PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | Philadelphia Eagles trade Haason Reddick to New York Jets: What it means from all angles

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

The expected Haason Reddick departure was made official late Friday when Howie Roseman traded his star edge rusher to the New York Jets. Did the Eagles get enough in return for a player who has been as productive as Reddick has? Why accept draft picks so far into the future? Does this mean edge rusher is now a priority for the Eagles in the draft? Why did Reddick need to be moved at all? Zach Berman and Bo Wulf are back together in studio to discuss the deal from all perspectives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

on a Monday morning. In studio, Zach, how you doing? Doing great. Excited to be back. Happy to see you again. Happy to see Joy again. And eager to talk about what's ahead. It's April 1st, which means April Fool's Day, which means it.

Hassan Reddick wasn't trading. It's my father-in-law's birthday. Happy birthday to him. But it's draft month. That's what he wants you to think. Yeah. It's draft month. And so I'm excited for the shows and the weeks ahead here because this is a buzzy time.

if you will. Buzz, buzz. Okay. Yeah. A buzzy time. Little floating bee, Zach Berman.

Great job holding down the fort last week with Handsome Rich. Great job by Handsome Rich and everybody involved. We will get to draft chatter eventually. But today, you know,

no more Tom Foolery, no more shenanigans. We got a lot to talk about, Zach, because on Friday, late afternoon, the Eagles pull a classic news dump. Yes.

With the Hassan Reddick trade being announced, Hassan Reddick going to the New York Jets in exchange for a 2026 draft pick that starts as a third round pick and could become a second round pick if he plays over 65% of the snap? 67.5%. Oh, okay. And or has over 10 sacks. Is that right?

No, or and. Oh, it has to be both. Has to be both. Kind of wild. You don't often see an and in a trade calculation like that. We will get to the compensation level. We will get to what it means for the Eagles roster. Does it change their draft plans?

I'm curious who you think the Eagles are betting on most in letting Hassan Reddick go. But I want to start with, it seemed like this was inevitable. Yes. And it certainly turned out to be, you know, there was talk about maybe the Eagles could wait a little bit because the veteran trade market right now is not so hot, right? The returns are not what you might expect. Certainly the return for a player in Hassan Redick, who is only the second player in the Eagles franchise over the past 20 years

to have back-to-back 10-sac seasons, a guy who has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the league over the past two, three, four years, and is only turning 30 years old, not a huge return. Why do you think it was that this was inevitable? Why is it that this was a marriage that was headed for a divorce? Yeah, that's something that I think Eagles fans are trying to unpack. It was pretty clear going back to last training camp.

Hassan Reddick wasn't enthralled by his deal. He played on it last year. He wanted a new deal. It wasn't going to be a conducive situation for him to return on that current contract. So what the Eagles could have done, there were two options there then, trade him or resign him. It wasn't going to be playing on this deal. I think the comp for resigning him from where I sit is probably the Neil Hunter contract. Two years, 49.5 million, right?

I mean, they're both really productive edge rushers around the same age. So I don't think the Eagles were ready to pay Hassan Redick, that type of money. Then when they signed Bryce Huff, it really signaled it was going to be Redick or sweat or perhaps both. traded. Then when they restructured sweat steel to bring him back, sweat being jow sweat, of course, then it was clear that Reddick would be moved. So the

inevitability of it made it seem like it was just a matter of to whom and for how much. But yeah, there is an alternative here. The alternative would have been paying Reddick. It just seemed the Eagles didn't value Reddick at a price point at this point in his career that Reddick wanted.

There was some reporting about the Eagles being unhappy with the way that Sweat Reddick were, you know, playing the run in the second half of the season. Hassan Reddick's numbers did not drop off quite as dramatically as Josh Schwetz did over the second half of the season, but, you know, he was certainly part of a unit that was not productive in the second half of the season. Do you think that this is just contract? Do you think there are some personality dynamics involved here? Like, do you think Hassan Reddick said, I'm not coming back under any circumstances? What do you make of just like why this was definitely happening?

Yeah, well, I don't think Reddick was coming back under his current deal, right? So it's, well, it's always everything, right? It's never just one thing. But I think more than anything, this is contract motivated. I don't necessarily think it's personality or play motivated. Now, if their frustration was the run defense, then bringing him Bryce Hoff's not going to. Well, yeah. I mean, that's not like, oh, we solved it with Bryce off, right?

The reality is this. I think that Hassan Redick, they would have had to make a major commitment. Look, the top 10 nedge rushers in the. NFL all make over $20 million. Like I said, the Neil Hunter contract showed what the market would be for someone who's approaching 30 who has this type of production. When you give someone the chance to seek a trade, you're essentially like preparing for life without that person.

And so, yeah, the inevitability of it was, I think more than anything else, this was contract motivated. Now I'm curious to see what the Jets do with that contract, but this has been going on for nearly two months, right? This was before the combine when this came out. So a month and a half to two months and Eagles at the end of the season probably knew there was going to have, there was a line in the sand at edge rush. I mean, speaking to Hassan Redick at the end of the season, it certainly seemed like he was expecting something to happen with the contract. Right. So, So, yeah, I have to think the contract was the motivating factor here. And I would imagine, you know, without having gotten like a truth serum conversation with

Hassan Reddick that he was expecting usually the way things go is if I'm coming back and you're going to make me play on this deal, there's sort of an implicit agreement that like, we're going to make you whole after the season's over, right? and maybe the Eagles offered what they thought was fair value, and Redick didn't think that was fair value, and that was the breaking point. But, I mean, it is not generally speaking, like Howie Roseman's roster-building worldview

that we're going to get rid of our best pass rusher for a return that is, you know, underwhelming. Well, so I actually disagree as far as like the understanding that we'll make you whole. I think it was more kind of the understanding, all right, you play on this deal in year two, and then year three will either pay you or move you, right? I think that's more the understanding than anything else is I don't think it was ever play on this deal and then we'll give you $25 million a year next year, right?

