PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | The Bill Belichick-Philadelphia Eagles timeline returns, Howie Roseman speaks & NFL Draft RBs

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Loaded show in the middle of this pre-draft week as Howie Roseman and Nick Sirianni addressed the media for their annual pre-draft press conference, which included some off-putting defensiveness about the Haason Reddick trade. An interesting ESPN story lifts the veil on the Jeffrey Lurie’s flirtation with Bill Belichick last offseason. And it’s time to look at the draft class of running backs in case the Eagles are searching for a Saquon Barkley backup. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf discuss it all as the draft creeps ever closer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Wednesday, Energy. Bo Wolf, Zach Berman Loss, to talk about Zach. You just made it in the nick of time. Not in the bill of time. For the start of this show, you heard from Jalen Hertz and a few other Eagles.

What's popping? Good to see you. Bill Belichick News with the Eagles coming out today. We talked to Howie Roseman yesterday. We're talking running backs, loaded show. Loaded show, yes. I spoke to Jalen Hertz, spoke to Cam Juergens,

had to leave when Dallas got her. It was speaking to get here. Hope Dallas was not offended. Jaywin Hertz, it was interesting. He was, it was framed to him. You know, you said different years required different leadership. He's checking Twitter, sorry to interrupt you. Dallas Goddard just tweeted FUZ berm.

Well, I apologize, Dallas. I promise you, I will bother you enough this year that you will say probably FUZ berm at another time. So, J.O.N. Hertz, when he was asked about how different years required different leadership styles, if you will. Yes. And what's going to be different this year? And he says, he said, find out what this year is going to require. How do you get that temperature?

We don't know the identity yet. I can't tell you the identity yet. That's not what he said. Well, I know, but that's just sort of thing. Actually, what he said is he doesn't want to leave it up to anyone else to set the culture this year. And he communicated that. He needs to communicate that to the people above and elsewhere that like he's the one, you know, that he's the one kind of instilling the culture in the buildings. So that was an interesting way of framing it.

So he has fired Nick Siriano. No, no, no. But that like, you know, and he says, and it all starts with work, right? But it was, I thought that was an interesting way that he framed it. I asked him about his reaction to Brian Johnson's dismissal or the coordinator of change. Important question. And he said, that's been a minute since he spoke to us. And he said that Brian's been a huge part of his development.

He thinks Brian can be a big time head. coach in the league. Like the Eagles needed to change and and they made a change. But he still thinks Brian, he said it wasn't going to happen here, but he thinks Brian's going to be a big time head coach in the league. He said as far as Colin Moore, Doug Nussmeier, Nuss. Doug Nuss. Ooh, Nuss.

Recruited him to Florida. And whenever I hear this and you heard this with Brian Johnson, so-and-so tried to, he didn't do a good enough job. Sure. J-Len didn't go there. But no. he did say that he has by the time he leaves the NFL Jill and Hertz will be coached by every other every coach he turned down every coach turned

down yeah he was asked about having more responsibility at the line of scrimmage opposed Jason Kelsey World he says that's something that he's that's something he's kind of always wanted and always been interested in and he said that you know Jason's pump take them a few times right so like he's had you know he's had time to kind of to prepare for this year. He's really throwing everybody under the bus. No, no, he wasn't throwing out of course. He wanted Kelsey to retire a couple of years ago.

He wants Syriani fire as the head coach. That's not what it was. But yeah, he was saying that. He's kind of used to picking up new systems. It's like being back in college again where there's this revolving door. Yeah, but back back to the merry-go-round. So much for the same play call. Yeah, back to Mary-Go-around.

Yeah, he's excited to Sequant's on this side now. He's worked with him. this off season. So those are some of the highlights. Devante Smith. What's that? Anything that did he say anything about Devante Smith? Not specifically not everybody wrote their Devante Smith stories yesterday. Nobody asked it was pretty quick and no it was it was more about some of the off season changes. There was a lot about Sequin and then Kelsey.

I speak about Kelsey Cam Juergens now in Kelsey's locker. You know the Eagles have. Well yes. Yeah. Well I would like to know who's got the locker next Tyler Steen. Interesting. Yeah. So for those who don't know, there's five lockers in the back right corner of the Eagle's locker room. We just call it the back right or the back left because if you're facing it, it's right. If you're standing there.

Back right. You enter the room. It's on your right. And you stare down the narrow hallway. Far back right. If you're sitting at your locker, it's kind of on the left side. It shares a wall with the sort of players lounge. Sure.

So there's five lockers there. And it's sequenced ever since the Doug Peterson era, left tackle, left. guard, center, right guard, right tackle. So, Cam Juergens, who was in the right guard locker last year, he moved from his rookie year to Isaac S. Amalo's locker. Did somebody ask him that or did he reveal that? He revealed that. Okay.

Great revelation. Appreciate it, Cam. He got moved. So, E.J. or no, Elliot, being the astute reporter he is, asked who's in the right. Very good job. Yeah. Ask who's in the locker next to him and says, it says Tyler Steen. Yeah.

So in any event, Cam, Juergens taken over at. He said, I can't remember his name. Just like Nick. And actually there was kind of talk behind the scenes, like if not behind the scenes among the team, among the reporters, that if, if, if they brought in a starting right guard where they moved Steen's locker. And I'm like, no, they wouldn't.

I didn't think they'd move Steen's locker. Someone else I was speaking to. No, because it would be a rookie. Yeah, they're not going to. Exactly. But if they had signed somebody, then yeah. Well, like, signed someone after the fact. I don't think they'd move Steen after the fact.

Probably not. Because as someone else pointed out, Isaac Say Maloo's year when he started in that locker stall and then he got benched and they didn't like move with Nuski over. Nor did Dickerson have a spot there when he was a rookie? Sure, exactly. So that was kind of, but I'm going to get a text after the show from the other reporter. We weren't like on the record, if you will, so I don't want to say who it was. But he's like, oh, no, he thinks they'd move Steen. Oh, I don't think they were.

