PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - PHLY Eagles Podcast | They’re alive! Philadelphia Eagles coordinators Vic Fangio, Kellen Moore finally meet the media

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Seemingly years after they were first hired, new Eagles coordinators Vic Fangio and Kellen Moore finally spoke to reporters, along with special teams coordinator Michael Clay. Fangio, the grizzled vet, dished on why he expects this to be the final stop of his coaching career. Moore, the cherubic youngster, described the process of putting a new offense together. Zach Berman and Bo Wulf were there to take it all in and tell you what you need to know. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

30 p.m. Bowulf, Zach Berman and Zach, it's the day that you have been waiting for for weeks, months, years even. You finally got to sit there and talk to Vic Fangio and Kellan Moore and Michael Clay. How you feeling? You must be on cloud nine. Yeah, you probably had to hold me back from running up there and giving them hugs, right? It's a nod to a pre-show talk that we had. Zach let it be known that he's anti-hugged. But, no, it was actually, it was really good to hear from them both. We've spoken about Vic Fangio, about Colin Moore, about Michael Clay, not as much, but about Michael Clay.

How wide is the circle of people you are willing to let hug you? A lot of, I mean, how about this? You know, Zach, I started it on football. You took it to the hug. Now we're in the hug. Let's return to the hug. I'm sorry, we're here now. You took us here.

That's matured you. You diverted us. I'm not anti-hug. I'm anti-unnecessary. hug. If you see someone for the first time in a while, hug. If you see someone like, if, I was using the example, if you went to school with someone on a Friday, and then you went out on a Friday night and they were there. You don't have to give them a hug when you saw them. You literally saw them four hours ago. That's besides the point, okay?

Big, big celebration this weekend of your high school baseball team, a 20 year anniversary. People coming in, stay champions, driving in, driving down from Portland, Maine. You're going to be hugging those guys? Well, I mean, handshake, pro hug maybe. Okay. That's it. I mean, some of them are watching. They need to know the rules of engagement.

Are they allowed to come in for a hug with you? Yes, of course. Guys you haven't seen in a long time. Yeah, that would merit a hug. Okay. Yeah. When I see you in the office every day, I don't come give you a hug. That's my time.

I'm also not trying to give you a hug. That's my point. That's my only point is the unnecessary. hugs. Anyways, let's please get the football here. This is the thing. Yesterday, we had Jamie on, we talked to Trevor Kagan, we had Baldy. It was a football show. Football guys here to talk about football. You're

back and all of a sudden we're off track. Yeah. Go figure. What are the big plans with the boys this weekend? Let's circle back to that at the end of the show. Let's talk about the coordinators. This is a big day for the Eagles today. The big plans are our teams being honored 20 years ago. We won the state championship we were number 10 in the country by USA today uh and our team's being honored for

the 20 year anniversary burning uh pictures of Matt Ryan and Effigy no not I mean I have no issue with Matt we we we beat them course yeah but that was that was the team 21 years ago that was my junior year oh yeah so anyways let's get to the topic I hand Vic Fangio tell them more we've been discussing them throughout this off season if you remember of that high school baseball team watching or listening to the show right now hit us up with Hashtag I will hug Zach or hashtag I will not hug Zach and let us know what he needs to expect. All right. Vic Fangio, Kellan Moore.

We've been waiting to talk to them. And it was actually great hearing Vic Fangio in particular. I thought he was there playing ball. No pun intended or perhaps pun intended. But Kellan Moore. Only you can decide whether he was intended or not. Sure. And then Michael Clay, I've been eager to hear from Michael Clay about the kickoffs, the change in the kickoff rules.

So there's a lot that they got into today. And so, yeah, this is going to be a fun show. Sorry that it's a few hours later, but it's better that we do this after they speak than before they speak. Let's just keep the schedule conversation very brief here. Also, tomorrow's show 130, a very exciting show. We're going to be joined by the professor himself, Dane is, and one of his former students who may or may not have been an all pro.

one of the best players in the past 20 years in Eagles history looking forward to that we'll get forward uh you get very excited for that for tomorrow's show 1 30 okay back to the business at hand Zach let's start with Vic Fangio as you says sort of the main event and they started off with with Vic Fangio rambles up in his you know sweatpants and sweatshirt looking like a high school gym teacher from 1978 and he was uh sort of characteristically brisk and uh matter of in a very refreshing way, I thought. Yes. I like how direct he is.

You ask him a direct question. He gives you a direct answer. He doesn't beat around the bush. I appreciate that and a coach very much. I found him funny at times. He got up there and he said, you know, who's kicking it off? I could filibuster with an opening statement. And then he said, he made a joke about the Phillies.

he talked about why he's here. He's here because he started his career across the street, what, 30 or 40 years ago. Yep, 84, right? So 40 years ago. And this is a good way to round it out. He thinks, he hopes this is his last job. He expects this is his last job. He expects job. Still hangs out at the stadium.

What did you make of that? Yeah, that's what I expected too. I think that was part of him coming here was, was, was, and he can plant roots here, if you will, or he, I mean, he's an older guy. Like, he can coach here until he's done coaching. And it made sense when they made that higher. He has autonomy. It's a lot of respect in the organization.

I know you want to get into it. If it was up to him, he would have been here last year. It certainly sounds like Porsche on the side again and again. Yeah, Porsche on the side is right. But, well, let's talk about this because I think it was interesting and you talk about refreshing like for him to not beat around the bush here yeah um and i think there are other head coaches or coordinators or general managers who might have uh sort of skirted around this and he was asked directly like you know if the timing had been different with jonathan cannon

leaving in following the 2020 season would you have been here and i and he said i think what did he say exactly i think it's a fair assumption that's a fair assumption that's a fair assumption so it's nice to get that uh off let let's just get that off get it to the side we don't have to worry about that that is the truth we have talked about that for a very long time and i think that that's part of the reason why he's here now anyway like is because this is where he wanted to be he talked about his family you know his daughter is two hours away his mom is two hours away it's all sort of makes sense yeah he even said that he he left miami to come here right that that so when the eagles made the the coaching changes at the end of the year and they had that press conference and like

the fangio news came out it was it was it was it was it was it was it was fait accompli at that point like This was all in the cars for Fangio to come here to be the defensive coordinator. He said, now, there were things that happened in Miami that kind of led to his exit. But he had his eye on this job. Like, he made that clear that he left Miami to come here. And yeah, his, I believe his children are in Baltimore. So right down the road, right down 95 that way. Has he done?

Yep. His mother is up in like the Wilkesboro area, although Dunmore. shout out to Connor or he would correct us Dunmore which is that way two for two it's taking me eight plus months and finally get your cardinal directions

yeah I'm finding out my cardinal directions right and he just hasn't he grew up loving the Philly teams he could talk about the Phillies ad nauseum it sounds like he's not happy with the way that Nick Castellanos is swinging the bat right now he said that

he was using the comparison that one game in baseball, you know, before the Eagle, I'm sorry, one game in football is the equivalent of 10 games in baseball before they made this,

he changed to 17 games. But he's like, so if you go on a two-game losing streak, it's like a 20-game losing streak in baseball. So he's like, in baseball, you can be patient

with Nkassiano. So that wouldn't happen here. And he's like, and that wouldn't happen in the playoffs either. So, yeah, he's tuned in. He said, he asked us not to give them a hard time about losing yesterday.

He said, yeah, you probably didn't give them a hard time. And Jimmy, like, kind of very funnily, it was like, oh, we don't cover it. We don't ride around the baseball team. Yes. Yeah. So that's, but, no, it was great here. It was like Jimmy took offense to that.

Yeah. That was a funny back and forth. Yeah. Yeah, that is true. Yeah. Vic didn't have a comeback for that. She's just like, yeah. Next question.

