PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | The Philadelphia Eagles are no longer NFC Champs

Episode Date: January 29, 2024

The Eagles were the defending NFC champions until Sunday, when San Francisco clinched a Super Bowl spot to face Kansas City. Also, we’ll react to the coordinator hires and consider two pivotal January 29ths under Nick Sirianni. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to a Monday edition of the P.H.L.Y. Eagle Show. I am Zach Berman. And this is not Bo Wolf. This is Rich Hoffman, the most versatile person here at PHLY, the author of our outstanding morning newsletter. And we have a lot to discuss today. But before we get into this whole open, I have, Rich, I need to know, you're filling in for Bo C today. What's it like the night before? Are you coming up with bird puns? Are you preparing esoteric jokes? Are you trying to figure out how to make me uncomfortable? Well, what's that process? I feel like Bo has probably spun that when I have sat in your seat and kind of brought up the things you do on a normal basis, Zach. So the answer is no. There's one Zach and there's one Bo, and I am just here to do the best to fill in this hour of time. Well, we're pumped to have you in, and we'll kind of give you a sense at the top of the show what we'll get into. Obviously, the coordinators, the Eagles added Vic Fangio officially on Saturday. and we heard Kellan Moore Saturday night,

Bo and I did a show on Sunday about it. You can check that out. Also, there's a story on all-P-H-L-Y.com, and you have it in your newsletter today. We'll have a reaction to that. And we will look at January 29th. That's January 29th today in Eagles history. Three years ago, Nick Siriani had that press conference,

we all remember. Last year, the Eagles beat the 49ers on that date. But speaking of beating the 49ers on that date, the Eagles are no longer NFC champs. They had that distinction for a year. Now San Francisco holds that distinction after winning yesterday's game and Kansas City is back in the Super Bowl like they always are. It seems four out of five years.

So you watch those games. What was your big takeaway? Well, Zach, I am more of a fan than you are, and it kind of reminded me of the worst conference championship day as a fan that I can remember. And that was 2011 when I was not happy. I was a college student in New York. I was not happy about Eli Manning getting lucky in the playoffs at all times.

And obviously the Patriots were in the first half of their run, but wasn't in love with them either. They had been the only team that had beaten the Eagles in the Super Bowl in my lifetime. So I was rooting for the other two teams yesterday, and it did not go the way I wanted. I thought Kansas City was, to me, probably a little more impressive. That kind of felt like late stage Patriots, Belichick, Brady. and that Lions game

I mean it was first of all it was a crazy game and they just made a lot of mistakes in the second half and I found that to be a bit of a bummer but there's a lot to talk about and I guess I can take solace and one of them has to lose at least in the Super Bowl sure sure I guess we'll start with the NFC

because that's that's most relevant to the Eagles and you watch that game and it seems that the big talk today is Dan Campbell's decisions and specifically the fourth down decisions. And my view on that is this is what got them there, right? And you have to separate the decision from the outcome. There were a few plays there in particular, I think, of the fourth and one,

the past of Josh Reynolds. It was a good play, good play design, and Josh Reynolds drops it. Then there was the fourth and three later in the game where the play just didn't work out the way they wanted. But I don't kill them for that decision. Do you have objection with the way Dan Campbell, manage that game. No, I think it's the old, I think I might butcher this, but the coach Flynn saying, you got to marry the analytics. You can't date them. Can't date them. And look, I'd like, I am probably

the wrong guy to ask about this because like I saw with you at times in 2017 covering that Eagles team, just saw like the belief that Doug Peterson going for it and saying, we are going to be the most aggressive team and just like the confidence that that team had the entire year, just knowing like, hey, this is how we're going to play. Our coach trusts us. And I saw it work. And yeah, in both cases, like, I think the, the one that Josh Reynolds dropped that fort down, I understand the argument. You want to get up three scores? Like, I do understand that. I don't think it was a give me field goal by any means. But in general, like, I like the super aggressive coach. And I think a lot of times when a coach gets conservative or the aggressive call works, it doesn't get scrutinized as much. It doesn't

get as much credit when it works or whenever. So I actually thought the worst thing that Dan Campbell did and Ben Johnson did running it. I agree. I was about to say that's in my notes. That was the thing that got me angry. But look, we can go back to the Super Bowl even last year. Like Nick Sierra County punning on fourth and three. Again, like I'm not even like feeling, I didn't feel that strongly about that decision at the time.

But he punted and what happened? They really didn't get the ball back after it was over. So that's kind of how I feel about it. And I think it was, you know, they got a little bit unlucky, right? If Josh Reynolds catches that ball, if he catches the ball on the next drive, it's a different game. But I think I felt bad for the Lions fans because, like, it felt like they really were dominating the line of scrimmage for a lot of that game. And to lose in that way, it's just, it's tough. Yeah, I feel the same way you did about that running play in particular because it's like, if you look at the risk reward there, the risk there is you essentially lose the game.

Like, you need to recover the onside's kick, even if you score the touchdown. the most important thing, and I thought, actually, Greg Olson did a great job calling the game. He identified it before, exactly, that you need to preserve your timeouts in that situation. And I, that was the play that I would kill them for the most. But as far as, like, game flow, I can understand the argument when you're up 14 in the second half. You go up 17, you make it a three-possession game at that point. my view on it is that Dan Campbell felt they needed touchdowns not field goals that the only way you're winning that game against San Francisco is by getting to 30

and ironically they I mean they got the 30 they still lost but there are just so many things over the course of the game like the Brandon I you catch and that could swing anyway so yeah like I view it that San Francisco even though they have this this great roster I didn't come away thinking they were this juggernaut that can't be stopped. No, I thought their defensive line kind of reminded me of the Eagles a little bit. They're just, they're getting through and making the Super Bowl here. But like their defensive line got dominated for a lot of that game. I thought particularly in the run.