Yeah, I didn't think so either. So, yeah, so that was some of these stuff from Cam Juergens. He said, like, it would have been so funny if he revealed that it was one of like the futures guys who was there. Yeah, exactly. Or to keep it getting, it says TBD, like, you have to earn this lock? Yes. Yeah. I asked Cam, like, you had two years to prep for this, but.

Or just said Troy Fautano. Or just said, how do you deal with the pressure, the burden, taking over for Jason Kelsey? This is like Bill Guthridge taking over for Dean. Smith right did you say that no I didn't say the Bill Guthrush part be a little before his time because there's always that that thing when when college coach you don't want to be the guy you want to be the guy exactly and he's like you know he gave the answer you would expect him to give that he can't look at it that way he just has to be himself that be too much on him if he thinks of like

having to replace Jason Kelsey but you know Tony in the equipment staff or in the locker room did a good job you know, cleaning everything out. So they haven't really seen the locker room that clean in a while. But now that's Cam Jerg. I'm taking more shots at Kelsey. Oh, no. They didn't say that.

I'm saying that. Oh, you're saying that. But Tony did a good job cleaning it out. He said he doesn't know how they got that all out of there. There's a lot of stuff, right? But there's probably more room to navigate now in that locker room. The thing is just teeming, overflowing with jerky. Yeah, that'd be if he just put boxes of beef jerky in there.

Yeah. The jerky jerky jerky. Yep. Yeah. All right. Anything else from the Novicar Complex? From today, no, yesterday we had Howie and Nick, we can get to that. And we had Devante.

Shout out to Devante getting that contract, but I know you're, you're eager to get these Bill Belichick. No, let's stick on the press conferences and then we'll talk about Belichick after. Let's talk about yesterday's pre-draft press conference with High Roseman. Although, let me ask you this, do you think the Eagles knew that this Bill Belichick story was going to drop today? when they scheduled the Howie Rosen Press conference for yesterday? I don't know. And it would be a leap for me to suggest that those two events are related. I would have loved to have the chance to like...

My supposition, just guessing is an unequivocal yes. I mean, it'd be kind of awkward to have Nick and Howie up there together. And then the questions are all about, you know, you guys talk about. I mean, that's what the questions would have been about. Exactly. So, I mean, certainly, but I don't know enough to say these two events were related. I will, I do know enough to say, great job, as always, by Seth Wittlesham. We're going to get to that.

We're going to have that full conversation. Let's talk about what Howard Roseman did say yesterday. Yeah. What were your big takeaways? You were there? Well, I thought the most interesting moment, certainly, was the defensiveness from Howie Roseman about the Hassan Reddick trade. you know he was asked about uh he was asked about the trade like do he uh he initially said it's a win win

this is you know hassan redox a great player all this stuff and then the follow-up from uh dave uram was like well if he's such a great player you know are you getting fair value with a conditional pick and and immediately immediately howie like very hair trigger well it's not it's not a conditional pick yeah like yeah you understand the semantic difference here he's saying it's a third that could turn into a second and it's two years out like is that it's a very fair question is that enough value and he again is like sort of pissily put pushing back on the idea that like this isn't that this could even be questioned as enough value because it's not the full picture it's not just the player but it's him leaving and the money that you can use but he could have said that like I I think that he is

absolutely um sensitive to the perception that he didn't do well in this trade, but it's hard on to believe that that perception is reality. I mean, this thing was such an eventuality that, of course, they didn't get all they could get. So this is Howie going back to law school, if you will. How he's never been an accountant, he's been a lawyer. I want to make that clear. Or he's professionally trained as a lawyer, and I'm not professionally trained as a lawyer.

But my understanding is one thing you learn is that pick apart the semantics of the question when you don't want to address the question, right? If you disagree with the premise of the question, it keeps you from answering the actual question. Just when you think you've got all the answers, I change the question. So you disagree with the premise. So he picks apart the semantics. And yeah, so he disagrees with the premise that like an isolate, a move in a vacuum is supposed to make you better. He should have answered it better.

And he was wrong to jump on Dave Uram, I think, for like the structure of the question because he understood the spirit of the question. I was listening to Darrell Mori this morning on the Rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast. I'll give them, I'm saying the name. I can't say I didn't say the name here. That and actually Darrell says that he wishes he could communicate like the whole truth, the fans sometimes. But unfortunately he doesn't have a microphone with which to do so. No, no, no. His point was like if you say something that like you think is going to happen, but then it doesn't happen, then you're caught up in.

and well you said this was this was going to happen i think the way howie could have answered that question and it would have been a fair response and it would have been informative for the audience is that they didn't view it like trading hasan reddick makes the team better they viewed it and you can disagree with this if if you feel free to disagree if you think this will happen that they traded hasan reddick for bryce huff a draft pick two years down the line line and cash that they can allocate elsewhere. That basically Hassan Reddick wanted to come back at a certain, or he wanted a certain number.

The Eagles weren't willing to pay that number. So they kind of looked at it from the global perspective of, all right, how do you take one asset and get something else for it and then replace it with this? The idea that they didn't get enough in the trade. Yeah, I mean, we've discussed that. I mean, enough is subjective. They got the most that they could get. it's it doesn't seem like adequate value for the level of player that he is i the thing that i

like not even push back but just slightly disagree with if i'm going to be a howie and argue the semantics with with the way that you just framed it is not that i don't think this was the case of the galaxy brain idea like well you know we could trade hasan reddick and replace him with brysoff and use this money to extend devante all these different things i think it was very clearly Hassan Reddick wasn't coming back. Yes. And so then they had to figure out what the best way to move forward was, given that eventuality. Yes, exactly.

And you put it well there. That was the way they viewed it. Like, all right, how do you replace Hassan Reddick with the expectation that Hassan Reddick's not returning on your team? And how do you get some type of value and reallocate that cash in a different way? So why do you think that he was so sensitive about that? that in particular. Oh, because the, I think he does not like to look at it like, how does this trade make your team better?