But no, this, he, he, he, he, does have great affection for this area. And that's something that if you're kind of drawing up, like an Eagles defensive coordinator, one of the things you would probably want from like the fan base perspective is someone who appreciates like defensive football in Philadelphia. And Vic Fangio, now he might not coach the way Buddy Ryan did or coached the way Jim Johnson did.

But he does have great affection for this market for this. He wants to live here. He wants to be here. While we're kind of talking about the administrative stuff of this, he spoke about the 20-22 season when he said he wasn't here every week. It was like 95% offense. It was Julia cracking a beer again. It's been a long day. Ice cold Miller, like.

Suck one back with your friends, Julia. So, yeah, so it was good having him fine. He's been behind the curtain. and finally bring him to the forefront. And then they should put Fangio out there. He's a big figure on this team. And it's always great to hear from him. I don't know that.

This has only been one time. Well, I've heard him. Who's to say? I've done conference calls with him in the past. I've done combine press conferences with him in the past. I find him the scouting report of him is accurate. Ask direct questions. He'll give you direct answers.

And like I said, I appreciate that. And I think it's going to be. Tuesdays are going to be fun this year, hearing from Vic. Before we get on to some of the other interesting things, he said, just one last time on the Gannon thing. Yes. Does it change the way that you feel about how that all went down at all,

just to have him be so upfront about it? Oh, I knew that. Well, I know you do that, but. And we talked about that. Yeah, I think Jonathan should have alerted the Eagles about Arizona's interest because the Eagles were operating under the present. assumption when the Houston job got filled by Domeko Ryans and that Jonathan Gannon was coming back.

The only jobs left at that point were Indianapolis and Arizona. Indianapolis had not interviewed him. Arizona had not interviewed him, right? So it's super, it's the Eagles just won the NFC championship game. The assumption is that he's coming back. The Eagles can operate accordingly. Now, the Arizona job, like I said, I don't think that distracted Ganon from the Super Bowl, Gannon spoke to Arizona less that week than like he did with the Colts that

week. But what it did is it hurt the Eagles' plans for replacing him because the Eagles weren't clued in on it. Had the Eagles been clued in on it, they could include Fangio in on it. And Fangio could have held off on signing that contract in Miami to wait for resolution with Gannon. And in an impossible hypothetical to answer, but I'm going to throw it at you anyway, how different do you think last year would have turned out

with the exact same personnel had Vic Fangio been the defensive coordinator? It's a great question. Great question because I haven't, I've thought about it but not, I thought about what might have been different, but not if the season would have been different. And I think it would have been different for two reasons.

First off, I think this is a much better situation for a Vic Fangier to step into than last year would have been. But first off, they would have been more patient, right? definitely wouldn't have pulled the plug on McFandia. Definitely not. I mean, he might have pulled the plug on them. So, point being, like, there was...

Patricia wouldn't have been in the building. Yeah. I'm not saying the Eagles would have been better during the last month of the... Or would have been dramatically different during the last month of the season had they kept the sigh. But they basically brought in, you know, they made a ridiculous change.

And everyone in the building was kind of confused about what was going on on defense. Had they kept the sigh, they might have had some communication issues but I still think they could have been like fine during the back, during the last. I mean, they literally could not have been worse. Exactly. That's my point. So, yeah, so they definitely wouldn't have done that.

And I think Fangio, I don't want to play into this narrative, although it is something that I've heard that, like, the side didn't kind of have the respect of everyone in the room at times, right? But Fangio probably commands that respect. And even in Miami, when there was reports, of him like rubbing people the wrong way, if you will. It's not like the players aren't, aren't listening to him per se, right? I mean, am I think there was some characterization that maybe some guys in the secondary were freelancing a little bit, but I could be wrong.

We're like that, yeah. So look, Vic Fangio comes with Gravitas. And so it could have been different in that regard. And the last thing is he was really didn't do much as far as veteran defensive help last year, right? I know they drafted Jalen Carter. They drafted Nolan Smith. But after they lose C.J. Garner Johnson, they don't do much. I mean, they signed

to Row Edmonds. Linebackers, they kind of waited until training camp. With Vic Fangio here last year, perhaps his thumb is on the scale a little bit more than the size would have been. And they could have had perhaps better defensive personnel a year ago. Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of reasons why the defense was due for regression last year.

No matter who the defensive coordinator was, I think it would be impossible not to think that the defense would have been a little bit better with Vic Fangio at the helm but I think that there's no doubt that coming off of instead of having to step in for a defense that went to the Super Bowl and set the franchise record in sacks to now come in for a defense that kind of stunk and you were supposed to be the savior and now you get to come in like and the personnel is a lot better than it than it was last year in most places. Although I guess we could sort of argue that. I think the front four, the front seven even, well, certainly the defensive line is not as good as it was last year on paper.

The secondary is a lot better. Anyway, I think that the general take is that, like, he is much better set up for success. Plus, like, all of the, you know, you played till the end of the season. You had less time. Like, there's all this regression that's baked in anyway. So, like, Vic Fangio is set up well. We will see how it turns out. And then the last thing, too, with that is the schedule comes out Wednesday, of course.

But the Eagles aren't going to face this gauntlet of quarterbacks that they faced a year ago either. And that factored into it as well. Yeah, good point. It's a little bit peachy for him. Sure. Okay. All right. Some other things that he said that caught our attention, Zach.

I think from a coaching philosophy standpoint, the, and this is sort of characteristic, like you would think like this is an old cantanktankerous head coach and he sort of played to script there talking about how players these days, maybe we don't expect enough of them. Like they're willing to work hard. They want to be coached hard. but not everybody on the outside is willing to give that to him. So like that's what he's here to do is to coach them hard. I thought that was interesting.

Yes. I mean, you know, whenever you hear different coaching philosophies and coaching theories, and I think take it a step further because I think you summarized it well is to see how this meshes with Nick Siriani. You know, he was kind of lamenting load management in the NBA when literally that's what the Eagles do, during training camp is they load managed more than any team in the NFL. And so it's interesting to see now the Eagles.

I do think that's a fascinating dynamic. And I asked them about it at the end. And he sort of no-souled that was like, you know, you've got Nick Siriani, who's like Mr. Pep over here and like all about players, players, players. We know that he has an angry side and he's tough on the coaches, right? But then you've got Vic Fangio who's like a total opposite. Like, how do those guys mesh? It's like, we're fine.

Football coaches. Yeah. So the Eagles do have a different schedule this year. And we'll kind of get into that as the offseason progress or has training camp nears. But it is worthwhile noting that Vic Fangio very much believes, like these players need to be pushed. And I think that is where Nick and Vic, Nick and Vic are similar in that Nick is not afraid to be confrontational. It's not afraid to push players. And there's that scene that is memorable to me, at least in the Eagles Commanders game in 2021,

the game that was pushed back because of COVID, right? And or preceded Nick having COVID. Right. Yeah. And Nick and J.1 Hertz are like screaming at it or Nick screaming at J.1 Hertz on the sideline, very animated way. And then J.1 goes on and has a great game. And J.O.N says, I want to be coached hard.

like we're both coach's sons. We understand how this works. It's like Kellen Moore, by the way. We'll get to that. That seemed like an interesting thread. Yeah. So I think Nick, Nick does believe in kind of in pushing and being tough. But Nick also very much adheres or acquiesces to the idea of like this is what the training staff says.

This is this is the way to practice. And Vic Fangio, I didn't get the impression that he. totally believes in that part of it. I also think Nick is told to an acquiesce to what is what is told to him from the sports science department. I think that's part of the deal here. Exactly. Yeah.