And so it is uncustomary for them to, you know, trade one of the elite edge rushers in the league. That's what, like, you know, I said this on Anthony's show today. Make sure you're all watching the Anthony Gargana show every day, 9 to 11 here on PHO. It's fun to be here now that the show is going. There's a different, different vibe in the office, I feel. But, and you know how this works is that oftentimes in this league, when a player's on the way out, you hear rationalizations or, well, really, he was bolstered by this or this was, you know, this was this decline. was like there's there's no rationalizing from my perspective Hassan Reddick as a player he's one of the elite players or he's in he's one of the elite

edge rushers that's a premium skill uh the numbers over the past one of the best five people in the league in doing the most important thing on defense like the the numbers bear this out the tape bears this out so yeah there's there's there's no spin they're not a better football team today than they were three days ago or or five days ago rather and you speak of the rationalizations you can spin it as like, well, would you rather have Asan Redick or would you rather have Bryce Huff and an extra $7 million and an extra draft pick? But like, I don't know. Yeah. That's still a bad. That's still a roll of the dice. Yeah. So it's, but it's, it's similar to, I mean, it's not apples for apples, but it's, it's similar to Kansas City. Like,

Legerius Sneed's a great player, but they weren't going to pay Legerius Need that contract, right? I don't think the Eagles were prepared to pay Hassan Redick, the contract that he wants. And I think that's what it comes down to. There's, to me, you, you can't say, well, he's a one-trick guy. Like, you can't say, uh, he's turning 30. No, he's really good at getting to the quarterback. There was a noticeable difference. I talked about the effect that AJ Brown had on the offense when they added him.

There was that effect for the defense when they added Hassan Reddick, right? He made the other players around him better. No doubt. Like, so there's, there's no football rationalization here. To me, it's the overall outlook of how you build a roster and the money you're going to allocate. And I think the Eagles would rather spend $17 million on Bryce Huff and have that cash to allocate elsewhere, the future cap space to allocate elsewhere. The pick is part of that. We'll get to that.

Then paying $25 million a year for Hassan Redick. I actually don't read it as this is what they would rather do. I read it as this is what they had to do. Like, I think if they thought that Hassan Redick could come back and that was a marriage that they could save, I think they would have wanted to. For whatever reason, I think they knew going into the off-season that we're not bringing him back. And so what's the next best thing we can do? Well, we can get some compensation. We can sign a guy like Bryce off who can replace him.

I don't think that it was like, which one would we rather have? This is like a Howie Galaxy Brain thing where he's able to finesse it all. and the team comes out better on the other side. I think this is like this was the best medicine they could take. Well, yeah, maybe so. I just, they haven't. So they paid Trent Cole, top of, you know, near top of the league money. But if you look at how they've kind of structured edge rushing contracts,

they would rather pay one guy in like today's money, $17 million and another guy $15 million or whatever it may be. They'd rather pay two guys. then pay one guy 25 to 30 million. Like that's kind of, they haven't been top of the league and edge rushing spending. Well, yeah, but when they have had an opportunity to do that,

like, you know, if they hadn't had that type of player. Right. Yeah, I mean, my point being that I don't think they were, they were prepared to pay Hassan Reddick, the contract that Hassan Reddick wanted. Sure. And I said that like, like if they had Miles Garrett, they wouldn't be like, well, we'd rather have, you know,

two okay guys. Sure, sure. Yeah, but I kind of think that's that's the line of thinking here that Hassan Redick was was in I'm curious to see what happens with the Jets. Like I I keep seeing this this stuff from the Jets side where where well if he leaves in free agency, you're going to get a comp pick for him. I don't see Hassan Redick playing under this deal. Like I think if you trade for for for. I would think so. But that hasn't been reported.

Yeah. Well, it was reported that they're working on it on a. new deal, but there hasn't been a deal out. So I'm curious what that number comes in at, but I don't think this was a situation where the, where the Eagles were, like, hoping to mess. I think there was a contract that Hassan Redick wanted, and they weren't going to pay that number. I think it was, in my mind, it's like, okay, let's begin our offseason planning. We're not going to get Hassan Redick back. Yeah. What can we, what can we get out of this? And maybe part of that is like, well, can we like get Josh sweat on a better?

deal and like let's let's let's let's see it out there that we're willing to trade either one of these guys and maybe that'll work in our favor and we can get sweat on a better deal because he had this terrible second half of the season he sort of wore down a little bit which happened and and so that worked out like i give howie roseman credit if it is the fact that like they knew he was gone they they got enough out of it now about the compensation Zach you know we talked about how underwhelmed we were by the return for brian burns compared to what you know the rams supposedly offered for him a season and half ago. And Ligerius Sneed's only getting a third round pick.

What do you make of the return for Hassan Reddick? Is that enough? Well, is it enough? I said going into this, I thought a second round pick is what you shoot for, right? Actually, I was probably wrong about this when we were on Shields Pod at the Super Bowl. I said, I thought they can get more for sweat than for Redick. I thought Redick was a second round pick. When you see what some of the other deals were for top veteran play,

players, maybe a second round pick would have been ambitious. I consider this a third round pick, right? If you just look last year, Jermaine Johnson, their top edge rusher, played 65.8% of the snaps. Quinn Williams, they're all pro defensive tackle, different position, but he plays 68.5% of the snaps. Bryce Huff. Such a specific number, yeah.

Like these guys, the jets rotate. The jets are a team that rotates along the line. And you're so they would really need to kind of break course for Hassan Reddick to play 75, 80% of the snaps. It's not the way they typically use that spot under Robert Sala. And of course, they also know that the future picks kind of on the on the on the on the on the line here. So so actually that's why I think that making it a 2026 is interesting here because it means that it's like this is such a make or break year for the jets. Yeah. And if the Redick doesn't get a new deal like he's going to want to be on the field as much as

Like both of them are going to be incentivized for him to try to chase those numbers. But yeah. So yeah, it's not the ideal comp. I got to think. And I will give Hallie Roseman credit on this. Like he's, this is this is not like when the Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppel. And, you know, they were painted into a corner and they had to make a deal. Like they've, they've had two months here to scan the market.