Because it clearly, when you trade an all pro edge rusher for a 2026 pick, it's not making your team better. So that's why he said we can have a longer conversation about like the, you know, about building a roster and you can't just look at the move in a vacuum, but he didn't want to have that conversation up there. I think that's his, if I had to guess how he takes umbrage with the idea that every move is viewed isolated and not within the overall context of the off season. So how he probably also, I think part of the reason is he knows that this has been characterized

as a thing of he didn't do a good enough job. Exactly. Yeah. And so I, yeah, I will say this. I think how he could have done a better job explaining that move in a way that doesn't like reveal so much that it's um you know it's proprietary but reveals enough that you can explain the team's thinking and um and it it would seem logical to logical people um i think they're going to miss a son redick i've said that i think son radick's an outstanding player i understand like you

you get to a point where a player wants x your value on him is why i want sex x i definitely did not say sex. I definitely did not say sex. Okay. Your player wants X. I guess because I beat the plural with wants. It's like what we, okay, player wants sex. Okay. Okay. A player, they would not have a very good roster if they weren't willing to have players who want sex. I mean, I'll let you, I just don't think they could compete. No, nor the rest of the NFL for that matter. Um, so in any event. So that, yeah, that did come up was Howie's first time addressing reporters since the trade. I thought it was interesting his framing for all the questions about, you know, drafting, essentially drafting an offense tackle, a player who would not have a clear start, a clear path to a

starting job. And he did not back away from this idea. He said the things that we've outlined on this show, player could get hurt, right? They don't view it like a red shirt. And, you don't view it like a redshirt year that having depth is important. This is a position that they value that, you know, he referenced how in the Super Bowl year they had a backup left tackle and they had to step in. It's not like baseball where you're where you have a guy in, in AAA or double A, right? He's still on the roster. They really clung to this idea that if you're going to learn, what better way to learn than behind Gleine Johnson or Jason Kelsey. Nick loved this. Yeah. I don't feel as strongly about that part of it. it's more you're making a draft for the long term.

It's a good framing for coaches. Exactly. It's, you know, because, and you ask this question sort of like the way that they have to think about things day to day is much different for a general manager and a head coach. And so, yeah, for a coach, like that idea is great. Like, oh, I can watch this guy and learn. But yeah, I mean, it's football. Guys get hurt all the time. And, like, that is something that is absolutely going to happen.

And the position matters. And so, yes, I don't know, like, you know, this is the week before the draft press conference. So you cannot take anything they say about the draft seriously in any way. But if it is that they draft a guy like Amarius Mims or Tyler Guyton who is just a tackle and cannot play guard. Yeah. Like that matters. Like a starting caliber backup tackle is more valuable to you than a replacement level guard or, you know, whatever it is. Like, that's just the truth.

Yeah. And the reason I asked Nick that question because it's obvious how he thinks this way. His draft history suggested it. His comments in the past have suggested it. They draft succession plans. They think long term. It's also obvious. At the important positions.

It's also obvious that Nick Siriani is coaching for his job this year, right? I mean, Jeffrey Lurie didn't back off that idea publicly when, you know, he, he, he, basically said coaches know they have to perform in this league. You have a story that we'll talk about in ESPN where Bill Belichick is literally talking about or people around Bill Belichick are saying he has his eyes on the Eagles and the Cowboys and the Giants, right? Teams where the belief is the head coach has to win. So I frame it that way and is is that Nick Siriani's in a position where he needs to maximize this season. And if you're talking about maximizing the season at the 20 second pick in the draft, the best pick for

or Nick Siriani might not be someone who's going to be your 2026 starter, right? But that's the way Hallie Roseman has to think. Howie Roseman is employed to think about 2026. Nick Siriani's employed to think about week one. That's exactly right. Anything else from Howie and or Nick? Yeah, the cornerback thing came up when I said the cornerback thing. The Eagles draft history.

This felt like one where it was like Howie had a specific message he wanted to disseminate and took the opportunity to do so. Well, Howie doesn't mind letting you know that Russell Douglas played well after he left Eagles coaching staff, right? Right. That they drafted a good player. Yeah. I mean, look, our evaluation was spot on. This guy's going to be a seven, eight year player.

I mean, that's true. But to be fair, how he also did cut him. Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah. But in any event, yeah, Howie said that they value cornerbacks, which we know, that they have had to find different ways to acquire high-level. level cornerbacks, trades, free agent signings, going back to even his time running the personnel department, as he mentioned.

But he's not oblivious to their history drafting cornerbacks. And it's something that they try to learn from their mistakes. But yeah, he wanted to make it clear. The way to phrase that question to get to the heart of the matter is, like, we know you value corners because you've spent a lot of money on it. Has that been your course of action because you think, that's a more reliable way to do it and it's a difficult position to, you know, judge in the draft or is that just how things have fallen?

And I would imagine that's the way things have had fallen. As you've documented, like last year's pick could have been Christian Gonzalez. Two years ago, they would have loved to trade up for Salis Gardner or trade up for Derek Stingley. Three years ago, I mean, DeMonte Smith is an elite wide receiver. He was not their top choice at that spot. It would have, you know, Patrick Sartan, J.C. Horn, right? So that's a way of saying.

And it's the same thing that Howie said when explaining the Darius Slate trade, that when you take a guy high and you miss, like on Sydney Jones, this is what you have to do to pay the cost of that miss. Exactly. So, yeah, they like cornerbacks. The idea you, I think there's more validity to the storyline that the Eagles haven't taken a linebacker in the first round since 1979 to the storyline that Howie Roseman hasn't drafted. in a quarterback in the first round because I think there's been times he's interested in doing that. It's just kind of the way the board has fallen.

Otherwise, I thought you got a good answer on Jeremiah Trader Jr. Yeah, he said that, I mean, how he knows how to pander when he has to. He's emotional when he feels, he's biased, he feels this connection to these players from Philly and these people who've been in the building who have legacies

with the team. And that's why he kind of has to remove that emotion. motion from the decision. He says it's always good to have someone from Philly, who understands what it takes to play here, who understands what it means to the city, but that you have to make the evaluation independent of that. This is me talking now, not Howie. I think the Jeremiah Trotter evaluation is really complicated for the Eagles outside of the player, for the reason we spoke about what the Niz on Friday that, man, that is a burden. Like, they have, he was It would always be compared to his father.