So I think there are probably some things where they may move the needle a little bit, maybe like the kinds of things they do during the offseason in the spring and maybe a little bit during training camp. But I think generally speaking, you're not going to see, you know, you're not going to see the Eagles out there having a like the toughest training camp you ever seen. It's worth monitoring. There you go. All right. We'll get to more of what Vic Fangio said. but first let me tell you about our friends at Rocket Money because I'm a Rocket Money user myself

and it has saved me a lot of money. You know, Zach, unfortunately, got something you're going to have to pay for over the next week or so. I know you're bemoaning that. Yes. Tough break for you. I know. But the good news is, you know, think of the money that you have saved from all the subscriptions that you might have had that you no longer have to pay for.

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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash p.hLY. That's rocketmoney.com slash p.hLY, rocketmoney.com slash p.hL. Coaching my son's baseball team this year and at the game the other day and every minute I hear sneeze to my left, sneeze to my right.

And it's very clear. This is allergy season. Because allergy symptoms usually appear after exposure to allergy triggers. symptoms which may seem similar to cultic symptoms include the itchy red and swollen or the watery eyes sneezing, nasal congestion and runny nose,

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and it's beautiful outside some of these days. So when you're out there, you can go to your local right aid for over-the-counter options, such as a nasal rinse. But there are times when the over-the-counter options don't necessarily do enough, and that's when you can see your pharmacist.

And the right-aid pharmacist will have recommendations on ways to get relief during the allergy season. Visit your local right-aid today. Stock up on allergy relief or catch up on immunizations for RSV, shingles, and more. Walk in or schedule a vaccine appointment at right-aid.com. The, like the pollen count's so high right now that my wife who has never really had allergies,

is like has allergies affected by them now. And she, you know, she's not listening to the show enough because she went to CVS the other day. Oh, we're a right aid store. They were like a person to help her. Like the section was sequestered off.

I'm like, I'm sorry. You got to go to right aid. What are we doing? Seriously. Come on. We're a right age show. Yeah. Gotta watch the show more.

I'm not getting in the way. I'm not getting in between you guys on that one. Honestly, she does not need to watch the show more. I think she, yeah, we have a super chat here. Well, I was going to wait until we got to the Kellynmore discussion. Oh, okay. All right. Sorry, I actually can't read that.

So we'll, now I can. But we'll get to that to Kellynne Moore discussion. More Vic Fangio. You can't read? That's an odd thing for a writer. I can't read from here that the small text on the screen. Got it. Can you read that?

I can. Okay. When Julia puts it bigger, I can read that. So yeah, I'm sorry. I got to get my eyes checked again. It's okay. After you go to the tire store.

I got LASIC back in 2012. And it's starting to wear off, I think. Oh. Yeah. It's too bad. It's too bad because I can't read the screen. That's why sometimes I have the show in front of me here. Okay.

It might be Howie Rosebin with the bespeckled or bespectacle. Yeah, finally busted them out on like day three it looked like. Let's talk about a few specific personnel. things that Vic Fangio talked about. You asked him specifically about the linebacker position and the guys they have. What did he say? Yeah, I'm curious if he has the personnel to succeed in this scheme because as we've discussed, he's had great linebackers in the past. And he said what makes his scheme work is good players, right? And so he said that there's not really a linebacker yet who you say like that's the Eagles linebacker, which is interesting. He made it seem like it's very much open there. The first name he mentioned was Zach And he had the most to say about Zach Bonn, where he said that they think he can be like an offball linebacker. And this is interesting in the context of he also said, he was asked about like his level of influence on the guys they signed in free agency and drafted. And he did downplay that.

And so I don't fully buy that. I think just because he was honest about the game. The thing doesn't mean he's honest about this. He said like he told how he what he thought and how he went and did what he did. But we do know that Zach Bond was a. guy that Vic Fangio did like. Yes. And like drew the Andrew Van Ginkle comparison to.

Exactly. And so it was just, it was interesting sequentially that the first name that comes to mind for him is Zach Bond. He said, Devin White has had success in the past. Didn't have that last year. They're trying to get that back. Honest about how coming up a down year. Nicoby Dean's coming off injury.

So they're trying to figure that out. And he asked like who else would be in that man. He asked for your help for who else is on the roster. Yeah, Trotter and Orrin Burke's and Van Sumer. He didn't mention Van Sumer in though. No, I kept my mention twice. He may not know who that is. He had the roster in front of it too.

Yeah, he gets. But no, so it's very much apparent here, very apparent, that linebackers are position they're still figuring out. Now, I'm expecting it to be Devin White and Nicopi Dean. But of all the positions on the roster, I are on, like, if you had asked how he rose from that question, he would have started with the Kobe Dean. Yes, for sure.

For sure, exactly. And so that's why it's worth asking Vic that question because I think it's going to be Vick's decision, right? I mean, there's other things that are not. He decides who's on the field, yeah. Exactly. So I think that's going to be a competition this summer. And I thought Zach Bonn is going to be more of an edge rusher for them.

But I think the inside, outside, versatility they might like. Yeah, I will say, relative to Nick Siriani not starting his right guard answer with Tyler Steen at the owners meeting. We're not mentioning Tylerstein. Not mentioning Tylerstein. I would take a little bit less meaning from this for one because Vic is new here. He's still getting to know the personnel for two. Not that it's an age thing, but this is like the last coaching stop of his career, as he has said.

You really are an ageist. There was another thing. Young prospects and young. I asked him later about the coaching staff and he couldn't. He was still trying to remember the names of the guys. I think it's just hard for him off the top of his head to come up with a list of guys. And so, like, it's just, it's, it's not as easy coming to his, coming from his brain to his mouth on that one. So I think the fact that he mentioned Zach Bonn first does not mean that Zach Bonn's going to be the week one off ball linebacker.

I agree with that. Yeah. I agree with that. I just thought it was interesting that Zach Bond was. Oh, I agree. If you asked me the offball linebacker mix. Because he was also specific about saying when you say linebacker, I take that to me in middle lineback. Exactly.

Yes. And so if you had asked me before the press conference about the linebacker mix, I would have thought it was. I would have thought Bonn was more of an edge rusher for them, was more in that Van Ginkle role. And the fact that he started with, with Bonn, and he specifically mentioned that they think he can play inside linebacker, shows me that that is a way they're going to use them. So I thought that was interesting.

A lot of questions about edge rusher's dropping. And when he was talking about Bryce Huff and he said, you know, he needs to kind of work on or develop with the run and then on the occasions that he drops. And I asked him specifically about that. And he said the line back or the edge rushers will drop on occasions. Yes. Like he,

there is very clear about that. And his history shows that. Now, what I'm interested to see is, which edge rushers, like, is Josh Sweat going to drop? Right?

Is Brandy Graham going to drop? Or is it going to be a specific, is it going to be the, the non-smith, Bryce Huff? Are the dropers and the, well, if it's always the same person, then that's,

not effective. True. If the offense knows who's dropping, then it doesn't merely matter. Yeah. I mean, everybody has to be able to drop. Do you want a 260 pound Josh sweat dropping?

They got to be able to do it, you know? Yeah. Three snaps a game. Something like that. The whole point of the defense, right? Well, if it's just Nolan Smith, then there's no surprise to that.

True. I mean, it's like the whole thing that happened down the stretch where the offense gets to dictate what's going. Like they have to, they're forcing Hassan Redick to drop. Like, yes.