One would think that if there was a better deal out there, they would have gotten that that deal. Like they had, this was a very public thing. And this was on Redick was out there. And this was, April 1st was the day that they pushed the roster bonus forward to. So it seems like that actually turned out to be something of a deadline. Well, they're still paying that roster bonus. Oh, they are. That's right.

Yeah. But certainly from the league perspective, yeah. So. Which is, I'm surprised by that. Like, you know, I think Harry Roseman would probably tell you that like they're very good at waiting to get the value that they want. Like this, this was the value that you wanted. You couldn't, I mean, you couldn't finesse those. like the conditions for the pick a little bit more?

Like you couldn't have made it 60% in 10 sacks? Yeah, so that's the thing too. And I wrote this on all-P-H-L-Y.com. Like, what's the alternative other than paying him? The alternative would have been holding him until after the draft because there's two things that happen after the draft. First off, maybe the team that wanted an edge rusher in the first round. Yeah.

It doesn't go their way. Maybe a team traded back. and they have more draft inventory. Or, and you've really hit this on the head in the past, and I think this is very accurate for the way the league thinks, that teams are, they hold on to their picks that they have now, right? Especially this time of year, like that pick has a name attached to it. They're saying, all right, are you giving up four years to control of player X?

And that's why, by the way, the Eagles have historically valued future picks more than other teams have. because, you know, and they're the beneficiaries of it this year. They have a second round pick that they got in a trade in 2022. So they're willing to push a pick down the line. After the draft, a team saying, all right, this is what our roster looks like. We really need edge rushing help. Like, that's the alternative here. Yeah, I feel like if you're willing to take a 2026 pick in return here,

why not wait until after the draft and see who needs a guy? Yeah. Now you could also say it could work the other way. Like the Jets could take Dallas Turner in the first round and they don't need that edge rusher anymore and now the market narrative even more. I tend to think it actually works the other way that teams miss out on guys that they might be targeting

or they look at their post street. Going into the draft, everything's kind of like theoretical for the team. After the draft, you say, all right, this is what the depth chart is. This is where we need to address it. So the alternative would have been waiting. Yeah, I don't mind that the 2026 part of it. It's not ideal. I just would have liked a better pathway

to a second round pick there. I think if you're pushing it down the line, then what you're hoping for is like, all right, this has a better chance of becoming that second. You can justify it by saying we wanted a second at the start of this. It wasn't there in 2024.

It's going to be hard to get in 2025. 2026, teams are more willing to give away. That's that second round pick. So I guess my criticism of the comment, is a better pathway to the second. Yeah, I do find the timing odd. I find it odd that like if you were going to try to tell me that this is what, this is the return, this was their price and somebody finally met their price.

Like I find it hard to believe that this was the price that they were the line in the sand. Now, I would say that if there's any team in the league who I would rather have their 2026 pick and their 2025 pick, it's probably the Jets. Sure. Like that is a team that is all in this year. and if Aaron Rogers plays 10 games, great, but he's not going to play in two years. Like, that team's going to be awful in 2025, right?

And, like, that's good. And I think this is going to, I actually think that he's going to get the conditions. Interesting. I think this is going to be like one of the first five picks in the second round, and two years from now everybody's going to like, look at this amazing thing that Howie Roseman did. And, you know, he got us the 38th pick for Hassan Reddick,

and we got Bryce off, who's almost as good. And it'll be like, you know, how he does it again. And I just, I don't think it's enough for Redick because, like, I disagree there. No, no, no. I mean, if they get that, that's fine. But I don't think that the odds of that is enough of a return for Redick. I think they could have been a little bit more patient. And I also think to Howie Roseman's credit, and this is also like, this is a Jeffrey

Lurie thing. Not every GM can afford to be this patient, right? This is the, this is the benefit of the job security that Howie Roseman has is that he can be willing to accept a pick two years down the line and it's not discounted as much as it might be in other places because they don't they don't need to prove that they have to keep their job yeah we've had this conversation in the in the past and it's like a chicken or an egg thing like is this does he have the job security so he can make the trade or does he have the job security because he makes this type of trade right like because geoffrey lorry very much looks at it like where are the

inefficiencies in the marketplace and One thing, and I know this is a longstanding organizational belief, going back to Joe Banner, that the way future picks are valued is inconsistent with the way they value those picks. And to the point you made about the jet season, like the Eagles very much, like they have internal models that they use to, now it's not always the case, but to project out how teams are going to be. And you can't project out. There's so much that's good. You don't know what the 2025 jets are going to look like, right? But they have an idea what the 2024 jets are going to look like, right?

So they could be looking at it and saying we would much rather gamble on a 2026 pick than a 2025 pick for the very reasons that you mentioned, that their models bear this out, that that pick is most likely going to be at the end of, say, the bottom third of the second round or the third round based on what their models say the jets are going to be, that there's more upside in 2026. There you go. All right. Well, if you are hoping to make some bets like Harry Roseman is making bets,

we are brought to you by the Bet Parks app. Welcome aboard, Bet Parks. I was looking at the app just before the show. I am very excited for these women's college basketball games tonight. Caitlin Clark going up against LSU looked like Iowa was a three and a half point, or a one and a half point favorite. And I was surprised to say Yukon favored over you. USC and Juju Watkins.

So that's a fun one that you can put some hooch on if you're buckling up for that doubleheader tonight. Get in the zone with the Bet Parks Sports app. Win big with all day action and win your first $10 bet and earn $125 in sports bonus bets. You play for fun. You love to win. You bet. Download the app and play along with us. At Bet Parks must be 21 or older.

Please gamble responsive. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800 gambler. I was at the Phillies game yesterday and, you know, my son wanted a soda. Didn't get him a soda yesterday, but I was thinking like, all right, is there a healthy alternative here? And I wish olipop was available because olipop is the world's first functional soda with a classic soda taste and the benefits of plant-based fiber, prebiotics, and other botanical ingredients that support gut health. Alipop is a new kind of soda with only two to five grams of sugar and nine grams of fiber per can. It's available online and available in almost 30,000 retailers nationwide, including their most recent launch at all Wawa stores.