And even like that can be really tough to deal with in this market. Why is he falling? You know, Dane Bruegler had a seven-round-a-mock today. I had them as a fifth round. I see him, you know, going fourth-fifth round. I thought in the early in the draft cycle, we were talking about a second, third-round pick. Yeah, so this is one of those examples where when you watch the player,

like you like the player, after the year when you start to look at the testing, the measurables, things of that. nature. She's not particularly big. He's not particularly fast, right? And that's a position where people tend to want big and fast. It's actually, now, Nacobi Dean, you might have said he fell for injury stuff, like, but it might be because he's not particularly big and he's not particularly fast, right? And so at the end of the year, when you just looked at the tape, he was considered a higher pick than what teams evaluated on draft day. I think that's probably the situation with Jeremiah Trunter Jr. I would also add Jeremiah Trotter.

fell to the third round of the draft. I know for a fact that there were people in that draft room who were like, you know, pounding the table. Judge the player here. Don't worry about the, like, there was a medical grade there that there were people in that room who were worried about the medical grade. And there was one person in that room in particular who was like. So they, as they tell the story at least.

Yes. Although the person who is like, it's not a big name it's um it's not a big name coach it's someone who's like long gone hasn't even been involved with the team in 25 years there's no reason for why can't you just say it i don't want to get the i i hope i'm not conflating a few stories but but my belief is that willie shaw was the one who like really felt strongly in jeremiah trotter junior but i find the way you that you pound the table kind of interesting with my it's like but what would you pay it with your hand just so the way that you do it is because it's kind of

funny to me. Pound him with my fist instead of my hand. So here's my issue. I think the fist is the right way to pound. Okay, well, because so it's the same thing like when I'm I have to take my wedding band off when I am playing baseball or playing basketball. Because it's on your left because you're lefty. I'm lefty, exactly. So when I pound the table,

do you pound it with your right? No, I would I don't really, I'm an ambidextrous pound. Okay, yeah, so I'm left handed. And so if I pound it with my hand, like, I just hit my ring. It wouldn't be. Yeah, I don't, I don't I don't think you have to slap. I don't think you slap.

I think you do the fist. Joy, if you hit a table, would you pound there, would you slap? I think it's the fist. It's the fist. Okay. So then what's weird about how I do this? I don't know. It's like the angle, like the action that you like, you're, I don't know.

Just the way your body moves. I don't know. Man. Did not see it going that direction today. All right. But yeah, that's, so those are some of the things that came out. Zach, I'm curious. Did you know that nearly 75% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about?

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All right. Let's talk about the Seth Wickersham article that dropped today. Always in the booth to talk about Seth Wickersham. And listen, there are, like, there's rumors. There's, like, innuendo on social media. There's reporting. And then there is, like, the level of Seth Wickersham reporting. And it is within the league, like, you are not going to get a more accurate accounting of things.

Yes. And you also have to know how to read between the lines. So I'm going to read. the paragraphs here in this story about why Bill Belichick does not have a job right now that are related to the Eagles. Not since Paul Brown in the 1960s had such a revolutionary head coach been available. Owners and executives, even on teams that didn't have openings, discussed hiring Belichick.

Among them were the Eagles who were coming off a disappointing finish one year after a narrow Super Bowl loss. Owner Jeffrey Lurie and General Manager Howie Roseman, both Belichick fans, still strongly believed in their current head coach, Nick Siriani, who over a stretch went 26 and 5. But Lurie thought it was worth asking a confidant of his about Belichick. A source close to Belichick said the coach would have been interested. Roseman told ESPN he had a conversation with Belichick a check-in to see how the coach was doing

after he was out in New England. A source close to Belichick confirmed there was no talk during the the call about working for the Eagles. Still, there was chatter in league circles that Philadelphia and Belichick could be a match. Despite some owners and executives believing the game had passed Belichick by, the Eagles felt he still had his fastball. He had nearly beaten them in the 2003 season opener with an inferior team. There's also a belief that Belichick will coach only until he gets to 15 more wins,

enough to pass Don Shula as the winningest coach in NFL history, though not seriously considering a move, Lurie wondered to a confidant, was it worth overhauling the building, changing personnel and philosophies on everything from training staff to salary cap structure for someone who might coach only two years? You'll have to start over again, said a source with firsthand knowledge of the Eagles thinking, who would replace him? He hasn't had a good record of developing coaches. They were afraid that he'll have changed everything in every person, and then he'll be starting from scratch again. He didn't demand those changes, but they felt like if we hire him, we have to give everything to him and trust how he does it. So,

Zach, at the time, we talked about this as a possibility. Yes, you were over it. I feel like we framed it basically how it played out. What do you make of the T from Seth Wickersham? Oh, I mean, awesome reporting. The level of detail shows you this, this was not just a thought in their head. Like this was this was high level discussion. I think the fact that that Howley Roseman specifically reached out to him is suggestive that if you had this this narrative that Jeffrey, that Bill wouldn't want to work with Halley, that's not true. Like there is a relationship there. If the, the thought that like this was a no-brainer that Nick Siriani was coming back is obviously not true. Like there was clearly discussion here about not just Bill Belchick's fit, not just

Bill Belchick, his ability as a coach, but what it would look like after he was here, right? To have that. You would not go through that thought exercise if you were not at least considering. Exactly. And so. If you were firmly committed to Nick Siriani, and how could you have been at that time? Well, this is the conversation that we had then was if there's an eight-time, Super Bowl winning coach on the market. Like, and you're not, and, you know, you're in a position where you're unsure what to do with your coach. If you're not having that conversation, you're probably not being totally responsible.

Now, there's a difference between just like thinking about it and then having the level of conversation that Seth and Don and Jeremy outlined in that story. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's pretty, that's pretty eye-opening. And it's, well, it's pretty revealing. But I think that it clearly shows you that Jeffrey Lurie and Howie Roseman hold him in high regard. I know there was a report out there around that time that, like, Lori would never want to work with with Belichick. That's clearly not the case, if they were intrigued enough here. There were reporting or suppositions, like I said, that Belichick wouldn't want to work with Howie.