And I'm just generally a guy like I just don't like kicking field goals. Sure. Sure. Fourth and seven to go up, you know, from seven to ten in the middle of the fourth quarter, okay, go kick the field goal. But in general, like, when the Eagles kick a field goal, I come away thinking like, man, I really wish they would have, you know, push. the envelope scored a touchdown. It doesn't always leave a great taste in my mouth, I would say.

Actually, they had a fourth down in the first half at the goal line, basically, where they opted for, I think, the 21-yard field goal. I thought then they could have been aggressive as well. But when you look at it, and we've seen this with the Eagles, we've seen this with other teams, there's this perception that, all right, well, the lines are in the doorstep, like, don't feel, you know, they're going to be back next year. And I heard Campbell say this, and he's right. That was rough. You can't get, like, this might be the closest they get, right? You know, and it's the old Darryl line, and it's not the Darryl Morey line,

but opportunity is not a lengthy visitor, right? Just because they're there this year, like the cards aligned, but I saw it with the Eagles this past season. What expectations, what that does to a team is real, and it changes it every week. Dan Campbell, keeping it real in the post-game. I'm not sure that was the time in place to offer that time. He's absolutely right, by the way. And I respect Dan Campbell as like a culture center and just kind of a, you know, I think he's done a really good job as the CEO.

Biting the knees. Yeah, exactly. Just, yeah, he's a little bit crazy in some aspects. But I think overall he's done a really good job there. But yeah, I'm not sure that was the time as the locker room. There's probably players sobbing. They're sad. They're wondering if they're, you know, even going to be on the team next year.

I might have waited until OTA is to deliver that line. But he's right. And the parallels are there. with last year's Eagles. I mean, the Eagles went one game further, but similarly, the Eagles lost their offensive coordinator last year. We assume Ben Johnson's leaving this year, probably to Washington. And it's just a whole different team.

And like you can look at it, like they have all this young talent, momentum's in their direction, but things can change quickly. And the flip side to that is Kansas City, where things don't seem to change. And Andy Reid's been a part of your life and my life for 25 years now. And how many times did we watch the Eagles when Andy Reid? It was the championship game weekend. Well, I can tell you how many times, five times, right?

And four of them, yeah, did not work out the way the Eagles wanted. Like it ended then. So here they are. And the Chiefs go on this great run on the road here, one last weekend in Buffalo, beating Baltimore. And what stood out to me about that game is they did not play them. But they didn't lose the game. And I hear this often from coaches in the postseason in particular,

and it might be a cliche, but you don't necessarily have to win the game. You just can't lose it. And Baltimore made more losing plays. It was crazy. They just completely lost their composure at a lot of key aspects. And I think, you know, the guy I look at is A. Flowers, right? You know, he has that huge catch and run.

But he gets tackled. And honestly, that was a – Sneed made a couple of great plays on that. The tackle was good. in the first place. And then he taunts the guy. And I am like the biggest anti-taunting penalty guy. Like if it's, you know, if it's borderline.

A ridiculous spot to call it. But you have to call it there. Like you can't, you can't spin the ball, push the guy down. He has to know. Zay Flowers has to know that there. And then to reach over the goal line, like, I get it. Like, you know, it's easy for me to say in hindsight. But it's like if you get tackled there, if you get tackled, you still might score

without that reach, you know, it's first a goal at the one yard line. And it's, you know, I think that's a little bit of composure. Look, he's a young player. He's an awesome player as well, but that killed them. It just felt like their coaching was bad, too. Like, I know this is such a Philadelphia thing, but a lot of people have pointed out. They got away from the run. And, you know, fans are going to love you if you're saying that.

Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm not sure Kellyn Moore is really going to. That's true. We'll get to that. Yeah. Quench the thirst for running the ball more. But, yeah, it just felt like Baltimore, they lost their composure. It's kind of weird to see an Andy team.

They feel like the Patriots, right? You're right. They didn't lose the game. They had about one and a half good quarters. I mean, Baltimore pitched a shutout after half time against them, but Baltimore just did not have that level of composure. I have one question for you, just watching the Chiefs. I do think that defense is really incredible.

And is there like, could there be some similarities with Spags and Vic Fangio, kind of former, very well-respected defensive coaches, had a chance as a head coach, didn't really succeed as a head coach. and I think that's part of the reason the Chiefs are so good. They don't lose Spags because nobody wants to hire him as a head coach for, you know, I guess because he didn't succeed and he's an older guy. But obviously, like when he took over, that defense was the reason they didn't make the Super Bowl the first year. And, you know, they've drafted really well over the past couple years.

I guess watching that game and seeing how far the Chief's defense has come in like two or three years, that gave me a little bit of hope that the Eagles can turn this around. Well, that's a great point. And I would answer that by saying the Eagles would absolutely love if that was the outcome. I mean, Spags won a Super Bowl with the Giants. He's on pace now to win, or he could win his third with the Chiefs. And I saw the in Spags we trust shirts. Like, he is the head coach of that defense.

And that is what, you know, that's what the Eagles are hiring Fangio to be. And so I just think when you look at Steve Spagnolo, he's one of the more underrated assistant coaches in modern NFL history. you can't dismiss how bad that St. St. Stephen's defense was when he ran it, how bad the end of the Giants tenure was. But his high watermarks are exceptional. And what he's done, you pointed out well. Like Kansas City was on the verge a few times there, and they couldn't get through, and then they hire Spags.

And the way Spaggs kind of marries the rush in the cover, the way he utilizes his personnel, The feeling that he has in calling the games, yet the Vic Fangio comparison makes sense in that you have, if I say you have the adult in the room, it kind of makes it sound like Sean Decis, not the adult in the room. But when I say that, what I mean is every situation that they'll encounter, I imagine Vic Fangio has seen it before, right? There's no game that could in essence be too big, although Vic Fangio hasn't led the team to the Super Bowl. But point being, he's been in all these situations. against these quarterbacks. He has this catalog. He has this database, and it's similar to what Steve Spagnolo did.

