will be an amazing once-in-a-lifetime experience. Yeah, well, I didn't know if I could say she's going or not. I was going to split. Now the cat's out of the bag, I'm jealous that joy is going to London.

That's like a once-in-a-lif experience to see the Phillies in London. But you can go to Gaul. If you're in Philly, the next best thing is to go to Gaul and Co for the London series versus the match, June 8th and 9th. That's this weekend. Check out all p.l-l-y.com for more info. I mentioned the premium written content. You also get 20% off events. Great merchandise for all teams.

A free shirt when you become a member and members only Discord at the PHLY Lounge. So head over to all pHLY.com now and join the best sports fans in the city. Can I run you through the offensive line depth chart over the past two days? Oh, yes. This is this is bow music. We need to have like special offensive line bow music the way you did the, you know, the Stone Cold Newsman for me. Yeah.

I mean, you know I'm horned up with this bat in my head. And this is now we get to talk offensive line depth chart. This is really putting me over the edge. I don't know. What goes on to the both household? All right. We talked about Mackay Beckham yesterday. He was once again the left guard with no Landon Dickerson there, Jordan Mila

left tackle, Cam Jurgens at center, Tralestein, right guard, lane Johnson, right tackle, all of that to be expected. Once again, Matt Hennessy from our eyes, and I do think that this is notable, has only worked at right guard. So four practices in, that's the only place that we have seen. seen him as the second team right guard feels like that is where they are focusing on with him at the moment. Fred Johnson at right tackle. Brett Tooth remains the second team center. Darren Kinnard remains the second team left guard and that's the only place that I have seen

him line up is left guard. Then Anim Danqua at left tackle. With the threes, you have your boy Lakin Vacalehue at left tackle. This is my boy. Xharping, sharping working at left Guard since coming over, signing a couple days ago, Dylan McMahon at center, Jason Poe at Red Guard, and then Gottlieb, I get Jay at right tackle. Trevor Keegan also working in there at left guard with Sharping. Yeah, I think I call Vaca Lehi your boy because you asked Jordan my lot about him today. Yes. Yeah. If you wanted to expand on that, by all means, go ahead. Well, no, no, keep going on the offensive line. And then I can't get it. I finished. Oh, that's And if I can ask you, I know you don't really have a good look at how these guys look.

It's not like they're doing one-on-ones. It's not like they're blocking, right? But Mackay Beckton, from a movement perspective, does he look like he has the bend necessary to play that spot? I would be lying if I gave you an opinion on that. It has mostly been sort of just technical stuff that they're working on. But I will take Jordan Milata and Lane Johnson's word for it. Now, Myelot was a little bit less effusive in his praise of Beckton as a guard saying like he's never played the position before. He's still got a lot to learn, but he likes him as a guy.

I think the fact that he is playing there at all is pretty significant. Yeah, I was going to ask you. I listened back to yesterday's show. And I think we made an appropriate deal of it. And actually, there's a clip now on YouTube of just that discussion in case you missed it. But the one thing I wanted to ask is, is you know, in knowing Jeff, Stoughtland the way you do knowing Jeff Stoutland's history. You don't think that he would put Mackay Beckton with the first team left guard just

like, yeah, what the hell? Let's see him out there. You think it's like there's something serious there that he wants to see that this isn't. I'm so. Yeah. Because if he just want to see him at left guard, he would put him with like the third team or the second team left guard, right? Or the second team guard.

He'd bump someone else up. But the fact that he's putting him with the first team really lends me to think or leads me to think that this is this is a legit thing in Stoutland's eyes yeah listen i mean the eagles were if things had gone a little bit differently in the draft they would have drafted an offensive lineman in the first round right that was absolutely on the table um so we know that they were interested in upgrading that position the the second the draft ended they signed mckeye beckton who was the best offensive lineman available he was their answer for You know, we didn't get to do this in the first or second round, so this is what we have instead.

I think there is every possibility that they will go through the process with Tyler Steen and not, you know, cast him aside necessarily, but decide that Mackay Beckton is a better option for them in the here and now. Yeah, well said. So I will answer the Lakin thing. Then I had a question for you about the wide receivers before we wrap up as well to kind of stay on the offensive theme. Yeah, so I asked Jordan Milata. I don't typically like to do two-part questions, but I do it in press conferences

because you don't know if you're going to get time for it to circle back to you. So my two-part question was how comparable Lakin's story is to his. And then also the Academy that the NFL opened in Australia, the significance of that, which Jordan's a big part of.