By the way that they're lined up. up. And so if that's how you're playing defense, you're playing, you're playing short-handed. But you're trying to maximize the skills of your players as well. Sure. So that's, that's my point. So you don't want to put certain players in a position that's, that's not maximizing what they can do. Now, if, like, I think Nolan Smith is able to go in the space, Zach Bond's able to go in the space. Bryce Huff, perhaps, is able to go in the space better than Josh Sweat and Brandon Graham, is my point. What did he say, you know, he was asked about versatility?

specifically, I guess I'm reading a little bit into this, but with Cooper DeGine, he was talking about the way to teach players multiple positions. What was his philosophy there? He said you have to start at one position, right? Primary position. Yeah, primary position. But he said it's something that,

that, like, has a function in his defense, essentially, right? Yes. Yeah. So someone liked it, like the gene. If a player can do multiple things, they'll find a way to make them do multiple things. but he was clear that you don't kind of overload at the start. You start them at a primary position.

What do you think Cooper DeGine's primary position will be? I think Cooper DeGine's primary position is going to be, I think, like, corner, slot, corner. I don't think safety. I keep hearing safety. Well, between court. Yeah, I mean, between corner and slot. Yeah, but I think actually, I think it will be slot.

I think so. I kind of think so, too. Yeah. I think that they have, I mean, I'm assuming Bradbury's not on the roster, So I think they're going to have three guys who can play on the outside that they're comfortable with Slay, Mitchell, Ringo. And then you can put Ricks in there as your fourth. But your second round pick to Gene,

I don't think it benefits to Gene being like the fourth cornerback when I think he can be the first guy in the slot. Right. So. Okay. Last thing, what did he say about his perspective on like everything Sean Desai went through last year? Yeah. Not a whole lot.

Well, he said anytime it goes bad like it did, usually everybody has their fingerprints on it. It's not just one thing or one person. And he was asked like, like, right inside baseball here about this is the, this is now the point of the podcast where the email has come through from the Eagles PR department with the official transcript of the press conference. So now we can actually read the precise quotes. Yeah. And so he was, he was asked the version of a question of like adapting game to game like the Eagles did last year. And he's basically saying, you're basically saying they played bad. You have to figure out how to make it work, right?

And so he also said that like last year there was a lot of stuff going on. They were not, they did not play well. But he said you always kind of go back to like your simple terms when things aren't going well. Got it. Yeah. No, no like, boy, they really screwed my boy over there. No. Or anything like that.

No. Quinia Mitchell, he said he has good movement, good size for a corner. He's going to have to adapt to the NFL game covering NFL receivers, NFL schemes. There's a lot to learn. I asked about Jalen Carter because, look, I don't want to give Jaylon Carter the Fletcher Cox treatment, but. I do. I want to come on the show once a week. That's true.

Yeah. Absolutely. But to kind of be like a bit of like an Eagles historian, I don't like when I say that. As someone who's. I hope you like when you say you're going to be saying it a lot over the next few months. Who's covered the team for some time here. I remember specifically when they hired Jim Schroenner. Schwartz as defensive coordinator. So 2016. And a big point of emphasis was that we're building

around Fletcher Cox and we have a defense here that is going to maximize Fletcher Cox. Like that was the message. I remember him specifically saying, you know, and Domiton Su and Marcel Darius and he was going through. He's like, this is a system that Albert Hainsworth. This is a system that can get the most out of these players. Like I know how to use a guy like Fletcher Cox and Howley-Rosman. even said then that like our building block is fletcher cox and so the reason i brought that up with with with with fan geo is because there's a lot of important guys on on defense i think it's fair to say that gillen carter's like if everything goes well is the centerpiece of the defense i think that's probably fair yeah top 10 pick um taking you know taking over for fletcher cox essentially and i said how

do you plan to maximize Yon Carter in your defense? So that's why I asked the question in that way. And he said, I think he's talented enough that no matter what we do with him, we'll be maximizing him. He's got to get in great shape, which I think is off to a great start here, so we can play him a lot. So the snaps are going to be high based on that. And I mean, he really didn't give much there. But I am curious to see because if you told me last year, like, or if we talked this time last year, which we did. I would have said Hassan Reddix, like the centerpiece of this defense. I don't think

Bryce Huff or Josh Swet or Nolan Smith is like the focal point of the front seven. I think it's... I think the expectation is that Jalen Carter will be the best player on the defense. Exactly. I think that's fair. And so that's why things need to planning needs to start around Jalen Carter

in that regard. And he's the one who I think opposing offensive coordinators are going to circle. They use the Fletcher Cox analogy. Jim Schwartz said every game plan starts with 91 for the other team. So I'm very curious to see how that works out. All right. After we talked to Vic Fangio,

we heard from the baby-faced coordinator himself, Kellen Moore. What did you learn from the former Cowboys and Chargers play caller? Well, I didn't put this together real quick. I received a response when I put a picture up on Twitter. Okay. Are you sure that's not Bo Wolf? Have you gotten Kellynne Moore

Bo Wolf comparisons? No, but didn't I say the thing about like he looks a little bit? Who did I say looks like a mix between me and Joe Dolan? Was it Kellyn Moore? It might have been. He also looks a little bit like Hayden Winks from Underdog, I feel like.

Okay, I can see that. Yeah, kind of a bit of a doier face than Hayden Wings. Sheesh. He's real. He's got a very cherubic face. It's like, don't you think? Yeah, I mean, this guy was a hystantrophic candidate.

What is that connected to about anything? Fair enough. Fair enough. So anyways, the big thing with Kellmore is blending. That's the, this is supposed to be a blended offense this offseason. It's going to blend. Do you ever use a blender? Oh, yeah.

Quite a bit. But like a big, a big old, like honkin blender? Or are you using one of those like a magic bullet situation? No, for our wedding. eight years ago, we got a good blender that I still use. The problem is I'm not a great blender cleaner. Okay. And so sometimes, you know, so I'm making my smoothies and I will like wash and rinse and what.

But then you get like the strawberry seeds attached to the sides of it. and my my wife emily she's she's she's she's fictitious and she's uh she like wants everything spotless and so uh she would we would have fights over like the not fights but like arguments over knock down drag out arguments over like the way i left the blender you know so i've probably used the blender less in recent years because it's like i just don't want to mess with that anymore but um but yeah there was a point in time when i was That was a smoothie a day guy. I'm looking at,

we got Hayden Winks here and Kellen Moore. Julia, I don't want to give you extra work here, but if you pull up Zach's photo from, from Kellen Moore from his Twitter timeline. I also put it in Slack. And just do an image search of Hayden Winks. I think it's spot on in the face,

Doy Hayden Winks. But what I'm also learning here is that if you Google image Hayden Winks, you're also getting some photos from his high school basketball days. He's on Max Preps. It's just good information. Look at that. Yeah, he's got some height.

He's got some height. Good for Hayden. Okay. Yeah, I thought the interesting stuff from Kellynne Moore was about like the actual functional process of putting in the new playbook and creating this new language. And some of it is existing Eagle stuff. some of it is stuff from Dallas, some of it is stuff from the Chargers. And like he said the most difficult thing,

which he also downplayed as difficult because plays are plays and words are words. But making sure that there is connectivity between all of the language and like the work that goes into making sure that it's not confusing for the guys. Yeah, Tim McMahon has asked that very directly, right? It sounds very complicated.

And he's like, this happens. Great question from Tim the way he asked it. This happens everywhere you go. When he was speaking about how the system is going to be different, He started by saying the focus here as they've gone through the process is they've had a lot of good going on, which I imagine Nick Siriani's watching that up in his office. Yeah, yeah, of course, because as Nick would tell you, or as Nick might want to tell you, they had the best third down percentage in franchise history last year, right? So they've, so yeah, so this is an offense that was number one two years ago. They have really good personnel.

know. But I know motion is a big topic here. And the question came up about motion. And he said that motion kind of fits his background with his father as a high school coach and at Boise State. And Bo and I and Julia are of the generation that like we watched Boise State when they were coming up. And they always had, you know, they were creative. They were head at the time. Right. So do you think that's an apt description of you of you? You are part of the Boise State generation? I mean, from an age perspective, yes? There's Zoomers, there's boomers, and then there's the Boise Staters. I mean, I just, when I think of like Boise State at their heyday,

I vividly recall watching the Fiesta Bowl with Pete Vernon and a bunch of other friends of ours. And, yeah, the Statue of Liberty play, Ian Johnson, scores the touchdown, proposes to his... Was that Jared Zabransky? Jared Zabransky? Yep. Annie and Johnson proposed after scoring, and I thought that was like the smoothest way to propose ever. Yeah, did not.