I don't think that's the case either. I think there's respect between the two of them. so yeah i i do think that's something that that that could have happened and the fact that the eagles are mentioned as a team for next year shows that that that this is something that's that's going to be looming fair or unfair to nixiriani that's the business here bill bellichick is on the market um he's you know someone close to him is saying the eagles the giants and the cowboys it is going to be a lingering storyline this year the audience might not like it some people might not like, if Bill Belichick's out there and he's,

and it's made known that he's interested in the Eagles, then this is going to be a storyline that follows the Eagles this season. I have a slight disagreement about the way that you framed it as Lurie and Howie. I don't think, I do think that this flirtation, as it is characterized, was from Jeffrey and not from Howie. Interesting. Okay. when you're talking about all the things that would have to change,

part of that is the way that the personnel department is run. I don't think that Harry Roseman would want to change that much, and I think Bill Belichick would. Do you think so? I do. I'm not saying that he would want Harry Roseman out, but I think that he would want structural changes to the way that they go about their business.

And like we talk about the like the, the information and the media game among general managers and owners and like the information power brokers, right? And Howard Roseman is as good at this, if not the best in the league, right? He has been doing it as long as anybody. He knows what he's doing.

It's interesting, as you noted, that he told the SBN he had this conversation with Belichick, meaning that he didn't mind that this was out there. And I think part of that reason is because this way it is projected as him and Lurie, but I think that the real flirtation here is and like Lurie's talking to confidants about it you know he's not we might not have the information

that he and Howie were talking about it together but I think if Jeffrey is seriously considering this he knows that by Bill it bringing in Bill Belichick you are bringing in somebody who is threatening Harry Roseman's power in the organization and I think that Harry Roseman probably did not want that And that's why Harry Roseman, as it was as it was reported during the search, was like helping Nick Siriani try to fill out the staff. I think Harry Roseman wanted Nick Siriani to stay in part because Bill Belichick coming in is a threat to what he has built.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, well, look, I would say what you say seems plausible. but my understanding is that like Bill has has actually, I'm going to say my understanding. I'm not talking to Bill Belichick here. Like just what I've heard from talking to different people. I do like the flirting with Bill because like could you imagine a like a less sexy conversation than. Hey, Bill. The radio has been very unfair to me.

I'm curious your views of sexy conversations. We get to that during summer. I know the Belichick, although I know the Belichick saving them. folders what gets you going um i'll say that i've spoken to people this offseason who've who said that like belichick has has actually you know he's he's developed a lot of respect for the way how he's built the team oh i and like i i totally agree that there is a that someone like he would like he would work with with how okay i think that like he's not coming in and being like yeah oh you're i think there's a mutual admiration okay but i also think

Like most things, it's not going to last. And who's going to have the ultimate power in that dynamic? It's going to be Belichick. Well, yeah. And that was well documented in this story. Is that if you hire Belichick. Right. I don't think that Belichick is, is wary of Howie.

I think Howie would be wary of bringing in Bill. Yeah, I mean, look, I also think Howie's legacy chase. I think Howie's legacy chasing too. And I think Hallie wants that second Super Bowl. He knows what that means for him. Sure. If he thought that there was a coach who would help him win that second Super Bowl. That's totally fair point.

I think he's, I think Howley's Hell been on that second Super Bowl. Like, I think that's a big deal. I mean, obviously everyone wants to win the Super Bowl, but, you know, what that means, a two-time of Super Bowl winning GM. And you built, you built two different rosters, like you've done it. You know, you kept hearing what was it the Super Bowl, the stat that came out. Howard Roseman is the first, the first GM.

in like modern history to make the Super Bowl twice in five years with a different coach and a different quarterback. And it's like that's a very specific thing. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. But as was documented in that story, that it's almost naive to think that if you're hiring Bill Belichick, you're just getting like the great coach.

You're also getting what comes with it. And when they talked about you're bringing in, you know, Josh McDaniel and Matt Patricia and Jack Easterby in there. And then how about Bill's quote to Arthur Blank? When Arthur Blank asked him why his guys aren't successful elsewhere, and he said, they're good soldiers, not good generals. But, yeah, as was said about Jeffrey Lurie's concern there, the Eagles' concern, is that what happens afterwards,

I do think the Eagles are very much thinking, like, what does this look like three years from now? What does this look like five years from now? Which is absolutely the right thing to be thinking. Yeah, I do not think that they should have hired Bill Belichick just for the record. I think they came to the right decision. We have that dropping. No, I mean, look, I think Nick's a good coach.

I think Nick, I'm sure to see how Nick does this year. I also think just very funny that part of the reason I think he still has his fastball is because he almost beat them in week one. Yeah, that's like, okay, go sign Byron Maxwell again because he played his best game against you. Yeah, that's a little ridiculous. That's a little ridiculous. Yeah. All right. Let's put that to bed because we've got more to get to.

But we can definitely revisit that this summer. That's an interesting. Okay. Some news on the sporting front, Jonte Porter, Zach, banished from the NBA for his betting on the games. And we have a super chat for Mr. Rudy Poo who says, with the Jonte Porter News, what are the chances that the NFL might now make an example of Isaiah Rogers

in a lifetime ban? No. The degrees here are so different. I mean, John Jay Porter gambled what, like reportedly like over $2 million or something like that?

Like all that like just constantly. But he was betting on his team's games too. Yeah. Yeah. As I said Rogers, it's like a kind of a minor mess up. Also, I do think that how he was asked yesterday

about like, do you need, resolution on Isaiah Rogers from the league before the draft next week. I'm sorry. Isaiah Rogers is a great little lottery ticket that if he turns into something, that's nice. He is not changing anything about what they're doing next week. Good or bad.