And I like what you said about the Chiefs being like the Patriots, because you got that feeling really since the opening round of the postseason that the Chiefs will find a way. It's not their best team, but they just, you're right. Like, they're not beating themselves. And they are playing their best offensive football. You know, I know the Ravens shut them down a little bit in the second half. That's also an amazing defense.

Like, you know, them figuring out is, is, It's not that surprising. You know what was surprising and something you probably knew? I was stunned that Todd Pinkston is the Chiefs running backs coach. And the idea... He replaced Greg Lewis, I believe, who went to the Ravens. Was Greg Lewis also the running back coach?

Yeah, Greg Lewis went from wide receivers coach to running backs coach, I believe, with the Chiefs. I just think it's very funny watching Isaiah Pacheco, who is like one of the more unique runners I've ever seen. It's like he's like angry at the ground when he's running. The idea that Todd Pinkston, you know, and by the way, I'm not like Mr. You needed to play the same position to or even need to actually play in the NFL to do a good job as a coach. But it's just funny knowing that Todd Pinkston was one of the least physical players I've ever seen.

And doing a very good job with one of the most physical players. Yeah, like 165 pound Todd Pinkston out there. Yeah, and like the Chiefs, it might be, I think we're at a point in Philadelphia where you just need to have appreciation for what Andy Reid and the Chiefs are doing. like I'm listening to WIP on my way in this morning and I get there's history with the Eagles and Andy Reed. Like I was there at the end of the Andy Reed tenure. I grew up in this area when Andy was there. But what he's doing now, like it's historic.

And I'm not saying Eagles fans need to pull for him. What I am saying is like there needs to be just an appreciation, like a respect for what he's doing. I agree with that. But I also am not like, oh man, the Eagles made a mistake firing in the re. Clearly, it had run its course here. He had had a couple of bad years.

And, like, again, he's one of the greatest coaches of all time. But the reason he's winning all these playoff games is that he also drafted perhaps the best quarterback in the whole time. You know, and obviously he's got a long way to go to actually eclipse Brady's resume. But in terms of talent and accomplishments, it's pretty hard to beat that guy already. And, you know, he might only be halfway down his career at this point. and we have two weeks to discuss the Super Bowl, so we'll get into all the Andy stuff.

We'll get into all the Kelsey stuff, some Taylor Swift stuff. I imagine Bo will want to have, but I did want to give a quick shout-out. Olivier Reiner from the Inquirer was down there and actually spoke to Jason Kelsey. I don't know if you saw this, and Jason Kelsey basically left, you know,

he said that when he watches the Chiefs, like it gives him that taste that, taste that he wants to be involved some way, that whether it's, you know, he hasn't made his decision yet, he says, but he wants to be involved in the organization somehow. But if you did see that, like, did you come away thinking there's a chance here for Jason Kelsey to come back? Well, especially because I don't know what does he want in terms of a role in the organization. Is it just as like an ambassador or, I mean, because. Like chief morale officer?

Yeah, exactly. Which, by the way, he'd probably be awesome. I'm not even criticizing him on that. But I mean, I think the guy who I would compare him to in terms of just like the affection of the Philadelphia fan base and just somebody who's beloved is Doc. And Doc was like actually involved here. Yes, he was. The Super Bowl team. He was a part of the front office. Yeah.

So, and then he eventually decided, okay, I think I'm done with this or whatever, which maybe Kelsey decides as well. But I would give him whatever position he wanted, honestly. Like if he wants to learn the front office, I'm sure how he would hook him up there. Yeah, I wonder if, you know, he's obviously a very emotional guy, Jason Kelsey. So watching the chiefs at like the absolute height and, you know, celebrating a conference championship game, I wonder if, you know, when he goes back to his home in Philadelphia and he thinks about, oh, yeah, I got to go through the training camp practices again. I got to, you know, I got to deal with the nagging injuries the entire year. I got to do all those tush pushes again where I'm at the bottom of the pile and I walk, I walk dazed after it.

So we'll see. You know, I did feel like maybe a little bit of hope and that maybe it isn't decided, but on the other hand, like listening and knowing the reports of what he said in the locker room after the season, I'm also still not that optimistic. Well, perhaps Kellen Moore will change his mind. And before we talk about Kellen Moore, do you have any subscriptions that you want to get rid of that are just kind of like hanging around right now? I just got rid of one yesterday. It was the, it was like the ExpressVPN. You know, just so I think I wanted to watch like an out-of-market six-ers game, and I downloaded it, but I kept it for three months. And so I probably wasted about, you know, 20 bucks with that, I think.

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Just download the Game Time app and use code. V-E-G-A-S-100 for $100 off a big ticket, a big game ticket. So now that we have that covered, let's talk about the news of the weekend. Wait, wait, one more thing on the conference championship games. What do you think of Greg Olson as an announcer? Oh, he's awesome. I mean, I think, and he's losing his seat now because Tom Brady's taking over. But Greg Olson, first off, he does a few things that I like.

as, you know, and I actually don't get to consume the broadcasters as much as, sure, because you're on the road, you're preparing for games, stuff like that. But the Sunday night games and the Monday night games I get more of, but when I hear him, he's entertaining, he has good energy, he gives you insight you don't know, and he's able to tell you not just what happened, but what's going to happen. And I think it's crazy because, you know, the networks just started to pay these former quarterbacks. I think Tony Romo is like $17 million a year. Tom Brady's like 35. I think 37 and a half. I think 10 years, 375 million. And it's, they gave him that money and they

had somebody who's awesome at. Now, I don't know how good Tom Brady's going to be at it, but it's going to have to be, it's going to be a pretty high bar to clear to beat Greg Olson. My point is, I need Greg Olson, like, calling conference championship games. I don't care if that's CBS taking over for Romo who was somehow declined over the past couple years. I don't really understand why that has happened. There's probably a story there. Maybe it's just because he's farther from the game. He was awesome at guessing the plays earlier on. But, I mean, it sucks that Greg Olson is losing his seat.