Alipop's debut in Wawa couldn't be more of a match made in heaven. A delicious, healthy drink meets a convenience store, both adored by a cult following. And they have two flavors debuting in Wawa, which are classic root beer and strawberry vanilla. Those are the two most popular flavors. Almost every American has some sort of relationship with soda from their childhood. Some people grew up drinking it all the time and then quit, and some people are still addicted to it and then trying to quit. But that's where you should turn to olive pop because 90% of Americans consume more than the USDA's daily recommended added sugar intake.

Sweetened beverages are the leading source of added sugars in the American diet, and that's why AliPop is so valuable, is that there's much lower sugar than conventional sodas with only 2 to 5 grams of sugar from natural sources. Use the code P-H-L-Y-20 for 20% off your next Alipop order. The discount only applies to one-time orders, not to subscription orders. Alipop is sold online, drinkolipop.com, plus it's also available at Amazon. And it's available in almost 30,000 retailers nationwide, including Wawa, Target, Sprouts, Wagman's, ShopRite, and GoPuff. All right, Zach.

So with Hassan Reda-Gone, the Eagles have Josh Sweat and Fritz Huff, Nolan Smith, Brandon Graham, maybe Zach Bonn in the mix after the Andrew Van Ginkle comparisons that were hoisted upon him in making this deal and getting rid of Hassan Redd, who do you think that Howard Roseman is betting on the most

on this Eagles defense? Yeah, good question, because when you asked me that out there, I was thinking about it, and I would say the obvious answer is Bryce Huff. And the obvious answer is Bryce Huff because they paid him $17 million a year. He's the highest paid edge rusher on the team, right?

So literally the investment's the highest other than draft resources, which they spent on Nolan Smith. The age profile, what they project is kind of the curve there. I think, and this is in an ideal world, he's what Hassan Reddick was, an up-and-coming pass rusher when they signed him, who's better in his contract with the Philly than with the Eagles, than he was before that.

So I think the literal thing they're counting on is Bryce Huff, who had 10 sacks last year as a 40% player, being a 15-sac guy, it's 60%, right? And then we can talk about Nolan Smith, first-round pick last year, who was not nearly as productive, and we'll get to that conversation. But the player that I just want to highlight here is Josh Sweat.

And the reason I say that is because I think there's almost, Josh Swett had a bad end to the season. And it's almost viewed almost like James Bradbury now, right? Like, can you count on this guy? I view the context much differently. Josh Sweat, who took a pay cut to stay, right? We talked about that. He's trying to maximize his value going into the free agent market next year.

From the beginning of the 2022 season to the by week of 2023, and you can say those are arbitrary numbers, but that's a 25-game sample size there. It would have been 26. He missed a game. 25-game sample size there. Josh Sweat was top 10 in the league in Sacks. He was tied with Brian Burns for 10th in the league. He was number eight in the league and quarterback hits during that time.

Josh Sweat was on a trajectory. His numbers were improving every year. He was outplaying the contract that they signed him on. We've spoken to people in that locker room. Lane Johnson's been very public about this. Chris Long has been very public about this. That Josh Sweat has tools that are rare at that position. And he went silent production-wise during the back half of the schedule.

If they get the Josh Sweat that they had for that year and a half, then you have a number one or one A, like maybe a 1B, but you have a pro bowl edge rusher. All right. Josh Swett wasn't that in November and December last year. If he can be what he was for that year and a half before then, then I think the Eagles pass rush will be what they needed to be. I think the most important context that you said there is that he took a pay cut.

Mm-hmm. Right? Like if the Eagles expected him, If Josh Sweat expected him self to be one of the top 10 passersers in the league, he would not have taken a pay cut. Good point. Good point. I just think that Josh Sweat...

I mean, that does not happen very often. No, I think Josh Sweat realizes that he needs to maximize his value this year to get the deal that he wants next year. Yeah. And I think that's the calculation. So the reason I ask you this question is because as I was thinking about it, the way that I view it is that the person that Howard Roseman is really betting on here in accepting,

because I don't think that you can expect Josh Swett to be a top 10 edge rusher next year. I just, I don't think that's what he's being paid. I don't think that's like the deal he took. And even Bryce Huff is a bit is definitely a projection. Nolan Smith, what you can get from him, I view as sort of gravy. I think they need to rotate a little bit more. That's obviously part of the reason that Josh Schwett's production fell off. But I think that what they're really betting on here is the Jalen Carter ascension.

Interesting. So the interior rush. And if Jalen Carter can be one of the three best pass rushing defensive tackles in the league, then all of a sudden everything becomes easier for the guys on the outside. I mean, you think about the 2017 Eagles, right? You had Fletcher Cox dominating inside, and he didn't have, you know, a dominant edge rusher. You had the rotating guys, and any one of them can get to the quarterback at any point. I think if Jalen Carter is who they think he can be,

then they're fine on the edge. And we'll get to like the draft expectations for edge rusher. Do they need to draft an edge rusher? To me, this is like, if Jalen Carter is the guy, is the dude on that defense, then we're fine. We don't need Hassan Reddick. Yeah, I disagree with you there.

Because I look at those, I look at the interior rush and the edge rushing as kind of different arguments. They do need Janelle and Carter to make that ascension. But, I mean, the Vic Fangio defense that's kind of pointed to as like those. So let's take the 49ers defense when he was there, right? You had Justin Smith wrecking havoc on the inside, right? But you also had Alton Smith, like being a difference maker on the edge.

And I think that's, you need those two things in conjunction. The Jalen Carter thing, I agree with you there. I don't need edge rushers. No, but I'm saying like you need. for this defense to be what it's going to be, you need a top 10, top 15 edge rusher, right? And that 2017 defense, they did not have that.

I mean, Brandon Graham was good. Vinny Curry was solid. Chris Long was productive, right? Derek Barnett was productive. But they didn't have that guy who you say, all right, this guy's top 15 in the league. And the Eagles need, look, Bryce Huff's being paid to be a top 20 edge rusher.