Yeah, and I want to make this clear right now. The Eagles are not drafting next week, like purely based on this year's roster and certainly not based on like depth spots on this year's roster, right? So, yeah, that's kind of how I think about. about that. I mean, I do think they're, they're not diminishing the idea of like, Terry and Arnold is on the board, but instead they're going to take Kinsley Sue. I'm going to

because they got Isaiah Rogers and the hopper. Yeah. So I, I really think it comes down to, yeah, they're not going to ignore right guard and corner on next year's team, but they're, drafting the best players. That's that, or the best guys, the guys they think are the best fits. Well, we're going to talk running backs in a minute, but before we do that, it's time to talk about our friends at Olipop. Oliop is a new kind of soda with only two to five grams of sugar and nine grams of fiber per can. Oli Pop is available and online in almost 30,000 retailers nationwide, including the most

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Visit millerlight.com slash pHLY Birds, or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories per 12 ounces. How are you feeling about the game tonight, Zach? I'm excited. I think this, I think the stickers are going to win. I think I'm confident that they need to win. I know

it's kind of like a game six when you're up three, two, right? Because if they lose, they play tomorrow night, but you want to avoid Boston. And so I think they can beat the Knicks in round one. So the Sixers need to win. I think they match up well. I think there's certain things Miami can do to make it difficult for them, but Sixers got the best player in the court. They got the third best player in the court.

I think they win. All week, I thought they were going to win. until last night when I saw on Twitter a tweet from Albert Breer that said the commanders kicked off their mass 30 visit tonight

by taking the draft prospects including Drake May Jaden Daniels, Michael Peanix and J.J. McCarthy to top golf for a casual dinner slash mixer. More than 20 potential draftees in town and they'll all be at the facility tomorrow.

And when I see that that's how Josh Harris is running that football team, I'm sorry. I don't believe that he deserves to win tonight, nor will he lead a team that's going to win tonight. I got to tell you, I don't know Josh Harris personally, although I have been on TV with him before. Oh, yeah, really? Yeah, yeah. I was on a Philly Sports Talk, you know, former Daily News Live in 2012, and he had just taken over the team.

And before a game, I was on the set. It was Michael Barkan, I think it was Bob Cooney, and it was myself and Josh Harris. And yeah. I was talking about. Please, Josh. Tell me your secrets. No, but anyways. I want to be you.

I don't think Josh Harris is like involved in the organization of their top 30 visits. I think you're, I think you're feeling about him is stretching a little too far. If you think that he's stretching. Oh, I disagree. I think that Adam Peters pitched this idea to him and he thought it was the most brilliant thing he's ever. I don't. I think, I actually think what Josh Harris does is he hires people pays them a lot of money. money to run his teams and trust them to run his teams.

There is absolutely no chance that Josh Harris doesn't know that that is their plan for the top 30 visits. He definitely came up in the interview process. It's definitely a thing that Peters had on his mind. It's absolutely something he is aware of. This is his new toy. Yeah, I don't think he's involved in the top 30 visits. But look, you don't think he knows that that's their strategy.

But I don't think he's like pitching them ideas. nor is he's not saying it's his idea he's putting up with that idea. I don't think he's approving it either. I just think he's just like, okay, I hired you, do what you do. That's kind of how he... I don't know.

A real man would have fired Adam Peters for suggesting that. A real man, okay. Real man. Well, here's the beacon of real man. You cannot be the owner of the commanders

and the owner of the Sixers. It's not okay. Okay. Why not? You can't. Boo! Boo you! Stan Crocky's the owner of the Rams and he is the owner of the Nuggets, right?

I mean, yeah, it's a, I don't know. We don't know. We don't get into the match. And he says, we're going to talk about running backs. I'm grumpy as it is because I'm not being able to talk to Brandon Graham right now at the Eagles facility. I understand. I am a, as I said today, I'm a talk show. host in addition to a beat reporter now.

I can't just view it purely in terms of being a big reporter. But yeah, it pains me that Brandon Graham's going to walk into that auditorium. He's going to look to his right and he's going to see a seat that's not filled by me. And still come to grips with it. Do you want to go? No, this is my job. This is my job. Okay.

Yeah, you can't be two places at once. Know that well. Good advice for Josh Harris. Yes, that's true. That's why he hasn't been as many Sixers games this year. All right. Well, also, I think he's living down in Florida as well. Okay. Good local guy.

All right, running back. Tough to look at. All right. Tough to look at it. You are so anti-Josh Harris. Like, did he poison your soup? Like, what's the, uh... Yeah, he poisoned my soup.

Do you know that expression? There was this line I heard growing up when Winston Churchill was at a party. You were there with Winston Churchill at a party? No. When you were growing up? No, I heard about this, this line. And someone says to him, you know, Sir Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your soup. And he said, and if you were my wife, I'd drink it.

This was dinner table conversation for five-year-old Zach? It was like I heard these different Winston Churchill lines. And that was what they were they like blaring on the speakers in your house? What do you mean you heard them? It's talking my grandfather about it, stuff like that. Yeah. Like, yeah. We just like different wits and witticisms from over the years.

Okay. Yeah. Running backs. I did prep work on running backs. We're talking 10 minutes. So did I. When you were watching Jill and Hertz, I was watching Rashina Lee. Okay, Marshall.

Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. All right. Let's talk running back, sec. First, the state of the roster. Yes. This guy, Sequin, Barclays, in town.

Presumably to take the lion's share. of the touches, but Kenny Gainwell is still here. You boy, Tyrion Davis Price. You have a future ticket on to make the pro ball. Do you think the Eagles are running back curious here on day three most likely? Well, it is a spot that they have to fill, right, in terms of like the back end of it. Interestingly, when you talk about day three, I was going through Howard Roseman's draft history of running backs.

And it's actually more like rounds two and four. like he you know Bryce Brown was the only seventh round running back that that they took um and that was a lottery ticket type type pick sure gainwell was a five yeah gainwell was a oh okay gainwell and small well were or five so so six and seven so so when you get to that territory I think they just just rather like undrafted guys they probably there's not a big delta between the undrafted guy and the guy that they would draft sure um but no I certainly think yeah round five it is it is feasible you you want cheap death. Gainwell's going to be a free agent next season or after after this season. You're thinking two years for Berkeley and that second running back could come in this year's class. I don't think it's the one where they need to leave the class with it. I do think there's some

intriguing options there. It's really depending on how that board falls. How do you feel about the let's let's start I guess with the top of the class? Jonathan Brooks from Texas and then a quartet of third round guys, according to Dan Broome. Blake Corum from Michigan, Trey Benson from Florida State, Jalen Wright from Tennessee, and Marshawn Lloyd from Southern Cal. Yeah, I like Brooks.