He's like the official ambassador of the NFL to Australia. And he said that, first off, Lakin, it's similar in that, you know, they're big Australians, who are coming over here. But the difference is that Jordan had like experience, you know, I shouldn't say experience.

He trained for six months. He went to IMG and he actually, he like practiced this, right? Lakin's coming straight off his Mormon mission. So it's a little different there. There's probably more of a learning curve. Even though Jordan Milana had never played in a game before, like there were eyes on him as a player before. I think Lakin's much more of a project.

and just to remind everyone, Lakin is not taking up a roster spot for the Eagles. Every team gets an international roster exemption, and that's the spot he's on. So the Eagles actually can't be patient with him for that reason as well. Like he's going to be with the team throughout the season, unless they find someone else. Well, I actually don't know if you can go back and forth with international exemptions. I don't know the rule there. But he's going to be someone, I think it's safe to say. They're going to develop him kind of behind the scenes.

he won't take up on their practice god spots right um to the second part yeah jordan thinks this is this is this is huge to for identifying prospects um and i i did a story uh two years ago or three years ago now rather on uh daniel file la lei and i spoke to jordan my lot of fort i spoke to fat lele on and one thing jordan said is like there are people in australia maybe not you know six eight three hundred sixty pounds or you know six nine four hundred pounds like faulet but but there are you know guys in Australia who can play professional football. And they just need to be found and they need to be found at an earlier stage. And that's what the academy will do.

And Joya Milata said when he's, you know, when he's here, he's representing Australia. When he's there, he's representing the United States. Like, this is his home now. So he's kind of the byproduct of the United States when he's there. And football, he's like a representative of football. So that was interesting to hear. And perhaps that's something I write on all PHLY this summer. Now, to the question I had for you is Joseph and God is getting some snaps with the ones.

We've seen that. John Ross is kind of working his way up the depth chart a bit. Nick Siriani mentioned him as – Nick Seriani mentioned both of them as receivers who stood out. Now, you could say – Oh, Joseph and got a Joe in God. Yes. Maybe he goes by Joe in the facility. Although in the transcript, they put Joseph –

They put Joseph in brackets in case it was nice. But in case we didn't know that it was Joseph, right? In any event, I point this out. He mentioned a lot of guys, but it's not like he, you know, they have other death receivers who he did not bring up, right? He mentioned and got it. And got to mind. John Ross came to mind.

Both those guys are seeing work with the ones here. A, who do you think is more likely to make the roster? Or do, and B, do you think the Eagles would seek to upgrade over those guys? or do you think one of them will be on the team? I mean, I think the overwhelming odds are that neither of them will be on the team. Okay. Obviously how Anaya Smith and Johnny Wilson come along is important here. Anaya Smith just starting to get involved a little bit in team drills,

but has not looked, you know, particularly not your face off, but that's okay. It's early he was coming off an injury. Johnny Wilson has made a couple nice plays, I think. He had a drop today actually, but has otherwise looked okay, looked a little bit, a little bit shifty for his height. I find myself being a little bit of a sucker for John Ross. Maybe part of it is that press conference he gave. You know, the speed is fun to watch. But obviously there's a reason that he was out of the league for a while.

It's unlikely that he's going to make the team, but I could see that I would like to see him in training camp. I think it'll be fun to see if what he's done so far can carry over a little bit. Ingada has never really done it for me personally. The body type, sure. And we talked about in a perfect world, it would have been Devante Parker as a number three receiver because of what he could allow everybody else to do. Joseph Engada is the one who brings that body type to the table. But I don't necessarily see it.

I haven't seen much dynamism from him. him. The other down roster guys, you know, Griffin Hebert's making some plays today as a tri-out player. I think that Austin Watkins has a little bit of shiftingness that has sort of caught my eye a little bit. But I think that the Eagles are very much aware that they could use somebody else here potentially. So two things there. First off, I see Cousin Grace says in the chat, this John Ross have a shot as a gunner on special teams. I think their gunners will probably be more of their cornerback depth.

then, you know, I think like Cooper DeGine could be a gunner for them or something like that if he's not returning or even Quinyan if he's not starting. But who knows? We'll see. I don't know if John Ross will be used in that role. I don't know how he is this a tackler. He's on the slider side, right? But we'll pay attention to there. My question is you framed it well if they're coming down to that wide receiver spot and how he says you're Nick in this case.