Bryce Huff needs, as I said, he was a 10-s-Sat guy last year, 40% of this snout. apps. They need Bryce Huff to be 13 to 15 sacks this year, right? And this, by the way, goes, like, I keep pointing this out. I'm a big, like, sacks aren't overrated guy. You know, some defensive ends will disagree, and they're far more educated at this than I am. But from 2014, when Connor Barwin had, what, 14 and a half sacks to 22, when Hassan Reddick had and Joshua and

Brendan Graham like they all feasted the Eagles did not have a single edge rusher reached double digit sacks which this is not a position

where they've had that high level production in terms of sacks Hassan Reddy gave you that's why they weren't paying a guy yeah they didn't have a guy true

Hassan Reddick can be that or Hassan Reddick was that type of player he changed the defense So they need, they really need Bryce Huff and or Josh Swett and or Nolan Smith to be that type of player. Nolan Smith is to Wildcard here. But that's what I'm saying is that if Jalen Carter is as good as they think he can beat, it becomes easier for those guys.

Their job becomes easier. And then like if Bryce Huff is not getting the attention, like the double team attention of opposing offenses, then yeah, he can get to 13, 15 sacks. But if he is all of a sudden the focal point and Jalen Carter is just. kind of a guy, then it's going to be hard for, I think, those guys to make headway. So you're saying the key here is Jalen Carter being... I think so. Okay. Okay.

Look, I'm not going to disagree. I mean, they need Jalen Carter to take that jump, but I still think they need either Bryce Huff or Josh Sweat to be a top 15 edge rusher in the league. Yeah, I mean, I think they would like that. And I think part of what makes that path easier is if Jalen Carter is a top three guy. What's your read on Nolan Smith? You know, I don't have super high expectations for Nolan Smith, but, you know, a guy plays one year in the league that is nowhere near close to,

like, writing the story of his career. I think that Nolan Smith's value to them in this Vic Fangio defense is his versatility. Like, I don't think that, I don't think that Nolan Smith is going to turn into Hassan Reddick, whereas he's, like, he's undersized, but he's one of the best past rushers in the league. I think Nolan Smith is going to be, you know, the guy who can drop for you a little. bit and, you know, brings a little bit of pass rush juice. But this goes back to like the conversation we had in the draft last year. Like, Nolan Smith was not a productive pass rusher in college. He was playing for four years. Like, he's got these amazing physical tools and they never

manifested into production. I am not betting on that. He's going to turn into like a 14-sack guy. Yeah. Well, so don't roll your eyes when I said. I think he can be a good football player who is not an elite edge rusher. So don't roll your eyes when you, when I say this. Okay. Because I agree, and I've made that point. He was not a prolific sack producer in college. I think what they would kind of push back on is that he was a productive pass rusher based on certain advanced metrics, including, you know, quarterback hits, pressure rate, things of that nature.

Now, that's where I say, sacks matter. And I've used this point. I'll use it when we have an edge rusher conversation. when we do an edge rusher show, like Elvis Dumerville was a really productive college pass rusher. He didn't have certain measurements. He fell in the, he was a really productive NFL pass rusher.

I think Sacks translate. For full disclosure, that's why I liked the Derek Barnett pick in 2014 because I thought Sacks Translate. Now, Barnett wasn't the double-digit sack guy for the Eagles, but he was a productive edge rusher for a period of time there. I think that Nolan Smith, yeah, it did concern me this year

that he wasn't more productive but he couldn't get on the field more because in training camp last year he looked really good I thought now he was doing it against backup tackles for the most part right and that needs to be taken into account but there were so many things that I heard

last year when they drafted him well the Georgia defense isn't designed for this right if you look Georgia hasn't had I'm so tired this is not a you thing I'm just like stop like football spawning to me that the Georgia defense doesn't ask its players to get sacks. Yes.

Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. And then like, well, you're, Zach, you're making too big a deal about sacks because they actually, if you look at his pressure rate,

it was like, like his, his pressures per pass rush or as high as anyone in, in the first round other than Will Anderson, I think, right? Okay. Like there's, same thing about Jordan Davis,

right? Yeah. So that's, so that's my point is that, all right, I keep hearing this, keep hearing this. Well,

now you're in the NFL. well, let's see this materialize. And it did not materialize last year. And Nolan Smith, for full, I liked him coming out because I thought there were tools there that you just simply can't find. You can't find that type of athleticism. And he had, you know, he was a top recruit, big piece of a national championship team. But yeah, I was underwhelmed by this. Now, he didn't get on the field.

And Howie Roseman said at the combine, after the playoff, game. They talked about how he should have played more. But the Eagles were trying to win last year. It is the biggest red flag. Yes. Right. And it is hard to divorce the fact that there was so much going on behind the scenes. And like we want to be able to just throw out everything that happened with Matt Patricia. But Josh Sweat was totally breaking down, right? Completely falling off a cliff because he had played so many snaps, way more snaps than he'd ever played in his career. This was a thing that we were following over the course of the season in the first half of the year. Why are these guys on the edge playing so many snaps? It is not the

Eagles way. And one thing that would have helped that was if they trusted Nolan Smith to be on the field for 25 snaps. And that's part, like this is a guy who went to Georgia for four years. He should not be, you want to tell me like he's a projection as a body type. But to trust him on the field, why can't he get on the field? For the first time, you and I are an agreement on Nolan Smith. Now, I did just want to float one thing by you before we transition this conversation. Zach Bonn, Brandon Graham, Joanne O'Quara. Like, are there other pieces there before we get into the draft conversation

that you say, all right, this is part of the edge rushing mix? Or do you think these are pieces that we talk about after we see how the draft material asks? I think Bonn is part of that deal. And I think it is, you know, you can listen to what they say and watch what they do. They, you know, they're throwing out the Andrew Van Ginkl connection to Zach on. Okay. Like, I'm willing to buy that. But they went and signed him on day one. Like, this is a guy that they were targeting. And so like, you know, bonds, pass rush, uh, efficiency numbers are not at the level that Van Ginkles were even before his, his breakout year, quote unquote. But I, I trust that

that's a guy who I think is going to be in the mix. Um, we'll get to the draft conversation. But I actually, if you believe that Jalen Carter is going to be great, I, I think they're okay on the edge right now. I don't think that they need to prioritize. I don't think this is all of a sudden replacing Hassan Redick is like the number two operating order for what they need to do roster-wise. And is Brandon Graham chief morale officer? Or are you expecting like productive snaps? 10 snaps a game.