I wonder if they were still together. You would wonder. That's interesting, don't you think? We're in the middle of a show. You're tweeting out Hayden Wyss. I'm tweeting his photo to it. I got it. Okay.

See, don't you see it? Julia? I think it's, I think that's spot on. Some, I feel like some photos more than others. Some more than others, yeah. And check out that basketball. He's passing the ball. He's standing in the rebound line for a free throw.

Good stuff. I got to tell you, I'm getting a little uncomfortable reading the chat here. Shea's dissecting my handshake. Oh, he did give you a handshake. Shea? He says he thinks Zach was about a 7.5 on the handshake scale. Honestly, I don't remember the handshake. Well, it was also in Denver, so maybe the altitude was affecting his grip.

I will defend Zach here. And it's almost, it's almost too firm of a handshake, I would say. Zach is anybody he meets, he's going in with like an 11 and a half out of 10, going in for the strongest grip you've ever seen, independent of the context. Yeah, shame. My hands were bigger because of, because he had, him, he had the calluses from a spend hold of, your hands are bigger because I, look, I'm short. I get it.

But, yeah, yeah. And you fashion yourself an Eagles historian. I feel like if I was writing a book on Zach's Piccadillo, and all of the interesting character quirks, which I feel like I am able to do. One of the first, I don't know, 20 or so might be your commitment to a firm handshake. Yes, that's very much.

Maybe top 50. I believe very strongly in a firm handshake. That comes from my father. And yeah, I've brought that, you know, handshake, eye contact, smile. Also, the stronger handshake you give, the further you push them away from giving you a hug. No, it's not the, but no, I do prefer the handshake to the hug, right?

A matter of fact, like people, I don't, I was getting like with, with Kelsey at the retirement, I was going in for the handshake, right? Like, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't going in for the hug. I was going in for the handshake. I tried to be very handshake oriented. Now, when I, I, I, I, we're on this topic. When I, when I see someone, like, when I saw Julia for the first time in like X amount of years, I went in for the hug.

I didn't like give you. It'd be weird if I saw Julia for the first time and five years I gave Joy. How the hell are you? Yeah. Like Julia, we've been friends for a long time. It's great to see you again, right? But my point is, is that I don't need to come in. I don't just have you anyway.

Yeah. Anyways, this has gone down a path that, yeah, it doesn't need to go down. Back to Kellyn Moore. The blending of the offense is going to be a big part of it using motion. Now, he says, why do they use motion? Okay? He says that there's times when you do it to gather information on the defense, and there's times you do it simply to stress the defense.

So those are the two elements. You're trying to build packages and create things so that the run and the play action game and the dropback game kind of all look the same. There's alignment and similarities with the presentation. So I thought that was a good answer. It was a good explanation for why they're going to use. motion and I would expect to be a heavy motion team this year, especially relative to what they've been in the past. I agree. I think that's one of the more interesting threads to follow.

I mean, obviously it's going to be more motion, but how motion heavy is it going to be? Yes. Yes, we'll find out. You asked him his perspective on Game Day from a play calling perspective. What were you hoping to achieve? I'm just like, what's the most important thing to you from a play calling perspective? And I thought his answer was interesting. Clean operation.

It was not about like figuring out. out what the what the defense is trying to do and counteracting that. It was just about a clean process, give the quarterback everything he needs in a very quick and understandable way so that he can get to work. And I think that's part of like the, you know, he's a former quarterback in the league. And he said the same thing about pre-snap adjustments. Like you got to trust that guy. He's the one who's seeing everything for real.

Just let him work, give him the tools that he needs and get out of the way. You're right. Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I also think I might be projecting here, but Toulmore's background as a quarterback probably factors into that. And I know there's a lot of coaches who were quarterbacks. What? You must have just been spending the entire time I was talking, reading the comments,

because that's what I just said. No. Said his experience as a quarterback informs that. Yeah, I was about to make a point. Yeah, but you repeated what I said. I saw you read in those comments. No, Bo, Bo. I mean, play it back.

You're just saying what I just said. No, no, no, no. I was adding to that because what I, the point. No, no, no. You're going to listen back and he would like, you know what? He's right. I did miss that one thing. You know what?

I'm not going to do. If you want me to concede, okay, I will concede. What I was trying to get at is that all, a lot of coaches were former quarterbacks. He's been a quarterback at a really high level. Like, he understands, he understands what it's like at the NFL level. He understands the amount of information you're discerning at the line of scrimmage. And to go along with that, if we don't need to litigate, we don't need to.

Well, he was a quarterback in the NFL, and so I think that's part of them. We don't need to litigate that. I actually think one of the interesting things to watch from an offensive perspective this year is going to be whether the center or the quarterback is making the calls at the line of scrimmage. I think very much Jason Kelsey wants to, or I'm sorry, Joan Hertz wants to. Yes. Jason Kelsey's done that in the past. Jason Kelsey's done it really ever since 2000, ever since Howard Mudd came in, really.

So I'm curious to see, does Cam Juergens take that over? Does Jalen Hertz do it? Kellen Moore was vague about that. He said that's kind of worked out during training camp. That's an ongoing process. What do you expect to happen? I think it will be Hertz. I think he is the more experienced person, you know,

analyzing what the defense is showing him beforehand. and Cam Jergins has enough to worry about being a full-time center for the first time in the NFL. I think Cam Jergins has a lot to work out being the full-time first one. It's good. Do you think it will be Juergens? No, I think it's going to be jailing. Yeah. Yeah, I think having, well, I'm curious how Kevin, how Kell and Moore's done that in the past, too.

So that's something we'll find out. Yeah. All right. before we keep going and get to what Michael Clay said and any other leftovers from Kellynne Moore let's talk about our friends at game time and had a chance to go to a go to the Phillies game the other day as we talked about you went yesterday Zach want to hear a little bit more about that but if you also want to go to a Phillies game and maybe want to wait and see if the prices come down when's the best time to jump that's what game

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We're going to go with the whole family. So I had those two tickets. I went to Game Time to find two tickets in the same section. You just search right by the exact same section. Ended up with the two tickets exactly next to the other two tickets I had. And they were very cheap. Worked out very well. Thank you Game Time.

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Again, create an account and release. Dean with code P-H-L-Y for $20 off. Download game time today, last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. I was listening to the show yesterday. I thought you guys did a great job, first off, but the butcher box ad in particular, I just want to clear something up that... Got my box yesterday. Oh, yeah.

I'm eager to hear how you like it. Well, I haven't cooked it again, but got it yesterday. Yeah. I'm allowed to put Montreal steak spice on or steak season on my steak, just Emily doesn't like the Montreal steak seasoning. So if I'm just making the steak for me, then I will put the steak seasoning on. But if it's for her or if it's for both of us, we won't. We'll just do the garlic salt pepper.

That's it. I just want to make that clear. You get yourself two steaks and do one one way and one the other. You could do that too, but yeah, I just want to clear that up. Like I'm allowed to use. You made it sound like I'm forbidden from taking out of the much of steak. Okay. All right.

But we're talking about Butcherbox here. And the reason we're talking about steak seasoning is because you have these great steaks from Butcherbox. They came in the mail a week and a half ago, and I am digging, putting these on the grill. These are high-quality meat. They also have seafood that you can trust. But the beef, it's 100% grass-fed, which is awesome. Free range or organic chicken. The pork, it's raised crate-free.