And Howie says, Nick, I'm deciding between these two, do you want speed or do you want size? What do you prefer, speed or size, Bill? Me personally, I prefer the better player. You know, I'll figure out a way to use them. But I'm saying they've, you know, with that type, like they're, you've graded the amounts. Let's say Johnny Wilson's on it. And Paris Campbell's on it? Let's say Ania Smith, yeah, Ania Smith goes on an IR, just out in Britain Covey's in the Ania Smith.

and they're keeping one more wide receiver, right? So for that group, I would want some size. You don't want size. Okay. So you want, you want Wilson and Angada on it. Okay. But I wouldn't is the answer. So you want none of the above.

You don't want door number three. Yes. Or no, you want door number three. You want door number three. I'm sorry. I mean, give me the extra offensive linemen in that case. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. last thing we should talk about is the Brandon Graham Press Conference today, Zach. Yeah, he had an interesting... He had an interesting aside. And, you know, Brandon Graham, when he starts talking, he doesn't always know what he's going to say, right? And so we do not want to make too much of this,

but he said just sort of in passing, and then we followed up on it, that he's talking about the defensive tackles. And he's like, you know, I think we trust they've got a good position coach. You know, the coaches weren't always put in the right positions last year. And like they weren't always doing the right stuff. What did you make of that? Yeah. I found it to be interesting for sure.

What did I make of it? Clearly they had problems on their coaching staff last year, right? I mean, they were inexperienced. I don't know if he was referring to. Now, it seems like he was referring to Tracy Rocker just because he was talking about Clinton Hurd. But Tracy Rocker was with the team for three years. Right. was there during the Super Bowl year.

I kind of, I would like to think it was probably more, I mean, certainly, you know, Matt Patricia in there. He said, especially in the last game? Especially the last game. That's what he said. He said, especially in the last game, they had some trouble. So the Bucks game, you're referring to. Yeah.

I assume that he was referring to. That's, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, look, we talked about it going into training camp, how inexperienced they were at all three levels. Or I'm probably not at all three. Well, Tracy Rocker had some experience, but they had no like coordinator, you know,

no former coordinators. They had their linebackers coach, their defense backs coach. It was their first time coaching that position, or, you know, coach being a top position coach at the NFL level. And perhaps that showed, there's a lot of an experience on the staff across the board last year.

And so that might be what it was. Certainly this state, you know, he said, and it was interesting, he said, Howie took care of it this off season, right? Not like Nick took care of it, Howie took care of it this off season, which is consistent with kind of what we said all along, like the involvement Howie has in bringing coaches together when we did the, the mock press conference, if you will, you know, and I was talking about putting the staff together.

And I think you, you know, I was Nick, or I'm sorry, not mock press conference, mock job interview or, you know, keep your job. And I think as Lori, you're like, you're not hiring the coaches, how he is, right? You said something like that. And maybe there's something to that as well. There you go. And then I'll also say, I ask Brandon Graham just because, like, I think he's a credible voice when it comes to NFLPA matters because he's been an NFLPA rep. And he is not in favor of the modified offseason or the modified offseason schedule.

He's actually, he's of the opinion that these guys want their summers, right? He said just shorten the period in April in May, right? Come back like a week earlier in July. Right. Yeah, don't have it. So it's like this whole ramp up, you know, you report early July. I think there is definitely a disconnect between the PA members who have children and those. Exactly.

Yeah, because Dallas got her. His point was like, you come here. you're getting great shape and then you're gone for six weeks. Which is a fair point. Yeah. So now what I don't understand is why can't you just have like, you know, why can't it just be like spring training where you just report the normal, you know, report like a week earlier than you typically do now. Like take what Brandon said, but just not have the spring. If they had, if they reported instead of six weeks before the season started, if they just reported seven weeks before the season started, they had two weeks.

of a ramp up. And then they had five weeks of training camp slash preseason. That would strike me as sufficient as opposed to, you know, these guys are in such good shape. It's, it's not like the days I think where you need to have them in here in the spring getting in shape. So I would actually say there's there's probably something in between. But I am curious. I think you're right. There is a disconnect between, between like younger guys maybe who are, who are like, why do I have to be in my city for six weeks, eight weeks, nine weeks during the spring and then go home and then come back. I would rather just do it in one shot. No other sport does that. And then people who are like, wait, I want to have a summer.