Okay. You know? Yeah. 15 snaps a game. What about you? Yeah. I mean, what you get from Brandon Graham is gravy. Exactly.

And then the last one, these future deals guys join Okara, Terrell Lewis. Are you, are they, let's see what the roster looks like after the draft? Or do you think Julian O'Quarr, the fact that he's gotten to the quarterback in the NFL, maybe he's someone who could be interesting here? I mean, I don't think anybody's betting on Julian O'Quara. We had our whole, our whole futures guy bracket. Did he win? I believe so. I think he won.

So maybe that's what actually pushed Howie over the edge. You watched that episode. It's like, you know what? I can trade Hassan Reddick for a 2035 fourth round pick. I think that's, you know, you hope that one of those guys turns. into someone who can give you 10 snaps a game, but I don't think anybody's, that's not materially affecting their actual roster plans.

Agreed. Okay. All right, before we move on to the draft, let's talk about another kind of draft. Great transition. If you went to a bar and ordered yourself a nice cold Miller light, but you don't have to do that. You can order them right to your house.

A lot has changed over the years, but one thing that hasn't is the great taste of Miller Light. It was the original light beer, and to this day it is still the best one. Miller Light has more of the taste you want and less of the stuff you don't. Talked about those great college games that are coming up tonight.

What would be better than watching those games, watching Caitlin Clark drain 40-footers, Kim Mulkey stomping around on the sideline, and you're sucking them back with your friends. I'm moving away from the boys. I'm going to be fully inclusive. Be the change you want to see in the world. You know, sucking them back with your friends.

So, Miller-Lead keeps it simple. Undebatable quality, great taste. only 96 calories. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. A light beer that tastes like beer, less filling and only 96 calories, the original light beer since 1975. Times changed, but you can always enjoy the great taste of Miller Lite. Taste like Miller Time to get Miller Lite delivered right to your door. Visit millerlight.com slash p hly birds or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces.

I'm on Broad Street yesterday. I have my nephew in the car with more. I have two of my nephews in the car with me. I mean, my son and my oldest nephew says, Uncle Zach, it's a great day for a ball game, right? And it's true, right? So there are times when it's just, if you're looking outside and you're like, it's a great day to see a ball game today, but you say you don't have tickets to the game, where do you turn?

That's where game time comes in. Game time is now an authorized ticket marketplace of Midgetlegy Baseball, which makes getting tickets even faster and easier. Prices on the GameTime app actually go down the closer gets to their first pitch. With killer last minute deals in all-in prices, views from your seats and their lowest price guarantee, game time takes the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets. You can go through the game time app. and you can find tickets to these Phillies games coming up.

You can, there's last minute tickets and flash deals and zone deals. And I mentioned the last minute deal. Save up to 60% off buying last minutes for sports, concerts, comedy, and theater near you. But the reason why I'm emphasizing baseball tickets is because they have a great deal going on right now. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with game time. For a limited time, all users can get, and that's all users, can get $20 off, any MLB, B purchase of $150 or more in the game time app with code first pitch. Terms applied, that's code first pitch for $20 off from March 25th to April 14th.

So it's coming up in 14 days to get your tickets in. Download the game time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right, Zach. So we talked about who was there on the roster. Do you think that at 22 overall, or you know, moving up, moving down, however, howie Roseman wants to finagle things in the first round, do you think that edge rusher is a first round possibility now that hasan redick is gone

so i think it's a first round possibility but i will put a period there not that now that the hasan reddick is gone i thought it was a possibility before this and there because a i wasn't expecting hasan reddick to be on the roster i don't think they were but also sure but also no but for this reason too we one thing you and i have have done in our you know five years working together is when we talk about first round second round we look at the future you know the future contracts, right? The only players the Eagles have under contract at edge rusher beyond this season is Bryce Huff or, you know, it's Bryce Huff and Nolan Smith. And you always need to think about that because they don't draft in the first round for the year coming up. They draft it for the rookie

contract and potentially beyond, right? So I thought this was a possibility before that, knowing that Reddick and Sweat were both entering the last years of their deal. Now, this gets to the thing. I don't think that the, I don't love this edge rusher class. I think that there are years when there's just more value in the first round for edge rushers, maybe someone like Jared Verst Falls. Maybe the Eagles are tantalized by Chop Robinson's athletic testing and his tools. Latu from UCLA has a lot of fans in this draft. But I don't think that's where the value is going to be at 22. So I don't think it's more of a priority now. I think it was already something they were looking at. I think when you look at positions where

Howie Roseman will draft in the first round, it's D-Line O-Line Corner. They're not going to take a wide receiver this year in the first round. Well, he's never done a corner. Yeah. We've talked about that. Yeah. But D-Line O-Line corner. I actually have some thoughts on that for later, but the corner thing. Yeah.

D-Line O-Line corner are the positions that I was watching this year in the first round. And when I said D-Line, edge rusher. Like I had a mock draft a few weeks ago going into the Combine where I had them taking Jaredverse. I think that it's not, a zero percent possibility,

but I still think offensive tackle and corner of the more likely outcomes. So you think it's more about the class and not like the state of the roster that they, yeah, I think you wouldn't be interested in an edge rusher. Oh yeah,

I think if it was, what if it was a, you know, an average edge rusher class? Yeah, then I think they would certainly be in the market for it. Like if this was the draft, the Andre Dillard year, right? Where it's just loaded with like edge rushers,

defensive tackles. then yeah, I do think that could be a possibility because that's a premium position. Yeah, I think that they can get by this year, like we said, with the players that they have. And then it's going to be a big position to watch beyond this season. But I don't think the Hassan Reddick trade changes anything with their draft strategy. Yeah, you know, I am all about best player available, you know, factoring in, the positional importance. And, you know, if an edge rusher is standing out

at the top of your board at 22, you know, maybe you got to pull the trigger. But I would view the series of moves they've made at the position, dating back to drafting Nolan Smith last year, as pretty haphazard, I think, if they were going to use a first-round pick on an edge-rusher now.