I agree with you, but my pushback to that would be the people who appreciate exactly what Greg Olson does are going to watch the games anyways. And Tom Brady, in theory, we'll see if it happens in practice. But in theory, we'll draw people to watch a game because he's Tom Brady. That's fair. Well, I imagine Tom Brady is going to produce or broadcast a lot of Eagles games next year. Imagine the Eagles will have big games. And when he's up there, he's talking about his production meetings with Kellynne Moore.

And he's talking about the times he faced this Vic Fangio defense. So Bo and I, as I said, did the show yesterday, thanks to Julia, too, on, it was the emergency show where we kind of broke down the quick reaction to Vic Fangio and to my regrettable Saturday night's sleep. And now here we are Monday. We've had some time to digest. I got to read your newsletter. Also, the news on Vic Fangio is official, even though we discussed it already. The Eagles put out the announcement, had the backdrop, did the Photoshop.

I always like the Photoshop when they put you in the team's gear. What's your big takeaway from the coordinator hires? Number one, I thought that was a pretty good Photoshop. Sometimes those can look bad. You're right. And whoever is working for the Eagles graphics and digital team, nice work by them. did you actually beat yourself up for not catching that fanciano news? Oh, big time.

No, no, no, the, the Kelmore. Yeah, Saturday night, big time, big time. A, I got to be on top of it. And B, I got to be, you know, when it happens, I got to be, I got to be ready to roll. I can't get up at 6 a.m. and see something that happened at 11 a.m. the night before. I'm sorry, 11 p.m. the night before. So, yeah, I did turn to Emily and my wife and say, like, all right, no more I'd feel PM, right? because if I'm in half of a p.m.

I don't hear the phone vibrate. And then I said, if you're up and you see me getting text, you got to wake me up. And then the other part is I got to make sure that I don't miss anything here. So I see Austin say you're allowed to sleep, Zach. You're like Nick Siriani, man. I know this is a common refrain from Bo. We can have the conversation. That's fine, yeah.

I just thought it was hilarious. I mean, as like somebody who was covered a team before, I actually. was having dinner with somebody who covers the Eagles. That person's going to remain nameless before that news leak. But my thought was... Flex? How about that? Yeah, big flex right there. But my thought was, oh, man, poor guy.

They got to go cover this. And it's always like at the worst time. But the 11 p.m. news drop, that was pretty weird. Yeah. I guess it was Howard at 10 or something like that. Yeah, Howard at 10. And then the national guys came in at 11. Yeah, that's tough.

Now this is just really prolific. the pain. But no, I don't know if the Eagles coordinated it to come out at that time. I think it was just, that's when the deal was reached and it came out. But I can tell you some more stories of, you know, I was on a date. I think when the Eagles signed Dennis Dixon and I had the role from that. I was out for drinks when they signed G.J. Kinney, I had to leave for that. I was, I was at the movies when Jason Peters got charged in Louisiana for, or for like some type of racing. Seems like all great things.

Date movies? It seems great. No, but all of those I had to leave. Like, I left. You know, try to explain to a woman that, sorry, the eagle signed Dennis Dixon. And like, you know, I got to go 200. I got to put up 300 words on, you know, this third string quarterback or whatever.

So are you going to be refreshing your Twitter feed at like a 11 p.m. this Saturday, just to make sure. Oh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I promise you that. I mean, I might be sending text out before I go to sleep. Like, you know, I admit before I got married, I actually sent an email to someone in the organization being like, all right, let's hold news off for this weekend. So I can get married and not worry about a practice squad transaction. But, yeah, the Saturday at 11 p.m. news saw it the next morning, texted Bo and Julia back. And we did the show, gave some reaction.

And, I mean... I would be impressed. What movie was it? Do you remember? I don't. It came out in June. It was a comedy. Sure.

Summer comedy. I saw it. The theater doesn't exist anymore. It was the one on Columbus Avenue. Oh, yeah. I love that one. You know, yeah. So I went there and I remember getting the text.

And I think it was... Shout out the Jim Swan, my former editor at The Inquirer. And I had to go, I had to go write a story and get comment on that. So I do remember that well. All right. I will let the sickos look up. Who got signed? Well, no, that was Jason Peters getting charged.

Jason Peters. That was Jason Peters. So somebody looked that up with the box office numbers. I think we can figure it out for that. You probably could figure it out. If you pull out what the movie was, I could tell you exactly what it was. because I do remember if you say the name, it'll come to me. But yeah, Kellynne Moore, Vic Fangio.

You're a big takeaway. And I say this every show, it seems. Make sure you're checking out Rich's newsletter. It's the best in Philly. It's free. It's free. As somebody who's written behind a paywall with you for a long time, it's free. It covers all the events, all the news, gives them some humor in an easy to digest.

manner. And so I give that, that ad, if you will, because you had in there stuff on the coordinator saying, I liked how you broke down the pros and the cons of the Kellan Moore situation. Yeah, I think my general point of view on it, Zach, is just like, as a fan, I thought Kellyn Moore was a pretty good coordinator for the Cowboys. Like, and the Cowboys have been the one team in the NFC East where they've just kind of returned serve, right? Like, the Eagles have had good moments against the Cowboys, and they've had bad moments. They've gotten killed. often in Dallas a lot of the time. I kind of view him as like

a little bit of like the offensive coordinator version of how I view Dan Quinn now. I know Dan Quinn had a rough playoff game, but I don't like it that he's the defensive coordinator for Dallas. He is given the Eagles problems over the years. So I guess that's my main takeaway from it. And, you know, we have seen him. You guys had the stats yesterday.

Like a couple top five DVOA offenses. That's good. Like he clearly, and even in the bad years, like there's been issues, right? There's been injuries. you know, Bo's boy, Ben Danucci, like, I'm not going to kill the offensive coordinator for struggling in that year where Dak gets hurt. Danichi's taking it hard here. I know, yeah.