Now, now, played in a great offense, right, took over her for Bejan Robinson, but you can certainly see it there. A little Miles Sanders connectivity there, the guy who replaced the guy. Yeah, I like that. Good job there. Oh, thanks. He's also young.

Another thing, this is so we talk about positions where the Eagles draft older guys. Running back position where the Eagles historically draft younger guys. The only guy over 22, who they took was Donnell Pumfrey. That did not work out. And for good reason, Zach, you stack up all the positions. The average rookie age, running back is the youngest, exactly 22, which makes sense. You just think about the, like, this is a position where talent can shine easier.

in college, like quicker. There's more incentive to come out because you don't want to waste the miles. Now there is some argument that like recently running backs can make a case for staying to get NIL money because they don't get paid very much in the NFL.

But even if that is true, it hasn't happened yet. That said, this is a very old running back class. Dan Bruegler has five guys on this list who are draftable who are going to be 25 as rookies. Yeah, that's not good. No thanks. Feels like this country is going downhill.

But you look at the 37 running backs in my sample of first time or initial pro bowlers or first team all stars. Only two of them have even been 24 as rookies. And that's David Johnson, who had a reason to do so because he was playing in a small school. And Philip Lindsay, who also had a reason to do so because he was playing in a small school. So a big college guy entering the league that old. is a bit of a bit of a minor red flag. Yeah, that's, that's really good perspective there. So I was, I was going to frame that Blake Corum and Marciaun Lloyd, both older guys,

Marshaun Lloyd, relatively local from Delaware. It's been in for a pre-draft 30 visit with the Eagles. Yeah, I wonder though if it's a pre-draft 30 or if it's a local visit. Yeah, I don't have the answer there, but he is an older guy. But he's a good pass getting back. He'll be 23, Corum will be 24. Of the players you mentioned there in that third round grade from Damon Brueger, Jalen Wright, is the one that I like. Now, I've seen some PFF stuff recently on like the amount of open running lanes that he had, like, yards before contact.

Josh Norris tweeted something last night too. Like basically the way he was used in the offense, there was not a lot to it. Yeah, but he is electric, right? And the timing bears that out. I think he's an electric back that someone Dane Bruehler spoke about. The player that I've been talking about throughout this whole draft process is Braylin Allen from Wisconsin. I remember where I was the first time I watched Braylin Allen play. I was at a burrito place in Denver.

And this was the 2021 Eagle season. And they had the Wisconsin game on. And it was real big running back, like a true freshman. And I saw him take it again. I'm like, oh my goodness, like this guy's a stud. And then I've watched him a number of times. And yeah, he's different. A chicken.

Okay. Yeah. Chicken. It's usually my, I'm not a big like, you know, beef or pork burrito person. I like steak to eat it, but not inside my burrito. I'm just chicken burrito. What about you? Well, I wasn't there.

No, I'm saying when you get a burrito. I mix it up. I like to mix it up. Okay. I'm down for an alpasteur. Yeah. You like cartonidas? Is that the...

That could be on the table. Yeah. I don't even mind a vegetarian. Give me a portobello. Ah, okay. Barrito from Trace Halapenoz on Ath and Christian. Like Trace alpanias. I used to be a COVID go-to for me.

That's where you went to get COVID? No. I ordered in a lot during COVID, and that was one of the places that I ordered in from. Okay. What else you put on your chicken burrito? The word. Was this place Chipotle? Is that...

No, it was... What's the popular place in Denver? There's like a real popular burrito place. I don't know. All right. I will go. If our DMVR, we're going to speak to some of our DMVR crew later.

Best Burrito, Denver. It's like a famous chain there that's really good. Illegal Pete's. Yeah, that's what it was. And it was the one right by the Colorado Rocky Stadium. Took a walk. It did illegal Pete's. Had the game in front of me.

Watched Braylon Allen. And I was like, I mean, dropped your burrito. You were so smitten. He was awesome. So anyways, he does not have testing numbers. But you're talking about someone, 6-1, 235. He's the youngest player in this draft, I believe,

a Braylon Allen. And I think if you're looking for like a big physical running back, he's the kind of guy who jumps out to me. Yeah, so that, that 2021 season that I mentioned. I mean, 1,268 yards. Freshman All-American, 6.8 yards per carry. Yeah, I'm actually curious. Why is it that he is

the sixth ranked running back in this class? Just judging by the profile seems like a guy who would be expected to be higher ranked there. Yeah, I would imagine... Certainly a head of Blake Corum, who is small and old. Yeah, like, probably not considered an explosive

player, but you also don't have the testing numbers. I think sometimes these bigger backs get lumped in with that. I saw him have a number of big plays over his career. I mean, I really like Braylon Allen. The tension for me between the profile

and trusting my eyes, I really like the Jalen Wright profile. Great athlete, good numbers. One thing I always like to look at, and I'll have a piece on all PHOI that includes this, among many other things, with the offensive profiles, is like, the running backs, yards per carry and then you separate out all of the other running backs on the team and like who does a who has a big delta there jalen wright stacks up well there um but i do i do sort of see that like

i don't know that there's a ton to his game like he's super explosive in the open field but i don't see him making a lot of guys miss and i do think that like lashon mccoy has sort of like brain like like poisoned me poisoned my soup if you will uh when it comes to looking at running backs because that's what I want. I want a guy to like aesthetically that is the coolest thing for a running back. As a guy who was going to just make guys miss in the open field in interesting ways. I do not see that with Jalen Wright. The guy who I do see that with who made me, who I really enjoyed watching more and had the most of that make you missability is Marshaun Lloyd

from USC. I really liked that. But he's an older prospect who has never run for a thousand yards in a season. And so they're like on paper. I like Jalen Red a lot more. My eyes tell me I like Marshawn Lord a lot more. Okay. I can see that.