I don't think that that's something they should or will do. And I even from a like how he loves edge rushers I would be pretty blown away if he uses a first round pick on an edge rusher this year One because like I'm expecting a tackle. Yeah It just makes too much sense and corner We can get to later this week, but I just like you have enough guys now and part of the reason that you had to trade Hassan Reddick is because there's only so many snaps to go around I know you want to rotate more and it's a little bit talking out of both sides of my mouth because I I'm a little bit Nolan Smith skeptical,

but you've got to give him a chance to play. And you know, you sign Zach Bonn, you've signed Bryce Huff, you're bringing Josh Sweatback. Like, I view that as different than, you know,

drafting a tackle and he has to sit for a year to behind Lane Johnson because that's where you get tackles. I think they'll probably add a middle round edge rusher. I think they probably need to. They probably need a guy who can do like maybe a little bit of play the run on the edge, and rush to pass it from the inside,

like a little bit of a Milton Williams type. But I just, like, they've got too many other things to address and not enough snaps to go around there. I would be pretty surprised if they, if, I know that they've been like linked to Jared Verst and these guys. Yeah.

That would kind of blow me away. Yeah. Like I think the years that you find good, you know, productive edge rushers in the 20s, like I'm thinking about T.J. Watt, for instance, who was drafted. 2017 draft. He was the 30th pick.

But he was like the sixth or seventh edge rusher off the board, right? If you're drafting a 22 and you're getting the second or third best edge rusher in the class, I think that speaks to, like, this is not a good class. Like, that's a position. And all the more reason why, like,

give me the fifth best tackle. Exactly. Yeah. So that's, that to me speaks to like, if there's a really good edge rusher in the first round, he's going the top half of the draft. And the ones who slip,

it's because other edge rushers are going higher, right? I have the 2017 draft in front of me, and you have Miles Garrett, and you have Solomon Thomas, and you have Derek Barnett, and you have Jonathan Allen's and the interior guy, Charles Harris, right? Tack McKinley, Taco Charlton.

By the time T.J. Wat goes off the board, you know, it was a deep edge rushing class. That's not the case this year. So I think where the talent is this year, we've talked about this. an offensive draft class. This is this is quarterback, wide receiver, offensive tackle. And they're good corners,

but this is not an edge rushing class. And so it would really surprise me if the 20 second pick is an edge rush. The only thing I could see is if, like, for some reason, someone like Dallas Turner slips. And I don't, if I was doing a mock draft today, I would have Dallas Turner going to the Falcons. But

if Dallas Turner slips into the teens, what's a position that Eagles would trade up for? teams typically trade up for those who, well, they trade for those who pass the ball, those who protect the passer, and those who affect the passer. All right. So you would trade up for an edge rusher, but I don't think they would draft an edge rusher at 22. And again, this might be clips. This might be clipped as like old takes exposed.

We'll see what happens. I'm with you. Expose me too. Yeah. And people have been asking for you to expose yourself on the show. So we can connect that. I would be very surprised. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't see that happening. But I do agree they don't have a third round pick this year. A lot can change. How he hasn't, you know, it's interesting. I was actually talking to Vince about this before. Like the idea that they should trade. What I've always heard is that the hardest spot it is the trade,

the hardest spots the trade in the first round are between 20 and 30. And when you look at where Howie's stuck and picked, it was when he was in the 20s. And often because he couldn't work out a deal to move up, right? And the reason I hear that is because teams tend to view, like the player you're going to get at 28 is not much different than the player you're going to get at like 22. Whereas teams trade up to the teens because I see the drop off. They obviously trade up to the top 10.

Teams trade up to 31 and 32 to get that fifth year option sometimes. But when you're in the 20s, it's kind of like a matter. He's done it before. He did it for Dillard. He moved up for Dillard. He moved up for Dillard. He moved up. Okay, yeah, he moved up two spots. That's true. That's true. He jumped to Houston, right? He's stuck on the board for Agalore, stuck on the board.

I'm sorry, stuck on the board for Joe and Regger, stuck on the board for Marcus Smith. And both those years, they tried trading up, but it's harder sometimes when you're in the 20s. So this is all a way of saying. We'll see what picks they add. But I think that Ed Rush is more likely to come in the fourth round, maybe the third round, if they make a trade. then it would be in the first round, from my perspective. I'm like, if we were playing the turkey game, what position are they going to draft, which we will do at some point?

And actually, maybe that's a chance for us to get Jimmy Kemsky on to give them another chance to defend the title. Like, what position are they going to draft in the first round? I'm so heavy on tackle. Me too. And the corner thing, we have talked about, like the eagle, Howie Roseman never having drafted a corner of the first round

is more circumstantial than anything, right? you know, they would have tried to draft Stingley or Sauce Gardner. They wanted Certan or J.C. Horn instead of Devante Smith. Last year, I think they would have taken Christian Gonzalez if Carter was gone. But. Not Nolan Smith? But it's a joke. I think that is a little bit different than a 22.

Like I think they, like, corner is a difficult position once you get beyond like the stud. Sure. And so I think they would have been willing to draft a stud corner. I don't know if I think. at 22, they would be willing to roll the dice on the guy who's the third corner off the board and trusting their evaluation of a difficult position to project that three is better than seven, right? Like picking out the guys who are first and second best is a little easier and those guys translate quickly, but, you know, how sure are you that this guy is, you know, AJ Terrell

and not, you know, Justin Gilbert or whoever? Fair point. And I just think that... I mean, I think it's a position. I think it's the second most likely position in the first round, but tackle just makes so much sense to me. And I think it's, now I know they could trade up, but the difference in the tackle you're going to get at 22 and the tackle you'll get at 50,

to me is much different than the corner you'll get at 22, and the corner you'll get at 50. Exactly. Well said. All right. Last thing here on Hassan Redick, I just want to give me, you know, you're a Philly guy.