Some Danucci catching strays right now. So I like the hire. I think what interests me the most, though, is, like, we know Kellyn Moore is going to bring fresh ideas. And Nick talked about, you know, how the offense got stale. I just want to know, like, what the implementation is because it's something you guys alluded to in yesterday's podcast where he's, he's not like a guy who loves to run the ball. Sure. And the Eagles probably, when Nick talked about, you know, like integrating different ideas,

you know, fresh ideas, but also the things that the Eagles do that works. Like I think you correctly pointed out that probably means the running game for the most part, the stuff they're going to keep. And I want to know, like, whose purview is that going to be? Sure. You know, who's the one responsible? Is Nick, like, to get back to the Tim McManus, you know, what would you say? You do your question.

Is this higher because it seems so. passing oriented and it's not a complete departure like a McVe or like a McVeigh-Shann type style of offense or a college guy. Is Nick maybe a little more involved than we thought initially here? Well, he'll be involved, right? I mean, I don't think Nick can be entirely hands-off and the reality is that even if you're bringing in fresh ideas, you're not reinventing football, right? I mean, there's there's things that haven't been in the Eagles offense that will be in their offense now, but it's not a if it's the first time Nick Siriani's ever, you know, seeing motion or, you know,

seeing the middle of the field used, despite what fans might say, right? So, yeah, I, I certainly think he's, he's going to be involved and he's going to be in those meetings, and he's, he's going to be there with the game planning. But I don't think you get a coordinator of Kellan Moore's experience and quality without, you know, without saying you're in charge, right, without handing over the reins. And you bring up a good point about the running offense. And that's where I think Jeff Stoutland is a big deal here, right? I mean, Jeff Stoutland's the run game coordinator. He's in charge of the offensive line.

Those guys, even if Kelsey's not back, you have Lane Johnson, Jordan Mila, Atlanta, Dickerson, right? I mean, you have, you know, there's Cam Jurgens in there. Like, you have experienced guys who are going to listen to Jeff Stoughton. Jeff Stoutland has a commanding presence in that room. So in the organization, I should say. So if you can blend Jeff Stalyn's run concepts, and remember, Jeff Stalyn's work now for Chip Kelly, Doug Peterson, and Nick Siriani in the NFL. Lurie could fire the whole staff. Jeff Stadlin is stag.

Yeah. I mean, he's been a part of terrific run offenses. But before that, he was on Nick Sabin's staff, right? I mean, he's seen as he knows how an effective run offense looks. So I saw, you know, shout out to Dan Oloafsky at ESPN. I saw his tweet yesterday where he said, like, the Eagles are really going to upgrade the passing offense here. What?

Is there a good comment up there? Well, it just says that I, there's a bunch of good comments. I mean, there's a bunch of people guessing the movies. I think Nick said that it was this is the end, which great movie. No. You know what, though? That's a good movie to leave, I think, right away. Like the first 30 minutes of this is the end is like, is perfect.

And then it slows down a little bit. It's still funny in different ways. I think someone said, The internship might have been a – it was probably the internship or the hangover. Yeah. The internship or the hangover or the hangover, actually, which was a good one. Hangover part three. Yeah, you could have left right away. I'm a huge Vince Vaughn fan. Vince Vaughn cracks me up. So, yeah, probably – it was probably the internship. But then, yeah, I'm going to give a shout out to Adam Lefko here. Have you gotten that before? How much you sound like Lefco? No, I haven't. And Adam Lefcoe was in the news last week with his breaking the Doc Rivers, higher. by citing CNN sports, which I'm not sure exists, really. Coy Wire, we'll have an objection there.

Coy Wires, their guy, they have like a one-person staff there, yeah. Well, why don't you just, why don't you just mention him that? I don't know if that's where it came from or not, but yeah, shout out to Lefco. I went to college with Adam. He's a Philly guy, watches the show.

I appreciate Adam. And so that's a good person to have your voice sound like. Totally. I mean, he's like, he's doing really well, right? He's got the TNT game. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so you're going to go from sitting next to me to Sack, which Joya's already laughing. That's a striking visual right there.

I don't know why that's so funny, Julia. Yeah, so just you can feel tall for the next, you know, 40 minutes, and then you can sit next to Shaquille O'Neal. The basketball players are just comically big. You just get used to it when you cover. As opposed to the football players who are. I mean, they're big, too, but like the fact that, like, JJ Redd, is always the guy I bring up. JJ Reddick seems like a short guy when you are accustomed to covering bass.

Well, he's like 6-3. Yeah, exactly. He's beard tall. It's friend, basically. Although, as a consumer of JJ of Reddick's podcast, which is outstanding, I would say, he has negative windspan, which he always likes to tell you. Yes. Yes.

Yes. So, Jalen Carter doesn't have a negative wingspan, though. And I wanted to know real quick, though. Good transition. I like that. Thanks, ma'am. This guy's a pro. How do you think he fits in to the Fangio scheme?

Because that was like, you know, in like, you know, in like, the film nerds and kind of the people who actually know what they're talking about, you know, say that Vic Fangio runs like a 3-4. And, you know, I remember when the Eagles ran a 3-4 under Chip Alley and Bill Davis. It was more like, you know, like stop the run, kind of control a couple different gaps. Where do you think he fits in to this to this Fangio? Yeah, so I'm going to bring up Jim Washburn, who back in 2012, Eagles drafted Fletcher Cox.

And I'm paraphrasing here, but Jim Waspren said, So this guy was, or he said God created him to play in this defense. And then the Eagles make a change the next year. And Jerry Azanero is the defense of line coach. And we asked Jerry about that Jim Washburn comment. And Jerry says, God created Fletcher Cox will play in any defense, right? And I feel the same way about Jay Allen Carter. And the reality is he played in an odd man front when he was at Georgia.

And he was the best player on the field. in the film, you know, if you go back and you watch the 20, 21 Georgia defense, and this isn't me just like giving a buzzline. I've talked to people in that building when they drafted Jordan Davis, and they drafted Nicobi Dean, and I'm asking about them, and they say, actually, the best player on the field was number 88, right? And that was Jalen Carter. So, yeah, there is an adjustment.