I want to be with my kids. Like, I want July 4th weekend at home and I, you know, that kind of thing. I think Brandon Graham said July 4th is the last. I did want to hump it. I did want to hump. I did want to jump in at one point when he said, you know, they want to go to 18 games. You could just start it a week earlier. I said, no, no, no, Brandon, Labor Day, the President's Day.

You got to know this stuff. By the way, Brandon Graham and me, our Kidrant Spirits here, July 4th made this great holiday, right? I know it's your anniversary, but July 4th being this great last hurrah with the family, right? Yeah, Labor Day to Memorial Day. Oh, I'm sorry, not Memorial Day. That would be wonderful. Labor Day to President's Day would be the plan that Bradenegraib's saying. They start now the weekend after Labor Day.

So what a week earlier would bring them to Labor Day? So Labor Day to President's Day would still work with the Branden Graham plan. He would still get July 4th with his family. I would, you know, Brandon Graham says the only time he's out of the house is taking the baby girl to gymnastics, taking, you know, the son to wherever he has to go. And I know that, I know that feeling quite well, right? So, yeah, Brandon Graham and I are, you know, we have kids the same age. I think we're overlapping here in our opinion of the NFL schedule. I think that's fair. And by the way, Brandon Graham did say he did not leave the door open.

He said this, this is his last year. He's trying to soak it all up. That is how he's approaching it. This is, this is the end, end of the road. Yeah. He also gave a shout out the P.HLY contributor, Les Bowen. Someone said, aren't you retired yet? He said, he feels like less here. He's like just still hanging around. So shout out the less. There we go. All right, Zach, that'll do it

for this episode of the PHA Eagles podcast. We are back tomorrow afternoon. There are a few things up in the air, unfortunately, so we don't have a specific time just yet. Maybe 3rd, maybe 4.30, maybe 5 at the latest. But we will be watching tomorrow's practice.

and reporting to you what we see and then back at the normal noon time on Friday with Zach and Hansom Rich. So we look forward to all of that as the content train rolls on, Zach. How you doing? How you feeling? How's it going? I will say I have a spreadsheet on my computer of show ideas for when Bo is gone. and they're not all wrong back. Do you want to take on the Ospreys? No. I was still doing the Ospreys?

The answer is no. I definitely don't want to take on the Ospreys. The Ospreys usually leave me embarrassed and me singing. It is a, and it's a testament to your brilliance. But I need to, you're gone for two weeks. Okay, both of us can't be gone at the same time. Actually, I would be. and well, the show

when this show literally needs to go on. So we've got to figure that out. You know, actually, I was talking to someone down there in the media house who was bringing up like, man, I'm curious what you're going to do for those six weeks. And I was like, just wait, I got some ideas. So look, we have legit stuff to talk about tomorrow. If you want to listen to the customers, Zach, there's a lot of customers requesting nudity. Yeah, no, that is a no go for me, right?

Okay. what were we going to say? No, so we have legit, you know, practice to talk about tomorrow. We'll have a Tick-Tac or Tick-Zac Bo with Rich on Friday. We'll probably wrap up some of this stuff next week that we saw this week. But I think we have some good ideas for these six weeks.

So make sure you continue tuning in daily. And I'll say publicly here now that we said it, Julia, I hope you have a great trip. we're going to miss you. But I'm eager to hear how that experience is overseas. And I'm expecting to hit a lot of overs in these baseball games because there's a lot of home runs in London. Yeah, but that's priced into the overs. I understand, but even still, yeah.

All right. Well, Zach, Zach's saying, put all your money on the overs in London. And if not, he will cover you. It's not at all what I'm saying. That's not. But go to bet parks to make those bets for sure. All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.L.Y. Eagles podcast.

for Zach and Julia. I'm Bowie. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. We'll talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you.