Did you get to watch Will Shipley at all from Clemson? Yeah, I was a little bit unmoved. Okay. You like Will Shipley? Will Shipley, former top recruit, right? He was a five-star guy. I mean, if you follow, I mean, Clemson is one of the big programs in college football,

especially in 2021 when he was coming in. He was a big deal. He was kind of used all around the formation there, good receiver out of the backfield. I was a little disappointed in the year that he had last year. I thought going into the year he was going to be a bigger type of prospect, but I got omitted. I did like him when he was at Clemson,

and I think if you're looking for a rotational back, especially someone who can catch the ball, he's certainly shown that he can do that. For what it's worth, the only of the top 16 running backs here who did not outpace his teammates in yards per carry over the course of his college career, Will Shippling. Oh, Brings College Career Will Shipley.

We got to give a shout out to Vince's guy, Isaac Gerundo. Isaac Arendo. A great athlete at 6 foot 221, 433-40R dash, 41-1-5-inch vertical leap. Great explosive numbers. That's nice for the profile. I do wonder as a guy who's going to be 24 years old, why it is that he wasn't able to break out at Wisconsin. You know, I mean, Braylin Allen was there,

but he didn't really make much happen. And it took a while for him to make something happen. Yeah. I've heard some people who do like these mock drafts and kind of study the day three guys. Really like Dylan Laub from New Hampshire. So I'm at the senior bowl. It's like 24 years old. And the hairline of a much older man.

Yeah, not really sold on a running back that old. But I do have a, I do have my guy though. Chase McClellan? Who? Chase McClellan? No. Okay. Chase McClellan.

Jace McClellan from Alabama. No. Okay. That's your guy? I thought if we're late in the draft, yeah. Okay. He's not a six-round guy, but my guy who I do like a lot, and I would be interested in in maybe the fourth round as a compliment to Sequin Barclay.

That is Audric Estime from Notre Dame. Oh, I like it. Did not run well, but did not run well, 4-6-1. But that is not necessarily that bad at running back. It's not predictive. It's not predictive of running back. 511, 222. So it's a big honking boy.

Outpaced his teammates by 1.3 yards per carry, which is the second best in the class and the best among the actual running backs because Tyrone Tracy from Purdue is the other guy. And I really like the way he runs. Gets extra yards, has a little bit of make you miss for a big fella. Big old hands,

which I think a coach would like that for ball security reasons. Only had one fumble last year. Andrick Estime is my guy of the day three running backs. I can definitely see that. I liked him too. I actually, I liked him before the 40 time,

but I shouldn't put too much on the 40 time when you watch him play. 47-140, which is not fast, of course. I have 4-6-1 here. 461 was the Pro-Day, 4-7-1 was the Combine. 4-6-1 is fine by me. 47-1's the standardized thing. I mean, the pro-day is like the most, I mean, yeah. I'll take 4-6-1.

That's fine. When he was running on the same track as everybody else, he ran a 471. When he's listed in Dan Bruegler's guide, he's 461, that's good enough for me. Right here, combine, 471. Yeah, I know. Look at the old, look at the whole chart, 461. Okay. Now, also, to be fair, the 10-yard split, even for the 40-time, is not as bad.

And so there's explosiveness there. He tested well in the other things, too. And so it's like, it's the long speed, which, you know. Yeah. Look, I am with you on Audraguestimate. I liked him coming out or I liked him at Notre Dame and think he's going to be better than what the, if the draft was in January, if you just went based on what they did in college, I would probably like him a lot more. So I shouldn't let the combine overinflate that. One last running back question.

We talked about the burden of replacing an Eagles legend. Do you think that factors into their Frank Gore Jr. evaluation. Very nice. Frank Gore Jr. from Southern Miss. I knew I know I did I do not believe it does.

Do you? No, I do not either. Okay. Good stuff. All right. This was fun. Sorry. Yeah, sorry.

We did not give you the running back talk that you might have wanted. I believe we got through that. But I can also tell you and we'll get into it more. We're on for like 15, 16 hours on draft weekend. I mean, that. Let's just talk about that for a second. Yeah, we are going to be live here in Studio B on Thursday night for the draft. From the start of the draft to the end of the first round, the whole shebang.

Friday night, the whole second round, and then we'll see if the Eagles have a third round pick or not. But if they do, the whole shebang there. And Saturday, we're going to be live for God knows how long. Yeah. From the fourth round, probably through the end of like the sixth, something like this. So if you're like, I want to. more Bucky Irving talk than trust me when Bucky Irving's got

some shake to him but man is he tiny when when Bucky Irving is relative but when Bucky Irving gets drafted for a human NFL running back for a human NFL running back Bucky Irving when he gets drafted we will give you your five minutes on Bucky Irving Dylan Johnson you like a Dylan Johnson

I mean I like the whole Udub offense like Coach Flynn and I have that in common we were infatuated by what we saw up in the Pacific Northwest and is it Rishin Ali or is it Ali It is Rishin Ali but it's not Rashinaul. No, that's right. That's good.

All right. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.I. Eagles podcast. We will be back. What do you know? Tomorrow at noon. And then Friday, actually one o'clock on Friday

because we're going to be talking to our friend the Danishman himself, Dan Brewer. So that'll do it for this episode of the P.H.O.Y. Eagles podcast for Zach. Welcome back, Julia. New Aunt. Very exciting.

We will talk to you tomorrow. everybody give Julia congratulations in the chat please hold hold let's see it I need to see it I need to see it streaming up okay congratulations Julia people they think they thought I was closed in the show and they already closed the window is that the problem unbelievable I'm going to stay here until I see it on the chat welcome back Julia this is making Zach profoundly uncomfortable. I want to move my car because they might be towing some stuff in our lot so I just want to make sure

that my car's not towed. Now, obviously, I want to hold on for your longer because that would be good content. That would not be. All right,

that'll do it for this episode of the PHL Eagles podcast. Thank you, everybody. We will talk to you tomorrow and as always, we love you.