Now, it's not as if he's going to be too gaping with Vic Fangio. the expression you hear is a gap in a half. So I think it's going to be a lot of the similar concepts. I think where it affects, it might affect, I think it's going to affect the edge guys even more, right? And in particular, Josh Swett will probably have to stand up a little bit more as a rusher. But I think Jalen Carter can play in any. I think if Jalen Carter doesn't reach his potential in the NFL, it won't be because of scheme. It'll be other factors.

It won't be scheme. makes sense. And it does, I mean, I'm a little lower on Jordan Davis after the second half of this year, but it does seem like he can kind of play his natural nose tackle position. So let me ask you another thing too, because I know people said Sean Desai was like a DeFangio disciple. And he was somebody who was kind of running his concepts and scheme. Do you think it's going to be like a lot different than from what we saw this year under Desai and maybe even under Gannon a little bit? I do I would imagine the communication

will be more buttoned up I would think that the implementation, the installation will just be smoother there were warning signs in training camp that there were going to be some issues with the defense

and I know it's easy for me to say in hindsight it's always easy to say in hindsight but if you go back and you read our practice observations like there was a day when they practiced at the stadium. And Howie Roseman had to go on to the field because there was like... Defense of coordinator, Howie. Yeah, there was

some type of like substitution pattern that was not very, you know, that was not working out. And they went to the stadium for that practice specifically because Nick saw some issues in the preseason game and felt that from a communication perspective, like in terms of getting the plays in, they had some work to do.

And they didn't do that for the offense. I really felt that was motivated by the the defense. So there might have been warning signs there, although I'm going to defend on the side. The bestest defense played all year was with him. The second half of the Miami game was terrific. The Kansas City game, now, it's kind of, it's almost ironic that, like, Valdez Scantling had that game clinching catch when if he catches it against the Eagles, that entire game looks different. But still, you have to go by the results. They played really well against Kansas City. So, but to answer the question, I'm expecting just things to be more buttoned up.

I would imagine personnel-wise, he's going to certainly have more clout, Vic Fangio. If he needs X, I think they're going to supply him with X. I would imagine that this is more comparable to when Jim Schwartz took over than anything else. And Jim Schwartz carried significant sway in that building. Vic Fangio is someone who, his reputation precedes him, and certainly in Philly. There are things he's certainly going to have to work through. I saw a good report today by Albert Breer from Sports Illustrated, who said that communication in the Miami Dolphins defensive room

was not where it needed to be. One thing that Vic did is he didn't want his assistants presenting. All the information had to be funneled to him, and then he had to present it. It was part of like this one voice approach to coaching that is somewhat old school. so I'm curious to see how that evolves. And then I would imagine, too, that he has some say over how his staff looks. I mean, we know they've interviewed for linebackers, coaches.

I'm curious to see what happens with the secondary. But it was kind of a patchwork staff last year, in part because of the timing of the hire. And, you know, in part because I don't know how much sway this I had in putting that staff together. So I would imagine more – I would imagine that there's – there's more kind of cohesiveness on the coaching staff and with the personnel. Totally. And I mean, I was really hard on the coaching this year. I thought they were not well coached at the end of that season, really on either side of the ball.

And you made a good point about the side. Like he had kind of a weird season and that there were about three games. You mentioned the Dolphins game. I thought the second half of that Rams game was terrific, especially as you saw that offense get better and better as the season went on. He also got lit up by Sam Hal pretty good a couple times. So it was a little bit of a boom or bust, but at the end, it was pretty much just bust. So, you know, I agree. I don't think we're going to see guys running into each other next year.

I don't think we're going to see guys confused about what the play call is and the schemes and things like that. So overall, when I look at both hires, I think on paper, it should be a better staff than last year. I'm just interested in how, like, I guess Nick is still the most interesting guy to me, is like, how does he kind of bring all this stuff together? definitely a head coach of the defense type. Maybe not a head coach of the offense type, but somebody who certainly will have a lot of sway in that. How does he bring it all together? Well, the big thing to watch with Nick to that point

is that Nick's coaching for his job this year, right? And I don't think I'm breaking news. Like if they regress, I can't imagine they bring Nick back for year five. So if things don't go well in September, and Nick's the head coach of the team, and he knows his jobs on the line, is that when he says, you know, I need to do what I know,

I need to do what I know works. Now, what you hope for the Eagles, if you're watching this, you're an Eagles fan, like that they get off to a good start, that things are humming, and that they kind of ascend as the season goes. I would just be, I'm fascinated to see what Nick would do

if he's two and four, because if that happens, you probably want to do it your way, I imagine. Yeah. One other thing, and I know this is, you have a couple months to discuss the draft and get in the weeds on that subject. But because this is such a win now team, and these both seem like win now hires, frankly. This is not 2021, Nick Siriani, we're going to, we like the coach, he'll become and we want to see you grow. Do you think that like that affects this draft this season because it's such a win now, such a win now situation where like,

I think, honestly, just looking at how Howie has done it over his career, I would think that they were going to maybe draft the right tackle of the future. Exactly. That type of thing. But because the defense is so deficient in so many spots, does that generally changing? I know you don't want to get too deep. No, I'm happy to answer this.

This is right in my wheelhouse because I can say, I don't want to say definitively, but I can say with a strong degree of confidence, it will not affect their draft plans. I think when Hallie Rosman looks at the drafts that did not work out, it's taking Joe and Rager because they need a wide receiver. And not just any wide receiver. They need an outside wide receiver who can be a big play threat in the offense, right? When they're trying to draft or the other one.