The seafood, it's caught in the wild, okay? These are humanely raised. There's not antibiotics or added hormones. And the convenience of it is what I really loved. It's delivered right to your doorstep. So I got home from work and it's right there and I didn't have to pay for shipping. It just came. It's free shipping, always.

And they have curated customized box plans. So I wanted the all beef one and that's what I got. It was terrific. They have a variety of high quality cuts at amazing value. And they have exclusive member deals as well. So where can you get in on the action? Go to Butcher Box. If Butcher Box is offering our listeners an amazing offer where new users get free meat plus $20 off your first box.

Join today using our link, Butcherbox.com slash PHLY and use code PHLY to receive this exclusive offer today before time runs out. Mr. Beef. What else did you think was interesting from Kellan Moore? What else on Kellyn Moore? So I think Kellen Moore, and this isn't like a knock on him, but he's kind of like the opposite or the other end of the spectrum from Vic Fangio. He's not giving you specific details. Yeah, Vic Fangio, you ask him a direct question, he gives you a direct answer.

Kellyn Moore, you ask him a direct question, he gives you, you know, the stock answer, you will. Right? And that's probably like the offensive coach compared to the old school defensive coach, perhaps. but what else came from him you know Jalen Hurts he talked about kind of Jeline Hertz is the unique skill set that he has I I don't want to suggest that like this is the first time he's been exposed to a mobile quarterback because Dak Prescott can move very well now he had that's got coming off an injury at one point sure right but it doesn't move like Jalen Hertz moves doesn't move like Jalen that's that's that's true but when Nick Siriani came in like

other than, you know, Nick Seriani and Shane Sikin really didn't have a quarterback with that, with that type of mobility. I mean, they spend most of their time with Phil Rivers. You know, Andrew Luck could move, but I think by that point, he was moving a little less. So, yeah, it is pronounced, though. He does want to lean in to that aspect of it. He tried to downplay, like, how much this is going to be his offense. Like we said, he really kind of talked about the blending of it.

You have some, I always like your questions to kind of push into the personality of the guy. You ask him about coming from Dallas and the background. How much like in the building are people just every now. I feel like Howie would be the one who would be giving him crap around the building for being a Cowboys guy or something.

But he just said, you know, it's weird being from the division. Sure. He talked about the interview last year that he had or two years ago, three years ago now. Yeah. And he mentioned how that really exposed him to the people in the building and it was a place that he would want to work and, you know, knowing Howie and knowing Jeffrey Lurie.

Answer that one twice. Answer that one twice. It was so good. He got that twice. Yeah. And then he was asked about last season and the offense growing stale and he said he wasn't around. He's focused on 2024.

Yeah, that's not to answer that one. All right. How about Michael Clay? You were looking forward to talking to him about the new kickoff rules. Yeah, eager to hear from from Michael Clay. And he said this is new for everybody, right? They're all trying to figure it out. and you asked him a good question too.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'll give his answer. He says, like, you don't want to over complicate it because you can come out trying to be real innovative from the beginning. And then you get caught up in penalties and it's actually a detriment. It was an interesting answer. I asked him, like, there were a lot of questions about it, but I wanted to know just from his perspective, when this rule comes down, are you more like excited about, oh, this is an opportunity to put on some new stuff in the return game that maybe we can spring something or are you more worried about from a coverage standpoint oh they're going to be throwing a bunch of stuff at us we got to be prepared for it and he said when it's so new like this you just have to get

the basics right and you have to it's about educating the players on like what the rules are and it's a new play that means there's going to be new penalties which i hadn't really thought about it in quite that way and so you know we got to get the basics right and then once we get that stuff and then maybe we can get sort of fancy yeah i found an interesting that he said you have to get the basic right and then you can get sort of fancy That time I did it on purpose, yes. As opposed to the second time when you also did it on purpose, you're going back to the well in the same job?

If I could get a laugh out of Julia, it's worth doing, right? So, yeah, no, I thought that was a good answer because that was not what I expected. You know, I thought you would try to be innovative, but that was a good perspective. I asked how kick returners are going to be different, like the type of a returner, because that's something that I heard coming out of the owner's meetings was that the style of return is more comparable. to a punt now maybe than like a kickoff return or it's more like a running play yes yeah um so it's more like you would want a traditional running back back there okay yeah uh that that there's there's not as much space to navigate in right kickoff returns in the past you usually had a little

more space right i think you would you would in in theory you would want a bigger body it would make it like you brit and covey might not not be the kind of guy you would want you you would want someone to break tackles right more okay yeah that makes sense um and he said that that that remains to be seen. And that's why you want to have different types of returners. And he kind of said, like last year, they didn't have different types of returners. They basically had like Zach McPherson catching punts when that's not what he does because they didn't have other options besides Covey. And this year they have a bunch. But naturally, I asked if Britten Covey still his top guy. And he said they feel very fortunate to have Covey on this team because Covey, he was obviously

really productive last year. They like Covey. Now, the thing with Covey, because when he was asked about adding returners this year, he says it's always good to have returners at this time of year. It's different when you get down from 90 to 53. And I think Covey, it's going to be more of a question of, does he have function as a receiver? Because you have guys such as Cooper DeGene, Ania Smith, Will Shipley, who are going to be on the roster for offense and defense.

And do they, do you use a roster spot? on a return-only guy. Now, that said, I think Britt and Covey should be on the roster. I think Britton Covey was really productive as a returner, and I think he's earned his spot on the team. But there could be, you know, these are the kinds of conversations that they're going to have in August about what the 53 looks like.

Yeah, I actually think that Britain Covey's roster demise is overstated. Okay. I think, like, he was very good as a punt returner last year, even though they have other guys who can do it. that's kind of a big risk to take. Like, I don't think they want Cooper DeGine to be their starting punt returner either. And I think his roster spot is, I would go over 50 turkeys on him making the week one roster. I think it's a little safer than some people might think.

Me too. I agree. I was actually, Covey's appearing tonight in Jenkins Town, and I was hoping to get out there, take read to meet Britain. but I don't know if I'm going to be able to make that work anymore. But always enjoy Britain. A great guest on the show. You guys have a good handshake. Yeah, Britain has a good handshake.

That's true. You know what I was thinking about as I was sitting there that hadn't really occurred to me from a Michael Clay perspective? We did talk about that for the first time, they added some free agents who have some special teams ability for him in Zach Bond and Orrin Brooks. But the way that the draft played out where it was defense early and day three was mostly all offense, except for Jeremiah Trotter Jr. Like they didn't get the stockpile of rookie contributors on coverage units that they might

get in a normal year for him. It's going to be, it's going to be, I mean, there are a lot of guys who were on the roster last year. You know, he called out Josh Job and Ben Van Sumer and still here. There are still young guys there. But the makeup of that group might be just a tick older than it has been for him over the past couple of years. I think Cooper DeGene's going to have a big role in special teams, like even as a gunner.

I can say J.O.X. Hunt if he's active, having a role in special teams. You know, when I would, now, kickoffs are different, obviously. But I think back to when I was covering the Giants in 2010, and Jason P.R. Paul was like a freight train on special teams. And I remember the special teams coordinator then Quinn, Bob Quinn, I think it was. I hope I'm not screwing that up. Robert Quinn. No. But the coordinator's last name was Quinn, Bob Quinn, I believe. and he was basically saying that like this peer paul just that that type of body type and that type of athleticism just running down the field

um like freely he commanded double teams every time now i'm not saying jowx hunt uh is josephi or paul but i think that's an interesting body type for special teams as well okay uh how was the game yesterday a tough game for the phillies uh great time with with with with read uh thank you to Vince he's not here but Vince uh Vince was so generous in providing tickets and now I'll say I say this loving I mean it's nice to see you back at work after you know absconding yesterday I think I could have done the show and then gone to the game from there and just I mean it was Vince's but Vince was the fault is what you were about to say this is fault was on your but Emily what it was saying it seems like you really want to do the show today

And I was like, it's a great show. We got Keegan. We got Baldinger. Like, this is a fun show. You got Keegan on. That was your, this is a fun show. Yeah. And I was listening to it.