You got a Philly guy who came in and I, like my most vivid memory of Hassan Redick is that NFC championship game, he gets the big sack and he's standing on the, like the benches, just yelling at the crowd like, this is my city, right? What is your like, what's your lasting Hassaneretic legacy in Philadelphia? Two years, but an impressive two years. Yeah, too short. That's what I would say.

It's been, he's been awesome. I mean, he's been everything they could have wanted and more. They went to the Super Bowl. He was probably the best player on the field in the NFC championship game. I keep, I wrote this, I said it earlier this show. Like the Eagles had this dry spell of top edge rushers. Hassan Redick in two years here has back-to-back double-digit sack seasons, what, 27 sacks over two years, not even including the playoffs. He's been, he's been an elite player.

He loved playing in Philly, right? He wanted to come back here. It was a great story. It was great while he was here. They signed him on a discount or a blow market deal. That's probably a better way to frame it. And he wants the contract that he feels he earned. But I'll look back at this as saying as one of the really good signings in franchise history,

one of the really productive players in franchise history. But it's a career that was too short, frankly, for the type of play. Like this is someone and we didn't spend much time on. on this show, but yeah, the alternative could have been signed him to Daniel Hunter's contract. Like, right, say we're going to pay you for high level production over the next two years. And that's just not the evaluation or the valuation that they made. Yeah, I think stylistically, he was also really fun to watch. Like that's the kind of player he is.

It's, you know, it was, it was hard not to zero in on him, you know, on the edge, like a little bit smaller, but just had this way of bending around guys. And also like from a, what's the most important thing? very good at getting the ball out. Sure. When he gets to the quarterback, you know, very violent at the point of attack. He was a really fun player to watch.

Yeah. And I like, I will die on this hill if I have to. Sacks matter. Like, sacks are so important. And sacks are more important than pressures. Sacks are more important. And what Hassan Reddick was a lead at was getting to the quarterback.

And like you say, I'm sorry, taking down the quarterback. And like you said, taking the ball away too. but the Eagles haven't had anyone like that during my time covering the team. And I don't know if they'll have anyone like that in the rest of my time covering the team. Yeah. And I think they're betting that they can still be a top 10 sack unit without having a top 10 sack player on the edge. Well said.

Yeah. All right. Good to be back in the saddle. In these last three, four, five minutes here, I spoke about this with Rich, but I didn't speak about it with you in the time you were away. I hope it was a great vacation. The Eagles, well, Jake Rosenberg. I was going to save this for tomorrow. Oh, okay.

We'll save for a more. Okay, yeah. Yeah, so just a tease for tomorrow. A little tease for tomorrow. Talk about the shuffling of the Eagles front office as you touched on last week with Jake Rosenberg set to leave after the draft. What's going on there in the front office? Yeah, we've got a whole week of shows.

A nice vacation for you? Yeah, we're a good time. Good. Absolutely. I appreciate you. I was thinking about opening the show with like my Mickey Mouse voice going, leaning full into it, but, you know. We're not football's talking.

I'm not football's talk today. When was the last time you were at Disney World before this? I went probably over a decade ago with Rachel's family as like grown adults. Okay. So once before that in my childhood. So how's a different childhood, adult parent? I mean, I would say the adult one was more like you go to Epcot and, you know, you're drinking around the world and going on rides that way. I had a great time with Casey.

He was game for all the, the roller coasters and stuff, we're still talking about Tower of Terror. We had a great time. Nice. Nice. And I think, yeah, it was more fun for me to watch them be enchanted.

And I promised myself I wasn't going to bother you too much. I think I only sent two texts during the day during the, during the time there. Sometimes at a night, okay. And I appreciated you. I was surprised you, you listened to the shows.

I appreciated that. Thank you. Of course. I'm not going to listen? Well, No, you're at Disney World with your family? Well, I wasn't listening while I was at Disney World. I caught up over the weekend.

Okay, all right, good. Well, I'm thrilled that you're back. There was one point that I was going to bring up where you made the case about like how everything that the Eagles do, like it really, the big thing is what is Jillette Hertz going to do? Do that point that you were making? Yeah, yeah. Which sounded an awful lot to me like somebody saying defense doesn't matter.

That's not. I said ultimately the quarterback, dictates everything. But yeah, it's not that defense doesn't matter. That's not even right church, wrong pure. That's all that's the exact same thing. Okay.

All right. Yeah, I said this to you privately. I'll say it on here. I think that I think the last three shows shows how good a host you are, right? I mean, you keep the show moving well. I mean, I'm listening to Rich, but at the same time, I'm looking at the clock. I'm making sure that we're getting in and out of things.

And I, the three shows that we did, it's the John Mullaney joke, where I said this on the air the other day but it's one of my favorite John Lane jokes because this happened to me a lot as a kid where you do a happy birthday sign you do a big H, a big A, a big A,

and then all of a sudden you're trying you're like curving the W so we have this not the W, the Y rather so you have the I know how to spell happy okay but so yeah I had these shows

mapped out and I said rich these rundowns and then we're at like you know 1252 I'm like, we haven't even gotten to the third segment yet. So, yeah, glad you're back. Well, that's good. That means you've got leftover stuff.

There you go. Leftover material. Happy to see Julia again. Julia has, how everything's going? Things are going great. A lot of exciting stuff happening. They missed you, though. Glad you're back.

Good to see you. You too. All right. That'll do it for this Hassaneretic themed episode of the PHY Eagles podcast. We are back tomorrow at noon, noon all week, barring another in emergency podcast. We'll see, we'll see what happens. But we're going to start getting into sort of like big picture draft stuff. And then next week and the week after, we're going to go position by position and get into

these specific players. Hopefully some good guests along the way. It's fully draft season. As Zach said, it's a buzzy time. And we are here to get buzzed with you. So for Zach and Julia, I'm Bo. We thank you for listening. Happy April Fool's Day.

And for all of us here at P.H.L. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching, subscribing, hit the like button, all that good stuff. We will talk to you tomorrow. And as always, you're all silly like the mayor.