When they're trying to maximize for that year. And you mentioned Justin Jefferson. They thought Justin Jefferson or there were people in that building who thought Justin Jefferson was primarily a slot. And they actually liked Greg Ward in the slot. and they also wanted to play more 12 personnel with Dallas Scottard and Zach Hurts coming back. It's a roundabout way of saying that they did not maximize the team that they had

or that the draft picks that they had. And I did a mock draft last week and I had the Eagles taking a right tackle. I think they'll take a right tackle to replace Lane Johnson if a good one's on the board. And this is a good year for offensive line help. Before we get, is there any last minute thoughts? on the coaches?

No. And as I said, you can check out Rich's newsletter today for some more thoughts. You can check out all-ph-l-y.com, where I have some extended thoughts on Kellynne Moore. You can also listen to our show, our emergency show yesterday, and the good thing is we're on every day, year-round. So we'll have a lot of conversation about Kellynne Moore and Vic Fangio. But let me tell you about bagels and co, okay? because, as I said, on a show last week, and I stand by this,

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Foco always has our back for Philly Sports, and they have yours too. Get the best gear around by using the link in our description for all non-p-sale items. Use the promo code P-H-L-Y-10 for 10% off. So as I said, at the top of the show, this is January 29th. And it's a day that I remember three years ago when Nick Siriani was introduced, and it's a press conference that has often been mocked, but it's one that also kind of has been used as an example of how he's grown since that day and how he can't judge press conferences.

And it was also the day last year when the Eagles won the NFC championship game destroyed. San Francisco, some 49ers fans might tell you that the result was invalidated because Brock Party got hurt, but nonetheless, the Eagles won that game. That was the high watermark of the Sireani era that day. And so I use that as a framing device because if you look at the public sentiment of Nick Siriani on January 29, 2021, and the public sentiment of Nick Siriani on January 29, 2003, if those are two ends of the spectrum,

where are we now? It's been a winding road, Zach. I think we've certainly grown from that, and then we've probably come back down towards that initial level. I would like to say, in preparation for this podcast, I read one article from that podcast, and it was written by yourself,

Okay. Bo and Sheel. How about that? I was impressed by how little stock you put into Siriani's kind of presentation, you know, mumbling over answers and maybe, you know, being a little bit confused and his presentation not being 100% good. Now, I did forget that it was a virtual press conference. I know he was in the auditorium, but for some reason it stuck out to me that the way I remembered

it was not that way. So it was good to go back. So I was impressed that you guys didn't put a ton of stock into that. Sure. He said, you know, give the guy a chance. Let's see what it actually looks like on the field. And I think my main takeaway, Zach, is that it's just crazy how much the expectation has changed in three short years. Like if we would have said in 2021 that after year three, Nick Siriani goes 11 and 6,

and maybe we don't know exactly what happens in the playoffs, I think we would say, okay, it seems like it's trending in the right direction. We don't know what happened in those last two years. but because the team got so good, so fast, this year was unlike really any year I've ever seen, where I think they were 11 and 6, but I also think the fan base and, you know, just reporters in general just judging the season can view it as a pretty big disappointment in a lot of ways and that there are a lot of things they need to get better at. So I guess that's how I view it because, you know, initially we didn't know what we had in Nick Siriani.

I know in January 2021, we didn't know what they had in jail and hurts. Like, Carson Wentz was still on the team at that point. Nick Siriani was getting questions. Like, is he going to be on the roster this year? So it's just been like, I mean, just like an unbelievably news packed three years where, you know, we've kind of gone all over the place here. Yeah, I think you hit it on the head. And it's where expectations really play a role in things.

Because if you think to where, to the state of the franchise on that day, like, man, they had they had cap issues. they had quarterback issues their roster was not particularly good at the skill spots there were a lot of questions on defense and Nick Siriani was an unproven coach he was not the hot candidate Philadelphia was the only

franchise that interviewed him and he wasn't like you know we talk about Shane Steichen and Jonathan Gannon now as guys who've gone on to become head coaches established coordinators. That was not the thought of them then, right? And so they were putting their staff together, but there were so many questions.

And so I understand from like a franchise perspective, the Eagles are obviously much closer to the team that won the NFC championship last year, just when you look at the talent on their roster, right? But if, you know, if this is like public office and there were, you know, surveys of public appropriations, like they do for the president all the time. His rating would be in the toilet.

Yeah. I mean, his rating now would be as close to it was on that first day than any point. And it's fascinating to think because, like you said, 11 wins this year. The NFC championship game, or the Super Bowl last year, won the NFC championship game. And it is, you know, I watch like John Harbaugh. John Harbaugh had a dip. Like, I got an extended dip there. Kyle Shanahan has had years when, like, they've been in the top.

five in the draft like multiple years like that right year after the Super Bowl for him was not as successful as a seagull season exactly and so you kind of look at it like for a team coming off the Super Bowl 11 wins is decent now the path that it took and this

collapse is unprecedented but when you hear the dialogue and like the conversation around Nick Siriani now it's it's a typical for a coach who's one two-thirds of his

games. Yeah, but but I also understand it because I share a lot of those feelings and I was I mean, I was really kind of disgusted with how they played at the end of the year, how they responded to adversity at the end of the year. I guess when you mention like how do we feel now versus 2021 to me it's the same thing for every football team. It's how do you feel about the quarterback? Sure. And I am going to say that I am more positive because Jalen Hertz was a complete unknown. Now, if you think Jalen Hertz's last season was an aberration, you might actually feel worse about this team because they have already paid him and they have to go through the same kind of cap issues again to get rid of him. But I don't know. I just think last year what he showed, we talked about teams to play the Chiefs beat themselves.

Jalen Hertz did not beat himself against his. Yeah, okay, he made one little mistake, but he was a gamer. And leaving that game, I had nothing bad to say about Jalen Hurts. I got to assume that that guy is still, even if it's not ever going to be quite as good as he played last year, I still think there's 95%, 90% of that guy. And I trust his makeup. But I think it's up for debate. You know, like when we talk about the scheme issues, how much of it is, well, that's what Jalen Hertz is comfortable running, right? And, you know, if they go to a more motion-heavy offense, if the Kellan Moore brings these new ideas and these new passing concepts, how is Jalen Hertz going to do with those? Now, I, I, I think he's probably going to do pretty well, but I understand why, you know, when the coach gets brought up, people look at the quarterback, like, do you have a quarterback or not? I think the Eagles do have a quarterback, though, and as sad as I am about how this season ended, I'm still feeling better about them than 2021 for that reason.