And I just wonder, like, what kind of example you're setting for the younger generation when you take off a Wednesday in the middle of the work day and the middle of the work week. Like, you know. Well, quite literally, Reid doesn't understand your sense of humor. So at the top of the show, which was, I listened to it in the car. We were driving, we got to the game at like 1220. Okay. So from 12 to 12. 18. I actually texted you guys, like is, is Keegan running late. But the top of the show,

you were talking about how I'm not there. And, and, and, and read, like, dad, that's not nice. They're making fun of you. Yeah. And I was like, no, it's, it's a joke. But, um, we had these amazing seats. We're so lucky to have these seats. But when you're six years old, going on the seat, he's going to be seven next month. And he loves the Phillies. Like, he's wearing Philly shirts every day. He knows the score of every night's game. But the only thing you like more than watching baseball at that age is what? Playing baseball. Okay.

And so they have the yard. Are you familiar with the yard? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And so in like the fourth inning, Reid wanted to go to the yard. And so we go and I'm thinking this is going to be like a one inning thing. Oh, yeah. But then you're there. You're like catching, you know, fly balls. Sure. Like in recess when you're playing 500. And he's having the time of his life there and he's like at that point you know this is a low scoring game it's it's the he just wants to

catch the five balls and i'm like re we got these amazing seats like how often are you sitting you know first level like 16th row or 14th row 14th row 14th row 14th or 15th row and uh and he was he was he was like just one more running dad one morning dad and i'm like this is his day so we're we're we're going to do it but he was he was he like worked up the biggest sweat like more than, you know, more than anyone on the field. That's funny. You know, he, he comes to me after like three innings of shagging flies with his bare hands there.

And, uh, and, uh, he says to you, see, dad, this is what it looks like to work. All right. I don't appreciate that, especially because, especially because I, I got home and I was transcribing and I was transcribing late into the night last night. Okay. Uh, I wanted to put up a Johnny Wilson story today. Uh, that was going to be delayed a bit. Um.

But, yeah, I would have been fine coming. Like, I didn't ask office today. Of course. This is the last thing in the world you need to be defensive about. Nobody works harder than you. Okay. It would be like if I was teasing you, but you don't wear vests enough. Okay.

I didn't wear my vest for the show, but okay. Yeah. So, Claire says, stop taking them seriously, Ziba. You should know better. I mean, this is the very last thing in the world for you to ever take seriously. Yeah, I saw a tweet someone had when Jamie said he was coming on the show. Even when you're not working, you're working. When Jamie said he was coming on the show.

And it's like, it's like Jamie, you're going to be both punching bag. You just got to get used to it. I'm like, Jamie can hold us. I mean, Jamie did post game shows all year. You're a little lighter on the other guys than me. Jamie and Rich. I don't have the earned. Yeah.

You got to earn it. Okay. You're the only tease the ones you love. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Super chats. Super chat. Super chat.

Can you tell us how many times Kellan Moore said the word process, Zach? You can literally do that, actually. You can search the transcript and tell us how many times. Exactly how many times he said process. Let's see. His fifth word was process. Then his second sentence was process.

So it looks like 32 times was process. Included in the questions. Included in the questions, yes. Over the course of the, yeah. That's a lot of process. Let's see. There were four process. in the questions. So that's 28 processes in the answers.

Well, that's a lot of process. Hank you be proud. Yeah. Last thing before we go, I know. Wait, no, there's three more here. Those are not super chats. Oh, it's not. She starred those. Oh, okay. Gotcha. It's okay. He can't read. Yeah. The last thing I want to ask you about Zach. Yes.

We were over a little bit now, but that's okay because we got a fun show tomorrow. I have not listened to all of the Deshawn Jackson LaShawn McCoy, Chip Kelly podcast. Yeah, I did. I'm about 60% of the way through. I was listening to it before the show. But I thought there were some interesting nuggets in there. What is your general takeaway on that conversation?

It was awesome. I mean, I wish I could have had that. I wish I could have heard that in 2014. It could have helped inform, or in 2015, for LaShaan, it could have helped inform my coverage. I mean, I've been trying to tell you some of those things for a long time, but that's okay. No, I mean, directly from there. I know that.

Yeah. I mean, like, I've heard this stuff. too, okay? I think some of the stuff was, was, uh, was pretty damning for, for, for Chip. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like the, the Rock Carmichael anecdote,

um, that, that's just wrong. In my opinion, for those of you who haven't read it, this is if Chip Kelly calls Rock Carmichael into the office. And according to LaShaught McCoy, asks him,

tells him he needs to be more presentable and needs to have a haircut more like shady as opposed to his, which was a little bit more grown out. Yeah. So, yes. So now some of the stuff like Deshawn took, took umbrage to Chip Kelly saying on the first day that there's no starters and everyone has to kind of earn their role. Like that's just what new coaches do.

Yeah, that's more about the message to the team as opposed to star players, right? So, yeah, look, I understand there's multiple sides of every story. I get that. But when you hear Lashon, you hear Deshawn, those are two high profile guys. And of course, like they were both jettisoned. chip so there there are not um it's like when when my when my grandmother tells me i'm handsome right like she's she's not an objective narrator okay but uh at the same time like lashan and deshawn their view on this is firsthand and it's completely valid because it's it's like their experience

and then they get jason peters on the phone and like jason peters they're going there yet but yeah okay his his experience it like like these these are these are all valid so I don't think anything's black and white. I mean, there's, there's nuance to a lot, but there's stuff that was brought up there that is very concerning. And that shows you why Jeffrey Lurie fired Chip after three, you know, in the middle of his third season, after 210 win years, because there were stuff in there that clearly was,

was not going to cut it. And there was a way of treating players that, that that that that that's very important i mean it's funny like jeff mail catches such a stray there just get that part that was very funny yeah um so some of the stuff and then there's there's stuff that like i got to stop like fact checking as i'd listen to it they they kept saying germy mackle deshawn kept saying germy macklin uh you know he had two touchdowns in the raiders game he was hurt that year in the saints game he got targeted he was hurt that year like he he did not play in that But there's also stuff there that, you know, Jeremy McEwen gets, or I'm sorry, Deshawn Jackson, you know, doesn't go to the exit meeting with Chip Kelly that year.

I haven't gotten to the part yet about the gang allegations, but I'm eager to hear that. And yeah, I definitely think those two guys are reliable or they are, like, their words are valid. This was, they were two of the high pro, they were the two most high profile players. who were sent packing. I mean, Nick Foles and Evan Mathis were in there, too. But the Sean Jackson cut was a major turning point there. The LaShaq, the little Sean McCoy trade was a major turning point there. And I've been on record saying this and I stand by this.

I thought Chip as a coach, like as a, you know, putting the offense together was innovative, was clearly successful for those first two years. I thought he did a really bad job with personnel. And I think that he inherited a team that was talented. But I also like I hear people say the Chip Kelly the Chip Kelly tenure like set the Eagles back. They won a Super Bowl two years later. And they want it in part with guys who like Chip advocated to bring in like Malcolm Jenkins. You know, so.