Yeah, and the other part, too, is if you think back to 2021, there was a lot of scrutiny on Halle Roseman, right? And Howley had a tremendous offseason in 2021. The Wens Trade turned out to be really good to trade with that. Miami, right, trading back in the draft, getting the future first-round picks, still getting Devante, that was also really good. And then followed that up with just a Sterling offseason two years ago when they get A.J. Brown, they make a handful of other moves. So, yeah, so Howie has proven that he's really good at building a roster, maintaining a roster. That can be a harder

task, but that's not always as effective here. What I like what Howie's done is he's, he's still kind of maximize the opportunity. They have two second round picks this year. And that's what I'm saying. If Howie starts to make short-term decisions, that becomes problematic. But I think Howie's learned, at least in the draft, to try to keep that longer view. And that's how they help navigate out of 2021.

Yeah. I mentioned the piece you guys wrote. I found this section notable. I'm going to read something you wrote. I like this. In January 2021, because it made me laugh. Bo never does this. This is good.

And it was true at the time. And it was just you saying one of the more interesting answers came when discussing how new quarterbacks coach Brian Johnson impressed him during the interview and how the Colts benefited from the immersion of college concepts on their 2028 staff and carried them over to the next two seasons. Siriani said he gives us the ability to take some things from the college game to make our offense a little more difficult to defend. And it's just like how much things have changed in a few years. And by the way, I agree with the sentiment, too, that this is not all Brian Johnson's fault. But it's just crazy to read that from back then and think, like, it probably was true for a little while, right? Like, Brian Johnson deserves some of the credit for what they did, right? And as the quarterback's coach in 2021, his Hertz kind of got his sea legs and they went to more of a run-heavy offense.

And then they, you know, they had a great season in 2022. But it is just kind of crazy how, you know, three years later we're talking about Brian Johnson. And he is the fall guy, fair or not for what was a state? sale offense at the end. That's a good writer over there. Yeah, I agree. Brian Johnson, as I said, I think he's been harnessed and he was harnessed, and I think that's why teams are interviewing Johnson, teams are interviewing Sean Desai. I don't mean this as a shot at Nick, but I think that shows you who the league thinks was kind of at fault for where things went wrong this year, right? So I think that

I think Brian Johnson at his second chance, if he gets a chance to call plays and install his offense, he'll show that creativity that they were talking about on that 2021 date. And then last thing I was thinking, because you also mentioned that they won the NFC championship on January 29th. And I think compared to last season, I think just the big difference I have besides whatever questions you have about Hertz, you just look at the overall roster right now with more skepticism. And that's not a uncommon thing in the NFL, right? If you have the loaded roster, that doesn't last, right? For a million reasons. For, you know, the fact that longevity at a lot of these positions isn't a thing.

And the salary cap gets in the way. And the fact when you have a quarterback, you have to pay him. And that makes it harder. But, like, I watched that Eagles team in 2022. And there were a lot of times you'd watch the games, man. You'd just be like, this is an all-star team out there. And even when they were good this year, and even when I thought their talent was getting them these kind of coin flip wins,

I did not feel like it was an all-star team. Especially on defense. From top to bottom. Yeah. I mean, they were so deficient in their back seven, where you're like, okay, you cannot say that this is the most talented roster. And you look at quarterback, right?

Like, cornerback was one of the strengths of their team last year. You had two guys who were basically pro-ball players. Now we sit here, and I say, all right, well, one of those guys probably can't be on the team this year because he struggled so much. And the other guy is an older player.

Like, he's still fine, but... And then you look at offensive line. You know, if Jason Kelsey retires, does that go from just an incredible strength in something that is just like the Eagles superpower, their cheat code to just pretty good. And I think that also changes things as well.

But I guess my main point on that is that things change quickly in the NFL. They especially change quickly in Philadelphia, both for the good and the bad, because Howie has cleaned up his messes pretty well before. But we have seen over both kind of Super Bowl cycles here that, you know, the talent and the loaded roster, that doesn't always last that long. And as Dan Campbell tells you, it's no given you're getting back. So I like this. This was fun.

How was that framing device? You know, Bo, I threw with the Bo last week. I'm like, I'm thinking of doing this January 29 thing. I didn't know if he thought it was a good idea or not. Real quick, we have a super chat I want to get to. Has Siriani wasted Dallas Goddard, 29 years old? Dallas Goddard did not have the season he needed to have this year. I think that if you look at Dallas Goddard from an age curve,

he's older now than Zach Ertz was when they drafted Dallas Goddard. Selwick was when they drafted Zach Ertz. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Eagles drafted a tight end this year to eventually take over for Goddard, not this year. But I had in the mock draft last week, Chattavian Sanders from Texas.

He's the second best tight end in this draft. But yeah, I don't know if Siriani failed him or Dallas Goddard just didn't step up. But Dallas Goddard didn't have the season they needed to have. And that's another guy where, you know, you felt good about the Eagles. Maybe they didn't have the best tight end in the league. But last year I was like, all right,

they have like a top four or five guy. And like you said, Zach, like Dallas Goddard is 29 years old. and, you know, how long can the Eagles rely on that at this point? So we will be back tomorrow, I believe, with Bo from Mobile, to have some Senior Bull talk. We're working on a time on that once Bo gets situated down in Mobile. Bo, I think we'll have a special show for everyone on Wednesday,

and then Rich is back in the seat on Thursday. Looking forward to that. Until then, this is the P. H.L.Y. Eagles show. Bo would like me to say, I love you. I like to sign off, which is what a PTI always said, which is we'll do better tomorrow. So thank you for watching and we will talk to you tomorrow. Thanks for putting up with me, sicko.