Yeah, I mean I would say if you parse that roster from Chip influence, I think it would be pretty low. I mean Jeff Stoutland, right? You can go like there's there's honestly Jeff Stowland is probably his best. his biggest legacy. Yeah. But positively. And also, like, not for nothing, but the coaching staff and Nick Foles would tell you, there were things that were implemented in the Eagles offense in 2017 that came from Chip's system.

Sure. And Deshawn Jackson talked about some of the players, like, you know, they... He had the best season of his career. Right. Like, LaShawn and Deshawn both had the best seasons of their career in that offense. 2013 was the best for both of them. But coaching is not just what you do on. Sundays. There's interpersonal parts to this. And clearly that was an issue. And there's, so the

GM part of the personnel control of it, I don't think he did well with. And clearly the interpersonal part of it, he did not do well with. And so it's not enough that you put your team in position to go 10 and 6 and 10 to 6 and back to back years. It's how you treat the people in the locker room, how the locker room feels about the leadership structure in place. And then also the, the, team you put together. And I've said this in the past. Like, Howie Roseman, I think, is a really skilled football executive. And the shame that I saw in this is that I actually think Howie, if Chip embraced Howie, then I think their skill sets could have complemented each other, right?

Because I think Chip could take the personnel that he had and found a way to maximize it, which he did in 2013. And actually, he didn't have much of an imprint on like the 2013 roster. a lot of it was inherited, right? You couldn't go through it. I'm sorry, by 2015, he got rid of a lot of these guys. And I think it was almost like the system was the star

and not the players were the star. And I will always be players over anything else. Like players over scheme, players over culture. Like players, players, players win. And I don't think they recognize that enough. Yeah, I think it, it, it, the way that they talk about it, It's unfortunate that it is like Chip Kelly turned into be such a caricature of the fear of hiring a quote unquote college coach, right? Like you've got these guys in their young 20s who are professionals and who are being paid more than you are.

And it's not the power imbalance that you might have had in college that you are used to. And so for you to say you're going to be monitoring their, you know, they're joking about like you're going to be monitoring Jason Peters's like sleep habits and like urine. like that's not going to happen um and some of that stuff and like the telling shady to wear the different colored socks and the rock harmico thing like that stuff is it's just not going to fly but also the and they talk about like the the uncomfortability he had with black people from their perspective that's that's that's their perspective right but also regardless of race like his uh uncomfort his own uncomfort with having direct conversations with guys like that's not great um so like a lot of the interpersonal stuff.

Yeah. It was definitely true. And the one thing that Shady brings up, which, you know, I remember very vividly was, you know, the Riley Cooper thing, he handled that so poorly. Yeah. And Shady talks about it. Like he makes Riley Cooper get up in front of the team, apologize, and then sends him away for a week. And then he doesn't want to deal with it when they come back. Like he doesn't want Jason Peters talking to him about it. And by the way, when he sent him away, it wasn't like he went to some like re-education place to like, you know, learn a little bit more about his biases and all these things. He just went home to his parents' house in Florida for a week.

It was like a vacation. And I remember working in the building at the time, like this is ridiculous. What is going on? And then, of course, you know, makes it through the season. They signed him to a, you know, short signed contract.

But, I mean, imagine being a young black player in that locker room and going through that and already feeling some kind of way about Chip Kelly. like, yeah, you probably would not like that person. Yeah, I would say any player, right? Like you, because this is the point I made then, and I feel even stronger about it now.

New coaches, almost by definition, have a certain amount of equity. And, like, Chip used his equity on Riley Cooper. And I said then, like, is this where you want to, like, use your equity? And I thought that if, I think the comparison was made, at the time that he gave like Lageripa on a second chance in his first game as Oregon's coach and that worked that well. I think they were two totally different things because like this is how the other players

in the locker room felt. Well, it was interesting the way Shady talked about it. And I remember this being the thing at the time because Shady and Raleigh Cooper were friends. Like they got along. And so Shady was like, I didn't think that he was a racist. I wanted to have this conversation with him. And then we have the meeting and he leaves. I don't get to even talk to him.

And then like we're not supposed to talk about it after that. Like, that's not healthy. Yeah. Now that I agree. So that's where I think the interpersonal part, definitely. I am with you there. The one thing I will, I don't want to say push back on, but when you talked about like the sleep monitoring and the hydration monitoring, I will say to a certain extent,

that's an example of the first person through the wall always gets hurt in the sense that a lot of that stuff happens now and like players embrace it. you know there's there's much more sophistication and this is where like the nuance to like Deshaun goes into the office and says I'm not doing this and Chip it's like well this is in service of getting you yeah like that's true and there is probably there's probably just a better way to do it yeah like there's

there's much more sophistication like I vividly remember you know there was a time to Marco Murray wasn't practicing because of his load levels okay and that's and and and Malcolm Jenkins comes over and he grabs a chair from the press conference area and he gives it to DeMarco and he's like he might as well just sit down then like because at the time it was like why is this guy not not practicing on the second day of training camp now you fast forward to 2023

the Eagles don't have practice the day after their first day of training camp like there are things in terms of hydration things in terms of sleep things in terms of you know you think back to the cafeteria uh when you when you were there like fast food Fridays and I'm not in the cafeteria anymore but but now that's the there's there's like color coordination for everything like don't eat this eat this have a certain amount of this so it might be like the requirement of it might be a little much but i also think that some of that stuff it was done in the service of the players and the eagles were a little ahead of their time and actually i i mean i've spoken to geofford lorry about this there there are things that the eagles still use now that were brought forth um by chip kelly that they weren't using back then um but

the interpersonal stuff and the player personnel stuff, uh, that those are strikes against the Mona's resume for sure. Big flex on I've spoken to Jeffrey Larry about this. I mean, you have to. No big deal. Did you catch by the way, uh, I still have not all the way finished the Brady roast,

but, uh, I did catch the pineapple conversation that was a little bit of an overlap with our show. I missed that one. Did you? Yeah. Okay. I'll listen back. I couldn't believe how bad Ben,

Affleck was. I had tuned out by that point. I think there was a game on that night. It's like the worst one of them all. Yeah, there was a game on that night and I changed a channel. But yeah, I heard, I heard that. I actually thought like, I have two other takeaways. Go ahead. So I don't understand why they had the celebrity and the comedian roosters. I thought the football people were, were funny enough. Oh, I disagree. I think a lot of, like, I don't know why Kim Kardashian had to go up there. Well, yeah. I mean, they're pulling out the stops. You get the A-list people. That's great. But I mean, I think the actual comedians were the best ones. for the most part

and that makes it much better but I do like Kevin Hart like he's so proud of Bill Belichick for doing it give me a break like we don't have to like give the guy a handshake for doing it like all these other people are doing it it's not that big of a deal

and then like why are all these people so protective and thankful for Robert Kraft who cares why is he any different we can't make a joke about him why is he any different than anybody else on the stage it's ridiculous apparently I saw this today I forget who said it

I apologize but they were like explicitly told before no jokes about the massage yeah yeah with with rapper crap of course which strikes me as I mean like why is that the thing that's like Aaron Hernandez insane Aaron Hernandez and you know we can't possibly

offend the billionaire and and well I mean like the Giselle there was stuff there about like his his marriage and his kids that the aren't Hernandez stuff was a little aggressive. I would think that

the yeah so that's the bridge too far. That's like Brett Selwickburg 87. Yeah, exactly. Very bizarre. All right. Anyway, we're waiting for time.

Nice long show. That'll do it for this episode of the P.H.L.Y. Eagles podcast. Thank you to Julia for sticking around with us. Thanks to everybody who watched live. We will be back tomorrow at 1.30 with the professor and one of his students.

I'll look forward to that. for all of us here at P-H-L-Y for Zach. I'm Bo. We will talk to you tomorrow. And as always, we love you. You're all silly like the mayor.